#linuxcnc | Logs for 2014-07-20

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[00:18:36] <andypugh> This seems cheap (so far). It also looks to me to be MT3 with an adaptor: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/390884311768
[00:23:07] <jdh> nice head. the very bottom of the tapper looks odd.
[00:23:37] <jdh> or taper.
[00:23:41] <andypugh> I think it’s an MT3 to MT4 sleeve
[00:24:33] <jdh> that was cleaned up with a grinder?
[00:24:44] <andypugh> I know how to CNC these heads :-)
[00:25:19] <jdh> what does the retainining ring hold in place?
[00:25:42] <andypugh> On that model, everything :-)
[00:26:23] <andypugh> In fact the grnding might be to allow them to get the feed mechanism past the sleeve.
[00:27:04] <andypugh> Later models had interchangeable shanks, that looks to have the MT3 integral with the body forging.
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[00:27:50] <andypugh> (They had to do that when they started offering BT / CAT etc as you can never get the feed ring past them.
[00:29:28] <jdh> http://www.bikepete.f2s.com/upa3_small.pdf
[00:29:32] <jdh> looks like the same era
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[00:31:56] <andypugh> They are very nice. I have a UPA4 that is no use to me at all, but I can’t bring myself to sell as it is quite the most nicely-made thing I have.
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[00:32:41] <andypugh> (I have, and use, a UPA3 but it is newer and not quite so “no expense spared” as the UPA4
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[00:42:50] <Roguish> back. now on new, linuxcnc computer.
[00:43:24] <Roguish> where's the best place to post the errors?
[00:43:45] <Roguish> pastebin?
[00:43:57] <jdh> sure
[00:44:04] <andypugh> http://pastebin.com
[00:45:13] <ssi> deciding what field voltage to use on 7i76 is a hard problem :(
[00:45:42] <jdh> 24
[00:45:50] <ssi> 24 sounds good on paper
[00:45:57] <ssi> but I have a bunch of relay cards on hand that are 5v coils
[00:46:13] <jdh> buy new ones
[00:46:13] <ssi> and right now, nothing in the machine is 24v
[00:46:18] <ssi> easy for you to say
[00:46:25] <jdh> sure.
[00:46:40] <jdh> for the laser?
[00:46:43] <ssi> yes
[00:47:11] <Roguish> ok. check out http://pastebin.com/BG7QQSSx
[00:48:13] <ssi> hm actually these relays are active low
[00:48:15] <ssi> so it may not matter
[00:48:29] <andypugh> jdh: If money is no object (as if) then you could use an isolated smart-serial IO board on the channel provided, then every output could work from a different voltage
[00:48:42] <jdh> money is no object
[00:48:46] <andypugh> (sorry, I meant ssi )
[00:48:47] <jdh> since it is his, not mine.
[00:49:39] <ssi> money is no object
[00:49:41] <ssi> TIME is an object
[00:49:41] <jdh> Roguish: did you install from the live CD?
[00:50:03] <ssi> (god I've officially become old)
[00:50:16] <jdh> heh. same here.
[00:51:37] <Roguish> no. installed per instuctions in wiki 'linuxcnc on ubuntu precise'
[00:51:53] <jdh> did you see the web page referenced by your error?
[00:52:54] <Roguish> concerning the memory limit? yes.
[00:53:18] <andypugh> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?LockedMemory does look like an unusually good clue. Normally the error reports are more cryptic.
[00:53:50] <andypugh> Did you make the change?
[00:54:43] <Roguish> tried to do it manually.
[00:55:06] <andypugh> I think that is the only way.
[00:55:27] <andypugh> Basically LinuxCNC needs a config change that can’t be automated.
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[00:57:51] <Roguish> just checked the file, and low and behold that line is already there!!!!!
[00:58:39] <Roguish> #ftp hard nproc 0
[00:58:40] <Roguish> #ftp - chroot /ftp
[00:58:42] <Roguish> #@student - maxlogins 4
[00:58:43] <Roguish> # End of file
[00:58:45] <Roguish> * - memlock 20480 #EMC2
[01:01:19] <Roguish> just did 'ulimit -l' and errors with 'command not found'
[01:02:52] <andypugh> That’s interesting.
[01:03:52] <Roguish> that was a 'sudo ulimit -l'
[01:05:04] <Roguish> now, a simple 'ulimit -l' (no sudo) gives a value of '64'
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[01:05:37] <andypugh> On my 12.04 machine I get 20480
[01:06:03] <Roguish> lucky you. i'm a bit short.....
[01:06:31] <andypugh> Can you try the temporary fix on the web page, and see if that fixes it, then we can try to make th permanent fix work
[01:06:46] <Roguish> ok
[01:07:42] <andypugh> Though I have to say that it doesn’t work for me
[01:08:01] <Roguish> bash: ulimit: max locked memory: cannot modify limit: Operation not permitted
[01:08:23] <andypugh> And sudo gives “command not found” ?
[01:08:27] <Roguish> yes
[01:08:32] <andypugh> (it does for me)
[01:08:42] <andypugh> Who writes these docs!
[01:09:23] <andypugh> (Oh, we do)
[01:09:53] <andypugh> Might be worth trying the /etc/pam.d/common-session thing and a reboot
[01:09:56] <jdh> ulimit is a shell built-in
[01:10:13] <andypugh> But I think yo need a Linux dude, and I am a Mac dude.
