#linuxcnc | Logs for 2014-05-25

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[02:05:10] <Jymmm> New digital scope, what am I doing wrong... I engage a laser diode but all I get is a blip when I turn it on/off
[02:05:20] <Jymmm> I can see the diode is on, but no signal on the scope
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[02:18:35] <jdh> what are you hooked upto
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[02:24:23] <pcw_home> AC coupled?
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[02:55:42] <Jymmm> I think AC, let me check
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[03:15:58] <soundhound> Hi guys
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[03:17:29] <soundhound> Can anyone tell me how to lower decimals to 1 for gladevcp spindle widget?
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[03:42:13] <cmorley> yes edit the GLADE file, changing the 'text template' of the relevant Hbar widget to something like %.1f
[03:43:41] <Tom_itx> change <format>"4.1f"</format> to <format>".1f"</format> in the xml file?
[03:44:01] <Tom_itx> or 0.1
[03:44:02] <Tom_itx> ?
[03:45:13] <Tom_itx> Jymmm, what scope did you go with?
[03:45:54] <cmorley> I believe either will work and its easy to try
[03:46:41] <Tom_itx> yeah, somewhere in the code i had to scale mine too iirc
[03:48:52] <Tom_itx> soundhound, my configs are here if you wanna peek: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/cnc/configs/sherline/
[03:49:14] <Tom_itx> display.xml and postgui.hal would be the relevant files
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[03:50:21] <soundhound> Glade uses XML?
[03:50:23] <Tom_itx> ahh, the scaling was done in sherline.hal
[03:50:44] <Tom_itx> no that's pypcv
[03:50:56] <Tom_itx> sry
[03:55:41] <soundhound> Ok ill try that %.1f in the designer, thx
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[04:09:36] <FinboySlick> CaptHindsight: Are you awake this late?
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[05:08:51] <Jymmm> pcw_home: DC, and manual says to set at 10x when using clip, does that sound right?
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[05:19:19] <Jymmm> Ok, this is messed up... If I toss on my dvm I get 4.25VDC. If I probe it I jsut get the blips on the scope
[05:20:48] <Jymmm> singular
[05:20:54] <Jymmm> more like a hickup
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[06:51:04] <Deejay> moin
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[07:32:05] <Loetmichel> Jymmm: scope set to ac?
[07:32:53] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: It's on DC now, I changed it to DC previously and it switched back to AC
[07:33:08] <Loetmichel> hrhr
[07:33:29] <Jymmm> It's a weird scope, I'm not impressed.
[07:33:46] <Loetmichel> i just meant: that sounded like you are measuring the wrong thing.
[07:34:15] <Jymmm> settings, menus, UI are kind a funky on it.
[07:34:46] <Loetmichel> we have a proverb in german: "Wer misst misst Mist! (Und wer viel misst misst mehr Mist!)"
[07:34:47] <Jymmm> The online help pops up at the wrong time, and doesn't even help
[07:35:44] <Loetmichel> "he who measures measures Manure. (and the one who measures much measures more manure!)"
[07:36:07] <Jymmm> lol
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[07:37:05] <Loetmichel> quite literally translated.
[07:37:24] <Jymmm> My first time playing with a digital scope; not what I expected in the least
[07:37:35] <Loetmichel> new scope?
[07:37:43] <Loetmichel> maybe the thing has a fault?
[07:37:54] <Jymmm> I doubt it
[07:38:00] <Jymmm> just funky
[07:38:04] <Loetmichel> damo keyboard circuit for example?
[07:38:09] <Loetmichel> damp
[07:38:27] <Jymmm> I've had it running for 8+ hours
[07:38:44] <Loetmichel> s/damp/dirty then
[07:39:01] <Jymmm> Nah
[07:39:14] <Loetmichel> the worst UI i had ever was on a chinese DM203 scope.
[07:39:39] <Loetmichel> that seems to have evolved from an MP3-player ;-)
[07:39:43] <Jymmm> It's just a low end scope.... Agilent rebadged rigol
[07:39:59] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=14319
[07:40:06] <Loetmichel> that thing is even lower end
[07:40:15] <Loetmichel> but it does what is advertized
[07:40:19] <Loetmichel> -z+s
[07:40:42] <Jymmm> That actually looks nicer UI
[07:41:03] <Jymmm> let me grab a usb stick...
[07:41:15] <Loetmichel> althoug it has only 30 Ms/s you can see 12 Mhz more or less fine
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[07:43:03] <Loetmichel> but for less than 130 eur its a fine tool (even with the strange ui/keys) http://www.ebay.de/itm/NEW-Mini-Digital-Storage-Color-Oscilloscope-Metal-Handheld-Scope-DS-203-Nano-A-/380456969542?pt=BI_Oscilloscopes&hash=item589500a546
[07:44:35] <Einar1> Jymm: Did you compensate the probe?
[07:45:43] <Jymmm> yep
[07:46:07] <Loetmichel> i bought it for the company, because the other scope we have costs about 150kEur (tectronics 4 channel 1 ghz) ... and measurung high voltage is a bit frightening.
[07:46:37] <Loetmichel> the 131eur pice can be destroyed by accident without worrying too mich ;-)
[07:47:23] <Jymmm> http://imagebin.org/311718
[07:47:42] <Jymmm> Just to grab that, I had to go thru 5 menus
[07:48:14] <Jymmm> it's just real kludgy to operate
[07:48:52] <Loetmichel> hu? imagebin is flagged as attacking website in FF?
[07:49:03] <Einar1> It looks like you may not have a good ground point. Avoid using pigtails! Always connect directly to a good ground.
[07:49:27] <Loetmichel> the trace on the pic liiks like a bad case of ringing (or an uncompensated probe)
[07:50:13] <Einar1> He said he compensated it. And yes, it's ringing. At a faster scan rate that will probably be obvious.
[07:50:44] <Jymmm> I'll recompensate and recalibrate the scope later on.
[07:50:54] <Einar1> If probe is comped it can/will ring if ground through a piece of wire.
[07:52:07] <Jymmm> I clipped the pigtail to return of what I was probing
[07:52:25] <Jymmm> ^the
[07:52:31] <Einar1> Or of course it can be actual. For example if the thing he measures drive a capacitive load through an inductor (wire).
[07:53:10] <Jymmm> I'll hve to pull the controller board out tomorrow and measure from there.
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[07:53:17] <Loetmichel> Einar1: i have seen that worse.
[07:53:45] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=14325
[07:53:53] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=14328
[07:53:55] <Einar1> The scope probably have a LP filtering that can be used if the high frequencies are not of interest for what he is measuring.
[07:54:02] <Loetmichel> smps fets
[07:54:37] <Einar1> Boiiinggg!!!
[07:55:04] <Loetmichel> exactly
[07:55:08] <Einar1> That's a school example of ringing! :-)
[07:55:32] <Loetmichel> and we were wondering why the printer falls through EMI testing ;-)
[07:55:59] <Einar1> Ohh! Did it? .... ;-)
[07:56:27] <Loetmichel> s/falls throug/fails
[07:57:14] <Loetmichel> was a BIT of work to get it stop the ringing.
[07:57:49] <Loetmichel> and i am still not sure that the caps i added will not overload the SMPS fets in the long run
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[07:58:27] <Loetmichel> its never that great to work on a circuit you havent designed yourseld and have no plans on whatever
[07:58:29] <Einar1> I do courses in fieldbus network fault finding. So I have some pretty interesting scope shots of ringing, reflections, stublines and impedance mismatches.
[07:58:59] <Einar1> It can be quite a puzzle to figure out why things look the way they do on a scope.
[07:59:24] <Loetmichel> i wonder how HP got this thing through CE certification.
[07:59:31] <Einar1> Especially when a digital scope may throw you a screwed ball too.
[08:00:25] <Einar1> They don't need to test it. They only need some boss to put his balls in a vice and signature on a document.
[08:00:38] <Loetmichel> yeah, i remember an old GOULD DSO... that had the habit of throwing ghost peaks in the mass. (aliasing effects i would think)
[08:01:09] <Loetmichel> Einar1: HP is a bit big a company to NOT test it
[08:01:31] <Loetmichel> there is no boss that is willing to expose his balls that far
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[08:02:50] <Loetmichel> i suppose they only measured it on fully charged battery
[08:02:54] <Einar1> I have pushed 3 products through the equivalent to Germanische Lloyds. And I am thoroughly underwhelmed!!
[08:02:58] <Loetmichel> THEN it is quiet
[08:03:03] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: what pocket scope is that?
[08:03:18] <archivist> current boss has no balls
[08:03:19] <Loetmichel> as soon as the battery drains it starts ringing
[08:03:40] <Loetmichel> Jymmm: search in ebay for DS203
[08:03:53] <Loetmichel> see the link above
[08:04:04] <Einar1> Is that the "big brother" of DSO Nano?
[08:04:36] <Loetmichel> no idea
[08:04:58] <Loetmichel> its obviously made of a MP3/MP4 player
[08:06:01] <Loetmichel> archivist: the balls just sit a bit higher ;-)
[08:06:06] <Einar1> One of these: http://www.seeedstudio.com/depot/Oscilloscopes-c-63_65/?ref=side
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[08:10:38] <Loetmichel> it is from seedstudio
[08:10:44] <Loetmichel> but an older model i think
[08:11:46] <Loetmichel> dso quad has the same casing
[08:11:58] <Einar1> Loetmichel: Looking at that printerport it looks like the driver chip have a supply problem. It can do for a short time, then gives up. I've seen similar on line interfaces where the DC/DC converter of the galvanic barrier is near dead.
[08:13:13] <Loetmichel> Einar1: my pics werent from the ports
[08:13:22] <Loetmichel> that is a portable printer
[08:13:29] <Loetmichel> with battery supply
[08:14:08] <Loetmichel> and i measured the drains of the switching voltage converterst for supplying the printer and charging the battery
[08:14:39] <Loetmichel> (or was it the sources? cant remember the circuits now)
[08:15:45] <Einar1> Ahh.. I see it now: 10V / Div. Obviously not a digital signal.
[08:16:46] <Loetmichel> it seems hp has desinged these circuits with no headroom at all.
[08:17:16] <Einar1> I bought the 1Ch scope from Seedstudio in hope it could be used for fault finding on cars. But sorry, no. It can't be used for anything but basic teaching of scope principles.
[08:17:17] <Loetmichel> (how do one say "auf kante genäht" in english?)
[08:17:17] <archivist> headroom costs money
[08:18:18] <Einar1> Sewn at the edge?
[08:18:40] <Loetmichel> i meant as a proverb ;)
[08:19:21] <Loetmichel> like i said: the pribnter is fine when the battery is full and its supplied from the mains
[08:19:35] <Einar1> Finished off? I don't know the proverb. But it's like a rug where the edges are not sewn. It will disintegrate. Maybe?
[08:19:39] <Loetmichel> it only rings when it has to charge the battery AND print at the same time
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[08:22:10] <Loetmichel> and as the company i work for does Tempest proofing and certifying.... we have to deal with MUCH lower limits than CE in terms of EMI radiation
[08:24:03] <Einar1> I imagine that a big problem! I would think the strategy is to make the whole system PC, printer, monitor .... all inside a Faraday's cage. So including screened cable between. But that may not be enough?
[08:24:39] <Loetmichel> Einar1: "auf kante genäht" references the overlap you have normaly at the inside of sewn seams. if you omit that overlap (for example because you have gained a few pounds) you have no headroom left.
[08:25:13] <Loetmichel> if you desing a pive of clothing that way its just barely coping with its job.
[08:25:30] <Loetmichel> Einar1: we do
[08:25:44] <Einar1> I see. That makes sense. We don't have that proverb. (Until now ;-)
[08:26:45] <Einar1> Do you have your own EMC testing lab?
[08:26:58] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=14778 <- thats a laptop PSU when i am finished with it...
[08:27:01] <Loetmichel> for example
[08:27:08] <Loetmichel> yes, two
[08:27:29] <Loetmichel> one for german "zone" certifying and wone for nato/sdip27
[08:27:33] <Loetmichel> one
[08:27:52] <Einar1> Wow!! Can I come and play with you?
[08:27:59] <Loetmichel> dont think so
[08:28:50] <Loetmichel> you have to have a "background check" by german MAD to enter the measurement chambers ;-)
[08:30:28] <Loetmichel> Einar1: thats a commercial NAS that i have modified: http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=14184
[08:30:51] <Loetmichel> (just made an outer box for it and added some powersupply filters)
[08:31:17] <Einar1> What metal?
[08:31:24] <Loetmichel> aluminium 1,5mm
[08:31:58] <Loetmichel> our PC enclosures are custom made from 3mm aluminium...
[08:32:07] <Einar1> Did it go through a salt mist test first, then an EMC test *afterwards* ?
[08:32:20] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=14145
[08:32:28] <Loetmichel> no, why it should?
[08:32:45] <Loetmichel> these are not rugged, just zoned
[08:33:10] <Loetmichel> and yes, all the corners are welded shut
[08:33:40] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=12010
[08:34:02] <Loetmichel> thats a complete system, cpu, monitor, keyboard, mouse, printer, scanner.
[08:34:10] <Loetmichel> all shielded
[08:34:45] <Loetmichel> ... and on thet table is about 18 to 20k eur
[08:34:47] <Loetmichel> ;-)
[08:34:49] <Einar1> Neat work! Are you doing the welding?
