#linuxcnc | Logs for 2014-05-10

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[00:15:17] <_methods> the new one i think was mad for closer up
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[01:47:07] <tjtr33> kinect for measuring? lookat http://www.faro.com/scenect/
[01:47:42] <XXCoder> interesting
[01:47:46] <XXCoder> too bad dont have one
[01:51:31] <tjtr33> i dont find the words resolution nor precision in the manuals
[01:51:36] <andypugh> zeeshan|2: Still there?
[01:52:00] <tjtr33> i bought a refurb from tigerdirect for 40$ about a year ago
[01:52:06] <andypugh> The first PID controllers I ever tuned were Schenck servo-hydraulic machines
[01:54:18] <tjtr33> used it for some animation http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gY2dC9fi02s
[01:54:58] <tjtr33> all old edms used hydraulics and moog/pegasus valves for the servos
[01:55:53] <tjtr33> no interpolation, any scale was just a limit where to stop
[01:56:54] <XXCoder> is there method to use kinect to 3d scan but with compouter not xbox?
[01:58:33] <tjtr33> XXCoder, yes ^^^ read the descrption or manual from Faro. no xbox here at all
[01:58:40] <XXCoder> oh'
[01:58:53] <XXCoder> saw it say "app" thought it was some xbox app
[01:59:31] <tjtr33> Faro is a mfctr of measuring 'arms', Stuart has one in WIchita ( big machines running linuxcnc there )
[02:00:33] <andypugh> I used it on fatigue testing machines. All very impressive, 200 tons, 10 um precision at 50hz sine-wave motion over about 0.5mm
[02:01:06] <tjtr33> Romer is another but sues hires angular devices in arm joints ( not sure if pots or resolvers )
[02:01:14] <tjtr33> sues/uses
[02:01:43] <malcom2073> Is it possible via gcode or some configuration, have the A axis move in teleop rather than coordinated, even while it's in the same G1 line as XYZ commands?
[02:01:47] <andypugh> Seeing Faro playig with Kinect, for free has made my whole day better :-)
[02:02:52] <tjtr33> andypugh, you had position feedback? resolver or inductiosyn or the thing Skunkworks had? (linear inductosyn)
[02:03:30] <andypugh> Faro arms are brilliant, but expensive. I had to map out a whole Transit van with a 1m reach Faro arm once. It worked, which is a great plus for Faro (you can step round things with the system). Bit it took a week. I got paid.
[02:03:51] <andypugh> tjtr33: The Schenck system?
[02:03:56] <tjtr33> yes
[02:04:19] <tjtr33> no , (dunno) the fatigue tester
[02:04:28] <andypugh> That had load cells in the load path (it was a tensile testing machine) and LVDTS in the cylinder.
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[02:05:27] <andypugh> LVDTS are functionally equivalent to to resolvers. Both have infinite resolution if you have time to measure in.
[02:05:37] <tjtr33> lvdts = linear inductosyns to my simple mind :)
[02:05:45] <tjtr33> again, expensive
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[02:06:15] <malcom2073> Main thing: Iwant the A axis to be able to accelerate at its own rate, with only the constraint that it starts and stops motion (arrives at the end of the G1) at the same time as the other axis, per the feed rate. Is this possible?
[02:06:22] <andypugh> At the stroke that machine had, they were. But short-stroke LVDTs are moderately affordable.
[02:06:56] <andypugh> malcom2073: On the contrary, doing anything else is really hard :-)
[02:08:10] <malcom2073> I thought coordinated motion would ensure the feed rates was right, so if one axis had a much higher maximum acceleration, it would not read that acceleration because the other axis's wouldn't be able to keep up
[02:08:15] <andypugh> What you describe is default behaviour. (I think). All G1 moves compete at the same time, and the faster axes slwo down to stay in synch with the slower ones.
[02:08:26] <tjtr33> with independant acceleration? not constrained by other axis in a coordinated move?
[02:08:27] <malcom2073> I'm talking acceleration though, not velocity
[02:08:50] <malcom2073> faster acceleration would mean a slower velocity on the path
[02:08:56] <malcom2073> so they wouldstill arrive at the same time
[02:09:25] <malcom2073> Bah, I suppose that would affect the combined head feed rate
[02:09:45] <andypugh> All axes meet the end-point at the same time. That’s fundamental.
[02:10:07] <malcom2073> andypugh: Right, but they also stay in sync along the way. (matching accelerations so the head follows the proper path)
[02:11:40] <andypugh> In fact, if you want to make controlled feed-rate moves involving rotary axes you basically have to use inverse time mode. G code does not know where the rotation axes are, so can not convert rotary moves to cutting speeds at the cutter.
[02:12:22] <andypugh> Yes, feed rate is sacrificed to achieve path control.
[02:12:28] <malcom2073> So what does it so when you're not using inverse time mode? It's moving, so it's doing something.
[02:12:56] <malcom2073> Right! I want to decouple the A from the pathing system, and just have it depart and arrive at the same time, accelerating/decelerating at its maximum
[02:13:27] <andypugh> It moves at XYZ mm/sec and moves the rotaries to keep up, if it can
[02:14:29] <malcom2073> stepconf had me enter steps per degree, how does it correlate that to mm/sec?
[02:15:19] <XXCoder> steps per degree?
[02:15:22] <andypugh> So, if you had a super fast A axis and did a G0 X0 A0 // G1 F20 X 20 A 1000000 then it would move to X20 in one minute, with the A axis doing 1000000 degrees if motion, so the actual feed rate would be immense.
