#linuxcnc | Logs for 2014-05-22

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[00:27:59] <Aero-Tec> looking for downloadable Gcode files for linux cnc
[00:28:22] <Aero-Tec> need some lathe and mill startup files
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[00:29:29] <Tecan> Aero luckily gcode is easy to write
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[00:30:41] <Aero-Tec> I hand code all the time
[00:30:48] <andypugh> Aero-Tec: Try opening a jpeg on your mill :-)
[00:30:56] <Aero-Tec> I like it better then CAM code
[00:31:08] <Aero-Tec> ?
[00:31:13] <andypugh> You might be surprised at the result
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[00:31:31] <Aero-Tec> for real?
[00:31:37] <andypugh> (depending on the filters set up on your system)
[00:31:42] <Aero-Tec> do I need to rename it?
[00:32:12] <Aero-Tec> is there a vid of someone doing that?
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[00:32:20] <andypugh> It will certainly work with the sim configs.
[00:32:33] <andypugh> They are set up to use the image-2-gcode filter
[00:33:07] <andypugh> Which converts an image to a depth map
[00:33:17] <Aero-Tec> cool
[00:33:55] <Aero-Tec> just looking for sample Gcode and starting gcode for linux cnc
[00:33:57] <andypugh> You should also find some sample files in your nc_files folder, such as 3D chips (carve a penguin)
[00:35:08] <tjtr33> Jymmm, the control type used by linuxcnc is position or velocity. the control type used for edm, polishing, crush grinding is 'gap control'
[00:35:09] <tjtr33> (position or velocity depends on process loop set point vs actual sensed value, not time.lastposn and last vel)
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[00:35:20] <zeeshan> http://www.ebay.com/itm/COMPLETE-HUOT-DRILL-BLANK-INDEX-A-Z-/111360427985?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item19ed9947d1
[00:35:25] <zeeshan> imagine opening a dill index
[00:35:29] <zeeshan> and then being like 'wtf'
[00:35:34] <zeeshan> this would make a good present to troll someone
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[00:39:01] <XXCoder1> drill blanks
[00:39:02] <XXCoder1> lol
[00:39:05] <zeeshan> haha
[00:39:26] <PetefromTn_> Damn man I am still shakin' here..
[00:39:40] -!- tris [tris!tristan@2001:1868:a00a::4] has joined #linuxcnc
[00:39:55] <zeeshan> why
[00:39:55] <PetefromTn_> Just took a ride after dinner to take my wife and kids to get some Ice cream.
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[00:40:43] <PetefromTn_> on the way back we were driving along talking and some jackass in a black sedan musta been texting or something came across the line and into our lane
[00:40:43] <Aero-Tec> all I am looking for is the INI starting gcode
[00:41:06] <PetefromTn_> The windows were tinted real dark so I could not see the driver
[00:41:24] <Aero-Tec> good thing your OK
[00:41:31] <PetefromTn_> I slammed on the brakes and tried to steer away.
[00:41:32] <Aero-Tec> could have been bad
[00:41:41] <PetefromTn_> He missed us by LITERALLY inches.
[00:41:45] <Aero-Tec> he hit you?
[00:41:49] <Aero-Tec> ok
[00:42:22] <Aero-Tec> get his license number?
[00:42:33] <PetefromTn_> my wife wanted me to chase them down and kick their asses
[00:42:35] <Aero-Tec> could report him
[00:42:53] <Aero-Tec> I would chase his but get number and report him
[00:42:58] <Aero-Tec> not kick ass
[00:42:58] <PetefromTn_> that was so damn close it is not even funny
[00:43:11] <Aero-Tec> that can get you into deep dodo
[00:43:43] <PetefromTn_> I was bracing for impact man..
[00:43:44] <XXCoder1> ow
[00:44:04] <PetefromTn_> and when he missed us I was so amped I could not even think to get a license plate number or anything.
[00:44:29] <XXCoder1> year ago I lost my super realible car to hit and run :( fuck bad drivers
[00:44:38] <XXCoder1> now i got a nice white tickimg bomb
[00:44:42] <XXCoder1> er car I mean
[00:45:11] <Aero-Tec> same thing happened to my dad, all of us were in the car and this mad man came around the corner on our side of the road, not sure how he did not hit us. my dad chased him down and asked whats his problem
[00:45:20] <PetefromTn_> I am amazed he did not hit us....
[00:46:03] <PetefromTn_> My wife is so pissed off I sure hope we do not see that car anywhere soon.
[00:46:16] <Aero-Tec> he said the speed for corner said 70 so he was going 70. we had just converted to metric and his truck was in MPH not KPH
[00:47:18] <XXCoder1> jeez
[00:47:32] <Aero-Tec> he was French Canadian, and we live out west so we do not see many of them out here
[00:47:57] <XXCoder1> heh my old car used to refuse to switch away from metric so I have to figure kph - mph conversion while driving. luckly most common was 100 kmp = 60 mph approx
[00:48:02] <XXCoder1> kph
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[00:48:15] <Aero-Tec> yep
[00:48:25] <Aero-Tec> but what a dumb ass
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[00:51:27] <Aero-Tec> he just went through our town, but he was not going 50 MPH
[00:51:57] <Aero-Tec> when the sign said 50 IN TOWN you would think he would figure it out
[00:52:22] <Aero-Tec> I never did buy his BS
[00:52:37] <Aero-Tec> I am sure he was just trying to cover his ass
[00:53:14] <Aero-Tec> my dad seemed to buy it, but he could have been looking for a way to just get away from the conflict
[00:54:08] <Aero-Tec> I was wanting to take it further but I was just a kid at the time, about 15 or so
[00:54:56] <Aero-Tec> thought he should be reported for reckless driving and endangerment of others
[00:55:19] <Aero-Tec> not that the cops would do sweet bugger all
[00:55:58] <Aero-Tec> but if he gets reported enough he may get his license taken away
[00:57:03] <Aero-Tec> anyways
[00:57:09] <Aero-Tec> back to gcode
[00:57:15] <FrankZappa> gee
[00:57:20] <FrankZappa> code
[00:57:26] <Aero-Tec> there is a place where one can upload gcode
[00:57:49] <Aero-Tec> probably more then one
[00:58:06] <PetefromTn_> to show it to others?
[00:58:18] <PetefromTn_> pastebin?
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[00:59:41] <FrankZappa> http://replicat.org/generators
[01:06:07] <andypugh> kph to mph is easy, it’s just 4 binary shifts and a decimal one the other way :-)
[01:07:26] <andypugh> So, 23mph? That’s 23->46->92->184->368->36.8kph :-)
[01:07:59] <andypugh> 64kph? 64-32-16-8-4-40mph
[01:08:03] <zeeshan> any students in here
[01:08:07] <zeeshan> Once a degree has been conferred, a student cannot be charged with academic dishonesty that is alleged to have occurred while they were working towards that degree.
[01:08:10] <zeeshan> true or false? :[
[01:08:14] <zeeshan> im thinking false
[01:08:31] <andypugh> I suspect it depends on where you are
[01:08:32] <XXCoder1> andypugh: interesting
[01:09:31] <zeeshan> andypugh: youre right
[01:09:33] <zeeshan> its in the policy paper.
[01:09:41] <zeeshan> his P olicy applies to all registered students, to students who have withdrawn or graduated if it is alleged that they committed academic dishonesty during the time they were registered stud ents
[01:10:30] <andypugh> I am pretty sure that in the UK they can withdraw your degree if it turns out you didn’t earn it. Like they can withdraw the right to practice of a doctor.
[01:10:40] <zeeshan> thats cool
[01:10:45] <zeeshan> keeps trust within the system.
[01:11:12] <zeeshan> cheaters should be eliminated!
[01:11:44] <andypugh> People stupid enough to get caught cheating should be ;-)
[01:12:08] <zeeshan> lol
[01:12:32] <andypugh> (No, I don’t condone cheating, and I earned my degrees fair and square)
[01:12:52] <XXCoder1> I earned both mine fair and sqare too, and I hate cheaters
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[01:15:36] <zeeshan> same here
[01:15:55] <zeeshan> a guy i knew got caught surfing for answers on his phone in the middle of a final exam
[01:15:56] <andypugh> But then, we would say that, wouldn’t we?
[01:15:57] <zeeshan> he got caught lol
[01:17:12] <andypugh> When I toook my exams the wire across the floor to the phone would have been a giveaway :-)
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[01:17:23] <XXCoder1> zeeshan: did you see this pic of some guy with fake arm and real one under table using phone to look for answers?
[01:17:50] <zeeshan> no
[01:17:52] <zeeshan> hahah
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[01:18:18] <zeeshan> link?
[01:18:28] <XXCoder1> sec
[01:18:31] <XXCoder1> if can find
[01:18:57] <XXCoder1> http://everydayfunnyfunny.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/how-to-cheat-on-a-test-fake-arms.jpg
[01:19:09] <XXCoder1> I was wrong
[01:19:11] <XXCoder1> TWO fake arms
[01:19:27] <zeeshan> ROFL
[01:21:27] <andypugh> How can you be sure that they are fake?