[08:35:19] <Loetmichel> no, the cases are made by an external manufacturer
[08:35:24] <Loetmichel> i just do prototypes
[08:36:02] <Loetmichel> the monitoprs are especially bad.
[08:36:04] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=14412
[08:36:21] <Loetmichel> 144 m3 screws... and that is just on the outside ;-)
[08:37:14] <Einar1> Are the holes punched or do you do them in your router?
[08:37:46] <Loetmichel> in series: punched
[08:37:52] <Loetmichel> prototypes: router
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[08:38:42] <Loetmichel> that was a monitor stand i desinged for a customer: http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=10788
[08:39:23] <Loetmichel> ... who (as an afterthougt) wanted to have the heigt of the 7kg monitor adjustable...
[08:39:29] <Einar1> When routing, do you use 1010 aluminum? I find that it clogs up the cutters real quick if not using suds.
[08:39:31] <Loetmichel> so i got working.
[08:39:40] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=10791
[08:39:41] <Loetmichel> :-)
[08:40:39] <Loetmichel> normally i use sheets of AlMg3
[08:40:55] <Loetmichel> dont know the number of that stuff, maybe 6061?
[08:41:31] <Einar1> 6061 is nice to cut. And if I remember correctly also weldable.
[08:42:41] <Einar1> But I think not easy to get in sheetmetal around here. Actually it's not easy to get anything but 10?? sheets here.
[08:42:50] <Loetmichel> lately i had to make some Cable clamps for keyboards as an "external repair"... and had some spare 7075... result: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9u_ChO1AKYY
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[08:44:22] <Einar1> 7075 cuts nice. But try to weld it!! ;-(
[08:45:04] <Loetmichel> i buy the sheets as "small standard size" from the local metal supplier, means i call them and order two small sheets, cut to 5 strips 400mm*1000mm each" and then drive there the next day and fetch them
[08:46:31] <Loetmichel> btw: that vide: it is MUCH nicer to sit in the office and look at the monitor with a cup of coofe in the hand than sitting in the workshop with hearing protection on and metal flakes in the coffee ;-)
[08:49:06] <Loetmichel> ant the two 2m by 1m sheets cost about 150 eur in 1,5mm, so not THAT expensive
[08:51:14] <Einar1> I bought aluminum sheets in Sweden at half the price I pay here. And the damn stuff is produced here!!! We are being screwed!
[08:54:37] <Einar1> I got a package from Hing Kong the other day. Ebay # 261374073967 . It's raining today, so I thought I will try to finish the production of the stepper drivers. See if I can fix the design flaw so I can use them in my LinuxCNC redo of the Emco lathe.
[08:56:22] <Einar1> I hope they can be salvaged. Some of the problems I cannot understand. Like no standoffs on the PCB. It is just held by the pins of the controller chip.
[08:56:59] <Loetmichel> its from china. what did you expect?
[08:57:04] <Einar1> So if the stepper driver is mounted on the lathe, the vibrations will surely kill it in short time.
[08:57:33] <Einar1> At the price I must admit I expected (or at least hoped for) a stepper driver kit. ;-)
[08:58:45] <Einar1> The fastening of the PCB is easy. Just 4 plastic standoffs. That's why I can't understand. They cost nothing.
[09:01:40] <Einar1> If all I need is 1 capacitor, 4 Schottky diodes and 4 plastic standoffs, I'm good. That lathe needs to be low cost. I will not use it much since I got the Boxford lathe up & running.
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[09:18:45] <zeeshan> einar1 thanks for your help last night.
[09:18:50] <zeeshan> the dial indicator was sticky.
[09:18:53] <zeeshan> :D
[09:20:00] <zeeshan> Most aluminum alloys are weldable, but there are a fair number of them that are not, including 7075 aluminum. The reason 7075 is singled out in this example is that it is one of the highest strength aluminum alloys. When designers and welders look for an aluminum alloy to use, many will start by reviewing a table that lists all of the aluminum alloys and their strengths. But what those newcomers d
[09:20:03] <zeeshan> ^^
[09:20:16] <zeeshan> i know welding 7075 will hold together
[09:20:22] <zeeshan> but if you put any serious load on it, it fails pretty easily
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[09:31:44] <Loetmichel> zeeshan: 7075 is kind of "brittle"
[09:32:04] <Loetmichel> not ductile like other aluminium alloys
[09:32:15] <Loetmichel> so its like welding cast steel
[09:32:23] <Deejay> thats why i like 7075! ;)
[09:32:27] <Loetmichel> "it may hold, but it may fall off"
[09:32:31] <Deejay> not like chewing gum
[09:33:49] <Loetmichel> if i had to join 7075 parts i would try brazing instead of welding
[09:33:55] <Loetmichel> (same for cast iron)
[09:34:09] <archivist> cast steel is ductile, cast iron is brittle
[09:34:16] <Loetmichel> MUTCH easier joint ;-)
[09:34:26] <Loetmichel> archivist: i meant cast iron
[09:34:33] <Loetmichel> like machine beds
[09:35:15] <Loetmichel> is there any cast steel that isnt hammered afterwards?
[09:35:15] <archivist> I put a bit of cast iron in a forge to get it to red heat to weld
[09:35:55] <archivist> cast steel man hole covers anr not hammered
[09:36:38] <archivist> very little hammering done these days afaik
[09:37:19] <archivist> or are you talking about forged parts
[09:37:33] <archivist> eg bolt heads
[09:38:55] <Einar1> 7075 aluminum contains zink. So is basically not weldable.
[09:39:44] <archivist> been handed a new 20mm die to thread some parts, it has no clearance and will not cut!
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[09:44:31] <Loetmichel> i meant forged
[09:45:09] <Loetmichel> didnt know the term for "forming steel red hot with a hammer/a mold that presses down"
[09:45:23] <Einar1> Zeeshan: Sticky indicator? Another example why a measuring instrument should never be trusted until proven good. It can usually be saved. Unless like one of mine that probably have been in an overtightened clamp. Cleaning and lubing made no difference.
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[09:45:44] <archivist> often production forging is done with a wire feed
[09:46:47] <Einar1> Can a 8.8 bolt (or better) be forged and retain it's good properties?
[09:47:00] <archivist> least material use per part, fast production etc
[09:47:09] <Loetmichel> what i wanted to say: i dont know of any cast STEEL that isnt formed after casting
[09:47:39] <Einar1> Conrods.
[09:47:43] <archivist> manhole covers are true cast only
[09:47:58] <Loetmichel> unlike cast iron which is more or less done after casting
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[09:49:00] <archivist> Einar1, the forging process actually gets the right grain structure for strength
[09:51:28] <Einar1> Usually, yes. But I believe some steels are not forgeable. What I was thinking is could a high grade bolt be forged to a crankshaft and be strong. Another question is would it be good as a bearing surface.
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[09:53:45] <Einar1> Another use of manhole covers are making waffles: http://www.nrk.no/ho/verdens-storste-vaffeljern-1.3127827
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[10:03:19] <tom_R2E3> hi
[10:03:38] <tom_R2E3> i'm trying to use motion.feed-hold with an external button
[10:04:00] <tom_R2E3> i've set it up using toggle, and everything works, except
[10:04:34] <tom_R2E3> you have to hold the button in for the feed to actually hold....
[10:05:01] <tom_R2E3> toggle is changing the state, but motion.feed-hold seems to ignore this
[10:05:04] <archivist> you could use a latch comp
[10:05:49] <tom_R2E3> do the motion components behave differently then?
[10:05:58] <archivist> no idea
[10:06:05] <tom_R2E3> oh
[10:06:23] <tom_R2E3> ok, i'll look up latch
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[10:50:43] <_abc_> Hello. I run an install of linuxcnc from the lts 10.04 live cd. I have issues with booting and usb stick mounting. Also there is some weird ram corruption when using vim. Does anyone know of fixes?
[10:51:41] <Loetmichel> _abc_: have you tested the machine for hardware errors (i.e runnung memtest for more than 24 hrs at least)?
[10:51:59] <_abc_> Specifically: 1) usb stick inserted gets mounted ro. I have to remove and reinsert to get it to be rw. 2) Window manager comes up without decorations on 1st boot, 50% of the time. Restarting session fixes this. 3) vim causes text file corruption and screen corruption in any terminal emulator under X11 and also in text mode console. This was confirmed for original vim and also for vim compiled from source on that machine.
[10:52:14] <_abc_> Loetmichel: Yes, the machine is dual boot and it runs fine. Also disks are okay.
[10:52:27] <Loetmichel> dual boot means: windows on the otbher side?
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[10:52:32] <Loetmichel> that means noting
[10:52:36] <_abc_> Not just Windows, another linux too
[10:52:38] <_abc_> 3 systems
[10:52:56] <_abc_> The 10.04 gets used infrequently to test drivers, this is a back up machine not a main linuxcnc driver
[10:53:04] <_abc_> And it ie VERY ANNOYING like that
[10:53:05] <Loetmichel> i had it repeadedly that a machine works fine with windos wenn used not much ram but linux crashes more or less instantly
[10:53:22] <_abc_> That is very rare ime.
[10:53:31] <_abc_> Also I am not new to linux so ...
[10:54:04] <_abc_> Also I did the memtest thing and it worked okay for half a day at least. Problem is some software contention. Maybe not enough ram.
[10:54:08] <Loetmichel> i think that depends on WHERE the fault in the ram is
[10:54:20] <_abc_> Well memtest will test ALL of it so it can't be that.
[10:54:25] <Loetmichel> how much has it?
[10:54:31] <_abc_> Also Windows is not known to be delicate about filling ram
[10:54:48] <_abc_> I think 1G but can be less. Did not look last time, just marked it down as a 'to do' item.
[10:54:57] <_abc_> It will be 512MB to 1G
[10:55:05] <Loetmichel> 1g would be perfectly OK
[10:55:09] <_abc_> So 512 768 or 1G
[10:55:13] <Loetmichel> 512m will work also
[10:55:21] <Loetmichel> less: not so much ;-)
[10:55:27] <_abc_> I think I have swap configured too never looked
[10:55:48] <_abc_> I expect it to slow down or such and maybe get 'stuck' while it swaps but I do not expect missing window decorations and such
[10:56:03] <_abc_> Btw speed is very okay, even with compiz enabled with all bells and whistles animation etc
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[10:56:12] <_abc_> It has no hw accel in graphics
[10:56:16] <_abc_> So no complaints there.
[10:56:33] <_abc_> What about the ro mount on 1st insertion of sticks? That is WEIRD?
[10:58:34] <Loetmichel> sounds like the usual mechaninm fopr damageed filesystems
[10:58:51] <Loetmichel> maybe its reading garbage from the sticks the first time
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[10:59:46] <Loetmichel> did you check the md5 sums for the iso?
[10:59:54] <_abc_> yes
[10:59:59] <Loetmichel> did you run the "test the cd" feature at booting?
[11:00:01] <_abc_> Also the 2nd time and on it works fine
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[11:00:33] <_abc_> So it is not reading garbage and the hw is okay since the same stick automounts fine on the same machine 5 minutes before and after on another linux version
[11:00:37] <_abc_> And on windows too
[11:00:48] <Loetmichel> (actually i dont know it fhat works booting from thumbdrive)
[11:01:07] <_abc_> I did the test the cd from the cd I think. Long time ago.
[11:01:22] <Loetmichel> try booting from a CD
[11:01:24] <_abc_> This install was done last Summer I think, or before that.
[11:01:54] <Loetmichel> maybe there is some USB driver issue that reads garbage sometimes and corrupts the system?
[11:02:03] <_abc_> Loetmichel: Why? I already know it is only the software. I am looking for opportunities to tweak the software. F.ex. inserting sleeps in the boot scripts to delay the start of copiz in case it causes trouble due to ram contention
[11:02:32] <Loetmichel> begause that SHOULD not happen to a working live CD
[11:02:33] <_abc_> Loetmichel: If it is, then usb subsystem needs updating in lts 10.04 and that is a nono since it may destroy the rtlinux subsystem
[11:02:40] <Loetmichel> so there IS something wrong
[11:02:46] <_abc_> In software... for sure.
[11:03:10] <Loetmichel> nad if you rule out hardware it MUS have to do with the image
[11:03:39] <Loetmichel> and inserting delays here and there may work but cure only the symtoms, not the disease
[11:03:47] <_abc_> Yes, I am aware.
[11:04:07] <Loetmichel> hmmm
[11:04:14] <_abc_> Has anyone compiled rtlinux + linuxcnc for debian here? 2.6 kernels? Any howto which may save me time?
[11:04:23] <Loetmichel> thinking about it: which graphics chip/which cpu in there?
[11:04:24] <_abc_> (this shows I am prepared to move on)
[11:04:42] <_abc_> It's some celeron and the graphics card is onboard generic intel probably
[11:04:47] <Loetmichel> i had some issues with S3 grapic chips once IIRC
[11:04:47] <_abc_> Nothing special
[11:04:58] <_abc_> It is not S3
[11:05:01] <Loetmichel> that wree something similar erratic behaviour
[11:05:29] <Loetmichel> was an idea
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[12:04:14] <SpeedEvil> I wonder how much the 9 raptor mars colonial transporter could lift to earth from martian surface.
[12:05:41] <_abc_> ... SpeedEvil the questions you ask, I'd swear you are already a colon posting from there.
[12:05:46] * _abc_ checks latency to SpeedEvil
[12:06:23] <_abc_> Hmm, not there yet... sheesh.