[02:15:28] <XXCoder> isnt that how many steps per complete rotate
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[02:16:27] <malcom2073> andypugh: So it reads A in degrees, and jsut attempts to reach it in the same time it reaches XYZ per the feed rate set? It's not using the maximum acceleration for A though
[02:16:37] <andypugh> You can choose to scale the rotaries any way you like. revs, degrees, gradians, radians…
[02:16:40] <Tom_itx> mm/sec is a function of the diameter being machined the degrees remain the same
[02:16:48] <malcom2073> XXCoder: No, steps per revolution == 360 * steps per degree
[02:17:04] <XXCoder> ah
[02:17:34] <Tom_itx> more like surface speed on a lathe
[02:17:36] <malcom2073> Tom_itx: Right, so LinuxCNC would rely on the gcode parser to know that, and set the appropriate feed rate in degrees. Make sense
[02:17:40] <malcom2073> sorry
[02:17:41] <andypugh> malcom2073: Not even necessarily degrees. It basically becomes your-number / scale steps
[02:17:42] <malcom2073> the gcode generator
[02:18:22] <malcom2073> By that though, you would assume that the A axis would attempt to accelerate at its maximum, and feed properly to end at the same time, but it's not. It's limiting itself in acceleration to match XYZ as best as I can tell
[02:18:39] <andypugh> You can set up your rotary to work in full-turns. And spindles normally do
[02:19:20] <andypugh> Normally XYZ limit themselves to follow A, but that is machine-dependent.
[02:19:53] <malcom2073> This is a 3d printer, A is capable of way higher accelerations than XYZ
[02:20:16] <andypugh> But yes, they all limit each other to follow the path and arrive at the programmed end-point at the same time.
[02:20:29] <malcom2073> Yes, they limit velocity, I'm concerned with acceleration
[02:20:33] <andypugh> Ah, your A isn’t an axis at all, is it?
[02:21:21] <malcom2073> No, for the moment I've been treating it as a rotary, but I've tried linear as well to no avail, I still can't get itto act independant and reach maximum acceleration
[02:21:28] <andypugh> Using A as the extruder is wrong, misguided, and you deserve the trouble it causes :-)
[02:23:09] <malcom2073> And this is why I don't mention it's a 3d printer :) Anti-3d printer sentemant aside, as far as I can tell, the last thing causing issues is the fact that the A acceleration is tied to XYZ. Is it possible in linuxcnc to have an axis move independantly (ignore the path), but still arrive at the same time as other axis?
[02:23:15] <andypugh> Extruder feed rate is a better fit for “S” than “A” though really it is neither
[02:23:48] <XXCoder> whats 'S' axis?
[02:24:09] * malcom2073 is googling to try and figure that out now :P
[02:24:25] <andypugh> I am not at all anti-printer. But I am anti- using A (a coordinated axis) as the extruder control. It’s conceptually a bad fit
[02:24:42] <andypugh> S is spindle speed
[02:24:58] <XXCoder> ahh
[02:25:05] <XXCoder> so that does not link with xyz
[02:25:17] <andypugh> Indeed not
[02:25:43] <malcom2073> It has to be coordinated with XYZ at the end of each G1 in that it must arrive at the same time, but how it gets there is independant of XYZ.
[02:26:23] <malcom2073> I can accept if that's not actually possible, but I don't know at the moment :)
[02:28:41] <pcw_home> seems like spindle or M67 is a closer match to what you want
[02:28:56] <andypugh> It is entirely possible, gird your loins and read: https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/machinekit/HaBUZZyrsyE
[02:30:00] <andypugh> It’s all bundled together in Google Groups so I can’t give a more specific link. But if you read that thread it gets more relevant later.
[02:30:08] <malcom2073> andypugh: I'll read through that
[02:30:15] <malcom2073> pcw_home: extruder is position based, not velocity based
[02:30:24] <malcom2073> pcw_home: If that's possible with the spindle, then that may work
[02:31:33] <andypugh> There may be more in there too, the last message with a different thread title says “The result is looking pretty good because the motion is blended perfectly around multi segment curves (only 3 axis now). Every acceleration messes with the plastic so having a constant motion gives very good results.”
[02:32:06] <pcw_home> or just calculate extruder velocity from motion
[02:32:47] <andypugh> Here is a video of a system that links extrusion to actual nozzle speed: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5QQ60GItiY0&feature=youtu.be
[02:33:07] <malcom2073> andypugh: yeah I saw that
[02:33:47] <pcw_home> isnt there a hypotenuse comp?
[02:33:48] <malcom2073> andypugh: the slicer already does that though, and fairly well, I just don't think linuxcnc has provisions for controlling it in the same way that the reprap firmware does, since there's no machining equivalant
[02:34:12] <pcw_home> thats what hal is for...
[02:34:30] <andypugh> I don’t understand the technicalities, I just helped him with the HAL to make it happen.
[02:35:04] <andypugh> I haven’t wanted a 3D printer yet.
[02:35:08] <malcom2073> Yeah digging into the hal is a multi-month project that I've not yet decided if I want to embark on :)
[02:35:50] <Jymmm> andypugh: I want one sorta... I want to put powdered sugar in my laser and fuse it into a 3D shape =)
[02:36:00] <malcom2073> lol
[02:36:10] <andypugh> HAL is the sort of hammer that makes every problem look like a nail. Home central heating? HAL.. oven timer? HAL….
[02:36:23] <malcom2073> haha
[02:37:17] <XXCoder> Jymmm: already done
[02:37:24] <XXCoder> well not with lasers but..
[02:37:29] <andypugh> Lots of single-operation machines make more sense as a HAL + GUI setup with no G-code anywhere.
