#linuxcnc | Logs for 2014-03-06

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[00:21:03] <somenewguy_batu> haha
[00:22:06] <JT-Shop> say goodnight Gracie
[00:22:39] <JT-Shop> your evening song http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CCsQyCkwAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DjYyBZE0kBtE%26feature%3Dkp&ei=v78XU8zdDtTgoASmhYD4BQ&usg=AFQjCNGXBqiwI-ow-_okCVl7rXC_Zz6xsg&sig2=rL2ooUItIMsVCHORFqq6dg&bvm=bv.62577051,d.cGU
[00:22:47] <JT-Shop> WTF was that
[00:22:55] <kengu> google url
[00:23:08] <JT-Shop> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jYyBZE0kBtE&feature=kp
[00:23:16] <JT-Shop> sorry about that
[00:23:21] <kengu> i don't like the way google gives the "links"
[00:23:30] <kengu> but I did get used to it
[00:23:33] <JT-Shop> nor do I now
[00:23:47] <kengu> it has been for years..
[00:24:00] <humble_sea_bass> if you block cookies
[00:24:40] <kengu> if I block cookies my realtime kernel is still not working on the s*itty laptop
[00:24:49] <JT-Shop> or perhaps some cheap day return http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wQzUCO7rG0M&feature=kp
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[00:25:47] <JT-Shop> I'm calling it a night guys
[00:25:53] <JT-Shop> see you in the morning
[00:25:55] <somenewguy_batu> either I misplaced a zero when I first did my latency test, or man thing got bad
[00:25:56] <kengu> good plan
[00:26:01] <humble_sea_bass> kengu: i know you probably spent the money on this thing, but those integrated mini atx boards are cheap chearp cheap
[00:26:03] <somenewguy_batu> night jt!
[00:26:56] <kengu> humble_sea_bass: i think I will get some more desktopish one from the junk pile, some p4 something
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[00:49:18] HH is now known as NoMotorKnowledge
[00:49:46] <NoMotorKnowledge> hello everyone, may I ask questions about general linear motion control?
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[00:51:16] <CaptHindsight> yeah, just ask away
[00:51:58] <CaptHindsight> depending on the time of day, mood and sobriety you might also get some answers :)
[00:52:12] <NoMotorKnowledge> I am wondering if a stepper motor with an encoder can be equivalent to a servo motor in terms of accuracy / repeatability for linear motion
[00:52:26] <NoMotorKnowledge> servo motor with an encoder, that is
[00:52:52] <CaptHindsight> a servo is not limited by steps
[00:53:08] <CaptHindsight> a stepper will always be
[00:53:55] <NoMotorKnowledge> am I correct in my understanding that a stepper without an encoder might not move the commanded number of steps?
[00:53:56] <CaptHindsight> but you can have a stepper system that has steps smaller than your required resolution
[00:54:02] <zeeshan> NoMotorKnowledge: nah
[00:54:05] <NoMotorKnowledge> to have true positional knowledge, an encoder is necessary to close the loop?
[00:54:12] <zeeshan> only if you overload the motor it might skip steps.
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[00:54:58] <zeeshan> an encoder on a stepper motor kind of seems reduntant
[00:55:23] <zeeshan> like you command 5 steps, but the stepper only steps 4
[00:55:30] <zeeshan> you've lost one step
[00:55:46] <CaptHindsight> but without an encoder you truly don't know the actual position
[00:55:59] <zeeshan> how do you know if that step was lost
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[00:56:03] <zeeshan> clockwise or counter clockwise
[00:56:13] <zeeshan> shrug, thats my take on it
[00:56:20] <NoMotorKnowledge> Are there stepper or servo motor drivers that support redundant encoders?
[00:56:44] <CaptHindsight> people use steppers with encoders and Lnuxcnc
[00:57:05] <zeeshan> hm that gives me an idea.
[00:57:12] <zeeshan> i should mount a trigger wheel at the end of my ball screw
[00:57:24] <zeeshan> and use an optical encoder to get the position |:D
[00:57:30] <zeeshan> might be cheap to do.
[00:57:54] <timholum> How do I tell what to put for my parrallel port address? I tryed the default 0x378 and it did not work?
