#linuxcnc | Logs for 2014-06-15

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[00:00:37] <SpeedEvil> I did once.
[00:00:45] <SpeedEvil> But manually
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[00:00:56] <SpeedEvil> So it probably doesn't count
[00:01:35] <XXCoder> zeeshan|2: figured how moubnt that thing yet?
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[00:16:43] <CaptHindsight> zeeshan|2: not only that, but he wrote all the Gcode by hand :)
[00:22:02] <CaptHindsight> http://www.tenryu.com/pra.html cuts through extrusions like a hot knife through butter
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[02:09:41] <Lathe_newbie> is there a possibility to enable open drain in pncconf'
[02:09:54] <Lathe_newbie> ?
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[06:39:13] <Deejay> moin
[06:39:40] <Jymmm> ug
[06:41:27] <Deejay> hi jymmm
[06:43:49] <archivist> zeeshan|2, yes, made some replacement plastic gears for someone
[06:44:44] <archivist> was while the machine was still 4 axis http://www.collection.archivist.info/searchv13.php?searchstr=cnc+helical
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[07:46:57] <zeeshan|2> archivist: how the heck do you even inspect them after :P
[07:48:36] <archivist> in that case it is a simple one that I just compared to the original
[07:48:43] <zeeshan|2> i see
[07:48:51] <zeeshan|2> sometime by the end of this year
[07:48:58] <zeeshan|2> i'd like to start producing some metal helical gears
[07:49:00] <zeeshan|2> for transmissions
[07:49:08] <archivist> for a lot of stuff the tolerance is wider than you may be expecting
[07:49:23] <zeeshan|2> for car stuff
[07:49:28] <zeeshan|2> i can only persume the tolerances are tight
[07:49:41] <archivist> very tight
[07:50:07] <zeeshan|2> so to do this, i'd need to have at least a 4 axis
[07:50:11] <zeeshan|2> and some way to inspect
[07:50:15] <zeeshan|2> i need to research it more :P
[07:50:41] <archivist> hob them, not sure if some production is ground
[07:50:56] <zeeshan|2> hob might get expensive
[07:51:02] <zeeshan|2> cause of the different ratios
[07:51:14] <zeeshan|2> honestly, i should prolly say fuck it to helical gears
[07:51:18] <zeeshan|2> and just make straight cut gears
[07:51:26] <zeeshan|2> helical gears are stronger
[07:51:34] <zeeshan|2> but i can just make the face width of the straight cut gears wider
[07:51:38] <archivist> hob is generation you dont care what the ratio is
[07:51:38] <zeeshan|2> and just deal with the noise
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[07:52:40] <archivist> you can mill helical should be quieter than milled straight
[07:53:02] <zeeshan|2> http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/attachments/f38/26946d1286581656-help-gear-hobbing-helical-gear-pictures-062small.jpg
[07:53:02] <archivist> linuxcnc can hob too
[07:53:05] <zeeshan|2> you're saying something like that
[07:53:06] <zeeshan|2> right?
[07:53:10] <zeeshan|2> just hob at an angle
[07:53:48] <archivist> yes and gear the spindles together
[07:54:26] <archivist> one also has the lead to add into the rotation with distance cut
[07:54:44] <zeeshan|2> here's another thing
[07:54:45] <zeeshan|2> http://valuablemechanisms.files.wordpress.com/2010/05/bevel-gears.png
[07:54:49] <zeeshan|2> if iwanna make bevel gears
[07:54:53] <zeeshan|2> can it be done on a 4 axis?
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[07:55:34] <zeeshan|2> gear machining interests me :)
[07:55:38] <archivist> probably but the maths is....
[07:56:10] <archivist> I have not fully cracked straight generated bevels
[07:56:36] <zeeshan|2> the pinion looks hard to make
[07:56:46] <zeeshan|2> cause of the way the teeth curve
[07:56:53] <zeeshan|2> the ring gear seems fairly standard
[07:56:59] <zeeshan|2> something that you can do using a 3 axis
[07:57:15] <zeeshan|2> http://www.iwasa-tech.com/product/img/DSC_0515.jpg
[07:57:19] <zeeshan|2> looks like they use a bull nose cutter
[07:57:23] <zeeshan|2> ball nose cutter
[07:57:52] <Loetmichel> when i can make threads on a chinese 6040 you sure can make bevel gears on your machine.
[07:58:34] <archivist> zeeshan|2, that is probably only the gashing stage
[07:59:31] <archivist> the maths http://www.archivist.info/gear/designbevel.php
[07:59:49] <zeeshan|2> rofl
[08:00:04] <zeeshan|2> the gears i wanna make arent even straight
[08:00:06] <zeeshan|2> they're offset
[08:00:09] <archivist> I know
[08:00:25] <zeeshan|2> looks like a pain
[08:00:46] <zeeshan|2> but fun
[08:01:16] <archivist> they build the maths into the machine, and have some near enough parts
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[08:02:09] <archivist> the spiral gears are made with special cutters, look at youtube
[08:02:58] <zeeshan|2> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8aUQM-VtElo
[08:03:05] <zeeshan|2> this guy seems to be using just a slitting saw
[08:03:05] <zeeshan|2> lol
[08:03:12] <zeeshan|2> sparks flying everywhere
[08:03:52] <zeeshan|2> purely mechanical system
[08:03:53] <zeeshan|2> fancy
[08:04:14] <Loetmichel> more like a flycutter than a slitting saw
[08:04:21] <archivist> flycutter
[08:04:32] <zeeshan|2> whoops
[08:04:32] <zeeshan|2> =D
[08:04:38] <Loetmichel> i would think: with the tooth for gound into it
[08:04:40] <Loetmichel> form
[08:05:03] <zeeshan|2> okay on this note
[08:05:03] <Loetmichel> ground
[08:05:04] <zeeshan|2> its bed time
[08:05:05] <zeeshan|2> 4am :{
[08:05:07] <zeeshan|2> gnite!
