#linuxcnc | Logs for 2014-08-01

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[00:01:24] <ssi> I thought I read the 7i76 had flyback diodes on the outputs
[00:01:58] <Tom_itx> PCW you lookin for a place for stencils?
[00:02:27] <ssi> The output driver chips used on the 7I76 have built in Zener diode clamps to clamp inductive turn-off (fly-back) spikes. This means that flyback diodes are not normally required on inductive loads. If high current inductive loads are switched at high frequencies, they should have flyback diodes to limit power dissipation the in 7I76's driver chips
[00:02:33] <ssi> might just be too big a load, and killed the driver
[00:03:23] <cpresser> ssi: maybe you just killed the zeners, creating a 'pullup'
[00:04:22] <PCW> Yeah we killed some driving tiny step motors for things like solenoids a flyback diode is needed (I will add that to the manual)
[00:04:50] <humble_sea_bass> wertgwsefrg
[00:04:58] <humble_sea_bass> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a8B066ZeCPA
[00:05:08] <PCW> the zeners are not used directly but connect to the MOSFET gates
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[00:05:39] <PCW> ssi should I send you a NCV7608?
[00:06:45] <ssi> if you'd like... if you do, can you send me a pair of bus drivers from the 5i25 too if they're not too expensive? I'd like to see if that fixes the one I killed with plasma torch voltage :)
[00:07:15] <ssi> the card works, just some of the inputs don't change states
[00:07:36] <ssi> inputs and outputs I should say
[00:08:19] * ssi is adept at murdering mesa hardware
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[00:18:45] <PCW> It may just be the bus switch
[00:18:56] <ssi> yea bus switch, that's what I meant to say :)
[00:19:00] <ssi> that's what I suspect it is
[00:19:06] <ssi> i imagine if it's not the bus switch, it's the fpga
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[00:19:14] <PCW> let me send myself a email so I dont forget
[00:19:35] <PCW> Yep but often its just the bus switches
[00:19:46] <ssi> yeah, that would make the most sense
[00:19:54] <ssi> it's the first line of defense against rogue 300V pulses :)
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[00:21:09] <PCW> could have wiped the 5I25 and the PC
[00:22:20] <ssi> yes, I clearly like to live dangerously
[00:26:02] <PCW> no more laser burns?
[00:26:03] <PCW> bbl dinner time
[00:27:08] <ssi> no I've managed to keep my flesh out of the beam :D
[00:28:33] <PCW> :-)
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[00:41:03] <XXCoder1> ssi: hows your laser cnc and also how is your remaining eye? ;)
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[00:52:55] <ssi> so far so good
[00:54:09] <ssi> http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/chi-ebola-virus-outbreak-20140730,0,3053792.story
[00:54:14] <ssi> oh great, by all means, bring the guy HERE
[00:54:36] <jdh> you need to work on laser isotope separation.
[00:54:57] <ssi> put it on the list, right after raster engraving
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[01:42:49] <CaptHindsight> stinking TB6560 drive lasted 2 weeks, kept cool as a cucumber and at 50% of it's rated max load
[01:44:34] <jdh> were you thinking "this will be the one 6560 that lasts... I can feel it"
[01:45:03] <CaptHindsight> http://www.sainsmart.com/cnc-router-single-1-axis-tb6560-3-5a-stepper-stepping-motor-driver-board.html
[01:45:36] <CaptHindsight> noisiest drive I've ever heard
[01:47:09] <jdh> it whined?
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[01:47:34] <CaptHindsight> usually a 72 hr burn in takes out the infants, but this lasted just long enough to be annoying
[01:47:34] <jdh> whatever drives came with my 6040 seem to be fine.
[01:49:30] <CaptHindsight> http://www.automationtechnologiesinc.com/products-page/kl-stepper-drivers/kl-4030-24-40vdc-3-0a-microstepping-driver and I thought these were scraping the bottom of the barrel
[01:50:28] <CaptHindsight> jdh: are they Leadshine drives that came with your 6040?
[01:50:36] <ssi> i've run some of those 4030s for years with no issues
[01:52:51] <CaptHindsight> that pick-n-place project is going to use even worse drives
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[02:02:14] <jdh> I didn't open them up. They look like leadshine boxes though
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[02:19:07] <ssi> so the software stepgen module has a function called "capture-position" that can be bound to a fast thread to have fast feedback of the position
[02:19:26] <ssi> the example of raster engraving I'm looking at uses it to have better-than-servo-thread precision on the X position
[02:19:34] <ssi> does the hm2 stepgen have any similar capability?
[02:20:02] <ssi> hm2 has stepgen.position-fb pin, but is it updated at high speed, or only on the servo-thread updates?
[02:31:06] <ssi> based on the code, I'm gonna say it only gets updated on servo-thread updates
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[02:55:02] <asah> hey, anyone have any experience with fanuc motors? specifically the series 5 ones with the Cn1 Cn2, etc commutation setup?
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[03:03:53] <pcw_home> Does the bldc components 'f' tag work?
[03:04:48] <asah> haven’t gotten that far. trying to hook up the commutation pins to a 7i70 but not getting any output
[03:05:10] <asah> probably cause they are only 5v ttl? not sure what I should be getting out of them levelwise.
[03:05:17] <asah> hence my question
[03:05:55] <asah> but now, my 5i23 is barfing “failed to reset fpga, aborting hm2_register
[03:06:03] <asah> worked yesterday...
[03:07:32] <asah> DONE status bit dindicates busy at start of programming
[03:08:13] <pcw_home> Not a good sign but maybe clean contact fingers (and try with I/O disconnected)
[03:08:49] <pcw_home> sometimes a corrupted EEPROM can cause this also
[03:10:07] <asah> reboot fixed it...
[03:10:48] <asah> rather, power cycle did.
[03:11:11] <asah> now back to commutation.
[03:11:29] <asah> I can read analog levels of fof the 7i70 right?
[03:12:00] <pcw_home> you can the on a couple pins I think
[03:12:29] <asah> what is my best bet to get digi in like this if it is at 5 v?
[03:13:05] <pcw_home> lower the field voltage
[03:13:21] <asah> I have an 8i20 and a 7i70 and a quadrature board (6 channel)
[03:13:22] <pcw_home> (or use a 7I69 or 7I90)
[03:13:42] <asah> field voltage says 8 volt min.
[03:13:48] <asah> can I go down to 5?
[03:14:38] <pcw_home> _maybe_ we updated most to run at 5 you will have to check (and split VIN/VFIELD)
[03:15:26] <pcw_home> You can also use spare encoder inputs (in TTL mode) as long as you are running 2.6/master
[03:16:13] <pcw_home> (2.6 and master added the ability to read the A/B/I pins as bits)
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[03:17:36] <pcw_home> VIN is 8V min VFIELD may work at 5V
[03:17:41] <asah> ah, ok. that gives some options. though I am going to be using all 6 of my encoder hannels.
[03:18:39] <pcw_home> you can use bare FPGA pins if you are feeling lucky :-)
[03:19:22] <asah> =) oh yeah… sounds like fun!
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[03:20:41] <asah> mayhap I don’t care that much about commutation.
[03:20:46] <asah> I do have an encoder after all.
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[03:41:11] <pcw_home> Yeah if you dont mind a litel motion at the start you can use the QI mode
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[03:45:43] <ssi> haha as I feared, this is a nightmare to troubleshoot :)
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[04:03:49] <XXCoder2> ssi: what problem?
[04:04:00] <ssi> trying to get raster engraving working
[04:04:15] <XXCoder2> linuxcnc im pretty sure
[04:04:22] <ssi> wat
[04:04:39] <XXCoder2> if I recall linuxcnc has built in support for raster?
[04:04:54] <XXCoder2> I guess you meant something like cam package?
[04:04:59] <ssi> no
[04:06:13] <XXCoder2> lol ok
[04:06:57] <seltecc> is with "STEPGEN_MAXACCEL = " in the inf file steps per revolution meant ...?
[04:08:30] <seltecc> if not , then what is "steps per revolution" in the ini?
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[04:10:06] <XXCoder2> holy fuking shit
[04:10:07] <XXCoder2> http://www.wired.co.uk/news/archive/2014-07/31/nasa-validates-impossible-space-drive
[04:10:25] <XXCoder2> so we has reactionless drive
[04:15:27] <ssi> holy shit it's working
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[04:18:46] <PetefromTn> well I cheaped out damnit....
[04:19:07] <XXCoder2> ssi your machine or reactionless drive
[04:19:10] <XXCoder2> pete on?
[04:19:14] <PetefromTn> you'd think I would know better by now.
[04:20:30] <PetefromTn> I bought a 3/4 inch diameter champfer bit at home depot instead of buying a quality MA Ford multi flute online
[04:20:53] <PetefromTn> got home and tried it. WHAT A PIECE OF SHIT!
[04:21:26] <PetefromTn> I did not think it was possible to make a surface finish that bad so quickly
[04:21:36] <ssi> XXCoder2: my machine
[04:21:54] <ssi> PetefromTn: good tools only cost once :)
[04:21:56] <XXCoder2> ahh way to go! what was problem?
[04:22:15] <ssi> XXCoder2: it was expecting absolute position, but the position i was giving it was current coordinate system
[04:22:16] <PetefromTn> ain't it the truth.....
[04:22:26] <XXCoder2> doh
[04:22:57] <PetefromTn> this thing chatters almost immediately and it does not seem to matter the speed
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[04:23:21] <toastydeath> not enough rake?
[04:23:26] <toastydeath> too little clearance?
[04:23:44] <toastydeath> pic of the tool?>
[04:23:45] <PetefromTn> compared to my other MA Ford champfer bits it is like trying to carve a Turkey with a chainsaw.
[04:24:05] <PetefromTn> just makes a huge mess.
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[04:24:47] <PetefromTn> thankfully I just went a little deep and once I get the proper tool in here I can finish the hole to depth with a hopefully nice surface finish.
[04:25:28] <PetefromTn> I dunno it was the only large diameter multi flute cutter they sold
[04:26:02] <toastydeath> i like using center drills as chamfer tools
[04:26:12] <toastydeath> or countersinks
[04:26:20] <PetefromTn> it was only like ten bucks but it is not even suitable for wood the way it works...just junk.
[04:26:37] <toastydeath> unless you're cutting a big ol chamfer
[04:26:46] <toastydeath> if it's like .040" or under
[04:26:58] <toastydeath> a stub drill/countersink will work just fine
[04:27:08] <PetefromTn> yeah but I need a 90 degree and my center drills and spot drills are all smaller diameter than the 3/4 I need here.
[04:28:03] <toastydeath> why do you need 3/4
[04:28:11] <PetefromTn> I need to countersink some 3/8-16 flat head socket bolts flush and the head is just slightly under. 75
[04:28:18] <toastydeath> http://www.victornet.com/subdepartments/Spotting-and-Centering-Drills/1733.html
[04:28:19] <toastydeath> 16 bux
[04:29:19] <PetefromTn> damn that is a good price man. have you used those? do they cut nice?
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[04:32:56] <toastydeath> no, but that's pretty much the standard design for a spotting drill
[04:33:03] <toastydeath> i've used ones that look exactly like it
[04:33:05] <PetefromTn> I was gonna do these with my drill press so was looking for a 1/2 inch shank
[04:33:53] <toastydeath> if you're trying to actually chamfer a hole, you can use a square boring bar in a boring head
[04:34:02] <toastydeath> (if you have one)
[04:34:16] <PetefromTn> yeah I know that is what I use just smaller in the cnc
[04:34:44] <PetefromTn> huh?
[04:35:17] <toastydeath> ?
[04:35:20] <toastydeath> huh to what
[04:35:36] <PetefromTn> square boring bar?
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[04:35:54] <toastydeath> if you have either a brazed boring bar or an insert set at 45 degrees
[04:36:19] <PetefromTn> oh
[04:36:28] <toastydeath> makes manually chamfering large holes easy
[04:36:40] <toastydeath> and you don't really need a boring bar, even a flycutter head will do
[04:38:23] <PetefromTn> honestly I probably just need to program the cut on the cnc and use the smaller bit bit I am trying to setup this part prototype in case they decide they want me to make a bunch of them crossing fingers LOL.
[04:39:09] <PetefromTn> this thing is done except for the damn long champfers here
[04:39:25] <toastydeath> lol
[04:39:48] <toastydeath> plus setting up a chamfer is super easy, just use cutter comp
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[04:40:48] <PetefromTn> tomorrow I am hopefully going to be able to borrow the correct tool from a friend after he gets off work and finished the prototype. Then if I get orders for it I will probably buy a set of new Ford bits.
