#linuxcnc | Logs for 2014-03-31

[00:00:00] <andypugh> You can tune a process to 75%turns per rpm50seconds
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[00:00:34] <andypugh> By which I mean if you are tuning a process, the numbers are just numbers.
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[00:23:32] <R2E4_> pcw_home: TI seems it is 0-10v command
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[01:06:15] <PetefromTn_Andro> Well folks I got a question for the guys here who have working tool changer machines ....
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[01:07:19] <PetefromTn_Andro> Connor is rapidly approaching a working toolchange setup for both his and my machines.
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[01:08:22] <PetefromTn_Andro> We ran into a scenario that we are not sure of the best way to handle it.
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[01:10:03] <XXCoder2> cant answer, but what scenario?
[01:10:37] <PetefromTn_Andro> We are wondering what happens basically when you shutdown the machine? IE when you startup and home the carousel and load tools how do you keep from having a crash when you restart the machine either upon power loss or just normal restart?
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[01:11:04] <XXCoder2> definitely good question
[01:11:28] <PetefromTn_Andro> Do you guys have some kinda write register that records what tool was in the spindle and what pocket it went in?
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[01:12:52] <PetefromTn_Andro> Typically you want to shutdown the machine with an empty spindle and whatever tools that are in the carousel loaded in the tool table that way.
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[01:28:33] <PetefromTn_Andro> Damn is this some more of that netsplits garbage?
[01:28:41] <XXCoder2> fun
[01:28:57] <XXCoder2> so far it seems standard irc issues
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[01:29:13] <XXCoder2> major ones last month or so was due to some goverment agenacy trying to kill freenode
[01:29:28] <XXCoder2> over some single channel they didnt approve of
[01:30:10] <PetefromTn_Andro> Really that bites.
[01:30:26] <XXCoder2> yeah it was stupid
[01:30:49] <XXCoder2> well be back heh
[01:32:34] <PetefromTn_Andro> Skunkie you around?
[01:32:37] <XXCoder2> guess dinner wasnt ready lol
[01:33:20] <PetefromTn_Andro> We had some delicious teriyaki wings my wife made I ate way too much LOL.
[01:34:06] <XXCoder2> :D
[01:34:14] <XXCoder2> we are having real nice hot dogs today
[01:34:25] <Tom_itx> no just rucas
[01:35:43] <PetefromTn_Andro> What's rucas
[01:36:02] <Tom_itx> he doesn't like freenode
[01:37:02] <zeeshan|2> hi friends, and pete
[01:37:17] <zeeshan|2> jk
[01:37:49] <zeeshan|2> garage has so much more space now
[01:37:56] <zeeshan|2> when things are organized and have their own place
[01:38:04] <zeeshan|2> im almost at the point where i can remove 2 whole storage racks
[01:38:09] <PetefromTn_Andro> Hey man you don't have to be my friend if you don't want to be LOL...
[01:38:20] <zeeshan|2> i kid
[01:38:20] <zeeshan|2> =P
[01:38:33] <zeeshan|2> pete how big is your garage?
[01:38:49] <PetefromTn_Andro> NOT BIG ENOUGH! !
[01:38:59] <zeeshan|2> mine is 20x22
[01:39:02] <zeeshan|2> or something like that
[01:39:06] <zeeshan|2> with a 7 foot ceiling
[01:39:13] <PetefromTn_Andro> Its about 25x25 or so.
[01:39:17] <zeeshan|2> i really think i can fit all my stuff in here
[01:39:26] <zeeshan|2> thats a good size
[01:39:32] <zeeshan|2> what height?
[01:40:03] <PetefromTn_Andro> It does have a 9.5' Ceiling tho which comes in handy...
[01:40:10] <zeeshan|2> damn
[01:40:12] <zeeshan|2> lucky.
[01:40:17] <zeeshan|2> you can pretty much fit any cnc in there
[01:40:42] <PetefromTn_Andro> I really need to take advantage of the HUGE attic above it somehow.
[01:41:01] <zeeshan|2> you can make overhead storage racks
[01:41:15] <zeeshan|2> with a folding stair case to get up there
[01:41:25] <zeeshan|2> but you might be moving =D
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[01:41:28] <PetefromTn_Andro> Well I dunno about ANY but yeah if I can get it thru the door I can fit it.
[01:42:20] <PetefromTn_Andro> Yeah I am worried about that actually I know most homes in Florida will not have a high garage ceiling
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[01:43:02] <R2E4_> damn, spindle not working
[01:43:16] <zeeshan|2> PetefromTn_Andro: if you move to florida
[01:43:19] <zeeshan|2> will you take your cnc with you?
[01:43:29] <zeeshan|2> vmc
[01:43:43] <PetefromTn_Andro> Yeah unless someone offers me a nice wad of cash for it LOL.
[01:44:01] <R2E4_> What part of florida?
[01:44:30] <zeeshan|2> so we were talking about tap and die storage right?
[01:44:37] <zeeshan|2> i ended up going with plano boxes
[01:44:38] <zeeshan|2> http://i.imgur.com/my4ZlqY.jpg
[01:44:47] <zeeshan|2> got those at the dollar store for 1.25 each
[01:44:48] <PetefromTn_Andro> I want to move back to Port Saint Lucien area where I used to live.
[01:44:55] <zeeshan|2> removed the lid and cut the hinges off
[01:45:00] <zeeshan|2> those dividers are adjustable
[01:45:52] <PetefromTn_Andro> You can get some decent stuff at the dollar store sometimes.
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[01:46:12] <zeeshan|2> yea there is tons of parts organization stuff
[01:46:18] <zeeshan|2> they have a whole section full of plastic bins
[01:46:26] <PetefromTn_Andro> Got an email tonight asking when we could show the house ...
[01:46:29] <zeeshan|2> my gf suggested it. she's addicted to the dollar store
[01:47:23] <PetefromTn_Andro> We did lower the price a couple thou recently so who knows...
[01:47:40] <zeeshan|2> pete why do you wanna move to florida?
[01:49:10] <R2E4_> I was born and raised in florida, clearwater
[01:49:37] <zeeshan|2> how the heck did you end up in quebec man
[01:49:38] <zeeshan|2> lol
[01:49:48] <zeeshan|2> parlez vous francais?
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[01:51:29] <R2E4_> oui parle francais. I married a french canadian in California where I met her.
[01:51:48] <zeeshan|2> did you learn french just for her? :D
[01:51:50] <R2E4_> pcw_home:you around?
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[01:52:14] <R2E4_> no, I learned french while working here.
[01:52:33] <zeeshan|2> ah
[01:52:53] <R2E4_> I dont know why the spindle is not working. I see the pulse via hal scope when it is suppose to start. IT does nothing though.
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[01:55:00] <R2E4_> engraving drag bit in stainless steel plates with bridgeport as we speak!!! lol
[01:56:56] <tjtr33> PetefromTn_ I adopted a few rules: start with spindle empty. always let the machine get the tools. pod# = tool#,
[01:56:57] <tjtr33> crashes occur at putaway when someonessleepinginmybed or during getatool when spindleaintempty.
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[02:00:44] <tjtr33> i wrote commands on non-linuxcnc controls an M10 that forgot the toolinspindle, and had users run that in prologue of every gcode program.
[02:00:49] <PetefromTn_Andro> Jeez this is getting old...
[02:01:06] <tjtr33> ? netsplit ?
[02:01:24] <PetefromTn_Andro> I guess got kicked off..
[02:01:43] <PetefromTn_Andro> What were you talking about?