[08:05:08] <archivist> but the form should be changing along the gear
[08:05:22] <Loetmichel> maybe he compromized?
[08:05:48] <archivist> there are often compromises
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[09:00:02] <Jymmm> archivist: http://codeshare.io/
[09:00:33] <Jymmm> http://codeshare.io/mMwnj
[09:01:49] <archivist> blank
[09:02:00] <Jymmm> the 2nd link?
[09:02:04] <archivist> yes
[09:02:24] <Jymmm> it might be slightly delayed
[09:02:35] <archivist> probably no clue about all the browsers out there
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[09:03:54] <Jymmm> It does color syntax highlighting too.
[09:03:57] <Jymmm> oh try it now
[09:05:15] <archivist> http://www.collection.archivist.info/archive/grabs/Screenshot-5.png
[09:05:30] <archivist> what I call useless
[09:06:05] <Jymmm> That's not what I see here
[09:06:54] <Jymmm> bummer that is doesn't like ubuntu
[09:07:03] <archivist> someone please tell web designers the are other older systems out there that should be tested
[09:07:27] <archivist> Garmin needs a kick too
[09:07:32] <Jymmm> heh, understatement
[09:08:11] <archivist> their feedback fails so I could not even moan about it
[09:08:39] <Jymmm> browser + garmin?
[09:09:35] <archivist> I need to upgrade the map in my gps
[09:09:58] <Jymmm> which gps?
[09:09:59] <micges> Jymmm: codeshare.io works in opera on ubu 10.04
[09:10:06] <archivist> I did find the ugrade program is only windows and mac
[09:10:27] <Jymmm> micges: ah cool
[09:10:59] <archivist> model is i3
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[09:14:16] <archivist> heh garmin site internal link goes to a 404
[09:15:40] <Jymmm> Well, this doens't help you http://www.gpsbabel.org/index.html
[09:16:00] <Jymmm> archivist: do you have a XP VM at least?
[09:16:23] <Jymmm> archivist: or maybe WINE ?
[09:16:41] <archivist> currently I dont have a running XP the laptop died
[09:17:02] <Jymmm> have the install CD?
[09:17:10] <archivist> not sure if wine can use the usb
[09:19:34] <archivist> probably have the CD "somewhere"
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[09:19:48] <Jymmm> http://wiki.winehq.org/USB
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[09:21:10] <Jymmm> archivist: I'd just create a base XP VM, save that somewhere safe, then make a copy to use as you need to. If you can slipstream it, it'll be much smaller.
[09:21:40] <Jymmm> If I find the time, that's what I plan on doing.
[09:22:26] <archivist> I dont have time to mess I just want it to work!
[09:22:46] <Jymmm> lol
[09:23:07] <archivist> it is about 10 years out of date probabpy
[09:23:42] <Jymmm> ah, not sure how old mine is 76cs, no longer has updated maps for it.
[09:23:57] <Jymmm> I believe
[09:24:04] <archivist> mine they stopped updating the software in 2007
[09:24:45] <Jymmm> ah
[09:24:59] <archivist> 2007 they releases 3.40 mine has an even older version of 2.5
[09:26:03] <archivist> it was cheap though on a fleamarket in its original box
[09:26:26] <Jymmm> I think mine has 3.x, the last pre-NT version
[09:26:36] <Jymmm> (NT is not a M$ thing)
[09:28:54] <archivist> I had fun last week doing a delivery to a "new build" estate so there was no possibility of the gps knowing where it was
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[09:31:20] <SpeedEvil> archivist: coordinates
[09:31:50] <SpeedEvil> archivist: also, I've mapped new estates for openstreetmap before they opened
[09:32:28] <archivist> I want to be able to use openstreetmap on the garmin
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[09:35:35] <archivist> hmm interesting page http://garmin.openstreetmap.nl/
[09:43:10] <archivist> so the big question, does that replace the file on the SD card or an addition
[09:48:05] <archivist> oops, the download is bigger than the card in the device :(
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[09:54:52] <SpeedEvil> archivist: unsure
[09:55:09] <SpeedEvil> archivist: #osm (or is it #openstreetmap) over on irc.oftc.net
[09:55:20] <archivist> http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Garmin.OpenStreetMap.nl:Manual
[09:56:16] <archivist> tells where to put it, but the 300MB plus .zip wont fit in 256mb methinks
[09:58:58] <SpeedEvil> I could lend you a 1G card if you can't find one :)
[10:00:01] <archivist> I had one somewhere, may look in tesco later
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[12:02:59] <Lathe_newbie> is there a possibility to change the pid values in axis?
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[12:15:19] <archivist> SpeedEvil, smallest was 4gb but reduced to clear!
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[14:00:34] <Linuxcnc_user> Hallo zusammen ich bitte um entschuldigung wo bitte gehts hier zum deutschen channel? danke im voraus
[14:02:24] <Loetmichel> es gibt keinen deutschen meines wissesn
[14:03:21] <kfoltman> Germans in a CNC/engineering channel? UNPOSSIBLE!
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[14:05:12] <Loetmichel> kfoltman: harhar
[14:05:58] <Linuxcnc_user> danke genau sowas hatte ich erwartet !
