#linuxcnc | Logs for 2014-06-23

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[00:19:31] <ssi> SpeedEvil: nah that decision was made long before the tiredness, I just didn't know any better. Ignorance was the right word.
[00:20:16] <SpeedEvil> ah
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[00:31:33] <XXCoder1> hey ssi dont really know what you meant but glad it helped!
[00:32:00] <ssi> XXCoder1: I need to figure out how to decouple the ohmic sensor line from my IO when I'm not performing a touchoff
[00:32:33] <ssi> XXCoder1: jim colt has some info out there talking about how they use 15kv rated relays in their industrial THCs for that, and I was worried about whether I need to spring for a hv relay
[00:32:57] <ssi> but that's for machines with HF start, which do 10-12kv @ 10-20khz high voltage high frequency for arc starting
[00:33:06] <ssi> the pmax45/65/85 uses a pilot arc that shouldn't see such high voltages
[00:33:39] <ssi> the page you linked was more confirmation that they're non-HF machines
[00:33:41] <SpeedEvil> Several really high voltage resistors, and a buffer opamp
[00:34:02] <ssi> SpeedEvil: nah it's easier than that, just run the line through a relay that gets energized when I need to make a probe
[00:34:12] <ssi> you only need the ohmic sensing when the torch isn't firing
[00:34:47] <ssi> without HF start, it should see 400VDC or so, which is no big deal
[00:35:07] <ssi> and even that isn't directly 400V, it's just whatever couples across the tiny gap between the shield and the nozzle
[00:35:21] <ssi> enough to kill a mesa card apparently :)
[00:35:22] <XXCoder1> SpeedEvil: I linked him this link http://cncplasmabuild.com/buildpage12.html
[00:35:23] <SpeedEvil> That will typically e everal thousand volts
[00:35:25] <SpeedEvil> AIUI
[00:35:35] <XXCoder1> if you wanted context heh
[00:35:58] <SpeedEvil> ah
[00:36:11] <SpeedEvil> I should read backscroll
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[00:36:21] <ssi> and actually since the cap isn't directly connected to the nozzle/electrode, I wonder if you can just use a bleeder resistor at the relay
[00:36:28] <ssi> that should keep the potential down
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[00:39:12] * LeelooMinai finished playing with linuxcnc installation - took only 3 days
[00:39:25] <LeelooMinai> And I am back to what I did originaly and took me 10 minutes:/
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[00:40:49] <tjtr33> dang i hate sizing motors by math http://basctest.files.wordpress.com/2011/11/fm.jpg?w=590
[00:41:22] <ssi> lol
[00:43:16] <XXCoder1> basic algbera
[00:43:47] <LeelooMinai> Basic algebra is 2+2 = 10:)
[00:43:53] <zeeshan|3> tjtr33: haha
[00:44:08] <zeeshan|3> ssi sleep dude
[00:44:19] <XXCoder1> lol
[00:44:30] <zeeshan|3> tjtr33: what is that formula for?
[00:44:37] <zeeshan|3> almost looks like the centroid furmula
[00:46:47] <tjtr33> load inertia
[00:46:59] <zeeshan|3> i was close!
[00:47:27] <LeelooMinai> Hmm... is there a convention for what is X and what is Y axis? I look at some pics and I don't like them because I see X axis as I would look at the machine from the front
[00:47:46] <zeeshan|3> what type of machine
[00:47:57] <LeelooMinai> cnc mill kind-of machine
[00:48:27] <LeelooMinai> I just googled and found a def that X axis is the longest one
[00:48:33] <zeeshan|3> up down is Z right left is X
[00:48:38] <zeeshan|3> and Y is towards you and away
[00:48:41] <LeelooMinai> BUt I guess I don't have to stick to it when configuring linuxcnc
[00:49:14] <zeeshan|3> yep, but when you make programs using cam software, they will follow that convention
[00:49:23] <zeeshan|3> you can always change em :p
[00:49:33] <tjtr33> long is usually X on cartesian mill/ operator usually faces X as his left(X-) to right(X+) ( these are not always true, but common )
[00:50:08] <LeelooMinai> That's how I like it too - having x running from left to right - same as I would look at some x-y graph
[00:50:18] <tjtr33> put left hand out point thumb up forefinger fwd, middle finger right. tips are the + dirs ( ""left hand rule"")
[00:51:00] <LeelooMinai> Yes, that's "normal" - like on math graphs
[00:51:02] <Valen> tjtr33: handy
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[01:00:59] <LeelooMinai> Hmm
[01:01:35] <LeelooMinai> When I test axis in the stepconf wizard, it works fine, but insiide the axis window it sounds like a tractor and goes very slow
[01:01:52] <LeelooMinai> Is this because of some too slow acceleration value I used (I left default there)?
[01:02:27] <XXCoder1> quick question is bosch trim router (colt brand) good for cnc router?
[01:02:36] <XXCoder1> keep in mind my cnc router is very small)
[01:03:20] <LeelooMinai> Does that look sane? http://i.imgur.com/gXypfOV.png
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[01:04:26] <LeelooMinai> When I "test this axis" it sounds good (like a buzzing fly a gues)
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[01:04:56] <LeelooMinai> Not sure why the axis program then is not sounding like that with manual test
[01:05:15] <XXCoder1> do manual have seperate config?
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[01:05:36] <LeelooMinai> I thought that what that stepconf generates will be used then by the axis
[01:06:07] <LeelooMinai> But axis just moves like a snail those steppers
[01:07:21] <LeelooMinai> Latency test does not look wrong too http://i.imgur.com/AX2ijLM.png
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[01:13:03] <XXCoder1> dunno
[01:13:49] <LeelooMinai> This is the hal file: http://pastebin.com/zuCNgjce
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[01:14:13] <LeelooMinai> setp stepgen.0.steplen 1 <- was this supposed to be just one?
[01:14:49] <XXCoder1> HOLY FUCK http://www.ebay.com/itm/Custom-Nema23-Motor-Mount-FK12-Fixed-End-Ballscrew-Support-CNC-Router-DIY-Kit-/221452552334?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item338f99c88e
[01:14:55] <XXCoder1> insanely large
[01:15:03] <XXCoder1> 125 bucks for one mount hah
[01:20:22] <XXCoder1> I like this. quite beefy http://www.amazon.com/Nema-23-stepping-motor-mount/dp/B00FHBFQAG/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1403486397&sr=8-1&keywords=nema+23+mount
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[01:41:19] <XXCoder1> my motors is 56mm apparently
[01:41:28] <XXCoder1> which makes it MUCH harder to find mounts
[01:41:58] <jdh> you have oddball sized steppers?
[01:46:21] <XXCoder1> its nema 23
[01:46:29] <XXCoder1> but there apparently is 56mm and 57mm
[01:46:36] <XXCoder1> I checked mine, its 56mm
[01:46:53] <XXCoder1> dunno if bolts holes is same place
[01:46:56] <jdh> I'm thinking your motor will fit most any mount
[01:47:10] <XXCoder1> thats what I thought too
[01:47:23] <XXCoder1> odd thing though amazon lost a LOT of mounts for nema23
[01:47:31] <XXCoder1> they used to have lots choices but now..
[01:47:50] <XXCoder1> http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=a9_asi_1?rh=i%3Aaps%2Ck%3A%22nema+23%22+mount&keywords=%22nema+23%22+mount&ie=UTF8&qid=1403487963
[01:47:52] <XXCoder1> onlky two
[01:49:16] <XXCoder1> it says 57mm MAX https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-POdRQgF0TS0/UWAlGLn_SYI/AAAAAAAAESc/YHPnAO0pKQY/w1122-h599-no/446610665_094.jpg
[01:50:22] <XXCoder1> it checks out
[01:50:43] <XXCoder1> hole to hole IS 47.14 approx (my caliper is awful)
[01:58:55] <LeelooMinai> Is the 2.5 stepconf considered reliable?
[01:59:16] <LeelooMinai> I mean the wizard
[01:59:45] <LeelooMinai> Cannot get it to generate configuration that works
[01:59:59] <XXCoder1> jdh: got good amazon dial indictor?
[02:00:06] <XXCoder1> I definitely will evemually need one lol
[02:00:54] <jdh> nope, I use cheap chinese ones
[02:01:05] <XXCoder1> where did buy?
[02:01:11] <LeelooMinai> I have this one: http://www.aliexpress.com/item/0-25-4mm-1-x0-001mm-digital-indicator-digital-dial-indicator-electronic-indicator-25-4mm/1736640981.html
[02:01:16] <jdh> HF afair
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[02:01:36] <XXCoder1> thinking bout http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000NPPBVK/ref=pd_luc_sim_02_01_t_lh?ie=UTF8&psc=1
[02:01:53] <jdh> that's not a useful indicator for me.
[02:02:09] <XXCoder1> why?
[02:02:23] <jdh> I have a mituyo digital that was given to me but I have never found a use for it.
[02:02:31] <jdh> I meant the digital one in the ali link he pasted.
[02:02:37] <XXCoder1> oh lol
[02:03:02] * LeelooMinai ponders why everyone assumes she is a he
[02:03:15] <jdh> because it is the interwebbes.
[02:03:26] <LeelooMinai> inter-what?
[02:03:31] <jdh> everyone is a he, especially the ones claiming to be female
[02:03:34] <XXCoder1> male tend to be default gender unfortunately. I try to say "person" or something
[02:04:03] <LeelooMinai> It's kind of dumb though assuming there are no females on IRC
[02:04:13] <jdh> sorry.,
[02:04:16] <LeelooMinai> Here is my photo stream and I am there too: https://www.flickr.com/photos/100017731@N03/
[02:05:29] <LeelooMinai> Hmm, at least my axis move - that't good I guess
[02:05:31] <Jymmm> LeelooMinai: IRC is not anotomically correct
[02:06:14] <jdh> yep. Obviously female
[02:06:21] <LeelooMinai> I was on irc 20 years ago - thought that in the meantime it will get a bit better...
[02:06:38] <Jymmm> LeelooMinai: No it's not.
[02:07:07] <jdh> the gingerbread man and the solder fume sucker give it away
[02:07:13] <XXCoder1> LeelooMinai: cheap version of your dial http://www.amazon.com/AccuRemote-ELECTRONIC-INDICATOR-Functions-conversion/dp/B006YD7G36/ref=sr_1_14?ie=UTF8&qid=1403489198&sr=8-14&keywords=dial+indicator
[02:07:22] <LeelooMinai> Then I got back and sat in ##electronics for past wo years, but I see all chammels are like that
[02:07:26] <jdh> do you find your digital indicator useful?
[02:07:27] <XXCoder1> lee me too, and no, its not any better
[02:07:40] <Jymmm> LeelooMinai: There are far more transgender women on irc than there are born females, make them even rarer.
[02:07:47] <LeelooMinai> XXCoder1: Well, the one I have climes 0.001mm
[02:07:52] <LeelooMinai> claims*
[02:07:55] <XXCoder1> cool
[02:08:11] <XXCoder1> I just want one thats ok on accuracy yet are cheapo
[02:08:14] <Jymmm> LeelooMinai: Maybe if you stuck around, it might have.
[02:08:18] <XXCoder1> I dont need fancy one
[02:08:31] <XXCoder1> Jymmm: nah it wont. theres so many channels
[02:08:37] <LeelooMinai> XXCoder1: There's a lot cheap non-digital ones
[02:08:42] <XXCoder1> it needs culture change
[02:08:55] <XXCoder1> yeah trying to see if theres ok one at under 20 buck
[02:08:57] <LeelooMinai> They may be even better in some cases as you can see the needle moving better
[02:09:12] <jdh> the moving needle is what I want to see.
[02:09:31] <LeelooMinai> It's like with analog clocks - some prefer them to digital:)
[02:09:56] <XXCoder1> I hate digital clocks if they glow
[02:10:03] <XXCoder1> non glowy ones is fine
[02:10:16] <LeelooMinai> Well, in the night that has a plus...
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[02:10:34] <XXCoder1> not for me
[02:10:47] <zee-Lathe> how do you dtermine what 'max_acceleration'
[02:10:53] <zee-Lathe> value should be in the ini for my stepper
[02:11:05] <XXCoder1> my eyes is frankly sensive, I have to brown tape over my alarm clock twice to get it down to reasonable readable level and let me sleep
[02:11:14] <LeelooMinai> Right, I should get back to getting this stepping to work
[02:11:21] <jdh> Z: drop it until it quits stalling
[02:11:40] <zee-Lathe> ??
[02:11:43] <LeelooMinai> Not sure what is going on - the axis test works and then the wizard generates config that behaves differently
[02:11:45] <zee-Lathe> what do you mean drop it
[02:12:05] <XXCoder1> drop to ground. jk
[02:12:06] <jdh> did you do the stepconf wiz thing?
[02:12:23] <LeelooMinai> I checked out 2.5 branch - thought it should be stable
[02:12:33] <zee-Lathe> yea i did
[02:12:51] <zee-Lathe> oh its in the manual
[02:12:53] * zee-Lathe reads
[02:12:57] <jdh> and tested the axes with various accel/speed values?
[02:12:59] <zee-Lathe> RTFM ZEE RTFM ZEE!
[02:12:59] <zee-Lathe> :D
[02:13:04] <zee-Lathe> no, i just made some up
[02:13:05] <zee-Lathe> and stuck with it
[02:13:34] <LeelooMinai> Can I diagnose it inside the axis somehow? Find out why the steppers move so slow?
[02:14:32] <jdh> what is your base thread?
[02:14:48] <zee-Lathe> is that in the ini?
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[02:15:12] <zee-Lathe> base period is 41010
[02:15:24] <Jymmm> LeelooMinai: Honeslty, I don't care. Even if I use 'Dude' that is in a gender neutral role. Actually I do not even lie when ppl bring up gender on irc, it's like they are forcing something upon others.
[02:15:37] <zee-Lathe> currently i set velociy to 1in/s
[02:15:38] <zee-Lathe> er
[02:15:39] <zee-Lathe> 2in/s
[02:15:53] <zee-Lathe> so thats 120ipm. im gonna decrease to 100 ipm, just cause it feels safer :P
[02:16:58] <tjtr33> LeelooMinai, stepper trblshooting: http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/motion/tweaking_steppers.html and more technical desc of influences http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?Stepper_Motor_Speed_Limitations
[02:17:11] <jdh> cool
[02:17:42] <LeelooMinai> tjtr33: I will read that, but what is strange that stepper move fine inside the "test axis" button dialog...