[02:37:42] <XXCoder> http://the-sugar-lab.com/
[02:37:56] <pcw_home> so xvel yvel --> hypot --> scale --> extruder stepgen velocity
[02:38:00] <malcom2073> I'll talk to that guy on the google groups that did the velocity based extrusion, maybe that would work for me even though I'm not using machinekit
[02:38:06] <malcom2073> see if he has his setup posted somewhere
[02:38:13] <XXCoder> first one http://candyfab.org/
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[02:38:32] <andypugh> At the moment machinekit is functionally identical to LinuxCNC.
[02:38:44] <malcom2073> That's good
[02:39:19] <Jymmm> XXCoder: I dont' care what someone ELSE has done, I said *I* want to do it =)
[02:39:28] <XXCoder> lol ok
[02:39:44] <XXCoder> laser might be better if its still candy when its done
[02:39:53] <andypugh> They will probably diverge, but at the moment the differences are platform and realtime system differences. Once you have it running, both look the same.
[02:40:22] <Jymmm> I can send jobs to the laser via the paraport, but to control the Z axis, it's via the serial port is the only option, and I'm not sure exactly how to do that.
[02:40:24] <andypugh> The over-riding advantage of using lasers is that lasers are cool.
[02:40:24] <malcom2073> andypugh: I'm eventually moving to machinekit, as I have a BBB + a cape on the way heh
[02:40:29] <tjtr33> machinekit has servo control? i thought it was stepper only, and no way to use Mesa cards
[02:40:31] <malcom2073> but for now, I'm on linuxcncc
[02:41:41] <pcw_home> pretty sure machinekit can do everything linuxcnc can
[02:41:49] <andypugh> I don’t actually see a reason to prefer BBB over a PC motherboard, if you have one. No PCI on BBB, for a start, so no Mesa cards.
[02:42:06] <malcom2073> PRU, no mesa required.
[02:42:16] <andypugh> Machinekit runs on PCs too.
[02:42:35] <andypugh> Mesa boards do a _lot_ more than the PRU
[02:42:55] <malcom2073> True, but for most applications the PRU is more than enough
[02:42:56] <malcom2073> sorry
[02:43:00] <malcom2073> for some applications
[02:43:02] <malcom2073> not most
[02:43:07] <andypugh> Show me the PRU Resolver interface :-)
[02:43:13] <malcom2073> I said some :P
[02:43:18] <malcom2073> I haven't a clue what a resolver is
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[02:43:57] <pcw_home> its all possible with FPGA or processor (PRU) but sometime parallel hardware is a better solution
[02:44:05] <andypugh> pcw_home: Somebody emailed me today asking me to sell him something to interface his resovers to a KFlop.
[02:44:17] <skunkworks_> jeeze
[02:44:28] <andypugh> I was unable to help on _so_ many levels
[02:44:42] <skunkworks_> actually - jon elson probably has what the guy needs...
[02:44:46] <pcw_home> Jons boards would work
[02:45:17] <skunkworks_> they are just generic resolver -> quadrature converters
[02:45:27] <andypugh> Yeah, but i don’t see a reason to use the Kflop
[02:45:40] <pcw_home> I still have to figure out the Fanuc type II pulsecoder protocol
[02:46:45] <andypugh> I suggested he could have a 5i23 + 7i49 for <$500 and spend the extra on beer.
[02:47:00] <Jymmm> pcw_home: 110111011101, =)
[02:47:01] <zeeshan|2> andypugh: hi
[02:47:05] <zeeshan|2> do you have a video or something
[02:47:12] <zeeshan|2> that shows how a hydraulic servomechanism works
[02:47:17] <zeeshan|2> youtube doesnt have any :]
[02:47:36] <pcw_home> Moog must have some docos
[02:47:47] <skunkworks_> andypugh: but it doesn't work with mach... some can't see past that.
[02:48:16] <Jymmm> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fktu3qdLUiQ
[02:48:24] <andypugh> It was so long ago that I thought I was cutting-edge when I borrowed http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_QuickTake
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[02:49:19] <tjtr33> TI paper on hyd-servo control http://www.ti.com/lit/an/spraa76/spraa76.pdf
[02:49:33] <andypugh> But, the cylinder is ballanced and hydrostatic. This means that there is a rod through both ends so that the internal total volume is constant.
[02:49:52] <zeeshan|2> tjtr33: i appreciate the paper
[02:49:56] <zeeshan|2> but i really wanna see an animation
[02:50:34] <zeeshan|2> from what you guys have told me
[02:50:35] <zeeshan|2> and internet
[02:50:45] <zeeshan|2> just looks like fluid comes in from either 2 ports
[02:50:53] <zeeshan|2> one moves piston right, other moves it left
[02:50:59] <zeeshan|2> and you have some fancy valve that switches
[02:51:02] <zeeshan|2> to hold the position
[02:51:04] <andypugh> There are no seals. The cylinder leaks at both ends into a negative pressure purge space that scavenges the oil that leaks. That isn’t a requirement, it just makes the cylinder easier and more responsive.
[02:51:39] <andypugh> The system works by altering the pressure balance between the two sides of the piston.
[02:52:07] <zeeshan|2> what kind of response time does the valve that alters the pressure balance have
[02:52:09] <zeeshan|2> typically
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[02:52:44] <tjtr33> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kq0SqJ-aT7c
[02:52:45] <andypugh> The feedback can be force or displacement, in fact the only hard part of using the system was doing bumpless-transfer between control modes.
[02:53:09] <andypugh> Moog valves sing. So kHz
[02:54:31] <andypugh> We would quite often run under displacement control of a tiny sensor clipped to the specimen, to eliminate the stretch in the grips and machine frame.
[02:55:48] <zeeshan|2> tjtr33: exactly like pneumatic control
[02:55:49] <zeeshan|2> !