[00:58:10] <zeeshan> lspci -v
[00:58:13] <zeeshan> and find the address
[00:58:29] <NoMotorKnowledge> linuxcnc supports single axis control of servo or steppers?
[00:58:40] <zeeshan> NoMotorKnowledge: both.
[00:58:41] <timholum> cat /proc/ioports |grep parport shows this
[00:58:43] <timholum> 0378-037a : parport0
[00:58:44] <timholum> 0778-077a : parport0
[00:58:45] <timholum> but lspci -v does not show anything
[00:58:54] <NoMotorKnowledge> can I configure it to use redundant encoders?
[00:59:01] <NoMotorKnowledge> say, one rotational and one linear?
[00:59:11] <zeeshan> you can do unlimited things in it
[00:59:37] <NoMotorKnowledge> Is the difference between ball screws and lead screws limited to their efficiency?
[00:59:56] <zeeshan> efficiency?
[01:00:04] <NoMotorKnowledge> losses due to friction?
[01:00:11] <zeeshan> timholum: maybe its 0778? :)
[01:00:18] <zeeshan> NoMotorKnowledge: i don't think thats a big deal
[01:00:35] <zeeshan> yea ball screws have a lower coefficient of friction
[01:00:43] <zeeshan> but that is a bad thing sometimes.
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[01:00:56] <zeeshan> main reason you want ball screws is because there is no backlash
[01:01:02] <timholum> zeeshan: ill give that a shot,
[01:01:11] <zeeshan> timholum: how are you testing?
[01:01:15] <NoMotorKnowledge> so if I want my nut to be able to be pushed back if power is cut, I want a lead screw?
[01:01:30] <zeeshan> measure the voltage at a pin on your parallel port
[01:01:32] <zeeshan> to make sure its working
[01:01:48] <zeeshan> NoMotorKnowledge: yea
[01:01:59] <zeeshan> this is why cnc machines with ball screws on the z axis always have a brake
[01:02:11] <zeeshan> cause the mass of the z-axis is enough to make the ball screw turn.
[01:03:07] <zeeshan> http://www.roymech.co.uk/Useful_Tables/Cams_Springs/Power_Screws_1.html
[01:03:07] <NoMotorKnowledge> If I use a stepper motor with a step of 1.8 degrees with a lead screw with a threading of 2 mm, is my accuracy 1.8/360*2 mm?
[01:03:25] <zeeshan> you mean a pitch of 2mm?
[01:03:34] <NoMotorKnowledge> yes, sorry
[01:03:58] <NoMotorKnowledge> assuming I have an encoder
[01:04:24] <zeeshan> i dont know what an encoder has to do with that
[01:04:41] <zeeshan> but your resolution is (1.8/360)*2
[01:05:00] <NoMotorKnowledge> I'm assuming the encoder would prevent any loss of steps
[01:05:17] <zeeshan> so you can move anything attached to the screw linearly by 0.01mm increments
[01:05:22] <zeeshan> NoMotorKnowledge: no
[01:05:25] <zeeshan> encoder does not do that
[01:05:57] <zeeshan> the reason you lose steps is because you're overloading the stepper motor
[01:06:10] <NoMotorKnowledge> what about play due to gearing?
[01:06:14] <zeeshan> ie demanding 500oz-in of torque out of a 200oz-in stepper
[01:06:22] <zeeshan> thats the only way you lose steps
[01:06:29] <zeeshan> (at l;east that i know of)
[01:06:34] <NoMotorKnowledge> ok
[01:06:41] <zeeshan> you don't use gearing
[01:06:44] <zeeshan> you use timing belts
[01:06:55] <NoMotorKnowledge> I'm not designing a CNC machine, btw
[01:07:23] <NoMotorKnowledge> I'm trying to build a needle driver for a medical robot prototype
[01:07:29] <zeeshan> you need to read about backlash
[01:07:35] <zeeshan> cause i don't think you understand what it means
[01:07:38] <NoMotorKnowledge> ok
[01:07:50] <zeeshan> it's the single most important thing for lead screws.
