#linuxcnc | Logs for 2014-03-18

[00:06:27] * R2E4_ is searching for the z brake in theschematics again.
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[01:23:46] <MattyMatt> anyone in australia?
[01:24:55] <peepsalot> archivist, you around? i was told you know quite a bit about generating involute gear profiles?
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[01:25:42] <archivist> peepsalot, I generate the profile, why
[01:26:52] <peepsalot> i've read a few descriptions of the geometry of involute spur gears, but only for external gears, i'm wondering how it applies to internal gears, and also to putting teeth along more arbitrary curves (bezier for ex)
[01:27:32] <archivist> for internal you use a shaper to generate
[01:28:38] <peepsalot> shaper?
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[01:30:31] <archivist> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NuWnDpQR3q0
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[01:31:29] <archivist> that method works for internal and external gears, hobbing only works for external
[01:31:48] <peepsalot> i want to make a javascript/web based design app, to output paths for laser cutting(or other 2d machinig: waterjet/plasma/edm)
[01:32:36] <Bushman> g'nite
[01:32:39] <peepsalot> just trying to understand the math and algorithms that would be involved
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[01:35:15] <archivist> hmm a reading list http://www.collection.archivist.info/searchv13.php?searchstr=621.833
[01:35:31] Groguard is now known as zz_Groguard
[01:42:29] <archivist> you only need learn the involute curve for that, that follows the curve, not generate the curve by the action of generation as performed in a machine
[01:43:45] <archivist> http://mathworld.wolfram.com/Involute.html
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[01:48:58] <peepsalot> well i think i understand the use of the involute curve for external gears, but i can't conceptualize that taut string analogy for an internal gear
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[01:52:24] <archivist> think of a gear that is one to one but one is internal one external, a spline coupling but with involute for teeth,...the internal is the same
[01:53:16] <archivist> they do actually make involute splines by the way
[01:54:29] <peepsalot> hrm, ok
[01:57:39] <peepsalot> so i'm thinking for an arbitary curve, then generate an involute based on just the radius of curvature at each point along it, so i could make all kinds of weird shapes like the three lobed thing in this pic for example: http://www.samstoybox.com/toypics/SpirographBox86.jpg
[01:58:46] <peepsalot> but besides calculating the involute it seems there is a lot more to consider to avoid interference?
[02:02:38] <archivist> the contact remains correct for a pair of gears when you increase the centre distance, one of the strange parts of the curve, so a small undercut % gives clearance at some nominal distance
[02:05:19] <peepsalot> archivist, ok. does it make sense what i said about attempting this on an arbitrary curve?
[02:08:31] <archivist> yup, http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLihfuOMgTWQ60xbG50GXR4cT9igSgiCb-
[02:11:21] <Tom_itx> any practical applicatons for those?
[02:12:25] <archivist> variable speed motion
[02:12:52] <archivist> or toys like spirograph
[02:13:21] <Tom_itx> or other mechanisms
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[02:30:10] <Connor_iPad> So, what are we talking about tonight?
[02:30:56] <skunkworks> I was afraid to ask..
[02:31:37] <Tom_itx> all i hear is crickets
[02:31:56] <Connor_iPad> I remember having one of those Spirograph when I was a kid.
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[02:34:23] <skunkworks> so do I
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[02:35:33] <skunkworks> then I wrote a spirograph program for linuxcnc ;)
[02:35:35] <skunkworks> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?Oword#Sample_3_loops_math_example_spirograph
[02:35:44] <skunkworks> (just to see if it could be done..)
[02:35:49] <Connor_iPad> How long has those things been around?
[02:36:55] <Tom_itx> they just don't make 'good' toys anymore
[02:37:43] <Connor_iPad> Erector sets. Rocked.
[02:40:05] <skunkworks> expert builder sets from legos where pretty good also
[02:40:18] <skunkworks> actually legos mindstorms where pretty good
[02:40:30] <Connor_iPad> Yup
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[02:40:43] <skunkworks> learned a lot about gears :)
[02:43:31] <Connor_iPad> Yup
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[02:47:13] <tjtr33> just saw JMK's fusee in a japanese clockwork doll http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i5zYK9FxORI near 6:25
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[02:53:46] <Connor_iPad> tjtr33: Huh?
[02:59:16] <R2E4_> Hi guys
[02:59:59] <R2E4_> I have on my Z a brake that stops the Z motorfrom turning when power is off. It holds the Z axis where it is.
[03:00:36] <tjtr33> a fusee was done linuxcnc by John Kasunich
[03:00:54] <tjtr33> he wrote Hal
[03:02:09] <R2E4_> In the schematics, When power is applied to the machine it closes one of two relay contacts in series. The second relay contact the old control controlled it. When the two relays are energized, it sends 90vdc to the brake. I would imagine when the Z axis drive gets enabled it closes the second relaywhich removes the Z brake\
[03:03:41] <R2E4_> Myt question is, does it make sense to put it in a ladder so that when the machines-is-on start a timer for a few seconds then energize the second relay so it will give a few seconds after drive is enabled so the Z wont drop if they are enabled at the same time.
[03:04:01] <R2E4_> Does that make sense?
[03:04:03] <tjtr33> usually brake are off when they get powered ( a safety method, if you loose power, brake is on )
[03:04:44] <R2E4_> yes, it removes the brake upon powerup and control says to. Thats the way it worked on the old system.
[03:04:53] <tjtr33> so i dont hink "When the two relays are energized, it sends 90vdc to the brake" is true
[03:04:56] <R2E4_> two inputs.
[03:05:09] <tjtr33> could be
[03:05:34] <R2E4_> Thats the way it is in the schematics.
[03:05:56] <R2E4_> The two contacts are in series.
[03:05:58] <XXCoder1> someone made cnc out of lego
[03:06:08] <XXCoder1> foam cutter but still
[03:06:27] <R2E4_> So when power is removed, the relay falls out applying the brake.
[03:06:40] <R2E4_> Well, thats how I am reading it.
[03:06:44] <tjtr33> R2E4, then it makes sense ( had to re-read it withseries in mind )
[03:08:20] <XXCoder1> whats typical router bit diameter?
[03:09:35] <tjtr33> R2E4, making timers is not direct, can you put a lever/button switch on the brake that says 'i really am on, i really am off' ?
[03:10:08] <tjtr33> its like a piston with travel
[03:10:20] <R2E4_> The brake is in the motor
[03:10:37] <tjtr33> yah
[03:10:39] <R2E4_> I can have a contact when I send it 90 volts
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[03:11:25] <R2E4_> page 41 of pdf, document number E2731-10-041-00
[03:11:38] <R2E4_> http://www.irmtl.com/cnct/VM40%20WITH%20SEICOS%20M2-MICON16-2.pdf
[03:11:51] <tjtr33> loading
[03:12:35] <R2E4_> AB being when power is applied to the machine, it energizes and DR3 is the old control giving its approval.
[03:12:52] <tjtr33> pdf is slow & big 6% so far
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[03:14:09] <R2E4_> page 22 of the pdf shows the connections of the motor to BR2 and BR4
[03:14:17] <tjtr33> yeh your description sounded like 'i want it' and ' its ok honey'
[03:14:48] <tjtr33> 2 series contacts
[03:15:12] <tjtr33> jeez 35%
[03:15:45] <R2E4_> Having trouble my web server connections.
[03:15:54] <R2E4_> Centos...... jeez!\
[03:16:10] <R2E4_> no load, probably network supplier
[03:16:26] <tjtr33> im using wget to avid http-ing it
[03:17:49] <tjtr33> jst had multi hour talk to Taiwan and Australia tryng to resolve some specs, went from video conference down to chat line, everyone was dropping out
[03:18:25] <R2E4_> I have to change dists, not happy with centos. Their rsync is buggy
[03:18:51] <tjtr33> running linuxcnc on cnetos?
[03:18:57] <tjtr33> centos
[03:19:01] <R2E4_> nop
[03:19:06] <R2E4_> No!!!
[03:19:15] <R2E4_> Thats m,y web server at work
[03:20:04] <tjtr33> ok got pdf... p41...
[03:20:25] <R2E4_> I have just the Z axis, spindle and toolchanger to work out. Everything else is working, including 20 button contro lpanel and mpg.