[04:41:07] <PetefromTn> yeah I know done it a bunch...
[04:42:35] <PetefromTn> assembled the prototype this afternoon after Machining the standoffs it is looking pretty good so far. I will post some photos once I get It completed if you guys wanna see it.
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[04:44:22] <toastydeath> cool, sure thing
[04:45:53] <PetefromTn> It's not a Saturn 5 rocket but it is nice tho LOL.
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[04:46:36] <PetefromTn> what else is going on around here tonight anyone making anything interesting?
[04:47:26] <toastydeath> not much
[04:47:35] <toastydeath> I went on a date and got food poisioning
[04:47:44] <toastydeath> which didn't matter to the date because I was supposed to leave to go to a funeral anyway
[04:47:57] <PetefromTn> wow jeez that sounds like a real good time hehe
[04:47:57] <toastydeath> making exactly zero things
[04:47:58] <XXCoder2> made 73 holder plates at work lol
[04:48:27] <PetefromTn> hold what?
[04:48:41] <XXCoder2> its small part but its steel so its VERY slow cut so I sat doing nothing 3 minutes. other 2 minutes Im either swapping parts or processing cut part.
[04:48:48] <XXCoder2> no idea. ask boein
[04:49:25] <PetefromTn> what kinda Steel?
[04:50:00] <XXCoder2> dunno but damn it took 4 minutes to trim border around it. would say total of 4 inches travel?
[04:50:06] <XXCoder2> 5 closer maybe
[04:52:04] <toastydeath> lol wast
[04:52:06] <toastydeath> *wat
[04:52:26] <XXCoder2> wat indeed. no idea why its so slow.
[04:52:41] <toastydeath> is it work hardening
[04:52:47] <XXCoder2> I guess its VERY hard steel
[04:53:01] <XXCoder2> maybe for very secure apoplicaions dunno it just says "holding"
[04:53:05] <PetefromTn> I am working on another drawing design for another air rifle part now. started it yesterday but still needs more work. Got some more 6061 from my supplier this afternoon to make them.
[04:53:07] <XXCoder2> as part discription
[04:53:32] <XXCoder2> its just 1 mm thick too
[04:53:36] <ssi> PetefromTn: I got PPI mode and raster engraving mode working on the laser
[04:53:45] <ssi> now I just have to figure out wtf to MAKE with the damn thing
[04:53:59] <XXCoder2> make me a cnc lol
[04:54:05] <PetefromTn> ssi WONDERFUL MAN...err whaddahell does that mean?
[04:54:12] <XXCoder2> framework of one anyway lol
[04:54:24] <ssi> means good things
[04:54:42] <PetefromTn> well......GOOD!!
[04:55:25] <toastydeath> XXCoder2, what sfm are you running and what feed per tooth?
[04:55:25] <PetefromTn> have you shot the neighbors dog with that thingy thru the wall yet?
[04:55:39] <XXCoder2> sfm thats new to me
[04:55:50] <toastydeath> surface speed?
[04:55:54] <PetefromTn> surface feet per minute
[04:56:00] <XXCoder2> ahh 4 minutes 5 inches
[04:56:04] <toastydeath> no no
[04:56:12] <toastydeath> sfm is how fast the periphery of the cutter is moving
[04:56:17] <XXCoder2> ohhh
[04:56:28] <XXCoder2> dunno didnt read that
[04:56:34] <toastydeath> rpm * 3.82 / diameter
[04:56:38] <XXCoder2> I left it at default 100%
[04:56:46] <toastydeath> oh
[04:56:49] <toastydeath> you're just running a file?
[04:57:02] <XXCoder2> more or less. if I get internship I'll learn more
[04:57:28] <XXCoder2> running vm10 hussad cnc? think got name wrong
[04:57:41] <toastydeath> oh
[04:57:44] <toastydeath> that's still weird as fuck
[04:57:49] <XXCoder2> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vOP9yxx_7f0
[04:57:52] <toastydeath> like, running steel THAT slow usually makes it work harden
[04:58:15] <PetefromTn> or Burns up cutters
[04:58:23] <XXCoder2> damn that one looks MUCH more white lol one I use is tan
[04:58:37] <XXCoder2> it might be, part size barely change at all
[04:58:54] <XXCoder2> and it adds little bit of camfer
[04:58:55] <toastydeath> like you have to have a minimum depth of cut per tooth or the shit will get hard and you have to run the tool much slower
[04:59:18] <toastydeath> it sounds like someone who doesn't know machining but has a computer programmed the part
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[04:59:40] <XXCoder2> thats a possibility
[05:00:00] <XXCoder2> company I work for is train type that takes clients trains em for work with various stuff
[05:00:14] <PetefromTn> is it a hurco VM10?
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[05:00:52] <XXCoder2> thats why I, who never took machinist classes, are running a cnc lol. I learned hell of a lot though, I can almost do it by myself but need lots verification
[05:00:52] <XXCoder2> yeah
[05:01:20] <PetefromTn> supposed to be good machines
[05:01:27] <toastydeath> hurco's okay
[05:01:30] <XXCoder2> video is exact same only older tan and different top plastic cpover lol
[05:01:45] <toastydeath> lately what's been happening is any machine that doesn't fall apart immediately is called "good"
[05:01:55] <toastydeath> because people don't know how to aggressively cut metal
[05:02:28] <XXCoder2> first, find reason to be angry to that metal then... ;)
[05:02:54] <toastydeath> pretty much any machine made today will find position within .0001" over a foot or two
[05:03:06] <toastydeath> thermal expansion over the day is probably going to be shit
[05:03:11] <toastydeath> and the rigidity of the head will suck
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[05:03:33] <XXCoder2> not when it CONSTANTLY sprays coolant fluid on it
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[05:03:38] <toastydeath> actually yes
[05:03:45] <toastydeath> because the ballscrews and ways don't get hit by coolant
[05:03:50] <toastydeath> which is what expands
[05:03:53] <toastydeath> also, the spindle bearing
[05:03:55] <XXCoder2> ah that I dunno
[05:04:05] <toastydeath> good machines have oil coolers
[05:04:13] <toastydeath> and will keep the ballscrews and bearings cold
[05:04:25] <toastydeath> also will have a rigid enough design to take full power cuts
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[05:05:25] <toastydeath> i used to run a mori seiki lathe where 100% of the tool movement was due to tool wear
[05:05:40] <toastydeath> never had to change offsets because i set it so that when the part was about to go out of tolerance, the tool was worn and needed to be replaced
[05:05:49] <toastydeath> reset the insert, and without moving anything the part was back in tolerance
[05:05:57] <toastydeath> most lathes, this is not the case
[05:06:03] <toastydeath> they'll creep around as they heat up and cool down
[05:06:10] <toastydeath> esp on Z
[05:06:24] <toastydeath> spindle bearings grow by like .003-.005"
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[05:06:41] <toastydeath> plus all that rapiding on the screw
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[05:08:26] <XXCoder2> I do refill oil everyday
[05:08:46] <XXCoder2> .25 of whatever unit it is. wild guess is liter
[05:09:09] <toastydeath> refill vs active recirculation
[05:09:27] <toastydeath> way oil just falls off and is what you're refilling
[05:09:33] <toastydeath> that is not what they're cooling
[05:09:57] <XXCoder2> dunno what I see is that it has pump and return tube
[05:10:00] <toastydeath> a machine with an oil chiller has a giant goddamn radiator on the back of it, you usually don't see them on mills smaller than 50x30 workspace
[05:10:16] <toastydeath> or an HMC
[05:10:18] <toastydeath> of any size
[05:10:27] <XXCoder2> youre probably correct, Im not expert lol
[05:10:48] <XXCoder2> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vOP9yxx_7f0 this is exact machine I use. pretty small
[05:11:04] <XXCoder2> it has 4 larger brothers there by it, all vm20
[05:11:19] <XXCoder2> and theres even larger vmx60 lets call it daddy :P
[05:11:32] <toastydeath> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Aqpo69unP0
[05:11:42] <toastydeath> this is the machine i used to run with recirculating oil chillers
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[05:11:55] <toastydeath> except it was the 30x50 variant rather than the 26x60
[05:12:50] <XXCoder2> http://www.icec.com.sa/products.php?id=58 this is redesign
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[05:13:33] <toastydeath> nice
[05:14:34] <XXCoder2> yeah one at work isnt so nice with tan and old style swarf exit lol
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[05:14:46] <XXCoder2> but yeah pretty big. wonder if will run it lol
[05:16:27] <XXCoder2> *wonder if I will run it
[05:18:59] <toastydeath> in my limited experience for big parts they have machinists run that kind of shit
[05:19:00] <toastydeath> not operators
[05:19:18] <toastydeath> if something goes wrong and you scrap an itty bitty plate nobody cares
[05:19:21] <toastydeath> a 50k casting
[05:19:23] <toastydeath> not so much
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[05:36:03] <Loetmichel> mornin'
[05:39:58] <ssi> morn Loetmichel
[05:42:20] <ssi> Loetmichel: I got ppi mode and raster engraving mode working
[05:43:48] <Loetmichel> ppi?
[05:43:54] <ssi> pulses per inch
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[06:48:13] <Deejay> moin
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[11:16:11] <The_Ball> running LinuxCNC on the BeagleBoneBlack is very cool!
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[11:28:06] <SpeedEvil> Using the PRUs properly?
[11:29:38] <SpeedEvil> (PRU = high-speed microcontroller cores at 200MHz inside the BBB designed for high-speed realtime stuff)
[11:32:03] <The_Ball> Not sure yet, I've built up a CRAMPS cape v1 and just put the machinekit.io image on it now
[11:52:09] <The_Ball> I think that's a yes on the PRU: http://blog.machinekit.io/2013/06/i-have-had-several-folks-ask-me-about.html
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[11:54:49] <The_Ball> SpeedEvil, been hammering it for the last hour while running the latency-test and getting the expected 50us max jitter, but that doesn't matter I guess due to the PRU?
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[11:55:20] <The_Ball> skunkworks_, very long time no see
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[11:55:36] <SpeedEvil> I would have hoped for significantly better than 50us
[11:55:50] <SpeedEvil> More like 1, done properly
[11:56:09] <The_Ball> It seems to be "normal" unfortunately, however it might be better if I wasn't running X/OpenBox on the box
[11:56:28] <skunkworks__> The_Ball, Hey - what have you been up to?
[11:57:20] <The_Ball> skunkworks__, too much work, and them some more, hehe. Just playing with machinekit.io's BeagleBoneBlack images for LinuxCNC, pretty cool
[11:58:14] <skunkworks__> neat - I have been mainly testing the new TP and one of the mesa ethernet interfaces
[11:58:42] <The_Ball> what's your new TP?
[12:00:21] <skunkworks__> not mine.. rob Ellenberg re-wrote linuxcnc trajectory planner to have a deeper lookahead. (amoug other things). It has really helped small line segment programs.
[12:00:45] <Tom_itx> is it ever going to make it into mainstream code?
[12:00:47] <skunkworks__> for xyz moves. (he hopes to add abcuvw in the future)
[12:00:59] <skunkworks__> Tom_itx, it is in master and machinekit now
[12:01:12] <The_Ball> ah, nice, how new is this code?
[12:01:14] <Tom_itx> what's machinekit for?
[12:01:33] <Tom_itx> not quite ready for prime time code?
[12:01:35] <The_Ball> Tom_itx, for running LinuxCNC easily on the BBB
[12:01:41] <skunkworks__> Tom_itx, 6 months maybe..
[12:02:27] <The_Ball> skunkworks_, that should help with 3D printing gcode which I'll be running on the BBB, lot's of fiddly bits, infill etc
[12:02:37] <skunkworks__> Tom_itx, well - it needs more testing.. (why it is in linuxcnc master - so it will be in 2.7)
[12:03:52] <skunkworks__> The_Ball, well - if you are doing velocity extruding - yes. If you are using a rotory axis for extruding then no. It falls back to previous behavior. (lookahead only works at the moment for xyz moves)
[12:04:36] <skunkworks__> Tom_itx, but I have had good luck with the new tp - even tried it on the K&T.
[12:04:44] <The_Ball> aha, well velocity extruding is all the new rage now, no?
[12:05:01] <skunkworks__> from what I have read.. (I am not a reprapper...)
[12:06:09] <skunkworks__> I am more of a subractive person...
