#linuxcnc | Logs for 2014-07-23

[00:00:27] <XXCoder1> syyl_: robot arm?
[00:00:38] <syyl_> yes
[00:00:43] <XXCoder1> cool
[00:00:52] <CaptHindsight> ssi: did you give up on the parker servos?
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[00:01:07] <syyl_> looked kinda flimsy
[00:01:09] <XXCoder1> think robot arm cnc with "5th axis" rotation of stock would make for amazing cnc
[00:01:14] <ssi> CaptHindsight: no I just haven't gotten to them yet
[00:01:19] <syyl_> even as it was a pretty massive kuka
[00:01:24] <ssi> they're not going on the laser table, waaaay too big for that
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[00:04:02] <ssi> CaptHindsight: i'm gonna have to look up the parts for the funky front panel connectors on the geminis and order them
[00:04:20] <syyl_> i want that turbine rear axle :(
[00:04:26] <ssi> you and me both, buddy
[00:04:38] <XXCoder1> cnc it
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[00:04:43] <syyl_> hmm
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[00:04:53] <syyl_> of want also a turbine driven front axle
[00:05:10] <XXCoder1> nahh 4 wheels all turbine driven lol
[00:05:15] <syyl_> :D
[00:05:54] <XXCoder1> I'd name that car fearnocop because it'd be too damn fast
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[00:06:26] <syyl_> or you could gear it down massively
[00:06:32] <syyl_> and buld a nice rock crawler ;)
[00:07:36] <CaptHindsight> ssi: might be AMP CHAMP .050 Series II 2-175677-7
[00:08:44] <CaptHindsight> ssi: and the 2-175677-4 for the 26 pin
[00:09:11] <CaptHindsight> backshells are sold separately
[00:10:17] <CaptHindsight> there are also 26 pin and 50 pin breakout connectors/modules GC-26 and GC-50
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[00:17:12] <ssi> looks about right
[00:17:19] <ssi> also looks hard to get in single qty :/
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[00:50:54] <fenugrec> Hi guys; I'm setting up a system that talks to a PLC via Modbus for a lot of stuff. One of these things is a kind of keep-alive handshake : PLC sends 1, PC responds with 1; PLC sends 0, PC responds with 0. This needs to happen at least every 500ms. Am I better of doing this in CL or with the ModbusToHal userspace module ?
[00:51:51] <jdh> CL would be pretty trivial
[00:52:42] <jdh> do both sides need to detect loss?
[00:52:50] <fenugrec> yeah, only thing keeping me back is in the docs they say "modbus is not fully finished" etc..
[00:53:18] <jdh> that will be true regardless of doing it in CL or HAL
[00:54:14] <fenugrec> as it is, the PLC does the timing (like a 2-state watchdog) and on expiry, stops the spindle, coolant and toolchanger.
[00:54:31] <fenugrec> I'm considering maybe wiring the stepper driver's Enable signal to the PLC as well
[00:55:06] <fenugrec> and when it expires, one modbus register is set to 1 ("Re-sync required")
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[00:55:31] <fenugrec> it's not terribly robust but will guard against a lot of incidents
[00:55:39] <jdh> and perhaps induce others.
[00:55:46] <jdh> like, crashing a part for a comm error
[00:57:02] <jdh> serial or ethernet?
[00:57:52] <fenugrec> rs232 RTU. I'm thinking how any comm error can be safely handled... The spindle definitely needs to be stopped
[00:59:54] <jdh> 5 or 6 years ago I build libmodbus on a VMS system. The code was all clean and compiled nicely. It's been running ever since then (TCP though)
[01:00:35] <fenugrec> and the axes too. How would you handle comm errors ?
[01:01:04] <jdh> loss of handshake is loss, regardless of reason?
[01:02:07] <fenugrec> yes
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[01:04:13] <fenugrec> maybe "watchdog" would be a better term for what the PLC is doing. In fact, I'm wondering what's the advantage of a ping/pong exchange
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[01:05:49] <zeeshan> holesaw success
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[01:06:17] <ssi> https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BtMM-PhIEAAm7ml.jpg:large
[01:06:21] <ssi> cable chain restraint works
[01:06:27] <ssi> but I'm gonna have to add two more of them to the left
[01:06:28] <zeeshan> nice
[01:06:34] <zeeshan> where do you buy that stuff?
[01:06:36] <zeeshan> is it expensive?
[01:06:38] <ssi> what, the cable chain?
[01:06:42] <zeeshan> yea
[01:06:46] <jdh> I usually add a watchdog to computer/PLC systems. one side sets a bit, the other resets... if it stays set, it triggers
[01:06:48] <ssi> it's very expensive retail, I got this on ebay
[01:06:58] <zeeshan> how much :D
[01:07:04] <ssi> I had to weld that little u shaped "hat" on there to keep it from looping up too high
[01:07:08] <ssi> $10 per 40" lenght
[01:07:14] <zeeshan> how much is retail
[01:07:17] <zeeshan> like 300?
[01:07:17] <zeeshan> :p
[01:07:21] <ssi> $19/ft I think?
[01:07:24] <zeeshan> oh
[01:07:24] <fenugrec> jdh: I'd show you my ladder, only I would need to reboot to Win to take a screenshot
[01:07:47] <fenugrec> jdh: it sounds a lot like what you describe. Hang on, I have a second computa
[01:07:50] <zeeshan> http://i.imgur.com/Anc38ZE.jpg
[01:07:55] <humble_sea_bass> http://irclo.gr/i/152924/1406029827482.gif
[01:08:11] <ssi> wait no the closed stuff is way more
[01:08:13] <ssi> $33/ft?
[01:08:14] <ssi> jesus
[01:08:25] <zeeshan> damn
[01:08:38] <humble_sea_bass> http://irclo.gr/i/152923/1406029767060.gif
[01:08:49] <zeeshan> http://i.imgur.com/dQ7zvSh.jpg
[01:08:54] <zeeshan> ^ fancy stencil
[01:08:54] <jdh> I got a cheap HF, it broke on the last hole.
[01:09:03] <zeeshan> for marking specimens/configuring cameras
[01:09:03] <jdh> they gave me a new one, still haven't used it.
[01:09:38] <jdh> HF punch set
[01:09:46] <humble_sea_bass> THAT STENCIL LOOKS LIKE MY old lettering guide
[01:09:54] <zeeshan> humble_sea_bass: pics
[01:10:07] <zeeshan> =D
[01:10:25] <jdh> did you have an electric eraser too, or did that come later?
[01:10:44] <humble_sea_bass> http://www.amazon.com/Alvin-L666-Lettering-Guide-L-666/dp/B001DNAHRO
[01:10:47] <ssi> no I'm sorry i misread
[01:10:59] <humble_sea_bass> cool ppl use rubber steadler erasers
[01:11:01] <ssi> $12.47/ft
[01:11:03] <humble_sea_bass> all else is piss
[01:11:16] <ssi> still too damn much
[01:11:25] <zeeshan> is it a bunch of plastic links
[01:11:26] <zeeshan> or just metal
[01:11:32] <ssi> it's all plastic
[01:11:34] <zeeshan> oh
[01:11:48] <zeeshan> you shoulda 3d printed one
[01:11:48] <zeeshan> :D
[01:11:51] <ssi> I did
[01:11:54] <zeeshan> haha
[01:11:55] <ssi> it was just taking too long
[01:11:56] <zeeshan> nice.
[01:12:06] <ssi> and the injection molded stuff snaps together better
[01:12:26] <PCW> funny thing is the times via the USB/Enet adapter are longer but theres less jitter than via the 8111 direct
[01:12:45] <PCW> 2KHz still ticking along
[01:13:29] <PCW> oops wrong window
[01:16:13] <ssi> gah I have to go back downstairs and weld up two more of these and my motivates are lacking
[01:16:29] <fenugrec> jdh: http://imgbin.org/index.php?page=image&id=18490
[01:17:04] <fenugrec> R208 is set by the PC
[01:18:10] <fenugrec> R12 is the echo back to PC. But it doesn't matter if the PC sends the right ping or pong in sequence... I could hook up a signal generator at >2Hz and it would stay handshaked
[01:18:55] <jdh> got a spare digital out on the PC?
[01:19:12] <fenugrec> a few on the LPT port yeah
[01:19:40] <jdh> run one to the PLC
[01:19:57] <fenugrec> eee pins on the PLC are running scarce
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[01:22:10] <fenugrec> The guy that did the retrofit run the limit switches through Modbus. I find that mental, but it means I need to supervise the modbus link
[01:22:26] <fenugrec> in any case.
[01:22:38] <jdh> I ran across some wireless limit switches today
[01:22:44] <fenugrec> !
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[01:27:41] <fenugrec> So, if there's a comm error I'm pretty much screwed anyway. Stopping the axes and spindle seems to be the only safe behavior
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[01:28:25] <fenugrec> it's going to happen in CL then
[01:31:25] <jdh> put mostly the same logic in CL
[01:31:51] <fenugrec> (yay ! My new-old 10GB HDD is behaving now. 12us max jitter p-)))
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[01:35:29] <XXCoder1> http://www.instructables.com/id/6-AXIS-ROBOTIC-ARM/
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[01:37:50] <fenugrec> uh... modbus rs232 settings in CL are hardcoded as 8N1 ??
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[01:43:55] <XXCoder1> ah found that kura machine https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UwzwzobO5rs
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[01:51:54] * fenugrec runs, but will live to fight another day !
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[01:52:09] XXCoder2 is now known as XXCoder
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[02:56:49] <ssi> need a file :/
[02:57:21] <tjb1> Free iphone 5 case from Fluke - http://en-us.fluke.com/products/contests-and-promotions/connect-app-and-free-case.html?utm_source=FACEBOOK&utm_medium=POST&utm_content=AD&utm_campaign=FCPROMOCASE
[02:59:29] <XXCoder> "yay"
[02:59:50] <tjb1> It's free
[02:59:57] <tjb1> Take or leave, just informing :)
[03:00:06] <XXCoder> "take"
[03:00:09] <XXCoder> ;)
[03:00:27] <ssi> cute
[03:00:46] <zeeshan> thank u
[03:00:52] <XXCoder> I know no iphone owner nerd enough want it
[03:01:03] <XXCoder> or engineer enough
[03:01:04] <XXCoder> whatever
[03:01:09] <ssi> I would want it
[03:01:10] <ssi> but I have a 5s
[03:01:11] <ssi> er
[03:01:12] <ssi> 4s
[03:01:24] <tjb1> They said on facebook they were looking to add more phones
[03:01:25] <XXCoder> I has epic 4g android phone lol
[03:01:26] <jdh> buy a new phone for it
[03:01:30] <XXCoder> its pushing 4 years old
[03:01:42] <zeeshan> i have a 4s and 5s
[03:01:46] <zeeshan> i still use the 4s
[03:01:51] <zeeshan> fak the 5s gayness
[03:01:58] <zeeshan> its too big to fit in my pocket
[03:02:01] <zeeshan> whyd they make it bigger
[03:02:01] <tjb1> I'm waiting for 6 :)
[03:02:08] <XXCoder> 5s = shit editiomn. 5c = china edition
[03:02:18] <XXCoder> which means pretty much same thing
[03:02:48] <tjb1> Sapphire glass front on 6 supposedly
[03:03:07] <XXCoder> article says its likely sapphire on glass
[03:03:16] <ssi> i'm also waiting for 6
[03:03:24] <ssi> I hope it's sapphire front
[03:03:25] <zeeshan> are they making it smaller?
[03:03:27] <ssi> because i own stock in the company that makes it
[03:03:35] <ssi> the sapphire glass I mean
[03:03:37] <XXCoder> injectable iphone :P
[03:04:02] <tjb1> https://www.dropbox.com/s/9mxgik8n22mu9ln/2014-07-22%2022.09.57.jpg ;)
[03:04:42] <XXCoder> drat no funny picture on injectable iphone
[03:04:46] <XXCoder> quick someone make one
[03:05:53] <tjb1> The start of new control case
[03:06:00] <XXCoder> cool
[03:06:37] <tjb1> http://www.linuxcnc.org/index.php/english/forum/30-cnc-machines/25901-diy-cnc-plasma-table-lots-of-pictures
[03:07:03] <ssi> am I missing something, or is there only one field ground terminal on the whole 7i76?
[03:07:07] <jdh> no a/c vent?
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[03:09:10] <PetefromTn_> Damn program was doing so good right up until I forgot to put a high enough clearance plain for the bolt hold downs to clear the cutter. I was running it slow the first time so It was no drama but now I gotta tweak the program.
[03:09:30] <ssi> woops
[03:09:44] <XXCoder> yeah
[03:09:47] <PetefromTn_> Been doing pretty good lately with first time dry runs working correctly.
[03:09:58] <PetefromTn_> no crash or anything.
[03:10:06] <zeeshan> are you writing the code by hand?
[03:10:09] <PetefromTn_> I had the rapids turned way down like I do on any virgin code.
[03:10:12] <PetefromTn_> hell no.
[03:10:21] <zeeshan> how did you not catch the crash then?
[03:10:27] <PetefromTn_> it ALMOST Cleared...
[03:10:34] <PetefromTn_> there was no crash....
[03:10:44] <zeeshan> whats the problem then
[03:10:50] <tjb1> new bolt type?
[03:10:56] <XXCoder> so your model and realty almost was same, just bolt is bit higher?
[03:10:58] <tjb1> special clearance bolt?
[03:11:01] <XXCoder> *real bolt
[03:11:02] <PetefromTn_> like I said I just put too low a clearance plain and the cutter would have crashed had I not been careful.
[03:11:15] <zeeshan> so
[03:11:17] <zeeshan> it was gonna crash
[03:11:21] <zeeshan> why did your cam software not pick that up
[03:11:22] <PetefromTn_> sure.
[03:11:26] <zeeshan> when generating the tool path
[03:11:32] <PetefromTn_> but it didn't because of my methods.
[03:11:54] <PetefromTn_> pick what up?
[03:12:03] <PetefromTn_> I just put too low a clearance plane.