[02:02:05] <tjtr33> use http://linuxcnc.mah.priv.at/irc/%23linuxcnc/2014-03-31.html to see what happened while you were gone
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[02:04:34] <PetefromTn_Andro> Okay so you are saying there is no way to record what is stored where upon shutdown?
[02:05:24] <tjtr33> not saying that, i dunno, but seems it could be stored in #5xxx vars. have not tried it
[02:05:54] <tjtr33> actually i said, "stat with spindle empty'
[02:06:04] <tjtr33> which avoids the issue
[02:06:08] <somenewguy> you could probably default have the controller assume longest tool on startup?
[02:06:49] <somenewguy> but to correct what is in the spindle would be a manual set to what it really is, which makes sense
[02:07:02] <somenewguy> if you are recovering from error or emergency, a little human intervention is a nice sanity check
[02:07:16] <PetefromTn_Andro> Yeah that would be ideal if anyone who might run the machine knew to unload the spindle tool into a pocket before shutdown but we are trying to make things idiotproof after all i am running the damn thing LOL
[02:07:32] <somenewguy> haha I know the feeling
[02:07:50] <Tom_itx> just because you record what was there is no guarantee it can't be manually changed
[02:08:16] <somenewguy> but if post-emergency it assuems longest tool, you at least wont have a crash, AND you won't try to load a tool into a loaded spindle
[02:08:35] <somenewguy> all this is theory to me of course, I don't even have indexable collets
[02:08:52] <PetefromTn_Andro> Well actually our plan is to have an auto homing routine upon startup which will not allow any user input until complete.
[02:09:09] <pcw_home> R2E4_ so spindle is no-go?
[02:09:31] <tjtr33> PetefromTn_Andro, how many employees you got to worry about? cant they/you check 16 or so tools are where they should be before hitting start?
[02:09:36] <R2E4_> no,
[02:09:57] <R2E4_> I am thinking it needs 0-10V with forward input or reverse inp[ut
[02:10:13] <PetefromTn_Andro> Yeah we are not really talking about tool length here rather trying to store a tool in a pocket that already has one in it crashes...
[02:10:44] <somenewguy> oh, a pre-occupied pocket would be just as akward as a pre-occupied spindle, didn't think of that
[02:10:52] <tjtr33> thats a sensor and some logic setting value of 'someonessleepinginmybed'
[02:10:58] <R2E4_> When I givbe it enable command, I hear acontactor energize.
[02:11:11] <Tom_itx> When LinuxCNC is shut down, volatile parameters lose their values. All parameters except numbered parameters in the current persistent range [1] are volatile. Persistent parameters are saved in the .var file and restored to their previous values when LinuxCNC is started again. Volatile numbered parameters are reset to zero.
[02:11:15] <R2E4_> but the maintenance manual is no real help.
[02:11:23] <pcw_home> do you have an analog input voltage
[02:11:27] <pcw_home> ?
[02:11:38] <Tom_itx> http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/gcode/overview.html
[02:11:39] <PetefromTn_Andro> There is 20 tools and if the tool in spindle is tracked along with its position somewhere outside the power on setup it will not matter.
[02:11:56] <R2E4_> halscope says there is.
[02:12:10] <R2E4_> out of the 7i77 you mean?
[02:12:12] <pcw_home> does a DVM say ther is
[02:12:44] <pcw_home> (channel 5)
[02:13:25] <R2E4_> I havemine setup on channel 3
[02:14:21] <PetefromTn_Andro> Honestly my questions here were hopefully being directed to those folks who have working toolchanger equipped machines. Although any input is welcome I am curious as to what their machine setup does in this instance.
[02:15:12] <R2E4_> analogout3
[02:16:30] <zeeshan|2> FUCK
[02:16:34] <zeeshan|2> i forgot to bid on the level
[02:16:36] <zeeshan|2> it sold for 100
[02:16:40] <zeeshan|2> omg.
[02:16:41] <zeeshan|2> ;[
[02:16:47] <zeeshan|2> i shoulda put an alarm.
[02:18:39] <PetefromTn_Andro> I would like to think there is a way to track this upon shutdown or rather continually in some register when the control is enabled. Then when shutdown happens and restart can check that register somehow and know what is where..
[02:19:01] <R2E4_> pcw_home: 10vdc
[02:19:26] <R2E4_> gnd, AOUT3
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[02:21:30] <pcw_home> aout 3 is not suited to spindle use
[02:21:55] <pcw_home> (because it cannot be separately enabled)
[02:22:29] <pcw_home> aout5 should be used
[02:22:36] <PetefromTn_Andro> Yeah man I was thinking that I use axis 5 for spindle.
[02:23:27] <Tom_itx> PetefromTn_Andro, did you read the link?
[02:23:41] <Tom_itx> 5400 - Current Tool Number
[02:23:47] <Tom_itx> stored in the .var file
[02:24:01] <R2E4_> OK, I canchange that later. I am not using the ENA+ onthat channelthough.
[02:25:02] <pcw_home> doesnt matter, same issue (only aout5 is independent)
[02:25:15] <PetefromTn_Andro> Okay does that include the pocket information too? My smartphone kinda has a fit when I try to look at too much stuff at one time LOL.
[02:25:33] <Tom_itx> it allows for user vars
[02:25:54] <Tom_itx> 1-5000 - G-Code user parameters. These parameters are global in the G Code file.
[02:25:54] <R2E4_> OK, I will change it but that wouldnt make a diofference here would it?
[02:26:15] <pcw_home> not if you have 10V and no spindle rotation
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[02:26:57] <pcw_home> what are the forward and reverse signals supposed to be?
[02:27:37] <pcw_home> and is the spindle velocity sensor connected/working?
[02:28:28] <R2E4_> It doesnt tell me in the manual what they are for, I suspect the spindle wont move kwithout one or the other input true. I am sitting now with it in forward.
[02:28:51] <PetefromTn_Andro> Tom I will look into that some more tomorrow. Sounds like it might be our answer here. Thanks for searching for me.
[02:28:58] <R2E4_> It has a magnetic sensor for orientation andthat is connected.
[02:30:08] <PetefromTn_Andro> Was hoping to hear from someone with a working toolchanger setup about how they handle this but I guess not. Gotta get to sleep now.
[02:30:26] <tjtr33> Tom_itx, " The range of persistent parameters may change as development progresses. This range is currently 5161- 5390. It is defined in the _required_parameters array in file the src/emc/rs274ngc/interp_array.cc "
[02:30:45] <tjtr33> i dunno what branch you are using
[02:31:09] <PetefromTn_Andro> We are using master updated as of about two weeks ago
[02:31:32] <Tom_itx> the point is that there are stored parameters available
[02:32:12] <PetefromTn_Andro> Yeah I understand and maybe we can use one or two here to track pocket and tool in spindle
[02:33:25] <PetefromTn_Andro> Thanks a bunch guys. Gonna hit the sack. Night.
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[02:36:45] <Tom_itx> tjtr33, so the other parameters aren't stored in the file... just the coordinate system data?
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[02:38:18] <skunkworks> iirc - if you add the parameter number to the var file - it then persists...
[02:38:36] <skunkworks> (between runs)
[02:38:52] <tjtr33> thats what the docs say, and the current tool number is one step beyond the list of stored data. the src file and footnote explain it. (this is what i read when i look at my source )
[02:40:14] <tjtr33> skunkworks, could you look at the last line of http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/gcode/overview.html. and then at the src file for us?
[02:40:40] <tjtr33> i think it says the tool number is outside of the persistant range
[02:40:58] <tjtr33> lemme try on a sim
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[02:41:01] <pcw_home> R2E4_ I wonder if theres a sequence that must be followed (say assert for/rev and then assert enable)
[02:41:13] <zeeshan|2> any of you guys have file cabinets
[02:41:14] <zeeshan|2> in the shop
[02:41:35] <R2E4_> pcw_home: I'm going to try and speak with Fanuc tomorrow.