[01:22:18] <XXCoder1> no hands lol
[01:23:03] <XXCoder1> I recal reading about one person using random pattern cup and using colored glasses to see one color - one with answers and notes
[01:25:22] <jp_mill> ok need some guidance on steppers. for some reason I can not get my motors to rotate faster than 58ipm regardless of step scale and micro stepping combination
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[01:26:22] <jp_mill> also regardless if the motors are connected to the machine/screw or not
[01:27:19] <andypugh> How many steps per second is that?
[01:28:30] <andypugh> 200 x microstepping x 60 x pitch
[01:29:05] <jp_mill> 96000
[01:29:26] <jp_mill> oh add another zero 960000
[01:30:13] <andypugh> So, 1000nS per step.
[01:30:28] <andypugh> I suspect that this is not a parallel port setup?
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[01:30:39] <jp_mill> no 5i25 and 7i76
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[01:31:56] <andypugh> I don’t know what the 5i25 maxes out at (I think it may be 10Mhz) but you are quite possibly on the limit of step-time + space-time
[01:32:29] <andypugh> What have you set those at? And what can the drive handle
[01:32:37] <jp_mill> yeah i tried playing with them
[01:32:45] <jp_mill> they were both at 5050
[01:32:55] <andypugh> There you are
[01:33:03] <jp_mill> at 1000 now but no difference
[01:33:06] <pcw_home> thats 100 KHZ or so max
[01:33:19] <pcw_home> 1000 is 500 KHz max
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[01:34:00] <andypugh> You may need fewer microsteps
[01:34:04] <pcw_home> 5i25 limit is 8.33 MHz
[01:34:44] <jp_mill> i cant go any lower on the micro steps 400 is the lowest setting
[01:35:08] <pcw_home> 400 ustep or 400 step/rev?
[01:35:23] <andypugh> I don’t think many stepper drives can go above a few Mhz
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[01:35:42] <jp_mill> 400steps/rev
[01:35:56] <andypugh> Ok, that’s 2x microstepping
[01:35:58] <pcw_home> so thats 1/2 steps
[01:37:10] <andypugh> My new harmonic drive arrived today, it’s lovely. Now I need to remember what I wanted it for :-)
[01:37:45] <zeeshan> pcw_home: i don't mean to beat on a dead horse, but could you give me a link to an article that explains how increasing the microstep count won't decrease torque
[01:38:11] <zeeshan> http://www.micromo.com/microstepping-myths-and-realities.aspx
[01:38:13] <zeeshan> this site right?
[01:39:12] <pcw_home> yes thats ok but people mistake _incremental_ torque with stall torque
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[01:39:54] <zeeshan> 'incremental torque vs stall torque' <- google comes up with nothing
[01:39:57] <zeeshan> whats the difference?
[01:40:02] <zeeshan> i know what stall torque is
[01:40:06] <zeeshan> but whats incremental torque
[01:40:44] <pcw_home> how much torque is needed to force the shaft 1 ustep out of position
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[01:41:31] <zeeshan> so that means you're decreasing incremental torque as you increase the microstepping amount, meaning you'll actually have less feed force available?
[01:41:41] <zeeshan> (in the case of a lathe)
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[01:42:31] <pcw_home> no, its the same
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[01:44:10] <pcw_home> (well above 1/4 stepping or so, 1/2 stepping is funny)
[01:45:05] <zeeshan> 1.8 degree = 1 step. assuming 1ft-lb available at full step. at 1/4 step you break that 1 step into 4 steps. so you'd only have roughly 0.25 ft-lb of torque per 1/4 step?
[01:45:08] <zeeshan> is that whats going on
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[01:45:39] <zeeshan> i know that conversion isn't correct in the above statement
[01:45:41] <zeeshan> but is that the idea?
[01:46:02] <zeeshan> when you add up the total amount of torque available for those 4 microsteps, it adds up to 1ft-lb
[01:46:04] <zeeshan> i dunno :P
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[01:46:08] <jdh> real machines have servos
[01:46:16] <zeeshan> jdh hush, im trying to understand something
[01:46:57] <pcw_home> so if i do full stepping (200 steps/turn) the force needed to displace the rotor a full step is ~the stall torque
[01:46:58] <pcw_home> if i do 256 ustepping the force needed to displace the shaft a full step (1/200 of a turn is the same)
[01:47:12] <andypugh> I am not certain that “detente torque” is relevant for an energised motor? And I distrust any site that can’t spell “wreaks havoc”
[01:47:59] <zeeshan> so microstepping is a win-win situation
[01:48:06] <pcw_home> but the amount of torque needed to displace the rotor 1/256th or 1/200 of a turn is much smaller
[01:48:10] <zeeshan> shouldn't rely on it for increased resolution,
[01:48:17] <zeeshan> but for the fact that it makes the stepper drive smoothly
[01:48:18] <pcw_home> s/or/of/
[01:48:21] <zeeshan> and decreases resonance
[01:48:29] <andypugh> And you run out of step-rate far sooner
[01:48:33] <pcw_home> yes that mainly what you get
[01:48:55] <pcw_home> you do get higher resolution with good drives/motors at light loads
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[01:49:53] <andypugh> Steppers + Resolver feedback and a servo drive is what we need :-)
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[01:49:57] <pcw_home> ~16 or 32 ustep is about as high a resolution increase you can get
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[01:50:22] <jp_mill> andypugh: if i increase the micro stepping to 1/4 or 1/8 stepping i get the same behaviour. Motor stalls out at 58ipm. If it was a timing issue I would think that with the increased micro stepping it would stall out at a lower feed rate. or am i wrong in some manner.
[01:50:24] <pcw_home> the Leadshine hybrid step drives are quite nice (encoder feedback)
[01:50:44] <XXCoder1> someone and me once found motor with step angle 0.8 degree
[01:50:47] <XXCoder1> it was nuts
[01:51:06] <pcw_home> maybe thats as fast as you step motor/drive will run
[01:51:24] <zeeshan> max speed i thought was limited by your pulses from the computer
[01:51:33] <zeeshan> and your drive's ability to intrepret em
[01:51:39] <andypugh> jp_mill: what stepper RPM is this? it might just be the voltage/inductance thing. But that doesn’t really fit with the load not being important
[01:51:41] <zeeshan> not related to microstepping
[01:51:56] <zeeshan> nm.
[01:52:01] <zeeshan> <-noob
[01:52:04] <pcw_home> and torque loss at high speeds
[01:52:40] <zeeshan> so since my linuxcnc stuff can generate a pulse train that works for upto 150ipm
[01:52:42] <zeeshan> @ 1/4 step
[01:52:48] <zeeshan> and i only want 100ipm,
[01:52:52] <zeeshan> i should prolly increase the step size
[01:52:57] <zeeshan> er
[01:53:00] <zeeshan> increase microstepping
[01:53:16] <pcw_home> check if its smoother
[01:53:21] <jp_mill> keep in mind this is running on the bench. I thought it was a torque mechanical issue until i disconnected the motors and saw that they were stalling out unloaded
[01:53:25] <zeeshan> it is definitely a lot smoother
[01:53:32] <zeeshan> at 1/8 microstep
[01:53:32] <pcw_home> (and you can still get your desired IPM)
[01:54:00] <zeeshan> the main reason i didnt increase microstepping too much is cause i thought i would not be able to get lots of feed force
[01:54:03] <andypugh> jp_mill: Could be resonance. Have you tried clamping the motor to the table?
[01:54:20] <jp_mill> Yeah
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[01:54:43] <andypugh> What supply voltage?
[01:54:45] <pcw_home> nah you dont lose torque (but you dont get all the resolution you might think)
[01:54:51] <zeeshan> thats fine
[01:55:00] <zeeshan> im relying on the ball screw to dictate resolution
[01:55:03] <zeeshan> and the pulleys
[01:55:15] <zeeshan> i trust mechanical stuff!
[01:55:28] <zeeshan> thank you for clarifying this to me.
[01:55:42] <jp_mill> 48V and 60 V tested with two different drive from same leadshine knockoff mfg
[01:55:55] <pcw_home> if you want higher res, gear down more (or use servos)
[01:56:10] <zeeshan> i have 0.0009 resolution in the Z axis
[01:56:14] <andypugh> Hmm, you are shooting down my theories quicker than I can think of them
[01:56:17] <zeeshan> and will have 0.0003 resolution in the X axis
[01:56:21] <zeeshan> thats plenty ithink for a lathe
[01:56:36] <zeeshan> just solely based on mechanics
[01:57:00] <zeeshan> jp_mill: i don't know if you have this problem
[01:57:01] <andypugh> Am I the only one to think that servos + resolvers are the best of all?
[01:57:12] <zeeshan> but if you set your jitter microseconds is set too high
[01:57:18] <zeeshan> itll seriously slow down your steppers
[01:57:25] <jp_mill> Yeah this one is bugging me was chasing mechanical issues for the last two months just to find out i should of checked the motors to start with
[01:57:27] <pcw_home> servos and Resolute encoders...
[01:57:44] <andypugh> Hmm, maybe.
[01:57:45] <jp_mill> @nd that
[01:58:00] <pcw_home> (and 50 KHz or so MOSFET drives)
[01:58:02] <zeeshan> you guys are designing systems for cnc grinders!!!
