#linuxcnc | Logs for 2014-03-19

[00:00:00] <Jymmm> What can I get from amazon for 70¢ ?
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[00:02:41] <CaptHindsight> with next day shipping?
[00:03:24] <CaptHindsight> MP3's
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[00:03:45] <Jymmm> something tangible
[00:04:10] <CaptHindsight> Google amazon $0.70 there's quite an odd list
[00:05:40] <CaptHindsight> who took my USB RS-232 serial adapter?
[00:06:02] <XXCoder1> plenty of cheap items with expensive shipping lol
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[01:45:49] <CaptHindsight> http://www.ebay.com/itm/370729400325 I keep coming across this. 20 HP spindle, 2-axis
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[02:03:43] <GuShH_> CaptHindsight: buy it for me!
[02:04:00] <GuShH_> if you ship it to my door I'll pay ya 5k!
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[02:21:09] <XXCoder1> 2 axis??
[02:21:12] <XXCoder1> does it not have z?
[02:24:36] <zeeshan> hey
[02:24:43] <zeeshan> http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p252/turbozee84/D062D825-F512-494B-A0A2-DAA0A5C4C233_zps1hxbawdz.jpg
[02:24:43] <XXCoder1> hey
[02:24:47] <zeeshan> anyone know what kind LED that is
[02:24:51] <zeeshan> i need to replace one
[02:25:17] <XXCoder1> just curious whats it for?>
[02:25:51] <zeeshan> http://www.ebay.ca/itm/LED-PUCK-LIGHT-3W-COOL-WHITE-ALUMINUM-LOW-PORFILE-CREE-LED-UNDER-CABINET-/370731137526
[02:25:53] <zeeshan> one of those
[02:26:12] <XXCoder1> so one of em burned out?
[02:26:22] <XXCoder1> or just want change color or something?
[02:26:45] <zeeshan> yea one burnt out
[02:26:46] <zeeshan> =/
[02:26:54] <zeeshan> i accidently connected the wrong power supply to it
[02:26:57] <zeeshan> (dont ask how)
[02:26:58] <zeeshan> lol
[02:27:13] <XXCoder1> maybe check stats out using multimeter and maybe just find matching led?
[02:27:18] <XXCoder1> mA and v
[02:27:26] <zeeshan> the thing is
[02:27:30] <zeeshan> i dont want it to be a different color
[02:27:34] <zeeshan> this is 'soft white'
[02:27:37] <zeeshan> and its extremely bright
[02:27:39] <zeeshan> it was on my drill press
[02:27:45] <XXCoder1> ah yea
[02:27:55] <zeeshan> maybe i should change all 3 of them
[02:27:57] <zeeshan> so they match
[02:28:07] <XXCoder1> random colors for party
[02:28:08] <XXCoder1> jk
[02:28:11] <zeeshan> lol
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[03:03:30] <p0st4L> anyone cut g10 here?
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[04:16:30] <CaptHindsight> zeeshan: you can find those all over ebay, mouser or digikey
[04:17:29] <CaptHindsight> 3x so it's 3 @ 1W white LED's
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[04:17:49] <zeeshan> i cant find em
[04:17:53] <zeeshan> not in that round bulb style
[04:18:00] <CaptHindsight> do you want cool or warm?
[04:18:10] <zeeshan> cool
[04:18:18] <CaptHindsight> you want just the LED;s or the whole thing?
[04:18:24] <zeeshan> just led
[04:18:26] <zeeshan> i need to replace one
[04:22:41] <CaptHindsight> http://www.mouser.com/Cree-Inc/Optoelectronics/LED-Lighting/LED-Emitters/High-Power-LEDs-White/_/N-8usfj?P=1yzs6ioZ1z0ysw2 you can start here and pick your color temp
[04:23:41] <ve7it> http://www.ebay.ca/itm/131141988445
[04:24:15] <CaptHindsight> 2-3 week delivers but the price is right
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[04:25:21] <ve7it> I just bought some red ones like that to build a bike tail light... they are blinding when run at rated current
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[04:28:27] <zeeshan> man
[04:28:29] <zeeshan> you guys are boss
[04:28:37] <zeeshan> fucking awesome
[04:29:07] <zeeshan> ve7it: i use them on my drill press
[04:29:11] <zeeshan> they make a good work light
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[04:31:27] <zeeshan> ve7it: got a u.s. supplier?
[04:32:21] <ve7it> shipping from the US is too expensive now.... I pretty much order from china and wait (3-8weeks)
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[04:37:47] <CaptHindsight> p0st4L: making circuit boards?
[04:37:54] <p0st4L> no, multirotor frames.
[04:38:57] <CaptHindsight> what thickness?
[04:40:23] <CaptHindsight> http://static.rcgroups.net/forums/attachments/2/5/6/1/0/8/a4118177-109-S8302731.jpg
[04:40:32] <CaptHindsight> something like that ^^
[04:41:25] <XXCoder1> quadcoper eh
[04:41:30] <p0st4L> .062
[04:41:46] <p0st4L> something much cooler than that, but ya... a quadcopter
[04:41:48] <CaptHindsight> common pcb thickness
[04:41:53] <p0st4L> yeah, well
[04:41:56] <p0st4L> .062 and .125
[04:42:53] <CaptHindsight> need a router?
[04:43:32] <XXCoder1> talking about routers how do I select one? heh would standard router from shop work>?
[04:43:42] <p0st4L> i have one setup already. fireball v90 w/ dwalt 611
[04:43:43] <XXCoder1> want it to cut metal and alum
[04:43:59] <XXCoder1> er wood and alum that is
[04:44:13] <CaptHindsight> XXCoder1: how thick?
[04:44:26] <p0st4L> linuxcnc defaults to .015 step down per pass
[04:44:31] <p0st4L> wondering if i can change that to like, .05
[04:44:35] <XXCoder1> alum I hope 1 inch thick so I can upgrade cnc
[04:44:59] <CaptHindsight> p0st4L: it's does whatever the G-code tells it
[04:45:25] <p0st4L> ya i know. i'm not looking to see if it will. i'm looking to see if it's recommended at all.
[04:45:30] <p0st4L> this is my first time using my cnc
[04:45:44] <p0st4L> just seems .015 is a bit shallow, i'm pretty sure it could do more
[04:45:48] <p0st4L> i might just have to try and see
[04:46:07] <CaptHindsight> yeah you can change the Z to the minimum that your machine can handle/resolve
[04:46:39] <p0st4L> max*
[04:46:48] <CaptHindsight> p0st4L: how are you generating your G-code?
[04:46:53] <p0st4L> cambam
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[04:47:27] <CaptHindsight> I've never run it but can't you set it for whatever Z you want?
[04:47:35] <p0st4L> :/
[04:47:38] <p0st4L> yes, i can set it to whatever i want
[04:47:55] <p0st4L> i was just asking if anyone had any experience cutting g10, and what z settings they used
[04:48:00] <CaptHindsight> what's the Z res of your router?
[04:48:09] <p0st4L> ? 12 turns per inch?
[04:48:45] <CaptHindsight> it's going to vary a bit depending on what router or mill they have, size f the cutting tool, spindle speed etc etc
[04:49:11] <p0st4L> ok gotcha. ill just have to play with it and see what i can make it do
[04:49:33] <CaptHindsight> you you plunge too deep you'll know it, nut too shallow is not a problem
[04:49:41] <CaptHindsight> nut/but
[04:52:12] <p0st4L> kk
[04:52:14] <p0st4L> thanks for the input
[04:54:01] <CaptHindsight> http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/cnc-machining/fr4-g10-coolant-dry-176161/
[04:54:21] <CaptHindsight> http://forums.openpilot.org/topic/33752-cutting-g10-on-cnc-question/
[04:56:26] <CaptHindsight> http://robbjack.com/technical/speed-and-feed
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[05:08:54] <zeeshan> http://imgur.com/a/NIk6t
[05:09:01] <zeeshan> bouancy driven flow is weird looking
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[06:19:57] <Bushman> ave
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[06:20:45] <tjtr33> awallin has posted some interesting python code for Trajectory Planning. http://www.anderswallin.net/
[06:22:00] <tjtr33> in it, he shows how bang bang ( 1st order) planning has lots of jerk, and 2nd order ( respecting acceleration limits) is smoother
[06:22:15] <Bushman> can anyone help me to understand how the pulse generator for LPT port is works? is it build into linuxcnc or is it something running in the background like driver or something?
[06:23:35] <Bushman> my Z axis still has issues but i still didn't determined the sourceof them for sure
[06:24:40] <Bushman> one of the last things for me to invertigate it my PC's behaviour but i'd need to understand the desigh in order to diagnose it properly
[06:25:03] <tjtr33> type man stepgen if you're wanting to understand stepper pulse generation
[06:27:14] <tjtr33> the stepgen is a small part of linuxcnc, it is part of the position control. periodically, a new position is calculated, and stepgen is used to achieve the new position.
[06:27:33] <Bushman> i see
[06:27:58] * Bushman RsTFM
[06:28:02] <tjtr33> in general, its good to understand, but you might post what you see happen for others to help you.
[06:29:14] <tjtr33> 130am gnite
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[06:30:40] <p0st4L> tjb1, you around?
[06:37:17] <Bushman> does linuxcnc use stepgen in position control or velocity control?
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[07:42:09] * Bushman is confused
[07:42:43] <Bushman> i'm running the test for 10 minutes now and no slipp in steps occured
[07:43:14] <Bushman> but then i run 2 minutes program it can get over 0.2mm error in down direction
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[07:45:49] <Valen> how long did you run the latency test for?
[07:47:43] <Bushman> you mean base jitter can cause lost steps?
[07:47:54] <Bushman> not just jerky unsmooth movement?
[07:48:34] <Bushman> i've stressed is for a while with youtube and stuff like that. i was high but somewhat acceptable
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[07:49:14] <Bushman> but if you can tell me what can go wrong when it's off i'll try to investigate that path too
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[07:51:02] <archivist> the step gen is running in the realtime part of lcnc hence need to reduce latency so a step happens when it should
[07:53:56] <Deejay> moin
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[09:20:20] <Loetmichel> mornin'
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[10:33:46] <MattyMatt> anyone see $3500 of workmanship or materials in this? http://www.pocketnc.com/products/
[10:34:42] <MattyMatt> it's pretty, but not $3500 pretty IMO
[10:40:07] <archivist_herron> profit and cost of sales
[10:40:30] <MattyMatt> arr, and if the market will bear it
[10:40:51] <Loetmichel> if i read that correctly he build it with linear motors
[10:40:53] <archivist_herron> not me because its a bit carp
[10:40:55] <Loetmichel> not steppers
[10:40:59] <Loetmichel> on some axis
[10:41:05] <Loetmichel> that will be very expensive
[10:41:21] <MattyMatt> it's probably cheap compared to what dentists etc use now
[10:42:42] <MattyMatt> are linear steppers still under patent? it seems unlikely as linear motors in general have been around since the 70s at least
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[11:16:21] <archivist_herron> I think there is a glaring design fault with that mill
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[12:41:28] <_methods> heh what program are you going to do toolpaths in for 5 axis lol
[12:42:00] <Loetmichel> _1SheYode: thre gray matter between your ears?
[12:42:06] <Loetmichel> grrr
[12:42:09] <Loetmichel> _methods
[12:42:15] <_methods> lol
[12:42:25] <Loetmichel> tabcompletion fail
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[12:44:37] <_methods> the software to do real 5 axis work will cost more than the machine
[12:46:33] <_methods> https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1091976372/open-source-5-axis-cnc-router-and-plasma-machine-p
[12:52:54] <Bushman> archivist: that makes sense. tho my nquestiou would be what would happen if the step won't happen in the right time? is there a posibility of loosing steps cause stepgen experienced a lag because of some system underperformance?
[12:54:23] <Bushman> gaah... *question
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[13:34:13] <CaptHindsight> _methods: it's a large cheese and foam slicer
[13:34:55] <_methods> it's a 3 y/o dead kickstarter i just thought it was funny
[13:35:42] <_methods> which is about the same thing that the pocketcnc is
[13:36:06] <_methods> and the same issue that existed 3 years ago still exists
[13:36:23] <_methods> software to create 5 axis tool paths will cost more than your machine lol
[13:40:44] <GuShH_> _methods: depends on the machine :/
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[13:40:57] <GuShH_> and your needs! if you have a _need_ chances are you ought to be able to pay for it
[13:41:05] <GuShH_> otherwise it may just be a whim.
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[13:42:51] <GuShH_> Would you reckon 3Nm steppers are enough to CNC a small lathe? reductions could be used.
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[13:43:12] <GuShH_> Which parameters should I take into consideration? Assuming high speed is not a requirement.
[13:43:40] <CaptHindsight> https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/wegotplastic/hd-2-the-worlds-first-high-definition-and-heavy-du?ref=discovery "With its Unique Design, combined w Cold, Hard Aluminum, the revolutionary new HD^2 will bring a new definition to the words Heavy Duty." :)
[13:43:51] <GuShH_> what
[13:44:12] <GuShH_> I don't even want to click that, I fear I might go on a rampage.
[13:44:35] <pcw_home> I guess that's better than hot soft aluminum
[13:44:43] * GuShH_ facepalms
[13:45:15] <GuShH_> perhaps they meant cold extruded? I'm not clicking.
[13:45:20] <CaptHindsight> sure beats room temp wicker
[13:45:28] <GuShH_> hard could just be their way of saying "t6!!!"
[13:45:43] <GuShH_> But it's all marketing bs from where I'm standing.
[13:46:00] <CaptHindsight> https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1516846343/microview-chip-sized-arduino-with-built-in-oled-di?ref=home_popular
[13:46:09] <GuShH_> Stop!
[13:46:17] <GuShH_> I will give you my coffee if you just stop.
[13:46:27] <CaptHindsight> lol
[13:46:45] <GuShH_> Every time I browse that site a part of me dies.
[13:47:01] -!- dnalerom [dnalerom!~dnaleromj@] has joined #linuxcnc
[13:47:08] <CaptHindsight> https://s3.amazonaws.com/ksr/assets/001/729/494/a53a8d25d4579ed7322a7c33b5bc3d40_large.gif?1394454823 looks like you can give this to girls that don't run away from you
[13:47:42] <GuShH_> she already looks untappable and I can't see her.
[13:48:46] -!- terabyte- [terabyte-!~terabyte@c-76-18-21-170.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined #linuxcnc
[13:51:22] <GuShH_> So 3Nm bipolar, can I expect it to drive the leadscrew on a small sized lathe with or without reduction, using micro-stepping?
[13:51:54] <GuShH_> I'm not sure how much force is needed loaded and unloaded (ie free standing or cutting, but it varies with the material and depth of course)
[13:52:06] <jdh> depends on the leadscrew also
[13:52:39] <jdh> what is a small sized lathe?