[02:43:48] <Tom_itx> tjtr33, that's what it says...
[02:45:18] <zeeshan|2> R2E4: did you buy it from fanuc directly?
[02:45:33] <tjtr33> Tom_itx, my var files are 5161 thru 5490 and they are all alotted in that array
[02:45:46] <zeeshan|2> support costs $$
[02:46:13] <tjtr33> Tom_itx, and I dont know how to examine a #var in a terminal
[02:46:31] <R2E4_> IT was in the machinewhen I got themachine.
[02:46:40] <Tom_itx> i'm not sure either
[02:46:58] <zeeshan|2> do you have the motor manual?
[02:47:49] <tjtr33> Tom_itx, Cradek replied on wiki "http://linuxcnc.org/hardy/lucid/emc2/index.php/french/forum/20-g-code/26416-numbered-parameters-persistence--how-many"
[02:48:03] <R2E4_> Dont need the motor manual. ned the drive manual and I have the maintenance manual for the drive, but that does meno good.
[02:48:31] <tjtr33> he said what skunkworks said, if you _add_ a var to the file, it becomes persistant, going to try now ( dunno whats NOT used already tho )
[02:48:37] <zeeshan|2> i can hook you up with fanuc's support manuals
[02:48:42] <zeeshan|2> that they give on a CD
[02:49:11] <zeeshan|2> is has the technical documents for servo and amplifiers
[02:49:27] <Tom_itx> use the user vars associated with gcode user parameters
[02:49:33] <Tom_itx> 1-5000
[02:49:45] <Tom_itx> those are global
[02:49:55] <humble_sea_bass> zeeshan|2: post that business
[02:50:01] <zeeshan|2> wil lbe uploaded in 39 min
[02:50:04] <zeeshan|2> throwing it on dropbox
[02:50:10] <R2E4_> Can you check for Servo drive B-53425E
[02:50:12] <R2E4_> ok cool
[02:50:22] <R2E4_> WOW, thanks
[02:50:31] <humble_sea_bass> i'm going to bed. but would you mind doing a /msg for the link
[02:50:47] <zeeshan|2> yes
[02:50:57] <humble_sea_bass> you are a king
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[02:51:48] <R2E4_> Thanks man, If this works, you are not far, you can come use my shop, and my wife.
[02:51:55] <zeeshan|2> LOL
[02:52:07] <zeeshan|2> im installing and checking if its got that manual
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[02:54:25] <R2E4_> The servo motor is A06b-1003 B300
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[02:55:48] <zeeshan|2> all i see is
[02:55:52] <zeeshan|2> series 16i to 21i stuff
[02:56:08] <zeeshan|2> b-6xxxxx
[02:58:20] <humble_sea_bass> http://i.imgur.com/R4eiEf5.gif
[02:59:01] <humble_sea_bass> the internet isn't even trying to tell me about weird tricks
[03:00:26] <zeeshan|2> R2E4:
[03:00:30] <zeeshan|2> are you sure its called that?
[03:00:52] <zeeshan|2> when i google that, that says its a fanuc maintenance manual
[03:01:12] <zeeshan|2> b-52424e is the operators manual
[03:01:43] <zeeshan|2> you sure its not a alpha series servo amplifier?
[03:03:39] <zeeshan|2> okay from this manul im reading
[03:03:48] <zeeshan|2> a06b is stating its a ac server motor
[03:03:51] <zeeshan|2> alpha series
[03:04:05] <zeeshan|2> the 1 means its a taper shaft w/ brake (35N*m)
[03:04:17] <zeeshan|2> whoops
[03:04:22] <zeeshan|2> read the wrong number
[03:04:41] <zeeshan|2> that motor isnt an alpha series nm
[03:04:44] <tjtr33> Tom_itx, try MDI #5161=123.456 then (debug, #5161) to get a popup ,,, next look at file saved
[03:06:30] <tjtr33> Tom_itx, yah its in the saved .var file, now to use a previously unused var
[03:07:01] <R2E4_> no
[03:07:06] <jdh> anyone know what happens when you hook a low-inductance stepper up to a drive that says no low inductance steppers?
[03:08:36] <R2E4_> zeeshan|2: Thats the manual I have B-53425E, it is the maintenance manual.
[03:08:43] <zeeshan|2> yea
[03:08:54] <zeeshan|2> i think this might have something
[03:08:58] <zeeshan|2> that might help you
[03:09:00] <R2E4_> I ned the manual with the wiring and connections, and operating
[03:09:01] <R2E4_> Cool
[03:09:04] <zeeshan|2> its worth taking a look
[03:09:12] <zeeshan|2> i mainly used it to debug the controllers
[03:09:17] <zeeshan|2> never looked into wiring
[03:10:43] <tjtr33> Tom_itx, MDI #5160=876.54321 then (debug, #5160) to get a popup , this part worksm but its NOT saved to var file :(
[03:11:21] <tjtr33> Tom_itx, var file still begins at 5161, maybe 5160 belongs to something else
[03:11:21] <R2E4_> The bridgeports is just purring along....
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[03:13:21] <Tom_itx> !bookmark
[03:13:32] <Tom_itx> for me so i can look at it tomorrow :)
[03:15:50] <Tom_itx> the range is from 5061-5070 then it jumps to 5161-5169
[03:15:50] <tjtr33> #5170 is insode that domain, unused, but isnt stored when i set it. it looks like _only_ those in the array are stored, and _all_of those are used already ( have specific meaning )
[03:16:07] <Tom_itx> yeah
[03:16:56] <tjtr33> Tom_itx, so unless i stomp on one of the existing vars, i cant do it UNLESS i change the code to add new vars ( maybe thats what Cradek meant)
[03:17:27] <tjtr33> pretty simple, but unique ( nobody else would be able to use it )
[03:17:38] <Tom_itx> yeah
[03:17:47] <tjtr33> thats all i got :)
[03:17:56] <Tom_itx> thanks
[03:18:00] <Tom_itx> it's not for me anyway
[03:18:03] <Tom_itx> but good to know
[03:18:15] <tjtr33> gnite, oh, gnite anyways
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[03:27:08] <Tom_itx> A parameter file may include any other parameter, as long as its number is in the range 1 to 5400. The parameter numbers must be arranged in ascending order. An error will be signaled if not. Any parameter included in the file read by the Interpreter will be included in the file it writes as it exits.
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[03:28:55] <Tom_itx> the tool table stores the pocket number
[03:29:24] <Tom_itx> http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/html/gcode/tool_compensation_es.html#sec:tool-table
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[03:29:26] <R2E4_> Be back in a few minutes, have to deliver these plates.
[03:29:30] <zeeshan|2> https://www.dropbox.com/s/zky2z1biwtgjbuw/fanuc_manuals.zip
[03:29:33] <zeeshan|2> ^ fanuc manuals
[03:30:02] <tjtr33> Tom_itx, at end of array is entry RS274NGC_MAX_PARAMETERS which is defined in interp_internal.hh as 5602 so theres room for a bunch of new vars which are persistant
[03:30:56] <Tom_itx> i saw that as well
[03:31:28] <Tom_itx> but you still have to edit the array in the .cc file right?
[03:31:50] <Tom_itx> i was looking at the file
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[03:32:31] <tjtr33> i think so, it looks clean, best run the devs in devel. state the reason first, rather than the proposed solution.
[03:32:33] <Tom_itx> also, they aren't all sequential
[03:33:31] <R2E4_> zeeshan|2: did you see mine oin there?