[02:17:46] <zee-Lathe> jdh is that a good value or not
[02:17:47] <zee-Lathe> :D
[02:17:48] <zee-Lathe> the 41010
[02:18:08] <LeelooMinai> SO if that wizards moves them fine, I don't get why it cannot just pass that info to the axis program properly
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[02:18:31] <jdh> yeah
[02:18:37] <tjtr33> LeelooMinai, you talking bout the config building tool? make sure you run _that_ config
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[02:19:11] <tjtr33> resave it and note the name
[02:19:20] <LeelooMinai> tjtr33: The stepconf wizard - or stepgen wizard - the one that is supposed to be run at the beginning I assume
[02:19:44] <LeelooMinai> And it generated a congfig and a shortcut to run it
[02:19:48] <zee-Lathe> so if i have my axis at 100 ipm
[02:19:48] <XXCoder1> not bad http://www.amazon.com/Steelex-D1056-Dial-Indicator-001/dp/B00347A51A/ref=sr_1_79?ie=UTF8&qid=1403489706&sr=8-79&keywords=dial+indicator
[02:19:51] <tjtr33> yes, it saves a config file. then you run linuxcnc and pick a config. pick what you built
[02:19:52] <zee-Lathe> whats a good accel value?
[02:20:11] <tjtr33> oh, if you run the shortcut, check your override sliders
[02:20:12] <LeelooMinai> tjtr33: It generated a shortcut on the desktop that loads it automatically
[02:20:14] <jdh> there is no good single number
[02:20:21] <zee-Lathe> gimme something to start with
[02:20:31] <LeelooMinai> tjtr33: override sliders?
[02:20:31] <zee-Lathe> its at 3.0 in/s^2
[02:20:32] <zee-Lathe> right now
[02:20:38] <jdh> 25
[02:20:54] <zee-Lathe> 25!?!?!
[02:20:54] <zee-Lathe> damn
[02:20:59] <jdh> or, run stepconf and play with it
[02:21:17] <jdh> 25 is probably too high
[02:21:19] <XXCoder1> dammit whats the thing that connects motor to shift called? clamp?
[02:21:25] <jdh> coupler
[02:21:26] <tjtr33> coupler
[02:21:32] <XXCoder1> thanks
[02:21:32] <tjtr33> coke on you
[02:21:52] <LeelooMinai> I set up origin to o and limits to -200mm +200mm on X Y
[02:22:44] <zee-Lathe> okay i changed it to 10 from 3in/s
[02:22:44] <zee-Lathe> 3in/s^2 and now theres no ramping up
[02:22:44] <zee-Lathe> its almost instant
[02:22:52] <LeelooMinai> The stepper moves th axis but super-slow - takes maybe 30 secs to move 5mm
[02:23:26] <jdh> how fast does it say it is moving
[02:25:08] <tjtr33> look at the 3 sliders , are they choking your speed? http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/devel/html/gui/images/axis-2.5.png
[02:25:30] <zee-Lathe> okay i found the limit
[02:25:30] <zee-Lathe> lol
[02:25:30] <zee-Lathe> 30 in/s
[02:25:30] <zee-Lathe> ^2
[02:25:34] <tjtr33> yes as jdh says, theres an on screen speed display _while_ you move
[02:25:41] <LeelooMinai> tjtr33: Ah... yes, the did
[02:25:43] <LeelooMinai> thx
[02:25:44] <zee-Lathe> i dunno, i cant test in step conf
[02:25:46] <LeelooMinai> Now it moves fast
[02:25:48] <zee-Lathe> cause my charge pump is off lol
[02:27:56] <tjtr33> cool!
[02:28:10] <zee-Lathe> okay last question!
[02:28:12] <zee-Lathe> in my ini file,. when i add backlash compesnation
[02:28:19] <zee-Lathe> how do i stop it from being overwritten when i run stepconf
[02:28:22] <tjtr33> nice machine build too
[02:28:39] <jdh> quit using stepconf
[02:28:48] <XXCoder1> this is cheap http://www.ebay.com/itm/STEPPER-MOTOR-MOUNT-NEMA23-FOR-HOMEMADE-CNC-ROUTER-/160379861560?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_210&hash=item2557627a38
[02:28:54] <XXCoder1> but probably twists all over
[02:29:05] <zee-Lathe> jdh but its so fast
[02:29:06] <zee-Lathe> !
[02:29:28] <LeelooMinai> plastic mount - scary:)
[02:29:33] <XXCoder1> indeed
[02:29:33] <tjtr33> its plastic!
[02:29:45] <jdh> I have an entire router made of plastic (same guy)
[02:29:55] <zee-Lathe> lets se if this backlash compesnation works
[02:30:10] <XXCoder1> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Top-quality-NEMA-23-Stepper-Servo-Motor-Mount-Bracket-for-CNC-Router-Mill-/281337075844?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item4180ff1884&vxp=mtr
[02:30:30] <LeelooMinai> I guess a plastic router could route in styrofoam
[02:30:37] <XXCoder1> sigh pretty expensive.
[02:30:47] <tjtr33> paper scissors stone
[02:30:59] <XXCoder1> I can skip X axis since it will have 4x4 wood front I can mount motor to
[02:31:01] <tjtr33> not a way to make a machine tool
[02:31:05] <XXCoder1> but Y axis not so much
[02:31:15] <jdh> it's not a machine tool. It's a cheapass router
[02:31:29] <XXCoder1> but then I can mount it on wood there too. Only Z is serious problemic
[02:31:32] <jdh> (mine that is)
[02:32:15] <XXCoder1> any of you need 6.35 mm to 12mm couplers?
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[02:40:01] <Tom_itx> 6.35 must be 1/4"
[02:40:41] <LeelooMinai> What is a reasonable speed for a cnc like that? I mean, currently it all calculated to about 60mm/min max - isn't that a bit slow? It's like 1mm/sec...
[02:41:51] <XXCoder1> Tom_itx: it is
[02:42:09] <XXCoder1> and I need 6.35mm to 10mm and not 12mm. it was my mistake
[02:42:17] <Tom_itx> mmm
[02:42:26] <zee-Lathe> wooohoooo
[02:42:46] <zee-Lathe> LeelooMinai, for a plasma
[02:42:47] <zee-Lathe> you want a lot!
[02:43:14] <LeelooMinai> ok, I think I left those defaults there for speed and they may not be good
[02:43:45] <XXCoder1> Tom_itx: want any? I can offer em for less than what I bought em for
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[02:44:17] <XXCoder1> guess zee finally got lathe to work well
[02:44:23] <XXCoder1> zeeshan|3: right?
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[02:45:41] <LeelooMinai> O, that's nice - I increased the speed to 10mm/s and now it sounds like some s-f robot, not a tractor
[02:46:32] <LeelooMinai> If I overdo that value, can something, hmm, destructive happen?
[02:47:37] <Jymmm> of course.
[02:48:04] <Jymmm> just go gradually
[02:48:23] <LeelooMinai> I am wondering - maybe the driver will not allow for currents that would destroy the steppers
[02:48:28] <Tom_itx> Jymmm, what'd you find out on your laser?
[02:48:38] <Tom_itx> on the 24" limits
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[02:49:04] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: Others in the know are saying I got a bum laser and let the mfg deal with and replace it.
[02:49:32] <Tom_itx> for the money i probably would too
[02:49:50] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: I have emails with photos into the mfr and rep.
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[02:54:38] <XXCoder1> lol I am an smartass sometimes. amazon I upgraded caliper to better one because it costs more to pay for shipping with other one
[02:55:35] <LeelooMinai> XXCoder1: Which ones did you get?
[02:55:50] <XXCoder1> not final decision yet but http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B005SY2NI0/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=A2FYHGC4NSM6WF
[02:56:04] <XXCoder1> one I got for $8 sucks so hard
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[02:56:27] <XXCoder1> its almost whole mm off, so I have to constantly add 1 mm to everything I check
[02:56:37] <LeelooMinai> Caliper I prefer in digital version actually
[02:57:06] <LeelooMinai> Because you just measure with it and read the value, not like with indicator where you observe it
[02:57:23] <LeelooMinai> as it changes
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[02:57:57] <XXCoder1> problem with that is that those is almost always has bad reviews or pricy
[02:58:18] <LeelooMinai> I have one from ali for 3 years now and it's my favourite tool probably
[02:58:45] <LeelooMinai> I use it a lot
[02:59:06] <LeelooMinai> http://www.aliexpress.com/item/FRS1021-150-Free-shipping-150mm-6-Digital-CALIPER-VERNIER-GAUGE-MICROMETER-Stainless-Steel-with-perfect-package/1781637577.html?s=p
[02:59:11] <LeelooMinai> ^ something similar
[02:59:47] <XXCoder1> oh hey cheaper couplers at aliexpress roo
[02:59:53] <XXCoder1> 5.44 bucks
[02:59:57] <LeelooMinai> They are not bad actually - CHinese need those good to rip-off dimensions for their clones:)
[03:00:52] <XXCoder1> http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Precision-Tool-0-01mm-Accuracy-Measurement-Instrument-Dial-Indicator-Gauge/1914609255.html
[03:01:11] <XXCoder1> its in mm though
[03:01:32] <LeelooMinai> I buy a lot of stuff on ali. I also bought there digital caliper-like slides for all three axis
[03:01:49] <LeelooMinai> I installed them like this: https://www.flickr.com/photos/100017731@N03/14215648455/
[03:02:01] <zeeshan|3> XXCoder1: yes man
[03:02:05] <LeelooMinai> They are 0.01mm only, but pretty cheap - I think $30 per one
[03:02:22] <zeeshan|3> with backlash comepsnation its moving where i want it to
[03:02:31] <XXCoder1> zee nice
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[03:03:56] <LeelooMinai> Can someone give me some example value they have for max velocity on a stepper-based machine?
[03:06:07] <zeeshan|3> LeelooMinai: i have 1.66666 in/s
[03:06:08] <zeeshan|3> right now
[03:06:28] <zeeshan|3> it can be faster, but i'm not running some crazy production machine
[03:06:40] <LeelooMinai> Hmm, I tired 50mm/s - that's similar - seems to work
[03:07:02] <LeelooMinai> I guess for now I will leave it - can always play with those later
[03:07:14] <LeelooMinai> Now I have to, hmm, I guess make it home somehow
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[03:07:46] <LeelooMinai> I have it wired with two NC switches in series per one axis
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[03:08:03] <XXCoder1> LeelooMinai: so you bought exactly this? http://www.aliexpress.com/item/FRS1021-150-Free-shipping-150mm-6-Digital-CALIPER-VERNIER-GAUGE-MICROMETER-Stainless-Steel-with-perfect-package/1781637577.html?s=p
[03:08:07] <LeelooMinai> But I don't have dedicated home switches or anything - had no more inputs anyways
[03:08:20] <zeeshan|3> LeelooMinai: from my understanding of it
[03:08:25] <zeeshan|3> you only need to home to make your 'soft limits' work
[03:08:43] <zeeshan|3> it defines your machine's work space
[03:08:49] <LeelooMinai> XXCoder1: Not sure if exactly exactly, but I think it's almost identical - they probably use the same parts for most of them there
[03:08:56] <XXCoder1> ok
[03:09:02] <XXCoder1> 53 bucks to 34 bucks
[03:09:08] <XXCoder1> you saved me almost 20 bucks
[03:09:23] <LeelooMinai> I saved myself thousands over past 3 years:)
[03:09:24] <CaptHindsight> http://ibin.co/1Qrr32wGDQtb fish tank depth checker with touch probe
[03:09:37] <LeelooMinai> I am into electronics and I buy tons of stuff from there
[03:09:43] <slacko186192> hey, I have never used Cnc. Is it possible to just upload a cad file to a cnc machine and away it goes, or is there a lot of tweaking and hacking involved everytime you make something/
[03:10:02] <zeeshan|3> lol what
[03:10:10] <LeelooMinai> slacko186192: I am pretty sure it is a bit more involved than that:)
[03:10:25] <LeelooMinai> Unless you have AI software or something
[03:10:45] <slacko186192> It seems like by now someone would have figured it out.
[03:10:54] <XXCoder1> lee nice
[03:11:06] <LeelooMinai> slacko186192: They did - like those replicator machines in Star Trek:)
[03:11:28] <slacko186192> anyone know of a video anywhere that shows someone making a cube in cad and then continuting on to do everything on cnc until its done? a walkthrough?
[03:11:29] <mozmck1> LeelooMinai: asking for a max velocity on a stepper-based machine is like asking what size engines people have on their boats/ships!
[03:12:01] <LeelooMinai> mozmck1: I realize that, but since I just moved mu cnc for the first time, I need some approximate values, so I don't do something stupid
[03:12:03] <CaptHindsight> slacko186192: ever use a sewing machine?
[03:12:08] <mozmck1> could be anywhere from .5 hp to 5000000 hp!
[03:12:24] <slacko186192> yes
[03:13:06] <slacko186192> there are very expensive fully automated sewing machines where you select a pattern and size and load a roll of fabric and it will crank out a pair of pants for you.
[03:13:20] <LeelooMinai> Hmm... cannot I somehow "teach" that axis ui how to home by telling it to just move all axis to limit switches and make middle of them the 0,0,0 point?
[03:13:21] <slacko186192> should not be much different with cnc
[03:13:47] <CaptHindsight> well it will cut the patterns out
[03:13:58] <mozmck1> LeelooMinai: It will depend on the machine. I have mine set at 180 in/min, others at 600 in/min. Start with a low value and see how high you can move it.
[03:14:02] <XXCoder1> sewing machine is very standardized
[03:14:06] <XXCoder1> cncs not so much
[03:14:19] <zeeshan|3> LeelooMinai: i was dealing with homing yesterday
[03:14:22] <XXCoder1> it ranges from TINY cncs to ones that could craft you a car
[03:14:29] <XXCoder1> and even larger
[03:14:34] <LeelooMinai> 10 in / sec sounds fast...
[03:14:38] <mozmck1> A sewing machine is also working with flat material of standard dimensions.
[03:14:50] <zeeshan|3> LeelooMinai: say you're touching all your homing switches, that will give you your machine origin.
[03:15:13] <zeeshan|3> which i think its only good for determining the maximum limits your axis should travel.
[03:15:19] <zeeshan|3> (aka machine envelope)
[03:15:19] <LeelooMinai> zeeshan|3: I want home to be in the middle of XY
[03:15:24] <zeeshan|3> you can do that.
[03:15:32] <zeeshan|3> but in stepconf
[03:15:39] <XXCoder1> LeelooMinai: what does it mean "buy all from this seller"
[03:15:40] <zeeshan|3> you'll define the x limit for example as -6 and 6 inches
[03:15:45] <mozmck1> 10 in/sec is fast, but for plasma cutting it's nice for rapids.
[03:16:08] <slacko186192> the material, spindle speed, horsepower, bit profile, and bit material will all come into play.
