#linuxcnc | Logs for 2014-04-13

[00:00:09] <shaun416> Hi all
[00:00:15] <shaun416> hello Jymmm
[00:01:47] <Jymmm> andypugh: Very cool toy =)
[00:02:54] <shaun416> Jymmm, whats your thought on mini lathes?like microlux or lms
[00:02:59] <MrHindsight> how many ponds per hour will it pump?
[00:03:19] <andypugh> 350 gallons per minute, I think.
[00:03:31] <MrHindsight> andypugh: in all seriousness, what type of pump is it?
[00:03:56] <andypugh> She is basically pretty much the same spec as any other fire engine, they had pumps sorted bu then.
[00:04:11] <MrHindsight> centrifugal?
[00:04:20] <MrHindsight> innneresting
[00:04:46] <andypugh> The pump is a 2-stage back-to-back centrifugal pump with an iron body and bronze impeller to designed by Tomini.
[00:05:22] <andypugh> The same design was used from then to about 1985 with only changes to (cheaper) materials.
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[00:20:11] <KreAture> Loetmichel u there ?
[00:20:15] <KreAture> Got my rails!
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[00:23:34] <shaun416> oh hi KreAture
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[00:49:13] <witnit> how does one know what their printer port address is? Interrupt: pin A routed to IRQ 21
[00:49:14] <witnit> Region 0: I/O ports at 5058 [size=8]
[00:49:14] <witnit> Region 1: I/O ports at 5050 [size=4]
[00:49:14] <witnit> Region 2: I/O ports at 5020 [size=32]
[00:49:38] <jdh> try lspci -vv
[00:50:14] <witnit> i just pasted the lspci -vv
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[00:51:07] <jdh> oh. That doesn't look like I remember it.
[00:51:41] <topcyde> try it with one -v
[00:51:44] <Jymmm> You want the BASE ADRESS, no the IRQ. (0378, 0278, etc)
[00:51:51] <witnit> it says the parallel port it 0xford I wonder if they did that to be funny
[00:52:11] <Jymmm> There is no 'r', so probably
[00:52:22] <shaun416> Hi
[00:53:02] <witnit> https://gist.github.com/anonymous/10564005
[00:56:19] <witnit> so jymm where might I find this base address, I assume it is 5058 5050 5020 but it doesnt say what is what
[00:58:30] <topcyde> pastebin the who lspci -v return and link it back here
[00:58:35] <witnit> i just did
[00:58:37] <topcyde> whole
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[00:58:46] <topcyde> oh the github
[00:59:18] <jdh> is it a PCI parallel interface?
[00:59:33] <witnit> yeah
[00:59:34] <jdh> or rather, is that the only one
[00:59:40] <witnit> no
[01:01:24] <topcyde> witnit is this on a laptop?
[01:01:25] <witnit> https://gist.github.com/anonymous/10564168
[01:01:28] <witnit> no
[01:01:58] <jdh> I'd try 5050
[01:02:15] <witnit> how do you know though?
[01:02:29] <shaun416> hmm
[01:02:34] <shaun416> anyone have a HF lathe/
[01:02:37] <shaun416> dare I ask...
[01:02:46] <jdh> shaun416: two of them.
[01:02:59] <shaun416> are they good/.
[01:03:16] <jdh> good covers a lot of ground.
[01:03:30] <shaun416> pics of what you made?
[01:03:31] <jdh> overall, I'd say no.
[01:03:42] <shaun416> they are not good?
[01:03:45] <jdh> but they aren't bad, they are what they are.
[01:03:50] <shaun416> :/
[01:04:02] <shaun416> better off buying a microlux or little machine shop?
[01:04:56] <jdh> depends on what you want out of it, but I wouldn't have high expectations for any chinese 7x
[01:05:08] <jdh> the 8x12 is much beefier machine
[01:05:38] <shaun416> i want something decent
[01:05:42] <shaun416> that will be reliable
[01:05:51] <jdh> size of parts to make?
[01:05:57] <shaun416> i dont need 500lbs of cast iron
[01:06:01] <shaun416> or an old monarch
[01:06:15] <jdh> check out 12x grizzlys
[01:06:16] <shaun416> I need something that can fit on a small bench,
[01:06:20] <shaun416> is decent for the price
[01:06:24] <shaun416> and under 1k
[01:06:57] <jdh> HF 8x12 weighs 3x as much as their 7x
[01:07:06] <shaun416> yes
[01:07:11] <shaun416> its also more pricy
[01:07:47] <jdh> http://www.grizzly.com/products/10-x-22-Bench-Top-Metal-Lathe/G0602
[01:07:57] <shaun416> its all the same chinese
[01:08:14] <jdh> HF 7x is often on sale for $399 then 25% coupon.,
[01:08:20] <jdh> won't get any where near that on price.
[01:08:28] <shaun416> well yeah...
[01:08:41] <shaun416> but doesnt that tell you something...
[01:08:48] <shaun416> and is tooling available?
[01:08:52] <topcyde> witnit, have you used rmod and lsmod to remove and reinstall parport?
[01:09:14] <witnit> no
[01:09:21] <witnit> I never assumed I should have to do anything
[01:10:12] <topcyde> try this then: cat /proc/ioports | grep parport
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[01:10:24] <witnit> maybe the technology is just so new, the computer cant handle it, you know since printer ports just came out 6 months ago
[01:10:37] <topcyde> hehehe
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[01:11:08] <Jymmm> witnit: was that before or after tokenring?
[01:11:10] <topcyde> found this of use when helping my frind troubleshoot getting linuxcnc setup this past fall
[01:11:12] <topcyde> http://stackoverflow.com/questions/8829820/finding-memory-address-of-a-parallel-port-on-linux
[01:11:46] <witnit> well ichanged my onboard parallel ports address to 278 and now it wont boot.
[01:11:47] <witnit> so
[01:11:54] <witnit> a min.
[01:12:42] <witnit> should have just bought another mesa card,
[01:13:47] <topcyde> one thing I've ran into with the pci cards is that for somereason they don't work when you install them onto a running machine, you have to reinstall LinuxCNC after putting in the hardware.
[01:13:57] <witnit> topcyde cat /proc/ioports | grep parport
[01:14:00] <witnit> results
[01:14:04] <topcyde> Or I'm just too dumb to get tehconfiguration right.
[01:14:10] <witnit> 5050-5052 : parport1
[01:14:10] <witnit> 5058-505a : parport1
[01:14:10] <witnit> 505b-505f : parport1
[01:14:31] <shaun413> Jymmm, thoughts on mini lathes
[01:14:33] <shaun413> 7x
[01:14:54] <topcyde> go with the first one
[01:15:19] <topcyde> this is onboard parallel port right?
[01:15:23] <witnit> no
[01:15:29] <witnit> PCI
[01:15:50] <topcyde> and you had the card in when you installed?
[01:15:51] <witnit> my onboartd is currently sitting on 278-027a
[01:16:05] <witnit> I did not, I assume I shall try it.
[01:16:09] <witnit> but really?
[01:16:16] <witnit> Im SURE i dont need to
[01:16:45] <shaun413> :/
[01:16:50] <topcyde> Twice before I ran into this and I back up my previous statement of I may just be too dumb to get it configured correctly.
[01:17:07] <witnit> yeah topcyde im definately going to resort to that
[01:17:40] <witnit> I just thought maybe someone would be like... ohh bla blah THIS is how you know what to use as the base adress.
[01:18:00] <topcyde> I thought that too
[01:18:05] <topcyde> both times
[01:18:34] <witnit> welp haha I think I will just do as you have done :)
[01:18:55] <topcyde> Buddy and I spent a week looking at allsorts of forums and chat logs trying to figure out where we screwed up the first time.
[01:19:11] <shaun413> 0.0
[01:19:20] <witnit> its a fresh system but atleast this time the card I have has actual chips on it and shows up as a printer port instead of serial device
[01:19:39] <topcyde> well that is certainly a bonus
[01:19:46] <witnit> the other one I had was some crazy nonsense 50cent card
[01:20:00] <witnit> someone tried to pass as a standard ready to go parallel port
[01:20:13] <topcyde> sometimes you get lucky with those. sometimes ... well usually not.
[01:20:23] <witnit> yeah i knew it was bad idea when I bought it
[01:20:35] <andypugh> It’s one of the three from /proc/ioports. Just see which one works?
[01:20:55] <witnit> yeah andypugh I just wanted to know how you can tel
[01:20:58] <witnit> tell
[01:20:59] <topcyde> but hey I always like getting $5 of components for 50cents
[01:21:33] <witnit> and just swapping those addresses out in the config did now give good results
[01:21:34] <topcyde> it's usually the first one
[01:22:01] <andypugh> One maybe the port to use for EPP
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[01:22:41] <andypugh> Anyway, things to do tomorrow.
[01:23:08] <witnit> :)
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[01:23:13] <witnit> take care AP
[01:28:08] <witnit> ha I must have found something right, now im managing to lock up the pc evertime I call the card =D
[01:28:43] <shaun413> witnit,
[01:28:47] <shaun413> ever use a HF?
[01:29:06] <witnit> I dont know what those two letters stand for
[01:29:15] <shaun413> Harbor freight
[01:29:25] <witnit> I hear they make good door stops
[01:29:31] <shaun413> :p
[01:29:56] <shaun413> what is the BEST option for a new lathe
[01:30:01] <shaun413> 7x size
[01:30:55] <topcyde> usually HF stand for high frequency, as in how highly frequently shaun413 is annoying people with repeatedly asking the same question to people hoping to somehow get the answer he wants.
[01:31:03] <shaun413> Hmmm....
[01:38:51] <witnit> this should be a more common thing to see
[01:38:54] <witnit> http://i.imgur.com/JC5HFQ5.jpg
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[02:43:09] <skunkworks> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a_pQJdyQVLA
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[03:00:37] <Jymmm> WTH kind of dive is this?! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JU2lFg1rwgg
[03:05:16] <jdh> an Estun ProNet-E drive
[03:06:20] <Jymmm> jdh: Sorry, I didn't mean make/model... But the damn thing is a frickin intellignt/computer built in drive sorta thing
[03:06:40] <Jymmm> self contained
[03:08:37] <jdh> fairly common
[03:08:46] <jdh> (not that one, but intelligent drives)
[03:10:33] <jdh> I got a systems with Parker Compax3 drives that are similar
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[03:10:53] <Jymmm> Hmmm
[03:11:21] <jdh> the setup lives in the motor/encoder though. If the drive dies, you just stick a new one on and it pulls all the info at power-up
[03:12:28] <Jymmm> the battery thing is slick
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[03:20:45] <shaun413_> Hello!
[03:27:48] <humble_sea_bass> nope
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[03:39:31] <XXCoder> wow
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[03:39:58] <zq> man
[03:39:58] <zq> anyone tried the pru stepgen from machinekit?
[03:39:58] <zq> i don't see how the pru makes any difference
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[03:53:29] <mhaberler> zq: what did you try against
[03:56:00] <zq> mhaberler: huh
[03:56:08] <zq> i haven't tried anything
[03:56:19] <zq> except look glance through the code for several seconds
[03:56:32] <zq> but i'm curious how the pru affords a higher step arte
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[04:08:18] <mhaberler> du you understand the AM335X architecture insofar as what a PRU is and does?
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[04:26:06] <zq> of course
[04:26:27] <zq> but at the end of the day, you still have to do generate pulses in a loop
[04:26:39] <zq> and the pru has no fpu
[04:26:40] <shaun413> Is the gingery stuff actually good?
[04:26:45] <shaun413> Worth making?
[04:35:58] <mhaberler> you dont need fp for the stepgen base thread, which is basically what the PRU stepgen code does
[04:36:38] <mhaberler> th fp part of stepgen is still host side
[04:36:58] <mhaberler> but that is servo rate
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[05:28:15] <zq> hm
[05:28:27] <zq> stepgen.c is filled with fp
[05:28:46] <zq> guess you could emulate that with fixed p
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[05:32:54] <mhaberler> look again, only the servo thread function is ‚filled with fp'
[05:33:43] <mhaberler> stepgens (both vanilla and PRU) have 2 thread functions - one servo thread, uses fp; and a base thread, which does not use fp
[05:34:18] <mhaberler> therefore there is no need to emulate - no fp in base thread function
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[05:54:47] <zq> mhaberler: i meant jmkasunich's stepgen
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[06:02:46] <Jymmm> AutoSock, a tire chan alternative (not bad)... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WtBzXVbE3Rc
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[07:17:18] <mhaberler> well that isnt used with the PRU, see http://goo.gl/DCcNuM
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[08:39:20] <GuShH_> holy crap a ball bearing jacobs chuck model 20n is 350 bucks?
[08:41:30] <archivist> the chinese copy is a lot cheaper and if you get to pick the best in a pile is reasonably good
[08:41:47] <GuShH_> haha
[08:41:52] <GuShH_> like pigs, sorting through the crap.
[08:42:10] <GuShH_> I'm looking at used jacobs ... that one just got mixed in the list
[08:42:24] <GuShH_> the low duty small ones are very cheap by comparison
[08:42:27] <GuShH_> even when new
[08:42:41] <archivist> boss had one, looked at a pile at a show, got one and it is effin good for the price
[08:42:46] <GuShH_> but... the ball bearing, that's not something they produce. the rest seems to be the same inside
[08:43:02] <GuShH_> I just looked at a picture of a replacement kit
[08:43:58] <GuShH_> seems the outer sleeve just rides on the bearing but the rest is exactly the same?
[08:45:10] <archivist> copied, but to what specification :)
[08:45:49] <GuShH_> http://www.sears.com/jacobs-manufacturing-co-ball-bearing-geared-key/p-SPM7466704905
[08:46:08] <GuShH_> I like how one of the pictures shows an old rusty one...
[08:46:35] <GuShH_> and it's not even the same model
[08:47:11] * GuShH_ has a beef with jacobs, from Lost
[08:47:57] <archivist> I just get an expport page from sears not what you pointed at
[08:48:44] <GuShH_> oh?
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[08:49:05] <Loetmichel> dito here
[08:49:14] <GuShH_> odd
[08:49:22] <archivist> some sites are badly designed
[08:49:59] <GuShH_> I would say most are
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[08:50:15] <GuShH_> http://imgur.com/8YR4Ap1
[08:50:26] <Loetmichel> someone thought it was a good idea to track the client IP for location and sow the "approbiate" page instead of the linked one ;-)
[08:50:27] <GuShH_> so maybe that wasn't USD?, what's going on...
[08:50:45] <GuShH_> that's so wrong at so many levels.