[12:09:23] <skunkworks__> subtractive even
[12:10:26] <The_Ball> I like a bit of both, hehe
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[12:25:17] <malcom2073> Yeah velocity extrusion seems to be the new rage, it calculates properly what the slicers don't :)
[12:39:00] <Smidge204__> So how does velocity extrusion differ from volumetric rate calculations?
[12:40:10] <malcom2073> It has a bit of lookahead, and slows down before the nozzle slows down
[12:40:20] <malcom2073> as a pressure relief
[12:41:01] <Smidge204__> If the print head moves X millimeters in Y seconds, given W extrusion width, that's Ve cubic millimeters of material. Divide that into Vf volume per mm of filament and you get how many millimeters of filament need to be extruded during that same time
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[12:41:28] <XXCoder2> yeah read that, pretty amazing
[12:41:33] <XXCoder2> looks pretty lot better
[12:41:34] <Smidge204__> taking velocity into account is pretty much implied
[12:42:03] <Smidge204__> So I'm interested in the actual algorythm
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[12:42:41] <malcom2073> It's in the .hal files iirc
[12:43:39] * Smidge204__ realizes what channel he's in and gets confused
[12:44:02] <malcom2073> lol
[12:44:17] <Smidge204__> Well
[12:44:30] <Smidge204__> Where can I find said file(s) ?
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[12:44:41] <malcom2073> https://github.com/luminize/machinekit/blob/vel-control-extruding/configs/ARM/BeagleBone/BeBoPr-Bridge/velocity-extruding/lineardelta-vel-extr.hal
[12:44:47] <Smidge204__> huzzah
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[12:44:55] <malcom2073> Sorry, was looking for it :)
[12:45:25] <malcom2073> Line 281 starts the cool stuff
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[12:46:04] <malcom2073> I'm still not good enough with HAL to get that code working with my cartesian, butI assume at some point someone will do that
[12:47:06] <Smidge204__> Also likely beyond my abilities, but I might be able to glean some understanding from this
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[12:50:11] <Smidge204__> This is actually well commented, kudos
[12:50:58] <malcom2073> Yeah he did a good job explaining it, felt like I could do it, and tried for a couple hours (and failed) :P
[12:51:10] <Smidge204__> So basically it's doing exactly the same calculations as the slicer to figure out how much filament to feed, but there's a modifyer
[12:51:42] <malcom2073> the modifier being the offset to rate during acceleration? yes
[12:51:47] <Smidge204__> Yup
[12:52:04] <Smidge204__> There's really no reason why this couldn't be done in the slicer, from what I see
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[12:52:14] <malcom2073> I agree.
[12:52:28] <Smidge204__> Take the load off of the controller and eliminate the need for new firmware
[12:52:31] <malcom2073> I mentioned it to Sound a couple of months ago, he saidit was the firmwares job to do that
[12:52:40] <malcom2073> But there's a new branch in slic3r that handles this, and he seems to be agreeable to it
[12:52:56] <Smidge204__> Maybe he didni't quite understand what it was doing at the time?
[12:53:03] <malcom2073> Probably, I'm terrible at explaining things :)
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[12:54:52] <Smidge204__> Still, an interesting tweak!
[12:58:04] <malcom2073> I think so, for linuxcnc it's really practical,because using the 4th axis coordinated for the extruder really isn't what you want to do anyway, since that negates the benefits of high extruder acceleration
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[13:21:15] <PetefromTn_> Morning folks
[13:21:39] <PetefromTn_> peeps
[13:21:45] <PetefromTn_> fellow CNC junkies!
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[13:25:10] <FinboySlick> PetefromTn_: Good morning indeed.
[13:25:25] <PetefromTn_> :D
[13:25:39] <FinboySlick> The only better morning is tomorrow morning, when I can sleep in ;)
[13:25:49] <PetefromTn_> I hear ya!
[13:26:05] <FinboySlick> That was vaguely poetic too.
[13:26:16] <Deejay> hi PetefromTn_
[13:26:34] <PetefromTn_> Monday my kids go back to school and I will be getting up REAL early again with them. sigh
[13:26:39] <PetefromTn_> Hey DEEJAY!!
[13:27:05] <Deejay> yay
[13:27:18] <Deejay> the early bird catches the worm ;)
[13:27:26] <PetefromTn_> so they tell me....
[13:27:41] <PetefromTn_> never caught a worm do they taste good?
[13:27:46] <Deejay> hrhr
[13:28:08] <FinboySlick> PetefromTn_: you must walk without rhythm.
[13:28:21] <FinboySlick> Else it catches you.
[13:28:43] <PetefromTn_> rhythm? I am devoid of rhythm apparently.
[13:28:56] <PetefromTn_> I can't dance for shit.
[13:29:10] <PetefromTn_> I can play the music tho!
[13:29:18] <jdh> can you thump?
[13:29:40] <PetefromTn_> I suppose if someone pisses me off enough yeah I could thump em.
[13:29:50] <Deejay> lol
[13:29:50] <FinboySlick> PetefromTn_: It's a reference to fatboy slim who referenced Frank Herbert's Dune.
[13:30:02] <FinboySlick> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XQ7z57qrZU8
[13:30:20] <PetefromTn_> Oh that is a wicked cool movie.
[13:30:31] <jdh> it's a movie?
[13:30:39] <FinboySlick> It's a pretty cool video too. Christopher Walken can dance ;)
[13:30:46] <FinboySlick> He surely attracts the worm.
[13:31:00] <jdh> Pete: kinda early for school isn't it?
[13:31:39] <jdh> hrm. guess not. We are moving my daughter back in a week or so.
[13:32:19] <PetefromTn_> Love Chris Walken... I'll stab you in the face with a screwdriver hehe
[13:32:42] <PetefromTn_> that guy almost looks like he could be a nutjob.
[13:33:05] <PetefromTn_> I was talking about the MOVIE DUNE
[13:33:14] <PetefromTn_> I have it on DVD.
[13:33:26] <jdh> I have it in several paper forms.
[13:33:28] <PetefromTn_> actually there have been several versions of it made now.
[13:33:41] <FinboySlick> PetefromTn_: Visually, the old one is best.
[13:33:42] <PetefromTn_> THE SLEEPER HAS AWAKENED!!
[13:33:49] <FinboySlick> Even though it took liberties with the plot.
[13:34:00] <PetefromTn_> the one with sting?
[13:34:04] <FinboySlick> Yes.
[13:34:12] <PetefromTn_> yeah I like that one best too.
[13:34:27] <PetefromTn_> Barron Harkonnen was a disgusting slob played very well.
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[13:34:56] <FinboySlick> PetefromTn_: Casting was perfect there. They could have done a better job with Tufir though.
[13:35:21] <PetefromTn_> I thought sting was good too. I WILL KILL HIM!!!
[13:35:48] <PetefromTn_> Best part was the worm riding stuff and the thumpers placement.
[13:36:01] <FinboySlick> PetefromTn_: You read the book?
[13:36:13] <PetefromTn_> and the mojadein vocal weapon.
[13:36:19] <PetefromTn_> No not yet.
[13:36:23] <FinboySlick> That was movie only.
[13:36:24] <PetefromTn_> just a fan of the movies.
[13:36:43] <FinboySlick> If you stick to the ones written by Frank, they're brilliant.
[13:36:57] <PetefromTn_> My favorite ski fi is Blade Runner tho...
[13:37:01] <PetefromTn_> sci
[13:37:14] <PetefromTn_> I am sure.
[13:37:15] <FinboySlick> And it's great to have seen the movie first because you can just picture the scenes from the movie and feel right there.
[13:37:18] <PetefromTn_> It is an epic story.
[13:37:27] <PetefromTn_> REALLY...
[13:37:30] <FinboySlick> Movie is highly condensed.
[13:37:39] <PetefromTn_> I always thought reading the book first was better for most storylines.
[13:37:42] <FinboySlick> It's one of the few books where I'd recommend seeing the movie first.
[13:38:02] <FinboySlick> There's so much more to the first book that the movie doesn't spoil much.
[13:38:19] <FinboySlick> And like I said, they took some pretty broad liberties with the plot.
[13:38:25] <PetefromTn_> It is easier to form a personal mental image of the charachters appearance and usually the movies kill that or are of course not what the reader envisioned.
[13:38:51] <FinboySlick> PetefromTn_: The movie was spot on for me with a couple exceptions.
[13:38:54] <PetefromTn_> I am sure that it is so fantastical that some things would be difficult to create on screen.
[13:39:01] <FinboySlick> Namely Tufir Awat.
[13:39:36] <FinboySlick> Actually, no... They could have done it all with the level of effects they had in the 80s. It's probably more a matter of length and keeping viewers interested.
[13:39:52] <PetefromTn_> The assasin' seeker weapon was kinda cool too.
[13:40:04] <FinboySlick> Paul spends like 20 years with the fremen... That's like 10 minutes in the movie.
[13:40:17] <FinboySlick> Those are in the book too.
[13:40:18] <PetefromTn_> Aah Paul Atredes
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[13:40:36] <PetefromTn_> I am sure that they went into much deeper detail about the fremen.
[13:40:58] <PetefromTn_> Is the story of Duke Atredes and the queen similar as well.
[13:41:11] <FinboySlick> The only book that is a bit more painful to read is the fourth. But the next two make it all worthwhile.
[13:41:15] <JesusAlos> hi
[13:41:19] <FinboySlick> Yes.
[13:41:36] <FinboySlick> Jessica is a pretty important character.
[13:41:41] <PetefromTn_> jeez man how many books are there?
[13:41:47] <FinboySlick> 6 by Frank.
[13:41:56] <PetefromTn_> WOW
[13:41:57] <FinboySlick> First one is pretty much the movie.
[13:42:02] <PetefromTn_> No wonder it is condensed.
[13:42:07] <FinboySlick> (only in more detail)
[13:42:13] <FinboySlick> Oh the movie just covered the first book.
[13:42:45] <FinboySlick> The story spans thousands of years.
[13:42:50] <JesusAlos> I attempt to use touchy. But don't sure how to install. I put DISPLAY = touchy in ini file
[13:43:06] <PetefromTn_> You would think they would take this story and run with it in a modern vein on screen today it is so deep. Lots of sequels etc..
[13:43:08] <JesusAlos> but 't don't run
[13:43:33] <JesusAlos> and read this: http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/gui/touchy.html
[13:43:41] <JesusAlos> but is confused for me
[13:43:59] <JesusAlos> don't sure what put in touchy.hal file
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[16:23:01] <CaptHindsight> http://www.3ders.org/images2014/littlerp-3d-printer-kickstarter-2.png better than any FDM print but they are still getting much lower res than possible with a consumer projector
[16:23:19] <CaptHindsight> http://www.3ders.org/articles/20140801-affordable-open-source-dlp-3d-printer-soon-on-kickstarter.html
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[16:24:05] <Smidge204__> How long did that print take, though?
[16:24:22] <Smidge204__> 'cause the vertical resolution might not be worth the time
[16:24:31] <CaptHindsight> they are 1-5 second per layer
[16:24:56] <Smidge204__> I assume that's independent of layer cross-section?
[16:25:19] <Smidge204__> Since they're using a DLP projector and not a sweeping laser
[16:25:31] <CaptHindsight> so with 1 second layers <25 seconds
[16:26:05] <Smidge204__> That's actually pretty good, then
[16:26:06] <CaptHindsight> yes, you print 1024 x 768 (or whatever res projectr) points at one time
[16:26:25] <CaptHindsight> as compared to a glue gun
[16:28:24] <CaptHindsight> I think that their distortions are due to peeling the prints off the bottom of the stage after each layer
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[16:41:47] <ssi> CaptHindsight: that looks like a pretty decent printer, and I think I have all the tech i need to scratchbuild one if they release the design
[16:42:19] <ssi> I hate when projects say "this WILL BE open source"
[16:42:33] <ssi> clearly you have a prototype, which means clearly there's a design. If it's open source, release it!
[16:44:51] <CaptHindsight> ssi: ? just follow the top down example at UIC...
[16:44:58] <ssi> ?
[16:45:01] <Smidge204__> Maybe, just maybe, they want to get the design to a certain level of completion and refinement before they let other people rip it off
[16:45:25] <ssi> Smidge204__: the license is non-commercial, so ostensibly there's no risk of that :P
[16:45:50] <Smidge204__> The risk is a lot of broken, obsolete designs floating around
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[16:46:47] <CaptHindsight> ssi: https://nano-cemms.illinois.edu/materials/3d_printing_full the design is obvious to someone like you
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[16:47:05] <jthornton> how can one "rip off" something that is free?