[01:58:04] <zeeshan> not mills!!
[01:58:04] <zeeshan> :P
[01:58:11] <andypugh> Renishaw sent me a Resolute to play with, it got lost in the post :-(
[01:58:21] <pcw_home> Ouch
[01:58:40] <zeeshan> jp_mill: whats your jitter set to?
[01:58:46] <Tom_itx> andypugh is that the story you're sticking with?
[01:58:47] <Tom_itx> :D
[01:59:09] <jp_mill> it's low its a D510MO board
[01:59:44] <zeeshan> http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/2.4/html/stepconf-basic.png
[01:59:46] <zeeshan> on that screen
[01:59:52] <zeeshan> 'base period maximum jitter'
[02:00:00] <zeeshan> is yours like 5000 to 10000?
[02:00:13] <zeeshan> i remember when i had that set to 15000, and went to 5000
[02:00:21] <zeeshan> i massively increased the ipm
[02:00:24] <andypugh> I can’t help thinking that DIY resolute could be doable with a webcam and a barcode printer.
[02:00:25] * zeeshan is a noob
[02:00:49] <zeeshan> the other thing that severely limited the ipm
[02:00:51] <pcw_home> Yes but not at 40 KHZ update rates
[02:01:28] <zeeshan> oh, he already had 40khz update rates
[02:01:29] <zeeshan> nm
[02:01:31] <skunkworks_> Jymmm: linuxcnc calls it 'adaptive feed'...
[02:01:49] <andypugh> No, that’s pretty insane. In fact we could use that to measure shaft vibrations. Hmm….
[02:01:55] <pcw_home> but for slow speeds (not a bad idea for a toolchanger absolute encoder)
[02:03:28] <andypugh> I don’t actually know what physical principle these use: http://www.polytec.com/fileadmin/user_uploads/Products/Vibrometers/RotVib/Documents/OM_BR_RLV-5500_2010_07_PDF_E.pdf
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[02:06:08] <pcw_home> Those look fairly expensive
[02:06:08] <zeeshan> pcw_home: i wish i knew about what you taught me before :{
[02:06:09] <zeeshan> i could benefit from a mesa card now
[02:06:09] <jdh> buy some, they are cheap.
[02:06:09] <zeeshan> its not about $
[02:06:09] <zeeshan> its about how much of a pain in the ass it will be to convert to
[02:06:12] <zeeshan> ill definitely buy them from the mill
[02:06:17] <zeeshan> *for
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[02:07:19] <pcw_home> If you are happy with 1/8 stepping and your max IPM, a parallel port is fine
[02:07:30] <zeeshan> ill be okay with it for the lathe
[02:07:35] <zeeshan> but that will be unacceptable for the mill
[02:07:53] <zeeshan> especially for the knee.
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[02:07:58] <andypugh> pcw_home: Polytech stuff is expensive, but they can use lasers to measure displacement to a tenth of the wavelength at kHz sample rates. Which sounds like witchcraft to me.
[02:08:07] <pcw_home> (and max IPM is often mode limited by step motor torque loss at high speeds)
[02:08:46] <zeeshan> is there a nice article to follow online
[02:08:48] <pcw_home> Yeah i guess if you are making high speed spindles or jet engines you can afford them....
[02:08:49] <zeeshan> on what card to buy etc?
[02:09:58] <pcw_home> if you want something thats a near drop in replacement for a parallel port hardware wise, I would use suggest the 5I25
[02:12:17] <zeeshan> omg
[02:12:17] * skunkworks_ loves the 5i25...
[02:12:17] <zeeshan> i dont need to re-wire anything
[02:12:17] <zeeshan> all i gotta do is buy the 5i25, plug it into my pci port
[02:12:17] <zeeshan> and run the parallel port cable there
[02:12:17] <zeeshan> ?!
[02:12:17] <jdh> and have another port of IO
[02:12:17] <andypugh> But the 5i25 costs 5x the price of a parallel port and is only 100x faster!
[02:12:17] <zeeshan> and reconfigure the pins in hal
[02:12:17] <skunkworks_> depending on the pinout you need... if you ask pcw nicely - he will probably build you a custom firmware...
[02:13:20] <andypugh> I have an Amazon ECS instance with the Xilinx compiler and the source code all ready to be a firmware-on-demand bot, but then I got distracted by an old motorbike
[02:13:41] <zeeshan> not to belittle the 5i25
[02:13:48] <zeeshan> but its basically a parallel port on steriods
[02:13:52] <zeeshan> didnt know that
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[02:14:30] <skunkworks_> very expandable...
[02:14:45] <andypugh> No, it’s something that can emulate a parallel port on steroids. But that’s just one of the hats it can wear.
[02:15:01] <zeeshan> 10 axis step/dir
[02:15:02] <zeeshan> lol
[02:16:01] <andypugh> Or 768 individual IO lines (potentially 1536 but the daughter cards don’t exist, AFAIK)
[02:17:55] <zeeshan> so since its hardware stepgen
[02:18:05] <zeeshan> does the computer jitter matter still?
[02:18:18] <andypugh> Yes, but less.
[02:18:31] <cradek> you don't need to run a base thread.
[02:18:52] <zeeshan> why didnt you guys tell me this before
[02:18:53] <zeeshan> ?
[02:18:57] <zeeshan> damn you all!
[02:19:17] <zeeshan> :)
[02:19:25] <pcw_home> depending on how you do the corrections the stepgen can tolerate 50 to 300 usec of jitter on the servo thread
[02:19:43] <jdh> I told you several times
[02:19:55] <zeeshan> i guess its one of those things you learn through experience
[02:20:19] <pcw_home> (and still have good performance, and MHZ step rates)
[02:20:42] <zeeshan> the main fact that construed me away from ever needing more pulse is the fact that i read mislead people's forum posts on how torque decreased.
[02:20:47] <zeeshan> so i never wanted to microstep to begin with
[02:21:47] <jdh> have you tried your C6 yet?
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[02:22:07] <zeeshan> no
[02:22:10] <zeeshan> its collecting dust
[02:22:17] <zeeshan> remember im using modbus?
[02:22:26] <jdh> oh, cool.
[02:22:30] <zeeshan> want it?
[02:22:35] <jdh> saves you have having to return it for the C41
[02:22:37] <jdh> no.
[02:22:49] <zeeshan> if anyone wants it, they can gave it
[02:22:54] <andypugh> zeeshan: There is a second-order advantage in a faster pulse rate. Much smaller speed increments at higher speeds.
[02:22:54] <zeeshan> just give me 5 bux for shipping
[02:24:51] <andypugh> Given that the motor can probably only actually follow an intantaneous speed increase of 10% or so without stalling, a much faster base-rate can move that out of the way.
[02:24:51] * Tom_itx saddles up his mule to pay zeeshan his 5 bux
[02:25:00] <zeeshan> haha
[02:25:25] <andypugh> Right, I should have been asleep hours ago
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[02:25:41] <zeeshan> he sleeps early
[02:25:57] <jdh> early in the morning
[02:26:04] <zeeshan> jdh less irc
[02:26:09] <zeeshan> more cnc
[02:26:12] <Tom_itx> isn't it like 3am there?
[02:26:14] <jdh> he's 5hrs ahead?
[02:26:25] <zeeshan> oh, i thought he was in the east coast
[02:26:29] <zeeshan> he's in uk..
[02:31:37] <jdh> keling is selling their cheap 40w co2 for $550 now
[02:33:50] <zeeshan> you planning to build a laser cutter?
[02:34:06] <jdh> I'd buy, not build.
[02:34:22] <jdh> but, for that, you would have to buy, buy better electronics and rebuild
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[02:47:18] <PetefromTn_> Awesome..... Space Balls is on Netflix. Time to watch a classic... ;)
[02:48:34] <XXCoder> :)
[02:48:46] <XXCoder> LUCUOUS SPEED!
[02:50:30] <PetefromTn_> Ludicrous speed...!!
[02:50:38] <PetefromTn_> They've gone to plaid LOL
[02:50:47] <XXCoder> Suck... Suck.. SUCK!!
[02:51:01] <PetefromTn_> Love that movie.
[02:51:06] <XXCoder> yeah
[02:51:15] <XXCoder> I'm my own best friend"
[02:51:30] <PetefromTn_> May the SCHWARTZ be with ya..
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[04:49:27] <NickParker> Someday, I will truly learn to RTFM.
[04:49:52] <NickParker> I've been putting off my mill conversion for a good 2 weeks because I thought the optos on it didn't work on 5v
[04:50:05] <NickParker> Didn't realize 6i25 outputs are 3.3v...
[04:50:29] <NickParker> converters are in the mail now, it should be all up and running in a few days.
[04:50:44] <XXCoder1> nice
[04:53:37] <NickParker> Poking the optos with actual 5v and feeling the stage thump along a step was pretty satisfying.
[04:53:54] <NickParker> I've done that with little steppers before, but 18 lbs is a new personal record
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[06:07:01] <Jymmm> skunkworks_: Is there a more generic term for it by chance?