[03:21:54] <R2E4_> p47 of pdf document # 41
[03:22:33] <R2E4_> 1A and 2A is 100vac
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[03:23:48] <R2E4_> Those relays were on the hitachi p[lc distribution board. I ripped it out, and put in bankls of 7i77 and 7i84 relays
[03:24:08] <tjtr33> im there
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[03:24:59] <R2E4_> There cutting both legs of the 90vdc
[03:25:05] <R2E4_> IS that neccesary?
[03:25:06] <tjtr33> morns,drawing a box around an idea looks like damn wires
[03:25:32] <XXCoder1> hm exported toolpath from cambam to ncsim
[03:25:38] <R2E4_> yeah.... I hate that, this manual is full of that.
[03:25:42] <XXCoder1> it dont look close to what cambam shows
[03:26:05] <XXCoder1> its supposed to be smiley but in ncsim it looks like abstract art
[03:26:12] <R2E4_> XXCoder1: did you select the emc2 post processor?
[03:26:20] <XXCoder1> lemme look for that
[03:26:38] <XXCoder1> in ncsim?
[03:26:47] <R2E4_> Cam p[rogram
[03:27:10] <R2E4_> IT has to create the gcode according to what machine you are going to run it on.
[03:27:34] <R2E4_> oh, ncsim, I thought you were opening it in linuxcnc
[03:27:37] <XXCoder1> ahh hmm cambam dont seem to give me choice maybe its in setting
[03:28:37] <XXCoder1> I dont use linux. in least til I got actual cnc lol just learning stuff about software see if I can hack it before I lay down any cash heh
[03:28:51] <XXCoder1> cambam is fun
[03:29:55] <R2E4_> cambam doesnt have p[ost for emc2 or linuxcnc?
[03:30:17] <XXCoder1> when I savetoolpath it just saves file
[03:30:17] <CaptHindsight> tjtr33: http://imagebin.org/299769 http://imagebin.org/299770 http://imagebin.org/299771 Keiling router, no limit switches, "red oxide" treated fasteners, Y hard stop is the wiring, no anodize, etc etc
[03:30:20] <XXCoder1> dont see any option
[03:30:36] <zeeshan> http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p252/turbozee84/86307D91-3469-4E08-85B7-26471F0058BB_zpsprgmamcc.jpg
[03:30:43] <zeeshan> whoever suggested the vertical power bar idea
[03:30:44] <zeeshan> thank u
[03:30:48] <zeeshan> its much better now
[03:30:59] <XXCoder1> youre welcome. nah not me heh
[03:31:07] <zeeshan> i thought it was you
[03:31:20] <zeeshan> now i can mount a shelf where the powerbar used to be
[03:31:34] <XXCoder1> my suggestion was flip dust protect with foam for wire area, and lowered bar
[03:31:38] <R2E4_> zeeshan: no problem, its a public service and I'm gladto help.... lol
[03:31:42] <zeeshan> hahah
[03:32:12] <zeeshan> my garage is so dusty
[03:32:16] <zeeshan> i need to dust it
[03:32:21] <tjtr33> R2E4, i see ac rail 1A thru fuse F1 becoming signal 1A0 to contact DR-2 becoming signal A101 to Zbrake coil BRKZ to ac rail 2A. DR2 is on p53 "Standby Servo-On"
[03:32:43] <XXCoder1> zee theres design that uses big ass filter to really lower dust level
[03:33:11] <R2E4_> Thats for the dynamic braking.
[03:33:13] <XXCoder1> it uses air circution system filter, expensive type thats 3-5 inches deep and some ok fan
[03:33:23] <XXCoder1> lowers dust level good
[03:33:41] <R2E4_> 1A0 inp[ut into SEC1(bridge rect)
[03:33:46] <XXCoder1> zeeshan: https://woodgears.ca/dust/air_cleaner.html
[03:35:27] <tjtr33> CaptHindsight, looks ok, maybe 10"x18" table (not very flat) what would you use it for? not DLP worthy
[03:35:49] <R2E4_> AB and DR3 the brake is ZBR
[03:35:59] <zeeshan> i dont do wood work much
[03:36:04] <zeeshan> its mostly metal dust ;p
[03:36:18] <XXCoder1> yeah it would only filter out fine dust
[03:36:22] <R2E4_> zeeshan: nice sandblaster
[03:36:33] <zeeshan> R2E4: princess auto special
[03:36:35] <zeeshan> lol
[03:36:47] <zeeshan> it leaked dust even with a dust collector on it
[03:36:54] <XXCoder1> new position or strip is nice
[03:37:08] <zeeshan> so instead of removing the metal pieces and caulking the joints
[03:37:13] <zeeshan> i just stuck aluminum foil tape on it
[03:37:13] <tjtr33> R2E4, ok the ac feeds bridge, and contacts AB and DR3 are rest of circuit
[03:37:15] <zeeshan> doesnt leak anymore
[03:37:26] <R2E4_> cost?
[03:37:32] <zeeshan> for the blaster?
[03:37:46] <R2E4_> tjtr33: yeah
[03:37:53] <XXCoder1> heh we got lucky, we have sandblaster we got basically for free. rather large one
[03:38:12] <zeeshan> R2E4: go get it!
[03:38:12] <XXCoder1> just need few new parts, its top cover is all kinds of fucked
[03:38:13] <zeeshan> its on sale
[03:38:14] <tjtr33> R2E4, but i dont see any feedback showing brake actually energized or de-energized ( actually moved )
[03:38:14] <zeeshan> http://www.princessauto.com/pal/en/Abrasive-Blasters/Powerfist-Floor-Model-Abrasive-Blasting-Cabinet/8046492.p
[03:38:19] <R2E4_> You see the AB coil; on that page. 1A and 2A is 100vac. DR3 is from the control
[03:38:24] <zeeshan> you have to 2 modifications for it to work right
[03:38:47] <R2E4_> There is no mechanical indication.
[03:38:53] <R2E4_> I dont think.
[03:39:06] <zeeshan> XXCoder1: i hate how sand blasters take so much room ;p
[03:39:24] <XXCoder1> yeah air pressure tank, the box, vacum
[03:39:40] <CaptHindsight> tjtr33: going to rework it and true it all up, it's good enough for stepper and ballscrew 0.002" repeatability and micro-nozzle deposition
[03:40:26] <CaptHindsight> tjtr33: but that's all you get for the $700 base price from Keiling, they don't even clean the parts before assembly
[03:40:33] <R2E4_> on page 55 of pdf document page 49 shows the DR3 bneing energized by the control.
[03:40:38] <zeeshan> XXCoder1: i didnt have my sand blaster groundfed
[03:40:39] <tjtr33> DR3 = "Z Brake Off" control line. I only suggested a positive indication for changing control over to linuxcnc. but my way requires changing ladder logic
[03:40:45] <zeeshan> man i got shocked so bad =D
[03:40:47] <zeeshan> make sure its grounded|!
[03:40:51] <XXCoder1> lol
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[03:40:59] <XXCoder1> ill keep that in mind
[03:40:59] <R2E4_> I can do ladder logic.
[03:41:03] <zeeshan> bloody moving dust makes static charge like crazy
[03:41:31] <tjtr33> CaptHindsight, yeah, my Sable 2014 was dead clean & square from Taiwan, black anodized, very heavy for same size. pleased
[03:41:45] <R2E4_> IS it worth to take the motor apart and install a mechanical indication that the brake is off?
[03:42:10] <zeeshan> i'd thinkso
[03:42:12] <zeeshan> :p
[03:42:15] <tjtr33> R2E4, i didnt say to remove ladder logic, but a positive indication would be an extra item
[03:42:26] <CaptHindsight> tjtr33: http://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/T-slot-cast-iron-floor-plate_128754238.html ever see these imported here? they would be nice starts for DIY builds
[03:42:45] <tjtr33> the worth is up to you. right now sending the signal ASSUMEs the action has occured
[03:43:45] <R2E4_> I am having many mechanical guys telling me the Z wont drop that the threads on the ballscrew would hold it. IS that true?
[03:43:48] <R2E4_> Your opinion?
[03:43:55] <tjtr33> CaptHindsight, yes, a cast iron bed would be nice, you cound send it out and get it ground, then jackscrew it to wright it
[03:44:05] <Connor_iPad> Aren't most breaks controlled by the servo driver?