[01:08:14] <zeeshan> theres a ton of videos on youtube about backlash
[01:08:39] <zeeshan> i'd explain it by words
[01:08:49] <zeeshan> but it take me a while
[01:08:50] <NoMotorKnowledge> no no, references to youtube are sufficient
[01:08:59] <zeeshan> theres 2min videos on backlash
[01:08:59] <NoMotorKnowledge> I'm greatly appreciative for your help
[01:09:11] <zeeshan> np! don't kill someone with the robot
[01:09:11] <zeeshan> haha
[01:09:38] <NoMotorKnowledge> I must admit that I am a computer programmer tackling a mechanical system for the first time
[01:10:08] <zeeshan> i hope this is for a hobby
[01:10:27] <zeeshan> or a concept
[01:10:33] <PCW> NoMotorKnowledge: there are hybrid step drives with encoders they are in fact full servo systems and cannot lose steps
[01:10:56] <NoMotorKnowledge> it is for a concept, I wouldn't attempt to build something on my own for clinical use ;)
[01:11:03] <zeeshan> pcw but they're not driving stepper motors
[01:11:13] <PCW> Yes they are
[01:11:16] <zeeshan> link
[01:11:35] <NoMotorKnowledge> (whats the difference between driving and non driving stepper motors?)
[01:11:48] <PCW> a step motor can be used a a 50 pole 2 phase AC servo
[01:12:20] <Valen> whats your robot do?
[01:12:23] <zeeshan> interesting!
[01:12:26] <zeeshan> i didnt not know that
[01:12:41] <NoMotorKnowledge> nothing yet, hope to get it to drive a needle for needle-based medical procedures
[01:12:42] <zeeshan> pcw whats the advantage of running that over a regular servo?
[01:12:54] <NoMotorKnowledge> on mannequins
[01:13:08] <PCW> the normal step motor advantages (high torque at low speed)
[01:13:15] <Valen> (I wasn't aware mannequins regularly needed medical procedures)
[01:13:23] <PCW> (because its a 50 pole motor)
[01:13:35] <zeeshan> and on top of that you can do PID control
[01:13:42] <zeeshan> right?
[01:13:59] <Valen> if you want it to be able to be manually driven backwards you would want a ballscrew, leadscrews have too much friction to reverse drive as a rule
[01:14:10] <Valen> a high lead screw at that
[01:14:25] <NoMotorKnowledge> (https://www.bluephantom.com/uploads/Image/CAEBP.jpg this kind of mannequin for medical training)
[01:14:52] <Valen> I'm guessing you are wanting to do something like simulate the forces on a needle as its driven in?
[01:14:53] <zeeshan> pcw what do i google for
[01:14:57] <zeeshan> "50 pole 2 phase ac servo"
[01:15:00] <zeeshan> when i searc hthat
[01:15:02] <zeeshan> i dont find anything :P
[01:15:12] <PetefromTn_> hybrid stepper...
[01:15:19] <PetefromTn_> They have been around for awhile now..
[01:15:26] <zeeshan> my stepper driver is a hybrid stepper driver
[01:15:40] <PetefromTn_> They even have some chinese ones for relatively cheap.
[01:15:47] <zeeshan> from automation technologies
[01:16:12] <PCW> http://www.leadshine.com/UploadFile/Down/HBS86d.pdf is one
[01:16:18] <zeeshan> http://www.automationtechnologiesinc.com/products-page/digital-stepper-motor-driver/digital-stepper-driver-kl-8070d-heat-sink-is-included
[01:16:20] <zeeshan> thats the one i have
[01:16:55] <NoMotorKnowledge> Are these a hybrid stepper motor, therefore stepper + encoder? http://www.haydonkerk.com/LinearActuatorProducts/StepperMotorLinearActuators/LinearActuatorsHybrid/Size11DSLinearActuator/tabid/76/Default.aspx
[01:16:59] <PCW> since its still a a step motor you lose torque fast at higher speeds and they are not very efficient
[01:17:18] <PCW> (so not available in large size)
[01:17:30] <zeeshan> hm
[01:17:34] <zeeshan> maybe ill grab those drives for the mill
[01:17:51] <zeeshan> how do you tune the porotional gain integral gain and derivative gain?