[06:07:13] <Jymmm> skunkworks_: thanks btw
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[06:47:36] <Deejay> moin
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[07:39:41] <eneuro> Hello, Could you help me choose vismach simulation http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?Vismach for this 3 axis machine (it is like reverse lathe, while tools are rotated and move around mounted workpiece) http://www.linuxcnc.org/index.php/english/forum/49-basic-configuration/27846-cartesian-g-code-to-cylindrical-machine-coordinate?
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[07:52:11] <archivist> probably need to write kins for that machine
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[07:53:48] <archivist> but a 5 axis mill can also do the same as what you are doing
[07:54:18] <eneuro> but where to do it-do I need change vismach.py ?
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[07:56:44] <archivist> your machine is something like XCZ
[07:57:19] <archivist> C being the upward rotary around Z
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[07:58:23] <eneuro> but why XCZ and not CYZ?
[07:58:33] <archivist> so it is a transform between XY (cartesian) to XC (vector) via some trig
[07:59:17] <archivist> X or Y not not a lot of difference
[08:00:15] <archivist> here one either works to a convention or just choose something that works for you
[08:00:55] <archivist> the order of YC or CY is the order it is applied in the model
[08:02:31] <eneuro> so it looks like I could send Cangle in LPT X, Yradius as LPT Y, and Z without any conversion in LPT Z..
[08:03:23] <archivist> LPT knows nothing, you can drive any axis as you want
[08:04:45] <eneuro> only reason for this is in my convention X is marked red, Y green, Z blue and machine parts colour is the same...
[08:06:08] <eneuro> I found that vismach is run using standard Hal tool $ halrun -> loadusr 5axisgui . So I need to create hal configuration for vismach?
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[08:08:51] <archivist> yes and also the hardware images to match your machine
[08:09:21] <eneuro> I will try to follow this vismach tutorial with 5axisgui example and try to setup my machine...
[08:10:09] <eneuro> but which hardware images? I can make STL files easy in Blender or even generate them in software using my STL library?
[08:10:11] <archivist> so far I have been too lazy to do my 5 axis :)
[08:10:59] <archivist> eneuro, if you look in the examples they are drawn direct in the python
[08:12:27] <archivist> long time since I looked at that code
[08:12:52] <eneuro> yep, but there is also section ".stl or .obj import" but without STL example I guess: part = AsciiSTL(filename="path/to/OBJ_file.obj") maybe could work with my STL?
[08:14:05] <eneuro> why not to do it this way desrcibed in this doc "Use a CAD and export .obj or .stl files for each axis consisting the geometry. The files can be produced using [FreeCAD]: Model the solid for each axis, create a mesh and [export] it as .obj or .stl. " ?
[08:16:10] <eneuro> but ok it does not matter, while I could generate... python code if wanted for this machine if I know how to setup this thing and connect to LinuxCNC...
[08:16:36] <archivist> yes that was not not around when I looked
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[08:18:14] <archivist> and I also move my axes around on the machine to do different work so vismach would need an update per job so I stopped looking at it
[08:18:19] <eneuro> I'm not sure how eg. Axis from LinuxCNC will change my vismach machine state? I guess I need to run hal, load my machine or do it something else?
[08:19:13] <eneuro> I'd like to have Axis running and... in another terminal run this vismach machine script?
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[08:19:54] <archivist> the hal connections are the key there, they connect vismach to the machine
[08:20:16] <archivist> yes you run the script separately
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[08:20:35] <eneuro> nice ;)
[08:20:48] <archivist> then it just works :)
[08:22:49] <eneuro> so, now I will have to try to write this code to crack hal to make this transformation from cartesian xyz, to lets say CYZ, run linuxcnc with Axis and in manual MDI try to move my virtual machine I guess..
[08:25:39] <eneuro> I wonder if there is C/C++ interface to LinuxCNC hal? Then I could try to write my own OpenGL application with my machine simulation I guess?
[08:28:55] <archivist> why reinvent when vismach is already there, but yes anything is possible
[08:29:32] <archivist> kins is the part where you need to think
[08:31:00] <archivist> why are you making the machine this way? is it for large(round) objects
[08:31:12] <eneuro> I prefere C/C++/Java but I can try do it in other language... kins you mean kinematics or this is something special to vismach something else?
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[08:31:25] <archivist> kinematics
[08:32:36] <eneuro> but kins in vismach or general using Hal and configure it with LinuxCNC?
[08:33:22] <archivist> kinematics in linuxcnc, vismach reads what the machine is doing
[08:34:32] <eneuro> yep, so I think I need a little break before start hacking linuxCNC HAL :D
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[08:40:06] <eneuro> I've found that someones were trying to make LinuxCNC running as diskless machines using network ony and found some manual but to EMC2 http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?Debian_Etch_Server_And_Diskless_LinuxCNC_Thin_Clients anyone got it working with latest LinuxCNC 2.5.4?
[08:45:52] <eneuro> "This page describes how to prepare a system with a Debian Etch server and many diskless EMC2 thin clients" why only Debian Etch-why not to simply install latest LinuxCNC with updates and configure it with NFS/SSH/TFTP server?
[08:46:09] <eneuro> on nother machine?
[08:46:14] <eneuro> another
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[09:04:23] <eneuro> I was able to install nfs-kernel-server with latest LinuxCNC 2.5.4 updated-lets see if I will be able to setup it his way, the diskless clients can run LinuxCNC without a local harddisk, just inserting network cable? ;)
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[12:31:32] <zq_> man
[12:31:37] <zq_> the build system is so broken it ain't even funny
[12:33:57] <archivist> What OS
[12:40:07] <zq_> x86_64-linux-gnu
[12:40:13] <zq_> not that it matters
[12:40:44] <zq_> i rolled back to 2.2.8 when things were less broken
[12:47:20] <archivist> you should be on a 32 bit system with 2.2 that is so old
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[13:26:07] <lair82> Is it supposed to be allowable to perform another MDI function before the first function is finished? Reason I ask is, I noticed the other day on one of our turning centers that I performed a tool change, and before it had finished the first change, I entered another change and my tool turret took off spinning. I did this a few more times and it would do it everytime.
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[13:27:16] <lair82> Essentially another tool change request was allowed before the first tool change had been acknowledged as finished.
[13:30:47] <_methods> interesting
[13:31:06] <_methods> did it complete teh 2nd tool change command?
[13:31:32] <archivist> sounds a bit like a bug
[13:33:03] <_methods> what happens if you put
[13:33:07] <_methods> T1M6:
[13:33:14] <_methods> T2M6;
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[13:33:51] <_methods> does it do 2 tool changes? or just do the last tool change?
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[14:09:38] <PetefromTn_> Mmmmoornin' folks.
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[14:25:20] <pcw_home> NickParker (shoud you read this later): you can drive 5V OPTOs from the 6I25
[14:27:20] <pcw_home> you connect the OPTO + to 5V the OPTO- to FPGA GPIO pin and set the GPIO pin attributes is-output and is-opendrain
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[14:33:50] <NickParker|2> pcw_home: the OPTO - on my drivers are tied together in pairs unfortunately.
[14:34:07] <NickParker|2> It's no big deal, I have converters coming to bump the 3.3v up to 5v
[14:34:11] <CaptHindsight> PCW: http://www.micrel.com/index.php/en/products/lan-solutions/ieee-1588.html do you have drivers for these? or for the standard 10/100 controllers
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[14:45:06] <lair82> it will not finish the second tool change, the tool turret will just keep spinning aimlessly until a counter that I programmed in classicladder stops rotation and sends a fault out that the turret is faulted.
[14:48:21] <lair82> My turret is completely controlled through ladder, after it is finished with its change and retracts to the clamped position, i have a 1 second delay until it pulses the motion.tool-changed pin high, just for safety reasons I have that 1 second delay.
[14:50:32] <lair82> This is on a Cincinnati Milacron turning center, machine weight 38,500lbs with a 7 tool disc turret that weighs in around 2500lbs with all tooling loaded, thats why I have lots of safe guards built into my ladder logic.
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[14:58:31] <_methods> except the safeguard that keeps it from doing 2 consecutive tool changes lol
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[15:30:28] <pcw_home> CaptHindsight: we are using the KSZ8851-16MQL
[15:32:35] <pcw_home> micrel's IEEE1588 MACs are too expensive for us (we would use the much cheaper STM32F4 uproc if IEEE1588 was a requirement)
[15:36:44] <CaptHindsight> Intel lacks the GPU's for me to be interested (among years of bad history) in trying to use them
[15:37:07] <CaptHindsight> ethernet is on all the mini-itx boards
[15:38:33] <CaptHindsight> I keep waiting for someone to beat me to it but all I need is a small form factor Linuxcnc controller at a realistic price
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[15:39:26] <SpeedEvil> What do you mean by 'small form factor' - and why are intel GPUs bad?