[14:06:08] <archivist> germans speaking german is a bit rare though
[14:06:18] <Linuxcnc_user> also danke dann und bleibt unter euch ihr wissenden
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[14:06:40] <kfoltman> archivist: true
[14:07:24] <kfoltman> which is good because after 4 years of learning (20 years ago) I still can't understand much of it
[14:07:27] <Loetmichel> boah, that was a real strange guy
[14:08:28] <Loetmichel> had him in query. on the question what his problem is: "no, if they cant answer in german i will search elsewhere"
[14:08:35] <Loetmichel> and simply quitting
[14:08:41] <archivist> hehe
[14:09:43] <Loetmichel> maybe i could've helped him ( i doubt it) but actually he seemed determined to get NO help at all ;)
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[14:12:24] <archivist> some expect too much for free
[14:13:10] <kfoltman> people are weird
[14:13:46] <archivist> I am not striving to be normal
[14:14:26] <kfoltman> people are weird even if they *do* strive to be normal
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[14:24:49] <FrankZappa> I have problems with that pretty often. I encounter a lot of people who are respectful, then a few takers, then I start acting like everyone's a taker
[14:25:06] <FrankZappa> worst is now knowing
[14:30:07] <Lathe_newbie> shoul something like this work? http://abload.de/img/driver_new15cty.png
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[14:39:36] <CaptHindsight> Lathe_newbie: sure, if properly designed :)
[14:44:12] <Lathe_newbie> CaptHindsight: the quastion is, is this design possible, as it is?
[14:45:06] <CaptHindsight> Lathe_newbie: why don't you just buy an H-bridge board for ~$25?
[14:45:21] <Lathe_newbie> CaptHindsight: its a fun project?
[14:45:40] <Lathe_newbie> ive build a h bridge with ir21844 drivers and this works
[14:45:46] <Lathe_newbie> now i wanna add a current chopper
[14:46:24] <CaptHindsight> sounds like a good conversation starter in #electronics
[14:46:58] <archivist> you had a chopper yesterday but shorted the sense to ground
[14:47:41] <Lathe_newbie> archivist: yesterday i just wanted to test my firmware
[14:47:53] <Lathe_newbie> the l298 has to low voltage vor my servos
[14:49:56] <CaptHindsight> http://www.ebay.com/itm/30A-Single-H-Bridge-Motor-Driver-Module-PID-for-Arduino-Smart-Car-E-/26149283259
[14:51:49] <CaptHindsight> http://www.ebay.com/itm/240W-High-power-H-bridge-Motor-Driver-module-Smart-car-Driver-Board-For-Arduino-/181419116379
[14:52:31] <CaptHindsight> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Semiconductor-BTS7960B-43A-Stepper-Motor-Driver-H-Bridge-Drive-PWM-For-Arduino-/301192456807
[14:53:51] <archivist> dunno what voltage he is looking for
[14:55:07] <CaptHindsight> http://www.ebay.com/itm/3v-36V-Dual-15A-H-Bridge-DC-Motor-Driver-30A-for-Robot-Car-Arduino-Compatible-/290934853872
[14:55:23] <CaptHindsight> some of these ^^ were up to 36-50V
[14:56:15] <CaptHindsight> 1,158 results for h bridge of fleabay
[14:58:45] <kfoltman> including the Shenzhen factor? ;)
[15:00:29] <CaptHindsight> laser specs tend to be over rated
[15:00:45] <CaptHindsight> but stepper driver specs tend to be under rated
[15:01:30] <CaptHindsight> if I can't see part numbers I treat it like gambling
[15:02:25] <kfoltman> I mean, if I see a Chinese hobby-grade driver advertised as "50V", I'm afraid of using it with 36V ;)
[15:03:27] <CaptHindsight> I've often seen the opposite as well, it might be max 90V but listed as 50V
[15:03:39] <kfoltman> nice :)
[15:03:57] <kfoltman> maybe some smaller parts (capacitors etc) were a limiting factor
[15:04:43] <CaptHindsight> I was looking for miniature steppers earlier. This is not, but listed as one http://www.ebay.com/itm/5pcs-DC-Motor-Micro-DC-Stepper-Motor-Motor-Miniature-D21mm-X-H25mm-Brand-New-/390861535836
[15:05:14] <kfoltman> looks like a regular DC brushed motor?
[15:05:56] <CaptHindsight> yeah, they tend to cut and paste similar words into their listings
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[15:06:20] <CaptHindsight> it did leave out servo :)
[15:07:04] <kfoltman> oh well
[15:07:15] <kfoltman> "9 needle serial conversion"
[15:07:37] <CaptHindsight> heh pins and needles
[15:07:53] <kfoltman> :)
[15:08:31] <CaptHindsight> often the English textbooks used to teach English in China are wrong or use very odd expressions
[15:09:06] <SpeedEvil> Also, there is a general wierdness.
[15:09:25] <SpeedEvil> In foreign places, for obvious reasons, english is not taught in english.
[15:09:45] <SpeedEvil> It's taught to people who already speak a native tongue well.
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[15:10:13] <SpeedEvil> So you get things like native expressions in that language being translated into english directly where they don't make sense, or are at best jarring.
[15:10:59] <SpeedEvil> This can perpetuate itself if there is significant native-produced 'english' content.
[15:11:16] <SpeedEvil> Indian-english is very noticably different from uk english say.
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[15:12:25] <tjtr33> http://www.engrish.com/
[15:12:47] <CaptHindsight> all they need to do is have a native English speaker read their ad, but they often don't bother
[15:13:23] <kfoltman> SpeedEvil: well, most of Polish teachers of English used to speak with *terrible* accent
[15:13:26] <SpeedEvil> http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/Press-Council-panel-criticizes-Bihar-govt-for-gagging-press/articleshow/18470573.cms - as an example
[15:13:47] <SpeedEvil> NEW DELHI: In a scathing indictment of the Bihar government, a Press Council report has leveled serious charges against the state establishment including attempts to censor the media, misuse its "monopolistic status" for giving advertisements and arm-twisting newspapers to publish positive stories.
