#linuxcnc | Logs for 2014-06-24

[00:00:04] <zeeshan|3> i really want one that small
[00:00:30] <LeelooMinai> You mean those ones, right? https://www.flickr.com/photos/100017731@N03/14239031355/
[00:00:53] <LeelooMinai> I use them to hold oscilloscope probes - they are pretty nice as you can set them with just one knob
[00:00:54] <zeeshan|3> wood router works great with the approrpiate cutter for aluminum
[00:00:59] <zeeshan|3> yes those ones
[00:01:29] <LeelooMinai> I just used carbide routing bits - I decided that if they explode it will be small loss:)
[00:01:57] <zeeshan|3> haha
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[00:02:02] <LeelooMinai> I guess building the first machine like that is the most problematic
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[00:02:13] <LeelooMinai> Later it can be used to build other things
[00:02:26] <zeeshan|3> your machine looks beefy enough
[00:02:28] <LeelooMinai> Or other machines mybe - more specialized
[00:02:29] <zeeshan|3> to cut steel
[00:03:14] <LeelooMinai> I will try to stick to alu though - steel is to hard core for a hobbyist:)
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[00:47:45] <LeelooMinai> any comments on difference between those couplers: http://www.aliexpress.com/item/3pcs-lot-8mm-x-10mm-aluminium-flexible-shaft-coupling-Plum-coupling-coupler-D20-L30-MB0013-3/729991382.html
[00:47:55] <LeelooMinai> and the ones that have helical cut in them?
[00:54:27] <jdh> those tend to have some lash in them
[00:58:16] <LeelooMinai> Hmm... But they seem to be pretty common too and priced a bit higher
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[01:03:05] <jdh> the lovejoy style has the lash
[01:03:41] <jdh> the helical ones tend to snap, but sometimes they need to. Rarely opportune though.
[01:03:48] <jdh> I like Oldham style couplers.
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[01:04:30] <LeelooMinai> lovjoy is the one with "spider"?
[01:04:37] <jdh> yes
[01:05:07] <LeelooMinai> Why would people use them then if they have backslash?
[01:06:15] <jdh> I think lovejoy(tm) makes some that claim zero backlash
[01:06:59] <jdh> http://www.lovejoy-inc.com/content.aspx?id=544
[01:07:14] <jdh> Jaw designs usually are not recommended for engine-driven or frequent start-stop-reversing applications because of backlash
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[01:11:44] <LeelooMinai> So for cnc they are probably not a good choice? Helical ones should be better?
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[01:12:41] <jdh> that is my opinion. I would probably get oldhams thouhg
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[01:13:08] <LeelooMinai> they don't seem to have cheap odlham-style ones on aliexpress
[01:14:07] <jdh> I don't see any
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[01:16:03] <jdh> guess it depends on your definition of cheap though.
[01:16:34] <LeelooMinai> I am a poor hobbyist - cheap means <$5 per one
[01:16:59] <jdh> bah... you have tons of nifty toys
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[01:17:21] <LeelooMinai> None of them are expensive - I have to save to buy anything nice.
[01:17:37] <jdh> me too
[01:18:00] <LeelooMinai> OR find deals - for example the floor drill press I bought from a guy that bought two by accident
[01:19:16] <jdh> how do you accidentally buy two. and why not just return one.
[01:19:40] <LeelooMinai> Don't ask me - he sold it to me new in the box for $250
[01:24:32] <zeeshan|3> LeelooMinai: what side do you need
[01:24:37] <zeeshan|3> i have a lot of couplers ill never use
[01:24:49] <zeeshan|3> the aluminum slit ones are a piece of shit for my application
[01:24:52] <LeelooMinai> zeeshan|3: I already ordered helical ones
[01:24:58] <zeeshan|3> cause i have 1200oz-in steppers
[01:25:00] <LeelooMinai> I needed 8 to 10mm
[01:25:07] <zeeshan|3> oh
[01:25:11] <zeeshan|3> mine are 16mm to 1/2"
[01:25:14] <zeeshan|3> and 10mm to 1/2"
[01:25:41] <LeelooMinai> 1200 sounds large, I think mine are 450 or so
[01:26:01] <zeeshan|3> cant have too much torque when turning and milling
[01:26:01] <zeeshan|3> :P
[01:26:15] <zeeshan|3> i picked the motors based o nthe fact that i will be machining 4340
[01:26:25] <zeeshan|3> which requires a considerable amount of feed force
[01:26:28] <LeelooMinai> Well, I the ones I have are not exactly tiny - or so I thought
[01:26:41] <LeelooMinai> That's steel right?
[01:26:51] <zeeshan|3> chromoly steel, one of the hardest
[01:27:09] <LeelooMinai> I doubt I will go there (steel)
[01:27:28] <LeelooMinai> I bet all the cutters and other tools for it are expensive
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[01:27:59] <zeeshan|3> yea my tooling costs more than the machine itself
[01:28:09] <zeeshan|3> i thought people were joking about that back in the day
[01:29:04] <zeeshan|3> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oospKiICksY&list=UUy-Z-COl0WvPmSLXMOvtedg
[01:29:08] <zeeshan|3> i dunno if you saw this the other day
[01:29:17] <LeelooMinai> I have a KMC (?) big catalogoue and when I look inside the prices of some tools are pretty scary
[01:29:23] <zeeshan|3> kbc
[01:29:27] <zeeshan|3> but kbc is pretty expensive
[01:29:30] <LeelooMinai> Right, KBC
[01:29:45] <zeeshan|3> i buy from kijiji or ebay auctions
[01:29:46] <LeelooMinai> They have some cheap things too - under KBC brand mostly
[01:29:47] <zeeshan|3> or farm auctions
[01:29:56] <LeelooMinai> Probably get them from China
[01:30:03] <jdh> brass dildo cutting?
[01:30:08] <zeeshan|3> yea its unbranded, itll be chinese
[01:30:15] <zeeshan|3> but nothing wrong with chinese, when it comes to most things..
[01:30:18] <zeeshan|3> jdh yessir
[01:30:20] <LeelooMinai> I bought some - like a center punch set - was better than nothing
[01:30:20] <zeeshan|3> you wants?
[01:30:25] <jdh> except chinese steel
[01:30:33] <zeeshan|3> chinese steel is okay
[01:30:37] <zeeshan|3> as long as it's from taiwan
[01:30:57] <zeeshan|3> jdh i've been doing tests on 5052 made in china
[01:30:58] <jdh> that's not chinese. unless you ask the chinese
[01:31:00] <zeeshan|3> at my school lab
[01:31:09] <zeeshan|3> and comparing them to the 5052 made by "alcan"
[01:31:21] <LeelooMinai> I bought some cobalt drills from aliexpress - I used them for making the CNC - they seem to be fine
[01:31:38] <zeeshan|3> the best way i can describe it, is the chinese aluminum is not 5051
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[01:31:41] <zeeshan|3> (5052)
[01:31:50] <zeeshan|3> cause it has have the formability of the 5052 made by alcan
[01:31:51] <zeeshan|3> lol
[01:32:10] <zeeshan|3> LeelooMinai: why are you using cobalt bits for drilling into aluminum :P
[01:32:19] <jdh> I've bought chinese carbide and HSS endmills. I prefer used .us HSS over either.
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[01:32:42] <LeelooMinai> Well, I may have overkilled them a bit, but I also needed to make some holes in those steel angles
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[01:32:55] <zeeshan|3> how slow does your drill press go?
[01:33:05] <LeelooMinai> from 300
[01:33:18] <zeeshan|3> 300 rpm , hss steel will cut through steel like butter
[01:33:49] <LeelooMinai> Maybe, but those cobalt drills cut like through water for me:)
[01:34:35] <LeelooMinai> I used transmission fluid to keep them cool
[01:36:59] <zeeshan|3> ive been using this stuff:
[01:37:14] <zeeshan|3> http://www.princessauto.com/pal/en/Band-Saws/4-Litre-Cutting-Oil-Coolant/8034012.p
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[01:37:18] <LeelooMinai> Ok, I played with g codes, moving things around, just because it was fun and sounded weird
[01:37:19] <zeeshan|3> ive been trying to find a dealer for this though:
[01:37:31] <LeelooMinai> I am ready for next step
[01:37:51] <LeelooMinai> I used transmission fluid for tapping too
[01:37:55] <jdh> sharpie?
[01:38:01] <LeelooMinai> It's pretty cheap and I foudn a lot of it in my basement
[01:38:47] <LeelooMinai> No, I am thinking that since I have that nice Proxxon rotary tool, I should maybe make a bracket for it and attach it to the X-axis and to something light in wood drill some holes
[01:38:56] <LeelooMinai> Z-axis
[01:39:14] <zeeshan|3> http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41IxTgK7KYL._SY445_.jpg
[01:39:15] <zeeshan|3> that stuff
[01:39:20] <zeeshan|3> cant find a dealer for it lcoally =/
[01:39:39] <LeelooMinai> I have two of those: http://www.proxxon.com/us/micromot/38472.php?list
[01:39:45] <LeelooMinai> Because they send me two by accident
[01:39:58] <zeeshan|3> run dual cutters :D
[01:39:59] <LeelooMinai> One I use for pcbs, so I can attach one to the CNC for now I guess
[01:40:25] <LeelooMinai> They are so much nicer than Dremels
[01:40:34] <LeelooMinai> And not that expensive
[01:41:14] <LeelooMinai> Not for milling or anything, but for some small precision work they should do
[01:41:47] <zeeshan|3> if you look on kijiji
[01:41:49] <LeelooMinai> I don't even know what to use for milling. I saw some spindle kits on aliexpress, but they require VFD and in total this may be not cheap
[01:42:01] <zeeshan|3> http://www.busybeetools.com/product_images/35/5235/1613AEVS_zoom.jpg
[01:42:05] <zeeshan|3> you can find one of those for pretty cheap
[01:42:16] <zeeshan|3> ive personally put a 1/2" cutter in one of those
[01:42:20] <zeeshan|3> and cut through 6061 like butter
[01:42:36] <LeelooMinai> I saw some people using bosh, e... hmm... colt?
[01:42:47] <LeelooMinai> A tiny router
[01:43:01] <zeeshan|3> looks nice
[01:43:02] <LeelooMinai> Not sure if that would work well when milling alu
[01:43:25] <zeeshan|3> it uses a 1/4" collet apparently
[01:43:29] <zeeshan|3> so you'd be limited to small end mills
[01:44:28] <LeelooMinai> May be a good way to start though
[01:44:51] <LeelooMinai> Mill some alu case for one of my EE projects or something like that
[01:46:56] <LeelooMinai> I think some people also mentioned this one: http://toolmonger.com/2012/03/20/preview-makita-compact-router/
[01:47:04] <LeelooMinai> But it may be more expensive
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[01:49:01] <LeelooMinai> But for now I need to devise some method of attaching that proxxon - it has 20mm collar, but I don't have a drill or anything with exactly that diameter
[01:50:01] <zeeshan|3> you need to make a 20mm hole in a square block?
[01:50:22] <LeelooMinai> Yes, something like that and then cut a slot so I can clamp the proxxon
[01:50:30] <zeeshan|3> so then it doesnt really need t obe 20mm
[01:50:33] <zeeshan|3> you can make it a bit smaller
[01:51:07] <zeeshan|3> 25/32 or even 3/4"
[01:51:31] <LeelooMinai> All I have is a set of bi-metal saws - they work decent in alu though. I made holes for couplers/shafts with them
[01:52:18] <LeelooMinai> They clog fast, but with frequent cleaning, they make the hole, eventually:)
[01:52:44] <zeeshan|3> http://www.princessauto.com/pal/en/Drill-Presses/5-pc-Titanium-Coated-Silver-And-Deming-Drill-Bit-Set/3410934.p
[01:52:45] <LeelooMinai> So maybe I will try that tomorrow
[01:52:49] <zeeshan|3> this goes on sale for 20bux
[01:53:30] <LeelooMinai> Hmm, those are big drills
[01:53:35] <zeeshan|3> 3/4" hole saw will work too
[01:53:39] <zeeshan|3> your drill press can handle either one
[01:53:53] <zeeshan|3> the hole saw you'll just need to clamp it good :p
[01:54:23] <LeelooMinai> Right, I have nice clamps - some time ago I discovered that I want nice clamps
[01:54:50] <zeeshan|3> i scored a shit load of c-clamps off kijiji!
[01:54:57] <zeeshan|3> did i mention i love kijiji?
[01:54:57] <zeeshan|3> :p
[01:55:09] <LeelooMinai> My sister buys a lot from there
[01:55:29] <LeelooMinai> But it requires a lot of "hunting"
[01:55:38] <zeeshan|3> yes
[01:56:06] <LeelooMinai> I trey to find some electrical panel there for all the cnc electronics - drivers, bob, psu, etc.
[01:56:09] <LeelooMinai> try*
[01:56:29] <zeeshan|3> i go to a place in hamilton for my panels
[01:56:35] <zeeshan|3> electrical materials company
[01:56:52] <LeelooMinai> I think hammond makes boxes like that
[01:57:02] <LeelooMinai> But I don't really leave my room:)
[01:57:09] <LeelooMinai> I buy everything on internet
[01:57:11] <zeeshan|3> http://i.imgur.com/5I4eX43.jpg
[01:57:13] <zeeshan|3> 12x12"
[01:57:16] <zeeshan|3> for 18$
[01:57:19] <zeeshan|3> 6 deep
[01:57:31] <LeelooMinai> Right, that seems perfect
[01:57:41] <zeeshan|3> http://i.imgur.com/FSZbsdA.jpg
[01:57:44] <LeelooMinai> but it's not "normal" price, right?
[01:57:59] <zeeshan|3> 24x24x9" deep
[01:58:04] <LeelooMinai> You put the MB there too? :)
[01:58:06] <zeeshan|3> 50 something dollars
[01:58:10] <zeeshan|3> haha yea
[01:58:10] <LeelooMinai> I would be afraid of doint that
[01:58:16] <zeeshan|3> it's working out fine so far
[01:58:26] <LeelooMinai> I mean those drivers must generate tons of noise
[01:58:37] <zeeshan|3> the vfd for sure
[01:58:42] <zeeshan|3> not supre about the steppers
[01:58:49] <zeeshan|3> plus computers use digital signals
[01:58:56] <zeeshan|3> usually differential
[01:59:00] <Jymmm> zeeshan|3: wth i the orange thing?
[01:59:01] <LeelooMinai> And VFD, yes... I had this idea too originally, but decided it's too risky
[01:59:01] <zeeshan|3> so i figured , why not :P
[01:59:15] <LeelooMinai> So just used normal pc case
[01:59:22] <Jymmm> zeeshan|3: wth is the orange thing?
[01:59:27] <zeeshan|3> i left enough room around both the stepper driver and vfd to mount a farady cage
[01:59:28] <zeeshan|3> if need be!
[01:59:35] <zeeshan|3> Jymmm: lol heat sink
[01:59:39] <zeeshan|3> you dont like my heatsin?!?
[01:59:52] <LeelooMinai> Looks like a batterfly
[01:59:57] <zeeshan|3> http://images.anandtech.com/reviews/cooling/2007/zerotherm-btf90/btf90.jpg
[01:59:57] <LeelooMinai> butter*
[01:59:58] <zeeshan|3> !
[02:00:11] <Jymmm> zeeshan|3: Jut nfc what it was.
[02:00:14] <zeeshan|3> ps. 'fuck that heatsink'
[02:00:20] <LeelooMinai> Let me guess - it's calld that too:)
[02:00:21] <zeeshan|3> i sliced my hand on it hard the other day
[02:00:29] <zeeshan|3> the blades are FRIGGING sharp
[02:00:42] <Jymmm> zeeshan|3: so it's a lethal heatsink
[02:00:47] <zeeshan|3> yes
[02:01:12] <zeeshan|3> LeelooMinai: honestly man, if i were to have noise issues
[02:01:18] <zeeshan|3> i shouldve had them by now right?
[02:01:29] <zeeshan|3> i dont have my limit switches hooked up, and thats it so far
[02:01:45] <zeeshan|3> and ive tested the optical encoder signals for my spindle and theyre outputting a square wave into hal
[02:02:29] <LeelooMinai> I guess... the other reason I decided just to use PC case is that if I plug in a card there, like a mesa, it will be easier to mount it
[02:03:06] <zeeshan|3> i had it all in a pc case before
[02:03:10] <zeeshan|3> but the wiring got messy =/
[02:03:20] <zeeshan|3> (even the vfd was in there lol
[02:03:25] <LeelooMinai> No, I mean PC in the PC case, the drivers and bob in a separate one 0 that's my plan
[02:03:30] <zeeshan|3> oh
[02:04:09] <zeeshan|3> i always try to run my vfd to motor wires in armor cable
[02:04:15] <zeeshan|3> cause it acts like a shielded cable
[02:04:35] <Jymmm> ...that orange buterfly hetsinks can't penetrate
[02:04:41] <zeeshan|3> Jymmm: what!
[02:05:13] <LeelooMinai> Hmm, it's definitely obvious we live close - I have the same blue wire connectors, same lamp somewhere, and same mastercraft, e, grinder?
[02:05:26] <Jymmm> zeeshan|3: zeeshan|3: i always try to r cause it ...that orange buterfly hetsinks can't penetrate acts like a shielded cable un my vfd to motor wires in armor cable
[02:05:51] <zeeshan|3> that lamp and grinder are one assembly
[02:05:54] <zeeshan|3> mastercraft
[02:05:54] <Jymmm> zeeshan|3: just read the scrollback
[02:06:07] <LeelooMinai> A, lol, right - that's why it looked familiar
[02:06:30] <zeeshan|3> i get my stuff from everywhere man :P
[02:06:31] <Jymmm> zeeshan|3: just read the scrollback sequencially
[02:07:26] <zeeshan|3> Jymmm: lol
[02:07:40] <LeelooMinai> zeeshan|3: So that VFD is that for a spindle from China?
[02:07:49] <Jymmm> zeeshan|3: Did ya forget what you wrote already?!
[02:08:13] <zeeshan|3> Jymmm: it seems so :P
[02:08:27] <Jymmm> zeeshan|3: BTW... Ewwwwwwww on the black tape on the din connector
[02:08:49] <LeelooMinai> Isn't it heatshrink tube?