[12:06:30] <SpeedEvil> Well - methane/oxygen is one of the payloads intended for in-situ propellant manufacture.
[12:07:15] <_abc_> Bring cows.
[12:09:04] * kfoltman doesn't think SpeedEvil is a colon
[12:09:22] <_abc_> COLONIST. Not COLON ;)
[12:09:23] <kfoltman> even he might have a difficult period and might even fall in a comma ;)
[12:09:46] <kfoltman> or just dash out from the channel
[12:09:53] <SpeedEvil> Hmm - ommiting some details.
[12:10:14] <SpeedEvil> Mars-earth delta-v is about the same as earth-LEO.
[12:10:17] <SpeedEvil> If you aerobrake.
[12:10:33] <_abc_> Hm. Did you see the fluffy parachute thing Nasa wants to test for this?
[12:10:41] <_abc_> Crazy large piece of cloth on a rocket?
[12:10:51] <_abc_> SpeedEvil:?
[12:11:21] <SpeedEvil> So, perhaps 50 tons from mars-LEO
[12:11:45] <SpeedEvil> yeah - I find it infuriating this wasn't tested 50 years ago.
[12:11:58] <SpeedEvil> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MOOSE as I regularly post
[12:11:59] <_abc_> They did not have anything large enough to put under way then?
[12:12:20] <SpeedEvil> Oh - you mean for mars aerobraking
[12:13:06] <_abc_> Yes
[12:13:12] <_abc_> I am looking for the pic, can't find it now.
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[12:16:03] <_abc_> Meanwhile this must be the hacking project of the century http://spacenews.com/article/civil-space/40659nasa-blesses-volunteer-effort-to-bring-vagabond-heliophysics-satellite-home
[12:18:55] <SpeedEvil> http://gcd.larc.nasa.gov/projects/hypersonic-inflatable-aerodynamic-decelerator/ is probably what you're thinking of
[12:19:22] <SpeedEvil> But that looks practically identical to concepts from the 60s that were developed alongside MOOSE
[12:28:48] <_abc_> SpeedEvil: I think that's the one
[12:30:10] <SpeedEvil> http://www.astronautix.com/craft/paracone.htm
[12:31:09] <SpeedEvil> http://www.astronautix.com/craft/saver.htm
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[12:32:08] <SpeedEvil> Ah - the one I was really thinking of.
[12:32:10] <SpeedEvil> http://www.astronautix.com/craft/irdt.htm
[12:32:17] <SpeedEvil> Even tested - damn near identical looking
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[12:46:31] <_abc_> It is well known that NASA is recycling older designs now
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[12:49:47] <_abc_> I wonder if anyone here runs linuxcnc on beaglebone...
[12:50:02] <_abc_> MachineKit
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[13:17:58] <malcom2073> _abc_: I do
[13:18:14] <_abc_> You do what please? Been disconnected, time passed?
[13:18:21] <_abc_> Ah ok
[13:18:24] <malcom2073> Oh, run machinekit on a bbb
[13:18:25] <_abc_> Headless or with hdmi
[13:18:34] <malcom2073> HDMI right now, but my intent is to go headless
[13:18:48] <_abc_> Is it okay? What drivers and what driver connection?
[13:18:54] <malcom2073> Running a printer, not a mill
[13:18:59] <_abc_> Ah
[13:19:01] <malcom2073> Gecko G540 drives
[13:19:15] <malcom2073> and a PMDX-432 bbb cape
[13:19:17] <_abc_> Connected to what? GPIO? USB serial adapter board for cnc?
[13:19:29] <malcom2073> It uses the PRU to contorl the GPIO
[13:19:33] <malcom2073> control*
[13:19:47] <_abc_> http://www.pmdx.com/PMDX-432 ok
[13:19:52] <malcom2073> yeah that one
[13:20:13] <_abc_> Wow $117 is a bit steep for this
[13:20:14] <_abc_> imho
[13:21:08] <_abc_> The vertical socket is for a Dallas puck or for clock battery backup?
[13:21:24] <malcom2073> RTC battery
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[13:40:03] <malcom2073> _abc_: There are quite a few other capes you can use for control, Ithink there's a level converter cape that just bring pure I/O out to a 5v parallel port
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[14:18:38] <revo14> hello, i have a nema 23 but i dont know how i should setup
[14:19:41] <archivist> nema 23 is merely a a physical size specification
[14:20:39] <archivist> so what is the real question
[14:23:08] <_methods> what is the air speed velocity...............
[14:23:11] <revo14> i dont know how to use linuxcnc so i have to go to pncconf or stepconf?
[14:23:55] <archivist> stepconf for a stepper system usually
[14:24:16] <archivist> are you using a parallel port
[14:24:44] <revo14> i have a laptop
[14:25:01] <_methods> nice
[14:25:32] <revo14> i can use it or i need old computer with parallel port?
[14:25:39] <archivist> laptops are often not usable
[14:26:08] <revo14> but can I use it?
[14:26:41] <_methods> are you using a breakout board that uses parallel?
[14:26:48] <revo14> i have a month that i did buy this motor kit but i cant use it
[14:27:04] <revo14> yes she is with that port
[14:27:15] <_methods> so you need a parallel port then
[14:27:41] <_methods> what did you buy?
[14:27:43] <revo14> but i have a adaptador
[14:27:51] <_methods> do you have link to the kit?
[14:27:56] <revo14> port parallel to usb
[14:28:15] <archivist> usb cannot be used
[14:29:05] <revo14> but i have seem breakuot board with usb port
[14:29:15] <_methods> it's probably for power
[14:29:17] <_methods> 5v
[14:29:44] <archivist> usb itself is too slow for realtime machine control
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[14:30:18] <_methods> if you have a link to the kit you've purchased we will probably be able to provide you with more help
[14:30:36] <revo14> ok one moment please
[14:30:44] <_methods> more information = more better
[14:32:40] <revo14> https://www.buildyourcnc.com/category/elcombo
[14:33:26] <revo14> for example this web i can read with interfase USB or port parallel
[14:34:13] <_methods> so you purchased the usb interface board?\
[14:35:36] <_methods> https://www.buildyourcnc.com/Item/electronicsAndMotors-electronic-component-USB-Controller-Breakout
[14:35:39] <revo14> no i have with port parallel but i wnat to tell you they sell with usb too
[14:37:24] <_methods> god damn that site is terrrible
[14:37:46] <_methods> so is this your breakout board?
[14:37:48] <_methods> https://www.buildyourcnc.com/Item/electronicsAndMotors-parallel-breakout-relay
[14:39:02] <revo14> im looking for what i have buy
[14:39:10] <_methods> wtf why can't you just download a pdf of their pinout
[14:39:27] <_methods> they have a bunch of shitty pics you have to click on to view the pinout
[14:40:50] <revo14> this kit is the same mine
[14:40:54] <revo14> http://www.ebay.com/itm/German-Ship-3-axis-Nema23-stepper-motor-425oz-in-Drivers-CNC-kit-Longs-Motor-/271429106349?pt=UK_BOI_Industrial_Automation_Control_ET&hash=item3f326f7aad
[14:44:35] <pcw_home> looks like a standard parallel port breakout, so if you have the parallel port pinout info
[14:44:36] <pcw_home> you should be able to setup linuxcnc with stepconf fairly easily
[14:45:37] <_methods> pci-e parallel cards are cheap and old computers are cheap
[14:46:52] <revo14> yes im looking for that computer but could you tell me how i can do it the setup
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[14:47:16] <_methods> you need the pinout for your breakout board
[14:47:47] -!- jduhls has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
[14:48:02] <_methods> it should have come out with a paper showing the pinout
[14:48:12] <revo14> for example step time, step space, direction hold, direction setup i dont know what i put there
[14:48:14] <_methods> or there should be some markings on the breakout board that you can search on google for
[14:49:12] <revo14> really im very confused
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[14:49:51] <pcw_home> 5000,5000,20000,20000 should work for almost anything
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[14:50:30] <pcw_home> (for step time, step space, direction hold, direction setup)
[14:50:53] <_methods> http://assets.overclock.net.s3.amazonaws.com/b/b5/b547448d_vbattach58776.png
[14:51:03] <_methods> that's a pic of something that should be similar to yours
[14:51:34] <_methods> without seeing "your" pinout i can't be certain
[14:53:21] <revo14> can i send you a pic here?
[14:53:31] <_methods> sure drop a imgur link
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[15:25:15] <revo14> _methods http://imgur.com/edit
[15:26:40] <_methods> think you got a bad link there
[15:27:24] <revo14> but i can see it
[15:27:33] <revo14> do you can ?
[15:27:36] <_methods> no
[15:27:46] <_methods> that's a link that only you will be able to see
[15:27:58] <_methods> http://imgur.com/gallery/zHFkJcd
[15:28:06] <_methods> that is an example of how your link should look
[15:28:16] <revo14> http://imgur.com/Aibz5MQ
[15:28:30] <_methods> ok
[15:28:32] <_methods> much better
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[15:28:57] <revo14> im lerning sorry im new with linux
[15:29:03] <_methods> np
[15:30:01] <_methods> looks like a knock off of the KL-DB25
[15:30:50] <_methods> and you have the sepper drivers
[15:31:00] <_methods> http://www.kelinginc.net/KL-9082WithDB25.pdf
[15:31:13] <_methods> that should work for you right there
[15:31:34] <revo14> http://imgur.com/FHyKv5W
[15:32:47] <revo14> the driver i DM542A
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[15:34:21] <_methods> i think your signal wires might what is that jumper for on your signal wires?
[15:35:33] <revo14> i just want to do a test
[15:36:31] <revo14> but yet I could not turn a motor,
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[15:39:19] <_methods> ah ok that's the 5v going to pul, dir, and ena
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[15:40:38] <_methods> looks like you have it wired correctly from what i can see
[15:40:47] <_methods> maybe one of these pros in here can help you some more
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[15:43:51] <revo14> this diagram is for DM542A or other driver?
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[16:10:29] <revo14> _methods: this diagram is for DM542A?
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[16:14:57] <archivist> "this" is undefined
[16:20:29] <revo14> well archivist i dont know what can i put there
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[16:24:51] <archivist> a reference to the circuit you are talking about
[16:31:53] <revo14> i dont know what i pu t in linuxcnc stepconf
[16:33:40] <archivist> please ask more specific questions we cannot guess which part you are stuck on
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[16:39:06] <IchGuckLive> hi all B)
[16:40:05] <IchGuckLive> hi revo14
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[16:40:25] <IchGuckLive> the dm542a are reakly cool and mosdt used in stepper systems
[16:41:27] <IchGuckLive> revo14: still online ?
[16:42:10] <IchGuckLive> for standard you need to go for a 5V pullup support and the USB gets the driver gnded
[16:42:31] <IchGuckLive> this will lead in full speed on a 10foot cable max
[16:43:01] <somenewguy> sanity check guys, if I have stepper motor energized and manually rotate it 1 full turn and feel 100 discreete jumps, it is a 200 ppr motor, right?
[16:43:07] <XXCoder> hey cnc master
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[16:44:34] <IchGuckLive> somenewguy: do not turn on power on
[16:44:36] <somenewguy> welcome back otherh ahalf
[16:44:54] <IchGuckLive> somenewguy: it shoudt give you 200 on poer off rotation klicks
[16:45:14] <IchGuckLive> manuell turn can infect the driver
[16:45:23] <IchGuckLive> and shot the Hbrige
[16:45:45] <revo14> yes im online ichgucklive
[16:45:55] <IchGuckLive> hi and welcome im in germany
[16:46:13] <revo14> hi thank you
[16:46:24] <IchGuckLive> i use about 200 of the 542
[16:46:43] <revo14> 200?
[16:46:49] <IchGuckLive> they are good for pricice mashining belo 2500mm/min
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[16:47:16] <IchGuckLive> revo14: i got lots of education mashines
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[16:48:04] <somenewguy> IchGuckLive: thanks, I guessi assumed a driver woudl be built to sustain "lost" steps
[16:48:09] <somenewguy> I'll be more carefull in the future
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[16:53:58] <CaptHindsight> anyone ever work with the closed loop steppers by leadshine and similar? Do they use variable microstepping to adjust for errors in stepping or what do they actually do?
[16:54:35] <IchGuckLive> they only get you the info if a step is lost
[16:54:58] <CaptHindsight> http://www.leadshine.com/productdetail.aspx?type=products&category=easy-servo-products&productype=easy-servo-drives&series=ES-D&model=ES-D508
[16:55:28] <CaptHindsight> are they just pulling this out of their.... "No loss of steps; no hunting; no overshooting" ?
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[16:55:57] <somenewguy> I have no experience, but I assumed they operate more like a BLDC than a stepper?
[16:56:40] <somenewguy> so they are a MUCH more reponsive servo in control logic, but I could be off the mark, i only did some cursory research a while back for a fizzled project
[16:57:22] <CaptHindsight> I'm trying to see what they actually offer vs the marketing fluff
[16:58:19] <IchGuckLive> i did not loose any step after a hard 8hr shift on the plasma at 4800mm/min contouring and 5200mm G0 with the 880A leadshine and a mesa 7i76
[16:58:50] <IchGuckLive> moving at 0.01mm per step
[16:59:04] <IchGuckLive> no on 4 build ident mashines gantry style
[16:59:21] <IchGuckLive> using rack and pinion T10
[16:59:52] <humble_sea_bass> No loss of steps; no hunting; no overshooting = "we use PID"
[17:00:02] <IchGuckLive> ok there is almost zero workforce !!