[15:14:06] <SpeedEvil> 'arm-twisting' wouldn't be used quite that way in a UK newspaper
[15:14:20] <kfoltman> no?
[15:14:30] <kfoltman> I think I've seen that expression in some US media
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[15:14:57] <kfoltman> but "for giving advertisements" does sound kinda odd to me
[15:15:21] <SpeedEvil> 'Taking advantage of its monopolistic status in handing out advertisements , the government is ostensibly found to be using this status as a lever to arm-twist the media houses with an eye to compel newspaper house managements to willy-nilly function as its undeclared mouthpiece," the panel said. '
[15:16:10] <kfoltman> sounds bit informal
[15:16:19] <kfoltman> or a weird mix of formal and informal
[15:16:30] <SpeedEvil> yeah
[15:16:36] <kfoltman> but at least it's relatively clear what they mean
[15:17:15] <kfoltman> using a lever to arm-twist, hmmm
[15:17:27] <kfoltman> that metaphor might have a little bit of impedance mismatch ;)
[15:17:45] <SpeedEvil> http://travel.cnn.com/mumbai/life/10-indianisms-652344
[15:20:13] <kfoltman> "Do one thing" - I think that is used in Polish as well.
[15:20:34] <kfoltman> with similar meaning as in Indian English
[15:22:52] <kfoltman> English is, generally, very very hard to speak correctly. It's full of nuances.
[15:23:24] <kfoltman> And evil phrasal verbs.
[15:23:55] <CaptHindsight> http://imagebin.ca/v/1Q1Ikg14ljPe government sign in Tokyo
[15:24:07] <SpeedEvil> kfoltman: yeah
[15:24:31] <archivist> but I just got off a train
[15:24:46] <CaptHindsight> polite but not exactly what they wanted to mean
[15:24:48] <kfoltman> http://blog.thisisnotrocketscience.nl/engrish-signs-in-shenzhen-1/ from our trip
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[15:26:10] <CaptHindsight> a popular phrase I'd hear is "in my mind" for "I think"
[15:26:49] <t12> crypto-dualists
[15:26:54] <CaptHindsight> took us a while to realize they weren't schizophrenic
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[15:36:58] <CaptHindsight> http://imagebin.ca/v/1Q1MnhSflkhQ Hong Kong drinking age
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[15:41:31] <CaptHindsight> http://www.brendanmcgetrick.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2007/07/tokyo03.jpg (outdoor smoking shelter) anyone seen these outside of Tokyo yet?
[15:43:12] <tjtr33> theres a box like that in Narita
[15:45:57] <CaptHindsight> nice airport, just don't get dropped off at the wrong terminal
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[15:58:29] <Lathe_newbie> CaptHindsight: i need 120V 9A
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[16:01:21] <tjtr33> yah those small drivers are 50V max, look at more industrial drivers, at least Gecko or better
[16:03:00] <Tom_itx> gecko is good for about 80 iirc
[16:04:38] <tjtr33> look at http://granitedevices.com/ www.copleycontrols.com/‎ www.a-m-c.com/ and whats on ebay
[16:07:42] <Lathe_newbie> tjtr33: cause of this i wanna build it myself
[16:08:48] <tjtr33> brushed dc? with tacho?
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[16:21:55] <tjtr33> 144v 100a diy bdc driver http://www.instructables.com/id/Homemade-100-HP-Motor-Controller-for-an-Electric-C/ ymmv
[16:22:01] <tjtr33> bacl later
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[16:36:33] <Lathe_newbie> tjtr33: brushed dc with encoder
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[16:40:06] <archivist> Lathe_newbie, you need to design for a high stall current
[16:40:17] <Lathe_newbie> archivist: i know
[16:40:31] <Lathe_newbie> 105um Cooper
[16:40:41] <archivist> your devices are only 28A
[16:40:57] <Lathe_newbie> i dont use irf540
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[16:41:36] <archivist> that is what is in your drawing you asked about! /me gives up
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[16:41:49] <IchGuckLive> hi all B)
[16:42:15] <Lathe_newbie> archivist: the question was more about the current chopper
[16:43:05] <Lathe_newbie> will use irf3415
[16:43:08] <archivist> I disagree as it was "shoul something like this work? http://abload.de/img/driver_new15cty.png"
[16:43:41] <Lathe_newbie> archivist: yes i know... question was not very good
[16:44:40] <archivist> your messing with the L298 yesterday and question today makes me say buy a proper servo driver
[16:46:00] <Lathe_newbie> archivist: i have build a test board with ir21844 and irf540 cause they were here, and this is up an running
[16:47:07] <Lathe_newbie> now i wanna add a current chopper
[16:50:22] <kfoltman> how does high side switching work in that circuit?
[16:50:32] <kfoltman> charge pump to generate voltage > V+ + Vgs?
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[16:53:30] <Lathe_newbie> yes
[16:53:50] <Lathe_newbie> ir21844 is a high side driver with charge pump
[16:53:55] <kfoltman> oh I see
[16:54:40] <IchGuckLive> archivist i did riun my mashines for over 5years on this l298 297 stages and still got one in the basement
[16:54:52] * kfoltman has a bunch of irf540 to play with, maybe it wouldn't be a bad idea to try something similar
[16:55:08] <IchGuckLive> cheep and good as 2USD now in the Asia market
[16:55:12] <Lathe_newbie> kfoltman: i dont use irf540
[16:55:19] <kfoltman> what do you use instead?
