#linuxcnc | Logs for 2014-07-12

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[00:12:01] <anarchos> so the PC I plan on using with LinuxCNC came back with a 22k jitter score after running all night. if i end up finding it's not working out for me, i could in theory use one of these with the same pc?
[00:12:02] <anarchos> so the PC I plan on using with LinuxCNC came back with a 22k jitter score after running all night. if i end up thinking
[00:12:15] <anarchos> http://store.mesanet.com/index.php?route=product/product&path=83_85&product_id=58
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[00:12:44] <andypugh> Yes.
[00:12:55] <andypugh> But 22k isn’t _awful_
[00:13:18] <anarchos> yeah, i'm gonna wait and see how it all works out
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[00:13:45] <andypugh> You are more likely to be bitten by lack of pins than lack of steps
[00:15:15] <andypugh> If you run out of pins then it probably makes more sense to buy the 6i25 than a second parport, as the 6i25 can be a second parport (at 3x the price of a parport card) bit is so much more too.
[00:15:24] <anarchos> yeah
[00:16:01] <anarchos> i'd also probably need a daughter card too, huh?
[00:16:41] <andypugh> Words that I always miss-type. “but” -> “bit” and “Python” -> “Pythin”. I actually typed “Pythin” when typing that sentence.
[00:17:22] <andypugh> You can use the 6i25 as a parport, with the same hardware you have now
[00:17:52] <anarchos> yeah i suppose it makes no difference, eh
[00:17:53] <andypugh> The only difference is that suddenly your step-rate resolution is Mhz not kHz
[00:18:10] <anarchos> i have one of those cnc4pc ethernet breakout boards
[00:18:14] <anarchos> works pretty spiffily
[00:18:41] <andypugh> Ethernet? With LinuxCNC?
[00:19:18] <andypugh> Or are you talking only about the cabling?
[00:19:21] <anarchos> nah just uses cat5 for cabling between breakout board/drivers/spindle control/limit switches
[00:19:30] <andypugh> Ah, right.
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[00:20:54] <andypugh> It is possible to run hardware through an actual Ethernet socket, but not in mainline LinuxCNC: http://youtu.be/2HdikHRXnAs
[00:22:42] <anarchos> heh
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[00:24:16] <anarchos> what's the difference between a 5i25 super port and 6i25 super port?
[00:24:37] <anarchos> my eyes go wobbly trying to read and and forth and compare the two
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[00:51:47] <andypugh> 5i25 is PCI, 6i25 is PCIe
[00:52:13] <andypugh> The connector at the bottom of the card is different, where it plug in to the motherboad
[00:53:27] <anarchos> yeah, i figured that part out :P. just wondering if there was any other differences.
[00:53:57] <anarchos> my cnc pc has one pcie x16 and 1 low profile pci slot
[00:54:49] <andypugh> No. In fact the 6i25 uses 5i25 bitfiles
[00:55:31] <anarchos> cool, thanks
[00:56:15] <gene78> hi guys
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[00:57:08] <gene78> trying to run mesaflash from the latest master, but needs something setuid.
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[00:57:33] <gene78> but setuid can't be found. What package is it in?
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[01:00:25] <andypugh> Are you sure that is what you need?
[01:00:50] <andypugh> Are you using ./mesaflash?
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[01:30:09] <jdh> http://raleigh.craigslist.org/tls/4559424796.html
[01:30:51] <jdh> I see a crossslide. maybe.
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[01:36:07] <andypugh> I see scrap
[01:36:19] <jdh> not just scrap. there is also trash
[01:36:40] <andypugh> I like the motor
[01:39:20] <andypugh> Actually, I think that “Reeves” is the neat motorised overdrive unit, and the lathe is something else.
[01:39:21] <XXCoder1> wow
[01:39:29] <XXCoder1> one of worse item pics I ever seen
[01:39:37] <XXCoder1> is guy selling lathe or pile of shit?
[01:39:45] <jdh> hard to say
[01:40:43] <andypugh> The more I look the more curious I become.
[01:41:15] <XXCoder1> offer $100 to haul everything in pic away
[01:41:31] <XXCoder1> its cheap for guy to pay you $100 ;)
[01:41:59] <andypugh> It is actually the best of its kind i have ever seen
[01:42:56] <andypugh> (and the worst)
[01:43:10] <andypugh> It is a very unusual device.
[01:45:13] <andypugh> I _think_ there is a belt drive to the front of a gearbox, then a shaft out to an outboard head bearing, then the chuck. Which is an arrangement I have never seen, even after re4ading all of lathes.co,uk
[01:46:19] <XXCoder1> random thought... wonder if its possible to take a drill press, place it on side and add rails and end tail
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[01:47:08] <andypugh> Yes. It is entirely possible. it might also be stupid :-)
[01:47:24] <XXCoder1> why?
[01:48:11] <andypugh> Google indicates that “Reeves” made lathe drive systems, so I suspect the lathe is something else. My subconcious is saing “LeBlond”
[01:49:55] <andypugh> A drill press has the wrong bearings for a lathe. Making the tail-stock and rails align with the axis of the drill will be hard. You will end up with a poor lathe after spending time + more money than the cost of a poor lathe.
[01:50:09] <XXCoder1> lol ok. thanks
[01:50:17] <XXCoder1> shit lathe is like $100
[01:50:46] <archivist> worst picture, but under the crap there might be a nice 1930's toy
[01:50:50] <andypugh> I bought a Rivett 608 for £120
[01:51:28] <andypugh> That was a lathe that cost $2000 in 1936
[01:51:43] <andypugh> (When a Myford ML4 was £60)
[01:52:54] <andypugh> archivist: Quite a big 1930s toy, and it doesn’t scream “quality”. I actually would put it earlier than 1930.
[01:54:15] <archivist> dunno, it is well hidden, it has enough rods driving the saddle to be a better/later than earlier
[01:54:42] <andypugh> True, bit also quite a small saddle.
[01:54:59] <andypugh> Sorry, small apron I mean
[01:55:09] <archivist> but the suggested $900 is over the top for the quality of picture and description
[01:56:01] <anarchos> hmm, $2900 + $100/mo storage fee for a 40' shipping container. I could possibly make a sweet shop in it :P
[01:56:20] <anarchos> would be better than my 4'7 foot storage room i use right now :P
[01:56:33] <jdh> how tall are you?
[01:56:43] <anarchos> sorry i mean 4'x7'
[01:56:48] <archivist> containers have a lot of condensation in the winter
[01:56:48] <XXCoder1> anarchos: there is places here in washington you can buy shipping box for $3,000
[01:56:54] <XXCoder1> and its yours and no rent
[01:57:09] <jdh> if you have a place to put it.
[01:57:09] <XXCoder1> arch add a proper vent
[01:57:15] <anarchos> yeah this deal is you buy it, and then you get to keep it on their land
[01:57:23] <XXCoder1> its not like you plan to actually ship it.
[01:57:25] <anarchos> since i live in an apartment...no room for a shipping container :P
[01:57:26] <XXCoder1> ohh
[01:57:36] <archivist> XXCoder1, vent wont cure the steel and lack of insulation
[01:57:39] <jdh> with power?
[01:57:49] <anarchos> idunno
[01:58:10] <anarchos> would be nice if it could have 3 phase :P
[01:58:49] <andypugh> No real need with inverters as cheap as they now are
[01:59:51] <andypugh> I like: Lights-out running of my mill.
[02:00:27] <andypugh> I don’t like: Rmembering it is running and finding a broken cutter and 1 hour’s worth og swarf 4 hours later.
[02:01:14] <XXCoder1> lol
[02:01:28] <XXCoder1> better that than findingf broken mill
[02:01:56] <andypugh> It’s quite a sturdy little mill :-)
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[02:02:36] <XXCoder1> lol ok
[02:02:37] <anarchos> it's real tempting, i should find out if i can have power
[02:02:49] <anarchos> i already pay $35/mo to store my snowmobile
[02:02:59] <XXCoder1> wonder if its cheaper to rend a storage
[02:03:02] <anarchos> so it's really only $65/mo :P
[02:03:04] <XXCoder1> it definitely has power
[02:03:13] <anarchos> not around here, no.
[02:03:34] <XXCoder1> it has light correct?
[02:03:38] <anarchos> i looked into getting a real storage locker for my sled, and it was gonna be $130/mo for like a 10x4' room
[02:03:51] <XXCoder1> use a doubler and plug in socket adoptor ;)
[02:04:07] <jdh> buy two and move in to the other one.
[02:04:10] <anarchos> my sleds stored in a can right now
[02:04:14] <anarchos> lol, that would be sweet
[02:04:32] <XXCoder1> the sled will evenually cost more than it orginially cost to be stored
[02:05:03] <anarchos> i only paid $900 for it, and rebuilt the engine and i've already paid like $400 in storage fees over the last year and a half :P
[02:05:24] <XXCoder1> lol
[02:05:41] <jdh> use it much?
[02:05:47] <anarchos> yup
[02:05:52] <anarchos> moreso during the winter :P
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[02:07:27] <anarchos> https://www.dropbox.com/s/wwbxrsbzc6167ok/2014-03-31%2013.02.39.jpg
[02:07:45] <anarchos> there she be, right before i put her to bed for the summer
[02:08:01] <jdh> the whole concept of that is just boggling to me.
[02:08:10] <andypugh> Yeah, looks like it could use more snow
[02:08:37] <anarchos> heh. it
[02:08:52] <anarchos> heh. it's a mountain sled, i'm sure if i really wanted i could find some snow to ride it on right now
[02:08:56] <anarchos> just gotta go waaay up
[02:09:08] <jdh> how do you get it to the snow?
[02:09:40] <anarchos> well when that pic was taken you could drive up the Duffy Lake road, which gains quite a bit of elevation, and ride from the road
[02:09:45] <andypugh> I see snow in the photo, but it looks rather steep (and I speak as a keen off-piste skier)
[02:09:50] <anarchos> right now....logging roads
[02:10:26] <anarchos> i bet the hurley pass would be dooable
[02:10:54] <anarchos> would have snow on it this time of year if they didn't plow it
[02:11:36] <andypugh> So, you are probably not in Florida, at a guess?
[02:11:48] <anarchos> andy, i skied that (mt currie) last year :D
[02:12:37] <andypugh> The coulour or the cliff?
[02:13:07] <anarchos> right above the roofs on the right there's like a triangular tree covereed piece
[02:13:29] <anarchos> we came out of the chute on that pieces lower left
[02:14:09] <anarchos> access off the top was via rapelling a 20' cornice :D
[02:14:11] <andypugh> More snow than in the photo?
[02:14:27] <andypugh> That’s pretty hardcore :-)
[02:14:54] <andypugh> (less hardcore than jumping a 20’ cornice, but probably wiser)
[02:15:22] <anarchos> it was really my first hardcore experience like that. i rock climb so done tons of rapping but first time doing it from a dead man burried in snow :P
[02:15:57] <skunkworks_> andypugh: http://electronicsam.com/images/KandT/testing/DSC_1915.JPG
[02:15:57] <andypugh> I am pretty good for a british skier, which makes me pretty poor compared to anyone who lives somewhere with snow
[02:16:39] <skunkworks_> http://electronicsam.com/images/KandT/testing/DSC_1917.JPG
[02:16:40] <anarchos> hanging off two small pieces of aluminum channel burried under two feet of snow is a bit unearving :P
[02:16:46] <andypugh> skunkworks_: It’s a Thing! What sort of thing is it?
[02:17:10] <skunkworks_> andypugh: it is going to be http://electronicsam.com/images/KandT/testing/Screenshot%20from%202014-06-23%2010:32:46.png
[02:17:20] <skunkworks_> part of a crank
[02:17:42] <andypugh> Little engine?
[02:17:43] <jdh> did you turn that on the Emco?
[02:18:19] <anarchos> neat
[02:19:59] <skunkworks_> heh - no. monarch 10EE
[02:20:43] <jdh> If I had a little more room, I would have had one of those
[02:21:04] <andypugh> 10EE CNC?
[02:21:10] <skunkworks_> andypugh: it is part of a very old air compressor I am converting to a stirling engine.. (need to make it 90deg out of phase instead of its 180deg..)
[02:21:16] <skunkworks_> andypugh: I wish...
[02:21:22] <skunkworks_> I hate manual work...
[02:21:30] <XXCoder1> skunkworks_: interesting'
[02:21:33] <skunkworks_> the rest can be done on the k&t..
[02:21:44] <andypugh> I quite like it, but not for repeats
[02:22:01] <XXCoder1> skunk whats your plan for stirling
[02:22:54] <andypugh> Let me guess, like any other Stirling engine. You go “W00t! I can make a Stirling engine” then put it away :-)
[02:23:20] <XXCoder1> I do want to make one, first for fun then second one bit more serious, attempt to make supercooler
[02:23:34] <skunkworks_> I hope not... - I jumped in an made a pretty big one - but need to figure out what I need to adjust to make it work better.. So I am taking a step back.
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[02:23:52] <skunkworks_> making a simpler one that I can play with head/regenerator designs..
[02:23:57] <XXCoder1> whats your plan? create power? run it to be a supercooler?
[02:24:04] <XXCoder1> ah latter it is
[02:24:12] <skunkworks_> probably solar/waste heat
[02:24:59] <XXCoder1> I have this strange idea of using big stirling being powered by sun/in shade difference
[02:25:12] <XXCoder1> it runs smaller stirling that acts as supercooler
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[02:29:03] <andypugh> Or run a ground-source heat-pump
[02:29:39] <andypugh> Though there might be more direct ways t get the same effect.
[02:29:42] <XXCoder1> meh I like mine better. bit ironic to use hot sun to make ice ;)
[02:30:05] <andypugh> (Digression) Have you seen how gas-powered fridges work?
[02:30:31] <XXCoder1> think those use stirling
[02:31:50] <andypugh> No, no moving parts. A clever system of gases, liquids and phase changes: http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~mnr/fridge.html
[02:32:34] <XXCoder1> wow
[02:32:38] <XXCoder1> no toxic chemicals
[02:34:22] <andypugh> I don’t know who thought that up, but it is super-clever.
[02:34:39] <XXCoder1> wonder if convertable to electric
[02:34:39] <skunkworks_> those are usually in campers.. (run off propane or electric)
[02:35:00] <andypugh> (and you could focus sunlight on parts to make it work)
[02:35:05] <anarchos> my parents have a propane fridge in their cottage
[02:35:08] <anarchos> quite neat
[02:35:23] <XXCoder1> http://www.coleman.com/product/5726-750
[02:35:56] <XXCoder1> its pretty expensive
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[02:36:42] <XXCoder1> http://www.aliexpress.com/w/wholesale-stirling.html?SearchText=stirling&CatId=0&shipCountry=us&initiative_id=SB_20140711183623&SortType=price_asc&filterCat=410401,410402,410404&groupsort=1
[02:36:55] <XXCoder1> now checking if theres decent ones that can be motor-mounted lol
[02:37:11] <andypugh> I think the hydrogen/ammonia cycle is probably better. It isn’t quite true that it has no moving parts, there are trilions of tiny ones
[02:37:13] <skunkworks_> http://electronicsam.com/images/KandT/testing/IMG_20140626_174011_685.jpg
[02:38:22] <andypugh> That’s 100% old-school. You may be the only person to have used a lantern tool-post today
[02:38:57] <XXCoder1> http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Free-shipping-Hot-Air-Stirling-Engine-Motor-Generator-Education-Toy-Kits-Electricity-M16-03-S/702652155.html this looks like it can be mounted with motor
[02:39:37] <skunkworks_> I wish I would have taking a picture.. We don't have a qctp for it - but we have one for the emco 5 pc.. We mounted it on the monarch. So much nicer even though it was a bit undersized...
[02:40:47] <andypugh> I need to sleep before the birds wake me up :-)
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[02:46:16] <XXCoder1> HMMM
[02:46:17] <XXCoder1> http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Stirling-Engine-All-copper-engine-model-single-cylinder-vertical-band-boiler-creative-gifts/714447494.html
[02:46:24] <XXCoder1> this is best one at aliexpress
[02:46:36] <XXCoder1> it can be easily adopted
[02:48:14] <zeeshan> skunkworks_: blue chips! thats what i like to see
[02:48:14] <zeeshan> :)
[02:48:20] <anarchos> aliexpress is my new favourite site
[02:48:34] <zeeshan> keep funding communist china!
[02:48:46] <XXCoder1> not much choice
[02:49:06] <Jymmm> zeeshan: Better than funding Communist America
[02:49:32] <zeeshan> i might be funding japan tomorrow
[02:49:41] <anarchos> i sometimes buy random stuff for $1 w/ free shipping
[02:49:45] <anarchos> because why not?