[03:12:05] <zeeshan> the fact that the tool path was crossing through your work piece
[03:12:15] <zeeshan> that doesnt matter
[03:12:19] <PetefromTn_> it was not crossing thru workpiece just hold downs.
[03:12:35] <zeeshan> oh
[03:12:40] <zeeshan> you dont put your hole downs in the model?
[03:12:43] <zeeshan> *hold
[03:12:50] <PetefromTn_> It is my fault for not putting in an adequate clearance plane number.
[03:13:38] <PetefromTn_> not for this it is just a simple plate but I clamp it first on the edges, spot drill, drill, then mill the holes and counterbores. then I bolt thru the same holes into the fixture.
[03:14:02] <zeeshan> i dunno. i personally like to throw in everything
[03:14:05] <zeeshan> that way theres no suprises
[03:14:11] <zeeshan> (in the assembly)
[03:14:19] <PetefromTn_> this is not some fancy 3d nor is it an assembly.
[03:14:29] <PetefromTn_> the drawing was a simple DXF.
[03:14:34] <PetefromTn_> It is just a plate man.
[03:14:45] <zeeshan> i do everything in 3rd :D
[03:14:48] <zeeshan> *3D
[03:15:06] <PetefromTn_> simple as hell but I just missed that clearance setting on one of the machining ops.
[03:15:09] <zeeshan> like technically the lathe is a 2d process
[03:15:17] <PetefromTn_> Other than that it is perfect so far.
[03:15:19] <zeeshan> but i view it in 3d so i can see the chuck jaws
[03:15:26] <zeeshan> and live center
[03:15:43] <zeeshan> well the live center is also 2d :P
[03:15:47] <zeeshan> but mainly chuck
[03:15:48] <PetefromTn_> I also have been trying to get in the habit of naming the operations so I can read it in the code window.
[03:16:09] <PetefromTn_> like telling me what is going on during the M0 I put in there and what to do so I don't forget anything.
[03:16:40] <zeeshan> yea i setup my post processor to tell me "tool information" "operation type"
[03:16:45] <PetefromTn_> I also put in notes to myself now in each program so when I go back and make another one a couple months down the road I don't have to try to remember everything.
[03:16:47] <zeeshan> and "spindle speed + feed"
[03:17:03] <zeeshan> cause it gets hard to diaognose otherwise
[03:17:13] <PetefromTn_> yeah mine has all that already.. I am talking about MY operations and things I have to do during the run.
[03:17:32] <PetefromTn_> like moving placing or removing clamps etc.
[03:17:47] <PetefromTn_> how to locate something or touch off something. etc.
[03:18:36] <PetefromTn_> I have made a bunch of nice parts on the machine over the last couple months and like right now I got an order from some Guys in France for some of the parts I made a couple months ago. I need to annotate what I did so I can recreate it without screwups.
[03:19:40] <PetefromTn_> Especially with those custom scope riser rails. There are four different styles of the same basic rail now and it got real easy to mess up between them for setups and things even tho they are almost identical really.
[03:21:04] <PetefromTn_> Well I think I got it sorted now. gotta get back out there and try to finish this part. Gotta make the top plate tomorrow which is the same but different LOL.
[03:21:49] <zeeshan> :D
[03:21:52] <PetefromTn_> Then I can finally take this prototype to the customer and HOPEFULLY he will order a bunch of em'... CROSSES FINGERS.
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[03:36:40] <ssi> hopefully :)
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[03:52:15] <XXCoder> PetefromTn_: good luck mam
[03:52:17] <XXCoder> man
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[04:05:23] <XXCoder> jeeeeeeeez overkill http://hackaday.io/project/1789
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[04:29:56] <PetefromTn_> Well I managed to get that prototype machined tonight. Looks pretty nice so far.
[04:30:20] <PetefromTn_> Tomorrow I will try to machine the top mating plate and we then I can make the standoffs and we are in Bidness...
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[04:39:15] <PetefromTn_> http://imgur.com/3hmy9Qb,TTr07cl
[04:39:40] <PetefromTn_> http://imgur.com/3hmy9Qb,TTr07cl#1
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[04:39:55] <ssi> nice
[04:40:50] <PetefromTn_> yeah I realized that I did not need the tabs for it after I got it going. I may make another one tomorrow without the tabs beacuse they kinda mark the workpiece a touch at both sides.
[04:41:15] <PetefromTn_> Champfers came out nice I think.
[04:41:25] <zeeshan> looks nice
[04:41:25] <zeeshan> :D
[04:41:32] <PetefromTn_> does not look like much but it has been an all day thing LOL..
[04:42:23] <PetefromTn_> machine worked perfectly all day which is nice..
[04:42:40] <PetefromTn_> I remember with my mach3 RF45 I never knew what was gonna happen next LOL.
[04:42:51] <PetefromTn_> Nice to be able to rely on something and just use it to make parts.
[04:43:49] <zeeshan> why did your rf45 worry you
[04:43:58] <PetefromTn_> so far LinuxCNC is DEAD reliable in this machine. No errors, screwups, nothing but accurate repeatable performance. I am so glad I decided to gut this pig and start over with LinuxCNC.
[04:44:23] <PetefromTn_> It ran with Mach3 and often it would just up and do wierd shit at the drop of a hat for no particular reason.
[04:44:35] <zeeshan> doh
[04:45:06] <PetefromTn_> It aslo had some issues with noise from the VFD for awhile that was troublesome until I went Modbus with the damn thing. That fixed a lot of issues.
[04:46:23] <PetefromTn_> LinuxCNC just feels more like a PRO control than mach3 ever did to me. Its like when I press a button I can expect an immediate response and more importantly the correct one LOL.
[04:48:07] <PetefromTn_> Well I gotta get up early because I have not been able to get my new Bronco registered yet so when I need a vehicle I gotta take my wife to work so I can use her truck that day. Not gonna bother registering it until I fix the fuel leak at the tank. Need to order a new one.
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[04:49:02] <ssi> jesus
[04:49:07] <ssi> some days I just can't win
[04:49:32] <PetefromTn_> why what happened now man?
[04:49:45] <ssi> tryin to dial in motion
[04:49:54] <ssi> when I walk away from the machine,
[04:50:03] <ssi> the motors start screaming at high pitch/volume, and the computer reboots
[04:50:06] <ssi> it's getting more frequent
[04:50:15] <ssi> now the computer won't come back up
[04:50:23] <ssi> and to add insult to injury, my meter won't turn ot
[04:50:24] <ssi> on
[04:50:25] <PetefromTn_> Ooh that does not sound too good.
[04:50:48] <ssi> agreed
[04:51:05] <ssi> I really hope i don't have to swap these motors back out
[04:51:05] <PetefromTn_> That is the time when I feel like its time to walk away and hit it fresh in the morning before I kick the shit out of it with a maul or sledgehammer.
[04:51:18] <ssi> yeah that's what I'm thinking too
[04:51:39] <PetefromTn_> Damn it got humid out in the shop today.
[04:51:55] <PetefromTn_> I was kinda sweating and I don't normally get hot out there at all.
[04:52:08] <PetefromTn_> Might have to hookup the Ac unit tomorrow if it is like this again.
[04:52:44] <PetefromTn_> Hate smelling like some kinda wild animal that has been dipped in coolant and rolled in aluminum foil LOL.
[04:53:43] <zeeshan> do you have a portable ac?
[04:53:48] <PetefromTn_> yeah.
[04:53:51] <zeeshan> im considering getting one
[04:53:52] <PetefromTn_> small one.
[04:54:01] <zeeshan> does it work well?
[04:54:02] <PetefromTn_> works fine for the shop since it is not that big.
[04:54:20] <zeeshan> my garage is insulated also
[04:54:28] <PetefromTn_> it does for metalworking. sucks for woodworking because the filter gets clogged with sawdust kinda fast.
[04:54:30] <zeeshan> but i do turn on the exhaust fan when im working
[04:54:37] <PetefromTn_> mine is insulated as well.
[04:54:53] <ssi> well, for the minute that the thing was working...
[04:54:54] <ssi> https://vine.co/v/M2ttM75gljp
[04:54:59] <ssi> it was running 1340ipm
[04:55:01] <PetefromTn_> The problem is the HUGE attic above the shop.
[04:55:14] <PetefromTn_> it generates a lot of heat during the sun of the day.
[04:55:53] <PetefromTn_> If I open the attic ladder for some reason it gets pretty hot in the shop. Even if I do not it can get kinda hot in the middle of the day.
[04:56:15] <zeeshan> an attic is designed to be an air space
[04:56:31] <zeeshan> air is an insulator naturally
[04:56:58] <zeeshan> so when you open the door, you're allowing convection to occur
[04:57:28] <PetefromTn_> my attic has a ridge vent and a small eave vent but it is not enough compared to the roof surface area. The roof has a really high pitch.
[04:57:46] <zeeshan> ssi
[04:57:51] <PetefromTn_> I need to install an electric fan or something up there would probably help a lot.
[04:57:54] <ssi> wat
[04:57:56] <zeeshan> why are you jogging it at 1340 ipm
[04:58:00] <PetefromTn_> looks good ssi.
[04:58:16] <ssi> why are you concerned about it
[04:58:19] <PetefromTn_> how does that Y move?
[04:58:23] <zeeshan> ssi TELL ME NOW
[04:58:25] <zeeshan> !
[04:58:41] <ssi> i haven't set the scaling on Y yet
[04:58:54] <PetefromTn_> he can burn down the neighbors house at ULTRA HIGH SPEED!! LOL
[04:59:22] <zeeshan> haha
[04:59:26] <ssi> zeeshan must have never run a jet cutting machine
[05:00:14] <PetefromTn_> like jet puft marshmallow man? hehe
[05:00:23] <zeeshan> unless you're planning to machine air
[05:00:33] <zeeshan> you wont be ever needing that much feed
[05:00:40] <ssi> let me restate
[05:00:41] <ssi> zeeshan must have never run a jet cutting machine
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[05:00:50] <zeeshan> wtf is a jet cutting machine
[05:00:54] <zeeshan> you mean a waterjet?
[05:01:04] <ssi> waterjet is an example of a jet cutting machine, yes
[05:01:07] <ssi> as is laser and plasma
[05:01:15] <zeeshan> they dont need to move that fast
[05:01:27] <PetefromTn_> if they are big they do.
[05:01:40] <zeeshan> this looks like a 4'x4'
[05:01:41] <zeeshan> its not that big
[05:01:42] <ssi> I run 600ipm on plasma often
[05:01:48] <ssi> cut speed
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[05:02:31] <PetefromTn_> I need to get you to make me some field target faces.
[05:02:37] <zeeshan> http://www.millerwelds.com/education/articles/images/Fig2CutSpeedLOW_001.jpg
[05:02:38] <zeeshan> ?
[05:03:12] <ssi> look at the thicknesses on that chart
[05:03:17] <zeeshan> i am
[05:03:18] <ssi> it STARTS at 1/8, and goes up to 1"
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[05:04:46] <zeeshan> http://victortechnologies.com/IM_Uploads/doclib_8351_DocLib_233_Thermal%20Dynamics%20CUTMASTER%2081%20Automated%20Plasma%20Cutting%20System%20Cut%20Speed%20Chart.pdf
[05:04:47] <zeeshan> ?
[05:04:59] <ssi> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laser_cutting#Production_and_cutting_rates
[05:05:06] <ssi> 42.3cm/sec is 1000ipm
[05:05:23] <zeeshan> no citation for that data
[05:05:26] <zeeshan> gimme another source
[05:05:28] <ssi> jesus christ
[05:05:41] <ssi> go be a knowitall somewhere in canada
[05:05:51] <zeeshan> not being a know it all
[05:05:53] <ssi> PetefromTn_: you see what I mean? it's a deluge of this shit today
[05:06:05] <zeeshan> asking you to provide me a valid reason
[05:06:08] <zeeshan> to have that high of a feed rate
[05:06:10] <PetefromTn_> LOL ya just can't win dude!
[05:06:14] <zeeshan> so far you've gotten pissy
[05:06:19] <zeeshan> and given me a non valid source
[05:06:30] <ssi> wtf do you care
[05:06:34] <zeeshan> and assumed i havent run a 'jet cutting machine'
[05:06:41] <ssi> why do I have to CITE MY SOURCES to justify myself to you?
[05:06:45] <ssi> are you the King Of The Machines now?
[05:06:47] <zeeshan> because you're retarded
[05:06:49] <ssi> thanks
[05:06:53] <zeeshan> to think you'll ever need 1300 ipm
[05:07:01] <zeeshan> the only valid reason would be if you need to rapid from one end of the table
[05:07:02] <zeeshan> to the other end
[05:07:06] <zeeshan> but your table is small
[05:07:07] <ssi> is that not a valid reason?
[05:07:15] <PetefromTn_> hehe
[05:07:35] <PetefromTn_> cat fight.... getting some popcorn!
[05:07:41] <zeeshan> and to sum it up
[05:07:49] <ssi> so many armchair quarterbacks in here
[05:07:52] <ssi> go build something
[05:07:53] <zeeshan> your other defense proved you don't need that speed
[05:08:06] <zeeshan> since you 'ran a plasma at 600ipm'
[05:08:16] <zeeshan> which is half the feed of what you're trying to show off
[05:08:32] <zeeshan> i've built enough stuff
[05:08:34] <zeeshan> with a purpose
[05:08:38] <zeeshan> :-)
[05:08:52] <ssi> and now you've appointed yourself the protector of the internet
[05:08:59] <ssi> here to ensure that everyone else knows they're wrong
[05:09:02] <zeeshan> why are you getting so defensive
[05:09:04] <PetefromTn_> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8BUL4VaNYnA
[05:09:08] <zeeshan> i posted 2 valid charts for you
[05:09:12] <ssi> no you didn't
[05:09:13] <PetefromTn_> does that explain it?