[16:55:24] <IchGuckLive> full asabmeld boards
[16:55:30] <Lathe_newbie> irf3415
[16:55:38] <Lathe_newbie> cause i have a lot of them
[16:55:47] <kfoltman> it's a bigger mosfet?
[16:56:42] <tjtr33> IchGuckLive, """lathe_newbie> ..: i need 120V 9A"""
[16:56:56] <Lathe_newbie> kfoltman: 140V 42A
[16:57:14] <Lathe_newbie> ähm 150V
[16:57:22] <Lathe_newbie> 0.042 RDS on
[16:57:39] <archivist> tjtr33, I get amused when he tries to sell to the wrong person too
[16:58:47] <IchGuckLive> steppers are only alowed to 82V as they internal require 5V
[16:59:02] <Lathe_newbie> IchGuckLive: i dont wanna use steppers
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[16:59:47] <archivist> IchGuckLive, please be quiet when you dont know what the discussion is about
[17:00:20] <tjtr33> log at http://linuxcnc.mah.priv.at/irc/%23linuxcnc/2014-06-15.html
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[17:03:34] <kfoltman> Lathe_newbie: are you making a servo?
[17:03:54] <archivist> he is
[17:04:53] <IchGuckLive> archivist why are ypou then talking on l297
[17:05:36] <archivist> IchGuckLive, he had an L"(* bridge yesterday NOT 297, you never look for full context
[17:05:38] <Lathe_newbie> kfoltman: yes
[17:05:50] <archivist> L298
[17:05:57] <archivist> still had shift on
[17:06:10] <tjtr33> recap: """lathe_newbie> ..: i need 120V 9A""" && """brushed dc with encoder"""
[17:06:37] <IchGuckLive> ok im off discussion
[17:06:44] <Lathe_newbie> IchGuckLive: i wanted to give a try for l298 yesterday... for testing the mesa firmware i have created... and did it with no schmemattic and had a few mistakes
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[17:08:35] <kfoltman> speaking of motor driver ICs, anyone used L293E?
[17:08:53] -!- dybskiy_ has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
[17:09:01] <kfoltman> I bought it out of sheer curiosity, but, is it useful?
[17:09:26] <IchGuckLive> kfoltman: its max 500ma
[17:09:46] <Lathe_newbie> kfoltman: possible for small steppers
[17:10:01] <IchGuckLive> its the best for small scale motors
[17:10:18] <IchGuckLive> i use it in my CVNA68
[17:10:33] <Lathe_newbie> but for steppers i would use a3986 with additional gate drivers.... so u can use them for more than 50V
[17:10:37] <IchGuckLive> and also on scale worships on radar and ...
[17:10:42] <kfoltman> I think 2A peak?
[17:11:01] <kfoltman> but that would perhaps mean 0.5A per phase per half bridge
[17:11:07] <IchGuckLive> ut then you need more components as only the chip
[17:11:23] <Lathe_newbie> kfoltman: for steppers... take micro step drivers
[17:11:28] <IchGuckLive> i use plyin chip
[17:11:32] * kfoltman worships scales
[17:11:46] <Lathe_newbie> if 40V are enough take something from allegro
[17:11:57] <kfoltman> I fried too many allegro chips ;)
[17:12:16] * kfoltman would rather use something mostly idiot-proof
[17:12:28] <Lathe_newbie> kfoltman: if there is written 48V max take not more than 40^^ else u destroy them
[17:12:41] <Lathe_newbie> if u need more, take a3986 and add external gate drivers
[17:13:23] <Lathe_newbie> allegro chips are quite good... and if there are any problems... the distributors help...
[17:13:26] <kfoltman> Lathe_newbie: I burned them using 12V or so
[17:13:38] <Lathe_newbie> kfoltman: do you have a schematic?
[17:13:41] <kfoltman> Lathe_newbie: but my power and stepper connections were not reliable
[17:13:49] <Lathe_newbie> i just know the a3986
[17:13:50] <kfoltman> I used one of those pololu-like stepsticks
[17:14:29] <IchGuckLive> if you go ebay and search h-brige or l298 l297 you will find real cheep boards
[17:14:51] <kfoltman> IchGuckLive: I have several tb6560(?) boards with big heatsinks, they're unsinkable so far
[17:15:06] <kfoltman> the crappy green ones
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[17:16:42] <kfoltman> they're probably not great when pushed to their limit, but I'm not doing that
[17:16:46] <Lathe_newbie> kfoltman: http://www.allegromicro.com/en/Products/Motor-Driver-And-Interface-ICs/Bipolar-Stepper-Motor-Drivers/A4989.aspx
[17:17:20] <Lathe_newbie> IchGuckLive: why just use half step if micro steps are possible?