[13:52:40] <GuShH_> what's the common method to determine stepper size?
[13:52:56] <GuShH_> "buy the biggest you can afford" surely isn't very scientific!
[13:53:01] <jdh> there are documents that detail sizing using loads/inertia/etc.
[13:53:03] <GuShH_> jdh: 750mm
[13:53:05] <CaptHindsight> http://www.micromo.com/microstepping-myths-and-realities.aspx
[13:53:16] <jdh> but, biggest that fits might be as valid
[13:53:26] <jdh> unless big==too slow for your application
[13:53:28] <GuShH_> anything can fit if you are modifying the machine heh
[13:54:03] <jdh> 750mm Z or X?
[13:54:36] <GuShH_> between centers
[13:55:09] <GuShH_> should be around 30 inches
[13:55:24] <GuShH_> in marketing mode (round up) heh
[13:55:58] <jdh> I am working on one at the moment around 500mm. I am using a 3Nm NEMA23 motor
[13:56:21] <GuShH_> those are the one I've been looking at, but it's 3Nm on bipolar mode otherwise it's 2.12
[13:56:23] <jdh> with about 2:1 reduction
[13:56:45] <GuShH_> 4.2A per phase in bipolar
[13:56:55] <GuShH_> 3.2mH or so inductance
[13:57:09] <GuShH_> (bipolar parallel)
[13:57:48] <jdh> actually that is for my Z axis, the X is using a 570oz-in
[13:57:51] <GuShH_> run of the mill 1.8° stepper in nema 23 I guess
[13:58:36] <GuShH_> oh, hefty
[13:58:39] <jdh> have you designed/built your X axis conversion?
[13:58:46] <GuShH_> nothing so far
[13:58:50] <archivist> Bushman, what is you current latency?
[13:59:07] <jdh> Z is mostly trival. X is disheartening.
[13:59:36] <GuShH_> oh?
[13:59:54] <jdh> unless you use the stock screws/nuts
[13:59:58] <GuShH_> well there are two Z axis in a lathe :p
[14:00:23] <jdh> ?
[14:00:42] <GuShH_> apron and compound
[14:01:01] <jdh> I have not seen a reason to keep the compound after CNCing
[14:01:05] <GuShH_> so you're saying the cross-slide is the hardest, due to the coupling or because of modifying the leadscrew?
[14:01:20] <jdh> yes
[14:01:53] <GuShH_> I guess for added rigidity you should get rid of the compound, specially on these smaller machines
[14:02:15] <jdh> using the existing leadscrew/nut is probably simpler, but more likely to have lash/wear, if you care.
[14:02:35] <GuShH_> I got mine adjusted to about 1.25 thou backlash
[14:02:41] <GuShH_> won't go any less without binding
[14:02:49] <jdh> fitting a ballnut to a smallish cross-slide is problematic
[14:02:52] <GuShH_> wear happens every-wear heh
[14:03:17] <GuShH_> jdh: I've seen some people raising the headstock / tailstock and this allowed them to fit a lot more under the cross-slide, since they also raised it
[14:03:20] <jdh> I would think that you would have increased wear with CNC but that's just a guess
[14:03:21] <GuShH_> but it's non trivial
[14:03:53] <GuShH_> yes because with CNC it would see a lot more repeated use unless you _are_ working on the lathe all day long making the same amount of parts
[14:04:11] <jdh> a new cross-slide would seem like a good idea for mine. Tall enough for a ballscrew/nut and to mount tool holding without the compound
[14:04:15] <GuShH_> you reckon the harder motions play a role in wear as well?
[14:04:32] <GuShH_> sounds like a lot of machining!
[14:04:33] <jdh> just a thought I have. No experience/knowledge to back it up.
[14:04:50] <GuShH_> I've seen pictures of converted lathes, they spent more on conversion than the lathe was worth to begin with
[14:05:00] <GuShH_> I'm not going to do that, can't afford it.
[14:05:10] <jdh> you don't turn the cranks more than needed by hand, but with CNC, you will probably return more.
[14:05:18] <GuShH_> I would like to begin with Z automation and work my way up
[14:05:28] <GuShH_> a full conversion often includes a servo motor... kinda expensive for me
[14:05:29] <jdh> I paid $300 for my 9x20 lathe.
[14:05:57] <GuShH_> I guess it depends on how the commands are generated, ie. the software behind it
[14:06:12] <jdh> $125 for steppers, $150 for ballscrews/nuts/bearings.
[14:06:27] <GuShH_> you are already spending more than the lathe was worth, see!
[14:06:40] <GuShH_> but I do see that it will be cheaper than the closest commercial thing
[14:06:52] <GuShH_> and possibly better, if we look at cheap china cnc
[14:07:08] <jdh> mine started out as cheap china lathe
[14:07:22] <R2E4> morning guys.
[14:07:31] <GuShH_> jdh: the compound on these is flawed by design, at least the clamp is... only 2 mounting points on most of these lathes, it allows back and forth rocking motion, which is what you DONT want
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[14:08:00] <GuShH_> a friend made a 4 point plate and it really improved, lot less chatter.
[14:08:07] <GuShH_> I need to get around that.
[14:08:19] <R2E4> My X axis on my cnc router lost power. While it is running, I can hold it with my hand and the motor stall. I switched motors and switched drivers.
[14:09:24] <GuShH_> jdh: where are you on the conversion right now?
[14:09:24] <jdh> I have a 4-bolt mount for mine
[14:09:37] <jdh> Z is mostly complete and working.
[14:09:52] <jdh> X... I go look at it every few days hoping inspiration will strike.
[14:09:59] <GuShH_> did you mount your motor / drive on the right side of the bed for the Z
[14:10:10] <jdh> left, where the gear select was
[14:10:29] <GuShH_> the bushing/bracket for the original leadscrew doesn't have any bearings on mine!
[14:10:35] <GuShH_> at the far right.
[14:10:41] <jdh> I added a chinese ballscrew
[14:10:49] <GuShH_> it forms a steel-iron bushing with a cushion of oil...
[14:11:03] <GuShH_> pre-loaded with a nut and grub screw for locking it
[14:11:03] <jdh> that's all it needs for the original use
[14:11:27] <GuShH_> I'm not sure, seen older lathes use proper bushings at least heh
[14:11:44] <GuShH_> things used to be made to last....
[14:12:05] <jdh> I left my ballscrew free-floating on that side also
[14:12:08] <jdh> but, it is in a bearing.
[14:12:27] <GuShH_> pics?
[14:12:31] <jdh> http://tinyurl.com/qay9gbj
[14:13:10] <GuShH_> 1 letter short of gay that URL
[14:13:22] <jdh> that's ok, we won't judge you.
[14:13:25] <GuShH_> looks very nice
[14:13:28] <GuShH_> haha
[14:13:29] -!- mablae has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
[14:13:45] <GuShH_> I read it as "gay" later on noticed it's a q.
[14:14:01] <GuShH_> looks to be the same castings as my lathe, except for the bed length.
[14:14:12] <jdh> I gave in and drew up an X stepper mounting plate and CAM'ed it. I'll cut it this weekend and see how it goes
[14:14:30] <jdh> I'm going to mount the X ballnut on the headstock side of the cross-slide
[14:14:46] <GuShH_> I don't have a cheap source of ballscrews at the moment, sadly I can't order offshore.
[14:15:32] <jdh> https://www.dropbox.com/s/j8e93aru1ak3q95/x-stepper-plate.pdf
[14:15:34] <GuShH_> "jet" have you no shame, generic china with your name. I would be ashamed. but that's why I'm not rich, I have morals.
[14:16:08] <jdh> I have no idea what you mean by that.
[14:16:26] <GuShH_> these companies, Grizzly, Jet, etc. they don't do jackshit.
[14:16:30] <GuShH_> They just import crap and resell it.
[14:16:41] <jdh> that's all I want them to do.
[14:17:30] <GuShH_> seems yours has a lot of use
[14:17:37] <archivist> there is one importer here that provides a manual on how to make your new shit slightly better
[14:18:28] <jdh> I thought $300 was reasonable for it. Came with 3 chucks, tailstock chuck, live/dead centers, indexable tooling, boring bars, etc.
[14:18:31] <GuShH_> see that 4 mount plate is not original, did you make it?
[14:18:41] <GuShH_> errr I'm not questioning your purchase
[14:18:45] <GuShH_> I just don't like these companies
[14:18:50] <jdh> don't buy from them.
[14:18:55] <GuShH_> I try not to!
[14:19:06] <jdh> what 4 mount plate?
[14:19:16] <GuShH_> except I've found an import company that actually cares, so I will be buying from them when I can.
[14:19:18] <GuShH_> the compound
[14:19:24] <GuShH_> black with 4 non standard bolts
[14:19:36] <jdh> oh, came from A2Z or wtf
[14:19:56] <GuShH_> all standard bolts on these lathes are turned from butter and come in black oxide finish only :)
[14:20:13] <archivist> the rebuild guides http://www.arceurotrade.co.uk/projects.aspx
[14:20:34] <GuShH_> I spent about an hour adjusting the gibs yesterday, at least it's better now.
[14:21:22] <GuShH_> Not sure if the method used was correct, I set a dial indicator by the adjusting screw, opposite side, and rocked the slide back and forth while reading, adjusting and moving it, then proceeded to the other screws, kept it by "zones" then did a full run check
[14:21:25] <jdh> I have replacment gib strips for X. I will remove the carriage and redo that before I finish.
[14:21:45] <GuShH_> It's got 1 thou or so play at the moment, any more and it was binding... because it's not a bronze gib and the finish is horrible.
[14:22:05] <GuShH_> any more (read that as any more adjusting, ie. any less play)
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[14:23:02] <jdh> archivist: nice link! I have two C3 lathes. One is still covered in teh red shipping grease
[14:23:13] <GuShH_> why so many?
[14:23:41] <GuShH_> you should do the mandatory first mod on the one you are converting, a thumb-screw for the belt guard.
[14:23:43] <archivist> jdh, the guides get written over here by someone I know
[14:24:04] <GuShH_> ohhh the threading lever is broken off, how did they manage that?
[14:24:09] <jdh> one I got years ago. The other because it was (relatively) cheap
[14:24:44] <GuShH_> crash and panic? brute force? air in the casting / weakened? heh
[14:24:51] <jdh> I don't plan on ever touching the belt of the one I am converting.
[14:25:29] <GuShH_> seems the apron is slightly different, it's an older version, but it's 80-90% exactly the same as the one I've got
[14:25:32] <jdh> I snapped the half-nut lever on mine. It just crumbled
[14:25:44] <jdh> but, I removed teh entire apron anyway
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[14:26:18] <GuShH_> heh you can actually see he mostly used the gears from 4 to 9 for finer feeds
[14:27:13] <GuShH_> banjo had the biggest gear set on the lower portion, odd
[14:27:59] <GuShH_> jdh: did you replace the pin on the original leadscrew or was it like that when you got it? looks like it has been crashed :p
[14:28:22] <GuShH_> not that it matters for what you're doing
[14:28:41] <GuShH_> spindle bearings are ok?
[14:28:46] <jdh> All I did was remove teh original leadscrew
[14:28:49] <GuShH_> they sometimes get shot from casting sand
[14:39:32] <CaptHindsight> http://www.ebay.com/itm/370729400325 I keep coming across this. 20 HP spindle, 2-axis
[14:40:03] <CaptHindsight> archivist: is the chuck not shown in any of the pics? ^^
[14:41:34] <archivist> extra?
[14:42:02] -!- GammaX [GammaX!~Gamma-X@unaffiliated/gammax] has joined #linuxcnc
[14:42:04] <GammaX> hey all
[14:42:19] <GammaX> Anyone have a manual southbend lathe?
[14:42:29] <GuShH_> jdh: I guess if speed is not a requirement and it's not pretending to become a production machine, a conversion can be as simple as a bunch of brackets, belts, steppers and pulleys right?
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[14:44:20] <archivist> really posh iron http://www.ebay.com/itm/6-SIP-HYDROPTIC-6-BRIDGE-TYPE-PRECISION-JIG-BORER-26341-/370728716804?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item5651274a04
[14:44:30] <archivist> GammaX, yup :)
[14:45:13] <archivist> GammaX, http://www.collection.archivist.info/searchv13.php?searchstr=southbend
[14:46:44] <CaptHindsight> really nice drill press
[14:47:15] <GuShH_> jdh: did you check the fit on the cross slide + bed with layout dye to see where the contact areas were?
[14:48:26] <archivist> layout dye is not for fitting!
[14:48:36] <GuShH_> archivist: hm?
[14:48:48] <GuShH_> and I'm not a fitter, never will be. I'll shoot my balls off first.
[14:49:11] <archivist> the fitting blue stays damp and is thinner
[14:49:29] <GuShH_> there are many types of layout dye, some is slow dry others are fast dry!
[14:50:04] <GuShH_> I have what you call "fitting blue" that almost never dries, takes a whole day, must use water for the "solvent" but it's horrible stuff.
[14:51:01] <jdh> haven't yet. I am planning on disassembling everything after I get it working
[14:51:14] <GuShH_> archivist: here in argentina it's sold as prussian blue, there's only just "the one" and comes in a sort of toothpaste tube.
[14:51:30] <jdh> I have some spray prussian blue
[14:51:39] <archivist> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/THE-ORIGINAL-STUARTS-MICROMETER-ENGINEERS-BLUE-38g-TIN-PRUSSIAN-BLUE-NEW-/201053092504?pt=UK_BOI_Metalworking_Milling_Welding_Metalworking_Supplies_ET&hash=item2ecfb2ba98
[14:52:15] <archivist> the horrible blue for fitting is the right stuff
[14:52:32] <GuShH_> archivist: for layout of tiny parts I've used sharpie... am I going to hell?
[14:52:46] <archivist> mine is awol I need to get some more
[14:53:02] <GuShH_> it's horrible, never dries, sometimes drips out and stains everything.
[14:53:06] <CaptHindsight> http://www.ebay.com/itm/370902413813 I come across these for free, if you can remove it
[14:53:13] <archivist> that is the real stuff :)
[14:53:45] <GuShH_> nice turret lathe
[14:54:08] <archivist> we have old Ward lathes like that in this country
[14:54:18] <GuShH_> CaptHindsight: get some! go as far as taking them apart if you only have a car heh
[14:54:26] <GuShH_> I would.
[14:55:15] <GuShH_> they are mostly obsolete for big industries, but for most hobbyists and small start-ups they're excellent machines.
[14:55:23] <CaptHindsight> http://www.ebay.com/itm/370706504055 HORIZONTAL BORING MILL, but look at the size!
[14:56:09] <CaptHindsight> GuShH_: I have the space and shop but not the time
[14:56:20] <GuShH_> 18 tons!
