#linuxcnc | Logs for 2014-07-08

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[00:55:11] <XXCoder> awesome! http://sploid.gizmodo.com/fall-in-trance-with-this-time-lapse-video-of-wood-shave-1601281149
[00:56:51] <jdh> got the rest of my 6040. Went to check the web site for something and they seem to have stopped selling it in the last week.
[01:01:19] <CaptHindsight> jdh: did you get the last one?
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[01:01:45] <jdh> could be!
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[01:02:21] <XXCoder> you guys should watch the video
[01:03:25] <jdh> what video
[01:03:30] <XXCoder> http://sploid.gizmodo.com/fall-in-trance-with-this-time-lapse-video-of-wood-shave-1601281149
[01:03:43] <XXCoder> not that silly gif
[01:03:47] <jdh> does it have kittens?
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[01:28:49] <jdh> anyone happen to have config info handy for carving-cnc 6040? driver timings, screws, uSteps, etc?
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[01:32:03] <t4nk567> Does anyone here deal with EMC Clariion CX3 SAN arrays?
[01:32:48] <jdh> EMC = CNC machines run by LinuxCNC
[01:33:14] <t4nk567> rofl so i got the wrong emc
[01:33:48] <jdh> this EMC is no longer EMC due to your EMC's lawyers
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[01:35:07] <ds3> EMC == Electro Magnetic Compliance
[01:36:34] <ds3> how do most folks here deal with moving projects in progress between machines? (alignment/realignment/etc)
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[01:36:54] <jdh> have good index points on the work
[01:37:19] <ds3> how do you line up the index points?
[01:38:04] <ds3> say, you start a project on a 3D printer, move it to a laser cutter for trimming, and then to a mill for final surfacing
[01:39:24] <ds3> i know the old school method is to have a jig with a reference surface to locate the index points but...
[01:42:36] <jfigie> PCBs use tooling holes to align board to test machines and fixtures
[01:43:10] <jfigie> I have done that with work where i machined one side then flipped the part over.
[01:43:56] <ds3> isn't that a lot of work for one off's?
[01:44:10] <toastyde1th> that's why one-offs are expensive
[01:44:36] <ds3> been thinking of a camera to locate points and then feeding the X/Y's of the marks into a perl script to rewrite G-code
[01:44:49] <ds3> trying to find a way around it
[01:45:02] <ds3> problem is no single machine does everything
[01:45:22] <jfigie> why rewrite the gcode. just do rotational and linear translation.
[01:45:42] <ds3> is there a way to do it with G-code by itself?
[01:46:43] <toastyde1th> generally speaking auto-alignment in the g-code produces terrible looking parts
[01:46:56] <ds3> think a few years ago I asked about something like g54 to do it and it doesn't exists at that point
[01:46:59] <toastyde1th> it's best to print a part and treat it like you would a casting - your first operation is to machine reference surfaces on it
[01:47:37] <toastyde1th> usually cast parts will have reamed holes for location
[01:47:56] <ds3> that's what I remember from classes... for what I am thinking of, that'd would almost certainly mean having to do jigs to hold it
[01:48:04] <toastyde1th> nah, usually you just have a plate
[01:48:13] <ds3> isn't the plate the jig?
[01:48:20] <ds3> or do I have the wrong terminology?
[01:48:23] <toastyde1th> sure, but it's not one-part
[01:48:46] <toastyde1th> our shop had a bunch of jig plates and we just drilled holes in them as necessary, and marked off in the job book which plates had which holes
[01:49:04] <toastyde1th> and stamped numbers into the plate, so you'd have "plate 4, holes 24, 25, 26"
[01:49:28] <toastyde1th> lasts for years
[01:49:33] <toastyde1th> tons of jobs
[01:49:39] <ds3> ah and the plate would work for many parts by calling out different holes?
[01:49:41] <toastyde1th> esp. if you re-use the same fixturing pattern
[01:49:42] <toastyde1th> yep
[01:50:00] <toastyde1th> and we used spring pins, in the part
[01:50:10] <toastyde1th> not super accurate but close enough, within a few tenths
[01:50:24] <ds3> I'd be happy if I can get within a few thou
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[01:51:14] <toastyde1th> the only issue is usually hold-down, you either need bolt holes in the part, or toggle clamps
[01:51:24] <ds3> would I be correct in concluding that cameras are not good enough?
[01:51:28] <toastyde1th> usually we had bolt holes in our parts anyway so we just marked and tapped the plate, too
[01:51:39] <toastyde1th> cameras can be good enough, but error prone
[01:51:50] <ds3> for stuff I am thinking of, magnets are sufficient hold downs
[01:52:02] <ds3> error prone in what way?
[01:52:14] <toastyde1th> you never have the part sitting on the table the same way twice
[01:52:21] <ds3> i.e. is it worse then trying to use a wiggler or a mechanical edge finder
[01:52:23] <toastyde1th> and most machines have servo problems at certian angles
[01:52:36] <ds3> I see
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[01:53:10] <toastyde1th> with true alignment, you can have the part the same way in the machine, every time, and you can take it out, put it back, and be reasonably sure that no more than .001" will come off if you run the part again
[01:53:45] <toastyde1th> a camera works just fine for x,y alignment, just like an edge finder would
[01:53:49] <ds3> that's for the same machine... I'd think you lose more then that if you move to a different machine...i.e. mill to lathe
[01:54:01] <jfigie> if you have to pins or holes in the part you can use a coaxial indicator or center scope to locate the 2 holes. But I don't think this is very fast way to align the part
[01:54:02] <toastyde1th> that is entirely setup dependant
[01:54:25] <toastyde1th> for instance, if you really do care, you can pop new holes in your plate every single time
[01:54:36] <toastyde1th> and then your part positional tolerance is within the machine's free path tolerance
[01:55:31] <ds3> that's the other half that I been thinking of - what if my "1 inch" isn't really 1 inch... can I just scale it to use the 1st machine's definition of 1 inch
[01:55:38] <toastyde1th> sure
[01:55:54] <toastyde1th> the biggest source of error is in setup - any other errors can, with care, be calculated out
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[01:56:47] <ds3> that almost sounds like something you need to learn as an apprendice rather then by reading
[01:57:02] <toastyde1th> it takes practice, really
[01:57:23] <toastyde1th> read about geometric tolerancing and positioning, and then think to yourself, "how am i generating these errors"
[01:57:36] <toastyde1th> what is my machine, what is my setup
[01:58:14] <ds3> I went through a class on GD&T... it is connecting that to reality that I am trying to do
[01:58:56] <toastyde1th> a pair of aluminum vise jaws are the most accurate fixture you can have in the shop
[01:59:08] <toastyde1th> the more of your setup you can machine in place, the more accurate you will be.
[01:59:21] <toastyde1th> everything that comes from off the machine and is put on, the more error.
[02:00:00] <ds3> no arguments with that; it is the moving between machines that has me scratching my head
[02:00:10] <toastyde1th> why?
[02:00:23] <toastyde1th> if you have fixture 1 on machine 1, and fixture 2 on machine 2
[02:00:44] <toastyde1th> as long as both fixtures are cut on their respective machines and not moved, you're going to have the same zero point on the part in both machines
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[02:01:45] <toastyde1th> because you no longer have to align everything, you picked an arbitrary zero and cut from there.