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[10:20:30] <Deejay> moin
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[10:26:20] <witnit> hey =D
[10:27:21] <bedah> ha! moin deejay
[10:27:33] <Deejay> hi bedah
[10:27:34] <bedah> ach mist, der kennt mich hier nicht
[10:27:36] <bedah> ;D
[10:27:54] <bedah> hi all
[10:28:59] <Deejay> wer büssn du?
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[10:31:08] <Deejay> hm
[10:33:32] <Deejay> the man with the cap
[10:34:40] <bedah> http://imgur.com/a/hxeu7 the man with a fully operational minicnc now :D
[10:34:59] <witnit> =D
[10:35:00] <bedah> no time to connect drivers.. gotta clean up the house
[10:35:03] <witnit> nice
[10:35:35] <Deejay> the man with steppers mounted on stilts
[10:35:54] <Deejay> ;-)
[10:36:51] <archivist> stilts are ok the coupler I see not so ok
[10:38:14] <witnit> whats wrong with coupler?
[10:38:21] <Deejay> have to leave again, cya later guys!
[10:38:35] <witnit> cu
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[10:38:57] <bedah> yes, what's wrong with them? too sturdy?
[10:40:15] <witnit> the only real problem i see is the open vents on spindle
[10:40:49] <archivist> normally one uses a coupler that can deal with the stepper axis not being in line with the screw axis
[10:41:04] <witnit> oh to prevent binding
[10:41:42] <archivist> the extra force will cause the coupler screws to come loose just when you dont want
[10:41:57] <bedah> hm ok.
[10:42:16] <bedah> i think even loctite will not solve this
[10:42:31] <witnit> I dunno those are not very high torque
[10:42:53] <witnit> but some of those couplers are cheap
[10:43:14] <witnit> but hard to fit where that goes I think
[10:44:54] <Swapper_> anyone that can explain why i get 8192 pulses when i turn the motor shaft of the motor 1 turn but the output lines should be 4096
[10:45:24] <Swapper_> i did see somting that the mesa 7i77 multiply the counts with 4
[10:45:39] <Swapper_> but then that should be 16384
[10:45:47] <Swapper_> not 8192
[10:45:55] <archivist> counting edges
[10:46:08] <Swapper_> ya but why only x 2 then ?
[10:46:21] <archivist> have you set the right mode
[10:46:54] <Swapper_> i have mode 0
[10:46:59] <Swapper_> and that should be right
[10:47:09] <Swapper_> since i have a quaderature encoder
[10:47:41] <witnit> you are sure it is software issue
[10:48:00] <witnit> possibly got a wire backwards?
[10:48:16] <archivist> what does the encoder label say the count is
[10:48:55] <Swapper_> its a servodriver so i can set it in sofware
[10:49:08] <Swapper_> it emulates a 4096 line encoder atm
[10:49:47] <Swapper_> and in pncconf i type in 4096 lines and it x 4 = 16384
[10:50:02] <Swapper_> its for the spindle drive
[10:50:10] <witnit> what does the scope look like
[10:50:16] <witnit> same both directions?
[10:50:18] <Swapper_> and i trying to get the rpm output to work
[10:50:47] <Swapper_> yea i zeroed the encoder and turende the shaft 1 turn and it got 8192 pulses
[10:50:49] <Swapper_> on the counter
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[10:51:06] <Swapper_> when i looked at the mesa 7i77 raw counter
[10:52:12] <Swapper_> and i think 8192 would work but i whant to understand why its that value and not 4096 or 16384
[10:52:17] <archivist> wired both a and b ?
[10:52:22] <Swapper_> yea
[10:52:30] <Swapper_> and index
[10:52:58] <witnit> have you tried hooking up the nots only?
[10:53:10] <Swapper_> but would i see this if 1 channel is not working ?
[10:53:14] <witnit> maybe the standard end of things is silly
[10:53:32] <witnit> yeah Im sure thats not it
[10:53:48] <witnit> I just had an issue in the past but I could see that my a or b was bad by scoope
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[10:54:47] <witnit> do you know the true lpr of the encoder?
[10:54:55] <Swapper_> its a resolver at the motor
[10:55:00] <witnit> ohh
[10:55:02] <Swapper_> the servoamp converts it
[10:55:06] <witnit> I see
[10:55:07] <Swapper_> to emulated encoder
[10:55:26] <Swapper_> and i can set whatever up to 4096 lines per rev
[10:56:02] <witnit> maybe the resolver is only pulling half counts
[10:56:02] <Swapper_> but i feel i have missed somting in the scale/conversion process
[10:56:22] <Swapper_> hum ok
[10:56:23] <witnit> so everything else looks right but you never see it since its behind the amp
[11:00:05] <Swapper_> "Pulses are
[11:00:06] <Swapper_> output as two signals, A and B, with 90° phase difference and a zero pulse. The resolution
[11:00:08] <Swapper_> (lines before quadrature) can be changed with the RESOLUTION parameter:"
[11:00:14] <Swapper_> thats from the manual
[11:00:34] <Swapper_> maybe it is as you said, "before" quaderature
[11:01:21] <Swapper_> or how should i understand this ?
[11:01:26] <witnit> i never messed with such a device, im noob to resolvers common practice
[11:01:39] <witnit> souble whatever the resolution paremeter is?
[11:01:45] <witnit> double*?
[11:01:59] <witnit> or divide by two or somehting
[11:02:06] <witnit> so what turn up
[11:02:08] <archivist> use a scope to check what you set has happened
[11:03:23] <Swapper_> what i see with a setting of 4096 in the amp is that i get x 2 pulses on the encoder input
[11:03:24] <witnit> these RLS problems have to be the best education for such a field, getting problem solved in an irxc
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[11:05:44] <Swapper_> then the amp is probably putting out 2048 lines per rev
[11:06:01] <Swapper_> if i put that in pncconf then i think its right
[11:06:07] <Swapper_> ill try it later
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[12:30:19] <Loetmichel> hmm, strange. changed the chain kit on the 50cc motorcycle from 12/46 teeth back to allowed 12/50 teeth... bike still runs 80kmh instead of the allowed 50kmh... no just at a higher rpm.. ?!?
[12:31:14] <Loetmichel> ... at least its doing that now without the chain hopping teeth ;-)
[12:32:00] <GuShH_> darn ... http://www.dura-bar.com/ wish we had a place like that over here
[12:32:41] <GuShH_> Loetmichel: any ideas on non common sources of small diameter cast iron rod?
[12:32:56] <Loetmichel> no
[12:33:07] <GuShH_> aww
[12:33:18] <Loetmichel> other than : buy a plate in fitting thickness and saw/turn them down
[12:33:32] <GuShH_> o.O
[12:33:45] <Loetmichel> cast iron and small diameter doesent mix very well
[12:33:53] <Loetmichel> its a bit brittle that stuff ;-)
[12:34:13] <GuShH_> this blueprint calls for cast iron, half inch turned diameter so the stock would have to be slightly bigger
[12:34:28] <Loetmichel> how long?
[12:34:37] <GuShH_> the finished parts?
[12:34:41] <Loetmichel> yes
[12:34:53] <GuShH_> one is 15mm and the other is 9mm
[12:35:01] <Loetmichel> ok, then its ok
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[12:35:11] <Loetmichel> i thought about 300mm and longer rods
[12:35:22] <Loetmichel> in half inch cast iron thats gureed to break off
[12:35:24] <GuShH_> piston and contra-piston
[12:36:05] <Loetmichel> but at this size: get a lump of laying around cast iron and a hole saw and saw your parts out of it
[12:36:20] <GuShH_> no lumps
[12:36:32] <miss0r> I have been reading on this image-to-gcode feature in the linuxcnc software. I am having a hard time making it do a "2D" version of the image: engraving only, at a preset dept. The image is all black and white. What am I missing - Can it be done with that software?
[12:36:51] <GuShH_> I've had chunks of broken cheap vises but I think I threw it all away
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[12:37:28] <Loetmichel> http://extreme.pcgameshardware.de/attachments/76341d1235318271-luefterplaetz-selbst-bauen-5462000.jpg
[12:37:33] <Loetmichel> this saws
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[12:37:42] <GuShH_> I might end up using steel for the cylinder and aluminum for the rest
[12:37:43] <Loetmichel> just use them without the pilot drill
[12:37:51] <Loetmichel> in a sturdy mill ;-)
[12:37:52] <GuShH_> hole saw
[12:37:57] <GuShH_> no mill yet
[12:38:20] <GuShH_> I need to make space at the garage for one...
[12:38:30] <Loetmichel> or in a rigid table drill
[12:38:33] <GuShH_> previous owner left a big broken safe in there, he never came to pick it up
[12:38:40] <GuShH_> I need to get that thing OUT
[12:38:47] <Loetmichel> hrhr
[12:38:56] <GuShH_> it's the size of a knee mill...
[12:39:18] <Loetmichel> i once aske my ex-boss why he left the safe in the old company when moving to the new place.
[12:39:35] <Loetmichel> his answer: "that save has newton nailed down there!"
[12:39:38] <GuShH_> costs more to move it than to buy a new one in this case, but it's broken so no real use unless you want to invest in it
[12:39:46] <GuShH_> lol
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[12:39:59] <Loetmichel> ...took me a while to get it that the monster weights four tons ;-)
[12:40:34] <Loetmichel> metric tons
[12:40:53] <Loetmichel> iirc the delivery was through the wall on a forklift
[12:41:21] <Loetmichel> i.e: they teared down a wall so the forklift could drive into the office with the safe on its fork...
[12:41:53] <miss0r> good'ol newton bolts :)
[12:42:15] <Loetmichel> set it down, pull the fork out, shove it in the corner of the office, drove out, wall bricks put back in place ;-)
[12:43:15] <miss0r> Arent anyone using the image-to-gcode in here ?
[12:45:12] <miss0r> I am looking for some software that can take jpeg, png ect. pictures and convert them to dxf code. So that I can then convert it to proper g-code. Is that available for linux ?
[12:45:38] <Loetmichel> that depends on what you hope to get
[12:45:41] <Loetmichel> a relief?
[12:45:55] <Loetmichel> a "light thru" panel?
[12:46:29] <miss0r> light thru? I am hoping do do routing at 0.2mm dept
[12:46:38] <GuShH_> height map
[12:46:54] <Loetmichel> so the colours/graysale represents the depth?
[12:46:55] <miss0r> well, I am hoping to use a "flat" design
[12:47:08] * GuShH_ could code that up but what's in it for him...
[12:47:08] <miss0r> no. black= 0.2mm white = 0.0mm
[12:47:10] <miss0r> something like that
[12:47:17] <Loetmichel> ah, i see
[12:47:35] <Loetmichel> i have seen a tool that can do that but i dont rtemember the name
[12:47:42] <GuShH_> show me the image, some sample code.
[12:48:03] <miss0r> At the moment I am just trying to do http://th05.deviantart.net/fs71/PRE/f/2011/285/4/c/me_gusta_by_rober_raik-d4clrpu.png
[12:48:06] <miss0r> for the fun of it
[12:48:13] <GuShH_> sigh
[12:48:23] <miss0r> one has to start somewhere :)
[12:48:33] <Loetmichel> if all fails: use a tool that does 2 colour dithering and then use a vectorizer
[12:48:41] <GuShH_> my first test would probably be a set of good titties, not a meme.
[12:48:54] <GuShH_> and the sample code?
[12:49:05] <miss0r> I was hoping to be able to convert it to dxf or simular, so I won't have to do rows with depts across the plane
[12:49:17] <archivist> miss0r, image3gcode is a brightness to height, you just need to scale your levels
[12:49:29] <miss0r> GuShH_, at the moment I only have what the image-to-gcode python script generates
[12:49:33] <GuShH_> why would it be a 3 instead of a 2
[12:49:50] <GuShH_> oh so you want to create a vector path first...
[12:49:56] <miss0r> indeed
[12:50:01] <GuShH_> don't you also want it to massage you while you wait?
[12:50:13] <GuShH_> I've programmed vector tracers, but nothing worth sharing.
[12:50:21] <miss0r> sure - if it's not too much trouble ;)
[12:50:24] <archivist> you want an edge finding routine
[12:50:36] <Loetmichel> miss0r: if you use an image tool that converts your image to black and with ba dithering it "wood print like" and THEN use image2gcode you would get what you want
[12:51:02] <archivist> dont want dither with vectors
[12:51:16] <Loetmichel> dither is the wrong word
[12:51:21] <GuShH_> archivist: I actually used marching box followed by douglas peucker.
[12:51:45] <GuShH_> Loetmichel: you can simply constrain the levels
[12:51:54] <Loetmichel> there are tools that can convert color pic sto thes "line widht grayscale"
[12:51:58] <GuShH_> Loetmichel: but he wants to generate a logical path for the tool
[12:52:05] <GuShH_> instead of doing "scanlines"
[12:52:12] <GuShH_> not sure why he's on such a whim
[12:52:15] <PetefromTn_> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A3lBZo--kfU
[12:52:25] <Loetmichel> and then you can use THAT image to get it vectorized
[12:52:34] <miss0r> if possible - not to waste movement
[12:52:36] <GuShH_> sounds like a lot of effort for nothing
[12:52:58] <miss0r> it might be. I just thought that was the right way to go
[12:53:14] <miss0r> I am quite a newbie
[12:53:34] <PetefromTn_> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kIO-ZxW8PHM
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[12:56:38] <GuShH_> PetefromTn_: that doesn't seem to be generating vector paths?
[12:56:42] <GuShH_> just a relief, heightmap...
[12:59:38] <PetefromTn_> http://www.cambam.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=2170.0
[13:00:07] <GuShH_> still, not doing what he requested (vector path)
[13:00:38] <miss0r> Is it even out there, the software of which I speak?
[13:00:43] <GuShH_> it's not as trivial as it sounds to program something that works in "all cases"
[13:00:56] <GuShH_> miss0r: doubtful, I bet I can code it but again... for wat
[13:00:57] <GuShH_> what*
[13:00:59] <PetefromTn_> It can also do 3d toolpaths similarly surface from bitmap
[13:01:44] <miss0r> GuShH_, Indeed - I have nothing to offer. But I was thinking it would be alot faster to do it that way, that to scan across the plane
[13:01:53] <Jymmm> miss0r: Use the trace feature in inkscape.
[13:02:00] <archivist> vector from image is generally not the right idea
[13:02:13] <GuShH_> from a picture... well no.
[13:02:18] <GuShH_> but he showed an "ink" drawing
[13:02:40] <GuShH_> which consists of curves.
[13:02:54] <miss0r> Yeah - i'm not realy hoping to do portraits of people or anything like that. Just black/white design of sorts
[13:04:58] <miss0r> I was just hoping to get a fast and simple way to transfer graphic design to my board.