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[14:57:45] <GuShH_> can any existing backlash be easily "dealt with" in software all the time, or is it never a constant characteristic?
[14:58:18] <GuShH_> (given possible localized wear and other parameters)
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[14:58:36] <archivist> often on an old machine the backlash varies with distance
[14:58:46] <CaptHindsight> is the screw worn evenly?
[14:58:54] <archivist> so its a pigs ear
[14:59:02] <GuShH_> it's almost always worn a lot more near the spindle on a lathe, including the ways/bed
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[14:59:20] <GuShH_> some very used very old lathes have VISIBLE wear on the bed!
[14:59:35] <GuShH_> and if not visible you can feel it with your hand
[14:59:47] <archivist> my lathes are well worn
[14:59:52] <GuShH_> amazing what 10s of years of work does to the poor thing
[15:00:19] <GuShH_> archivist: I'd rather have one of yours than 5 chinese lathes
[15:00:25] <GuShH_> specially a southbend, atlas, etc
[15:00:44] <archivist> I have had to twiddle the settings while turning a long shaft :)
[15:00:54] <Loetmichel> archivist: so refit the old lathe with a ballscrew instead of a TrapezodiaL LEADSCREWß
[15:01:00] <Loetmichel> ups, capslock
[15:01:11] <GuShH_> have you ever noticed chatter patterns when turning without a steady?
[15:01:14] <archivist> the bed needs a regrind
[15:01:25] <Loetmichel> thats what scraping is for ,-)
[15:01:30] <archivist> chatter is always a problem
[15:01:57] <archivist> Loetmichel, this is 60 years beyond scraping
[15:02:06] <GuShH_> archivist: I got "disco ball" chatter patterns on some aluminum tubing yesterday
[15:02:12] <GuShH_> and near the headstock too
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[15:02:25] <archivist> adjust speed and tooling
[15:02:40] <archivist> and lubricant
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[15:03:04] <GuShH_> archivist: I didn't have a steady and it was 10mm od, 3mm wall aluminum tubing (6063 T6 or so)
[15:03:11] <GuShH_> it's very bendy without a steady
[15:03:24] <archivist> I have sometimes held either the tool or work to damp the vibration
[15:03:26] <GuShH_> also a big contact area on the tool
[15:03:49] <archivist> take a finer cut
[15:03:52] <GuShH_> my steadies have brass fingers, don't seem to work very well with aluminum
[15:04:22] <GuShH_> the cuts were half a meter long, it's like butter by the middle portion.
[15:04:30] <archivist> light bendy work needs a light cut
[15:04:43] <GuShH_> yes!
[15:04:51] <Loetmichel> archivist: so use a hand grinder, some moglice and then scrape it ;-)
[15:04:57] <GuShH_> or it needs to go back to the drawing board
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[15:05:23] <CaptHindsight> GuShH_: kickstarter wasn't big enough for these guys, they went out and just hired bankers http://www.3ders.org/articles/20140313-3d-metal-printer-maker-slm-solutions-hires-bankers-to-plot-ipo.html
[15:06:01] * GuShH_ grabs his head
[15:06:03] <GuShH_> please make it stop
[15:06:47] <CaptHindsight> but they do have practical tech, it's just a bit slow
[15:07:29] <GuShH_> archivist: I find the patterns fascinating https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k_fZchWNZeE
[15:08:19] <archivist> that is revolting!
[15:09:12] <CaptHindsight> it's for decorative finishes :)
[15:09:28] <GuShH_> archivist: oh but remove your machinist eyes to watch that
[15:09:35] <GuShH_> I've never seen such patterns.
[15:09:48] <GuShH_> it did not make chatter noises.
[15:10:12] <GuShH_> but I did find the tube was very slightly bent, it was held between centers though. could this spring/tension be the culprit?
[15:10:14] <CaptHindsight> the groves get wider to the right
[15:10:42] <GuShH_> the pattern got interesting by the headstock, all the rest was regular chatter marks
[15:10:44] <Loetmichel> GuShH_: uhhh, thats a BIT of chatter ;-)
[15:10:51] <archivist> the frequency depended on the harmonic being excited
[15:11:00] <GuShH_> it's FASCINATING not revolting!
[15:11:35] <GuShH_> of course I had to bring it down to 8mm, so no harm done on that light pass.
[15:12:09] <CaptHindsight> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UKpV_GslZOM it didn't sound like this?
[15:12:20] <archivist> you need a sliding head lather for long thin work
[15:12:30] <GuShH_> a what
[15:12:40] <GuShH_> I have a follow steady but the fingers are not correct for aluminum
[15:13:01] <GuShH_> CaptHindsight: OH GOD no.
[15:13:07] <GuShH_> why the hell is it chattering like that?
[15:13:15] <GuShH_> you hit the stop switch when you hear that.
[15:13:33] <GuShH_> too deep of a cut, chuck not gripping properly?
[15:13:36] <archivist> note he leans on the chuck with something, headstock bearings bad
[15:13:40] <CaptHindsight> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OHRUPrKyFEM yikes
[15:13:43] <GuShH_> ah
[15:13:50] <GuShH_> archivist: or needs adjustment on the preload?
[15:14:12] <archivist> parallel bush types dont have preload
[15:14:13] <GuShH_> well parting is always a hard operation
[15:14:43] <GuShH_> archivist: old school
[15:14:56] <archivist> slow down when parting
[15:16:22] <GuShH_> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LWvTD9LCzbk
[15:18:06] <CaptHindsight> I read some other threads on cnczone about Automation technologies (Keiling) routers....
[15:18:48] <GuShH_> archivist: thoughts on aquarium pumps for coolant?
[15:18:50] <CaptHindsight> same complaints as mine, poor quality assembly and how they hold the ballscrew bearings
[15:19:09] <GuShH_> I got one as an experiment but it was too weak, I need at least 20W
[15:19:10] <CaptHindsight> no matter what size router
[15:20:48] <CaptHindsight> GuShH_: http://www.automationtechnologiesinc.com/products-page/cnc-spindle/200-gph-miniature-submersible-fountain-pump
[15:21:06] <GuShH_> yup those
[15:21:16] <GuShH_> but mine was smaller, so it didn't cut the mustard.
[15:21:23] <CaptHindsight> sump pumps
[15:21:36] <CaptHindsight> they can also handle chips
[15:21:40] <GuShH_> I want something small, noiseless
[15:21:53] <GuShH_> nah sump pumps are way too powerful and noisy for me
[15:22:22] <GuShH_> I have one I use on the pool, it's not terribly noisy but it's way too big.
[15:22:55] <CaptHindsight> there are magnetic coupled aquarium types
[15:23:08] <GuShH_> I think the one you linked to should work
[15:23:24] <GuShH_> I just got a very weak one that wouldn't raise the liquid high enough with the pressure I was after
[15:23:33] <GuShH_> not an issue though got a refund
[15:24:11] <GuShH_> a real coolant pump from old lathes / mills would be ideal, but they are BIG
[15:24:26] <GuShH_> http://mla-s2-p.mlstatic.com/bombas-refrigerantes-para-soluble-8100-MLA5322520228_112013-F.jpg
[15:24:35] <GuShH_> http://mla-s2-p.mlstatic.com/bomba-liquido-agua-soluble-refrigerante-5332-MLA4339946954_052013-F.jpg
[15:24:43] <GuShH_> oh god look at that wiring job.
[15:24:48] <GuShH_> very professional
[15:25:09] <CaptHindsight> who has low cost 3p ~1.5hp motors?
[15:28:20] <CaptHindsight> http://www.automationtechnologiesinc.com/products-page/cnc-spindle/kl-vfd03-300w-mini-type-integrated-universal-inverter-vfd anyone try this one?
[15:28:35] <humble_sea_bass> I'm adding that wiring job to my big book of pump no nos
[15:29:06] <CaptHindsight> your book of how not to do things?
[15:29:42] <humble_sea_bass> yeah I show it to contractors that disappoint me.
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[15:30:40] <humble_sea_bass> you have to become a disappoint jewish nana when you admonish them
[15:31:04] <CaptHindsight> oy vey!
[15:31:35] <GuShH_> :D
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[15:32:31] <skroon> hi all
[15:34:00] <GammaX> archivist, my buddy has a southbend and it is suuuuper slow... seems like a slipping clutch or something?
[15:34:43] <archivist> GammaX, clutch.... belt drive, adjust
[15:35:21] <archivist> you lift the motor to change speed and stop
[15:35:28] <GammaX> archivist, no idea how to do it... have any links? The belt drive it tight.
[15:36:43] <archivist> look at that link I gave, top two images show the adjuster on mine
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[15:37:28] <archivist> varies the motor relative to the handle
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[15:37:44] <GammaX> thanks!
[15:38:05] <archivist> if his machine is similar :)
[15:38:55] <archivist> also look at the rear behind the handle
[15:39:08] <CaptHindsight> https://tinyurl.com/kt3hdll 2000W SCR PWM control only $5.62
[15:40:04] <archivist> only for brush/acdc motors
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[15:40:39] <CaptHindsight> like old gear lathes
[15:41:40] <GammaX> archivist, looks to be almost identical...
[15:41:43] <archivist> one should have an induction motor
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[15:42:53] <archivist> GammaX, one part adjusts the V belts and the other the flat belt, becomes obvious when you sit down on the floor and look in
[15:43:27] <GammaX> didnt know there was v belts in there!
[15:43:33] <archivist> you may need to shorten the flatbelt if old and stretched
[15:44:39] <archivist> motor is below v to the left up to the flat pulley above http://www.collection.archivist.info/showresult.php?prog=1&srcprog=searchv13.php&srcdata=title&Type=PD&Accn_no=8370&subject=25157
[15:45:46] <archivist> the front left adjuster is for the V, the upper plate to the right had the other adjuster to the handle
[15:45:47] <GammaX> theres 2 pieces to the upper area... the belt drive and clutch type system where the chuck hooks into..
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[15:46:13] <GammaX> the belt drive has no problem spinning and gripping...
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[15:46:39] <CaptHindsight> wow automation direct 2hp 3p 3600rpm motors for only $127
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[15:47:30] <archivist> there is also a pin on the back gear that should be engaged if not using the back gear
[15:47:30] <GammaX> id preffer a nice baldor from ebay or craigslist..
[15:47:49] <GammaX> do you have a photo archivist
[15:48:03] <archivist> hold on....
[15:48:10] <GammaX> thanks!
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[15:59:12] <GuShH_> ok at 80 usd a liter of cutting fluid, I think I'm going to have to make my own...
[15:59:15] <archivist> GammaX, http://www.collection.archivist.info/archive/DJCPD/PD/2014/2014_03_19_Southbend/
[15:59:51] <GuShH_> are they sulphur based these days?
[16:00:17] <GammaX> GuShH_, motor oil, water, soap.
[16:00:32] <GuShH_> GammaX: and what do you use to defoam? and the proportions?
[16:00:42] <GuShH_> soap or detergent?
[16:00:42] <GammaX> archivist, yeah same thing.... hes missing the peice over the clutch system.
[16:00:58] <archivist> GammaX, pic one, engaged, three in back gear position towards the spindle
[16:01:03] <GammaX> GuShH_, no idea! saw it on practical machinist.
[16:01:29] <GuShH_> how long would it last? why not use diluted glycol instead of plain water?
[16:01:50] <GammaX> GuShH_, was a home made recipe thats easy and cheap
[16:01:58] <GammaX> 5 bucks a gallon as I remember.
[16:01:58] <GuShH_> well, car coolant... should have rust inhibitors
[16:02:05] <archivist> old engine oil, or axle oil for high pressure lube
[16:02:10] <GuShH_> the detergent would allow the oil to mix in
[16:02:26] <archivist> I never use water based
[16:02:32] <GuShH_> but what to use to defoam
[16:02:34] <GuShH_> archivist: what do you use?
[16:02:43] <archivist> any old oil :)
[16:02:54] <GuShH_> I don't want used motor-oil in contact with my skin for over 5 minutes a week.
[16:03:07] <GuShH_> any more and I consider it a stupid risk
[16:03:15] <GammaX> archivist, on image 1736 what is that ping that sticks out fromthe clutch system?
[16:03:38] <GuShH_> thing is, motor oil is not cutting oil and it's not coolant either
[16:03:47] <archivist> GammaX, that is the back gear dog clutch
[16:03:53] <GammaX> GuShH_, wear gloves, anything else in a machine shop is prolly more caustic.
[16:04:04] <CaptHindsight> you don't want to use auto antifreeze in your cutting fluid, Ethylene glycol isn't good for you
[16:04:08] <GuShH_> GammaX: lots of nasties in old motor oil
[16:04:19] <GammaX> GuShH_, like what?
[16:04:25] <GuShH_> CaptHindsight: oh?, tell that to your health agencies
[16:05:18] <archivist> us older folk dont scare so easy and we are not dead yet form all these nasties
[16:05:36] <GuShH_> skin cancer takes a while
[16:05:54] <archivist> dont go out in the sun then
[16:06:01] <GammaX> archivist, I cant get that thing to move!
[16:06:19] <GuShH_> CaptHindsight: seems most are propylene glycol now?
[16:06:21] <archivist> GammaX, pull out its on a spring
[16:06:22] <CaptHindsight> oh the UV is dangerous
[16:06:42] <GuShH_> lots of old mechanics with skin problems...
[16:07:05] <archivist> GammaX, then rotate the pulley while lifting the pin outwards to engage
[16:07:06] <GuShH_> I get a rash when I've been in contact with used oil for a while
[16:07:09] <GammaX> archivist, I can seem to get it to pull out cause its hitting the oil cap housing.
[16:07:32] <archivist> it only moves an 1/8" ish
[16:07:49] <GammaX> archivist, will that make it engage properly and move faster?
[16:08:05] <archivist> it is effin awkward till you are used to moving it
[16:08:20] <CaptHindsight> well rash and toxic don't have to be related, some people have cold urticaria and get a rash from the cold
[16:08:20] <GuShH_> archivist: but I do have a question, at the big stores they sell "tempering oil" and I wonder if it isn't just used oil.
[16:08:46] <GuShH_> what can it possibly have? I'm not an expert although I do know the basics of steel tempering
[16:09:20] <archivist> just the way it boils and cools the steel and does not give off nasty fumes
[16:09:31] <GuShH_> what if it does
[16:09:41] <archivist> dont panic
[16:09:49] <GuShH_> no, might as well use the old motor oil.
[16:10:19] <GuShH_> they claim better grain and more uniform structure, longer oil life
[16:11:02] <archivist> GammaX, the middle pic shows the other belt adjuster
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[16:11:39] <archivist> out of focus I see
[16:12:15] <GammaX> yeah like I said there all tite...
[16:12:43] <GuShH_> nice crud
[16:12:44] <GammaX> its jsut that the spindle is turning at like 180 rpm's maby?