[01:10:24] <Roguish> hey, i'm a mechanical, not a programmer, so i take most of this very literally.
[01:10:36] <andypugh> jdh: You get command not found if you sudo it
[01:10:49] <Roguish> sorry to hear about that Mac thing, maybe there will be a cure some day..
[01:11:06] <andypugh> <takes a step back to let jdh be Linux Dude>
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[01:11:34] <jdh> you can't sudo a built-in. It wouldn't have any context anyway
[01:11:36] <Roguish> take it away jdh. i'm all ears.
[01:11:57] <andypugh> Hey! Macs are shiny, I like shiny things.
[01:12:08] <jdh> shiny is my favorite color
[01:13:03] <Roguish> i'm here in the Bay Area, and we have lots of apple jokes, but i need help,so quiet i'll be.
[01:13:19] <Valen> missus has said she wants lots of shiny stuff in the new house, mainly because I only clean stuff that can be polished ;-P
[01:13:34] <andypugh> So, how do we fix the “not allowed” when sudo won’t work?
[01:14:05] <jdh> it should pick up the limit from limits.conf.
[01:14:17] <jdh> start a new shell and see?
[01:14:46] <Roguish> what do you mean start a new shell? a new command window?
[01:14:53] <jdh> yeah
[01:14:57] <Roguish> ok
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[01:16:49] <Roguish> ok, new command window with 'ulimit -l' gives '64'
[01:18:13] <jdh> does sudo linuxcnc do anything different?
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[01:19:55] <Roguish> ok did thad and get: Error: could not insert module /usr/realtime-3.4-9-rtai-686-pae/modules/linuxcnc/hm2_pci.ko: Unknown symbol in module
[01:20:45] <jdh> heh
[01:20:48] <Roguish> i am running a 5i20
[01:21:10] <Roguish> 5i20 board is in the slot
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[01:21:38] <jdh> it hasn't looked for hardware yet.
[01:22:27] <jdh> is there a compelling need to run this install vs. the livecd?
[01:23:02] <jdh> the pam fix + reboot (or restart session manager) could fix the ulimit thing. This is a module mismatch though
[01:23:09] <Roguish> no. i'm getting ready for a new project.. what is the livecd? that the hybrid?
[01:24:03] <jdh> pre-config'ed everything. boot the cd (or image), install from there. Makes a known-working LinuxCNC capable ubuntu install
[01:24:21] <Roguish> which rt?
[01:25:01] <jdh> mine is: 2.6.32-122-rtai #rtai but it is old.
[01:26:00] <Roguish> i can back it all out and go the old git method. i just wanted to mess with a new rt.
[01:26:25] <jdh> I'm sure that is a known issue. I'm not bleeding edge though.
[01:27:51] <Roguish> i can do an apt-get uninstall, and then use a different branch, maybe the v2.5_branch-rt
[01:28:34] <Roguish> would / could that make a difference or just spinning the wheels?
[01:46:29] <andypugh> Roguish: Info from jepler on the -devel channel
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[01:47:20] <andypugh> It looks like you might need to log out and back in for the ulimit change to take effect
[01:47:49] <andypugh> But, I need to sleep.
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[01:53:35] <anarchos> hi
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[03:16:48] <PetefromTn> evening folks..
[03:17:45] <XXCoder> hey the pete
[03:18:01] <PetefromTn> yup the Pete LOL.
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[03:18:21] <jymmm> That bastard owes me money!!!
[03:18:30] <PetefromTn> whatsgoinon?
[03:18:43] <PetefromTn> who me hehehe
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[03:20:03] <XXCoder> http://titaniumphysicists.brachiolopemedia.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/SLKMP-PGB.jpeg
[03:20:07] <XXCoder> hes petey lol
[03:20:21] <PetefromTn> where's that ssi guy I should drive down to Georgia and kick him square in the pants LOL
[03:20:28] <XXCoder> hard to explain but basically hes godlike AI in that webcomic. orginially he wasnt
[03:21:41] <PetefromTn> I thought that home built CNC stuff was addictive and expensive but it is NOTHING compared to DIY audiophile stuff heheje
[03:22:00] <XXCoder> heard audiophiles can get overboard
[03:22:17] <XXCoder> $300 bucks for one foot cable for 0.00001% improvment of audip
[03:22:20] <PetefromTn> overboard is an understatement.
[03:23:13] <PetefromTn> I visited a nice fellow today who has basically built everything in his living room completely from parts including the amps preamps and the speaker drivers themselves..
[03:23:41] <XXCoder> ow
[03:23:45] <jymmm> Ironically, it mae better sense to put the amps in each speaker, then run analog fiber to each speaker
[03:24:02] <PetefromTn> even built the damn drivers from parts selected carefully and the enclosures were designed in cad
[03:24:33] <PetefromTn> sounded freaking glorious ...
[03:24:34] <jymmm> You dont design speakers in cad you design them in an acustic chamber =)
[03:25:14] <PetefromTn> this Guy has huge awards for speaker and amp design all over his living room
[03:25:36] <PetefromTn> he has been into this stuff for almost his whole life.