[15:39:32] <SpeedEvil> My i3's one is fine
[15:40:02] <CaptHindsight> 10-12" tablet sized controller
[15:40:11] <pcw_home> The J1800s are fine also (much better than the Atoms)
[15:40:34] <pcw_home> also lower power
[15:40:40] <CaptHindsight> no coreboot support unless Google decides to put it into a product
[15:40:43] <SpeedEvil> ah
[15:41:09] <pcw_home> coreboot for baytrail is supposed to be available
[15:41:19] <CaptHindsight> i just stopped developing with Intel ~10 years ago unless paid insanely well
[15:42:25] <pcw_home> http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=MTU4OTU
[15:42:47] <CaptHindsight> unless the coreboot port is for the exact mainboard and exact rev you need docs
[15:43:39] <CaptHindsight> plus now we get HD8xxx graphics in the <10W AMD APU's
[15:44:14] <pcw_home> but a slow CPU
[15:45:16] <CaptHindsight> so Intel is out
[15:46:14] <SpeedEvil> I note that my I3 (desktop) is drawing about 18W, now, and I think I can get that to 12.
[15:46:19] <SpeedEvil> In use.
[15:46:32] <pcw_home> Just sayin AMD has nothing in the same ballpark as the baytrails
[15:46:50] <CaptHindsight> not a problem
[15:47:05] <SpeedEvil> On a more silly point - I wonder if a generic intel tablet with thunderbolt can have a thunderbolt->pcie bridge
[15:47:06] <CaptHindsight> Intel just won't work out
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[15:48:15] <CaptHindsight> A10's and A20's have enough CPU, and of the AMD APU's have been fast enough as well
[15:50:54] <tjtr33> i got the BBB running linuxcnc last night, and now what to do with this QBboard? ( hint hint nudge nudge )
[15:51:26] <tjtr33> 50" lcd tv was only hdmi i had :)
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[15:51:49] <CaptHindsight> all the announcements for Linux support on the Allwinners was premature, all the images are magical mystery distro's
[15:52:16] <tjtr33> awww
[15:52:40] <CaptHindsight> is the display larger than the machine? run simulations at 2X the size of actual
[15:52:57] <tjtr33> 2x simulation is almost for real?
[15:53:40] <CaptHindsight> whats the QB board?
[15:53:52] <tjtr33> CubieBoard ( lazy typist)
[15:54:26] <CaptHindsight> the debian image works with linuxcnc....
[15:54:47] <CaptHindsight> but how it all works and supporting it is a mystery still
[15:55:25] <tjtr33> then i can just try the debian 7.4 sd card
[15:55:44] <tjtr33> ran ok on BBB
[15:55:51] <CaptHindsight> it takes a day or two of fiddling to get linuxcnc to run
[15:56:03] <tjtr33> argh!
[15:56:16] <CaptHindsight> mystery tool chain
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[15:56:59] <CaptHindsight> 15 people all race to first post "I have a login prompt" then don't show how they built it
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[15:57:23] <cradek> then "who cares just copy my disk image"
[15:57:36] <cradek> that's a disturbing trend
[15:57:38] <CaptHindsight> but that doesn't stop 87 companies from making products with it that almost work
[15:58:03] <CaptHindsight> that's how it's been getting
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[15:59:15] <tjtr33> yeah, thats what happened for me. sorry the howto for machinekit is pretty much missing. follow the debian howtos and get real lost. and silly me, i dont know if i can recreate the steps that finally worked.
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[15:59:36] <tjtr33> but will note now while it's "fresh" haha
[16:00:00] <tjtr33> imagewriter does NOT work . xzcat does NOT work, dd does
[16:00:25] <CaptHindsight> thats how the ISO's are for the allwinner stuff
[16:00:43] <tjtr33> the startup screen has menus on the overscan so, you have to enable the rt click menus manually
[16:00:44] <CaptHindsight> you see tons of installed packages but many don't work
[16:00:59] <tjtr33> then you can get a terminal, then you can run linuxcnc
[16:01:24] <CaptHindsight> reminds me of all the early Chinese tablets with Linux
[16:01:35] <tjtr33> no idea whats on menu ( if any) it outta my view
[16:02:13] <tjtr33> those were cool I had one with handwrtining input, practiced Big5 charcters
[16:02:20] <CaptHindsight> or you could load an app that wouldn't fit on the desktop and they didn't enable scrolling
[16:02:55] <CaptHindsight> so the checkbox to save screen resize would be below the taskbar :)
[16:03:11] <tjtr33> haha we had that with linuxcnc a few times. 800x600 was new
[16:03:47] <tjtr33> not linuxcnc's fault, more gnome or whatever we used in the day
[16:04:06] <CaptHindsight> yeah or enable panning
[16:04:22] <CaptHindsight> we had panning on the Mac512's
[16:04:54] <tjtr33> oh bigger virtual screen than phy screen yeah
[16:05:05] <CaptHindsight> it was like working by looking through a big keyhole but it worked
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[16:05:54] <eneuro> did you tried this diskless LinuxCNC boot from this page? http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?Debian_Etch_Server_And_Diskless_LinuxCNC_Thin_Clients I have .TFTP error 1 (File not found)...
[16:06:02] <CaptHindsight> and that was 30 years ago
[16:07:28] <eneuro> after powering diskless PC ... dhcp client sets correct IP...
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[16:07:46] <tjtr33> i'd like this solution for schematics pan zoom scale problems ( data way larger than screen ) http://lmnts.lmnarchitects.com/interaction/grasshopper-canvas-meet-kinect/
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[16:08:05] <tjtr33> sorry eneuro no experience
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[16:13:09] <CaptHindsight> pcw_home: 2khz stepping over ethernet, is that shared between the multiple motors or can you have 4-5 steppers all at 2khz?
[16:19:39] <eneuro> I was so close and had boot pxelinux screen to boot LinuxCNC from network and changed something and no way... ok it is time to break ;)
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[16:20:42] <CaptHindsight> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824009610 20" touchpanels for $160
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[16:25:49] <jdh> if my mill panel as anywhere near completion, I'd think about buying one
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[16:27:26] <IchGuckLive> hi all B)
[16:30:54] <pcw_home> CaptHindsight: 2 KHz servo loop MHz step rates...
[16:31:02] <IchGuckLive> today bearly no minute without a post her in the daylogging
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[16:34:21] <CaptHindsight> pcw_home: is that point to point with no switch between nic and nic?
[16:35:00] <pcw_home> Yes point to point (a switch wont hurt much though)
[16:35:19] <pcw_home> (other traffic _will_ hurt)
[16:35:56] <pcw_home> because its still realtime
[16:36:08] <CaptHindsight> so multiple nics on mainboard if you want to expand or have cnc on one nic and internet on another
[16:37:16] <pcw_home> Yes (or use usb/enet for general net usage)
[16:37:44] <CaptHindsight> skunkworks mentioned a laptop that he was using with linuxcnc, I never heard what he had connected and to what port
[16:38:30] <pcw_home> (thats what I have on my test system currently, MB Ethernet for RT USB --> Ethernet for inet)
[16:39:01] <CaptHindsight> a laptop with good latency numbers could use the nic for cnc and USB-ethernet dongle for internet
[16:39:11] <pcw_home> sure
[16:39:46] <pcw_home> or WIFI for inet
[16:39:48] <CaptHindsight> expresscard slots are disappearing form laptops
[16:41:22] <pcw_home> Yeah
[16:42:11] <pcw_home> although even no slot mini itx MBs have MiniPCIE
[16:42:36] <pcw_home> (Just happen to have an adapter...)
[16:45:31] <CaptHindsight> SPI driver still a mess with Allwinner as well
[16:47:09] <CaptHindsight> maybe I'll visit Microcenter, Tiger Direct etc today with Linuxcnc on a flash drive
[16:48:28] <CaptHindsight> after testing laptops 1-2 the salespeople start getting nosy, think you'r hacking or leaving virus or malware on them :)
[16:50:25] <tjtr33> at tiger find the geek saleskid who interested , maybe willing to find a new way to sell some units once qualified
[16:50:42] <tjtr33> on a weekday they got time
[16:50:44] <CaptHindsight> yeah, had him a drive to use
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[16:51:44] <tjtr33> go naperville, not schaumburg
[16:51:46] <CaptHindsight> http://www.ebay.com/itm/like/181127388375 LPT to ExpressCard Express Card $12.88
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[16:53:19] <pcw_home> spi driver should be less than 20 or so lines of code
[16:53:19] <CaptHindsight> Vernon Hills as well
[16:53:40] <CaptHindsight> for the host?