[16:47:22] <ssi> CaptHindsight: sure, I could make it happen...
[16:47:42] <ssi> CaptHindsight: having someone else's models to build from just removes a LOT of time and trial&error
[16:47:49] <CaptHindsight> ssi: that example is top down projection vs bottom up through a vat in the littleRP design
[16:48:10] <Smidge204__> jthornton: Easy; take it, make trivial changes if any, and claim it's yours while promoting it to get better public exposure. See also: Makerbot.
[16:48:35] <CaptHindsight> top down doesn't have the problems with the vat and layer separation
[16:48:40] <ssi> jthornton: I think the point is they want to try to get their money through kickstarter before they release the design
[16:49:08] <jthornton> I see, I didn't click on the link...
[16:49:55] <Smidge204__> "Release early, release often" doesn't work that well for physical machines - you can't just download the latest version or a patch. it's worth taking some extra time to work out the details before setting it free IMHO.
[16:50:02] <ssi> thing is, if I wanted to "rip them off", I could draw one up and build it based only on looking at their pictures
[16:50:26] <ssi> and fun thing about that is then it's a clean re-engineer and not bound by their silly CC license :)
[16:50:33] <CaptHindsight> ssi: after a few hours of study I don't think you'd want the plans for that littlRP
[16:50:59] <ssi> CaptHindsight: yeah maybe not, but it'd be cheap and easy to build if I had drawings on hand; be a fun weekend project
[16:51:28] <ssi> I haven't messed with sla, and it'd be fun to dabble
[16:52:15] <CaptHindsight> this printer has better res and is only $299 + projector http://www.3ders.org/articles/20140728-qsqm-acquired-launch-uncia-dlp-3d-printer-on-indiegogo.html
[16:52:44] <ssi> what determines the layer res? just the Z step res?
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[16:53:11] <CaptHindsight> yes
[16:53:19] <ssi> well that's easy to fix in any design
[16:53:54] <CaptHindsight> shh don't make it sound so simple, they have 1-2 years in their design
[16:54:09] <ssi> :)
[16:54:30] <Smidge204__> Why is that youtube video like something that was filmed in the 1970s?
[16:54:37] <ssi> well shit, look at the gyrations the maker people go through to build laser cutters
[16:54:44] <ssi> I scratchbuilt one without anyone's plans in two weeks :P
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[16:55:01] <ssi> it's amazing what you can accomplish with real tools
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[16:55:32] <CaptHindsight> Smidge204__: heh, the music adds character
[16:55:33] <ssi> that said, I did lean pretty heavily on someone else's work last night to get ppi and raster engraving working
[16:56:05] <ssi> CaptHindsight: so what's special about the vats?
[16:56:08] <Smidge204__> The music, the lighting, the shakey, slightly off-center framing, the soft focus...
[16:56:08] <ssi> something about coating?
[16:56:39] <CaptHindsight> ssi: bottom up projection through a vat vs top down into the top of the resin
[16:56:44] <ssi> no I get that part
[16:56:51] <ssi> I saw somtehing about the vats needing to be coated/recoated
[16:56:54] <ssi> is that only for bottom up?
[16:57:12] <CaptHindsight> bottom up means you have to peel the print off the vat after every layer is exposed
[16:57:18] <ssi> ahh ok that makes sense then
[16:57:32] <ssi> with top down you only peel the print's bottom layer off the platen
[16:57:42] <CaptHindsight> top down means to have to lower the print after each exposure to recoat the op layer
[16:58:10] <ssi> the one advantage that the bottom up has though is you don't need nearly as much resin depth
[16:58:13] <CaptHindsight> so you get into the fine details of surface tension, adhesion, viscosity, etc etc
[16:58:46] <CaptHindsight> they each have their trade offs
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[16:59:40] <IchGuckLive> hi all B)
[16:59:41] <ssi> the resin is expensive
[16:59:43] <ssi> hey ich
[16:59:43] <CaptHindsight> lol the comments about how the Chinese have ripped off a USA ripoff of a german patent from 20+ years ago
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[17:01:45] <Smidge204__> I think there was one design that floated the resin on an inert liquid to decrease the amount of resin you'd need in the vat
[17:02:37] <Smidge204__> Could have been water or mineral oil or something. I guess you'd jsut need something more dense and not miscible with the resin
[17:03:10] <CaptHindsight> some resins are a few $ per Kg, the maker stuff if $60+ since they have fanboys like reprap
[17:03:43] <CaptHindsight> they used salt water to float the resin
[17:03:56] <Smidge204__> Ah
[17:03:58] <IchGuckLive> oh thee are realy bad qualetes of resin out
[17:04:30] <CaptHindsight> many monomers and oligomers are non-polar and hydrophobic
[17:04:58] <CaptHindsight> using salt water limits their density
[17:05:24] <CaptHindsight> https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/117421627/the-peachy-printer-the-first-100-3d-printer-and-sc
[17:05:48] <Smidge204__> I knew it was something simple like that
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[17:06:25] <CaptHindsight> poor res, was mostly a gimmick to make a quick buck
[17:06:53] <CaptHindsight> https://s3.amazonaws.com/ksr/assets/000/903/987/2d636fcf02a6bf503db2e5337d9e1ac4_large.JPG?1378752376
[17:07:38] <CaptHindsight> like lots of kickstart, indegogo etc projects
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[17:08:11] <CaptHindsight> what gets me is that most people don't feel ripped off after they get their stuff
[17:09:09] <Smidge204__> if they got anything, they technically weren't ripped off
[17:09:46] <Smidge204__> There should be a certain expectation when you pre-order something that isn't even being made yet, that you will get little or even nothing in return
[17:10:20] <CaptHindsight> yes, after getting used to windows, fast food, healthcare in the US etc they are pretty used to being shafted
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[17:11:00] <Smidge204__> Eh, not really no.
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[17:15:08] <IchGuckLive> CaptHindsight: republecans did rejekt healscare to the own people what a miss
[17:15:14] <IchGuckLive> 1mio jobs
[17:15:26] <IchGuckLive> lots of good
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[17:16:57] <Tom_itx> IchGuckLive make Solarlux feel welcome!
[17:17:05] <Solarlux> Thanks
[17:17:11] <Solarlux> I am glad to find this place
[17:17:20] <Solarlux> Technical mind people here
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[17:17:41] <Solarlux> Best subject in world electronics robotics and cnc
[17:18:31] <IchGuckLive> all for ypou what can wee do
[17:18:47] <IchGuckLive> Solarlux: where in the world are y<ou
[17:18:57] <Solarlux> electronics all here too?
[17:19:05] <Solarlux> I 'm from Latvia
[17:19:12] <Solarlux> And you?
[17:19:46] <IchGuckLive> im in germany
[17:20:22] <Solarlux> Germany best engineers in world
[17:20:40] <mozmck> nah, that's the US ;)
[17:20:41] <Solarlux> Big mind people there
[17:20:51] <Solarlux> But 80 million germans in US (=
[17:21:02] <Solarlux> Biggest population from all nations is germans in US
[17:21:16] <Solarlux> approxametaly 80 million germans in United states
[17:21:40] <Solarlux> 17 % of US
[17:21:44] <Smidge204__> I know what you mean, but the way you worded that makes it wrong
[17:21:45] <Solarlux> people
[17:21:52] <Solarlux> Yes sorry
[17:21:55] <Smidge204__> :p
[17:22:12] <Solarlux> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_American
[17:22:14] <FinboySlick> The floaty resin thing displayed in the peachy printer is a pretty cool idea. Are there pro printers with that sort of design?
[17:22:39] <Solarlux> Uhh i am wrong
[17:22:44] <Solarlux> 50 million germans in US
[17:22:45] <Solarlux> :D
[17:22:55] <archivist> erm...the industrial revolution started in the UK
[17:22:58] <Solarlux> Sorry i am sorry
[17:23:22] <Solarlux> Hmm i have conclussion i don't know anything about world progress history )=
[17:23:32] <Solarlux> I 'm wrong
[17:23:37] <Solarlux> In my thoughts
[17:24:43] <Smidge204__> archivist: They then proceeded to denude the entire country of coal and trees for their steam engines
[17:24:54] <Smidge204__> Also, those engines had a propensity to explode...
[17:25:26] <IchGuckLive> im out of this discussion 29 days to go till rest of work
[17:25:36] <archivist> we have millions on tons of coal left
[17:25:50] <archivist> on/of
[17:26:48] <CaptHindsight> German American vs American German?
[17:27:19] <Solarlux> CaptHindsight I 'm wrong
[17:27:27] <CaptHindsight> FinboySlick: maybe in Canada
[17:28:06] <CaptHindsight> IchGuckLive: retirement?
[17:28:48] <CaptHindsight> IchGuckLive: what will you do with yourself then?
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[17:29:59] <SquirrelCZECH_> hi folks! :)
[17:30:18] <Solarlux> Hello
[17:30:56] <IchGuckLive> CaptHindsight: yes
[17:33:31] <SquirrelCZECH_> any tips for cnc machine for beginners?
[17:33:36] * SquirrelCZECH_ wants something for PCB O:)
[17:34:35] <jdh> 3020
[17:34:57] <IchGuckLive> SquirrelCZECH_: http://foengarage.de/cnc4.jpg
[17:35:07] <IchGuckLive> http://foengarage.de/pcb.jpg
[17:35:16] <SquirrelCZECH_> wow, looks like it
[17:35:32] * SquirrelCZECH_ liked this construction
[17:35:32] <SquirrelCZECH_> http://www.c-n-c.cz/download/file.php?id=37460&mode=view
[17:35:41] <SquirrelCZECH_> but looks little bit too big for pcb
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[17:35:56] <uw> halo
[17:37:45] <ssi> CaptHindsight: that peachy machine is bizarre
[17:37:55] <ssi> galvos and water-level height control? wacky
[17:38:23] <FinboySlick> CaptHindsight: Why in Canada specifically?
[17:38:40] <FinboySlick> There's a Canadian patent on it?
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[17:41:21] <CaptHindsight> FinboySlick: I just thought that since it was a project from Canada
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[17:43:38] <ssi> I thought you were making a joke about canadian engineering :P
[17:44:18] <pcw_home> aboot
[17:45:17] <IchGuckLive> ssi french or english speeking O.O
[17:45:22] <CaptHindsight> no i just kid the Italians on their engineering :)
[17:45:30] <ssi> :)
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[17:46:02] <ssi> CaptHindsight: http://seemecnc.com/products/droplit-diy-kit
[17:49:27] <CaptHindsight> I guess they couldn't get an LCD projector to work since they used the wrong resins
[17:49:49] <CaptHindsight> it has nothing to do with the mechanics of the system
[17:50:53] <CaptHindsight> "The Z axis stage is driven by an M5-.8 screw and uses our own design of an anti-backlash nut and spring assembly to hold less than 5 micron accuracy."
[17:51:07] <IchGuckLive> CaptHindsight: thay own oly brugola dietchi italiens like that
[17:51:08] <archivist> hehe
[17:51:31] <FinboySlick> I'm sort of impressed that ghetto galvanometers managed results such as those in the video.
[17:51:35] <ssi> CaptHindsight: the LCD might filter UV
[17:51:53] <archivist> not a chance an m5 screw will be that good
[17:52:08] <ssi> archivist: NOT EVEN WITH THEIR OWN DESIGN OF 3D PRINTED AB NUT?!
[17:52:15] <CaptHindsight> heh, try to teach them that
[17:52:16] <archivist> no
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[17:52:25] <ssi> btw I really hate allthread as screws in these machines
[17:52:33] <ssi> cmon guys acme screw isn't that much money
[17:52:56] <ssi> I mean sure, you can't get it at home depot
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[17:53:02] <ssi> but neither can you get steppers at home depot
[17:53:05] <archivist> cmon the acme stuff is just as accurate as the allthread
[17:53:29] <ssi> perhaps, but it's much smoother
[17:53:49] <FinboySlick> archivist: Maybe they map screws individually and compensate in software? ;)
[17:53:57] <archivist> all comes out of a tread rolling machine along with the cheaper ball screws
[17:54:01] <CaptHindsight> hahahahahaaaaaaa
[17:54:17] <CaptHindsight> FinboySlick: good one
[17:55:26] <CaptHindsight> they are all KIA designs (know it all's) just ask them
[17:57:13] <CaptHindsight> they are reinventing the positioner since they use over priced bearings, screws, guides etc
[17:58:13] <CaptHindsight> why use a precision ground screw when a 30 cent skate bearing and 8mm rod will do? :)
[17:59:04] <ssi> I don't care about these type of machines having ground screws and profile rail
[17:59:10] <ssi> just don't tell me it'll do 5um accuracy
[17:59:15] <archivist> because accuracy and reliability and repeatability
[17:59:22] <ssi> although the poorly worded "less than 5 micron accuracy" might be very telling
[17:59:31] <ssi> does it have 5um accuracy?