[13:05:23] <Jymmm> That's not what you asked for
[13:05:25] <miss0r> and since I am a horrible newbie, something I can draw in gimp or something like that
[13:05:27] <GuShH_> those tools do it, just not in the way you want them to.
[13:05:52] <miss0r> well, I want them to do it the way I want it :)
[13:05:54] <GuShH_> they take bitmaps, use their levels to come up with a depth, based on some given constraints... then output the code.
[13:06:01] <GuShH_> miss0r: hire someone then
[13:06:03] <GuShH_> or learn.
[13:06:14] <miss0r> learning is what I am hoping to do here ;)
[13:06:22] <GuShH_> start by learning c or c++
[13:06:23] <Jymmm> miss0r: This aint Burger King, you can't have it your way!
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[13:06:28] <GuShH_> we'll see you back in about 10 years.
[13:06:51] <GuShH_> Jymmm: bah ever since they changed their fries they CANT have it my way.
[13:06:52] <archivist> edge detect to get from bitmap to vector, then vector to gcode
[13:06:54] <miss0r> Jymmm, Burger King won't even do it my way... apparently it is "crazy" to order a burger without the buns
[13:07:09] <miss0r> archivist, I will look into that, thank you
[13:07:09] <GuShH_> edge detection is just a convolution kernel based filter....
[13:07:11] <GuShH_> it's still a bitmap
[13:07:20] <GuShH_> you need to trace it.
[13:07:34] <Jymmm> miss0r: CarlsJr you can... Just ask for the low carb option and they will replace the buns with lettuce wrap
[13:07:35] <GuShH_> marching box works fine for that, you then have to optimize it.
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[13:07:44] <GuShH_> but to characterize each separate object it well, gets tricky
[13:07:56] <GuShH_> using an accumulation buffer helps with that
[13:08:23] <GuShH_> a burger without buns is not a burger sir.
[13:08:37] <GuShH_> it's just some stuff on a patty.
[13:08:40] <archivist> miss0r, you will likely get a lot of jaggies unless you cheat or the edge detect also curve detects
[13:08:50] <Jymmm> My "Teddy Bear" I laser engraved on 12" black granite tile from a photograph... http://i54.tinypic.com/k2mo7n.jpg
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[13:09:13] <GuShH_> if after the detection and optimization you convert the points into bezier curves, no jaggies..
[13:09:19] <GuShH_> again, non trivial.
[13:09:54] <archivist> curve fitting is a bit of a minefield :)
[13:11:03] <archivist> GuShH_, you got the Graphics Gems series of books?
[13:11:14] <miss0r> I can tell I need to read up on the terms you use :)
[13:11:51] <GuShH_> Loetmichel: meanwhile in Honda HQ, Japan - They're testing a brand new motorcycle http://oi60.tinypic.com/4k7mte.jpg
[13:15:11] <miss0r> With a simple image-to-gcode generated g-code, wouldn't it be possible to just remove all movement where z=0 ?
[13:15:22] <miss0r> and them use that as a half-assed sorta' tracing?
[13:16:09] * GuShH_ doesn't follow
[13:16:11] <GuShH_> archivist: maaaybe
[13:16:39] <archivist> I thought you would :)
[13:16:50] <archivist> I am missing one of the set
[13:17:00] <miss0r> This one traces across the plane and each time it has to do some milling, it dips z to minus something. If I could just find a way to remove all the movement where it just scans the surface, I would have reduced the time spend by alot
[13:17:27] <GuShH_> I'm not sure it would output non required code
[13:18:01] <GuShH_> but it could just be a dumb dump
[13:18:37] <miss0r> it does. err, I think it does - I see no reason for it to move from max to min each time it passes when it only touches down 5% across the scan
[13:20:39] <archivist> hack the code
[13:21:29] <miss0r> indeed. I just thought enough opensource people did this, to find a nice little software pack prebuild :)
[13:21:50] <GuShH_> opensource, pfft.
[13:22:29] <miss0r> GuShH_, Whats wrong with opensource? it's bad because it doesn't make you rich? ;)
[13:22:37] <GuShH_> nothing makes me rich
[13:22:51] <miss0r> Thats the spirit.
[13:22:53] <GuShH_> it's bad because most of it is stagnant crap
[13:25:13] <GuShH_> archivist: any idea what the "part" up top might be? http://imgur.com/XH7W0MY it's a small lot of trashy items someone is trying to sell.
[13:28:32] <archivist> part of the guts of something like a rotary
[13:29:24] <archivist> I have something similar in a rusty rotary I got off fleabay
[13:29:57] <GuShH_> rotary pump?
[13:30:38] <GuShH_> odd they would place that next to the lathe stuff
[13:31:15] <archivist> indexing type rotary
[13:32:53] <GuShH_> oh
[13:36:57] <archivist> internal to something like http://www.collection.archivist.info/archive/mirror/Meca/1.JPG
[13:45:59] <Einar> The top part looks like part from an old vehicle worm+sector steering.
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[13:55:37] <XXCoder> omg freenode is back
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[14:50:25] -!- mode/#linuxcnc [-o Jymmm] by Jymmm
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[14:58:39] <miss0r> was it ever gone?
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[14:59:11] <XXCoder> it seemed like central server was down
[14:59:19] <XXCoder> so if you was already on you'd have stayed on
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[15:00:10] <XXCoder> or if you had specific irc server like whatever.freenode.net intread of main server at freenode.net it'd stll work
[15:02:12] <Jymmm> IT's called a netsplit
[15:02:32] <XXCoder> Jymmm: nah its different, I could connect to main server then it disconnects me
[15:02:47] <Jymmm> IT didn't like you
[15:02:55] <XXCoder> someone was ddos-ing main server so it couldnt move people to one of node servers
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[15:43:50] <Deejay> re
[15:44:40] <Jymmm> Deejay: You're REALLY late, or REALLY early =)
[15:44:56] <Deejay> hrhr
[15:45:01] <Deejay> hi jymmm
[15:45:06] <Jymmm> how goes
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[16:09:57] <Connor> xc,m7bbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbb.
[16:10:19] <archivist> and a half
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[16:13:04] <shaun413> Hm
[16:13:06] <shaun413> Conor
[16:13:15] <shaun413> What mini lathe did you say was good??
[16:13:45] <shaun413> Lms or microlux
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[16:15:09] <archivist> shaun413, it gets boring asking the same/similar question daily
[16:15:31] <GuShH_> lol
[16:15:35] <GuShH_> dejavu
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[16:16:05] <GuShH_> shaun413: do you even know what you want?
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[16:16:26] <GuShH_> it might be your birthday but I'm not going to be any nicer.
[16:16:55] <shaun413> Yes
[16:16:58] <shaun413> Ol
[16:17:12] <Jymmm> GuShH_: For 50¢, will you be meaner?
[16:17:14] <archivist> I asked for a welder for my 21st, got it but could not use it, got a job as a trainee welder
[16:17:17] -!- pjm_ has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
[16:17:25] <GuShH_> will I!
[16:17:48] <shaun413> I want something small
[16:17:59] <shaun413> I want a decent 7x12 size
[16:18:06] <GuShH_> I'll just head back in time and buy me a house, still have spare change for a car and a bimbo.
[16:18:28] <GuShH_> shaun413: try some of those pills they advertise on spam
[16:18:39] <shaun413> :/
[16:18:41] <Jymmm> GuShH_: If you get the bimbo, you won't be able to afford the house/car/food =)
[16:18:48] <GuShH_> for a solid 12 incher
[16:18:59] <XXCoder> shaun413: http://woodlandantics.wordpress.com/2010/07/10/how-small-is-your-lathe/
[16:19:00] <shaun413> ...
[16:19:01] <GuShH_> Jymmm: oh it's the 20s... you can buy everything with 50 cents.
[16:19:07] <XXCoder> you can fit 100 of those in your apt
[16:19:18] <MrHindsight> if you need an output to toggle many times synchronized to motion what's a good way to do it? M62 and M63 require motion right after in order to flip states. M64 and M65 break blending.
[16:19:23] <Jymmm> GuShH_: heh
[16:19:49] <shaun413> Lol
[16:20:06] <shaun413> I think lms is nice
[16:20:09] <shaun413> Agreed?
[16:20:12] <GuShH_> no
[16:20:17] <GuShH_> it's the same HF shit
[16:20:17] <shaun413> Why
[16:20:23] <shaun413> So just get hf
[16:20:27] <GuShH_> they come from the same factory, maybe different quality per order
[16:20:37] <shaun413> Sherline is usa
[16:20:49] <GuShH_> sherline is bs on a stick.
[16:20:51] <shaun413> But smaller
[16:20:58] <archivist> too small
[16:20:58] <GuShH_> it's not even a full lathe.
[16:21:03] <shaun413> So what's good
[16:21:05] <MrHindsight> let's say I want a digital output to change states every 4 steps or based on some regular interval based on encoder position
[16:21:07] <shaun413> That I can buy new
[16:21:13] <GuShH_> why new?
[16:21:17] <GuShH_> it will require fitting anyway
[16:21:30] <shaun413> I don't want to mess with old stuff
[16:21:39] <GuShH_> you'll have to mess with the new stuff just as much
[16:21:44] <archivist> cheap new is hf quality
[16:21:50] <XXCoder> http://www.csparks.com/watchmaking/Lathes.html some good ones, and couple small ancient ones
[16:21:51] <GuShH_> old is better
[16:21:58] <shaun413> Hm
[16:22:50] <shaun413> I don't have room for something huge
[16:22:59] <GuShH_> shaun413: there are a lot of good used lathes in your region... not the case for me, I could never find a complete one.
[16:23:11] <GuShH_> they're not huge, those old craftsman were BENCH lathes.
[16:23:18] <shaun413> Hmm
[16:23:22] <GuShH_> possibly some logans and whatnot also small in size.
[16:23:34] <GuShH_> again, get something as complete as possible, with a gearbox.
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[16:23:53] * GuShH_ sighs
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[16:24:15] <XXCoder> think this can fit? heh http://www.lathes.co.uk/deutschlanddortmund2/img15.jpg
[16:24:19] <shaun413> :/
[16:24:38] <shaun413> A bit too big
[16:24:43] <GuShH_> that's smaller than the biggest one I found locally
[16:24:56] <shaun413> :/
[16:24:56] <GuShH_> but still, do want.
[16:25:02] <shaun413> So the atlas
[16:25:06] <shaun413> Is that a good machine
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[16:25:31] <GuShH_> that's probably a 40 ton lathe if my eye doesn't suck today
[16:25:37] <shaun413> No
[16:25:42] <GuShH_> the one in the picture.
[16:25:51] <Loetmichel> GuShH_: harhar
[16:25:59] <Loetmichel> (the dog)
[16:26:23] <Loetmichel> no, my small "scooter size" motorcycle is just for commuting to work
[16:26:42] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=14283
[16:26:51] <Loetmichel> its just a 50cc 2 stroke
[16:26:55] <Loetmichel> water cooled
[16:27:06] <Loetmichel> and runs MUCH faster than allowed in germany
[16:27:21] <shaun413> http://allentown.craigslist.org/tls/4416179438.html
[16:27:39] <Loetmichel> even with the new (correct) chain kit
[16:27:40] <GuShH_> shaun413: no quick change gearbox
[16:27:48] <shaun413> Oh
[16:28:00] <GuShH_> shaun413: means every time you want to change feeds you spend 10 minutes fiddling with gears, assuming you have them.
[16:28:51] <Loetmichel> GuShH_: so what? whre is the problem to fit a stepper to the leadscrew and a quadrature sensor to the main spindle?
[16:28:54] <GuShH_> not only do you have to set the right gears, also their meshing gap (surely there's a proper name for this) so they engage properly
[16:29:01] <Loetmichel> (and some electronics)
[16:29:03] <GuShH_> Loetmichel: we're talking about Shaun
[16:29:16] <Loetmichel> ok, granted, THAT will be a problem ;-)
[16:29:24] <GuShH_> Loetmichel: fyi that model had an optional quick change gear box.. already told him this the other day
[16:29:36] <Loetmichel> ah, i see
[16:29:42] <GuShH_> if you can find the old catalogs they show the optionals
[16:30:17] <Loetmichel> my (bigger) lahe has that gear change problem also
[16:30:21] <GuShH_> shaun413: ask someone with a lathe if they'll let you use it...
[16:30:42] <Loetmichel> have a BUCH of gears, still only metric threads possible
[16:31:05] <Loetmichel> as soon as i have fitted the new 3 phase motor i will address that problem ;-)
[16:31:19] <GuShH_> mine is "half norton" meaning you get about 9 positions on the given A and B gears, but you still have to change them manually, it's just nice having that range... in fact for metric threading I get most pitches within those 9 positions
[16:31:33] <GuShH_> Loetmichel: pfft I'm fitting mine first with a 3 phase and a vfd!
[16:31:40] * GuShH_ frowns
[16:31:49] <shaun413> I've used one
[16:31:57] <GuShH_> doesn't show
[16:32:20] <Loetmichel> GuShH_: sure wiht vfd
[16:32:29] <Loetmichel> but the original motor was buned down
[16:32:39] <Loetmichel> thats why i got that lathe for free
[16:32:45] <shaun413> http://m.ebay.com/itm?itemId=360858256309
[16:32:50] <shaun413> What about this
[16:32:53] <Loetmichel> (paid 200 eur for the gears and the tools and holders... )
[16:33:10] <GuShH_> shaun413: anyway that southbend you won't be able to pick it up yourself, I bet I can lift it but I see you as a skinny little boy, like Morty from Rick and Morty.
[16:33:15] * GuShH_ rofls
[16:33:17] <Loetmichel> shaun413: if you have a place for it...
[16:33:24] <Jymmm> Here's a nice inexpensive, compact lathe/mill... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A_qHR_H_2cg
[16:33:32] <Loetmichel> ... DONT buy it, rent the place to someone who can use it ;-)
[16:33:43] <GuShH_> shaun413: ohh that's giving me a stiffy
[16:34:11] <XXCoder> longer, thicker, harder. :P
[16:34:13] <shaun413> Lol
[16:34:27] <Loetmichel> Jymmm: harhar
[16:34:41] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: Wut?
[16:34:44] <GuShH_> moving that thing, even in parts.. must be hell.
[16:34:45] <Loetmichel> (cleainung up the drool from the desk)
[16:34:57] <shaun413> Jymmm
[16:35:00] <shaun413> What's your take
[16:35:15] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: (Yeah, the best cnc porn out there)
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[16:35:57] <GuShH_> whaha that's a bit expensive for a used china job http://allentown.craigslist.org/tls/4420015309.html
[16:36:11] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: Well, there is the "John Holmes/Ron Jeremy" too, but that's just too much cnc porn for this crowd
[16:36:29] <GuShH_> ron.. that ugly bastard.