[02:09:05] <Jymmm> too shiny
[02:09:22] <Jymmm> and is covering the strain relief
[02:09:23] <zeeshan|3> electrical tape for the win!
[02:09:39] <LeelooMinai> A, there, outside
[02:09:47] <Jymmm> zeeshan|3: you should use heat shrink to build up the thickness so the strian relief works
[02:10:10] <zeeshan|3> LeelooMinai: you can see it here what the vfd is driving
[02:10:11] <zeeshan|3> http://i.imgur.com/zOgYeo2.jpg
[02:10:15] <zeeshan|3> 3hp 3 phase motor
[02:10:25] <zeeshan|3> Jymmm: im lazy man
[02:10:31] <zeeshan|3> my wiring is only professional for car stuff
[02:10:40] <zeeshan|3> when it comes to machinery, im a hackjob
[02:10:55] <Jymmm> zeeshan|3: That's even wose, as you're under a dash. This is bench top ZERO excuses
[02:10:57] <zeeshan|3> and btw, thats an old pic :)
[02:10:58] <XXCoder2> heys
[02:11:10] <Jymmm> XXCoder2: <----- Ho
[02:11:11] <zeeshan|3> hi
[02:11:23] <LeelooMinai> zeeshan|3: What is that whole motor thing even for?
[02:11:31] <zeeshan|3> turns the spindle on the lathe
[02:11:59] <Jymmm> LeelooMinai: If you ever see heatshrink that shiny, RUN! it's crap.
[02:12:16] <LeelooMinai> A, lathe - somehow that does not get me very excited - unless I was planning to make a chess set or something:)
[02:12:35] <zeeshan|3> majority of my machining is done on lathe
[02:12:39] <zeeshan|3> cause im working with shafts and gears
[02:12:46] <zeeshan|3> i sometimes use the mill
[02:12:57] <Jymmm> zeeshan|3: You don't give a shaft!
[02:13:06] <LeelooMinai> And what are those gears for? Some projects or you make them to sell?
[02:13:07] <zeeshan|3> http://i.imgur.com/j8cfYVT.jpg
[02:13:08] <zeeshan|3> remember that?
[02:13:11] <zeeshan|3> i posted it yesterday :P
[02:13:21] <zeeshan|3> LeelooMinai: car stuff
[02:13:24] <XXCoder2> how fast can lathe cnc be anyway? can it make square beam out of round stock by spinning and cutting
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[02:13:38] <zeeshan|3> XXCoder2: ofcourse
[02:13:41] <Jymmm> zeeshan|3: is that cat5 I see there???
[02:13:53] <zeeshan|3> Jymmm: you still picking on my wiring?
[02:13:53] <zeeshan|3> :D
[02:14:03] <Jymmm> zeeshan|3: Kinda.
[02:14:03] <LeelooMinai> It would have to be pretty wel synchronized I think...
[02:14:23] <zeeshan|3> #1 use for my lath eis big threading
[02:14:28] <zeeshan|3> like a 1 1/2" threads
[02:14:49] <Jymmm> zeeshan|3: After all the crap that I have seen and repaired over stupid shit, yea, I kinda do.
[02:15:12] <zeeshan|3> also you need a lathe to do long boring
[02:15:14] <XXCoder2> hey lee
[02:15:21] <zeeshan|3> http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p252/turbozee84/E17AE951-BCE5-4467-B059-745F6E0CA1DD_zps07ab2cxv.jpg
[02:15:24] <zeeshan|3> for example for the steam engine
[02:15:32] <zeeshan|3> http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p252/turbozee84/valve_zps4e4c6689.png
[02:15:33] <zeeshan|3> or make that
[02:15:37] <zeeshan|3> Jymmm: my wiring is fine :P
[02:15:56] <Jymmm> zeeshan|3: But don't feel bad, I gave skunkworks_ shit over lack of panduit too.
[02:16:10] <zeeshan|3> haha
[02:16:12] <Jymmm> zeeshan|3: Uh, BULLSHIT. electrical tape never belongs in CNC
[02:16:34] <LeelooMinai> It does not belong almost anywhere
[02:16:36] <Jymmm> zeeshan|3: unless you are working on cnc machinery that produces electricaltape =)
[02:16:44] <zeeshan|3> lol
[02:17:14] <zeeshan|3> http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p252/turbozee84/043BE080-A207-42E0-B50A-043F615774EB-16172-0000162E033AEB12_zpsda10c7bd.jpg
[02:17:19] <zeeshan|3> fittings like this made on the lathe too
[02:17:26] <XXCoder2> 3d printer would be better suited for printing tapes :P
[02:17:31] <zeeshan|3> v band flanges made on the lathe too
[02:17:42] <zeeshan|3> theres countless shit the lathe is used for and the mill cant do it
[02:17:45] <Jymmm> XXCoder2: glorified hot glue guns
[02:17:46] <zeeshan|3> at least a 3 axis mill
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[02:18:14] <zeeshan|3> http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p252/turbozee84/209F4E18-4326-459B-B434-E4D917B21701-4335-0000055369B9CDC6_zps983ec40e.jpg
[02:18:20] <zeeshan|3> another applicatrion (those bushings lol)
[02:19:03] <Jymmm> zeeshan|3: I bet this was your "my wiring is fine" too, huh? http://i51.tinypic.com/2eanmvd.jpg
[02:19:11] <zeeshan|3> http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p252/turbozee84/intake-2.jpg
[02:19:15] <zeeshan|3> velocity stacks made on the lathe too
[02:19:28] <zeeshan|3> lol
[02:19:33] <Jymmm> =)
[02:19:35] <zeeshan|3> Jymmm: fine i will heat shrink my wire!
[02:19:37] <zeeshan|3> i can still do it
[02:19:45] <Jymmm> zeeshan|3: TY
[02:20:01] <zeeshan|3> http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p252/turbozee84/eng_parts.jpg
[02:20:04] <zeeshan|3> heres more applications of lathe
[02:20:08] <Jymmm> zeeshan|3: the strain reliefs on DIN connectors work pretty well actually.
[02:20:15] <zeeshan|3> can i stop posting why a lathe is useful now? :P
[02:20:28] <zeeshan|3> Jymmm: i wanted to seal em
[02:20:31] <Tom_itx> no
[02:20:33] <zeeshan|3> cause they dont look water proof
[02:20:43] <zeeshan|3> Tom_itx: no to me?: P
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[02:20:55] <zeeshan|3> http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p252/turbozee84/turbo6.jpg
[02:20:57] <zeeshan|3> another flange!
[02:20:57] <Jymmm> zeeshan|3: the case isn't waterproof, whats your point?
[02:20:57] <LeelooMinai> Are there any special techniques for squaring CNC the first time? For no I can think of attaching indicator to the z-axis base and jsut run the x-axis to see how the distance to bed changes, but that's only one part of it
[02:21:00] <zeeshan|3> made on lathe
[02:21:07] <zeeshan|3> Jymmm: it is now
[02:21:14] <zeeshan|3> it's all sealed with caulking
[02:21:31] <Jymmm> I dont want to know
[02:21:33] <Tom_itx> LeelooMinai sure there are
[02:21:59] <LeelooMinai> Do I need something else than indicator and scales I have on all axis?
[02:22:03] <Tom_itx> make sure Z is straight up and down
[02:22:24] <zeeshan|3> if you were looking at your router from the side vide, you'd be checking for rotation aka knod
[02:22:31] <Tom_itx> make sure when you put an indicator in the spindle and move it around the bed, it doesn't change
[02:22:34] <zeeshan|3> and if you looked at it from the front view rotation
[02:23:34] <LeelooMinai> I also need to make sure the axis are perpendicular
[02:23:55] <LeelooMinai> X and Y for example
[02:24:01] <zeeshan|3> just attach your indicator to the axis of choice ie X axis
[02:24:09] <zeeshan|3> and mvoe it relative to the table
[02:24:15] <zeeshan|3> and check for misalignment
[02:24:27] <LeelooMinai> Right
[02:24:30] <XXCoder2> Tom_itx: is that method to check if bed is flat or making sure router is pointing exactly down?
[02:24:52] <Tom_itx> you get Z straight up and down first
[02:25:13] <LeelooMinai> How about calibration? If I move 5mm I notice I get a bit less on the digital scales - is that some stepper motor problem?
[02:25:32] <Tom_itx> once you get it all exact, tell it to move in a square about the table and see if the indicator ends up in the same spot it started
[02:25:34] <zeeshan|3> its easy to check for stepper problem
[02:25:45] <zeeshan|3> command to move it 0.050", then move it 0.050"
[02:25:54] <zeeshan|3> if it doesnt move another 0.050, more than likely your stepper's arent configured right
[02:25:56] <LeelooMinai> I mean stepper motor tolerance not repeatibility
[02:26:17] <LeelooMinai> It seems to prepeat well, just be out of scale a bit
[02:26:21] <zeeshan|3> you should know your lead screw tolerance, just by calculating it..
[02:26:26] <zeeshan|3> whats your pitch on your lead screw?
[02:26:29] <LeelooMinai> 5mm
[02:26:33] <zeeshan|3> and are you direct driving your steppers?
[02:26:36] <LeelooMinai> 5mm per rev that is
[02:26:40] <LeelooMinai> Yes
[02:26:44] <XXCoder2> LeelooMinai: does it "lose" distance each time it travels forward and back?
[02:26:49] <zeeshan|3> sorry, i work in inches lol
[02:26:50] <LeelooMinai> No
[02:26:59] <XXCoder2> or only certain direction and recovers on return?>
[02:27:15] <zeeshan|3> so your steppers do 200 steps for 360 degrees.
[02:27:32] <zeeshan|3> 5 mm = .196" , .196" / 200 = .0009"
[02:27:36] <LeelooMinai> Yes, well, let me test it now - I will move, say, 5cm and see what the scale says
[02:27:51] <LeelooMinai> How do I move relatively?
[02:27:51] <zeeshan|3> 0.025 mm should be your error
[02:28:11] <LeelooMinai> I only played with G00 for now - that's all I learned:)
[02:28:17] <zeeshan|3> just go into axis
[02:28:28] <zeeshan|3> and select whatever axis, and change the continuous to a value..
[02:28:31] <zeeshan|3> and click + once
[02:28:39] <LeelooMinai> But it has 5mm max
[02:28:49] <LeelooMinai> I guess I can add it to the ini, right?
[02:29:18] <LeelooMinai> NCREMENTS = 5mm 1mm .5mm .1mm .05mm .01mm .005mm
[02:29:22] <zeeshan|3> yea
[02:29:25] <LeelooMinai> ^ is that for that menu?
[02:29:35] <LeelooMinai> ok
[02:31:22] <LeelooMinai> ok, moved 50mm, the scale shows 49.92mm
[02:31:45] <LeelooMinai> I will noe move -50mm
[02:32:11] <LeelooMinai> And spot on 0.00mm
[02:32:18] <LeelooMinai> So it's a scaling issue
[02:32:43] <zeeshan|3> i dont thinkso
[02:32:46] <zeeshan|3> if its 1:1 ratio
[02:32:50] <zeeshan|3> and 5mm pitch, it cant be scaling issue
[02:32:54] <zeeshan|3> it can be lead screw error
[02:33:20] <LeelooMinai> But aren't those steppers rated for 5% accuracy?
[02:33:26] <LeelooMinai> I remember reading something like that
[02:34:38] <LeelooMinai> Mine has step accuracy +/- 5% in the datasheet - is that unusual?
[02:35:01] <zeeshan|3> link
[02:35:07] <LeelooMinai> Also, there's some calibration menu in the axis
[02:36:06] <LeelooMinai> http://wantmotor201204.sell.everychina.com/p-91230881-wantai-3-axis-nema-23-stepper-motor-57bygh115-003-425oz-in-driver-dq542ma.html
[02:36:16] <LeelooMinai> ^ it's the motor that is in that kit, there's specs below
[02:36:58] <zeeshan|3> 0.09 degree error
[02:36:59] <zeeshan|3> hmm
[02:37:35] <LeelooMinai> "A step motor is a mechanical device that is manufactured to a certain tolerance. Typically a standard motor has a tolerance of +/- 5% non accumulative error regarding the location of any given step."
[02:37:41] <LeelooMinai> From http://www.geckodrive.com/support/step-motor-basics/accuracy-and-resolution.html
[02:37:46] <LeelooMinai> So it seems to be "normal"
[02:38:06] <zeeshan|3> non accumulative error
[02:38:08] <zeeshan|3> nice
[02:38:22] <LeelooMinai> But it's non accumulative - yes, it will cancel after a rotation
[02:38:36] <LeelooMinai> I think
[02:38:41] <zeeshan|3> i dunno i might be calculating this wrong
[02:38:41] <zeeshan|3> but
[02:39:19] <zeeshan|3> 5% error of 1.8 deg means 0.09 degree max error, 360/0.09 = 4000 , 5mm/4000
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[02:39:32] <zeeshan|3> = 0.00125 mm error
[02:39:44] <zeeshan|3> which doesnt explain the 0.08mm error you're getting
[02:39:56] <LeelooMinai> Hmm... I have 800 steps per rev now
[02:40:16] <LeelooMinai> But anyways, 50mm that's 10 revs
[02:40:56] <LeelooMinai> But as they write non-accumulative, yes, I have no idea
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[02:41:16] <LeelooMinai> Unless my measuring scale is not perpendicular:)
[02:41:27] <zeeshan|3> use your dial indicator
[02:41:30] <zeeshan|3> and move it smaller
[02:41:36] <zeeshan|3> half the range of your dial indicator
[02:41:50] <LeelooMinai> Right, let me think how to attach it
[02:42:33] <LeelooMinai> I have magnetic holers - oops
[02:42:37] <LeelooMinai> holders*
[02:43:13] <XXCoder2> heh if you invent a way to hole magnetic field..
[02:43:14] <LeelooMinai> I could measure to the gantry wall I guess
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[02:44:13] <LeelooMinai> I need to MacGuver something now with a screw
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[02:45:25] <zeeshan|3> use a 25lb steel dumbell
[02:45:26] <zeeshan|3> :P
[02:46:51] <XXCoder2> would this work http://www.aliexpress.com/item/2014-New-6-150-mm-Digital-Vernier-Caliper-Micrometer-Guage-Electronic-Accurately-Measuring-Stainless-Steel-7/1867972985.html or will it fall apart as soon as I look at it? lol
[02:46:53] <LeelooMinai> ok, I know, rails are steel
[02:47:20] <skunkworks_> you have 5mm lead screws - direct drive?
[02:47:40] <zeeshan|3> XXCoder2: plastic jaws are a fail
[02:47:57] <skunkworks_> so - each full step is .025?
[02:48:05] <XXCoder2> one dollar lol http://www.aliexpress.com/item/EXPLOIT-TOOLS-60-mm-Mini-Plastic-Digital-CALIPER-VERNIER-GAUGE-MICROMETER/1860820598.html
[02:48:16] <XXCoder2> it even has exploit in store name :P
[02:48:40] <LeelooMinai> XXCoder2: Buy the ones I linked yesterday: http://www.aliexpress.com/item/FRS1021-150-Free-shipping-150mm-6-Digital-CALIPER-VERNIER-GAUGE-MICROMETER-Stainless-Steel-with-perfect-package/1781637577.html?s=p
[02:48:47] <LeelooMinai> Or similar
[02:48:55] <skunkworks_> You can't expect much more than .025mm positioning...
[02:49:02] <zeeshan|3> LeelooMinai: ! why do you buy online!
[02:49:20] <LeelooMinai> zeeshan|3: As opposed to what? :)
[02:49:29] <LeelooMinai> Flying to china? :)
[02:49:36] <zeeshan|3> no
[02:49:37] <XXCoder2> lee thanks I wiped cart by mistake so have to find em all again lol
[02:49:41] <zeeshan|3> http://www.canadiantire.ca/en/pdp/tools-hardware/measuring-tools/specialty-measuring/mastercraft-digital-caliper-0586800p.html#.U6jnQbG0TOU
[02:49:45] <zeeshan|3> !