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[02:05:34] <ds3> but how do I transfer the '0' and orientation between the machines?
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[02:25:24] <toastyde1th> you don't - you zero the machine, and cut the fixture wherever it's zeroed
[02:26:04] <toastyde1th> you don't pick a particular zero
[02:26:10] <toastyde1th> you just say "here's good enough"
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[02:30:42] <skunkworks_> actually saw this on a car today.. http://www.ebay.com/itm/like/111184329130?lpid=82
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[04:31:02] <anarchos> can linuxcnc run multiple machines from the same instance?
[04:35:19] <zeeshan> at the same time?
[04:36:12] <anarchos> yea
[04:36:23] <zeeshan> not that i've seen
[04:36:40] <zeeshan> you can have multiple configurations
[04:36:50] <zeeshan> but i don't think you can run em at the same time
[04:37:06] <anarchos> i 'spose it would be possible to run multiple linuxcnc boxes communicating to each other
[04:37:21] <zeeshan> yea
[04:37:34] <zeeshan> what are you trying to do
[04:38:12] <anarchos> i'm day dreaming about an overhead 6 axis robot arm on a gantry crane that can load/unload/manipulate parts on multiple cnc mills
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[04:38:42] <zeeshan> do you know how it's done in industry?
[04:38:45] <XXCoder1> heh if we ever find a way to use 4th dimension...
[04:38:48] <anarchos> nope
[04:39:01] <XXCoder1> we would have x, y, z, w axises
[04:39:06] <zeeshan> so like say you're going from a turning operation -> robot -> grinder
[04:39:22] <anarchos> yeah, exactly
[04:39:38] <zeeshan> when the turning operation (program ends), it'll switch an output on a PLC
[04:40:05] <zeeshan> the plc then outputs a robot operation start
[04:40:25] <zeeshan> when the robot program ends, another relay is switched which the plc sees
[04:40:34] <zeeshan> and then the grinder operation starts
[04:40:45] <zeeshan> so basically what im saying is there is a master PLC that controls it all
[04:40:48] <anarchos> hmm
[04:40:52] <anarchos> that makes sense
[04:41:15] <zeeshan> they add a lot of redunancy steps in between
[04:41:42] <zeeshan> like they'll actually have a physical detector to see if for example the robot actually loaded the part right
[04:41:53] <zeeshan> cause say the gripper of the robot is worn out
[04:41:55] <zeeshan> the program ends
[04:42:06] <zeeshan> plc will think everything is good to go, and the grinder operation starts
[04:42:15] <zeeshan> and the part flys out the machine :p
[04:42:19] <anarchos> heh, yeah
[04:43:26] <zeeshan> XXCoder1: i'll 4th dimension you
[04:44:57] <anarchos> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UKKmq3baVdA
[04:45:07] <anarchos> this is what inspired me to try out cnc :P
[04:45:29] <anarchos> it's a company that makes high end bike pedals on the island
[04:45:36] <anarchos> good stuff
[04:46:31] <zeeshan> anarchos: good "flexible manufacturing systems"
[04:46:41] <zeeshan> thats what a lot of high production places use these days
[04:49:06] * zeeshan is tired of welding heavy stuff
[04:49:13] <anarchos> they have another video of a "pallet loader", not exactly sure what it's loading, but looks pretty neat
[04:49:18] <zeeshan> this new customer i made keeps on bringing me thick plate!!!
[04:49:19] <zeeshan> http://i.imgur.com/AAV93ar.jpg
[04:49:50] <zeeshan> im curious to know what kind of machine he's using to bend 5/8" plate
[04:50:10] <toastyde1th> a great stoking press brake, perhaps?
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[04:51:57] <tjtr33> anarchos, linuxcnc cannot communicate with linuxcnc. such capability is in the ToDo list for machinekit. ihave not heard of effort to do same in linuxcnc.
[04:52:10] <zeeshan> 80000psi steel, 4" wide, .625 thick, you need rougly 320,000lb of force!
[04:52:10] <tjtr33> so a machine wont tlak to a robot , for instance
[04:52:18] <zeeshan> so i don't think its a typical brake press
[04:53:09] <zeeshan> actuallly more like 250000lb
[04:53:15] <zeeshan> 320,000lb to shear
[04:53:55] <toastyde1th> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aPmZLIBo4ig
[04:53:58] <toastyde1th> we got this
[04:54:07] <zeeshan> 1500 ton!!
[04:54:07] <toastyde1th> IN THE BAG
[04:54:08] <zeeshan> damn
[04:54:18] <zeeshan> holy shit
[04:54:20] <zeeshan> that's massive
[04:54:40] <zeeshan> looks like it's meant to form steel plates for massive oil tankers?
[04:54:40] <zeeshan> ;p
[04:55:32] <toastyde1th> pressure vessels, mostly
[04:55:44] <zeeshan> cool
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[05:11:49] <anarchos> ooh snap
[05:11:51] <anarchos> :D
[05:12:55] <anarchos> motor controllers coming from china have been shipped via DHL, even though I didn't pay the extra for that
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[05:13:40] <anarchos> might screw me over with brokerage fees, though :/
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[05:14:19] <toastyde1th> i hate dhl so much
[05:14:37] <anarchos> must be better than china post, though?
[05:14:42] <anarchos> heh
[05:15:13] <toastyde1th> never had a problem with china post, actually
[05:15:17] <anarchos> i've had two things from china take like two months to get to me, long after I've got a refund and forgot about the item (all really cheap stuff less than $10)
[05:16:18] <zeeshan> anarchos: where are you
[05:16:28] <zeeshan> canada?
[05:16:42] <anarchos> yea
[05:16:49] <zeeshan> theres a dhl office near hamilton
[05:16:54] <zeeshan> they didnt charge me any brokage :D
[05:16:57] <zeeshan> on a 200$ item
[05:17:13] <anarchos> you picked it up from the office?
[05:17:21] <zeeshan> yea
[05:17:34] <zeeshan> it was weird, it was the first time ive been inside a sorting facility
[05:17:38] <anarchos> did you act as your own broker, or just got lucky?
[05:17:39] <zeeshan> i had to go through like 2 check points lol
[05:17:43] <zeeshan> just got lucky
[05:17:55] <anarchos> hmm, why did you go pick it up?
[05:18:00] <zeeshan> they told me i had to
[05:18:02] <anarchos> they didn't deliver it to your house?
[05:18:06] <zeeshan> nope
[05:18:15] <anarchos> hmm....i'm a little bit far away from any DHL office i'm sure
[05:21:40] <anarchos> really this means i need to get off my ass and get a power supply...i thought i'd have like a month before getting the controllers :P
[05:21:56] <zeeshan> what size motors
[05:22:30] <anarchos> just nema 23s
[05:22:36] <anarchos> 425oz, 4.2a
[05:22:51] <zeeshan> i bought a toriodal supply from cnc4pc
[05:22:54] <zeeshan> working nice so far
[05:23:17] <anarchos> if i would have known, i would have bought a supply with my cnc4pc order. or automation direct.
[05:23:27] <anarchos> i hate paying for shipping :P
[05:23:29] <zeeshan> btw, dont buy their smps supply
[05:23:33] <zeeshan> mine blew the fuck up
[05:23:34] <zeeshan> lol
[05:23:37] <anarchos> smps?