[16:36:53] <Jymmm> GuShH_: Ugly, maybe. But he's a really nice guy actually.
[16:37:04] <GuShH_> how could I know.
[16:37:14] <Deejay> machine pr0n!
[16:37:17] <Deejay> nice video
[16:37:21] <Jymmm> GuShH_: Not my problem you're a prude =)
[16:37:29] <GuShH_> o.o
[16:37:29] <shaun413_> Jymmm what's the best SMALL lathe
[16:37:37] <GuShH_> one you can afford
[16:37:40] <GuShH_> and use
[16:38:18] <GuShH_> shaun413: ask again and I will somehow manage to get medieval on yo arse.
[16:39:03] <archivist> there is no "best", there is the "right tool for the job"
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[16:42:08] <GuShH_> archivist: what are the chances of the vertical head not being siezed up in rust? http://i.imgur.com/wX7dPua.jpg
[16:42:14] <Loetmichel> Jymmm: made my own trad on a chinese mill lately.
[16:42:27] <Loetmichel> really surprised that that worked like a charm:
[16:42:29] <GuShH_> they threw it under there with an endmill stuck to a collet, it's all evenly rusted...
[16:42:40] <GuShH_> I bet it doesn't even turn
[16:42:42] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=14820&g2_imageViewsIndex=1
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[16:43:36] <archivist> GuShH_, that looks ok for a clean up, wont be perfect but good and solid, aany pics of thee vertical?
[16:43:45] <Loetmichel> ... with a 60° engraving bit
[16:43:50] <GuShH_> no, but you can see it on the knee
[16:44:08] <GuShH_> it's a small head
[16:44:10] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: "trad" ?
[16:44:13] <GuShH_> thread
[16:44:13] <shaun413> Hm
[16:44:14] <Loetmichel> thread
[16:44:17] <shaun413> Well gushh
[16:44:17] <Jymmm> oh
[16:44:30] <GuShH_> looks like a nice threading job
[16:44:36] <Loetmichel> M16*2
[16:44:40] <GuShH_> no binding?
[16:44:47] <Loetmichel> binding?
[16:44:56] <GuShH_> does it get stuck in some portion of the travel
[16:45:02] <shaun413> So you don't think the little machine shop lathe looks good???
[16:45:03] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: al ?
[16:45:10] <Loetmichel> 7075
[16:45:11] <GuShH_> looks like aluminum to me
[16:45:21] <GuShH_> shaun413: it doesn't matter how it looks
[16:45:29] <shaun413> Does it work good
[16:45:31] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: why al?
[16:45:46] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: as a test?
[16:45:46] <archivist> GuShH_, with any luck that is just on the outside, the main problem is likely the tapers, is the price right though
[16:45:48] <shaun413> Gingery is aluminum
[16:45:53] <shaun413> People use those
[16:45:59] <Loetmichel> because its the outer shell for one of these Power knobs:
[16:46:13] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=11570
[16:46:19] <Loetmichel> and there is no steel needed
[16:46:22] <GuShH_> I found another one but with a smaller table, for slightly less money... the other one is in very good condition because they use it at the shop
[16:46:35] <GuShH_> this one is clearly gathering surface rust waiting for a buyer
[16:46:41] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: ah
[16:46:45] <Loetmichel> it will be screwed in the back of this:
[16:46:53] <GuShH_> why won't these machine reselling dipshits spray some oil on them, at least?
[16:46:59] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=14769
[16:47:09] <Loetmichel> to operate the power swirtch there
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[16:47:36] <Loetmichel> you see the treaded hole whre it will go?
[16:47:53] <GuShH_> I see a hole
[16:48:55] <Loetmichel> let pic, middle of the rear wall, down about 30mm above the bottom
[16:48:59] <Loetmichel> left
[16:48:59] <GuShH_> archivist: I take it those vertical heads have no tilting capabilities, ie. they're non adjustable? (never been near this particular machine)
[16:49:00] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: rack mount what?
[16:49:09] <Loetmichel> ex-rack-mount
[16:49:18] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: ok, what is it now?
[16:49:20] <Loetmichel> now shielded crypto box
[16:49:32] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: elaborate?
[16:49:42] <Loetmichel> no, customers order
[16:49:45] <Loetmichel> 2 pieces
[16:49:49] <archivist> GuShH_, what is the make?
[16:49:55] <GuShH_> it's local
[16:50:00] <GuShH_> back from when we had industries.
[16:50:02] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: I can't read the lettering on the boxes
[16:50:02] <Loetmichel> and i am working on this for 4 weeks now
[16:50:54] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: The two slimmer boxes look to have IR ports ont eh front,
[16:51:19] <archivist> GuShH_, I wanted to see other pics from the way that machine looks I expect universal
[16:51:29] <GuShH_> it is a universal
[16:51:37] <Loetmichel> no ir ports
[16:51:38] <Loetmichel> http://www.safenet-inc.com/products/data-protection/hardware-security-modules/luna-sa/
[16:51:47] <Loetmichel> one of these and three backup boxes
[16:52:03] <GuShH_> no info anywhere, but I'm finding pics from other machines being sold
[16:52:06] <archivist> GuShH_, is the makers name here http://www.lathes.co.uk/page21.html
[16:52:44] <GuShH_> Nope
[16:52:52] <GuShH_> I can't find any names from Argentina
[16:53:07] <GuShH_> well just one, wecheco, but that's not a wecheco.
[16:53:20] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: Heh, not shielded enough imo
[16:53:20] <GuShH_> the 3 I found are not them.
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[16:53:51] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: If you want shielding let me know =)
[16:53:56] <GuShH_> actually the 3 listed brands are copycat crap brands
[16:54:00] <Loetmichel> Jymmm: i dont think so
[16:54:07] <Loetmichel> we do shielding all the time
[16:54:15] <Loetmichel> i think we know what we do ;-)
[16:54:23] <GuShH_> except for wecheco, which were the only ones doing real machinery, lately they've been importing china jobs though, might not even be the same company.
[16:54:26] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: Ok, let ME test it then =)
[16:54:44] <GuShH_> http://www.lathes.co.uk/boffelli%26finazzi/ that looks like a fine copy though
[16:54:53] <Loetmichel> we can certify to german zone and nato Sdip 27
[16:54:59] <Loetmichel> we test it ourselves ;-)
[16:55:04] <shaun413> Not much an ebay
[16:55:05] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: fuck certifications =)
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[16:55:35] <archivist> GuShH_, could be a local copy of some other make with a few changes
[16:55:39] <GuShH_> archivist: the brand of these universal mills is "el cantabrico" should be cantbrico and I found no information whatsoever online.
[16:55:47] <GuShH_> most likely
[16:55:51] <shaun413> :/
[16:56:21] <GuShH_> same model, different machine, front view: http://i.imgur.com/vLpBcgT.jpg
[16:56:44] <archivist> if it is close to scrap price I would risk buying it as machines can be got going again
[16:57:03] <GuShH_> nothing is ever close to scrap price here
[16:57:08] <shaun413> Gushhh
[16:57:27] <shaun413> What brands am.I looking for
[16:58:10] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: I did environmental testing for countermeasure systems, let me have some fun again =)
[16:58:26] <archivist> first decide what you are going to make so you get a machine that can make it
[16:58:44] <Loetmichel> Jymmm: i wouldn call taht "fun
[16:58:53] <shaun413> I know what I'm going to make
[16:58:57] <Loetmichel> especially when i am done with such a system
[16:58:58] <shaun413> Small.parts
[16:59:01] <shaun413> Nothing large
[16:59:30] <archivist> GuShH_, ball park price?
[16:59:40] <Loetmichel> the last time the german authority (BSI) got one of my machines they thought their antenna cables were broken ;-)
[16:59:57] <Loetmichel> no signal at all ;-)
[17:00:33] <GuShH_> archivist: they're around 1k here
[17:00:46] <Loetmichel> and yeah, the window of the keypad and the window in the front are galss with 0,02mm grid copper mess in it ;)
[17:00:51] <GuShH_> in rusty "as is" condition
[17:01:02] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: explosions are always fun, think 4th of July all year long =)
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[17:01:06] <GuShH_> with just the small vise
[17:01:25] <Loetmichel> explosions?
[17:01:37] <archivist> GuShH_, an example of rusted to shiny http://www.collection.archivist.info/searchv13.php?searchstr=barber+colman
[17:01:47] <Loetmichel> thats no rugged stuff, just shielded
[17:01:57] <GuShH_> archivist: I know it'll clean up, not concerned about the looks... more about the internal state
[17:02:06] <GuShH_> play and wear
[17:02:15] <shaun413> I love making rusty things shiny
[17:02:22] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: Yeah, gassified cesium doesn't like humidity too well =)
[17:02:24] <GuShH_> you do....
[17:02:27] <GuShH_> ?
[17:02:36] <archivist> so it rattles a bit, still better than imported new :)
[17:02:36] <shaun413> Yes I do
[17:02:45] <shaun413> Lots of fun
[17:02:48] -!- i_tarzan has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
[17:03:22] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: Is that a thumbdrive plugged into the right side of the "drawer" ?
[17:03:28] <GuShH_> no doubt, I'm not buying a chinese mill.
[17:03:29] <Loetmichel> it is
[17:03:35] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: k
[17:03:39] <archivist> the original oil may have kept the innerds in good shape
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[17:03:57] <GuShH_> the vertical head has an oiling port, that's all I know. but you can't tilt it from the looks of it
[17:04:06] <shaun413> So gushh
[17:04:14] <shaun413> South bend hardingem
[17:04:14] <Loetmichel> Jymmm: ... with the approbiate shielding cap ;-)
[17:04:21] <shaun413> What another brands
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[17:04:25] <shaun413> Specific models
[17:04:26] <archivist> GuShH_, I think I see a tilt in the middle
[17:04:26] <GuShH_> http://i.imgur.com/5E08b9w.jpg
[17:04:35] <GuShH_> maybe!
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[17:04:44] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: I was mre looking at it's physical support or lack there of.
[17:04:48] <shaun413> I'll shine that right up
[17:05:08] <GuShH_> shaun413: for a nickel?
[17:05:09] <archivist> GuShH_, that second pic tilts
[17:05:11] <XXCoder> quick stupid question, what is best tool for ensuring squareness?
[17:05:18] <Loetmichel> the drawer sits on 2 real drawer ball bearing slides
[17:05:22] <GuShH_> not a very sturdy head
[17:05:29] <Loetmichel> and clicks in on closed
[17:05:30] <shaun413> For 10
[17:05:44] <Jymmm> XXCoder: a straight line
[17:05:46] <GuShH_> shaun413: I actually wouldn't touch that, looks OK it's just dirty.
[17:06:14] <XXCoder> to dermine 90 degrees?
[17:06:20] <shaun413> Hmm
[17:06:27] <Loetmichel> Jymmm: http://www.ebay.de/itm/300694232564?var=600041510310
[17:06:30] <Loetmichel> theses
[17:06:55] <Jymmm> XXCoder: Measure the corners diagonally
[17:07:01] <Loetmichel> so you can push it in, it will move 10mm out, then ypu can pull it out and wivel it down
[17:07:04] <Loetmichel> swivel
[17:07:36] <shaun413> Hmm
[17:07:43] <GuShH_> crappy restoration job http://pachiencordoba.com.ar/fresadora2.png seems that one didn't have the power feed optional
[17:08:05] <GuShH_> that's not a restoration that's a facelift "let's paint it and take a picture" seen so many I lost count.
[17:08:07] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: Not the panel, just the thumbdrive's lack of support
[17:08:14] <GuShH_> spray can + camera
[17:08:14] <Loetmichel> ah
[17:08:26] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: creep out, bowed/flex downward, etc
[17:08:37] <Loetmichel> its simply plugged in the usb block inside the aluminium block
[17:08:46] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: it's still cheap USB socket stuff with no locking mech.
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[17:09:06] <Loetmichel> the port is for copying keys to/from the box iirc
[17:09:21] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: Yeah, I figured as much.
[17:09:24] <Loetmichel> so it wont be used while transport
[17:09:52] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: I just have pref to uSD
[17:09:59] <Jymmm> waterproof too
[17:10:02] <GuShH_> shaun413: so Shaun, how many pennies to clean this one up? http://i.imgur.com/zkr1waY.jpg
[17:10:31] <shaun413> Few million
[17:10:41] <GuShH_> not gonna happen.
[17:11:00] <GuShH_> I'll give you half a coke and 2 hotdogs maybe.
[17:11:10] <shaun413> OK deal
[17:11:17] <shaun413> Ship it
[17:11:41] <GuShH_> It's like 200 bucks just to ship it to my place, you want me to ship it all the way to the US? you nuts!
[17:11:58] <shaun413> Pay for MW to come then
[17:12:01] <GuShH_> you could just get a bridgeport with that money I bet
[17:12:08] <shaun413> Yeah
[17:12:15] <GuShH_> not here.
[17:12:21] <GuShH_> 9k or so for one
[17:12:21] <shaun413> But no hot dogs
[17:13:03] <shaun413> How do you restore rusty metal
[17:13:11] <shaun413> I have an old hand drill
[17:13:14] <GuShH_> iron or steel?
[17:13:16] <shaun413> In want to restore
[17:13:24] <Loetmichel> soap and current
[17:13:25] <shaun413> Idk what it is
[17:13:38] <GuShH_> electrolytic rust removal, mechanical or fully chemical removal... depends.
[17:13:41] <shaun413> Not really rusty.. Just black
[17:13:44] <shaun413> And ugly
[17:13:47] <GuShH_> black oxide is fine
[17:13:52] <XXCoder> homebrew cnc lathe https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z94ObRviC40
[17:13:55] <shaun413> I want to get it off
[17:14:00] <GuShH_> why
[17:14:04] <GuShH_> let's see it?
[17:14:10] <shaun413> To display it
[17:14:19] <GuShH_> black oxide is nice.
[17:14:20] <shaun413> Sure , let me take a pic.
[17:14:31] -!- zeeshan [zeeshan!~kvirc@S01060018e7cea342.hm.shawcable.net] has joined #linuxcnc
[17:16:53] <XXCoder> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yzbf0BS3eUU homemade tiny lathe
[17:16:56] <shaun413> http://imgur.com/mDYJsV7
[17:17:22] <XXCoder> parts of it was made from 8020
[17:17:32] <GuShH_> cute
[17:17:49] <GuShH_> shaun413: looks fine as-is
[17:17:55] <GuShH_> I wouldn't touch it
[17:18:15] <shaun413> I want to make it pretty
[17:18:16] <GuShH_> that was most likely black paint on the cast iron
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[17:18:56] -!- IchGuckLive [IchGuckLive!~chatzilla@95-89-102-56-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #linuxcnc
[17:18:57] <GuShH_> you know what's worse than no restoration, a bad restoration.