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[02:56:19] <zeeshan|2> w/ double acting cylinder
[02:56:25] <pcw_home> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-aiwY3gvOlg
[02:56:27] <pcw_home> some in action...
[02:56:51] <zeeshan|2> thank you btw
[02:57:05] <zeeshan|2> so the spool valve is replaced by the moog valve
[02:57:06] <andypugh> We would run sinusoidal paths under full control (1mm amplitude, 10um f-error) at 50 or 100Hz. The Moog vavles have a lot of bandwidth.
[02:57:38] <andypugh> I think that the Moog valve is more proportional than a spool valve.
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[02:58:25] <andypugh> Anyway, sleep-time
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[02:58:42] <tjtr33> gnite andy
[02:58:59] <zeeshan|2> thank u
[02:59:06] <zeeshan|2> pcw_home: impressive
[02:59:31] <tjtr33> zeeshan|2, a moog is a brand of spool valve, also pegasus are common.
[03:00:13] <zeeshan|2> 100 hz = 0.01 s
[03:00:21] <zeeshan|2> so 10 ms response time
[03:00:25] <zeeshan|2> pretty quick
[03:00:30] <tjtr33> pcw_home, can you spot any feedback in that stewart platform, i see the valves
[03:01:02] <pcw_home> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5jspoB6_YuI
[03:01:04] <pcw_home> a servo valve
[03:01:38] <pcw_home> Not sure but Moog actuators often have LVDTs
[03:02:26] <tjtr33> the last vid post has lvdts, thx
[03:03:24] <zeeshan|2> makes sense why theyre using servos on the presses
[03:03:34] <zeeshan|2> so we can load a specimen at different strain rates
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[03:06:03] <pcw_home> I suspect big dog is hydraulic also
[03:06:20] <zeeshan|2> big dog?
[03:06:21] <zeeshan|2> :]
[03:06:27] <tjtr33> http://www.moog.com/literature/ICD/Valves-Introduction.pdf
[03:06:48] <pcw_home> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xqMVg5ixhd0
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[03:10:01] <tjtr33> caveat: i see spool position sensed in some valves, but not the actual moved element.
[03:10:03] <tjtr33> this is same as old rotary encoder on motor vs linear encoder on element problem
[03:11:32] <tjtr33> ( both are indirect measures, neither are where the tool tip is in the stock ;)
[03:12:10] <zeeshan|2> very cool
[03:12:42] <pcw_home> On samco's machine they used that funny accupin scale
[03:13:23] <zeeshan|2> https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRDLku-H78IpM_sDTXnZrilFkUR-RpbmcYghLPabYuGjIDgo5fj
[03:13:25] <zeeshan|2> er
[03:13:28] <zeeshan|2> http://i01.i.aliimg.com/img/pb/205/450/408/408450205_777.jpg
[03:13:35] <zeeshan|2> is it true that these type of couplers have a lot of backlash
[03:13:37] <skunkworks_> but it wasn't hydraulic cylinders - hydraulic motors..
[03:13:38] <zeeshan|2> > 0.001
[03:14:17] <tjtr33> the accupin is very cool, i think we can make those diy with printed circuits
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[03:14:52] <skunkworks_> http://electronicsam.com/images/KandT/conversion/hyservo.JPG
[03:15:15] <pcw_home> Moog valve --> hyd motor?
[03:15:35] <skunkworks_> I don't remember if they are moog.. I think they where vickers..
[03:15:42] <skunkworks_> or maybe rebranded
[03:15:44] <skunkworks_> yes
[03:16:19] <skunkworks_> I think they had little buzzers in them to keep the valve from sticking
[03:16:31] <tjtr33> yes most 'dither'
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[03:17:28] <skunkworks_> I think the cincinati lathe had the dithering in the servo amp. something like a 200hz signal on the analog to the valve
[03:18:02] <pcw_home> Yeah like tapping the analog meter...
[03:19:35] <skunkworks_> right. figure that is halable...
[03:19:55] <pcw_home> zeeshan|2: I know the aluminum ones are fairly fragile...
[03:21:01] <tjtr33> haha tapping big ol simpson meters
[03:21:07] <skunkworks_> (might try to get the Cincinnati running on hydraulic servos...
[03:21:17] <zeeshan|2> pcw_home: damn it
[03:21:18] <zeeshan|2> ;[
[03:21:19] <skunkworks_> they are just so big...
[03:21:35] <zeeshan|2> what about solid couplers? :]
[03:21:59] <zeeshan|2> snapped stepper shafts? :]
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[03:30:58] <tjtr33> well the cou[plers you mentioned dont have a _lot_ of backlash , but there are stiffer ones w/o going solid. look at bellows and collet types ( Ruland & R+W are mfctrs)
[03:32:03] <tjtr33> the drawback to solid is that the 2 shafts have to be perfectly colinear ( to some degree of perfect, the error is just eating your bearings )
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[03:32:15] <zeeshan|2> yea
[03:33:24] <skunkworks_> make one? ;) http://electronicsam.com/images/KandT/conversion/yaxis/adaptfinal2.JPG
[03:34:27] <skunkworks_> made from a circle saw blade.. http://electronicsam.com/images/KandT/conversion/yaxis/flexplate.jpg
[03:34:48] <XXCoder> nice recycling
[03:35:30] <skunkworks_> heh - someone remade 99 red ballons..
[03:36:02] <skunkworks_> 'gold finger'
[03:36:34] <moorbo> skunkworks_: like
[03:36:37] <moorbo> 20 years ago
[03:37:04] <skunkworks_> really? huh.