[05:23:42] <zeeshan> switched mode power supply
[05:23:47] <anarchos> ah
[05:23:49] <zeeshan> according to cnc4pc
[05:23:56] <zeeshan> you need a snubber circuit
[05:23:57] <zeeshan> or something
[05:24:04] * zeeshan doesnt know much about microelectronics
[05:24:12] <zeeshan> but it literally shot sparks everywhere
[05:24:26] <zeeshan> but i was driving 1200oz-in steppers
[05:24:37] <zeeshan> 6A (i forgot)
[05:24:40] <anarchos> me either :P
[05:24:42] <zeeshan> power supply was rated for 72v 8A
[05:25:06] <anarchos> i was thinking of going for one of these, http://www.cnc4pc.com/Store/osc/product_info.php?cPath=27&products_id=579
[05:25:35] <anarchos> can get them for $30 inc shipping direct from .cn, but don't want to be waiting around for a psu if i have all my other components :P
[05:25:44] <zeeshan> http://www.cnc4pc.com/Store/osc/product_info.php?cPath=27&products_id=610
[05:25:45] <zeeshan> i had that
[05:25:48] <zeeshan> thts what blew up
[05:26:08] <zeeshan> the one you posted
[05:26:09] <zeeshan> doesnt say
[05:26:16] <zeeshan> 'Capacitors must be used to absorb Back EMF currents. This power supply works very good with the '
[05:26:30] <zeeshan> so i guess it will be fine
[05:26:36] <anarchos> yeah
[05:26:41] <anarchos> fingers crossed :P
[05:28:02] <anarchos> maybe i'll try and find some din rail mounted supplies
[05:28:08] <anarchos> get all fancy like
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[06:54:21] <Deejay> moin
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[07:19:27] <Loetmichel> mornin'
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[07:20:03] <alex_joni> mornin'
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[07:27:55] <Loetmichel> hmm... can someone suggest a good and cheap ultrasonic cleaner aviable in germany? one that has 1-2 liters tank and 100++W? (not the 30W glasses toys, i have one of those already)
[07:42:12] <archivist> I dont remember seeing any cheap ultrasonics except for the home jewellery cleaners
[07:42:43] <archivist> and they are too effin small for sensible used
[07:42:46] <archivist> use
[07:43:50] <archivist> I do wonder if it is about time there was an open source design and the piezo devices are cheap
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[11:48:24] <jthornton> good and cheap never seem to fit in the same sentence
[11:49:54] <agile_netvark> well, they can
[11:49:59] <agile_netvark> the magic triangle.
[11:50:32] <agile_netvark> good - cheap - fast: choose two. that's how you'll receive your product :P
[11:50:57] <agile_netvark> or service, or whatever.
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[11:54:46] <Smidge204__> jthornton> good and cheap never seem to fit in the same sentence <-- That was a sentence in which they both appear :D
[12:02:49] <Jymmm> He did say "fit", not appear.
[12:03:45] <Jymmm> jthornton: Are you using ABP ?
[12:04:17] * jthornton does not know ABP
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[12:05:13] <Jymmm> jthornton: ABP = Ad Block Plus. It's a browser plugin that blocks things like tracking, bloat, ads, etc. It could reduced your bandwidth usage
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[12:05:50] <Jymmm> jthornton: https://adblockplus.org/en/firefox
[12:05:54] <jthornton> aye I use AB but didn't know they had a Plus version
[12:06:32] <Jymmm> I have NFC what AB is. Thery are a few that sounds the same but aren't
[12:07:00] <jthornton> I thought at one time it was just Ad Block
[12:07:21] <Jymmm> No that I'm aware of. Could be I guess
[12:07:27] <Jymmm> Not*
[12:07:41] <Jymmm> I have seen clones though
[12:22:46] <XXCoder1> zeeshan|2: nice video
[12:33:58] <XXCoder1> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uDaKzQNlMFw nice video
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[12:42:18] <Jymmm> XXCoder1: Eh
[12:42:45] <Jymmm> XXCoder1: 4th Dimension is MUCH simpler to explain than that video
[12:42:54] <XXCoder1> oh earlier I was kinda kidding and was explaining about 4d cnc
[12:43:07] <Jymmm> Yeah... NO
[12:43:13] <XXCoder1> you can imanage how powerful that machine would be
[12:43:25] <Jymmm> That is called a TIME MACHINE
[12:43:47] <XXCoder1> you can make it use hypercyl bit so it can drill anywhere. its cross sections is all spheres
[12:44:00] <XXCoder1> uh no. 4th SPATIAL dimension.
[12:44:07] <Jymmm> 4th dimension is just the addition of time.
[12:44:14] <XXCoder1> its not
[12:44:34] <Jymmm> Think of a jet plain at a certain elevation, lat/lon at a given time.
[12:44:41] <XXCoder1> our spacetime is 3 + 1 dimension. if time was 4th dimension it would be 4d, but it is not
[12:44:55] <Jymmm> It is, I dont give a shit what physics say
[12:45:19] <agile_netvark> you know nothing, jon snow.
[12:45:34] <Jymmm> Now 5th dimension is another story.
[12:47:25] <Jymmm> XXCoder1: Apply what I said to the video you just watched.
[12:47:45] <XXCoder1> no. its like someone telling me to apply unicorn dust to my cnc design
[12:48:04] <pcw_home> Wouldn't you like to ride in my beautiful balloon?
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[14:11:25] <maximilian_h> hello
[14:13:55] <maximilian_h> when I am homing a machine and the axis display does not display the homed symbol behind the position even though the axis.N.homed is TRUE for N in 1..5. It is a gantry setup with X X Y Z and C axes. 2.6 pre4
[14:15:17] <maximilian_h> any ideas what could cause this ?
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[15:12:15] <jdh> are those axes or joints?
[15:13:26] <cradek> you might have better luck with the joints_axes5 branch
[15:13:54] <cradek> with gantrykins
[15:14:09] <cradek> or, if you want to use 2.6, use trivkins and do you gantrying in hal, not kins
[15:14:25] <cradek> you don't describe how you've done the gantrying so I'm guessing
[15:14:38] <maximilian_h> using gantrykins in hal
[15:14:57] <cradek> yeah, gantrykins doesn't work very well in 2.6
[15:15:04] <maximilian_h> and in the [TRAJ] section in the ini
[15:15:05] <cradek> perhaps don't use gantrykins
[15:15:33] <maximilian_h> so better to use trivkins
[15:15:45] <maximilian_h> and somehow glue it all together in hal
[15:15:48] <cradek> yes if you want to use 2.6
[15:15:58] <maximilian_h> is 2.5 better ?
[15:16:05] <cradek> if you want to help test and develop the joints_axes branch, by all means do
[15:16:08] <cradek> no
[15:16:14] <maximilian_h> :(
[15:16:39] <maximilian_h> joint_axes5 works somehow ?
[15:17:03] <cradek> please test it and report your results
[15:17:38] <cradek> you have several approaches you could choose, according to how much you want to help test/develop future code
[15:17:52] <cradek> joints_axes5 needs testing and further development for merging in to master in the future
[15:18:02] <maximilian_h> Ok, will try. Otherwise how can I home an aditional axis in hal when it is not present in the rest of the setup ?
[15:18:09] <cradek> if you don't care to do that, use trivkins and glue it together in hal, like you said
[15:18:41] <cradek> homing is the trick. that is where you will have to do the majority of your patching. if you do not need index homing it should be fairly easy.