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[17:19:01] <IchGuckLive> hi all B)
[17:19:04] <XXCoder> project pahe http://fredsena.com/mini-lathe-home-made/
[17:19:13] <XXCoder> definitely cool
[17:20:08] <zeeshan> i like how the machine
[17:20:17] <zeeshan> and the workpiece vibrates
[17:20:21] <zeeshan> asap he touches it with a tool :P
[17:20:28] <GuShH_> it's off center
[17:20:34] <XXCoder> yeah its not exactly high precision
[17:20:46] <GuShH_> artsy lathe
[17:20:55] <zeeshan> https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=yzbf0BS3eUU#t=64
[17:20:56] <zeeshan> :P
[17:20:59] <GuShH_> it's a wood lathe, as it stands
[17:21:03] <IchGuckLive> a lathe to make parts shoudt not get mini in name
[17:22:16] <GuShH_> shaun413: a bit of oil is all that thing needs.
[17:22:23] <XXCoder> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M6svZzTBIeM
[17:23:18] <archivist> badly made hand tool, wrong shape for hand turning, google for graver hand turning
[17:26:26] <archivist> watchmaking vid has correct graver shape
[17:27:49] <GuShH_> I don't have the patience for that...
[17:27:53] <GuShH_> I would throw it all out the window.
[17:28:12] <XXCoder> me either
[17:28:56] <GuShH_> at least they don't spend much in metal stock
[17:28:58] <archivist> I prefer a motor and a stereo zoom microscope
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[17:30:41] <zeeshan> is a 'record' vise
[17:30:50] <zeeshan> some special brand name vise from back in the day|
[17:31:09] <archivist> yes they were made in Sheffield
[17:31:17] <zeeshan> http://www.kijiji.ca/v-hand-tool/london/6-record-n6-vise/499242530?enableSearchNavigationFlag=true
[17:31:20] <zeeshan> looks like its in rough shape
[17:31:24] <zeeshan> but i can bead blast it
[17:31:28] <GuShH_> heh talk about bench vises these days... boy are they CRAP
[17:31:30] <zeeshan> and repowder coat it
[17:31:34] <archivist> Irwin now own them so now likely chinese
[17:31:41] <zeeshan> http://www.kijiji.ca/v-hand-tool/hamilton/record-112-steel-qr-6-bench-vise-england-heavy-duty-vice/554026963?enableSearchNavigationFlag=true
[17:31:49] <GuShH_> you might have to do something with the jaws
[17:31:52] <zeeshan> a better condition one, but theres no way im payng 400$ for a frigging vise.
[17:32:03] <zeeshan> gush i'd prolly make soft jaws for it
[17:32:08] <zeeshan> like copper or aluminum
[17:32:10] <archivist> needs new jaws
[17:32:18] <zeeshan> i broke my 4" vise a couple days ago
[17:32:46] <zeeshan> http://www.kijiji.ca/v-hand-tool/brantford/vise/580577085?enableSearchNavigationFlag=true
[17:32:48] <archivist> that is in very poor condition
[17:32:50] <zeeshan> this one is in better condition
[17:32:55] <zeeshan> but only 4.5"
[17:32:58] <GuShH_> hrm
[17:33:09] <GuShH_> even the local brands here are now all china jobs
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[17:33:25] <archivist> that 4.5 is ok
[17:33:58] <GuShH_> why are the jaws to narrow?
[17:34:21] <zeeshan> no idea :P
[17:34:38] <GuShH_> such nice casting, compare it to the crap they sell today
[17:34:47] <archivist> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Record-No-3-engineers-vice-/131154280735
[17:35:09] <zeeshan> so they typicvally go for 100$ canadian
[17:35:12] <zeeshan> so thats a pretty decent deal
[17:37:35] <archivist> there are hundreds or Records on the UK ebay about 60% the woodworking vices they made
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[17:38:07] <zeeshan> archivist: how far are you from luton
[17:38:23] <archivist> 100 miles
[17:38:29] <zeeshan> aw ;p
[17:38:39] <zeeshan> my sister is gonna visit me end of this summer prolly
[17:38:44] <zeeshan> i should get her to bring me some tools!
[17:39:18] <archivist> my brother has just driven past Luton if that is any help :)
[17:39:33] <zeeshan> hehe
[17:39:48] <archivist> he dropped in today and going back to London
[17:39:56] <zeeshan> shes a doc at luton & dunstable hospital
[17:40:52] <archivist> I am in the east midlands
[17:41:45] <zeeshan> when i look at a map of uk i get confuwsed
[17:41:48] <zeeshan> so many damn cities
[17:41:50] <Jymmm> Pocket Lathe... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SMhbRPqwfa0
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[17:43:27] <archivist> I am south of Derby near Burton
[17:44:45] <archivist> hmm not too far http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/VINTAGE-RECORD-No-84-4-5-112mm-QUICK-RELEASE-ENGINEER-MECHANIC-BENCH-VICE-/171299141700
[17:45:56] <zeeshan> damn thats a gorgeous vise
[17:46:03] <zeeshan> not even cast
[17:49:09] <archivist> you should be able to find plenty reasonable ones over there
[17:50:45] <archivist> never force this model the bars bend http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Irwin-Record-V75B-Table-Vice-3in-Boxed-/231009568915
[17:51:09] <XXCoder> man some people is crazy https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gE5KQ7PqO9k&feature=youtu.be
[17:51:12] <archivist> but smooth jaws on mine good for model tinware
[17:53:35] <XXCoder> meh thats small ;) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XHHwdqTVo2w
[17:56:59] <XXCoder> funny thing initally it looks normal sized https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HQDiaIVbcOY
[17:57:35] <archivist> B- for the steps for the human toolchanger
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[17:58:24] <archivist> an no way it is the worlds biggest multi axis cnc
[17:58:39] <XXCoder> some says its longest not largest
[17:58:45] <XXCoder> longest I can see, its freakin long
[18:01:01] <MrHindsight> who can we get to sponsor building the worlds largest CNC machine?
[18:01:14] <XXCoder> some billionaire I guess
[18:01:28] <XXCoder> make it size of football field
[18:01:48] <XXCoder> length, girth width of field lol
[18:02:11] <XXCoder> probably would have to have rolling cranes to place stock
[18:02:24] <MrHindsight> modify a bridge with a giant spindle
[18:03:00] <archivist> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YAVsfxa6kM4 is not small
[18:04:24] <XXCoder> cnc router is easier to make bigger
[18:04:26] <MrHindsight> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/16/Bruecke_Karnin.jpg
[18:04:56] <XXCoder> heck you can make one that could mill out building out of block of concerte fairly easily lol
[18:05:13] <XXCoder> mr indeed that could be converted I bet
[18:05:53] <GuShH_> MrHindsight: is that the new reprap?
[18:06:21] <XXCoder> lol it could be made into huge reprap too
[18:06:35] <XXCoder> just add print head and moving platform on that platform
[18:07:00] <XXCoder> make it use foot thick pleastic spidle ;)
[18:07:04] <XXCoder> print out a house
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[18:09:15] <MrHindsight> http://i.space.com/images/i/000/012/238/i02/nasa-mobile-launcher-complete.jpg?1316436424
[18:09:21] <MrHindsight> says it's mobile
[18:10:46] <MrHindsight> I setup a kickstarter :)
[18:10:54] * GuShH_ stabs MrHindsight
[18:11:02] <XXCoder> I wonder if its possible to make "cnc" thats mobile platform so it could go inside very large material to remove more material
[18:11:20] <XXCoder> so it would have to have high precision wheels and such lol
[18:11:30] <MrHindsight> sure, live tooling on the end of an arm
[18:12:04] <MrHindsight> use lasers and reference points to calibrate and align the cutting heads
[18:12:25] <XXCoder> stock would have to be insanely large and complex interior to be worth it lol
[18:12:32] <GuShH_> boo I woke up too early and I think I've got what I can only describe as jet lag now...
[18:12:55] <MrHindsight> GuShH_: you get used to it
[18:13:27] <GuShH_> cortisol says "go to sleep"
[18:13:38] <GuShH_> low levels of, that is.
[18:13:49] <MrHindsight> I think the older you get the easier it is
[18:14:22] <MrHindsight> I used to feel nausea if up too long or up too early, now I hardly notice
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[18:16:19] <gene79> cmorely, are you about?
[18:16:41] -!- NickParker [NickParker!~kvirc@c-24-6-139-68.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #linuxcnc
[18:16:46] NickParker is now known as NickParker2
[18:16:52] NickParker2 is now known as NickParker
[18:16:57] <gene79> might help if I spell it right, its cmorley! My bad
[18:17:28] <MrHindsight> wait until you have kids, you forget about getting any rest
[18:18:18] <gene79> Until they've been out on their own for 30+ years
[18:18:45] <gene79> And even then its spotty
[18:19:01] <GuShH_> me? kids? hahaha
[18:19:20] <gene79> Do you need lessons? :)
[18:19:39] <GuShH_> buy me a drink first.
[18:19:41] <MrHindsight> rent before you buy
[18:20:07] <gene79> all I ever had to do was hang my pants on the floor.
[18:20:41] <gene79> but that was a long time ago, damned near can't remember it now.
[18:23:32] <archivist> read the brochures, cheaper than renting
[18:23:54] -!- nylar [nylar!~nylar@unaffiliated/nylar] has joined #linuxcnc
[18:24:50] <MrHindsight> here we go again, China post 4-02, in Chicago 4-07, now in Nashua, NH, probably back to Chicago by 4-15, stinking USPS
[18:25:05] <GuShH_> round and round and round it goes
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[18:25:38] <MrHindsight> my packages spend more bouncing around US post offices then from China to the US
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[18:29:18] <GuShH_> "my packages spend more time bouncing around than I do in bed"
[18:29:29] <Groguard> Has anyone used the amico end mills, are they an good?
[18:29:31] <PetefromTn_> Hey guys...
[18:29:46] <PetefromTn_> trying to get the BEST finish I can from this flycutter I have here.
[18:29:52] <PetefromTn_> In 6061.
[18:30:00] <GuShH_> PetefromTn_: hone your tool
[18:30:12] <PetefromTn_> It is an insert lathe tool.
[18:30:17] <GuShH_> hss?
[18:30:18] <GuShH_> oh
[18:30:19] <GuShH_> carbide
[18:30:23] <PetefromTn_> yeah carbide.
[18:30:25] <GuShH_> good luck.
[18:30:38] <GuShH_> I would use hss with a finely honed cutting surface.
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[18:31:18] <PetefromTn_> Right now the BEST I have gotten was with about a 3.5 inch diameter cut and .010 depth of cut at 18 IPM and 2200 RPM
[18:31:26] <GuShH_> is the tool even meant to act as a flycutter?
[18:31:32] <GuShH_> due to the angle involved
[18:31:36] <PetefromTn_> I considered installing a 5/8 lathe toolbit in it.
[18:31:45] <PetefromTn_> LOL probably not.
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[18:32:05] <GuShH_> I watched a video on this not long ago, I was considering making a flycutter
[18:32:37] <GuShH_> the difference between freshly ground and honed is very noticeable
[18:32:43] <PetefromTn_> at work they have some Seco OCtomills and they make a MIRROR finish but I don't have the coin so the fly cutter is the best I can do right now.
[18:32:57] <GuShH_> I noticed on the lathe yesterday
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[18:33:37] <Groguard> Has anyone used the amico end mills, are they any good?
[18:33:54] -!- somenewguy has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
[18:34:16] -!- gene79 has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
[18:35:08] <GuShH_> can't find the video, don't remember the author..
[18:35:13] -!- dybskiy has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds]
[18:35:28] <GuShH_> but he's in the youtube "machinist" circle
[18:35:52] <somenewguy_bu> so a home ground HSS flycuttter will give better alu finish than a carbide insert?
[18:36:05] <GuShH_> a carbide insert NOT MEANT for flycutting, I bet.
[18:36:52] <somenewguy_bu> they seem to make inserts in any and all styles, so i figured tehre was a big radius tool out there, but i still don't even own a flycutter so i got no idea
[18:36:53] <MrHindsight> I picked up a $40 set of lathe carbide tools for fly cutting
[18:37:11] <somenewguy_bu> neeed to gear down my motor b efore I can even try it sooo
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[18:37:39] <GuShH_> it "might" be this one https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tCrJVYF95aE
[18:38:16] * GuShH_ pouts at the nice kurt vise
[18:39:22] <GuShH_> I usually just touch the hss on the wheel and put it back on the lathe, without realizing how much of a difference it makes to hone the edges.
[18:40:03] <MrHindsight> http://www.shars.com/files/products/catalog2013B/page58.pdf http://www.shars.com/products/view/3396/38quot_Carbide_Tipped_Tool_Bit_Set
[18:40:12] <somenewguy_bu> http://www.cnccookbook.com/CCFlyCutter.html everythin i know about flycutters, and my tyring to justify a boring head casue it would work for me lol
[18:40:30] <somenewguy_bu> what do you mean when you say hone the edge? I have been googling it since it was first mentioned and I keep not finding exactly what you mean
[18:40:41] <GuShH_> those cutters from the video are very nice.
[18:40:59] <GuShH_> somenewguy_bu: honing with a stone
[18:41:24] <shaun413> Hi
[18:41:25] <GuShH_> I use a water stone, no idea about the grit size but it's the finest one I have and I use it for my knives.
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[18:42:40] <somenewguy_bu> oh ok
[18:42:43] <GuShH_> at minute 17 or so he begins to hone the tool.
[18:42:55] <somenewguy_bu> that what I thought but wanted to make sure
[18:43:33] <GuShH_> the previous video shows the same technique but on lathe tools, which is what I compared myself and sure enough, honing does make a huge difference in surface finish
[18:43:59] <GuShH_> it does take much longer than just regrinding the edge though
[18:44:41] * GuShH_ felt bad for the stone as he kept honing on the same place every single time
[18:44:56] <GuShH_> but maybe he had a high spot there :P
[18:45:22] <MrHindsight> honing is similar to surface grinding, the finish should be similar
[18:45:50] <GuShH_> it's a much finer grit than your average bench grinder stone, which is what most people use
[18:45:57] <GuShH_> but you are taking away the rough spots
[18:46:08] <GuShH_> in all fairness you would use multiple stones
[18:46:34] <PetefromTn_> well apparently the cemented carbide lathe tool with a hand ground edge is FAR superior to THIS particular insert cutter for flycutting purposes.
[18:46:56] <GuShH_> superior how?
[18:47:07] <PetefromTn_> surface finish.
[18:47:16] <GuShH_> doesn't seem to be the case
[18:47:33] <PetefromTn_> it is the case here...