[03:26:01] <PetefromTn> he actually holds patents for several designs.
[03:26:27] <jymmm> Eh, i bet I could do the same thing for one tenth the cost =)
[03:27:10] <PetefromTn> the most recent award we saw was like six feet tall and was dated 2013 national championship spl level for car audio. apparently he designed the subwoofers for some serious car audio junkies.
[03:27:13] <XXCoder> lol and for 0.000000000000000000000000123% less guality eh
[03:27:54] <PetefromTn> that's the best part is the DIY allow you to build shit you could not possibly afford
[03:28:11] <XXCoder> like cnc lol
[03:28:18] <PetefromTn> that's the addiction part LOL.
[03:28:25] <PetefromTn> yes exactly
[03:29:06] <PetefromTn> I have a pretty decent system in my house with denon and KEF speakers and I thought it sounded great....until I met these guys LOL
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[03:30:30] <PetefromTn> My wife was like oh I don't care how much better could it really be so she came with me today and listened to it and we got home and listened to the same tracks on my system and she was like DAMN!
[03:30:49] <XXCoder> lol
[03:31:35] <PetefromTn> the clarity and smoothness of the sound is incredible really.
[03:32:00] <XXCoder> for me, world's most tinny speakersounds same as your most awesome systen
[03:32:08] <PetefromTn> so thanks to ssi I am now a junkie of another sort....jeez man LOL
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[03:32:46] <XXCoder> lol
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[03:33:53] <PetefromTn> reading about the tube amp designs is about as confusing as it was back when I first started reading the cad can cnc drop email fliers years ago....like Greek or Chinese arithmetic LOL
[03:34:16] <PetefromTn> dro
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[03:36:43] <PetefromTn> wish there was a tube amp IRC like this place with gurus like Pete and Cradek...
[03:37:31] <CaptHindsight> you have to get into the wayback machine for tube time :)
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[03:38:26] <CaptHindsight> Allied Radio, Audio Magazine, Stereo Review, Popular Electronics etc
[03:38:58] <CaptHindsight> some of the archives are online, it interesting reading them 30-40-50 years later
[03:39:15] <PetefromTn> yeah of really is amazing how far back tube amp design goes and how clean the power is.
[03:39:58] <PetefromTn> we were listening to dual monoblock EL34 amps today that were Max of 15 Watts....
[03:40:19] <PetefromTn> I cannot believe how heavy those damn things are...
[03:40:53] <PetefromTn> I tried to pick one up and look at the bottom of it and it weighed a ton LOL.
[03:41:45] <CaptHindsight> it's an old debate, with the wide voltage swing you don't get the non-linear effects near zero crossings of class-B's
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[03:42:03] <PetefromTn> He told me we probably did not go over two Watts all afternoon and it was amazingly loud at times....bit still clear as a bell.
[03:42:24] <CaptHindsight> but tubes actually behave differently each time they turn off an on
[03:42:24] <PetefromTn> these were class A amps.
[03:43:03] <CaptHindsight> it used to be that there weren't any solid state solutions for class A and high power
[03:43:05] <PetefromTn> he actually told me he seldom turns them off.
[03:43:27] <Tom_itx> PetefromTn, there's a dude in another channel that designs car audio amps for a living
[03:43:35] <PetefromTn> they have to kinda wear in apparently.
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[03:43:52] <CaptHindsight> most of the audio stuff sold today is crap
[03:44:04] <PetefromTn> yeah that is part of what this guys does tom
[03:44:25] <PetefromTn> LOL that's exactly what he says..
[03:44:47] <Tom_itx> circuits are put in place just to fool their competetion
[03:44:54] <PetefromTn> he says it is all overhyped garbage with high price tags.
[03:45:03] <Tom_itx> for the lead time it takes to make a new design
[03:45:25] <Tom_itx> highly competetive market
[03:45:43] <PetefromTn> I wish you guys could hear this stuff he built.
[03:46:33] <PetefromTn> his 10 inch custom build home Audio subwoofer weights like 28 lbs.
[03:47:34] <PetefromTn> he is working on a dual ten inch sub design to work with his sweet mid and high three way speaker system
[03:47:51] <PetefromTn> it is bi amped.
[03:48:19] <PetefromTn> has a custom built crossover for the mid to highs he designed himself.
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[03:49:28] <PetefromTn> the only thing that was kinda cheap was that the speakers were prototypes and just made from some kinda MDF board until he finalized the design.
[03:50:17] <PetefromTn> he is working on the final look of the system but is waiting on the sub setup to be finish tested.
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[03:51:19] <PetefromTn> what we heard today only had a single ten but still had some nice lows. He thinks the duals will complete the package nicely.
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[03:52:51] <PetefromTn> I don't know how much money he had in parts in the system but just chatting with him about the amps just components pricing was more than I have in my denon for each amp. so not exactly real cheap.
[03:52:55] <ssi> lul
[03:53:16] <PetefromTn> hey man..
[03:53:36] <PetefromTn> what's lul ?
[03:53:42] <ssi> me laughing at you
[03:54:13] <PetefromTn> it's all your fault man...enabler
[03:54:21] <ssi> yup
[03:54:25] <ssi> you stubborn old man
[03:54:28] <ssi> :D
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[03:54:47] <PetefromTn> who you calling old buddy hehehe
[03:55:26] <PetefromTn> I think I am gonna need to hear your 2A3's...