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[17:00:46] <IchGuckLive> humble_sea_bass: PID is near 600Euro per Axis as Step is near 200
[17:01:25] <humble_sea_bass> for the servodrive you mean?
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[17:02:39] <CaptHindsight> does the PID just supervise until there is a difference between commanded position and actual position?
[17:02:40] <IchGuckLive> yes costs are near tribble at same force
[17:03:15] <humble_sea_bass> PID constantly runs on the closed loop
[17:04:28] <humble_sea_bass> so it smoothly applies acceleration/deceleration and direction in order to get it to converge without oscillating (hunting) or over shooting (fucking up royally)
[17:04:30] <CaptHindsight> ok if that is the approach how does it handle distances less than 1 step?
[17:05:31] <CaptHindsight> is that actually what their closed stepper does or are you just describing a servo in general?
[17:05:57] <humble_sea_bass> I wish I were smarter about machine tool control to answer that, but my feeling is that sub step motion is something that the path projector should deal with
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[17:06:06] <humble_sea_bass> i.e. smooth out
[17:06:10] <CaptHindsight> that's how all PID's work :)
[17:06:39] <CaptHindsight> yeah, I'm really wondering what those leadshine drives really do
[17:06:50] <humble_sea_bass> well the language they use is just big talking for "we use PID" I felt
[17:07:32] <humble_sea_bass> and PID is all software algorith, so once you tune it, you can get good results
[17:08:01] <CaptHindsight> yeah, I mostly use servos
[17:08:36] <CaptHindsight> thats why I was wondering what they are up to with the closed loop stepping http://www.automationtechnologiesinc.com/products-page/hybrid-servo-system/hybrid-servo-drive-kl-5080h
[17:08:47] <CaptHindsight> well for $212 I can find out :)
[17:09:10] <humble_sea_bass> had I known that maddening noice of steppers I would have sank a few more dollars to go servo
[17:09:36] <CaptHindsight> wwweeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee wwwwwwwweeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee it's like birdsong :)
[17:09:59] <humble_sea_bass> heh that leadshine is the same motor i have with a big ol encoder
[17:10:12] <humble_sea_bass> wait no it isn
[17:12:59] <humble_sea_bass> http://reference.wolfram.com/mathematica/example/PIDControllerArchitectures.html
[17:14:02] <humble_sea_bass> the last image at tne bottom is one of the most amazing things to watch on an oscilloscope and some servos in college
[17:14:08] <humble_sea_bass> makes you feel like a wizard
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[17:41:49] <kfoltman> so, if I have a motor driving a pulley and the belt has 180 degree contact with the pulley, do I get 50% of the torque, or?
[17:44:41] <Einar1> Depends on the belt etc. but you should have 100% of the torque if you did things right.
[17:45:48] <Einar1> When 180 degrees contact, that means both pulleys are the same diameter, so no torque transformation.
[17:46:03] <IchGuckLive> full power no slip on >160deg
[17:47:25] <IchGuckLive> Einar1: dont forget the 20/5 gearing at Ballscrew
[17:47:40] <IchGuckLive> so you got 500Steps per 5mm pitch
[17:47:52] <IchGuckLive> 20/25
[17:47:57] <IchGuckLive> ;-)
[17:48:29] <Einar1> Uhh! What ballscrew gearing?
[17:48:30] <IchGuckLive> timingbelt pulley 20/25 for eqal direction
[17:48:34] <IchGuckLive> gears for reverse
[17:49:07] <Einar1> Did I miss some scrollback here?
[17:49:14] <IchGuckLive> Half stepping gives you 400 steps direct 2005 not a good precission step
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[17:50:17] <IchGuckLive> so 400 at 20 tzeeth Motor Stepepr -> to 25teeth ballscrew is a very good system
[17:50:28] <tjtr33> gates timing belt manual, look near end at number of teeth engaged http://tinyurl.com/kybxavp
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[17:51:18] <tjtr33> is it toothed belt?
[17:51:37] <tjtr33> kfoltman, ^^^
[17:53:45] <IchGuckLive> Einar1: http://foengarage.de/gears2.html
[17:54:02] <IchGuckLive> <- hopes the gears are running in HTML
[17:54:08] <Noxz> What alternatives are there to 80/20 ?
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[17:56:41] <CaptHindsight> Bosch, Futura and several others
[17:56:51] <CaptHindsight> Noxz: where are you located?
[17:57:01] <Noxz> California
[17:57:03] <_methods> misumi seems pretty reasonable too
[17:57:11] <Noxz> SF Bay area (San Jose)
[17:57:15] <tjtr33> other people make clone 80-20, else look at uni-strut ( steel )
[17:59:27] <tjtr33> http://www.frame-world.com/ 8020 clone lake-in-the-hills Illinois ( next door to me :)
[17:59:39] <kfoltman> tjtr33: toothed belt, GT2 to be precise
[18:00:30] <tjtr33> then thats the gate tech manual for ya ^^^
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[18:01:10] <kfoltman> tjtr33: ok, I'll read it now
[18:01:21] <tjtr33> pretty over the top geek-belt but it looked like 180 degree was fine if not overkill
[18:01:22] <CaptHindsight> http://www.faztek.net/index.htm
[18:01:44] <CaptHindsight> http://www.futuraind.com/
[18:02:29] <tjtr33> i think JT said frame-world was the good bang4thebuck place he found after lookin around
[18:02:32] <CaptHindsight> http://www.minitecframing.com/
[18:03:11] <CaptHindsight> tjtr33: Steiner stocks 90/20 they are right down the road from Frame-world
[18:03:31] <tjtr33> cool, i only know EGV Steiner
[18:03:35] <CaptHindsight> if I want frame world I have to order from a disti 30 miles away
[18:03:40] <tjtr33> by Ohare
[18:04:10] <tjtr33> ah, you said that before, sorry, maybe no prob for our CA friend
[18:04:17] <CaptHindsight> Crystal lake and St Charles
[18:05:16] <CaptHindsight> also Waukegan, the Loves Park locations stocks loads of it
[18:05:44] <tjtr33> i went to work today, but built an electric mower yesterday, dead mower charger & battery PLUS ebike battery = free mower :)
[18:05:47] amnesic_away is now known as amnesic
[18:05:53] <tjtr33> and swap it out to ride the bike later
[18:06:26] <CaptHindsight> modular lawn care and recreational items
[18:06:58] <tjtr33> you can find deals on ebay for 80-20 as people overbuy and sell off stock
[18:07:51] <tjtr33> yeah weedwhacker , screwdriver and sawzall next ( 24V LiFePo4 pack in a bag :)
[18:08:20] <CaptHindsight> I wish metalsupermarkets.com carried t-slot
[18:11:02] <CaptHindsight> tjtr33: in a pinch they carry lots of steel and aluminum shapes and plate http://www.adamssteelservice.com/
[18:11:14] <IchGuckLive> CaptHindsight: minitec is here in town right beside the airbase
[18:11:30] <CaptHindsight> IchGuckLive: I like their stuff
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[18:11:45] <IchGuckLive> its expensive but its the best on market
[18:12:05] <IchGuckLive> and its a full system ready to use
[18:12:26] <IchGuckLive> full automated cutting of your design
[18:12:27] <CaptHindsight> I usually buy lengths and finish machine here
[18:12:42] <IchGuckLive> Xcnc !
[18:13:00] <IchGuckLive> http://xrcnc.com/
[18:13:04] <IchGuckLive> im off BYE
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[18:13:37] <Noxz> so, beyond just listing alternatives, any suggestions of what to use? I plan on having 4'x4'x2' with yaw and pitch (5 axis) on the tool head, so stuff has to hold some weight
[18:14:48] <CaptHindsight> what are you loads, accel deccel, moments, inertias?
[18:15:08] <Noxz> original plan is to mill, I can do it slow if necesary
[18:15:25] <Noxz> mill metal (aluminum to start)
[18:15:31] <CaptHindsight> you/your
[18:17:15] <Noxz> the other numbers I am unsure about
[18:17:32] <Noxz> some of that depends on the frame I use, right?
[18:18:55] <CaptHindsight> sure and your desired accuracy, repeatability, speeds
[18:19:24] <CaptHindsight> t-slot isn't very straight to begin with
[18:19:30] <Noxz> accuracy as best as I can get, with repeatability
[18:20:01] <CaptHindsight> http://www.pbclinear.com/Videos/All/Factors-That-Affect-Repeatability
[18:20:04] <Noxz> I am using 2505 ballscrews with 1.8deg steps (with microsteps from the controller) and some THX linear bearings
[18:20:14] <CaptHindsight> http://www.pbclinear.com/Videos/All/Bearing-Selection-Criteria
[18:23:35] <XXCoder> lol cheater :P https://scontent-a-sea.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-frc3/t1.0-9/1536463_589890507747324_906610767_n.jpg
[18:23:44] <CaptHindsight> since you're not a mechanical engineer I'd say to look at other designs and their specs to give you an idea of the size they used for the machine frames
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[18:26:42] <CaptHindsight> Noxz: but when comparing cheap systems from Asia keep in mind that the specs may be embellished
[18:28:18] <CaptHindsight> http://machinedesign.com/motion-control/cantilever-vs-h-frame-gantries
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[18:31:23] <CaptHindsight> Noxz: you might want to watch this whole series http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL3D4EECEFAA99D9BE
[18:32:52] <Noxz> also keep in mind that I have already purchased near everything save the framming and tool
[18:33:47] <CaptHindsight> ok, then you should be able to best see how to work with what you have
[18:34:40] <CaptHindsight> you'll have to decide what your tradoffs are for things like weight vs speed based on your motors and screws chosen
[18:34:56] <CaptHindsight> weight vs rigidity
[18:35:15] <Noxz> motors == steppers?
[18:35:41] <CaptHindsight> steppers are motors
[18:35:52] <CaptHindsight> one type
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[18:38:48] <tjtr33> Noxz look at Rab's setup with nutating head ( 80-20-ish ) http://www.cnc-toolkit.com/gantry_router.html
[18:38:59] <SpeedEvil> Not all steppers are motors.
[18:39:13] <SpeedEvil> Variable reluctance ones arne't.
[18:39:51] <Noxz> my steppers also have rotary encoders on them, but the controller deosnt sdupport it (open hardware/software controller, with breakout pins, so it shouldn't take much to get a board made that the controller can talk to for positonal data
[18:39:59] <revo14> could you explain me how to install heekscad, heekscnc and qcad
[18:40:12] <tjtr33> hehe wacky binary linear stepper http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sq9fRpJ1U4g
[18:43:51] <tjtr33> Noxz: Rabs' is nice but forget it for aluminum. bu IMO you need cast iron machine frame to cut metal
[18:44:22] <tjtr33> esp for nutating head
[18:44:33] <CaptHindsight> http://www.wisc-online.com/objects/ViewObject.aspx?ID=IAU14208
[18:45:21] * SpeedEvil is seriously considering a wooden mill.
[18:45:25] <tjtr33> hehe "Wisc-Online learn gooder"
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[18:45:56] <CaptHindsight> well University of Phoenix didn't have a video :)
[18:45:59] <SpeedEvil> At least - to keep a x-y stage in position with relation to the mill head
[18:46:23] <SpeedEvil> But - I'm sort of considering the column being 12" across or more.
[18:46:38] <SpeedEvil> And not very tall
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[18:46:48] <tjtr33> look at really old woodcut prints of machines made of wood to cut metal
[18:47:18] <CaptHindsight> wood composite would work well (say that 3 times fast)
[18:47:55] <CaptHindsight> wood epoxy granite composite
[18:48:51] <SpeedEvil> Well - not really.
[18:49:09] <SpeedEvil> But if you have a cast iron bar, if you have a wooden bar three times the thickness, it's as stiff
[18:49:21] <SpeedEvil> (ish)
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[18:49:36] <tjtr33> did you see Bas's reprap laying copper wire down before extruder nozzle? printing pcbs ( extreme early stages ) http://basdebruijn.com/2014/05/additive-wire-laying/
[18:49:55] <tjtr33> the leading gear arrangement is very cool
[18:49:58] <SpeedEvil> And yes - drift is a real issue.
[18:50:17] <SpeedEvil> Concrete is another fun material
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[18:51:12] <tjtr33> really tiny machines could be bolted to the work to gain stiffness ;)
[18:51:24] <CaptHindsight> tjtr33: too slow for production but it works
[18:51:56] <tjtr33> cleever idea anway
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[18:52:19] <CaptHindsight> tjtr33: we use fluids to make multilayer pcb's using SLA
[18:52:30] <SpeedEvil> I am planning a dead-bug solderer using enammeled copper wire.
[18:52:36] <SpeedEvil> And LASERs
[18:52:40] <SpeedEvil> Well, one laser.
[18:52:54] <_methods> no sharks?
[18:53:35] <SpeedEvil> I can't work out how to mount them.
[18:53:44] <_methods> heheh
[18:53:48] <_methods> staple gun man
[18:54:03] <_methods> the sharks don't mind
[18:54:12] <_methods> they're too excited about having lasers
[18:54:47] <CaptHindsight> FDM can't deposit the core materials fast enough, inkjet or SLA-LCD can
[18:55:06] <tjtr33> http://ambrosesdiary.blogspot.com/2012/08/get-free-1-day-shark-mount.html
[18:55:09] <SpeedEvil> http://hackaday.com/2013/12/26/jello-shot-printer/ - remings me of.