[03:16:10] <LeelooMinai> XXCoder1: I think if you put more than one item from the seller in the basket you can checkout them all - not 100% sure though
[03:16:28] <zeeshan|3> but what im trying to say is your home limit switches, no matter where they are only define your 'machine movement space'
[03:16:36] <XXCoder1> oh I has 4 items from 4 sellers
[03:16:50] <zeeshan|3> ie the origin of your machine isn't the same origin as your work piece
[03:16:58] <slacko186192> If you want speed, machine a wax positive, use it to caste a ceramic mold, then caste the item you want.
[03:17:24] <slacko186192> ... for 3d stuff.
[03:17:30] <XXCoder1> LeelooMinai: ahh its checkout for specific seller. theres aklso "buy all" for all at once
[03:17:33] <LeelooMinai> Ok, so how do I tell the machine to move until it hits a stop switch?
[03:17:41] <LeelooMinai> XXCoder1: yes
[03:17:57] <slacko186192> so if you have a cad file of a cube, what all do you have to do to cnc machine it?
[03:18:07] <zeeshan|3> LeelooMinai: you should read this page
[03:18:12] <zeeshan|3> http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/config/ini_homing.html
[03:18:15] <zeeshan|3> it talks about that
[03:18:37] <LeelooMinai> I read that I believe, but I don't have dedicated home switches
[03:18:54] <zeeshan|3> then how are you planning to home?
[03:19:06] <mozmck1> slacko186192: you have to convert it to gcode - usually using CAM software which allows you to define the material size, bit size, length, material, cutting speeds and feeds, coolant, etc.
[03:19:21] <LeelooMinai> Well, I have 6 limit switches
[03:19:30] <LeelooMinai> Cannot I just use those?
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[03:20:16] <zeeshan|3> depends on how you wire em
[03:20:33] <LeelooMinai> I have two per aaxis nc in series
[03:20:52] <LeelooMinai> And I have chosen Both X, Both Y, Both Z for inputs
[03:20:55] <mozmck1> If the limit switches are each on a separate input, you should be able to use some for home switches as well as limits.
[03:21:12] <CaptHindsight> http://ibin.co/1Qrr32wGDQtb anyone have s source for telescoping masts like the one in this pic? carbon fiber or aluminum ~1-2" dia. with ~12" sections
[03:21:13] <XXCoder1> also buying http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Hot-selling-40X-25mm-POWER-JEWELER-LOUPE-LED-LOOP-MAGNIFIER-MAGNIFING-GLASS-LIGHTED/792791677.html because its so hard to read some of lego part #s
[03:21:40] <mozmck1> If they are all in series to one input then I don't know.
[03:22:00] <LeelooMinai> Hmm, when I hit "home axis" othing happens
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[03:22:32] <LeelooMinai> Because it thinks it's already homed at 0,0,0
[03:22:39] <mozmck1> CaptHindsight: looks like you get to make some interesting machines.
[03:22:51] <LeelooMinai> How do I do "forced homing" with limit switches?
[03:23:28] <mozmck1> I'm rusty on the setup now, but you will have to have the switches setup as home switches in the INI or hal files.
[03:24:09] <LeelooMinai> Ok, I will run the wizard again - maybe I missed that
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[03:25:17] <LeelooMinai> A, I see - there are Both Limit + Home options
[03:26:18] <CaptHindsight> mozmck1: that one just lifts a 4kg load from tank to tank at counter height ~3ft (1m), but the ceiling height is only ~8ft (2.5m)
[03:27:05] <CaptHindsight> not many telescoping positioners off-the-shelf
[03:27:13] <LeelooMinai> Ok, now it tries to home, but again it's slow as snail
[03:27:52] <LeelooMinai> home search velocity - 0.05
[03:28:08] <LeelooMinai> I guess that's the problem
[03:29:53] <LeelooMinai> oops
[03:30:07] <LeelooMinai> I think I crashed into axis limit
[03:30:24] <zeeshan|3> you should just trigger the axis limit
[03:30:31] <zeeshan|3> to make sure its working :P
[03:30:55] <LeelooMinai> Right, I remember I once run something that was showing green and red buttons on the port and I could just touch the switches and see
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[03:31:38] <LeelooMinai> I think this: http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?Parallel_Port_Tester
[03:32:07] <LeelooMinai> Will install it again and see if my switches are ok
[03:32:11] <LeelooMinai> cd
[03:32:14] <LeelooMinai> oops
[03:34:52] <LeelooMinai> The switches work fine - weird
[03:35:49] <LeelooMinai> Maybe I should choose "home latch direction - opposite"
[03:38:01] <LeelooMinai> "Contains the location of the home switch or index pulse, in joint coordinates. It can also be treated as the distance between the point where the switch or index pulse is latched and the zero point of the joint."
[03:38:07] <LeelooMinai> What "joint" are they talking about?
[03:39:58] <XXCoder1> "We are sorry, but due to legal restrictions, AliExpress is unable to provide escrow services to residents located in Washington State."
[03:40:00] <XXCoder1> BAHHH
[03:40:22] <LeelooMinai> I never useed any escrow there
[03:40:30] <LeelooMinai> And never had any problems really
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[03:40:49] <LeelooMinai> I just use a $200 limit credit card to buy from there:)
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[03:49:53] <XXCoder1> cool
[03:49:59] <XXCoder1> sigh dunno now
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[03:56:13] <LeelooMinai> Hmm, those steppers are pretty hot
[03:57:22] <LeelooMinai> Is outside case 61 deg C ok?
[03:57:47] <CaptHindsight> https://www.flickr.com/photos/100017731@N03/14362017434/in/photostream/lightbox/ looks pretty rigid, you should see some of the pics people post of their concepts
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[03:58:53] <CaptHindsight> LeelooMinai: what did you machine that with?
[03:58:55] <LeelooMinai> I just read a bit about CNCs one day than sat into SolidEdge and designed it - I was afraid of not making it rigid enough
[03:59:17] <LeelooMinai> CaptHindsight: Drill press and a table router:)
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[03:59:53] <LeelooMinai> kind of like that: https://www.flickr.com/photos/100017731@N03/10046651986/
[04:00:09] <LeelooMinai> I know it's not how it's done, but I used carbide bits and it worked
[04:00:32] <CaptHindsight> what are the Y-axis bearing rails sitting on?
[04:01:09] <CaptHindsight> when you're used to wood
[04:01:12] <LeelooMinai> A table? :)
[04:01:35] <LeelooMinai> I am not sure what y-axis bearing rails are... the ones at the bottom?
[04:01:42] <CaptHindsight> are those solids or tube?
[04:02:05] <CaptHindsight> yes
[04:02:11] <LeelooMinai> They are tubes filled with sand and ended with solid blocks of alu
[04:02:16] <LeelooMinai> Or "plugged"
[04:02:34] <LeelooMinai> https://www.flickr.com/photos/100017731@N03/9630753355/
[04:02:44] <CaptHindsight> what's the wall thickness of the square tube?
[04:02:46] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: Still left side, but in case you wee curious http://i59.tinypic.com/2vuzvxx.jpg
[04:02:59] <LeelooMinai> Not sure if that's a good idea, but solid ones were too expensive, so I devised this as a cost saving measure
[04:03:31] <LeelooMinai> As I remember the walls were, hmm, 1/4 imch probably6
[04:03:37] <LeelooMinai> inch
[04:04:15] <CaptHindsight> you could have used steel, but they are fine
[04:05:10] <LeelooMinai> When I was designing it I was trying to avoid still. I used three steel angles, but I was not brave enough to dill zillion of holes in those main tubes in steel
[04:05:18] <LeelooMinai> still=steel
[04:05:30] <CaptHindsight> looks like 1" or thicker vertical supports
[04:06:20] <LeelooMinai> Yes, 1 inch - I decided too make them thick because I was afraid that gantry would twist or something
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[04:08:49] <XXCoder2> argh!
[04:08:56] <CaptHindsight> Jymmm: are you starting to burn stuff?
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[04:08:59] <XXCoder2> dont look like I can order from aliexpress at all
[04:09:12] <LeelooMinai> XXCoder2: Why?
[04:09:19] <XXCoder2> We are sorry, but due to legal restrictions, AliExpress is unable to provide escrow services to residents located in Washington State.
[04:09:19] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: ?
[04:09:44] <CaptHindsight> Jymmm: ^^ the pics (left to right, etc)
[04:09:47] <LeelooMinai> XXCoder2: Simply don't use escrow
[04:09:55] <XXCoder2> how?
[04:10:20] <CaptHindsight> Jymmm: laser working again?
[04:10:40] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: no, those are BAD. Seems I got a bum laser.
[04:10:42] <LeelooMinai> XXCoder2: I am in Canada and never saw that message - did you check some box that you want escrow?
[04:10:47] <XXCoder2> nope
[04:13:49] <LeelooMinai> Hmm...
[04:17:33] <LeelooMinai> XXCoder2: "I went with the storefront cala game as they had positive reviews for their Wilson Elite jersey. Turns out AliExpress won't let you checkout if you live in WA due to Washington State regulations so I sent the seller a message. They suggested I use an address outside WA and use the comments field for where I wanted it to actually go (I have a cousin in Oregon so it wasn't any big deal to me if it ended up there instead). Ultimately USPS
[04:17:33] <LeelooMinai> delivered it to me."
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[04:38:38] <Jymmm> ARGH, I keep setting off the smoke alarm!!!!
[04:46:28] <XXCoder2> lee hmm but I dont know anyone
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[06:19:13] <_abc_> Hello. Can somone please tell what the most recent version of tcl/tk is, which they have on a linuxcnc stock install? I.e. ubuntu lts 10.04 based linuxcnc, presumably updated several times.
[06:19:21] <_abc_> (carefully updated...)
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[06:45:34] <Deejay> moin
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[12:19:33] <ssi> woo, 11 hours of sleep :D
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[12:31:19] <Loetmichel> ssi: btw;: are yiou in any way related to the shredder company?
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[13:18:34] <ssi> Loetmichel: nope!
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[14:31:19] <ssi> lonely in here this morning
[14:31:56] <jdh> we were waiting for you.
[14:32:11] <ssi> been here for two hours!
[14:32:55] <jdh> I thought you went back to sleep.
[14:33:02] <ssi> you thought wrong, sucka
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[14:45:20] <ssi> hey jdh I have a proposition for you
[14:45:48] <ssi> come fix the pneumatics on my hardinge, and I'll subsidize the price of the 602 down to your $1200 :)
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[15:18:21] <jdh> ssi: I'm already back home. Could have diverted through atlanta, but no longer.
[15:19:29] <ssi> booo
[15:21:08] <jdh> and, you never sent me pics.
[15:21:18] <ssi> ok ya got me there
[15:21:48] <jdh> and anything that involves I285 has to be really worth it.
[15:22:00] <ssi> psh
[15:22:19] <ssi> actually I wouldn't use 285 to get to my house from wherever you're coming from
[15:22:29] <ssi> down 85, up 75 is better in my opinion
[15:22:36] <ssi> 285 is slightly SHORTER, but not faster
[15:22:57] <jdh> coming in 20 from the east.
[15:23:05] <ssi> oh well then no 285 that way either
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[15:23:13] <ssi> 20 to the connector and up
[15:23:16] <ssi> shorter AND faster
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[16:49:00] <Connor> ssi: Why you selling your lathe ?
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[16:49:54] <IchGuckLive> hi all B)
[16:50:31] <LeelooMinai> any thoughts of stepper motor temperature? I have DQ542MA Chinese drivers with a switch for holding current (set to half of the max I think now,) and my steppers get to about 62 or so deg C - not sure if that's normal or I should chance some current settings?
[16:50:39] <jthornton> http://www.spyderpalooza.com/ chance to win a Can Am Spyder and help a wounded warrior
[16:50:48] <LeelooMinai> chance=change
[16:50:49] <ssi> Connor: I have three lathes, it doesn't get used, and I need to start trimming down
[16:51:15] <IchGuckLive> LeelooMinai: what vots are on the %42
[16:51:20] <IchGuckLive> 542
[16:51:38] <LeelooMinai> What what? :)
[16:51:43] <IchGuckLive> 24V 36V 48V
[16:51:49] <archivist> LeelooMinai, mint get hot too if not cooled by the machines metalwork
[16:51:53] <LeelooMinai> The PSU is 36V one
[16:51:55] <archivist> mine
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[16:52:07] <IchGuckLive> thats ok at that
[16:52:16] <archivist> hot is relatively normal for steppers
[16:52:38] <IchGuckLive> <- adrees with archivist
[16:52:55] <Connor> agrees
[16:52:58] <LeelooMinai> Well, the thing that worries me, is that the frame acts as a heatsink - will it not change shape a bit if steppers will continuously heat it like that?
[16:53:20] <IchGuckLive> never mind
[16:53:29] <archivist> not enough to worry about
[16:53:41] <IchGuckLive> if you go up to 48V it will cool down to about50Deg
[16:54:09] <LeelooMinai> Hmm... I think some time in the future I will mount therrmocouples on those steppers
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[16:54:23] <LeelooMinai> TO have some data/idea of what happens with them
[16:54:35] <CaptHindsight> LeelooMinai: yes, but not beyond what your linear bearings actually twist and turn
[16:54:59] <LeelooMinai> Do servos heat as much too?
[16:55:05] <archivist> my well mounted steppers only get warm, the one on pillars gets hot
[16:55:40] <LeelooMinai> Did anyone mount cooling fans for steppers? :)
[16:55:41] <Connor> LeelooMinai: Your over thinking it..
[16:55:48] <archivist> servos will run cooler because the only use power under load
[16:56:20] <LeelooMinai> Connor: Well, I am trying to get an idea if to worry - 62 deg C is actually pretty hot if you touch it - almost burning hot
[16:56:26] <archivist> ssi only 3, not enough lathes to call an excess
[16:56:54] <Connor> One thing is.. most good quality drivers will reduce current if the steppers are idle..
[16:56:56] <ssi> archivist: I have three lathes, two of them CNC, and no CNC mill :(
[16:57:09] <Connor> what sort of driver you using ?
[16:57:29] <archivist> I dont like drivers reducing current
[16:57:32] <LeelooMinai> Connor: The drivers I have have a dip switch there to set the holding current to full or half the maximum - that's all (DQ542MA)
[16:57:34] <IchGuckLive> Connor: leadshine clones
[16:58:01] <IchGuckLive> LeelooMinai: you respected RM to Peak
[16:58:01] <LeelooMinai> I just bought most affordable ones for the start - I need to get a sens of all of this first to think about something more fancy (if needed)
[16:58:16] <CaptHindsight> LeelooMinai: not sure what tolerance your bearings and screws have but I use a similar design for machines that hold <10um accuracy and repeatability
[16:58:27] <LeelooMinai> I believe so - I have 3A steppers there - they are pretty big
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[16:58:54] <LeelooMinai> 57BYGH1150003B
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[16:59:02] <IchGuckLive> try to get one down and see igf they stall on load
[16:59:31] <LeelooMinai> Right, I guess I can set the current down
[16:59:54] <LeelooMinai> What are your thoughts on servos in such machines instead of steppers? Does it even make sense to consider them?