[15:19:08] <maximilian_h> need index homing unfortunately
[15:19:11] <maximilian_h> :(
[15:19:35] <cradek> then it is very challenging to use trivkins
[15:20:00] <maximilian_h> I love and hate to live on the bleeding edge
[15:20:04] <cradek> try joints_axes5 and gentrivkins
[15:20:08] <cradek> yeah :-/
[15:20:13] <maximilian_h> ok, I will try that
[15:20:21] <cradek> good luck, please do report back
[15:20:22] <maximilian_h> thanks for the pointers/info
[15:20:25] <cradek> welcome
[15:22:55] <ssi> maximilian_h: I'm using joints_axes in 2.6pre4 and it works well
[15:23:04] <ssi> have independent homing of my two Y joints
[15:23:20] <ssi> I'm on ja4 though, dunno what ja5 brings to the table
[15:25:45] <maximilian_h> hello ssi
[15:26:01] <maximilian_h> what are the differences between the ja branches in git ?
[15:26:11] <maximilian_h> I see ja3 ja4 and ja5 branches
[15:26:28] <maximilian_h> are they evolutions of the same work
[15:26:44] <maximilian_h> or are they indepedant ?
[15:29:31] <ssi> I'm pretty sure it's evolution of the same work
[15:29:36] <ssi> and I dunno what the differences are
[15:31:49] <maximilian_h> ssi: thanks for the info
[15:31:52] <ssi> np
[15:32:09] <maximilian_h> are you using gentrivkins as cradek suggested to me ?
[15:32:39] <ssi> yes
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[15:35:13] <maximilian_h> does sb know if and how I can set a rs274 parameter (the ones with # in the cnc code) from hal ?
[15:35:20] <maximilian_h> is that possible at all ?
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[15:38:52] <maximilian_h> and when I am homing my y axis on this one machine most of the times it works. But sometimes it just jumps in the opposite direction of where it should you and then hits estop ?
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[16:16:29] <malcom2073> So, what's a decent lightweight alternative to axis? I'm getting tired of axis locking up and crashing my machine (I really should set the soft endstops properly...)
[16:17:10] <malcom2073> Specifically, is there one that is less likely to lock up and render the keyboard estop inactive?
[16:17:39] <jdh> that does not sound like axis behavior.
[16:17:44] <cradek> nope
[16:17:50] <cradek> perhaps you have a hardware problem
[16:17:56] <malcom2073> yeah, I'm using a really low power PC heh
[16:18:07] <archivist> it is a machine short of memory behaviour
[16:18:11] <cradek> AXIS is very very stable
[16:18:12] <malcom2073> beaglebone black
[16:18:17] <cradek> oh god
[16:18:17] <jdh> oh
[16:18:27] <malcom2073> When running, it has zero issues, it's only jogging that it locks up on me
[16:19:43] <JT-Shop> oh
[16:19:44] <cradek> there is keystick, which has not been maintained since 1998 and is appropriate for hardware with 1998 power
[16:19:53] <malcom2073> It's funny, I was talking to my dad about this, and he said that axis does the same thing occasionally on his mill, which is running a full size PC
[16:19:56] <cradek> but I don't know why you'd do that to yourself
[16:20:04] <malcom2073> He told me to just not use continuous mode heh
[16:20:22] <jdh> continuous mode has always worked fine for me.
[16:20:29] <archivist> I see poor response on an old PC too
[16:20:33] * JT-Shop has never had Axis lock up unless it was self induced with a never ending loop
[16:20:57] <archivist> I blame python and lack of memory
[16:21:15] <jdh> or Obama
[16:21:19] <ssi> or Canada
[16:21:31] <cradek> it's true that if you're swapping you can get very slow response, and that will cause response to key releases to be delayed a bit
[16:21:50] <archivist> and delays to the press
[16:21:51] <cradek> a reasonable machine with reasonable ram should not ever swap just running linuxcnc
[16:22:11] <archivist> not a real lock up
[16:22:13] <cradek> yes but those don't crash into things so you might not notice them as much :-)
[16:22:21] <cradek> right it's not a lock up, it's a delayed response
[16:22:22] <ssi> define "reasonable ram"
[16:22:37] <malcom2073> Sorry, when I said lock up I should've said temporaryh freeze
[16:22:48] <cradek> enough to not swap. I've used 640-768 MB with success
[16:22:50] <malcom2073> momentary lack of response
[16:23:07] <cradek> today I'd suggest 2GB because it's hard to find less
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[16:23:31] <cradek> you can use top to figure out how much of your ram and swap are being used
[16:23:53] <cradek> running other apps at the same time as linuxcnc affect this greatly, of course
[16:24:03] <malcom2073> 256mb used, 256mb fre, axis is only using 45mb
[16:24:04] <cradek> a web browser will take more ram than all of linuxcnc
[16:24:21] <ssi> malcom2073: that's about exachtly what it looks like on my bbb running axis at the moment
[16:24:25] <cradek> how much swap in use?
[16:24:25] <archivist> and using beagle type boards where one cannot get enough ram
[16:24:33] <malcom2073> cradek: no swap enabled
[16:24:45] <cradek> ouch
[16:24:55] <ssi> swapping to flash isn't a great idea :P
[16:24:57] <malcom2073> So if I'm running out of ram, I'd see a kernel panic :P
[16:25:02] <cradek> low memory conditions will do bad things then
[16:25:11] <cradek> no, it will probably kill random processes
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[16:25:18] <malcom2073> But it's not running low on ram
[16:25:23] <archivist> I wonder if it is a python speed problem on slow processors
[16:25:25] <cradek> not right this second, no
[16:25:41] <cradek> archivist: software opengl rendering is going to eat cpu much more than python
[16:25:42] <malcom2073> cradek: Some may, this one panics.
[16:25:48] <malcom2073> cradek: It just happened
[16:25:51] <malcom2073> and I'm not running low on ram
[16:25:53] <malcom2073> 5 minutes ago
[16:25:55] <cradek> what did?
[16:26:00] <ssi> is it possible to disable the opengl preview in axis?
[16:26:02] <malcom2073> The lock up/freeze/delay
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[16:26:25] <cradek> please describe what you saw
[16:27:05] <malcom2073> cradek: I hit page up to make my Z go up, it started going up. I let go of page up to make it stop, it continued going up. I hit the escape key, it continued and hit the end hard. During this time there is no discernable cpu or memory usage spike
[16:27:17] <malcom2073> in continuous jog mode
[16:27:18] <cradek> don't you even have soft limits set?
[16:27:28] <malcom2073> cradek: I do, I set them wrong, they're 10mm past the end :/
[16:27:32] <malcom2073> need to go back and reset them
[16:27:36] <cradek> heh I recommend fixing that
[16:27:49] <malcom2073> of course, but that does not stop the issue. And during homing, it ignores soft limits
[16:28:13] <cradek> what I'm trying to discern is whether it's simply a gui response issue, or deeper
[16:28:27] <malcom2073> Right, I think it may be a GUI response issue, I'm hoping
[16:28:33] <malcom2073> I've done 5-6 hour gcode runs without issue
[16:28:43] <malcom2073> this happens about once every 10-15 jog commands
[16:28:44] <cradek> during homing what the gui is doing doesn't matter
[16:28:52] <malcom2073> homing I mean manual homing
[16:28:58] <malcom2073> using jog to put the machine at 0
[16:29:08] <cradek> oh so you mean jogging before you're homed
[16:29:13] <malcom2073> Right, sorry.