[16:14:37] <archivist> use a higher pulley
[16:14:37] <GammaX> belt is all the way to the left.
[16:14:37] <archivist> you have 8 speeds to play with, those machines were never fast
[16:14:39] <archivist> is the back gear spinning ?
[16:14:54] <GammaX> getting that dog bone to the outer limit.. what will that accomplish?
[16:15:10] <GammaX> yes, back gear is engaged.
[16:15:11] <archivist> top left lever is it towards you or away
[16:15:40] <archivist> dis engage back gear that is the low speed range
[16:16:26] <GammaX> archivist, yeah it speed up a lot when I disengage but then when I try and turn some steel the belt slips.
[16:17:01] <archivist> pull out the dog clutch pin, lift towards you while rotating the pulley, the pin will drop in
[16:17:46] <archivist> I tend to use the bottom speed in the high range
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[16:17:52] <GammaX> archivist, that will lock it in?
[16:18:00] <archivist> flat belts were never good
[16:18:05] <archivist> yes
[16:18:14] <GammaX> by locking that in what will that do?
[16:18:41] <archivist> engage the fast speeds (direct)
[16:18:55] <GammaX> nice!
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[16:30:03] <archivist> hmm gone quiet must be a happy bunny playing with the lathe
[16:30:22] <archivist> I replaced the out of focus pic
[16:31:59] <XXCoder1> MattyMatt: pretty indeed, probably high price due to cuastom made parts, wouldnt buy it.
[16:32:47] <XXCoder1> oh irc client didnt scroll. bah heh
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[16:33:02] <XXCoder1> he was talking about http://www.pocketnc.com/products/
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[16:46:50] <CaptHindsight> replace the spindle with an inkjet head or micronozzle and you'd have a nice multi-axis printer
[16:47:01] <GammaX> archivist, no happy bunny yet gotta get over to the shop and check it out
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[16:48:21] <GammaX> rewired a kalamazoo h-12 band saw yesterday. full hydraulic... was insane!
[16:48:41] <XXCoder1> capt not bad idea lol
[16:48:54] <XXCoder1> like I would spend 3,500 male deers for it :P
[16:49:37] <CaptHindsight> http://www.automationtechnologiesinc.com/products-page/cnc-router/cnc-router-rotational-axis-the-4th-axis but the res probably isn't much better than using these
[16:50:02] <CaptHindsight> you can only do so much for $3500 new
[16:50:02] <XXCoder1> nice! addon to any 3d cnc eh
[16:50:18] <archivist> ouch stepper and belt for a rotary
[16:51:04] <archivist> I have seen some of the other pics for that 3500 toy and that is belt internal too
[16:51:09] <CaptHindsight> http://www.pocketnc.com/products/ what can they possibly have in the for only $3500 list?
[16:51:20] <CaptHindsight> ok, figures
[16:51:34] <humble_sea_bass> CaptHindsight: do you have this 4th axis from AT?
[16:52:01] <archivist> I dont think he would be that silly :)
[16:52:31] <CaptHindsight> humble_sea_bass: no, I don't have any need for anything like that, but I am heading over there later today
[16:53:00] <humble_sea_bass> take a look at it and tell me if the build quality is hot garbage or not
[16:53:21] <humble_sea_bass> I was going to grab the one from sherline, but have been on the fence
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[16:53:58] <archivist> the sherline is at least worm drive
[16:54:22] <archivist> even if over sold
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[16:56:25] <humble_sea_bass> ok chicken time
[16:57:10] <CaptHindsight> humble_sea_bass: most of the machines I have are like this, with all linear servos
[16:57:19] <CaptHindsight> http://imagebin.org/index.php?mode=image&id=300374
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[17:01:59] <archivist> I just reviewed the sherline text, he seems to have updated it.
[17:05:41] <CaptHindsight> lots of mini 4th axis drives with chucks on ebay, some belt drive some look gear reduced
[17:06:11] <CaptHindsight> http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/MTM3OFgxNjAw/z/zh8AAMXQVERS3OZQ/$_57.JPG
[17:06:29] <XXCoder1> I guess theres gearbox inside
[17:06:43] <CaptHindsight> vs http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/NjczWDc1MA==/z/IAEAAMXQHDlRcLbt/$T2eC16NHJIYE9qUcM8VuBRcLbtvlDg~~60_3.JPG
[17:06:46] <XXCoder1> planetary gear or somthing
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[17:07:18] <CaptHindsight> also two types of tilt tables http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/MTQ3MVgxNjAw/$%28KGrHqN,!qME+n%289!cdiBQGqfWmfsw~~60_57.JPG
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[17:07:41] <XXCoder1> rotate and tilt?
[17:08:01] <CaptHindsight> http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/MTA2NlgxNjAw/z/6yYAAOxyni9TBgd2/$_57.JPG
[17:08:44] <CaptHindsight> https://tinyurl.com/kel9y9z all under $500
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[17:12:56] <GuShH_> well the homemade coolant seems to do it's job, but will it rust the heck out of my machine? we'll see tomorrow.
[17:13:07] <GuShH_> in theory the water should evaporate leaving the oil behind
[17:13:23] <CaptHindsight> red oxide treated
[17:13:31] * GuShH_ slaps CaptHindsight
[17:13:35] <XXCoder1> heard its in style now
[17:13:50] * GuShH_ slaps XXCoder1 for good measure
[17:14:08] <XXCoder1> ow my stand-in dummy got nice dent on face now
[17:14:22] <CaptHindsight> plays the lumberjack song
[17:14:30] <GuShH_> it was just a friendly slap! don't call the donut eating monsters!
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[17:17:26] <GuShH_> eek the residue is horrible, it's worse than plain motor oil due to the detergent... but it cleans the part a lot better than plain oil, and it cuts better too.
[17:17:30] <CaptHindsight> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bfcy2JBdSA0
[17:18:11] <CaptHindsight> GuShH_: what's in your mix?
[17:18:12] <GuShH_> post traumatic stress from the war, at work.
[17:18:23] * GuShH_ hides
[17:18:49] <GuShH_> you know how I know those are not real germans? there's no beer to be seen anywhere near them. you don't dress like that unless you're about to drink several gallons of beer.
[17:19:42] <GuShH_> 15 parts water 1 part oil, a dribble of detergent. might try using more oil later
[17:20:02] <GuShH_> you get a white soapy substance that looks like cheap coolant
[17:20:22] <XXCoder1> use beer as lubcant ;)
[17:20:28] <GuShH_> hah
[17:20:30] <XXCoder1> probably would start fire
[17:20:35] <GuShH_> nah
[17:20:44] <CaptHindsight> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emulsion
[17:20:56] <GuShH_> yes, I've made mayo a few times.
[17:21:31] <CaptHindsight> egg based coolant
[17:21:39] <GuShH_> could work.
[17:21:45] <GuShH_> in fact it -would- work if you thinned it down some
[17:21:52] <GuShH_> but he smell would be horrible.
[17:21:55] <XXCoder1> mayo is pretty cheap
[17:22:04] <GuShH_> it would smell like rotten eggs in no time.
[17:22:16] <XXCoder1> unless you run machine in referated area lol
[17:22:21] <GuShH_> XXCoder1: you should do it, that way you'll get featured in HackaDay
[17:22:39] <CaptHindsight> the oil and water with the surfactant to make the emulsion
[17:22:41] <GuShH_> I'll try hot sauce for the brothers.
[17:23:05] <XXCoder1> heh its almost like we are discussing sauces for some meal
[17:23:09] <GuShH_> (I've never seen a black person eat mayo)
[17:23:15] <GuShH_> (I'm serious)
[17:23:30] <GuShH_> (I'm a hot sauce guy anyway)
[17:23:43] <XXCoder1> I almost drink hot sauce
[17:24:04] <GuShH_> must figure out a way to mix it with the coffee.
[17:24:11] <XXCoder1> easy
[17:24:17] <GuShH_> without it tasting horrible.
[17:24:33] <XXCoder1> do microdrop of pure caspician
[17:24:55] <GuShH_> sounds dangerous
[17:24:57] <XXCoder1> make sure its VERY small drop. or mix drop with around liter of water to mix into coffee
[17:25:22] <XXCoder1> one drop in liter makes one liter of pretty damn hot sauce with no taste
[17:26:18] <XXCoder1> 38 million btu isnt nice stuff
[17:26:24] <CaptHindsight> time for a sammich
[17:26:26] <XXCoder1> regular store stuff is 1k
[17:26:38] <XXCoder1> most I ever went was 10k and dang is it hot
[17:27:02] <XXCoder1> there is people who use pepper spray protector on food. that's hmm 100k?
[17:27:22] * GuShH_ puts some hot sauce on CaptHindsight's sammich
[17:27:36] <GuShH_> XXCoder1: seriously?
[17:27:37] <GuShH_> haha
[17:27:38] * XXCoder1 adds drop of caspician to make hot sauce hotter
[17:27:59] <XXCoder1> lemme find site
[17:28:20] <GuShH_> better try to make a pump myself first, second attempt that is... I want something sturdy and I want multiples...
[17:28:31] <XXCoder1> oh got some info wrong, been couple years
[17:28:37] <XXCoder1> http://www.hotsauce.com/Scoville-Hot-Sauce-Heat-Scale-s/78.htm
[17:29:03] <XXCoder1> Common Pepper Spray 1,150,000 - 2,000,000
[17:29:55] <XXCoder1> oh yeah not 10k but 100k on habanero
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[17:34:04] <CaptHindsight> http://www.ebay.com/itm/USB-LED-Digital-200X-Zoom-Microscope-handheld-2-MP-Video-Camera-Cam-/310737754463?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item485969d95f
[17:35:04] <CaptHindsight> maybe some version of these with actual specs might be usable for automated alignment
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[17:44:12] <CaptHindsight> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Metal-Endoscope-Real-5-0MP-500X-USB-Microscope-Digital-Magnifier-Camera-w-Stand-/121226633149?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1c39ab9fbd
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[17:50:49] <XXCoder1> there ya go
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[17:52:02] <IchGuckLive> hi all
[17:52:09] <XXCoder1> hey
[17:52:39] <IchGuckLive> XXCoder1: you are the new CNC junky without any cnc ?
[17:52:57] <XXCoder1> yeah not enough money atm lol
[17:52:58] <IchGuckLive> O.O i got to many to count
[17:53:20] <humble_sea_bass> turn to crime
[17:53:42] <XXCoder1> maybe at feb 31st
[17:53:45] <IchGuckLive> XXCoder1: 200USD is min to start if not hoing homedepo mill
[17:53:46] <archivist> CaptHindsight, item 350333329110
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[17:54:04] <CaptHindsight> http://www.automationtechnologiesinc.com/products-page/digital-stepper-motor-driver just FYI all of these have a serial port for setting the drive parameters except for the 3-axis MX3660
[17:54:27] <XXCoder1> just 200usd?> seemed to me that I would need $200 just for motor kit
[17:54:57] <IchGuckLive> XXCoder1: start loww upgrate high
[17:55:18] <CaptHindsight> archivist: I see that same design in a range or res from 1-9.1MP
[17:55:40] <CaptHindsight> I wondering about that lens
[17:55:47] <archivist> what lens :)
[17:56:03] <CaptHindsight> it's C-mount
[17:56:20] <archivist> designed to sit in a microscope tube
[17:56:56] <CaptHindsight> ok
[17:57:13] <CaptHindsight> byo objective
[17:58:01] <humble_sea_bass> I thought the MX3660 was 4 axis
[17:58:12] <CaptHindsight> only 3
[17:58:25] <CaptHindsight> and no serial for setting parameters
[17:58:35] <humble_sea_bass> jumpers?
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[17:58:58] <CaptHindsight> jumpers + IO for E-stop, home, limit etc
[17:59:35] <CaptHindsight> if you want a drive you can tune then you need a 1 axis version
[17:59:51] <CaptHindsight> I wish the website was more clear
[18:00:09] <CaptHindsight> I came home with the mx3660 thinking i could tune it
[18:00:11] <XXCoder1> ich yeah but then mere motor and controllers kit is around $130 or so+shipping, then I still need rest of stuff
[18:01:48] <CaptHindsight> http://www.ebay.com/itm/141221140603 looks like those 9.1MP bodies start around $200
[18:02:54] <CaptHindsight> just found some 14MP for $300
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[18:03:25] <CaptHindsight> http://www.ebay.com/itm/400677670705
[18:05:29] <CaptHindsight> need to find one that is narrow to easily mount near the spindle
[18:06:09] <XXCoder1> wonder if making it mountable like router bit to accurately place would work
[18:06:48] <Loetmichel> XXCoder1: i would rather mount it BESIDE the spindle
[18:06:58] <Loetmichel> at a known distance
[18:07:06] <Loetmichel> may be 50mm away or so
[18:07:08] <CaptHindsight> fixed mounting with fixed offset
[18:07:16] <XXCoder1> ok
[18:07:17] <Loetmichel> so you can offest it accordingly
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[18:07:37] <XXCoder1> can always add it to router holder parts
[18:07:46] <CaptHindsight> you guys kelp find the cameras and I'll finish up the software
[18:07:46] <XXCoder1> couple holes added
[18:07:58] <Loetmichel> and if you do it right it can also serve for supervizing the machine over network
[18:08:13] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=14199
[18:08:17] <Loetmichel> like this ;-)
[18:08:54] <humble_sea_bass> new oculus rift devkit on sale today, you can use it to supervise in first person view, and toss your cookies at once
[18:09:20] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=13060 <- or this. i actually sat in the bathtub while that part was running ;-)
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[18:09:40] <GuShH_> Loetmichel: TMI
[18:09:52] <Loetmichel> why?
[18:10:00] <GuShH_> bathtub, I pictured you.
[18:10:02] <humble_sea_bass> no. the fact that the tub was full of yogurt is TMI
[18:10:05] <Loetmichel> harhahr
[18:10:08] <GuShH_> >_<
[18:10:09] <XXCoder1> lol
[18:10:29] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=7555 <- like this ;-)
[18:10:41] <GuShH_> hahahaha
[18:10:54] <GuShH_> you must be kidding!
[18:11:02] <Loetmichel> (yeah, i know, the tiles are awful)
[18:11:03] <Loetmichel> ;-)
[18:11:06] <CaptHindsight> ok, now I'm not going to work on it
[18:11:26] <GuShH_> they're not bad, I like them
[18:11:37] <Loetmichel> why must i be kidding?
[18:11:42] <GuShH_> I have plain white tiles and they're ugly by comparison
[18:11:51] <GuShH_> who takes a bath with a laptop!
[18:11:56] <Loetmichel> i do :-=
[18:11:57] <Loetmichel> )
[18:12:07] * GuShH_ chuckles
[18:12:13] <XXCoder1> I dobnt use tub but shower so yeah not using laptop there anytime soon
[18:12:27] <Loetmichel> XXCoder1: wrong laptop
[18:12:31] <GuShH_> XXCoder1: maybe the new iphone?