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[17:18:10] <IchGuckLive> steppers are most efficiant in half step mode
[17:18:35] <kfoltman> Lathe_newbie: the more steps you use, the less torque you have in some of the intermediate states
[17:18:51] <IchGuckLive> kfoltman: here is my carrier its 1:144 scale http://foengarage.de/cvn68.jpg
[17:18:51] <Lathe_newbie> but they run smoother
[17:19:14] <IchGuckLive> smooth is on clock freq most
[17:19:33] <kfoltman> Lathe_newbie: I'm planning to run mine with microstepping, but only stopping at half steps
[17:19:42] <Lathe_newbie> kfoltman: if u take the a4989 u can bypass the internal gate drivers and add external
[17:20:03] <Lathe_newbie> i was using them with about 100V
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[17:20:31] <IchGuckLive> i always go for gear systems and 400steps so i got the best power
[17:20:39] <IchGuckLive> hi RagingComputer
[17:24:57] <IchGuckLive> example on myne plasma RAGs XY weight near 800lbs NEMA23 3Nm at 5i25/7i76 78V ,Rack pinion T10 Z12
[17:24:58] <kfoltman> Lathe_newbie: looks nice
[17:25:19] <IchGuckLive> so i got 120mm per rotation to solve down
[17:25:29] * kfoltman wonders why the hell he's using same steppers as IchGuckLive
[17:25:40] <IchGuckLive> as most uses also wood sp9ndle on thes mashines i go at 0.01
[17:26:11] <kfoltman> IchGuckLive: http://i.imgur.com/Jbb21hk.jpg
[17:26:11] <IchGuckLive> 120mm/0,01 =12000steps
[17:26:30] <kfoltman> IchGuckLive: my whole machine is probably a tiny fraction of 800lbs
[17:26:31] <IchGuckLive> 12000 /400 = I 30;1
[17:27:26] <IchGuckLive> kfoltman: lots of motor power to that tiny thing
[17:27:47] <IchGuckLive> is it 2005 ballscrews
[17:27:51] <kfoltman> 1605
[17:28:18] <IchGuckLive> so you use a 20/25 timingbelt to get the best pricision at staprate
[17:28:32] <kfoltman> 20/32 gearing
[17:28:42] <kfoltman> unfortunately :)
[17:28:45] <kfoltman> and only Y axis is geared
[17:28:49] <IchGuckLive> is this to match the inch mode
[17:28:53] <kfoltman> this wasn't planned well :)
[17:29:13] <IchGuckLive> cause 20/25 meets 400/0,01
[17:29:25] <kfoltman> that would be *too* nice ;)
[17:29:32] <IchGuckLive> i did a gear shematic html on that
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[17:29:45] <IchGuckLive> http://foengarage.de/gears2.html
[17:29:49] <kfoltman> I can do the math, just didn't have a way to get the right gears cheaply :)
[17:30:14] <IchGuckLive> its a gear i know but the timingbelt is the same only same direction ov movement
[17:30:37] <Lathe_newbie> kfoltman: what looks nice?
[17:30:39] <IchGuckLive> kfoltman: rhere is always a way
[17:30:56] <kfoltman> Lathe_newbie: that allegro chip
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[17:31:13] <kfoltman> Lathe_newbie: at least it's all external mosfets, so they're more likely to fail than the chip itself
[17:31:45] <Lathe_newbie> kfoltman: if u do an mistake on the mosfet side... the chip burns...
[17:31:49] <IchGuckLive> kfoltman: coudt you give me a replay if the gearsystem page works on your system
[17:31:58] <Lathe_newbie> i had a lot of them... when i build the 100V drive
[17:32:58] <kfoltman> IchGuckLive: it doesn't restart after the first cycle I think
[17:33:23] <IchGuckLive> kfoltman: on your mashine 48V is the best price goods arangement
[17:33:48] <kfoltman> IchGuckLive: I'm only using 18V or so
[17:33:50] <IchGuckLive> There is a 5sec delay to the button
[17:34:07] <IchGuckLive> oh bad stepper behavier below 24V
[17:34:26] <IchGuckLive> did you consider that
[17:34:30] <kfoltman> no :)
[17:34:44] <kfoltman> I can't run them at good speed with the current power arrangement anyway
[17:34:50] <IchGuckLive> there is a rule at 5times the netto Step voltige
[17:34:59] <IchGuckLive> for nema23 its 5.1V
[17:35:13] <kfoltman> the cheap drivers only go up to 24V or so
[17:35:13] <archivist> use the highest voltage possible to mitigate inductance effects
[17:36:11] <kfoltman> archivist: I'll get better power supply and maybe better drivers once the mechanical aspects are sorted
[17:36:52] <IchGuckLive> meanwell is your best fiend on that 60xx sized mashines
[17:37:38] <IchGuckLive> http://foengarage.de/mesa_elek.jpg
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[17:39:31] <kfoltman> those high-power switching power supplies for LEDs?
[17:39:47] <kfoltman> I have one, but 12V only, useless
[17:40:20] <IchGuckLive> they got arealy nice one for us cnc freaks at 24/12/5
[17:40:37] <IchGuckLive> so you can go one for all
[17:41:15] <XXCoder1> hey ich
[17:41:30] <IchGuckLive> also a 24/5V for all those cheep boards
[17:41:53] <kfoltman> 24V 5V...
[17:41:57] <IchGuckLive> hi im off for today BYE ;-) so no more bad eng.
[17:42:21] <XXCoder1> later IchGuckLive
[17:46:20] <IchGuckLive> http://www.amazon.com/Power-Supply-Dual-Output-133-4/dp/B005T9JN6E/ref=sr_1_cc_1
[17:46:34] <IchGuckLive> AC to DC Power Supply Dual Output 5 Volt 24 Volt 10 Amp 5a 133.4 Watt
[17:46:57] <IchGuckLive> BYE
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[19:19:06] <Jymmm> Chalk is cool... http://www.viralnova.com/microscopic-level/
[19:22:07] <XXCoder1> yeah
[19:25:00] <t12> spending time on EM puts the scale of an atom in useful terms
[19:25:15] <t12> like a 10 atom thick carbon film floating on water is something uou can see and manipulate by hand
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[19:53:16] <Loetmichel> hrhr, steppers are good generators... the leds are now grilled... -> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i-p8sBqF6w4&feature=youtu.be ... i shouldn have moved the table so fast ;-)
[19:55:50] <DaViruz> when i was very young i discovered that a stepper made a great brake if you short all the leads
[19:56:28] <kfoltman> XXCoder1: how's your machine?