[03:37:58] <skunkworks_> well - 2000
[03:38:20] <skunkworks_> never heard it
[03:38:37] <moorbo> skunkworks_: almost 20, heh
[03:38:51] <moorbo> I remember it on...crazy taxi for the dream cast
[03:39:03] <moorbo> I think anyways
[03:39:08] <moorbo> might have been a soncic gam
[03:39:09] <moorbo> e
[03:39:10] <moorbo> I forget
[03:43:28] <jp_mill> what would cause me not to be able to open up a file in axis? did i forget something basic in my ini?
[03:44:10] <FrankZappa> hey gents... sorry to interject. Wondered if anyone did any setups for tube bending they'd like to share.
[03:44:29] <XXCoder> hm
[03:44:30] <FrankZappa> I'm considering torches
[03:44:44] <zeeshan|2> madrel bent
[03:44:44] <XXCoder> I wonder if good cnc is accurate enough to MAKE circular saws
[03:44:45] <zeeshan|2> or crush bent
[03:44:54] <XXCoder> probably have to do two sides but..
[03:45:11] <zeeshan|2> *mandrel
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[04:35:44] <tjtr33> linuxcnc tube bender by acemi http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ghDhZxidomc
[04:36:02] <XXCoder> 20 minutes ago http://www.smbc-comics.com/index.php?id=3337#comic
[04:36:21] <tjtr33> i found 4 linuxcnc tube bender videos on youtube
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[04:52:03] <FrankZappa> cool, tjtr33
[04:52:12] <FrankZappa> I meant large structural tube
[04:52:24] <FrankZappa> 3 axis also
[04:53:00] <FrankZappa> 48" (1.2 m) radius or larger
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[05:57:32] <CaptHindsight> how do those machines work without a single duino board involved? :)
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[06:47:30] <Deejay> moin
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[07:19:58] <SpeedEvil> CaptHindsight: Impossible!
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[07:54:14] <miss0r> I just got my hands on an Arboga u2508 mill. is it worth my while?
[07:57:30] <archivist> good for general purpose manual work I suppose
[07:58:09] <miss0r> I was thinking of fitting it with stepper motors and do some CNC control
[07:59:00] <archivist> the column design would make difficulties there
[07:59:19] <miss0r> column design?
[07:59:38] <archivist> you have two separate Z movements
[07:59:45] <miss0r> indeed.
[08:00:16] <miss0r> I could just attach it to the one moving the spindle up and down. If more movement is nesessary I could just move the other one by hand and reset it from there
[08:00:17] <archivist> and you need to clamp the lower one before milling
[08:00:44] <miss0r> but quality wise you'd say it's a good machine?
[08:01:12] <archivist> looks ok as a manual :)
[08:02:54] <archivist> head rotation would be interesting to cnc
[08:03:00] <miss0r> sweet. I got it for free. I saw it yesterday standing outside a metal factory in the rain, all rusted up. So I asked them, and I took it home(And holy jesus it is heavy!) I spend 5 hours yesterday shining it up, now everything moves smoothly
[08:03:49] <archivist> that is the correct price :)
[08:04:11] <miss0r> indeed... I need to buy this part: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/ARBOGA-U2508-MILLING-MACHINE-SPINDLE-NUT-/201086530499?pt=UK_Home_Garden_PowerTools_SM&hash=item2ed1b0f3c3
[08:06:02] <archivist> or make that part
[08:06:18] <miss0r> Perhaps it is on there. Just that stuff is still rusted in place
[08:07:07] <archivist> you could revisit and ask if there was a tray of tooling left inside :)
[08:08:00] <miss0r> They didn't. I already asked them.
[08:08:19] <miss0r> The bit is on there. It is just still stuck
[08:08:55] <miss0r> I am going to need some part that goes inside that nut to actualy hold the tools
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[08:14:09] <Einar1> I have an Arboga pillar drill very similar to that mill. I can't imagine they throw such machines out and still people pay good money for Chinese crap!
[08:15:25] <miss0r> In Denmark, atleast, the metal processing factories are not realy 'on the internet' yet. They have no idea about reselling stuff like this, so it is a great way to find good hardware by contacting them
[08:17:30] <Einar1> Here in Norway a lot of it goes on finn.no. Some at reasonable prices, but some are real fishing trips!
[08:17:57] <Einar1> In Sweden try blocket.se
[08:18:21] <miss0r> In denmark we have guloggratis.dk & dba.dk
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[08:21:55] <Einar1> I found this: http://www.finn.no/finn/torget/annonse?finnkode=47234940&folderId=1213779 but I still have 2 cars in my workshop I need to get out of there to make space. ;-)
[08:22:24] <miss0r> what a beauty
[08:23:18] <Einar1> Not exactly a beauty, but look at all the tools tha come with it. That's where you'll normally spend money after the conversion is done.
[08:23:25] <miss0r> Tomorrow I will go my a friend of mine place of work, and build my new cnc mill on this: http://www.directindustry.com/prod/hermle/5-axis-cnc-vertical-milling-machines-16486-570386.html
[08:23:48] <miss0r> We already did all the parts in solid works
[08:24:17] <Einar1> Nice hobby machine ! :-) Where in Denmark?
[08:24:34] <miss0r> hehe. This is a place called GN
[08:25:07] <miss0r> They make hearing aids. he works with milling the plastic cast forms
[08:25:52] <Einar1> I'll be in Viborg at Mercantec next month.
[08:26:18] <miss0r> teaching?
[08:26:50] <Einar1> No. We're metalshapers from around the world meeting there.
[08:27:02] <miss0r> sweet :)
[08:27:23] <Einar1> http://www.metalmeet.com/
[08:27:53] <miss0r> Sounds like fun. can anyone pop their head in?