[03:56:03] <PetefromTn> those el34 monoblocks sounded amazing man..
[03:57:52] <ssi> were they pushpull?
[03:58:00] <PetefromTn> nope...
[03:58:07] <ssi> SE EL34 is pretty sweet
[03:58:08] <PetefromTn> single ended class a
[03:58:16] <ssi> triode mode?
[03:58:20] <ssi> or pentode/beam tetrode?
[03:58:33] <ssi> or ultralinear?
[03:58:33] <ssi> hehh
[03:58:48] <PetefromTn> he said pentode with cathode follower or something like that.it's his own custom design.
[03:59:01] <ssi> cathode follower'd likely be in the preamp stage
[03:59:24] <ChuangTzu> r4ndomt4g: hola
[03:59:25] <ChuangTzu> :)
[03:59:34] <PetefromTn> no its in the amp apparently I don't understand it. he has a custom built preamp too.
[03:59:58] <ssi> by preamp I mean driver
[04:00:21] <PetefromTn> he had a modified nakamichi turntable too that was pretty sweet.
[04:01:06] <PetefromTn> his whole house basement was a shrine to audio and custom speaker building equipment LLL
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[04:02:30] <PetefromTn> I could have spent a week there chatting about this stuff but my wife was like OKAY HONEY it's time to go home now LOL.
[04:03:49] <PetefromTn> interesting fellow he is also a fairly serious rimfire benchrest competitor. some nice anschutz 54 actions he showed me.
[04:04:16] <PetefromTn> I was like a kid in a candy store.
[04:10:53] <ssi> heh
[04:11:18] <ssi> I've got a couple kimber model 82G benchrest rimfire rifles
[04:11:30] <ssi> that I modified to give them 3oz triggers :P
[04:14:46] <PetefromTn> nice... funny how guys into one thing are into similar other things as well. I am also a competitive shooter.
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[04:15:19] <ssi> well there's guys who like to go fast, blow shit up, and make things with their hands
[04:15:24] <ssi> and then there's guys who like to play golf
[04:15:45] <PetefromTn> I am NOT a Golfer.
[04:15:48] <ssi> me either :P
[04:15:50] * jymmm is the former.
[04:16:13] <ssi> it's the active guys vs the passive guys
[04:16:31] <ssi> we all tend to be active guys, cause passive guys would never in a million years dream of doing sometihng so ludicrous as building a machine
[04:16:53] <PetefromTn> I am so glad you told me about your own home built system. I would have never met these guys and heard this beautiful sound.
[04:16:58] <ssi> heheh
[04:17:18] <ssi> so you still think your denon/kef setup is super excellent? :D
[04:17:50] <PetefromTn> of really is crystal clear with those amps. high efficiency speakers are amazing.
[04:18:03] <ssi> btw did he tell you what the power was on his EL34 SE amp?
[04:18:50] <PetefromTn> LOL I used to.. you might be surprised how good it does sound tho. but compared to his system is lacks a lot of high and midrange detail.
[04:19:10] <ssi> yea people tend to equate heavy bass with good sound
[04:19:22] <PetefromTn> he said Max 15 amps.
[04:19:28] <PetefromTn> sorry watts
[04:19:44] <ssi> sounds generous, even for pentode mode
[04:20:10] <PetefromTn> it has some rather huge transformers or whatever on there.
[04:20:27] <ssi> yep, necessary especially for SE
[04:20:38] <PetefromTn> the big ones were like six inches square.
[04:20:39] <ssi> the heavier the iron, the lower the frequency it can reproduce
[04:20:56] <ssi> transformers will be your #1 cost unless you do a big bottle triode
[04:21:06] <PetefromTn> man would I love to have a pair of those babies.
[04:21:06] <ssi> hell even if you do a big bottle triode
[04:21:16] <ssi> I only paid $200 for my 300Bs, but the iron for it will be about $400
[04:22:18] <PetefromTn> he said there are certain parts you can get a bit cheaper without sacrificing sound quality but some you just gotta buy good ones.
[04:22:34] <ssi> yep
[04:22:39] <ssi> transformers are critical
[04:22:45] <ssi> lots of people say caps are too
[04:22:56] <PetefromTn> he said he would give me a schematic for his amp since I am now a club member LOL.
[04:22:58] <ssi> some people aren't convinced :)
[04:23:09] <ssi> haha cool
[04:24:16] <PetefromTn> his stuff is more along the lines of it is not pretty to look at but he does whatever is necessary to make the sound top notch. I kinda want both...
[04:24:46] <PetefromTn> the amps are quality but no polsihed aluminum and brass etc etc.
[04:24:56] <ssi> I tried to make mine reasonably nice, but nothing crazy
[04:25:09] <jymmm> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xGTbQuhhluY
[04:25:24] <PetefromTn> your amps looked nice man nothing like the warm glow of a tube amp LOL.
[04:26:06] <ssi> jymmm: haha awesome
[04:26:27] <PetefromTn> there are some absolutely gorgeous amps and speakers out there that are DIY built.