[02:49:45] <zeeshan> looking at a subaru impreza
[02:49:57] <anarchos> then in a month it shows up an i'm all surprised because i forgot about it
[02:53:29] <ssi> hrm
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[03:09:05] <anarchos> how good or bad of an idea would it be to wire three psu up to get 36v?
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[03:13:53] <ssi> https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BsUAlnjIgAAdMrg.jpg
[03:14:05] <Jymmm> linear, no problem. Switched, hope they're isolated.
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[04:48:32] * likevinyl is away: ⚽⚽⚽⚽⚽⚽⚽ - ⚽
[04:48:47] * likevinyl is back (gone 00:00:08)
[04:49:05] * likevinyl is away: ⚽⚽⚽⚽⚽⚽⚽ - ⚽
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[04:55:12] <ssi> this machine is gonna be huge :P
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[05:01:24] <XXCoder1> what machine
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[05:06:04] <ssi> the laser table I'm building
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[05:06:19] <ssi> I'm trying to make the frame big enough that I can enclose it easily when I'm done
[05:06:32] <ssi> which means it's gonna be like 40x66" outside dimensions for a 24x48 travel
[05:06:59] <Jymmm> dont forget exhaust system and air assist
[05:07:19] <ssi> yea I know
[05:07:27] <ssi> I bought a 24x48 piece of aluminum honeycomb
[05:07:36] <ssi> and I'll make a shroud underneath it to pull exhaust down
[05:08:02] <ssi> air assist won't take any room inside the enclosure, just needs a piece of 1/4" vinyl tubing to the head
[05:08:21] <Jymmm> no vinyl
[05:08:26] <ssi> no?
[05:08:31] <Jymmm> no PVC specifically
[05:08:43] <ssi> the 10,6 stray light damage it?
[05:08:57] <Jymmm> It's the ONLY thing that *ALL* laser mfg will instantly void the warranty
[05:09:08] <Jymmm> plus the health hazard are REALLY bad
[05:09:48] <ssi> I see
[05:10:00] <ssi> polyethylene or something work?
[05:10:29] <Jymmm> ABS, styrene, E, PP, are all fine, just not CHLOR
[05:10:36] <ssi> gotcha
[05:10:57] <Jymmm> PVC + LASER = HCL
[05:11:05] <ssi> right
[05:11:15] <ssi> and more specifically, chlorine gas
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[05:13:55] <Jymmm> Laser + PVC = Hydrogen Chloride Gas, aka Hydrochloric acid gas, aka HCL.
[05:14:14] <Jymmm> Hydrogen chloride forms corrosive hydrochloric acid on contact with water found in body tissue. Inhalation of the fumes can cause coughing, choking, inflammation of the nose, throat, and upper respiratory tract, and in severe cases, pulmonary edema, circulatory system failure, and death. Skin contact can cause redness, pain, and severe skin burns. Hydrogen chloride may cause severe burns to the eye and permanent eye damage.
[05:15:20] <ssi> sounds fun
[05:16:01] <Jymmm> PTFE is close second (FLOR)
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[05:20:14] <ssi> now... for an enclosure, it seems like lots of people use smoked acrylic
[05:20:24] <ssi> but as I understand it, even clear acrylic is opaque to 10,6, right?
[05:20:36] <XXCoder1> ssi: ahh yea
[05:20:36] <ssi> is the smoked acrylic just to cut down on the brightness of the visible part of what's being cut?
[05:21:03] <Jymmm> ssi: Clear acrylic is fine
[05:21:24] <Jymmm> and stop ssaying 10.6
[05:21:32] <ssi> SORRY
[05:21:35] <Jymmm> lol
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[05:22:15] <Jymmm> CO2 is what everyone says, barely anyone knows the wavelength
[05:22:40] <Jymmm> CO2, YaG, Diode,
[05:22:43] <Jymmm> Fiber
[05:22:49] <Jymmm> blah blah blah
[05:23:04] <Jymmm> 1/8" plex is enough of a filter
[05:23:27] <ssi> I'm making the frame out of 20mm tslot extrusion, and I figured I'd just make it so I can put some plex in the slots
[05:23:39] <Jymmm> You are just containing the invisible bounced lighting is all
[05:23:53] <ssi> right
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[05:38:42] <ssi> I need to model the tube and mounts so I can make sure it'll all fit within the frame
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[05:44:10] <XXCoder1> make a dummy?
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[05:47:04] <ssi> I'm drawing it all up in solidworks
[05:47:17] <ssi> just making sure everything's gonna fit the way I expect before I start cutting up relatively expensive extrusion
[05:47:33] <XXCoder1> ahh yea
[05:47:45] <XXCoder1> 8020 exrusions?
[05:48:22] <ssi> 20mm
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[05:50:23] <XXCoder1> nice
[05:50:36] <XXCoder1> pretty small exrusions
[05:50:40] <XXCoder1> 2cm?
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[05:51:37] <ssi> it's not all that small
[05:51:39] <ssi> 8020 is HUGE
[05:51:59] <ssi> and commensurately expensive :/
[05:52:09] <XXCoder1> 10 series is one inch wide basis
[05:52:16] <XXCoder1> yeah guess so
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[05:52:23] <XXCoder1> laser dont need all that much strength
[05:52:28] <XXCoder1> just rigidity
[05:53:08] <ssi> yea 1", 20mm, not that far off
[05:53:34] <XXCoder1> wonder if its that much cheaper that I could beef em up and still be cheape rlol
[05:53:36] <ssi> this stuff is plenty rigid... and the frame and motion beams are 20x40mm double section
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[05:54:19] <ssi> http://www.mcmaster.com/#5537t111/=sst775
[05:54:20] <XXCoder1> not bad. too bad I can afford em lol
[05:54:25] <XXCoder1> looking
[05:54:31] <ssi> $33 for 8'
[05:54:43] <ssi> I spent about $250 for all the extrusion I bought
[05:54:52] <ssi> I got 32' of the 20x40 and 48' of 20x20
[05:55:01] <XXCoder1> wow pretty cheap
[05:55:05] <ssi> yeah it's not bad
[05:55:09] <ssi> MUCH cheaper than 8020
[05:55:11] <XXCoder1> 1.5 inch
[05:55:17] <ssi> uses M5 hardware
[05:55:23] <ssi> buttonhead M5 will fit in the tslot
[05:55:42] <ssi> the tnuts are a bit of a hassle... the only good source I have for them is misumi
[05:55:46] <ssi> they're like $15 per 100
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[05:56:54] <ssi> I designed some corner brackets for it and test cut some in aluminum and steel earlier
[05:56:57] <ssi> https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BsUAlnjIgAAdMrg.jpg:large
[05:57:17] <XXCoder1> nice!
[05:57:23] <XXCoder1> looks very strong
[05:57:28] <ssi> yeah it's quite strong
[05:58:26] <XXCoder1> hmm
[05:58:34] <XXCoder1> solid 1' 10 feet is 32 bucks
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[05:59:09] <XXCoder1> 1010 though, you got 1x2 version of 20 mm cheaper
[05:59:23] <XXCoder1> 53 bucks for 1020
[06:00:30] <XXCoder1> http://www.mcmaster.com/#80/20-compatible-t-slotted-framing/=sst9z6
[06:01:30] <ssi> yea
[06:01:39] <ssi> the 20mm stuff is enough cheaper
[06:01:48] <ssi> plus the linear rail I'm using is 20mm compatible
[06:02:00] <XXCoder1> 5 bucks cheaper
[06:02:07] <XXCoder1> that is nice I guess
[06:02:09] <ssi> yeah 5 bucks per 8'
[06:02:15] <ssi> I bought six 8' lengths
[06:02:20] <ssi> plus four 8' lengths of the double
[06:02:27] <ssi> which is $8 cheaper
[06:02:32] <ssi> so that's like $62 :)
[06:02:46] <XXCoder1> thats true
[06:03:05] <ssi> AND I have a ton of M5 hardware and the proper tnuts on hand
[06:03:09] <ssi> so that saved me a pile of money too
[06:03:19] <XXCoder1> indeed
[06:03:30] <XXCoder1> man I can't wait for packages to arrive
[06:03:40] <XXCoder1> so I can finally do final revision of my cnc design
[06:04:02] <ssi> I wish I had my optics
[06:04:05] <ssi> or at least drawings of thome
[06:04:07] <ssi> them
[06:04:36] <XXCoder1> cnt model em he
[06:04:37] <XXCoder1> eh
[06:04:42] <ssi> http://www.ebay.com/itm/230926445035?var=530121671323&ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649
[06:04:48] <ssi> I can take a swag at it
[06:04:57] <XXCoder1> well
[06:04:58] <ssi> I need to get an idea of where the nozzle's gonna be so I can place the bed
[06:05:07] <XXCoder1> you do not need to do exact form
[06:05:21] <ssi> no just need an idea of the beam centerline relative to the carriage
[06:05:27] <XXCoder1> just accurate enough so you can figure that
[06:05:51] <XXCoder1> add thin cylender as "laser"
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[06:06:08] <ssi> looks like it'll be somewhere around 5/8" away from the carriage
[06:06:34] <XXCoder1> well time to sleep nihht :)
[06:06:38] <ssi> night
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[06:27:14] <cncformywife> hi..
[06:27:21] <cncformywife> someone live?
[06:28:01] <cncformywife> Hello!!
[06:28:08] <ssi> wat
[06:28:08] <cncformywife> wake up!!
[06:28:13] <cncformywife> ho..
[06:29:19] <cncformywife> how much is cost to cut some wood in cnc?
[06:29:25] <cncformywife> ssi: ^
[06:29:36] <cncformywife> i need 16 parts..
[06:30:26] <ssi> I dunno
[06:30:30] <ssi> what sort of parts
[06:30:50] <cncformywife> relatively square parts
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[06:31:14] <cncformywife> side of cnc machine and
[06:31:29] <cncformywife> and the cnc machine parts.
[06:35:23] <ssi> that's not really a lot of info man :)
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[06:45:24] <cncformywife> mmm
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[06:54:25] <ssi> Jymmm: https://fbcdn-sphotos-e-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xfa1/t31.0-8/10365407_10100426695720862_6809920225001781781_o.jpg
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[07:04:57] <Deejay> moin
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[08:37:55] <cncformywife> what kind of washer go on M5 screw?
[08:38:08] <cncformywife> someone can help me here?
[08:38:19] <cncformywife> please...
[08:38:28] <cncformywife> wake up!!
[08:38:31] <archivist> whatever you need
[08:38:51] <cncformywife> the screw is M5x25mm
[08:39:15] <Deejay> M5 washer :D
[08:39:20] <archivist> the screw alone does not define washer needs if any
[08:39:37] <archivist> only the inner hole size
[08:39:38] <cncformywife> i need washer that fit,,
[08:40:10] <cncformywife> if the screw diameter is 5mm i need washer of 5mm?
[08:40:25] <cncformywife> or the next size?
[08:40:32] <archivist> we dont know why you think you need a washer
[08:41:19] <archivist> the outside diameter and thickness also are variables, as too is shakeproof
[08:41:36] <archivist> often I dont use a washer
[08:42:22] <archivist> but on a soft material I would use a large diameter washer
[08:45:12] <cncformywife> i want to use cup screw with wood..
[08:45:52] <cncformywife> with out washer the wood will crack.
[08:46:23] <archivist> get the largest washer you can, or make
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[08:46:46] <cncformywife> but what internal diameter i need???
[08:46:59] <cncformywife> 5mm internal diameter? or bigger?
[08:47:11] <cncformywife> the screw is M5x25
[08:47:15] <Deejay> 5,2-5,3 i would suppose
[08:47:26] <cncformywife> what?
[08:47:47] <cncformywife> Deejay: what do you mean??
[08:47:50] <Deejay> millimeter
[08:47:59] <cncformywife> 5.2 mm?
[08:48:05] <Deejay> M5 = the screw has a diameter of 5mm
[08:48:09] <Deejay> (the thread)
[08:48:15] <Deejay> not the head
[08:48:20] <cncformywife> i know..
[08:48:31] <Deejay> just add some tolerance
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[08:48:45] <Deejay> hi syyl
[08:48:58] <cncformywife> but i cant find washer with fraction.. only 5/6/7 mm
[08:49:15] <cncformywife> not 5.something..
[08:49:39] <archivist> they are made with a tolerance to be usable
[08:49:53] <Deejay> if i look in the german DIN, a washer for M5 has 5,3mm internal diameter
[08:50:04] <Deejay> yes, just take a washer for 5mm then
[08:50:19] <Deejay> normally they are made to fit M5 screws ;)
[08:50:44] <Deejay> next bigger size (for M6) has 6.4mm internal diameter, thats a bit too much for m5 ;)
[08:51:01] <cncformywife> you sure about the tolerance..
[08:51:10] <syyl> thats not tolerance
[08:51:25] <syyl> thats normal
[08:51:36] <syyl> metric washers have a through hole with clearance
[08:51:48] <cncformywife> mmm
[08:51:56] <Deejay> http://www.bohrenfeldt.de/DIN_pdf/DIN9021.pdf
[08:52:20] <cncformywife> imperial is sooo easy.. why the chines use metric.
[08:52:37] <Deejay> imperial sucks extremely
[08:52:56] <Deejay> metric is win ;)
[08:53:00] <syyl> metric is so simple and logic structured
[08:53:07] <Deejay> indeed
[08:53:14] <syyl> need a washer for a m5 screw? use a freaking m5 washer :D
[08:53:22] <Deejay> that easy
[08:53:22] <cncformywife> No!.. #10 screw work with #10 washer..
[08:53:32] <Deejay> hrhr
[08:53:35] <cncformywife> no problem.. tolerance..
[08:53:39] <syyl> and #10 is what diameter?
[08:53:47] <syyl> m5 is 5mm nominal
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[08:54:04] <syyl> stupid crap :D
[08:54:34] <archivist> this is not rocket science
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[08:54:58] <syyl> even hasa had their problems with metric hadn't they?
[08:55:00] <syyl> ;)
[08:55:07] <cncformywife> #10 is 3/16"
[08:55:20] <kfoltman> #10, 3/16", that's so obvious ;)
[08:55:25] <Deejay> haha
[08:55:26] <syyl> and theres no relation between #10 and 3/16 :D
[08:55:41] <archivist> # sizes vary per standard
[08:55:50] <syyl> thats even funnier :D
[08:55:54] <archivist> so dont use # sizes
[08:56:02] <cncformywife> is 0.1875 inch
[08:56:19] <syyl> ha
[08:56:30] <syyl> it even gets funnier with wire gage/sheet metal gage :D
[08:56:46] <cncformywife> #9 is 11/64"
[08:57:59] <Deejay> so, whats the smallest? #1 oder #0? what if you need even smaller?
[08:58:06] <syyl> get a 00
[08:58:06] <Deejay> #0.5? ;)
[08:58:07] <syyl> ;)
[08:58:17] <cncformywife> #0
[08:58:18] <Deejay> ah yes, extremely logical ;)
[08:58:33] <archivist> #000 will be smaller
[08:58:42] <Deejay> hrhr
[08:58:45] <ssi> #2 is the smallest I've run into
[08:59:00] <Deejay> sorry, but this numbers make no sense for me
[08:59:14] <cncformywife> there is no 000
[08:59:21] <cncformywife> the smallest is #0
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[08:59:30] <cncformywife> http://www.bosunsupplies.com/images/var/ScrewThreads.gif
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[09:00:07] <archivist> that list is too small
[09:00:45] <syyl> you have to much screw diameters :D
[09:01:00] <cncformywife> it is all the common screws that you fined in the HW stores
[09:01:46] <cncformywife> i know the #10 is bigger then #9.. but i dont know what is the diameter..
[09:01:55] <cncformywife> so i use the table...
[09:02:06] <syyl> in metric you dont need table
[09:02:07] <syyl> ;)
[09:02:32] <kfoltman> syyl: but that removes all the magic and beauty of it! ;)
[09:02:39] <Deejay> lol
[09:02:49] <Deejay> magic? yes. beauty? ^^
[09:02:53] <syyl> thakes the pain in the but away? :D
[09:03:13] <ssi> you think that's fun, you should wade into AN and MS hardware
[09:03:16] * kfoltman looks at the table and sees how the values are mostly linear up to #14, then suddenly stop being linear at all
[09:03:33] <ssi> you have #4, #6, #8, and then #10 is the same as -3 (3/16)
[09:03:42] <syyl> :D
[09:03:47] <ssi> then there's -4, which is not the same as #4
[09:03:52] <ssi> -4 is 1/4 (4/16)
[09:04:31] <syyl> (i think peole need a special genom to like that) ;)
[09:04:34] <ssi> and so when they number washers, you have AN906-4 is a #4 washer, not a dash 4 (1/4)
[09:04:46] <ssi> AN906-416 is the dash 4 part
[09:04:47] <ssi> weeee
[09:05:00] <syyl> i would start to cry
[09:05:06] <syyl> and machine my own freaking washers.