[01:18:06] <humble_sea_bass> pee eye dee
[01:18:07] <zeeshan> all i see is a buncha encoder wires going to the driver
[01:18:16] <PCW> but it has some advantages over normal BLDC servo systems (it can idle dead quiet by going into step motor mode)
[01:18:17] <Valen> NoMotorKnowledge: how close was my guess?
[01:18:39] <PCW> tuing is built in and automatic I think
[01:19:05] <zeeshan> i wonder what control procedure it uses
[01:19:05] <NoMotorKnowledge> @Valen, sorry missed your question. Yes, that is in fact a large part of what I'm trying to do
[01:19:14] <zeeshan> prolly some 3 degree of freedom model
[01:19:28] <Valen> I would perhaps suggest then a linear motor might be the way to go
[01:19:33] <zeeshan> i dont understand how the tuning can be automatic?
[01:19:42] <Valen> you aren't doing bone punctures or anything insane like that?
[01:19:47] <NoMotorKnowledge> not at all
[01:19:49] <zeeshan> if you connect your screw through a coupler and it's driving a lead screw
[01:19:55] <zeeshan> and thats got a 400lb table on it
[01:20:03] <zeeshan> the PID parameters will change significantly
[01:20:15] <NoMotorKnowledge> Isn't a stepper/servo connected to a lead screw a linear system?
[01:20:26] <Valen> because you are going to want to provide a force more than a position and most motor + screw things are going to be at least a little tricky to do what you are after
[01:20:34] <Valen> its a linear system, but not a linear motor
[01:20:47] <Valen> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linear_motor
[01:20:59] <zeeshan> i recently did a lab on an optical telescope auto tracker
[01:21:16] <zeeshan> the transfer function for it was nasty
[01:21:23] <NoMotorKnowledge> interesting
[01:21:37] <NoMotorKnowledge> I did a literature review of existing needle drivers, none of them used this concept.
[01:21:39] <zeeshan> clearly im missing something here.. if you could do it automatically whats the point of control theory?
[01:21:41] <NoMotorKnowledge> 8 of them used lead screws though
[01:22:04] <Valen> the big thing is there's minimal inertia in them
[01:22:17] <Valen> or there can be lol
[01:26:11] <Valen> if you did go with a screw system you would want to use ballscrews, with the minimum diameter you can, combine that with a decent encoder and a good strain gauge and you can create a "force feedback" system
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[01:26:55] <CaptHindsight> how about a stepper driven system with lots of momentum where the load will cause extra steps vs lost steps?
[01:27:44] <CaptHindsight> say the motors were undersized and the motors can't brake properly
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[01:28:20] <PCW> With hybrid drives this is fine
[01:29:18] <Valen> hybrid drive is a servo system, it just happens to be using stepper motors
[01:29:32] <PCW> Exactly
[01:30:31] <NoMotorKnowledge> is 1000 counts per revolution a decent encoder?
[01:30:38] <NoMotorKnowledge> *rotary optical encoder
[01:30:52] <CaptHindsight> I know I was bringing up another scenario where steppers might be off from their intended position
[01:31:50] <PCW> all the same parts (almost exactly like a BLDC drive except no Clarke/inv Clarke)
[01:31:51] <CaptHindsight> a properly sized stepper system should rarely miss or gain steps
[01:32:28] <zeeshan> ^truth
[01:32:29] <zeeshan> :P
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[01:32:41] <NoMotorKnowledge> is properly sized meaning matching torque requirements?
[01:32:57] <CaptHindsight> with some extra margin
[01:33:09] <zeeshan> it means don't demand 500 oz-in from a 200oz-in stepper
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[01:33:41] <NoMotorKnowledge> but if I think I need 2.8 mNm and the motor is rated for nominal torque of 4.8 mNm, I'm ok?
[01:33:44] <PCW> or 30 oz inch from a 200 oz in stepper at 1000RPM
[01:34:57] <CaptHindsight> or 5000 rpm from any stepper :)
[01:35:28] <CaptHindsight> i never looked, are there any high speed steppers with some torque left?