[18:12:37] <XXCoder1> apple ugh
[18:12:40] <GuShH_> if you are into apple crap
[18:12:42] <Loetmichel> my company can sell you one that would work in the shower ;-)
[18:12:45] <GuShH_> or find something that is waterproof
[18:12:48] <CaptHindsight> need to change this imagery
[18:12:56] <GuShH_> haha
[18:13:10] <GuShH_> but will it work under heavy strain while on the toilet?
[18:13:14] <GuShH_> can it handle the flexing?
[18:13:35] <GuShH_> Loetmichel: what were you machining?
[18:13:38] <Loetmichel> our laptops are made for soldiers...
[18:13:44] <Loetmichel> so yes it could
[18:13:47] <Loetmichel> ;-)
[18:13:55] <CaptHindsight> bathtub battles?
[18:13:58] <Loetmichel> a holder for the new HF spindle
[18:14:03] <GuShH_> oh
[18:14:14] <GuShH_> no coolant setup?
[18:14:30] <Loetmichel> no
[18:14:35] <GuShH_> it really improves the surface quality :/
[18:14:41] <Loetmichel> my machine is so small
[18:14:46] <GuShH_> that's what she said
[18:15:04] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=12811
[18:15:19] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=12691 <- it also works in the car ;-)
[18:15:30] <GuShH_> careful with the webcam, the guy from "seemecnc" may sue you for letting others see-you-cnc!
[18:16:19] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=11492 <-my "workshop
[18:16:28] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=11465
[18:16:52] <GuShH_> I thought you were going to post a picture of the other side of the bathroom
[18:16:53] <GuShH_> haha
[18:17:25] <GuShH_> are those tiny bandsaws worth having?
[18:17:32] <DaViruz> a FLOPPY DRIVE IN USE!
[18:17:40] <GuShH_> OMG
[18:17:49] <GuShH_> I actually have over 1000 floppies
[18:17:52] <Loetmichel> with a good saw band: yes
[18:17:52] <CaptHindsight> GuShH_: that is the other side of the bathroom
[18:17:54] <GuShH_> 5 1/4 one
[18:17:55] <GuShH_> ones
[18:17:59] <Loetmichel> DaViruz: so what?
[18:18:01] <GuShH_> haha
[18:18:12] <Loetmichel> even the new CNC-PC hase one
[18:18:20] <Loetmichel> ... connected on usb, though
[18:18:22] <GuShH_> and my 286 STILL WORKS and it has a whopping 50MB of HDD space.
[18:18:30] <DaViruz> yeah i have a usb floppy drive for emergencies
[18:18:34] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=12265
[18:18:40] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=12250
[18:18:40] <DaViruz> but it's been a veery long time since i used a floppy
[18:18:46] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=12247
[18:18:50] <DaViruz> in fact pretty much every floppy i ever owned has stopped working
[18:19:07] <GuShH_> oh the small 3 1/2 ones sure.
[18:19:17] <GuShH_> but the 5 1/4 still work, at least 90% of them do
[18:19:40] <DaViruz> the last time i used one it was a 5.25" that came with my VMC
[18:19:43] <GuShH_> mind you, they were quality made by comparison
[18:19:45] <Loetmichel> GuShH_: that case actually WAS a 286 pizzabox
[18:19:51] <Loetmichel> ... undtil i gutted it
[18:19:53] <Loetmichel> ;-)
[18:19:56] <GuShH_> Loetmichel: hey I won't throw away my 286
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[18:20:04] <GuShH_> it still works. needs a sound card and extra ram though
[18:20:16] <GuShH_> but it won't run DOOM sadly, you need a 386 at least
[18:21:47] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=14040 <- thats what the machine looks like at the moment
[18:22:03] <GuShH_> haha http://mla-s1-p.mlstatic.com/bujias-antiguas-12251-MLA20057047245_032014-F.jpg
[18:22:07] <Loetmichel> GuShH_: i have several 286, 386 and 486 boards
[18:22:13] <GuShH_> those are ancient spark plugs... but they were "triple spark" !!
[18:22:14] <Loetmichel> i just needed thecase
[18:22:19] <GuShH_> how awesome
[18:22:38] <XXCoder1> ran doom on 386 sx 33 mhz
[18:22:44] <XXCoder1> was lot of "fun"
[18:22:46] <GuShH_> wilbur
[18:23:03] <Loetmichel> becauee the new spindle was a bit higher so i had to make a bit of "room" above the mill
[18:23:19] <GuShH_> seems oversized :p
[18:23:35] <GuShH_> did you machine everything from scratch?
[18:23:47] <XXCoder1> expecially I had crappy video card. lol. sx also means no math coprocessor. slow!
[18:23:58] <Loetmichel> i did
[18:24:07] <GuShH_> but you had access to tools from work didn't you
[18:24:14] <Loetmichel> no
[18:24:21] <GuShH_> then?
[18:24:40] <Loetmichel> made the machine on this: http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=3077
[18:24:41] <XXCoder1> heh from what I see, its bit hard to start on cnc when dont have much money. how did you start loet
[18:24:41] <Loetmichel> :-)
[18:24:48] <GuShH_> you kinda need a mill to make a mill.
[18:25:29] <GuShH_> the cost for a small cnc here just in steppers, drivers and couplings all 3Nm is about the cost of a new street motorcycle... say a cheapie suzuki ax100
[18:25:43] <GuShH_> (to put it in perspective)
[18:25:50] <Loetmichel> that was my first one, back in 98 or so: http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=2859
[18:25:54] <XXCoder1> homebrew cnc nice
[18:25:57] <GuShH_> not counting bearings, ballscrews or even a power supply! let alone a spindle
[18:26:38] <Loetmichel> ballscrews?
[18:26:39] <GuShH_> Loetmichel: what was used to cut the wood then?
[18:26:42] <GuShH_> chicken and egg problem.
[18:26:48] <XXCoder1> wnder if theres plans online on how to make small cnc cheap. large enough to makje larger cnc though
[18:26:52] <GuShH_> Loetmichel: assuming we wanted a certain level of precision and reliability
[18:27:00] <Loetmichel> GuShH_: the wood: a circular saw and a battery drill
[18:27:09] <Loetmichel> that was all the tools i needed
[18:27:12] <GuShH_> a skill saw?
[18:27:26] <GuShH_> I'm asking for XXCoder1 :P
[18:27:44] <XXCoder1> gush you could upgrade it by levels from what I see, you could start with junkyard cnc using printer motors and such then make better one with that cnc
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[18:28:05] <Loetmichel> http://www.megawerkstatt.de/photo/product/f980x600/handkreissaege-gks-190-7972.jpg <- something like this
[18:28:06] <XXCoder1> heard printers make for excellent source of steppers
[18:28:12] <GuShH_> I saved up but I'm still missing a power supply
[18:28:39] <XXCoder1> heh so far my cnc fund is $100. so youre much futher than me now lol
[18:28:42] <GuShH_> the drives and steppers I got in mind are happiest using at least 40v
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[18:29:01] <GuShH_> oh I haven't bought a thing yet. just saying.
[18:29:12] <GuShH_> I better hurry up though prices are going up every day where I live.
[18:29:23] <XXCoder1> inflation?
[18:29:36] <Loetmichel> XXCoder1: i am planning on making a series of small gantry machines for less than 1000 eur plug and play ready for a linuxCNC-pc
[18:29:51] <XXCoder1> cool
[18:30:11] <Loetmichel> that is the base i have desinged: http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=8884
[18:30:19] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=8872
[18:30:43] <Loetmichel> will look like this only smaller when done: http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=11205
[18:30:52] -!- KimK_w [KimK_w!~KimK@wsip-184-177-84-84.ks.ks.cox.net] has joined #linuxcnc
[18:31:19] <Loetmichel> i am aiming for 6040 size
[18:31:20] <GuShH_> XXCoder1: yeah, bad
[18:32:01] <XXCoder1> my end stage is largish 2'x4' cnc using 8020
[18:32:04] <GuShH_> my ultimate goal is for a metal milling cnc about that size.
[18:32:08] <XXCoder1> or maybe even larger lol
[18:32:22] <GuShH_> I can fabricate it in steel, but the steppers and drivers are the most expensive portion, aside from the spindle
[18:32:33] <GuShH_> no, I can only house about that big.
[18:33:07] <Loetmichel> GuShH_: oh, the big one on the lat pic CAN mill aluminium
[18:33:16] <XXCoder1> 4'x8' work area would be awesome, instantly fits one standard sheets.
[18:33:17] <Loetmichel> steel would take forever, though
[18:33:28] <GuShH_> well, with light enough passes you could mill almost anything
[18:33:29] <Loetmichel> XXCoder1: thats feet?
[18:33:47] <XXCoder1> yeah sorry, I live at imperial system country, usa
[18:33:53] <GuShH_> But I would need to figure out projects that could be sold to pay for the machine or at least the running costs
[18:34:16] <Loetmichel> the gantry in the last pic can move about 2400mm by 1400mm by 300mm
[18:34:19] <GuShH_> otherwise I'm going to end up heavily in debt heh
[18:34:32] <Loetmichel> i am to lazy now to convert that in feet ;-)
[18:34:36] <GuShH_> that means custom / ordered leadscrews?
[18:34:56] <GuShH_> 4 feet is like 1.3 meters or so
[18:35:05] <GuShH_> 1.2192 says the calculator
[18:35:07] <XXCoder1> I'm going for no debt way. it means saving up for over a year though lol since I am also saving up for car at same time since my current has serious issue
[18:35:22] <GuShH_> so 2.4 meters is almost 8 feet
[18:35:27] <Loetmichel> XXCoder1: it helps to work with computers
[18:35:37] <Loetmichel> occasionally something gets thrown out
[18:35:47] <GuShH_> oh that's no problem
[18:35:49] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=13248
[18:35:52] <GuShH_> I got several machines doing nothing
[18:36:04] <XXCoder1> I bet. I get free chips all time from work, but unfortunately useless for cnc lol
[18:36:10] <GuShH_> I do have odd steppers in a box
[18:36:13] <Loetmichel> the last time i had to scrap 18 laser printers i got 2*18 steppers, 18 dc servos and some fans from it ;-)
[18:36:16] <XXCoder1> I currently work at vend company
[18:36:16] <GuShH_> but I refuse to use different steppers
[18:36:52] <GuShH_> XXCoder1: no car makes it a lot harder too
[18:36:59] <XXCoder1> I has a car
[18:37:01] <GuShH_> means having to pay crazy shipping fees
[18:37:10] <GuShH_> is it that bad that you want another one? heh
[18:37:14] <XXCoder1> it has bad design flaw that evenually will destroy tranny
[18:37:25] <GuShH_> the driver?
[18:37:26] <GuShH_> :p
[18:37:38] <XXCoder1> contours tend to overheat toque transformers
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[18:37:49] <GuShH_> converter!
[18:37:54] <GuShH_> hrmm who drives automatic?
[18:37:55] <GuShH_> oh yeah americans
[18:37:59] * GuShH_ hifives Loetmichel
[18:37:59] <XXCoder1> thats why 1998 and older contours is pretty hard to find
[18:38:07] <Loetmichel> GuShH_: me too...
[18:38:11] <Loetmichel> automatic
[18:38:11] <GuShH_> DAMN YOU
[18:38:15] <GuShH_> you are not an old lady
[18:38:16] <XXCoder1> mine is 1998 - last year lol
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[18:38:33] <Loetmichel> but unlike americans i CAN drive stick shift ;-)
[18:38:46] <GuShH_> americans can but they don't care, or are too lazy.
[18:38:47] <XXCoder1> lol, autos is VERY common., I'd have to pay 1k $ or more for drive stick
[18:38:49] <Loetmichel> no, i am not, but my wife has a bad hip
[18:38:55] <GuShH_> here autos cost more.
[18:39:01] <GuShH_> plus they are heavier, slower...
[18:39:04] <Loetmichel> and she is occasionaly driving my car
[18:39:07] <XXCoder1> my bro love stick but has wife too
[18:39:08] <GuShH_> cost more to repair the transmission
[18:39:13] <Loetmichel> which hurts if she has to clutch
[18:39:26] <GuShH_> Loetmichel: I was joking, you can drive whatever you want...
[18:39:27] <XXCoder1> me well I never was very good on focusing, driving takes enough focus without having to deal with stick too
[18:39:31] <GuShH_> including a sausage van
[18:39:43] <GuShH_> or rather, specially a sausage / hotdog van.
[18:39:48] <Loetmichel> XXCoder1: no need to focus
[18:39:57] <Loetmichel> that works automatically after a few days
[18:39:58] <GuShH_> it becomes second nature
[18:40:01] <GuShH_> like on a motorcycle
[18:40:07] <Loetmichel> without brain interaction
[18:40:19] <GuShH_> "you become part of ze machineeee"
[18:40:20] <XXCoder1> it dont work for me. not for 10 years
[18:40:23] <Loetmichel> ear hears to much refs and hand shifts by itseld
[18:40:28] <XXCoder1> well 11 I guess
[18:40:34] <XXCoder1> and uh I'm deaf :P
[18:40:39] <GuShH_> I really want to go back to 2 wheels....
[18:40:43] <GuShH_> but you can't carry crap on 2 wheels.
[18:40:59] <Loetmichel> GuShH_: no trailer for your motorcycle?
[18:41:00] <GuShH_> XXCoder1: oh well that's a problem with stick
[18:41:01] <Loetmichel> :-)
[18:41:04] <XXCoder1> GuShH_: sure you can. in least till you go to restroom. ;)
[18:41:05] <GuShH_> Loetmichel: that's too hippie for me
[18:41:11] <XXCoder1> gush my bro drives it just fine
[18:41:15] <GuShH_> haha
[18:41:15] <XXCoder1> hes deaf too
[18:41:25] <GuShH_> sure you can watch at the rev counter
[18:41:33] <GuShH_> but that adds to the focus / stress
[18:41:38] <XXCoder1> can easily feel the revs
[18:41:42] <Loetmichel> if you are deaf you have to feel the revs on the steering wheel vibrations ;-)
[18:42:02] <CaptHindsight> JFC why does keiling have different max supply voltages for every stepper drive?
[18:42:10] <XXCoder1> yeah issue never was hearing revs, I just suck on driving
[18:42:20] <GuShH_> you SUCK
[18:42:34] <GuShH_> at least you don't BLOW.
[18:42:40] * GuShH_ grins
[18:42:43] <XXCoder1> yet I have to drive large van everyday lol. in least around parking lot, glad I dont have to actually drive out into roads lol
[18:42:53] <Loetmichel> a friend of mine used to drive THIS as his every day car... not sync rings in that gearbox...-> http://landscaper.de/db_03210.jpg
[18:43:05] <GuShH_> ugh
[18:43:08] <GuShH_> I couldn't drive non sync
[18:43:16] <GuShH_> I would grind the gears down after an hour.