[02:49:48] <zeeshan|3> its local
[02:49:55] <zeeshan|3> not as cheap
[02:49:57] <zeeshan|3> but still :P
[02:50:14] <LeelooMinai> zeeshan|3: That on sale and $15 + tax - on ali you can get lower
[02:50:20] <toastyde1th> tbh if there's one thing you should buy mitotoyo, it's calipers
[02:50:29] <toastyde1th> 30-40 dollar mics? fine
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[02:51:57] <LeelooMinai> ok, ready to do indicator test with 5mm
[02:52:01] <XXCoder2> lee I changed state to oregon site dont check zipcode apparently so everything else in my address is same. USPS will correct it :P plus msg says Change state to Washington
[02:52:02] <CaptHindsight> they are cheaper in Japan, if you're in the neighborhood
[02:52:36] <zeeshan|3> toastyde1th: i have both mitutoyo dial caliper, and digital vernier
[02:52:36] <zeeshan|3> and both of them read the exact same as my mastercraft china import
[02:52:36] <zeeshan|3> on gauge blocks
[02:52:36] <zeeshan|3> i usually use the mitutoyos for "precise work"
[02:52:36] <zeeshan|3> and the mastercraft ones for scribing the shit out of stuff :p
[02:52:40] <LeelooMinai> Hmm 5.005
[02:53:01] <LeelooMinai> So it my linear scale 0 it must be not parallel and I will need to fix it
[02:53:01] <toastyde1th> zeeshan|3, they usually do read the same until something goes wrong
[02:53:34] <toastyde1th> the imports also wear much faster and can have parallelism issues, which only crops up when you aren't expecting it
[02:54:51] <LeelooMinai> Then you buy another pair"_
[02:55:06] <zeeshan|3> toastyde1th: to be honest with you, for a home shop machinist
[02:55:11] <zeeshan|3> ive had mine for about 5 years now
[02:55:14] <LeelooMinai> Even if you buy 5 it will be probably be still cheaper
[02:55:14] <zeeshan|3> and they've seen a shit load of abuse
[02:55:27] <zeeshan|3> i will never use my expensive calipers on a daily basis
[02:55:32] <zeeshan|3> nor will i use em for scribing! :{
[02:55:33] <zeeshan|3> they cost too much
[02:56:11] <CaptHindsight> whats happenin in Toronto this time of year? might be doing a road trip to NY via the 401
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[02:58:11] <zeeshan|3> CaptHindsight: im anerd
[02:58:16] <zeeshan|3> i stay in my garage
[02:58:19] <zeeshan|3> or campus :P
[02:58:28] <zeeshan|3> and ocassionally the race track
[03:00:13] <zeeshan|3> toastyde1th: one place i've seen a siginficant deviation between chinese and proper company tools is a dial indicator
[03:00:16] <zeeshan|3> mechanical kind
[03:00:34] <zeeshan|3> my 1" chinese 0.001 indicator is out by 0.006" over 1" travel
[03:00:38] <toastyde1th> that's where it bothers me least
[03:00:49] <zeeshan|3> for me it bothers me a lot
[03:00:56] <zeeshan|3> cause i use dial indicators on the mill for each axis
[03:01:05] <zeeshan|3> they're my DRO :)
[03:01:06] <toastyde1th> bold
[03:01:19] <toastyde1th> i've only ever used dial indicators as a stop
[03:01:40] <zeeshan|3> theres no point in throwing glass scales on a machine ill prolly convert to cnc
[03:01:46] <zeeshan|3> so im just making the indicators work for now
[03:02:42] <toastyde1th> out of curiosity, why do you need a dro on a manual mill
[03:02:58] <zeeshan|3> bolt circles
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[03:03:13] <zeeshan|3> my X screw has almost 45 thou backlash
[03:03:15] <zeeshan|3> it confuses me sometimes :P
[03:03:18] <toastyde1th> lol
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[03:14:13] <toastyde1th> i always did bolt circles via layout
[03:14:39] <toastyde1th> drill press that shizz right up
[03:16:17] <zeeshan|3> for some reason
[03:16:30] <zeeshan|3> i love putting 3 dowels equially spaced for alignment
[03:16:35] <zeeshan|3> so they have to be pretty dead on
[03:16:49] <zeeshan|3> =/
[03:16:52] <toastyde1th> wut
[03:17:01] <toastyde1th> 3 dowels for alignment?
[03:17:11] <zeeshan|3> yes, on the face of a hub
[03:17:23] <zeeshan|3> where you can't register on the inner diametr
[03:17:44] <toastyde1th> time to make you some diemaker's buttons
[03:17:57] <toastyde1th> and stop farting about with dial indicators
[03:18:28] <toastyde1th> get them pins dead fuckin' nuts on a manual mill with a boring head
[03:18:37] <toastyde1th> .0002" if you've got a steady hand
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[03:35:53] <LeelooMinai> toastyde1th: You sound like a machinist-rapper:)
[03:36:00] <toastyde1th> hahaha
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[03:41:14] <toastyde1th> i'm of the opinion that diemaker's buttons are probably the most underused tool available to manual machinists
[03:41:24] <toastyde1th> so i try to evangalize them where possible
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[03:42:34] <LeelooMinai> Same here.
[03:42:39] <LeelooMinai> BTW, what are they?
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[03:43:27] <LeelooMinai> http://www.zazzle.ca/die+maker+buttons ? :)
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[03:43:41] <toastyde1th> they're essentially washers on steroids - you drill a hole in a bar, and turn the bar to some nice size
[03:43:52] <toastyde1th> sandpaper it, whatever, give it a nice finish that doesn't have tool marks
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[03:44:27] <toastyde1th> chop the bar up into .5" or so slugs
[03:44:48] <toastyde1th> now what you can do is rough drill holes in a part, big enough for a small bolt to fit in
[03:45:07] <toastyde1th> put a washer on the bolt, put a diemaker button under that, and bolt the button to the part
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[03:45:29] <toastyde1th> now you can do things like use a surface plate, height gauge, calipers, etc
[03:45:43] <toastyde1th> to precicely set the position of these buttons
[03:46:05] <toastyde1th> the best way to do it is a cheap height gauge with a dial indicator, and a cheap set of gage blocks.
[03:47:00] <toastyde1th> or for a bolt hole circle, you measure between the buttons themselves
[03:47:13] <Jymmm> toastyde1th: diemaker button ???
[03:47:33] <toastyde1th> either way, once they're in position, you tighten them down lightly, and take them over to the mill (preferably lathe faceplate, actually)
[03:47:53] <toastyde1th> line up the first button with a dial indicator, clamp the part down, and pull the button off
[03:47:58] <toastyde1th> drill + bore
[03:48:19] * LeelooMinai pretends the above is clear and simple
[03:48:23] <toastyde1th> sry
[03:50:50] <toastyde1th> a diemaker's button is just a set of thick rings that are all the same size
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[03:51:02] <toastyde1th> you position the rings on your part, because rings are easy to locate and move with bolt tension
[03:51:23] <toastyde1th> (bolt through the center)
[03:51:40] <toastyde1th> since the bolt's in the center, you can also use the ring to find your position on the mill to drill and bore a hole very accurately
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[03:52:19] <Jymmm> I'll take your word for it =)
[03:52:32] <toastyde1th> it's how they used to make stamping die sets and injection molds before cnc
[03:53:06] <toastyde1th> very-high-accuracy machine tools existed only after the 1960s or so
[03:54:45] <toastyde1th> sigh
[03:55:59] <Jymmm> tell the pyramid makers that =)
[03:56:12] <toastyde1th> no machine tools involved in the pyramids :D
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[03:56:29] <Jymmm> you never know
[03:56:36] <toastyde1th> it's true
[03:56:38] <toastyde1th> aliens could have done it
[03:56:46] <Jymmm> exactly
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[03:58:18] * LeelooMinai imagines caterpillar shaped aliens on some planet saying to each other "I could not have done it"
[03:58:54] <mozmck1> toastyde1th: do you have a link to more information on diemaker buttons?
[03:59:08] <toastyde1th> nope, they're just in every diemaker's book i've got
[03:59:12] <mozmck1> using them in particular?
[03:59:32] <mozmck1> I don't know that I have a book on diemaking in particular...
[03:59:46] <toastyde1th> a lot of the really old books don't even bother to explain what they are, they just say "use buttons for these type of layout tasks"
[04:00:10] <mozmck1> It's the using them that I'm having trouble understanding from your description.
[04:00:14] <toastyde1th> oh
[04:00:47] <toastyde1th> so you have a bunch of these buttons bolted loosely to a plate or something. You now measure, however you please, from your reference edges to the button centerline.
[04:01:52] <mozmck1> ok...
[04:02:11] <toastyde1th> if you have a hole you need 5.000" from an edge, and you have a .500" button, you're going to set your part with the datum side down on a surface plate, set your height gauge to 5.250", and tap the button around until it's zeroed
[04:03:04] <LeelooMinai> Hmm any suggestions on how to make xy table on my CNC? The only material I can see in the local shop is hot rolled 1/4 plate - is that pretty much useless for this purpose?
[04:03:18] <LeelooMinai> A36
[04:03:29] <mozmck1> I see. and then use a center or edge finder to locate the center on the mill?
[04:03:36] <toastyde1th> mozmck1, yep
[04:03:41] <toastyde1th> preferably you use a dial indicator
[04:04:02] <toastyde1th> and sweep around the edge until it reads 0 runout
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[04:04:16] <mozmck1> I see.
[04:04:24] <toastyde1th> don't even need the mill xy table for this, which is why the lathe was predominantly used for boring holes
[04:04:32] <Connor> LeelooMinai: You already have a table.. you just need a spoil board ?
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[04:04:58] <LeelooMinai> Well, I have a minimal bed that connects the rail blocks
[04:05:20] <LeelooMinai> I need to put something on on so that I will be able to somehow clamp workpieces to it
[04:05:22] <Connor> MDF ?
[04:05:24] <mozmck1> I have a punch press, maybe I should use my antique lathe to make some dies for it - I'm sure I'd learn a lot.
[04:05:24] <toastyde1th> (a hole bored on a lathe is usually more dimensionally stable)
[04:05:40] <Connor> cheap, can replace it.
[04:05:49] <Connor> stable.
[04:05:58] <LeelooMinai> And how will I clamp to mdf?
[04:06:23] <Connor> http://www.ivdc.com/cnc/cnc8.jpg
[04:06:29] <Connor> that's my router.
[04:06:44] <toastyde1th> mozmck1, at least personally it made a lot of things I thought were difficult, much simpler
[04:06:47] <mozmck1> toastyde1th: stable, not accurate?
[04:07:01] <toastyde1th> accuracy is improved if you have the gear to do it
[04:07:17] <LeelooMinai> Connor: Isn't mdf, hmm, not wery flat and dependant on humidity?
[04:07:18] <toastyde1th> for instance, it's easier to move a lathe .0001" than it is an inexpensive boring head
[04:07:24] <mozmck1> yes, I'm sure there were many tricks like that.
[04:07:40] <LeelooMinai> Connor: Or is it some special mdf?
[04:07:46] <toastyde1th> the hole is less likely to have major geometric defects in it, is what i meant
[04:07:56] <mozmck1> ok, so you do mean accurate? I think of stability as not changing with temperature etc.
[04:08:13] <mozmck1> crosstalk there.
[04:08:16] <toastyde1th> nah, i mean geometric consistency, as in gd&t
[04:08:19] <Connor> LeelooMinai: It's more stable than wood.. as long as the humidity doesn't change drastically.
[04:08:20] <mozmck1> I see.
[04:08:33] <toastyde1th> like, if you drill a hole with a drill, you wind up with a somewhat triangular hole
[04:08:49] <Connor> if in house in AC should be good.
[04:08:51] <toastyde1th> if you mill a hole with circular interpolation with CNC, you wind up with a square hole
[04:09:10] <mozmck1> or polygonal
[04:09:12] <LeelooMinai> Connor: So what do you mill with that mdf base?
[04:09:36] <toastyde1th> but on a lathe or boring head in a mill, you wind up with a fairly concentric/cylindrical hole
[04:09:52] <LeelooMinai> I saw people using fancy mic6 plates with lots of holes
[04:09:58] <toastyde1th> the boring head/mill tends to be very much not-perpendicular (normal) to the reference surface
[04:10:14] <Connor> LeelooMinai: I routed out slots using the router manually.
[04:10:17] <toastyde1th> whereas the lathe gives you quite a perpendicular hole, with the downside being a bit of conic error
[04:10:29] <toastyde1th> but the conic error winds up being so tiny few applications care about it
[04:10:29] <Connor> You can surface the spoil board with the router itself too.
[04:10:46] <Connor> using 1/2" bit.
[04:10:49] <LeelooMinai> Slots for the t-slots?
[04:10:56] <mozmck1> conic because of ways not being perpendicular or bit deflection?
[04:11:02] <Connor> Yea. I milled that using the router before I mounted it.
[04:11:12] <toastyde1th> the spindle not being parallel to the ways
[04:11:20] <LeelooMinai> Ah, I see - you have 4 t-slots there
[04:11:32] <toastyde1th> if your ways are ultra-worn, you can get some crazyness going on, but usually not measurable over most bored distances
[04:11:35] <Connor> You can also use 3" x 1" 80/20 or similar and make a bed.
[04:11:46] <mozmck1> I see, but in a good well setup lathe that should be quite minimal.
[04:11:51] <toastyde1th> yep
[04:12:10] <toastyde1th> and if you care-care, you can align the compound slide to the spindle
[04:12:16] <toastyde1th> and use that for boring.
[04:12:16] <mozmck1> Not that mine is :( I need to get it set and leveled.
[04:12:31] <LeelooMinai> Ok, I think a bed like that would be good for the beginning - should not be expensive if I can find those t-slots chea
[04:12:36] <LeelooMinai> cheap
[04:13:09] <Connor> I also went back and drilled 35 holes and put nuts on the underside.
[04:13:56] <Connor> T nuts...
[04:13:59] <LeelooMinai> Connor: Did you buy the t-slots online somewhere?
[04:14:18] <Connor> You can get those at any typical wood working shop.
[04:15:04] <LeelooMinai> And one of those sets then cam be used, right? http://www.ebay.ca/itm/Grizzly-G1076-Clamping-Kit-for-5-8-Inch-T-Slots-52-Piece-/151177897655?pt=BI_Tool_Work_Holding&hash=item2332e7a6b7&_uhb=1
[04:15:30] <Connor> Umm.. you need to use slightly smaller
[04:15:35] <Connor> depending on the size you get.
[04:15:43] <Connor> I think 1/4" set is what my slots are.
[04:15:57] <LeelooMinai> Right, they have different sizes
[04:16:02] <toastyde1th> strap clamps
[04:16:02] <toastyde1th> fyi
[04:16:07] <LeelooMinai> Ok, sounds like a plan, thx
[04:16:09] <Connor> I use the wood working style..
[04:16:13] <toastyde1th> is what those are called
[04:16:22] <Connor> you see them in my picture..
[04:16:25] <Connor> http://www.ivdc.com/cnc/cnc8.jpg
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[04:18:06] <LeelooMinai> Connor: lol, for long time I thought that that thing to the left is some very poor man's speaker column
[04:18:31] <Connor> rofl. No. fan for the electronics.
[04:18:35] <LeelooMinai> I think that's a signal I should go to sleep
[04:18:53] <Connor> http://www.ivdc.com/cnc/cnc4.jpg
[04:19:25] <LeelooMinai> That's a big fan
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[04:20:31] <Connor> 120v.. was from the Dot Matrix sound proof box I took the plexi from
[04:21:27] <LeelooMinai> Ok, I go to sleep - tomorrow more CNC adventures for me I guess
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[04:28:10] <XXCoder2> zeeshan|3: better that than my cheapass calipier. its around 1 mm off :P
[04:28:23] <XXCoder2> in least its consitient so easy to just add 1 mm
[04:29:31] <zeeshan|3> just zero em out?
[04:29:57] <XXCoder2> zee zero what?
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[04:30:19] <XXCoder2> it has nothing to zero out, its tape thats taped wrong place lol
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[05:38:14] <XXCoder2> LOL https://fbcdn-sphotos-f-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xpf1/t1.0-9/10500590_639226809495994_5763036536579688474_n.jpg
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[06:27:41] <archivist> XXCoder2, you can always zero calipers (never had any digital ones you cant)
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[07:07:23] <Deejay> moin
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[13:07:47] <jdh> aluminum alloy 6063 and 6061 the unique and dedicated mold extrusion profiles. let counterfeiters dwarfs
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[13:11:24] <SpeedEvil> 'you can't buy parts that fit it if stuff breaks'
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[13:21:34] <CaptHindsight> chinglish translation of the Rack Material http://www.carving-cnc.com/cnc3040-series/cnc-3040z-d52-new-version-router-engraver-drilling-and-milling-machine.html
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[13:23:26] <jdh> Once again, I'm almost ready to buy the carving-cnc 6040
[13:24:17] <jdh> I'm trying to convince myself it is better to get theirs for $1931 shipped vs. $1595 from random ebay seller
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[13:29:18] <CaptHindsight> I see nuts on the ends of one ballscrew for setting the bearing preload vs free floating
[13:32:14] <CaptHindsight> http://www.carving-cnc.com/media/simples/3040Z+D52_4.jpg they like to layer thin stock vs use thicker stock
[13:32:56] <jdh> that's the smaller one though
[13:33:53] <jdh> The cheaper ebay ones seem to have 65mm 800w spindles vs. 80mm 1.5kw
[13:34:40] <CaptHindsight> http://www.carving-cnc.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/600x600/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/6/0/6040z_s80_3_2.jpg
[13:35:12] <jdh> ?
[13:35:23] <CaptHindsight> at least they try to reinforce the gantry with some extra angle in the corners
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[13:37:01] <CaptHindsight> all the ones I've tried I can bend and twist the gantry with my arms quite a bit
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[13:42:10] <jdh> and these?
[13:42:47] <CaptHindsight> they look very similar
[13:43:12] <CaptHindsight> but they do have ballscrew nuts, many I've seen don't have them
[13:45:19] <jdh> I mainly just want to cut HDPE and plexiglas
[13:45:42] <jdh> but, light aluminum cutting would be nice.
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[13:57:02] <CaptHindsight> back in the 1950's there was a TV manufacturer that would walk up to the designers prototype and snip parts out of the set until it stopped working in order to cut the cost of manufacturing. If he didn't notice a change after snipping it got left out.
[13:57:36] <CaptHindsight> that's how I see a lot of these router designs being done
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[13:59:16] <jdh> yeah, no money in design, just in cutting mfg costs
[13:59:57] <CaptHindsight> but they are >90% there
[14:03:19] <CaptHindsight> I was only using them for non-contact applications.
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[14:04:44] <CaptHindsight> the worst ones didn't capture the ballscrews on the end, and they didn't even shim them into place so they had 1-2mm of lash
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[14:09:35] <JT-Shop> me needs a 3' tube behind the headstock of the CHNC somehow
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[14:18:19] <jdh> just in general, or to hold things in place?
[14:18:26] <archivist> only 3? as a bar is 10
[14:18:57] <jdh> I though a bar was 14.5
[14:19:27] <JT-Shop> I have to turn a 5' long piece of 5/8" delrin
[14:19:38] <JT-Shop> into little bitty parts
[14:20:03] <jdh> we have one set up with V rollers
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[14:20:56] <jdh> we cut/face a lot of 160" tubes. The ones the operators use have guards that cover the tube
[14:20:57] <archivist> I have most of a bar feed for my sliding head lathe but you plastic mat not fit it
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[14:22:32] <jdh> you can do some serious damage if the tube whips
[14:23:12] <archivist> the idea is the tube stops the bar inside from whipping
[14:23:34] <jdh> yeah. pain in the ass to get a 160" tube into a tube though
[14:25:49] <archivist> the bar feed tube I have has a slot down its length
[14:26:20] <JT-Shop> hmm I found a piece of 1" pvc that might work
[14:26:49] <jdh> we have another one with no tailstock that feeds into a 3" PVC pipe for parting 48" sections for disposal
[14:27:37] <archivist> JT-Shop, or half it and do two runs
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[14:29:46] <JT-Shop> I'd have to cut it into 3 pcs to keep it inside the headstock
[14:30:08] <JT-Shop> I think this will work and keep it from whipping inside the head stock to
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[15:23:22] <ssi> LeelooMinai: sorry I got distracted, you get your homing working?