[01:36:15] <Valen> CaptHindsight: a *properly sized* stepper system should *never* miss or gain step
[01:36:28] <zeeshan> it basically translates to
[01:36:31] <zeeshan> get a big ass stepper
[01:36:33] <zeeshan> :-)
[01:36:48] <Valen> I translate it to, "steppers suck, use something else ;-P"
[01:36:59] <zeeshan> meh
[01:37:08] <zeeshan> =P
[01:37:18] <NoMotorKnowledge> as for sizing a screw, the pitch determines my resolution but the diameter determines the torque?
[01:37:33] <Valen> dia is mostly how strong the thing is
[01:37:39] <NoMotorKnowledge> ok
[01:37:45] <Valen> IE how many KG of axial force you can put on it
[01:38:01] <NoMotorKnowledge> the needle itself is 2 mm and hollow
[01:38:04] <Valen> also you need to look at how fast you can spin it without it resonating and flopping about the place
[01:38:16] <NoMotorKnowledge> it will bend before the screw ever will
[01:38:49] <Valen> you do need to keep in mind that most people here are thinking about machines with 20mm diam screws and 300W drives for a "small" machine ;->
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[01:39:01] <zeeshan> lol thats true
[01:39:12] <Valen> shoving a few hundred KG worth of metal around at speed
[01:39:37] <Valen> you are playing in a different pool lol, same swimming complex but a different pool ;->
[01:39:39] <NoMotorKnowledge> ok I'm looking at 4.5 W motors with a 6 mm screw
[01:40:43] <NoMotorKnowledge> is it a very bad idea to hook a servo motor rated for 13600 RPM up to a lead screw without a gear?
[01:40:49] <CaptHindsight> I made some positioners last week with 1/4-20 threaded rod and nema17's
[01:41:07] <Valen> not nescicarily
[01:41:28] <zeeshan> anyone here have a 4 axis
[01:41:33] <zeeshan> that can build something for me? :)
[01:41:36] <Valen> it might impose some requirements on your control system
[01:41:36] <zeeshan> $$
[01:41:55] <uw> what do you need?
[01:41:56] <NoMotorKnowledge> control system would be a 'stepper drive'?
[01:42:16] <NoMotorKnowledge> I see teh word drive and think motor :-/
[01:42:33] <NoMotorKnowledge> is drive synonymous with controller?
[01:43:01] <uw> ...
[01:43:14] <uw> it might be time to start reading some docs
[01:43:16] <zeeshan> uw talking to me?
[01:43:27] <zeeshan> about the 4 axis machinining need
[01:43:32] <uw> well...at first
[01:43:38] <uw> but the second stuff is for the other guy
[01:43:41] <Valen> if you are trying to output forces I wouldn't be using steppers really
[01:44:13] <uw> whta do you need for 4axis stuff I might be able to do it
[01:44:19] <zeeshan> uw
[01:44:21] <uw> i have a small machine
[01:44:23] <zeeshan> what cad software do you use
[01:44:27] <zeeshan> this is pretty big requirement
[01:44:28] <zeeshan> =/
[01:44:39] <zeeshan> well big and small is all relative to who you're talking to
[01:44:42] <Valen> i mean it could work but steppers control position so you need to then have a tight control loop measuring the force and working out what to do with the stepper
[01:44:46] <uw> i use autocad then for tool path i use various becuase i have yet to find a decent one yet
[01:44:55] <zeeshan> if i sent you a step file
[01:44:59] <zeeshan> would you be able to view it?
[01:45:09] <uw> maybe in linuxcnc?
[01:45:13] <zeeshan> i don't have a 2d official drawing released yet
[01:45:18] <Valen> at a first approximation for a DC motor the current flowing through it is proportional to the torque output
[01:45:29] <uw> what are the 3 extreme dimentions of what you need?
[01:45:39] <uw> x y z
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[01:45:53] <Valen> so you could have a simple control system that just put a set current through the motor when the thing was in a certain position
[01:46:47] <NoMotorKnowledge> I'm more concerned with placement than force measurement. Primary goal is building a prototype driver, secondary is force profiling
[01:46:52] <zeeshan> its 7.19 inches long
[01:47:09] <zeeshan> and 0.75" diameter
[01:47:19] <Valen> you are calling this a driver, is it pushing the needle or is it being pushed by a needle?