[03:44:57] <tjtr33> R2E4, depends, but in my experience, one twist on that screw and it'll run away if it has any mass. ask Fenn, he and I had the Mazak do it.
[03:45:14] <R2E4_> ok.
[03:45:15] <tjtr33> brakes controlled by estop
[03:45:21] <R2E4_> IT is huge the Z on this thing.
[03:46:02] <tjtr33> heh i grabbed a bar and stopped it, pulled off my leather bealt and lashed it uo while Fenn got a wood block under it
[03:46:06] <R2E4_> or machine-is-on?
[03:46:40] <R2E4_> when machine-is-on = true remove brake.
[03:47:17] <XXCoder1> went for cutviewer, its processing file properly
[03:47:19] <tjtr33> the relaese-brake stae may be handled that way, the stop-everybody-right-now may be estaop
[03:47:20] <R2E4_> I do have a ready out of the drive that I can use also.
[03:47:24] <CaptHindsight> you want a brake on the Z with a ballscrew, if it doesn't the screw is bad
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[03:48:16] <R2E4_> This Z has a 1.75 inch ballscrew
[03:48:58] <tjtr33> its the pitch.. high pitchis easy runaway, 1mm pitch ... you got a chance it wont always be ready to kill you
[03:49:44] <tjtr33> typical 5mm pitch, is deadly w no brake and heavy spindle
[03:50:17] <CaptHindsight> why would you not want a brake? save money?
[03:50:23] <R2E4_> If I use machine-is-on, then when estop is tripped, machine-is-on is false.
[03:50:47] <tjtr33> im off to dinner, l8r!
[03:51:01] <R2E4_> IT has a brake. Just trying to figure the logic.
[03:52:00] <R2E4_> The old control I ripped out controlled the Z brake.
[03:52:03] <tjtr33> CaptHindsight, that frkn table is Mumbai... no way I'd buy Indian stuff, you think China is hard to get good parts!
[03:52:30] <CaptHindsight> just a pic
[03:52:40] <tjtr33> oh, good idea
[03:52:45] <CaptHindsight> t-slot curry is to die for
[03:52:50] <tjtr33> dinner!
[03:57:03] <CaptHindsight> http://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/Essential-Tool-T-Slot-Cast-Iron_1616655837.html
[03:58:37] <XXCoder1> price: $10. shipping $1000
[03:59:18] <XXCoder1> honestly dunno heh
[04:04:42] Groguard is now known as zz_Groguard
[04:08:04] <CaptHindsight> http://www.surplusrecord.com/cgi-bin/adpop.pl?704468 60" x 60" x 4.5" , T-Slotted Floor Plates, Cast Iron, 95 Available
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[04:13:59] <XXCoder1> does linuxcnc has cut simulator
[04:17:30] <Connor_iPad> Yea. Itself.
[04:17:48] <XXCoder1> thats good
[04:18:14] <XXCoder1> cutviewer don't seem to read nc files from cambam correctly
[04:18:32] <XXCoder1> better than ncsim though lol
[04:26:12] <R2E4_> I cant use machine-is-on....
[04:27:48] <Connor_iPad> Why?
[04:32:47] <R2E4_> IF I use ladder logic I guess I can. When Machine-is-on and drive enabled timer 3 seconds then thurn brake off.
[04:33:15] <R2E4_> hit estop, machine is on = false brake goes on.
[04:34:06] <R2E4_> IS it sufficient to use classic ladder for that?
[04:35:44] <tjtr33> CaptHindsight, hey that a great floor! i'm remodelling the kitchen and i bet nobody hast a cast iron tslotted floor :) and its local
[04:36:36] <tjtr33> XXCoder1, bot a cut simulator, a path view is all ( no stock visually cut )
[04:36:43] <tjtr33> not a cut simulator
[04:36:53] <XXCoder1> ok
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[04:43:24] <tjtr33> XXCoder1, the new HeekCNC has stock removal animation, but M$ only afaict ( wouldnt run under Wine for me on Ubuntu 10.04)
[04:44:22] <tjtr33> HeeksCNC at heeks.net
[04:44:26] <XXCoder1> not bad thanks
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[05:05:45] <The_Ball> Does Charles Steinkuehler hang out here?
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[05:21:27] <tjtr33> wow full syllabus for CNC course at Texas A&M 918 pages http://files.eric.ed.gov/fulltext/ED422486.pdf
[05:21:42] <tjtr33> this gov resource 'ERIC" has a lot of stuff
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[05:28:26] <tjtr33> CaptHindsight, maybe these optical tables are your kinda stuff http://www.bmius.com/c-431-optical-tables-breadboards.aspx
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[07:50:19] <Deejay> moin
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[11:54:30] <skunkworks> hey - charles! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p1A6IcJqJXA
[11:56:16] <XXCoder1> wish more videos was captioned lol
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[12:09:59] <JT_PR> morning
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[12:16:50] <Swapper_> morning
[12:17:02] <Swapper_> or / afternoon here :)
[12:19:19] <archivist> just afternoon and time to fix the washing machine grrrrrrrr
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[12:22:50] <JT_PR> call the guys from "
[12:23:06] <JT_PR> secret life of machines for washing machine help
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[12:26:14] <gonzo_> Tim Hunkin and Rax Rarrod? From memory anyway
[12:26:29] <gonzo_> garrod
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[12:29:47] <JT_PR> sounds like them
[12:35:14] <gonzo_> I watched a couple of episodes last week
[12:37:51] <gonzo_> loved the home made fax machiine on the lathes
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[12:51:47] <archivist> I hate the de-connect, drag to back door, drain and clean the blocked filter, reverse to refit.... and try again to get clothes clean
[12:52:18] <archivist> was rather blocked :)
[12:52:30] <jdh> I can clean mine in place
[12:53:12] <jdh> well. mostly in place. I have to tip it back 45-degrees to get to the filter, then slice my arm/hand a few times. Pinch myself with the stupid clip you can't get to, then reverse.
[12:57:25] <archivist> its the deluge that make me drag it out the back door
[12:58:02] <archivist> worst is the benches above that need clearing first
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[14:30:14] * skunkworks hugs linuxcnc
[14:30:14] <skunkworks> http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/dmg-mori-gildemeister-maho-cnc/fix-your-maho-thread-270525/index5.html#post2253156
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[14:37:27] <skunkworks> pcw_home, do you see his comment on the ground with mesa hardware? (non differential analog output)
[14:37:37] <skunkworks> (works fine here :) )
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[14:49:01] <pcw_home> I dont think I have ever seen a controller that has differential _outputs_
[14:49:03] <pcw_home> We do have the option of isolated analog outputs but the are seldom needed
[14:49:04] <pcw_home> (only if there is a severe ground loop issue)
[14:51:35] <skunkworks> pcw_home, can I quote you?
[14:52:01] <archivist> I just had a google and found images of what my 5 axis mill started out as http://www.collection.archivist.info/archive/mirror/citizen_cincom_PT-120/
[14:52:08] <skunkworks> (what you just said?)
[14:52:44] <skunkworks> archivist, cool!
[14:53:24] <skunkworks> your google search brought back your own site?
[14:53:26] <archivist> I just found the model number on the microscope part when digging under a bench
[14:53:38] <archivist> no I stole the images :)
[14:53:44] <skunkworks> ah
[14:54:47] <archivist> same images on another http://inv.automatics.com/q/webinv/000682=p,,0P3553,,p,,,10247841
[14:57:38] <pcw_home> Sure but I would add that good analog drives have differential inputs
[14:57:39] <pcw_home> and this is what provides common mode rejection.
[14:58:46] <archivist> I mean borrowed...seems that second set are larger
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[15:01:00] <skunkworks> pcw_home, ok? http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/dmg-mori-gildemeister-maho-cnc/fix-your-maho-thread-270525/index5.html#post2253613
[15:01:53] <skunkworks> He has your boards but decided to go galil instead
[15:02:06] <skunkworks> (and camsoft)
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[15:04:58] <jdh> 20% off plus Free Shipping with No Product Exlucsions
[15:05:06] <jdh> almost makes me want to buy somethign from enco
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[15:06:53] <Swapper_> anyone using touchprobe here ? need to know a bit if its possible to calibrate the probe in software.
[15:07:21] <jdh> in what sense?