[04:26:53] <ssi> yeah man only golfers go out and buy $30k tube amps
[04:27:08] <jymmm> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cTMN_KobQF4
[04:27:09] <PetefromTn> it may take me forever to build something like this but I think I have no choice now hehehe
[04:27:31] <ssi> :)
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[04:28:01] <PetefromTn> on the way back we found a nice little sushi restaurant too BONUS!!
[04:29:09] <PetefromTn> I PIGGED out on shrimp tempura and sweet avocado rolls damn it was gooooood..m
[04:31:05] <PetefromTn> what do you think the difference would be from your 2A3's to his EL34 amps?
[04:31:28] <PetefromTn> besides Max power I mean..
[04:32:27] <jymmm> https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=uyoa3wqguP8#t=0
[04:34:21] <PetefromTn> that nitro methane is nuts huh.... I remember the first time I ever saw a top fuel dragster in person. Doug Kalitta damn things sound like a maniacal evil beast from hell LOL
[04:35:02] <ssi> 2A3 will be warmer and more detailed
[04:35:07] <PetefromTn> you can literally feel the power deep in your chest as they go by at 330 MPH..
[04:35:49] <PetefromTn> really wow that would be amazing then. I gotta hear your stuff man..
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[04:37:36] <ssi> come on down :)
[04:38:08] <PetefromTn> I still can't get over how warm and smooth some of those LPs he played sounded.
[04:38:18] <ssi> yep
[04:39:35] <PetefromTn> he played some old Linda Ronstadt records and she sounded amazing. he also played a lot of smooth jazz. beautiful stuff. I brought down some Pink Floyd Division Bell and some of my other favorites.
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[04:40:13] <ssi> I've never really been a jazz guy, but I sort of feel like I should ease into it
[04:40:17] <ssi> especially since this system is really good for it
[04:40:19] <PetefromTn> he is an older fellow probably in his late 60's but he likes all kinds of music.
[04:40:21] <ssi> I dunno where to start tho
[04:40:22] <ssi> heh
[04:40:49] <PetefromTn> I honestly never heard of most of it LOL.
[04:41:04] <ssi> anyway I gotta run out and pick up a power supply from a friend
[04:41:11] <ssi> then I'm probably going to bed... gotta be up at 7 to go sailing :P
[04:41:18] <PetefromTn> he played some Diana Krall and some Moran Jones too that was nice.
[04:41:20] <ssi> talk to ya tomorrow eve :)
[04:41:37] <PetefromTn> Cya man..
[04:41:58] <PetefromTn> norah Jones...sorry
[04:42:17] <PetefromTn> I better hit the sack too
[04:42:28] <PetefromTn> nite all..
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[05:31:24] <ssi> anyone know offhand how much current the 7i76 needs from the 5v provided from 5i25?
[05:31:39] <ssi> I want to try to run this relay card from it as well, and the relay card needs 640ma with all relays on
[05:31:50] <ssi> 5i25 can supply 1A per daughtercard
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[06:37:11] <Tecan> there i got it with a relay
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[06:54:13] <Deejay> moin
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[10:37:48] <Loetmichel> *yaaaawn*... mornin'!
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[10:49:25] <JesusAlos> yep
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[10:50:47] <archivist> JesusAlos, http://tog.acm.org/resources/GraphicsGems/
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[10:52:22] <JesusAlos> It seems interesting
[10:52:51] <JesusAlos> I study it
[10:52:56] <JesusAlos> thank archivist.
[10:54:37] <archivist> there is a connect algorithm for connecting boxes that you could adapt to join letters or entities
[10:55:48] <archivist> happens to be on my box as I used it http://www.archivist.info/erd/con2d.c.txt
[10:57:22] <JesusAlos> for what project you use?
[10:57:29] <archivist> I converted to php almost identical
[10:57:32] <archivist> http://www.archivist.info/erd/con2d.php.txt
[10:57:55] <archivist> used it to draw a database ERD diagram
[10:59:55] <jymmm> Graphic Gems?
[11:00:13] <archivist> http://www.archivist.info/erd/erd.php?drawing=1
[11:00:24] <archivist> from the books yes
[11:01:10] <archivist> I should implement a linuxcnc hal version
[11:01:11] <jymmm> it does org charts?
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[11:02:04] <archivist> there may be that type of chart in the books dunno
[11:02:24] <jymmm> I was just tryinng to figure out WHAT it is
[11:06:04] <jymmm> That's just a hella lot of code/maths for an org chart in comparison to http://codepad.org/S2HOq9U9
[11:08:13] <archivist> it is a different language
[11:09:14] <jymmm> Wouldn't matter; It's still a a lot of math/code
[11:10:10] <archivist> you fail to see the language difference, it is probably very similar
[11:11:03] <jymmm> Did you run the code I linked to?
[11:11:20] <jymmm> err PostScript
[11:11:31] <archivist> there is no understanding line 12 for example unless you know PS
[11:15:10] <archivist> comparing obfuscated and shortened PS to commented C
[11:22:52] <jymmm> looks awfully repetitive.
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[11:33:19] <archivist> stand back and look at the block similarity in the ps version, I think it is the same algorithm
[11:35:02] <jymmm> Sure, for RGB, but not excessively so.
[11:35:52] <archivist> those 3 blocks are for the exit points of a box
[11:36:19] <jymmm> in the link you gave?