[18:43:30] <Loetmichel> he ended up to use the clutch only for accelerating from standstill
[18:43:44] <GuShH_> that thing is too wasteful in fuel (diesel I presume)
[18:43:53] <IchGuckLive> SOMEONE can check if AUDIO and YID quality is ol for Fixing the G81 Issue on heekscad Please http://youtu.be/XBeddBiUIvI
[18:43:55] <Loetmichel> the rest was just "pull the gear out, rev matchicg, press the gear in"
[18:44:02] <IchGuckLive> i just uploaded the tut
[18:44:02] <CaptHindsight> oh it's just bad info on the website, the website says 36V and the silk screen on the drive says 48V
[18:44:07] <Loetmichel> ... and i never heard the gears grind ;-)
[18:44:18] <CaptHindsight> err 40V
[18:44:27] <CaptHindsight> http://www.automationtechnologiesinc.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/KL-4042D-1024x1024.jpg
[18:44:34] <Loetmichel> GuShH_: define wateful
[18:44:45] <GuShH_> not many miles per gallon
[18:44:51] <Loetmichel> it gets away whti less than 30 liters diesel on 100km
[18:44:56] <GuShH_> CaptHindsight: yeah those are the ones I can buy here, but they have another name..
[18:45:09] <GuShH_> Loetmichel: waste.
[18:45:09] <Connor> CaptHindsight: That one probably best with 36v PSU
[18:45:13] <Loetmichel> = ~8mpg
[18:45:16] <IchGuckLive> Gear grinder is a money grapper
[18:45:18] <CaptHindsight> probably Leadshine
[18:45:23] <GuShH_> it is.
[18:45:34] <GuShH_> and they claim "real leadshine, not a copy" (??)
[18:45:36] <IchGuckLive> leadshine ;-) O.o
[18:45:42] <GuShH_> but it's based on the same ICs
[18:45:47] <CaptHindsight> Connor: but the other Leadshine are 60+ VDC in
[18:45:57] <GuShH_> one sec
[18:45:59] <Loetmichel> GuShH_: but being ex german military it drove moste of the time with waste oil
[18:46:00] <IchGuckLive> copy leadshine is crap it does not meet speed
[18:46:06] <Loetmichel> or vegetable oil
[18:46:08] <GuShH_> Leadshine M542
[18:46:17] <IchGuckLive> i prefer the M880a
[18:46:31] <IchGuckLive> the hell of a drive
[18:46:38] <GuShH_> no hi res pic... http://img2.mlstatic.com/driver-paso-a-paso-leadshine-m542-original-42a-pico-bipolar_MLA-O-136829707_746.jpg
[18:46:45] <Connor> http://www.automationtechnologiesinc.com/products-page/kl-stepper-drivers/microstepping-driver-kl5056
[18:46:49] <CaptHindsight> I'm try to compare 4 different drives
[18:46:50] <Connor> I think that's the one I use
[18:46:57] <GuShH_> nobody sells the M880a here
[18:46:59] <CaptHindsight> try/trying
[18:47:01] <Loetmichel> the friend got stopped by the german tax police once.. "would you mind if we check the contents of your tank for heating oil?"
[18:47:02] <IchGuckLive> GuShH_: http://foengarage.de/mesa_elek.jpg
[18:47:13] <GuShH_> Loetmichel: lol
[18:47:14] <CaptHindsight> with same motor and power supplies
[18:47:36] <Loetmichel> ... they put the testerin the tank, pulled it out... dripping a black, lumpy ooze from it...
[18:47:37] <GuShH_> IchGuckLive: nice
[18:47:41] <Loetmichel> "whats THAT?"
[18:48:00] <Connor> I should have went with http://www.automationtechnologiesinc.com/products-page/digital-stepper-motor-driver/digital-stepper-driver-kl-5056d-heat-sink-is-included
[18:48:08] <GuShH_> shoulda coulda woulda
[18:48:11] <GuShH_> your best friends
[18:48:29] <GuShH_> here they cost 3-4 times as much :(
[18:48:47] <Loetmichel> friend: "oh, about 80 liters used hydraulics oil, 120 liters used motor oil, 60 liters vegetable oil and about 40 liters gasoline to get it thin enough for the injection pump"
[18:48:48] <Loetmichel> ;-)
[18:49:00] <CaptHindsight> KL-6050 only does 1/2 and 1/8 step no full step
[18:49:29] <Loetmichel> police: "are you out of your mind?!?"
[18:49:42] <CaptHindsight> it's like they just throw specs up in the air
[18:49:54] <Loetmichel> friend: "no, look at the papers. it doesent say "diesel", it says" multi fule engine"
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[18:50:03] <Connor> yea. the 5056 does more
[18:50:12] <Loetmichel> "... and there is no (tax reduced) hjeating oil in it ;-)"
[18:50:52] <IchGuckLive> GuShH_: your M542 on 5 Axis http://foengarage.de/5achs.jpg
[18:51:26] <GuShH_> quit showing off :p
[18:51:33] <GuShH_> very nicely wired
[18:51:51] <GuShH_> that's the right way to do it
[18:52:37] <CaptHindsight> M542 is Leadshine?
[18:52:38] <IchGuckLive> Thanks
[18:53:01] <XXCoder1> nice!
[18:53:15] <XXCoder1> I was wondering how to build electric system neat
[18:53:26] <XXCoder1> so those drivers require fan to keep cool
[18:53:26] <_methods> man as soon as i wire something like that up something blows up and i have to take itall apart
[18:53:44] <_methods> clipping zip ties all day lol
[18:53:53] <Loetmichel> hrhr
[18:53:58] <IchGuckLive> GuShH_: this is the part that this electronic produces day in day out http://foengarage.de/saule.jpg
[18:54:05] <_methods> if i leave it all a mess everything works perfect
[18:54:06] <Loetmichel> mybe dont use cheap tb6560 drivers then?
[18:54:28] <XXCoder1> whats those columns used for
[18:54:41] <GuShH_> to hide your bottle of booze
[18:54:49] <IchGuckLive> XXCoder1: no but on 8hr shift you might do so
[18:54:56] <Loetmichel> _methods: the back of my machine doesent look any better http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=12808
[18:54:59] <GuShH_> why machine copies when you could cast them?
[18:55:04] <_methods> hehe
[18:56:15] <IchGuckLive> Loetmichel: coudt you translate ehat GuShH_ means with this
[18:56:20] <GuShH_> casting is faster and cheaper, any particular reason why you avoid it?
[18:56:41] <Loetmichel> IchGuckLive: "warum kopien fräsen wenn du sie giessen kannst?"
[18:56:43] <GuShH_> using plaster...
[18:56:51] <GuShH_> or even concrete, depending on the application
[18:57:10] <IchGuckLive> ;-)
[18:57:15] <GuShH_> holy shit I can read German
[18:57:24] <IchGuckLive> GuShH_: every part series is different
[18:57:30] <GuShH_> aha
[18:57:42] <XXCoder1> still wonder what its used for lol
[18:57:46] <GuShH_> since you said "day in and day out"
[18:58:12] <IchGuckLive> agree on that
[18:58:19] <GuShH_> so they're different just on small variations?
[18:58:38] <GuShH_> XXCoder1 is dying to know what they're for
[18:58:47] <IchGuckLive> oh now up to 15m in size
[18:58:55] <GuShH_> wot
[18:58:58] <IchGuckLive> max part is 4x4x20m
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[18:59:06] <XXCoder1> 20m??
[18:59:06] * GuShH_ blinks
[18:59:12] <GuShH_> 20 meters!
[18:59:21] <GuShH_> that's 65 feet
[18:59:22] <IchGuckLive> yes this is the max X size
[18:59:40] <GuShH_> and the material is ?
[18:59:40] <Loetmichel> show the machine please
[18:59:42] <XXCoder1> thats one freaky large u=hmm lathe cnc?
[18:59:50] <IchGuckLive> GuShH_: foam
[18:59:53] <GuShH_> yeah I guess it's a lathe cnc
[19:00:07] <IchGuckLive> XY UV B
[19:00:07] <GuShH_> you should make finials for furniture too
[19:00:38] <Loetmichel> i would guess that are molds for lost foam castings?
[19:01:05] <IchGuckLive> the inlays for the mold
[19:01:13] <GuShH_> mystery columns
[19:01:38] <XXCoder1> :P
[19:01:58] <IchGuckLive> GuShH_: http://foengarage.de/traf.jpg
[19:03:15] -!- kb8wmc [kb8wmc!~chatzilla@] has joined #linuxcnc
[19:04:09] <XXCoder1> interesting object. trophy?
[19:05:05] -!- bill2or3 [bill2or3!bill@cloudburst.xmission.com] has joined #linuxcnc
[19:05:23] <IchGuckLive> this is the inlay it goes to a sand grave and will be burned out and filled with brass
[19:06:27] <IchGuckLive> iron or what ever the artist coustomer wants
[19:07:32] <kb8wmc> good day
[19:07:38] <IchGuckLive> pk im off BYE
[19:07:46] <kb8wmc> bye
[19:07:47] <IchGuckLive> hi kb8wmc
[19:08:12] <kb8wmc> my heeks G82 works good
[19:08:35] <IchGuckLive> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XBeddBiUIvI here is your vid on request
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[19:08:46] <kb8wmc> thank you very much
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[19:10:42] <kb8wmc> IchGuckLive: that will help any others that have the same situation
[19:11:38] <IchGuckLive> kb8wmc: pleas see the vid if the quality is ok to see all the lines and self.fmt changes
[19:12:09] <kb8wmc> I am looking at it now
[19:12:33] <kb8wmc> it has not started yet though
[19:13:13] <IchGuckLive> kb8wmc: in the outback here i got a better inet connect thne you in the great usa city
[19:13:15] <kb8wmc> my connection is slow
[19:13:28] <kb8wmc> it is starting now
[19:13:34] <kb8wmc> intermittently
[19:13:50] <XXCoder1> usa suck on internet
[19:14:03] <XXCoder1> you has ONE choice of high bandwidth internet per area
[19:14:19] <IchGuckLive> from here on my window i can see the european fibre backboan line runing all the USA spie lines
[19:14:31] <GuShH_> IchGuckLive: that last one was 1 piece or multiple glued?
[19:14:33] <XXCoder1> and we have LOT dark fiber around here, paid by taxpayers but they refuse to use it
[19:14:51] <IchGuckLive> GuShH_: multiple
[19:15:00] <GuShH_> makes sense
[19:15:05] <GuShH_> very nice
[19:15:56] <GuShH_> IchGuckLive: we want to see the machine though
[19:16:01] * GuShH_ grins
[19:16:46] <IchGuckLive> there are only cables runnig no mashine
[19:17:00] <GuShH_> the machine that made those foam parts
[19:17:10] <XXCoder1> yes please
[19:17:49] <IchGuckLive> i need toleve maybe tomorrow i can show a mashine that is near that
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[19:18:27] <GuShH_> aww
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[19:41:47] <GuShH_> do not use that silly coolant recipe with the water and the soap unless you want your machine to turn red in 30 minutes.
[19:41:59] <GuShH_> I sprayed a bit on the drill press table, it already rusted.
[19:42:20] <GuShH_> either it needs a LOT more oil, or it's bs.
[19:42:52] <Tom_itx> i vote bs
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[19:44:29] <GuShH_> thoughts on MA860H?
[19:44:50] <GuShH_> Tom_itx: it's amazing how fast it rusted, 30 minutes for the water to evaporate and the rust to appear.
[19:45:19] <GuShH_> it cuts beautifully, but it would wreck everything with rust.
[19:45:45] <GuShH_> which is why I wondered in the first place, why not use diluted car coolant instead of the water
[19:46:01] <GuShH_> (since it should have additives to prevent rusting?)
[19:49:03] <_methods> http://www.blaser.com/
[19:50:12] <GuShH_> I live in Argentina
[19:50:16] <GuShH_> that simply doesn't exist here.
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[19:50:48] <_methods> don't cry to me argentina
[19:51:05] * GuShH_ gives _methods the finger
[19:51:10] <_methods> hahahah
[19:51:15] <GuShH_> The only major company making cutting fluids and coolant charges 50-60 usd for a liter.
[19:51:22] <_methods> ouch
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[19:51:33] <GuShH_> why else would I be trying to make a batch of my own?
[19:51:52] <GuShH_> I've been using thinned down mineral oils and motor oils, it's nasty stuff and not very good for cutting.
[19:52:22] <jdh> kerosene?
[19:52:28] <_methods> lard
[19:52:35] <jdh> chicken fat
[19:52:40] <_methods> yeah old school
[19:52:59] <jdh> find a liposuction clinic, rob their trash piles
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[19:53:04] <_methods> hehe
[19:53:32] <_methods> just get a mister and use wd-40
[19:53:59] <_methods> you need flood coolant?
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[19:59:08] <GuShH_> yeah
[19:59:13] <_methods> bummer
[19:59:15] <GuShH_> nah wd40 is just kerosene mostly
[19:59:19] <_methods> guess that rule sout mister
[19:59:28] <GuShH_> mineral oil and kerosene would work, but it smells horrible
[20:00:05] <GuShH_> jdh: I've heard about people using pork fat... lard... I'm not that desperate.
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[20:03:27] <bill2or3> I thought wd40 was linseed oil, no?
[20:03:57] <jdh> they say it is has no kerosene
[20:04:05] <humble_sea_bass> no
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[20:07:09] <bill2or3> wikipedia says %50 "Stoddard solvent", aka: mineral spirits.
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[20:13:45] <bill2or3> Is anyone running the beaglebone port?
[20:13:49] <GuShH_> bill2or3: they changed it around a few times, it used to have propane for the propellant and they changed it to a non flammable... the formula was based on spirits similar if not the same as kerosene, they are just slightly more refined and what you smell is a fragance they add...
[20:14:06] <GuShH_> anyway useless for flood coolant.