[16:59:58] <IchGuckLive> BUT as we all said it is ok at that temp
[17:00:27] <LeelooMinai> I mean - would I gain anything or I should not bother?
[17:00:35] <IchGuckLive> budget is all you need
[17:00:49] <CaptHindsight> LeelooMinai: I rarely use steppers, but it depends on what your machine is for
[17:01:24] <IchGuckLive> i run a 2,5tonn mashine on nema 23 with 30:1 gearing and it works
[17:01:49] <IchGuckLive> no room for nema34 12Nm
[17:01:51] <LeelooMinai> Well, it's really just a hobby CNC "platform" for all sorts of experments with attachments - drilling, millin, using laser to cut things later or make pcb stencils, etc.
[17:02:09] <CaptHindsight> how fast do you need it to go, how accurate etc etc
[17:02:19] <IchGuckLive> you are good to stay your setup
[17:02:45] <LeelooMinai> I would value accuracy more than speed - that's why I used 5mm per rev ballscrews
[17:02:48] <IchGuckLive> LeelooMinai: what board you got or a mesa involved
[17:03:08] <LeelooMinai> I plan to buy mesa 6i25 kit soon
[17:03:14] <IchGuckLive> Ballscrews so you are realy in business
[17:03:27] <LeelooMinai> For now I have MB with parallel port and cheap chinese BOB
[17:03:45] <IchGuckLive> did you consider the 20/25 accuracy gearing-timingbelt makeover
[17:04:00] <IchGuckLive> its actuly the 1,25 divider
[17:04:05] <CaptHindsight> LeelooMinai: I'd work on getting that machine square first
[17:04:27] <IchGuckLive> so 32/40 is also a good kombination
[17:04:41] <LeelooMinai> CaptHindsight: Yes, once I figure out homing, that's my next step. I have those linear scales attached - I was hoping this will help me during sqaeing it
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[17:05:08] <LeelooMinai> IchGuckLive: You live in Europe maybe? :)
[17:05:13] <IchGuckLive> oh did you read the homing in tehe integreter manual
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[17:06:05] <LeelooMinai> I did. But yesterday I forgot I did not cut the end block mout to right size yet and crashed the thing inot one side before it reached the switch:)
[17:06:07] <IchGuckLive> yes europ 400/5 eqels 0.01 precise here with a 20/25 system on it PERFECT setup
[17:06:09] <ssi> IchGuckLive: btw I got all my homing working
[17:06:12] <Connor> Steppers vs Servos is a long time debate.. If spec'd correctly.. Steppers are just fine.
[17:06:25] <ssi> IchGuckLive: gantrykins is no good... I ended up switching to ja4/gentrivkins
[17:06:26] <CaptHindsight> LeelooMinai: what metrology do you have? You seem to get how this works more than most.
[17:06:38] <LeelooMinai> IchGuckLive: I asked because you used k instead of c - I was born in Poland, I would do it sometimes too
[17:06:44] <IchGuckLive> ssi i hacked my own skins now
[17:06:51] <ssi> sounds painful :D
[17:06:57] <LeelooMinai> CaptHindsight: Metrology?
[17:06:57] <Connor> and are easier to use in the long run. Servo's require some sort of reduction most of the time, and you have to tune them. which can be a PITA
[17:07:24] <LeelooMinai> Well, today in the morning I cut that block to size, so soon I will test homing again
[17:08:13] <LeelooMinai> Still lots of things to do later. I would like to build some kind of acrylic or polycarbonate case for it
[17:08:20] <CaptHindsight> LeelooMinai: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metrology
[17:09:20] <LeelooMinai> CaptHindsight: I am just a hobbyist - I worked as a programmer, then picked up EE as a hobby 3 years ago. Also decided I would like to have CNC to get into maybe some robotics
[17:10:27] <LeelooMinai> So it's all new to me, but I read a lot and have some ideas about how those things work
[17:10:40] <CaptHindsight> LeelooMinai: keep "over thinking", that an impressive first machine using just a drill press and router table
[17:11:13] <LeelooMinai> CaptHindsight: Well, I also used a mitre saw with a blade for aluminum
[17:11:33] <LeelooMinai> That's why I tried to stay away from steel - I would have problems cutting it
[17:12:29] <LeelooMinai> I guess I could use an angle grinder with one of those cutof disk - I don't know - I am more comfortable with aluminum
[17:12:49] <CaptHindsight> when you get some measurement tools you can square that up, then replace/improve parts
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[17:13:33] <LeelooMinai> Right, I have dial indicators and those attached linear "callipers" - will use these for now to make it decent
[17:14:45] <LeelooMinai> At some time I will also RE the interface to those scales and maybe will design some kind of readout and get the data into the PC - for now they jsut have small LCD displays
[17:15:42] <LeelooMinai> They were pretty cheap: http://www.aliexpress.com/item/0-150mm-0-01mm-Remote-Digital-Readout-digital-linear-scale-External-Display-5403-150/1083607144.html
[17:16:11] <LeelooMinai> But they also have those glass ones, with better accuracy: http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Free-Shipping-300mm-500mm-Glass-Scale-Linear-Scale-for-Digital-Readout-System-HXX/1550423747.html?s=p
[17:16:21] <LeelooMinai> I thought they may be a bit overkill for now though
[17:16:30] <CaptHindsight> if you're concerned about thermal expansion then you'll be able to figure out encoders and scales
[17:17:27] <LeelooMinai> How about cooling the steppers? :)
[17:17:35] <CaptHindsight> build a cheap interferometer and watch it grow over temp
[17:18:24] <CaptHindsight> you'll see a few microns in Z
[17:18:37] <CaptHindsight> before and after the steppers heat it up
[17:19:14] <LeelooMinai> Right, I guess if this will really become a problem I will think more, but for now I will concentrate on basics
[17:19:38] <CaptHindsight> won't be a problem
[17:20:13] <CaptHindsight> increase the surface area or the rate of airflow across them
[17:20:22] <CaptHindsight> if you want
[17:21:21] <CaptHindsight> unless you use it 24/7 you won't have problems soon
[17:21:53] <LeelooMinai> No, it's not for "production" or anything - just light hobby use
[17:22:24] <IchGuckLive> i only boil the water on a 10hr shift on the plasma
[17:22:47] <IchGuckLive> the steppers are quit cool
[17:23:20] <IchGuckLive> 32meters of movement per sheet about 150 to 180 sheets per shift
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[17:24:50] <ssi> LeelooMinai: god help you when you start learning about scraping iron
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[17:25:30] <LeelooMinai> I actually saw a video about it:)
[17:25:38] <archivist> hot chips flying around the place
[17:26:00] <ssi> LeelooMinai: that stuff fascinates me... being able to make reference flat surfaces without a reference flat surface
[17:26:07] <ssi> or make a dead square without a square reference
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[17:26:36] <LeelooMinai> Well, they guy I watched was using a granite slab for it - what are they called... forgot
[17:26:42] <ssi> surface plate
[17:26:45] <LeelooMinai> Right
[17:26:47] <ssi> that's the way it's done mostly
[17:26:52] <ssi> but read about the history of metrology
[17:26:59] <ssi> people could measure to a millionth of an inch in 1850s
[17:27:02] <ssi> amazes me
[17:27:07] <IchGuckLive> hot chipping on crome iron is good but on Titanium it will burn your shop
[17:27:21] <LeelooMinai> But it seemed laborous - I am really not into things that require a lot of physical effort:)
[17:27:34] <ssi> it's laborious alright... I tried it. didn't like it
[17:27:47] <CaptHindsight> LeelooMinai: and hand lapping
[17:27:54] <ssi> I wanted to see if I could scrape in my clausing lathe
[17:28:00] <ssi> it's a nice lathe but its worn out
[17:28:15] <LeelooMinai> Right, that reminds me that I left the task of making the actual XY table part for my machine for later
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[17:28:55] <LeelooMinai> Because once I looked into some nice aluminum ones (alcoa or something... the ones that are made for flatness), and almost fained when quoted the price
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[17:29:13] <ssi> yeah, mic6 cast tooling plate :)
[17:29:23] <LeelooMinai> O, right, this one
[17:30:01] <LeelooMinai> So I guess that's out of the question now. I am not sure also if I want to drill some holes in that plate, or have those t-slots like I saw or what - I will need to somehow fix anything I will wont to work with
[17:30:15] <LeelooMinai> want*
[17:30:43] <LeelooMinai> Hmm, that homing did not work as I expected - it just ended with limit switch tripping error now
[17:31:04] <LeelooMinai> I thought it should just go the other way after hitting the limit switch
[17:31:14] <IchGuckLive> http://foengarage.de/pcb.jpg LeelooMinai
[17:31:53] <LeelooMinai> O, right, I may try this too, though currently I just etch prototpye pcbs or just order ones from iTead fab
[17:32:36] <LeelooMinai> https://www.flickr.com/photos/100017731@N03/13961452253/ <- those are all designed by me and made in China (pcbs that is), but reflowed at home
[17:32:37] <IchGuckLive> thealch3m1st: Welcome
[17:33:11] <Connor> LeelooMinai: Pic of you machine?
[17:33:34] <LeelooMinai> Connor: https://www.flickr.com/photos/100017731@N03/14215648455/in/photostream/
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[17:33:56] <LeelooMinai> There are more pics in the photostream
[17:34:02] <LeelooMinai> I am on two of them too
[17:34:50] <ssi> LeelooMinai: cnc work is really good for polymaths, which you clearly are :)
[17:34:59] <ssi> LeelooMinai: you have to have skills in a lot of disciplines
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[17:35:26] <IchGuckLive> but not to bee the perfect master nerd
[17:35:27] <LeelooMinai> Yes, I guess programming and EE skills are good
[17:35:31] <ssi> yep
[17:35:47] <IchGuckLive> lots of gardeners use CNC
[17:35:48] <ssi> I'm similar... software and EE by trade
[17:36:03] <ssi> but I've dabbled in lots of fields
[17:36:10] <ssi> https://www.flickr.com/photos/100017731@N03/13576450145/in/photostream/
[17:36:13] <ssi> I like that display... oled?
[17:36:38] <LeelooMinai> I need new things - otherwise after few years I would get bored and depressed
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[17:36:51] <LeelooMinai> Yes, thats a tiny oled - they are pretty cheap from Chine - $4 or so
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[17:37:09] <LeelooMinai> But they are super-nice in terms of contrast and visibility in daylight
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[17:37:13] <ssi> LeelooMinai: last year I designed and built a bunch of bitcoin asic miners
[17:37:23] <IchGuckLive> i got one that caress Basilikum with a cnc to grow faster in his Dr examiin
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[17:37:45] <ssi> this winter I was hired to retrofit a cnc mill for a company that does hydroponics, and then later they had me design and manufacture them an industrial control to run all their environmental systems
[17:38:03] <LeelooMinai> A, those - I used to mine too - that big TV I have there is because one day when bitcoin went to $1000 or so, I found 0.75 BTC ina backup and sold it:)
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[17:38:10] <ssi> haha
[17:38:16] <ssi> I bought a bunch of gold with btc
[17:38:21] <ssi> and still have 11btc kicking around
[17:38:32] <IchGuckLive> ssi: it goes on and one till your worklive ends and beond
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[17:38:33] <ssi> miners are still running, but not making nearly the dent they used to
[17:38:40] <ssi> I have 500GH of asics online
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[17:38:49] <ssi> was quite a setup back in october
[17:38:50] <LeelooMinai> right, I think now even those asics are not that profitable
[17:39:08] <LeelooMinai> But if one had them early at the right time... :)
[17:39:08] <ssi> not anymore
[17:39:15] <ssi> they're still making more than the power it takes to run them atleast
[17:39:22] <Connor> Bit Coins too much like a pyramid scheme IMHO....
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[17:39:28] <IchGuckLive> i will be off of all stuff on 30th Aug this year
[17:39:33] <ssi> LeelooMinai: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BbGW0_1CAAAWQ71.jpg
[17:39:40] <ssi> Connor: just cause you don't understand it :)
[17:39:40] <IchGuckLive> no more CNC or even no WWW
[17:39:49] <ssi> IchGuckLive: where you going?
[17:39:55] <Connor> ssi: No. I understand it.
[17:39:57] <IchGuckLive> in the outback
[17:40:00] <ssi> nice
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[17:40:12] <ssi> Connor: if you understood it you wouldn't consider it a pyramid scheme :P
[17:40:19] <LeelooMinai> I was not very speculative when I mined - just did calculations and knew they will bring some money - at least I have some free GPUs now and made maybe $1k or so, that's all. I am not into gambling.
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[17:40:37] <ssi> LeelooMinai: I gambled a lot of my time, but not so much money
[17:40:55] <ssi> LeelooMinai: I got four chips as samples back in july of last year from a friend, and developed a board and wrote a mining client
[17:40:59] <IchGuckLive> ssi: burningman type
[17:41:10] <ssi> once I had it working, I spent the money I had mined so far to buy more chips
[17:41:27] <ssi> did that twice... then spent $2500 out of my own pocket along with $2500 in bitcoin to buy a bunch of chips, those have been running ever since
[17:41:33] <ssi> and they've earned about $20k total
[17:41:42] <IchGuckLive> ssi chips with couponing you can get some free
[17:42:00] <IchGuckLive> Potato chips
[17:42:01] <LeelooMinai> ssi: That's still a win - and you did some EE design which is interesting imho
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[17:42:07] <ssi> LeelooMinai: exactly
[17:42:22] <ssi> I was a bit too aggressive... I put twelve chips on a board that was 50x100mm
[17:42:34] <ssi> the chips were around 5W apiece
[17:42:37] <ssi> VERY hot board
[17:42:42] <ssi> ended up having blistering and delamination
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[17:43:03] <LeelooMinai> You did not put some active cooling on them?
[17:43:05] <ssi> also it takes about 40A at 0.75V to run 12 chips
[17:43:07] <ssi> yes there's active cooling
[17:43:10] <ssi> https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BbGW0_1CAAAWQ71.jpg
[17:43:10] <IchGuckLive> EE need space around them
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[17:43:34] <LeelooMinai> ssi: Ok, I see you went pretty extreme there:)
[17:43:37] <ssi> so there's 4 x 4 x 12 chips in that picture... 192 chips
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[17:43:39] <ssi> about 1000W
[17:43:53] <ssi> that one server power supply is 80A @ 12V, running the whole thing
[17:44:06] <ssi> it was an interesting ee challenge :)
[17:44:18] <LeelooMinai> And all asics? That must be one crazy hashrate there...