[08:29:21] <Einar1> Not really, but I've never seen anyone thrown out in the years I've been there. ;-) But you really should contact the organizer.
[08:29:31] <miss0r> indeed
[08:30:09] <miss0r> hmm... it is a 3hour drive.
[08:31:39] <Einar1> I think you may need to be logged in to see this? http://www.metalmeet.com/forum/showthread.php?t=11406
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[08:32:16] <miss0r> I can see it. I will consider showing up
[08:32:42] <miss0r> I have some family near viborg I should realy visit some more :)
[08:33:17] <Einar1> If you do show up, contact me. And ask Anders to be polite.
[08:33:27] <miss0r> indeed
[08:35:53] <Einar1> Have to go and get one of the cars down from the lift and into another garage. I need to get another in to get out the engine so I can swap it with the car that's now on the lift.
[08:36:13] <miss0r> I think I need to find a new home for my scantool drilling machine. (space issues). This arboga will need to take over than function
[08:36:43] <Einar1> You will never regret making space for the Arboga.
[08:36:48] <miss0r> meh. I know the feeling. I am restoring a 88" Landrover 2.25 petrol 1972
[08:37:05] <miss0r> I build a new frame from scratch
[08:38:12] <Einar1> Sounds like a real restoration! Starting from the bottom. OK, have to go ...
[08:38:19] <miss0r> have fubn
[08:38:23] <miss0r> -b
[08:39:05] <miss0r> should you be interrested: http://i820.photobucket.com/albums/zz122/Garfield87/IMG_1460.jpg
[08:39:21] <miss0r> i'm out
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[09:36:14] <MrSunshine> yeah! finaly a Z home/pos limit swtich installed
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[09:36:39] <MrSunshine> no more slamming into hard stop of Z messing up Z position, and no more probe move screaming about would exeed Z maximum travel!
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[10:06:51] <jthornton> yea
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[10:58:33] <SpeedEvil> Limits are important in life.
[10:59:38] * archivist hates limits
[11:02:10] <archivist> a way to ignore limits, use a crane... http://www.collection.archivist.info/searchv13.php?searchstr=statfold+milling
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[11:41:12] <Loetmichel> <- is just catching up with the fuel consumption list of my car. easy when you make a photo with the cellphone of every fuel bill beside the distance counter in the tachometer. just to transfer it into https://www.spritmonitor.de/de/detailansicht/442560.html is some tedious work if you have to catch up a year at least ;-) $me is a bit lazy sometimes ;-)
[11:42:20] <archivist> s/sometimes/always :)
[11:42:51] <Loetmichel> bah!
[11:42:59] <Loetmichel> btw: did you see the enclosure?
[11:43:46] <archivist> I saw your comment when I got back but failed to follow the link
[11:44:15] <archivist> I saw the make, repeat till fit
[11:44:23] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=14877
[11:45:16] <Loetmichel> worked out fine, just had to make the lid twiche because of the lapse to make it the same width as the bottom ;-)
[11:47:14] <Loetmichel> the seet bending by cutting a half sheet thickness slot at the desired bend wors great
[11:47:20] <Loetmichel> sheet
[11:49:17] <archivist> you are having too much fun at that job
[11:51:23] <Tom_itx> Loetmichel using an engraving bit?
[11:51:36] <Loetmichel> 2mm end mill
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[12:20:02] <Loetmichel> archivist: why? is it forbidden by law to have fun at the job?
[12:21:41] <archivist> you are easier to wind up that a clock :)
[12:21:45] <archivist> than
[12:23:30] <Loetmichel> wind up?
[12:23:58] <Loetmichel> is that "getting excited" or "getting upset"?
[12:25:43] <archivist> "taking the bait"
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[13:23:23] <Loetmichel> hrhr, my wife just bestowed a t-shirt on me: front writing: "the early bird..."below a line-art bird. Back writing: "...catches one if it isnt quiet!" below a unconcoius bird on its back ;-)
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[13:36:36] <Loetmichel> soo, up to date with the fuel bills... and still for 90km fuel in the tank.. the omega is drinking a bit much i think... https://www.spritmonitor.de/de/detailansicht/442560.html
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[13:42:57] <Einar2> Then you should buy this "krankenstuhl": http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smart_(automobile)
[13:49:41] * cpresser is complaining about the 5.5l/100k my car consumes
[13:49:46] <Jymmm> Ooooooooooooooo Interesting... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZAEhyY1_czM
[13:52:14] <Jymmm> HOLY CRAP BATMAN that stuff is pricy!!
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[13:55:35] <Loetmichel> Einar2: why should i buy an elephants rollerskate when i can drive a battleship?
[13:56:02] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: Becasue an elephant wearing roller skates would be cool!
[13:57:55] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: ...and TOTALLY AWESOME if she was a roller derby gal
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[16:10:19] <PetefromTn_> http://s177.photobucket.com/user/pirellip/media/IMG_20140130_170335.jpg.html DROOL....I think it moved LOL
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[16:13:30] <IchGuckLive> hi all B)
[16:13:46] <XXCoder> hey
[16:19:06] <XXCoder> IchGuckLive: hows ya
[16:19:37] <IchGuckLive> its raining outside and we got a big party in town :-(
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[16:20:28] <XXCoder> oh aw
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[16:21:24] <CaptHindsight> http://www.digikey.com/product-search/en?vendor=10&keywords=panasonic+pgs look at the thermal conductivity compared to aluminum or copper http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/thermal-conductivity-d_429.html
[16:21:32] <CaptHindsight> Jymmm: ^^
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[16:34:26] <michiD> hallo ist jemand hier der sich mit die endschalter auskennt? bei linuxcnc
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[16:35:45] <IchGuckLive> ja
[16:35:53] <IchGuckLive> ich sitze in kaiserslautern
[16:36:20] <michiD> ich nähe magdeburg
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[16:36:33] <IchGuckLive> bitte drück mal auf meine nick
[16:39:52] <PetefromTn_> http://imagebin.org/310079 BEAUTIFUL....LOL
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[16:40:42] <Khoal_mIRC> I am jealous!