[19:56:44] <kfoltman> XXCoder1: http://i.imgur.com/bkIRNNl.jpg
[19:56:47] <XXCoder1> have nearly all parts, still nonexistant lol lemme show ya pic tho
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[19:57:14] <Loetmichel> DaViruz: i have shot a friend over the handle of an ergometer (fixed bicycle with alternator as brake) once.
[19:57:28] <XXCoder1> kfoltman: https://scontent-a-sjc.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpf1/t1.0-9/s720x720/10355837_452434954901413_6426483331751996077_n.png
[19:57:44] <Loetmichel> he asked me to put on the load (500W halogen lamps). so i switched it hard on
[19:57:58] <XXCoder1> loet lol cool video
[19:57:58] <Loetmichel> -> instant standstill on the pedals ;-)
[19:58:05] <kfoltman> XXCoder1: moving gantry, ambitious (meaning: you're probably asking for trouble ;) )
[19:58:14] <XXCoder1> its pretty tiny
[19:58:15] <t12> need 2color led!
[19:58:34] <kfoltman> t12: indeed
[19:58:42] <kfoltman> the bipolar ones
[19:58:57] <t12> oh both phases!
[19:59:00] <t12> on
[19:59:01] <XXCoder1> interesting that steppers can be used as generators
[19:59:18] <kfoltman> XXCoder1: interesting? usually, a motor = an alternator
[19:59:19] <Loetmichel> XXCoder1: and not bad ones.
[19:59:39] <XXCoder1> would think only spidle and other types can be, but stepper wow
[20:00:02] <Loetmichel> i made a flashlioght of a small floppy stepper, 2 gears, a crank, a 22000µF cap and a bunch of leds with resistors in front.
[20:00:16] <XXCoder1> how effecient was it
[20:00:18] <Loetmichel> 20 secs cranking the thing made 3 minutes light
[20:01:47] <XXCoder1> not bad
[20:01:54] <kfoltman> awesome
[20:02:03] <XXCoder1> wonder what would happen if you added supercap 1 F
[20:06:08] <kfoltman> more cranking would give light for longer?
[20:07:01] <XXCoder1> kf those store bought crank light always have really shitty cap
[20:07:08] <XXCoder1> you would have top upgrade it
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[20:16:18] <alex_joni> tjtr33: if you login then you get a link on the lower left side of linuxcnc.org
[20:16:40] <alex_joni> Jymmm: just like mine :)
[20:16:57] <alex_joni> looks like a clone of the one I got ..
[20:20:46] <XXCoder1> kfoltman: still unsure what to do with design lol
[20:20:59] <XXCoder1> but yeah moving bed would make for much stronger gantry
[20:21:10] <XXCoder1> as you can see in pic that cnc is tiny.
[20:21:21] <kfoltman> do not change design just because another newbie (me) told you to ;)
[20:21:42] <XXCoder1> others did say but I already planned to oplay around with fixed gantry cnc too
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[20:24:31] <kfoltman> I think it's more important to start building it, because chances are that you didn't really think of some things
[20:25:01] <kfoltman> OTOH if you do a 3d model, it probably has a better chance of not having fatal flaws from start
[20:25:13] <XXCoder1> thats why I did it
[20:25:39] <kfoltman> I played a little bit with openscad and sketchup, but didn't really have patience
[20:26:33] <kfoltman> did some 2d cad drawings hoping to manufacture some parts in the laser cutting shop, but ended up doing most of the stuff myself
[20:26:40] <XXCoder1> I used freecad
[20:26:46] <kfoltman> + using ready made parts
[20:26:50] <XXCoder1> its not perfect but hella better than sketchup
[20:27:39] <kfoltman> I use draftsight, it's tolerable
[20:27:56] <kfoltman> but not free-as-in-speech
[20:28:10] <XXCoder1> ried freecad?
[20:28:16] <kfoltman> yes
[20:28:27] <XXCoder1> cool
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[20:31:00] <Jymmm> alex_joni: You have cool chalk?
[20:36:21] <kfoltman> XXCoder1: I have it installed, it's just incomprehensible
[20:36:31] <XXCoder1> it takes bit to understand
[20:36:38] <XXCoder1> if you experenced inkscape it helps
[20:36:45] <XXCoder1> theres "modes of function"
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[20:37:28] <kfoltman> for example, I'm moving a second point, and this causes the first point to switch to a completely random place
[20:39:53] <XXCoder1> lol https://i.chzbgr.com/maxW500/6025678592/h4A2D83D2/
[20:39:56] <XXCoder1> creative repair
[20:40:03] <XXCoder1> hard to find
[20:40:11] <XXCoder1> kf what was you trying to do?
[20:41:22] <alex_joni> Jymmm: ?
[20:41:50] <Jymmm> alex_joni: 2014-06-15.13:16:40 alex_joni: Jymmm: just like mine :)
[20:42:01] <alex_joni> 15:44 #linuxcnc: < Jymmm> alex_joni: My new mini cnc lathe...
[20:42:02] <alex_joni> http://www.amazon.com/Sanven-Metal-Motorized-Machine-Quality/dp/B00H2BV5MM/ref=sr_1_12?s=hi&ie=UTF8&qid=1400934433&sr=1-12
[20:42:29] <XXCoder1> lol nice https://i.chzbgr.com/maxW500/7327293952/h1C91DBD7/
[20:42:30] <Jymmm> alex_joni: Oh, heh, I posted that a LONG time ago =)
[20:42:50] <alex_joni> I got it now ;)
[20:43:03] <Jymmm> you bought that one?