[09:05:07] <Deejay> stop please, i am getting a headache
[09:05:08] <cncformywife> but if you need do drill hole for screw..
[09:05:17] <kfoltman> cncformywife: then you take a 5mm drill
[09:05:20] <ssi> yeah it's frustrating at first, but then once you understand it all it makes you feel ALL POWERFUL
[09:05:27] <archivist> what no #000 http://chestofbooks.com/home-improvement/woodworking/Ira-S-Griffith/Carpentry/images/Wood-And-Machine-Screw-Sizes-206.jpg
[09:05:34] <kfoltman> ssi: sunk cost fallacy? initiation rites?
[09:05:34] <cncformywife> or 3/16 drill..
[09:05:44] <syyl> if i want to drill a hole for a m5 screw
[09:05:46] <kfoltman> cncformywife: there's no 3 or 16 in m5 ;-)
[09:05:57] <syyl> i take a drill lthats bigger than 5mm ;)
[09:06:06] <syyl> for example 5.4
[09:06:16] <syyl> thats the standard clearance hole for m5
[09:06:19] <ssi> kfoltman: aircraft hardware is a magical thing
[09:06:43] <kfoltman> ssi: don't scare me, I'm going to do some air travel this month ;)
[09:06:55] <syyl> if i want to feel powerfull i can also push over a tree, ssi
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[09:06:57] <kfoltman> if I don't believe in magic, will the airplane disintegrate under me?
[09:06:57] <syyl> ;)
[09:07:03] <syyl> that makes more sense
[09:07:06] <ssi> only if it's an airbus
[09:07:11] <ssi> they're frenchyfrench and all metric
[09:07:14] <ssi> and they fall apart randomly
[09:07:17] <kfoltman> ssi: I'm taking a plane not a bus! ;)
[09:07:29] <kfoltman> yeah no it might be an a320
[09:07:36] <cncformywife> aircraft is imperial..
[09:07:45] <ssi> airbus makes things that start out as planes and then transform into buses at 30,000'
[09:07:50] <syyl> and boing planes disapear.
[09:07:53] <kfoltman> cncformywife: I'm sure the roman empire didn't have any aircrafts!
[09:07:54] <ssi> and then they become submarines
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[09:07:59] <archivist> ssi, not so bad the wings and other parts are english
[09:08:00] ries_nicked is now known as ries
[09:08:01] <syyl> like mh370
[09:08:20] <ssi> syyl: being stolen is far preferable to inflight breakup :)
[09:08:33] <syyl> i dont want to get stolen :(
[09:08:34] <kfoltman> anyone found out what happened to that plane? (apart from "it crashed somewhere")
[09:08:40] <ssi> it was stolen
[09:08:42] <ssi> I'm nearly certain
[09:08:50] <ssi> ie it didn't crash somewhere
[09:08:52] <kfoltman> syyl: do you prefer having a break-up?
[09:08:59] <ssi> they took it somewhere and murdered all the passengers and repainted it
[09:09:02] <syyl> yeah
[09:09:05] <syyl> "i can fix that"
[09:09:11] <kfoltman> was its name Shhhhhhh?
[09:09:26] <ssi> syyl: can you fix this? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bzD4tIvPHwE
[09:09:28] <syyl> duct tape and a nailgun and youre good to go
[09:09:48] <syyl> maybe a bit aditional paint
[09:09:51] <syyl> hm
[09:09:59] <syyl> and a fire extinguisher ;)
[09:10:23] <archivist> ssi, I think there was an error in the location when they heard the pings, a reflection off an undersea mountain
[09:10:43] <cncformywife> i go to drink something..
[09:10:53] <syyl> drinking is not the solution!
[09:10:55] <syyl> realy
[09:10:58] <ssi> haha
[09:11:00] <Deejay> but no alcohol
[09:11:10] <kfoltman> syyl: eventually you die from dehydration
[09:11:18] <syyl> :(
[09:11:54] <cncformywife> i was laugh to much.. i have tears..
[09:11:58] <syyl> i think i take a shower ;)
[09:12:03] <cncformywife> water
[09:12:40] <Deejay> ;-)
[09:13:05] <syyl> ah
[09:13:11] <syyl> got a new vac cleaner at work ;)
[09:13:11] <syyl> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/24396704/QMTL2/IMAG0505.jpg
[09:13:46] <syyl> "didnt look THAT big in the catalogue"
[09:14:12] <ssi> anyone have any thoughts on what aluminum alloys are good for plasma cutting?
[09:14:41] <syyl> no sorry, only cut it once with a hand-plasmatorch
[09:14:46] <syyl> and it was a horrible mess :D
[09:14:57] <syyl> aluminiumflakes and smoke everywhere
[09:15:02] <archivist> I cannot imagine it coming out well
[09:15:23] <ssi> I cut some 0.090" 6061 sheet earlier and it did fairly well
[09:15:24] <syyl> and the cut looked like made with a beaver
[09:15:35] <ssi> the edges are feathery and rough, but not too bad
[09:15:46] <ssi> https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BsUAlnjIgAAdMrg.jpg:large
[09:15:57] <ssi> the silver ones are the 6061 I cut, the others are hotroll
[09:21:09] <cncformywife> Nylon Screw is good??
[09:21:27] <cncformywife> is better?
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[09:24:35] <archivist> nylon is good when it is needed
[09:24:53] <archivist> and terrible if used for the wrong job
[09:25:04] <archivist> ask better questions
[09:25:07] <syyl> :D
[09:25:19] <syyl> endless fun and enjoyment :D
[09:27:42] <cncformywife> for steel screw.. Nylon Screw is good is better?
[09:28:12] <cncformywife> i mean nuts**
[09:28:26] <archivist> for insulation nylon is better
[09:28:48] <cncformywife> i want is to hold cnc side made from wood
[09:28:52] <archivist> your questions are not asking the right thing
[09:29:38] <archivist> I bet you really wanted to know about the shakeproof nylock nut
[09:29:45] <archivist> but never asked
[09:29:54] <cncformywife> metal screw with metal washer work with nylon nut?
[09:29:58] <archivist> it is still a steel nut!
[09:30:33] <cncformywife> http://www.ebay.com/itm/100pcs-Black-Nylon-M5-Screw-Nuts-/191204254006?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2c84a96136
[09:31:22] <archivist> you should not be using them for machine assembly unless you need them
[09:31:25] <cncformywife> or to buy http://www.ebay.com/itm/Metric-Stainless-Steel-Finished-hex-nuts-M5-X-8-Qty-100-/331160304724?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4d1ab13c54
[09:31:37] <archivist> use steel
[09:31:47] <cncformywife> ok.
[09:32:53] <cncformywife> done!
[09:33:08] <cncformywife> i have 3 stepper motors.
[09:33:27] <cncformywife> and 3 drivers
[09:33:50] <cncformywife> how much force they supply?
[09:34:48] <ssi> all of it
[09:34:52] <ssi> minus losses
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[09:35:14] <cncformywife> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Bautz-HY200-2240-460-A-8-DC-Stepping-Motor-/130842720379
[09:35:29] <cncformywife> this is one of them.
[09:36:26] <cncformywife> and i have 2 like of this motor.
[09:36:28] <cncformywife> http://www.ebay.com/itm/MINEBEA-ASTROSYN-MINIANGLE-STEEPER-23LM-C701-01-/251577492296?_trksid=p2047675.l2557&nma=true&si=mGvWtRb%252BntF3%252F77X0gN5VXm9M04%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc
[09:38:00] <archivist> are we supposed to google for you to find the data sheets?
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[09:39:51] <cncformywife> this for the first
[09:39:51] <cncformywife> http://www-app.etsit.upm.es/departamentos/teat/asignaturas/lab-ingel/mpap_hy_lab.pdf
[09:40:17] <cncformywife> page 6 right side - bottom
[09:40:29] <cncformywife> HY200-2240-460-A-8-D
[09:41:07] <cncformywife> this for the other motor..
[09:41:08] <cncformywife> http://elektrotanya.com/files/Japan%20Servo%20KP56QM2-001%20Summary%20Sheet.pdf
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[09:48:46] <cncformywife> ?
[09:49:02] -!- Thetawaves has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep]
[09:57:57] <cncformywife> http://img.wonderhowto.com/img/58/27/63498951198971/0/make-macgyver-style-chess-set-using-just-nuts-bolts.w654.jpg
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[10:02:06] <cncformywife> archivist: ?
[10:05:23] <archivist> there are curves of torque v rpm etc, there is no fixed value, it is how steppers work
[10:10:11] <cncformywife> my lead screw is 5/16"
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[10:12:07] <ssi> 3~3~
[10:14:18] <archivist> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?Stepper_Motor_Speed_Limitations
[10:44:29] <jthornton> morning
[10:44:39] <ssi> morn jt
[10:47:44] <Jymmm> Gooooooooooooooooooooooooood Morning SwaMisery!!!!
[10:48:35] <cncformywife> hi
[10:48:57] <Deejay> huuuuhu :-)
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[10:57:59] <ssi> heh this machine is gonna be big
[10:58:58] <ssi> https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BsVrKB8IMAAj5qD.jpg:large
[10:59:06] <ssi> 3x5' doesn't sound all that big til you start putting it together
[11:01:57] <cncformywife> WOW O_o
[11:02:41] <cncformywife> your wife OK with this??
[11:03:01] <ssi> I don't let her out of her cage in the basement long enough to complain
[11:03:13] <Deejay> :D
[11:03:28] * archivist is not aware of the term wife
[11:03:37] <ssi> archivist: same here :)
[11:03:59] <archivist> old free and single rules
[11:04:10] <ssi> best I can reckon, a wife is a thing that people have which does dishes and laundry for roughly 92% of your disposable income
[11:04:41] <cncformywife> here my wife push me to make a cnc...
[11:05:15] <Deejay> must be a good wife
[11:05:18] <Deejay> :)
[11:05:25] <archivist> the idea is to get you out the house and in the shed out the way
[11:05:56] <Jymmm> hookers and beer can do that much easier
[11:06:23] <cncformywife> i try to make here 50X50X10 cm stepper based CNC
[11:06:51] <cncformywife> she want it pink :P
[11:07:07] <ssi> cncformywife: do yourself a favor, go order one of those
[11:07:09] <ssi> https://www.inventables.com/technologies/desktop-cnc-mill-kit-shapeoko-2
[11:07:22] <ssi> it's 50x50x10, and it'll save you a hell of a lot of learning curve
[11:08:30] <cncformywife> i'm very good in solidworks and also here
[11:08:31] <Loetmichel> [13:04] <ssi> best I can reckon, a wife is a thing that people have which does dishes and laundry for roughly 92% of your disposable income <- youre doing it wrong. my wife does the dishes, the laundry AND has about three times my salary herself ;-)
[11:08:52] <ssi> Loetmichel: yea we all know about your sugar momma ;)
[11:08:56] <cncformywife> ssi: it is look like crap.
[11:09:23] <cncformywife> sugar momma???
[11:09:53] <Loetmichel> shapeoko is ok for (Foil-)plotting. not so much for reasonable milling
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[11:10:11] <ssi> it's a pretty decent motion platform for what it is
[11:10:12] <Deejay> morning Loetmichel :)
[11:10:22] <Loetmichel> moin Deejay
[11:11:06] <JesusAlos> hi
[11:11:10] <Deejay> hi jesus
[11:11:31] <Loetmichel> <- just was woken by my wife ringing my cellphone... "do you wand some Burgers? im on my way home from buying grocerys and here is a mcD nearby"
[11:11:32] <Loetmichel> ;-)
[11:12:11] <Deejay> sugar momma :D
[11:13:12] <cncformywife> i neet to find a solution for bottom scrows :(
[11:13:25] <cncformywife> one sec.. screenshot
[11:13:25] <Loetmichel> cncformywife: hmm?
[11:13:52] <JesusAlos> I have a problem with motherboard Asrock H61M-PS4 mATX LGA1155
[11:14:50] <archivist> I have a problem with money
[11:15:06] <JesusAlos> me too
[11:15:15] <archivist> without context your statement means little
[11:15:20] <JesusAlos> http://postimg.org/image/lktbm9j0z/
[11:15:30] <cncformywife> <cncformywife> one sec.. screenshot
[11:16:15] <JesusAlos> I try the same hard disk in other computer and start ok
[11:16:33] <cncformywife> http://i.imgur.com/yMQJibB.png
[11:16:33] <archivist> is that one of the new boards locked to Microsoft
[11:16:36] <JesusAlos> I install image disk linuxcnc
[11:16:59] <JesusAlos> yes have UEFI
[11:17:21] <Jymmm> JesusAlos: Do you have the latest BIOS?
[11:17:25] <JesusAlos> but a few month use other and go ok
[11:17:46] <JesusAlos> latest BIOS? to the same motherboard?
[11:17:51] <cncformywife> Loetmichel: http://imgur.com/delete/n2ttUU1HxEozFtX
[11:17:59] <cncformywife> opss
[11:18:07] <JesusAlos> I only have the bios installed in motherboard
[11:18:12] <cncformywife> http://i.imgur.com/yMQJibB.png
[11:18:29] <Jymmm> JesusAlos: Is the installed BIOS the most current version?
[11:18:48] <archivist> cncformywife, you keep pasting the sam picture without a sensible question
[11:18:52] <archivist> same
[11:19:03] <JesusAlos> Don't sure but think yes because buy the motherd board a fewdays
[11:19:12] <ssi> ok I guess I'mma drive down to mcmaster and pick up more metal and screws
[11:19:24] <Jymmm> JesusAlos: Did you reset the CMOS to "default" before installing/using the hdd?
[11:19:26] <ssi> then I can come home and cut more brackets and assemble my enormous laser table :P
[11:19:38] <JesusAlos> yes I try it
[11:19:47] <Jymmm> JesusAlos: A "new" mobo doesn't mean "newest" BIOS,
[11:19:48] <Loetmichel> cncformywife: flip the screws ans use countersunk heads
[11:19:54] <Loetmichel> where is the problem?
[11:20:30] <cncformywife> i need an idea what to do with the screws
[11:20:49] <archivist> tighten
[11:20:54] <Loetmichel> JesusAlos: deactivate secure boot and efi bitt in the efi"bios"
[11:20:56] <Loetmichel> boot
[11:21:18] <Loetmichel> [13:19] <Loetmichel> cncformywife: flip the screws ans use countersunk heads
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[11:21:40] <cncformywife> ok..
[11:21:49] <cncformywife> i'm google it now
[11:21:51] <archivist> add feet
[11:22:15] <Loetmichel> i.e uts on the upper side and the flush head on the bottom
[11:22:21] <Loetmichel> -> problem solved
[11:22:32] <Loetmichel> +n
[11:22:33] <archivist> adjustable feet to get rid of frame twist and clear and crap
[11:22:40] <JesusAlos> is trange. In asrock webpage, the most recent Bios version is 1.20, but my motherboard have 2.15.1227
[11:23:26] <Jymmm> That's way too big a jump in versions; Verify the correct mobo
[11:23:32] <cncformywife> nails can be work?
[11:24:37] <cncformywife> replace the screws with nails..
[11:26:58] <cncformywife> it will be strong enough?
[11:27:00] <JesusAlos> sorry
[11:27:23] <JesusAlos> my motherboard is H61M-P32/W8
[11:27:26] <JesusAlos> MSI
[11:27:32] <cncformywife> archivist: ?
[11:27:52] <JesusAlos> BIOS v 2.15.1227
[11:28:05] <archivist> depends, I would never use nails for a machine build
[11:28:11] <JesusAlos> actual BIOS available 10.10
[11:30:00] <Loetmichel> archivist: i used about 1000 spax 5*50 on my last build
[11:30:01] <Loetmichel> ;-)
[11:30:26] <Loetmichel> i wouldnt have been comfortable with nails, though
[11:30:28] <Loetmichel> ;-)
[11:30:31] <Jymmm> JesusAlos: Are you sure? "2.15.1227" doesn't come up as asrock nor msi, but does as aspire and hp
[11:33:18] <cncformywife> archivist: ok.. i'm google the bolts..