[15:23:24] <ssi> agh
[15:23:26] <ssi> sry mischan
[15:24:20] <ssi> JT-Shop: yea just support some pvc on stands and that should keep it from whipping too bad
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[15:25:53] <JT-Shop> ssi, I rigged up a clamp on the sheet metal cover... just about to try it
[15:26:20] <ssi> I need to get my damn hnc fixed :'(
[15:26:27] <ssi> right after I get my damn plasma table running
[15:28:56] <jdh> you could park a sailboat outside and try living in it there for a year.
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[15:29:49] <ssi> I could
[15:30:00] <ssi> I just need to get the hell out of this city
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[15:34:05] <JT-Shop> yep it worked fine
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[15:54:32] <ssi> I have to go pick up a package from the post office... I imagine it's mesa hardware
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[16:24:19] <Tecan> http://centosn00b.blogspot.ca/2012/06/light-alternative-to-compiz-grid-effect.html
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[16:30:59] <MrHindsight> Tecan: are you uding Linuxcnc on Centos?
[16:31:32] <MrHindsight> uding/using
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[16:32:29] <Tecan> Linux
[16:32:32] <Tecan> gnome
[16:32:35] <Tecan> 2
[16:32:43] <Tecan> mate more specifically
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[16:40:10] <skroon> hi
[16:40:21] <skroon> any cambam user in here?
[16:50:24] -!- IchGuckLive [IchGuckLive!~chatzilla@95-89-98-199-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #linuxcnc
[16:50:29] <IchGuckLive> hi all B)
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[16:51:20] <IchGuckLive> hi skroon
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[16:59:47] <Deejay> re
[17:05:27] <IchGuckLive> ;.)
[17:06:34] <CaptHindsight> http://www.pcduino.com/pcduino-v3/ for got about this, priced too high but an A20 with duino pinouts
[17:08:15] <CaptHindsight> banana pi is only $30, this is $76.95
[17:08:20] <IchGuckLive> yes A20 is great got an spi also
[17:13:41] <Loetmichel> CaptHindsight: hmm
[17:14:01] <Loetmichel> i've looked: in germany the banana pi is 60-70 eur
[17:14:11] <jdh> who has teh 6040? 800w or 1.5kw spindle?
[17:14:23] <Loetmichel> jdh: mine has 800W
[17:14:56] <jdh> is 800 sufficient? Would 1.5kw be worth US$200 more?
[17:15:06] <jdh> (re: ebay 800w vs. carving-cnc 1.5kw)
[17:15:36] <IchGuckLive> i got both the 800 and the 1,5kw for the 6040 the 800w is good
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[17:18:03] <IchGuckLive> back son need to restart
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[17:35:15] <IchGuckLive> laptop is bad zeeshan-laptop
[17:35:24] <zeeshan-laptop> ??
[17:35:31] <IchGuckLive> O.o
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[17:41:42] <Loetmichel> jdh: friend has a 2.2kW version on his gantry
[17:42:09] <Loetmichel> beside the higher weight and an ER20 instad of ER11 i see no difference
[17:42:31] <Loetmichel> but my biggest aluminium Mill bit is a 6mm dia
[17:42:51] <Loetmichel> for that the 800W spindle is perfectly sufficient
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[17:43:04] <jdh> 2.5kw is more than I would want to power
[17:43:09] <jdh> but, 1.5kw sounds good.
[17:43:23] <Loetmichel> i dont see any advantage for small mill bits
[17:43:28] <Loetmichel> up to 6mm
[17:43:35] <Loetmichel> the 800W is good there
[17:43:38] <jdh> that would be my max also
[17:43:45] <IchGuckLive> in the universety i got a 2,2 on a haas vf3 to get better speed for Alu cutting as well
[17:43:58] <jdh> the 1.5kw does 24krpm
[17:44:10] <Loetmichel> the 800W does also
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[17:46:13] <ssi> blah
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[17:56:22] <zeeshan-laptop> power overkill!
[17:56:35] <zeeshan-laptop> im machining some magnesium tomorrow
[17:56:38] <zeeshan-laptop> should be "fun"
[17:56:44] <zeeshan-laptop> hopefully dont catch myself on fire
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[18:00:03] <Loetmichel> zeeshan-laptop: get a bucket of fine sand handy.
[18:00:07] <Loetmichel> just in case ;-)
[18:00:12] <jdh> Metal-X
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[18:00:19] <Loetmichel> or two buckets
[18:00:47] <jdh> water can be impressive on metal fires
[18:00:48] <zeeshan-laptop> yea we got metalx here
[18:00:57] <Loetmichel> what is metal-x?
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[18:02:02] <zeeshan-laptop> it X;s metal fire
[18:02:17] <zeeshan-laptop> :D
[18:02:21] <pcw_home> even sand has a exothermic reaction with magnesium
[18:02:42] <Loetmichel> does it?
[18:02:51] <pcw_home> yep
[18:03:31] <Loetmichel> so use talcum poweder
[18:03:39] <Loetmichel> that should do the trick
[18:03:41] <zeeshan-laptop> it tries to steal oxygen
[18:03:44] <zeeshan-laptop> from whatever it can!
[18:03:51] <Loetmichel> (being magnesium oxide already)
[18:04:30] <Loetmichel> zeeshan-laptop: i know. i just didnt knor that it has greater affiniyt to O2 than silicium
[18:05:04] * zeeshan-laptop eats some magnesium
[18:05:07] <zeeshan-laptop> mmm tastes good
[18:06:05] <LeelooMinai> Any tips on x-y top design for a cnc? Yesterday I think Connor showed me his solution that was mdf with aluminum t-slots embedded. any commonts on this or other solutions?
[18:06:45] <LeelooMinai> By "top" I mean the table
[18:07:06] <Connor> LeelooMinai: Spoil Board
[18:07:09] <LeelooMinai> I already have aluminum plate there
[18:07:24] <Jymmm> spoiler board with t slots
[18:07:31] <zeeshan-laptop> wood shouldnt belong on your cnc LeelooMinai
[18:07:32] <zeeshan-laptop> :D
[18:07:35] <LeelooMinai> Connor: O, hey - I am doing reasearch on your solution
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[18:07:44] * Jymmm smacks zeeshan-laptop with a 2x4
[18:07:49] <zeeshan-laptop> haha
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[18:08:16] <LeelooMinai> zeeshan-laptop: Yes, well, but other solutions seem to be crazy-expensive... I will not buy some mic6 plate for $800:)
[18:09:02] <LeelooMinai> Connor: Isn't spolboard, well, the mdf board?
[18:09:28] <LeelooMinai> Or it goes on top of that?
[18:09:39] -!- patrickarlt has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
[18:09:48] <Jymmm> LeelooMinai: http://www.rockler.com/woodworking/T-Slot-Tracks
[18:09:51] <Connor> Can be both.
[18:10:19] <LeelooMinai> Jymmm: Yes, I found something similar in my local store: http://www.leevalley.com/en/hardware/page.aspx?p=61646&cat=3,43576,61995,61646
[18:10:29] <zeeshan-laptop> by x-y top you mean a table
[18:10:31] <zeeshan-laptop> right?
[18:10:37] <LeelooMinai> Yes, table
[18:10:53] <zeeshan-laptop> if you get cold rolled steel for exaple
[18:11:02] <LeelooMinai> I have already micro-table, but it's supposed only to be use to mount the "real" table
[18:11:03] <zeeshan-laptop> the flatness is 0.003" over 12 feet
[18:11:04] <zeeshan-laptop> i believe
[18:11:21] <LeelooMinai> zeeshan-laptop: Ok, but how do I get t-slots on that then...
[18:11:22] <zeeshan-laptop> or you can take some 6061 flat plate
[18:11:26] <zeeshan-laptop> and mill your own t-slots
[18:11:28] <zeeshan-laptop> with your router
[18:11:45] <Connor> http://us.misumi-ec.com/vona2/detail/110302261910/?Inch=0
[18:11:54] <IchGuckLive> im off BYE
[18:11:57] <zeeshan-laptop> http://steelmanscuttingtools.com/products/t-slot-cutter.jpg
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[18:11:58] <zeeshan-laptop> those
[18:12:12] <Jymmm> zeeshan-laptop: not in MDF
[18:12:31] <LeelooMinai> Connor: Hmm... those have different shape... I want to have t-slots usable with those machinist sets for clampimg
[18:12:47] <zeeshan-laptop> im talking about aluminum plate
[18:12:54] <Jymmm> LeelooMinai: different animals
[18:12:56] <Connor> LeelooMinai: You make your own T nuts to use..
[18:13:05] <Connor> with the clamp set.
[18:13:09] <Connor> or just normal nuts.
[18:13:13] <zeeshan-laptop> fak making t nuts
[18:13:13] <Connor> if they'll fit.
[18:13:15] <zeeshan-laptop> when you can buy some!
[18:13:38] <Connor> zeeshan-laptop: Dude, Chill. :)
[18:13:54] <zeeshan-laptop> i am chill
[18:13:58] <zeeshan-laptop> and lazy
[18:14:20] <LeelooMinai> Ok, so what kind of t-slot rails I need to use those? http://www.kbctools.com/can/Navigation/NavPDF.cfm?PDFPage=762
[18:14:31] <Jymmm> LeelooMinai: The main diff I see in your local store vs the rockeler is the ability to use 1/4" hex instead of the fancy T-bolts
[18:14:38] <zeeshan-laptop> LeelooMinai: that clamping kit was on sale
[18:14:42] <zeeshan-laptop> at busybee tools locally
[18:15:06] <zeeshan-laptop> those t slot nuts need slots cut with the cutter i posted
[18:15:08] <LeelooMinai> Hmm... but is it usable with those woodworking t-slot rails?
[18:15:13] <Jymmm> LeelooMinai: Are you going to be doing aluminum?
[18:15:27] <LeelooMinai> Jymmm: Yes, I plan to do light milling in alu
[18:15:27] <Connor> LeelooMinai: Honestly, Those clamp sets are really for metal Milling machines.. not router..
[18:15:35] <Connor> Your going to want lower profile clamps.
[18:15:37] <Jymmm> LeelooMinai: Then forget the MDF all together.
[18:15:51] <zeeshan-laptop> look at LeelooMinai's machine
[18:15:59] <zeeshan-laptop> he's built the columns out of 1 1/2 aluminum
[18:16:08] <LeelooMinai> "she", but yes:)
[18:16:11] <zeeshan-laptop> there should be no wood on his machine if he's gone over killed
[18:16:16] <zeeshan-laptop> her
[18:16:22] <LeelooMinai> And it's 1 imch plates for gantry
[18:16:28] <zeeshan-laptop> its huge!
[18:16:29] <zeeshan-laptop> :P
[18:16:34] <ssi> pcw_home: did you perchance catch any of the backscrll about how I might have murdered my 5i25?
[18:16:41] <Loetmichel> define "huge"
[18:16:51] <zeeshan-laptop> if you want, yon buy some aluminum plate
[18:16:57] <zeeshan-laptop> and we can mill some t-slots :P
[18:17:07] <LeelooMinai> Hmm... ok, so now I don't know - seems like I cannot really make this table chaeply and use those machinist clamps
[18:17:08] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: Small, Medium, Large, OH MY GAWD <--- The last one =)
[18:17:26] <Loetmichel> Jymmm: thats relative ;-)
[18:17:35] <zeeshan-laptop> LeelooMinai: what the hell, i thought you were a guy all this time
[18:17:43] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: But defined.
[18:17:44] <ssi> Loetmichel: the metal he used relative to the size of the machine, yes it's huge
[18:17:45] * zeeshan-laptop feels stupid
[18:17:46] <Loetmichel> LeelooMinai: why not?
[18:17:49] <Connor> http://www.woodcraft.com/Product/2020317/21316/Build-It-System-Hold-Down-Clamp.aspx
[18:18:11] <zeeshan-laptop> 12.99 for a clamp
[18:18:12] <zeeshan-laptop> damn
[18:18:13] <LeelooMinai> zeeshan|3: Well, I am not. That's me there: https://www.flickr.com/photos/100017731@N03/10320811674/
[18:18:19] <Connor> Those are the high end ones.
[18:18:28] <Connor> those are nice low profile for routers..
[18:18:36] <Connor> gives nice clearance.
[18:18:37] <zeeshan-laptop> LeelooMinai: i saw that picture, and i thought that was your wife
[18:18:38] <zeeshan-laptop> haha
[18:18:45] <zeeshan-laptop> teaches me not to assume
[18:18:48] <LeelooMinai> lol... wife
[18:18:58] <Connor> With alias of LeeLoo ??
[18:19:08] <Connor> You ever watch 5th Element. ? :)P
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[18:19:33] <LeelooMinai> Man, irc is weird - people mistake you for your wige
[18:19:33] <Loetmichel> LeelooMinai: i would use a thick particle board or similar as a "sacrificial plate" and drill a grid of holes in it, put rampa nuts in there. -> perfect fit for the clamps
[18:19:36] <LeelooMinai> wife*
[18:19:49] <ssi> LeelooMinai: heheh it's irc, and we all make a bunch of silly assumptions :)
[18:19:50] <LeelooMinai> rampa nuts?
[18:20:00] <Loetmichel> just use a grid that is smaller than the slot in the clamps and you can reach any spot desired
[18:20:00] <Connor> Yea, I have slots & T-Nuts on my spoil board.
[18:20:08] <ssi> LeelooMinai: apologies for inaccurate pronouns :)
[18:20:46] <Connor> http://cdn.cshardware.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/3/6/36408802_l_2.jpg
[18:20:53] <Connor> T-nut. for mounting in wood.
[18:21:04] <LeelooMinai> Loetmichel: Ok, I will research that. I really like those machinist set clamps and would like to use them.
[18:21:19] <Loetmichel> http://www.werkzeug-profi-shop.at/M-Schrauben/Muttern/Rampa-Muffe-Stahl-blank/M5-x-10-Rampa-Muffe-Innensechskant-100-Stueck::3540.html
[18:21:24] <Loetmichel> @ LeelooMinai
[18:21:34] <Loetmichel> you can
[18:21:58] <Loetmichel> just omit the t-slot nut at the end and screw the bolt directly into the rampa nuts ;-)
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[18:22:21] <LeelooMinai> Also, since MDF is medium density fiberboard... Is there something like high density one?
[18:22:27] <zeeshan-laptop> holy shit
[18:22:34] <zeeshan-laptop> i spilled some gatorade on this magnesium
[18:22:36] <zeeshan-laptop> its fizzing
[18:22:46] <zeeshan-laptop> that was a bad idea
[18:22:58] <Jymmm> LeelooMinai: Do you plan on swapping out spoiler when doing metal/wood?
[18:23:17] <LeelooMinai> Jymmm: I would rather have one for both
[18:23:29] <Jymmm> LeelooMinai: Then forget the MDF all together
[18:23:49] <LeelooMinai> Jymmm: You think it's not rigid enough for alu milling?
[18:24:24] <Jymmm> LeelooMinai: MDf thru the face can even take a thread and will hold strong, but on it's edge won't evne hold a screw without splitting....
[18:24:53] <zeeshan-laptop> i hate mdf
[18:24:55] <LeelooMinai> Yes, but what would I need an edge screw on a table for?
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[18:25:05] <zeeshan-laptop> i made some subwoofer boxes out of that stuff, i dunno how you guys use it!
[18:25:10] <Jymmm> LeelooMinai: If you start using MDF with aluminum , I think your tracks will start coming loose as you "clamp down" to hold the aluminum in lplace.
[18:25:21] <ssi> mdf is gross stuff
[18:25:25] <zeeshan-laptop> ssi yes
[18:25:35] <zeeshan-laptop> gives you cancer ;.
[18:25:37] <ssi> yes it does
[18:25:40] <Jymmm> LeelooMinai: Basically it would be like a gear puller on the MDF
[18:25:41] <ssi> full of urea formaldehyde
[18:25:52] <LeelooMinai> The only cheap stuff I can buy is about 1/4 hot rolled steel plate - A26 or something like this... not sure if that would make any sense
[18:25:54] <ssi> LeelooMinai: also it does NOT tolerate moisture
[18:26:05] <Connor> Jymmm: That's why the grid of holes with T-nuts works well if using MDF with alumn.
[18:26:06] <ssi> LeelooMinai: if you use any kind of coolant or lubricant when machining you will ruin the mdy
[18:26:08] <zeeshan-laptop> LeelooMinai: you dont want hot rolled plate
[18:26:09] <ssi> f
[18:26:10] <ssi> it'll swell and get miserable
[18:26:18] <PetefromTn_> afternoon all..
[18:26:21] <ssi> petey
[18:26:24] <zeeshan-laptop> the tolerance on flatness is like 0.036"
[18:26:25] <LeelooMinai> I guess hot-rolled one will not be very flat, will be
[18:26:37] <PetefromTn_> hey man..Howsitgoin?
[18:26:39] <zeeshan-laptop> usually ive seen it out b 16 thou
[18:26:43] <zeeshan-laptop> *by
[18:26:47] <ssi> LeelooMinai: you're probably best off just sucking it up and getting some of that $$ cast aluminum tooling plate
[18:26:52] <Jymmm> Connor: I have a box of 100 tnuts and a 2"x2" grid on my 24"x24" MDF spoiler.
[18:26:55] <ssi> LeelooMinai: you already overbuilt the crap out of that machine, don't skimp now
[18:26:57] <zeeshan-laptop> ssi that shit is way too expensive
[18:26:58] <zeeshan-laptop> lol
[18:27:00] <LeelooMinai> Unless I mill the sirface or something - if that's possible
[18:27:00] <ssi> it's expensive
[18:27:11] <zeeshan-laptop> LeelooMinai: very possible, if its aluminum
[18:27:13] <Jymmm> Connor: when torqing down, you begin to compress the MDF over time.