[05:09:13] <zeeshan> to show you you dont need those speeds
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[05:09:30] <ssi> PetefromTn_: thank you
[05:09:32] <zeeshan> PetefromTn_: thats not 1300 ipm
[05:09:34] <ssi> PetefromTn_: although your source is invalid
[05:09:49] <ssi> PetefromTn_: just because you can see it existing doesn't mean it's true
[05:10:08] <zeeshan> PetefromTn_'s source was valid
[05:10:17] <zeeshan> but still missing the ipm
[05:10:32] <zeeshan> ssi, question for you
[05:10:36] <ssi> that machine is way faster than mine
[05:10:38] <zeeshan> if you've 'ran a 600ipm plasma'
[05:10:42] <zeeshan> why are you building another one?
[05:10:50] <ssi> building another what
[05:11:01] <ssi> do you think plasma and laser are the same thing?
[05:11:13] <ssi> citation needed
[05:11:17] <zeeshan> you're running a laser cutter
[05:11:19] <zeeshan> so even more reason
[05:11:21] <zeeshan> to slow down
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[05:11:24] <PetefromTn_> I dunno man that rapid looks at least 1000 IPM to me..
[05:11:35] <ssi> PetefromTn_: it's way faster than my machine
[05:11:55] <ssi> someone should call that guy and tell him he's retarded
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[05:12:04] <ssi> there's no reason he should be able to do what he's doing
[05:12:06] <PetefromTn_> yeah the shit people pull LOL
[05:12:13] <ssi> ZEESHAN says so
[05:12:15] <ssi> and he goes to college
[05:12:39] <zeeshan> ssi i musta hit a nerve today
[05:12:48] <zeeshan> so defensive
[05:13:06] <ssi> I'm sure you love it when people tell you that you're retarded
[05:13:17] <zeeshan> i only called you retarded after you got defensive
[05:13:36] <zeeshan> asked for valid reasons
[05:13:38] <zeeshan> didnt give me one
[05:13:46] <zeeshan> all you had to say was
[05:13:48] <ssi> I gave you plenty, you just refuse to listen
[05:13:52] <zeeshan> 'im planning to cut paper'
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[05:14:44] <PetefromTn_> I'd say the man is planning to cut....whatever the damn thing will cut.
[05:14:44] <ssi> I don't know why I'm talking to you about this... I don't need your permission to turn the speed up on my machine
[05:14:47] <ssi> thank god for that
[05:15:06] <ssi> PetefromTn_: it's too bad I don't live in canada, I could set his house on fire
[05:15:14] <PetefromTn_> hehehehehehehehehe
[05:15:16] <zeeshan> threats now
[05:15:21] <zeeshan> quite mature
[05:15:24] <ssi> accidentally of course
[05:15:33] <PetefromTn_> Oh come on man he is just kiddin'
[05:15:42] <PetefromTn_> I think LOL
[05:15:51] <zeeshan> i don't take someone threatening to burn my house down
[05:15:52] <zeeshan> as a joke
[05:16:04] <ssi> you must have missed the earlier conversation
[05:16:12] <zeeshan> um ok
[05:16:45] <PetefromTn_> I was bustin' his chops telling him he is gonna accidentally set his neighbors house on fire with that damn laser.
[05:17:19] <PetefromTn_> and burn a hole in his crotch LOL
[05:17:32] <ssi> I didn't even burn a hole in the wall, and everyone seems to do that
[05:17:45] <zeeshan> how many watt
[05:17:53] <ssi> I'm afraid to tell you
[05:18:08] <ssi> you'll either tell me it's way more than anyone will ever need, or way less than I can possibly use
[05:18:11] <ssi> or call me a liar
[05:18:12] <PetefromTn_> not enough to burn a hole in the wall obviously...
[05:18:13] <ssi> I'm not sure which
[05:18:39] <zeeshan> hey, it's your eyes
[05:18:47] <ssi> oh now we're back on the eyes
[05:18:53] <zeeshan> if you feel like running a 1000MW laser
[05:18:56] <zeeshan> i could care less
[05:19:15] <zeeshan> i wanted to know the wattage so i could bust your balls more
[05:19:21] <zeeshan> =D
[05:19:29] <PetefromTn_> jigawatts!!! 1.21 to be precise...
[05:19:35] <ssi> if I had a 1000MW laser I'm pretty sure the power company would get upset with me
[05:19:51] <PetefromTn_> just run it with solar...
[05:19:54] <zeeshan> rofl
[05:20:02] <zeeshan> 600 acres of solar panels
[05:20:02] <ssi> lasers are like 20% efficient
[05:20:07] <PetefromTn_> LOL
[05:20:11] <ssi> 5GW is a lot of damn solar
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[05:20:21] <PetefromTn_> I WAS KIDDING!!
[05:20:54] <zeeshan> ssi the reason i asked you about why you need that speed is
[05:20:57] <ssi> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_qpkQD3Srjs this machine rapids about as fast as mine too
[05:21:00] <zeeshan> because everyone wants a faster machine
[05:21:10] <zeeshan> but i went from 500 ipm rapids on the lathe
[05:21:12] <zeeshan> down to 100 ipm
[05:21:18] <zeeshan> it just didnt feel safe!
[05:21:22] <ssi> i understand that completely
[05:21:25] <zeeshan> althought i'm sure it was
[05:21:30] <zeeshan> but realistically, i never need those feeds
[05:21:31] <ssi> the reason I said you must not have experience with jet machines is because they run FAST
[05:21:35] <ssi> WAY faster than mills and lathes
[05:21:39] <ssi> because they're moving OUNCES around
[05:21:39] <zeeshan> i do have experience with them
[05:21:43] <ssi> not tens or hundreds of pounds
[05:21:49] <zeeshan> but mainly cutting 1/16 or thicker
[05:21:50] <zeeshan> metal
[05:22:03] <ssi> I cut 1/16" steel at 350ipm on my plasma
[05:22:08] <ssi> that's the cut chart number
[05:22:21] <zeeshan> 350 ipm
[05:22:25] <zeeshan> and 1300 ipm are far away though
[05:22:31] <ssi> 24ga cuts at 600
[05:22:41] <zeeshan> i've seen at most 600 ipm
[05:22:43] <zeeshan> to be honest with you
[05:22:44] <ssi> 600ipm feed and 1300ipm rapis aren't unreasonable
[05:22:56] <ssi> hell I think i run 1800ipm rapids on the plasma
[05:23:03] <PetefromTn_> most commercial routers run that fast or more
[05:23:03] <ssi> 48" is a lot of ground to cover
[05:23:05] <zeeshan> these are production machines
[05:23:14] <zeeshan> i guess you're building a production machine?
[05:23:25] <ssi> I'm not building maker-class piles of garbage
[05:23:48] <PetefromTn_> it looks like an erector set dude LOL
[05:23:54] <zeeshan> are you building a production machine?
[05:24:16] <ssi> why the hell are you so antagonistic about this?
[05:24:30] <ssi> PetefromTn_: have you seen the laser machines built out of mdf? :P
[05:24:36] <PetefromTn_> nope.
[05:24:57] <ssi> yeah well you can mock mine all you want after you watch some of those vid
[05:25:07] <PetefromTn_> Oh man I kid..
[05:25:10] <toastyde1th> lol I ran a mill with 2500 ipm rapids
[05:25:15] <toastyde1th> and jesus christ allmighty
[05:25:17] <zeeshan> ssi, because 1300 ipm looks overkill on your machine
[05:25:21] <zeeshan> with the 1010 framing
[05:25:25] <ssi> PetefromTn_: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wpsi3tKJGMo
[05:25:37] <ssi> zeeshan: your opinion has been noted.
[05:26:13] <zeeshan> which was the first reason i used the 'r' word
[05:26:14] <zeeshan> :)
[05:26:45] <toastyde1th> also i don't know why you wouldn't have as fast a rapid as possible
[05:26:55] <toastyde1th> as long as you can turn it down it's cool
[05:26:58] <ssi> toastyde1th: because doing so apparently makes you "retarded"
[05:27:03] <PetefromTn_> I need to make an MDF bulldozer to excavate jimmy hoffa's grave in my backyard.
[05:27:07] <zeeshan> because his whole frame is going to vibrate
[05:27:11] <toastyde1th> that's fine
[05:27:28] <toastyde1th> the frame can do whatever it wants, as long as the frame loop is stable
[05:27:35] <ssi> funny, the frame doesn't vibrate
[05:27:38] <toastyde1th> really high end machine tools move all over the goddamn place
[05:27:43] <ssi> I should let it know that it's behaving incorrectly
[05:27:48] <toastyde1th> but the relationship between the tool and work remains constant
[05:27:54] <PetefromTn_> best I can get outta my Cincinatti is about 750 IPM... PLENTY for that machine..
[05:27:56] <toastyde1th> no matter what the frame appears to be doing externally
[05:27:57] <zeeshan> ssi it will once all your axis are working
[05:28:02] <zeeshan> toastyde1th: fair enough
[05:28:10] <toastyde1th> lemme see if i can find a video
[05:28:17] <zeeshan> but he's thinking he's going to be rapiding on his machine
[05:28:18] <ssi> I really think you're overestimating the weight of the gantry and head
[05:28:19] <zeeshan> er
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[05:28:38] <zeeshan> cutting at 1300 ipm
[05:28:48] <zeeshan> which will effect the cut dimensions
[05:28:51] <toastyde1th> here
[05:28:51] <PetefromTn_> the head looks like a piece of printed plastic prolly weighs less than a pound.
[05:28:54] <toastyde1th> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7TowJZQi-qY#t=154
[05:28:56] <ssi> PetefromTn_: it's steel
[05:29:02] <ssi> er, the laser head is aluminum
[05:29:03] <toastyde1th> watch it rapid
[05:29:05] <ssi> the gantry plates are steel
[05:29:21] <zeeshan> toastyde1th: thats a monster
[05:29:28] <toastyde1th> yep, and it's flying all over the place
[05:29:42] <zeeshan> i agree 100% with you on rapiding and machine movement is ok
[05:29:53] <toastyde1th> there's an argument to be made that if you mount a machine on rubber, you have less force deflecting the tool on accel/decel
[05:30:11] <ssi> makes sense
[05:30:58] <PetefromTn_> that looks really cool and all but damn it also looks unbelievably complicated.
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[05:31:05] <ssi> PetefromTn_: cam for it is $$$$ :P
[05:31:08] <zeeshan> toastyde1th: wouldn't the whole machine float together
[05:31:14] <toastyde1th> yep, that's what happens
[05:31:29] <toastyde1th> rather than reacting harshly against the floor, the duration of the force is longer but the magnetude is lower
[05:32:04] <zeeshan> toastyde1th: you seem to love vibrations
[05:32:06] <toastyde1th> and yeah, hexapods are complicated.
[05:32:14] <zeeshan> you always talk about em
[05:32:17] <toastyde1th> machining is mostly about controlling vibration, so...
[05:32:56] <zeeshan> for me, my experience has been from a model approach
[05:33:10] <zeeshan> and then combining that from accelerometer data
[05:33:20] <zeeshan> modal analysis..
[05:39:04] <toastyde1th> this is a really off topic question
[05:39:09] <toastyde1th> but do any of you happen to shoot sports photography
[05:39:29] <ssi> I've shot a bunch of airshows, which is sorta similar
[05:40:04] <toastyde1th> this is particular to land sports
[05:40:20] <ssi> how so?
[05:40:20] <toastyde1th> i have a client who wants a bunch of amateur sports shots
[05:40:32] <ssi> oh you're actually looking for photos
[05:40:45] <toastyde1th> and I was wondering if anyone uses pan heads, or prefers to stick to a raw monopod
[05:40:49] <ssi> ah
[05:40:50] <toastyde1th> no, i'm taking them
[05:41:14] <ssi> nah I shot mostly handheld
[05:41:15] <PetefromTn_> That is something I want to get into machining parts for.
[05:41:35] <ssi> although panhead or monopod would be useful for airshows, because even though it's not "land sports", most of the action is within 20' of the ground :P
[05:41:36] <toastyde1th> ssi, at what focal length
[05:41:36] <PetefromTn_> Some of those guys get real serious about machined mounts and movements.
[05:41:51] <ssi> typically 200 or 300mm on DX
[05:42:04] <toastyde1th> I also have the problem that some of this is indoor
[05:42:22] <ssi> f/2.8 glass is your friend then :)
[05:42:23] <PetefromTn_> indoor circus?
[05:42:27] <zeeshan> toastyde1th: trying to take shots of girl's butts?
[05:42:28] <toastyde1th> yeah, that's what i'm using
[05:42:33] <zeeshan> :D
[05:42:38] <toastyde1th> my lenses are all 2.8 or faster
[05:43:10] <toastyde1th> but i don't really want to go buy a pan head without talking to someone who has used one in a similar situation
[05:43:29] <ssi> can't help you there :/
[05:43:35] <PetefromTn_> looks like toastydeth is makin' a porno hehe
[05:44:22] <PetefromTn_> and on that bombshell I am gonna call it a night LOL.... GNITE ALL!
[05:44:51] <zeeshan> haha pete!
[05:44:54] <toastyde1th> lol
[05:44:54] <zeeshan> topgear ftw
[05:44:55] <zeeshan> :D
[05:45:00] <PetefromTn_> YUP!
[05:45:01] <zeeshan> gnite
[05:45:03] <PetefromTn_> Love those guys..
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[05:46:00] <toastyde1th> i am considering buying the sigma 120-300mm f2.8
[05:46:24] <toastyde1th> because I'm getting jobs that require some amount of reach but I dont' really need to spend 6500 on a 200-400 f4
[05:46:52] <toastyde1th> that lens and the 1.4 teleconverter will bring me to a slightly less sharp 200-400 f4 at less than half the pice
[05:46:54] <toastyde1th> *price
[05:50:45] <ssi> have you rented lenses at all?
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[05:51:21] <toastyde1th> nope
[05:51:31] <toastyde1th> imho not super worth it
[05:52:39] <toastyde1th> like if I had a job come up that i just could not do without something, yeah I'd rent, but I'd be losing a lot of the profit on the short jobs that i do
[05:52:47] <ssi> yeah
[05:53:24] <ssi> hm
[05:53:28] <ssi> I wish I knew why my meter wouldn't come on
[05:53:34] <toastyde1th> ?