[17:59:34] <ssi> no, it has less accuracy than that
[18:00:29] <FinboySlick> ssi: In marketing, they call it cleverly worded.
[18:00:31] <archivist> I wound up a certain cnc rotary table maker with his website claims for accuracy
[18:00:39] <ssi> :)
[18:00:59] <SquirrelCZECH_> lolz
[18:01:08] * SquirrelCZECH_ is sort of afraid to show his printer now O:)
[18:01:22] <ssi> SquirrelCZECH_: nothing to be afraid of
[18:01:33] <ssi> just don't show us some maker-class machine and tell us it is accurate to 5um :)
[18:01:41] <archivist> SquirrelCZECH_, dont worry I made a very fugly machine
[18:02:07] <ssi> I have machines that'll hold 5um, and they're thousands of pounds of iron :P
[18:02:13] <SquirrelCZECH_> :D
[18:02:14] <FinboySlick> archivist: Bold claim coming from you.
[18:02:18] <CaptHindsight> my guess is it's >5um and less than 1meter
[18:02:20] <SquirrelCZECH_> I suppose
[18:02:26] <SquirrelCZECH_> I will spend now some time with cad
[18:02:30] <SquirrelCZECH_> trying to design pcb cnc
[18:02:33] <Loetmichel> *grrr* well done saitek. rebooting the sytem for driver install... without asking the user... VERY well done... :-(
[18:02:40] <archivist> proof http://www.collection.archivist.info/archive/DJCPD/PD/2008/2008_02_28_cnc/P2210001.JPG
[18:03:26] <archivist> still has hand wound Z in that pic :)
[18:03:38] <ssi> :)
[18:03:40] <SquirrelCZECH_> daaamn
[18:03:51] <SquirrelCZECH_> http://squirrel.veverak.org/photo/IMG_1529.JPG
[18:03:52] <ssi> archivist: perhaps not the most flattering picture ;)
[18:04:37] <ssi> SquirrelCZECH_: is that a piece of carbon for the bed?
[18:04:41] <SquirrelCZECH_> yep
[18:04:47] <ssi> work well? never seen that done
[18:04:50] <SquirrelCZECH_> yeah
[18:04:51] <ssi> I use borosilicate with PET tape
[18:04:55] * SquirrelCZECH_ is happy with that
[18:05:01] <SquirrelCZECH_> using carbon and hair sprair
[18:05:07] <ssi> intresting
[18:05:10] <SquirrelCZECH_> sometimes it doesn't work well though :D
[18:05:20] <SquirrelCZECH_> ssi: but I suppose I should clean it
[18:05:30] <ssi> is your flex air nozzle all 3d printed too?
[18:05:32] <ssi> pretty neat
[18:05:46] <SquirrelCZECH_> yeah, that air flex is 3d printed
[18:05:55] <ssi> did you cut the frame plates, or buy them?
[18:05:58] <ssi> looks like aluminum
[18:06:05] <SquirrelCZECH_> 4mm aluminium
[18:06:16] <SquirrelCZECH_> got sources from guy on #reprap and ordered it from local cnc store
[18:06:19] <ssi> gotcha
[18:06:28] <SquirrelCZECH_> 100 usd
[18:06:45] <SquirrelCZECH_> (with postage)
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[18:07:22] <ssi> pretty nice machine overall; I'd tidy up the wiring though :)
[18:07:43] <SquirrelCZECH_> it was, pretty well
[18:07:48] <SquirrelCZECH_> then I had to undo it
[18:07:51] <SquirrelCZECH_> and you know it...
[18:07:52] <SquirrelCZECH_> :D
[18:07:56] <ssi> heheh
[18:07:58] <SquirrelCZECH_> ssi: I am building box for it
[18:08:04] <SquirrelCZECH_> and electronics will be out of the box
[18:08:11] <SquirrelCZECH_> so, I would redo it anyway
[18:08:40] <SquirrelCZECH_> it was supposed to be like this http://www.veverak.org/_media/squirrel:dsc_0166.jpg?cache=http://www.veverak.org/_media/squirrel:dsc_0166.jpg?cache=
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[18:09:13] <SquirrelCZECH_> afk
[18:09:50] <FinboySlick> Was watching a knifemaker workshop the other day and saw a Haas office mill in the corner of his shop. Though: "Hey that's pretty neat, I wonder how much they cost."
[18:10:16] <SquirrelCZECH_> ssi: I want to upgrade it to two x-carriage version
[18:10:21] <SquirrelCZECH_> I really like that idea
[18:10:38] <SquirrelCZECH_> http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:115885
[18:10:57] <FinboySlick> How foolish of me to think: Hass trying to get in the Tormach market?
[18:11:12] <ssi> neat
[18:11:14] <FinboySlick> :s/Hass/Haas/.
[18:11:31] <ssi> FinboySlick: I had the crazy idea the other day that I should just buy a tormach :P
[18:11:44] <ssi> I'm having a really hard time finding a mill to be happy with
[18:11:55] <IchGuckLive> SquirrelCZECH_: get a 4hotand
[18:12:03] <IchGuckLive> and do near mass production
[18:12:07] <SquirrelCZECH_> :D
[18:12:10] <SquirrelCZECH_> mass?
[18:12:14] <FinboySlick> ssi: Well, for only $60k more, you could get a Haas!
[18:12:14] <SquirrelCZECH_> mass is over 10k I suppose?
[18:12:15] <SquirrelCZECH_> :)
[18:12:26] <ssi> FinboySlick: where do I sign?!
[18:12:27] <ssi> :(
[18:12:48] <IchGuckLive> parts within 500pices
[18:12:48] <FinboySlick> It's about the same size but damn...
[18:13:07] <IchGuckLive> lots of coustomers whant that amount
[18:13:21] <IchGuckLive> im off BYE
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[18:15:16] <FinboySlick> ssi: http://www.haascnc.com/mt_spec1.asp?id=OM-2A&webID=OFFICE_MILL_VMC#gsc.tab=0
[18:15:32] <ssi> cute
[18:15:39] <ssi> I'd buy one for a tenth that
[18:15:49] <FinboySlick> Likewise.
[18:16:18] <FinboySlick> I wonder how much of a premium the controls and electronics add.
[18:16:46] <ssi> 2100lb shipping weight
[18:16:50] <ssi> at least it fits my constraints there
[18:17:43] <ssi> $2k for a fourth axis, another $6200 for fifth
[18:18:04] <ssi> looks like those and a 50krpm spindle are the only options
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[18:20:22] <PetefromTn_> 12x10 travels..
[18:20:43] <ssi> cmon pete, whaddya expect for only seventy grand?!
[18:20:52] <FinboySlick> I think that's pretty good for a machine that size.
[18:20:53] <archivist> should be enough for anyone
[18:20:53] <PetefromTn_> sheesh..
[18:21:16] <PetefromTn_> I would rather cut my arm off then pay that much for a tiny mill like that.
[18:21:32] <PetefromTn_> You can get a real nice very slightly used VF2 for less than that.
[18:22:21] <PetefromTn_> actually a LOT less than that.
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[18:23:00] <ssi> I wish the chinese mill factories would pop out some cheap RF-45-ish machines with CAT spindles
[18:23:10] <ssi> maybe sell one without all the crap that a conversion will throw away
[18:23:10] <ssi> haha
[18:23:20] <PetefromTn_> yeah I know how you feel.
[18:23:29] <PetefromTn_> I wished for something like that for awhile.
[18:23:39] <ssi> then you gave up and took the front off your house
[18:24:17] <PetefromTn_> Honestly tho compared to the space my RF45 used with the complete enclosure and whatnot this Cincinatti Arrow 500 is not all that much bigger really in footprint.
[18:24:31] <ssi> it's not the footprint I'm concerned about :)
[18:24:33] <PetefromTn_> yeah I did and honestly it took me like two hours.
[18:24:40] <ssi> it's the "getting it inside without taking the front off my house"
[18:25:00] <PetefromTn_> There are lots of other similar machines that fit thru a garage door.
[18:25:43] <PetefromTn_> as good as you are with programming and the electronics side of things I would think it would be a slam dunk for you,
[18:25:57] <ssi> what, rebuilding my garage fascia?
[18:26:31] <PetefromTn_> hell I did it and I am like Fred Flintstone with a volt meter mumbling and drooling over here.
[18:26:48] <ssi> I'm not worried about the conversion part
[18:26:51] <ssi> just the acquisition
[18:27:02] <ssi> and making enough room
[18:27:08] <ssi> I need to sell my clausing lathe
[18:27:21] <jdh> how much?
[18:27:25] <PetefromTn_> my machine is running right now making parts.
[18:27:35] <PetefromTn_> :D
[18:27:38] <ssi> $2k
[18:27:43] <ssi> 12x36
[18:27:56] <ssi> two chucks, QCTP and holders
[18:28:21] <jdh> too pricey
[18:28:30] <ssi> everything's too pricey for you
[18:28:37] <jdh> nah, $1k might not be
[18:28:59] <PetefromTn_> for a nice clausing lathe?
[18:29:19] <ssi> I'd sell it for $1k but I'd keep the tooling
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[18:29:50] <PetefromTn_> Pop that bitch on Craigslist for $2k and I bet it sells PDQ
[18:29:55] <ssi> yeah I just need to do it
[18:29:57] <ssi> http://www.lathes.co.uk/clausing/page2.html
[18:30:02] <ssi> it's that one
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[18:30:36] <PetefromTn_> does it look like it fell off the back of a truck and got dragged down the freeway for a few miles?
[18:30:52] <ssi> it looks like a dirty 50 year old lathe
[18:31:23] <PetefromTn_> well break out the degreaser man...you could have a nice used VMC for not much more than the sell price if you are willing to retrofit.
[18:32:14] <PetefromTn_> oops gotta go check on the machine.
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[18:36:06] <ssi> http://gizmodo.com/a-drone-crashed-while-smuggling-weed-into-a-south-carol-1614462710
[18:40:51] <mozmck> I missed a Leblond CNC lathe here for $1k. I don't know how good a deal it was or not, but I bet it was good for that price.
[18:40:53] <FinboySlick> The standard spindle on the office mill is 30k RPM and apparently does rigid tapping. What sort of motor would typically be used for that?
[18:41:15] <mozmck> Had a power chuck and 2 manual
[18:42:02] <mozmck> dremel in a large housing :)
[18:43:24] <Loetmichel> FinboySlick: one with a planetary gearbox?
[18:43:40] <Loetmichel> (electric shift)
[18:43:57] <FinboySlick> Loetmichel: Interesting.
[18:44:09] <Loetmichel> was a guess
[18:44:16] <Loetmichel> i have no idea really
[18:44:28] <FinboySlick> Loetmichel: Still, better guess than I could come up with ;)
[18:44:34] <Loetmichel> but that would be a solution to 30krpm AND loads of torque
[18:45:42] <FinboySlick> Though components that spin that fast seem like they'd wear and grow backlash rather quick.
[18:45:55] <FinboySlick> I mean gearing components.
[18:46:36] <ssi> it's probably just an AC servo with a couple of speeds in a gearbox
[18:47:04] <Loetmichel> ssi: thats what i meant
[18:47:23] <ssi> no great magic to it
[18:47:37] <ssi> other than expensive bearings in the spindle itself :)
[18:48:12] <Loetmichel> i have seen direct drive spindles that could do M12 rigid tapping AND 24krpm, though
[18:48:22] <Loetmichel> ... but they had 30kW
[18:48:29] <Loetmichel> and weighted about 100kg
[18:48:30] <ssi> :)
[18:48:47] <Loetmichel> and cost like a big house ;-)
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[18:52:41] <uw> halo Loetmichel
[18:53:00] <Loetmichel> hmm?
[18:53:09] <Loetmichel> ah, +l
[18:53:17] <Deejay> hi uw
[18:54:02] <uw> hi Deejay
[18:54:20] <uw> does/has anyone used Fadal machines?