[17:44:24] <ssi> yeah all asics
[17:44:27] <ssi> they're 2.5GH apiece
[17:44:31] <ssi> around 500GH total
[17:44:31] <IchGuckLive> at that amount SDram is the way to go
[17:45:11] <ssi> for reference, video cards do about 0.7GH each, at a cost of about 200W each
[17:45:15] <ssi> these chips do 2.5GH on 5W
[17:45:17] <ssi> pretty amazing
[17:45:47] <LeelooMinai> Yes, the only problem is that more crazy people like you do that and it's not so profitable any more:)
[17:46:01] <ssi> it's definitely harder now
[17:48:29] <ssi> oh another fun thing I did
[17:48:42] <ssi> before I got the asics, I wrote a hasher implementation in verilog, with SPI host
[17:48:48] <ssi> had an fpga on a beaglebone black hashing
[17:49:00] <ssi> not a particularly good fpga for it, but it was a cool proof of concept
[17:49:01] <jdh> dcc send ssi life
[17:49:05] <jdh> <urk>
[17:49:19] <ssi> jdh: I've lived a dozen lives, thank you very much :)
[17:49:54] <LeelooMinai> That's nice. I am designing an STM32 dev board now with Lattice FPGA - at least I was, but now I am getting this CNC to work
[17:50:15] <LeelooMinai> So many things to do, so little time
[17:50:17] <ssi> yep
[17:50:31] <ssi> need to figure out how to become independently wealthy so I dont' have to waste all my time working
[17:50:45] <LeelooMinai> Maybe kickstart something:)
[17:50:51] <ssi> actually I have before
[17:50:55] <ssi> just not something to make me wealthy
[17:50:57] <jdh> yeah, that work thing sucks
[17:51:26] <LeelooMinai> I saw some pretty stupid projects get founded hundreds of thousands of dollars
[17:51:35] <ssi> yeah, that's kickstarter
[17:51:46] <LeelooMinai> And awsome ones that did now make it:)
[17:51:47] <ssi> ours was a record, so not a stupid project, but not a world-changing technology product either
[17:51:48] <DaViruz> solar roadways for example ;)
[17:51:59] <ssi> it was mostly just a good way for us to force our friends and family to give us money :)
[17:52:03] <Connor> ssi yours ? what was it ?
[17:52:12] <LeelooMinai> Dave on eevblog made a video about those roadways
[17:52:18] <ssi> Connor: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/cboehmig/used-for-comparisons-new-album-the-great-divide
[17:52:30] <LeelooMinai> Pointing out how they will not work
[17:53:05] <Connor> LeelooMinai: Roadways ?
[17:53:26] <LeelooMinai> Yes, those hexagonal solar panels in the roads
[17:53:34] <LeelooMinai> With leds
[17:53:38] <Connor> Oh. I thought that was a very neat idea
[17:53:48] <LeelooMinai> In theory maybe
[17:53:56] <ssi> I'm all about alternative energy, when it's sensible
[17:54:00] <ssi> it's just rarely sensible these days
[17:54:14] <ssi> kneejerk environmentalism doesn't do anything for me
[17:54:27] <LeelooMinai> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=obS6TUVSZds
[17:54:33] <LeelooMinai> The title says it all:)
[17:54:45] <ssi> ahaha
[17:54:58] <LeelooMinai> Connor: Do you have by a chance a channel on youtube? I watched some Connor EE channel once
[17:56:20] <Connor> https://www.youtube.com/user/Conno9220
[17:56:24] <Connor> Just that.
[17:56:25] <LeelooMinai> I think he is right though, they seem like a nice idea, but from the practical point, when you calculate all that is involved - maybe be not that great, unless technology gets better in some areas
[17:56:56] <LeelooMinai> O, I see - that's not that Connor then - he was called Connor Wolf
[17:58:03] <LeelooMinai> I also wonder what would drivers really say if someone told them they will drive on glass:)
[18:01:26] <ssi> I've said it before, and I'll say it again... the internet is full the fuck up with armchair engineers
[18:03:05] <ssi> I got in an argument with an armchair engineer once upon a time who was convinced the future was tethered platforms that fly 15k' up and generate wind power
[18:03:10] <LeelooMinai> I think that solar roadways project got $2 mil or so in funds - basically free money for the people behind it
[18:03:17] <DaViruz> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uuGoDlG-qeA#t=69
[18:03:27] <DaViruz> that's what i'd say if everyone had to drive on glass
[18:04:30] <LeelooMinai> Only 1 season - you had to remind this
[18:04:48] <DaViruz> it's a shame
[18:06:11] <Connor> LeelooMinai: Yea.. I do Robotics and CNC stuff for hobby.. Not very much in the way of videos etc..
[18:06:57] <LeelooMinai> Hm, apparently that stepper that got to 62 deg C was one that had the holding current switch in other way - had full current hold, not half-current as the other ones. It's not so bad then.
[18:07:33] <LeelooMinai> I watch tv shows when I eat something:)
[18:08:16] <LeelooMinai> So I don't just sit and eat there and I don't feel guilty I waste my time on tv show eaither
[18:08:55] <jdh> you could be looking at pics of kittens on the internette instead
[18:10:01] <LeelooMinai> I like cats, and have one, but one has to draw a line somewhere
[18:10:08] <ssi> hahah
[18:11:30] <jdh> http://tinyurl.com/nunud5m There you go.
[18:12:35] <LeelooMinai> What were you making stone-age spears there? :)
[18:13:28] <jdh> spears?
[18:13:37] <LeelooMinai> https://plus.google.com/photos/112430417093824344570/albums/5966301610685966705/5966302244434227970?banner=pwa&authkey=CMOD7bDvp8SqPw&pid=5966302244434227970&oid=112430417093824344570
[18:13:40] <IchGuckLive> im off bYE
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[18:13:49] <jdh> oh. I thought the tinyurl would go to the single pic, not the album
[18:14:07] <jdh> those are shark teeth
[18:14:10] <LeelooMinai> I got whole album
[18:14:39] <LeelooMinai> Why do you have so many shark teeth - that's a bit wierd
[18:15:08] <jdh> I collect them.
[18:15:18] <jdh> in buckets, then I sell them.
[18:15:32] <LeelooMinai> So you find them on a shore?
[18:15:38] <LeelooMinai> Or kill the sharks? :)
[18:15:44] <jdh> in the ocean. 90-110ft deep
[18:16:06] <LeelooMinai> A, I see - so you scuba dive for them?
[18:16:27] <jdh> yep
[18:16:46] <LeelooMinai> I am not sure if I would do that if those teeth are on the bottom...
[18:16:57] <ssi> where's your sense of adventure? :)
[18:17:04] <jdh> the sharks they came from have been dead for millions of years
[18:17:13] <LeelooMinai> Ask me again ahen a shark attacks you
[18:17:42] <ssi> heh as someone who has fed sharks by diving, I promise I'm not concerned about it :)
[18:17:43] <LeelooMinai> O, so those are that old... hmm... ok
[18:17:52] <ssi> s/by/while/
[18:17:59] <jdh> sharks don't really 'attack' anyone
[18:18:43] <LeelooMinai> No?
[18:19:00] <mozmck1> they just eat them alive :)
[18:19:04] <LeelooMinai> they jsut eat them I guess
[18:19:29] <LeelooMinai> Some of those teeth look pretty big
[18:19:32] <ssi> three fatal shark attacks in the us from 2006 to 2010
[18:19:37] <ssi> those are pretty long odds
[18:19:43] <jdh> the biggest I've found was 6.5"
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[18:19:59] <mozmck1> can't be, "sharks don't really attack anyone"!
[18:20:01] <LeelooMinai> I read that the most deaths from creatures like that are from crocodilles/alligators
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[18:20:16] <LeelooMinai> Thousands in India for example
[18:20:22] <jdh> we have alligators. and lots of sharks here.
[18:20:34] <LeelooMinai> I guess that's what happens though if you do your laundry in a river full of them
[18:20:35] <ssi> humans are terrible at evaluating risk
[18:20:41] <jdh> not me.
[18:21:00] <ssi> refuse to get in the ocean for fear of sharks, but will drive cars :)
[18:21:11] <jdh> no kidding.
[18:21:32] <jdh> driving down I95 is the most dangerous part of cave diving for me.
[18:21:36] <ssi> :)
[18:21:38] <ssi> I used to cave
[18:21:44] <mozmck1> heh, in Okefenokee I was told people have set their 2 and 3 year old's on full grown momma aligators for a picture.
[18:22:03] <LeelooMinai> I hope they had at least few of those children
[18:22:23] <_abc_> ssi: You never got stuck and had to be rescued, right?
[18:22:30] <ssi> nope
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[18:22:53] <_abc_> mozmck1: Early birds get eaten, late ones get a nice photo
[18:22:55] <jdh> in general, there are no rescues from cave diving, just recoveries.
[18:23:01] <mozmck1> workers stopped them right quick. said they keep them well fed and have not had many problems overall.
[18:23:06] <_abc_> jdh: Did you see the German guy they got out now
[18:23:14] <ssi> often there's not even a recovery :)
[18:23:24] <jdh> nope
[18:23:43] <ssi> jdh: my latest batshit obsession is I want to get into blue water sailing
[18:23:51] <jdh> Edd has actually done 3 rescues in the last couple years.
[18:24:01] <LeelooMinai> It seems thare are many things that can go wrong when diving in close spaces
[18:24:07] <jdh> which is like 3x as many as ever before
[18:24:13] <ssi> LeelooMinai: oh yeah, tons of things that can go wrong... redundancy is your friend
[18:24:21] <jdh> risk mitigation via redundancy
[18:24:24] <_abc_> So what's the highest tcl/tk version you people have on a linux cnc machine running on ubutu 10.04 lts base?
[18:24:37] <LeelooMinai> jdh: You mean having a twin? :)
[18:25:09] <_abc_> Seriously, can someone please look?
[18:25:21] <ssi> "you people" hahah
[18:25:29] <LeelooMinai> I installed it on 12.04 and have tcl8.6 I think... let me see
[18:25:34] <_abc_> ssi: In the case of kids@alligators, redundancy planning means having twins?
[18:25:35] <mozmck1> friend of my dad's was in an underwater cave by himself, dropped the rope trying to get his light to come back on, almost ran out of air before finding the rope in the dark.
[18:25:58] <ssi> "by himself" was failure #1
[18:26:02] <ssi> solo caving is asking for trouble
[18:26:04] <_abc_> ssi: sorry 'you people and apes' ;)
[18:26:06] <LeelooMinai> _abc_: Why 10.04? 12.04 installation is pretty easy. I tried 14.04, but gave up after 3 days though:)
[18:26:07] <mozmck1> yep - he didn't do that again.
[18:26:14] <_abc_> LeelooMinai: the live cd is 10.04?
[18:26:18] <jdh> sailing bores the hell out of me.
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[18:26:26] <mozmck1> solo underwater caving is worse
[18:26:33] <CaptHindsight> humans are good at evaluating risk, it's the socialization via mass media that runs them off the rails of critical thinking
[18:26:35] <LeelooMinai> _abc_: Well, yes, but do you have to use it?
[18:26:45] <_abc_> LeelooMinai: No, but it is the least effort way
[18:26:45] <jdh> I almost always do solo caving. Much more pleasant.
[18:26:46] <ssi> mozmck1: to be clear that's the only kind of caving I recognize ;)
[18:26:51] <_abc_> LeelooMinai: I hate ubuntu
[18:27:17] <_abc_> solo caving and solo diving, the most straightforward ways to improve the gene pool
[18:27:23] <jdh> bah
[18:27:23] <LeelooMinai> _abc_: But isn't that 10.04 live cd ubuntu too?
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[18:27:36] <_abc_> maybe solo para jumping counts too with extra points for night jumps
[18:27:53] <_abc_> LeelooMinai: yes! Also it is the crappies linux distro I have seen since about 1995
[18:27:54] <LeelooMinai> And without parachute for extra points too
[18:28:10] <jdh> I like solo ccr scooter cave diving myself.
[18:28:23] <_abc_> macho
[18:28:32] <LeelooMinai> _abc_: It's kind of ancient - that's why I tried to get modern one working - 12.04 32-bit is 10 minutes of work thugh.
[18:28:45] <_abc_> I know but I would rather not touch it at all
[18:28:56] <_abc_> It has this MUSKY smell ... ;)
[18:29:00] <LeelooMinai> _abc_: All the packages are already there - you just install them and thone
[18:29:08] <LeelooMinai> done*
[18:29:21] <_abc_> The machine I need to get this on is so old it will probably croak during install
[18:29:48] <LeelooMinai> It gets weird when compiling for 64-bit and using git sources and different rtai versions and patches and...
[18:30:01] <_abc_> http://www.cnczone.com/forums/linuxcnc-formerly-emc2-/22969-use-ubuntu.html aha! this is how real men do it!
[18:30:28] <LeelooMinai> _abc_: I think you should be able to use Debina relatively easy too
[18:30:32] <LeelooMinai> Debian*
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[18:31:33] <LeelooMinai> _abc_: I must tell you though, at least Ubuntu installs painlessly. I tried installing Debian 2 days ago, and it had all sorts of problems with network for example
[18:32:18] <LeelooMinai> DHCP did not work at all
[18:33:31] <LeelooMinai> But you are probably even more weird and will try to run linuxcnc on BSD or something like that
[18:35:31] <_abc_> I hate Ubuntu
[18:35:48] <_abc_> I'd rather rewrite axis in asm than run linux for human beings
[18:35:59] <CaptHindsight> lol
[18:37:08] <LeelooMinai> linux for human beings is almost liek an oxymoron
[18:37:23] <_abc_> "almost"? Why almost?
[18:38:05] <LeelooMinai> But I use Ubuntu anyways - at least I have higher chance of googling and solving somehting if I need too
[18:38:23] * _abc_ prefers the knowledgeable people in #slackware
[18:39:48] <LeelooMinai> But yes, it's a bit worrying that linuxcnc is so tightly tied to specifics of the os
[18:40:08] <CaptHindsight> well Ubuntu's plan was to start with a widely accepted distro and then slowly change everything to get everyone doing it the Ubuntu way
[18:40:29] <LeelooMinai> It kind of works I would say
[18:40:40] <mozmck1> It's un-avoidable that realtime control software by tied to specifics of the os
[18:40:42] <LeelooMinai> It must be by far most popular now?
[18:40:50] <CaptHindsight> Android blind sided them and then they decided to go after tablets and phones vs a working PC desktop
[18:41:40] <CaptHindsight> they were suckered by gnome3 as well, but that foundation is on it's last breath, the people have spoken
[18:42:38] <mozmck1> Even Mach3 is tied that way - it's just that the OS has fewer changes. For each os update though it has required some tweaking in the parport driver.