[18:27:17] <zeeshan-laptop> you can use your rotor to face mill
[18:27:17] <ssi> LeelooMinai: you could also use regular aluminum plate and then flycut the surface with the machine
[18:27:18] <Connor> LeelooMinai: Either Extruded with slots, or a flat alumn plat milled to spec and drilled / tapped with holes.. get a local machine shop to do it if you can't
[18:27:19] <zeeshan-laptop> the table flat
[18:27:42] <ssi> PetefromTn_: it's goin... trying to get my plasma table back online
[18:27:53] <zeeshan-laptop> i told LeelooMinai that i can help him .. her
[18:27:55] <zeeshan-laptop> sldkjakdsja
[18:27:55] <PetefromTn_> get it done man....
[18:28:01] <ssi> PetefromTn_: I kilt my mesa card :/
[18:28:01] -!- skorasaurus2 has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
[18:28:05] <LeelooMinai> Ok, I guess I need to buy another piggy bank and wait a bit - as always
[18:28:08] <Jymmm> LeelooMinai: Do you have a pic of the baed of your machine?
[18:28:10] <PetefromTn_> yeah me too LOL...
[18:28:10] <Jymmm> bed*
[18:28:19] <zeeshan-laptop> PetefromTn_: hi
[18:28:22] <zeeshan-laptop> where have you been
[18:28:25] <PetefromTn_> hey man..
[18:28:35] -!- larryone has quit [Client Quit]
[18:28:42] <PetefromTn_> Been busy with stuff. making parts..family...etc.etc.
[18:28:52] <zeeshan-laptop> good to hear
[18:28:54] <LeelooMinai> Jymmm: It's like that - alu, but small - just to join the rail blocks: https://www.flickr.com/photos/100017731@N03/14362017434/
[18:28:54] <jdh> making family? cobngrats
[18:28:59] <Connor> LeelooMinai: Till then. MDF will work for playing and doing wood and plastic and light duty alumn
[18:29:03] <zeeshan-laptop> jdh hahahha.
[18:29:06] * Jymmm makes a MDf coffon for zeeshan-laptop, and tosses ssi into the MDF sawdust from it =)
[18:29:21] <zeeshan-laptop> Jymmm: youre always trying to plot my death
[18:29:23] <ssi> LeelooMinai: can you just use that as the table for now?
[18:29:26] <Connor> LeelooMinai: Why do you have a External DRO on the Z ?
[18:29:28] <zeeshan-laptop> the other day it was electical tape
[18:29:29] <zeeshan-laptop> :D!
[18:29:38] <ssi> LeelooMinai: tap some holes in it to mount a vise to
[18:29:49] <LeelooMinai> ssi: I would rather not - it has nothing to clamp materials
[18:30:14] <LeelooMinai> And if I damage it, well, I don't want to drill all those holes again...
[18:30:49] <Loetmichel> LeelooMinai: it you are determined to use wood: at least use marine grade plywood and not MDF
[18:30:58] -!- fogl2 [fogl2!~klemen@BSN-143-37-117.dial-up.dsl.siol.net] has joined #linuxcnc
[18:31:20] <Loetmichel> that will hold the forces of the rampa nuts or similar AND is not shy of a dab of water from time to time
[18:31:32] -!- tris [tris!tristan@2001:1868:a00a::4] has joined #linuxcnc
[18:31:33] <LeelooMinai> I am not determined to use mdf - just determined not to pay too much:)
[18:31:48] <Loetmichel> so no fear that your spoil board will suddenly double in size ;-)
[18:32:24] <LeelooMinai> Right, ok, I will look into those - thx - more research to do
[18:32:52] <Loetmichel> i usede a MFD spoilboard and spax for mounting the workpieces once
[18:33:05] <Jymmm> LeelooMinai: Is that the bed the DRO is sitting on?
[18:33:07] <PetefromTn_> been completely gutting and remaking my new RWS54 air rifle internals...
[18:33:18] <Loetmichel> but i milled only glass fibre,. carbon fibre and plywood and similar stuff
[18:33:26] <Loetmichel> no thick aluminium plates
[18:33:32] <zeeshan-laptop> pics
[18:33:32] <LeelooMinai> Jymmm: yes
[18:33:33] <PetefromTn_> machined a new destroked piston and hardened latch rod, also made custom delring spring guides and tophat.
[18:33:33] <zeeshan-laptop> PetefromTn_: omg you havent seen this
[18:33:33] <zeeshan-laptop> guess what i got running BEFORE JDH
[18:33:33] <ssi> LeelooMinai: that's overcomeable at least temporarily
[18:33:33] * zeeshan-laptop hides from jdh
[18:33:33] <ssi> LeelooMinai: dowel holes and tapped holes, or some small t-slots
[18:33:33] <PetefromTn_> what?
[18:33:33] <zeeshan-laptop> lathe!
[18:33:33] <zeeshan-laptop> :D
[18:33:33] <zeeshan-laptop> i made a brass hammer on it the other day
[18:33:33] <PetefromTn_> aah....does it work wortha damn?
[18:33:33] <zeeshan-laptop> yes
[18:33:34] <zeeshan-laptop> im using backlash comp to get rid of the 3.5 thou backlash in both axes
[18:33:34] <PetefromTn_> whats a better image hosting site other than imagebin.
[18:33:34] <zeeshan-laptop> now it reads perfect
[18:33:34] <zeeshan-laptop> PetefromTn_: imgur.com
[18:33:34] <zeeshan-laptop> http://i.imgur.com/j8cfYVT.jpg
[18:33:34] <Jymmm> LeelooMinai: If it is, you could get another piece of aluminum like that and drill/tap holes on a grid to use the camps you want. Just have alignment pins. Then you could swap/stck on top of it a MDF spoiler, again with alignment pins.
[18:33:34] * zeeshan-laptop high fives LeelooMinai on mdf comment
[18:34:00] <mozmck1> I've used MDF for spoilboard under aluminum plates plenty.
[18:34:00] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=4935
[18:34:03] <Loetmichel> you see?
[18:34:17] <Jymmm> LeelooMinai: Technically, you could drill/tap a grid on the existing bed, but I was suggesting a replaceable one
[18:34:18] <mozmck1> It does swell over time, but it is cheap and easy to replace when it gets too bad.
[18:34:32] <PetefromTn_> nice hammer man.
[18:34:37] <LeelooMinai> Jymmm: Yes, I want something on top of that
[18:34:40] <ssi> LeelooMinai: can you afford to get more material like what you've already used to make a table?
[18:34:44] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=4921&g2_imageViewsIndex=1 <- example of the things i made on this machine
[18:34:49] <zeeshan-laptop> PetefromTn_: weird looking but i was trying tom ess with contours and tapers
[18:34:55] <zeeshan-laptop> *mess
[18:34:57] -!- fogl has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds]
[18:35:09] <Jymmm> LeelooMinai: Just use another plat of what you already have for the bed is what I would do.
[18:35:12] <zeeshan-laptop> Loetmichel: she's milling aluminum..
[18:35:13] <Jymmm> plate*
[18:35:17] <zeeshan-laptop> she'll probably be using cutting fluid in the future
[18:35:20] <LeelooMinai> ssi: Possibly - it's 1/2 inch thick 6061-T6 plate
[18:35:37] <ssi> LeelooMinai: is the machine running already? spindle and all?
[18:35:40] <Loetmichel> zeeshan-laptop: thats why i said earlier to use marine plywood at least
[18:35:47] <zeeshan-laptop> LeelooMinai: on one of the machines i school
[18:35:50] <LeelooMinai> Not entirely cheap, but surely cheaper that those mic6 ones
[18:35:53] <Loetmichel> because its somehwhat waterproof
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[18:35:53] <zeeshan-laptop> we have t-slots custom milled..
[18:36:00] <zeeshan-laptop> for mini toe clamps
[18:36:02] <PetefromTn_> http://imgur.com/xiSgvqk
[18:36:05] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: is marine plywood dimentionally flat across it's surface?
[18:36:12] <ssi> zeeshan-laptop: that's what I've done on my little machine
[18:36:16] <Loetmichel> Jymmm: more or less
[18:36:20] <zeeshan-laptop> PetefromTn_: you made that on your lathe?
[18:36:20] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: lol
[18:36:24] <LeelooMinai> ssi: No - I am saving money for mesa kit and some mini router or spindle
[18:36:24] <Loetmichel> flatter than mdf ;-)
[18:36:24] <zeeshan-laptop> nice surface finish
[18:36:33] <PetefromTn_> yeah
[18:36:42] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: oh really? pics please
[18:37:00] <ssi> LeelooMinai: I would say hold off until you have spindle running... use the machine to drill dowel holes in the existing plate as well as screw holes that you'll tap by hand
[18:37:13] * Jymmm boots on the rubber boots while waiting for Loetmichel
[18:37:19] <Loetmichel> the machine in the pic was made of marine plywood
[18:37:24] <zeeshan-laptop> use your dremel to tap holes
[18:37:24] <zeeshan-laptop> !
[18:37:27] <PetefromTn_> original piston is in the background and new custom piston in front of that. Then the Compression chamber which was turned and honed and finally the custom spring with delrin guides at both ends..
[18:37:27] <ssi> LeelooMinai: then clamp the new bed onto the old bed and use the machine to accurately drill dowel holes and clearance holes for machine screws
[18:37:28] * zeeshan-laptop ducks
[18:37:34] <Loetmichel> exept the spoil bard
[18:37:37] <Loetmichel> board
[18:37:45] <ssi> LeelooMinai: the dowel holes will make sure that the bed always goes back on perfectly aligned
[18:37:46] <LeelooMinai> ssi: Yes, I probably want to be able to use cnc itself to drill in the table
[18:37:46] <zeeshan-laptop> PetefromTn_: what material?
[18:37:57] <Loetmichel> which was blocks of glued down mdf
[18:37:59] <ssi> LeelooMinai: and then mount the new bed and use a flycutter in the spindle to surface the new plate
[18:38:01] <PetefromTn_> it's all O-1 tool steel.
[18:38:06] <zeeshan-laptop> nice!
[18:38:11] <ssi> LeelooMinai: secure the top plate to the bottom using counterbored socket cap screws
[18:38:27] <zeeshan-laptop> thats really nice surface finish man especially for o-1 tool steel
[18:38:33] <zeeshan-laptop> i guess your lathes arent a piece of shit after all
[18:38:34] <zeeshan-laptop> :)
[18:38:36] <zeeshan-laptop> *our
[18:38:39] <LeelooMinai> ssi: Yes, that's how I attached the current plates to blocks
[18:38:41] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=4821 <- same machine before fitting a new sheet of spoilboard ;-)
[18:38:41] <PetefromTn_> I machined a delrin guide for the rear of the piston and the front has an O-ring seal to replace the original plastic parachute seal..
[18:38:43] <ssi> then you can treat the top plate however you want... use the machine to mill T-slots into it, or drill a pattern of dowel holes and tapped holes for fixtures
[18:39:01] <zeeshan-laptop> OR
[18:39:03] <ssi> LeelooMinai: you can even make two or more different plates that use the same mounting pattern, so you can have one for holding tooling fixtures and another with tslots
[18:39:07] <zeeshan-laptop> you can just bring me a 1/2" plate
[18:39:11] <PetefromTn_> yeah it is not too bad really. I have considered making it CNC... Would rather keep it and get another CNC lathe tho..
[18:39:13] <zeeshan-laptop> and we can make you a nice flat table
[18:39:19] <zeeshan-laptop> with t-slots!
[18:39:20] <zeeshan-laptop> :P
[18:39:31] <LeelooMinai> zeeshan|3: That's nice, but I must make everything myself:)
[18:39:36] <zeeshan-laptop> whats the dimensions of your table btw
[18:39:45] <ssi> LeelooMinai: what are you thinking about for a spindle?
[18:40:05] <LeelooMinai> I checked travel yesterday and on X-Y it's 342x170mm
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[18:40:27] <zeeshan-laptop> oh the mill can easily make a table of that dimension
[18:40:38] <LeelooMinai> ssi: Maybe mini-router for now - like those tiny bosh or makita ones. Spindles cost more and I would need vfd too
[18:40:42] <PetefromTn_> Right now the rifle with these internals has a VERY fast short firing cycle and while that is desirable it is basically too fast now. It kinda feels a tad harsh so I am making a custom transfer port to kinda choke things down to slow it a tad bit..
[18:40:51] <LeelooMinai> 270mm*
[18:41:08] <zeeshan-laptop> nice PetefromTn_
[18:41:12] * LeelooMinai disappears temorarily
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[18:41:33] <PetefromTn_> Connor Make up your mind man are ya here or not LOL..
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[18:41:56] <Connor> PetefromTn_: Machine locked up. had to reboot
[18:42:26] <PetefromTn_> fun!
[18:43:06] <Loetmichel> that machine doing aluminium -> http://www.cyrom.org/MC/jumpjetkopterteile1.avi ;-)
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[18:43:33] <PetefromTn_> http://imgur.com/s8PsChP YUMMY!!
[18:43:45] <zeeshan-laptop> sexy
[18:44:00] <zeeshan-laptop> http://i.imgur.com/Q5QLdR9.jpg
[18:44:11] <zeeshan-laptop> compare magesium sheets vs aluminum sheet on bottom
[18:44:18] <zeeshan-laptop> look at how grainy the magnesium is
[18:44:18] <zeeshan-laptop> weird
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[18:44:52] <Loetmichel> how much the MG was?
[18:45:07] <zeeshan-laptop> like 700$ for that stack you see
[18:45:11] <Loetmichel> its grainiy because ists cut with a shear
[18:45:18] <Loetmichel> and that stack has which size?
[18:45:24] <zeeshan-laptop> its some experimental magnesium alloy
[18:45:27] <PetefromTn_> Damn that thing is loud..
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[18:45:45] <zeeshan-laptop> Loetmichel: the shear leaves a nice finish on aluminum though
[18:45:48] <zeeshan-laptop> :P
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[18:46:13] <zeeshan-laptop> grains must be larger in the magnesium sheet
[18:46:29] <Loetmichel> zeeshan-laptop: no, mg is more brittle than al
[18:46:36] <Loetmichel> al "flows"
[18:46:48] <Loetmichel> mg is more like cast steel
[18:46:51] <Loetmichel> it breaks
[18:46:57] <PetefromTn_> http://imgur.com/YJDTrzc latest one..
[18:47:02] <zeeshan-laptop> ductility really depends on the alloying Loetmichel
[18:47:17] <zeeshan-laptop> theres some grades of 51xx aluminum
[18:47:28] <Loetmichel> zeeshan-laptop: add "usually"
[18:47:33] <zeeshan-laptop> which have almost 1.5x the ducility of standard 5052
[18:48:34] * zeeshan-laptop thinks magnesium is a useless element when it comes to making car components
[18:48:38] <zeeshan-laptop> =/
[18:48:54] <PetefromTn_> sure catches fire nice tho..
[18:49:02] <zeeshan-laptop> its like carbon fiber
[18:49:04] <ssi> beechcraft made ruddervator skins out of magnesium sheet
[18:49:08] <zeeshan-laptop> its nice on paper, till you look at the big picture
[18:49:09] <ssi> and it ended up being a big problem
[18:49:17] <ssi> corrosion, very expensive to replace
[18:49:35] <zeeshan-laptop> ssi we have a lab here that is tackling the corrosion issue
[18:49:36] <PetefromTn_> nothing like good old cheapass aluminum..
[18:49:49] <Loetmichel> i like 3%mg in my std aluminium alloy ;-)
[18:49:49] <ssi> they did it because they could use thinner mg skins
[18:49:52] <zeeshan-laptop> carbon fiber is light, stronger, blah blah
[18:50:01] <zeeshan-laptop> but, what do you do with it after 10 years when your car needs to go to the garbage?
[18:50:24] <ssi> zeeshan-laptop: crush it to powder :)
[18:50:36] <PetefromTn_> after 10 years the car needs to go to the garbage anyways the way we are making them currently...
[18:50:37] <zeeshan-laptop> at least with steel, mg, al you canrecycle
[18:50:41] <Loetmichel> carbon fiber will just burn off when the steel is recycled
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[18:51:04] <zeeshan-laptop> burning carbon fiber is pretty toxic
[18:51:12] <Loetmichel> it isnt
[18:51:13] <zeeshan-laptop> the binder is some nasty stuff
[18:51:14] <ssi> nah, just the expoxy :)
[18:51:19] <Loetmichel> burning epoxy is
[18:51:28] <ssi> the biggest problem with CF is that it's very brittle
[18:51:29] <zeeshan-laptop> wel how doyou think carbon fiber is actually practically made
[18:51:32] <Loetmichel> ssi: hi5
[18:51:34] <ssi> :)
[18:51:40] <ssi> also very freakin expensive
[18:51:42] <zeeshan-laptop> it has a shit load of binder in it
[18:51:47] <zeeshan-laptop> epoxy
[18:51:56] <ssi> you get some strength to weight ratio out of CF vs fiberglass, but at 10x the cost
[18:52:00] <ssi> and the gain just isnt' huge
[18:52:16] <zeeshan-laptop> ssi, but fiberglass is exactly that
[18:52:17] <zeeshan-laptop> glass ;p
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[18:52:24] <ssi> proper sandwich fiberglass consctruction is mind blowingly strong
[18:52:34] <Loetmichel> zeeshan-laptop: ideal cf parts are made of nnearly 90% fiber and 10% epoxy
[18:52:35] <ssi> carbon is stronger, but not enough stronger to justiy the cost
[18:52:39] <Loetmichel> not the other way round
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[18:52:49] <zeeshan-laptop> loet, okay, and now lets say we have a 500lb carbon fiber unibody
[18:52:51] <Loetmichel> i was 4 years in de model plane business
[18:52:58] <Loetmichel> i know... ;-)
[18:53:02] <ssi> also CF is much harder to fabricate with by hand... it needs to be vacuumed and autoclaved to guarantee the strength
[18:53:05] <zeeshan-laptop> 50lb of that is epoxy
[18:53:10] <zeeshan-laptop> thats a lot of toxic emissions
[18:53:14] <ssi> Loetmichel: I'm in the not-so-model plane business :)
[18:53:26] <zeeshan-laptop> ssi a lot of that is automated now days
[18:53:29] <zeeshan-laptop> for mass production
[18:53:34] <ssi> zeeshan-laptop: not in aviation it's not
[18:53:40] <ssi> almost nothing is automated in aviation
[18:53:43] <Loetmichel> carbon ist stronger, by far lighter and more important: less springy than GF
[18:53:46] <ssi> the volume is way too low
[18:53:49] <zeeshan-laptop> ???