[11:34:11] <JesusAlos> http://postimg.org/image/kbnuxws9z/
[11:34:17] <JesusAlos> http://postimg.org/image/3qz775c7j/
[11:34:24] <JesusAlos> http://es.msi.com/support/mb/H61MP32W8.html#support_download
[11:35:02] <cncformywife> archivist: what about this?
[11:35:03] <cncformywife> http://www.lowes.com/pd_426670-37672-4751_4294710928__?productId=4260603&Ns=p_product_qty_sales_dollar|1&pl=1&currentURL=%3FNs%3Dp_product_qty_sales_dollar%7C1&facetInfo=
[11:35:56] <JesusAlos> Is strange
[11:36:05] <JesusAlos> Is a very old version BIOS
[11:36:27] <archivist> cncformywife, you have to decide if it fits or not
[11:37:11] <cncformywife> is the first time that i see bolt with that head..
[11:37:24] <cncformywife> so i'm ask you as a pro.
[11:38:15] <archivist> do you realise I cannot know the dimensions you wish to fit it in
[11:39:12] <archivist> earlier you were asking about a metric size, so I am coming to the conclusion you have a problem
[11:45:13] <cncformywife> i think i half drill the bottom plate and use shorter one..
[11:49:08] <tawr> I need to make a cnc cheese cutter
[11:50:38] <JesusAlos> with ultrasinic saw?
[11:50:43] <Jymmm> tawr: It's called a giant wheel with a wire that rotates
[11:50:43] <JesusAlos> ultrasonic
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[11:51:15] <Jymmm> tawr: or a Hobart slicer
[11:52:49] <JesusAlos> I update the BIOS
[11:52:54] <JesusAlos> and this is the result
[11:52:56] <JesusAlos> http://postimg.org/image/akqj1lck7/
[11:52:58] <tawr> I'm thinking more along the lines of JesusAlos's idea. Ultrasonic transducer with a bow saw like horn?
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[11:55:46] <mutley_> hi
[11:56:03] <mutley_> anyone here use planet cnc / CNC-USB stuff?
[11:56:14] <JesusAlos> hi
[11:56:52] <JesusAlos> I change configuration SATA option from IDE to AHCI
[11:56:58] <JesusAlos> and run ok
[11:57:48] <JesusAlos> in conclussion the problem was the BIOS version.
[11:57:56] <archivist> mutley_, we in here use linux cnc not stuff like that
[11:58:28] <JesusAlos> but after flashing the BIOS, the versión show 2.15.1227
[11:58:39] <mutley_> understood but maybe someone drives a ford whilst their partner, (or their other car) is a Jaguar
[11:58:43] <JesusAlos> Is the same of before flashing
[11:59:04] <archivist> mutley_, no that is a fiat 500
[11:59:19] <mutley_> im being plagued by an issue of ovalness when cutting circular geometries
[11:59:19] <tawr> heh
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[12:00:02] <archivist> oval is scale, you got it wrong
[12:01:01] <mutley_> i have zero backlash, mechanically tight all triple checked.....im trying to identify if there is some anomoly or normal ractice that i might be missing, tolerances etc etc....if i change the start point the ovalness follows the start point so this effectively eliminates incorrect ste settings
[12:01:35] <archivist> mutley_, http://www.planet-cnc.com/faq/spu/
[12:02:10] <mutley_> i export the circular patterns and check in a nother CAD based checker and the file or geometry error is miniscule in the order of a couple of microns, as i have really tightened tolerances in the CAD, and in the CNC package
[12:02:23] <JesusAlos> mutley: which version linuxcnc use?
[12:02:51] <mutley_> and im running at 1/4 ste resolution
[12:03:27] <archivist> you should be asking on their forum/whatever not in here
[12:03:36] <tawr> mutley_ - can you just move it a set distance from that package to a few different positions and extrapolate where the error is coming from?
[12:03:46] <archivist> or upgrade to linuxcnc
[12:04:52] <mutley_> tawr: not quite sure what you mean by move "it", do you mean the start point, or the part itself?>
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[12:07:08] <JesusAlos> what happen here?
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[12:07:22] <mutley_> oh man
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[12:07:36] <archivist> the saturday splits
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[12:09:10] <mutley_> so im now looking at things like interpolation, axis prioity etc etc. ive done a full stepper driver tune, steps per mm calibrations etc, im just wondering if thres some sort of cnc package setting that is common across all or most cnc softwares that one has to activate or not as the case maybe, to remove certain innaccuraices when cutting.
[12:09:59] <mutley_> the features im cutting come out perfectly aside from the ovality, system seems to move nice and smooth sounds regular etc
[12:10:00] <archivist> that page tells you for your board http://www.planet-cnc.com/faq/spu/
[12:10:20] <archivist> basic X and Y scaling
[12:10:43] <archivist> they both have to be correct to get a circle
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[12:11:39] <mutley_> archivist ive gone through that, and if you think about it, if i had scaling issues, the ovality would not change if i changed the start pointm but it does, the point of ovalness shifts around the circle as you move the start point around
[12:12:27] <archivist> then complain to the board maker or writer of cam software
[12:13:28] <JesusAlos> go eat
[12:13:30] <JesusAlos> by
[12:13:45] <mutley_> archivist: i am in discussion with them but they have no answer, they have checked my gcode settings file etc
[12:13:46] <archivist> should you go into a Rolls Royce showroom and ask why your fiat does not perform well?
[12:13:51] <mutley_> all apears ok, they say
[12:14:32] <JesusAlos> :)
[12:14:33] <mutley_> archivist: but this is not rolls royce nor fiat, and im asking for generic advice, maybe someone has had such a problem in the past and it was a case of "oh do this or that" and should fix
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[12:15:22] <tawr> mutley_ - run the carriage / tool carrier by set amounts in the x / y axis then measure to see if it's the same, ruling out any scaling issues. then use a compass and draw a 5-10" circle on a point, and have the tool carriage trace that radius and see if there's any error
[12:15:22] <tawr> heh
[12:15:28] <mutley_> im asking for perhaps an expert thought, even if its just a lead that sends me down the right path of investigation, ie a constructive comment, not just a "go away we are linux nazis"
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[12:15:42] <archivist> that is not a mechanical nor setup problem if your description is correct,
[12:15:46] <Jymmm> netsplit
[12:16:31] <archivist> show images of the error
[12:16:40] <mutley_> archivist: well i guess that comment is a little more objective, this is what i was thinking but im also looking to see if maybe ive overlooked or missed something on my considerations
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[12:17:25] <mutley_> tawr: that sounds interesting, i measure the cutout part with a digi caliper, also when i fit the part onto an axle you can see the slight out of round
[12:17:33] <mutley_> as you spin or rotate the item
[12:18:04] <jthornton> sounds like backlash
[12:18:16] <tawr> mutley_ - I mean using a digital caliper, say set to 5 or 6" (length of your digital caliper). around a set point, go up/down, left right, then 2 diagnals
[12:18:19] <jthornton> no setting will fix poor hardware
[12:18:51] <SpeedEvil> But it can mitigate it in some cases to the point of usability
[12:18:58] <tawr> then a few inches to the side, use a compass )or caliper) and draw a 5" circle around another set point. set the tool directly in the center of each part and move it along the lines of axis
[12:19:02] <tawr> and see if it's off anywhere
[12:19:23] <mutley_> jthornton: yes it does but is not, i have gone through mechanically and it is all very sound and robuust, so if one assumes backlash is fine, what other causes could there be, for example interpolation et to 0.01 or 0.001, its almost like there is a bui8ld up of error
[12:19:50] <mutley_> an accumulation and the deaccumulation
[12:20:04] <mutley_> if there is such a woord....i guess there is now
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[12:20:49] <jthornton> so you have zero backlash ball screws on both X and Y axis and a very rigid Z axis?
[12:20:59] <tawr> a build up of error would be steppers missing a step occasionally due to load?
[12:20:59] <archivist> do not discount stuff like backlash without measurements
[12:21:17] <Loetmichel> or resonance
[12:21:20] <Loetmichel> or both
[12:21:24] <jthornton> mutley_, got a photo of the machine?
[12:21:31] <Loetmichel> or tooo steep ramps
[12:21:35] <archivist> machine twist and flex
[12:21:39] <mutley_> tawr: i agree but then it always returns to centre
[12:21:55] <archivist> how accurately
[12:22:01] <tawr> mutley_ - you also need to check runout at the end of each line. pause it at the end and use the caliper
[12:22:05] <mutley_> archivist: ive rigidized the machine as i had thought of that, it made little to no difference, none noticeable
[12:22:16] <tawr> mount a 1/16" bit and use the caliper to measure
[12:22:44] <mutley_> runout on the spindle is next to zero, if that is what your talking about tawr
[12:23:01] <tawr> no mutley_.
[12:23:08] <mutley_> Loetmichel: i was thinking along these lines
[12:23:29] <mutley_> archivist: i have done measurements with dti gauges
[12:24:04] <mutley_> Loetmichel: too steep ramps? ie turn accelerations down?
[12:24:10] <archivist> you keep pointing at your board as the error
[12:24:24] <mutley_> i have played with start speeds and accels,
[12:24:37] <Loetmichel> mutley_: yes
[12:25:01] <mutley_> archivist: i hope it is not the board, but what on the board could fail like this, otherwise every user of this hardware would have this issue, granted not all might notice it but some def would
[12:25:33] <archivist> hmm what is the name of the two ball with dti in between for testing the machine
[12:25:36] <mutley_> but Loetmichelthat would be indicating toward skipped steps which would be evident at the end when returning to origin?
[12:25:48] <mutley_> ball bar?
[12:25:53] <archivist> mutley_, not fail, design/software error
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[12:26:24] <archivist> yes try a ball bar test
[12:27:34] <mutley_> well i dont have that sort of equipment, that is highly specialised stuff carried by calibration engineers,
[12:28:02] <archivist> you could make something up
[12:28:34] <mutley_> but i do have 600mm digi caliper, and have done 300mm travel distance checks, they are to with 5 microns would you believe, so my axis are true and perpendicular and correctly setup for steps per mm
[12:28:37] <archivist> two rose joins and a dti and a couple of brackets
[12:29:15] <archivist> the circle comes from your cam or motion controller
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[12:30:37] <archivist> do the square diamond circle test
[12:31:15] <mutley_> ok so lets think about this scenario....lets assume steps per mm are not correct, woulld the ovality follow the start point around the circle, or would it stay fixed in its point around that crcle
[12:31:38] <mutley_> ie even plaed with the step/dir delay values to no avail
[12:31:38] <archivist> https://onehossshay.wordpress.com/category/cnc/
[12:31:47] <jthornton> if step per mm are wrong then the size of the circle will be wrong
[12:31:50] <mutley_> archivist: square diamond test?
[12:32:31] <archivist> diamond square circle stacked, it is a classic cnc test
[12:32:35] <mutley_> jthornton: thats what i thought, and if they are not equal the circle would be oval, but it would sta in line with the axis perp to the one not set ocrrectly (from my intuition)
[12:35:54] <mutley_> ok so stps per unit are 320, init speed is 10, accels set to 20, running 1/4 stepping, 5mm pitch screws
[12:36:27] <jthornton> I find acceleration is usually 10-20 times max velocity
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[12:37:22] <archivist> http://timf.anansi-web.com/wp/circle-diamond-square/
[12:37:26] <mutley_> ok feedrate is 200
[12:37:42] <mutley_> archivist: thanks ill have a squizz
[12:37:47] <jthornton> have you milled an outside circle on a square block then measured it at parallel to the axes and between
[12:39:06] <jthornton> archivist, good link
[12:41:17] <mutley_> ok im going to look at doing that, fwiw i too also run cambam
[12:42:54] <mutley_> ok so my gut turns a little bit when i look at the lookahead settings, i see parameters regarding slit arcs, min and max angles etc
[12:43:12] <mutley_> i find very little info about what the correct "practices" should be in regard to such generic settings
[12:44:04] <jthornton> are these settings something in cambam?
[12:44:21] <mutley_> yes but i see them in other cnc sw's
[12:44:37] <archivist> faults in trajectory planners are interesting
[12:44:51] <jthornton> so that has nothing to do with LinuxCNC
[12:45:03] <mutley_> ok for example, Lookahead has....Angle - Radius, and Radius angle
[12:45:27] <mutley_> set to 150, 0.5, 20 respectively
[12:45:47] <archivist> you are asking the wrong people for that
[12:46:03] <jthornton> more cambam questions?
[12:46:09] <mutley_> archivist: well i know that now, hence the question in the first place
[12:46:55] <mutley_> given i have not used other sw's i am trying to gather comparisons, ok so is there such a thing in other sw's as a "Dominant Axis Change"?
[12:47:04] <jthornton> to see if it is cambam or your machine write some code by hand!!
[12:47:39] <jthornton> I use commercial CAM and have never seen any settings like those you mention
[12:48:18] <mutley_> ok, how about Radial Acceleration settings?
[12:48:26] <mutley_> are there such things
[12:49:27] <mutley_> at the end of the day I am NOT looking for THE answer, i am quite capable of self direction, but i am looking for that little nugget of advice or even of hand comment that sends me down a trail of investigation
[12:49:54] <mutley_> that possibly leads to the solution, it could be just a check box in a setting someewhere, it could be a whole drawn out calculated afair
[12:49:59] <jthornton> I use OneCNC and have never seed any settings like that
[12:50:01] <mutley_> affair i should say
[12:50:11] <jthornton> and you need to find a cambam forum
[12:50:14] <archivist> we would have to learn a lot more about your board to answer
[12:50:36] <mutley_> jthornton: ok thx thats helpful insight
[12:50:52] <mutley_> archivist: well i shant be asking for you to do that as i wouldnt exect that off anyone
[12:51:17] <jthornton> I think they have one on the zone
[12:51:22] <jthornton> cnc zone
[12:51:30] <mutley_> as i said, just a lead or a clue
[12:52:03] <mutley_> jthornton: yea im leaning towards putting up a post on there, was just checking all the expertness and lurv that exists in here :)
[12:52:08] <jthornton> http://cnczone.com/
[12:52:44] <jthornton> looks like noone online this morning or afternoon as the case may be uses cambam
[12:52:54] <archivist> my first thought, this cannot happen in linuxcnc which leaves your board and its code
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[12:53:54] <archivist> chuck a PC with linuxcnc on it to test
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[12:57:02] <mutley_> ok so steps per mm it is abnormal for instance if your theoretical SPU should be say 600 for example, but when you do measuing etc it turns out to be 600.040 after calculating
[13:00:08] <mutley_> would this be abnormal or actuallly a very common fine tuned end result>
[13:00:11] <jthornton> SPU? and what are you calculating
[13:00:20] <mutley_> ie due to tolerances in the manufacture of the ball screws
[13:00:30] <mutley_> steps per unit
[13:00:40] <mutley_> soorry i was trying to be clever using shorthand ;p
[13:00:51] <jthornton> that does depend on the quality of the ball screw for sure
[13:01:07] <mutley_> bought from zapp automation
[13:01:18] <jthornton> you can use mapping to account for ball screw inaccuracies
[13:01:27] <jthornton> what are the specs on the ball screw?
[13:02:12] <jthornton> COMP_FILE = file.extension - A file holding compensation structure for the axis. The file could be named xscrew.comp, for example, for the X axis. File names are case sensitive and can contain letters and/or numbers. The values are triplets per line separated by a space. The first value is nominal (where it should be). The second and third values depend on the setting of COMP_FILE_TYPE. Currently the limit inside LinuxCNC is for 256 triplets per axis. If
[13:02:13] <jthornton> COMP_FILE is specified, BACKLASH is ignored. Compensation file values are in machine units.
[13:02:23] <jthornton> http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/2.6/html/config/ini_config.html#sub:AXIS-section
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[13:04:37] <mutley_> ive got ZPSF1605 ball screws
[13:06:19] <mutley_> C7 grade accuraccy
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[13:08:27] <jthornton> so pretty poor accuracy at +-50um in 300mm
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[13:09:18] <jthornton> so map your screw and use a comp file
[13:10:03] <jthornton> https://tech.thk.com/en/products/pdf/en_a15_011.pdf
[13:18:12] <kfoltman> jthornton: how do you map the screw? you obviously need a more precise measurement device than the screw itself
[13:20:16] <mutley_> ok so just done a remeasurement, send y axis 100mm and it moves 99.97 which is within the spec for the screw and ball nut of 0.05 accuracy
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[13:21:00] <mutley_> if i do a steps per unit calc i go from 320 to 320.096 steps per unit
[13:21:43] <mutley_> is this feasible, sshould i make the change, or is it so negligable that it is just a computation value and neglible in real world scenario
[13:22:37] <mutley_> on a 50mm diameter circle, the ovality is approx 0.4mm
[13:29:39] <pcw_home> so nearly 10X the screw accuracy limits...