[18:42:38] <LeelooMinai> mozmck1: Maybe if there was at least an agreement on the real time part - it's broken between few solutuions too
[18:42:41] <CaptHindsight> now Ubuntu is partnering with Amazon and others
[18:42:53] <SpeedEvil> mozmck1: not quite - you can have realtime offloaded to hw
[18:43:05] <_abc_> ^ what SpeedEvil said
[18:43:18] <LeelooMinai> Right, 14.04 comes up with this Amazon icon I had to unpin from the launcher because it was annoying me:)
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[18:43:42] <mozmck1> Same with linuxcnc...
[18:44:36] <_abc_> LeelooMinai: Ah and you think the tracking code was turned off when you unpinned it?
[18:44:36] <LeelooMinai> Maybe if linux kernel started to take real time option seriously
[18:45:00] <_abc_> There are realtime shedulers in the linux kernel already
[18:45:01] <mozmck1> They are to a degree with preempt-rt
[18:45:01] <LeelooMinai> _abc_: I don't know:) I still would like to use 14.04 just for the long time support
[18:45:02] <_abc_> Several
[18:45:36] <_abc_> Using rtai kernels with usb time stretching interfaces to real hw is a waste of time anyway
[18:45:36] <LeelooMinai> But preempt-rt from what I understand is just a patch and is not as real time as rtai and that other one, e, xenomai?
[18:45:37] <CaptHindsight> LeelooMinai: maybe Linux Mint or debian for you
[18:45:55] <LeelooMinai> Debian could not even install for me
[18:45:55] <CaptHindsight> LeelooMinai: that is correct
[18:46:08] <_abc_> LeelooMinai: rtai is very drastic it makes linux actually run only as a side plot
[18:46:28] <CaptHindsight> but preempt_rt works fine for all applications except for software stepping on LPT
[18:46:34] <LeelooMinai> I wish kernel just had a serious support for realtime that would unify this for spftware like liunuxcnc
[18:47:06] <LeelooMinai> Because after this 3 day experience with compiling all those versions of rtai and what not, I am a bit scared:)
[18:47:10] <CaptHindsight> so it's lots of work just to save $150 on hardware (fpga and IO board)
[18:47:23] <_abc_> Just use the hard sheduler with the preempt_rt patch and it should work fast enough that any parallel port will not notice
[18:47:31] <mozmck1> Yes, but the vast majority of users have no use for something like that, so it is not a priority - might even be totally rejected by the linux devs.
[18:48:06] <_abc_> mozmck1: real time kernels have other uses besides driving ancient parallel ports directly
[18:48:13] <LeelooMinai> Well, that's another thing - offloading realtime to external hardware is another solution, but it's not as flexible as having os that can do that in software
[18:48:24] <mozmck1> _abc_: Yes, but not for most users.
[18:48:29] <_abc_> mozmck1: you must realize the plethora of tiny boxes running linux and operating hardware can use this very very well
[18:48:41] <_abc_> rpi being just the raspberry on the cake in that pile
[18:48:47] <LeelooMinai> Especially now when all those little embedded boards running linux pop up - I even saw one with fpga
[18:49:11] <LeelooMinai> Someone also linked that banan pi - it seems to be good value
[18:49:18] <mozmck1> I imagine as the demand for hard realtime in the kernel increases, so will the supply.
[18:49:31] <LeelooMinai> banana - I think it's Chinese clone with extras like gigabit ethernet
[18:49:55] <CaptHindsight> banana pi $30 allwinner A20 in the Rpi form factor
[18:50:18] <LeelooMinai> So if that could do the realtime fine, $150 saving would be actually important
[18:50:34] <_abc_> mozmck1: Exactly. Especially since the tiny boards are massively underpowered which leads to serious smoke letout potential when hardware timing is reasonably demanding. Letting a gate motor move the gate well past the end post is just an example.
[18:50:34] <CaptHindsight> preempt_rt was ~80uS and xenomai ~40uS on the A20
[18:50:54] <_abc_> Acorn?
[18:50:58] <_abc_> What A20?
[18:51:11] <CaptHindsight> allwinner A20
[18:51:12] <LeelooMinai> _abc_: It's what Chinese tablets use
[18:51:18] <_abc_> ah
[18:51:38] <CaptHindsight> http://www.allwinnertech.com/en/clq/processora/2014/0223/265.html
[18:51:45] <LeelooMinai> I think it has multiple cores
[18:52:02] <CaptHindsight> A20 is 2 cores, A80 has 8
[18:52:09] <LeelooMinai> raspberry pi jsut has one
[18:52:13] <mozmck1> It would be nice to see something like rtai be standard in the kernel. Basically a realtime module which if enabled would get first access to *all* interrupts, etc.
[18:52:13] <_abc_> https://sites.google.com/site/bifferboard/Home/desktop-linux-distributions/slackware/rtai/rtai/satellite-dish-positioner-using-rtai crazy stuff they do with this
[18:52:18] <CaptHindsight> http://linux-sunxi.org/A20
[18:52:21] <LeelooMinai> That banana thing has more than 1 too I think
[18:52:35] <CaptHindsight> the banana pi uses the A20
[18:52:45] <LeelooMinai> a, right, ok, so same thing
[18:52:50] <CaptHindsight> the SOC is ~$6ea
[18:52:52] <_abc_> mozmck1: rtai sort of sees the kernel as a low priority app... you are more likely to see linux as a plug in module for a rtai kernel...
[18:53:29] <mozmck1> _abc_: some of those little projects would be better served with a little microcontroller. linux is *way* overkill
[18:53:48] <_abc_> Hey Forth was written by an astronomer guy for telescope control...
[18:53:51] <LeelooMinai> Yes, but some people don't have μC skills
[18:53:59] <CaptHindsight> but a nice low cost wonder box is handy
[18:54:05] <mozmck1> _abc_: I'm not sure about that, because then the rtai kernel would have to support all the hardware.
[18:54:08] <LeelooMinai> But they have programming ones in general, so use Linux as an overkilled controler
[18:54:37] <mozmck1> If you can program anything, you can learn to use and arduino (from what I hear anyhow).
[18:54:47] <_abc_> Oh god they shoehorned rtai into openwrt already
[18:54:52] <_abc_> I am telling you it is everywhere
[18:54:55] <CaptHindsight> the dunios cost more than the banana pi
[18:55:00] <LeelooMinai> And those linux-capabe boards get cheaper and cheaper mainly due to smarphones and tablets
[18:55:05] <_abc_> Don't mention duino
[18:55:10] <_abc_> made of fail
[18:55:10] <CaptHindsight> I wish the ST boards were more popular
[18:55:35] <CaptHindsight> well choices are nice
[18:55:36] <mozmck1> What ST boards? I use mostly NXP chips myself.
[18:55:37] <LeelooMinai> CaptHindsight: They are, just not in the large "maker" and what not circles
[18:55:53] <LeelooMinai> mozmck1: Similar thing - just ARMs from ST
[18:56:00] <LeelooMinai> ST has quite a range of them
[18:56:02] <_abc_> http://linuxcnc.org/index.php/english/download shouldn't someone compile a 12.x lts iso already?
[18:56:41] <LeelooMinai> _abc_: Unfortunatelly they did not. But getting things to run on 12.04 32-bit is pretty easy
[18:56:43] <mozmck1> Yes, I've looked at the ST chips, but they cost more, did less, and had worse docs than the NXP (a couple years ago anyhow).
[18:57:14] <LeelooMinai> mozmck1: I would not say that - they are pretty strong features all over the place
[18:57:19] <LeelooMinai> have*
[18:57:54] <LeelooMinai> mozmck1: As to the docs, I don't know - imho they are not terrible
[18:58:16] <LeelooMinai> mozmck1: And all the dev boards they have are very nice too, and cheap
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[18:58:38] <mozmck1> Could have changed since I first looked at them, but they definitely cost a lot more at the time. I think they did not have cortex-M0 at the time either?
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[18:59:18] <LeelooMinai> They have M0 for a long time. Some super cheap M0(+) μCs now too - F0 line I think
[18:59:22] <mozmck1> anyhow, I'm sure they are good, but I am not sorry I went with NXP.
[18:59:52] <LeelooMinai> Well, NXP or ST - still much better than using Arduino:)
[19:00:00] <mozmck1> agreed
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[19:06:26] <_abc_> NXP what? ARM?
[19:06:52] <mozmck1> LeelooMinai: hmm, the STM32F030K6T6 is cheaper than the equivalent NXP chip now, might have to take another look at ST chips.
[19:07:07] <mozmck1> ARM cortex-M series chips.
[19:07:16] <mozmck1> m0, m3
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[19:36:00] <Jymmm> PCW: Howdy!
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[19:46:10] <skroon> hi
[19:46:57] <LeelooMinai> Hmm... is "joint" 1 Y axis?
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[19:47:48] <LeelooMinai> When homing on X I get join 1 error
[19:48:20] <LeelooMinai> and I just checked that X limits are configured for X switch + Home
[19:49:31] <ssi> LeelooMinai: there's an "ignore limits while homing" field in the ini
[19:49:49] <ssi> but yes in trivkins joint 1 is Y
[19:50:00] <LeelooMinai> I have them set to YES
[19:50:03] <ssi> ok
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[19:50:23] <LeelooMinai> Right, I think there's something wrong with switches for x being read as y
[19:55:07] <Connor> LeelooMinai: So, that's you in the face shield and respirator ? :)
[19:55:30] <Connor> oh. and hearing protectors..
[19:55:45] <LeelooMinai> Yes, and with the compass an z-axis
[19:55:54] <Connor> Oh yea.
[19:55:57] <Connor> saw that one too
[19:56:15] <LeelooMinai> When I do some noisy stuff I need to have those protectors - someohow I cannot stand loud noise
[19:56:58] <Connor> Me too. I use face shield as well.. I have a VERY hard time with respirators though.. they burn me up.. and cause my glasses to fog up.
[19:57:06] <LeelooMinai> And shield, well, when I use some carbide saws or routing bits - better safe than sorry
[19:58:56] <Connor> 5th Element? :)
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[20:00:54] <Jymmm> Connor: no boob bandage wearing chick?
[20:01:31] <Connor> Jymmm: LeeLoo was her name.
[20:01:39] <Jymmm> I suspect a LOT of double stick tape was used when she was wearing that.
[20:04:58] <LeelooMinai> Hmm
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[20:05:15] <LeelooMinai> When I home the thing keeps moving in the initial direction
[20:05:23] <LeelooMinai> Instead of backing off
[20:06:43] <LeelooMinai> The wizard created this ini entries: HOME_OFFSET = 200.000000 HOME_SEARCH_VEL = 50.000000 HOME_LATCH_VEL = 3.125000 HOME_IGNORE_LIMITS = YES HOME_SEQUENCE = 2
[20:07:12] <JT-Shop> anyone know of plans for a vibrating parts finisher?
[20:07:13] <LeelooMinai> I looked at the docs for homing and both _VEL being positive seems valid there
[20:07:51] <JT-Shop> LeelooMinai, does the axis pass the switch up?
[20:08:08] <LeelooMinai> It seems to want to go further yes
[20:08:16] <LeelooMinai> Maybe home offset should be negative?
[20:08:21] <JT-Shop> try cutting search vel in 1/2
[20:08:48] <LeelooMinai> Shouldn't it detect the switch though regardless of velocity?
[20:09:26] <JT-Shop> if it is connected up yea, are you sure the switch input goes to the axis home input?
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[20:10:30] <LeelooMinai> I have chosen in the wizard X Both Linit + home, etc. Like this: http://i.imgur.com/HOVAXMA.png
[20:11:18] <LeelooMinai> Maybe offset is measured from the right switch and should be negative
[20:12:14] <LeelooMinai> HOME_OFFSET: "Contains the location of the home switch or index pulse, in joint coordinates. It can also be treated as the distance between the point where the switch or index pulse is latched and the zero point of the joint. After detecting the index pulse, LinuxCNC sets the joint coordinate of the current point to HOME_OFFSET. The default value is zero."
[20:12:17] <JT-Shop> the axis should approach the switch, trip the switch, back off, and return back to the switch with both search and latch the same
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[20:13:12] <LeelooMinai> I find what I quoted a bit unclear. It states that location is in joint coordinates - are those different of axis coordinates?
[20:16:12] <JT-Shop> joint and axis get intermingled a lot
[20:16:26] <JT-Shop> so does the axis do as I described above?
[20:16:39] <LeelooMinai> No - it wants to keep going
[20:16:44] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: You ever dealt with CFM/SP measuring?
[20:16:51] <LeelooMinai> I read this: http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/2.4/html/config_stepconf.html#sec:Axis-Travel-Home
[20:17:24] <LeelooMinai> But this uses fields that are different that ini entries and it's not really easy to understand how those two relate
[20:19:42] <LeelooMinai> Does this seem ok? http://i.imgur.com/9wmlJyb.png
[20:20:01] <jdh> what was in the above stream?
[20:20:08] <JT-Shop> I can't look at images I'm out of bandwidth
[20:20:21] <LeelooMinai> I imagined this sets the home in the middle of the axis, and the switch at the right end of it
[20:20:27] <JT-Shop> Jymmm, no
[20:20:44] <LeelooMinai> JT-Shop: It's the X Axis Configuration dialog
[20:20:57] <JT-Shop> stepconf?
[20:21:09] <LeelooMinai> JT-Shop: Hoem location: 0, Table travel -200 to 200, home switch loc 200
[20:21:16] <LeelooMinai> Yes
[20:21:35] <jdh> there is a nice homing and limits page in the wiki
[20:21:57] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: SPR:200, MS:4, Teeth: 1:1, pitch 5mm/rev, vel:50mm, acc: 100nn, home:0, travel -200 to 200, search vel: 25,
[20:21:59] <LeelooMinai> Yes, I read that, but they use ini names there, not those from the dialog
[20:22:19] <LeelooMinai> I could edit ini directly, but it will get desynched with the wizard
[20:22:30] <LeelooMinai> Which for now I may want to use
[20:22:41] <JT-Shop> normally you set the X axis to -1 and 400 and home is 0
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[20:23:25] <LeelooMinai> Why -1?
[20:23:40] <LeelooMinai> I have switches that are supposed to act both as limit and home
[20:23:55] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: (Thanks on the CFM/SP, thing. It's not even EOM yet)
[20:24:13] * JT-Shop has to get parts into the powder coat oven brb
[20:24:22] <Connor> Your offsetting your X by -1 so that it can be 0 to 400
[20:25:10] <Connor> Most router setups are set for X and Y in the positive.
[20:25:21] <LeelooMinai> I want to have the 0,0,0 point in the middle of the table though
[20:25:27] <jdh> why?