[18:55:16] <SpeedEvil> reminds
[18:55:49] <SpeedEvil> It's a crappy 3d printer, but it's edible output, and it was put together in a couple of days from junk
[18:56:25] <_methods> +20% speed weeeeeee
[18:58:49] <CaptHindsight> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s99aSFkV2aY if you watch how extrusions are made you'll see why they aren't very straight
[19:00:07] <CaptHindsight> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iiGlq7408ME
[19:02:30] <CaptHindsight> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LnDUYZHDQAg
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[19:06:16] <CaptHindsight> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8vtaj0zTWr4 a small low cost mill would be good enough to make the aluminum molds for this process
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[19:07:17] <CaptHindsight> you can make parts as strong as aluminum in them using the right composite resins
[19:09:12] <CaptHindsight> a small cnc mill to machine the molds and the injection mold machine is just a gear pump, heater + z-axis
[19:11:48] <XXCoder> interesting
[19:12:03] <XXCoder> "aging oven"
[19:14:05] <zeeshan> finally got a bigger vise
[19:14:06] <zeeshan> http://i.imgur.com/UvOiyRY.jpg
[19:14:11] <zeeshan> $30
[19:14:12] <zeeshan> :D
[19:14:30] <zeeshan> its about 80lb
[19:14:33] <zeeshan> beefy
[19:15:18] <zeeshan> i wonder if i should take it apart and blast it
[19:15:44] <XXCoder> alum rods of all sizes
[19:15:44] <CaptHindsight> that's big enough for jumbo walnuts
[19:15:49] <XXCoder> how phillic lol
[19:18:03] <SpeedEvil> I've got a bigger vise - but it has more wood.
[19:18:13] <zeeshan> i mainly wanted a bigger vise
[19:18:26] <zeeshan> cause im holding a lot of big manifolds for cars lately
[19:18:40] <zeeshan> and re-threading out holes
[19:18:55] <zeeshan> i was getting tired of c-clamping them to the welding table :P
[19:21:20] <tjtr33> CaptHindsight, that linear slide from Rockford... their claim to fame is machining the extrusions ( all sides at once or sumpthin )
[19:21:21] <tjtr33> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A8_bGA5ZEug
[19:21:44] <XXCoder> what does "aging" do to exrusions?
[19:21:50] <zeeshan> make em stronger
[19:21:54] <zeeshan> the yield strength
[19:22:10] <tjtr33> the stress goes away, relaxes it
[19:22:19] <XXCoder> cool. what does it do in term of physially? warm? chill? acid bath?
[19:22:22] <CaptHindsight> tjtr33: yes, machine all surfaces at one time
[19:22:25] <zeeshan> XXCoder: the proper term is 'percipitation hardening'
[19:22:38] <zeeshan> it changes the grain structure
[19:22:46] <zeeshan> you're letting the grains become finer
[19:22:47] <CaptHindsight> SIMO for simultaneous machining
[19:22:56] <zeeshan> finer grains impede dislocation movement
[19:22:58] <XXCoder> interesting.
[19:23:24] <tjtr33> CaptHindsight, yah i been lookin for an exampke of high vel & acc from simo, may have to go there
[19:24:00] <CaptHindsight> http://www.pbclinear.com/SIMO-Series-Components---GST?tab=Videos
[19:24:25] <CaptHindsight> tjtr33: the rep is in McHenry, he can probably stop by your location in SG
[19:24:56] <XXCoder> CaptHindsight: thanks for great vids.
[19:25:13] <XXCoder> only couldnt watch last one full screen, had to set to tiny size and sit back
[19:25:17] <zeeshan> XXCoder: wanna knwo something interesting? :P
[19:25:31] <XXCoder> sure
[19:25:35] <zeeshan> as time passes by, at room temperature of 20C
[19:25:46] <CaptHindsight> XXCoder: we should probably post them all somewhere since people ask the same questions all the time and the videos give them the skills to solve them
[19:25:54] <zeeshan> (if its age hardenend, aluminum is at its peak strength)
[19:25:59] <tjtr33> no thanks i hate salesmen, spent my life making machines do what a salesman said it would.
[19:26:01] <zeeshan> but after 20 years or so
[19:26:10] <CaptHindsight> heh
[19:26:11] <XXCoder> what about linuxcnc channel FAQ wiki? lol
[19:26:11] <zeeshan> it loses almost 35% of its yield strength
[19:26:14] <tjtr33> despite what mfctr said
[19:26:57] <tjtr33> " veditori??? spah! pirata! "
[19:27:00] <XXCoder> zee well everything ages. some well some not so well. I remember this machine at boeing. it was over 100 years old. very big machine. tour guy said it always worked
[19:27:08] <zeeshan> not steel
[19:27:13] <zeeshan> alumninum will
[19:27:22] <CaptHindsight> embellished specifications!? I'm shocked totally shocked
[19:27:38] <XXCoder> and theres 7 year old machine thats set in its own room because its riciously sensive and will break down once a while. both has same tasks.
[19:27:45] <CaptHindsight> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nM_A4Skusro
[19:27:51] <XXCoder> stell ages too but I think those just harden
[19:28:06] <zeeshan> http://www.intechopen.com/source/html/44944/media/fig8.png
[19:28:11] <zeeshan> i cant find a proper graph online
[19:28:14] <zeeshan> theres on in the book
[19:28:30] <zeeshan> but it looks similar to that for 2024 aluminum
[19:28:46] <zeeshan> ugh
[19:28:47] <zeeshan> thats not it
[19:28:53] <zeeshan> thats a stress vs strain
[19:29:00] <zeeshan> its a yield strength vs time
[19:30:05] <zeeshan> i guess hardeness vs time would show the same strength
[19:30:18] <zeeshan> same trend not same strength
[19:30:19] <tjtr33> haha 'your winnings mssr' 'oh thank you very much'
[19:30:26] <zeeshan> http://www.nyk.co.jp/en/images/products/alloys/660_img02.gif
[19:31:01] <zeeshan> http://www.intechopen.com/source/html/37908/media/image2.JPG
[19:31:07] <zeeshan> heres another plot that shows cycles to fail vs aging
[19:31:12] <zeeshan> its pretty interesting :D
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[19:36:43] <tjtr33> machinability of aged cast iron http://www.e-smarrt.org/FinalReports/Task5_11_AgingIron.pdf Univ. MO, Rolla
[19:37:20] <archivist> I recommend looking up "stress corrosion cracking" too
[19:37:23] * SpeedEvil wishes he could get a nice slab of cheep cast iron.
[19:37:43] <archivist> buy a surface table
[19:37:48] <SpeedEvil> I just want a 60*60*.5cm or so slab to make a griddle
[19:38:09] <SpeedEvil> I don't actually require very good flatness :)
[19:38:32] * archivist demands grade A flat
[19:38:46] <SpeedEvil> How do you measure the flatness of pancakes?
[19:38:52] <SpeedEvil> Oh - blueberries. Of course.
[19:38:56] <zeeshan> tjtr33: looks like the effect of aging on cast iron
[19:39:03] <zeeshan> on its mechanical properties inst too significant
[19:39:22] <zeeshan> range of +/- 10MPa effect
[19:39:50] <zeeshan> +/- 1450 psi
[19:40:23] * SpeedEvil ponders casting iron.
[19:40:55] <MrHindsight> cast epoxy composites
[19:41:19] <MrHindsight> but then you need a flat surface to cast on
[19:41:44] <SpeedEvil> ass
[19:41:46] <SpeedEvil> glass
[19:41:53] <SpeedEvil> (pretty close anyway)
[19:41:59] <zeeshan> glass is accurate within a 6" diameter
[19:42:08] <MrHindsight> I see lots of iron surface plate on fleabay
[19:42:11] <zeeshan> in flatness of i think 0.0001"
[19:42:28] <Jymmm> Solar FREAKIN Roadways! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qlTA3rnpgzU
[19:43:35] <MrHindsight> SpeedEvil: if you were to cast iron you'd probably still want to age it and grind it smooth
[19:43:47] <SpeedEvil> yeah
[19:44:10] <SpeedEvil> I think my initial attempts will be wood.
[19:44:39] <MrHindsight> http://www.pancakebot.com/
[19:45:49] <SpeedEvil> https://www.youtube.com/user/bkraz333/search?query=cookie CNC cookies
[19:46:05] <MrHindsight> https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/solar-roadways
[19:47:55] <MrHindsight> damn I knew i was close with my solar basement floor tiles
[19:48:13] <Jymmm> basement..... lol
[19:50:06] <MrHindsight> I need to make the t-slot cast in epoxy granite easy to build
[19:50:46] <MrHindsight> maybe machine the top surface flat and then cast over glass
[19:50:59] <SpeedEvil> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/model-engineer-small-cast-iron-milling-block-box-angle-plate-/171332023833?pt=UK_BOI_Metalworking_Milling_Welding_Metalworking_Supplies_ET&hash=item27e42f3619
[19:51:39] <Jymmm> Since they interact, imaine in heavy fog the road can can tell you when the traffic stops ahead
[19:51:47] <Jymmm> imagine
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[19:52:54] <MrHindsight> Jymmm: can't they just use the tracking data from everyones phones to do that?
[19:53:40] <Jymmm> Not everyone has a phone, or leve it on, evasive too,
[19:54:03] <SpeedEvil> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/cast-iron-surface-plate-/201091125302?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item2ed1f71036 holy crap
[19:54:28] <XXCoder> interesting
[19:54:58] <XXCoder> shipping it to usa probably cost enough for me to have heart attack :P
[19:55:12] <MrHindsight> how many pancakes will fit on that?
[19:55:37] <SpeedEvil> 'enough'
[19:55:46] <Jymmm> one
[19:55:49] <SpeedEvil> :)
[19:55:53] <XXCoder> pancake? enough? never.
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[19:56:07] <malcom2073> Jymmm: Good answer!
[19:56:16] <Jymmm> forget pancakes... BACON!!!!
[19:56:37] <MrHindsight> think really big tortillas for burritos as big as you are
[19:57:05] <Jymmm> human centip...err burrito
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[19:58:14] <XXCoder> I recall this joke
[19:58:30] <XXCoder> two pigs come in reserant. both orders salad with stuff
[19:58:52] <XXCoder> one pig asks for bacon bits. other pig is shocked. that pig says "I'm sure it wasnt someone we knew!"
[19:59:14] <Jymmm> Solar FREAKIN roadways, man that would be awesome even partially covered roads
[19:59:39] <XXCoder> indeed
[19:59:58] <MrHindsight> didn't Germany prove that solar doesn't work? :)
[20:00:22] <Jymmm> deicing, road hazard sensing with early warning sensing as well
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[20:01:18] <MrHindsight> those panels don't look flexible
[20:01:23] <Jymmm> the road could blink red far enough iahead based upon speed of traffic
[20:01:23] <malcom2073> My only question is, where are they going to get the money for that? Most states already can't afford to maintain their roads, and asphalt is cheap :/
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[20:01:46] <uw> mesa users, whats better 5i25 or 6i25
[20:01:52] <malcom2073> Novel idea sure, but the barrier to solar energy isn't space
[20:02:00] <Jymmm> malcom2073: They generate electricity, they could sell back to the power company for a source of revenue
[20:02:05] <MrHindsight> durability and maintenance
[20:02:26] <tjtr33> haha after aluminum extrusions are 'aged' they are 'stickered' like wood. wonder if they have to be re-stacked like wood to keep 'em straight
[20:02:26] <MrHindsight> those won't hold up long
[20:02:27] <Jymmm> malcom2073: monies saved on snow plows
[20:02:53] <SpeedEvil> Jymmm: There is fuck all sun when it's snowy
[20:02:53] <Jymmm> MrHindsight: Not sure, the FHA gave them a grant, there must be something there
[20:03:04] <malcom2073> Jymmm: Still requires a huge initial investment. Yay more debt? like I said, the barriers to solar energy aren't available space, otherwise makign the roads solar panels would kinda make sense.
[20:03:06] <SpeedEvil> typically
[20:03:16] <MrHindsight> or knew somebody
[20:03:20] <XXCoder> if it generates enough power it can pay for its own expsion
[20:03:21] <uw> states cant afford roads anymore because of high labor costs, contractor scams and poor management
[20:03:36] <Jymmm> SpeedEvil: Sonce grid-tied, could still heat the roads on black days
[20:03:56] <SpeedEvil> Well - yes - but murderously large amounts of power
[20:04:03] <XXCoder> uw: also because of car mpg increases ironically
[20:04:14] <MrHindsight> when the average person can't afford a car in the USA it won't matter
[20:04:21] <XXCoder> cars are so effecient that gas taxes is dropping pretty hard
[20:04:29] <uw> XXCoder, hmm i'm listening...
[20:04:30] <malcom2073> uw: I'm sure that contributes
[20:04:41] <XXCoder> so goverment is trying to figure other income. maybe even per mile
[20:04:48] <MrHindsight> why invest in solar for a bunch of peasants?
[20:05:00] <Jymmm> SpeedEvil: I guess it would depend on how they are tied together, they could "borrow" power from other solar reoadways
[20:05:02] <uw> here in nj they're having meeting for more tolls on roads
[20:05:05] <uw> which is bullshit
[20:05:11] <uw> and just gonna make traffic worse
[20:05:43] <SpeedEvil> Jymmm: yeah - the problem is that snow happens in cloudy winter weather.