[18:48:07] <GuShH_> you were complaining about the surface finish
[18:48:30] <PetefromTn_> yeah..
[18:48:49] <GuShH_> I remember reading about inserts... then brazed ("cemented")
[18:48:58] <GuShH_> different beasts
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[18:49:55] <PetefromTn_> yeah and what I am saying is that the finish I was getting with a screw in carbide lathe tool insert is NOT as good as this hand ground cemented carbide lathe toolbit I grabbed from my lathe tools just now and tried.
[18:50:23] <GuShH_> makes sense
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[18:50:37] <PetefromTn_> Only bummer is that it needs to spin backwards compared to the other tool.
[18:51:08] <PetefromTn_> So If I intend to keep it setup that way I gotta remember to spin it the right direction. I am gonna mark the body of the toolholder with the specs.
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[18:52:57] * GuShH_ keeps his brazed tools for steels and his hss for aluminums
[18:53:27] <GuShH_> I don't think I can reach the required SFM on carbide for some materials
[18:53:39] <GuShH_> oh well
[18:54:09] <PetefromTn_> Looks like about 2500 RPM and 24 IPM feedrate with a .010 DOC feels real good.
[18:54:37] <PetefromTn_> Not quite like that SICK SECO Octomill facemill gets but damn close.
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[18:57:35] <GuShH_> heh indexable cutters are nice but not everyone can afford them!
[18:57:50] <GuShH_> plus it doesn't make much sense unless you run production
[18:58:26] <PetefromTn_> I dunno about that we don't really run production there and they have quite a few of them LOL.
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[18:58:46] <PetefromTn_> I NEED to get a quality facemill here in the VMC so I can just use it when I need it.
[18:58:55] <GuShH_> obviously depends on desired quality and market :/
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[18:59:18] <GuShH_> plus factoring in the cost of an extra process to reach the desired finish
[18:59:24] <GuShH_> electro polishing or what-have-you
[19:00:27] <PetefromTn_> They're not THAT expensive man.. Just a couple hundred bucks and you use them a LOT...
[19:01:00] <GuShH_> depends on the size
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[19:02:41] <GuShH_> you know, it also requires less skill to run indexables, just sayin' that might be a factor these days as well.
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[19:04:47] <GuShH_> nice https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0-nUVem6JFQ
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[19:11:59] <MrHindsight> 3D printing useless.. HA! http://www.3ders.org/articles/20140413-3d-printed-swimsuit-highlighted-at-shanghai-fashion-week-2014.html
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[19:15:24] <ReadError> would have been nice w/o the 3d printed suit too
[19:15:28] <ReadError> so still, useless
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[19:20:09] <XXCoder> GuShH_: by same erson https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a6SNxQpxvJc
[19:25:24] <GuShH_> ReadError: haha
[19:25:54] <GuShH_> 6 coolant jets... now they're just showing off.
[19:26:40] <GuShH_> XXCoder : still relatively expensive for the home guy...
[19:26:46] <XXCoder> I bet
[19:35:09] <XXCoder> wow http://www.topolabs.com/
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[19:54:44] <nylar> lots of people in here making their own cnc's
[19:54:56] <nylar> should be able to find good answers
[19:55:10] <nylar> @ Noxz that is
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[19:55:41] <Noxz> Alright, I am designing my CNC (I have many parts, like the ballscrews and linear bearings, and controller) and I wam working out the whole structure/frame, with primarily 80/20 extrusion (25 series) .. I was curious about the floor boards/table though.. if it should be a compeltely flat sheet or if it should have like holes or slide boards to be able to hold parts in place when machining them
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[19:56:18] <jdh> t-slots
[19:56:19] <Noxz> I do plan on milling mostly metal
[19:56:23] <Noxz> t slots, I figured
[19:56:57] <Noxz> 80/20 is sort of all T-Slots, right?
[19:57:04] <jdh> yeah
[19:57:22] <Noxz> but, do I have flat stuff inbetween?
[19:57:36] <Noxz> my working area is going to be somewhat large, 36"x48"
[19:59:45] <GuShH_> woot
[20:00:06] <XXCoder> Noxz: maybe some idea http://www.overclock.net/t/755828/complete-2-x-3-custom-cnc-router-from-80-20-aluminum-extrusion
[20:00:11] <XXCoder> you can easily scale up
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[20:01:34] <Noxz> he uses a flat board
[20:02:54] <XXCoder> yeah there is other designs that has entire surface of 8020s
[20:03:10] <XXCoder> so those is pretty strong and you got plenty of attachment points of stock
[20:03:36] <Noxz> onlinemetals has a 20% off of $100 till EOD, with a coupon coe, so if I need something flat, I better get it today
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[20:04:05] <XXCoder> wow pretty good deal
[20:04:07] <Noxz> 2NEW is the code, btw
[20:04:25] <Noxz> newsletters ;) the emails are sometimes worth it in the end
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[20:05:07] <PetefromTn_> At the risk of sounding negative, if you wish to be milling MOSTLY metal you are gonna have a hard time with a homebuilt 8020 machine that big or at all getting enough rigidity.
[20:06:38] <XXCoder> this ones strong enough to mill steel http://www.8020cnc.com/home
[20:08:42] <zeeshan> PetefromTn_: let him build it
[20:08:43] <zeeshan> :D
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[20:09:20] <Noxz> to aid the rigidity, I am doing quite a bit.. as well as some large 80/20
[20:09:34] <Noxz> maybe I'll sketch up some pics and throw them on imagebin
[20:09:47] <zeeshan> build and report
[20:09:47] <zeeshan> :D
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[20:12:28] <PetefromTn_> Honestly while he did actually cut the steel I would imagine he probably burnt thru half a dozen or more cutters with that single op. Steel cuts much slower speeds than that generally. If you build it rigid enought you MIGHT be able to cut aluminum and I say that with the understanding that you will cut it like the guys who make the datron machines do. HIGH Spindle speeds and fast feedrates with shallowish depths of cut.
[20:13:04] <zeeshan> you can cut steel really fast
[20:13:04] <zeeshan> :D
[20:13:10] <zeeshan> w/ CBN+ lots of coolant!
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[20:13:23] <XXCoder> not if it breaks framework
[20:13:23] <Noxz> I don't need to do alot, more so prototyping some molds for thermoplastic extrusion
[20:14:49] <zeeshan> PetefromTn_:
[20:14:54] <zeeshan> did you end up ordering those shars hydraulic arms?
[20:15:01] <PetefromTn_> If you have any thoughts of moldmaking you are really needing a proper milling machine man. If it is just for fun and hobby stuff and goofing around learning then knock yourself out but if you have any real intentions of doing it for real get yourself a nice rigid mill.
[20:15:28] <zeeshan> PetefromTn_: why would you want to do that
[20:15:36] <zeeshan> when you can build a floppy machine , then realize that
[20:15:41] <zeeshan> then get a real mill
[20:15:44] <zeeshan> =)
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[20:16:05] <Noxz> some of the peices I am using are rather large, like 50x100 (25mm series) for the x axis beam, riding ontop of 4 THK ssr20 bearings rails (8 blocks)
[20:16:22] <zeeshan> Noxz: have you done deflection calculations?
[20:16:28] <zeeshan> or you just throwing around big beams
[20:16:30] <zeeshan> and hoping it works
[20:16:57] <Noxz> I am not sure if the deflection numbers exist for some of the 80/20 peices
[20:17:04] <zeeshan> they dont need to
[20:17:18] <zeeshan> you can find all your moments of inertia based on the profile
[20:18:26] <PetefromTn_> Noxz I am really not trying to bust your balls here I am just trying to say that cutting metal takes some rigidity and a homebuilt machine made from extrusions is going to be marginal at best. There is a real reason why machining centers are made from Cast iron and weigh many tons.
[20:18:38] <Noxz> I'm fairly sure that I can get done what I need to do
[20:18:51] <zeeshan> do you know what a simply supported beam is?
[20:19:08] <zeeshan> http://static5.theconstructor.org/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/clip_image001.jpg
[20:19:10] <zeeshan> something like that
[20:19:22] <XXCoder> PetefromTn_: I wonder if using alum L beams to make qantry more rigit would work? (not for him, I just want just rigit enough to mill alum slowly)
[20:19:27] <zeeshan> to find the maximum deflection at the center for a point load like that
[20:19:41] <zeeshan> you can do y = -F*l^3 / (48E*I)
[20:19:46] <zeeshan> I = moment of inertia of the profile
[20:19:56] <PetefromTn_> well good luck with it. Honestly extruded aluminum machines are best suited for wood routing and plasma cutting etc..
[20:19:56] <zeeshan> E = modulus of rigidity (youngs modulus)
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[20:20:02] <zeeshan> F = force
[20:20:04] <zeeshan> l = length
[20:20:29] <XXCoder> Pete yeah I would do mostly wood. Just want alum just to mill few parts for better cnc
[20:21:14] <PetefromTn_> Then build it as tight and rigid as you can and machine like the datron mills do fast speeds and feeds and shallow depths of cut and you will probably be fine in aluminum.
[20:21:34] <XXCoder> I was thinking box type gantry
[20:21:46] <XXCoder> using alum L bems to make it extra rigid
[20:21:52] <Einar> XXcoder: Milling aluminum with high RPM, small dia cutter and shallow cuts may work.
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[20:22:12] <XXCoder> "small" like 0.25"?
[20:22:20] <PetefromTn_> or less..
[20:22:47] <Noxz> I am in no rush ;)
[20:23:04] <Einar> Your spindle may do 30KRPM? Then a cutting speed calculator will tell you what dia cutter to use.
[20:23:42] <PetefromTn_> There are tons of examples of well built CNC routers making light cuts in aluminum on youtube so it is doable. Steel is another story unless you like burning up cutters and whatnot.
[20:23:45] <Einar> And coolant! It does wonders for aluminum cutting.
[20:23:48] <Noxz> I'm looking at the hitachi M12VC router, with new collets from precisebits
[20:23:58] <XXCoder> yeah not doing steel anytime soon
[20:24:00] <XXCoder> if ever
[20:24:06] <Noxz> I never said steel
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[20:24:34] <zeeshan> say you're using a 1" round solid bar (I=pi*D^4/64 = pi*1^4/64 = 0.0491in^4), 48 inches long, made out of steel (30ksi youngs modulus), say you got a point load of 40lb, you get 0.021" deflection at the center
[20:24:35] <Einar> For steel, rebuild a decent size older mill.
[20:24:35] <zeeshan> :P
[20:24:44] <zeeshan> hopefully i calculated that right :P
[20:24:51] <PetefromTn_> No you didn't but you did say MOSTLY metal and talked about molds for plastics..
[20:25:27] <zeeshan> Noxz: point is you can make a crazy mill out of 8020
[20:25:29] <zeeshan> if you do it right
[20:26:09] <Noxz> that doesnt seem too bad, especially if you measuer it you could do some software compensation
[20:26:13] <PetefromTn_> Zeeshan in answer to your question no I have not bought one of the hydraulic indicator holders from shars but I am considering it.
[20:26:25] <zeeshan> PetefromTn_: have you bought anything from shars?
[20:26:29] <PetefromTn_> sure
[20:26:30] <Noxz> (I'm using the SmoothieBoard)
[20:26:41] <zeeshan> its taking over 2 weeks to get my stuff
[20:26:41] <zeeshan> :{
[20:26:51] <PetefromTn_> as picky as it sounds like you are you would probably not like anything they sell..
[20:27:03] <zeeshan> i wouldnt have bought those mag bases :P
[20:27:03] <Einar> You cannot software compensate a vibrating beam!
[20:27:08] <zeeshan> einar sure it can!
[20:27:23] <zeeshan> grinders have accelerometers with compensation for vibration
[20:28:14] <zeeshan> PetefromTn_: do you follow halligan on youtube
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[20:28:50] <Einar> Zeeshan: And the price is?
[20:29:00] <zeeshan> couple million for the machine
[20:29:01] <zeeshan> haha
[20:29:14] <zeeshan> einar i'm just in troll mode right now
[20:29:28] <zeeshan> feeling a bit better after 1 week of sickness :{
[20:29:32] <Einar> So that is your hobby budget! Lucky guy.
[20:29:42] <zeeshan> i'm being sarcastic
[20:29:58] <PetefromTn_> no I honestly don't follow anyone on youtube.
[20:30:03] <zeeshan> aw
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[20:30:27] <zeeshan> you know all someone needs to do to see if their machine is rigid is take a piec eof 8020 profile
[20:30:39] <zeeshan> 48" long, and stick one end in the vise and pull with some force at the other end
[20:30:44] <zeeshan> and you quickly see how flexible that stuff is
[20:30:59] <PetefromTn_> http://www.ebay.com/itm/SHARS-3D-MINI-UNIVERSAL-MAGNETIC-BASE-HOLDER-FOR-DIAL-TEST-INDICATOR-NEW-/300938387327?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4611535f7f
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[20:31:04] <PetefromTn_> was looking at that one.
[20:31:12] <zeeshan> what does it say for shipping for you
[20:31:16] <zeeshan> it says 36.95 for me
[20:31:24] <PetefromTn_> free
[20:31:25] <Einar> Old style cast iron sliding against cast iron dampens vibrations in itself. And cast iron dampens vibrations too.
[20:31:35] <GuShH_> do you really want a mini holder?
[20:31:35] <zeeshan> 27+37+20 $ and i can get a small noga
[20:31:38] <GuShH_> I got one, not recommended.
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[20:31:47] <GuShH_> get the full size.
[20:31:49] <zeeshan> Einar: cast iron is sexy stuff
[20:31:54] <PetefromTn_> they have a few at work and they are pretty nice actually.
[20:31:59] <PetefromTn_> Mostly NOGA models.
[20:32:04] <Noxz> free shipping
[20:32:06] <zeeshan> the graphite within the metal matrix dissapates the energy through molecular friction
[20:32:20] <zeeshan> PetefromTn_: i'd want a noga but im anti-israeli products
[20:32:25] <PetefromTn_> yeah and it is rigid too..;)
[20:32:32] <GuShH_> not very rigid, but most minis are like that
[20:32:37] <zeeshan> and plus a chinese mag base works perfectly fine. i've tried my friends
[20:33:05] <PetefromTn_> agreed honestly the guys who have the chinese models at work I cannot tell the difference between them and the Noga models.
[20:33:26] <PetefromTn_> the hydraulic ones specifically.
[20:33:42] <zeeshan> i mean you just want 2 things out of a mag base at the end of the day.. 1. don't fall down and break your expensive indicator 2. don't move when you're trying to take measurements
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[20:34:09] <PetefromTn_> the fine adjust head on the chinese one is not as nice as the noga but it works fine.