[05:53:49] <ssi> everything seems to have failed simultaneously
[05:53:56] <ssi> and I can't troubleshoot anything cause my fluke 189 won't power on
[05:54:01] <ssi> which is very odd
[05:54:01] <Loetmichel> mornin'
[05:54:08] <ssi> not sure why it decided to die at the same time as everything else
[05:54:11] <ssi> since it was in A DIFFERENT ROOM
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[06:05:26] <ssi> and just like that, it came back to life
[06:07:32] <jymmm> Mmmmm Brainzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
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[06:44:34] <Deejay> moin
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[06:52:40] <RyanS> those automatic lubricators for air lines any good? Or not really worth
[06:53:31] <archivist> without, the tools dont get oiled, you do the maths
[06:54:10] <RyanS> can't you do it manually
[06:59:06] <zeeshan> yea
[06:59:07] <zeeshan> thats what i do
[06:59:08] <zeeshan> manually
[06:59:37] <archivist> but I bet 99% of users forget
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[07:01:06] <RyanS> Somebody had one connected before a manifold and had the blowgun afterwards, oil sprayer anyone?
[07:03:10] <RyanS> zees do you just drop some oil into the tool inlet before connection?
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[07:04:23] <archivist> you want dry air for a paint gun
[07:05:10] <RyanS> Actually . It's just a nuisance to have an automatic lubricator, I think
[07:06:07] <Valen> RyanS: why is that?
[07:06:13] <zeeshan> ryans 1 drop before using tool
[07:07:00] <zeeshan> i do a lot of airbrshing
[07:07:23] <RyanS> Valen actually, I don't know, aight be easier to have one for a power drawbar
[07:07:29] <zeeshan> the compressor oil is a pain by itself to get rid of from the air!
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[07:07:48] <zeeshan> so i avoided additional oil
[07:08:00] <zeeshan> i just add oil at tool for that reason
[07:08:22] <Valen> we were thinking of making one with a buttload of peristalic pumps basically, run at fixed rate when the spindle is on basically
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[07:27:59] <Loetmichel> peristaltic pumps for air?
[07:28:10] <Loetmichel> that doesent sound very efficient ;-)
[07:29:19] * Loetmichel helped making a air compressor out of an old 1.6 litre VW rabbit 4cyl engine with a new head two decades ago. THAT was compressed air!
[07:29:40] <RyanS> I find it very amusing that I am hunting around to save one dollar each on polypropylene fittings, whilst spending $700 on an air compressor
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[07:29:56] <Loetmichel> first version with a 2800rpm 3kw 3 phase motor...
[07:30:19] <Loetmichel> ... stalled at 60 bar with plugged outlet
[07:30:39] <Loetmichel> so we've fit a 60kW 3phase...
[07:30:49] <Loetmichel> which managed to tear the mount apart...
[07:31:06] <Loetmichel> mount improved by 2 pieces of railway rails...
[07:31:12] <RyanS> How much the three phase power cost to get to your house
[07:31:50] <RyanS> Installed a
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[07:32:02] <Loetmichel> 120 bar and still runnung... and started to press the 400 4mm ballvalve teflon balls through the new heads valve seats ;-)
[07:32:24] <Loetmichel> RyanS: as i am in germany: any decent house HAS 3 phase
[07:32:44] <RyanS> I hate you :)
[07:32:51] <Loetmichel> with at least 3*32A, moste have 3*63A or even 3*240A ;-)
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[07:36:01] <RyanS> bloody germans :) supposed to be ]clean and green, These days. At 240 Amp of efficient energy saving
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[07:38:48] <RyanS> Although us Australians are kind enough to send our brown coal and uranium to China, so we can't talk
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[10:52:59] <jthornton> www.pocketnc.com
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[11:06:40] <jymmm> itlooks like they are two seperate pieces.
[11:07:02] <jymmm> is there enough weight to them?
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[11:13:43] <jthornton> enough weight for what?
[11:14:18] <jymmm> stability, dampening any vibrations, etc
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[12:20:44] <archivist> I see they have finally started using linuxcnc
[12:22:31] <mozmck> what were they using before?
[12:23:11] <archivist> I think they were struggling by the looks of earlier blog posts
[12:24:24] <archivist> it got noticed a long while ago and seemed to be moving on very slowly
[12:24:37] <jthornton> they privately asked me for "Encoder Help with Pocket NC Machine"
[12:26:00] <archivist> I saw mention with trouble with their trajectory planner
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[12:27:28] <archivist> I think the basic design may bite them in the butt when they try to cut something solid (not plastic)
[12:34:00] <XXCoder> unobtatainium?
[12:35:03] <Loetmichel> *ha, it works! ... the new holex mill bit is great. mills steel on a Chinese CNC604... -> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=15071&g2_imageViewsIndex=1
[12:35:06] <archivist> nah just mild steel
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[12:38:19] <XXCoder> lol ok
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[12:46:23] <CaptHindsight> Uses 1/8th inch end mills
[12:47:44] <CaptHindsight> so think of it more like a 5-axis cnc Dremel
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[12:55:00] <archivist> in the later blog entry they talk about autodesk, are they expecting that to be low cost to with the machine?
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[12:58:08] <CaptHindsight> if they target education then the software is free, maybe that's where they ended up with their solution looking for a problem
[12:58:32] <JT-Shop> $3200 seems high for such a little thing
[13:00:41] <archivist> 2500 is for autodesk
[13:00:44] <CaptHindsight> $1000 to manufacture?
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[13:02:48] <CaptHindsight> maybe a 2" (50mm) travel XYZ?
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[13:04:44] <archivist> travels that small are not usable for many jobs
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[13:06:19] <CaptHindsight> did you see Skunkworks Trainer? I can see this used poorly for training
[13:06:25] <archivist> my first edition of the 5 axis fugly had 60 x 90 mm on xy and I was always messing about to get into the envelope
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[13:08:01] <archivist> my z at about 250 often meant problems so I jacket the column up about 8 inches
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[13:15:11] <CaptHindsight> http://www.pocketnc.com/blog/ but they put a Haas in their garage
[13:16:05] <archivist> once they compare there new toy with the haas then what
[13:16:57] <JT-Shop> they are combining a seat of autodesk with the toy?
[13:17:13] * JT-Shop hates bundled things
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[13:17:52] <CaptHindsight> I think they have, but it doesn't matter. They figured out that the maker faire will buy these
[13:18:17] <CaptHindsight> I bet there's an education angle as well with the autocad tie in
[13:18:27] <ssi> does cam come with it?
[13:18:38] <ssi> because 5 axis cam is a bitch at that budget
[13:18:56] <CaptHindsight> from their blog autocad will have post processor for it
[13:19:42] <archivist> is it 3500 for the toy and 35000 for autodesk
[13:20:31] <CaptHindsight> "They have some great solutions coming down the pipe line to offer affordable CAD/CAM software"
[13:20:48] <CaptHindsight> affordable is not defined
[13:21:03] <archivist> I did make the mistake of asking about 5 axis cam at a show, 60000 pounds was mentioned by one company
[13:22:08] <ssi> I almost wish the toy folks weren't working with autodesk on a cam plugin
[13:22:21] <ssi> cause the maker people might actually write something useful
[13:22:22] <CaptHindsight> 5-axis mastercam was ~$20K IIRC
[13:22:36] <ssi> never underestimate the resourcefulness of a hundred thousand nerds
[13:22:38] <archivist> iirc another company was around £18000
[13:22:47] <archivist> probably was mastercam
[13:23:09] <CaptHindsight> NX with all the bells and whistles is ~$70K
[13:24:14] <archivist> "what the market will bare" pricing
[13:25:31] <CaptHindsight> maybe an online CAM service where you pay by the file and size would make since for this
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[13:26:56] <archivist> the online service would need to know a lot about the users machines
[13:27:16] <archivist> and fix the unmachinable designs
[13:27:24] <CaptHindsight> yes, and this is small with very limited tools
[13:29:12] <CaptHindsight> besides education, what are good applications for this tiny machine?
[13:31:00] <archivist> I suppose jewellery making
[13:31:05] <CaptHindsight> how do you make your money back quickly? firearm parts, jewelry, ??
[13:31:47] <jdh> clock gears... big money in that!
[13:31:57] <archivist> I think this is a product to be sold to the I want but dont know how to use crowd
[13:32:20] <archivist> jdh erm you are joking I hope
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[13:33:06] <jdh> :)
[13:33:37] <CaptHindsight> maybe it could clean up the parts made by a reprap?
[13:33:54] <archivist> made less than 20 gears in 5 years
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[13:35:48] <CaptHindsight> linuxcnc works on several ARM boards now but they are still stuck with the floating point flaw
[13:35:57] <Smidge204__> Printed parts shouldn't nede that much cleaning up - maybe some sanding or edge removal. Any kind of machine to do that is way overkill
[13:36:31] <CaptHindsight> have you seen an FDM print :)
[13:36:52] <Smidge204__> Since I have an FDM machine, yes I've seen lots of FDM prints!
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[13:37:19] <archivist> perhaps your expectations are lower than ours :)
[13:37:25] <Smidge204__> Perhaps!
[13:37:27] <CaptHindsight> http://www.xenomai.org/pipermail/xenomai/2014-July/031210.html
[13:38:23] <Smidge204__> It just seems silly to machine a 3D printed part - the whole advantage of 3D printing is you can make parts that are difficult to machine
[13:38:59] <Smidge204__> Otherwise you could have just machined it from a block of delrin or whatever from the start and save yourself the time
[13:39:46] <CaptHindsight> oh this is becoming a rational discussion, well sure
[13:40:41] <CaptHindsight> but haven't you heard how FDM will revolutionize manufacturing :)
[13:41:14] <Smidge204__> I've heard what some people claim, and I generaly laugh at them
[13:41:20] <CaptHindsight> but then you couldn't sell as many printers to the less informed
[13:41:30] <Smidge204__> Mmm
[13:41:43] <Smidge204__> Apple needs to come out with an iPrint machine
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[13:43:39] <CaptHindsight> or just start selling iFood
[13:43:43] <archivist> they wont do that in case the users stop buying bling from them
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[13:44:53] <Smidge204__> archivist: Nonsense. Lots of people print smartphone cases, right? Apple could sell the models *and* the materials to let people print their own (with a erasonably high failure rate, of course) which would be nothing but profit
[13:45:46] <Smidge204__> They wouldn't need to pay for tooling or inventory or distribution... but they could charge $5-$10 for 20kb worth of data and $70/kg for material
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[13:46:49] <CaptHindsight> could they get the frustration rate below the success rate?
[13:46:50] <archivist> a comment I made in another channel this morning was "I cannot understand why over priced stuff gets love"
[13:47:07] <CaptHindsight> socialization
[13:47:13] <Smidge204__> CaptHindsight: These are Apple product users. They think frustration is a feature.
[13:47:38] <CaptHindsight> archivist: we are relatively immune from it, growing up when and where we did
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[13:48:17] <CaptHindsight> but there are generations now that have been trained to be good consumers
[13:48:52] <archivist> I am not and never intend to be a "good consumer"
[13:48:53] <CaptHindsight> status symbols are required to have good feeling about yourself
[13:50:34] <CaptHindsight> the majority or purchases are based on branding and not specs
[13:51:02] <Smidge204__> Well, to a limited degree branding is relevant *if* that brand has a well-earned reputation
[13:52:04] <archivist> Apple has a well earned reputation for taking too much money for things that dont last
[13:52:45] <CaptHindsight> http://www.amazon.com/Born-Buy-Commercialized-Consumer-Culture/dp/0684870568
[13:52:55] <CaptHindsight> buy this ^^ :)
[13:55:30] <jdh> people make their own product value decisions. If they decide apples products meet their needs, who cares.
[13:56:17] <Smidge204__> Innovation suffers
[13:56:34] <Smidge204__> The market as a whole suffers in a monoculture, or close to it
[13:57:47] <CaptHindsight> not just the market, civilization
[13:58:41] <CaptHindsight> all these bad decisions add up, letting bankers get away with anything, bad patents, greed trumps health, etc etc
[14:00:54] <CaptHindsight> but back to that 5-axis mill, I don't see many applications
[14:01:20] <Smidge204__> It's the kind of thing you'd get for production runs
[14:01:50] <CaptHindsight> manual tool change
[14:02:06] <Smidge204__> Short production runs :p
[14:02:13] <CaptHindsight> 5-axis engraving
[14:02:25] * Smidge204__ shrugs
[14:02:48] <Smidge204__> I'm sure the people who could use them know exactly what they're good for
[14:03:01] <CaptHindsight> how to change it to make it more useful?
[14:03:27] <archivist> needs trunnion to avoid vibration
[14:03:48] <archivist> dont ask me how I know :)
[14:05:03] <CaptHindsight> I use trunnions on printers just to hold the accuracy/repeatability
[14:05:59] <CaptHindsight> http://www.datron.com/cnc-machines/c5.php here's a small 5-axis mill
[14:06:01] <archivist> they seem to have very thin axes showing a lack of structural stiffness
[14:06:27] <archivist> I have seen the datron up close
[14:07:49] <archivist> actually not I was thinking of another in a similar case
[14:11:18] <CaptHindsight> cool and dry today, time to air out the shop again
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[14:32:32] <tjtr33> CaptHindsight, are you steering clear of the ARMs now due to the FP flaw? Has Michael Hor CharlesS addressed it?
[14:34:41] <CaptHindsight> tjtr33: no, just trying to see if it's actually a problem and when
[14:36:24] <CaptHindsight> it runs on the ARM Chromebook, BBB, cubie2, Parallela (Zynq-7000)
[14:36:38] <CaptHindsight> Odroid U3
[14:36:46] <tjtr33> thx, will file under 'not often deadly' :)
[14:37:10] <CaptHindsight> discussions ongoing in the -devel
[14:37:27] <tjtr33> thx
[14:37:57] <CaptHindsight> http://emergent.unpythonic.net/files/sandbox/atomy.cc acts up on Intel but not on the Chromebook
[14:38:02] <CaptHindsight> so it's odd
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[15:05:56] <ssi> holy cow
[15:05:57] <ssi> http://www.amazon.com/Meanwell-NES-350-48-Power-Supply-OlympianLED/dp/B00L1GZIHW/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1406127758&sr=8-2&keywords=48v+meanwell
[15:05:59] <PetefromTn_> morning folks....well...late morning.