[16:53:51] <pcw_home> yes
[16:53:52] <CaptHindsight> kernel driver
[16:54:01] <CaptHindsight> no docs
[16:54:12] <pcw_home> kernel driver is a mistake
[16:55:09] <pcw_home> just low level hardware access
[16:55:19] <pcw_home> ban all other access
[16:55:23] <CaptHindsight> http://lkml.org/lkml/2014/2/22/178 oh it's up
[16:55:48] <_methods> http://www.phytec.com/products/single-board-computers/
[16:56:07] <pcw_home> not useful for RT
[16:56:24] <_methods> ah
[16:57:34] <Loetmichel> pcw_home: that depends
[16:58:02] <Loetmichel> Pcnc-DOS had run gread on a 406-100
[16:58:05] <Loetmichel> great
[16:58:40] <Loetmichel> so the cpu should be fast enough. as long as it hasnt to copw eith multiuser/multitasking OSes ;-)
[16:58:41] <IchGuckLive> hi Loetmichel thunder overhad at your hometown
[16:59:02] <Loetmichel> <- suny and hot evening, dont know hat you mean
[16:59:18] <Loetmichel> +n
[16:59:43] <pcw_home> the "not useful for RT" was in response to a SPI kernel driver
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[17:00:39] <_methods> http://newsoffice.mit.edu/2014/algorithms-produce-patterns-that-could-hide-public-eyesores-0521#.U30AvlAij9U.twitter
[17:00:46] <_methods> kinda cool
[17:00:58] <Loetmichel> pcw_home: oh sorry
[17:01:09] <Loetmichel> i thought you meant that small arm computer
[17:02:33] <pcw_home> The Vybrids are interesting kind of like a Sitara/PRU done right (with RT processor a full ARM with FP)
[17:03:46] <CaptHindsight> with the SPI kernel driver we now know the registers for the controller
[17:04:24] <pcw_home> the A10 manual has all the registers
[17:05:10] <IchGuckLive> tmart pd20 at 80USD has a A10 inside
[17:05:15] <pcw_home> and a fairly good description (I suspect the SPI is standard ARM boilerplate)
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[17:11:22] <CaptHindsight> I forget what the hangup was then with SPI, yeah the resisters are in the User Manual
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[17:13:41] <eneuro> finaly I've got ubuntu splash screen while booting regular pc via network from other ubuntu server in VirtualBox (latest LinuxCNC 2.5.4 iso installed updated with tricks from http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?Debian_Etch_Server_And_Diskless_LinuxCNC_Thin_Clients#Preparing_a_sample_client_system :) Need only provide LinuxCNC root filesytem while do not exported full yet ;)
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[17:16:04] <CaptHindsight> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Parallel-Port-DB25-LPT-Printer-PCI-E-PCI-Express-Card-Adapter-Converter-/170992964709
[17:16:16] <IchGuckLive> eneuro: what is your maingoal to ratch as you doing workarounds now for days
[17:16:25] <CaptHindsight> $9.48 LPT Printer to PCI-E PCI Express
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[17:16:46] <pcw_home> Thats pretty cheap
[17:17:12] <IchGuckLive> this cadr dont support EPP its at HP standard
[17:17:28] <pcw_home> are you sure?
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[17:18:03] <eneuro> I'd like to have my LinuxCNC machine.. diskless only ethernet cable and external air for cooling and it looks like it is close to setup this network boot today :D
[17:18:10] <CaptHindsight> WCH CH382L
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[17:18:43] <CaptHindsight> good enough for steppers
[17:18:48] <pcw_home> no idea, wonder if theres a data sheet around
[17:19:08] <CaptHindsight> once we start using servos the price of the PC becomes much less of an issue
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[17:21:24] <eneuro> IchGuckLive: simply build my own first LinuxCNC machine afterhours ;)
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[17:21:49] <IchGuckLive> pcw_home: its a 1284-1994. the epp is at 1997
[17:22:12] <IchGuckLive> eneuro: where are you in the world
[17:22:37] <eneuro> somewhere in Europe ;)
[17:22:45] <pcw_home> EPP predates 1994 so it may well support EPP
[17:22:49] <IchGuckLive> im at the french boarde in germnay
[17:24:00] <IchGuckLive> pcw_home: the 1994 has been ruut in Feb 1994 as there where the Epp lanched and standard changed afrer Feb 1994
[17:24:29] <eneuro> SUN is: 2014-05-22.725 17:23:52 UTC (2456800.225 JD) lat: 5*.****N lon: -2*.***E Sun hour azimuth: -67.121 Sun (geo) azimuth: 247.121 Sun elevation: 7.458 Sun CSP power: 420.9 W Day of the year: 142 :D
[17:24:56] <pcw_home> Yes but it makes no sense that a current chip does not support EPP
[17:25:32] <IchGuckLive> agree on that
[17:25:58] <IchGuckLive> the discription says 1994 not 1997
[17:26:29] <pcw_home> from what I read the very first ieee-1284 standard supports EPP
[17:27:14] <eneuro> ok. I have to find why VirtualBox diskless guest does not boot from my ubunti LinuxCNC TFTP server via network, because this makes me crazy it works on normal PC, but under vbox ;)
[17:27:55] <pcw_home> 1997 just adds parallel device status readback
[17:28:23] <Jymmm> Don't make me pullout my 486 (Circa 1989) and look now =)
[17:28:55] <IchGuckLive> Jymmm: i got one runing
[17:29:10] <Jymmm> IchGuckLive: then look in the BIOS
[17:33:07] <IchGuckLive> Jymmm: only sais ibm parport
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[17:33:39] <pcw_home> Nanging QinHeng... but no datasheest of the WCH382 however (only older chips)
[17:34:07] <Jymmm> http://retired.beyondlogic.org/epp/epp.htm
[17:34:18] <IchGuckLive> someone shoudt get one on that price and get it testing
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[17:35:03] <Jymmm> EPP version 1.7 was released in 1992
[17:35:54] <Jymmm> ...and later adapted into the IEEE 1284 standard.
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[17:36:59] <CaptHindsight> http://wch-ic.com/download/down.asp?id=116 WCH CH352L data sheet
[17:37:30] <CaptHindsight> ● Supporting such as SPP, Nibble, Byte, PS/2, EPP and ECP etc IEEE1284 parallel/printer port modes.
[17:38:12] <Jymmm> http://www.fapo.com/1284faq.htm
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[17:38:49] <CaptHindsight> http://wch-ic.com/download/down.asp?id=117 2nd part of DS
[17:39:08] <pcw_home> its probably similar to the 382
[17:39:35] <Jymmm> Why are we having a EP history lesson?
[17:39:40] <Jymmm> EPP*
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[17:39:57] <pcw_home> and it says epp mode is supported (though so to NetMOS Chips but they dont)
[17:40:19] <CaptHindsight> have to get one to try and see!
[17:41:09] <CaptHindsight> Jymmm: found a $10 PCIe to EPP card on fleabay new
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[17:41:24] <IchGuckLive> ok i got thunder in the region i need to go BYe for today
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[17:41:39] <pcw_home> yep, one hopes it just shows up as a parallel port and doesnt require some magic to enable
[17:41:47] <CaptHindsight> hiding under the bed doesn't work
[17:42:13] <PetefromTn_> Anyone got a good spindle or spindle and axis warmup program for LCNC?
[17:42:15] <tjtr33> yeah but dogs dont listen to reason
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[17:43:06] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: nd you think it's bogus somehow?
[17:43:34] <CaptHindsight> looks like some A10/20 tablets have the SPI lines routed on the board
[17:43:41] <jdh> I got some pcie pport cards. they seem to work fine
[17:43:43] <CaptHindsight> Jymmm: we just don't know yet
[17:44:17] <pcw_home> It just that PCIE PP cards have been more expensive so a $10 one is nice if its any good
[17:44:20] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: how is this any different than a PCI paraport card?
[17:44:34] <pcw_home> fits in a MB with only PCIE
[17:44:57] <Jymmm> pcw_home: sure, but I mean electrically?
[17:45:07] <jdh> I think mine were $30ish. I only use them for pport hardware dongles though.
[17:45:39] <jdh> for $21,000 I can get new versions of WonderWare(tm) that use software or USB keys instead.
[17:46:58] <CaptHindsight> well the card should be here to find out in about 10 days
[17:47:21] <pcw_home> jymmm will chip in...
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[17:47:56] <jdh> yeah, I'm sure.
[17:47:57] <Jymmm> ...with ethernet to IO standard
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[17:48:40] <jdh> the window maker for the current version I have won't run in Win7 anyway
[17:50:28] <CaptHindsight> http://www.amazon.com/Parallel-Printer-Express-Adapter-Converter/dp/B00BAO55QY $11.98
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[17:50:58] <CaptHindsight> ships from China as well
[17:51:13] <pcw_home> its worth $2.00 (well more) not to have to deal with ebay
[17:51:51] <jdh> dunno about that, I can buy stuff from ebay in just a few clicks and not have to type in anything
[17:52:01] <CaptHindsight> six of one half dozen of the other.... I have more issues with Amamzon :)
[17:52:17] <Jymmm> http://paste.ubuntu.com/7502379/
[17:52:22] <pcw_home> kind of like Frys Its worth at least $50.00 not to have to go there
[17:52:34] <CaptHindsight> I agree
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[17:53:22] <jdh> I've never been to a Frys. I always assumed it would be cool. Not so?
[17:53:48] <Jymmm> It is, you just have to know the rules =)
[17:54:23] <pcw_home> I have the same reaction to IKEA they treat people like cattle
[17:54:23] <Jymmm> unwritten rules that is =)
[17:54:37] <pcw_home> no thanks
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[17:55:31] <pcw_home> But I'm old and crotchety
[17:55:36] <archivist> ikea has short cuts through the store for the intelligent cattle
[17:55:48] <jdh> I've only seen one Ikea
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[17:56:09] <CaptHindsight> http://wch.cn/products.php?page=procontent&id=100
[17:56:49] <archivist> I have about 20 ikea bookshelves
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[17:57:53] <CaptHindsight> last time at IKEA they wouldn't sell me their industrial shelving
[17:58:32] <CaptHindsight> same for Home Depot, Menards and Loews
[17:59:01] <Jymmm> My entire ikea collection... http://www.ikea.com/us/en/catalog/products/20169658/ which you can mount to your mill or drill press and great shopping bags since stores in the area dont legally offer them anymore for free http://www.ikea.com/us/en/catalog/products/17228340/
[17:59:13] <archivist> you are not supposed to buy parts of the store only the stock
[17:59:27] <CaptHindsight> now you tell me :)
[18:00:41] <Jymmm> pcw_home: you have grocery bag restrcitions in your area?