[20:34:14] <zeeshan> why
[20:34:28] <Einar> Chinese Noga copy? Where?
[20:34:32] <shaun413> :/
[20:34:35] <Noxz> so... T-Slots, was the answer to my original question.. then I should not do the 20% off at online metals for a big sheet?
[20:34:36] <zeeshan> einar pete just posted one
[20:34:39] <zeeshan> http://www.ebay.com/itm/SHARS-3D-MINI-UNIVERSAL-MAGNETIC-BASE-HOLDER-FOR-DIAL-TEST-INDICATOR-NEW-/300938387327?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4611535f7f
[20:34:43] <GuShH_> they make chink hydraulic bases... that's not one of them
[20:34:54] <GuShH_> it's just "cam" lock
[20:35:20] <Einar> Ahh. I thought it was only the base.
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[20:35:26] <zeeshan> http://www.ebay.ca/itm/NOGA-MAGNETIC-INDICATOR-BASE-/331171729801?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4d1b5f9189
[20:35:28] <zeeshan> ^
[20:35:47] <PetefromTn_> how do you figure it is cam lock?
[20:35:48] <zeeshan> interesting, the fine adjust is at the bottom
[20:35:59] <GuShH_> "has owners marks"
[20:36:01] <PetefromTn_> Looks like a hydro setup to me...
[20:36:15] <zeeshan> pretty sure the one pete posted is hydraulic
[20:36:15] <zeeshan> sec
[20:37:52] <PetefromTn_> http://www.ebay.com/itm/SHARS-Premium-Hydraulic-Magnetic-Base-for-Dial-Test-Indicator-Fine-Adjustment-/330965861258?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4d0f1a438a
[20:38:01] <PetefromTn_> Thats the other one I was considering.
[20:38:09] <PetefromTn_> also hydraulic.
[20:38:33] <zeeshan> thats the one i got
[20:38:52] <zeeshan> looks better than the noga
[20:38:58] <PetefromTn_> oh you did? how do you like it?
[20:39:01] <zeeshan> it's not a black oxide finish
[20:39:06] <zeeshan> like the noga nonsense
[20:39:20] <zeeshan> PetefromTn_: i stil havent recieved it yet, thats the one i tried at my friends place and i got sold instantly
[20:39:29] <PetefromTn_> probably anodized will get scratched over time..but who cares.
[20:39:38] <PetefromTn_> its nice then..
[20:39:43] <zeeshan> yes
[20:40:39] <PetefromTn_> the real Nogas are nice to adjust that is for sure.. is the chinese copy easy to adjust and does it allow you to get sorta tight as you get closer to lock or is it kinda abrupt?
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[20:41:32] <zeeshan> i havent tried a noga
[20:41:35] <PetefromTn_> I was considering getting that one and their idicator that looks like an interapid.
[20:41:41] <zeeshan> but i didnt have a problem zeroing the indicator with the adjust
[20:41:54] <PetefromTn_> the fine adjust..
[20:42:09] <zeeshan> yes using the fine adjust
[20:42:13] <zeeshan> it didnt overshoot
[20:42:14] <PetefromTn_> or the hydro..
[20:42:17] <zeeshan> if thats what youre asking
[20:42:28] <Deejay> gn8
[20:42:31] <zeeshan> the hydraulic is all floppy till you yank it tight
[20:42:33] <PetefromTn_> no actually I am asking about the hydro.. is it
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[20:42:54] <zeeshan> PetefromTn_: check this out
[20:42:55] <zeeshan> http://www.ebay.com/itm/SHARS-Hydraulic-Magnetic-Base-Fine-Adjustment-1-Dial-Indicator-001-NEW-/350840363724
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[20:43:07] <zeeshan> 2nd picture (guts of the indicator)
[20:43:24] <zeeshan> chinese tools ftw
[20:43:25] <PetefromTn_> yeah I know but the noga you can get KINDA tight yet still able to move freely so it is not too floppy.kinda
[20:43:42] <zeeshan> no, this this is literally on and off
[20:43:45] <PetefromTn_> I know I saw that one but I already have a bunch of dial indicators.
[20:43:55] <zeeshan> yea but im saying
[20:44:02] <zeeshan> the quality of chinese indicators is perfect.
[20:44:19] <PetefromTn_> I need a .0005 or .0001 DTI to go on it.
[20:44:55] <PetefromTn_> Yeah I know they are not bad for the price. Mine is worn the hell out and I have had it for years but it still works well. I just want that interapid style. easier to use.
[20:45:05] <zeeshan> why is it easier to use
[20:45:11] <zeeshan> a lot of people say that, but i never understood why
[20:46:11] <PetefromTn_> http://www.ebay.com/itm/0-060-Range-Horizontal-DIAL-TEST-INDICATOR-0005-/370533561724?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item564585757c
[20:46:24] <andypugh> zeeshan: The inside looks like nearly every other dial indicator. What is it that you don’t like?
[20:46:29] <PetefromTn_> That angled face and the little pivot on top make it like another joint of freedom.
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[20:46:52] <zeeshan> andypugh: i didnt say i didnt like it, i said i dont understand why its beter
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[20:47:00] <PetefromTn_> the dial face is smiling at you while you are checking stuff ;)
[20:47:05] <andypugh> And those single-knob bases are really clever, I love them.
[20:48:01] <zeeshan> http://littlemachineshop.com/Products/Images/480/480.711LPSZ.jpg
[20:48:03] <zeeshan> i have one of those
[20:48:11] <PetefromTn_> http://www.ebay.com/itm/INTERAPID-312B-1-SWISS-DIAL-TEST-INDICATOR-0005-GRAD-EXCELLENT-CONDITION-/141254279932?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item20e36942fc
[20:48:15] <zeeshan> i dont understand what the difference between the starrett last word and interapid is
[20:48:18] <PetefromTn_> Thats the genuine article...
[20:48:23] <zeeshan> they both have that pivot on the top
[20:48:40] <PetefromTn_> Starret last word are nice too...
[20:49:00] <zeeshan> http://www.ebay.com/itm/NOGA-NogaFlex-Holder-Model-NF1018-/320868745343?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4ab544807f
[20:49:10] <zeeshan> and if you use one of these
[20:49:22] <zeeshan> wouldnt that let you dial in anything you ever wanted?
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[20:51:30] <PetefromTn_> they have those at work too but that one does not have the fine adjust...that comes in real handy.
[20:51:38] <zeeshan> ahh
[20:52:21] <PetefromTn_> http://www.ebay.com/itm/SHARS-030-Travel-0-0005-Dial-Test-Indicator-Universal-Pro-Magnetic-Base-NEW-/350840996260?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item51afc0c1a4
[20:52:29] <PetefromTn_> What the hell is wrong with this picture LOL...
[20:52:42] <zeeshan> 239$???
[20:52:44] <PetefromTn_> that DTI is almost identical to the one I have...
[20:52:50] <PetefromTn_> That must be a misprint...
[20:52:57] <PetefromTn_> Gotta be.
[20:53:05] <zeeshan> says 231 sold
[20:53:05] <zeeshan> lol
[20:53:32] <zeeshan> if you scroll down the page
[20:53:39] <zeeshan> i think whoever was saying the blue one is cam lock might be right..
[20:53:42] <PetefromTn_> http://www.ebay.com/itm/SHARS-3D-MINI-UNIVERSAL-MAGNETIC-BASE-HOLDER-030-0005-DIAL-TEST-INDICATOR-/330965869125?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4d0f1a6245
[20:53:50] <zeeshan> cause the blue one it doesnt show as 'hydraulic'
[20:55:15] <PetefromTn_> how the hell does it lock down all three joints then?
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[20:55:43] <zeeshan> i'm not sure
[20:56:50] <andypugh> I have about 100 steel 3/16” rivets to install. Does anyone know of other options than a ball-pein hammer? I don’t have any objction to that. except that I can’t necessarily back most of them up.
[20:57:24] <PetefromTn_> http://www.ebay.com/itm/SHARS-Hydraulic-Magnetic-Base-Fine-Adjustment-1-Dial-Indicator-001-NEW-/350840363724?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item51afb71acc
[20:57:28] <Noxz> rivet gun?
[20:57:51] <PetefromTn_> That actually is a better deal you get the indicator and the shipping is several bucks less...
[20:57:55] <andypugh> The dial stands have bars with tapered holes in the end. As you pull up the screw it pulls (or pushes) rods down the middle of the arms to lock the other ends.
[20:58:07] <zeeshan> it shows up at 46$ shipping for me
[20:58:08] <zeeshan> :{
[20:58:16] <andypugh> 6
[20:58:18] <PetefromTn_> http://www.ebay.com/itm/SHARS-Premium-Hydraulic-Magnetic-Base-for-Dial-Test-Indicator-Fine-Adjustment-/330965861258?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4d0f1a438a
[20:58:22] <andypugh> $68 shipping for me.
[20:58:23] <PetefromTn_> than that one...
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[20:59:42] <Einar> Please stop linking tools that I can't use. :-( First time I was in USA 1976 they were about to go metric. Pretty slow movers I must say.
[21:00:03] <zeeshan> haha
[21:00:40] <PetefromTn_> apparently it is like $3.00 more for the one with indictor included LOL...
[21:00:50] <PetefromTn_> probably what they paid for it...
[21:00:57] <Noxz> hrrmm, that may be worth it
[21:02:40] <PetefromTn_> Zeeshan what is the diameter of the gauge face on the starrett Last word you have?
[21:03:22] <zeeshan> 1.5" or so
[21:03:25] <zeeshan> 1.75" maybe
[21:03:28] <zeeshan> its very small
[21:04:15] <andypugh> Einar: The US very nearly went metric in about 1815, but a British Privateer took the ship with the Frenchman and the 1m stabdard bar (gift from Napoleon) and never happened.
[21:04:21] <Einar> Small means it does not interfere as easily in a crowded space. I use the smallest the most.
[21:05:18] <Einar> You say a *British* privateer took it? And still UK is not metric. :-)
[21:05:39] <PetefromTn_> Actually that is kinda large...
[21:06:17] <andypugh> The UK is metric.
[21:06:44] <andypugh> We use miles and pints for some things, but all engineering is in metric.
[21:06:57] <PetefromTn_> http://www.ebay.com/itm/SWISS-TYPE-DIAL-TEST-INDICATOR-0-06-GRADE-0005-/350976415532?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item51b7d3172c
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[21:07:04] <PetefromTn_> Thats the one I kinda like.
[21:07:55] <Noxz> any suggestions on floorboards?
[21:08:23] <PetefromTn_> I like carpeted myself ROFL...
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[21:09:09] <Noxz> heh x2
[21:09:44] <Einar> andypugh: I like pint. The rest of the imperials you can keep.
[21:09:44] <PetefromTn_> Wish I had a dime for every time I heard someone outside of the US whining about why we don't switch to metric. Personally I use both mostly because I am forced to LOL..
[21:10:07] <PetefromTn_> metric.. Personally I use both LOL
[21:10:28] <PetefromTn_> what the hell?
[21:10:46] <kengu> echoechoecho
[21:10:51] <Einar> That indicator does not matter much actually. I mostly use it to check if out of round and the like.
[21:11:08] <zeeshan> pete i lied
[21:11:22] <Einar> So if it does not move it's fine. In metric or imperial.
[21:11:22] <zeeshan> http://i.imgur.com/QuxcuKI.jpg
[21:11:30] <zeeshan> 1/16 under 1"
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[21:12:33] <PetefromTn_> Thats what I thought It looks smaller...Honestly my eyes are not what they were anymore and I like the larger dials.. I also like the black or yellow background dials too..
[21:12:47] <andypugh> Noxz: Floorboards?
[21:13:08] <zeeshan> i dont have a pic of this
[21:13:10] <Noxz> like, a tabletop that can hold the peice your working on in place
[21:13:14] <Noxz> via tslots of holes
[21:13:16] <zeeshan> but do you guys know what a plastic handle with two plastic wheels is for?
[21:13:38] <PetefromTn_> maybe a screen tool?
[21:13:51] <zeeshan> thats exactly what it is
[21:13:54] <zeeshan> what is it for
[21:14:07] <zeeshan> oh
[21:14:08] <PetefromTn_> you use it to push the little rubber stopper in all around the edge.
[21:14:14] <zeeshan> ah
[21:14:25] <Einar> PetefromTN: Get a LVDT indicator. Then you can get a display as big as you like.
[21:14:35] <zeeshan> http://cdn.fiscalgeek.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/07/screen-repair-tools.jpg
[21:14:41] <zeeshan> mine looks exactly like that brown one
[21:14:44] <PetefromTn_> LOL yeah for my blind ass right LOL...
[21:14:46] <zeeshan> not sure what that was doing in the machinist box
[21:15:03] <PetefromTn_> I got one too LOL.
[21:15:10] <PetefromTn_> Looks just like that..
[21:15:56] <andypugh> I am not sure I would want a digital gauge for centering stuffs.
[21:16:01] <PetefromTn_> Honestly those interapids are about the best I have used..
[21:16:21] <andypugh> Noxz: T-slot? Or vacuum?
[21:16:28] <zeeshan> andypugh: they're not that bad
[21:16:35] <Noxz> vacuum? no need for that
[21:16:36] <zeeshan> a lot of good ones have analog bars on em
[21:16:38] <PetefromTn_> They got starrett Mitutoyo, B&S etc at the shop so I get to try em all.
[21:16:58] <Einar> Older LVDT interfaces have moving coil indicators.
[21:16:58] <zeeshan> PetefromTn_: so you just like feel of the interapid?
[21:17:16] <zeeshan> like if im buying a tool
[21:17:25] <zeeshan> i gotta justify the cost, 200$ is a lot for a used interapid
[21:17:41] <PetefromTn_> I dunno I like the large dial, I like that it is angled, I like that it pivots, I like that it had the little dovetails all over... And it is a quality unit. the shars will probably not be as nice tho...
[21:18:03] <zeeshan> the mitutoyo tdi has dove taills all over!
[21:18:14] <PetefromTn_> Yeah so does my chinese copy LOL...
[21:18:50] <zeeshan> damn those interapid indicators are expensive
[21:19:24] <zeeshan> i still feel like a lot of this name brand stuff is a "hype"
[21:19:25] <PetefromTn_> yeah they are but they are probably worth it...
[21:19:26] <zeeshan> that people spread
[21:19:46] <PetefromTn_> I will have to settle for the Shars copy I guess....
[21:19:48] <zeeshan> like taiwanese micrometers vs mitutoyo vs starrett
[21:20:05] <zeeshan> taiwanese micrometers work just as good, if not better than the starrett's stupid little locking mechanism
[21:20:29] <PetefromTn_> http://knoxville.craigslist.org/tls/4419748558.html Here ya go man...