[01:47:26] <NoMotorKnowledge> it pushes the needle
[01:47:31] <zeeshan> has to be made out of mild steel
[01:47:54] <Valen> what country are you in btw?\
[01:47:59] <NoMotorKnowledge> Canada
[01:48:36] <Valen> :-< bit of a hike for me to make stuff for you I guess ;-P
[01:48:48] <NoMotorKnowledge> I must do this on my own ;)
[01:49:04] <NoMotorKnowledge> I just had an expensive dc motor/spindle/encoder system break on me
[01:49:11] <NoMotorKnowledge> and I need to re-design using less expensive components
[01:49:13] <Valen> how did it break?
[01:49:20] <NoMotorKnowledge> static discharge killed the encoder
[01:49:26] <zeeshan> http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p252/turbozee84/valve_zps4e4c6689.png
[01:49:29] <zeeshan> thats the part i need machined
[01:49:33] <Valen> $40 should net you a new encoder give or take
[01:49:44] <Valen> assuming its a standardish one
[01:49:46] <NoMotorKnowledge> this encoder is built onto the motor
[01:49:50] <zeeshan> it needs to be done on the 4 axis ;p
[01:49:52] <zeeshan> to save time
[01:50:02] <zeeshan> buncha different profiles at different angles.
[01:50:20] <uw> shift drum or hydro component?
[01:50:29] <uw> what legnth and material?
[01:50:42] <zeeshan> 7.19" long by 0.75" diameter
[01:50:45] <zeeshan> mild steel
[01:50:52] <zeeshan> its a steam injection valve
[01:51:06] <uw> ah i dont think i can do that long
[01:51:12] <zeeshan> damn it :p
[01:51:28] <uw> i have a 4th access but only way to support it is on one side right now
[01:51:32] <uw> so i can only do short things
[01:51:33] <NoMotorKnowledge> Maxon RE16 brushless DC servo motor with attached encoder. The company told me if the encoder is shot, the unit is shot. Its a 5mmx5mm IC on the back of the motor. Beyond my skills to troubleshoot
[01:51:42] <zeeshan> yea this definitely needs a tail stock suporting it
[01:51:57] <Valen> maxon make good stuff as a rule
[01:52:00] <Valen> spendy though
[01:52:13] <NoMotorKnowledge> yeah, $750 for the spindle/gear/motor/encoder unit
[01:52:25] <Valen> you cant just get the motor?
[01:52:36] <NoMotorKnowledge> I ordered a replacement motor/encoder
[01:52:51] <NoMotorKnowledge> it is 'incompatible with the GP16S' gear/spindle on my broken unit
[01:53:04] <NoMotorKnowledge> they told me after I sent them a photo of their standard output shaft
[01:54:03] <NoMotorKnowledge> so I have a new motor/encoder with an output shaft that I believe requires bonding to any lead screw or gear system
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[01:55:37] <NoMotorKnowledge> anybody familiar with interpreting dimension drawings and letting me know how I could connect a lead screw to a servo motor based on the output shaft of the motor? http://www.maxonmotor.com/medias/sys_master/8807876362270/MASSBILD-RE16-118725.png
[01:57:42] <cradek> is that a 16mm motor?
[01:58:05] <cradek> I assume they are mm...
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[01:58:21] <CaptHindsight> that's a really small motor
[01:58:28] <cradek> you usually don't connect a leadscrew to a tiny motor like that, you probably need to use pulleys and a toothed belt
[01:58:49] <NoMotorKnowledge> yes, 16 mm motor
[01:58:52] <CaptHindsight> what's the diameter of the lead screw?
[01:58:55] <NoMotorKnowledge> 6 mm
[01:59:08] <NoMotorKnowledge> I need 2.8 mNm of torque
[02:01:32] <CaptHindsight> http://www.rw-america.com/products/miniature_couplings/fk1/
[02:01:41] <NoMotorKnowledge> so 0.024 inch pounds
[02:02:37] <CaptHindsight> or use two pulleys and a belt
[02:03:58] <cradek> does the motor have bearings meant to handle thrust?