[20:05:49] <Jymmm> If they also prevent accidents, could lower insurance rates
[20:05:50] <MrHindsight> why would the oligarchs care about solar?
[20:05:57] <SpeedEvil> Where there is often limited light for large regions.
[20:06:32] <XXCoder> I hope solar get to point where even cloudy day gives enough power for one house in least
[20:06:39] <Jymmm> SpeedEvil: Right, but it's not snowy everywhere, say arizona, thus borrow power. or sell inthe summer, get back in the winter
[20:06:43] <XXCoder> well gonna go mow layer
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[20:07:03] <SpeedEvil> Jymmm: transferring power thousands of kilometers is expensive of itself
[20:07:23] <malcom2073> And incredibly inefficient
[20:07:42] <Jymmm> SpeedEvil: sell summer, get back in winter. pluse the man crews no longer needed to clear the roads
[20:08:07] <MrHindsight> how does this benefit multinational corps and oil co's?
[20:08:48] <MrHindsight> don't we have to transfer control of the government back to the people for this to make sense?
[20:09:01] <malcom2073> wtf does that have to do with anything?
[20:09:24] <Jymmm> MrHindsight: that's called civil war =)
[20:09:36] <malcom2073> Ooooh wait, *puts on tinfoil hat* gotcha *wink wink*
[20:09:58] <MrHindsight> there is little current interest into improving the infrastructure here
[20:10:05] <Jymmm> malcom2073: did you take your implanted chip ot already?
[20:10:16] <malcom2073> Heh
[20:10:20] <Jymmm> =)
[20:11:06] <Jymmm> I really wish we weren't based on a finacial economy *sigh*
[20:12:00] <MrHindsight> the supreme court made corporations people and money speech
[20:12:23] * Jymmm thinking Star Trek type society, where your based upon improvements rather than gain
[20:12:26] <Jymmm> they did?
[20:13:34] <Jymmm> Ok, so what you think one of those solar road cells cost in bulk?
[20:13:46] <Jymmm> $2K ?
[20:14:04] <SpeedEvil> Solar cells are at $.80 or so a watt.
[20:14:12] <SpeedEvil> For normal ones
[20:14:19] <Jymmm> no no, I mean thouse hex cells
[20:14:45] <Jymmm> with the solar leds heat
[20:15:00] <SpeedEvil> I have real problems imagining they're going to be anywhere near as cheap as normal ones.
[20:16:08] <Jymmm> one of these http://i61.tinypic.com/2qi2uc9.jpg
[20:16:18] <SpeedEvil> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Perlight-250W-Black-Monocrystalline-Solar-Panel-/151294722852?pt=UK_Gadgets&hash=item2339de4324
[20:16:28] <Jymmm> not solar panels
[20:16:51] <MrHindsight> the indegogo 7" panel is $7k
[20:17:00] <SpeedEvil> If you want to do that - it's going to be vastly cheaper to stick solar panels on 'light poles' - and then laser project lights onto the ground
[20:17:02] <MrHindsight> sorry $10k
[20:17:11] <Jymmm> MrHindsight: 7" across?
[20:18:49] <MrHindsight> https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/solar-roadways on the right side
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[20:19:43] <MrHindsight> http://solarroadways.com/numbers.shtml
[20:20:07] <MrHindsight> see if you can find the actual cost of the panels, it's suspiciously missing
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[20:21:33] <SpeedEvil> It's ideal for a parking lot for a buisness.
[20:21:45] <SpeedEvil> For roads - not really
[20:21:51] <Jymmm> Love the disclaimer at the bottom... http://www.equities.com/editors-desk/stocks/technology/why-the-solar-roadways-project-on-indiegogo-is-actually-really-silly
[20:22:38] <Jymmm> Roads in problem areas it be great
[20:23:16] <SpeedEvil> As a ballpark, in mass quantities, the components are of the order of 60 dollars.
[20:23:32] <Jymmm> If a car was broken down in the left lane, the LEDs could merge traffic by reshaping the lanes as needed
[20:23:55] <Jymmm> $60 a hex?
[20:24:09] <Jymmm> I think they are 2ft apx
[20:24:21] <CaptHindsight> This is a Way to Fund This Couple's Hobby
[20:24:24] <SpeedEvil> yes.
[20:24:49] <Jymmm> so $2400 for one lane
[20:25:00] <CaptHindsight> " I’m guessing, is why the question of cost doesn’t come up at any point in either the IndieGoGo video OR the couple’s website. It’s why their idea doesn’t actually make any sense."
[20:25:01] <Jymmm> 10ft lane x 2ft
[20:25:07] <tjtr33> Jymmm, thx for 'solar frkn roadways'
[20:25:28] <Jymmm> so $1200 a foot per lane
[20:25:47] <CaptHindsight> why not just solar hats? power anything close to your head
[20:26:20] <Jymmm> How much is a foot of lane cost now?
[20:26:47] <CaptHindsight> http://sroeco.com/solar/images/PVeff-rev100414.png
[20:28:02] <Jymmm> http://wiki.answers.com/Q/How_much_does_it_cost_to_build_a_paved_road
[20:28:26] <Jymmm> $64 to repave
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[20:29:03] <tjtr33> so in illinois thats 64/ft/year ;)
[20:29:22] <Jymmm> that's not even a new road, that's just to repave
[20:29:28] <CaptHindsight> heh
[20:30:22] <Jymmm> and they would be revenue generating as well
[20:32:05] <Jymmm> So lets say a 2ft hex solar road is the equiv of a 50W solar panel
[20:32:47] <Jymmm> so that would be 250W per foot of one lane of road
[20:33:52] <CaptHindsight> Sunpower offers a 230 Watt solar panel rated at 18.5% efficiency. Its surface area is 13.4 square feet.
[20:34:17] <CaptHindsight> http://solarroadways.com/numbers.shtml use their numbers with any panel you wish
[20:34:34] <Jymmm> 250W * 5280ft (1 mile) = 1.3MW * 15% efficieny = 198KW per mile, per lane
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[20:35:52] <FrankZappa> ohgod, the solar road people
[20:35:59] <FrankZappa> so dumb
[20:36:01] <CaptHindsight> you might get a few years out of those panels under ideal conditions
[20:36:50] <FrankZappa> nobody should be taking that project seriously.
[20:37:01] <FrankZappa> The fact that the US Govt has given this guy any money is sad.
[20:37:24] <FrankZappa> It's like they don't have anyone with an engineering background connected to any sort of innovative engineering payouts.
[20:37:56] <SpeedEvil> It depends.
[20:38:02] <FrankZappa> You're not going to get the same irradiance
[20:38:05] <SpeedEvil> As a whole road surface, it's clearly insane.
[20:38:20] <SpeedEvil> As a controllable driver signalling one - it may not be.
[20:38:22] <FrankZappa> as any kind of duty surface, it's clearly insane.
[20:38:28] <zeeshan> i personally think you can fix the problem w/ it with it easily
[20:38:35] <zeeshan> instead of putting it on rods
[20:38:40] <zeeshan> *roads, you put em on side walks
[20:38:48] <CaptHindsight> Germany has already shown what works and what doesn't work well
[20:38:49] <FrankZappa> also a terrible idea
[20:38:50] <zeeshan> so they won't see as much load
[20:38:56] <FrankZappa> put solar panels where they will get SUN
[20:38:57] <SpeedEvil> Put them on roofs.
[20:39:00] <Jymmm> FrankZappa: WHY is is a bad idea?
[20:39:02] <zeeshan> FrankZappa: you're a terrible idea
[20:39:03] <FrankZappa> It's not like we have a lack of PLACES for solar panels
[20:39:05] <zeeshan> in generally
[20:39:11] <FrankZappa> Why put them under roads?
[20:39:13] <zeeshan> FrankZappa: you tard
[20:39:16] <SpeedEvil> Roofs (can be) optimally sloped for solar panels.
[20:39:18] <FrankZappa> Literally the worst place to put them
[20:39:23] <zeeshan> the whole idea is to make revenue when you build infastructure
[20:39:27] <FrankZappa> tard?
[20:39:29] <SpeedEvil> And people may actually pay you to put them on a roof
[20:39:30] <zeeshan> not just put them in the middle of unused land
[20:39:31] <FrankZappa> what channel am I in?
[20:39:40] <zeeshan> yes, mr. terrible idea.
[20:39:40] <SpeedEvil> Done right.
[20:39:43] <CaptHindsight> on kites high above the clods
[20:39:57] <CaptHindsight> the string is also the power cord
[20:39:57] <Jymmm> I road generating revenue to pay for itself is not a bad idea.
[20:40:04] <zeeshan> Jymmm: i agree
[20:40:10] <zeeshan> and it's pretty ignorant to call it 'terrible'
[20:40:15] <FrankZappa> Jymmm ever heard of tolls?
[20:40:25] <pcw_home> which clods are you referring to?
[20:40:31] <SpeedEvil> The economics don't work.
[20:40:42] <SpeedEvil> It is vastly cheaper to do a dumb road, and a solar farm
[20:40:46] <Jymmm> FrankZappa: That's not generating revenue, that's charging a tax on top of the tax you already paid.
[20:40:52] <zeeshan> people shoot down ideas in this modern age like they're nothing
[20:40:55] <FrankZappa> Jymmm no, it's not.
[20:41:06] <zeeshan> thats why most projects with some possibility of working die before they even start
[20:41:07] <Einar1> Are those roads controlled by LinuxCNC?
[20:41:10] <zeeshan> welcome to FrankZappa
[20:41:16] <zeeshan> Einar1: they better be!!! :D
[20:41:18] <FrankZappa> I'm not going to argue about your lack of proper set categorization
[20:41:20] <CaptHindsight> all you have to do is run the numbers
[20:41:23] <Jymmm> If a road just sitting there is generating it's own money
[20:41:28] <FrankZappa> the fact remains that putting solar panels under roads is retarded
[20:41:39] <CaptHindsight> but the roadway solar project doesn't have the numbers
[20:42:15] <Jymmm> FrankZappa: You have nothing to back that up, all you've said is "it's stupid" just ike a 9yo kid would, back your shit up at least, give a valid argument
[20:42:30] <FrankZappa> It's hilarious, almost as if someone said, "Hey, solar power is starting to become more viable. How about we dampen that with a bunch of really expensive, inefficient locations for them?"
[20:42:31] <zeeshan> the roads also make sense for busy downtown cores.
[20:42:37] <zeeshan> where trucks arent allowed
[20:42:48] <FrankZappa> Jymmm How much do you know about solar power?
[20:42:53] <FrankZappa> I'm NABCEP certified
[20:43:06] <zeeshan> shit you got your certification for 100$
[20:43:07] <zeeshan> big deal
[20:43:19] <zeeshan> $125 now
[20:43:23] <zeeshan> its gone up
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[20:43:28] <FrankZappa> How much do you know about civil engineering?
[20:43:32] <FrankZappa> I've designed bridges.
[20:43:33] <Jymmm> FrankZappa: why gives a shit, saying "it;s stupid" without valid reasoning or argument is childish
[20:43:43] <zeeshan> FrankZappa: are you a civil engineer?
[20:43:49] <tjtr33> this channel gets way off topic sometimes, sometimes i am part of it, sometimes its a slanging match
[20:43:50] <FrankZappa> Do I feel like giving you a long lecture on how solar panels work?
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[20:43:59] <Jymmm> SpeedEvil's arguement about not ALL roads or not full coverage makes a valid argurment
[20:44:10] <FrankZappa> okay here's an argument
[20:44:17] <zeeshan> FrankZappa: are you a civil engineer?
[20:44:17] <FrankZappa> solar panels don't work very well in the shade
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[20:44:22] <FrankZappa> they don't work very well under snow
[20:44:28] <FrankZappa> they don't work very well covered in oil
[20:44:38] <FrankZappa> they don't work very well when they are salted/slagged
[20:44:52] <Jymmm> FrankZappa: those points ahave already been covered
[20:44:54] <FrankZappa> they don't work very well when they are gouged into by a 2-ton plow
[20:45:00] <zeeshan> FrankZappa: if you see their propsal
[20:45:04] <zeeshan> they address all those problems.
[20:45:07] <FrankZappa> And you're still advocating for it?
[20:45:10] <FrankZappa> okay.
[20:45:17] <zeeshan> get informed then get back
[20:45:22] <zeeshan> mr. wannabe civil engineer
[20:45:37] <Tom_itx> gimme a wind farm instead
[20:45:49] <zeeshan> Tom_itx: i really like the underwater turbines
[20:45:51] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: The maint on them is horrid
[20:46:02] <Jymmm> wind farms that is
[20:46:02] <Einar1> Might there be a way to funnel all the pissing contests on internet into a funnel and through a turbine to make power?
[20:46:05] <Tom_itx> so?
[20:46:08] <FrankZappa> solar requires very little maintenance.
[20:46:14] <FrankZappa> Practically zero
[20:46:16] <zeeshan> Einar1: you would solve the world's energy crises =D
[20:46:19] <Tom_itx> we've got quite a few of them around here and growing
[20:46:21] <FrankZappa> just spray the dirt off once a year.
[20:46:33] <FrankZappa> Of course, that's if you use solar panels.
[20:46:37] <FrankZappa> properly mounted
[20:46:39] <FrankZappa> facing the sun
[20:46:45] <Tom_itx> zeeshan do they work with the tides?