[16:29:27] <ssi> guess it's time to get your soft and hard limits set up!
[16:29:31] <ssi> let it auto home
[16:29:38] <malcom2073> ssi: it's on my todo list :/
[16:29:40] <malcom2073> but not at the top heh
[16:29:41] <cradek> I wonder what is the cpu doing when it stops running AXIS
[16:29:46] <jdh> wasn't there an axis/tk/wtf bug that did something like that if focus was in the dropdown box?
[16:29:58] <malcom2073> cradek: when you say stops, you mean when the "pause" happens?
[16:30:00] <jdh> (for distance/continuous)
[16:30:10] <cradek> does the rest of the desktop update? pointer move? "top" running in your terminal continues to update?
[16:30:20] <cradek> yes
[16:30:20] <archivist> I find the jogging feels worse when the box has been on a while (long job)
[16:30:39] <malcom2073> cradek: I THINK top continued to run and update, but I'm not 100% certain. I'll try to keep an eye out next time, but I do know i've never had the interface itself freeze under normal operation
[16:30:44] <malcom2073> so if it is freezing here, it's a deeper issue
[16:31:06] <cradek> yes when the backplot history on the screen is big, the X server is doing more opengl software rendering of the backplot display list
[16:31:15] <cradek> you can poke the clear button in AXIS to empty it
[16:31:18] <malcom2073> interestingly enough, every time it happens, it goes until it hits the soft stop (10mm past the end) and then works fine afterwards
[16:31:23] <malcom2073> It never recovers before it hits rthe end
[16:31:33] <malcom2073> I have no backplot
[16:31:38] <malcom2073> it's disabled
[16:32:03] <malcom2073> live plot, progra, etc are disabled. All it shows are ofsets, velocity, and velocity
[16:32:04] <cradek> I wonder if it's a keyboard/usb/bios problem with key releases not being sent correctly
[16:32:21] <malcom2073> Possibly, but it's only an issue in axis, and only when jogging
[16:32:28] <malcom2073> I've done other things while the program is running without issue
[16:32:32] <cradek> well key releases aren't used much in normal apps
[16:32:33] <JT-Shop> malcom2073, I've seen what you describe on low memory/slow processors when there is not enough left to poll the keyboard
[16:33:00] <malcom2073> JT-Shop: next time it happens, I'll try to alt-tab during it happening, see if A: the system is updating, and B: the keyboard is responsive to the OS itself
[16:33:09] <cradek> yes that is a good idea
[16:33:15] <ssi> malcom2073: how did you disable the plots?
[16:33:25] <cradek> sounds like you can reproduce it by jogging 20 times
[16:34:47] <malcom2073> ssi: view menu
[16:34:58] <malcom2073> Of course, now it's not doign it :/
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[16:35:10] <archivist> I have seen very slow changes of focus from axis-gedit-the calculator too so probably is what's left for the foreground
[16:35:10] <ssi> haha
[16:35:14] <malcom2073> I'm trying ti with the X/Y, since their limits work.
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[16:39:03] <JT-Shop> malcom2073, does your Z have a faster step rate than XY?
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[16:39:46] * JT-Shop goes back to the automotive electric shop to look for the alternator spacer
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[16:40:04] <malcom2073> JT-Shop: nope, same as X
[16:40:08] <malcom2073> so I think I've gotten ti to happen
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[16:40:14] <malcom2073> when I alt-tab away from axis, it stops
[16:40:19] <malcom2073> even though escape inside axis does not stop it
[16:40:27] <ssi> are you using software stepgen, or pruss, or what
[16:40:31] <malcom2073> PRU
[16:40:50] -!- IchGuckLive [IchGuckLive!~chatzilla@95-89-98-199-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #linuxcnc
[16:40:54] <IchGuckLive> hi all B)
[16:43:43] <IchGuckLive> K6MLE-CNC: how is it
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[16:46:19] <IchGuckLive> oh i will come back later today need to go get BBQ fod for tonigts big party ;-)
[16:46:24] <malcom2073> That could possibly jive with the fact that axis does use an unreasonable amount of CPU (Even for an embedded board), if the key-down/key-up signals are getting lost somewhere in there, alt-tabbing would make it lose focus and force a stop on the machine, whereas escape does not
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[16:48:02] <archivist> I assume that only worked because the queue was sent to axis before the focus change
[16:48:50] <malcom2073> I would assume that axis would stop jog automatically upon losing focus, even if it never recieves a key-up event, if not, then it doesn't explain that behavior
[16:49:05] <malcom2073> Could be the empty opengl widnow is still causing the massive cpu usage. I should see about disablign that entirely
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[16:58:30] <malcom2073> tkemc seems a lot more responsive in general, and I can't get it to fail
[16:59:20] <cradek> I think AXIS still maintains the opengl display lists even if they're not shown -- you can tell this because if you turn them on, they show up.
[16:59:23] <cradek> bbl...
[16:59:54] <malcom2073> Yeah
[17:00:17] <archivist> does tkemc have the opengl window?
[17:00:53] <malcom2073> It has a backplot window, but it's hidden by default, not sure if it's opengl
[17:01:32] <malcom2073> It uses way less cpu sitting there though, so I'd guess that's it
[17:02:05] <archivist> I do know python has some speed problems
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[17:11:21] <archivist> eg run time type testing
[17:12:14] <pcw_home> should be running a a tagged architecture CPU :-)
[17:12:35] <archivist> I imagine there is a lot of type testing going in in axis
[17:12:58] <pcw_home> testing, now way, its a hardware interrupt
[17:13:35] * pcw_home look sadly at his Symbolics 3645
[17:13:38] <archivist> this is the plain language dong something like a+b
[17:15:11] <archivist> I am getting this from the python site see java paragraph https://www.python.org/doc/essays/comparisons/
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[17:49:23] <IchGuckLive> hi all Back ;-)
[17:51:22] <IchGuckLive> malcom2073: i got this problem when the Linuxcnc has nott clearly shut down and has been reopend so a comp is running twice
[17:51:44] <malcom2073> IchGuckLive: I make sure it's shut down every time, tkemc doesn't seem to have the issue though, so I'm gonna start using that heh
[17:52:14] <IchGuckLive> in the Universety Windows people ofen use the X on the top gui to shout down the Axis gui that brings in this error you explaining
[17:53:36] <IchGuckLive> the axis gui needs clearly to be shut down from menue my experiance
[17:53:55] <malcom2073> Oh, both the X and shutting it down from the menu do identical things as far as I can tell from the command line
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[17:54:16] <malcom2073> but who knows, point being even on first start it has the issue, so it's not a bad shutdown issue
[17:54:42] <IchGuckLive> ok
[17:55:18] <IchGuckLive> tkemc is als best for simultain Mashine 3D view option
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[18:24:29] <IchGuckLive> ok im off BYE may the best soccer team win tonight
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[18:25:38] * JT-Shop can't find the charge cable nut now and it is not a standard nut... maybe it's something silly like mm
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[18:40:37] <jdh> JT: make one.