[15:08:23] <Swapper_> a touchprobe will have runout when mounted, but normaly on comercial systems you calibrate the probe in software.
[15:09:18] <Swapper_> renishaw have calibration rutines for comercial cnc controlls, i whant to do the same in linuxcnc
[15:10:00] <jdh> it spins the probe?
[15:10:36] <Swapper_> no it will not, its static
[15:10:44] <cradek> I have a precision bore (for calibrating a bore gauge) and I use that for probe centering
[15:10:52] <Swapper_> but the probe tip will not be axactly centric
[15:10:54] <cradek> probe it, turn the spindle 180 degrees, probe it again
[15:11:06] <cradek> then adjust the probe tip so the match
[15:11:09] <cradek> so they
[15:11:11] <jdh> without spinning the probe, seems like a chicken/egg thing
[15:11:27] <cradek> yes surely you have to rotate the spindle
[15:11:45] <skunkworks> heh - I calibrated our probe by boring a hole.. the probing..
[15:11:58] <skunkworks> *then
[15:11:59] <Swapper_> in comercial models you make a "rough" adjustment with screws then the last part is done in software
[15:12:01] <cradek> or if your machine is nice and repeatable, use an indicator to center over the bore, then probe it
[15:12:24] <cradek> Swapper_: you could measure and store offsets, and apply them to your proble results, but that's something you'll have to do yourself in gcode
[15:12:29] <cradek> probe results
[15:12:31] <cradek> can't type today
[15:12:50] <Swapper_> cradek: that would probably be OK
[15:13:01] <cradek> my renishaw has really good adjustment screws and I had no trouble getting it centered to my satisfaction
[15:13:04] <Swapper_> but where to start :)
[15:13:22] <cradek> start by adjusting the screws using one of the obvious techniques
[15:13:36] <cradek> then you might find it's good enough, and you're done!
[15:13:39] <Swapper_> i only have the probe part of a renishaw probe (no holder) so if i make one i guess it will not be a s good
[15:14:15] <jdh> if you can't afford a real probe, how accurate do you need really need to be.
[15:14:16] <cradek> renishaw will sell them to you
[15:14:21] <Swapper_> have any good design on a runout adjustable holder ?
[15:14:23] <cradek> I made the holder for mine
[15:14:35] <Swapper_> any pics?
[15:14:43] <cradek> yes use renishaw's design. they even have prints for you to follow
[15:14:54] <Swapper_> need inspiration, cant buy the holder since it will cost more then the whole mill :)
[15:15:05] <Swapper_> and the probe
[15:15:43] <Swapper_> on there hompage ?
[15:16:02] <Swapper_> the ones i found where mostly manuals and rough outlines.
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[15:16:45] <Swapper_> http://resources.renishaw.com/en/details/data-sheet-adaptors-extensions-and-holders-for-probes--17942
[15:16:54] <Swapper_> where somting though.
[15:17:27] <cradek> which probe and how much of it do you have?
[15:18:25] <Swapper_> its a LP2
[15:18:31] <Swapper_> you mean how much it cost?
[15:18:53] <Swapper_> oh its the prob head and a FS1
[15:18:58] <Swapper_> now i got it
[15:19:11] <Swapper_> FS1 cover allready mounted
[15:19:49] <Swapper_> simplest would be to stick it in a simple holder and make the rest in software :)
[15:20:01] <Swapper_> But guess thats not the right way to do it
[15:20:21] <Swapper_> And then i cant get my head arround how to make a good rounout adjustment (in 4 axies)
[15:21:04] <cradek> even if you have software adjustment you have to get it reasonably well centered, right? you can't just glue it on any old way
[15:21:12] <cradek> I don't understand what you mean by 4 axes
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[15:22:22] <Swapper_> if i have the probe mounted in the spindle dont i have to adjust the +x -x +y -y oritentation of the tip ?
[15:22:39] <cradek> yes and that's two axes
[15:22:53] <cradek> do you already have spindle orient and lock?
[15:22:58] <Swapper_> yea ok sorry, eng is not my native language :)
[15:23:16] <Swapper_> i will have servo as spindle so it will lock and orient
[15:23:20] <Swapper_> to index
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[15:26:00] <Swapper_> simplest is to make a adaptor that fits in a collet > LP2 probe thread
[15:26:08] <Swapper_> But that will be no near concentric
[15:26:38] <Swapper_> and since the tip in it self is not per default concentric to the probe body i still need a way to adjust it
[15:26:58] <Swapper_> but looking for a deasent design for a holder
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[15:56:45] <CaptHindsight> a few weeks/months ago tjttr33 posted a link of a pick-n-place project that started using Linuxcnc, anyone recall the project?
[15:57:29] <CaptHindsight> IIRC it was connected to the pick-n-place at the hackerpsace in Chicago PS1
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[15:59:59] <skunkworks> was it this? https://www.buildyourcnc.com/PickandPlaceMachineTheredFrog.aspx
[16:00:54] <skunkworks> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CVlad7l9HvI
[16:03:19] <CaptHindsight> skunkworks: I think so. I don't see where they have their mods to Linuxcnc, if there are any
[16:03:46] <skunkworks> I don't know if there are any - he is usung owords in gcode..
[16:05:00] <CaptHindsight> maybe they started using Linuxcnc and stopped, I recall tjttr33 had a link to their tree
[16:07:58] <skunkworks> Have not been following
[16:08:55] <CaptHindsight> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c_fd0X3--ws&list=PLF60EE5606562E2D1&index=22 @2:20 I see AXIS
[16:11:31] <CaptHindsight> how the hell can you have a pick and place made of wood? Did he never hear of ESD?
[16:15:15] <humble_sea_bass> thank you makerbot for making cut wood an acceptable machine tool structural material
[16:15:32] <humble_sea_bass> Makerbot: Infantilizing the things you care about
[16:15:48] <CaptHindsight> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CVlad7l9HvI&list=PLF60EE5606562E2D1&index=5 also @ 2:20
[16:17:02] <CaptHindsight> G-code with if and statements + subroutines
[16:17:22] <humble_sea_bass> is there a bullet hole in his monitor
[16:20:25] <CaptHindsight> it could have been worse, he could have used a Pi or Smoothie
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[16:22:08] <jdh> I like my Pis
[16:22:21] <cpresser> i like how the nozzle is used to feed new parts
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[16:27:52] <CaptHindsight> maybe it's due to businesses wanting to make everything disposable
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[16:32:12] <CaptHindsight> http://hackedgadgets.com/2012/12/24/269-high-speed-automatic-pick-and-place-machine/
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[16:49:56] <Connor> http://www.bmius.com/p-39965-thorlabs-aluminum-breadboard-12-x-24-x-34-inch.aspx <-- Wonder how good of a tool pate / spoil board that would make for my router...
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[16:50:14] <CaptHindsight> looks like the only quick way to have a demo machine is modify a router
[16:50:48] <CaptHindsight> Connor: it's only aluminum
[16:51:04] <Connor> Yea. I said router.. not mill..
[16:51:37] <Connor> the router is only made out of MDF
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[16:52:46] <CaptHindsight> lots of holes for fixtures and clamps
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[16:54:38] <Connor> Yup..
[16:54:48] <Connor> Need slightly different size...
[16:55:21] <CaptHindsight> check ebay. lots there in the lab/optics section
[16:55:45] <Connor> How good are those on flatness ?
[16:55:59] <CaptHindsight> new they are great
[16:56:46] <CaptHindsight> few microns
[16:57:42] <CaptHindsight> they are usually used with some anti-vibration system, some are even active
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[16:59:09] <CaptHindsight> http://www.newport.com/RS-Series-Research-Grade-Optical-Tables/436017/1033/info.aspx#tab_Specifications here's an example
[17:01:55] <CaptHindsight> http://www.thorlabs.com/newgrouppage9.cfm?objectgroup_id=159 this is the spec for the low grade Thorlabs plates
[17:02:37] <Connor> ±0.006" over 1 ft2
[17:02:41] <Connor> That's not that good.