[18:54:35] <uw> i am looking at one that i could get a very good deal on soon
[18:54:44] <uw> and curious of their quality/parts
[18:56:28] <rob_h> not too bad, made in same factory as a leadwell as part of the same group
[18:57:33] <rob_h> realy depends how hard alife the machine has had, is it bedway or rails.. how old is it
[18:57:49] <uw> i havent heard of them either though...but i'm new to these higher end production machines
[18:58:11] <rob_h> been around many years
[18:58:41] <uw> the machine is i think 1998 or 1999
[18:58:48] <uw> VMC 15
[18:59:02] <rob_h> so around time linier rails came into play
[18:59:40] <uw> though supposedly the biggest part it ever made was 2" long
[18:59:54] <uw> linier rails?
[18:59:57] <rob_h> can you hear it run
[19:00:13] <rob_h> linear rails
[19:00:38] <uw> yes it goes for auction in a week and I've see it move a path, but not cut (no material)
[19:00:48] <uw> oh ok
[19:01:03] <rob_h> need to run it in rapids, see how it sound do the bearings on screw sound worn out
[19:01:52] <rob_h> spindle bearings what are they like.. etc. what i would look for in a2nd hand machine my self
[19:02:18] <rob_h> or if its cheap and if they need some TLC then can i live with the cost of fixing
[19:02:32] <rob_h> that realy applys to any big iron machine of any age realy
[19:02:43] <uw> I dont think i can use it on my own routine (say, move it fast and stuff)
[19:03:17] <rob_h> i am sure they can demo it, doing tool changes.. rapid up and down in X Y Z etc.. run a few drill cycles
[19:04:12] <uw> oh ive see it change tools. It comes with a bunch (BT-18 maybe? I'm new to these quick changers as the mill i have uses R8)
[19:04:22] <uw> that was in the test run it performed
[19:04:34] <uw> changing tools, moving around, up down etc.
[19:04:35] <rob_h> be BT30 or BT40 id guess
[19:04:45] <uw> no cutting though as they didnt have anything to cut
[19:05:00] <rob_h> if bearings on screws are worn u will hear it. should move fairly quite in rapids
[19:05:12] <uw> quite possibly correct with the BT30 BT40
[19:05:39] <rob_h> what are you using it for, hobby or production
[19:05:41] <ssi> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vmc-CNC-Laser-deposition-Router-3D-Printer-Welding-Plasma-Automation-Mach-EMC2-/360876720925?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item5405edc31d#shpCntId
[19:06:20] <uw> hobby is my plan but maybe side work as it is big and if i were to get it, it would take up half of my garage because it is signifantly bigger than my rong-fu
[19:06:33] <uw> and i would sell my converted rong-fu
[19:06:39] <kfoltman> ssi: did you just search ebay on emc2?
[19:06:57] <uw> I believe i can get this fadal machine for $2k
[19:07:01] <rob_h> i see, yea might not notice most of the issues i pointed out untill trying to machine tight tolerance parts
[19:07:06] <ssi> lol no
[19:07:17] <rob_h> see i am coming from a full production cnc background here :)
[19:07:25] <rob_h> with a facotry of machines
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[19:07:37] <ssi> http://www.ebay.com/itm/FADAL-VMC20-Machine-from-Machine-Shop-Water-damage-for-repair-or-parts-/201127198752?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2ed41d8020
[19:07:40] <uw> very cool you're the guy to talk to LOL
[19:07:40] <ssi> I wonder how bad off that guy is
[19:07:48] <uw> i would like this machine, but dont want it to be a nightmare
[19:08:02] <uw> as in, always down, spending $2k on parts every few months, etc
[19:08:45] <rob_h> well its a common machine so parts would not be an issue, just be worn parts like i said, bearings etc which you can get from any good bearing stockist
[19:09:41] <rob_h> for 2k i guess you cant realy go too far wrong if you seen it working, all works as it should
[19:09:52] <rob_h> guess you have 3phase then to power it
[19:10:59] <uw> yes, thats another factor...
[19:11:16] <rob_h> ssi, a flooded machine for 5k erm abit much
[19:11:21] <ssi> yeah probably so
[19:11:21] <uw> however If i can get the machine to my house and working nicely for $5k or less I think i will be happy
[19:11:31] <ssi> this is cute
[19:11:31] <ssi> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Kitamura-cnc-milling-machine-/131245165154?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1e8ed24a62
[19:11:55] <uw> is $5k a good number would you say?
[19:12:05] <rob_h> buying big iron is always a pain never know what its realy like untill you start to use it and find its quirks
[19:12:22] <uw> this is what im afraid of
[19:12:27] <uw> esp because I have never had one before
[19:12:30] <rob_h> i dont know current price on thoes machines, plus i am UK so total diff price points
[19:12:57] <rob_h> never buy a machine running on plastic all day, i know that one you spend months cleaning the stuff out of them :(
[19:13:15] <rob_h> ssi, Kitamura now u have gone to the quality end of the machines
[19:13:23] <ssi> it's a tiny one
[19:13:28] <ssi> but it might be just the thing for me
[19:13:30] <rob_h> yea looks quite old too
[19:13:41] <rob_h> probly with kitamura no many let them good at a good age
[19:14:43] <rob_h> every one i know with a kitamura loves them
[19:14:52] <ssi> I wonder how that control is
[19:14:58] <rob_h> fanuc 10
[19:15:03] <ssi> I typically think I'll gut whatever control comes on a machine I get
[19:15:08] <rob_h> quite old now we have a few with a 10m on still
[19:15:12] <ssi> but it might be worth playing with the fanuc first
[19:15:25] <rob_h> very reliable tho but electronics are getting to end of life thats the issue
[19:15:36] <ssi> yea
[19:15:48] <rob_h> you get a woping 17k of mem
[19:16:06] <ssi> heheh
[19:16:17] <ssi> my only other "real" machine is my HNC
[19:16:18] <rob_h> even tho on a new fanuc you only get 150k i think
[19:16:26] <ssi> and it had the old old old GE 550 control
[19:16:30] <ssi> which was punch-tape
[19:16:34] <rob_h> o was it a HNC
[19:16:34] <uw> i think it's amazing what they could do with 17k of mem LOL
[19:16:46] <ssi> it worked when I got it, but I had no way to punch a tape to try it
[19:16:49] <cradek> hey that's like 100 feet of memory
[19:16:50] <ssi> so it got gutted immediately :)
[19:16:57] <uw> this IRC client is like 1000x that
[19:17:08] <rob_h> lol cradek they still quite it in tape length which is funny
[19:17:13] <rob_h> ^quote
[19:17:16] <cradek> haha
[19:17:26] * FinboySlick scrolls back 30 feet.
[19:17:30] <ssi> :)
[19:17:47] <rob_h> yea but them days not many could draw todays complex shapes
[19:18:02] <rob_h> plus you used alot of sub programs to produce a pocket etc as you had no cad/cam much
[19:18:24] <cradek> well rectangles are all the rage again
[19:18:32] <ssi> are they? :P
[19:18:33] <cradek> you see people rubbing them everywhere constantly
[19:19:08] <cradek> eating, driving, pooping, always while rubbing rectangles
[19:19:09] <ssi> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7QFJUfbi0CI
[19:19:11] <ssi> this looks like a newer one
[19:19:13] <ssi> it's sooooo cute
[19:19:18] <rob_h> so the next mold too we make will be a nice 4 sided box. nice
[19:20:36] <rob_h> ssi, now u just need to add a front pallet to it :)
[19:20:53] <FinboySlick> ssi: Looks awesome.
[19:21:02] <rob_h> plus a robot and head home
[19:21:27] <ssi> I know those words, but I didn't catch that :)
[19:22:20] <rob_h> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ME1RYec63FQ
[19:22:46] <ssi> the pallet I get
[19:22:52] <ssi> the "robot and head home" part escapes me :)
[19:23:06] <rob_h> ur the robot i guess then
[19:23:13] <ssi> ohhh now I follow you
[19:23:33] <ssi> thing is, it would be going in my home
[19:23:35] <ssi> so I'd be home already :)
[19:24:20] <ssi> that really is a nice little machine
[19:25:57] <rob_h> quite a nice little pennie too i bet
[19:26:29] <ssi> don't ruin my dreams :(
[19:27:06] <rob_h> poping out for abit, talk later
[19:27:51] <ssi> http://www.ebay.com/itm/12-X-10-Y-Kitamura-Mycenter-0-Sparkchange-VERTICAL-MACHINING-CENTER-Yasnac-MX-/400749594291?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item5d4e8986b3
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[19:29:00] <rob_h> 8.5K in good old english pounds quite cheap
[19:29:10] <ssi> perhaps
[19:29:16] <ssi> above my budget sadly
[19:29:20] <rob_h> just rember only 5hp spindle on machiens like that so not going to push big cutters etc
[19:31:10] <ssi> I wonder what the toolchanger capacity is
[19:31:19] <ssi> bt30 spindle I think?
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[19:36:05] <MC500> Thanks cradek for turning me on to 2.6 debian with xfce, it works and is way cool!
[19:36:12] <cradek> yay!
[19:36:38] <MC500> I am trying to munch my 2.3 configs into 2.6 and get it to work.
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[19:39:14] <MC500> the problem I have at the moment is that it seems all the limit switches and estops are being read backwards.. example my Ymaxlim Yminlim are both "True" as they should be making a closed curciut when the machine is off the limit switch, hoever EMC is reading it backards and saying its on limt... if I press all the limits then it says off limit.. is there somthing simple I missed, it used to work fine
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[19:40:58] <cradek> input hal pins usually have -in-not complements
[19:41:07] <cradek> sounds like you just have to fix your hal
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[19:42:02] <MC500> yea, the old hal worked which has got me confused (at least I think it worked) so change -in to -not???
[19:42:12] <cradek> what hardware is this? is it mesa?
[19:42:20] <MC500> its stg
[19:42:27] <cradek> ohhhh
[19:42:29] <MC500> servo to go
[19:42:42] <cradek> first, celebrate that it works at all!
[19:42:58] <MC500> YAAAAAAAA!!!!!!! :):):):):)
[19:43:04] <MC500> done
[19:43:16] <cradek> the switches are hooked to the stg digital inputs?
[19:43:45] <MC500> think so would have to check..
[19:43:55] <MC500> its been 6 years since I did it
[19:44:00] <cradek> maybe you should pastebin your hal
[19:44:11] <MC500> but the hal meter trips them
[19:44:25] <cradek> but yeah, like the other drivers, there are stg.in-%02d and stg.in-%02d-not
[19:44:29] <MC500> the hal is un touched stock.. I was just getting ready to start mucking with it
[19:45:41] <MC500> net Xminlim => axis.0.neg-lim-sw-in
[19:45:48] <MC500> how do I chage that to not
[19:45:56] <cradek> what's writing to Xminlim?
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[19:46:34] <MC500> pins whtever on the stg card, its working according to hal meter, just backwards
[19:46:46] <cradek> I mean in hal
[19:46:48] <cradek> let's back up
[19:46:54] <MC500> oh sorry
[19:46:56] <cradek> is this a previously-working config from v2.3?
[19:47:26] <cradek> trying to understand what you mean "untouched stock"
[19:47:31] <MC500> not exatly sure it may not be I had the files backed up so I thought but I lost the working hard drive to failure
[19:47:46] <cradek> ok so you lost your known-good configuration
[19:47:56] <MC500> that would be a safe asumption
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[19:48:10] <cradek> ok so this is an unknown configuration that might or might not have worked with v2.3
[19:49:15] <MC500> yes, but the stock hal config files work with the pins on the card, at least in respect to the limit switches which is where I am stuck, each limit switch toggles True/False in hal meter when I press them
[19:49:31] <cradek> you can share your hal file like this: nopaste < yourhalfilename.hal
[19:50:04] <cradek> ok I'm a little lost. which config are you working from? is it one I have here already and I can look at?
[19:50:45] <MC500> yes it is the stock one that came from emc (/share/examples/whereever)
[19:51:05] <cradek> ok, assuming configs/by_interface/servotogo/stg_io.hal
[19:51:11] <MC500> yes
[19:51:29] <cradek> net Xminlim <= stg.in-02
[19:51:29] <cradek> net Xminlim => axis.0.neg-lim-sw-in
[19:51:37] <MC500> yes
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[19:51:51] <MC500> I want to invert that
[19:51:59] <cradek> in halmeter do you see pins like stg.in-02 and stg.in-02-not
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[19:53:23] <MC500> yes
[19:53:34] <cradek> great
[19:53:38] <cradek> then you see what to do?