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[18:50:59] <JT-Shop> easier to dig through my metric odds and ends and find one
[18:53:22] <rob_h> thoes pestie Metric guys again hay
[18:54:42] <JT-Shop> hey Rob
[18:54:59] <rob_h> hi jt
[18:55:17] <rob_h> hows things over there
[18:57:01] <JT-Shop> not bad, weather has been weird this year
[18:57:23] <JT-Shop> as usual I have way too many irons in the fire, how about you?
[18:57:34] <rob_h> we not realy had a summer here had afew hot days but just back to muggy days soon after
[18:57:49] <rob_h> oh im just figuring out where to put this next machine that is coming lol
[18:57:58] <rob_h> i was sure we could fit 1 more in some where
[18:58:35] <rob_h> it always seems no matter how many machins you have you always wish you had that other type of machine to hand !!
[18:59:47] <archivist> stack them
[19:00:55] <rob_h> put the barfeeds out side might work
[19:01:06] <archivist> or what the boss did at the last place, he dug under the floor and made a basement under the tin church
[19:01:34] <JT-Shop> I had to open the garage door when I loaded the CHNC when it was in the garage
[19:01:52] <Tom_itx> JT-Shop did you get your alternator ironed out?
[19:02:01] <rob_h> got centerless grinder coming so no more waiting for bar stock etc
[19:02:07] <Tom_itx> or is it still on fire...
[19:02:10] <JT-Shop> yea, I had the shop convert it to 12v
[19:02:18] <archivist> you can see the added concrete to the left http://www.archivist.info/cnc/works2008/P1010200.JPG
[19:02:21] <JT-Shop> nice
[19:02:51] <JT-Shop> Tom_itx, btw it was a 4 wire alternator not a 3 wire
[19:03:10] <Tom_itx> i got your note yesterday
[19:03:10] <JT-Shop> it has tach feedback on the extra wire
[19:03:14] <Tom_itx> yeah
[19:03:54] <JT-Shop> just wiring up the sense wire now as I had it backwards the other day and that explains why the dead battery
[19:03:57] <Tom_itx> man... it's 5 after naptime
[19:04:13] * JT-Shop didn't get one today
[19:05:44] <rob_h> sleep whats tht
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[19:10:19] <jdh> any chinese 6040 users around? What do you put between your work and the table?
[19:10:48] <Jymmm> 3/4 MDF
[19:11:03] <jdh> MDF or particleboard
[19:11:12] <Jymmm> MDF
[19:11:31] <jdh> that's what I use now. I was hoping for somethign better.
[19:11:32] <Jymmm> It has an even and consistant surface
[19:11:43] <Jymmm> Better how?
[19:11:45] <jdh> err.. particleboard
[19:11:57] <Jymmm> which do you use now?
[19:12:29] <Jymmm> jdh: ^^^^^^^^^^
[19:12:51] <jdh> 3/4" particleboard.
[19:13:00] <jdh> which for some reason, I kept thinking of as MDF
[19:13:10] <Jymmm> Yeah, forget partical board completely
[19:13:13] <jdh> but, MDF sucks and delaminates
[19:13:18] <jdh> no, I like the particleboard
[19:13:24] <jdh> it has a nice flat surface
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[19:13:43] <jdh> holds screws ok
[19:13:50] <Jymmm> MDF doesn't delaminate, there's nothing to delaminate
[19:14:06] <jdh> ok, it flakes
[19:14:24] <Jymmm> No, there is no flakes either
[19:14:39] <Jymmm> Cant get it wet, that's for sure
[19:14:50] <Jymmm> but it's a sacraficial top
[19:15:20] <Jymmm> MDf can even be tapped and will hold a thread
[19:15:32] <jdh> I'll get some of that also
[19:15:46] <Jymmm> Not that I would do that for mounting stuff on
[19:15:59] <Jymmm> Do you mean melaine?
[19:16:04] <Jymmm> melamine?
[19:16:05] <jdh> I screw stuff down to particleboard all teh time
[19:16:08] <jdh> no
[19:16:30] <jdh> damp MDF swells and flakes.
[19:16:41] <Jymmm> drywall screws?
[19:17:04] <jdh> no, usually just panhead screws
[19:17:07] <Jymmm> Just dont get it wet
[19:17:12] <jdh> or whatever I have laying around
[19:17:40] <Jymmm> So your going to swiss cheese it basically?
[19:18:00] <jdh> I do for a while, then I replace it
[19:18:26] <Jymmm> Why not just get clamp bars for it instead?
[19:18:42] <jdh> most of what I cut is outer profiles
[19:19:07] <jdh> i clamp the outside, cut any inside features or holes, then screw down the inside
[19:19:38] <Jymmm> You dont use bridges?
[19:19:53] <jdh> not if I have something on teh inside I can screw through
[19:20:09] <jdh> I've never had a cleaned up bridge look as good as not having one.
[19:20:19] <Jymmm> k
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[19:22:02] <jdh> http://tinyurl.com/nwdvsxj
[19:22:18] <jdh> that was my old one. It had many deficiencies, but was still useful
[19:22:53] <Jymmm> I dont do short url's, sorry
[19:23:00] <Loetmichel> jdh: nice one, completely out of MDF?
[19:23:20] <ssi> http://i.imgur.com/VKMCtzF.jpg
[19:23:26] <jdh> Loetmichel: the red is HDPE
[19:23:45] <Loetmichel> ah, ok
[19:23:59] <Loetmichel> better than MDF... not by far but better
[19:24:08] <Loetmichel> my first one was made of acrylics
[19:24:12] <jdh> other than teh flex, it is fine.
[19:24:22] <jdh> even with the flex, it is fine for what it is.
[19:24:29] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=2859
[19:24:40] <Loetmichel> ... MANY years ago;-)
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[19:25:34] <jdh> Jymmm: are you afraid you will get g0ated?
[19:26:08] <jdh> I did not see a port on my VFD for rs485
[19:26:12] <Jymmm> I dont do blind urls, period.
[19:26:39] <jdh> all urls are blind for the most part.
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[19:28:08] <ssi> baw
[19:28:12] <ssi> I drew a part wrong, and cut ten of them
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[19:29:34] <ssi> good news is, the plasma table is cutting pretty well :P
[19:31:11] <Loetmichel> jdh: inside, on the screw terminals
[19:32:09] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=12509&g2_imageViewsIndex=1 <- on mine on the input side
[19:32:25] <kfoltman> Loetmichel: I discovered what *not* to do when milling high impact polystyrene
[19:32:29] <Loetmichel> the three terminals "RS+, RS- and GND"
[19:32:45] <Loetmichel> kfoltman: alcohol cooling?
[19:32:46] <Loetmichel> ;-)
[19:32:59] <Loetmichel> or standing nearby
[19:33:02] <kfoltman> Loetmichel: high rpm
[19:33:06] <Loetmichel> and using compressed air ;-)
[19:33:16] <kfoltman> Loetmichel: now one of my endmills is nicely covered in melted polystyrene ;)
[19:33:31] <Loetmichel> kfoltman: PU resin: http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=5077
[19:33:45] <Loetmichel> kfoltman: then the mill bit was dull
[19:33:47] <kfoltman> Loetmichel: oh crap
[19:33:56] <kfoltman> Loetmichel: it was a new bit
[19:34:09] <Loetmichel> more F, less S ;-)
[19:34:31] <kfoltman> Loetmichel: the first hole went fine, but +1 hole = -10pts quality ;)
[19:34:51] <Loetmichel> kfoltman: More speed, less rpm.