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[13:33:28] <pcw_home> well maybe less if ovality is DMax-DMin so a .4mm difference is only a 100 U deviation from path
[13:35:27] <mutley_> i think its a combination of the minimum and maximum of the deviation, so 0.2 off course
[13:35:40] <mutley_> or 0.2 deviation from path
[13:36:11] <mutley_> but at opposite ends, bear in mind the ovality follows the start point, so if i move start point round 90 degrees, the points of ovality move with it
[13:37:39] <mutley_> i am almost at the point where ill do another fresh reference cut, start the cutting at the 12oclock position, measure finished item and then go back to CAD and do a scaling to compensate
[13:38:07] <mutley_> and then cut the oval part which will hopefully come out circular
[13:38:29] <pcw_home> that does point to a trajectory generator error
[13:40:10] <mutley_> pcw_home: in respect to the generated code, or the machine interpreting that code? i have done checks on the CAD, it is effectively zero error, i have check gcode values in the gcode at the points of ovality and they seem to be pointing to corect points
[13:40:21] <pcw_home> is the circle done with G2, G3?
[13:41:11] <mutley_> a plain ciurcle is done with g3
[13:42:02] <mutley_> and the elements of arcs in the actual gcode of the part are done G3 also
[13:42:02] <pcw_home> is that interpreted by the program or the external controller?
[13:42:30] <mutley_> external controller i believe, but what would your thought be in either case
[13:42:57] <mutley_> ie CNC-USB sends stream to the controller which in turn controls stepper drivers and all other inout
[13:42:59] <pcw_home> Use linuxcnc!
[13:43:23] <mutley_> i may tend toward that tbh but im not sure i can do that at this point in time,
[13:44:11] <mutley_> i need to get parts out the door :( (btw i realise what im saying when aying this) i have used this package for a while, i like it, its good aside from this one relatively minor innaccuracy, but when cuttong meshing gears it becomes a problem
[13:45:16] <pcw_home> you might try CAM that generates the circle with line segments since it sounds to me like the G2,G3 is broken
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[14:06:07] <archivist> no way I could cut gears with that sort of inaccuracy, upgrade to linuxcnc
[14:07:09] <archivist> if you have a suitable PC and break out board it would not take long to try
[14:10:46] <mutley_> archivist: unfortunately i dont
[14:12:14] <archivist> by the way, arrive and a tangent at the circle start
[14:12:19] <archivist> at a
[14:13:15] <archivist> to try and get rid of any trajectory planner issues between your arrival direction and the circle
[14:14:18] <JT-Shop> mutley_, if you don't have any backlash then map the screw and use a comp file
[14:15:04] <archivist> which is something he can do when he upgrades to linuxcnc :)
[14:15:06] <mutley_> map the screw? i have tried putting the part down in different places on the Y and X and no difference, very consistent
[14:15:51] <JT-Shop> oh he is not using LinuxCNC?
[14:16:35] <archivist> nah this http://www.planet-cnc.com/index.php?page=faq
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[14:17:48] <mutley_> ok look for what its worth, i took this machine on as it was, i had to do quite a bit of mechanical work to it and that is now all complete,
[14:18:37] <mutley_> ugrading to a different controller, ok i take that avice but it is not practical for now, and given that it is suposed to be current state of the art, its actually not a bad package, it is my guess i jusst dont have a correct setting somewhere, and a clue is all i need
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[14:19:34] * JT-Shop wonders why he is here then
[14:19:52] <archivist> mutley_, "state of the art" you may have been over sold on that
[14:20:18] <mutley_> archivist: you seem to have a hair out of place, quick get in front of a mirror
[14:20:20] <mutley_> ;p
[14:20:39] <mutley_> im talking litral, ie its not 1970'd stuff that they sent the tin can to the moon with
[14:21:06] <mutley_> if indeed it did leave the surface of this planet at all
[14:21:17] <archivist> remember all your fault descriptions are pointing at your trajectory planner, and that is on your board
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[14:31:47] <Loetmichel> mutley_: apollo was in the 60ies
[14:32:04] <Loetmichel> so it is more likely 50ties stuff that voyaged to the moon ;-)
[14:32:47] <mutley_> lol i was going to say, perhaps i should have said concived in the 60's, like myself but born in the 70's
[14:38:10] * Loetmichel was born a few months prior to "a small step ..."
[14:38:37] * mutley_ was born approx 9 months after a small step
[14:38:42] <mutley_> ;p
[14:39:09] <Loetmichel> "good luck mr gorsky" :)
[14:40:32] <mutley_> no wonder i have funny turns when its full moon
[14:50:09] <mutley_> ok so out of interest, to switch to linuxcnc, id need a pc box, with parr port preferably, and my steper driivers just connectin into the db25 connector? or will i need other hardware etc
[14:51:16] <mutley_> i have a box with a par port, but i guess id need to install linux too ;p
[14:51:51] <archivist> you may need a breakout board to make wiring easy
[14:52:13] <Loetmichel> mutley_: linuxCNC comes wiht an ubuntu 10.04 install cd
[14:52:15] <Loetmichel> ;-)
[14:53:14] <Loetmichel> archivist: if he hase a cheap cheniese tb6560 board or similar the breakout is on his board already ;-)
[14:53:37] <mutley_> i might have a breakout board actually
[14:53:41] <archivist> I said "may"
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[14:56:46] <ktchk> sliptonic: Hello Hello
[14:57:16] <mutley_> ill uload a pic of it when this cut is finished but i think i have one, it has the db25 and db15, 5 stepper connectors, a usb port (i think for power) and some other gubbongs on it, about 90mm square
[14:57:19] <sliptonic> ktchk: Hi.
[14:57:20] <mutley_> in fact it is a breakout board
[14:57:47] <ktchk> sliptonic: I made the 12.04 heekscad working
[14:58:19] <sliptonic> ktchk: Is that with Dan Heeks' new v1.0?
[14:58:26] <ktchk> I found a pythonbrew that can switch between 2.6 2.73
[14:58:30] <ktchk> Yes
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[14:58:47] <sliptonic> Great. I was able to install it also using neomiliums packages on Mint.
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[14:59:15] <ktchk> sliptonic: The problem is the python must be 2.6
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[14:59:44] <ktchk> ubuntu 12.04 default is 2.73
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[15:00:15] <ktchk> github have a pythonbrew that can switch between
[15:00:27] <sliptonic> Hmm. Mint has 2.7.6 and I had no problems.
[15:01:19] <ktchk> is it possible that Mint have 2.6 also build in
[15:01:26] <sliptonic> What kind of error? Was it not launching at all?
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[15:02:08] <ktchk> it will launch but the screen will go black if any line is on it
[15:03:14] <sliptonic> Nope. No 2.6 installed and no black. Strange.
[15:05:01] <ktchk> If Don put back the chamfer I will like to pay for it
[15:05:45] <ktchk> May be 2.7.6 works and 2.7.3 not
[15:06:19] <sliptonic> jumped to #heekscad
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[15:29:13] <PetefromTn_> Mornin' folks..
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[15:54:09] <seltecc> kann bei linuxcnc keine 5 achsen configurieren...
[15:54:34] <seltecc> immer nur 4 achsen sichtbar
[15:55:32] <seltecc> how to configure 5 axis in linuxcnc with the 5 axis breakout board?
[15:57:00] <seltecc> what to select in the configuration selector?
[15:57:31] <archivist> read the break out boards pinout and select the pins as needed
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[15:58:44] <seltecc> yes, ok the pins are not the problem .... I get no B direction and step in the selection of the pins...
[15:59:37] <archivist> what basic setting did you select
[16:00:40] <seltecc> thats the problem....I do not know witch one to choose..
[16:01:13] <archivist> pick a 5 axis mill
[16:01:45] <seltecc> cause there is no 5 axis in the configuartion selector...
[16:02:03] <archivist> once you get out of the ordinary stepconf becomes less useful
[16:02:41] <XXCoder1> heys
[16:02:58] <archivist> create a 3 axis, then hand edit the files to add what is needed
[16:03:26] <seltecc> I searched under > axis but there is no 5 axis ...
[16:03:27] <archivist> but I seem to remember you can set a and B ok in stepconf
[16:03:48] <seltecc> in what file shall I edit it ...?
[16:04:45] <seltecc> unfortunately only xyza or xyz can be selected...
[16:04:47] <archivist> once you have created the basic setup you will have some files, .ini and .hal in a folder
[16:04:57] <seltecc> yes
[16:05:20] <archivist> then copy the A to a B and set pins as needed
[16:05:39] <archivist> which is what I did years back
[16:06:07] <seltecc> in both files?
[16:06:52] <archivist> some stuff is in the ini and some in the hal
[16:07:38] <seltecc> will I get the pin selection for a and b then?
[16:08:10] <archivist> once you hand edit forget stepconf it is broken and it cannot read edited files
[16:08:53] <Tom_itx> where's libmodbus.dev located?
[16:08:53] <archivist> the person who wrote stepconf thinks it is too hard to parse the files
[16:09:05] <Tom_itx> i tried to grab it but it said.. not found
[16:09:11] <seltecc> ok, but how to assign the pins then?
[16:09:24] <mutley_> i wonder if my Z axis is tramming
[16:09:32] <archivist> you can see the connection to pins in the hal file
[16:09:54] <seltecc> ah, ok..
[16:10:02] <mutley_> i have measured and checked its vertical movement, ie dti gauge raising and lowering with a piece of ground bar in the spindle
[16:10:04] <archivist> seltecc, the basic setting for an axis is in the ini
[16:10:43] <seltecc> ok...
[16:11:01] <mutley_> i seem to notc a very slight incline on the teeth where the runout is worst, yet on the good teeth, it seems stright, also as i insert the gear, the deer the mesh the stiffer it gets due to this incline it ppears
[16:11:09] <archivist> mutley_, you need to check squareness of the vertical slide to base and the spindle axis parallel to slide
[16:11:31] <mutley_> archisit i did this with a dti and raising lowering the sindle
[16:11:38] <mutley_> both in the x plane and y plane
[16:11:56] <tjtr33> that hceks that the centerline of the spindle is coincident with the travel of the Z, does not check the Z travel is perp to XY motion
[16:12:09] <mutley_> i wonder if ive stumbled across a clue
[16:12:28] <tjtr33> put cyl aqr on table and indicator in spindle to check latter
[16:12:36] <tjtr33> cylinder square
[16:13:07] <archivist> mutley_, or a dti in the spindle to the flat of the table
[16:13:15] <archivist> and rotate
[16:13:22] <tjtr33> yah
[16:13:38] <mutley_> ok ive check sindle runout, thats ok
[16:14:08] <mutley_> ive had a steel bar in the spindle and raised and lowered z with the dto sitting on the bed, testing agains the bar
[16:14:09] <archivist> this is not run out it is spindle axis square to table
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[16:14:43] <mutley_> mmm how do i explain this
[16:14:50] <mutley_> ok pics
[16:14:52] <mutley_> 2 mins
[16:15:42] <archivist> it is this sort of test http://www.shars.com/product_categories/view/807222357/Spindle_Square
[16:15:48] <mutley_> ok so before pics, cos bed is a mess
[16:16:50] <tjtr33> archivist, i just dont get the idea of those twin indicators, esp if mounted in a spindle ( which often can turn ;)
[16:17:29] <tjtr33> 1 indicator swunbf over bed or even over 123 blocks will do same with less ( usually better way )
[16:17:36] <archivist> only needs one indicator offset :)
[16:17:55] <mutley_> so, piece of 8mm steel bar in the spindle, dti sitting on the bed, resting against steel bar, i spin the spindle, everything ok....
[16:17:58] <mutley_> next check
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[16:18:36] <archivist> tjtr33, like this http://www.measureshop.biz/en/measuring-instruments/dial-bore-and-depth-gauges/centring-devices/diacator-centring-devices.html
[16:18:37] <mutley_> same setup, bar in spindle, dti facing steel bar against Y plane, lift and lower spindle, it goes up and down square
[16:19:10] <mutley_> do same again, but with dti positioned 90 degrees aound so its resting against the x plane of the bar, raise and lower, all good
[16:19:41] <mutley_> if i was tramming in either or direction, id expect to see one of those two tests to show movement on the dti? yes no?
[16:19:51] <archivist> that only checks the spindle axis is parallel to the slide
[16:19:52] <tjtr33> archivist, thats a new model to me, i just use a mirror
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[16:20:21] <mutley_> archivist: even if raising and lowering the spindle with the dti resting against the bar
[16:20:31] <archivist> yes
[16:21:29] <archivist> see that dti link put dti in spindle offset to go around a circle and measure the table flatness
[16:21:31] <tjtr33> motley if the indicator on the atble was mounted on a 45" sine bar, you'd see same thing. now imagine the table is at 45 to the spindle, same thing. but you';re missing that the table and spindle aint sqaure to each other
[16:22:20] <mutley_> mmmm ok im trying to compute this in my mechanical mind
[16:22:57] <archivist> once you see the error on a dti it will become obvious
[16:23:46] <tjtr33> wow, the centricator is made by Deckel?
[16:23:47] <mutley_> well i know one thing for sure
[16:24:04] <mutley_> this problem is really depressing me and having an impact on my pocket :(
[16:24:16] <tjtr33> http://www.michael-deckel.com/index.php?page=1019&language=uk
[16:24:33] <tjtr33> gorgeous! thx archivist
[16:24:34] <seltecc> the hal and ini files are to complicated, I would like to select the proper one from the configuration selector .......
[16:25:11] <archivist> tjtr33, I have a broken centricator
[16:25:46] <seltecc> can anyone tell me what to chose from the configuration selector to get xyzab in the stepconf?
[16:25:53] <archivist> seltecc, I think you have to start with the xyza and copy the A to B
[16:26:22] <seltecc> copy the a to b means?
[16:26:22] <archivist> please complain to the stepconf writer
[16:26:35] <tjtr33> archivist, that site is cool, the cnc grinder has a stauble 6dof for too chgr, and uses NUM cnc
[16:26:45] <archivist> editing the ini and hal after you get basic configs
[16:27:17] <archivist> I need a new glass for my centricator
[16:28:45] <seltecc> sure, as I said earlier in basic setup hal and ini look quite complicated and the fact that someone wants to use a 5 axis machine is not so odd...
[16:29:15] <tjtr33> i'd like to find the old deckel single lip cutter grinder. really handy to make tools with hss blanks
[16:29:37] <seltecc> so there shall be a simple way of choosing a 5 axis
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[16:29:57] <archivist> seltecc, I know that, I have 5 axis too, stepconf is only for simple setups
[16:30:10] <tjtr33> seltec, the menu of free stuff is only free, not complete ;)
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[16:30:36] <archivist> patches welcome as they say
[16:31:14] <seltecc> sad but true?
[16:33:18] <archivist> it is not difficult to edit 4 to 5 axis
[16:33:41] <XXCoder1> linuxcnc supports various axis eh. I wonder how many axis max it can run
[16:33:48] <archivist> 9
[16:34:01] <XXCoder1> interesting
[16:34:49] <tjtr33> again, it is possible to edit code and make more than 9, or to make motions outside of the 9 ( hal controlled motion)
[16:35:09] <tjtr33> or hi-jack a joint during a pause ( thc )
[16:35:22] <XXCoder1> I can imange 8 axis - x1,y1,z1,a1 for stock holder part, and x2,y2,z2,a2 for tool holder part
[16:35:24] <archivist> hobbing is hal mod :)
[16:36:18] <XXCoder1> highest I ever saw was 13 - its very complex wire bender utility
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[16:39:07] <seltecc> by the way .... what are the shortcuts for manual jog on the keyboard for a and b?
[16:39:34] <seltecc> not shortcuts but keys...
[16:41:19] <archivist> <> and [] but I had to map some myself
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[16:42:51] <archivist> I used this to map two keys http://article.gmane.org/gmane.linux.distributions.emc.user/12642
[16:42:57] <seltecc> ok...other than <> and [] ?
[16:43:14] <archivist> you can change the mapping
[16:43:44] <seltecc> is there a chat room for electronics on irc also?