[15:06:04] <ssi> $5.99 to have it shipped and delivered by 9pm today
[15:06:07] <ssi> I'm trying that
[15:06:08] <ssi> haha
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[15:12:53] <ssi> PetefromTn_: http://www.instructables.com/id/Build-Laser-Cutter/
[15:12:58] <ssi> PetefromTn_: tell me again about my erector set machine :)
[15:13:40] <ssi> http://cdn.instructables.com/FF5/252W/GNVIFD9W/FF5252WGNVIFD9W.MEDIUM.jpg
[15:13:45] <ssi> dear sweet baby jeses
[15:13:46] <archivist> ssi that looks like a psu that exploded on me :)
[15:13:55] <ssi> archivist: that meanwell?
[15:14:14] <ssi> usually the meanwells are decent... the knockoffs less so
[15:14:26] <ssi> I had a keling 48v frame supply like that die on me last night :/
[15:14:56] <PetefromTn_> LOL nice..
[15:15:00] <archivist> this is in an aluminium case and is not a meanwell
[15:15:51] <CaptHindsight> I hear they pave the way to hell with those supplies :)
[15:16:15] <ssi> lul
[15:17:02] <CaptHindsight> so no overcurrent protection in those?
[15:17:16] <ssi> in that one? dunno
[15:17:25] <ssi> in the keling? there's an 8A fuse, but I dunno what exactly killed it
[15:17:37] <ssi> now it pops fuse as soon as you power it on, even unloaded
[15:18:02] <ssi> what happened was: after swapping out for those 400 step motors from sparkfun and starting to get motion tuned,
[15:18:10] <ssi> it was running ok, with more heating than I'd like
[15:18:21] <ssi> then a motor started screaming horribly and then the computer rebooted
[15:18:29] <ssi> :P
[15:19:00] <ssi> I did get one glimpse of a fault on the leadshine drive, and I think it was two blinks, which'd actually indicate overvoltage
[15:19:10] <ssi> I'm sort of at a loss as to what's bad at this point :P
[15:19:12] <ssi> I know the psu is bad
[15:19:32] <ssi> two of the three motors are measuring one coil lower resistance than the other
[15:20:10] <CaptHindsight> maybe it went overvoltage but the current wasn't high enough to blow the fuse, but now the silicon is toast
[15:20:19] <ssi> very possible
[15:20:34] <CaptHindsight> corner cutting design
[15:21:00] prtksxna is now known as zz_prtksxna
[15:21:30] <ssi> hm I have a 42v supply on hand that I KNOW is a good one
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[15:21:38] <archivist> I had this supply resting on the bench with the stepper on a bad resonance...phut
[15:21:54] <ssi> that may be what got this one
[15:22:17] <ssi> also I had the drives misconfigured; there's a full/40% current at idle switch
[15:22:20] <ssi> and I think I had it in full current
[15:22:25] <ssi> those motors got quite hot
[15:22:40] <ssi> I had the current setting below the rated current though; they're rated 1.7A and I had the drives configured for 1.5, which is lowest
[15:24:14] <ssi> I wish counterfeiting in china wasn't such a big problem :/
[15:24:28] <ssi> I don't mind buying cheap stuff, but cheap stuff passed off as good stuff sucks
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[15:29:59] <CaptHindsight> you have to know the suppliers, it's buyer beware to the extreme there
[15:30:53] <jdh> was the reboot related to this?
[15:33:16] <ssi> yeah
[15:33:28] <ssi> the psu is pulling the line voltage down
[15:33:32] <jdh> heh
[15:33:36] <jdh> that's impressive
[15:33:44] <ssi> that's my theory anyway
[15:33:52] <ssi> the psu is on a relay that's driven by the 7i76
[15:34:00] <ssi> so when the computer shuts off, that relay drops and the psu shuts off
[15:34:03] <ssi> so the line voltage comes back up
[15:34:10] <ssi> safety by design :P
[15:34:17] <ssi> or something like that haha
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[15:36:43] <ssi> CaptHindsight: I'm trynig to figure out if the seller "MEAN WELL" on Amazon is trustworthy or not :P
[15:36:47] <ssi> CaptHindsight: it's a hard problem hahah
[15:36:58] <ssi> I trust amazon, but amazon pollutes its market space with untrusted sellers
[15:37:09] <ssi> although typically the prime eligible sellers tend to be good
[15:37:26] <ssi> I ordered it already, so I guess I'll just make a judgement call when it arrives :)
[15:40:11] <ssi> I was thinking that was too cheap, but they're $56.80 from mouser so I guess it's in line with pricing
[15:40:26] <ssi> why the hell did I ever bother buying keling supplies for $50? :P
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[15:46:53] <PetefromTn_> Man I am so pissed...
[15:49:05] <PetefromTn_> apparently my wife ordered some kinda package from Wen by Chaz Dean and it was like $50.00 worth of body moisturizers or something. Not realizing it is a recurring order kinda thing every month they send you another package and bill your damn credit card. We cancelled it two months ago and we are STILL getting billed for it.
[15:50:10] <PetefromTn_> I just did a search for it online and apparently these guys are some kinda con artists doing this to a LOT of people and then when you cancel the order or stop payment somehow they send you to collections.
[15:50:55] <PetefromTn_> Be careful who you buy from online man it can kick you in the ass if you get the wrong sellers.
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[16:05:28] <jdh> same for local drug dealers.
[16:05:31] <jdh> I mean... nevermind.
[16:06:27] <mozmck> people were doing this with mail order stuff before there was online selling...
[16:06:50] zz_prtksxna is now known as prtksxna
[16:08:30] <jdh> ssi: I bought a pair of these: http://www.ebay.com/itm/160778534797
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[16:08:54] <PetefromTn_> these guys are serious con artists man. I just have been reading complaints about it online and there are LOTS of people dealing with this. sorry for the OT but it really pisses me off.
[16:10:10] <mozmck> sick the FTC on them!
[16:11:02] <jdh> Pete: tell her she doesn't need to waste money on that stuff. A few more beers for you will have the same affect.
[16:11:31] <PetefromTn_> hell she knows that man!!
[16:11:42] <PetefromTn_> she don't even need to give me the beers LOL
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[16:12:27] <PetefromTn_> I do not know what to do about it now. If I cancel payment they apparently send you to collections and it costs you a bunch more money.
[16:13:13] tronwzrd is now known as tronwizard
[16:14:28] <jdh> did you call your CC company?
[16:16:36] <PetefromTn_> doing it right now...
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[16:17:34] <jdh> get lunch ready for the hold time.
[16:17:56] <PetefromTn_> yeah right...
[16:22:24] <PetefromTn_> they said they can cancel the card and issue me a new one but it will take ten business days to get it. SUX
[16:22:49] <jdh> and they will credit the original charge?
[16:26:49] <PetefromTn_> I dunno yet.
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[16:27:33] <PetefromTn_> Please tell your wives and daughters about this stuff. It is apparently a huge problem. http://www.consumeraffairs.com/cosmetics/wen.html?page=2
[16:28:25] <jdh> really pete, you should know better than to allow a female unmonitored access to a credit card.
[16:28:35] * jdh looks around for females to offend.
[16:30:32] <PetefromTn_> I hear ya man. She works hard tho and deserves some nice stuff when she wants it. These guys are just a big freakin' scam.
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[16:36:35] <t12> theres a whole scam industry around rebills
[16:36:47] <t12> the whole win a free ipod/playstation/whatever thing was about that
[16:37:45] <PetefromTn_> read that link I posted its the same story over and over... I think I am screwed here.
[16:38:37] <PetefromTn_> I will cancel my credit card and deal with their apparent collections attempts seems the least miserable way out.
[16:39:54] <mozmck> PetefromTn_: http://www.consumerfraudreporting.org/reporting.php#InternetScams
[16:41:05] <PetefromTn_> thanks man I will look into that. Like I said PLEASE tell your wifes, mothers, daughters about these smart asses. Might save you some serious money and aggravation.
[16:41:26] <ssi> jdh: that link isn't loading for me; what is it?
[16:42:28] <ssi> oh I got it now
[16:43:13] <ssi> holy balls
[16:43:13] <ssi> AC Inrush current25A/115V 50A/230V
[16:44:58] -!- jduhls has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
[16:45:36] <ssi> ha the meanwell version specifies 40A/115V, 60A/230V
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[16:52:17] <t12> depending on the cc
[16:52:21] <t12> you can call them up and just say
[16:52:24] <t12> i do not auth these charges
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[16:53:02] <IchGuckLive> hi all B)
[16:53:33] <ssi> hey ich
[16:54:33] <CaptHindsight> PetefromTn_: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enzyte#Federal_indictment_and_trial similar scam
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[16:59:47] <PetefromTn_> WOW man they threw that bastard in jail for 25 years! I hope Chaz reads this LOL.. This is just a huge scam is all it is and they are getting a TON of people buying into it without reailizing what it is.
[17:00:28] <PetefromTn_> Well I think I have wasted enough bandwidth here about this. Just do yourself a favor and tell people about it so they don't get the big shaft like we are.
[17:00:39] <ssi> sucks man
[17:02:44] <PetefromTn_> I wonder if I shared the link to that consumeraffairs.com about it on facebook if I would be liable for slander etc.
[17:07:44] <ssi> here ya go pete, found you a project
[17:07:45] <ssi> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W0Mod_92VZA
[17:08:03] <zeeshan> ssi
[17:08:09] <zeeshan> maybe you can use your 1000mw laser for it
[17:08:18] <zeeshan> *on it
[17:08:28] <ssi> on what
[17:08:38] <zeeshan> the 600lb chunk of maple
[17:08:44] <ssi> probably
[17:08:44] <zeeshan> :-)
[17:09:06] <ds3> Mmmmmmmmmm the smell of smouldering maple
[17:09:16] <PetefromTn_> jeez that is just nutz.
[17:09:45] <PetefromTn_> I have done quite a bit of wood lathe turning in the cabinet builder side but when we did stuff that large we used a different kind of machine.
[17:10:20] <ssi> you wanted to build something complex and unusual
[17:10:22] <ssi> I think this qualifies :)
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[17:12:32] <PetefromTn_> No I said I wanted to build something higher end that does not necessarily mean I want to wrestle with a huge solid horn build on a widowmaker machine and getting my limbs ripped off LOL
[17:12:38] <ssi> :D
[17:12:50] <ssi> look on the bright side
[17:13:03] <ssi> if the lathe kills you, you won't have to muck around with credit card scammers anymore
[17:13:14] <PetefromTn_> that IS a bright side huh..
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[17:14:12] <ssi> god this looks like a miserable pile of work
[17:14:12] <PetefromTn_> damn man that is dangerous on so many levels LOL
[17:14:35] <CaptHindsight> it's not a tree stump lathe if it's not connected to a car in some way :)
[17:14:45] <zeeshan> CaptHindsight: hah
[17:14:46] <ssi> hahah
[17:14:52] <zeeshan> youve seen the video of the truck axle being used as a wood lathe?
[17:14:56] <ssi> ya
[17:15:01] <PetefromTn_> yeah i saw that video...
[17:15:05] <ssi> "engine lathe" hahaha
[17:15:10] <PetefromTn_> some crazy bastards out there..
[17:15:12] <zeeshan> the REAL 300hp engine lathe
[17:15:13] <zeeshan> :D
[17:16:02] <CaptHindsight> zeeshan: who makes the best/most flexible ECU for retrofits?
[17:16:05] <PetefromTn_> just waiting for that gouge to grab and toss that old fellow into the ceiling and then down onto the spinning tree trunk is making me nervous.
[17:16:12] <zeeshan> CaptHindsight: $$?
[17:16:30] <CaptHindsight> what's $ ? :)
[17:16:30] <zeeshan> how many cylinder
[17:16:37] <CaptHindsight> 6 or 8
[17:16:47] <ssi> CaptHindsight: I've worked with megasquirt a bunch in the past
[17:16:51] <zeeshan> if it's a completely custom system
[17:17:01] <zeeshan> where you'll be using sensors from different manufacturers ands tuff
[17:17:13] <zeeshan> i've used aem ems, haltech e6x, and megasquit
[17:17:20] <CaptHindsight> does it come with source or do you just work with IO and their tools?
[17:17:23] <zeeshan> i personally like aem ems the best
[17:17:32] <zeeshan> what do you mean?
[17:17:50] <ssi> megasquirt is open source; I doubt haltech or aem are
[17:17:51] <zeeshan> for the aem ems, the universal edition
[17:17:51] <CaptHindsight> the source code for the computer OS/or app
[17:17:52] <zeeshan> oh
[17:17:57] <zeeshan> no they're closed
[17:18:06] <zeeshan> megasquirt is open source
[17:18:08] <zeeshan> but it's also buggy
[17:18:21] <PetefromTn_> I love one of the comments on the turning video.... This is how toothpicks are made HILARIOUS!
[17:18:21] <CaptHindsight> so are OEM :)
[17:18:49] <zeeshan> CaptHindsight: with the aem ems, you have certain dedicated input and output pins
[17:18:51] <ssi> I'll take a buggy open source firmware over a buggy closed source firmware any day of the week :P
[17:18:56] <zeeshan> some output pins are PWM
[17:19:00] <CaptHindsight> If that guy showed you that video as part of his resume would you hire him?
[17:19:05] <zeeshan> so you can drive fan outputs, injectors etc
[17:19:19] <ssi> CaptHindsight: the turning video?