[17:03:16] <CaptHindsight> hand lap it
[17:05:41] <CaptHindsight> Thorlabs isn't top end, they are like the TARGET of the optics world
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[17:27:33] <IchGuckLive> hi all B)
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[17:33:30] <CaptHindsight> so I have to finish auto homing with a camera and now add an image database, since they want a visual record of each part
[17:33:54] <kb8wmc> IchGuckLive: hello
[17:34:11] <IchGuckLive> ;-)
[17:35:13] <Connor> What sort of camera you using ?
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[17:42:20] <XXCoder1> I once read about using hockey pucks as legs bottom to lessen vibration
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[17:52:45] <Connor> My mill is going to be bolted to the base with hockey pucks under it to give clearance for coolant, and hopefully absorb vibrations.
[17:53:02] <XXCoder1> cool
[17:53:11] <XXCoder1> so it's pretty sensive to vibrations?
[17:53:12] <Connor> Only issue is, it's a through bolt.. so, it might not help much.
[17:53:18] <Connor> My Mill? no.
[17:53:25] <Connor> Was more for clearance..
[17:53:56] <XXCoder1> router cncs?
[17:54:07] <Connor> huh ?
[17:54:24] <XXCoder1> is router cncs more sensive to vibration
[17:54:33] <Einar> Volvo 240 motor mounts. Cut off one of the steel plates, and you have a machine foot with a bolt. Just need a nut.
[17:54:38] <Connor> Just depends on what your doing.
[17:55:10] <XXCoder1> suppose its smallish cnc thats cutting 1 mm alum or so
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[17:55:32] <Connor> Vibration is bad in general.. Can introduce chatter..
[17:55:41] <Connor> if you have vibration.. it's best to fix it.
[17:55:59] <XXCoder1> ok
[17:56:12] <XXCoder1> still learning a lot before I get cnc
[17:56:13] <Connor> I was talking about the optical plates above as a base plate for a FLATE plate...
[17:56:17] <Connor> to mill off of..
[17:56:24] <XXCoder1> flate?
[17:56:27] <Connor> flat.
[17:56:51] <XXCoder1> ok. thanks
[17:57:35] <XXCoder1> generally, cnc can cut thick alum if do it in some tiny interments? like 1 mm or so depth?
[17:58:46] <Connor> Depends on the machine, and the rigidity of it. But, any machine capable of milling alum should be able to do way better than 1mm
[17:59:26] <XXCoder1> ok. I really need to learn whats good feed rate and depth so on for various materials.
[17:59:43] <XXCoder1> don't want to waste time waiting cnc to compolete when it can do 10x deeper for example
[17:59:56] <IchGuckLive> Einar: did you get the features runing
[18:00:16] <Connor> They're are calculators that can give you the proper DOC, IPM and RPM based on materials and cutter type
[18:00:29] <XXCoder1> cool, thanks
[18:00:43] <XXCoder1> what kind of program? does cam software has em?
[18:00:56] <Connor> Some came packages have it.
[18:01:01] <XXCoder1> rpm is clear but whats ipm and doc?
[18:01:04] <Connor> some online programs.
[18:01:18] <Connor> Inches Per Minute, Depth of Cut
[18:01:28] <Connor> some standalone programs that cost $$$
[18:01:31] <XXCoder1> ahh yeah thanks
[18:02:08] <Connor> also, have to consider again, what your machine is able to do..
[18:02:35] <CaptHindsight> Connor: depends on the resolution or range of resolution required, simple webcam or $10K zoom microscope
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[18:03:06] <Connor> CaptHindsight: You doing closed loop with camera feedback in linuxcnc ?
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[18:03:35] <CaptHindsight> Connor: yeah, finishing that
[18:03:41] <XXCoder1> what happens if I set ipm faster than cnc can move? would it just go max speed possible or it gets screwed up?
[18:04:08] <Connor> CaptHindsight: Cool. I heard that the big issue with that is the amount of bandwidth needed by the camera.. and the fact that USB isn't Real Time
[18:04:41] <Connor> XXCoder1: The machine will move as fast as you have the Max Feed rate set too..
[18:05:03] <XXCoder1> ok
[18:05:09] <CaptHindsight> Connor: yes, some of the cameras are GbEthernet or firewire
[18:05:12] <Connor> But, you could also have other issues.. if it's not moving fast enough, you could overload the bit
[18:05:35] <Connor> and cause it jam up..
[18:05:35] <XXCoder1> by derbis from material?
[18:05:41] <Connor> yup.
[18:05:46] <CaptHindsight> you can use USB if you move slow enough
[18:06:47] <Connor> CaptHindsight: I have a $4 usb camera with manual focus that I got off of ebay for a spindle camera for edge finding etc.. manual.. but, would be nice to have a closed loop
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[18:08:49] <Connor> Need to make a mount for it..
[18:09:04] <Swapper_> where do i set the jogspeed? i have managed (i think) to close the servo loop on my servos in linuxcnc but they barely rotate when i jog
[18:09:29] <Connor> Should be a slider in Axis for Jog and Max Feed
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[18:10:15] <Swapper_> ah! max vel 59mm/min humpf need 5000 :)
[18:10:17] <Swapper_> there we go
[18:10:21] <Swapper_> ill try change it
[18:10:24] <Swapper_> ty
[18:10:27] <humble_sea_bass> use the <> keys
[18:10:42] <Swapper_> its at its max
[18:10:54] <Connor> Swapper_: carefull..
[18:11:07] <Swapper_> i have missed somthing in pncconf
[18:11:09] <Connor> Run Aways can be a b!tch
[18:11:21] <Swapper_> Connor: only loose motors
[18:11:27] <Connor> okay
[18:11:30] <Connor> Good
[18:11:34] <Connor> Much safer.
[18:11:42] <Connor> What type of servos ?
[18:11:52] <Swapper_> 2 yaskawas and 2 kollmorgen
[18:11:57] <Swapper_> sigma 2
[18:12:03] <Connor> What machine this for ?
[18:12:17] <Swapper_> my RF45"XL" mod
[18:12:58] <Connor> I would have thought you could have used some nice large steppers instead of servos on a RF45..
[18:13:06] <Connor> they can make things much simpler..
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[18:13:56] <Swapper_> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cCBw4jiQMLs
[18:14:05] <Swapper_> have steppers on my X2
[18:14:26] <CaptHindsight> tjtr33: do you recall the link to that pick and place project? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CVlad7l9HvI&list=PLF60EE5606562E2D1&index=5
[18:14:30] <Swapper_> mostly doin it for the fun of messing with this kind of stuff
[18:14:40] <tjtr33> checkin
[18:14:55] <CaptHindsight> tjtr33: was it the red frog from the guy at PS1?
[18:15:12] <CaptHindsight> I recall you having a link to some software
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[18:15:35] <CaptHindsight> red frog uses Linuxcnc and just gets fancy with G-code
[18:15:36] <tjtr33> http://openpnp.org/ ?
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[18:16:14] <Swapper_> is there a global max velocity setting that cant be changed in pncconf ?
[18:16:25] <tjtr33> or webepiknplace.org :)
[18:16:59] <CaptHindsight> tjtr33: I reacll they were going to use Linuxcnc and you asked us to warmly welcome them :)
[18:17:17] <tjtr33> oh _not_ openpnp?
[18:17:36] <CaptHindsight> don't think so
[18:17:40] <tjtr33> i dont recall being so nice ( ever )
[18:17:45] <CaptHindsight> looks like they are writing their own new thing
[18:17:56] <CaptHindsight> yes, it was unusual :)
[18:18:37] <CaptHindsight> I can't believe the machine is made of plywood
[18:19:56] <Connor> I can, cheap, easy to prototype in.
[18:20:11] <Connor> and it's not exactly plywood.. it's a special type of plywood..
[18:20:31] <CaptHindsight> zap your parts before they are even soldered down
[18:20:44] <Connor> How so ?
[18:20:49] <CaptHindsight> ESD
[18:21:16] <CaptHindsight> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electrostatic_discharge
[18:21:50] <tjtr33> sorry my bkmks only have red frog & openpnp ( on this machine )
[18:22:02] <CaptHindsight> thanks for checking!