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[14:14:52] <andypugh> pcw_home: My lathe has gone down, and I have things I want to make. The problem is with one of my home-made optical limit switches. I think I will swap it for an inductive proximity switch, but I am not sure how to connect that to the 7i43 IO pins. This machine has a sort-of home-made BoB with ULN chips on outputs, and most of the inputs wired diect from opto-sensors.
[14:15:42] <andypugh> I guess that the safe way to do it would be to drive an optocoupler from the proximity sensor, but I am wondering if there is a simpler way
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[14:16:55] <andypugh> I suspect that it would be easier if the Prox wasn’t NPN
[14:17:20] <archivist> npn open collector?
[14:17:34] <archivist> easy to drive an opto with that
[14:18:03] <andypugh> Yes, but I was planning on making stuff today, not pcbs.
[14:18:18] <archivist> rats nest wiring
[14:21:03] <archivist> or rip something to bits to get stuff to fix current limit switch
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[14:27:04] <andypugh> It is encapsulated in Fimo
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[14:31:05] <pcw_home> 3 wire NPN?
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[14:32:51] <archivist> which side failed the led or the sensor, saw in half, make other side
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[14:35:59] <pcw_home> a 3 wire NPN sensor will drive a 7I43 input directly (since its just a open or short to ground on the output)
[14:37:40] <pcw_home> but a wiring mistake(open gnd or miswire) could be bad since those sensors often need at least 12V to operate
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[14:39:14] <JesusAlos> by
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[16:03:22] <CaptHindsight> many of the lower cost NPN and PNP proximity sensors come with terrible info on how they actually work or how to connect them for you application
[16:03:27] <CaptHindsight> http://www.ibestchina.com/UploadFiles/2005122102828261.gif
[16:08:51] <CaptHindsight> http://img.alibaba.com/img/pb/517/981/505/505981517_675.jpg lol
[16:10:21] <archivist> I am amazed at the lack of documentation quality over there
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[16:35:35] <CaptHindsight> archivist: it's an interesting dilemma, they won't ask or correct each other so that nobody loses face
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[16:36:43] <IchGuckLive> hi all
[16:40:47] <XXCoder> hey
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[16:45:07] <Deejay> re
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[17:04:54] <XXCoder> wb
[17:05:03] <jdh> thanks
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[17:11:27] <seltecc> hi everyone...
[17:11:35] <syyl_ws> mh
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[17:11:42] <IchGuckLive> ;-)
[17:13:38] <IchGuckLive> seltecc: how is weather in berlin
[17:14:00] <seltecc> beautiful.....
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[17:17:24] <IchGuckLive> ravenlock: is your 4 axis running well
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[17:25:22] <XXCoder> wild guess: no? lol
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[17:32:59] <syyl_ws> there is no gcode to rotate the coordinate system, isnt it?
[17:33:38] <syyl_ws> oh
[17:33:39] <syyl_ws> there is
[17:36:00] <syyl_ws> that is nice
[17:36:35] <andypugh> pcw_home: Thanks. Lathe working again. Now what was it I was going to make?
[17:39:08] <pcw_home> ahh cmon, you're not that old...
[17:39:37] <XXCoder> dilios., what else? loo
[17:39:39] <XXCoder> lol
[17:39:47] <andypugh> It is more a case of which of the many jobs on the list was the one I had intended to do today.
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[17:43:16] <pcw_home> roll the dice...
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[17:44:36] <archivist> or pick from the top of the pile
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[17:48:34] <IchGuckLive> hi fenugrec
[17:48:44] <fenugrec> Hi fellas
[17:49:19] <IchGuckLive> still all axes moving ;-)
[17:50:30] <fenugrec> I don't usually do this, but I want to clone a linuxcnc installation to a new HDD; apart from copying the filesystem what else will I need to do ? Update the UUID in the grub configs and in fstab; anything else ?
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[17:51:18] <fenugrec> Plan B is to re-install from the linuxCNC live CD, and copy /etc/* and /home/* to the new install
[17:51:27] <jdh> dd(1)
[17:51:35] <IchGuckLive> fenugrec: plan B ias good to go
[17:51:35] <fenugrec> not sure which is faster; I'm allowing myself 10 minutes to think about it
[17:51:52] <IchGuckLive> fresh is 45min and you will get a full new system
[17:52:44] <fenugrec> ok, I'm almost sold.
[17:53:53] <IchGuckLive> dont forget to go to 2.5.4
[17:54:09] <IchGuckLive> on upgrat with synaptic linuxcnc only
[17:54:15] <IchGuckLive> to get the big benefit
[17:55:36] <seltecc> anyone in berlin using the xbox kinect for 3d scans?
[17:56:14] <IchGuckLive> the new Blender got a interface for direct stl to 3d printing at kinect input
[17:58:26] <fenugrec> Other topic : I would have a small patch to propose for /docs/src/install/Latency_Test.txt ; just a few words mentioning "hdparm -tT /dev/sda" as an excellent way to test worst case jitter
[17:59:08] <fenugrec> Where can I submit it for review ? do I file a bug somewhere?
[17:59:15] <IchGuckLive> fenugrec: do that inside develc irc
[17:59:19] <fenugrec> ok
[17:59:52] <IchGuckLive> hdparm might intersept the second core
[18:00:10] <IchGuckLive> you need to clean at grub to isoplus
[18:00:36] <fenugrec> IchGuckLive : what do you mean ? what second core ?