[16:41:12] * SpeedEvil sighs.
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[16:43:54] <PetefromTn_> hehe I did not really want to spend that much cash but now that it is here man I am pleased I did. there are of course more expensive vises out there but this is all I could afford.
[16:45:14] <AggieMEEN> It's a good investment. All the mills in our machine shop use those, and they're great.
[16:46:05] <PetefromTn_> yeah me too. The shop I work in has a bunch of them all KURT. This is the D688 which is the newer ones they have and I really like them.
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[16:49:03] <IchGuckLive> AggieMEEN: dio you got a swiss AGIE
[16:50:03] <FrankZappa> kurt good
[16:50:10] <FrankZappa> swappable jaws good
[16:50:35] <AggieMEEN> IchGuckLive: No, AggieMEEN is because I am a graduate of Texas A&M University (an Aggie) and a mechanical engineer (MEEN). :)
[16:52:33] <IchGuckLive> texas got alot of water this week
[16:52:44] <FrankZappa> Chexis
[16:53:04] <IchGuckLive> texas university got nice cheerleaders but they changed the dress in 2010
[16:53:12] <AggieMEEN> That is a good thing. TX has been under a drought for so long
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[16:53:41] <IchGuckLive> long drought means high flood
[16:54:27] <AggieMEEN> Yes, flash floods can be a problem there.
[16:55:46] <AggieMEEN> Hopefully the rain will reduce the chances of wildfires this summer. 2011 was really bad for those.
[16:55:48] <PetefromTn_> Damn it is nice to tram in the vise and have it show NO movement across the entire jaw and then take the DTI across the ways of the vise and have the same thing. KURT RULES!!
[16:55:51] <CaptHindsight> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Hitachi-Seiki-VM-40-/271471024038 didn't even sell for $2k
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[16:57:05] <XXCoder> too bad
[16:57:27] <XXCoder> maybe bad location or no owner with nesscary mover to cartry it wanted it
[16:57:35] <XXCoder> carry
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[17:01:48] <PetefromTn_> fixed jaw is perfectly square to the bed. I feel like a kid at Christmas .
[17:02:03] <FrankZappa> cool
[17:02:05] <FrankZappa> congrats
[17:02:10] <FrankZappa> what are you gonna make?
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[17:03:08] <PetefromTn_> well all sorts of stuff. I have some custom scope riser rails I have been making and selling and I just got a customer wanting some custom parts for Mazda RX7 twin turbo cars here I am working on.
[17:03:20] <SpeedEvil> CaptHindsight: damn
[17:03:23] <PetefromTn_> I have been using a cheap Shars CNC vise and it has been less than stellar.
[17:03:46] <PetefromTn_> I am gonna try to regrind it at the shop I am temporarily working in to get it flat and square.
[17:04:01] <PetefromTn_> then I can use it for dual vise second op setups and such.
[17:05:04] <FrankZappa> heavy parts?
[17:06:20] <PetefromTn_> no nice small precise parts. aluminum.
[17:06:40] <PetefromTn_> I will let the shop I work in handle the real heavy stuff. I don't even have a fork truck here LOL.
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[17:07:00] <FrankZappa> cool
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[17:07:03] <PetefromTn_> Damn vise is so nice and shiny I am afraid to cut anything on it now damnit LOL
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[17:08:48] <CaptHindsight> http://www.ebay.com/itm/KURT-VISE-D100-8-vise-with-9-75-opening-NEW-/271168152286 really? $3k
[17:09:45] <CaptHindsight> just soak in bleach and a little vinegar to make it look worth using :)
[17:11:27] <PetefromTn_> We have some of those 8" ones at work. They are really huge. and stupid heavy. We have to use the gantry to load them into the machines.
[17:13:06] <PetefromTn_> http://s177.photobucket.com/user/pirellip/media/IMG_20140130_170335.jpg.html Just bought a rifle like this without the custom stock and Leupold scope etc. I am gonna try to build it to look just like that beauty.
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[17:15:06] <CaptHindsight> http://i.imgur.com/vne5E.jpg we didn't have this when I was a kid :(
[17:15:42] <PetefromTn_> Got a smokin' deal on it too.
[17:15:43] <PetefromTn_> Now I need to sell some damn parts here to pay for a nice scope so I can get back into Field Target Competitions.
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[17:19:23] <PetefromTn_> God help us LOL
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[17:27:03] <XXCoder> only 6??
[17:27:05] <XXCoder> lol
[17:27:22] <XXCoder> that said, I saw pet cop sjow where they went to arrest cat hoarder
[17:27:36] <XXCoder> there was over 200 cats. nearly all was put to sleep due to serious health issues
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[17:30:23] * Tom_itx wonders if PetefromTn_ has dinged up his new vise yet
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[17:33:49] <archivist> to busy cleaning the vice to be using it
[17:34:17] <zeeshan|2> archivist: give me your levels !