[17:19:22] <zeeshan> some inputs can handle 0-5V (like tps sensor)
[17:19:28] <zeeshan> some can handle impedance imputs
[17:19:30] <zeeshan> (analog)
[17:19:37] <zeeshan> you just wire everything to the correct pins
[17:19:49] <PetefromTn_> No because I would be afraid he was a PSYCHO!
[17:19:52] <CaptHindsight> I can build signal processing/conditioning as well
[17:20:03] <zeeshan> you might as well build your own ecu then
[17:20:06] <zeeshan> its not that hard :P
[17:20:18] <CaptHindsight> I've considered that
[17:20:29] <zeeshan> i can direct you to two people on irc
[17:20:32] <zeeshan> that have built their own ecus
[17:20:33] <zeeshan> if you want
[17:20:38] <zeeshan> they're on efnet
[17:20:44] <CaptHindsight> as long as it passes the emissions tests
[17:21:11] <zeeshan> i personally have steered away from standalone ems systems
[17:21:16] <zeeshan> i used to run them back in the day
[17:21:23] <zeeshan> but it's much better to run say a GM factory ecu
[17:21:25] <zeeshan> which has been hacked
[17:21:30] <zeeshan> so you can meet obd2 compliance
[17:21:34] <zeeshan> and modify the parameters you need to
[17:22:12] <zeeshan> on my twin turbo lq9 i'm using a factory gm ecu
[17:22:15] <CaptHindsight> another project, thanks for the info!
[17:22:15] <zeeshan> with 'hp tuners'
[17:22:23] <jdh> could you put an AVR or something between the obd2 port and the actual obd2 and have it massage data coming back out?
[17:22:50] <CaptHindsight> fake out the reader
[17:23:03] <CaptHindsight> I hear it's been done :p
[17:23:16] <zeeshan> here for emissions
[17:23:29] <zeeshan> they run a custom program
[17:23:34] <zeeshan> that tests various outputs
[17:23:45] <zeeshan> i'm sure if you could know exactly what they're testing for, you can fake some outputs :D
[17:23:48] <PetefromTn_> HOLY SMOKES... it says in part two of that video that the customer paid him $6k to turn those two wood pieces and then against his advice submerged them in urethane finish to get a smooth clear coat and they smelled so bad that they were unable to be used in the house LOL
[17:23:59] <ssi> PetefromTn_: hahaaha
[17:24:03] <ssi> haven't gotten that far yet
[17:24:55] <PetefromTn_> man that would suck doing all that damn near breakneck turning work only to find that it was trashed by the customer.
[17:24:59] <CaptHindsight> should have used a UV urethane
[17:25:07] <zeeshan> PetefromTn_: at least he got paid
[17:25:08] <zeeshan> :D
[17:26:29] <zeeshan> fak why am i so lazy today
[17:26:33] <PetefromTn_> I am doing a five part finish on the kitchen cabinets, Primer, color, water based urethane clear, hand rubbed glaze, water based urethane clear coat with of course scuff sanding between coats. Never really used this water based urethane but it kicks ass. It dries quickly and it is HARD AS A ROCK when it does...
[17:26:40] <CaptHindsight> http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/MTIwMFgxMjAw/z/Ne0AAMXQtUxTebWr/$_57.JPG came in today via chinaslowpost
[17:26:52] <zeeshan> wasat
[17:27:01] <PetefromTn_> you clean the gun with water pretty cool....
[17:27:17] <ssi> CaptHindsight: I ordered some of that stuff same day you did, and mine's out for delivery
[17:27:30] <ssi> mine don't have readouts; I got ten of the cheap regulator boards and ten 2-channel relay boards
[17:29:29] <PetefromTn_> ya know what scares me about that turning video the most.... INTERNAL STRESSES. Maple is riddled with it. I have cut TONS and TONS of the stuff and have witnessed many times a table saw blade damn near come to a stop when the board I was ripping tweaks and binds against the blade from internal stresses. I could not imagine that happenning when it is a 600 pound chunk spinning at a couple hundred RPM in front of my face LO
[17:29:44] <ssi> PetefromTn_: dang that burl is gorgeous once he's got it sanded
[17:30:25] <zeeshan> PetefromTn_:
[17:30:34] <zeeshan> does the gun need to be cleaned with distilled water?
[17:30:36] <Tom_itx> CaptHindsight decided to get some with readouts ehh?
[17:30:40] <zeeshan> i'm thinking about painting another car
[17:30:44] <zeeshan> and trying out waterborne paint
[17:31:03] <zeeshan> it's super sensitive to surface prep and line contaminants ;/
[17:31:04] <PetefromTn_> I dunno I just used regular tap water. seemed to clean up just fine.
[17:31:19] <zeeshan> so i'd think if itstap water
[17:31:28] <zeeshan> the minerals might clog the nozzle
[17:31:36] <zeeshan> or break off next time you're trying to paint
[17:31:45] <zeeshan> and show up as a raised spot
[17:31:54] <PetefromTn_> this is a cabinet not a car so I am not using a fine nozzle to begin with.
[17:32:02] <zeeshan> i know.
[17:32:05] <zeeshan> your stuff is less critical
[17:32:13] <zeeshan> i'm just talking in general
[17:32:28] <PetefromTn_> So far I like it...
[17:32:36] <CaptHindsight> Tom_itx: on your suggestion for $3 with shipping
[17:32:38] <zeeshan> well lacquer thinner is like
[17:32:41] <zeeshan> 18$/gallon or somethjing
[17:32:47] <zeeshan> if i can use water, that'd be ultimate!
[17:32:48] <zeeshan> :D
[17:32:49] <PetefromTn_> It is easy to spray, easy to clean up. Dries fast and is hard as rock...
[17:33:03] <Tom_itx> mine are slightly different but serve the same purpose
[17:33:04] <PetefromTn_> I know the vast majority of the stuff I spray is laquer based.
[17:33:25] <PetefromTn_> Scuff sanding between coats is kind of a bitch tho.
[17:33:40] <zeeshan> why do you scuff beetween coats?
[17:33:49] <zeeshan> on a metallic paint on a car, thats a big no no
[17:33:51] <PetefromTn_> adhesion.
[17:33:54] <zeeshan> it shows up as scratches
[17:34:06] <CaptHindsight> waterborne should use DI water, using from the tap will give very mixed results
[17:34:15] <PetefromTn_> naah we are using fine sandpaper.
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[17:34:23] <zeeshan> 3000 grit?
[17:34:27] <PetefromTn_> it is more for the glaze than anything else.
[17:34:34] <PetefromTn_> Hell not man this is wood..
[17:34:49] <CaptHindsight> I'm working on waterborne UV cured coatings right now
[17:34:50] <Tom_itx> 400 or 600 more likely
[17:34:51] <PetefromTn_> 800 grit sometimes 600 grit.
[17:34:59] <zeeshan> haha
[17:35:10] <PetefromTn_> auto stuff is completely different.
[17:35:24] <zeeshan> i use trizact 5000 grit on clear coat
[17:35:28] <zeeshan> that stuff is stupid amazing
[17:35:31] <Tom_itx> i've got some 36 if you want it :)
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[17:35:39] <zeeshan> it's so fine, that you dont almost have to buff the car after
[17:36:24] <zeeshan> i wonder how well waterborne clearcoat lays down with the satajet 4000
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[17:36:44] <Tom_itx> waterborne is getting better
[17:36:53] <Tom_itx> i remember when it first came out it was pure crap
[17:36:56] <PetefromTn_> The other thing is that the clear is going over a dissimilar base coat so unlike the entirely lacquer based stuff which burns into the previous coat this stuff does not.
[17:37:02] <zeeshan> Tom_itx: when did it first come out
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[17:37:12] <Tom_itx> quite a few years back
[17:37:13] <PetefromTn_> yeah I know we have tried it over the years quite a few times..
[17:37:25] <CaptHindsight> 1/5000" is that grit size, most dirt is larger
[17:37:27] <k6mle-CNC> Hello wizards! :)
[17:37:29] <PetefromTn_> it is not exactly cheap tho..
[17:38:13] <ssi> hey k6
[17:38:17] <ssi> you get everything working?
[17:38:39] <k6mle-CNC> Good news on this MAXNC-10 upgrade to a G540 and 270 oz. steppers ...
[17:38:52] <ssi> I like good news
[17:38:59] prtksxna is now known as zz_prtksxna
[17:39:18] <k6mle-CNC> I've just run a test and have my X & Y working FLAWLESSLY! Still have a problem with Z.
[17:39:24] <CaptHindsight> waterborne became popular in the European auto industry back in the 90's for low VOC's
[17:39:35] <ssi> do you have an idea what was causing the dir miss?
[17:39:39] <ssi> or did it just clear up on its own? :)
[17:41:11] <k6mle-CNC> sis: I decided to run pncconfig from scratch ... not sure what posessed me, but no more dropped DIR's on X & Y ...
[17:41:44] <ssi> well that's good
[17:41:49] <k6mle-CNC> I think I was getting wrapped around-the-axle (so to speak!) with trying to manually edit the HAL file
[17:41:57] <ssi> what's wrong with Z?
[17:43:08] <k6mle-CNC> When I run it with gcode, it seems to sit there and vibrate ... when I run it within pncconfig to 'test the axis', it runs just fine!
[17:43:47] <archivist> check max speeds and accelerations
[17:43:50] <CaptHindsight> zeeshan: do you recall the pot-life or working time for the waterborne finishes you tried?
[17:44:18] <k6mle-CNC> arch: I have both of those set the same as I do the X & Y ...
[17:44:32] <alexchally_cnc> does anyone have a .hal with 3pwmgen implimented that I could look at.
[17:44:33] <alexchally_cnc> ?
[17:44:39] <archivist> Z is heavier so slow it down
[17:45:19] <k6mle-CNC> arch ... that makes sense! Any thoughts of how much slower it should be over X & Y?
[17:46:02] <k6mle-CNC> By as much as half?
[17:46:38] <archivist> also friction can be higher, note gravity is only working in one direction
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[17:47:00] <k6mle-CNC> yep
[17:47:18] <archivist> whatver makes it work and then slow it a bit more to give you a safety margin
[17:47:37] <k6mle-CNC> ah ... so some tweaking is in order :)
[17:50:53] <k6mle-CNC> Right now, the INI file for Z has: MAX_VELOCITY = 1.667 ; MAX_ACCELERATION = 30.0 . Are these the ones I want to adjust?
[17:51:56] <archivist> I would be playing with those values
[17:52:51] <k6mle-CNC> Okay ... I'll work with them on at a time ... will drop accel first ...
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[17:56:02] <k6mle-CNC> Well, I dropped accel from 30 to 20 to 10, with no appreciable change ...
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[17:58:11] <benjamin23> Howdy. I'm new to the CNC world. Went to a maker space the other night, and got a headache from all the stuff there. I guess the first thing I need to do is begin looking for a program to make the 2D/3D images
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[17:59:06] <benjamin23> is the software to design the 2D/3D images already with the linuxCNC distro, or do I need to find an external one?
[17:59:18] <archivist> external
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[17:59:40] <archivist> or you just write gcode by hand
[18:00:00] <benjamin23> ok. I use Ubuntu, is there a recommended program to make the images with?
[18:00:23] <ssi> cam is a whole world heh
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[18:01:45] <archivist> there is cad (make a model/design/drawing) and cam (convert a model/design/drawing to gcode)
[18:02:37] <archivist> there is more cad available than cam
[18:02:59] <alexchally_cnc> hmm, i put a backlash value into my .ini, any thoughts as to why it does not seem to be working?
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[18:03:55] <benjamin23> alright, how about a CAD program for windows?
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[18:04:22] <cpresser> benjamin23: 2D, 3D? free or paid?
[18:04:45] <benjamin23> both. I saw some of the folks at the maker space were using CADBam+
[18:04:58] <IchGuckLive> k6mle-CNC: you are the man
[18:05:02] <archivist> cambam
[18:05:32] <k6mle-CNC> Hi Ich! Making good progress ... still have some tweaking on the Z axis
[18:05:41] <PetefromTn_> hello?
[18:05:49] <benjamin23> how about OpenSCAD?
[18:05:52] <PetefromTn_> I am using CamBam..
[18:06:00] * cpresser is using "vcarve pro" for 2D jobs. It has CAD+CAM for ~500€
[18:06:21] <ssi> I use sheetcam for 2d stuff
[18:06:38] <cpresser> OpenSCAD is usefull for 3D printers, but not so much for milling. At least i dont know a good CAM to use in conjunction
[18:06:39] <PetefromTn_> I used to but I actually like CamBam better no.
[18:06:41] * archivist is using inside rear of skull, it is free
[18:07:03] <PetefromTn_> now
[18:07:04] <ssi> openscad should be capable of outputting dxf for 2d stuff, mbut I haven't sat down to figure out how
[18:07:11] <ssi> archivist: I do all my lathe cam work with that program
[18:07:14] <ssi> archivist: it works pretty well :)
[18:07:19] <benjamin23> is CamBam a competitor to the LinuxCNC?
[18:07:19] <archivist> :)
[18:07:24] <archivist> no
[18:07:24] <cpresser> FreeCAD and HeeksCAD/CAM is good
[18:07:33] <PetefromTn_> competitor?
[18:07:49] <archivist> linuxcnc is a machine control
[18:07:55] <PetefromTn_> Freecad is pretty sweet too and it only getting better...
[18:08:05] <IchGuckLive> hi benjamin23 where are yu in the workd
[18:08:25] <benjamin23> Georgia USA
[18:08:37] <ssi> what part
[18:08:40] <IchGuckLive> ok im in germany
[18:09:08] <IchGuckLive> benjamin23: what is the maingoal your CAD CAM shoudt do
[18:09:23] <IchGuckLive> 2d 3d engrave mill
[18:09:40] <benjamin23> there are a couple projects. First, is to mill PCBs as I don't like traditional acid etching
[18:09:48] <benjamin23> second is to build parts
[18:10:03] <ssi> do you have a machine?