[18:54:04] <zeeshan-laptop> landing gears are highly automated machining
[18:54:24] <ssi> landing gear isn't made out of carbon fiber :)
[18:54:25] <PetefromTn_> hell just belly land the pig..
[18:55:18] <Loetmichel> ssi: i know. the cf plate we were using were made from airbus leftovers
[18:55:46] <ssi> I've got a roll of about fifteen yards of CF cloth that's delta surplus
[18:55:49] <Loetmichel> (prepregs that were about to reach "best before")
[18:55:52] <ssi> I have a bunch of friends that work in delta maintenance :)
[18:55:59] <zeeshan-laptop> ssi give me some
[18:56:01] <zeeshan-laptop> !
[18:56:05] <zeeshan-laptop> i will make a hood out of it
[18:56:06] <ssi> go find your own! :D
[18:56:14] <ssi> shit's $60/yard!
[18:56:17] <zeeshan-laptop> haha
[18:56:32] <Loetmichel> ssi: and the aiurbus stuff was a hell of a lot stronger than the standard stiff you can buy in the model shop ;-)
[18:56:41] <ssi> Loetmichel: yea prepreg is awesome
[18:56:48] <PetefromTn_> I am sitting here trying to draw the custom trigger insert for my rifle and its a beotch...
[18:56:59] <zeeshan-laptop> lol PetefromTn_
[18:57:06] <zeeshan-laptop> just draw a stickman
[18:57:09] <zeeshan-laptop> and call it a day
[18:57:33] <ssi> ok so anyone have any experience flashing 5i25 firmware?
[18:57:37] <PetefromTn_> Wanting to build in more adjustments and change some pivot points from the original plastic POS trigger blade and come up with a much nicer match trigger.
[18:57:58] <Loetmichel> ssi: these were fun. -> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=4772&g2_imageViewsIndex=1
[18:58:12] <Loetmichel> the tiles were 30cm by 30cm ;-)
[18:58:13] <ssi> Loetmichel: nice work
[18:58:25] <ssi> Loetmichel: was the prepreg cured when you got it?
[18:58:30] <Loetmichel> yes
[18:58:32] <ssi> gotcha
[18:58:43] <ssi> is it laser cut or waterjet?
[18:58:47] <ssi> or I guess it could be milled
[18:58:51] <ssi> but milling cf is tough
[18:59:04] <PetefromTn_> I also want to build it to accept this cool adjustable trigger blade...http://www.altiusguns.com/product.php?product_id=21093
[18:59:12] <Loetmichel> that were 7mm thick plates, 2 layers prepreg eachss side and 6mm armaid paper honeycomb in the middle
[18:59:20] <Loetmichel> ssi: use the right toos
[18:59:22] <Loetmichel> tools
[18:59:22] -!- skors has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
[18:59:46] <ssi> Loetmichel: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BOqqIEJCIAEGkdg.jpg:large
[18:59:51] <ssi> I milled all that
[19:00:00] <ssi> with an HSS endmill :/
[19:00:05] <ssi> poor little endmill never saw it coming
[19:00:05] <ssi> heh
[19:00:10] <zeeshan-laptop> thas sexy
[19:00:11] <zeeshan-laptop> what is it
[19:00:17] <ssi> instrument panel for my airplane! :D
[19:00:24] <zeeshan-laptop> nice
[19:00:31] <zeeshan-laptop> pics of airplane?
[19:00:33] <ssi> https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BOqqQCOCAAAvQAg.jpg:large
[19:00:49] <zeeshan-laptop> you're 5 levels above me
[19:00:53] <zeeshan-laptop> i build race cars
[19:00:55] <PetefromTn_> looks like a place to play Wii..
[19:00:55] <Loetmichel> ssi: too murderer
[19:00:56] <zeeshan-laptop> you build frigging ariplanes
[19:00:57] <zeeshan-laptop> hahah
[19:01:07] <ssi> https://scontent-a-iad.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-frc3/t1.0-9/247629_10100172352152412_325887569_n.jpg
[19:01:13] <Loetmichel> use tungsten carbide tools, preferably diamopnd-clad!
[19:01:19] <zeeshan-laptop> ssi
[19:01:21] <zeeshan-laptop> that is so sexy!
[19:01:25] <ssi> :)
[19:01:27] <zeeshan-laptop> custom built?
[19:01:40] <ssi> zeeshan-laptop: depending on your definition of custom, yes
[19:01:51] <zeeshan-laptop> like handcrafted aluminum skins
[19:01:51] <Loetmichel> ssi: i made a "fulll CF" quadcopter frame...
[19:01:52] <zeeshan-laptop> = custom
[19:02:05] <Loetmichel> weithing less than 100gr.
[19:02:07] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=5245
[19:02:18] <ssi> zeeshan-laptop: this one is a kit, and it comes looking like this
[19:02:19] <ssi> zeeshan-laptop: http://www.vansaircraft.com/images/rv-7_standard_kit_lg.jpg
[19:02:20] <Loetmichel> that are 1 liter milk packs on it ;-)
[19:02:28] <zeeshan-laptop> wow
[19:02:32] <ssi> but most people misinterpret the word "kit"
[19:02:32] <zeeshan-laptop> that is so cool.
[19:02:34] <ssi> it's custom
[19:02:39] <ssi> there's tons of fabrication
[19:02:49] <zeeshan-laptop> do you have to tig weld anything?
[19:02:50] <ssi> the kits just save you a pile of sheetmetal prep
[19:02:53] <PetefromTn_> better get it right man!!
[19:02:55] <zeeshan-laptop> or is it bolts and nuts and rivets
[19:03:00] <ssi> it's mostly rivets
[19:03:11] <ssi> I've had to do some welding, but it's conceivable to completely build one of these with no welding
[19:03:31] <ssi> I also built the fuselage for a pitts S1-S, which was a scratchbuilt welded tube steel truss fuselage
[19:03:32] <zeeshan-laptop> thin wall aluminum is a bitch to weld without warping
[19:03:49] <ssi> and for that I got plans and bought a truckload of tubing and cut/fit/welded
[19:04:01] <zeeshan-laptop> ssi did i mention you're crazy?
[19:04:07] <ssi> oh I'm aware
[19:04:08] <zeeshan-laptop> you're going to be flying a custom built plane
[19:04:09] <zeeshan-laptop> haha
[19:04:12] <zeeshan-laptop> !
[19:04:13] <Loetmichel> i wouldnt trust an airframe i had wleded my self, to be honest ;-)
[19:04:15] <ssi> that's not what makes me crazy :)
[19:04:18] <Loetmichel> welded
[19:04:21] <ssi> Loetmichel: I would
[19:04:33] <zeeshan-laptop> tig welding an air frame would be realy easy
[19:04:34] <ssi> Loetmichel: I'm not the world's best welder, but I'm adequate
[19:04:36] <zeeshan-laptop> i love tig
[19:04:46] <ssi> and I have a friend who's a certified aerospace welder, and he looks over my work
[19:04:46] <zeeshan-laptop> you know exactly how much youre penetrating
[19:05:02] <ssi> plus I've seen the oxyfuel welded bullshit that people built in the 60s and 70s that flies just fine
[19:05:04] <zeeshan-laptop> ssi, after you've flown your plane for a couple months
[19:05:07] <zeeshan-laptop> take me for a ride :D
[19:05:11] <ssi> zeeshan-laptop: what part of the world are you in
[19:05:19] <zeeshan-laptop> near toronto, canada
[19:05:24] <ssi> ok it's a deal :)
[19:05:29] <ssi> I can be in toronto in 4 hours in this thing
[19:05:32] <zeeshan-laptop> hehehe
[19:05:54] <ssi> I actually have really been wanting to go to toronto
[19:05:56] <ssi> I hear it's awesome
[19:06:02] <Loetmichel> ssi: top speed around 200 mph?
[19:06:09] <zeeshan-laptop> im going to be going for my recreational permit after im done my masters
[19:06:16] <zeeshan-laptop> yea man, theres a lot to do here
[19:06:21] <ssi> Loetmichel: Vne is 230mph
[19:06:35] <Loetmichel> cloese enough ;-)
[19:06:37] <Loetmichel> close
[19:06:39] <ssi> Loetmichel: cruise speed I'm hoping for 216mph
[19:06:43] <ssi> 188kt
[19:06:46] <Loetmichel> nice
[19:06:47] <ssi> that's my target :)
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[19:06:52] <ssi> should be able to break 180 fairly easily
[19:06:59] <ssi> it's 200hp and 1100lb empty
[19:07:15] <Loetmichel> as long as you dont plan to do supersonic its fine with me ;-)
[19:07:16] <ssi> ~1800lb gross... that's a lot of power/weight
[19:07:22] <zeeshan-laptop> what kind of license do you have
[19:07:25] <ssi> nah, supersonic is tough
[19:07:37] <ssi> zeeshan-laptop: ppasel/instrument
[19:07:45] <zeeshan-laptop> ah so you can fly at night time too
[19:07:47] <ssi> sure
[19:07:57] <ssi> any private pilot can fly at night in the us
[19:08:01] <ssi> only sport pilot license can't
[19:08:48] <Loetmichel> thet a some things i would LIKE tha german government to copy from america
[19:08:56] <Loetmichel> ... and its not the NSA behavior.
[19:09:03] <ssi> heh
[19:09:09] <ssi> aviation is the last bastion of freedom in the us
[19:09:16] <Loetmichel> but the ppl in germany is prohibitive expensive
[19:09:26] <ssi> there are tons of rules, but the rules are only there so that when someone dies the government can blame the pilot
[19:09:32] <zeeshan-laptop> ssi lol
[19:09:41] <Loetmichel> and you have to do 100 hr airtime a year or it its forfeit
[19:09:41] <zeeshan-laptop> its always the pilots fault
[19:09:49] <ssi> Loetmichel: 100hr a year is a ton
[19:10:05] <zeeshan-laptop> 100 hours wtf
[19:10:07] <ssi> I flew 250hr/yr my first two years of airplane ownership
[19:10:10] <zeeshan-laptop> thatd cost 18,500$ here
[19:10:11] <ssi> but these days it's more like 30-50
[19:10:40] <Loetmichel> (or was it 50 hr a year?)
[19:11:00] <ssi> Loetmichel: http://www.vansaircraft.com/public/rv7perf.htm
[19:11:05] <Loetmichel> and helicopter was 100
[19:11:17] <ssi> Loetmichel: the numbers on the rv7 are very impressive
[19:11:21] <zeeshan-laptop> give it a shot of nitrous
[19:11:25] <ssi> and they actually make the numbers too
[19:11:36] <ssi> there's 9000 of these planes flying
[19:11:39] <ssi> across the vans product line
[19:11:53] <Loetmichel> th only "real" thing i have ever piloted is this: http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=3542
[19:12:05] <Loetmichel> ... and that was a LOOOONG time ago, apparently ;-)
[19:12:08] <ssi> yea we talked about that :)
[19:12:09] <zeeshan-laptop> Loetmiche lol
[19:12:14] <zeeshan-laptop> you look so young there
[19:12:16] <ssi> back when you were a spry youngster :)
[19:12:24] <Loetmichel> i was, about 20
[19:12:25] <zeeshan-laptop> Loetmichel: working for the SS? :P
[19:12:38] <Loetmichel> hmm?
[19:12:46] <Loetmichel> no, but flying in da dawn
[19:12:55] <Loetmichel> better have sunglasses
[19:13:08] <Loetmichel> and these were top modern in the 90s
[19:13:55] <Loetmichel> they were even calles "pilot sunglasses"
[19:15:07] <Loetmichel> or like a friend said "fliege puck brille" (fly "puck" glasses) because of the blue mirror finish on the outside of the glasses
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[19:19:25] <zeeshan-laptop> woohoo early day off
[19:19:27] <zeeshan-laptop> bi
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[19:22:53] <ssi> lol
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[19:24:44] <kfoltman> guys, what's the advantage (if any) of milling profiles by 'spiral' movements as opposed to slice by slice?
[19:24:55] <ssi> trochoidal milling you mean?
[19:25:11] <kfoltman> (slice by slice = mill a profile at 1mm depth, descend, mill the same profile, descent etc.)
[19:25:14] <ssi> the idea is to keep a constant cutter engagement depth for max toolpath efficiency
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[19:30:36] <kfoltman> ssi: not trochoidal I think, I mean the method cambam uses where it descends into the profile gradually as opposed to plunging
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[19:31:46] <kfoltman> I suppose it's the only way to use if the endmill does not do centre-cutting
[19:32:04] <ssi> oh... yeah, plunging is hard even on center cutting mills
[19:32:47] <kfoltman> context: I'm trying to replace cambam (which is kinda expensive for now) with a custom contraption made in Python, for the things that such a simple contraption might be adequate
[19:33:03] <kfoltman> this is for simple parts with few slots/milled holes
[19:33:46] <kfoltman> so, I'm trying to come up with some API that would allow me to express the common milling operations (well, the ones I'll need) with relative ease
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[19:36:47] <Tom_itx> you mean spiral ramping?
[19:36:56] <kfoltman> Tom_itx: I think so
[19:37:07] <kfoltman> I'm new to CNC :)
[19:38:35] <Tom_itx> http://gnipsel.com/files/g-code-generator/
[19:38:40] <Tom_itx> have a look at jt's work
[19:39:01] <Tom_itx> for basic stuff
[19:43:20] <kfoltman> Tom_itx: Looking, but it looks like it's doing many things I'm not planning to do and few things I *am* planning to do :)
[19:43:39] <kfoltman> and it's GUI-oriented, not scripting-oriented
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[19:49:22] <ssi> kfoltman: i'd be interested in seeing what you come up with, and maybe helping
[19:49:26] <ssi> cam has been the bane of my existence for a long time :)
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[19:50:10] <kfoltman> ssi: well, in any case, I'm a newbie so keep your expectations realistic
[19:50:11] <kfoltman> but
[19:50:42] <kfoltman> yeah, for lots of stuff the web generators suck and the there's very little usable free CAM software
[19:51:17] <kfoltman> and the commercial stuff is expensive, overkill and not well suited for really simple things
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[19:53:45] <kfoltman> ssi: http://hastebin.com/kerewugexi.py
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[19:56:04] <ssi> kfoltman: so, looks like you're just trying to make a conversational domain specific language to write g code at a higher level
[19:56:08] <ssi> not so much do actual CAM
[19:56:37] <ssi> in my mind, CAM means taking some representative form of an object you want to make, be it a dxf or an stl or whatever, and turning that into toolpaths programmatically
[19:57:00] <ssi> whereas what you're doing is writing an interpreter for a higher level language that interprets to g code
[19:59:07] <kfoltman> well, technically, "some representative form" doesn't need to be a pure data file
[19:59:24] <ssi> well sure
[19:59:36] <kfoltman> I'm not trying to read DXF, or at least, not yet
[19:59:41] <ssi> point being, eventually it's nice to be able to start in cad and then generate g code without having to write by hand
[20:00:01] <kfoltman> possibly
[20:00:12] <ssi> cause honestly for stuff that's simple enough to machine with what you're creating, it's simple enough to do in g-code
[20:00:25] <ssi> your time would be better spent learning how to do looping and subroutines in g-code
[20:00:37] <ssi> that's how I write most of my lathe programs
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[20:00:38] <kfoltman> I'm using grbl at the moment, it doesn't do those things :)
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[20:00:54] <kfoltman> going to switch to linuxcnc at some point, but don't have spare hardware to run it yet
[20:00:54] <ssi> lol
[20:01:31] <kfoltman> plus, what's the point of writing subroutines in ancient language?
[20:02:11] <ssi> that's an angle I have zero interest in arguing :)
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[20:04:57] <kfoltman> I have to spend some time anyway, either on learning or writing higher-level tools, and gcode's suckage is not going to disappear after I learn it :)
[20:06:36] <ssi> sure... I'm not trying to piss on what you've done
[20:06:39] <kfoltman> besides, if the basic toolpath generation code is working, then adding DXF import might be a logical next step (except it still requires some major effort to generate optimal toolpaths etc.)
[20:06:50] <ssi> but if I ever get around to doing something like this, I'll probably start with dxf
[20:07:05] <ssi> optimal would be nice, but working is a good first step :)
[20:07:31] <kfoltman> of course :)
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[20:07:43] <ssi> so the other thing you're probably going to want is some sort of verification and/or simulation
[20:07:50] <ssi> which is tough, especially without a ui
[20:08:01] <kfoltman> I'm not rejecting the idea of an UI
[20:08:13] <kfoltman> or at least different kinds of output besides gcode
[20:08:46] <ssi> yeah it could be as simple as drawing a png of the toolpath it generated
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[20:42:28] <ssi> ok, so I flashed my spare 5i25 to g540x2 firmware
[20:42:43] <ssi> with that '25 in the system, motion is working again
[20:42:52] <ssi> so it looks like I did manage to kill the other 5i25
[20:43:04] <ssi> I wonder if I just killed one of the bus switches
[20:43:15] <ssi> cause it's not completely dead, some of it still works
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[20:47:33] <kfoltman> how did you kill it?
[20:48:52] <ssi> sheer ignorance :)
[20:49:27] <kfoltman> are those signals on DB25 directly connected to an FPGA?
[20:49:28] <ssi> I am switching my plasma table to ohmic sensing instead of floating head, and I neglected a relay to switch the ohmic sensing line
[20:49:35] <ssi> through a 5v bus switch
[20:50:05] <kfoltman> so you got plasma-level voltage across FPGA pins?