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[18:01:27] <pcw_home> Not yet
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[18:01:59] <Jymmm> pcw_home: Ah, SJ, Campbell do now
[18:03:37] <Jymmm> pcw_home: those 60¢ bags are awesome, bought them off amazon as I didn't want to be cattle =)
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[18:06:55] <pcw_home> we use re-usable bags anyway and have a good assortment
[18:07:23] <Jymmm> pcw_home: Yeah, I just got tired of having 50 of them is the problem.
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[18:08:17] <CaptHindsight> in China they started charging 2-3 cents for plastic bags
[18:08:28] <CaptHindsight> that wouldn't work here
[18:09:03] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: New law here, no free bags, if you want a paper bag it's 10¢ each or bring your own
[18:09:32] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: It started as they were clogging the storm drains.
[18:09:48] <CaptHindsight> so similar only 10¢ vs 2-3¢
[18:10:02] <CaptHindsight> they were clogging everything there :)
[18:10:25] <Jymmm> http://plasticbaglaws.org/city-of-san-jose-releases-bring-your-own-bag-ordinance-implementation-results/
[18:10:34] <CaptHindsight> were you getting bag trees?
[18:10:52] <Jymmm> lol, no.
[18:11:10] <Jymmm> Or I guess so if you look at the pic on that link
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[18:11:33] <CaptHindsight> http://www.islandbreath.org/2009Year/2009-09/090923plasticbags.jpg
[18:11:45] <Jymmm> ouch
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[18:13:18] <CaptHindsight> PC with touchscreen and stepper driver all in one is all I need for simple machines
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[18:13:39] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: sounds scary
[18:13:41] <CaptHindsight> all-in-one box
[18:15:28] <Jymmm> A DVM can't measure a PWM for peak voltage, can it?
[18:15:38] <CaptHindsight> for a few hundred $$, not $1-2k from the usual industrial vendors
[18:15:49] <tjtr33> only freally slow pwm
[18:15:59] <Jymmm> tjtr33: thanks,
[18:16:10] <CaptHindsight> yeah, it will be an average-ish reading
[18:16:22] <jdh> cheap scope
[18:17:02] <Jymmm> I might just hit Fry's Rental dept and grab a scope.
[18:17:15] <CaptHindsight> I just got 2 500mhz 2 channel digital TEK scopes for under $150 ea with shipping
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[18:17:41] <CaptHindsight> they just needed the self calibration performed and one need a foot + line code
[18:17:42] <tjtr33> wanna sell one?
[18:17:47] <CaptHindsight> code/cord
[18:18:07] <CaptHindsight> I'll look for more
[18:18:53] <tjtr33> i know the calibration routine. the probes are pricy tho, that pin that auto knows 10x
[18:19:05] <mozmck> CaptHindsight: what is the samples/second?
[18:19:43] <CaptHindsight> 2ghz or 2.5ghz
[18:19:59] <mozmck> Not too bad.
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[18:20:44] <mozmck> Are these the newer small form factor?
[18:20:59] <CaptHindsight> people buy them, run the self calibration and turn them around for 3-4x what they bought them for
[18:21:14] <mozmck> where do they get them?
[18:21:37] <CaptHindsight> auctions and fleabay
[18:22:25] <mozmck> ok. I bought an HP 300 mhz with 1 GSa/s a few years back for 300.
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[18:22:31] <CaptHindsight> from vendors that don't specialize in instruments, vendors that have appliances and surplus, they don't know or care about reading the docs
[18:22:38] <mozmck> was the best deal I could find at the time.
[18:22:56] <CaptHindsight> they go fast on ebay
[18:23:14] <mozmck> Came with new 500mhz probes too.
[18:23:30] <CaptHindsight> the older ones had leaky caps
[18:23:56] <CaptHindsight> once leaked it would eat up the traces and insulation/coating on the pcb
[18:24:01] <mozmck> I've heard that about Tek, but not HP? mine is about 1996
[18:24:11] <CaptHindsight> hard to re-calibrate after that
[18:24:39] <mozmck> I put a new battery on the main board and everything looked really good.
[18:24:42] <CaptHindsight> if they have't leaked you can swap caps for <$30
[18:25:12] <mozmck> Not so far. I guess just all the electrolytic caps?
[18:26:58] <CaptHindsight> yes
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[18:27:19] <CaptHindsight> the peak worst was ~10 years ago
[18:28:27] <archivist> early 1970's in tube equipment caps would leak and make a good mess
[18:28:37] <tjtr33> just spent morning replacing caps, hurco ps should be good to go now
[18:28:43] <CaptHindsight> there was a water based formula for electrolytics that someone stared selling that didn't have all the secret sauce to make it last
[18:29:13] <CaptHindsight> but it was cheaper and it didn't produce defects for months to years
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[18:32:52] <archivist> high value resistors fail open, certain polyester caps from the late 1950-1960s fail short, the plastic on some ics taking in water and corroding the internal connections
[18:33:29] <DaViruz> tantalum caps like to fail short as well
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[18:34:29] <archivist> yup had many go in amplifiers
[18:36:49] <CaptHindsight> we have lots of simple applications for automation where I'd prefer Linuxcnc or HAL vs a >$1K PLC with touchpanel
[18:37:25] <jdh> we put PC's everywhere. I would generally prefer a plc+hmi if possible
[18:37:34] <CaptHindsight> 1 or 2 axis systems that just move something from one place to another at given intervals
[18:38:21] <CaptHindsight> PLC+HMI if they weren't so pricey
[18:38:43] <jdh> one time cost
[18:38:52] <jdh> vs. pc hell forever
[18:41:41] <CaptHindsight> I have Linuxcnc boxes that are 8 years old without issue
[18:42:42] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: Where was that bag tree from?
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[19:11:56] <PetefromTn> damn just lost my internet ...
[19:12:12] <PetefromTn> I got a little issue guys.
[19:12:40] <PetefromTn> I just had that big blowout on the machine and had to replace a bunch of stuff.
[19:13:00] <PetefromTn> now the machine is working good again and I am trying to make some parts.
[19:13:28] <PetefromTn> however when I went to touch off some new tools they come up with metric numbers.
[19:13:41] <PetefromTn> all the rest of my tools are in inches.
[19:14:24] <PetefromTn> I tried clicking show in inches and metric and back again but the tool table entries enter in metric.
[19:14:40] <PetefromTn> how do you switch that?
[19:15:31] <PetefromTn> DRO's are all inch right now.
[19:16:20] <jdh> m20/m21?
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[19:17:06] <jdh> err... g20/g21
[19:18:15] <PetefromTn> hang on lemme try that.
[19:19:10] <PetefromTn> nope still metric.
[19:19:33] <malcom2073> My adapter cables came! Machinekit here I come :-D
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[19:21:00] <PetefromTn_> Okay internet is back on
[19:21:01] <jdh> did you change your .ini?
[19:21:10] <PetefromTn_> I did not change anything...
[19:21:21] <PetefromTn_> I only changed the boards in back of the machine.
[19:21:30] <PetefromTn_> Everything else seems to be working perfectly
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[19:22:06] <_methods> machine still has params you need to set?
[19:22:16] <PetefromTn_> My DRO's all show inch numbers
[19:22:20] <_methods> wild
[19:22:38] <PetefromTn_> the tool table shows the saved tools I had before the problem and they are in inch.
[19:22:51] <PetefromTn_> Loading new tools the numbers are metric.
[19:23:04] <_methods> in the actual machine, right?
[19:23:12] <_methods> machines tool table not linuxcnc
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[19:23:30] <PetefromTn_> LinuxCNC IS the machines tool table.
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[19:24:51] <_methods> so what board did you replace?
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[19:25:17] <PetefromTn_> 24 volt power supply and the 7i77 mesanet card.
[19:25:21] <PetefromTn_> and some relays.
[19:26:14] <_methods> ah sorry i thought you replaced a board that was on the machine
[19:26:30] <PetefromTn_> there are no more boards on this machine everything back there is brand new.
[19:26:45] <PetefromTn_> This is an linuxCNC issue.
[19:27:00] <PetefromTn_> Just never seen where the numbers loaded were metric.
[19:27:05] <_methods> any dips on the 7i77?
[19:27:16] <PetefromTn_> Would not be a problem if ALL the numbers were metric in the tool table but they are not.
[19:27:25] <PetefromTn_> checked and matched the dips to the old board.
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[19:29:21] <_methods> you try makin a new machine from scratch just to see if you have the same issue?
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[19:30:06] <_methods> probably not a very helpful suggestion
[19:30:31] <PetefromTn_> LOL hell no man.
[19:30:41] <PetefromTn_> machine is working great again.
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[19:30:51] <PetefromTn_> MPG, spindle, coolant, everything works.