[18:22:38] <CaptHindsight> I was hoping I could find a quick demo machine using Linuxcnc
[18:22:53] <tjtr33> the was a nice machine at a boston area surplus, ZYA, like a vertical polar with a gripper, near 400$
[18:22:56] <DaViruz> wood isn't very bad esd-wise
[18:23:04] <CaptHindsight> I'll just modify a printer
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[18:24:02] <pcw_home> Yeah I remember Van DeGraf generator plans that call wood a conductor
[18:25:08] <CaptHindsight> mostly cellulose and water
[18:29:00] <tjtr33> CaptHindsight, http://www.bmius.com/p-6640-panasonic-panarobo-cm-with-panadac-271-driver-and-p-271-programmer.aspx
[18:29:09] <CaptHindsight> I picked up some used SCARA's recently
[18:29:41] <tjtr33> no z ? maybe gripper extension ?
[18:30:12] <CaptHindsight> looks like just Z and X
[18:30:49] <tjtr33> A base rotates ( i thin )
[18:31:06] <CaptHindsight> well worth it
[18:31:16] <tjtr33> and it would make a nice tool server for sink edm , yeah nice price
[18:31:38] <tjtr33> ooh teach pendant
[18:32:23] <tjtr33> so its like polar with vertical
[18:32:50] <CaptHindsight> http://www.bmius.com/p-36399-sherline-model-4000-mini-lathe.aspx somebody here might like this for $375
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[18:34:40] <XXCoder1> that site has vaccum tubes lol
[18:35:10] <pcw_home> Fire Bottles!
[18:35:37] <CaptHindsight> a virtual cornucopia of fun stuff
[18:37:22] <CaptHindsight> http://www.bmius.com/p-6525-sylvania-6l6gc-electronic-tube.aspx the prices are higher than i recall
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[18:38:06] <CaptHindsight> I think they still make guitar amps with those
[18:39:02] <pcw_home> Yeah US made 6L6s are sought after
[18:39:53] <CaptHindsight> http://www.bmius.com/c-250-benchtop-machines.aspx tool holders
[18:40:20] <tjtr33> lotsa nice tool holders
[18:40:27] <XXCoder1> It'd be fun to learn how to control CRT by computer
[18:40:38] <XXCoder1> Someone made REAL tny one and made it work lol
[18:41:24] <XXCoder1> http://www.sparkbangbuzz.com/crt/crt6.htm
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[18:42:33] <tjtr33> ols school light pens captured the trace position and translated that into xy ( a stick with an opto reciever on end )
[18:42:55] <tjtr33> simple, cheap
[18:43:04] <CaptHindsight> now we are using them (electron guns) to deposit metals vs just excite some phosphor
[18:43:12] <pcw_home> If you dont want to build one you can get tiny magnetic deflection CRTs from old camcorders
[18:43:41] <XXCoder1> capt what can be done, can be overdone. build large array of electron guns to depost print circuits lol
[18:44:09] <CaptHindsight> XXCoder1: we do it now with lasers and dlp's
[18:44:22] <XXCoder1> lol guess I needed to catch up knowledge
[18:44:36] <XXCoder1> fine, upgrade it to 3d printer status ;)
[18:44:44] <CaptHindsight> but e-beamed copper is possible
[18:45:01] <CaptHindsight> just more expensive than laser right now
[18:45:44] <CaptHindsight> but to make a simple PCB you have to print both the substrate (board) and the copper traces
[18:46:54] <CaptHindsight> neat site, I forgot about them
[18:48:16] <XXCoder1> yeah read once, lost link
[18:48:25] <CaptHindsight> lots of Boston labs must be clearing out equipment, I bought several linear servo positioners from that area for the 1/4 the price of new ballscrew units
[18:48:26] <XXCoder1> reaing about TEA laser now
[18:50:50] <humble_sea_bass> is Boston Dynamics movin>?
[18:51:01] <CaptHindsight> Google bought them
[18:51:35] <XXCoder1> NEMA 23 motor for $295 huh
[18:51:46] <CaptHindsight> servo?
[18:51:46] <humble_sea_bass> they did, just curious if they are staying put in boston or what
[18:51:48] <XXCoder1> "gearhead probably is why http://www.bmius.com/p-39545-parker-ne23-005-lb-in-line-nema-gearhead.aspx
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[18:52:27] <CaptHindsight> it's just the gearhead
[18:52:45] <XXCoder1> pretty expensive. whats it dpo
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[18:52:58] <CaptHindsight> 5:1 reduction
[18:53:21] <XXCoder1> interesting. probably VERY accurate reduction too
[18:53:22] <Connor> So, spindle mount camera, or off set it and make it perma-mount ? Disadvantage to perma mount anyone ?
[18:53:55] <CaptHindsight> Connor: if it doesn't get in the way of anything....
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[18:54:41] <archivist> Connor, there is always a need for the camera to see something you did not think of first time
[18:54:50] <CaptHindsight> XXCoder1: http://www.parkermotion.com/products/Gearheads_and_Gearmotors____30_32_80_567_29.html
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[18:55:38] <XXCoder1> 3:1 to 100:1
[18:55:41] <archivist> Connor, like look sideways http://www.archivist.info/cnc/cnccam.html
[18:55:45] <Connor> It shouldn't if I mount it behind the spindle.. my question is.. any issues with using it as center/edge finder with it offset ? Would it still need to be perfectly parallel to the table, or could it be angled so it's center point is center point of the endmill ?
[18:56:12] <CaptHindsight> it depends on your lens
[18:56:22] <archivist> and and
[18:56:25] <Connor> Of course, it might have issues if I run flood.. :)
[18:56:44] <CaptHindsight> can it focus on the center if offset or angled?
[18:56:57] <Connor> It's manual focus..
[18:57:02] <archivist> have you got a telecentric lens
[18:57:20] <CaptHindsight> $4 usb webcam
[18:57:22] <Connor> I have NO idea what that means.. it's a cheap $4.00 camera from Chine.
[18:57:24] <CaptHindsight> so unlikely
[18:57:25] <Connor> China
[18:58:03] <archivist> is the optical axis pointing anything like the direction you think it should
[18:58:21] <CaptHindsight> http://www.edmundoptics.com/imaging/imaging-lenses/telecentric-lenses/ explains with examples here
[18:59:02] <Connor> archivist As far as I can tell..
[18:59:06] <CaptHindsight> Connor: can you get it to focus that close?
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[18:59:24] <Connor> I had it focusing rather closely..
[18:59:27] <CaptHindsight> Connor: how will it handle different tool lengths?
[18:59:28] <Connor> maybe 1/2"
[19:00:11] <CaptHindsight> set focus with the same tool length won't be a problem
[19:00:33] <Connor> Really wouldn't care about that would I?
[19:00:35] <archivist> their telecentric range has improved since I last looked
[19:00:43] <CaptHindsight> but what if one tool is 1" longer than another? will it still be in focus?
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[19:01:08] <Connor> Why would I care.. I wouldn't really need a tool in it to center / edge find...
[19:01:19] <CaptHindsight> I guess you could find the center and then ZERO and then put the tool in
[19:01:27] <Connor> Just thought it might be nice to not have to install the camera every time..
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[19:01:57] <Connor> wasn't sure if angling the camera would be better.. or just use a offset...
[19:02:30] <CaptHindsight> either as long as it doesn't move in reference to the center of the spindle
[19:03:31] <Connor> Hmm.. I just had a thought, It might be too far away to offer good enough resolution if it's not mounted right below the spindle..
[19:03:43] <CaptHindsight> run the numbers, how close do you have to be to have focus and the resolution required
[19:03:57] <archivist> what accuracy etc
[19:04:00] <CaptHindsight> see what the depth iof field is
[19:04:15] <Connor> That, I don't know yet. I'll have to do some testing.. and to do that.. I need to mount it on the mill..
[19:04:19] <CaptHindsight> or just try it
[19:04:33] <CaptHindsight> you'll see if it's going to work
[19:04:45] <archivist> and then like me you give up using cheap sh.. and realise you need expensive
[19:04:52] <CaptHindsight> heh
[19:05:16] <CaptHindsight> shhsh you have to learn somehow
[19:05:23] <Connor> I have a more expensive camera I could use.. but, wanted lower end because I wanted lower bandwidth
[19:05:49] <Connor> I have a 720P Microsoft Live Camera.
[19:06:02] <Connor> but, this other one is tiny.
[19:06:36] <archivist> what resolution, one thou, ten or barn door
[19:06:38] <CaptHindsight> I remember when MIT had their yearly engineering contests, early on everybody was an expert, near the deadline the students became very teachable
[19:06:56] <Connor> I would like to get .0005 out o fit.