[20:43:27] <alex_joni> a similar one.. from the cool tool
[20:43:34] <Jymmm> lol
[20:43:52] <alex_joni> they suppu linuxcnc controls with theirs
[20:44:11] <alex_joni> http://www.thecooltool.com/produktgruppe.php?language=d&pg_id=7
[20:44:14] <alex_joni> supply
[20:45:25] <alex_joni> I have this one: http://www.thecooltool.com/galls/metallinecnc/bsp24.jpg
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[20:45:53] <alex_joni> sorry.. this: http://www.thecooltool.com/galls/metallinecnc/bsp23.jpg
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[20:46:19] <alex_joni> well.. off to bed for me (got 4h sleep last night.. early flight)
[20:46:25] <alex_joni> night all
[20:47:06] <Jymmm> where ya goin?
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[20:54:18] <Loetmichel> soo, done for today. work for tomorrow evening: cabling, electronics, endswichtes, adjusting. http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=14969
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[20:57:48] <kfoltman> XXCoder1: I'm learning to draw parts using constraint-based approach, it's weird
[20:58:01] <XXCoder1> yeah it is
[20:58:03] <kfoltman> logical, but weird
[20:58:50] <kfoltman> at least I can parameterize the design easily
[20:59:03] <kfoltman> change one constraint and things (mostly) fit in place by themselves
[20:59:12] <XXCoder1> thats awesome aspect
[21:00:59] <kfoltman> OTOH it goes haywire easily
[21:02:56] <SpeedEvil> 'Ok - now where do I find a blank -18 light years long.
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[21:06:52] <jdh> ebay
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[21:12:33] <SpeedEvil> https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/alturn-usa/new-design-pancake-mulitrotor-bldc-for-mulit-copte?ref=categor
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[21:20:57] <Nick001-shop> G76 - anyone around who knows this one?
[21:23:12] <Nick001-shop> I want X to pull straight out at end of Z travel - end of thread - What code and value?
[21:27:40] <SpeedEvil> The above in principle looks very interesting for CNC.
[21:27:52] <SpeedEvil> It's a coreless design of brushless motor.
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[21:36:39] <Deejay> gn8
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[22:03:49] <XXCoder1> HMM
[22:03:55] <XXCoder1> modified my cnc design
[22:03:58] <XXCoder1> uses bit less wood
[22:04:14] <jdh> less wood is almost alwayhs good with boats and cnc
[22:04:25] <XXCoder1> AND it gives me bit more gantry room
[22:05:01] <XXCoder1> 131 mm height from surifical layer to bottom of gantry
[22:05:12] <XXCoder1> 5 inches
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[22:06:42] <SpeedEvil> http://www.maxwellwoodsb.com/TheProcess.html - if making your CNC from wood
[22:07:25] <SpeedEvil> (plywood is already thermally treated largely - so it has the same benefits)
[22:08:58] <FrankZappa> YES
[22:09:00] <FrankZappa> FUCK YES
[22:09:30] <FrankZappa> I'd rather replace my deck with this every decade than use treated lumber
[22:10:16] <FrankZappa> better than Trex composite fiber pulp junk
[22:10:26] <XXCoder1> SpeedEvil: nice but I will use free wood
[22:10:36] <XXCoder1> I have unlimited free wood source
[22:10:50] <SpeedEvil> nothing stopping you treating it
[22:11:04] <XXCoder1> how od I treat it
[22:11:21] <SpeedEvil> See the above
[22:13:13] <XXCoder1> thats pretty nice
[22:13:19] <XXCoder1> dont have anything to do that though
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[22:14:23] <SpeedEvil> some sheetmetal to enclose a kiln - thick foil would work - some fibreglass insulation, a heater, and a fan and you're pretty much done
[22:16:28] <XXCoder1> cool
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[22:21:25] <SpeedEvil> heater = kettle + a length of pipe heated to the desired temp with the steam flowing through it to superheat
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[22:25:48] <XXCoder1> SpeedEvil: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/53432577/cncidea8.png
[22:25:53] <XXCoder1> kfoltman:
[22:26:51] <SpeedEvil> That's a hell of a lever arm on the bottom axis
[22:27:19] <XXCoder1> you gonna explain a bit more
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[22:28:40] <SpeedEvil> There is about 7 or 8 times the distance between the bottom axis ones.
[22:28:46] <SpeedEvil> and the cutter head
[22:29:43] <SpeedEvil> A kilo of side-force will translate into several kilos of up/down force on the bottom axis fixings
[22:30:38] <XXCoder1> distance between blocks for X axis (I'm calling it X axis for now) is 150 mm
[22:30:49] <XXCoder1> height of gantry is 443 mm or so
[22:31:14] <kfoltman> yes?
[22:31:25] <XXCoder1> updated design if curious
[22:31:30] <SpeedEvil> that's not as bad as it looked
[22:31:46] <XXCoder1> yeah scale looks larger but really its tiny cnc
[22:31:53] <kfoltman> XXCoder1: I'm going to bed in 30 seconds ;)
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[22:32:00] <XXCoder1> lol ok night man
[22:32:06] <SpeedEvil> I mean - it looked more like 8:1 than 3:!
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[22:32:09] <SpeedEvil> night kfoltman.
[22:32:23] <XXCoder1> lol yea
[22:32:27] <XXCoder1> so it works I guess
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[22:34:05] <XXCoder1> oh I see an issue with this design
[22:34:16] <XXCoder1> X axis motor gonna need place to be put in
[22:34:51] <XXCoder1> probably have to core out part of that front end 4x4 end wood block
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