[19:30:56] <PetefromTn_> homing limits
[19:31:11] <CaptHindsight> pcw_home: http://www.parallella.org/board/ did you ever get to play with it? get Linuxcnc on it?
[19:31:16] <PetefromTn_> it is all good just dunno why my tool table entries are doing this metric switch.
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[19:34:57] <PetefromTn_> any ideas guys?
[19:36:55] <_methods> you try setting inch units in tool.tbl with a text editor and see if they stay inch?
[19:38:54] <PetefromTn_> you mean just open the table in gedit and change or is there a setting for the tool table in the config?
[19:39:00] <_methods> yeah
[19:39:04] <_methods> just use gedit
[19:39:09] <_methods> then reload table
[19:39:23] <_methods> i have no idea just a thought
[19:40:26] <MrHindsight> http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Industrial-grade-touch-screen-embedded-15-inch-LED-all-in-one-computer-6-COM-LPT-Tablet/1446714753.html Bingo
[19:42:18] <PetefromTn_> I guess I can try it but I have retried touching off several times now and deleting the generated numbers and switching show inch and show metric etc.
[19:42:22] <PetefromTn_> No luck so far.
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[19:43:38] <PCW> CaptHindsight: is the parallela actually available? last time i looked they had production issues and were not taking orders
[19:46:34] <MrHindsight> PCW: taking new orders but currently out of stock
[19:49:37] <MrHindsight> sorry register to find out about updates to order :/
[19:49:51] <PCW> its interesting and should make a nice linuxcnc platform (though only 24 FPGA I/O bits or so) so about $250 for more I/O and actual connecotrs
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[19:52:42] <PCW> The parallela potentially allows making a very high performance headless linuxcnc platform (very high CPU/FPGA bandwidth, good FP)
[19:53:35] <PCW> capable of 20 KHz servo threads or better
[19:55:45] <Jymmm> whats teh easest way to ghetto together a function generator?
[19:55:57] <PCW> ebay
[19:56:14] <Jymmm> PCW: MORE ghetto
[19:56:20] <bertrik> there's this chip that does all basic waves, XR-something IIRC
[19:56:30] <MrHindsight> maybe parallella with A20 daughter card
[19:57:07] <MrHindsight> but its all vapor right now
[19:57:25] thomasli_ is now known as thomaslindstr_m_
[19:58:01] <PCW> I suspect they are using the cheapest zynq so 666 MHz dual core
[19:58:10] <bertrik> Jymmm: I was thinking of XR2206 probably
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[19:59:20] * Jymmm grabs the laser and heads to richmond!
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[20:08:41] <Jymmm> Heym how they do that?! Looked like a clean sinewave https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YaI6LT233kA
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[20:11:35] <demimsy> is there any way to prevent a subroutine from running when another one is already being issued?
[20:12:24] <demimsy> really i would like to wait for the first subroutine to finish then execute the second; however, the second seems to stop the other subroutine
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[20:33:58] <MrHindsight> 23" cap touch monitors are under $200 now
[20:34:32] <Jymmm> as they fall off the truck?
[20:34:58] <NickParker|2> Can I use these to drive 5v optos from my 6i25? https://www.sparkfun.com/products/12009
[20:35:07] <NickParker|2> Drive the high side of them that is, low sides are tied together.
[20:36:00] <NickParker|2> er, may have answered my own question. http://dlnmh9ip6v2uc.cloudfront.net/datasheets/BreakoutBoards/Logic_Level_Bidirectional.pdf Looks like the 5v side is just pulled up with a 10k, so it's probably not good for any sane amount of current.
[20:36:59] <MrHindsight> Nick001-shop: should work with optos check how much current drive the optos need for the 6i25
[20:37:25] <NickParker|2> They supposedly need 10mA
[20:37:35] <NickParker|2> but they've got a 10k and a diode built in protecting them
[20:37:41] <NickParker|2> er
[20:37:42] <NickParker|2> a 1k
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[20:38:38] <MrHindsight> http://www.adafruit.com/datasheets/BSS138.pdf
[20:39:48] <MrHindsight> but sparkfun soldered in 10k's
[20:40:40] <NickParker|2> Ok I'm silly, dad just suggested a way simpler solution: Just use some 7400 chips that do nothing.
[20:41:13] <NickParker|2> ie for each signal hook it into one side of an OR gate
[20:41:26] <NickParker|2> They can take 3.3v input and put out 5v
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[20:43:46] <PCW> probably easier to just use OPTOs with common anode at 5V
[20:44:12] <NickParker> PCW: The optos are built into my driver boards, which I'd really rather not modify in any way.
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[20:46:11] <PCW> the 6I25 (and all of our FPGA I/O cards) are designed for active low outputs
[20:46:13] <PCW> so be aware tha active high devices may turn on at power up
[20:47:47] <NickParker> Yeah I caught that bit in the manual.
[20:48:04] <NickParker> My drivers have enable pins that I'm just hooking up to a physical switch.
[20:49:17] <NickParker> I'm gonna run to the local junk shop now for some parts. ty everyone
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[21:06:15] <Deejay> gn8
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[21:17:11] <tjtr33> ethercat for machinekit http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M1LxQBjttWg ( posted by Michael Haberler to machinekit mail list )
[21:17:19] <tjtr33> ^^^ real servos on BBB
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[21:22:47] <SpeedEvil> PRUs would seem a simpler option
[21:23:27] <PetefromTn_> Well just finished the first program that I ran since I blew up the machine and fixed it. Ran absolutely perfect. I just lived with the metric tool table entries until I can figure out why they are that way. It would be nice to get it fixed because I don't like having to figure out the conversion when I input tool comp adjustments LOL
[21:28:10] <MrHindsight> looks like nobody is going to beat me to ARM + FPGA with HD HDMI, IO, USB + ethernet
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[21:49:07] <Jymmm> MrHindsight: Since you seem to have looked intensively at the laser controller pcb, What would you guess the amplitude and max freq would be for the PWM signal going to the laser?
[21:49:40] <Jymmm> I cna't power a laser power meter because ppl wouldn't return them. bastards.
[21:49:42] <Jymmm> But...
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[21:50:47] <Jymmm> What I thught was use my killawatt meter and fir the laser from the controller and manually (function generator or pure voltage source) and compare the amperage drawn
[21:51:22] <Jymmm> IF thet are relativelt the same, then the tube is fubar.
[21:51:50] <Jymmm> If not, then the control signal is fubar
[21:51:57] <Jymmm> sound reasonable?
[21:52:47] <CaptHindsight> http://oi61.tinypic.com/153lhtc.jpg laser board
[21:53:33] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: Yes, thats the pic I posted yesterday
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[21:54:08] <CaptHindsight> everything looks like logic level except may that upper right area, didn't examine that closely
[21:54:29] <Jymmm> ttl, as in 3.3v?
[21:54:42] <CaptHindsight> yeah
[21:54:53] <Jymmm> Couldn't be 5v or 12v ?
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[21:56:00] <CaptHindsight> the A/D operates from +5 to +15 or dual supplies
[21:56:26] <CaptHindsight> http://www.analog.com/static/imported-files/data_sheets/AD7228.pdf
[21:58:00] <CaptHindsight> the microcontrollers are 5V
[21:59:51] <CaptHindsight> the FIFO is 5V
[22:00:13] <CaptHindsight> https://www.idt.com/document/dst/720072017202-datasheet
[22:00:46] <Jymmm> I'm just not sure what the laser requires to fire at full power.
[22:01:11] <eneuro> Hello linuxcnc-dev ;) Just made working copy "$ git clone git://git.linuxcnc.org/git/linuxcnc.git linuxcnc-dev" and reading README file but can NOT find any ./configure script in linuxcnc-dev/src to compile linuxcnc with simulation enabled? I do not like to destroy this fresh working copy :D
[22:02:01] <CaptHindsight> http://www.xilinx.com/support/documentation/data_sheets/5200.pdf the FPGS IO's were 3v/5V compatible
[22:02:10] <CaptHindsight> FPGA's
[22:03:14] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: I guess I reallyy can't cinfirm anythign without a scope?
[22:03:19] <Jymmm> confirm*
[22:04:42] <CaptHindsight> http://cdn.liliputing.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/a80-optimus-board-680x596.jpg hardly any GPIO
[22:05:16] <CaptHindsight> Jymmm: yeah, all you can do is measure power supply levels or static signals
[22:05:41] <CaptHindsight> <--- walking out the door BBL
[22:05:50] <Jymmm> Bu Bye!
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[22:29:42] <Jymmm> Can you take a scope directly to the output of a L298N by chance?
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[22:51:45] <eneuro> Who knows if I compile LinuxCNC with "$ ./configure --enable-simulator" hal will be usable? I have starnge message: "It seems that ./configure completed successfully. However, the configuration is for a simulator only, no RT capabilities will be used. In this mode no control of hardware is possible. Drivers won't be built." ????
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[23:30:08] <tjtr33> Jymmm, you could try a sample & hold with a peak detector if thats easier than scrounging a scope http://tinyurl.com/ofq6wed
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[23:57:36] <Tom_itx> any suggestions getting networking back up on 10.04?
[23:57:54] <Tom_itx> last shutdown things were find but now i can't figure out how to get it connected