[18:01:39] <IchGuckLive> the HDD parameter intersects to multicore to get better access
[18:04:29] <fenugrec> not sure I understand. But on HDD #1 I had, max jitter would go from 10us to >500us when running "hdparm -t /dev/sda" ; now with HDD #2 running "hdparm -t /dev/sdb" has no effect on max jitter. This is one a single-CPU system.
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[18:05:58] <pcw_home> if you have a disk transfer error rt typically goes south
[18:06:26] <IchGuckLive> sdb will not effect at all as sda contains bin
[18:08:36] <fenugrec> In my case, HDD #1 was promising after 1-2 hours of latency-test, but after 12h sometimes max jitter would spike up at certain disk accesses. hdparm -t just runs a representative (although extreme) test that allows one to find a problem that might not show up unless doing very long latency tests
[18:09:05] <IchGuckLive> you normaly dont run g-code at 2hr
[18:09:30] <pcw_home> look at the SMART data for drive #1, it may be failing
[18:09:42] <fenugrec> IchGuckLive: I'm pretty sure I isolated the problem. I can also boot from the liveCD, (so sda is not used by the OS), run "hdparm -t /dev/sda" and the jitter would still explode.
[18:10:24] <fenugrec> pcw_home : no, I checked. It's DMA-related I think. I tried deactivating or changing the DMA mode but hdparm doesn't work with the new ATA drivers
[18:10:45] <IchGuckLive> ok up to you
[18:10:47] <gene78> google says there are at least 2 gcode markup utils for gedit. Apparently my backup recovery is incomplete.
[18:10:59] <pcw_home> sure its not a interface CRC error?
[18:11:08] <gene78> where can I dl the best one?
[18:11:21] <fenugrec> pcw_home: SMART showed nothing of the sort...
[18:11:55] <IchGuckLive> gene78: http://cnc-club.ru/forum/viewtopic.php?t=80
[18:12:08] <pcw_home> OK Just saying I have seen the same behavior with a failing drive
[18:12:24] <fenugrec> IchGuckLive: the idea is to have a system I can trust; with the previous HDD I knew sometimes the latency would be way off. I'm just suggesting that "hdparm -t" can be used to find this kind of problem reliably
[18:13:53] <IchGuckLive> fenugrec: so goto the wiki latency problems and write a note
[18:13:54] <fenugrec> pcw_home : it could very well be failing; it's an old IDE drive; maybe its SMART report just doesn't contain the relevant info.
[18:14:40] <IchGuckLive> im off BYE
[18:14:44] <fenugrec> IchGuckLive: parts of the wiki seemed to be copied from /docs/installed/Latency_Test.txt , I was thinking of editing both
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[18:15:51] <gene78> Thats the one, thank you.
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[18:21:24] <gene78> humm, its an xml script, how do I exec it to install?
[18:21:45] <gene78> sh complains about a newline in line 1
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[18:22:32] <gene78> needs a "d2u" applied?
[18:24:11] <gene78> and no d2u on that machine... Grrr
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[18:28:27] <gene78> And, synaptic can't find it. Bummer
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[18:30:11] <archivist> check name
[18:32:55] <gene78> its in another util pkg, but I've not found it, still looking though
[18:34:08] <archivist> dos2unix
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[18:42:01] <r4ndomt4g> heya all, im having a problem with random z drift on a "closed loop" taig dsls. over lots of z motions it loses its home, sometimes it averages out and sometimes it drifts off over a mm or more. G61 seems to help when the back-and-forth distance is constant, but for example if i run some test code with just a bunch of random little z back-and-forths and a dial i can see the home drifting all over t
[18:42:02] <r4ndomt4g> he place..any ideas?
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[18:42:49] <archivist> r4ndomt4g, make sure the dirdelay is set ok
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[18:43:06] <gene78> and synaptic is not showing it to me, adding more repo's now
[18:43:11] <archivist> might be losing the step at a reverse
[18:43:34] <archivist> gene78, dos2unix is on my ubuntu box
[18:43:49] <archivist> no futzing to find it
[18:44:40] <gene78> and the files window goes blank when I add the 2 to dos. WTF?
[18:46:38] <gene78> Thats in the quick search windowbox. Is it on the install cd?
[18:47:17] <archivist> open a terminal type dos2unix
[18:47:43] <archivist> no gui crap
[18:48:41] <gene78> command not foiun
[18:48:48] <r4ndomt4g> archivist: would a quick test of that be to insert G4's between direction changes? ill give that a try now
[18:48:48] <gene78> command not found
[18:49:19] <archivist> r4ndomt4g, not really you need to actually increase the delay
[18:50:51] <r4ndomt4g> ok thnx ill give it a try
[18:50:56] <archivist> gene78, http://www.virtualhelp.me/linux/164-dos2unix-missing-ubuntu-1004
[18:51:36] <archivist> this box is 8.04 :)
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[19:06:38] <gene78> did all that, no bisquit, unexpected newline in line 1 when I do an "sh ./gcode.lang"
[19:06:53] <gene78> damn I am feeling dumb!
[19:10:22] <gene78> Must be time to go build a pot of coffee...