[17:34:17] <zeeshan|2> :]
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[17:35:04] * archivist lock all teh doors
[17:35:14] <zeeshan|2> haha
[17:35:24] <zeeshan|2> im bored today
[17:35:31] <zeeshan|2> still waiting on ballscrew from china
[17:35:31] <zeeshan|2> =/
[17:35:37] <zeeshan|2> zzzzzzzzZZ
[17:35:47] <archivist> drawing bored
[17:36:35] <zeeshan|2> http://www.kijiji.ca/v-hand-tool/london/bench-vise-record-brand-made-in-england/591480297
[17:36:39] <zeeshan|2> i dunno if this is a good deal
[17:36:44] <zeeshan|2> i bet i can bring him down to 50$
[17:36:51] <zeeshan|2> its a 1 1/2 hr drive one way
[17:37:16] <archivist> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AgMI0BObEXI
[17:38:28] <zeeshan|2> lol
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[17:41:37] <archivist> you have to be a certain age to get all the jokes :)
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[17:42:55] <PetefromTn_> Damn WTF is with this IRC today LOL
[17:43:43] <IchGuckLive> pete got NSA traffic
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[17:44:03] <PetefromTn_> seriously? hehe
[17:45:09] <PetefromTn_> Got my vise trammed in, got my part zeroed, got the program almost done. Gonna go sit down and finish the Cam work and get this bitch cutting LOL..
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[17:46:17] <PetefromTn_> I really need to get myself a nice heavy rubber mallet with replaceable heads so I can smack down the parts easier. This rubber mallet is simply not heavy enough.
[17:46:59] <archivist> if clean why do you need to smack down :)
[17:48:04] <PetefromTn_> I always like to smack it down to make sure my parallels are solid and the part is as flat as I can possibly get it. I will say that it MUCH easier on this new kurt LOL
[17:48:38] <PetefromTn_> Local Radio station is playing Stayin' Alive by the Bee Gees.... Damn that is a great song my wife is dancing here to it LOL
[17:53:18] <IchGuckLive> pete go to cmdline an make a tracert to a faforit www to see what pc are involved and lock your search
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[17:56:34] <PetefromTn_> huh?
[17:57:00] <PetefromTn_> I have NO idea what you are talking about man.
[17:57:14] <IchGuckLive> are you on WINXP
[17:57:25] <PetefromTn_> no I am on Icechat9
[17:57:44] <PetefromTn_> what are you trying to do?
[17:58:07] <IchGuckLive> to give you the idee if NSA is watching your keypress
[17:59:05] <IchGuckLive> if you see a Nebraska or a utah link you are on ! ;-)
[17:59:12] <PetefromTn_> yeah I appreciate it man but honestly I could give a rats ass if they are. I got nothing to hide LOL
[17:59:32] <Einar2> Is buying a Kurt something that will turn up in red by them?
[17:59:43] <PetefromTn_> hehe
[18:00:02] <PetefromTn_> I will just tell them it was my wife's idea
[18:00:05] <PetefromTn_> hehe
[18:00:13] <IchGuckLive> im off BYE europ song contest germany 0 points O.O
[18:00:19] -!- IchGuckLive has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.87 [Firefox 20.0/20130329043827]]
[18:00:42] <PetefromTn_> she'll get pissed off at them and they will get scared and leave quick like.
[18:01:07] <PetefromTn_> what does O.O mean?
[18:01:47] <AggieMEEN> Must be one of those European things. ;P
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[18:02:50] <PetefromTn_> I guess so huh.
[18:03:22] <PetefromTn_> this program is about as good as I know how to make it. Gonna plug it into the machine and see what happens YIKES!!
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[18:20:14] <zeeshan|2> if you guys search
[18:20:15] <zeeshan|2> 456MAZ
[18:20:18] <zeeshan|2> on ebay
[18:20:19] <zeeshan|2> what comes up?
[18:22:29] <SpeedEvil> Nothing
[18:22:40] <zeeshan|2> weird
[18:22:40] <zeeshan|2> so weird
[18:22:57] <SpeedEvil> Oh - if I re-click worldwide, a caliper
[18:23:33] <zeeshan|2> ah
[18:23:34] <zeeshan|2> okay good
[18:23:44] <zeeshan|2> ebay's changed their stuff
[18:23:57] <zeeshan|2> you have to select 'international; shipping'
[18:23:59] <zeeshan|2> specifically
[18:24:06] <zeeshan|2> so it gets visible to people from usa
[18:24:13] <zeeshan|2> it wasn't like that a couple years ago!
[18:24:54] <SpeedEvil> My last search was for UK only, as I want stuff to arrive quickly
[18:25:01] <zeeshan|2> ahh i see
[18:25:20] <SpeedEvil> And - well - drill presses aren't likely to ship economically
[18:26:03] <zeeshan|2> haha yea..
[18:26:07] <zeeshan|2> thats something id buy locally
[18:26:10] <zeeshan|2> never through ebay
[18:26:21] <SpeedEvil> Ebay does local too
[18:26:31] <zeeshan|2> oh
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[18:29:26] <SpeedEvil> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/RJH-FERRET-TOOL-LAPPER-3-PHASE-REVERSABLE-3000-RPM-/321393668891?pt=UK_BOI_Metalworking_Milling_Welding_Metalworking_Supplies_ET&hash=item4ad48e331b is the only really local tool to me
[18:29:35] <SpeedEvil> Which unless I'm confused is a ridiculous price
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[18:31:16] <zeeshan|2> hehe
[18:32:03] <archivist> make an offer £3.99
[18:32:10] <Loetmichel> 400 pounds for a single disc grinder fitted with a rubber wheel?
[18:32:15] <Loetmichel> i dont think so
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[19:31:48] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: That's still $37/sq ft for a fancy pencil =)
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[21:08:48] <jdh> http://raleigh.craigslist.org/tls/4463330703.html
[21:08:53] <jdh> I'll be near that tomorrow
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[21:38:27] <Deejay> gn8
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[23:01:47] <FrankZappa> hiya folks
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