[19:54:09] <cradek> hey everybody else: GO BACK UP YOUR WORKING CONFIG
[19:55:16] <anarchos2> heh
[19:55:40] <PetefromTn_> damn..
[19:56:00] <MC500> so it says stg.in-09 and stg.in-09-not prety much most of the pins do I just remove the -not from the stg_io.hal
[19:56:10] <PetefromTn_> just finished running the part program and forgot to enable the final champfer operation in the CamBam program so it did not do it.
[19:56:46] <cradek> MC500: if a certain input is reading backward, just use the other one
[19:57:26] <MC500> oh ok, it looks like I have to add the -not in most cases.. let me try that.. thank you
[19:58:23] <ssi> cradek: I've been putting off backing up the laser configs, and the computer failed to boot yesterday and I about had a panic attack
[19:58:29] <ssi> cradek: I got it back up, and immediately set up a git repo for it :)
[20:00:21] <MC500> ok that worked I guess my backup is fubar, I will go change them all...
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[20:05:26] <Deejay> re
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[20:24:43] <jdh> Connor: you around?
[20:24:50] <Connor> jdh: Yea
[20:24:55] <jdh> magic!
[20:25:14] <Connor> Nope.. Just happen to sit back down at my desk to start work again. Just finished with .unch
[20:25:17] <Connor> lunch
[20:25:19] <jdh> hey, I was finally getting around to installing the base on the g0704
[20:25:49] <Connor> Ah. Cool.
[20:25:50] <jdh> the instructions say it has 32 bolts the same size (casters and frame). Mine has 16 short and 16 long.
[20:26:04] <jdh> any reason to pick one or the other for the frame vs. casters?
[20:26:15] <Connor> Let me look.
[20:27:24] <jdh> err.. .nevermind. The casters won't work with the long ones.
[20:27:28] <Connor> Short for caster, long for frame
[20:27:39] <jdh> after I have already pre-threaded half of the lock-nuts on the short ones
[20:27:40] <Connor> long ones have the extra jam nut.
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[20:28:26] <anarchos2> are you using a g0704 kit?
[20:28:29] <anarchos2> or DIY?
[20:28:54] <SquirrelCZECH_> anyway
[20:28:57] <SquirrelCZECH_> one thing
[20:29:11] <SquirrelCZECH_> I really don't like the drivers that are usually used with repraps
[20:29:16] <SquirrelCZECH_> stepsticks it's called?
[20:29:33] <SquirrelCZECH_> they overhead too easilly and I know there exist drivers with simillar properties but much better cooling
[20:29:37] <SquirrelCZECH_> any tips for shop?
[20:30:02] <Connor> jdh: I'm not sure they're all lock nuts either..
[20:30:18] <Connor> I seam to recall half being nyloc and half standard.
[20:30:40] <jdh> I have 16 nylock
[20:30:49] <jdh> and plain + lock washer for the casters
[20:31:07] <Connor> okay.. yea. nylock on the long ones
[20:31:13] <Connor> as jam nuts.
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[20:31:28] <jdh> did you put the locknuts on 'backwards' so they jam on the wrong side as the instructions show?
[20:31:53] <jdh> looks tacky, but way easier
[20:32:00] <Connor> how do you mean ?
[20:32:12] <Connor> for the long ones ?
[20:32:40] <jdh> the pics show the locknut with wrong side jamming the rail
[20:32:56] <jdh> which is the easy way to put them on.
[20:33:11] <jdh> otherwise you have to thread the bolt through the nylon first before getting to the threads
[20:33:30] <jdh> should have just used plain nuts for all of them
[20:33:51] <Connor> I did it the way they showed.. I forgot to torque down the jam nuts after assembly..
[20:34:17] <Connor> so, they're really not doing anything at the moment. :)
[20:34:40] <Connor> on casters.. I did bolt down instead of up..
[20:35:12] <Connor> flat washer on top, through the plate, and then the caster, then lock washer and then nut.
[20:35:42] <Connor> casters are on the left and right side. swivel in the front.
[20:37:10] <jdh> mine gets moved in/out sideways or diagonal at best so I'm going to put the fixed on the left, swivel on the right
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[20:37:58] <Connor> mine moves fwd/backwards.. and that's IT. no room to turn it.. no room to move it left or right any significant anount.
[20:38:00] <Connor> amount
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[20:38:10] <Connor> I have to crawl under the tray to get to the back of the machine.
[20:38:31] <PetefromTn_> Howzit runnin'?
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[20:50:32] <PetefromTn_> that good eh!
[20:52:25] <Connor> PetefromTn_: You talking to me ?
[20:53:09] <kfoltman> SquirrelCZECH_: stepstick style drivers are pretty much the worst type of stepper drivers I've ever had in my hands
[20:54:02] <anarchos2> lol
[20:55:18] <kfoltman> srsly
[20:55:55] <SquirrelCZECH_> kfoltman: yeah, it's not like I hear it for first time
[20:56:02] <SquirrelCZECH_> kfoltman: any suggestions for replacement?
[20:56:14] <SquirrelCZECH_> at least my board allows me to use external drivers
[20:56:49] <kfoltman> I'm using microstep drivers from makeblock.cc and the worst-of-them-all-but-still-way-better-than-stepsticks cheap Chinese TB6560 boards
[20:57:08] <kfoltman> (the single ones, not the 3-motor combos)
[20:58:14] <kfoltman> I've heard bad things about TB6560 boards getting destroyed easily, but I still haven't managed to break any, and I destroyed 2 or 3 stepstick variants
[20:58:34] <kfoltman> of course, I'm using them way below their specified ratings (which are overly optimistic)
[21:00:24] <SquirrelCZECH_> hmm
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[21:01:04] <SquirrelCZECH_> kfoltman: yeah, that's exactly what I read is usefull :D
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[21:01:35] <SquirrelCZECH_> kfoltman: how do you adjust the power on that greenboard?
[21:01:37] <SquirrelCZECH_> http://www.ebay.com/itm/CNC-Router-1-Axis-Controller-Stepper-Motor-Drivers-TB6560-3A-driver-board-TE-/111290455455?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_2&hash=item19e96d959f
[21:01:55] <kfoltman> SquirrelCZECH_: see those DIP switches and ordinary switches?
[21:02:04] <SquirrelCZECH_> yeah
[21:02:04] <kfoltman> it's for setting current/microstepping
[21:02:13] <kfoltman> and for some other stuff
[21:02:19] <SquirrelCZECH_> ok ok
[21:02:28] <SquirrelCZECH_> so no more of that shitty little things?
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[21:03:02] <kfoltman> I've heard good things about Leadshine (I think) driver boards too, but that's higher priced and only worth it if the rest of the system is good
[21:03:14] <SquirrelCZECH_> well
[21:03:19] <SquirrelCZECH_> you are second refenrece for TB6560
[21:03:25] <SquirrelCZECH_> I think I can buy one now
[21:03:46] <Connor> http://www.automationtechnologiesinc.com/products-page/kl-stepper-drivers
[21:04:01] <Connor> http://www.automationtechnologiesinc.com/products-page/digital-stepper-motor-driver
[21:04:14] <Connor> very nice 3 axis.. http://www.automationtechnologiesinc.com/products-page/digital-stepper-motor-driver/3-axis-dsp-based-digital-stepper-drive-max-60-vdc-6-0a
[21:05:02] <SquirrelCZECH_> nah
[21:05:05] <SquirrelCZECH_> Connor: looks expensive a bit
[21:05:17] <SquirrelCZECH_> yeah
[21:05:20] <SquirrelCZECH_> that's one thing I noticed
[21:05:22] <SquirrelCZECH_> in reprap world
[21:05:25] <Connor> SquirrelCZECH_: VERY nice.. reliable.
[21:05:31] <Connor> but, these are for larger machines..
[21:05:40] <SquirrelCZECH_> it's common that the controller is connected only via USB
[21:05:43] <SquirrelCZECH_> and generates the pulses
[21:05:43] <Connor> if your talking 3d printers or small machines.. then mayne too much.
[21:05:51] <SquirrelCZECH_> while in cnc I see none of this approach
[21:05:53] <SquirrelCZECH_> why so?
[21:06:33] <Connor> Real Time control. on the USB stuff.. the code is off loaded to a motion controller or micro controller.
[21:06:36] <Connor> and it just runs.
[21:06:40] <kfoltman> SquirrelCZECH_: my current CNC controller is arduino running grbl, hoping to upgrade to beaglebone running machinekit
[21:06:57] <Connor> with CNC.. the computer IS the controller.. and it stays in the loop.. which requires real time OS.. USB isn't real time
[21:07:12] <SquirrelCZECH_> Connor: yeah
[21:07:17] <SquirrelCZECH_> Connor: that's what I understand
[21:07:19] <SquirrelCZECH_> but reason?
[21:07:36] <SquirrelCZECH_> Connor: why it's bad to pass off the controlling onto a chip?
[21:07:50] <kfoltman> SquirrelCZECH_: it's not *bad*, it's just limiting
[21:08:10] <SquirrelCZECH_> well
[21:08:13] <Connor> More control. can do tons of stuff in LinuxCNC without having to have custom code written for the microcontroller.
[21:08:24] <SquirrelCZECH_> I am not concerned about reprap, it's ok just as is
[21:08:29] <SquirrelCZECH_> but I am thinking about building CNC machine
[21:08:33] <SquirrelCZECH_> (PCB is main goal)
[21:08:44] <SquirrelCZECH_> and... I do not want old big computer sticking around
[21:08:48] <kfoltman> SquirrelCZECH_: you can use grbl just to test the mechanics etc.
[21:08:50] <SquirrelCZECH_> and I like the idea of raspberrys, cubieboards etc...
[21:09:01] <kfoltman> SquirrelCZECH_: and then think of upgrading
[21:09:24] <Connor> I don't think a atom base PC as a big computer..
[21:09:35] <SquirrelCZECH_> not every atom have LTP
[21:09:39] <SquirrelCZECH_> but yeah, it;s option
[21:09:44] <SquirrelCZECH_> Connor: but expensive compared to raspberry :D
[21:09:50] <Connor> No, put just about all of them have a PCI slot.
[21:10:04] <Connor> http://www.ivdc.com/cnc/cnc8.jpg
[21:10:30] <Connor> my CNC router. 12" x 18" build envelope, 25" x 36" foot print. PC is in the side of it..
[21:13:03] <SquirrelCZECH_> looks nice
[21:13:10] * SquirrelCZECH_ likes this construction http://www.c-n-c.cz/download/file.php?id=37460&mode=view
[21:15:03] <SquirrelCZECH_> kfoltman: you want to use that machinekit to run CNC?
[21:15:07] <SquirrelCZECH_> looks interesting
[21:15:23] <Connor> bottom rails need to be rotated 90 degrees so the split on the blocks are facing towards each other.
[21:15:57] <zeeshan|2> SquirrelCZECH_:
[21:16:00] <zeeshan|2> gimme those solidworks files
[21:16:00] <zeeshan|2> !
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[21:18:06] <SquirrelCZECH_> zeeshan|2: sorry, not mine, just found it on the internests
[21:18:10] <SquirrelCZECH_> Connor: is it better?
[21:18:17] <SquirrelCZECH_> I was only curious about it if it's better or not
[21:18:17] <zeeshan|2> o
[21:18:44] <SquirrelCZECH_> Connor: what's the reasoing if I may ask?
[21:19:06] <Connor> the gantry can lift the front or back blocks up. and cause the split rail blocks to separate a bit.
[21:19:58] <Connor> if you rotate it so the splits oppose each other.. then you have full support top and bottom.. and left-to-right the opposite block supports the "weak" one.
[21:20:18] <SquirrelCZECH_> I see
[21:20:49] <Connor> that, or you have a much wider base on the gantry.. which most people don't do because it costs them travel.
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[21:23:14] <SquirrelCZECH_> well
[21:23:19] <SquirrelCZECH_> I would go for wider base anyway
[21:23:31] <Connor> If you making something for doing PCB's.
[21:23:41] <Connor> probably better to have moving table and fixed gantry
[21:24:15] <SquirrelCZECH_> why?
[21:24:21] <SquirrelCZECH_> Connor: you mean moving table on X?
[21:24:28] <SquirrelCZECH_> oh, it's more like Y, sorry
[21:25:31] <Connor> Typically better tolerances on fixed gantry. Also faster.. Gantries why more.. and can cause you to lower acceleration rate down.
[21:25:41] <Connor> weight more.
[21:25:43] <Connor> Ugg..