[20:25:37] <Jymmm> LeelooMinai: Were you attempting to make "HOME" the center of your travel?
[20:25:45] <LeelooMinai> Yes
[20:25:53] <jdh> home can be anywhere, it doesn't have to be 0
[20:26:04] <LeelooMinai> So after homing the machine is centered
[20:26:12] <Connor> On my router.. 0,0 is front left corner.
[20:26:14] <jdh> otoh, I don't think I really use machine coords ever
[20:26:15] <LeelooMinai> More or less
[20:26:27] <jdh> 0,0 is also my front left corner
[20:26:35] <Connor> that's pretty typically.
[20:26:50] <jdh> sometimes, I wish it was back left of my vise on my mill.
[20:27:22] <Connor> my MILL is different.. -9" to +9, and -3" to 3"
[20:27:32] <LeelooMinai> Hmm... I don't know - I imagine the table like a graph with X-Y axis - with 0.0 point in the centre
[20:27:57] <Connor> right now, use the upper right hand quadrant of the graph..
[20:27:59] <LeelooMinai> Hence my config - you think it's invalid?
[20:28:11] <Connor> putting 0,0 to the front left.
[20:28:17] <Jymmm> LeelooMinai: Do you have an absolute reference at your "center" by chance?
[20:28:44] <LeelooMinai> No, I wanted it to be middle point between switches
[20:29:10] <LeelooMinai> For now at least - when I get that mesa board I will have more inputs and may amek some home switches?
[20:29:18] <jdh> so I have enough cash in my PP account for a chinese 6040 again but I still can't bring myself to buy it.
[20:29:35] <Jymmm> I mean a physical absolute reference at center. As i an example case of one of the switch cam loose and you had to recalibrate your table.
[20:29:38] <Connor> LeelooMinai: No need. limit use as a home is fine.
[20:30:06] <Jymmm> jdh: 6040 what?
[20:30:13] <jdh> chinese router
[20:30:21] <jdh> connor: you only get 6" of Y?
[20:30:37] <Connor> jdh: With the vise not mounted @ front.. yes.
[20:30:41] <Jymmm> jdh: domestic or import?
[20:30:46] <Jymmm> loation
[20:30:49] <Jymmm> location*
[20:30:52] <jdh> china
[20:31:03] <Jymmm> add 30%
[20:31:07] <jdh> http://www.carving-cnc.com/cnc6040-series/cnc-6040z-s80-new-router-engraver-drilling-and-milling-machine.html
[20:31:13] <jdh> it's $1900 shipped
[20:31:28] <jdh> or $1525 shipped from random ebayer
[20:31:46] <JT-Shop> LeelooMinai, home is not in the center of any CNC machines that I've seen, it's a beginners mistake
[20:31:48] <Connor> LeelooMinai: What do you have for X min and X max, Hoe Offset, Home search and Latch Vel ?
[20:31:51] <Jymmm> jdh: EXCLUDING port fees, customs fees, etc
[20:31:52] <Connor> and Finial Vel ?
[20:32:10] <jdh> Jymm: never heard of anyone buying from them getting hit with those
[20:32:19] <jdh> and there are a lot of them out there.
[20:32:20] <LeelooMinai> Connor: The wizard created this ini entries: HOME_OFFSET = 200.000000 HOME_SEARCH_VEL = 50.000000 HOME_LATCH_VEL = 3.125000 HOME_IGNORE_LIMITS = YES HOME_SEQUENCE = 2
[20:32:20] * JT-Shop has some left over finials
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[20:32:56] <Jymmm> jdh: Ok, I just know some import lasers directly from china and they've had to deal with that is all.
[20:33:02] <LeelooMinai> JT-Shop: Ok, but what is a reason for it being a mistake?
[20:33:12] <Connor> okay. when it homes.. does it start off the correct direction ? WHICH switch is the "Home" Switch" left or right..
[20:33:21] <Jymmm> jdh: Heh, I'm selling my 24"x24"x5" router
[20:33:31] <JT-Shop> you don't machine in machine coordinates
[20:33:32] <LeelooMinai> right is supposed to be home, and yes, it moves to it, but tries to go over it
[20:33:35] <SpeedEvil> Jymmm: I'll swap you two tins of pineapples for it.
[20:33:44] <jdh> I'll throw in a can of anchovies
[20:33:46] * SpeedEvil needs to build a CNC router.
[20:34:03] <SpeedEvil> It's that, or cut up ~75 sheets
[20:34:14] <JT-Shop> LeelooMinai, either the control is not "seeing" the transition from on to off or your going too fast
[20:34:17] <Connor> you verified that the home switch is tripping in hal?
[20:34:21] <LeelooMinai> JT-Shop: You machine in, what then - workpiece coordinates?
[20:34:21] <Jymmm> It's made form 80/20
[20:34:35] <Connor> you may need to invert it..
[20:34:35] <jdh> cool. Ship it here and I'll send you some cash.
[20:34:44] <jdh> if I like it.
[20:34:46] <SpeedEvil> I shall be making mine from half inch ply. Quite a lot of it.
[20:34:54] <Jymmm> jdh: CBD =)
[20:34:59] <JT-Shop> LeelooMinai, yes
[20:35:06] <LeelooMinai> Connor: Yes, switches work fine - I tested with that port test utility with green/red circles
[20:35:23] <Connor> okay, So when NOT tripped, green, or red ?
[20:35:35] <LeelooMinai> red
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[20:35:40] <jdh> it wouldn't move at all if it were inverted would it?
[20:35:53] <Connor> If homing possibly
[20:36:16] <Connor> HOME_IS_SHARED
[20:36:19] <Connor> needs to be set as well.
[20:36:21] <Connor> to 1
[20:36:37] <Connor> which is probably the problem.
[20:37:24] <Connor> and set a HOME_FINAL_VEL too lower value than the latch and search
[20:37:44] <LeelooMinai> Connor: HOME_IS_SHARED is not in the ini - but I did not edit it - it was generated like it
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[20:38:34] <Connor> Hmm.
[20:38:37] <LeelooMinai> Connor: Doesn't this selection mean the same thing? http://i.imgur.com/IXWoaRQ.png
[20:38:41] <LeelooMinai> Or should
[20:39:14] <Connor> maybe that's obsolete..
[20:40:05] <Connor> go ahead and add that in.
[20:40:07] <LeelooMinai> Is anyone using this wizard anyway? :)
[20:40:09] <Connor> HOME_HS_SHARED = 1
[20:40:31] <Connor> It's good to get started.. but, after that.. it's nano or gedit time. :)
[20:40:36] <LeelooMinai> I think it's time to open docs for this ini file
[20:40:46] <Connor> http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/devel/html/config/ini_config.html
[20:40:58] <JT-Shop> devel?
[20:41:04] <Connor> but, try HOME_IS_SHARED = 1
[20:41:07] <LeelooMinai> I run 2.5
[20:41:16] <Connor> http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/html/config/ini_config.html
[20:41:17] <Connor> sorry
[20:41:29] <LeelooMinai> E, that's for multiple axis
[20:41:41] <LeelooMinai> I have separate switches on all axis though
[20:42:12] <Connor> Oh yea.
[20:42:19] <Connor> been a LONG while since I messed with homing.
[20:42:38] <LeelooMinai> ok, I will figure it out eventually - will just read more docs, thx:)
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[20:43:24] <Connor> LeelooMinai: Question, do you have the homes set in N.O. or N.C. setup ?
[20:43:35] <JT-Shop> LeelooMinai, only beginners use the wizard then move on to hand editing to fine tune
[20:43:37] <LeelooMinai> NC - I thought that is more reliable
[20:43:49] <Connor> okay, just checking.
[20:43:58] <Connor> NC is correct in 99.9% of the cases.
[20:44:01] * JT-Shop doesn't see where you can define the home sequence in stepconf wizard...
[20:44:07] <LeelooMinai> Otherwise if a wire or joint breaks...
[20:44:13] <JT-Shop> correct
[20:44:31] <LeelooMinai> JT-Shop: It's in axis configuration step
[20:44:50] <Connor> okay.. so -200 to 200 right?
[20:45:05] <LeelooMinai> Yes, and home is 0
[20:45:25] <LeelooMinai> And home switch is 200
[20:45:32] <Connor> okay.. and -200 is to your left, and 200 is to your right
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[20:45:39] <LeelooMinai> Right
[20:45:59] <Connor> Umm. Hmm.. I home on the left.
[20:46:08] <Connor> what is your search latch and final set to ?
[20:46:10] <JT-Shop> better specify that the tool moves to the right not the table
[20:46:29] <Connor> ROUTER so Assuming TOO moving, not table.
[20:46:40] <Connor> TOOL
[20:46:49] <JT-Shop> I try not to assume
[20:46:54] <LeelooMinai> Well...
[20:47:01] <LeelooMinai> I have fixed gantry
[20:47:03] <Connor> table moves in the Y based on the pictures.
[20:47:24] <LeelooMinai> Yes, table moves for Y only
[20:48:07] <Connor> Okay. set the HOME @ 195 with the offset to 0
[20:48:20] <LeelooMinai> Hmm, but indeed... I am configuring X axis with table travel...
[20:48:33] <Connor> err.
[20:48:35] <Connor> backwards.
[20:48:35] <LeelooMinai> Should I invert everything there?
[20:48:44] <Connor> Home to 0 offset to 195
[20:49:30] <Connor> lets get it moving and homing then you can flip stuff around after. :)
[20:49:35] <LeelooMinai> Is offset "Home switchl ocation?
[20:49:40] <Connor> Yes.
[20:49:53] <LeelooMinai> So I set it before the end of table?
[20:49:59] <Connor> Yes.
[20:50:20] <Connor> or after.
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[20:50:31] <Connor> technically, could be after..
[20:50:39] <Connor> because it it's shared..
[20:50:56] <Connor> you'll want the soft limits (MIN and MAX) to kick in before using the hard limit
[20:51:02] <LeelooMinai> I got "joint 1 on limit switch error"
[20:51:12] <LeelooMinai> I thought that's Y axis:/
[20:51:41] <Connor> It possible you have X and Y switches wired to wrong inputs ?
[20:52:10] <Connor> How much over travel do you have on your X?
[20:52:10] <LeelooMinai> Let me trip this switch by hand
[20:52:28] <LeelooMinai> Hmm, same thing
[20:52:41] <LeelooMinai> I double checked wiring. Let me see again.
[20:52:58] <Connor> you may want to do max 200 and home 205
[20:53:11] <Connor> err.. home offset
[20:53:12] * JT-Shop goes back to making parts on the mill
[20:53:48] <LeelooMinai> Connor: I think yes, I have X and Y miswired
[20:53:59] <LeelooMinai> I knew I should triple-check
[20:54:02] <Connor> okay. so don't change it pysically.
[20:54:10] <Connor> just switch the pins in the .hal file.
[20:54:13] <LeelooMinai> RIght
[20:54:49] <Connor> that would explain why it just kept on going right past the switch.. it never tripped the correct one. :)
[20:55:16] <LeelooMinai> Yes, I actually suspected that initially, then "checked" the wiring
[20:56:53] <LeelooMinai> Ok, now it almost did it
[20:56:59] <Connor> Almost ?
[20:57:04] <Connor> what happened?
[20:57:56] <LeelooMinai> Well, wen right, tripped the switch, then a bit left, right again, and started moving left but, not sure what was that, like it stalled - maybe too fast?
[20:58:16] <LeelooMinai> The second time it worked though
[20:58:23] <Connor> It first does a rough pass to find the switch..
[20:58:27] <LeelooMinai> Or maybe it's the coupler not holding
[20:58:39] <LeelooMinai> Maybe I should tighten it
[20:58:40] <Connor> then a slower pass to be more accurate.
[20:59:17] <Connor> http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/config/ini_homing.html#_home_sequence
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[21:00:21] <LeelooMinai> I should welded those couplers:)
[21:01:12] <Connor> what do you have for search and latch values ?
[21:01:27] <Connor> and offset and max now ?
[21:01:59] <LeelooMinai> home switch loc 195
[21:02:10] <LeelooMinai> latch direction samme
[21:02:21] <Connor> latch is 195 ?
[21:02:26] <LeelooMinai> Yes
[21:02:26] <Connor> wow. okay.
[21:02:41] <Connor> Do this. Max 200, home offset 205, search 50, latch 5
[21:03:03] <Connor> it'll search @ 50mm/s latch at 5mm/s
[21:03:14] <Connor> set soft limit to 200, and hard limit is 205
[21:03:17] <LeelooMinai> In the wizard I cannot specify the value for latch - it only has options same/opposite
[21:03:48] <Connor> okay.. time to step away from the wizard...
[21:04:01] <Deejay> gn8
[21:04:09] <Connor> the search and latch are velocity values..
[21:04:11] <Connor> no location
[21:04:17] <Connor> err..not locations.
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[21:04:41] <LeelooMinai> Hmm, with 205 it tries to go through the right side again
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[21:04:58] <Connor> you mean too much ?
[21:05:03] <Connor> too far ?
[21:05:14] <LeelooMinai> It hits the wall and keeps pushing:)
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[21:05:35] <Connor> did it pass the switch first ?
[21:05:37] <LeelooMinai> I will enter 195 again
[21:06:46] <Connor> 400mm of travel is that EXACT or do you have any over travel available ?
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[21:07:23] <LeelooMinai> It's not exact - just some close numbers less than what is there I think
[21:07:38] <Connor> OH. and if you changed the ini file manually.. then used the wizard again.. it undone your changes.
[21:07:57] <Connor> so, if you flipped the pins in the .hal file for the X and Y switch swap..
[21:08:02] <Connor> then the wizard blew that away
[21:08:12] <LeelooMinai> I know, I flipped them in the wizard
[21:08:46] <Connor> You need the home/limit to be outisde of the min max range..
[21:08:47] <LeelooMinai> Ok, I will abanod that wizard from now on - I don't like it any more
[21:08:54] <LeelooMinai> abandon*
[21:08:54] <Connor> otherwise, it'll trip before you hit soft limits
[21:09:11] <Connor> which is why I said offset to 205
[21:09:30] <Connor> if -200 and 200 is going to be your soft limits
[21:09:40] <LeelooMinai> soft limits are the MIN_LIMIT and MAX_LIMIT values?
[21:09:46] <Connor> yes
[21:10:00] <LeelooMinai> What are "hard" limits then?
[21:10:05] <Connor> your limit switches
[21:10:20] <Connor> which should be a tad larger than the soft limits
[21:11:01] <Connor> you never really want to hit your hard limits if you can help it.
[21:11:05] <Connor> after you've homed.
[21:11:19] <Connor> which is why I asked if you had a any over travel..