[20:50:11] <ssi> something like that, yeah
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[20:50:47] <kfoltman> sucks
[20:51:00] <ssi> the cap isn't directly connected to the electrode, but it does likely pick up all sorts of coupled nastyness
[20:51:17] <ssi> it doesn't look like there was any significant current, cause there's no evidence of physical damage
[20:51:39] <kfoltman> well, I suppose the voltage is all it takes to destroy the transistors in the IOB
[20:51:45] <ssi> yeah I'm sure
[20:51:51] <kfoltman> they die from much less
[20:52:05] <ssi> I'm just not sure if I killed the actual IOB, or the bus switch
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[20:53:29] <kfoltman> ahh wait, I misread what you typed earlier - so there's a 5V level shifter in between the FPGA and the DB25? still, this kind of voltages can probably jump the gate easily
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[20:53:54] <kfoltman> of a MOSFET
[20:53:55] <PCW> You probably want at least an opto isolator between the Ohmic sensor and the 5I25
[20:54:09] <ssi> PCW: I'm going to put a relay in
[20:54:14] <ssi> energize it only when I'm donig a probe move
[20:54:16] <kfoltman> PCW: 'at least'?
[20:54:27] <ssi> PCW: you think it's likely a dead bus switch rather than the fpga?
[20:54:33] <ssi> I can probably repair it :)
[20:54:43] <PCW> neither ground nor sense are really safe
[20:54:50] <kfoltman> ssi: it's not like you have anything to lose at this point, apart from time
[20:54:59] <ssi> exactly
[20:55:19] <ssi> PCW: you think an optoisolator would survive?
[20:55:20] <kfoltman> losing a card worth 100ish euro would suck
[20:55:21] <PCW> often its just the bust switch (if current is limited)
[20:55:33] <PCW> busted switch?
[20:55:45] <ssi> survive the crud on the torch cap I mean
[20:56:08] <ssi> I don't even really know what that looks like tbh... I've determined that this isn't an HF start machine, so it's probably just whatever couples from the 300-400V arc voltage
[20:56:18] <ssi> I have a friend coming over with a 1.3kv scope probe tonight
[20:56:47] <PCW> use a .5 MA opto, 24V and 1 50K 2W resistor
[20:57:09] <ssi> hm
[20:57:30] <PCW> that will survive most anything
[20:57:39] <JT-Shop> ssi, what's broke on the HNC?
[20:57:45] <ssi> 0.5 milliamp opto?
[20:57:58] <ssi> JT-Shop: the pneumatics that run the turret
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[20:58:24] <PCW> so call high sensitivity OPTO
[20:58:26] <JT-Shop> did you see my post when I replaced all the o rings in my CHNC turret?
[20:58:37] <JT-Shop> or is your air motor shot?
[20:59:01] <ssi> JT-Shop: no I didn't... the air motor is fine. I had a shuttle valve break, and I replaced it at great expense
[20:59:07] <ssi> JT-Shop: reassembled everything and it doesn't work correctly
[20:59:17] <ssi> and I'm stupid when it comes to pneumatics
[20:59:34] <ssi> at this point I'm willing to fly to pick up someone and feed them beer and pizza to help me fix it :(
[20:59:49] <ssi> it's been a year and a half since it broke
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[21:01:10] <DaViruz> pick me pick me!
[21:01:23] <ssi> if you can fix it, lets do it :)
[21:01:25] <JT-Shop> mmm beer and pizza
[21:01:26] <DaViruz> but wait till the RV is finished ;)
[21:01:46] <ssi> that'll be a long wait :(
[21:02:00] <DaViruz> maybe an rv isn't optimal for transatlantic flight
[21:02:10] <ssi> no, not optimal. But it's been done
[21:02:15] <DaViruz> oh?
[21:02:20] <ssi> yep
[21:02:22] <DaViruz> scotland - canada?
[21:02:32] <ssi> australia -> wisconsin, and then back the long way
[21:02:35] <ssi> twice
[21:02:37] <ssi> in opposite directions
[21:02:56] <DaViruz> oh
[21:03:12] <DaViruz> i was specifically referring to the atlantic ocean though
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[21:03:21] <ssi> pretty sure you have to cross the atlantic to do that
[21:03:44] <ssi> holy crap he's flown it to the south pole
[21:03:54] <ssi> http://www.southpolestation.com/news/rv4/rv4.html
[21:03:57] <DaViruz> i'm pretty sure it's way shorter to cross the pacific?
[21:04:08] <ssi> you can't circumnavigate the globe without crossing the atlantic
[21:04:09] <JT-Shop> http://www.linuxcnc.org/index.php/english/forum/30-cnc-machines/2697-rebuilding-a-hardinge-chnc-turret
[21:04:12] <ssi> and he's actually done it THREE Times now
[21:04:19] <ssi> http://www.airdromeaeroplanes.com/jonjohanson.html
[21:04:28] <DaViruz> oh i didn't see "the long way" part
[21:05:23] <JT-Shop> do the photos show up in that post?
[21:05:31] <ssi> no :(
[21:05:59] <ssi> I did take the turret off while I was doing this
[21:06:01] <ssi> and I wish I hadn't
[21:06:07] <DaViruz> ssi: i didn't realize an rv had that kind of range
[21:06:09] <ssi> it may not have gone back together correctly
[21:06:16] <ssi> DaViruz: he has a pile of ferry tanks in order to do it
[21:06:23] <ssi> DaViruz: don't think you can do it with a passenger
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[21:08:31] <DaViruz> impressive
[21:12:32] <JT-Shop> ssi, if you need the photos I can try and find them
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[21:12:42] <ssi> JT-Shop: it could be helpful
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[21:13:16] <ssi> JT-Shop: I had to take apart all the pneumo stuff on the backside of the slide, including that big aluminum manifold that's in there
[21:13:33] <ssi> air motor had to come out, and the shuttle valve on the right rear side of the slide relative to the operator positon was replaced
[21:13:51] <ssi> when I put it all back togehter, I get what sounds like an air leak, that turns into a louder air leak when you command a toolchange
[21:14:07] * Jymmm pokes JT-Shop out of bed into the other window
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[21:16:34] <Deejay> gn8
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[21:32:52] <k6mle_> I am looking for configuration help with SOC RObotics MM160 & MK4 under LinuxCNC
[21:34:18] <k6mle_> My current setup is under Debian, running according to this link: http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?Debian_Wheezy_Linux-Rt_Compile_LinuxCNC
[21:36:56] <k6mle_> This is a 3-axis setup using NEMA 23 steppers.
[21:39:06] <JT-Shop> is there some reason not to use the Ubuntu LiveCD?
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[21:41:03] <LeelooMinai> It's based on 10.04 so maybe it should be renamed to LivingDeadCD:)
[21:42:03] <ssi> lol
[21:42:16] <ssi> LeelooMinai: not sure why you're so hung up against 10.04 :)
[21:42:26] <ssi> it's a dedicated machine that just does cnc, I don't care personally if it's bleeding edge
[21:42:30] <ssi> or even modern
[21:43:02] <LeelooMinai> It's fine I guess if you just want to try it or just use for one purpose, but not so great if your pc will be used for different things involving automation
[21:43:14] <ssi> fair enough
[21:43:36] <ssi> I just buy cheapycheap off lease machines and dedicate one to each cnc machine
[21:43:44] <ssi> and for those I could care less what they're running
[21:44:35] <ssi> I'mma go to the gym before this storm whacks us good... back in a bit
[21:44:47] <LeelooMinai> I already have many computers in my house - don't want to get too crazy with the number of them
[21:44:49] <JT-Shop> ssi I'm not having any luck finding the photos but I have one more place to look in the morning
[21:45:01] <ssi> JT-Shop: ok, no rush. I'm not gonna start looking at the hnc til plasma is sorted out
[21:45:10] <ssi> JT-Shop: when I get to hnc I may just take a pile of pics and get your advice :)
[21:45:18] <ssi> crap I think it's too late on that storm... it's here
[21:45:23] <ssi> I guess I'll wait til it subsides
[21:45:29] <k6mle_> I'm using a box that wasn't needed elsewhere and the 10.04 install was acting real sluggish.
[21:46:05] <k6mle_> Hence the change to Debian.
[21:46:25] <ssi> LeelooMinai: I want to get to where I can run my machines with beaglebones
[21:46:28] <ssi> they're cheap and tiny
[21:46:45] <ssi> but that's aways off
[21:46:50] <LeelooMinai> I saw those mentioned many times when I was installing linuxcnc
[21:47:05] <LeelooMinai> I think machinekit targets those?
[21:47:15] <ssi> ya
[21:47:37] <LeelooMinai> Though you may have problems sticking one of those nice mesa cards into them:)
[21:48:02] <ssi> yeah well that's the part I'm working on :)
[21:48:24] <LeelooMinai> Some kind of fpga add-on board?
[21:48:30] <ssi> yes exactly
[21:48:56] <LeelooMinai> I saw someone here posting a link to ARM board with some fpga on it
[21:49:09] <ssi> yeah there's tons of stuff out there like that
[21:49:36] <ssi> I'm partial to the the bbb, CaptHindsight is partial to the allwinner A20 and has been exclaiming about the bananapi lately
[21:49:37] <LeelooMinai> All the hardware, but software seems to be behind
[21:50:10] <mozmck> I think a board with an ARM and FPGA could be an ideal control board.
[21:50:32] <LeelooMinai> Yes, if one could run nice real time os on it with available software...
[21:51:16] <mozmck> Yes. Xenomai is available on many ARM chips and gets close to rtai.
[21:51:16] <ssi> yeah i agree
[21:51:19] <ssi> these are things I want :)
[21:51:32] <LeelooMinai> Anyone here tried to interface to all those different Chinese calipery hardware?
[21:51:35] <ssi> the one hurdle with the bbb is opengl
[21:51:44] <mozmck> I think Xenomai is the main rt system used on the BB
[21:51:46] <ssi> LeelooMinai: I've never done it, but I've read about doing it
[21:51:49] <ssi> mozmck: yes, it is
[21:52:07] <LeelooMinai> My calipers and indicator have a place for some weird 4-pin connector
[21:52:19] <LeelooMinai> While scales use usb, so also 4 pins
[21:52:41] <LeelooMinai> Cannot find those connectors anywhere though
[21:52:42] <ssi> LeelooMinai: http://www.yadro.de/digital-scale/protocol.html
[21:52:45] <mozmck> I think the opengl problem is because of no/bad video drivers?
[21:53:01] <ssi> mozmck: I dunno if the chip has any reasonable hardware video accel
[21:53:12] <ssi> but honestly I dont' care that much about the opengl preview
[21:53:13] <LeelooMinai> Hmm... maybe I will just solder some more normalish connector to those pads or something
[21:53:27] <ssi> in fact I want to look into machinekit and see how the web control stuff works
[21:53:29] <LeelooMinai> Or even wires with connector on the end
[21:53:54] <Connor> LeelooMinai: So, why do you have a DRO connected to the Z ?
[21:54:15] <LeelooMinai> Well, I just connected them to all 3 axis
[21:54:30] <mozmck> yes, a remote interface is a neat idea, but I would want a local one on a machine.
[21:54:33] <LeelooMinai> To have some data I guess
[21:54:34] <ssi> LeelooMinai: they're not really necessary, but you won't regret having them :)
[21:54:43] <Connor> You going to try to use them for closed loop to LinuxCNC ?
[21:54:56] <Connor> not sure they'll refresh fast enough for that.
[21:55:17] <LeelooMinai> Connor: I may use them in whatever way will make sense - once I fogure out a good way to interface to them
[21:55:32] <ssi> LeelooMinai: the info is out there
[21:55:47] <DaViruz> homing could be one use
[21:55:52] <LeelooMinai> Yes, I read that. I am not worrying about protocol and EE part of it much.
[21:56:00] <ssi> LeelooMinai: have a picture of the connector?
[21:56:18] <LeelooMinai> Well, I saw someone selling a kit for that, but $150:)
[21:56:21] <LeelooMinai> Just a sec
[21:56:22] <DaViruz> or rather the absence of homing
[21:56:36] <ssi> "Fast: higher reading rate. Normally about 3 / second, in fast mode about 50
[21:56:44] <ssi> yeah that's defintiely not fast enough for closed loop
[21:56:44] <LeelooMinai> This is much cheaper I see: http://littlemachineshop.com/products/product_view.php?ProductID=1990
[21:57:08] <LeelooMinai> The rectangular part is the one that is weird and I could not find
[21:57:17] <ssi> yeah I dunno about that
[21:57:32] <ssi> I'd probably just solder to the pads, hackyness be damned
[21:57:52] <LeelooMinai> It just slides onto 4 pads about 1mm or maybe a bit more apart
[21:58:00] <LeelooMinai> That are directly on the pcb
[21:58:52] <LeelooMinai> But even this one $17 + postage for one - that's not a good price
[21:58:55] <ssi> I personally hate those cheap scales... they don't work very well
[21:59:23] <LeelooMinai> aliexpress has also glass ones but they are at least 3x the price
[21:59:38] <ssi> you don't really need glass scales with ballscrews
[21:59:50] <ssi> if you want some feedback, a shaft-mounted encoder on the stepper is a reasonable option
[21:59:59] <ssi> I like that option a lot for ultra-precise homing
[22:00:03] <LeelooMinai> If it does not skip, yes
[22:00:14] <LeelooMinai> I guess if it skips it's a fail anyways
[22:00:29] <ssi> the encoder will let you fault if it skips
[22:00:38] <ssi> without the encoder you have no way of knowing
[22:00:53] <LeelooMinai> Have a link to how such an ancoder looks?
[22:00:53] <Connor> ssi, scales gives you better precision. Backlash be damned, screw pitch accuracy be damned.
[22:00:55] <ssi> the only thing the encoder doesnn't buy you is detecting lost motion in the axis mechanics themselves
[22:01:07] <LeelooMinai> Can they just be attached to the end of the stepper (I have shaft on both sides there)
[22:01:14] <mozmck> yes
[22:01:20] <ssi> yep
[22:01:35] <LeelooMinai> Hmm
[22:01:36] <Connor> You CAN do closed loop with steppers..
[22:01:49] <LeelooMinai> Using back emf?
[22:01:54] <Connor> use them in velocity mode vs step mode.
[22:02:10] <Connor> but, they can't make up for lost steps still.
[22:02:26] <ssi> LeelooMinai: something like this
[22:02:27] <ssi> LeelooMinai: http://www.evarobotics.com/images/Products/FW-A002_6.jpg
[22:02:44] <LeelooMinai> Right, I though something like a scale would be nicer as it is detached from the stepper completely
[22:02:49] <LeelooMinai> thought*
[22:02:53] <ssi> it is nicer
[22:03:01] <ssi> but those cheap scales are less nice even than a shaft encoder
[22:03:03] <Jymmm> LOL, jsut pretend steppers can't do closed loop and save yourself some grief. That has beena very long and repeated line of conversation for years and years on here.
[22:03:08] <CaptHindsight> the problem with the ARM boards has been too high a price for too low power and lack of FPGA
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[22:03:38] <Connor> The BEST setup is Scales, and encoders both. Scales for position, encoder for PID and velocity control.
[22:03:51] <Connor> again though, steppers and closed loop are kinda a BS thing.
[22:03:52] <ssi> Connor: at that point you might as well run servos
[22:03:52] <CaptHindsight> Samsung and Marvell won't sell anyone their good parts unless you want to buy 1Million
[22:04:10] <Connor> ssi I didn't say anything about steppers vs servo's in that sentence. :)
[22:04:29] <ssi> and honestly for LeelooMinai's purposes, she's better off just running it purely as an open loop stepper machine
[22:04:37] <Connor> yup.
[22:05:05] <ssi> but I understand that, having already mounted them, she's not going to want to just abandon them :)
[22:05:12] <ssi> I just don't think they're going to be terribly useful
[22:05:15] <LeelooMinai> Hmm, some of those encoders are more expensive than the stepper motors I have
[22:05:20] <CaptHindsight> Freescale imx6, Allwinner and realtek ARM soc's all have kernel source but the one people seemed to pick for cnc is the way overpriced TI BBB
[22:05:27] <ssi> LeelooMinai: I've used some that work well that are about $25 apiece
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[22:05:39] <ssi> LeelooMinai: and ideally you'll want mesa gear to be able to count the quadrature
[22:05:51] -!- asheppard has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds]
[22:05:53] <CaptHindsight> $45 for a BBB and ~$100 for an IO board
[22:06:06] <ssi> (bear in mind that when the good cap'm says "way overpriced" he means $11)
[22:06:08] <LeelooMinai> I have mesa pcie kit in plans
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[22:06:32] <LeelooMinai> The bob I have is just plain one and has only I think 5 or 6 inputs
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[22:06:40] <CaptHindsight> x86 boards cost less
[22:07:03] <ssi> LeelooMinai: you're planning on a 7i76 kit, right?
[22:07:12] <LeelooMinai> Yes, the stepper one
[22:07:19] <ssi> it may not be capable of counting multiple axes worth of encoders
[22:07:23] <CaptHindsight> ARM is overpriced vs x86
[22:07:24] <LeelooMinai> plus that 5i25 I think board
[22:07:27] <ssi> typically only servo systems use encoders
[22:08:02] <ssi> PCW: can the 7i76 be set up to count encoders on the field IO?
[22:08:03] <LeelooMinai> Hmm... maybe I don't want those encoders anyways? :)
[22:08:15] <ssi> LeelooMinai: you honestly don't need the encoders or the scales
[22:09:13] <LeelooMinai> I will leave the scales as they are already there and are a good sanity feedback I guess
[22:09:29] <mozmck> CaptHindsight: but doesn't x86 need a lot of extra chips compared to ARM? Is the overall cost actually more?
[22:09:42] <ssi> LeelooMinai: my concern is that the lack of speed is going to make them so that they aren't even useful for fault finding
[22:10:01] <ssi> LeelooMinai: if the axis can jog farther than your follow error in the amount of time it takes the scale to update, the axis will fault when it shouldn't
[22:10:31] <LeelooMinai> ssi: You mean lack of speed of the scales itself or getting data from them?