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[21:26:13] <Connor> More mass = slow acceleration, otherwise your gantry is herky-jerky.
[21:26:26] <Connor> not good when doing small detail work.. like PCB.
[21:26:37] <SquirrelCZECH_> hmm
[21:26:40] <jdh> that just sucked
[21:26:48] <SquirrelCZECH_> well that was my logic for moving ganry
[21:26:55] <SquirrelCZECH_> Connor: because, you see that table is big :D
[21:27:09] <Connor> I've come to the realization, correct size of machine for the size of application.
[21:27:12] <SquirrelCZECH_> so I supposed it would weight more
[21:27:32] <Connor> SquirrelCZECH_: Now, if your machine is THAT big.. then yes.. moving gantry.. but.. one for typical PCB proto typing
[21:27:38] <Connor> would be smaller..
[21:27:42] <SquirrelCZECH_> oh, I see
[21:27:51] <Connor> jdh: ? What happened
[21:28:19] <jdh> O
[21:28:46] <jdh> I'm old. I've been sitting on my garage floor screwing with all these bolts
[21:29:01] <jdh> it's the old part that sucks
[21:29:24] <Connor> Oh. Yes. hard on the a$$, the legs, the knees and the back.
[21:29:44] <jdh> yeah, that.
[21:30:09] <Connor> I use a lid to a 5 gallon bucket when I sit on the concrete so I can slide around.
[21:30:11] <jdh> and I've biked a couple hundred miles in the last week and was already sore.
[21:30:21] <Connor> Ouch
[21:30:25] <jdh> I was sitting in the box the stand came in
[21:30:39] <Connor> stand ? or base ?
[21:30:43] <jdh> base
[21:31:11] <jdh> I'm going to ignore the directions and put teh casters on, then tilt the mil and slip them in.
[21:31:39] <Connor> When I was mounting that.. http://www.ivdc.com/cnc/mill_05_19_14_02.jpg I was on the ground allot.. that lid help a ton.. but man was I sore..
[21:31:56] <jdh> no way I'm going to crawl around on the floor for hours trying to bolt the casters on after the fact.
[21:32:44] <Connor> yea. I did the same.. I assembled everything into two halves.. and still ended up having to turn the cabinet over and mount the base that way.. It needed a few shims.
[21:32:59] <jdh> I'm not taking the mill off the stand
[21:33:18] <Connor> I had to because I was mounting the chip tray at the same time.
[21:35:20] <SquirrelCZECH_> Connor: looks nice
[21:37:19] <Connor> was a major after thought.
[21:37:28] <Connor> I've been lucky in my after thoughts..
[21:37:43] <Connor> on the router.. the PC going into the on the side. was a happy after thought..
[21:38:06] <Connor> http://www.ivdc.com/cnc/cnc3.jpg
[21:38:28] <Connor> that's how I had it.. I planned on components on the left side.. but.. not a entire Atom PC..
[21:38:59] <Connor> wasn't until after I got the thing mostly assembled and measured that I found that the space for the PC was EXACTLY right.
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[21:39:33] <SquirrelCZECH_> :D :D
[21:39:54] <Connor> The router was meant to be both a Router, and a 3D printer.. but.. as I stated before.. I've learned, the right machine for the right job..
[21:40:11] <Connor> gantry too much mass.. and only has a Z height of 4.5"
[21:41:41] <Deejay> gn8
[21:41:42] <Connor> jdh: Thoughts on using AIR fittings for coolant? I purchased 2 90 degree swivel 1/4 NPT fittings.. made out of brass.. my only concern is they use rubber O rings for the seal.
[21:41:58] <Connor> Designing a servo controlled coolant nozzle.
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[21:42:05] <SquirrelCZECH_> yeah
[21:42:14] <SquirrelCZECH_> CNC and 3D printing is not happy on same machine
[21:42:32] <Connor> concern is the coolant will mess up the O rings, and / or the continues friction will cause the O rings to wear..
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[21:47:48] <kfoltman> ok im off BYE
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[21:53:40] <zeeshan|2> anyone here turn offset dowels?
[21:54:00] <CaptHindsight> anyone have a favorite electric clutch for shafts (6-8mm) on nema23 steppers?
[21:54:37] <zeeshan|2> CaptHindsight:
[21:54:42] <zeeshan|2> i used an ac compressor clutch
[21:54:46] <zeeshan|2> on a 1hp motor before
[21:54:46] <zeeshan|2> lol
[21:54:52] <zeeshan|2> it exploded on my face
[21:55:03] <zeeshan|2> because the two surfaces werent running true
[21:55:07] <zeeshan|2> and wobbling
[21:55:15] <zeeshan|2> it was pretty intense.
[21:55:28] <CaptHindsight> I'll make a note of that for pranks and future X customers
[21:55:28] <zeeshan|2> it worked great for the 1 hour i used the machine for
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[21:56:19] <CaptHindsight> zeeshan|2: was it undersized or did you just get a bad one?
[21:57:35] <zeeshan|2> neither
[21:57:50] <zeeshan|2> the bore of the clutch can't have any play in it
[21:58:22] <zeeshan|2> like if its a 1" haft, you gotta make the bore .9985"
[21:58:30] <zeeshan|2> i made it 1.005"
[21:58:32] <zeeshan|2> for some clearance
[21:58:42] <zeeshan|2> and the same for the other side of the mating plate
[21:59:06] <zeeshan|2> and i was relying on just a set screw on a key to hold em in place
[21:59:18] <zeeshan|2> if iwere to do it again
[21:59:19] <zeeshan|2> i'd press fit it
[21:59:23] <zeeshan|2> and face the surfaces
[21:59:26] <zeeshan|2> and i think it'd work great
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[22:01:16] <CaptHindsight> http://www.automation4less.com/servobrake.htm
[22:01:29] <CaptHindsight> http://www.electromate.com/products/series.php?&series_id=100229
[22:04:52] <SquirrelCZECH_> hmm
[22:05:08] <SquirrelCZECH_> anyway buyed these from ebay ? http://www.ebay.com/itm/CNC-Router-1-Axis-Controller-Stepper-Motor-Drivers-TB6560-3A-driver-board-TE-/111290455455?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_2&hash=item19e96d959f
[22:05:11] <SquirrelCZECH_> (exactly this link)
[22:05:13] <CaptHindsight> http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-AC-COMPRESSOR-CLUTCH-SD7H15-125MM-PV6-12V-3EYE-/290639544712 if you have the space for them
[22:05:19] * SquirrelCZECH_ yet doesn't believe ebay
[22:06:29] <CaptHindsight> TB6560AHQ drives, I don't care for them. Others here use them all the time
[22:07:55] <SquirrelCZECH_> hmm
[22:08:11] * SquirrelCZECH_ thinks about buying one and trying
[22:09:25] <CaptHindsight> I can send you one that lasted 2 weeks to try :)
[22:09:38] <SquirrelCZECH_> what? :D
[22:10:30] <SquirrelCZECH_> WOW
[22:10:41] <SquirrelCZECH_> microstepping up to 25000 steps/revol ?
[22:10:43] <SquirrelCZECH_> interesting
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[22:11:10] <Tom_itx> ones with DSP work better
[22:11:16] <SquirrelCZECH_> 63 dollars
[22:11:21] <SquirrelCZECH_> 4.2A
[22:11:30] <SquirrelCZECH_> Tom_itx: DSP?
[22:11:42] <Tom_itx> digital signal processor
[22:12:13] <SquirrelCZECH_> 87$ -> 5.2A, 51200 steps/revolt
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[22:12:58] <anarchos2> i have the 4.2A DSP drivers
[22:13:05] <anarchos2> from leadshine (same as kelling)
[22:13:08] <SquirrelCZECH_> yeah
[22:13:11] <SquirrelCZECH_> 1/256 steps
[22:13:39] <SquirrelCZECH_> anarchos2: yeah, it's leadshine
[22:13:55] <SquirrelCZECH_> M752
[22:14:02] <SquirrelCZECH_> that would be perfect for my Z axis on reprap
[22:14:09] <SquirrelCZECH_> but I suppose it's overshooting a bit O:)
[22:14:43] <SquirrelCZECH_> but I could switch from M5 threaded rod to something better and I would get the resolution from it
[22:14:56] <SquirrelCZECH_> how bad idea is putting two motors on one driver?
[22:17:03] <CaptHindsight> SquirrelCZECH_: http://www.micromo.com/microstepping-myths-and-realities
[22:17:14] <CaptHindsight> you to Tom_itx
[22:17:21] <CaptHindsight> :)
[22:18:29] <anarchos2> i have the DM442 (kelling 4042D)
[22:18:49] <anarchos2> $60 inc. ship from china/ebay
[22:19:52] <CaptHindsight> I drove all the way to keiling and back to day ... in the rain
[22:19:56] <SquirrelCZECH_> oh, I see
[22:20:02] <SquirrelCZECH_> CaptHindsight: hmm
[22:20:08] * SquirrelCZECH_ is thinking
[22:20:22] <SquirrelCZECH_> two TB6560 for each motor
[22:20:30] <SquirrelCZECH_> or one M752 for much higher price?
[22:20:31] <CaptHindsight> same cloud, both directions, only few sq miles of rain
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[22:20:44] <anarchos2> lol
[22:21:07] <SquirrelCZECH_> on the other hand, something as M752 sounds s overkill for Prusa i3
[22:22:53] <CaptHindsight> two steppers on one drive? in series or parallel?
[22:23:03] <SquirrelCZECH_> parallel
[22:23:44] <CaptHindsight> same wiring size and distance from the drve?
[22:23:48] <SquirrelCZECH_> yep
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[22:24:45] <CaptHindsight> on opposite sides of a gantry?
[22:25:22] <SquirrelCZECH_> yep, it's Prusa i3 construction
[22:26:11] <CaptHindsight> I use linear servos in parallel with an extremely rigid connection between them
[22:26:32] <SquirrelCZECH_> well
[22:26:39] <SquirrelCZECH_> I ordered one chinese for testing :)
[22:28:38] <CaptHindsight> http://imagebin.ca/v/1VNCUylZ8SKM an example
[22:29:08] <SquirrelCZECH_> looks nice :)
[22:29:33] <SquirrelCZECH_> CaptHindsight: are these ... black folding things to keep rails clean expensive?
[22:29:46] * SquirrelCZECH_ saw them only on profi machines so far
[22:29:49] <SquirrelCZECH_> but I like that idea
[22:30:07] <CaptHindsight> they keep things out of the servos and bearings
[22:30:14] <SquirrelCZECH_> yeah
[22:30:18] <SquirrelCZECH_> that's why I like the idea :D
[22:31:13] <CaptHindsight> http://www.ebay.com/itm/310663941283 the motors looks like this
[22:33:19] <SquirrelCZECH_> wow
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[22:34:12] <MC500> is hal_config in 2.6? I dont see it via the command line and it wont launch from tkemc
[22:45:52] <SquirrelCZECH_> hmm
[22:45:53] <SquirrelCZECH_> true
[22:46:12] <SquirrelCZECH_> 85% for mini-atx with intel processor
[22:47:46] <SquirrelCZECH_> yeah
[22:47:55] <SquirrelCZECH_> can someone point me?
[22:48:10] <SquirrelCZECH_> How should I figure out the torgue and properties of motor I want?
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[22:48:29] <SquirrelCZECH_> given that I've designed the construction of CNC machine and now have to pick the motors and drivers
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[22:52:07] <tehcereal> is there a way to stop the milling and then resume tomorrow for example
[22:53:07] <tehcereal> i know for the pause button
[22:53:43] <tehcereal> but for that to work i must have my pc running
[22:53:48] <tehcereal> all the time or ?
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[23:02:42] <CaptHindsight> SquirrelCZECH_: http://machinedesign.com/news/motor-sizing-made-easy
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[23:03:31] <CaptHindsight> http://machinedesign.com/motorsdrives/top-10-tips-specifying-stepper-drives
[23:04:24] <CaptHindsight> http://users.ece.utexas.edu/~valvano/Datasheets/StepperSelection.pdf
[23:05:28] <SquirrelCZECH_> thanks a lot!
[23:06:35] <CaptHindsight> http://www.engineering.com/ProductShowcase/StepperMotors.aspx
[23:07:10] <CaptHindsight> with a cute video and a cutie in the video
[23:08:52] <CaptHindsight> http://www.orientalmotor.com/support/motor-sizing.html
[23:10:59] <CaptHindsight> http://www.daycounter.com/Calculators/Stepper-Motor-Calculator.phtml
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