[20:46:49] <zeeshan> no
[20:46:52] <zeeshan> they use underwater currents
[20:47:07] <Jymmm> zeeshan: and work too =)
[20:47:14] <zeeshan> the tide energy generators are different
[20:47:25] <Jymmm> got all the way from SF to AU
[20:47:33] <Jymmm> and JP
[20:47:50] <zeeshan> the only problem i see with underwater turbines is
[20:48:00] <zeeshan> if a whale decides to get inquistive with one :
[20:48:10] <Tom_itx> what about the saline?
[20:48:36] <zeeshan> lots of materials technology takes care of saline conditions
[20:48:45] <zeeshan> i don't remember all the coatings and materials processing
[20:48:47] <zeeshan> but theres a lot involved
[20:48:51] <Jymmm> zeeshan: Never been a problem with marine life except when the US Navy was doing paractice testing and they moved it, and it came back on it's course =)
[20:49:08] <zeeshan> Jymmm: ah
[20:49:26] <Jymmm> zeeshan: They didn't called the 1-800 number on it =)
[20:49:30] <Jymmm> seriosuly
[20:49:34] <zeeshan> hahah
[20:50:01] <zeeshan> i want solar panels for my driveway :]
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[20:50:39] <zeeshan> cleaning snow sucks
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[20:50:48] <Jymmm> once a cargo ship found one, hoisted it out of the water, little did they know it was sat tracked and the cargo ship had a trasponder, so just merged the data together and got it back with one phone call =)
[20:51:06] <zeeshan> why do people move em?
[20:51:25] <Tom_itx> tap into a caldera and use it to generate steam
[20:51:42] <Jymmm> zeeshan: Well the navy was being nice, and it was in their way. The cargo ship was thinking it was sea junk and stole it more or less
[20:51:57] <zeeshan> Tom_itx: i don't know if they tap into a caldera
[20:52:10] <zeeshan> but in iceland, they use volcanoes to generate steam
[20:52:19] <zeeshan> i was very curious why we don't do that more often
[20:52:19] <Jymmm> zeeshan: It's not fixed, it actually can go anywhere in the world once told to
[20:52:26] <zeeshan> Jymmm: OHH
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[20:52:54] <zeeshan> does it move to find strongest currents or something?
[20:53:11] <zeeshan> and you re-wire it accordingly
[20:53:17] <zeeshan> i dunno much about em, i just know they exist :P
[20:53:49] <zeeshan> Tom_itx: 'Hellisheii Power Station'
[20:54:17] <CaptHindsight> I was just searching for the current prices of the higher efficiency solar panels >25%, can anyone find them?
[20:54:30] <Jymmm> zeeshan: plat the video http://liquidr.com/technology/waveglider/how-it-works.html
[20:55:01] <Jymmm> zeeshan: itty bitty rudder too =)
[20:55:18] <zeeshan> rofl
[20:55:22] <zeeshan> i'd love to cruise one one
[20:55:32] <zeeshan> randomly arive somewhere
[20:55:49] <Jymmm> zeeshan: http://liquidr.com/resdown/resources/case-studies/pacx.html
[20:55:57] <Jymmm> zeeshan: Ok 888 not 800 =)
[20:56:07] <CaptHindsight> http://www.civicsolar.com/product/canadian-solar-cs6p-250m-250watt-solar-panel?utm_source=google_shopping&utm_medium=google_shopping&utm_campaign=google_shopping&gclid=CKnpxPf6x74CFYlFMgod1QgA-g
[20:56:22] <CaptHindsight> efficiency = 15.54%
[20:56:31] <SpeedEvil> CaptHindsight: 25% are basically unavailable cheaply
[20:56:43] <CaptHindsight> 250W $288.18
[20:56:49] <SpeedEvil> $1/W is reasonable for 15% or so.
[20:56:57] <FrankZappa> plan on 16% for poly and 21% for mono
[20:57:02] <FrankZappa> and 21% is cadillac priced
[20:57:11] <FrankZappa> anywhere on the north american continent ^
[20:57:11] <SpeedEvil> $20/W or so for 25% I'd guess
[20:57:32] <Jymmm> I calc'ed at 15% earlier
[20:57:45] <FrankZappa> I'm getting about .70/W for 16%
[20:57:52] <SpeedEvil> FrankZappa: yeah
[20:58:12] <CaptHindsight> the US blocked panels from China so there goes just about any chance of getting them cheaply
[20:58:25] <zeeshan> damn i'd need 44 of those panels
[20:58:28] <zeeshan> to run my garage :D
[20:58:34] <CaptHindsight> the patents here will keep the prices high
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[20:58:43] <SpeedEvil> zeeshan: Really?
[20:58:52] <zeeshan> im looking at a worse case scenario
[20:58:59] <zeeshan> 11000W
[20:59:01] <SpeedEvil> Well - no you're not.
[20:59:03] <zeeshan> :P
[20:59:07] <SpeedEvil> Worst case is night
[20:59:21] <Jymmm> Lunar panels FTW!!!
[20:59:27] <zeeshan> haha
[20:59:28] <Jymmm> with light bugs =)
[20:59:37] <SpeedEvil> I did the numbers for the size of panel required to run my raspberry pi 24*7.
[20:59:48] <SpeedEvil> I came up with about 250W. And a 100Ah*12V battery
[20:59:50] <Jymmm> SpeedEvil: and super caps?
[20:59:59] <Deejay> gn8
[21:00:05] <SpeedEvil> It is really quite dim in nov/dec/jan
[21:00:07] <Jymmm> DN9 Deejay
[21:00:11] <SpeedEvil> And days are short
[21:00:22] <Jymmm> SpeedEvil: did yu see the super cap batteries?
[21:00:32] <pcw_home> move towards the equator
[21:00:33] <SpeedEvil> Jymmm: irrelevant
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[21:00:46] <Jymmm> SpeedEvil: Not realy, never need to replace the battery
[21:01:13] <Jymmm> and with solar, that's always been the issue... storage
[21:01:18] <SpeedEvil> Jymmm: There have been about eleven thousand announcements of major advances in battery technology in the last couple of decades.
[21:01:32] <SpeedEvil> Very, very few of these have actually reached the market.
[21:01:40] <Jymmm> SpeedEvil: And none of them up to par with solar yet, close though
[21:02:23] <Jymmm> battery replacement is the bug cost/issue. In S.America batteries are outragious
[21:02:30] <Jymmm> s/bug/big/
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[21:02:55] <Jymmm> solar panels, not so much (grid-tie inveters directly)
[21:03:00] <SpeedEvil> There are no batteries that are close to the cost of grid at the moment.
[21:03:14] <Jymmm> SpeedEvil: rephrase that
[21:03:21] <SpeedEvil> That is - cycles * capaity / grid power price = <<< the cost of the battery
[21:03:31] <SpeedEvil> Even if charging power is free.
[21:03:35] <Jymmm> sorry, wrong grid-tie... hang on...
[21:03:48] <SpeedEvil> Unless your grid is enormously expensive
[21:04:25] <Jymmm> SpeedEvil: Not mains grid-tie, but panel to 220VAC outlet in your home grid-tie... http://www.amazon.com/Grid-tie-Inverter-On-Grid-system-suitable/dp/B008E4GLL6
[21:04:38] <Jymmm> SpeedEvil: (their wording, not mine =)
[21:05:20] <Jymmm> would be great for running air condictioner
[21:05:29] <Jymmm> washing machine, dryer, etc
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[21:05:48] <SpeedEvil> That will backfeed power to the grid - which may be illegal in some places
[21:06:06] <SpeedEvil> And on some meters will actually read as used, not generated power
[21:06:17] <Jymmm> SpeedEvil: Well, that's another story (transfer switch thingy) and usually a permit too
[21:06:28] <SpeedEvil> I'm skipping that.
[21:06:45] <Jymmm> I'mnot talking "selling back" to the power company,
[21:06:49] <SpeedEvil> I'm moving most of y static load onto a 20-30V bus, backed with 100Ah of battery
[21:06:58] <SpeedEvil> And solar on that.
[21:07:16] <zeeshan> haha the backfeeding from a diesel generator can get you in trouble
[21:07:28] <zeeshan> poor electrician turn off power to work on something
[21:07:33] <zeeshan> an d your generator kicks and shocks em :p
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[21:08:09] <zeeshan> SpeedEvil: 100Ah battery an AGM type?
[21:08:14] <zeeshan> like car battery
[21:08:22] <SpeedEvil> Deep cycle.
[21:08:35] <zeeshan> how long have you run this system?
[21:08:40] <SpeedEvil> Not yet installed.
[21:08:55] <SpeedEvil> The batteries are not going to be discharged much in normal use, just buffer the sun
[21:10:09] <Jymmm> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z3x_kYq3mHM
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[21:20:10] <Jymmm> That's just so cool =)
[21:21:26] <Jymmm> Not a bunch of snake-oil, not a bunch of uber geeky sceintific mumbo jumbo, just plain simple stright forward KISS test =)
[21:22:46] <Jymmm> put a couple of diodes on it, and keep it fully charged. Use a trasnfer switch to flip to it when if your battery dies
[21:23:26] <Jymmm> Maybe even a tiny solar panel for a ATV or riding mower battery replacement
[21:24:56] <Jymmm> 20F https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GUXM1XuLUIs
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[21:26:54] <Tom_R2E3_win> hi
[21:27:03] <Tom_R2E3_win> is anyone using gmoccapy?
[21:27:10] <Tom_R2E3_win> on a real machine
[21:30:27] <Tom_R2E3_win> ?
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[22:01:26] <malcom2073> Supercapacitors are fairly awesome
[22:02:33] <malcom2073> I would not have thought that 330F would be enough to start a car, but that goes to show how much I actually know about energy :)
[22:10:32] <Jymmm> malcom2073: the blue or black ones?
[22:10:47] <malcom2073> The blue
[22:11:07] <Jymmm> malcom2073: the black ones are pretty cool too
[22:11:30] <Jymmm> malcom2073: But that you can INSTANTLY charge up teh blue ones from a solar panel is cool
[22:11:31] <malcom2073> They were, I liked the form factor, he said like 2.6kF or something?
[22:12:00] <Jymmm> he has a video of making them from a year before
[22:12:35] <Jymmm> malcom2073: here ya go https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GPJao1xLe7w
[22:13:21] <malcom2073> Jymmm: thanks
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[22:18:35] <malcom2073> Jymmm: I wanna know where he'sgetting those for $6 apeace heh
[22:19:18] <Jymmm> malcom2073: that was WAY before they became popular =)
[22:19:38] <Jymmm> malcom2073: wait til he uses the inverter =)
[22:19:48] <malcom2073> I saw heh
[22:20:00] <malcom2073> Ah heh, so prices skyrocketed when demand went up I guess?
[22:22:01] <Jymmm> I think someone misidentified what they were =)
[22:22:29] <Jymmm> maybe they thught it was a typo.... 1200uF instead of 1200F =)
[22:26:11] <Jymmm> malcom2073: It be cool if there was a research center where cost/price wasn't a factor. Not outragious things like a 24 caret dimaond heatsink, but realistic things like a 1,000,000 mile tire (goodyear has the patent on that)
[22:26:42] <malcom2073> Heh
[22:27:14] <Jymmm> or a car that does 120MPG, that was done back in the 80's
[22:29:23] <malcom2073> I got to play with wikispeeds 100mpg car
[22:29:57] <malcom2073> That was pretty cool
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[22:30:59] <Jymmm> Some college used parts from various cars, fiat, toyota, etc
[22:31:35] <Jymmm> I can't find it now sadly, but it wasn't just theory, they actually built the thing from used car parts
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[22:39:32] <mozmck> I laugh at these "efficient" hybrids that get 40 mpg
[22:39:47] <malcom2073> The US and the UK have differing ideas of acceptable fuel economy heh
[22:40:02] <mozmck> The VW diesels sold in the US get that easily and up to 50mpg or so.
[22:40:14] <malcom2073> My car gets around.... 9-10
[22:40:16] <malcom2073> mpg
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[22:40:28] <mozmck> malcom2073: you in the UK?
[22:40:33] <malcom2073> mozmck: nooooo
[22:40:33] <malcom2073> heh
[22:40:36] <malcom2073> USA, cheap fuel
[22:40:49] <mozmck> i see.
[22:41:25] <mozmck> EPA's idiot rules make the fuel economy stay down.
[22:41:53] <FrankZappa> Howso?
[22:42:24] <mozmck> How so? Well, it is the EPA that won't let all the 60 to 75+ mpg diesel cars in the US.
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[22:42:52] <XXCoder> yeah due to antiqued antipollution rulkes
[22:43:11] <mozmck> Honda has a 75mpg accord in europe, Ford has a 65 mpg escort wagon, etc.
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[22:44:20] <FrankZappa> Whats your source?
[22:44:26] <mozmck> not just antiqued, but I think intentionally stupid. If you burn half as much fuel, you put out less pollution by default than a car burning twice as much.
[22:44:43] <mozmck> source for what? the cars available in the EU?
[22:45:01] <XXCoder> even if double pollution high mog means still lower pollution
[22:45:07] <mozmck> or the EPA rules stopping them from coming over?
[22:45:48] <mozmck> I have read many articles, websites, and talked to people who have tried to even bring one car over.
[22:46:11] <FrankZappa> So whats your EPA leg source?
[22:46:15] <FrankZappa> Which reg needs changing?