[03:33:41] <tjtr33> Tom_itx, correct, i didnt study the code loop yet. it would have to iterate from 5390 thru 5602 to be real helpful
[03:33:47] <zeeshan|2> i didnt look hard enough :P
[03:33:51] <zeeshan|2> open up main.pdf
[03:34:00] <zeeshan|2> and click manuals and amplifiers
[03:34:04] <zeeshan|2> see if you can find something useful
[03:34:24] <Tom_itx> tjtr33, you could add any number at the end of the array as long as it was above the previous one
[03:34:28] <R2E4_> OK, I am heading home and will download it in a while.
[03:34:29] <Tom_itx> and within the range
[03:34:48] <Tom_itx> i don't see why they don't just use the tool table data, it stores the tool number and pocket
[03:35:20] <Tom_itx> and if they pre index the changer it would start at a known location
[03:35:47] <Tom_itx> and if the tool in the changer doesn't match the tool table then shame on them
[03:36:36] <Tom_itx> anyway.. i'm out for tonight
[03:37:23] <tjtr33> gnite, and yes @ what you can add to the array
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[04:16:51] <R2E4_> manual is not inthere.
[04:33:49] <somenewguy> jdh, I'd assume the current control circutry just can't respond fast enough?
[04:34:00] <somenewguy> but I am not sure
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[04:49:17] <tjtr33> Tom_itx: it works in master.
[04:49:40] <tjtr33> Tom_itx: I added 5170 to the var file, set at 0.0000, then ran my Master rip, and set it to 51.70, verified it with (debug,#5170), exited linuxcnc, then viewed the .var file, it was saved ok,
[04:50:14] <tjtr33> Tom_itx: then reopened linuxcnc, and did (debug, #5170) and got 51.70. It works without hacking any code in master ( i had tested in a release version, my bad )
[04:53:42] <tjtr33> Tom_itx, now everyone running master can use the variable. but the allocation is unique to your implementation. Some mem map is needed like in the .cc file, like a startup popup or letter to the group, dunno how to make the special stuff puplic/acepted.
[04:55:42] <tjtr33> !later Tom_itx ^^^
[04:55:42] <the_wench> will tell Tom_itx when he/she joins next
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[05:31:31] <tjtr33> Tom_itx, you can add #5170 ( for example) and do #5170 = #5400 ( yournewvar = currenttool ) and that will save ok. but there is no POC info except in andypugh's SQL tool table system. i'm still reading about that.
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[10:52:26] <cpresser> is there a source for binary packages for the simulator on debian (wheezy)
[10:53:05] <cpresser> all ubuntu packages i tried (via buildbot) have at least one unmet dependency
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[13:17:21] <zeeshan|2> R2E4: im asking a friend for it, he will check tonight
[13:17:26] <zeeshan|2> and get back to me
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[13:29:28] <R2E4> cool thanks
[13:32:06] <R2E4> I wonder if I can change the drive for a more mainstream drive that would work with the fanuc servo.
[13:34:48] <zeeshan|2> i dont thinkso
[13:35:22] <zeeshan|2> all those alpha,beta drives look like theyre the only ones that are compatible with their i series controllers
[13:35:30] <zeeshan|2> (at least according to fanuc)
[13:35:42] <zeeshan|2> and if you look at the motor codes supported by those drives
[13:35:47] <zeeshan|2> i didnt see your motor on there
[13:35:57] <zeeshan|2> i should really be saying servo codes
[13:36:33] <R2E4> I will check again, the servo amp is A06B-6044-HXXX
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[13:37:26] <zeeshan|2> A06b 1003
[13:37:30] <zeeshan|2> B300
[13:37:33] <zeeshan|2> was the motor code right
[13:37:34] <zeeshan|2> servo code
[13:37:38] <R2E4> Thats the motor
[13:38:18] <zeeshan|2> http://www.hofstragroup.com/media/product_images/productimage-picture-ge-fanuc-6-3000-ac-servo-motor-a06b-0128-b575-0008-719.jpg
[13:38:31] <zeeshan|2> visually thats what i saw on the machining centers and turning centers and grinders
[13:38:35] <zeeshan|2> the 'red' cover
[13:39:09] <zeeshan|2> i wish i had one of those motor and drives
[13:39:15] <zeeshan|2> if you can get them working with linuxcnc let me know!
[13:39:19] <zeeshan|2> i might convert my lathe to use it
[13:39:29] <zeeshan|2> indexing the spindle with that servo is a joke ;p
[13:40:21] <R2E4> My motor and spinle together is about 36" long...
[13:40:25] <R2E4> ITs huge.
[13:40:33] <zeeshan|2> yea
[13:40:40] <zeeshan|2> prolly cause its 20hp
[13:40:44] <zeeshan|2> or something ridiculus like that?
[13:40:45] <zeeshan|2> ;p
[13:40:48] <R2E4> Might as well be 2" long. Not working....hehe
[13:41:31] <zeeshan|2> haver you heard of the emag vl7?
[13:41:52] <zeeshan|2> http://www.emmequattroaxles.it/immagini/progetto_automazione/vl7.jpg
[13:42:07] <zeeshan|2> that was the baby i worked on most of the time
[13:42:17] <R2E4> yeah, nice lathe
[13:42:43] <R2E4> Thats a nice machine
[13:42:45] <zeeshan|2> they had robots in between each center
[13:44:33] <R2E4> I was so close.
[13:45:06] <R2E4> Theres not enough documentation on this that i can get a handle on it. Thats what is frustrating.
[13:47:47] <R2E4> That cd of Fanuc docs is newer products.
[13:54:50] <skunkworks> R2E4: did you talk to fanuc yet
[13:55:12] <R2E4> No, there not open.
[13:55:15] <R2E4> yet
[13:55:31] <R2E4> MO is in pacific time?
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[13:58:06] <R2E4> I dont remember setting the scale of my spindle...... 10v / 6000 rpm = .0016 scale factor
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[14:37:05] <zeeshan|2> 1700/60
[14:37:29] <zeeshan|2> 28.3333*200hz = 5666RPM
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[14:41:22] <R2E4> http://irmtl.com/vm40/SP-schematics.pdf spindle vm40 schematics
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[15:16:37] <pcw_home> R2E4: DR1 closed? 10V at DA2 (and 7I77 GND at E)
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[15:20:15] <R2E4> DR1 is closed, thats what enables it and I hear contactors. yup, 10v DA2, yes gnd from 7i77 at E.
[15:20:45] <pcw_home> S2 installed?
[15:22:56] <R2E4> I couldnt find where S2 is. I would have to remove the drive I think. however, it would have to be for the machine to work before cause I dont have those wires OVR1 and OVR2 to connect.
[15:28:01] <pcw_home> there was no front panel feed override potentiometer?
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[15:30:09] <skunkworks> that would do it - wouldn't it...
[15:30:35] <R2E4> I didnt see one, didnt specifically check though.
[15:31:37] <R2E4> you mnean on control panel of machine?
[15:31:52] <pcw_home> Yes
[15:32:41] <R2E4> There was no pots on the controil panel. There was feedrate select pushbuttons though.
[15:32:46] <R2E4> But not a pot
[15:33:18] <pcw_home> Hmm I would check for S2 then
[15:34:15] <pcw_home> I would also get the scaling set so that you are not at 10V
[15:35:18] <R2E4> like this? http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/2.4/html/examples_spindle.html#r1_3
[15:35:53] <pcw_home> not really
[15:36:25] <pcw_home> the idea is the same. the implementation is different
[15:40:30] <pcw_home> setp hm2_5i25.0.7i77.0.1.analogout5-maxlim MaxRPM
[15:40:32] <pcw_home> setp hm2_5i25.0.7i77.0.1.analogout5-minlim 0
[15:40:33] <pcw_home> setp hm2_5i25.0.7i77.0.1.analogout5-scalemax MaxRPM
[15:40:35] <pcw_home> plus you will need a abs comp to convert the signed RPM to positive only
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[15:49:28] <R2E4> comparator clamp?