[18:10:22] <benjamin23> nope, either going to build one, or use the one at the maker space
[18:10:27] <IchGuckLive> benjamin23: http://foengarage.de/pcb.jpg
[18:10:35] <IchGuckLive> eagle pcb2gcode
[18:10:56] <benjamin23> I've used eagle
[18:11:00] <benjamin23> and gEDA
[18:11:04] <benjamin23> and ExpressPCB
[18:11:18] <IchGuckLive> ok then you know how
[18:11:20] <benjamin23> fine job on the PCB milling Ich
[18:11:49] <benjamin23> what size milling bit did you use
[18:11:57] <benjamin23> and machine for doing the desired damage?
[18:12:04] <IchGuckLive> so use heekscad cnc it runs as well on the linuxcnc pc
[18:12:19] <k6mle-CNC> In adjusting the Z, should I consider any other variables other than : MAX_VELOCITY and MAX_ACCELERATION ?
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[18:12:34] <IchGuckLive> benjamin23: i use V engrave 0.4mm
[18:12:38] <ssi> k6mle-CNC: no that's a good place to start
[18:12:53] <ssi> k6mle-CNC: turn the accel down to like 10 and velocity to 1 and see how it runs
[18:12:56] <ssi> you can always turn it up
[18:13:32] <k6mle-CNC> ssi: okay ... I've brought velocity to .5 and accel to 6 ... it's better, but sometimes seems a bit jerky ...
[18:13:53] <ssi> jerky, eh?
[18:14:02] <benjamin23> I like jerky, ha
[18:14:03] <k6mle-CNC> not beef .. :)
[18:14:04] <ssi> can you put up some video?
[18:14:37] <benjamin23> alright, thanks for the assistance. now that I learned how to use IRC today, looks like I have a little homework to do
[18:14:41] <k6mle-CNC> I can take a video with an iPhone, but don't know how I'd post it ...
[18:14:53] <ssi> k6mle-CNC: heh I've been using Vine for that lately
[18:14:57] <ssi> it's silly, but it's quick and easy
[18:15:04] <benjamin23> K6mle: post video on youtube
[18:15:25] <PetefromTn_> just for informational purposes CamBam is also equipped with a reasonable CAD built in. It is not great but it is there.
[18:15:35] <k6mle-CNC> ben: only been a youtube viewer, never a poster ...
[18:15:43] <benjamin23> It's rather easy
[18:15:54] <ssi> youtube is slow to get stuff posted on, imo
[18:16:04] <k6mle-CNC> ssi: let me get a bit of video ...
[18:16:12] <benjamin23> I don't post videos always for viewers, most of the time it's a video for me to remember how I did something
[18:16:32] <benjamin23> it's free online "cloud" storage, so I figure why not
[18:16:49] <IchGuckLive> benjamin23: http://www.youtube.com/user/magic33de/videos infos to be seen
[18:17:10] <benjamin23> awe-some
[18:18:20] <alexchally_cnc> annny thoughts on why EMC is not picking up the backlash compensation I have specified in my ini file>?
[18:19:50] <k6mle-CNC> will check in from my office computer, where my iPhone cable is ... and see about getting this video posted ...
[18:20:13] <benjamin23> K6MLE: what? doesn't your iphone have wifi on it?
[18:20:16] <benjamin23> use that instead
[18:20:30] <benjamin23> or download a program to transfer over wifi
[18:20:38] <benjamin23> to a shared folder on your computer
[18:21:08] <benjamin23> K6MLE: if you live in reach of an allstarlink node, contact me on mine: 28569. My call is KB9LFZ
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[18:25:04] <K6MLE> Okay ... I have an MOV file ... how best to post it?
[18:25:15] <CaptHindsight> alexchally_cnc: is this new config or one that used to work but does not now for some reason?
[18:26:21] <alexchally_cnc> CaptHindsight, new config
[18:27:00] <IchGuckLive> k6 on your own homepage or youtube or ..
[18:27:01] <alexchally_cnc> CaptHindsight, http://pastebin.com/4XU3ZTaw
[18:27:17] <alexchally_cnc> just trying to work on axis0 for now
[18:27:23] <alexchally_cnc> value should be 0.0013"
[18:27:35] <IchGuckLive> im off BYE
[18:27:37] <alexchally_cnc> and note that I am driving the axis by hand
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[18:27:56] <alexchally_cnc> but I am assuming it will still do backlash comp for the encoder output
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[18:31:37] <CaptHindsight> alexchally_cnc: are your encoders on the motors?
[18:31:52] <K6MLE> Working through youtube ... should have a link shortly ...
[18:33:52] <K6MLE> Here's my Z axis as it stands right now. It's running a bit of gcode that moves Z up and down by about 1 inch each direction ... http://youtu.be/lNaqAlEUcpM
[18:35:34] <K6MLE> going to grab my lunch to eat at my desk ... back in a bit.
[18:37:26] <alexchally_cnc> CaptHindsight, they are
[18:37:56] <alexchally_cnc> oh
[18:38:03] <alexchally_cnc> i see where you are going with this
[18:38:07] <CaptHindsight> heh
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[18:41:33] <CaptHindsight> I'm not sure how Linuxcnc will respond with a closed loop servo and backlash compensation on
[18:42:33] <CaptHindsight> if the encoders are on the motors and you have play in the system after the motor output shaft the PID won't have any of that as input
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[18:43:43] <CaptHindsight> if the encoder is on say the table/carriage of the axis then it will be part of the loop
[18:44:41] <CaptHindsight> does anyone know if the backlash setting just gets ignored if you use closed loop?
[18:44:51] <alexchally_cnc> CaptHindsight, the lash is almost all in the table, I can get 0.0011" of it by just pushing on it
[18:45:15] <PetefromTn_> why does it look like that video shows a motor just sitting atop the column with nothing attaching it whatsoever LOL?
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[18:46:31] <ssi> CaptHindsight: http://media.digikey.com/photos/Tyco%20Amp%20Photos/2-5175677-7.JPG
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[18:46:54] <CaptHindsight> looks familiar
[18:47:01] <ssi> digikey is nonstock on them :(
[18:47:09] <PetefromTn_> Oh jeez man I HATE those things.. I had to deal with some on my Teco drives and soldering them was a MAJOR bitch.
[18:47:10] <ssi> mouser is nonstock
[18:47:19] <ssi> PetefromTn_: fortunately that one is IDC
[18:47:32] <PetefromTn_> unfortunately mine was NOT...
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[18:48:22] <PetefromTn_> high density connector with six and a quarter million terminals perched atop a connector that is a quarter inch across and an inch long....MISERY!
[18:48:47] <K6MLE> ssi: did you take a look at my video?
[18:48:51] <ssi> yeah
[18:48:56] <ssi> I'm not sure what's going on there :/
[18:49:40] <K6MLE> The motion of concern is more toward the end ...
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[18:52:26] <ssi> doesn't anyone in china make knockoffs of these connectors? :P
[18:53:22] <CaptHindsight> ssi: http://www.connectorpeople.com/Connector/TYCO-AMP-TE_CONNECTIVITY/2/2-5175677-7 stock $7.62
[18:55:08] <ssi> hm
[18:55:43] <CaptHindsight> ssi: the -4 for the other port is at digikey
[18:55:58] <ssi> now digikey is showing 3 in stock on the -7
[18:55:59] <ssi> weird
[18:56:18] <ssi> but it's also $18 at digikey heh
[18:56:34] <tjtr33> always soldered 'em, panasonic/yaskawa/teco(automation direct)
[18:56:49] <ssi> soldercup version might actually be better for me
[18:56:52] <PetefromTn_> mine are teco...soldered...
[18:57:14] <ssi> of course they're hard to get too
[18:57:20] <ssi> http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/3M-Electronic-Solutions-Division/10150-3000VE/?qs=QV10cN0MjFu0bVQ8rJNHgw==
[18:57:21] <PetefromTn_> I did need to use a large magnifying glass altho that may have more to do with my age than anything else LOL...
[18:57:46] <ssi> http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/3M-Electronic-Solutions-Division/10150-3000PE/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMvPYQC1fAPULJzO9BCUG%2fzVxMQsYiJw0gU%3d
[18:57:50] <ssi> that might be the new one
[18:58:09] <ssi> can't look at the datasheet without signing up for 3m's site? :(
[18:59:34] <tjtr33> the correct part is listed in mfctrs tech sheets for all the drives I'v used ( maybe expensive/hard to find find but is fersure the right connector )
[19:00:06] <ssi> tjtr33: yea that's what I'm going by
[19:00:09] <CaptHindsight> amp 2-5175677-4 and -5175677-7
[19:00:13] <ssi> but the part numbers they call out everywhere are hard to find
[19:00:28] <ssi> they list the 3M part i linked above as a soldercup version
[19:00:30] <CaptHindsight> they weren't last year, figures
[19:00:33] <ssi> the amp part is an idc crimp version
[19:01:41] <ssi> CaptHindsight: any brilliant ideas on how to go about discerning the pinouts of the servo connectors?
[19:01:53] <CaptHindsight> http://www.te.com/catalog/menu/en/17775?BML=10576,17768
[19:01:55] <ssi> CaptHindsight: from looking at the parker site, the impression I get is that it was a custom motor, and so there's no datasheets about it
[19:02:26] <CaptHindsight> custom servos, why did you order those? :p
[19:02:49] <CaptHindsight> whats the parker number on the servos?
[19:02:56] <ssi> I don't have them in front of me right now
[19:02:58] <ssi> might be in logs
[19:03:02] <ssi> irc logs
[19:07:33] <ssi> my scrollback doesn't go back far enough and I don't have local logs
[19:07:44] <CaptHindsight> same here, only 5k lines
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[19:08:39] <ssi> I'm pretty sure it's a SM231BE though
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[19:09:12] <CaptHindsight> sounds like it
[19:09:34] <CaptHindsight> B is the winding and E is 1000ppr encoder
[19:09:52] <ssi> they were advertised as 5kline, which'd be 20kppr
[19:09:54] <CaptHindsight> with Hall sensor
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[19:10:49] <CaptHindsight> maybe, bu the number doesn't match up, that could be a type/mistake/intentional misleading marketing statement
[19:10:54] <ssi> true
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[19:11:08] <ssi> I'm not sure if it was BE, but it was definitely B winding
[19:11:14] <ssi> but I don't know what that means
[19:11:20] <ssi> and I'm PRETTY sure it was 231
[19:11:29] <ssi> so the model number was like CM231B... something
[19:12:09] <PetefromTn_> did I ever mention how much I LOVE AND ADORE my new Mitutoyo Absolute Coolant Proof 8" digital caliper....it is so choice!
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[19:13:18] <CaptHindsight> just don't take off the encoder/hall sensor without marking the shaft
[19:13:27] <ssi> good tip
[19:13:32] <ssi> I pulled the back cover on one
[19:13:35] <ssi> which has the brake attached
[19:13:40] <ssi> but I don't think that should be an issue
[19:13:44] <CaptHindsight> oh, thats special
[19:13:48] <ssi> the brake?
[19:13:51] <ssi> yeah custom motors are custom
[19:14:19] <ssi> perhaps I should email the guy that sold them to me heh
[19:14:48] <CaptHindsight> there are wiring specs in the data sheet, they do usually hold to the wire colors
[19:15:04] <ssi> ooh good point
[19:15:07] <CaptHindsight> brake is red/blue
[19:15:09] <ssi> the cables are parker made
[19:15:17] <ssi> so hopefully they're colored appropriately
[19:15:35] <CaptHindsight> I've had customs that were
[19:15:50] <CaptHindsight> they can only be so custom
[19:16:09] <CaptHindsight> it's usually just some combo not in the data sheet
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[19:17:31] <CaptHindsight> I found who makes their encoders for the servos, RENCO
[19:17:52] <CaptHindsight> so $125 at RENCO, >$200 from Parker
[19:18:02] <ssi> oh cool
[19:19:19] <CaptHindsight> looks like TE is making those AMP connectors now
[19:19:32] <CaptHindsight> http://www.te.com/catalog/bin/TE.Connect?S=23558&M=FEAT&P=2354&U=&BML=10576,17768,17775&LG=1
[19:21:14] <CaptHindsight> have to compare the drawing but it might be http://www.digikey.com/product-search/en?vendor=0&keywords=1734098-5+TE%20CONNECTIVITY&WT.z_cid=sp_8004_20120425_buynow&TE_cid=8004-1406143218423
[19:21:23] <CaptHindsight> ~$8
[19:22:46] <CaptHindsight> also here http://www.ttiinc.com/page/search_results.html?step=buyNow&searchTerms=Champ%20.050%20II+Tyco%20Electronics
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[19:23:47] <CaptHindsight> TYCO was in so many lawsuits I've lost track of who owns what
[19:23:54] <ssi> looks about right
[19:24:19] <CaptHindsight> not sure on the shells or if you want one
[19:24:58] <ssi> on the 3m soldercup connectors, the shells cost more than the connectors!
[19:25:16] <jdh> who uses shells
[19:25:23] <ssi> probably not me! :D
[19:25:35] <ssi> already $45 worth of connectors for three each of those two connectors
[19:25:43] <ssi> it'd add another $60 to get the shells
[19:26:44] <CaptHindsight> look for used cables
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[19:27:12] <ssi> this is fine; ordered the connectors
[19:27:30] <ssi> now the debate is, do I hack up the existing cables to work with these connectors? or do I build subharnesses
[19:27:53] <ssi> well... the motor power side is just terminal blocks
[19:27:59] <ssi> existing cables have CPCs on them
[19:28:27] <ssi> what I may do is put the drives in an enclosure and then terminate CPCs and dsub through the enclosure for the external cables
[19:28:35] <ssi> dsub to amp champ on the inside
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[19:32:20] <alexchally_cnc> does anyone have a .hal using 3pwmgen that I could take a peak at?
[19:32:22] <alexchally_cnc> peek
[19:32:24] <alexchally_cnc> whatevs
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[19:34:25] <PCW> You are probably the only one using 3pwmgen for those odd drives (there are many example of using it for 3 phase drive with the bldc component)
[19:34:54] <alexchally_cnc> PCW, I am just having a hard time getting the hal written, I don't know what components to include in it and I am kind of at a loss
[19:35:05] <alexchally_cnc> I was just trying to find... a resource?