[22:47:47] <FrankZappa> Clean Air Act?
[22:47:53] <mozmck> I haven't looked at the regs myself - too many of them and no time here.
[22:48:13] <FrankZappa> Did you ever consider the diesel in Germany for auto use isn't the same as whatever is legally called "diesel" in the US?
[22:48:24] <FrankZappa> So, you are just hand waving then, I guess
[22:49:37] <zq> zultron: yes i have. i'll be creating some pull requests tonight.
[22:49:57] <FrankZappa> Maybe these cars need pollution to be so efficient
[22:50:04] <FrankZappa> lead does help engines quite a lot
[22:50:10] <zq> is it normal to have 60% constnat usage by the rtapi process?
[22:50:26] <FrankZappa> interesting op ed http://hanlonblog.dailymail.co.uk/2013/07/diesel-time-to-ban-this-filthy-fuel.html
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[22:51:35] <malcom2073> "as a cyclist" and I stopped reading
[22:52:05] <malcom2073> cyclists hate diesels because a few dicks like to blow smoke at them when they take up the whole road
[22:52:09] <FrankZappa> http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/why-european-diesel-cars/
[22:52:34] <FrankZappa> well, your bias has been established :)
[22:53:03] <malcom2073> As has the article writers :)
[22:53:25] <FrankZappa> you hate cyclists, therefore anything he has to say is invalid.
[22:53:46] <FrankZappa> That's precisely one cause of ignorance
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[22:54:11] <malcom2073> I don't hate cyclists
[22:54:18] <FrankZappa> And it tells me you have no interest in dialogue on the subject. You allow agreement, or jousting.
[22:54:18] <malcom2073> I hate cyclists that use that as an excuse to hate diesels
[22:54:25] <mozmck> That's exactly what that cyclist does, he hates diesels so therefore the government should ban then.
[22:54:32] <malcom2073> The second article however seems more valid
[22:55:00] <FrankZappa> ... because it doesn't mention the problems with diesel in the US.
[22:55:07] <zeeshan> woohoo
[22:55:11] <zeeshan> won a bunch of dial indicators
[22:55:19] <FrankZappa> My final advice to you is, beware oversimplification
[22:55:21] <zeeshan> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Lot-Of-8-Dial-Indicators-Mitutoyo-Ash-Fowler-Machinist-Tools-/171334790581?nma=true&si=Cm%252FTIwWx7C547el5voWD%252FL1UMLU%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557
[22:55:24] <zeeshan> so many indicators
[22:58:31] <mozmck> I would say that you should beware emotional arguments devoid of good science and facts. I could have missed some studies, but I have not seen any actual studies showing drastically higher incidents of cancer and all in diesel mechanics than anyone else. If diesel exhaust is as bad as some try to say, it would show up in diesel mechanics first and be *well* known, because they live in diesel exhaust.
[22:58:40] <FrankZappa> Good science and facts?
[22:58:57] <FrankZappa> What "facts" does your argument possess?
[22:59:22] <FrankZappa> And who are the sources of these facts?
[23:00:24] <FrankZappa> Are they, by any chance, the same guy who said a passenger on MH370 smuggled his iphone up his rectum, and sent him a picture from a secret US airstrip?
[23:00:44] <FrankZappa> Do you feel stupid yet, or should I continue?
[23:00:57] <FrankZappa> http://www.snopes.com/politics/conspiracy/xl1.asp
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[23:01:27] * FrankZappa buffs fingernails
[23:01:44] <zeeshan> FrankZappa: do you do anything but argue with people
[23:01:46] <zeeshan> all day long
[23:01:50] * FrankZappa uses 600 grit stick-on pneumatic sander airtool
[23:02:21] <mozmck> Stupid? :) no, I pity you.
[23:02:33] <mozmck> bbl
[23:02:49] <zeeshan> diesel is more of a nautral pollutant than gasoline
[23:02:51] <zeeshan> cause of soot formation
[23:02:55] <zeeshan> due to its inherent design
[23:03:32] <zeeshan> internal combustion engines by heywood covers the process in depth
[23:03:45] <FrankZappa> you pity the people who demonstrate that you're full of shit.
[23:03:55] <FrankZappa> I bet you've gotten far in life with that technique.
[23:04:08] <zeeshan> but with all these fancy filters and stuff take care of it
[23:04:15] <zeeshan> FrankZappa: you're a tard
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[23:04:34] <zeeshan> you need to learn to communicate with other human beings
[23:04:43] <zeeshan> or sit on your own island in the middle of an ocean
[23:04:47] <zeeshan> your attitude is terible
[23:05:32] <XXCoder> ad hominem is always fun
[23:07:46] <jdh> as a cyclist, you are all fuckwits.
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[23:09:01] <FrankZappa> me?
[23:09:10] <FrankZappa> I used to ride
[23:09:25] <FrankZappa> nothing worse than sucking diesel, it's true
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[23:09:29] <jdh> it's your fault diesel drivers wont' share the road
[23:09:45] <malcom2073> A couple asshole bikers anda couple asshole truckers ruin it for everyone
[23:12:51] <FrankZappa> what do they ruin?
[23:13:57] <FrankZappa> haha you haven't even bothered to float your fake source
[23:14:06] <FrankZappa> you suck at le trolling
[23:14:16] <zeeshan> jdh
[23:14:19] <zeeshan> i will run you over with my CAR
[23:14:21] <zeeshan> !
[23:14:31] <zeeshan> unless you finish your CNC
[23:15:05] <jdh> run over by a ricer.
[23:15:06] <jdh> uh huh.
[23:16:28] <zeeshan> hah
[23:16:51] <zeeshan> i love my friends diesel truck
[23:16:56] <zeeshan> it pisses out black soot from the side
[23:17:04] <zeeshan> so it sprays the bicyclists as we go by :P
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[23:27:27] <XXCoder> tasty soot
[23:27:36] <humble_sea_bass> to think that's funny makes you literally the worst person ever
[23:27:50] <XXCoder> nah
[23:27:54] <XXCoder> theres lot worse stuff
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[23:28:17] <FrankZappa> the cage is always reconfiguring
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[23:28:28] <humble_sea_bass> sure, he could be southern and think that slavery was a boon for blacks
[23:28:52] <XXCoder> exactly. theres still plenty distance down on worse list
[23:29:00] <XXCoder> of course different views different lists
[23:29:08] <humble_sea_bass> but there is something seriously fucked up about disdain for the walking/cycling public
[23:30:42] <XXCoder> yeah
[23:31:17] <zeeshan> humble_sea_bass:
[23:31:24] <zeeshan> i hate cyclists
[23:31:34] <zeeshan> so it's amusing to see soot in their face
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[23:31:48] <zeeshan> especially when they're running stop signs, red lights
[23:31:58] <zeeshan> and veering out of their bike lane
[23:32:03] <malcom2073> zeeshan: Pretty sure that makes you a bad person. Judging the many by the few.
[23:32:09] <Valen> zeeshan: you american?
[23:32:15] <zeeshan> canadian
[23:32:34] <zeeshan> it's okay, i already know i'm the scum of the earth
[23:32:39] <malcom2073> k :)
[23:32:39] <zeeshan> can't make me feel bad :)
[23:32:44] <malcom2073> At least you're self aware heh
[23:32:45] <humble_sea_bass> nah, just backwoods
[23:33:04] <humble_sea_bass> because shit drivers don't exist
[23:33:26] <XXCoder> you sure? lots manture movers out there ;)
[23:33:27] <zeeshan> they do
[23:33:34] <humble_sea_bass> and because a ton of steel is easily damaged by a 30lb bike
[23:33:42] <zeeshan> it's just the frequency of seeing a cyclist do lame shit
[23:33:42] <humble_sea_bass> well, aluminum and composites
[23:33:48] <humble_sea_bass> we don't have deloreans
[23:33:50] <zeeshan> is more so then a bad driver
[23:33:59] <zeeshan> humble_sea_bass: why don't you guys stop at stop signs
[23:34:01] <zeeshan> and red lights
[23:34:07] <zeeshan> like normal people on the road
[23:34:50] <zeeshan> and touch my car when we're stuck in traffic?
[23:34:50] <zeeshan> :P
[23:34:52] <humble_sea_bass> because it isn't a motor vehicle, and I live in a city that wasn't planned by fucktards so I cant speak to what people do and don't do there
[23:35:02] <zeeshan> if you'r eon the road
[23:35:08] <zeeshan> you must follow highway laws
[23:35:20] <zeeshan> highway traffic act for ontario, canada
[23:35:26] <zeeshan> states you gotta stop at stop signs and traffic lights
[23:35:27] <humble_sea_bass> but I think it is fundamentaly disdain for people that are perceived as poor, because fuck you for walking or biking
[23:35:38] <zeeshan> haha i don't think that way man
[23:35:44] <zeeshan> some of those bikes cost like 7000$
[23:35:51] <zeeshan> cf frame, fancy aluminum
[23:35:53] <zeeshan> cf wheels
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[23:36:36] <XXCoder> lol I would be lucky to sell mine for $100
[23:36:41] <humble_sea_bass> *shrug* I just think it is fucked to proactively try and harm people, especially with a vehicle
[23:37:01] <XXCoder> expecially since I bought it new for $100 and it has mileage of over 1,000 miles
[23:37:15] <zeeshan> humble_sea_bass: soot in their face is a bit of love, not harm
[23:37:16] <zeeshan> :D
[23:37:34] <humble_sea_bass> but in California, and part of the South, you literally get viewed as an asshole for walking or biking, because you probably suck on obamas govt teat
[23:37:40] <zeeshan> i love the taste and smell of soot
[23:37:42] <zeeshan> yum
[23:38:05] <XXCoder> humble even in mall? heh jk
[23:38:10] <zeeshan> i'm just gonna get a couple horses
[23:38:12] <jdh> heh... my bike cost more than my first 5 cars
[23:38:12] <zeeshan> and ride em in the bike lane
[23:38:28] <zeeshan> leave some poop trails
[23:38:28] <zeeshan> ;D
[23:38:33] <humble_sea_bass> that happens here, nobody mad
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[23:38:52] <zeeshan> jdh: why you riding a fancy bike
[23:39:01] <zeeshan> when you should be fixing your cnc
[23:39:08] <jdh> because I got tired of riding my crappy bike.
[23:39:45] <jdh> it's not that fancy. I just had a lot of crappy cars.
[23:39:57] <jdh> and I'm old. shit was cheaper back then.
[23:40:17] <Jymmm> 5x $500 car is still $2500 bicycle
[23:40:22] <zeeshan> my daily driver is a 2000$ car
[23:40:31] <zeeshan> my fancy car is appraised at 36k
[23:40:39] <zeeshan> nothing beats driving a 2000$ car everyday
[23:40:42] <jdh> I now wish I had gotten the $2800 one instead
[23:40:43] <zeeshan> you can give zero fux
[23:40:53] <humble_sea_bass> file:///C:/Users/Oscar/Downloads/jmeggs-TRB-IDAHO-AUG10.pdf
[23:41:32] <jdh> seriously?
[23:41:32] <zeeshan> you hit a pot hole? its okay. you hit a curb? its okay. there is a 5 ft snow pile on the road? its okay. drive through it? your car door gets dented by a tard @ a parking lot? its okay
[23:41:38] <postaL> lol
[23:41:55] <zeeshan> my neighbours kids
[23:41:58] <zeeshan> decided to draw on my car
[23:42:03] <zeeshan> with a frigging screw driver
[23:42:09] <zeeshan> i have stickmen on my left door
[23:42:11] <zeeshan> its a blak car
[23:42:20] <postaL> lol
[23:42:20] <jdh> damn canadians
[23:42:22] <XXCoder> wow your neighborhood is shi
[23:42:30] <zeeshan> dude they're cute lil kids
[23:42:34] <zeeshan> like 4-5 years old
[23:42:42] <zeeshan> they made 3 stickmen and 1 cat
[23:42:48] <Jymmm> zeeshan: fuck if they are!
[23:42:58] <humble_sea_bass> http://www.laracingx.com/
[23:43:05] <humble_sea_bass> I drive a super late model
[23:43:08] <zeeshan> now if it was the car in the garage, i woulda cried
[23:43:09] <zeeshan> :{
[23:43:24] <zeeshan> and murdered
[23:43:24] <zeeshan> =D
[23:43:33] <humble_sea_bass> a marble on the road wrecked my shit
[23:43:42] <zeeshan> thats another one
[23:43:43] <Jymmm> zeeshan: chalk, sidewalk = cute. screwdriver, NEIGHBOR's car = beat the living shit out of em!
[23:43:45] <zeeshan> stone chips flying off trucks
[23:43:59] <zeeshan> the front of my car has so many stone chips its not funny
[23:44:02] <zeeshan> Jymmm: haha
[23:44:13] <zeeshan> its a cheapo car meant for a to b
[23:44:46] <zeeshan> Jymmm: you know at least its not as bad as the two frigging cocks my friends
[23:44:47] <Jymmm> and wtf are 4-5yo's doing with a screwdriver in the first place???
[23:44:52] <zeeshan> screw drivered onto my trunk
[23:45:06] <zeeshan> those ones i had to fill in with a sharpie
[23:45:26] <zeeshan> Jymmm: no idea, prolly stole it from their dads work bench
[23:45:41] <Jymmm> I say autonmous CNC tazer
[23:45:49] <zeeshan> linuxcnc powered
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