[16:43:56] <archivist> ##electronics
[16:43:56] <Loetmichel> many
[16:44:19] <archivist> it is a bit noisy in ##electronics
[16:44:31] <seltecc> on freenode...?
[16:44:39] <archivist> yes
[16:44:59] <Loetmichel> archivist: it is noisy anywhre in the frequented channels ;-)
[16:45:28] <archivist> some channels are deadly quiet
[16:46:25] <atom1> i avoid ##electronics
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[16:46:43] <IchGuckLive> hi all B)
[16:46:43] <atom1> too ot for me usually
[16:47:03] <IchGuckLive> seltecc: ini and hal is just 5min into it and yiou are pro
[16:47:23] <archivist> atom1, some ot has been kicked, needs the ops to work harder
[16:47:35] <XXCoder1> hey ich
[16:47:41] <IchGuckLive> hi XXCoder1
[16:48:00] <XXCoder1> archivist: I'm in the ultimate quiet room, #cnc
[16:48:15] <XXCoder1> its registered even lol
[16:48:32] <archivist> #cam is quiet
[16:48:35] <atom1> archivist, i left a long time back... maybe it's better now
[16:48:52] <IchGuckLive> cnc communication network counter
[16:48:53] <mutley_> ok so dti in spindle, i seem to be getting a reading that correlates with where im getting this ovalness....seriously confused now, going to go to shop and think on the way
[16:49:10] <seltecc> ok...
[16:49:44] <IchGuckLive> seltecc: if you got specific problem everyone here is nice to jump in
[16:49:47] <archivist> mutley_, the rotation of your oval cannot come from the spindle
[16:49:53] <mutley_> ok my background is car mechanics so im pretty clued up on mech systems forces moments levers etc ie i have "some" understanding
[16:50:30] <tjtr33> mutley when you drill into a surface at 45deg you get an ellipse ( exaggeration )
[16:50:33] <mutley_> i get that i have measured spindle moving up and down with a bar in it, inline wth X and Y planes seperately
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[16:51:07] <os1r1s> Does anyone have any good sources on fixturing? Web sites, books, etc?
[16:51:13] <mutley_> also that i have measured concentricity and runout on the spdinle itself
[16:51:24] <IchGuckLive> os1r1s: what country
[16:51:32] <archivist> but that ellipse will aways be in the same direction if the angle stays the same
[16:51:38] <os1r1s> IchGuckLive: US
[16:51:39] <mutley_> but then dti in the psndle and rotating on a peice of flat stock
[16:52:33] <IchGuckLive> os1r1s: sorry im only on metric fixxing at kit prises 40USD M8
[16:52:41] <mutley_> im getting high and low pooint matching up with where my ovalness is....at this point i am going to make the assumption that what i was seeing with the start point change and ovalness rotating was more a figment of imagination fog of war etc
[16:53:30] <atom1> os1r1s, http://www.carrlane.com/Articles/StPartCL.cfm
[16:53:33] <archivist> mutley_, what hardware(mill) ?
[16:53:34] <mutley_> drill point at angle is a good example, does help picture it
[16:53:50] <mutley_> home build (njot built by me oroginally)
[16:53:55] <tjtr33> os1r1s, www.carrlane.com www.jergensinc.com google for loads of guides and class notes
[16:54:12] <os1r1s> IchGuckLive: I'm not as worried about metric vs imperial. I can do either for the fixtures if necessary.
[16:54:12] <PetefromTn_> ssi Ya there man?
[16:54:15] <archivist> nothing wrong with home build, just need setting up
[16:54:16] <os1r1s> atom1: tjtr33 Thanks!
[16:54:36] <seltecc> ichGuckLive: klar aber bislang konnte mir niemand sagen wie ich 5 achsen bekomme im stepconf...
[16:54:49] <mutley_> archivist: absolutely, it just wasnt well built and ive had to do a heck of a lot of rework
[16:54:51] <tjtr33> http://www.opensourcemachinetools.org/archive-manuals/milling_fixtures_MSR_No4_1912.pdf fun
[16:54:54] <mutley_> guess i missed something perhaps
[16:55:05] <mutley_> right, shop, ciggies and sugar
[16:55:14] <atom1> os1r1s, apparently this is a class: http://www.toolingu.com/class-100210-fixture-design-basics.html
[16:55:20] <IchGuckLive> os1r1s: you are looking for somthing like that http://www.paulimot.de/epages/paulimot.sf/de_DE/?ObjectPath=/Shops/paulimot/Categories/Spannpratzen__Niederhalter
[16:56:08] <os1r1s> Very cool. Thanks!
[16:56:18] <tjtr33> at the library there was a goto book, the author wrote like 5 volumes. sorry i forgot the name, but its been at every librayr from chicago to texas to boston for me
[16:57:18] <atom1> https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=11&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CFQQFjAK&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.sme.org%2FWorkArea%2FDownloadAsset.aspx%3Fid%3D73755&ei=7GfBU5LuLsHG8QHy04HYBA&usg=AFQjCNGSaHNa4mvyxvzKOrF67A50JbsZJQ&bvm=bv.70810081,d.b2U
[16:57:34] <atom1> pdf of the sme.org course i think
[16:58:10] <atom1> nm, it's just an overview
[17:01:02] <os1r1s> So if you are cutting a 25mm profile out of a 50mm square, do you typically leave tabs or do you just let that piece float when the profile is complete?
[17:02:08] <atom1> you can leave a skin on the last cut and punch the part out of it
[17:02:32] <atom1> maybe .005-.010
[17:02:35] <IchGuckLive> os1r1s: depends on profile
[17:02:56] <atom1> there's always more than one way to do something
[17:03:34] <tjtr33> google 'glue stops' for wedm ( similar )
[17:04:21] <IchGuckLive> seltec querry
[17:04:31] <os1r1s> tjtr33: Will do. Leaving tabs is simple, but they can be a pain to clean. It seems like many just let the piece loose ...
[17:04:45] <os1r1s> But I was fearful I'd send the part flying or break the bit
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[17:05:48] <IchGuckLive> as i said depends on profile for best fixing
[17:06:17] -!- atom1 has quit [Quit: Leaving]
[17:06:20] <IchGuckLive> soometimes its better to stick inside and cut overturned finish
[17:06:44] <IchGuckLive> sometimes better to shape outside first then inside
[17:07:09] <IchGuckLive> sometimes you can drill hole and fix to cutplate for finish
[17:07:13] <IchGuckLive> ......
[17:07:48] <IchGuckLive> 1pice or 10 oices make a clamp holder special part
[17:07:59] <os1r1s> IchGuckLive: Gotcha. Sometimes I can't put a hole in the middle part though. Thats what I was trying to figure out ..
[17:08:07] <os1r1s> IchGuckLive: But great advice. Thank you
[17:08:39] <IchGuckLive> or even if part is low cut intens vaccum downforce
[17:08:51] <IchGuckLive> it is the knolige to do best
[17:09:04] <IchGuckLive> seltecc: hit mi nick please
[17:09:11] <IchGuckLive> y
[17:09:18] <tjtr33> pix for tabs http://www.carvewright.com/assets/tips/CarveWright_Tips_and_Tricks_May08.pdf
[17:10:09] <IchGuckLive> tjtr33: expiriance is all
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[17:14:17] <os1r1s> tjtr33: The open source machine tools site is full of great stuff
[17:14:25] <os1r1s> Thank you for the link
[17:15:42] <tjtr33> we used magents on wedm, and even crazy glue, it depended. sometimes needed jack under the die to support the slug. inany process its bad id the slug shifts and changes the uniform kerf
[17:16:09] <tjtr33> a shift will ruin the rest of the profile
[17:16:47] <os1r1s> tjtr33: I have a vacuum table that I use for PCBs, but I've never wanted to use it with metal
[17:17:28] <IchGuckLive> plastic is best to go vaccuum
[17:17:44] <IchGuckLive> or things like that junk
[17:18:08] <IchGuckLive> seltecc: still with us ?
[17:18:16] <tjtr33> when doing thin graphite we used vacuum tables, and covered the cut kerf so we didnt loose vacuum
[17:19:33] <IchGuckLive> i got a thincut plate about 0.5mm with micro holes in it between the pice and the table
[17:19:51] <IchGuckLive> this gives you a very hard clamp
[17:20:11] <IchGuckLive> as the microholes closes when in free air
[17:20:17] <os1r1s> tjtr33: One of my goals is to figure out how to make setup a bit easier/faster. It always seems like I spend 2 hours setting up and 10 minutes running a part.
[17:20:26] <IchGuckLive> and pull slight open wen on part pressure
[17:21:23] <IchGuckLive> os1r1s: thats most of the time the case
[17:21:36] <IchGuckLive> long setup short cut
[17:21:44] <IchGuckLive> on 1pice part
[17:23:11] <tjtr33> IchGuckLive, url for the microhole material?
[17:23:37] <ssi> PetefromTn_: am now
[17:23:41] <IchGuckLive> oh it is not online i guess the table supplyer got it in stock
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[17:24:05] <IchGuckLive> but i will ask him tjtr33
[17:24:35] <IchGuckLive> its 5euros a pice at 6040
[17:24:51] <tjtr33> sound like its sacrificial, maybe registering pcbs with pins would help ( repeatable and reversable ) cameras and fiducals would work but i dont know cheap solution for that.
[17:25:05] <tjtr33> IchGuckLive, thx!
[17:26:06] <CaptHindsight> tjtr33: psha's version of camview and $25 of 780p webcam did the trick
[17:27:26] <CaptHindsight> I still have to write up that howto, getting all his packages installed is a bit confusing
[17:28:00] <tjtr33> os1r1s, ^^^ google this camview for linuxcnc! thx CaptHindsight
[17:31:17] <CaptHindsight> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?Axis_Embed_Video http://psha.org.ru/b/camview-emc.html http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?Adding_Digital_Zoom_To_Camview-Emc
[17:31:53] <CaptHindsight> but you'll run around in circles since it's all stubs of info scattered on multiple websites and pages
[17:33:56] <CaptHindsight> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?Adding_Camview I'm only this far along on writing the clear step by step howto
[17:35:07] <CaptHindsight> there are additional plugins for generating the offsets automatically after finding the fiducuals in the camera
[17:35:53] <tjtr33> IchGuckLive, thx!
[17:36:00] <IchGuckLive> NP
[17:36:14] <IchGuckLive> but i need to make clear that this is the stuff
[17:47:42] <scooty_puff> does anyone have a recommendation on a servo control theory book?
[17:49:44] <tjtr33> you'll have more luck looking for 'control theory' as servo control is an implementation of a control strategy
[17:51:17] <tjtr33> basically its this theres whatchawant and whatchagot, the diff is the error, the strategy reduces the error
[17:51:23] <scooty_puff> i understand control systems pretty well. i am looking more into wiring and controlling industrial servos
[17:51:47] <ssi> the wiring's the easy part :P
[17:51:58] <tjtr33> you can apply the above to heat position speed desiredweight ...
[17:54:08] <tjtr33> oh ok, look for the specifics dc brushed control of vel or brushless vector drive control, loads of papers, some books too.
[17:54:25] <ssi> also torque mode vs velocity mode
[17:54:45] <tjtr33> no favorites, i prefer to use off the shelf controls at that level
[17:56:52] <ssi> I haven't found a good source of inexpensive motors
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[17:58:04] <tjtr33> textbook: Servo Motors and Industrial Control Theory (Mechanical Engineering Series) [Hardcover] by Riazollah Firoozian
[18:00:41] <tjtr33> if you have a friend with ASME or Springerlink access, you can get loads of papers ( and make him my friend when you find one , i hate not getting at data )
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[18:01:42] <mutley_> ok so been trying to get my head around this issue, ovalness, and the slanted drill is a good example
[18:02:02] <CaptHindsight> http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL3D4EECEFAA99D9BE 40 Video Lecture Series Mechanical - Design of Machine Elements
[18:02:20] <mutley_> i have some pics uloading but have issue in my mind with something about Z not being straight and why another method of measurng isnt actually doing the same measurement
[18:03:22] <mutley_> so if you had a slanted drill plunging vertically youd get an oval hole, but then if you measured it with dti risng up and down you would also see that it was slanted from the dti readong
[18:03:30] <mutley_> yes/no?
[18:03:57] <mutley_> so measuring like this http://imgur.com/mdBWGyY
[18:04:47] <mutley_> so in the image you can rotate the spindle and check runout, but you can also raise and lower Z to see if there is any slant along the X or Y
[18:05:17] <mutley_> either way, when doing both checks in that manner, everything is good
[18:05:37] <mutley_> but then doing this http://imgur.com/s2jbmdC
[18:05:52] <mutley_> i get a reading that correlates with the oval im getting
[18:06:08] <mutley_> but i cant get ma head around it.....why?
[18:06:24] <CaptHindsight> assuming that the drill bit isn't warped or twisted
[18:06:49] <mutley_> well lets assume that
[18:06:59] <archivist> http://imgur.com/mdBWGyY that does not show axis to table only spindle to Z slide
[18:07:03] <mutley_> but for the measurement im using some ground 8mm stock
[18:07:37] <mutley_> archivist: ??
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[18:08:12] <archivist> one is sliding up and down the drill the later is the oval
[18:08:16] <mutley_> are they not effectively the same, if the table is flat
[18:08:23] <archivist> no
[18:08:55] <tjtr33> 1st measures spindle to table, 2nd msrs spindle/slide to table they are NOT the same, thats your error in perception, they do not measure the same thing
[18:09:05] * archivist points at a Rover engine with the cylinder face at 22 degrees
[18:09:10] <mutley_> but if the drill were not pointing straight down, as you lift and lower, the drill would move further and closer to the dti?
[18:09:24] <archivist> no
[18:09:57] <archivist> think of motor cycle forks the slide is in a straight line
[18:10:01] <tjtr33> this is a stock apprentice problem, you are at the edge of an important basic truth keep at it
[18:10:05] <mutley_> surely it would, as it wouldnt be pointing stright down, btw i doing that both in the Y and X planes, two seprate measures
[18:10:08] <archivist> but not vertical
[18:10:30] <mutley_> lol its been nearly 30 years since i started my mechanics apprenticeship
[18:10:36] <tjtr33> nice gantry btw
[18:10:37] <mutley_> dont tell me im back at square one lol
[18:10:51] <mutley_> its not a nice gantry its a real fucking nightmare ;p
[18:10:56] <mutley_> but thanks anyway lol
[18:11:13] <mutley_> "nice tits" oh thanks but their fake
[18:11:16] <mutley_> lol
[18:11:35] <archivist> he my machine wins the fugly race
[18:11:39] <archivist> hey
[18:11:50] <mutley_> so ive walked the dog thinking bout this,, drawn sketches and lines etc
[18:12:25] <mutley_> in my mind, the up and down, checking it both along X and Y is the same as the dti in the spdinle test...i dont get it
[18:12:48] <mutley_> unless of course theres runout on the spindle or bit but again, either test would show it
[18:13:09] <mutley_> because im tryin to work out what to rip apart and hit with a hammer
[18:13:37] <archivist> this is not a run out test, this separates out the squareness of the spindle axis to table
[18:14:28] <CaptHindsight> I'm trying to find a drawing or video to show him
[18:14:29] <mutley_> so are you saying, and exaggerated for examples sake....if the table was at 45 degrees, ive got to make the rail point to the table at 45 degrees
[18:14:32] <archivist> I would use a precision level on the table, get that flat, then use a level to check the Z slides
[18:15:05] <mutley_> archivist: that is EXACTLY what i did, but i was figuring a level wouldnt be accurate enough
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[18:16:03] <mutley_> ie when i originally rebuilt the thing, but im guessing i got something wrong hence tryong to measure now
[18:16:12] <mutley_> and do it without the bubbles
[18:16:16] <tjtr33> level does not make Z normal to xy, level eliminates some tension that could eff up the rest of your measures
[18:16:49] <archivist> depends how good your level is and more important are the X and Y parallel with the table
[18:16:50] <tjtr33> level is important, but aint normal ( perpendicular motion )
[18:18:41] <mutley_> ok i get that, so then......