[15:49:50] <pcw_home> ?
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[15:50:19] <R2E4> abs comparator so its just a positive signal.
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[15:51:24] <R2E4> ah abs component....
[15:51:28] <R2E4> sorry
[15:51:30] <Jymmm> today is a holiday?
[15:53:07] <pcw_home> Its a hollowday
[15:55:04] <Jymmm> César Chávez Day State holiday
[15:55:45] <Tom_itx> what did he do?
[15:56:05] <Tom_itx> i want my own holiday!
[15:56:21] <Jymmm> Cesar Chavez was an American farm worker, labor leader and civil rights activist, who, with Dolores Huerta, co-founded the National Farm Workers Association.
[15:59:00] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: You can have Tomorrow
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[16:00:26] <R2E4> 0 -10v, so using the forqwarfd rwverse input determines the spindle rotation direction... i think.
[16:01:38] <skunkworks> pcw_home, do you think a rolling average would work better for figuring acceleration?
[16:02:00] <skunkworks> of the last x samples
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[16:04:23] <pcw_home> Yes
[16:04:53] <skunkworks> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moving_average
[16:05:12] <skunkworks> The problem can be overcome by iterating the process three times, with the window being shortened by a factor of 1.4303 at each step.[3] This removes the negation effects and provides a better behaved filter.
[16:05:33] <skunkworks> does that mean they take the average of the 3 averages?
[16:06:35] <pcw_home> sounds like it but a simple SMA would be a big improvement
[16:06:47] <pcw_home> (and its easy as well)
[16:06:56] <skunkworks> so average of 10 samples, 7 and 5.. then average those 3 togather?
[16:07:22] <skunkworks> I think I can write a comp to do that pretty easy..
[16:07:52] <pcw_home> SMA is just average of last N samples
[16:08:09] <skunkworks> right
[16:08:28] <skunkworks> but they talk about inversions if you don't itarate though 3 times...
[16:09:16] <pcw_home> (so you maintain a circular buffer if the N samples and at the pointer position you subtract the old and add_ overwrite the old with the new)
[16:09:30] <pcw_home> of the N
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[16:09:33] <skunkworks> right - I can wrap my head around that.
[16:10:07] <pcw_home> mod N the pointer
[16:12:12] <pcw_home> should be much better (and more consistent) since the average will not
[16:12:14] <pcw_home> depend on the synchronization between accel data and sampling interval
[16:12:35] <pcw_home> (the problem the block average has)
[16:14:08] <pcw_home> (it will still be delayed 1/2 average period so the plot will show the accel late )
[16:15:40] <pcw_home> (I guess you could add a 1/2 average period delay function as a utility to the moving average comp)
[16:15:44] <skunkworks> that is ok - (already have that issue)
[16:16:45] <archivist> stock markets use moving averages too, use two over different (5 and 10 days) periods and look for the cross over to buy/sell
[16:17:43] <pcw_home> the delay function is almost the same code as the SMA (just 1/2 the length and no adds, just fetch/store)
[16:18:15] <pcw_home> so you could feed you velocity through and get you plots aligned
[16:19:06] <skunkworks> oh - delay the velocity.. duh.
[16:19:38] <skunkworks> I was wondering how I was going to look into the future to align the acc with the incoming velocity..
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[16:20:09] <pcw_home> looking into the future is hard
[16:20:17] <skunkworks> I agree.. ;)
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[16:21:23] <Gigs-> what is this thing used for? http://www.ebay.com/itm/YUASA-550-003-INDEXING-HEAD-SPIN-JIG-For-5C-Collets-NO-RESERVE/351032297734?_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851&_trkparms=aid%3D222003%26algo%3DSIC.FIT%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D21144%26meid%3D5876928570519962153%26pid%3D100005%26prg%3D9373%26rk%3D2%26rkt%3D6%26sd%3D111309685130&rt=nc
[16:21:26] <Gigs-> sorry for long link
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[16:22:35] <pcw_home> the lowpass filter comp is a Exponential Moving Average (EMA)
[16:22:45] <archivist> any regular shape but on bar type material
[16:23:06] <XXCoder2> http://www.chaski.org/homemachinist/viewtopic.php?p=193948
[16:23:10] <skunkworks> pcw_home, yah - that didn't work well
[16:23:11] <XXCoder2> might be helpful
[16:23:54] <archivist> Gigs-, eg this was made on a dividing fixture http://www.collection.archivist.info/archive/DJCPD/PD/2014/2014_03_29_measuring_tools/IMG_1752.JPG
[16:23:56] <Gigs-> I'll take a look
[16:24:18] <pcw_home> Yeah you want equal weights not exponentially weighted
[16:24:19] <Gigs-> I was searching for indexing table type things and these things keep coming up
[16:24:29] <Gigs-> i.e. geneva drive type deal
[16:24:54] <XXCoder2> might help too http://www.kanabco.com/vmsbbs/index.php?topic=1249.0 dunno
[16:25:27] <pcw_home> so the pegholes along the top ate a vernier of sorts?
[16:25:33] <pcw_home> are
[16:25:51] <archivist> digital vernier :)
[16:25:52] <Tom_itx> yes
[16:26:31] <pcw_home> 0 to .5 a hole pitch?
[16:26:37] <archivist> must tale pictures of my 4 ft digital vernier calipers (every 1/4")
[16:26:44] <archivist> take
[16:29:14] <archivist> 36 outer holes every 10 degrees, digital vernier to 1 degree
[16:29:44] <pcw_home> Yeah I kind of guessed that
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[16:30:30] <pcw_home> must be a pretty old idea
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[16:33:27] <R2E4> pcw_home: The gnd/AOUT on 7i77, that is using the field power gnd?
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[16:46:00] <pcw_home> No its 5V (PC) gnd
[16:46:47] <archivist> 4ft digital vernier calipers http://www.collection.archivist.info/archive/DJCPD/PD/2014/2014_03_31_tools/IMG_1776.JPG no makers name
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[16:47:20] <IchGuckLive> hi all B)
[16:48:55] <XXCoder2> hey'
[16:51:52] <pcw_home> wow that really neat (but surprisingly large steps)
[16:52:40] <XXCoder2> its 4 ft long wow
[16:52:44] <archivist> got it at a model engineer exb many years ago, never used it yet :)
[16:53:10] <IchGuckLive> this tool is for timber man carpenter that make houses
[16:53:34] <archivist> too solid for a carpenter
[16:53:42] <XXCoder2> metal shop?
[16:54:17] <archivist> casting /patterns rough measurement maybe
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[16:55:01] <archivist> must post the images to the oldtools mailing list
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[16:58:42] <XXCoder2> I have few strange stuff from dad
[16:59:09] <XXCoder2> like screwdriver that has tiny screwdriver that rotates when handle is pressed in
[16:59:42] <IchGuckLive> archivist we had one for 3meter in the shop
[16:59:44] <XXCoder2> so basically its screwdriver that screws regular screws with mini screw in it or something
[17:00:12] <XXCoder2> or maybe its just to help lock or something. so weird
[17:00:47] <archivist> XXCoder2, tappet adjusting tool?
[17:00:55] <XXCoder2> no idea, got picture?