[19:07:14] <Connor> out OF IT
[19:07:42] <Connor> I'll see about mounting on the machine and making some reference marks and see how good I can get.
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[19:08:33] <CaptHindsight> 720 x 0.0005" = 0.36" field, if that lens could resolve that small
[19:09:09] <Connor> 720 is the MS version..
[19:09:12] <CaptHindsight> and that's at 0.0005" per pixel
[19:09:14] <Connor> and that was 720P
[19:09:30] <Connor> this other one is a 1.3Mp camera..
[19:09:41] <Connor> with up to 640 x 480 I think
[19:10:09] <CaptHindsight> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?Adding_Digital_Zoom_To_Camview-Emc
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[19:10:41] <CaptHindsight> http://blog.f1oat.org/tag/hd5000/
[19:12:59] <CaptHindsight> you're shooting for 12.5um, 125-250um is more realistic with that lens
[19:13:58] Jeebiss_ is now known as Jeebiss
[19:14:30] <archivist> I used the camera from a microscope kit and added my own holder and ex TV lens
[19:14:53] <CaptHindsight> "The optical resolution of the webcam at this distance is about 0.1mm per point. I have tried few pointings and achieved an accuracy better than 0.05mm. Surprisingly, that is better than pixel resolution. I think that is possible because we can see when the hole stands between 2 pixels."
[19:15:16] <Connor> OKay, forget the HD Live camera.. that's the backup camera for something else..
[19:15:24] <Connor> let me find a link to other camera.
[19:15:25] <Connor> brb
[19:15:49] <XXCoder1> 1 mm = 1,000 um ?
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[19:16:45] <Connor> http://www.ebay.com/itm/USB-30-0M-6-LED-Webcam-Camera-With-Mic-Web-Cam-for-Desktop-PC-Laptop-Notebook-v-/221297266507?ssPageName=ADME:L:OC:US:3160
[19:19:06] <CaptHindsight> XXCoder1: yes
[19:19:11] <XXCoder1> thanks
[19:19:31] <CaptHindsight> 0.001" = 25.4um
[19:19:34] <Connor> Hmm.. 300K resolution...
[19:19:38] <Connor> I thought it was 1.3MP
[19:19:41] <Connor> not .3 MP
[19:20:03] <jdh> 1.3M interoplated pixels
[19:20:40] <Connor> Okay.. So, what Can I expect to get out of that as far as resolution in .0001 " ?
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[19:22:53] <archivist> add a better lens
[19:23:46] <IchGuckLive> im off bye
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[19:23:54] <CaptHindsight> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Edmund-Optics-HP-TML-4-0X-Telecentric-Lens-Assembly-LEC-58432-/330939693992?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4d0d8afba8
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[19:27:31] <CaptHindsight> LifeCam HD-5000 $49.95 and just follow their guide http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?Adding_Digital_Zoom_To_Camview-Emc
[19:29:26] <Swapper_> do i have to set the table size so that linuxcnc knows the max travel ?
[19:29:37] <Swapper_> now it "moves" 8mm max
[19:29:48] <archivist> it is sensible to set the travel limits
[19:30:09] <Swapper_> im only dryrunning the motors, but i get extremly slow rotational speeds
[19:30:16] <archivist> the default in metric is silly
[19:30:35] <Swapper_> whats the value called?
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[19:31:08] <Swapper_> max_limit= ?
[19:31:20] <archivist> depends where you are changing it
[19:31:29] <Swapper_> the inifile
[19:33:16] <Swapper_> how do i calculate the encoder_scale ?
[19:33:24] <archivist> http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/devel/html/config/ini_config.html#_axis__lt_num_gt_section_a_id_sub_axis_section_a
[19:34:43] <Swapper_> ty
[19:36:33] <CaptHindsight> who carries those 4-pin XLR type Neutrik connectors at a good price?
[19:36:59] <GuShH_> china does!
[19:37:08] <GuShH_> but they're neuchink
[19:37:15] <CaptHindsight> lol
[19:38:55] <CaptHindsight> http://www.seismicaudiospeakers.com/XLR-Cable-Connectors-s/372.htm#
[19:40:06] <CaptHindsight> http://www.mouser.com/Connectors/Audio-Video-Connectors/XLR-Connectors/_/N-778czZscv7?P=1z0wxp8&Ns=Pricing|0
[19:40:07] <jdh> are those good prices?
[19:40:31] <CaptHindsight> about the same as Mouser in low quan
[19:41:30] <jdh> do you see 4pin panel mount?
[19:42:04] <CaptHindsight> http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/REAN-Neutrik/RT4MPR/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMv0W4pxf2HiV09DDig7boOLaCCNIf9ZXY0%3d
[19:42:20] <CaptHindsight> http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Neutrik/NC4MAV/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMv0W4pxf2HiV9y0EyfHsAgR7pvnemqmqdE%3d
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[19:42:29] <jdh> I meant the other place.
[19:42:54] <jdh> I have a bunch of small almost similar connectors for my mill, but soldering them is a PitA
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[19:44:25] <archivist> poor connectors were never designed for amps
[19:45:21] <theorbtwo> archivist: I wouldn't neccessarly go that far -- a speaker line can have several amps going through it.
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[19:45:56] <archivist> they are usually used for balanced signal
[19:46:54] <humble_sea_bass> http://www.ebay.com/itm/2X-4Pin-Male-Female-Panel-Chassis-Connector-Kit-C146-/280762097083?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item415eb99dbb
[19:47:01] <archivist> I dont recall seeing them used on speakers
[19:47:16] <theorbtwo> archivist: Pretty sure I have.
[19:47:23] <humble_sea_bass> jdh: I bough a ton of these from this guy. took 2 weeks to get to ny
[19:47:39] <CaptHindsight> Rated current per contact < 5 A , so not for big motors
[19:48:13] <jdh> that looks like what I have. Might be bigger though
[19:48:17] <CaptHindsight> >5K mating cycles
[19:48:37] <jdh> my solder cups are all facing outward though
[19:49:08] <humble_sea_bass> what are you using them for?
[19:49:17] <jdh> stepper power
[19:49:30] <humble_sea_bass> little baby motors?
[19:49:43] <jdh> drives are 5A I think
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[19:52:55] <humble_sea_bass> you might want something beefier
[19:53:53] <jdh> they might be 6amp. I have space and would prefer working with something not micro-
[19:58:21] <CaptHindsight> spring arrived here today
[19:58:47] <GuShH_> doing, doing, doing
[19:59:25] <CaptHindsight> there's green stuff under the snow it appears
[19:59:35] <humble_sea_bass> not here. I ate lunch at the park, it was a regrettable decision
[19:59:49] <GuShH_> were you mistaken for a hobo again?
[20:00:06] <humble_sea_bass> *again*
[20:00:40] <humble_sea_bass> can't a man sleep on a bench covered in newspaper and not be judged?
[20:00:56] <CaptHindsight> you guys get cold again next week
[20:01:05] <CaptHindsight> i was going to come back out
[20:01:12] <GuShH_> I think it was the peas can and the little fire that made them think you were a hobo.
[20:01:57] <CaptHindsight> don't you need a stick with a bag tied on the end of it to be official?
[20:02:11] <GuShH_> Nah
[20:02:20] <humble_sea_bass> trash can fires are highly regulated by the fire department and environmental protectiong. old ny is gone
[20:02:24] <GuShH_> That's how you carry your steppers.
[20:03:46] <CaptHindsight> don't you need a permit now to burn down an old building?
[20:06:03] <tjtr33> look at cooperindustries cam lock for high current connectors ( welding supply ) i use 'em for edm generators
[20:07:51] <humble_sea_bass> you can't do nothing without getting hassled for a permit
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[20:10:24] <GuShH_> anyone into walking dead?
[20:11:10] <jdh> every morning
[20:11:12] <humble_sea_bass> i used to kinda like it, but the show just like the comic got old
[20:11:39] <GuShH_> I had a question about the side show, talking dead...