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[19:31:34] <r4ndomt4g> tried a bunch of different direction timing values, no change
[19:32:48] <r4ndomt4g> its frustrating because the drifting seems totally random even for the same set of code
[19:34:48] <r4ndomt4g> but if the z moves up and down by say a constant mm and G61 is on, there's no drift whatsoever
[19:36:00] <r4ndomt4g> the closed loop system isn't throwing any flags for missed steps
[19:36:52] <archivist> r4ndomt4g, another possibility is a dumb drive that powers down after x time, these can lose steps, is g61 producing less dwell time so stopping that power down
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[19:37:32] <archivist> mechanical slip of the coupling catches out a number of users too
[19:38:16] <archivist> which side of your coupling is the feedback
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[19:40:58] <r4ndomt4g> optical encoders on the back of the steppers, i call it pseudo-closed loop because the driver kind of caches a certain number of steps but then just throws up an error if it ends up missing any
[19:41:04] <r4ndomt4g> at least thats how i understand it
[19:41:51] <archivist> that would tend to say you have a mechanical problem
[19:45:41] <r4ndomt4g> i've checked that out too and could still be the case, but the z is pretty solid and backlash is generally under 0.001". its pretty new and i keep it pretty clean and lubed, its just these crazy engravings with lots of varying z motions that i notice any trouble
[19:47:19] <archivist> had couplings come loose on mine too, been there done that :)
[19:47:43] <archivist> this is not a backlash effect
[19:49:32] <r4ndomt4g> i've suspected power quality too but i'd rather start taking apart the axis than spring for a good power conditioner just yet
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[19:55:40] <r4ndomt4g> heya ChuangTzu! wanna come see some taig guts? lol
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[20:07:24] <gene78> got it, 4th time thru the .ru page I found where to put it, and now it Just Works. Nother problem whupped.
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[20:20:31] <somenewguy> r4ndomt4g: a fellow taig operator
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[20:25:22] <somenewguy> how did you adjust ur gibs and bronze nut? took me a while to make mine happy
[20:25:55] <somenewguy> I bought mine from a guy who sounded like he used it alot, but the wear is not crazy but everything was setup wrong so I got pretty intimate w/ it the first few weeks
[20:26:34] <somenewguy> unheated work space in the dead of winter lead to a lot of lost steps untill it warmed up, very hard to dial it all in right, narrow range of happy settings
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[20:48:14] <r4ndomt4g> somenewguy: i've been hesitant to mess with the factory torques on em (heard they could be pretty touchy) but thats what im looking into next
[20:52:08] <somenewguy> they aren't too bad, just get a large section of bench and 4 hours to get the Z right
[20:52:24] <somenewguy> there are a handfull of youtube videos from the mfr that layout how to adjust it all
[20:52:37] <somenewguy> most of your time will be wasted getting the belt straight again
[20:52:45] <somenewguy> did you CNC a manual mill, or add encoders to a cnc model?
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[20:54:35] <r4ndomt4g> ha yeah the belt was such a pain, now i keep like 3 backups. its the dsls 3000, came with the encoders and whatnots
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[20:58:17] <somenewguy> r4ndomt4g: I shocklingly have yet to break one, but it is clearly wearing. heres atip: it can be quieter!
[20:59:11] <somenewguy> best way to tell you finally aligned it well is fiddling with it at all makes it louder lol, when the belts straight hte machine is quite quiet. I don't konw why they added the encoder motors, since they have the same torque as before, but teh integrated spindle on/off is really nice!
[20:59:21] <somenewguy> I added that to mine
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[21:00:08] <somenewguy> I was thining about addign an encoder w/ like 1/8 resolution on the Z axis, jsut to let the machine know when it lost steps, but i dont see the value as being high enough
[21:00:14] <somenewguy> I'd rather a BLDC spindle motor!
[21:00:26] <somenewguy> bbl, picking up a new compressor
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[21:03:05] <ChuangTzu> r4ndomt4g: lol
[21:04:34] <Deejay> gn8
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[21:55:32] <Loetmichel> *sweating like a pig* ... i should bring back the wire coat hangers to the dry cleaner more often. just cleaned up the laundry room... got three boxes full of wire hangers after sorting the big pile... about 600 pcs... :-(
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[22:54:50] <jthornton> get rich at the scrap yard with all that
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[23:16:58] <andypugh> Cheap welding rods for cheap parts.
[23:17:37] <andypugh> r4ndomt4g: Try lower accel settings as an experiment.
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[23:22:42] <andypugh> Loetmichel: The internet is not very helpful for the term “sweating like a pig”. Which is interesting. Bascally pigs don’t sweat, but this alternaive explanation here is even more wrong: http://www.neatorama.com/2011/08/29/the-expression-sweating-like-a-pig-has-nothing-to-do-with-pigs/#!biPa2G
[23:23:23] <andypugh> The idea that you would wait until there was condensation on your newly cast iron is just silly.
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[23:30:40] <ChuangTzu> lol
[23:39:45] <andypugh> Night all
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[23:42:18] <jdh> the worst is about.com
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[23:45:22] <ssi> hi
[23:50:35] <jdh> not in years
[23:50:48] <ssi> did you get all boring?
[23:51:01] <jdh> pretty much
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