[17:02:00] <archivist> do a google images search for tappet adjusting tool, there are many variants
[17:02:06] <IchGuckLive> we used it for setting up sensors on liniar robots
[17:02:07] <XXCoder2> ok lemme look
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[17:02:23] <skunkworks> pcw_home, what did you mean by 'mod N the pointer'
[17:02:35] <XXCoder2> interesting byut no
[17:02:57] <XXCoder2> it looks like regular screwdriver but has mini screwdriver in it too, that rotates
[17:03:56] <Einar> XXCoder2: Ratchet screwdriver?
[17:04:07] <XXCoder2> mini part is.
[17:04:21] <pcw_home> for a running average you need a circular buffer so the pointer has be incremented each time but wrap at N
[17:04:21] <XXCoder2> press handle in and it rotates
[17:04:27] <archivist> we want pictures
[17:04:33] <skunkworks> oh - righ
[17:04:35] <skunkworks> right
[17:04:36] <XXCoder2> dunno where it is now
[17:05:21] <Einar> Like this: http://www.powertoolsdirect.com/faithfull-spiral-ratchet-screwdriver-bits-range
[17:06:04] <archivist> I spent an hour a couple of times on google images trying to find what this is for http://www.collection.archivist.info/archive/DJCPD/PD/2014/2014_03_31_tools/IMG_1774.JPG
[17:06:10] <XXCoder2> nah it dont look different than regular screwdriver. with part of blade actually mini screwdriver. iuts all kinds of weird
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[17:07:41] <Einar> Archivist: Looks like it can be used to determine how much out of level a surface is?
[17:07:57] <IchGuckLive> Einar: did you got your magic lathe gcode to run
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[17:08:28] <XXCoder2> wonder why one end has mirror?
[17:08:36] <XXCoder2> (arch's pic)
[17:08:44] <Einar> Magic? There may be demons in the lathe, but no magic so far.
[17:08:45] <archivist> sort of a clinometer but only +- 5 degrees and at 90 to eash other
[17:09:40] <archivist> XXCoder2, so you can view along the axis and dont need to be above, common on surveying levels
[17:09:53] <XXCoder2> ogh cool
[17:10:06] <Einar> Or on weapons?
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[17:10:30] <archivist> not sure for weapons
[17:10:43] <Einar> Where you don't want to stick your head up higher than needed.
[17:11:45] <archivist> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Dumpy-Level-Top-Bubble-7-Sextant-For-Sale-Gift-/320704118948
[17:12:11] <archivist> never buy a polished one like that, ruined
[17:12:44] <archivist> methinks brand new made in india junk
[17:13:34] <Einar> Ich: I don't remember what you mean. But the lathe is pretty much behaving now. It does not reach the feed speeds the original brochure says. But according to the plots from my logic analyzer neither did the original controller.
[17:14:07] <XXCoder2> heh sometimes restoring destroys value. I recall one old stuff show where guy who removed real ugly black paint from one funture. apparently its rare one $6000 or more... if black paint was still on. without it, $200
[17:14:11] <Einar> I did some logging work on it before I ripped the old guts out.
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[17:16:16] <Einar> Would there be a point offering the old Boxford controller on fleabay or somewhere else? It seems a pity to scrap it if that's what keeps another lathe from working.
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[17:17:18] <archivist> some seem to fight over the bits
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[17:17:59] <archivist> but they dont know hoe to retrofit :)
[17:18:13] <XXCoder2> oh freakin funny https://scontent-a-sea.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-frc1/t1.0-9/10006580_683879768343246_3230987_n.png
[17:18:53] <Einar> Or they do education and the material is built around how the controller works.
[17:20:34] <Einar> Archivist: Is that how your web pages work? To document that something (not so common item) exists and where it is?
[17:21:27] <archivist> it was just a collection database originally, but it sort of grew
[17:21:58] <archivist> now people find old service manuals on there
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[17:23:25] <archivist> I also chuck all my digital pictures on it now to document and sometimes show
[17:24:58] <Einar> The strangest instrument I have is a planimeter. Beautifully built, but I don't have a clue using it. :-)
[17:25:46] <Einar> It's one of those things I can show and offer a prize for guessing what it is for. And noone won yet.
[17:26:02] <XXCoder2> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planimeter
[17:26:22] <XXCoder2> do I win? lol
[17:26:36] <Einar> Did I show it to you? ;-)
[17:26:49] <XXCoder2> nah lol
[17:27:51] <Einar> We have those kind of quizzes in our "Badger Club".
[17:28:47] <archivist> I have one too
[17:29:07] <Einar> Why am I not surprized....
[17:29:37] <archivist> if its in a box, I am a sucker for it
[17:30:08] <Einar> I think we both would enjoy looking around in the other's drawers.
[17:30:18] <XXCoder2> lol
[17:30:34] <XXCoder2> in some places that'd be quite dirty statement
[17:30:45] <Einar> ??
[17:30:57] <archivist> draws=underwear
[17:30:59] <IchGuckLive> i just got all stl uploaded to the 3d printer will see if they are build tomorrow when i hit the entry door
[17:31:00] <Einar> Not my native language you know.
[17:31:44] <XXCoder2> I forgot what region has drawers = underwear
[17:32:23] <CaptHindsight> the 50-60's :)
[17:33:30] <archivist> http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=drawers
[17:33:44] <IchGuckLive> today a big hail storm hit HK it is realy rear 36 since weather recording
[17:33:57] <XXCoder2> arch it just mak4s it worse LOL
[17:34:06] <archivist> :)
[17:35:25] <IchGuckLive> only for your info there is a new CREO 3D CAD online from PTC it is limited to 60 parts !!! Free
[17:35:39] <XXCoder2> 60 parts?
[17:36:04] <archivist> at once in an assembly?
[17:36:17] <Einar> Women's underwear!?! I was NOT implying that archivist or I use such items!
[17:36:21] <IchGuckLive> PTC has the Assemply structure and you can put 60 items togeter
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[17:36:27] <CaptHindsight> http://www.3ders.org/articles/20140331-germany-startup-twobears-launches-biofila-silk-and-linen-3d-printer-filament.html at least it looks better, still takes forever
[17:36:40] <XXCoder2> Einar: really its old usage, not current, I was joking lol
[17:37:00] <XXCoder2> 60 unique parts
[17:37:28] <archivist> Einar, I know, that's the fun of using other people languages :)
[17:38:23] <IchGuckLive> CaptHindsight: around your factrory new CNC builder in town http://xrcnc.com/
[17:40:47] <Einar> I have to. If I were restricted to using mine I would be sitting in a corner mumbling.
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[17:42:06] <XXCoder2> weird cncs in site
[17:42:20] <XXCoder2> like 8 router motors
[17:42:25] <XXCoder2> other one just 4
[17:42:37] <Einar> Usually it works out. On my first visit to USA I thought "making hay" referred to harvesting or something. It did not!
[17:43:14] <XXCoder2> normally drawers just mean drawers so youre fine this time :D
[17:43:28] <Einar> After that it could only get better.
[17:46:02] <Einar> The lathe have a central oiler. If I connect a wiper motor and a wire to the handle it could be electrically operated. Is there a way in LinuxCNC to give a pulse after ### metres of movement?
[17:46:50] <Einar> It will vary widely how much it moves between power on/off, so that will not be useful.
[17:47:57] <IchGuckLive> Einar: you can make a comp and tell it the number of movement and it makes a sum()
[17:48:05] <IchGuckLive> so then you can pulse out
[17:49:05] <IchGuckLive> like the THC it interacts with the motion fb
[17:49:54] <Einar> Can the sum counter be saved so it will continue counting upon next run?