[21:11:26] <LeelooMinai> "MAX_LIMIT = 1000 - The maximum limit (soft limit) for axis motion, in machine units. When this limit is exceeded, the controller aborts axis motion."
[21:11:27] <Connor> you may need to make them something like -195 and 195
[21:11:32] <LeelooMinai> What is that 1000 doing there?
[21:12:08] <Connor> Not sure.. something that the wizard dropped in ?
[21:12:12] <Connor> that should be 200
[21:12:17] <Connor> based on what you've told me.
[21:12:19] <LeelooMinai> No, docs: http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/devel/html/config/ini_config.html
[21:12:49] <LeelooMinai> Maybe default?
[21:12:59] <Connor> yes. -1000 and 1000 are the defaults.
[21:13:05] <Connor> for a machine with 2000mm travel
[21:13:17] <LeelooMinai> Ok, then it states that the machine will abort movement outside it...
[21:13:30] <LeelooMinai> So how can it even home if the switch will be outside the range?
[21:13:33] <Connor> right.. exception is when homing and you have IGNORE_LIMITS
[21:13:49] <Connor> it ignores soft limits all together.
[21:13:50] <LeelooMinai> I see
[21:13:59] <Connor> and since your home is your hard limit, you need IGNORE_LIMITS
[21:15:40] <Connor> so, min -200, max 200, offset 205 (shrink min and max and offset as needed), home 0 search 50, latch 5 and give it a go
[21:16:57] <Connor> it should move right, at 50mm/s till it hits the switch.. backs off to the left, then travel's right again at 5mm/s then left again (at max velocity) till it hits 0
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[21:17:24] <LeelooMinai> I hate this noise
[21:17:32] <LeelooMinai> It hit the right side again
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[21:18:00] <Connor> okay, tripple check your pins for the switches again.
[21:18:27] <Connor> either, it's maxing out before tripping the switch, or the pins are swapped again.
[21:18:29] <LeelooMinai> The switch is ok, because I just pressed it and get join 0 switch error
[21:19:02] <LeelooMinai> OK, maybe when the thing swuashed right side it bent the limit switch - let me see
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[21:20:36] <LeelooMinai> Yes, that was it, but now I get "home switch inactive before start of backoff move"
[21:20:46] <LeelooMinai> SO maybe that 2005 should be less or something liek that?
[21:20:49] <LeelooMinai> 2005*
[21:21:01] <LeelooMinai> 205
[21:21:21] <Connor> You jogging off the switch before you home again ?
[21:21:30] <LeelooMinai> Yes
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[21:22:30] <LeelooMinai> I think when it runs into the switch it's doing something brutal
[21:23:21] <Connor> that sounds like it went past the switch
[21:23:53] <Connor> or, bent it as it was activating the switch.
[21:24:28] <Connor> could try dropping the search from 50 down to say 30
[21:24:35] <Connor> to see if that makes a difference.
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[21:25:09] <Connor> picture of how you have your switches setup ?
[21:26:15] <LeelooMinai> Ok, it worked this time, a sec
[21:26:45] <LeelooMinai> Connor pretty much as like on the bottom there: https://www.flickr.com/photos/100017731@N03/14215648455/
[21:26:53] <LeelooMinai> They are set so that blocks hit them
[21:28:38] <Connor> ok, so 30 did better than 50? or it just worked at 50 ?
[21:29:01] <LeelooMinai> I used 25
[21:29:17] <Connor> ok.
[21:29:44] <LeelooMinai> I think now I need to adjust the couplers etc. and things like that. But at least I know how to make other axis home - thx
[21:30:07] <Connor> Good Deal.
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[21:47:12] <ssi> LeelooMinai: sorry I got distracted, you get your homing working?
[21:48:18] <LeelooMinai> More or less - at least for X axis, so I will do the rest. I need to adjust some things though now - couplers, switches
[21:48:44] <LeelooMinai> I don't like my x-axis coupler - it wobbles a bit
[21:48:49] <LeelooMinai> z-axis*
[21:54:46] <JT-Shop> [15:07]<JT-Shop> try cutting search vel in 1/2
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[21:58:02] <LeelooMinai> JT-Shop: The problem was that the X and Y stops were switched so it rammed the X switch and then it was end a bit and did not detect further
[21:58:12] <LeelooMinai> end=bend
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[22:47:59] <mshaver> Does G91 affect probing? Can I do G91G38.2Z-2.0 for example and do a probe move that's two units negative from the current position?
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[22:58:21] <mshaver> So, I tried it, and YES! You can do incremental probe moves. I am so happy! Well, as happy as someone can be over incremental probe moves :)
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[23:04:01] <CaptHindsight> preempt-rt staying at 23us on Asus f2a85-v pro https://www.asus.com/Motherboards/F2A85V_PRO/, A10 5800K http://products.amd.com/en-gb/DesktopAPUDetail.aspx?id=44
[23:04:29] <CaptHindsight> LeelooMinai: which mainboard and cpu are you using?
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[23:26:45] <LeelooMinai> ASUS H81M-D PLUS + cheap Intel Celeron G1840 Haswell Dual-Core 2.8GHz
[23:27:57] <LeelooMinai> MB was $60 or so and CPU similar - pretty cheap, but still those are modern components
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[23:29:12] <zeeshan|3> hi
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[23:31:02] <zeeshan|3> so i have double shaft stepper mtoors
[23:31:03] <zeeshan|3> http://www.xylotex.com/images/StepperMotor.jpg
[23:31:09] <zeeshan|3> with the wires that stick out of the body like trhat
[23:31:26] <zeeshan|3> how do most people wire them to the stepper driver?
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[23:31:33] <zeeshan|3> i currently have a receptacle at the controller box.
[23:31:53] <zeeshan|3> but i want a way to disconnect the wire directly at the stepper motor, rather then permanently soldering it in :p
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[23:32:20] <LeelooMinai> I used XLR (i think that's the name) connectors
[23:32:28] <zeeshan|3> yes, thats whats on my controller box
[23:32:35] <zeeshan|3> but how am i supposed to attach xlr to the stepper body :p
[23:33:17] <LeelooMinai> zeeshan|3: Look at the top - I put the four wires into protective tube, then added connector receptacle, and just zipped that into the stepper
[23:33:25] <LeelooMinai> https://www.flickr.com/photos/100017731@N03/14362017434/
[23:34:06] <zeeshan|3> ah
[23:34:07] <zeeshan|3> i see!
[23:34:08] <LeelooMinai> So I can just disconnect cable from both the stepper and the drivers
[23:34:31] <LeelooMinai> Solidering it permanently would be a bit lame imho:)
[23:34:40] <zeeshan|3> well not really man
[23:34:44] <zeeshan|3> cause you can disconnect it from the controller side
[23:34:52] <zeeshan|3> i have xlr at the controller
[23:35:04] <zeeshan|3> it's not like you need to disconnect the stepper all the time..
[23:35:15] <LeelooMinai> Yes, but you may want to change cable length or who knows not int he future - having it like that is more flexible
[23:35:20] <zeeshan|3> mainly to replace it , in which case you gotta solder a xlr connect on it regardless
[23:35:54] * zeeshan|3 is getting defensive cause i'm lazy and im thinking of permanently soldering it on the motor side haha
[23:36:12] <zeeshan|3> ps, thats a huge chunk of aluminum
[23:36:14] <LeelooMinai> Up to you - I like it more modular
[23:36:17] <zeeshan|3> for your gantry
[23:36:51] <LeelooMinai> Yes, well, but it's just aluminum - that's probably comparalble to what... 1/3 inch steel
[23:37:37] <zeeshan|3> i only have a few chunks of 1 1/2" 6061
[23:37:41] <zeeshan|3> but nothing as big as that
[23:37:50] <zeeshan|3> i wish i had more!
[23:38:03] <LeelooMinai> I think it was about $70 or so per one side for those slabs
[23:38:19] <LeelooMinai> Not cheap, but not stellar too
[23:38:44] <jthornton> LeelooMinai, that's why you want to test homing with very slow speeds
[23:39:14] <CaptHindsight> LeelooMinai: kernel config: http://dpaste.com/22CPR57 3.12.22-rt34 try this
[23:40:00] <zeeshan|3> LeelooMinai: are you using 3x3" solid square
[23:40:11] <zeeshan|3> (bottom part where the slabs attach to)
[23:40:24] <LeelooMinai> CaptHindsight: I am traumatized after 3 days of compiling and patching stuff - I am not trying anything for a while:)
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[23:41:09] <LeelooMinai> zeeshan|3: No, those are filled with sand and ended with solid blocks: https://www.flickr.com/photos/100017731@N03/9630753355/
[23:41:19] <LeelooMinai> Solid were too expensive
[23:41:35] <LeelooMinai> But I figured that this should be pretty rigid too
[23:41:37] <CaptHindsight> if anyone else can try it and report back about that kernel it would be great
[23:42:04] <LeelooMinai> CaptHindsight: But this is only pathed preempt, right?
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[23:42:15] <zeeshan|3> LeelooMinai: you're from toronto?
[23:42:25] <LeelooMinai> No, kitchener - not far away
[23:42:32] <zeeshan|3> oh im in hamilton
[23:42:33] <zeeshan|3> you're close by
[23:42:43] <zeeshan|3> (i was surfing through your pics and saw the toronto skyline pic)
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[23:43:32] <zeeshan|3> if you need stuff, let me know! :P
[23:43:56] <LeelooMinai> I need a lot of stuff - for example 10GHz oscilloscope would be nice:)
[23:44:03] <zeeshan|3> ahha i'm far from electronics
[23:44:07] <CaptHindsight> I used to drive through Hamilton all the time
[23:44:07] <zeeshan|3> i mean more so machining related
[23:44:17] <zeeshan|3> like dial indicators
[23:44:32] <zeeshan|3> http://i.imgur.com/Q87RZTz.jpg
[23:44:33] <zeeshan|3> i got too many
[23:44:39] <zeeshan|3> i can get rid of some
[23:44:42] <LeelooMinai> RIght, so maybe one of those CNC machines they show on youtube that can make whole car engine body in 1 hour:)
[23:45:03] <zeeshan|3> are you an engineer?
[23:45:23] <zeeshan|3> CaptHindsight: why dont you drive through hamilton anymore? :{
[23:45:26] <LeelooMinai> No, just a hobbyist - "retired" programmer that plays with EE and insteresting tech things
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[23:45:46] <zeeshan|3> cool
[23:46:20] <zeeshan|3> i'm a scavenger, engineer, fabricator, machinist
[23:46:29] <zeeshan|3> i'm terrible with microelectronics
[23:46:29] <zeeshan|3> :{
[23:46:43] <zeeshan|3> my friend was throwing away some stereo equipment
[23:46:49] <zeeshan|3> i ripped it apart, and i found this in there:
[23:46:53] <zeeshan|3> http://i.imgur.com/o7Pjt2t.jpg
[23:46:57] <zeeshan|3> a big ass heat sink
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[23:50:12] <LeelooMinai> Worth keeping I guess
[23:50:35] <zeeshan|3> the transformer is some 110v to 24vdc
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[23:50:39] <zeeshan|3> er 24vac
[23:50:45] <zeeshan|3> thats always useful for industrial controls
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[23:51:20] <zeeshan|3> LeelooMinai: you know i suspected instantly you were from my area
[23:51:29] <zeeshan|3> because of the cross-slide vise you have
[23:51:32] <zeeshan|3> princess auto :D
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[23:51:44] <zeeshan|3> it
[23:51:47] <zeeshan|3> it's an awesome vise
[23:52:03] <LeelooMinai> A, right - indeed, ordered it from there. Cheap ass one, but was useful with floor drill press
[23:52:14] <zeeshan|3> yea, i use it all the time on mine
[23:52:27] <zeeshan|3> can do light milling with it
[23:52:33] <zeeshan|3> (not safe, but its doable)
[23:52:34] <LeelooMinai> Great for aligning drill bits
[23:52:45] <tjtr33> is mha's log site down? http://linuxcnc.mah.priv.at/irc/%23linuxcnc/2014-06-23.html
[23:53:04] <LeelooMinai> I can read that page fine
[23:53:10] <tjtr33> thx
[23:53:11] <zeeshan|3> http://i.imgur.com/knSHKUN.jpg
[23:53:16] <zeeshan|3> its hiding in that mess
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[23:53:29] <zeeshan|3> i usually keep it free floating
[23:53:34] <LeelooMinai> What is the blue thing with holes (for hands)?
[23:53:34] <zeeshan|3> which defeats its purpose hehe
[23:53:42] <zeeshan|3> sand blaster from princess auto
[23:54:17] <LeelooMinai> Hmm... so you put hands there to hold something and blast it?
[23:54:21] <zeeshan|3> http://i.imgur.com/UcxpeZO.jpg
[23:54:23] <zeeshan|3> better pic
[23:54:28] <zeeshan|3> yea, the black thing a door, you load your part up from tehre
[23:54:38] <zeeshan|3> on the left side you hook up a shop vacuum so it sucks the dust
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[23:54:50] <zeeshan|3> and theres a gun inside the cabinet
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[23:55:14] <zeeshan|3> but you'll need a big air compressor to run it (like 16scfm) and a dryer
[23:55:19] <zeeshan|3> otherwise the moisture clogs the gun
[23:56:11] <LeelooMinai> Interesting. I have to stop buying big tools though - my mom would kill me:)
[23:56:27] <LeelooMinai> I have the floor drill press in my room actually
[23:56:48] <LeelooMinai> And I changed my closet into workbench - my mom though I went crazy
[23:56:58] <zeeshan|3> rofl
[23:57:06] <zeeshan|3> take over the garage
[23:57:15] <LeelooMinai> I don't have one:)
[23:57:16] <zeeshan|3> or the basement
[23:57:47] <LeelooMinai> Right, that's parially taken over, but I don't like sitting there - I feel like a rat
[23:57:56] <zeeshan|3> im impressed that your xyz machine has been built with a drill press
[23:58:10] <LeelooMinai> Well, drill press, table router and mitre saw
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[23:58:44] <zeeshan|3> i notice your table has been face milled too
[23:58:45] <LeelooMinai> Mitre saw with nice alu blade took care of cutting beams and brackets, etc.
[23:59:25] <zeeshan|3> one more q
[23:59:29] <LeelooMinai> That's using wood router - kind of MacGyver style - https://www.flickr.com/photos/100017731@N03/10046651986/
[23:59:31] <zeeshan|3> you klnow your red mini dial indiactor holder
[23:59:34] <zeeshan|3> did you get that from shars?
[23:59:41] <LeelooMinai> From aliexpress
[23:59:50] <LeelooMinai> I buy a lot from there
[23:59:58] <zeeshan|3> okay, cause i ordered one from shars, and i never got it, it got lost in the mail