[19:35:08] <kfoltman> yeah, will have to do that... after I strip the PS residue from the bit ;)
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[19:35:17] <Loetmichel> and compressed air colling or soap water mist if possible
[19:35:19] <kfoltman> it's probably unusable anyway
[19:35:24] <Loetmichel> the mill bit gets WAY to hot
[19:35:38] <Loetmichel> kfoltman: why shluld it?
[19:35:40] <Loetmichel> should
[19:35:44] <Loetmichel> is it TC?
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[19:35:46] <kfoltman> yes
[19:35:46] <Loetmichel> or HSS?
[19:35:48] <kfoltman> TC
[19:36:01] <kfoltman> I might use hot air to melt the PS and try to strip it
[19:36:07] <Loetmichel> then: just heat it up with a bunsen burner until the PS is burnt off
[19:36:28] <Loetmichel> i have millet wit red glowing TC bits... they can take some "heat" ;-)
[19:36:31] <Loetmichel> without getting dull
[19:36:42] <Loetmichel> as long as you dont "shock cool" them
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[20:13:01] <jdh> Loetmichel: did your vfd have the transceiver chip? I've read that they ship some without.
[20:13:22] <Loetmichel> i never checked
[20:13:33] <Loetmichel> but it has the screw terminals
[20:13:54] <Loetmichel> IIRC the ones without the chip dont have the terminals polulated
[20:14:34] <jdh> I'd like to record the current settings before I screw with it. Mine looks different though.
[20:15:33] <jdh> mine is branded "nowforever"
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[20:35:46] <Loetmichel> harhar, i think the brasilians will have a "not so happy" homecoming tomorrow... :-)
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[20:37:15] <Loetmichel> my wife just jelled " oh mein gott wie peinlich" from the bedroom where our big TV is... ;-)
[20:38:02] <Loetmichel> (oh my god, how emarrasing (for the brasillians))
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[21:04:25] <Deejay> gn8
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[21:20:12] <MrSunshine> hmm got some problems with my pendant .. got stuff bound to =0 button .. to zero an axis (touch off .. or atleast i thought that was what i was doing) but getting errors on Z all the time saying that iw ill be outside of the Z move, but then i go to the computer, press "touch off" in axis and enter 0 and it works fine ..
[21:20:17] <MrSunshine> what am i doing wrong? :/
[21:21:40] <MrSunshine> and im sorry, do not have the files atm either .. dammit
[21:21:51] <MrSunshine> gonna ask again tomorrow insted when i got the config that im using :P
[21:22:34] <JT-Shop> programming error
[21:22:56] <MrSunshine> yeah i guess =) but question is what im doing wrong .. but like i said .. gonna check tomorrow when i have the configs insted =)
[21:23:01] <MrSunshine> no use sitting here guessing =)
[21:29:37] <MrSunshine> but just one question, what is the coordinate system a touch off should set ?
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[21:34:38] <MrSunshine> is it G10 L2 X0 or is it G10 L20 X0 ?
[21:34:53] <MrSunshine> insert a P1 there also :P
[21:35:54] <MrSunshine> or is it P0 ? ... ffs =)
[21:36:14] <MrSunshine> nah im gonna stop thinking about this today ... like i said. . need the freakin config files :P
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[21:41:58] <JT-Shop> Depends on what your touching off
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[21:42:34] <JT-Shop> I use this to touch off to material with a 3/8" dowel MDI_COMMAND = G10 L20 P1 Z0.375
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[21:44:40] <MrSunshine> JT-Shop, hmm ok .. ive noticed that my automatic touch off routine sets the "wrong" system .. so the plotting on the screen is above the toolpath on the screen .. but if i manualy touch off on the computer it doesnt do that
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[22:01:11] <kfoltman> Loetmichel: 1mm endmill at minimum speed and maximum feed, it got covered in goo after the first hole
[22:01:40] <Loetmichel> this is EPS?
[22:01:46] <kfoltman> HIPS
[22:01:56] <kfoltman> not sure if it has alternative names
[22:02:04] <kfoltman> it's the thing that is used to make toys etc.
[22:02:10] <kfoltman> soft/flexible
[22:02:24] <kfoltman> maybe lower layer height would help?
[22:02:27] <Loetmichel> can you use a pump spray can with soap water in it?
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[22:02:41] <kfoltman> Loetmichel: I need to seal my MDF first ;)
[22:02:56] <Loetmichel> compressed air aviable?
[22:03:09] <kfoltman> I would 'cool' it with a vacuum cleaner I suppose
[22:03:17] <kfoltman> by that might be not efficient enough
[22:03:20] <kfoltman> + bad idea at 11pm
[22:03:28] <Loetmichel> not enoigh volume and speed
[22:04:03] <Loetmichel> for an 1mm mill bit you need to get at least 2 bar and a 1mm nozzle DIRECTLY to the mill bit
[22:04:17] <Loetmichel> so it blows away any heat AND the swarf
[22:04:25] <Loetmichel> how deep are you milling now?
[22:06:13] <kfoltman> 1.5mm?
[22:06:17] <Loetmichel> ouch
[22:06:21] <Loetmichel> try 0,5
[22:06:42] <Loetmichel> which bit?
[22:06:58] <Loetmichel> 2 flute, one flute, spiral or diamond?
[22:07:00] <kfoltman> a Chinese 2 flute endmill, not sure what type
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[22:07:28] <Loetmichel> ok, that should work
[22:07:37] <Loetmichel> try 3 planes 0,5mm each
[22:07:49] <Loetmichel> and same parameters: low rpm, high feed
[22:08:03] <Loetmichel> can you make a video?
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[22:08:19] <kfoltman> probably, definitely not today
[22:09:21] <Loetmichel> exact rpm and feedrate?
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[22:11:57] <kfoltman> rpm about 5000
[22:12:06] <kfoltman> feedrate... I set 400, but let me check what's the maximum for the axis
[22:12:29] <kfoltman> yep 400
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[22:13:48] <Loetmichel> 400?
[22:13:51] <kfoltman> mm/min
[22:13:57] <Loetmichel> ouch
[22:14:02] <Loetmichel> no wonder it clogs
[22:14:05] <kfoltman> too much? too little?
[22:14:15] <Loetmichel> i would set about 2000
[22:14:19] <kfoltman> hahaha
[22:14:21] <kfoltman> 2000!
[22:14:27] <kfoltman> not with this machine :D
[22:14:43] <Loetmichel> did you see the video earlier of my co-workers machine?
[22:14:48] <Loetmichel> that was F15000
[22:14:49] <Loetmichel> ;)
[22:15:18] <kfoltman> I have the 24V power supply now
[22:15:33] <kfoltman> need to get some fuses, some cables and a box, and I'll be able to up the feed somewhat
[22:15:48] <Loetmichel> wou'll either have to find a way to reduce rpm about 5 times or add "a bit" of feedrate
[22:16:04] <Loetmichel> like 3 times at least
[22:16:15] <kfoltman> what range do those water-cooled spindles have
[22:16:21] <Loetmichel> what leadscrews does your machine have?