[18:18:58] <mutley_> mmmm
[18:19:31] <archivist> I use a box square or a clinometer http://www.collection.archivist.info/showresult.php?prog=1&srcprog=searchv13.php&srcdata=title&Type=PD&Accn_no=6986&subject=23773
[18:19:47] <archivist> clinometer is lower right
[18:21:22] <mutley_> ok the sextant looking thing in grey
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[18:21:30] <mutley_> clin 'ell ;p
[18:21:32] <archivist> yes
[18:21:39] <mutley_> btw loving the old schooastr briefcase
[18:21:49] <mutley_> schoolmaster*
[18:22:01] <archivist> ex bosses tool box
[18:22:09] <mutley_> lol
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[18:22:24] <archivist> he uses that for customer visits to fix clocks
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[18:22:52] <mutley_> ahh a man that always has his eye on the time
[18:23:13] <archivist> nah clockmakers are never on time
[18:23:30] <mutley_> ok so im wondering if i have to pull that whole gantry apart and try to resquare it, starting from scratch and then go from there
[18:24:12] <mutley_> mmmm is a penny dropping
[18:25:08] * archivist looks at the top bottom gantry screws are they in phase
[18:25:28] <mutley_> archivist: ???
[18:25:54] <mutley_> you mean X ball screw?
[18:26:15] <mutley_> and theres only one ball screw on X and one on Y
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[18:26:27] <archivist> ok only one when I zoomed in,
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[18:28:31] <archivist> ok now for the evil test, set dti as in first image, lean on various places see how far it moves, in line with slides laft right top bottom at all slides separately
[18:30:18] <mutley_> archivist: yea i did that one a while back, ad it was all over the place, added braces to the table legs and it is now very solid, in fact rechecked just now while taking the pic, i get about 10-20 microns
[18:30:47] <mutley_> but will explire it a bit further i think, wont take a mo to whizz around and check
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[18:36:55] <tjtr33> you gotta separate stiffness from geometry, wiggly could make ovals by allowing lean, but you still have to make spin;de par to Z travel and Z travel perp to X&Y travels, and work surface par to X&Y travels.
[18:38:05] <mutley_> ok its pretty stiff, and im levelling it back out again now
[18:39:06] <archivist> looks less fugly than my homebrew
[18:39:48] <archivist> to get gears right use a rotary axis anyway
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[18:44:08] <mutley_> archivist: you mean like one of these http://imgur.com/qMK1xvh
[18:44:45] <archivist> or a better one of those
[18:45:06] <archivist> who made that one
[18:45:33] <mutley_> its only a soba
[18:45:42] <mutley_> but its pretty much unused
[18:46:14] <mutley_> archivist: so your suggesting cut one tooth all the way down at a time, spin the table a few degrees, machine next tooth
[18:46:22] <archivist> is that 90-1
[18:46:23] <mutley_> and so on
[18:46:28] <mutley_> errr
[18:46:44] <mutley_> no 36:1
[18:47:38] <archivist> ok the low reduction rotaries are less good you may get dividing errors
[18:47:53] <archivist> the vertex is 90-1
[18:48:04] <mutley_> i need a gear tooth every 7.06 degrees
[18:48:09] <mutley_> 51 teeth
[18:48:32] <archivist> I made my machine for gear cutting :)
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[18:49:38] <IchGuckLive> 90:1 is great
[18:49:41] <cncformywife> Goooood morning
[18:49:49] <IchGuckLive> max force at best accurace
[18:49:58] <IchGuckLive> hi
[18:50:13] <IchGuckLive> cncformywife: did you wife g-code today
[18:50:22] <mutley_> mmm i think that will be too prone to error given the gear teeth numbers and the ratio of that rotary
[18:50:24] <archivist> mutley_, with a vertex I would expect no problems at all
[18:50:35] <cncformywife> no.. and me too :(
[18:51:16] <IchGuckLive> BAD
[18:51:43] <IchGuckLive> i got near record today 106 sheets 2x1m plasma cut
[18:51:46] <archivist> mutley_, I tested a bunch of low reduction rotaries at the old place and some were nearly 2 3rds of a degree out
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[18:52:47] <archivist> mutley_, my 6 inch B is a soba but I only use that to tilt the A vertex rotary
[18:52:48] <IchGuckLive> i mounted direct on the gear the clamp
[18:53:06] <IchGuckLive> so i got 400* 90 =36000 steps
[18:53:56] <IchGuckLive> so 100steps per deg
[18:55:17] <mutley_> mmm
[18:55:19] <archivist> any wonderful step qty is ruined by a bad rotary
[18:55:48] <mutley_> i think rotary out of question for me
[18:56:02] <archivist> only vertex as far as I know of the lower cost suppliers published an angular spec
[18:56:43] <mutley_> ha im sutting here looking at the machine and wondering and egging it ti fix itself while i have a coffee and cig
[18:56:49] <mutley_> fucking thing
[18:56:59] <IchGuckLive> im off BYE
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[18:57:11] <archivist> trust me using a rotary is the right way for gears
[18:57:48] <mutley_> why not a cnc operation that goes round in circles so long as it is squared and striahgt etc
[18:58:15] <archivist> because you cannot make the root form correct 3 axis
[18:58:21] <CaptHindsight> Linuxnc is running well on the new branch of Gnome2 on Mint Debian Mate with the 3.4.55 RTAI kernel, if anyone else wants to try it
[18:58:50] <ssi> I have a rotary table and I've almost never used it
[18:58:51] <ssi> :P
[18:59:32] <mutley_> archivist: how can you not if you have the right diamet bit fo the root of the tooth
[19:01:25] <tjtr33> CaptHindsight, I'll try it out ( tho Mint Debian Mate makes me think australian girl scouts are at the door )
[19:01:29] <archivist> because the root to flank is too small for a sensible size end mill http://www.archivist.info/gear/designbevel.php
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[19:02:20] <archivist> bottom images
[19:02:48] <CaptHindsight> tjtr33: heh, but Mate is not pronounced May-t, it's the Spanish version Mah-tay
[19:03:22] <tjtr33> CaptHindsight, i found LMDE 201403 but is RTAI an addon pkg? is Gnome2 add on pkg, or is there some bundle to grab?
[19:03:36] <CaptHindsight> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MATE_%28software%29
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[19:03:56] <archivist> mutley_, and the ratchet wheel on this page http://gears.archivist.info/gears/index.html
[19:04:42] <tjtr33> ooh gauchos on the pampas, the yerbe mate hour is famous in sci-fi
[19:04:42] <archivist> square bottoms on clock wheels http://gears.archivist.info/gears/p1010063_500.jpg
[19:05:03] <CaptHindsight> tjtr33: Linux Mint "Debian" - 201403 MATE 32-bit http://www.linuxmint.com/edition.php?id=99
[19:05:58] <tjtr33> ok, heres goes my bandwidth :)
[19:06:12] -!- h_maximilian [h_maximilian!~bonsai@] has joined #linuxcnc
[19:06:20] <archivist> get unlimited :)
[19:06:42] <CaptHindsight> tjtr33: use deb http://linuxcnc.org precise base for the kernel and RTAI sudo apt-key adv --keyserver hkp://keys.gnupg.net --recv-key 8f374fef , sudo apt-get install linux-image-3.4.55-rtai-2 rtai-modules-3.4.55-rtai-2
[19:07:01] <mutley_> archivist: interesting stuff
[19:07:05] Cylly is now known as Loetmichel
[19:07:34] <CaptHindsight> tjtr33: use the buildbot debs for Linuxcnc http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?LinuxCNC_On_Ubuntu_Precise
[19:08:43] <CaptHindsight> tjtr33: if the install has missing dependencies for libboost-python1.46.1, libgnomeprint and libgnomeprintui, grab them from the precise main and universe repos
[19:08:44] <archivist> mutley_, the steel bicycle chainwheel was not cnc but a manual horizontal rotary
[19:09:14] <tjtr33> CaptHindsight, thx, getting the base iso now
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[19:09:47] <archivist> mutley_, made on this machine http://www.archivist.info/cnc/works2008/P1010207.JPG
[19:10:54] <CaptHindsight> tjtr33: ping me with any issues
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[19:16:30] <CaptHindsight> tjtr33: they haven't been really clear without digging but Mint Mate is new work based the dead Gnome2, they picked up where the Gnome devs left off
[19:18:37] <CaptHindsight> tjtr33: and the debian version is based on Debian Testing, but I'm not sure what cute name the Debian devs currently use for that Testing version
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[19:20:44] <anarchos2> what does TLO mean on the DRO screen?
[19:22:09] <tjtr33> CaptHindsight, thx
[19:22:30] <tjtr33> anarchos2, tlo tool len offset dro digitsal read out
[19:22:32] <tjtr33> bbl
[19:22:43] <CaptHindsight> hasta
[19:24:38] <anarchos2> hmm
[19:25:13] <anarchos2> and i'd set the tlo in gcode i'd presume?
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[19:33:48] <seltecc> what are the keys for a and b axis for manual jog ?
[19:34:23] <archivist> I said already
[19:34:48] <archivist> <> and [] but I had to map some myself
[19:35:08] <archivist> I used this to map two keys http://article.gmane.org/gmane.linux.distributions.emc.user/12642
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[19:46:30] <seltecc> were is the location of the ~/.axisrc or do I have to create it?
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[19:51:05] <seltecc> I searched for it but could not find it...
[19:52:17] <CaptHindsight> seltecc: you create it if it's not already there
[19:52:59] <CaptHindsight> http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/2.4/html/gui_axis.html#r1_11_4
[19:56:43] <seltecc> in the folder of hal file?
[19:57:07] <anarchos2> hmm, just reading into gladevcp, pretty cool
[19:57:50] <CaptHindsight> seltecc: the folder with your HAL and .INI
[19:57:54] <anarchos2> also, touchy. has anyone tried running touchy on a remote X server?
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[19:59:39] <seltecc> thx
[19:59:40] <anarchos2> ie: running it on the linuxcnc box but controlling/using touchy from an android tablet?
[20:02:20] <CaptHindsight> anarchos2: not sure about Touchy but people do it with Axis
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[20:03:27] <CaptHindsight> and machinekit is going that direction where you control your VMC from your smartphone or tablet while sitting on the beach
[20:04:03] <anarchos2> excellent.
[20:04:03] <archivist> why would you risking the machine via crappy comms
[20:04:30] <anarchos2> what's machinekit?
[20:04:40] <archivist> that is bling that will do you no good
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[20:05:17] <CaptHindsight> archivist: you'll have to ask them, but it plays with glue guns
[20:05:21] -!- sumpfralle [sumpfralle!~lars@on1.informatik.uni-rostock.de] has joined #linuxcnc
[20:05:31] <archivist> hehe
[20:05:57] <archivist> the bling and oooo shiny generation
[20:06:08] <anarchos2> i was more thinking touch controls on a shitty little android tablet would be cool, moreso than sitting on the beach :P
[20:06:51] <archivist> I have seen too many wifi drop outs to think that would be a good idea
[20:07:20] <CaptHindsight> anarchos2: if tablets had PCIe ports I'd be happy to use them for controlling small hobby machines
[20:07:42] <pcw_home> Even Ethernet
[20:07:55] <CaptHindsight> ^^ +1
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[20:10:24] <XXCoder1> CaptHindsight: did anyone ever use literal glue gun to make stuff? lol
[20:10:43] <archivist> I bet that is how it started
[20:10:47] <CaptHindsight> unglorified? yes
[20:11:27] <XXCoder1> http://www.instructables.com/id/Hot-Glue-Gun-Extruder-for-Your-CNC-Machine-or-3D-P/
[20:12:11] <anarchos2> where's the std configuration directory? manual refrences it constantly but doesn't say where it is :P
[20:12:35] <CaptHindsight> I give that 3 out of 5 bananas for DIY
[20:14:32] <XXCoder1> result seems suprising good so dar
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[20:15:02] <CaptHindsight> there are lots of hotmelt formulations
[20:16:00] <CaptHindsight> it should perform as well as the other glue guns if they use a smaller nozzle
[20:19:19] <anarchos2> well it kinda works :P
[20:19:33] <anarchos2> touchy + vnc enabled + vnc viewer on android
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[20:41:35] <CaptHindsight> the nice thing about deposition with hot melts is that you get to choose from a wide range of properties, soft, flexible, hard, rigid and melt and slump temps and rates
[20:43:31] <XXCoder1> yeah
[20:43:42] <XXCoder1> someone menioned that weed wracker wires could be used
[20:43:43] <XXCoder1> weird
[20:44:05] <XXCoder1> they am cheap and common though just dunno what plkastic lol
[20:44:48] <CaptHindsight> whatever is low cost and holds up to whacking at the time
[20:45:26] <CaptHindsight> most common thermoplastics are $1-2/lb in pellet form
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[20:46:40] <XXCoder1> I do prefer abs'
[20:46:43] <ssi> I have an ugly hacky filament extruder kit that I got off kickstarter
[20:46:45] <ssi> but I haven't finished it
[20:46:55] <XXCoder1> uit dont melt in car, as well as smoothable by acetone vapor
[20:47:37] <CaptHindsight> ssi: what does it use for an extruder screw?
[20:47:43] <ssi> an auger bit
[20:47:46] <ssi> hehe
[20:47:59] <ssi> and it's a piece of iron pipe with a window milled into it to feed the auger
[20:48:39] <t12> http://www.intelligentactuator.com/tt-table-top-robot/ just scored a pair of these for a project
[20:49:30] <t12> nice little prebuilt thing i wonder how it will be in practice
[20:49:45] -!- XXCoder2 [XXCoder2!~XXCoder@c-24-19-85-77.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #linuxcnc
[20:50:56] <CaptHindsight> IAI is on the bargain end of industrial/lab automation
[20:51:28] <CaptHindsight> it should work well
[20:52:49] <CaptHindsight> they also make linear servos, Cartesian systems and Scara's
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[20:53:19] <CaptHindsight> http://www.intelligentactuator.com/multi-axis-robots/
[20:53:36] <CaptHindsight> http://www.intelligentactuator.com/ix-scara-series-robots/
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[20:57:16] <Deejay> gn8
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[20:58:06] <CaptHindsight> http://www.intelligentactuator.com/robo-cylinders/ lots of these on ebay
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[21:24:15] <CaptHindsight> http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Hotsale-10-2-Flytouch-7-android-4-0-GPS-tablet-pc-Allwinner-A10-1-5GHz-superpad/621223976.html tablet that has ethernet, but it's the older single core A10
[21:24:30] <XXCoder2> ethernet tablet??
[21:24:35] <SpeedEvil> 'more items related to robo cylinder'
[21:24:37] <SpeedEvil> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Fischertechnik-516186-Computing-Robo-TX-Electro-Pneumatic-4-Models-Parts-440-/141088828095?pt=UK_Construction_Toys_Kits&hash=item20d98caabf
[21:24:48] <XXCoder2> find one with parallel port yet? ;)
[21:25:14] <CaptHindsight> maybe it's worth looking into getting hm2_eth working on ARM
[21:25:31] <XXCoder2> please do
[21:25:38] <XXCoder2> ethernet on my android laptop dont work
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[21:26:10] <CaptHindsight> XXCoder2: often there are unused GPIO with traces on the boards in the tablets
[21:26:58] <XXCoder2> cheapest of all lol http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Allwinner-A31-A31S-Tablet-Quad-Core-7-inch-1-5Ghz-Tablet-PC-1GB-RAM-8G-ROM/1935299533.html
[21:27:09] <CaptHindsight> A20 GPIO has been toggled into the MHz range, but interrupt latency was ~80uS with preempt_rt
[21:27:17] <XXCoder2> surpising good. has 3g
[21:27:36] <XXCoder2> has hdmi, otg, mini usb, tf card
[21:27:42] <XXCoder2> two webcams
[21:28:01] <XXCoder2> if it ha gps I probably'd have bought it
[21:28:48] <XXCoder2> 8 gb rom LOL
[21:29:12] <CaptHindsight> we're almost done with the new linuxcnc port to the A20
[21:29:21] <XXCoder2> comes with actual keyboard case
[21:29:22] <XXCoder2> damn!
[21:29:24] <XXCoder2> so tempted.
[21:31:38] <XXCoder2> http://www.aliexpress.com/item/3G-Tablet-PC-Phone-Call-GPS-Bluetooth-FM-WIFI-Dual-Camera-1024-600-HD/1317735303.html has gps but crappier stats
[21:32:42] <SpeedEvil> Read properly
[21:33:01] <SpeedEvil> 99.9999% of cheap '3g' tablets mean that you can plug a USB 3G dongle in
[21:33:10] <SpeedEvil> They do not come with 3g
[21:33:29] <XXCoder2> yeah "3G External"
[21:33:31] <SpeedEvil> That one does claim built in.
[21:33:40] <SpeedEvil> But - well...
[21:34:55] <SpeedEvil> If googling the model number comes up with >6< hits...