[17:50:20] <IchGuckLive> that woudt be a python interact
[17:51:39] <CaptHindsight> IchGuckLive: looks like they are up north
[17:52:08] <IchGuckLive> i dont know if there are maybe free VARiables in the var files that maybe you coudt use to hold this in the
[17:52:34] <pcw_home> use the integ comp (on motion.current-vel) trigger at some level to pump the oiler (an reset the integrator)
[17:52:42] <IchGuckLive> CaptHindsight: i thoudt it is your next street
[17:54:22] <Einar> I may try that. More as an educational move than me not being able to pull the lever. At least for some years. It would be easier to debug than the toolchanger comp.
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[17:56:58] <Einar> Another use for a long time counter is to pump coolant for 15min. if it have been sitting for more than a week. I try to on my mill, and it keeps the emulsion from becoming a stink bomb.
[17:57:16] <Deejay> hrhr
[17:57:59] <Einar> A thin layer of oil on top makes anaerobic critters multiply.
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[17:58:10] <Einar> Aerating it helps a lot.
[17:58:27] <alex-bv-ro> hi all, here is a question you probably had allready.
[17:59:18] <alex-bv-ro> it is more ubuntu related than linuxcnc related, did anybody got the intel NM10 express graphics chip to work correctly?
[18:01:46] <pcw_home> Didn't know there was a problem with the NM10. Thats the one on the Atom D525 MBs that are commonly used for LinuxCNC
[18:03:56] <alex-bv-ro> I have an intel D2550 with nm10 chipset
[18:04:10] <alex-bv-ro> everything works great except monitor resolution
[18:04:31] <skunkworks> pcw_home, http://imagebin.org/302901
[18:04:43] <skunkworks> rolling average over 10 samples
[18:04:58] <skunkworks> (not logged data yet - just seeing if it works as expected)
[18:05:02] <IchGuckLive> alex-bv-ro: what os are you using
[18:05:09] <IchGuckLive> the live cd
[18:05:42] <alex-bv-ro> ubuntu 10.04
[18:06:01] <alex-bv-ro> i even tried 12.04 (wich by the way works until the real time kernel is loaded)
[18:06:12] <IchGuckLive> lnuxcnc live cd or a coustem build linuxcnc
[18:06:29] <alex-bv-ro> i have tried both
[18:06:35] <alex-bv-ro> latest livecd
[18:06:41] <IchGuckLive> did you update to 2.5.3
[18:07:19] <alex-bv-ro> yes, but the problem is ubuntu related
[18:07:21] <alex-bv-ro> :(
[18:07:25] <IchGuckLive> alex-bv-ro: where are you in the world
[18:07:34] <alex-bv-ro> romania
[18:07:48] <alex-bv-ro> Brasov, Transilvania
[18:08:03] <IchGuckLive> alex-bv-ro: http://buildbot.linuxcnc.org/
[18:08:05] <skunkworks> alex-bv-ro, have you for grins updated the bios?
[18:08:18] <IchGuckLive> get the synaptic open its the packet manager
[18:08:26] <IchGuckLive> go to packet source
[18:08:38] <IchGuckLive> 3rd party
[18:08:43] <skunkworks> IchGuckLive, it isn
[18:08:46] <pcw_home> I thought the D2550 used the PowerVR graphics
[18:08:58] <skunkworks> IchGuckLive, it isn't a linuxcnc issue.
[18:09:14] <pcw_home> (Cedar trail or whatever)
[18:09:23] <IchGuckLive> the 2.5.0 is not the best Atom support
[18:09:34] <alex-bv-ro> motherboard is http://www.asrock.com/mb/Intel/AD2550B-ITX/
[18:09:49] <alex-bv-ro> I tried everythink I could think of before writing here
[18:10:05] <IchGuckLive> there are graphic bugs nown in the issue list so it is best to update
[18:10:42] <IchGuckLive> alex first start the 122 rtai kernel and then update
[18:10:50] <alex-bv-ro> yes, I installed the latest updates
[18:11:13] <IchGuckLive> i think you messsed up with the 10.04 updates
[18:11:22] <pcw_home> I think the cedar trail MBs have issues with Linux graphics (D2550,2700,2800 etc)
[18:11:43] <Connor> skunkworks: You have a tool changer... I have a question... What do you do when you reboot linuxcnc / mill and still have a tool in changer.. do you have to deal with putting the tool back ?
[18:11:49] <alex-bv-ro> it's linux related, linuxcnc works great but in low resolution
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[18:12:14] <Einar> Do you have another monitor to try? On one of my PC's it seems to work fine with one monitor, not with another. Obviously a bug, but if using another monitor works you might have a workaround.
[18:12:21] <Connor> in working on PeteFromTN toolchanger script.. I've identify a issue.. what to do if he reboots and has tool in spindle..
[18:13:00] <alex-bv-ro> Yes, other monitors work just fine, the only problem is, I just bought 3 identical monitors for my new operator panel for my linuxcnc machines
[18:13:11] <IchGuckLive> Connor: i got a pyvcp tool clamp open
[18:13:13] <Connor> when he comes back up, the carousel will home.. but not know what pocket the tool goes into.. and will cause a crash when he goes to change tools
[18:13:19] <IchGuckLive> and i replace it mauell
[18:13:19] <skunkworks> Connor, we normally put a dummy tool in the spindle.
[18:13:37] <skunkworks> I thought you could tell linuxcnc what tool is in the spindle
[18:13:57] <Connor> Well.. they're random and non-random..
[18:14:02] <Connor> his is non-random..
[18:14:09] <skunkworks> right
[18:14:16] <Connor> and.. talking about across reboots..
[18:14:22] <IchGuckLive> connor mdi tell
[18:14:29] <skunkworks> I think you would have to ask on the user list...
[18:14:35] <Connor> Trying to remove the "human" factor
[18:14:55] <Connor> I'm thinking... give him a button that just puts the tool.. and doesn't get a new one...
[18:15:03] <Einar> alex: What I ended up doing was to beg an old video card from the IT guys. That fixed it for me (I bought 2 touchscreens).
[18:15:19] <IchGuckLive> im off bye
[18:15:25] <Connor> and 2ndly.. storing the current pocket in non-volatile variable..
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[18:15:55] <Connor> when he homes... it then checks if tool in spindle, and if so, checks that variable, and moves the carousel to that location.
[18:16:16] <Einar> Also because I read somewhere that onboard video is not so good for realtime performance. Then it seemed like a good solution for me.
[18:16:54] <Einar> Video cards gets thrown out early from the CAD guys (or PC gamers).
[18:17:00] <Connor> skunkworks: Thoughts on that ?
[18:17:50] <pcw_home> Onboard video is usually fine nowadays
[18:18:35] <skunkworks> Connor, sounds good - but you should ask on the mailing list. A lot more people on there running real machines
[18:19:14] <Connor> Kinda get lost on the list....
[18:19:30] <Connor> But, I'll see about posting up a question..
[18:19:38] <alex-bv-ro> i had problems in the past with this chipset but now the display is very bad
[18:19:39] <Connor> I plan on releasing this script into the wild after I'm done.
[18:20:02] <Connor> I just hope no one pokes fun at the way I did things..
[18:20:56] <pcw_home> can you sense if a tool is in the spindle (or in a toolholder?)
[18:21:03] <Einar> If I were to swap stepper to servo, would I need to go up in torque to not loose accel or speed? The torque/RPM curves are very different.
[18:21:44] <Connor> pcw_home: Can sense if tool is in spindle.
[18:21:58] <Einar> Connor: If they do, they better come up with a very godd solution!