[20:16:52] <GuShH_> seems the ph and other factors of the water are important
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[20:22:15] <tjb1> p0st4L:
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[21:07:34] <XXCoder1> baby oil? ;p;
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[21:15:40] <XXCoder1> would baby oil work? lol GuShH_
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[21:55:17] <XXCoder1> I guess not lol
[21:59:36] <MattyMatt> flood coolant is mostly water isn't it? with oil dissolved/in suspension with detergent
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[22:00:49] <XXCoder1> oh hey matt, saw your link abour $3,500 5 axis thing
[22:00:50] <XXCoder1> funny
[22:01:20] <MattyMatt> yeah it's cute, but nowhere near $3.5k worth IMO
[22:01:35] <XXCoder1> wonder if its buildable if has cnc
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[22:02:13] <MattyMatt> you can get belt drive 4th & 5th unit from china for $500
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[22:02:59] <MattyMatt> add a $1000 3 axis machine, and you've got the equivalent, not much bigger
[22:04:24] <XXCoder1> for each thing theres usually someone making riciously tiny version
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[22:04:38] <XXCoder1> theres v8 motor thats smaller than hand for example
[22:04:45] <XXCoder1> I wonder if anyone ever did 5 axis
[22:04:47] <XXCoder1> cnc
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[22:06:53] <MattyMatt> there's someone on YT making 1/4 scale models of all the popular benchtop mills. non functional tho, just for comparison
[22:07:27] <XXCoder1> bah if not fully functional pointless ;)
[22:07:42] <XXCoder1> electric system would have to be full size though
[22:08:15] <MattyMatt> not really, you don't need much of a driver for a nema8
[22:09:10] <XXCoder1> .8 inch motors
[22:09:16] <XXCoder1> pretty small allright
[22:10:10] <MattyMatt> if they scaled the gcode, you could use them to rehearse ops on your full size one
[22:10:51] <XXCoder1> it would be interesting if fully functional
[22:11:08] <XXCoder1> uses hmm well maybe engraved business cards lol
[22:11:32] <MattyMatt> training is what I was thinking
[22:11:48] <MattyMatt> get a kid cncing foam, and he can trasfer those skills
[22:11:56] <XXCoder1> thats a great idea
[22:12:06] <XXCoder1> it has to be inexpensive AND easy to fix
[22:12:13] <XXCoder1> screw ups do and WILL happen
[22:12:22] <Jymmm> Pretty cool... https://www.usps.com/
[22:13:26] <MattyMatt> spiderman is a postman?
[22:13:46] <XXCoder1> well he goes all over, it makes sense ;)
[22:15:03] <Deejay> gn8
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[22:16:21] <XXCoder1> matty maybe we should do kickstarter on that lol
[22:16:40] <XXCoder1> if it hits off all I want is around $2500 for cnc
[22:16:46] <XXCoder1> you can keep rest
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[22:17:23] <andypugh> Alibre seems to have moved on since I last looked at it, and since the name change: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cXdS2L8ise4&list=PLvpFHPSB33EelxE366mNHxjeVW0mg5C9m
[22:17:30] <MattyMatt> what make 20 iterations of mini ones, and when it's sweet, build one each full size? :)
[22:18:58] <XXCoder1> no, fully functional mini kit for kids
[22:19:04] <XXCoder1> foam cutter, and light wood
[22:19:18] <XXCoder1> uses nema 8
[22:20:06] <MattyMatt> like a CNC unimat 1?
[22:20:09] <CaptHindsight> andypugh: maybe since 3D Systems acquired them
[22:21:59] <CaptHindsight> 3D Systems seems to think that they can corner and control the additive manufacturing world by gobbling up companies that provide everything from concept to printing
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[22:22:08] <XXCoder1> reading about it
[22:22:21] <MattyMatt> vertical integration, nothing wrong with that
[22:22:48] <andypugh> Well, no more than there is anything wrong with the phrase "vertical integration"
[22:22:58] <CaptHindsight> what they don't understand is that their simple printers and costly materials won't change much of anything
[22:23:00] <MattyMatt> especially with reprap pirahnas eating their main food
[22:23:26] <MattyMatt> open source scanners are getting better too tho
[22:23:34] <andypugh> Cheap printers anc costly consumables seems to have worked OK for the inkjet printer folks.
[22:23:36] <XXCoder1> $3000 with basic model with cnc addon
[22:23:38] <CaptHindsight> similar to the delusions that reprap users seem to have
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[22:24:13] <MattyMatt> oh materials are getting cheaper
[22:24:48] <MattyMatt> you can build a machine for $500 that makes usable filament out of pellet or shredded scrap
[22:24:52] <CaptHindsight> the difference between inkjet and 3D printing is that inkjet kept a tight grip on the sale and price of the printheads
[22:25:18] <andypugh> http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/science-technology/3d-printers-a-total-pile-of-shit-2012112250095
[22:26:21] <CaptHindsight> FDM is only a very small part of 3D printing, just don't try and have that conversation with any of the reprap fans
[22:26:41] <CaptHindsight> FDM can't even compete with injection molding
[22:26:44] <XXCoder1> Matt theres even cheaper methods
[22:27:46] <andypugh> If I ever make a 3D printer, it will be for printing sand moulds for patternless casting. That interests me a lot more than plastic Yodas.
[22:27:50] <MattyMatt> you can put an extruder that uses pellets directly on a giant printer, but then what you've got is effectively an IM machine
[22:28:27] <MattyMatt> andypugh, would you consider lost PLA instead?
[22:28:41] <MattyMatt> PLA burns out at least as cleanly as wax
[22:28:58] <XXCoder1> matt http://www.filastruder.com/products/filastruder-kit
[22:28:59] <andypugh> Not for the size of thing I want to cast. There's this 9 litre, 4 cylinder engine...
[22:28:59] <CaptHindsight> FDM is really slow and low res, low volume plastic toys are about its best fit
[22:29:53] <CaptHindsight> sand casting using inkjet binder is pretty fast, CAD in the a.m., cast parts by the afternoon
[22:30:00] <andypugh> CaptHindsight: Have you read "Rule 34" by Charlie Stross?
[22:31:11] <CaptHindsight> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rule_34_%28novel%29 nope
[22:32:05] <andypugh> Stross tends to throw away ideas in side plots that others would make a trilogy of. Part of that book is exploring how a world of 3D printers meshes with copyright etc. And there is a funny moment when an illicit backyard 3D printer gets a virus and stars printing small penises.
[22:32:15] <MattyMatt> XXCoder1, yeah filastruder is the best you can buy a kit for atm, but it's worth scaling it up a bit IMO, closer to a screw driven IM machine
[22:32:22] <XXCoder1> maybe http://deltaprinter.co.za/filamentextruder/index.html
[22:33:19] <andypugh> Worth making properly too, like with a lathe and milling machine. Just a thought, like.
[22:33:38] <tjb1> p0st4L: wake up
[22:33:45] <andypugh> Using a drill bit as the auger is pretty inspired though.
[22:34:25] <MattyMatt> that's the biggest weakness IMO, you need the taper to get enough pressure
[22:34:39] <andypugh> Ah, yes, I can see that.
[22:35:07] <XXCoder1> last link combined with http://www.filastruder.com/collections/spare-parts/products/filawinder lol
[22:35:19] <XXCoder1> you now has handy pair to make whatever
[22:35:20] <tjb1> anyone here have a Fluke VT02?
[22:35:34] <MattyMatt> I read that's what does most of the melting on an IM machine, the heater band is just to keep the nozzle flowing
[22:35:41] <andypugh> PID control of temperature and linking extrusion rate to an optical diameter measurement would also help. I don't think it need to be a laser or anything clever, just an LED/sensor pair working in the analogue region.
[22:37:01] <CaptHindsight> you can go from CAD in the morning to a cast mold for injection molding in one day, and then pump out plastic toys every few seconds
[22:37:12] <andypugh> Ah, the only other thing that people make, other than Yoda, the sexy girl. I wonder who she is?
[22:37:46] <CaptHindsight> you can print a new mold every day that good for thousands of shots
[22:38:16] <CaptHindsight> FDM was a neat proto tech from the 80's
[22:38:18] <MattyMatt> she's called the pink panther lady, fo some reason. I dunno if it's authentic copy of a scene from the film
[22:38:48] <XXCoder1> http://makezine.com/projects/guide-to-3d-printing-2014/glow-plug-3d-printer-extruder/ probably something I could make if ever has cnc lol
[22:39:33] <andypugh> If you had CNC, why wouldn't you make something more elegant?
[22:39:48] <MattyMatt> little cartridges like mini soldering iron innards, are the current rage
[22:39:54] <andypugh> You don't need CNC for that. You need a power drill and a file.
[22:40:08] <MattyMatt> we've mostly stopped embedding wire wound resistors in fire cement
[22:40:11] <XXCoder1> guess so
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[22:40:57] <andypugh> If I was making an extruder I think I would probably be wrapping nichrome wire round refractory former.
[22:41:10] <CaptHindsight> I can SLA/DLP print a mold in a minute to make a few hundred molds for injection molding or print wax burnouts for metal in a few minutes
[22:41:24] <MattyMatt> yeah that was the way before wire-wound resistors
[22:41:28] <andypugh> But then, I do have quite a lot of nichrome wire.
[22:42:11] <andypugh> (and I used to work in a metallurgy lab, where we rewound furnaces pretty regularly)
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[22:42:32] <CaptHindsight> FDM is only for slow low res extruding of thermoplastics, the good thing about thermoplastics is that they are easily recycled
[22:42:50] <andypugh> Has anyone tried a direct resistance heated extruder? Just moderately thin-walled stainless steel and a few thousand amps at 0.1V?
[22:43:11] <MattyMatt> nobody that I know :)
[22:43:11] <andypugh> If you want a few thousand amps, well....
[22:43:23] <XXCoder1> andypugh: project I linked used diesel glowplug
[22:43:24] <Loetmichel> at a few thousand amps it will be a moderately THICK stanless
[22:43:27] <CaptHindsight> they aren't even working on miniature gear pumps
[22:43:29] <MattyMatt> that's quite a large ATX supply
[22:43:41] <PCW> Wow Baytrail MB is really nice!
[22:44:06] <andypugh> You know that you should never bolt a toroidal transformer into an accidental short-circuited turn? Well, if you _deliberately_ do that then you can make quite a big stainless steel tube into a furnace.
[22:44:25] <Loetmichel> andypugh: been there
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[22:44:37] <andypugh> Accidentally or deliberately?
[22:44:47] <Loetmichel> amazing how fast a steel enclosure can start to glow ;-)
[22:44:52] <Loetmichel> accidentally ;-)
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[22:45:06] <andypugh> We did it deliberately in the metallurgy lab.
[22:45:25] <andypugh> Big copper cables to a thin-walled stainless tube. Worked nicely.
[22:45:29] <PCW> ~8 usec latency running firefox/flash 1080P without any tweaking
[22:45:30] <PCW> 4 KHz servo thread runs fine and quite snappy video/overall performance
[22:46:02] <PCW> passive heatsink just warm to the touch
[22:46:10] <CaptHindsight> I don't know why a few thermoplastics are supposed to change the world of manufacturing
[22:46:18] <andypugh> The drawback for a 3D printer would be the weight of the cables, I guess.
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[22:46:42] <andypugh> Can you 3D print in Polyimide?
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[22:46:56] <MattyMatt> hmm now I'm wondering if a VFD would make a useful induction furnace
[22:46:56] <XXCoder1> capt if I ever want to try, I would make 3d printer that uses same plastic as those milk jugs
[22:47:01] <PCW> little HF ferrite transformer at heater
[22:47:05] <XXCoder1> we throw LOT of those away
[22:47:32] <andypugh> I looked at injection-moulding 20 polyimide parts a year. Compared to the price of machining the glass-ceramic alternative, it looked like a winner.
[22:47:36] <CaptHindsight> andypugh: these http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polyimide ?
[22:47:44] <MattyMatt> andypugh is that nylon? or is that ..amide?
[22:47:53] <MattyMatt> imide = kapton?
[22:47:54] <XXCoder1> milk jugs to filment http://www.3ders.org/articles/20130302-recyclebot-turning-old-milk-jugs-into-3d-printer-feedstock.html
[22:47:56] <CaptHindsight> ^^ those are thermosets
[22:48:01] <andypugh> Yes, bulk kapton
[22:49:06] <MattyMatt> latest hot ends are good to 500 or 600C, so you could print peek, and other high temp thermoplastics
[22:49:08] <CaptHindsight> andypugh: yes but not by FDM
[22:50:06] <andypugh> Looking at it, I see the problem. You can injection-mould it (the company I talked to were happy to quote) but it doesn't suit FDM
[22:50:25] <MattyMatt> a cnc mig welder is technically FDM
[22:50:58] <andypugh> Did you see that laser-deposition multi-axis milling machine?
[22:51:07] <MattyMatt> arr
[22:51:20] <MattyMatt> the one that sprays metal powder into the focus?
[22:51:26] <andypugh> Aye
[22:51:46] <MattyMatt> that's posh, but wire and an arc works "OK"
[22:52:04] <MattyMatt> you end up with parts that look like a giant dodgy weld
[22:52:22] <andypugh> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s9IdZ2pI5dA
[22:52:28] <andypugh> Looks better than a dodgy weld
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[22:55:16] <XXCoder1> LOL http://www.3ders.org/articles/20120715-first-full-sized-3d-printed-milk-jug-boat.html
[22:55:20] <CaptHindsight> MattyMatt: what the highest volume of printed material per hour with FDM? a few dozen mL?
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[22:57:14] <CaptHindsight> the milk jug boat was for a contest
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[22:57:35] <andypugh> Someone should claim the First Full Size 3D-Printed!! Elephant (foetus)
[22:57:35] <CaptHindsight> they changed the rules after that was printed
[22:57:46] <XXCoder1> yeah article said "unoffical 2nd"
[22:57:52] <XXCoder1> so they didnt accept or something
[22:58:21] <XXCoder1> andy I guess anyone can do that, just do it in parts lol, make it almost puzzle like so it even holds together
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[22:58:49] <MattyMatt> CaptHindsight, it's all down to nozzle size, and the size of the pump
[22:59:12] <andypugh> Err, you could do a full-size elephant foetus on a reprap.
[22:59:12] <MattyMatt> http://vimeo.com/33026239 here's a fast one
[22:59:33] <MattyMatt> endless chair, for those who've seen it and hate the tune
[22:59:42] <XXCoder1> oh here its spelled fetus lol
[22:59:49] <XXCoder1> bah I rather have adult one
[22:59:49] * MattyMatt watches occasionally just for the tune
[23:00:18] <andypugh> Yeah, that is because you don't know how words are spelt.
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[23:00:29] <XXCoder1> lol
[23:00:48] <CaptHindsight> 10mm resolution
[23:01:30] <MattyMatt> 10mm wall thickness, but you can place them much more accurately
[23:02:40] <andypugh> Talking about music, someone sent me this link earlier today: http://youtu.be/GwLeTPVuD3c (just two old blokes singing and playing guitar).
[23:02:47] <MattyMatt> with a giant printer on an arm like that, you could print a form for a concrete house, or live in a plastic house
[23:03:00] <XXCoder1> or yes, full size eleplant lol
[23:03:06] <MattyMatt> arr
[23:03:17] <CaptHindsight> full size elephant house
[23:03:25] <MattyMatt> split mould, so you can make a row of concrete elephants
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[23:04:08] <XXCoder1> would need maybe 3 parter
[23:04:55] <CaptHindsight> just extrude concrete without a mould/mold
[23:04:57] <MattyMatt> I want to do one that squirts silicone grout, so it can make flexible moulds
[23:05:21] <andypugh> I want one that squirts tantalum. Is it too much to ask?