[21:35:34] <XXCoder2> http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Quad-Core-10-1-inch-1024X600-DDR2GB-ram-HD16GB-Wifi-Camera-HDMI-Tablet-PC-Tablets-PCS/1926257462.html seems pretty powerful
[21:36:49] <SpeedEvil> It's probably simpler to find a small board
[21:37:21] <SpeedEvil> http://www.minnowboard.org/meet-minnowboard-max/ - say
[21:38:53] <gene78> 5i25 question, can I read a GPIO pin in the base-thread?
[21:39:30] <ssi> I don't usually even have a base thread in my 5i25 machines
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[21:40:32] <gene78> I can't use the pwmgen in my machine because I'm manufacturing a stop when direction changes state
[21:40:51] <gene78> Or at least I don't think so.
[21:42:56] <gene78> otherwisew I can't run a g33.1 cycle
[21:43:17] <CaptHindsight> looks like A20 netbooks are <$100 with on chip ethernet, if they can work with hm2_eth that might be handy
[21:43:39] <CaptHindsight> use extra USB ethernet dongles for internet access
[21:44:42] <XXCoder2> my pc uses a donglke for internet access lol
[21:48:44] <ssi> dong-like?
[21:54:28] <anarchos2> http://www.aliexpress.com/item/150Mbps-150M-Mini-USB-WiFi-Wireless-Adapter-Network-LAN-Card-802-11n-g-b-2-4GHz/1621683351.html
[21:54:39] <anarchos2> any way to tell if that's gonna work with ubuntu?
[21:54:46] <anarchos2> probably not..
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[21:55:23] <XXCoder2> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/WifiDocs/WirelessCardsSupported
[21:57:35] <anarchos2> ah, thanks
[21:57:45] <XXCoder2> dunno hpw updated but np
[21:57:49] <anarchos2> found one that advertises it's chipset and linux compatability
[21:58:06] <anarchos2> $4.18, free shipping :)
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[22:04:32] <XXCoder2> got link?
[22:04:40] <XXCoder2> my current wifi dongle sucks
[22:05:07] <anarchos2> http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Mini-150M-USB-WiFi-Wireless-Network-WI-FI-Networking-Card-LAN-Adapter-with-Antenna-Computer-Accessories/1246811930.html
[22:05:19] <XXCoder2> whoa
[22:05:24] <CaptHindsight> they list everything except for the wifi chip :)
[22:05:26] <XXCoder2> external attenta!
[22:05:34] <XXCoder2> antenna
[22:05:35] <anarchos2> i bought it on ebay for $6.75, free ship from the US
[22:05:47] <anarchos2> figured i'd get it quicker
[22:06:33] <anarchos2> http://www.ebay.ca/itm/802-11n-g-b-150Mbps-Mini-USB-WiFi-Wireless-Adapter-Network-LAN-Card-w-Antenna-/200755616792?pt=US_USB_Wi_Fi_Adapters_Dongles&hash=item2ebdf79c18&_uhb=1
[22:07:52] <XXCoder2> heh with this you cn actually use canntenta
[22:08:10] <XXCoder2> connect to mcdonalds mile away lol
[22:08:10] <anarchos2> heh
[22:08:20] <anarchos2> i don't have line of sight to anything :/
[22:08:33] <CaptHindsight> McD's has free open wifi?
[22:08:54] <XXCoder2> some do
[22:09:19] <anarchos2> most of Canada's do
[22:09:23] <anarchos2> also, Starbucks
[22:10:12] <ssi> around me, starbucks has the WORST internet
[22:10:27] <CaptHindsight> starbucks down around here used to be open
[22:10:45] <anarchos2> i've never actually used it. i'm grandfathered into a pretty good data plan on my phone, 6gb/mo is way more than i'd ever really use
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[22:11:12] <anarchos2> also my cable internet is included in my rent
[22:11:14] <CaptHindsight> I haven't gone in years but I seem to recall having to have some sort of account to use it there
[22:11:20] <XXCoder2> heh infinite data here
[22:11:24] <XXCoder2> $40 a month
[22:11:31] <ssi> "infinite"
[22:11:34] <XXCoder2> infinite everything but mms and zero voice miniutes
[22:11:42] <anarchos2> i pay $30/mo for 6gb. it now costs $35/mo for 1gb
[22:12:00] <XXCoder2> cananda SUCK on internet isps
[22:12:24] <CaptHindsight> I get unlimited phone internet but only the first 5GB is at high speed
[22:12:36] <anarchos2> besides that i drop connection all the time, my shaw cable is pretty good
[22:12:42] <anarchos2> especially since i don't pay for it :P
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[22:14:33] <CaptHindsight> the Uverse guys trenching past here knocked the power out last week, anyone compared Uverse to Comcast?
[22:14:42] <ssi> upstream blows
[22:15:03] <CaptHindsight> on both or just the uverse?
[22:15:08] <ssi> it's been awhile, but last I looked it was like 21mbps down, 1.5mbps up
[22:15:10] <ssi> just the uverse
[22:15:18] <ssi> I have 105 down, 30 up right now via comcast
[22:15:57] <CaptHindsight> how are your ping times?
[22:16:21] <XXCoder2> that depends on what site
[22:16:30] <ssi> the server that speedtest selects is 32m
[22:16:39] <ssi> and 121mbps down :D
[22:16:54] <CaptHindsight> whats the monthly $?
[22:17:03] <XXCoder2> waiting for speedtest
[22:17:06] <ssi> well that's hard to say exactly, cause of the way they do bundles
[22:17:15] <ssi> my total is $130, but that includes hddvr tv as well
[22:17:23] <ssi> it's $10 upcharge over the "regular" 50mbps
[22:17:25] <CaptHindsight> ah yeah internet + cable
[22:17:31] <XXCoder2> comcast, 27mbps down 11 mbps up
[22:19:00] <CaptHindsight> they sent us an offer for $30/mo for what looks like 30mb down, no TV or phone
[22:19:10] <XXCoder2> http://www.geeksaresexy.net/2014/07/08/amalgamated-art-series-transforms-pencils-into-vases-video-pics/
[22:19:27] <CaptHindsight> might be that 27mb down 11 up you mentioned
[22:19:34] <ssi> what part of the world are you in
[22:19:35] <XXCoder2> its part of package
[22:19:40] <XXCoder2> washington, usa
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[22:35:10] <mutley_> mmm
[22:35:26] <mutley_> ok so still getting my head around this spindle perpendicity
[22:35:37] <mutley_> but know more than i did this morning
[22:36:05] <mutley_> ive done a bit of an overhaual on the gantry when i noticed it had in fact shifted
[22:36:26] <mutley_> and then when i went to go and deal with it, ove got loose bolts so lock washers are in order
[22:37:38] <mutley_> but i have reduced this Z to Table runout with a dti in the spindle and rotating it
[22:37:54] <mutley_> but still got 0.2mm
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[22:38:49] <mutley_> now, wherever i push or pull, the reading on the dti is showing me the gantry doesnt want to move in the direction it needs to, it keep sgoing in poposite direction
[22:38:55] * mutley_ is confied
[22:39:03] <mutley_> confused even
[22:41:21] <XXCoder2> http://lab.whitequark.org/notes/2014-05-27/making-a-lens-using-a-cnc-mill/ HMM
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[22:55:07] <andypugh> Hmm. I need to make one of these fuel taps. http://www.geutskens.eu/neracar/images/PPL/7-Fuel%20Tank/25-Anchor%20Plate,1-gec.jpg
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[22:56:26] <andypugh> I have just noticed that there might be one hiding inside the head of: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/18-GAS-CUTTING-TORCH-AND-SPARE-NOZZLE-USED-/151342230256?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item233cb32af0
[22:59:00] <mutley_> ok so quick question on checking a machines integrity, i measure with a dti gauge the spindle going up and down with a piece of ground 8mm stock bar http://imgur.com/mdBWGyY
[22:59:32] <mutley_> and i can measure with a dti mounted into the spindle and rotate it like this http://imgur.com/s2jbmdC
[23:00:26] <mutley_> my question is, do i need to do both measurements, or is the second image with the dti in the spindle, a more comprehensive way of doing the measurement in the first image
[23:01:00] <mutley_> ie if i do the first measurement, is it kiind of null and void as i really need to see whats going on with the second measurement?
[23:01:00] <cncformywife> hii
[23:01:09] <mutley_> hi
[23:01:42] <cncformywife> someone know how to edit the coordinate system in solidworks?
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[23:03:01] <andypugh> mutley_: They test different things.
[23:03:41] <mutley_> yea i thought so, im still trying to get my head around the geometries / moments etc
[23:03:42] <andypugh> the first picture tells you if the Z axis goes up and down at right-angles to the XY plane
[23:04:05] <mutley_> ok thats what i seem to process in ma head
[23:04:24] <andypugh> The second tests whether the axis of the spindle is perpendicular to the XY plane
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[23:04:38] <mutley_> and you need to check that inline with both X and Z to get a full check with spindle going up and down
[23:05:10] <andypugh> You can pass test 2 with test 1 wrong by 89 degrees.
[23:05:39] <mutley_> mahn i wish someone had put it that way earlier
[23:05:49] <mutley_> but then your last comment blows my thought process again
[23:06:32] <mutley_> see, im confied again
[23:06:34] <andypugh> Consider a Z axis at 45 degrees, and a spindle mounted on the true vertical on that axis
[23:06:55] <mutley_> mmm
[23:07:28] <andypugh> That would pass test 2
[23:07:43] <mutley_> aha ok i get that
[23:08:04] <mutley_> so adjusting one of those directly impacts the other....correct?
[23:08:12] <andypugh> Yes.
[23:08:26] <mutley_> so they are a bitch to get right?
[23:09:10] <andypugh> Now, imagine your 45 degree Z axis, and a spindle exactly aligned to the axis. You actually still pass test 1. But not test 2
[23:11:08] <mutley_> ok so the order of play would be to adjust for test 1 first, then go to test 2?
[23:11:58] <cncformywife> this is how to do it!!
[23:11:59] <cncformywife> Go to the view you want to be your front view, hit space, and click update views
[23:12:00] <andypugh> Yes, then repeat, until you get bored.
[23:12:04] <cncformywife> SAVE ME!
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[23:12:49] <andypugh> cncformywife: I have given up with that in Inventor, and change systems in the CA<
[23:12:53] <andypugh> (CAM)
[23:13:02] * mutley_ uses Rhino
[23:13:21] <cncformywife> no.. it is not help!
[23:13:39] <mutley_> andypugh: i went past bored a looong time ago, im near suicidal very shortly
[23:15:07] <andypugh> mutley_: So stop. Make something. See if it is good enough for you.
[23:15:40] <andypugh> Both adjustments are second-order critical.
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[23:23:23] <mutley_> second order critical??
[23:28:21] <mutley_> so...this notepad came in useful tonight http://imgur.com/kzcVWnt
[23:28:50] <mutley_> removed 0.15mm deviation on the spindle going up and down
[23:29:34] <mutley_> and im slightly surprised at the finesse of the adjustment
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[23:31:13] <andypugh> mutley_: By second-order I mean that you don’t see the effect directly. A Z axis misalignment will not really affect Z, but will pass a small error into X and Y, as a second-order effect.
[23:31:19] <mutley_> then with the two spindle mount bolts just nipped up, i did the 2nd test, with a bit of gentle persuasion from a hammhur to knock the spindle carrier and get a very small deviation reamining on test 2, about .08-01 reading change when rotating spindle
[23:31:45] <mutley_> andypugh: aha gotcha
[23:32:23] <mutley_> that is what i was kind of figuring out, ie not the term itself, far to pro for me, but yes the impact is not direct but more affects everything else
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[23:34:26] <andypugh> My mill has a tilting head. For jobs with small cutters and small depth of cut it can be quite a long way out before it matters.
[23:34:43] <jdh> do you ever tilt your head?
[23:35:01] <mutley_> my heads been tilted all day
[23:35:09] <andypugh> You see it when drilling deep holes or facing with a big flycutter
[23:35:32] <andypugh> I actually have never tilted the head for a job as yet.
[23:36:09] <mutley_> ive got a knee mmill but its a fixed head
[23:36:18] <mutley_> this cnc was cutting gears, and they were coming out oval
[23:36:37] <andypugh> I am thinking about setting up the kinematics so that I could, though. The tilt would not be motorised, but I could tell the controller what the angle was and drill/bore angled holes.
[23:36:42] <cncformywife> rendering time!!!!
[23:37:00] <cncformywife> cpu 85 C
[23:37:36] <andypugh> My mill is pretty small, i can see over it, but it is fairly stiff.
[23:38:22] <XXCoder2> wow http://hackaday.com/2014/07/11/400-diy-cnc-machine-is-surprisingly-simple/
[23:38:26] <XXCoder2> cheap hack lol
[23:39:33] <XXCoder2> that design gives me ideas.
[23:39:54] <XXCoder2> it may be cheap but its HELL of a lot rigid gantry
[23:40:37] <cncformywife> but.. first pull table saw out of your ass
[23:40:46] <XXCoder2> wut
[23:40:53] <XXCoder2> I already own a table saw
[23:41:11] <cncformywife> i'm not..
[23:41:22] <XXCoder2> buy one from freight harbor
[23:41:39] <XXCoder2> with good jig you can cut large stuff accurately
[23:41:54] <cncformywife> never bay from them again!
[23:42:06] <cncformywife> they sucks
[23:42:20] <XXCoder2> definitely not accepting their bays ;)
[23:42:38] <XXCoder2> of course they suck. but then if it works well enough it works well enoug
[23:44:55] <cncformywife> 100% pure junk.. and if you want to return it.. they start to do problems..
[23:44:57] <andypugh> XXCoder2: Some stiffeners on the side of the gantry uprights wouldn’t hurt.
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[23:45:12] <XXCoder2> andy got example
[23:45:18] <XXCoder2> cnc 100% pure junk? nah
[23:45:24] <cncformywife> my computer sooo hot. i cant type.
[23:45:41] <andypugh> But there is a guy on the LinuxCNC forums happily making aluminium golf-cart wheels on an all-wood machine.
[23:45:50] <cncformywife> XXCoder2: no! the HF products is 100% pure Junk!
[23:46:06] <jdh> sometimes junk is all that is needed.
[23:47:36] <cncformywife> he he http://www.harborfreight.com/4-in-mighty-mite-table-saw-61608.html
[23:47:54] <cncformywife> WTF^
[23:48:32] <andypugh> That’s quite cute. Ideal for bagels.
[23:48:33] <XXCoder2> wow thats small
[23:48:46] <XXCoder2> and if you wanna cut small peices thats great
[23:48:50] <XXCoder2> like airplane modeling
[23:48:59] <jdh> I bought a compound sliding miter saw from HF. Used it for some big stuff then put it away for a few months. Tried it again and it kicked the work straight out and bashed the hell out of my hand.
[23:49:17] <XXCoder2> it's just angry you left it alone
[23:49:27] <jdh> since I am a slow learner I tried it again. When I could feel my hand again, I threw it away.
[23:49:28] <cncformywife> sorry' cant type.. the keyboard too hot.
[23:49:40] <cncformywife> cpu 92C
[23:49:40] <XXCoder2> get a water cooled keyboard
[23:49:50] <andypugh> cncformywife: Get a better computer :-)
[23:49:58] <andypugh> Or, wear glves.
[23:50:07] <andypugh> (gloves)
[23:50:09] <XXCoder2> if its a laptop check vents for dust if its that hot
[23:50:21] <cncformywife> i'm on the state of the art MAC!
[23:50:29] <andypugh> Yeah, that hot sounds rather wrong
[23:50:35] <jdh> I got some antifreeze, a bucket and hooked up my chinese spindle and included water pump. The pump is fairly quiet and seems to work fine
[23:50:56] <andypugh> cncformywife: which Mac?
[23:51:15] <cncformywife> mac pro 13"
[23:51:28] <andypugh> If it’s an iMac then the keyboard is haunted :-)
[23:52:12] <XXCoder2> water cooled keyboard. all I'm saying. ;)
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[23:52:14] <cncformywife> i can plug wireless keyborad.. but now i'm part of the rendeing..
[23:52:22] <andypugh> My Air never even gets warm. Have you tried googling for “macbook keyboard too hot” ?
[23:52:55] <cncformywife> OMFG the bed sooooo hot!!!!!!
[23:53:06] <cncformywife> BRB
[23:53:09] <cncformywife> one sec
[23:53:34] <cncformywife> i'm back.
[23:53:41] <XXCoder2> water cooled bed
[23:53:56] <XXCoder2> use waterfall method and pipes though matress
[23:53:57] <cncformywife> i put some box under the computer
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[23:55:50] <cncformywife> DONE!
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