[18:22:12] <Einar> good
[18:22:30] <pcw_home> seems like a prox on the tool changer could log empty holders by doing a spin at startup
[18:23:05] <Connor> yea. but, would rather tool goto original slot.
[18:23:17] <Connor> otherwise tool table gets all messed up.
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[18:23:44] <pcw_home> Sure but for safety it might be nice to verify
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[18:26:16] <Connor> true.
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[18:28:04] <pcw_home> not sure if it can be sensed easily or not
[18:28:30] <Connor> Yea.. Not sure either..
[18:28:45] <Connor> but.. I think my current idea is better than nothing..
[18:29:42] <pcw_home> skunkworks: looks good (a lot better than the boxcar average)
[18:30:58] <skunkworks> yes - but I am logging data and getting odd results. the calculated accelleration is extreme - and averaging that is crap. Would rolling avarage of the velocity -> then ddt that data?
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[18:33:10] <pcw_home> Maybe thats better, worth a try anyway
[18:34:49] <andypugh> The best way I have found to get accelleration from noisy samples is a polynomial least-squares fit which you then explicitly differentiate.
[18:35:29] <pcw_home> a bit more difficult to do in real time
[18:36:25] <pcw_home> anyway a SMA should be a lot more consistent than the boxcar average
[18:37:53] <andypugh> So, if the polynomial fit is 12 + 13x - 14x^2 + 15x^3 the acceleration is -28x + 45x^2 which you then solve for the x at the point af interest. (Actually it is better to shift the data to site symmetrically around x = 0 and solve for x = 0)
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[18:51:10] <andypugh> I think it probably could be done in real-time, but you would only have past data to fit to.
[18:57:58] <skunkworks> http://imagebin.org/302913
[18:58:12] <skunkworks> so - is the peaks the inversions they talk about?
[18:58:42] <skunkworks> 10 and 20 sample averages look pretty close to the same.
[18:59:25] <archivist> is that on a real machine or a sim
[18:59:31] <skunkworks> that is a real machine
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[18:59:58] <archivist> do you have a real stiction/backlash problem
[19:00:06] <skunkworks> (linuxcnc running step/dir -> mesa encoder counter -> halscope
[19:00:28] <skunkworks> archivist: pure stepper openloop machine..
[19:01:48] <archivist> so any real hardware problem could show up
[19:03:42] <skunkworks> http://pastebin.ca/2689643
[19:03:47] <skunkworks> (don't laugh..)
[19:08:37] <pcw_home> You can do it without a loop
[19:09:11] <skunkworks> I am sure it could be done much better.
[19:09:43] <skunkworks> pcw_home, did you see the odd spikes at revearsal? Do you thing reiterating averaging help that?
[19:10:09] <cpresser> skunkworks: any you should check the value of PTA. you will get a segfault (in kernel space!) if PTA is >20
[19:10:29] <skunkworks> cpresser, sure - and it can't be 0...
[19:11:07] <pcw_home> skunkworks: I dont think so (though it would be easier to see whats going on if just X velocity was plotted)
[19:11:23] <skunkworks> oh - I can do that.. :)
[19:15:31] <skunkworks> http://imagebin.org/302917
[19:15:34] <pcw_home> to create the average without the loop, you just add 'in' to the average
[19:15:35] <pcw_home> subtract array ( ptr ) from the average and store 'in' at ptr
[19:15:38] <skunkworks> (not time corrected..)
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[19:18:14] <pcw_home> but at 500 ms/div the time different sis not large on the plot relative to 10/20 ms
[19:19:35] <pcw_home> hard to tell if thats a stepgen artifact or encoder velocity artifact
[19:20:19] <pcw_home> (you should set the stepgen set and hold times very small relative to the step times)
[19:20:27] <pcw_home> setup
[19:20:29] <skunkworks> http://imagebin.org/302918
[19:20:49] <skunkworks> does that help?
[19:21:47] <pcw_home> are the stepgen direction setup and hold times set to minimums?
[19:21:57] <skunkworks> I would have to look
[19:22:08] <pcw_home> thats one possibility
[19:22:38] <pcw_home> (since it happens at reversals)
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[19:23:55] <pcw_home> another possibility is the encoder velocity estimation setting velocity to 0 at reversals
[19:27:59] <skunkworks> setting dirhold and dirsetup didn't seem to effect anything
[19:28:16] <skunkworks> (to 0)
[19:29:04] <skunkworks> from the graph - it doesn't seem to be..
[19:29:12] <skunkworks> (setting velocity to 0)
[19:29:54] <pcw_home> what is the X steprate/scaling?
[19:30:45] <skunkworks> 1500steps/inch
[19:30:49] <skunkworks> software stepgen
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[19:38:07] <pcw_home> if it encoder related you might try setting vel-timeout longer but it looks more like a stepgen artifact
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[19:39:48] <pcw_home> (vel-timeout sets how long the encoder logic will wait for a count change before just giving up and reporting 0 velocity)
[19:40:53] <pcw_home> but that should make a simple deadzone around 0 velocity
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[19:41:48] <skunkworks> it is set to .5 - I set it to 2 and didn't seem to change anything
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[19:46:42] <skunkworks> have to play with it some more... but is close I feel...
[19:47:18] <skunkworks> jeeze - that is in seconds. .5 should have been long enough anyways
[19:47:53] <skunkworks> so - maybe a direction change issue with stepgen?
[19:48:44] <skunkworks> I could change linuxcnc to quadature...
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[19:49:19] <skunkworks> see if it effects anything
[19:54:26] <pcw_home> or try the a hardware stepgen with PID
[19:55:30] <skunkworks> quadature has the same peaks
[19:57:16] <skunkworks> I guess I could feed a 7i80 stepgen back into a 7i80 encoder counter to see if I get the same peaks
[19:58:07] <pcw_home> yes or run the software stepgen in PID mode
[20:00:39] <skunkworks> oh
[20:00:44] <skunkworks> I could try that..
[20:00:49] <skunkworks> tomorrow though..
[20:00:50] <skunkworks> bbl
[20:01:08] <skunkworks> (increasing the scale didn't seem to effect it either)
[20:01:19] <skunkworks> if anything it was worse.. but hard to tell
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[20:49:22] <XXCoder2> fucking wasps
[20:50:41] <andypugh> I suggest not trying that
[20:50:50] <XXCoder2> lol
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[20:51:12] <XXCoder2> they are annoying me though. I cant mow back yard due to wasps
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[20:54:42] <andypugh> Welding helmet, towel and duct tape?
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[20:55:01] <XXCoder2> lol
[20:55:36] <XXCoder2> Star Wars laser system that lock on hz of wings and fire on wasps
[20:55:41] <XXCoder2> waps cant beat light speed
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[20:57:57] <XXCoder2> if yioure curious http://www.nytimes.com/1992/07/21/us/star-wars-x-ray-laser-weapon-dies-as-its-final-test-is-canceled.html
[20:58:59] <XXCoder2> it closed down at 1992, dawn of internet. around time I started using internet
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[20:59:10] <R2E4_> pcw_home: : changed it to port 5, set the scale and vcmd is varying so it is getting the correct voltage.
[20:59:39] <andypugh> XXCoder2: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mosquito_laser
[20:59:43] <R2E4_> spoke with Fanuc, and first line support couldnt help aso he wanted to send me up which would cost 180/hr.
[20:59:59] <XXCoder2> dang
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[21:00:36] <andypugh> It seems to even involve the same people :-)
[21:03:13] <R2E4_> ovr1 and two are correct.s They dont even go out on the connectors.
[21:03:13] <XXCoder2> interesing!
[21:03:13] <XXCoder2> andy I referred to star wars system because one of books used it to protect bees from africianized bees
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