[20:14:56] <humble_sea_bass> those AMC after show things are overwhelmin
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[20:18:52] <CaptHindsight> humble_sea_bass: I miss the old lower east side, bowrey etc. I didn't even recognize much of it last trip
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[20:20:12] <humble_sea_bass> heh, some developers last week bought the salvation army soup kitchen's building down in the bowery
[20:20:38] <humble_sea_bass> they are going to demo it and make luxury tower or something. because fuck the homeless
[20:20:57] <CaptHindsight> yeah, they need to make more money is all
[20:21:46] <humble_sea_bass> Did you ever hear of "C-Squat" on avenue C (LES)
[20:22:28] <CaptHindsight> don't recall, C and between?
[20:22:31] <humble_sea_bass> my friend was one of the original squatters, back in the early 00's they sued the city for homestead rights and they got th e building for a dollar
[20:22:39] <CaptHindsight> nice
[20:22:58] <humble_sea_bass> C and 11th -- they used to have a mini ramp in the cellar and hold shows there
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[20:23:46] <humble_sea_bass> anyways, more unaffordability
[20:23:48] <CaptHindsight> ok not too far from the park, used to have friends on St marks and 1st
[20:24:23] <humble_sea_bass> yeah fairly close to tompkins
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[20:36:22] <GuShH_> tjtr33: is it possible to construct a simple fixed electrode edm to produce precise small diameter holes without getting fancy on rails, bearings, etc?, I designed one yesterday but I have my doubts.
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[20:38:50] <Swapper_> darn its hard to get servos working...
[20:39:30] <GuShH_> it's not!
[20:39:39] <GuShH_> unless you meant servo motor
[20:39:58] <Swapper_> servo motor
[20:40:14] <GuShH_> then more or less yes
[20:40:16] <Swapper_> for some reason i only get .7 volts out
[20:40:27] <Swapper_> and if i tweak it all runs away
[20:40:47] <Swapper_> at higher speeds it looks like it stops counting encoder pulses
[20:40:57] <GuShH_> odd
[20:41:02] <GuShH_> some issue with grounding potential?
[20:41:12] <Swapper_> dont think so
[20:41:30] <Swapper_> but the tune parameters is confusing to me
[20:41:52] <Swapper_> max_output= 10
[20:41:59] <Swapper_> output_scale=-1
[20:42:08] <Swapper_> output_min_limit=-5000
[20:42:19] <Swapper_> output_max_limit=5000
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[20:42:31] <Swapper_> encoder scale 9830.4
[20:43:16] <Swapper_> and i have 16384 line encoder with 1:3 transmission and 5mm pitch screws
[20:44:14] <Swapper_> i get that to 16384*3 = 49152 / 5 = 39321.6
[20:44:29] <Swapper_> ops wrong = 9830.4
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[20:46:06] <GuShH_> you lost me at "parameters"
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[20:46:58] <Swapper_> been at this for 3 days now :)
[20:46:58] <tjtr33> GuShH_, it has to move along a single line ( no lateral motion, where no means 1um or less else you disturb the process ).
[20:46:59] <tjtr33> it has to maintain correct 'gap' ( look up control theory of gap controllers, linuxcnc in not a gap controller )
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[20:47:48] <tjtr33> the position is controlled by the process, so the 'in position on time' parqadigm wont wont
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[20:48:03] <tjtr33> paradigm
[20:49:08] <tjtr33> to make round holes without soindle, i recommend tungsten carbide electrodes ( wires )
[20:49:15] <tjtr33> spindle ( damn )
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[21:10:00] <Swapper_> PCW: Hi, i have some dificulty getting a servo to run, the servo runs away when i go over a cirtain velocity on the jog
[21:10:32] <Swapper_> is there any setting i need to consider if i have 16384 line encoders?
[21:10:58] <Swapper_> or is it all up to get the tuning right?
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[21:15:50] <PCW> I would first verify that the encoder count correctly
[21:15:51] <PCW> are you sure you mean 16384 line? (that would be 65536 count/turn)
[21:16:31] <PCW> if you have 16384 counts/turn thats a 4096 line encoder
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[21:23:16] <Swapper_> its a absolute encoder on a yaskawa drive
[21:23:47] <Swapper_> it says P/r 16384 in the driver
[21:24:26] <Swapper_> is it 16384 pulses per rev then ?
[21:24:56] <Swapper_> PCW: the servodrive can read the encoder since it can tune the drive and control it in step/dir
[21:25:16] <Swapper_> but i have no means to see if linuxcnc drops counts at higher vel.
[21:25:43] <Swapper_> its starts to runout on me when i go over a cirtain speed
[21:25:44] <PCW> not clear... encoders are specified in lines or Pulses/rotation but a 4096 pulse/r encoder has 16384 counts/turn
[21:26:44] <PCW> so how many encoder counts do you get for one turn?
[21:26:58] <PCW> (on linuxCNC)
[21:27:03] <Swapper_> hard to count :)
[21:27:07] <Swapper_> humz
[21:28:01] <Swapper_> i can set a PG Divider in the driver now it will output 16384 P/r
[21:28:05] <Swapper_> if that says anyting
[21:29:02] <PCW> I would not trust anything unless you can rotate the motor 1 turn while looking at the encoder.rawcounts pin
[21:29:50] <Swapper_> ok, let me try. Have to disable the driver to be able to turn it
[21:30:00] <PCW> you should be able to disable the drive and rotate the shaft by hand
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[21:30:23] <Swapper_> will do, will the raw counter reset if i unplug the 7i77?
[21:30:30] <Swapper_> its no 0 now
[21:30:40] <PCW> no
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[21:32:00] <PCW> you may have to subtract the starting number (or restart linuxcnc) to get a 0 rawcounts number
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[21:36:03] <Swapper_> PCW: i get arround 6639 in rawcounters 1 turn
[21:36:11] <Swapper_> 66639 !
[21:36:36] <Swapper_> and 16384 * 4 = 65536
[21:36:40] <Swapper_> seems right?
[21:36:46] <Swapper_> its counting all the flanks ?
[21:37:37] <PCW> Yeah so thats going to exceed the 7I77s encoder max rate with filter on at around 900 RPM
[21:38:22] <Swapper_> i get 750
[21:38:49] <PCW> yeah the quadrature is probably not perfect
[21:39:13] <Swapper_> whats the best way arround that then ?
[21:39:25] <Swapper_> is there any point in counting on all the flanks ?
[21:39:38] <Swapper_> or should i reduce the number of output pulses from the drive?
[21:39:55] <PCW> lower the emulated encoder resolution and turn off the encoder filter
[21:40:22] <Swapper_> what is the encoder filter?
[21:40:25] <PCW> (first in the drive and second in the hal file)
[21:41:17] <Swapper_> ahh nvm i found it
[21:41:59] <Swapper_> would it be better to run my 6i25 in native 6i25 mode ?
[21:42:13] <PCW> What is the max RPM of the motor?
[21:42:46] <Swapper_> will probably not run faster than 3000rpm
[21:42:52] <Swapper_> but max is 5000rpm
[21:43:01] <PCW> (no real advantage of real 6I25 mode)
[21:43:32] <PCW> just slightly faster access (PCI part of bus runs at 66 instead of 33)
[21:43:47] <Swapper_> yea figured it could have somting to do with this but guess not :)
[21:44:42] <Swapper_> do you think i should lower the drive first and then the filter or both ?
[21:44:54] <PCW> so probably setting the P/R to 4096 (16383 c/t) and turning off the filter should get you to 6000 RPM or so
[21:45:07] <Swapper_> ok will try that !
[21:45:12] <Swapper_> Thank you verymuch!
[21:45:18] <PCW> NP
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[21:48:53] <PCW> Its probably possible to run at that high (65536 counts/turn) a count rate at 5000 RPM by
[21:48:55] <PCW> tweaking some encoder regs but at 16384 counts/rev thats 0.1 u per count so more than that is
[21:48:56] <PCW> likely in the land of diminishing returns
[21:50:08] <Swapper_> hehe
[21:50:25] <Swapper_> but i guess i get deasent accuracy anyhow :)
[21:50:35] <Swapper_> its in the 0.000 region
[21:50:39] <Swapper_> mm
[21:51:58] <PCW> accuracy will depend more on your mechanics
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[21:54:29] <PCW> that is how much frictional force is needed to cause a non-sensed 0.1 u deflection in your axis (or even 1 u)
[21:54:32] <Swapper_> ya will be far out from those figures
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[22:02:50] <Deejay> gn8
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