[22:10:46] <ssi> LeelooMinai: is there a practical difference between those two things? :)
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[22:11:18] <LeelooMinai> I would say yes - the first is show-stopper, the other one can make them still useful - just not for real-time loop
[22:11:26] <ssi> from the page I linked you earlier: "Fast: higher reading rate. Normally about 3 / second, in fast mode about 50"
[22:11:51] <ssi> if it has a fast mode, 50hz is pretty slow... 20ms. that's 20x your servo loop
[22:11:58] <ssi> if not, 3Hz is ridiculously slow
[22:12:01] <ssi> 333ms is an eternity
[22:12:36] <LeelooMinai> I can still use them for, say, homing
[22:12:49] <ssi> yes, precision homing would be a fair use for them
[22:12:59] <DaViruz> homing without movement would be nice. almost like a absolute linear scale machine
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[22:13:16] <ssi> i dunno if linuxcnc is capable of referenced homing without moving like that
[22:13:23] <ssi> might could be added if you're clever with code
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[22:13:49] <ssi> and I dunno about the chinese scales, but my glass scales have to be moved a few inches before they pick up reference marks to have absolute position
[22:13:58] <DaViruz> i like the heidenhain scales that have unique index marks every 10mm or so
[22:14:01] <LeelooMinai> Right, all I need is just get the current absolute position to the pc and the rest should not be too difiicult
[22:14:27] <ssi> LeelooMinai: maybe! linuxcnc is setup to do precision homing using indexes, not absolute position data
[22:14:41] <ssi> it may take some exotic hal at minimum, or code hackery at workst
[22:14:42] <DaViruz> those digital caliper type deals are truly absolute
[22:15:07] <DaViruz> the cheap ones don't tend to hold the zero very well though
[22:15:08] <LeelooMinai> But those indexes just mark some distance between them, right?
[22:15:10] <ssi> LeelooMinai: not trying to be negative, just thinking of pitfalls...
[22:15:41] <ssi> LeelooMinai: well with homing, the way linuxcnc is written currently is it finds a switch closure, backs off that switch, and then attempts to find the next index pulse of an encoder
[22:15:51] <MrHindsight> mozmck: x86 is SOC or cpu and one hub, with higher part count and board size than ARM SOC boards, and higher BOM, the ARM boards just have higher profit margins or are made so inefficiently their prices are higher
[22:16:43] <LeelooMinai> But they are kind of popping out like mushrooms after a rain recently - the prices should be better and bettter
[22:17:27] <ssi> most of them are under the $50 price point; as far as I'm concerned price isn't an issue. For hobbyist class CNC, I'm not concerned about pinching pennies like that
[22:17:39] <ssi> if I was buying a million of them I'd be more concerned
[22:18:08] <MrHindsight> the Allwinner and Mediatek dual core ARM soc's are ~$6
[22:18:27] <ssi> and the ti is $11. Sure it's almost twice as much, but that's still FIVE DOLLARS.
[22:18:47] <mozmck> what about the imx6? it looks like a pretty good chip
[22:18:59] <ssi> mozmck: I have an imx6 based board here; haven't done much with it yet
[22:19:04] <MrHindsight> whats on the BBB IO board for ~$100?
[22:19:16] <ssi> I don't know which io board you're talking about
[22:19:21] <ssi> there are dozens out there
[22:19:31] <ssi> I've got fpga boards that I put together for $30 apiece
[22:19:34] <mozmck> If I had time I've thought the xilinx zync or the altera equivalent could be interesting.
[22:19:43] <LeelooMinai> The simple bobs are just lot's of optocouplers and connectors
[22:19:55] <MrHindsight> the imx6 ranges from ~$10 - $30 depending on number of cores, speed and temp range
[22:20:34] <MrHindsight> mozmck: the ZYNQ never came down in price and has no GPU
[22:21:09] <mozmck> I see.
[22:21:28] <mozmck> so an ARM with separate FPGA will be better.
[22:21:42] <ssi> mozmck: probably
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[22:22:01] <MrHindsight> I just need to give a BOM and gerbers to the ARM board makers in China that have all those arm9, 2550, avr etc etc boards
[22:22:01] <MrHindsight> they'll make it and keep the price down
[22:22:34] <mozmck> the issue with 5 dollars is that the final price needs to be roughly 4x the parts cost, which means $20 difference in final price
[22:23:01] <ssi> mozmck: i'm talking about bbb, which exists already and is $45
[22:23:14] <ssi> yes, it costs more than a $35 raspi, but it's a better machine
[22:23:18] <ssi> and that's ten dollars
[22:23:35] -!- asdfasd has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds]
[22:23:45] <ssi> as for the fpga board, the fpga in particular I need to use is $15.60 in single qty
[22:23:51] <ssi> these aren't big numbers
[22:23:58] <mozmck> yes, true, but it is not ideal it seems either, and the price is going up $10 or $15
[22:24:02] <MrHindsight> in China $5 would be a nice margin for a $50 board
[22:24:26] <mozmck> I guess as qty goes up the margin can go down.
[22:24:28] <ssi> it's getting very frustrating having this argument
[22:25:08] <ssi> I'm talking about trynig to do something right now with hardware that exists right now which I have in my possession
[22:25:25] <MrHindsight> what wrong with the BBB?
[22:25:27] <ssi> telling me that i can't or shouldn't do it because you want to have someoen else make something slightly cheaper in the future isn't really germane
[22:27:28] <ssi> ok leaving now for real.. back later
[22:27:29] <mozmck> I haven't told you any such thing...
[22:27:33] <ssi> mozmck: not you :P
[22:27:46] <MrHindsight> BBB + ~$100 overcoat + machinekit
[22:27:57] <MrHindsight> done
[22:28:18] <ssi> I don't know where your $100 comes from, or how you're going to avoid having the same amount of IO hardware with whatever magic two dollar chinese soc you want to use
[22:28:46] <ssi> it's like saying that your car is cheaper and better than my car because my car needs $600 worth of tires
[22:28:52] <MrHindsight> isn't that the beboperer board price?
[22:28:58] <ssi> I have no clue
[22:29:04] <ssi> I intend to make my own io hardware
[22:29:39] <MrHindsight> I'm just passing along info and observations
[22:30:15] <ssi> I haven't seen any info other than how shitty and expensive you think ti's soc is
[22:30:46] <ssi> sure it's expensive
[22:30:55] <ssi> it's literally ones of dollars more than the chinese soc
[22:31:01] <ssi> but it's also proven and documented
[22:31:03] <ssi> which I rather enjoy
[22:31:14] <ssi> the reason the raspi is a joke in my mind is the completely closed broadcom soc
[22:32:19] <ssi> I'm sorry for getting irritable about it... I just want to make something happen, and i feel like you've gone out of your way to undermine it
[22:32:22] <ssi> for a long time now
[22:32:41] <ssi> I've come to terms with the fact that I'm on my own on this particular project, but I guess now I'm just that much more determined :(
[22:35:04] <MrHindsight> http://uk.farnell.com/circuitco/bb-bone-bbpr-01/board-beaglebone-bebopr-cape/dp/2281608 only price I could find
[22:35:15] <MrHindsight> unstable internet connection today
[22:35:35] <ssi> that's not the kind of io board I'm interested in
[22:35:54] <ssi> plus doesn't it have a pile of pololus on it?
[22:36:15] <ssi> $100 for io plus stepper drivers doesn't seem THAT expensive
[22:36:40] <ssi> for reference, charles steinkeuhler's CRAMPS kit is $60, and he's putting those together in small qty by hand
[22:36:59] <MrHindsight> http://sourceforge.net/p/emc/mailman/emc-users/thread/CADq47t%2B3U2pfOaof%2BBhAoOdJM54tA%2BjDc_7gQHFi2b%2Bqzad_9g%40mail.gmail.com/#msg32498596 news today
[22:38:05] <ssi> that's closer
[22:38:16] <ssi> I don't know what etherCAT is tho
[22:38:27] <ssi> ethernet based fieldbus
[22:38:49] <ssi> I wonder if those need full phys
[22:38:51] <ssi> cause those cost money
[22:39:12] <kfoltman> there was this webpage with gazillion different breakout boards for bbb
[22:39:24] <kfoltman> for machinekit etc.
[22:39:31] <ssi> the board I'm looking at is literally going to be a $16 in single qty fpga, two bus switches or level shifters, some power supply hardware, and two idc headers
[22:39:32] <kfoltman> http://blog.machinekit.io/p/hardware-capes.html
[22:39:39] <k6mle_> Anybody have successful experience with the SOC Robotics stuff?
[22:39:53] <ssi> raw component cost minus pcb should be in the vicinity of $30-35 in low qtys
[22:40:08] <mozmck> ssi: that sounds more interesting.
[22:40:09] <ssi> but again, I dont' care about the cost
[22:40:27] <ssi> mozmck: what I want is a BBB instead of a $200 tigerdirect dell optiplex
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[22:40:31] <ssi> mozmck: with a mesa card.
[22:40:47] <kfoltman> ssi: me too
[22:40:49] <ssi> mozmck: since bbb has no pci or pcie, that means a cape that's like a mesa 5i25 but not quite
[22:41:01] <mozmck> I see. What about isolation?
[22:41:03] <ssi> this has been done, pcw did it for the cubie
[22:41:14] <ssi> but for whatever reason, nobody wants to do it for the bbb
[22:41:18] <ssi> so I'm going to have to do it myself
[22:41:24] <mozmck> why not use the cubie?
[22:41:26] * kfoltman would use a cape with terminal blocks for step/dir and some input and nothing else
[22:41:29] <ssi> because I don't want a cubie :P
[22:41:34] <mozmck> ok :)
[22:41:36] <ssi> kfoltman: such things exist already
[22:41:55] <ssi> mozmck: because bbbs are ubiquitous as hell, because I've done a ton of work with them, I've bought seventy of them in the last five months
[22:42:03] <mozmck> are you going to have opto-isolation for inputs?
[22:42:05] <ssi> mozmck: because I understand the soc and the device tree for it
[22:42:05] <kfoltman> seventy!
[22:42:16] <mozmck> makes sense.
[22:42:22] <ssi> mozmck: it'll have exactly the same isolation that a 5i25 has
[22:42:27] <ssi> mozmck: ie, mostly left up to the daughterboards
[22:42:46] <ssi> kfoltman: yes, I built some environmental control systems for a client based on them
[22:42:48] <mozmck> ok, so it will need daughterboards as well then.
[22:42:58] <ssi> mozmck: yes, but standard off the shelf mesa daughterboards
[22:43:05] <mozmck> I see.
[22:43:08] <ssi> which cram a pile of functionality into a relatively inexpensive breakout
[22:43:18] <ssi> cost will be similar
[22:43:22] <CaptHindsight> http://www.zedboard.org/product/zedboard
[22:43:32] <kfoltman> ssi: http://probotix.com/breakout_boards/ the $69.95 one looks kinda good, maybe a bit expensive but good
[22:43:34] <ssi> talking $250 total for everything involved to run a six axis servo machine with a ton of io
[22:44:00] <kfoltman> http://probotix.com/index.php?view=product&path=16&product_id=204 that one
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[22:44:20] <ssi> kfoltman: http://shop.steinkuehler.net/products.php?2
[22:44:24] <ssi> I have one of those
[22:44:26] <ssi> haven't built it yet
[22:44:35] <ssi> but all this stuff is toy stuff
[22:44:37] <ssi> 3d printer stuff
[22:44:42] <ssi> not what I'm looking for
[22:45:05] <CaptHindsight> the Zedboards are $400 with the two hard ARM cores
[22:45:37] <ssi> steinkuehler's work is great, using the PRUSS for hardware stepgen
[22:45:42] <CaptHindsight> not that much IO but plenty of gates
[22:45:45] <ssi> but I'd much prefer just to use the proven mesa stuff
[22:45:52] <ssi> it's just sooooo much more flexible
[22:47:03] <ssi> so the work involved is designing a board, figuring out which hardware bus to use in place of pci, porting the mesa firmware vhdl to use the new bus instead of pci, and then porting hostmot2 to communicate via that bus
[22:47:07] <ssi> it's a pile of work
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[22:47:52] <kfoltman> ssi: what do you miss, servo motor support?
[22:48:10] <ssi> kfoltman: that's a good example, sure
[22:48:17] <PCW> SPI is supported as a hm2 firmware option
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[22:48:23] <ssi> PCW: awesome
[22:48:37] <ssi> maybe it's a smaller pile of work then :D
[22:48:44] <PCW> (no linuxcnc driver yet but it should be pretty easy)
[22:48:49] <ssi> PCW: I know we talked about this a long while back
[22:49:13] <ssi> PCW: but what's the minimum bandwidth requirements for SPI for full functionality with two superport daughterboards?
[22:49:29] <JT-Shop> well moving the 1" hydraulic hose from where it could not be to where it could be sucked less than I thought
[22:50:17] <PCW> currently without any tricks it working at 50 MHz which is fine for up to medium size systems
[22:50:30] <ssi> ok that'll be fine for getting me started
[22:50:37] <ssi> I may layout a board this week
[22:51:10] <ssi> kfoltman, mozmck: if you guys are interested in screwing with it let me know so I know how many boards to order
[22:51:26] <ssi> I'll get at least ten, but if folks want to play with it I can get 50, there's almost no price difference
[22:51:27] <mozmck> I'm interested.
[22:52:00] <PCW> the 7i90 manual has the SPI protocol details
[22:52:05] <ssi> the fact that we can do it with SPI means we cankeep the hdmi framer
[22:52:15] <kfoltman> ssi: so this is to provide optoisolated, LinuxCNC-compatible I/O for BBB?
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[22:52:30] <ssi> kfoltman: in a roundabout sort of way, yes
[22:52:39] <kfoltman> ssi: with onboard FPGA or?
[22:52:46] <ssi> with fpga, yes
[22:52:51] <ssi> kfoltman: are you familiar with the mesa stuff?
[22:52:53] <kfoltman> and what's the cost?
[22:53:00] <kfoltman> no, I only read about mesa today
[22:53:07] <kfoltman> seems way out of my league
[22:53:12] <ssi> kfoltman: go look at the mesa 7i76, 7i77 plug and go kits
[22:53:20] <ssi> I'm shooting for that exact funcitonality
[22:53:28] <ssi> daughterboards will still come from them
[22:53:29] <CaptHindsight> why pick an ARM soc that can't run a decent GUI?
[22:53:32] <ssi> cost for the host interface will be similar
[22:53:42] <ssi> CaptHindsight: I swear to god I'm not having this argument again :)
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[22:54:15] <CaptHindsight> not an argument, just wondering, I don't care if you pick a sam9
[22:54:53] <ssi> because a bird in the hand is worth two in the minds of an armchair internet engineer
[22:55:05] <CaptHindsight> do most people run headless?
[22:55:43] <kfoltman> ssi: looks a little bit too advanced for my uses (which is basically a wooden crapola CNC router)
[22:55:52] <ssi> PCW: interesting, I hadn't seen the 7i90 before. Is that the one you did to use with the cubie?
[22:56:14] <ssi> kfoltman: don't underestimate the power of hardware step generation!
[22:56:40] <kfoltman> ssi: well, sure, but you don't mount a Ferrari engine in a Ford Ka
[22:56:54] <kfoltman> or, rather, a poorly hacked together tricycle
[22:57:02] <ssi> kfoltman: you obviously haven't met me :)
[22:57:04] <kfoltman> which is what my machine is
[22:57:34] <ssi> kfoltman: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tCD1cf1jG5E
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[22:57:43] <PCW> 7I90 is simple SPI/EPP/RS422 serial/SSRemote FPGA card
[22:57:45] <ssi> that's essentially the time I mounted a ferrari engine in a ford ka
[22:57:55] <ssi> PCW: I may order one to develop with
[22:57:58] <PCW> 7I91 is for Cubie
[22:58:32] <PCW> working on 7I90 ssremote code ATM
[22:59:17] <ssi> PCW: silly question, what does LBP stand for?
[22:59:19] <kfoltman> ssi: before I fork out 200 euro for the advanced I/O, I probably need a proper mount for Z axis motor, to begin with ;)
[22:59:35] <PCW> Little Binary Protocol
[22:59:38] <ssi> aha :D
[23:00:07] <PCW> 7I92 is Ethernet version of 5I25 (soon)
[23:00:15] * Jymmm wants Lower Ascii protocol =)
[23:00:16] <ssi> oo
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[23:00:25] <kfoltman> Ethernet!
[23:00:32] <CaptHindsight> LAP?
[23:00:41] <ssi> PCW: ethernet in place of PCI you mean?
[23:01:04] <PCW> Yes
[23:01:08] <ssi> that could be amazing
[23:01:12] <kfoltman> ssi: BTW, I do have some fpga boards
[23:01:17] <PCW> like the 7I80/7I76E
[23:01:33] <kfoltman> ssi: I could try generating step/dir with my laughable basys2, heh
[23:01:34] <PCW> but much cheaper
[23:02:14] <ssi> PCW: btw I wouldn't be stepping on your toes by trying to make a bbb cape that's 5i25 compatible, would I?
[23:02:24] <ssi> PCW: I don't intend to try to make money from it, I just want to diy it as a hobby
[23:04:50] <ssi> whoa, all sorts of neat new products over there
[23:04:53] <ssi> 7i76E looks awesome
[23:05:35] <CaptHindsight> ssi: why don't you gibe the design to one of the low cost board houses in China, then there could be lots of them for cheap
[23:06:29] <ssi> it's not exactly that kind of project
[23:06:53] <ssi> heh actually 7i76E might negate the need for my project :P
[23:06:57] <PCW> You can use the Hostmot2 firmware any way you like
[23:07:55] <ssi> :)
[23:07:58] <PCW> I might get a bit annoyed for support requests that are not for our boards however
[23:08:05] <ssi> oh understandable
[23:09:41] <ssi> ok now I really am leaving... two hours later :)
[23:12:02] <Jymmm> ssi: want me to kick you out of the channel?
[23:15:27] <CaptHindsight> http://linuxgizmos.com/beaglebone-sbc-goes-oem-com-version-coming/ maybe this will drop the prices?
[23:16:52] <CaptHindsight> but no HDMI
[23:21:34] <kfoltman> so, let me get this straight
[23:21:43] <kfoltman> it's like BBB but no HDMI and no flash
[23:21:47] <kfoltman> and yet it costs exactly the same
[23:24:44] <kfoltman> ah, the RevC is not sustainable at the original price due to component price increases
[23:26:42] <kfoltman> anyway, bedtime for me
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