[21:20:35] <zeeshan> i should start videos on youtube "chinese vs made in usa"
[21:20:49] <PetefromTn_> NICE set there...
[21:20:56] <zeeshan> nice cause its b&s
[21:21:04] <zeeshan> but it prolly works functionally the same as the imperial set
[21:21:04] <zeeshan> er
[21:21:06] <zeeshan> import set
[21:21:24] <PetefromTn_> probably... but that is a great deal. wish I had the cash..
[21:21:40] <PetefromTn_> I shudder to think what those cost new...
[21:21:44] <zeeshan> don't fall for the made in usa vs name brand mess!
[21:22:18] <zeeshan> http://store01.prostores.com/servlet/accusizetools/the-864/EG00-dsh-0912%2C-0--dsh--12%22/Detail
[21:22:20] <zeeshan> win win!
[21:22:22] <PetefromTn_> Well there are USA made things that kick ass man... and then there are things the chinese copy well... It is all relative..
[21:22:48] <zeeshan> those mitutoyo copies are so good
[21:23:05] <PetefromTn_> do you have some?
[21:23:08] <zeeshan> yes
[21:23:28] <zeeshan> i was telling you the other day i sold the starret outside mics i had
[21:23:33] <PetefromTn_> It would be interesting to get some inspection grade standards and check them out...
[21:23:48] <zeeshan> i have some mitutyo inspection grade standards that i've tested them out with
[21:23:58] <zeeshan> i should make a video!
[21:24:10] <zeeshan> but i only have a stupid iphone :{
[21:24:10] <PetefromTn_> Even still they are all adjustable but that only moves the whole scale...
[21:24:37] <zeeshan> tell me one to test
[21:24:41] <PetefromTn_> Yeah they are stupid.. :D
[21:25:02] <zeeshan> 3-4 -> 3.1 3.4 3.6 3.95?
[21:25:30] <PetefromTn_> What grade are your standards?
[21:25:56] <zeeshan> 2
[21:27:08] <zeeshan> i should check
[21:27:52] <PetefromTn_> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gauge_block Interesting.
[21:27:57] <Noxz> hrm.. I am trying to figure out how to do some t-slots via 80/20 while also having a bit of flat area for support (otherwise it's alot of 80/20
[21:28:44] <zeeshan> according to that wiki they are between inspection grade and calibration grade
[21:29:01] <zeeshan> between A and AA
[21:29:38] <PetefromTn_> They should have a cert in the box that tells you what they are.
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[21:30:06] <PetefromTn_> The guys in the shop have workshop grade sets they use to measure all sorts of stuff...
[21:30:58] <PetefromTn_> Even a workshop grade set is quite nice to have. Most of the time the blocks are more precise than you could machine to anyways.
[21:31:23] <PetefromTn_> unless you work in the grinding dept.
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[21:37:50] <somenewguy> huh I am shopping for a dial indicator too, launched my Shars on friday when my sleeve turned the machine on by accident...
[21:38:31] <somenewguy> what is the techincal name for the one w/ the cantilevered arm that you use for tramming etc? not a staight plunge like most dial indicators, but a....?
[21:39:18] <Tom_itx> last word
[21:39:24] <somenewguy> borrowing a buddies turlin, but the dovetail on the face side slopes the wrong way and makes it next to impossible to use on my machine, so I guess another shars is in my future
[21:40:20] <zeeshan> i didnt get the certificate
[21:40:28] <zeeshan> but it has the mitutoyo part number on the side
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[21:41:34] <zeeshan> pete so i tested out the 3-4 import 3" 3.451 and 3.850 and 3.500
[21:41:44] <zeeshan> and it reads spot on but takes a couple of 'ratchets' to get there
[21:41:47] <zeeshan> like 4-5 ratchets
[21:42:07] <zeeshan> the mitutoyo 3-4 gets there in 2 ratchets
[21:42:10] <somenewguy> not quite what I am currently using, but maybe I should think about getting one of those instead
[21:42:21] <zeeshan> dunno what that's all about..
[21:42:29] <somenewguy> is used starret better than new cheapos?
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[21:42:52] <Tom_itx> mine is mitutoyo
[21:44:23] <somenewguy> or mitutoyo, man I am digging these vintage ones on fleabay, they looklike a better setup than a straight replacemetn for my launched one, easier to read for waht I use them for 90% of the time
[21:45:11] <somenewguy> I just always worry about used precision equiptment ya know? but you can't fix junk, well see, i gotta order something asap, gotta give this one back soon
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[21:47:02] <somenewguy> not comparing models but mounting styles, do you gys have experience with these two? is one b etter than the other (yes i know the brands are better, I mean dovetail vs swivel)
[21:47:08] <somenewguy> http://www.ebay.com/itm/STARRETT-LAST-WORD-INDICATOR-/301152914179?_trksid=p2054897.l5660
[21:47:16] <zeeshan> i have that style
[21:47:16] <somenewguy> http://www.ebay.com/itm/like/300692393741?lpid=82
[21:47:18] <zeeshan> and mitutoyo
[21:47:54] <zeeshan> and the cheapo
[21:47:58] <zeeshan> they all work the same in my opinion
[21:47:59] <zeeshan> lol
[21:48:06] <somenewguy> can't tell if the ball and shaft would make it a million times easier to read without hte machine blocking the dial, or if they are a pita to get into position
[21:48:25] <zeeshan> are you trying to get the spindle concentric with the work piece?
[21:48:32] <somenewguy> I have only ever used the dovetails, would hate to "upgrade" to the other style and discover I need to order a dovetail version to do what I have been doing the whole time lol
[21:48:48] <PetefromTn_> http://www.ebay.com/itm/SWISS-TYPE-DIAL-TEST-INDICATOR-0-06-GRADE-0005-/350976415532?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item51b7d3172c
[21:49:04] <somenewguy> cool zeeshan, in that case I'll try and get a used starret set, that arm at the top will make my life much easier
[21:49:38] <PetefromTn_> BBL..
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[21:50:02] <somenewguy> mostly tramming the Z axis to the bed and putting the vices in
[21:50:16] <zeeshan> honestly i think anything will work
[21:50:28] <zeeshan> i use a 3/8 round bar that i bent
[21:50:32] <zeeshan> with the last word indicator to trap
[21:50:34] <zeeshan> *tram
[21:50:48] <zeeshan> but you could just as easily tram w/ a regular test dial indicator + nogaflex base
[21:51:06] <zeeshan> http://www.noga.com/prdPics/NF1018_prd_big_picture_1.jpg
[21:51:07] <somenewguy> I should do that
[21:51:07] <somenewguy> rather than mount it flat in the thing and sweep a tiny circle
[21:51:09] <somenewguy> it likes to hop and re-adjust going over the slots
[21:51:23] <zeeshan> if you want a cheaper alternative to the noga
[21:51:25] <zeeshan> you can use this:
[21:51:45] <zeeshan> https://www.shars.com/products/view/1456/Test_Indicator_Holder_Arm_Only
[21:51:46] <somenewguy> I also have a tiny bed, so my life is easy enough to begin with, but what black magick is that noga
[21:52:46] <somenewguy> image still loading on the second one, but I assume its like what I may have
[21:53:08] <somenewguy> hmmm, also interesting
[21:53:13] <somenewguy> thanks for all the input
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[22:01:27] <nick__> Is there some oddity to the hal edge detector I'm missing?
[22:01:58] <nick__> I've got a signal that I can net to a pin and make the pin go high and low, but if i net that signal to edge.0.in and the pin to edge.0.out, i don't get a response.
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[22:02:57] <nick__> also I've set edge.0.out-width-ns to the max s32 value, so the pulse should be plenty long to observe with hal meter or my LED on the physical pin itself.
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[22:10:02] <andypugh> Noxz: You can buy extruded T-slot
[22:10:09] <andypugh> (in table form)
[22:10:42] <Noxz> an hour or two of videogames then back to figuring out these floorboards...
[22:11:29] <andypugh> Noxz: http://www.worldofcnc.com/collections/t-nut-bed-plate
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[22:34:02] <nick__> Ok hopefully easier question, why does putting my hm2_6i25.read/write on base-thread cause errors while servo-thread is fine?
[22:34:11] <nick__> wait let me paste error
[22:34:49] <nick__> Ok no copy paste there... but it says function hm2_6i25.read needs FP
[22:39:05] <skunkworks> yes - it needs floating point
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[22:39:42] <nick__> skunkworks: How does needing floating point relate to the difference between my two threads?
[22:40:08] <skunkworks> the base thread is a fast thread. it is meant to do software step generation and such.
[22:40:14] <skunkworks> what are you trying to do>
[22:40:58] <nick__> skunkworks: I've got all my fast stuff (stepgen, pwm) on a 6i25. I need to write position-cmd for each axis and velocity-cmd for the pwm into it
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[22:41:33] <nick__> I guess now that I think about it my motion functions that generate that stuff are on servo-thread, so there's probably no harm in only updating them on servo-thread huh..
[22:41:42] <nick__> thanks skunkworks
[22:42:16] <nick__> Any idea why my edge detectors aren't doing anything?
[22:42:50] <nick__> Pasting code online now..
[22:43:15] <nick__> http://pastebin.com/Hz1TbvpJ
[22:44:28] <NickParker> Oh, looking at some of kwallace's code it looks like edge probably needs to be addf'd to do anything..
[22:44:30] <andypugh> nick__: The fast thread is not capable of performing floating point maths (actually, the next release will change that, but that’s not the point).
[22:44:43] <NickParker> andypugh: That makes sense, thanks.
[22:45:05] <andypugh> But, you really should not have a base thread with a 6i25. There is no point.
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[22:47:04] <NickParker-LCNC> Yeah I just needed to addf my edge functions, those work too now.
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[22:47:21] <andypugh> Just remove all referencs to the base thread unless you are actually needing it. (It is possible to use software stepgens etc with Mesa cards, there is a base-thread compatible “read-gpio” and “write-gpio” function in hm2 that means that a Mesa card can be at least as good as a parport for software-generated signals etc, but it is rarely used.
[22:48:10] <NickParker-LCNC> andypugh I think I need base-thread for my on-motherboard parport
[22:48:38] <NickParker-LCNC> I'm putting my endstops and eventually toolchanger through it. Toolchanger doesn't need any speed but endstops could use it for repeatability I imagine.
[22:49:11] <andypugh> NickParker-LCNC: The reason that the edge isn’t working is that you have no line that “addf”-s the edge detector to a thread.
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[22:50:22] <NickParker-LCNC> andypugh I've just realized that from reading some of kwallace's hal stuff posted on his website.
[22:50:35] <NickParker-LCNC> Thanks for putting in the effort to read my code though.
[22:50:51] <andypugh> I have never forgotten to addf a function. Honest :-)
[22:51:31] <NickParker-LCNC> I don't know why, but I assumed edge and stuff like it in hal just worked. Making the programmer addf everything is a nice convention.
[22:51:47] <NickParker-LCNC> Makes the whole thing more controllable and all
[22:54:17] <andypugh> Things run in the exact sequence they are addf-ed in. Give some thought to what order you want things to happen in. Nothing should run before it has inputs, and things should run before anyhting that uses their output.
[22:55:27] <andypugh> Actually, you can add modifiers to addf to force an execution order, if you really need to. But that is only usually necessary when there are multiple HAL files.
[23:00:08] <NickParker-LCNC> andypugh: I'll make sure I get all that in order then.
[23:00:45] <NickParker-LCNC> All I've got left is checking that and endstops then I'm ready to wire it up and see what happens
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[23:08:26] <CaptHindsight> is there any way to use M62-M65 synched with motion only based on encoder position or steps? Say a M64 every 4 steps or 8 encoder counts and a corresponding off.
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[23:23:54] <skunkworks> CaptHindsight: that would probaby be doable in hal
[23:24:09] <skunkworks> depending on how fast you want
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[23:26:50] <andypugh> CaptHindsight: No. G-code knows nothing about encoders.
[23:27:24] <andypugh> It’s trivial to pulse an IO pin in synch with an encoder count.
[23:27:54] <andypugh> But not looped through G-code.
[23:28:12] <andypugh> Can you explain what you are trying to do?
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[23:40:58] <MrHindsight> I'd like to control digital IO's in real time based on position and what the G-code is currently doing. Say I need a valve to turn on for some number of encoder counts or steps
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[23:43:01] <MrHindsight> I'd like to be able to have it turn on from at the same time some motion starts to some delay based on position and turn off once again by position. The valve may turn on and off several times or only one time during a movement.
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[23:46:21] <MrHindsight> say during a G1, G2 or G3, the valve may turn on and off once or several times, it could be based on counts or steps. For example...
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[23:47:26] <MrHindsight> G1 (something) then 0-100 counts a IO flips state, then 1-100 counts it changes state again
[23:47:33] <pcw_home> I've done some FPGA code that does that (play out a data FIFO with enc counts)
[23:47:50] <MrHindsight> I'd like to set the number of counts
[23:48:16] <MrHindsight> I can see using counters in the FPGA
[23:48:55] <pcw_home> if the base thread is fast enough you could do it with the software encoder and a comp
[23:49:16] <MrHindsight> it's how I do it now with a separate FPGA, but I'd like to do it all with one FPGA and only with Linuxcnc
[23:50:00] <MrHindsight> the IO is always synched to the encoder counts or steps
[23:50:10] <pcw_home> either a FIFO or a compare/trigger gen
[23:50:12] <MrHindsight> it's never just in the ballpark
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[23:50:55] <pcw_home> so the g code sets up the upcoming trigger point fifo
[23:51:35] <pcw_home> each trigger point has an attached "op" field that controls the I/O
[23:51:55] <MrHindsight> yeah, since the machine might be moving when the valve is not being used, it's not just based on when it gets counts or steps
[23:53:32] <MrHindsight> as a working example say you are controlling a laser engraver and you want to print dotted or dashed lines vs continuous segments
[23:53:41] <pcw_home> for general "painting" apps a FIFO of pure data is probably better
[23:53:50] <andypugh> I think you can do it with HAL. Use a dif on positon and integrate with a looped-back sum2. That gives you a monotonically increasing position. Scale that and convert to int and then do the action based on an edge detector looking at the lowest order bit (choose the scale up the chain to set the frequency).
[23:54:36] <andypugh> That does need bitwise maths in HAL, though, but I added that to 2.5 recently so it should filter through soon.
[23:55:10] <pcw_home> or just a rate multiplier
[23:55:29] <andypugh> MrHindsight: Sounds like graster: http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?Rastering_With_A_Laser
[23:55:55] <andypugh> Though that always seemed like a really hard way to solve something that should be simple.
[23:56:04] <MrHindsight> I'll play with this using the 6i25 and also test that config for the Leadshine 3660