[19:35:15] <alexchally_cnc> mostly so I Could avoid bothering you so much
[19:35:22] <PCW> umm a standard hm2-servo shoud be very close
[19:36:11] <PCW> only a few names different
[19:36:16] <anarchos2> When I run the sample .nc (LinuxCNC) my Y axis just sorta makes noise but doesn't actually move. I can jog the Y axis no problem in both directions...any ideas?
[19:36:55] <alexchally_cnc> PCW, here is what I have as of now... I am afraid that in all my mucking around I might have messed things up? http://pastebin.com/2WyGB5G7
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[19:37:46] <alexchally_cnc> note: just trying to get axis0 working for now
[19:39:44] <CaptHindsight> alexchally_cnc: backlash comp is supposed to add the comp even with servos
[19:40:07] <CaptHindsight> how are you measuring the system so that you think it's not doing so?
[19:40:12] <PCW> look at your list of actualpins again (there's nothing with a value.value suffix for example)
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[19:41:53] <CaptHindsight> BACKLASH = 0.0013 is not very much, are you using another scale on that axis?
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[19:46:07] <alexchally_cnc> CaptHindsight, its only .0013" of lash, but it needs to be applied at the motor not the leadscrew... I will figure it out later this afternoon
[19:49:07] <alexchally_cnc> PCW, ok, the value.value has been changed to A-value, B-value etc
[19:49:12] <alexchally_cnc> and here is my list of pins http://pastebin.com/9peS4gQn
[19:49:46] <alexchally_cnc> CaptHindsight, I am measuring with a .0001" starret indicator against my vise
[19:50:24] <alexchally_cnc> and confirming with the micrometer collars on the mill
[19:50:59] <CaptHindsight> alexchally_cnc: sounds right, I just don't follow you on how it should provide comp to just the motor and not the screw
[19:51:56] <alexchally_cnc> CaptHindsight, I... was not thinking correctly
[19:52:01] <alexchally_cnc> but yeah, the value is that low
[19:52:09] <alexchally_cnc> the machine has ballscrews, but I don't think they are very nice
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[20:07:48] <k6mle-CNC> I've found that STEPGEN_MAXVEL and STEPGEN_MAXACCEL need to track MAX_VELOCITY & MAX_ACCELERATION by a +25% margin ...
[20:08:24] <k6mle-CNC> I was omitting changes to the STEPGEN variables as I changed the others!
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[20:28:25] <PetefromTn_> working on the mating part Cam here should be easier than the other part but has some cool aspects. Can't wait to see it LOL
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[20:30:02] <k6mle-CNC> Seem to have found a pair of values that give me Z movement, without the DIR misses ... now the motor's just a bit noisy ...
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[20:35:58] <alexchally_> sorry fo the connect disconnect madness everyone
[20:40:05] <anarchos2> http://leadshineusa.com/UploadFile/Down/DM422m.pdf
[20:40:14] <anarchos2> can anyone get to that file or is it down for everyone?
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[20:40:41] <anarchos2> i think there might be a typo in the linuxcnc wiki for stepper driver timing.
[20:40:53] <anarchos2> if i use the settings on the chart my drivers do nothing
[20:41:04] <anarchos2> but the default settings in stepconf work
[20:41:23] <k6mle-CNC> No problem with the link here ...
[20:42:46] <anarchos2> weird, thanks. i found the google cache version
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[20:45:04] <anarchos2> maybe i'll try the settings that all the other leadshine drivers of the same series (but higher amps) seem to use
[20:45:11] <anarchos2> mine seems to be the odd man out.
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[20:45:35] <anarchos2> because i don't see anything in the spec sheet about timing
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[20:52:12] <Deejay> gn8
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[20:59:31] <k6mle-CNC> In an X & Y test, I notice that the gcode is telling the X axis to move from .5 to 1.5, back and forth, but the actual movement is a fraction of that, perhaps only .125".... what do I need to adjust?
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[21:22:48] <K6MLE> and how is VE7 land today?
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[21:32:07] <anarchos_> Hi, I was wondering if anyone could shed some insight into a problem I am having. If I jog my axis' from AXIS it all works great, but when I run a gcode program my Y axis just makes noise and is assumingly providing holding torque, but does not spin
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[21:33:11] <fenugrec> anarchos_: with G0 or G1 ?
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[21:34:14] <anarchos_> G1
[21:34:32] <anarchos_> Z and X axis work using G1 though
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[21:35:14] <archivist> reduce your max acceleration and top speed on the axis that stalls
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[21:40:56] <anarchos_> hmm, ok
[21:41:21] <anarchos_> all three axis' are the same motor and driver
[21:41:29] <anarchos_> and are hooked up on my table with no load
[21:41:40] <anarchos_> shouldn't be a problem I don't think
[21:42:24] <fenugrec> anarchos_ did you check your .ini file if the [AXIS_1] section is the same / similar as the other axes
[21:42:26] <archivist> different loads and friction means you need different settings for speed and acceleration
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[21:43:27] <archivist> it is a mistake to think they will all max out at the same setting
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[21:45:17] <fenugrec> Is there a reason why I can't add G1 in "RS274NGC_STARTUP_CODE" in my .ini ? Doing so prevents linuxcnc from starting
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[21:48:03] <archivist> fenugrec, why would you do that
[21:48:39] <anarchos_> well you guys were right i think. if a drop my max velocity to 10 inch/min (from default 60) all my axis' works.
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[21:49:51] <fenugrec> archivist: I don't particularly need to, but the integrator manual seems to say the default is "G01 G17 G20 [...]", so I modified it to my taste (leaving G1 in there), and just spent the last 15 minutes figuring out why linuxCNC wouldn't start
[21:51:43] <archivist> fenugrec, that section is to set the mode, I cant see why you would have a g1
[21:52:28] <fenugrec> so the initial mode is G1, not G2/G3/G0...
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[21:57:58] <archivist> to me the rest of the paragraph makes more sense "This is not a substitute for specifying modal g-codes at the top of each ngc file, because the modal codes of machines differ, and may be changed by g-code interpreted earlier in the session." I put stuff like that in the gcode
[21:59:07] <fenugrec> archivist: yes, definitely have those in the ngc files as well. I'm wondering why G1 crashes linuxCNC
[21:59:13] <archivist> fenugrec, so you are doing a g12 without an F so it is an error
[21:59:17] <archivist> G1
[21:59:43] <archivist> that doc needs fixing methinks
[21:59:49] <fenugrec> Ah, you got it. I think I saw "can not do gl with zero feed rate" with some other errors
[22:00:05] <fenugrec> but that paragraph in the manual is slightly misleading
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[22:00:48] <archivist> JT-Shop, http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/config/ini_config.html#sub:RS274NGC-section g01 is an error on its own
[22:02:11] <PetefromTn_> jeez man trying to find a font to recreate this logo is gonna be the death of me LOL.
[22:02:45] <archivist> scan and trace it
[22:03:37] <PetefromTn_> already did that with another part of their logo and it was a pain this one is not so bad but there are quite a few letters and they need to be accurate.
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[22:03:52] <fenugrec> I've used http://www.myfonts.com/WhatTheFont/ with some success a few years ago
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[22:04:51] <PetefromTn_> actually I got their JPG of their logo and their is actually two fonts in it. The top is a kinda funky hollow fanged and teeth looking font and the bottom is a modern bold rounded upright looking font. Cannot find the bottom one now.
[22:05:32] <PetefromTn_> hmm that looks interesting. thanks fenugrec
[22:05:52] <PetefromTn_> I just need to now cut that jpg to only show the font I am after.
[22:05:59] <PetefromTn_> Nothing is ever easy huh.
[22:06:52] <archivist> hmm useful tou, where was that when I needed it :)
[22:06:57] <archivist> toy
[22:08:20] <archivist> my customer emailed one day and asked what font he used http://www.herronwindows.co.uk/herronlogo_b.jpg
[22:09:02] <fenugrec> I can admit it saved my sorry ass once or twice
[22:09:56] <PetefromTn_> http://imgur.com/HbaHBVg heres what I am after.
[22:10:49] <fenugrec> There's hair on the O
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[22:11:25] <PetefromTn_> bastard....How'd that get there LOL
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[22:12:37] <archivist> interesting how wtf gets the O wrong on the fonts it suggests
[22:12:51] <alexchally_> PetefromTn_: http://www.reddit.com/r/identifythisfont
[22:13:48] <PetefromTn_> what am I lookin at here man?
[22:14:33] <alexchally_> PetefromTn_: you are trying to ID a font, right? thats a place where people ID fonts for fun
[22:14:50] <ve7it> K6MLE, rainy at the moment.... a nice change
[22:15:19] <PetefromTn_> okay thanks.
[22:15:40] <PetefromTn_> I musta looked thry a bazillion different fonts trying to find the damn thing.
[22:15:45] <k6mle-CNC> ve7it: getting hotter here ... heading for the low 100's by the weekend!
[22:15:47] <PetefromTn_> I may just break down and trace it.
[22:15:55] <PetefromTn_> wheres here?
[22:16:24] <k6mle-CNC> Half way between Sacramento and Lake Tahoe ...
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[22:16:37] <PetefromTn_> damn that Font it suggested looked close enought but it costs $15 bux
[22:16:45] <PetefromTn_> Used to live in sacto.
[22:17:09] <PetefromTn_> Was stationed on the McClellan AFB Coast Guard Air Wing
[22:17:16] <k6mle-CNC> I have to work here ... it's always nice to see it in my rearview mirror ...
[22:17:25] <fenugrec> PetefromTn_ depending on how much text you want to generate with that 15$ font, you may be able use a website to output some eps/svg/ai of a sample...
[22:17:44] <PetefromTn_> just the damn letters I showed LOL.
[22:17:59] <PetefromTn_> I think I will just trace the stuff. It is MOSTLY straight lines anyways.
[22:18:06] <PetefromTn_> I need to engrave this into my parts here.
[22:18:33] <fenugrec> Can I connect HAL pins to classicladder coils from the CL GUI or do I need to stop and edit my .hal files ?
[22:18:36] <PetefromTn_> might try to engrave the funky stuff as line work and pocket these block letters out as relief work. Might look interesting.
[22:18:43] <fenugrec> (on the fly)
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[22:30:37] <archivist> PetefromTn_, wtf works with http://www.collection.archivist.info/archive/mirror/font.png
[22:32:34] <archivist> PetefromTn_, methinks http://www.myfonts.com/fonts/font-fabric/code-pro/black/
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[22:37:46] <JT-Shop> archivist, thanks
[22:37:52] <PetefromTn_> yeah that is the font I got too but it is $15 for it..
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[22:41:51] <k6mle-CNC> When I use "Z Axis Tune" to test the axis, I don't always get a direction change when alternating between the + and - buttons ... what can I look at to fix this?
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[22:47:18] <k6mle-CNC> Anyone good with pncconf?
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[22:52:58] <JT-Shop> yea, Chris on the forum is
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[22:55:17] <k6mle-CNC> Thanks JT ...
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[22:55:55] <k6mle-CNC> It's just that I'm getting a bit gun-shy about editing my HAL file ... ;)
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[22:56:52] <fenugrec> Hmm... using AXIS 2.5.4, I seem to be missing the "override limits" button... and pressing L does nothing (I'm stuck on a limit switch !)
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[23:05:27] <alexchally_cnc> PCW, much to your probable dismay, I am at it again
[23:05:43] <tjb1> Anyone using Inventor 2014 in here?
[23:06:04] <alexchally_cnc> still not seeing any pulses out of my PWM outputs, still figuring I have messed up my .hal
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[23:08:32] <Lathe_newbie> tjb1: yes im using it
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[23:08:48] <tjb1> Lathe_newbie: Do you know of any way to adjust snapping tolerance?
[23:09:03] <tjb1> It snaps to a point and I have to drag it like .5" in the model to unsnap it
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[23:12:23] <PCW> alexchally_cnc you may have to change the fault polarity
[23:13:37] <alexchally_cnc> PCW, I am not driving any actual axis right now, I am just trying to see the signal on my 'scope
[23:13:56] <alexchally_cnc> oh, i see what your talking about... I need to clear a fault condition?
[23:15:38] <PCW> the 3 phase pwm gen has a fault input (its unconnected in that config which means its tied low in the FPGA) low may be the state that triggers a fault
[23:16:49] <ssi> lol got a box of 400" of cable chain in the mail today :D
[23:17:39] <ssi> and a box of 2 channel relay cards and voltage regulators
[23:17:42] <ssi> yay china
[23:17:58] <alexchally_cnc> PCW, when I add setp hm2_5i23.0.3pwmgen.00.fault 0 to my hal I get pin setp hm2_5i23.0.3pwmgen.00.fault 0 is not writeable
[23:18:23] <PCW> thats correct
[23:18:44] <PCW> what is the state of the fault pin?
[23:19:03] <PCW> (youu can only read it)
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[23:20:02] <alexchally_cnc> PCW, TRUE
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[23:20:24] <alexchally_cnc> and axis.0.faulted = FALSE
[23:21:00] <PCW> Thats (at least one reason) why you have no PWM
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[23:22:08] <alexchally_cnc> PCW, I assume I invert that via the hal, but I am not sure how
[23:22:24] <PCW> man hostmot2
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[23:52:45] <andypugh> Gah! To get a registration for the Ner-a-Car I need _photographs_ of it. I have no idea how to get them.
[23:53:17] <andypugh> I have a bazillion images online, but an actual photograph?
[23:54:57] <ssi> got a printer? :D
[23:55:12] <andypugh> Yes, but only plain A4 paper
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[23:58:11] <andypugh> Also, it’s not printing. The printer is a Xerox Phaser 7300 connected by USB to a Raspberry Pi running Raspbian and CUPS. It is connected to the network with a USB WiFI widget and shares the printer through Avahi / Bonjour. It only seems to get 21% of the way through printing any image. I suspect that the RPi is short on memory.
[23:59:13] <alexchally_cnc> PCW, awesome! got the signal!