[22:16:36] <Loetmichel> i can get mine down to 30Hz
[22:16:38] <kfoltman> RM1605
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[22:17:06] <kfoltman> 16mm, 5mm/360deg
[22:17:19] <Loetmichel> menaing 1700 rom
[22:17:29] <Loetmichel> ballscrews?
[22:17:32] <kfoltman> yes
[22:17:37] <Loetmichel> why so slow then?
[22:17:43] <kfoltman> really crap PSU
[22:18:07] <Loetmichel> even my small machine can run F1800
[22:18:27] <Loetmichel> and with tr10*3 and nylon nuts, no ballscrews
[22:18:51] <kfoltman> you see... the current power supply on my machine is... 500mA
[22:19:07] <Loetmichel> ouch
[22:19:15] <Loetmichel> do you have a photo?
[22:19:19] <kfoltman> I have a 24V 5A (?) brick already, but have to connect it safely
[22:19:21] <Loetmichel> of the machine
[22:19:31] <kfoltman> let me dig it out
[22:19:50] <kfoltman> http://i.imgur.com/Jbb21hk.jpg
[22:20:29] <Loetmichel> nice
[22:20:31] <Loetmichel> hmmm
[22:20:38] <kfoltman> the motors, the rails and the screws can probably handle much more
[22:20:49] <Loetmichel> with a 24V psu you should be able to get about F3000 out of it
[22:20:52] <Loetmichel> at least
[22:21:22] <kfoltman> that should help :)
[22:21:56] <kfoltman> I'll go to maplin tomorrow and get some fuses and mains cable, and then we'll see
[22:22:21] <kfoltman> not too enthusiastic about electrocuting myself or burning the house down due to shoddy wiring
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[22:28:23] <kfoltman> another thing is that if I have a beefy PSU, I'll *really* need those endstop switches :)
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[23:33:32] <alexchally> so I have been doing some mucking around on a prototrak EMX mill that I am looking to convert to EMC. I have 'scoped out all the pins and everything was normal except the signal used to drive the servo. Instead of a +-10v signal or whatever, it uses a 1.6kHz square wave, and the duty cycle of the square wave determines how hard the motor drivers push the servo.
[23:33:49] <alexchally> now I am looking for the proper mesa card setup to deal with that
[23:34:32] <alexchally> my original plan was a Mesa 5I23, a 7i33TA and a 7i37TA
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[23:35:04] <cradek> what's the amplitude of the square wave?
[23:35:14] <alexchally> but now I am wondering if the 7i33TA will be able to output the PWM signal necessary, as it is designed to output an analogue voltage instead
[23:35:17] <alexchally> 2v peak to peak
[23:35:26] <cradek> generating 1.6kHz is no problem
[23:35:39] <cradek> no you don't want a 7i33, that's a dac
[23:35:50] <cradek> look at man hostmot2, pwmgen section
[23:36:11] <cradek> 2v p-p is kind of weird...
[23:36:28] <alexchally> it is a kind of weird machine :)
[23:36:49] <cradek> is it pwm + direction on another digital input?
[23:37:29] <alexchally> no, the direction is done by duty cycle
[23:37:34] <alexchally> 50% is 0 movement
[23:37:39] <cradek> bleh
[23:37:45] <alexchally> less than 50% moves in the negative direction, greater than 50% moves in the positive direction
[23:37:49] <cradek> well that's ok, you can offset it
[23:38:23] <cradek> do you know if it's a velocity or torque command?
[23:38:55] <alexchally> not sure
[23:38:58] <PCW> you could use the 3pwmgen 50% =0 is default for it
[23:39:04] <ssi> do the motors have tachometers on them?
[23:39:17] <alexchally> no tachs, just HEDS-9000 encoders
[23:39:40] <ssi> do the drives have the encoder signals?
[23:39:42] <alexchally> note that I am reverse engineering this, its all black box to me
[23:39:46] <alexchally> no, the drives do not
[23:39:52] <ssi> then it's probably a torque command
[23:39:55] <alexchally> encoder signals are handled by the controll
[23:39:57] <alexchally> k
[23:40:13] <alexchally> I am pretty sure the voltage is proportional to the duty cycle
[23:40:13] <cradek> the drive has no kind of feedback from the motors at all?
[23:40:13] <PCW> 1.6 KHz sounds pretty screechy if its direct Hbridge drive
[23:40:15] <ssi> velocity mode drives would need some way of closing the velocity loop
[23:40:30] <ssi> cradek: current feedback probably :)
[23:41:06] <alexchally> the H bridge is not being driven at 1.6kHz, that is just the carrier frequency for the servo command
[23:41:26] <PCW> OK
[23:42:02] <PCW> easy enough to generate that (is it differential?)
[23:42:36] <alexchally> I think its differential. there are two pins with the same signal, but I have not busted out a second set of scope probes to compare them yet
[23:43:11] <PCW> yeah differential makes sense
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[23:43:25] <alexchally> correction on something I said earlier, it looks like *something* is feeding back directly to the driver, there is a 5 pin header of some kind, and it snakes up into the servo driver
[23:43:44] <PCW> Halls?
[23:43:56] <PCW> (assuming brushless)
[23:44:02] <alexchally> so in that case would I only need to have the 5I23 and the 7i37?
[23:44:07] <alexchally> brushed.
[23:44:58] <PCW> differential encoders?
[23:44:59] <alexchally> and with the 7i37, can I read in the encoders? I was originally planning on handeling that with the 7i33
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[23:45:29] <alexchally> I think the encoder is differential, there are 4 channels out, but again, I have not take a second set of scope probes to it
[23:46:29] <PCW> so probably you want a differential I/O daughtercard (say a 7I52S )
[23:47:42] <PCW> that has differential encoder inputs and differential outputs for your PWM
[23:47:46] <alexchally> yeahhhh
[23:47:49] <alexchally> thats about perfect I think
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[23:48:02] <alexchally> and that will probably allow me to integrate the glass scale on the Z axis later
[23:48:22] <PCW> 6 encoder input and 6 pairs of outputs
[23:48:30] <alexchally> wait, 6 encoder channels= 6 encoders, 2 phases, with differential output?
[23:48:48] <alexchally> that is, 24 total encoder inputs?
[23:49:06] <PCW> 18 (6X3)
[23:50:08] <alexchally> 6x3? that... does not make sense to me? Don't you have 4 signals for each encoder?
[23:50:12] <PCW> (36 encoder signals though because of the differential inputs)
[23:50:45] <PCW> 6 per encoder ( a,/a b,/b z,/z )
[23:51:15] <alexchally> is Z the pulse for each rev? \
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[23:51:25] <PCW> yes (index)
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[23:51:57] <alexchally> ok. I did not find an index output when I was probing. is that going to be a problem? and if it is, can I just set up my own index with a hall effect sensor?
[23:52:43] <PCW> if you already have home switches you can use them
[23:52:55] <alexchally> I don't, but I would love to add some
[23:53:49] <PCW> homing to index makes homing more repeatable though (but your encoder may not have a index channel)
[23:55:09] <alexchally> eh, if I need to home to .0001 I will mill a pocket in my ways and indicate off that ;)
[23:55:22] <alexchally> note: I ain't gonna do that :D
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[23:58:24] <PCW> Getting the drive enables to work properly is rather important since you will have full PWM drive at powerup and at watchdog bite
[23:58:26] <PCW>