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[23:05:34] <MattyMatt> what's your budget?
[23:05:47] <CaptHindsight> how far should it squirt?
[23:05:49] <andypugh> 54p
[23:06:07] <MattyMatt> somebody worked out you need 10^-5 Torr for EVD
[23:06:25] <MattyMatt> so if you've got a pump like that lying around, it's cheap
[23:06:52] <andypugh> 10-5 torr is easy enough. Keeping it while filling the space with molten metal, rather less so.
[23:07:17] <XXCoder1> andy what for? curious
[23:07:36] <andypugh> Just for fun, really. Tantalum is cool.
[23:07:42] <XXCoder1> lol ok
[23:08:19] <andypugh> I occasionally look at buying some osmium from eBay too.
[23:08:32] <MattyMatt> once you've got an EVD rig, you'd probably just make diamonds until money problems go away
[23:09:05] <CaptHindsight> https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/wegotplastic/hd-2-the-worlds-first-high-definition-and-heavy-du?ref=discovery this one uses cold hard aluminum, isn't that better?
[23:09:39] <MattyMatt> it's made of, cold ard alu
[23:09:51] <XXCoder1> looks like mostly 8020 with some custom corner framework stuff
[23:09:55] <andypugh> I want it to print transparent aluminum
[23:10:16] <CaptHindsight> nope, pretty sure it cold and hard aluminum :)
[23:10:42] <MattyMatt> you could do sapphire in the same machine that does diamonds, afaik
[23:10:45] <andypugh> I like the Ultimaker design.
[23:10:57] <CaptHindsight> andypugh: I did but I forgot where i put it :)
[23:11:30] <MattyMatt> alu ions in an atmosphere of O2 would probably deposit as sapphire
[23:11:50] <MattyMatt> dunno tho
[23:12:19] <XXCoder1> $1,259 (earlybird) seems awesome
[23:12:26] <XXCoder1> too bad I has $100 thats all lol
[23:12:29] <CaptHindsight> http://phys.org/news167925273.html
[23:12:48] <andypugh> This is like something from a cartoon! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bg4nPT_RrBk#t=19
[23:13:27] <MattyMatt> it's way oversize that machine, although you could repurpose it as a pcb mill/drill
[23:13:49] <XXCoder1> question - why is oerson taking video of road
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[23:14:16] <andypugh> CaptHindsight: Ah, but that's just normal, everyday transparent _aluminium_ we have had that in the UK for 5 years or so. No, it' transparent _aluminum_ that we need :-)
[23:14:20] <XXCoder1> ah videoing security screen
[23:15:07] <CaptHindsight> https://www.google.com/patents/US4720362
[23:15:36] <CaptHindsight> http://www.azom.com/article.aspx?ArticleID=8095#3
[23:15:49] <andypugh> I applied for a job at the Diamond Lightsource. I still think they made a mistake not emplying me :-(
[23:16:18] <CaptHindsight> certainly
[23:17:14] <XXCoder1> andy whats difference?
[23:18:18] <CaptHindsight> returned from Keiling earlier, lots of big routers there
[23:19:46] <andypugh> XXCoder1: We both spell alumium incorrectly.
[23:19:57] <XXCoder1> lol ok
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[23:20:43] <andypugh> There again, I am not so sure that Humphry Davy knoew how to spell his own name :-)
[23:20:44] <CaptHindsight> I wish he imported these http://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/JASH-Cast-Iron-Base-Plates_112650664/showimage.html
[23:21:26] <GuShH_> XXCoder1: baby oil? the heck
[23:21:41] <XXCoder1> minerial oil lol
[23:21:46] <GuShH_> sure
[23:21:56] <andypugh> Making oil from babies is frowned upon nowadays
[23:22:04] <GuShH_> aww
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[23:22:23] <XXCoder1> yeah, something about murder :P
[23:22:27] <MattyMatt> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/5-Axis-CNC-3040-Table-Column-Type-Engraving-Machine-High-pricision-Ball-Screw-/251354779186 this looks better value than that little green one I linked earlier
[23:22:55] <GuShH_> "engraving machine"
[23:23:02] <GuShH_> notice how cheap mills are "mill drills" same here
[23:23:05] <GuShH_> it's not a milling machine.
[23:23:15] <MattyMatt> ah light cuts :)
[23:23:20] <andypugh> That's fairly neat, but in any volume I am sure an iron casting would be cheaper.
[23:23:26] <GuShH_> waste of money get a real bridgeport for that!
[23:23:45] <MattyMatt> yeah cast iron would triple the shipping cost tho
[23:23:55] <GuShH_> you get it local
[23:24:09] <CaptHindsight> alibaba is going public in the USA
[23:24:25] <MattyMatt> they should do it hollow fibreglass which you fill with concrete :)
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[23:25:09] <XXCoder1> theres online plans to make large lathe from concerete
[23:25:20] <XXCoder1> I guess thats possible lol
[23:25:22] <GuShH_> 70KG haha toy.
[23:25:37] <CaptHindsight> epoxy concrete
[23:25:40] <MattyMatt> that's how I plan to do a reprapped mill. hollow print which you ram with cement
[23:25:46] <GuShH_> "finally a mill you can pick up"
[23:26:01] <CaptHindsight> it's portable
[23:26:09] <GuShH_> >_<
[23:26:15] <GuShH_> I like the tupperware
[23:26:19] <GuShH_> very arduino of them
[23:26:32] <GuShH_> they used to give you a real toolbox
[23:26:34] <GuShH_> haha
[23:26:35] * JT-Shop is back in the land of Popeye's and sane roads...
[23:26:59] <MattyMatt> the electronics do look rinkydink. probably TB6560
[23:27:01] <CaptHindsight> welcome back JT, how was the weather?
[23:27:07] <GuShH_> "market research shows the target demographic prefers tupperware over actual toolboxes"
[23:27:16] <JT-Shop> mid 80's with a nice breeze
[23:27:38] <GuShH_> a hipster is illustrated by placing a picture of larry king next to the paragraph.
[23:27:49] <JT-Shop> I'm just glad I never have to go back
[23:28:38] <CaptHindsight> selling a fiberglass mold/mould and a drum of epoxy for machine frames would work
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[23:28:52] <JT-Shop> 300 emails to sort through!
[23:29:06] <GuShH_> just delete them all
[23:29:08] <GuShH_> no need to sort then
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[23:29:23] <CaptHindsight> to the lumber yard
[23:29:24] <JT-Shop> I usually do but I'm looking for an important one
[23:29:31] <MattyMatt> CaptHindsight, yeah just buy gravel & sand locally
[23:30:24] <CaptHindsight> decent epoxy is only $3-4 per lb
[23:30:33] <CaptHindsight> density is ~1
[23:30:42] <MattyMatt> I can't get it that cheap
[23:30:53] <CaptHindsight> by the drum
[23:31:07] <CaptHindsight> we get it in 200kg drums
[23:31:22] <MattyMatt> the polyester stuff shinks a bit. pure epoxy is zero shrinkage
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[23:31:31] <CaptHindsight> it depends
[23:31:48] <CaptHindsight> and once you start adding sand, pebbles, beads etc
[23:32:16] <MattyMatt> yeah, it's better than portland cement for sure
[23:32:31] <GuShH_> hipster cement?
[23:32:35] <MattyMatt> although that's so cheap, it's still on my menu
[23:32:42] <CaptHindsight> not sure who sells drums in the UK
[23:32:50] <CaptHindsight> maybe rahn
[23:33:00] <MattyMatt> any boatbuilder
[23:33:17] <CaptHindsight> Ineos
[23:33:17] <MattyMatt> that's where 90% of fibreglass goes here
[23:33:45] <andypugh> Glasplies, Liverpool
[23:34:37] <andypugh> http://www.glasplies.co.uk
[23:34:41] <MattyMatt> sweet
[23:35:32] <MattyMatt> £94 for 7.5kg of epoxy. that's about what I've found elsewhere
[23:36:21] <CaptHindsight> $155.40 wow for 7.5kg?
[23:36:38] <_methods> west system?
[23:36:47] <MattyMatt> so ~£8 a lb which is around $12 I think atm
[23:36:52] <CaptHindsight> the pricey stuff is $8/kg
[23:36:53] <humble_sea_bass> west systems is good
[23:36:57] <_methods> hell yeah
[23:37:02] <humble_sea_bass> but you pay a premium for i dunno what
[23:37:09] <_methods> quality
[23:37:11] <CaptHindsight> yeah, so they mark it up 100%
[23:37:16] <humble_sea_bass> mainly for being able to go grab it in midtown manhattan
[23:37:33] <_methods> we used to buy it in 55 gal drums lol
[23:37:37] <_methods> was a bit cheaper
[23:37:55] <andypugh> glasplies are very helpful, and have been in the game for decades
[23:37:59] <_methods> for exterior column glue ups and architectural woodwork
[23:38:10] <MattyMatt> and they are local for me
[23:38:17] <_methods> you don't want to buy cheap epoxy
[23:38:25] * MattyMatt wonders If I can tote 25kg drums on the bus
[23:38:35] <GuShH_> doubtful
[23:38:36] <andypugh> I think I borrowed my folk's car and dropped in when I made my bike panniers
[23:38:36] <CaptHindsight> http://www.rahn-group.com/en/cosmetics/sales/rahn/
[23:38:37] <_methods> especially when you've got $100,000 worth of some exotic wood going in something
[23:39:18] <CaptHindsight> 20kg pails are usually $2-3 more per lb
[23:39:25] <CaptHindsight> the encourage drum sales
[23:39:28] <CaptHindsight> they
[23:39:55] <humble_sea_bass> I used to use the west systems epoxy to coat pool coping at this skate park. it was the only thing that kept the skateboards from killing the coping
[23:40:01] <_methods> you gotta hustle on a hot day doing a big glue up
[23:40:09] <CaptHindsight> http://igmresins.com/contact#united-kingdom
[23:40:18] <_methods> yeah west system is hard to beat
[23:40:57] <humble_sea_bass> the additives were super fun too
[23:41:26] <_methods> hell yeah
[23:41:27] <_methods> the filler
[23:41:31] <_methods> or whatever you want
[23:41:36] <humble_sea_bass> people nearly died when we added graphite and it made the surface so slic
[23:41:41] <_methods> hehehhehe
[23:41:42] <CaptHindsight> a 200kg drum will be ~$2000
[23:41:42] <_methods> i bet
[23:41:46] <XXCoder1> ow
[23:41:53] <_methods> http://www.mscdirect.com/product/00063909?src=pla&008=-99&007=Search&pcrid=15557577904&006=15557577904&005=21882504424&004=4409695744&002=2167139&mkwid=sJXegN7a0%7Cdc&cid=PLA-Google-PLA+-+Test_sJXegN7a0_PLA__15557577904_c_S&026=-99&025=c
[23:42:04] <_methods> that's another secret thing
[23:42:14] <_methods> you ever need to tap something untappable
[23:42:21] <XXCoder1> humble you know you have gone too far when skateboard wheels dont rotate at all on it. ;)
[23:42:25] <_methods> put a bit of that on angelina jolies lips
[23:42:32] <XXCoder1> just very smoothly slide lol
[23:42:33] <humble_sea_bass> for cheap epoxy i order from US Composites
[23:42:36] <MattyMatt> graphite filler would be good on a machine tool, I think
[23:42:50] <MattyMatt> unless you were planning to paint it
[23:43:05] <_methods> you can tap granite with a dull spoon if you use that anchor lube
[23:43:05] <humble_sea_bass> Grinding on the coping was some scary shit while we had the graphite
[23:43:58] <JT-Shop> the amazing thing is you can travel from Puerto Rico to Swamp East Missouri in 11 hrs
[23:44:28] <MattyMatt> yeah it takes forever since they stopped running concorde on that route :)
[23:44:48] <Tom_itx> JT-Shop, how far to the local airport?
[23:45:00] <JT-Shop> 2.5hrs to anywhere
[23:45:05] <JT-Shop> 3 to some
[23:45:08] <_methods> ouch
[23:45:14] <humble_sea_bass> http://www.flickr.com/photos/illgrill/1423238476/in/set-72157602120169645
[23:45:28] <humble_sea_bass> this is the thing we coated in murder epoxy
[23:45:36] <_methods> nice
[23:45:37] <humble_sea_bass> just the coping
[23:45:39] <_methods> haha murder epoxy
[23:45:40] <XXCoder1> lol
[23:45:47] <JT-Shop> anyway just like Dorthy said "there ain't no place like home"
[23:45:56] <_methods> at least you can see stars
[23:45:59] <JT-Shop> see you guys tomorror
[23:46:02] <JT-Shop> w
[23:46:04] <XXCoder1> humble for njon-skaters, whats "coping"?
[23:46:24] <_methods> it's the top edge
[23:46:27] <_methods> of a pool
[23:46:31] <_methods> or curb
[23:46:33] <XXCoder1> ok
[23:46:34] <humble_sea_bass> it is the blocks that sit on top of your pool
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[23:46:51] <MattyMatt> do you fill it with water on hot days?
[23:47:05] <humble_sea_bass> no that one was made of nothing but wood
[23:47:07] * MattyMatt sees no drain
[23:47:18] <humble_sea_bass> http://www.flickr.com/photos/illgrill/1423237466/in/set-72157602120169645
[23:47:20] <XXCoder1> what the ehck https://secure.flickr.com/photos/illgrill/2654550490/in/set-72157602120169645/
[23:47:41] <andypugh> I did a day trip to germany on friday, then a 3 day trip this week. I have had enough of flying until at least next week.
[23:47:42] <_methods> i did that level on tony hawk
[23:48:39] <humble_sea_bass> XXCoder1: as it turned out, defrosting the skatepark with gasoline is a terrible idea
[23:48:53] <XXCoder1> cracked?
[23:49:06] <humble_sea_bass> it got rid of the ice, but the fumes at the bottom of the pool were real fucking bad
[23:49:25] <andypugh> _methods: Have you seen this page? A comedian with a similar name who responds to mis-directed fan mail: http://www.tony-hawks.com/skateboarding.php
[23:50:08] <_methods> haha no
[23:50:19] <_methods> hahahhahahah
[23:51:46] <XXCoder1> funny
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[23:53:18] <Tom_itx> they are our future
[23:53:42] <_methods> brawndo
[23:53:53] <_methods> it's got lectrolytes
[23:54:26] <humble_sea_bass> worked for me and I turned out alright
[23:54:26] <XXCoder1> everyone goes though moron stage. everyone.
[23:54:47] <XXCoder1> well some DON'T get out, but thats not here or there.
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