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[02:06:28] <NoMotorKnowledge> I'm not sure how to answer that, cradek: it has sleeve bearings
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[02:08:52] <NoMotorKnowledge> Thank you so much, CaptHindsight
[02:09:09] <CaptHindsight> whats the maxon part number?
[02:09:30] <NoMotorKnowledge> 118730 is the motor
[02:11:07] <CaptHindsight> i can't load the spec, my browser must be blocking something
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[02:12:04] <CaptHindsight> there we go
[02:12:08] <NoMotorKnowledge> what spec do you need?
[02:12:21] <CaptHindsight> http://www.maxonmotor.com/maxon/view/product/motor/dcmotor/re/re16/118730
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[02:13:36] <CaptHindsight> Max. axial load (dynamic) 0.8 N
[02:13:50] <CaptHindsight> Max. radial loading 1.5 N, 5 mm from flange
[02:15:09] <CaptHindsight> NoMotorKnowledge: what are you moving? whats on the leadscrew?
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[02:15:16] <NoMotorKnowledge> a needle
[02:15:23] <NoMotorKnowledge> into soft, synthetic tissue
[02:15:44] <CaptHindsight> so the only real load might be the coupling
[02:16:16] <NoMotorKnowledge> Id definitely want the motor to fail to drive a needle through bone
[02:16:23] <CaptHindsight> synthetic tissue? terminator type? which series?
[02:16:37] <CaptHindsight> :)
[02:16:39] <Valen> CaptHindsight: T1000
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[02:17:43] <NoMotorKnowledge> It would be nice to be able to pierce eyes, however
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[02:18:23] <CaptHindsight> how is the needle mounted? will it be a radial or axial load?
[02:18:59] <CaptHindsight> how many operations do you expect over the lifetime of the warranty?
[02:19:18] <NoMotorKnowledge> its just a prototype so a few thousand operations max
[02:19:24] <NoMotorKnowledge> needle is mounted like ...
[02:20:08] <NoMotorKnowledge> the needle shaft is parallel to the lead screw
[02:20:43] <NoMotorKnowledge> and the lead screw nut is attached to a linear rail to keep things aligned
[02:20:50] <Valen> so is the issue the new motor has a different gear on the end of it?
[02:21:20] <CaptHindsight> 1.5mm motor shaft and 5mm lead screw
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[02:21:40] <NoMotorKnowledge> the issue is the new motor has no gear on it
[02:21:56] <NoMotorKnowledge> and I planned on reusing the GP16S 19:1 gear and spindle/nut that my old motor had attached
[02:22:04] <NoMotorKnowledge> maxon part # 424233
[02:22:23] <Valen> you cant pull the gear off the old motor and put it onto the new one?
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[02:24:05] <NoMotorKnowledge> I was told that the output shaft of the new motor (as shown on the specifications page http://www.maxonmotor.com/maxon/view/product/motor/dcmotor/re/re16/118730 )
[02:24:10] <NoMotorKnowledge> is incompatible with the GP16S
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[02:25:25] <NoMotorKnowledge> http://www.maxonmotor.com/maxon/view/product/gear/spindle/gp16s/424233
[02:25:46] <CaptHindsight> Valen: how was your summer, this winter we traded conditions and temps with siberia
[02:26:00] <Valen> mild really
[02:26:06] <Valen> only used the AC 2 or 3 nights
[02:26:09] <Valen> dryish
[02:26:44] <NoMotorKnowledge> I understand that steppers have great torque at low RPM
[02:26:50] <Valen> NoMotorKnowledge: i think it depends on the shaft of your old motor
[02:27:15] <CaptHindsight> it's pretty much been below 0C since the end of November often with highs of only -5 or -10C
[02:27:25] <NoMotorKnowledge> if I want to order a custom lead screw to attach to this motor and don't attach a gear, will I get decent torque at like 2000 RPM from a DC servo motor?
[02:27:36] <Valen> CaptHindsight: its ok, theres no such thing as climate change ;-P
[02:28:10] <NoMotorKnowledge> I mean 630 RPM
[02:29:19] <Valen> that just needs maths to work out
[02:29:20] <CaptHindsight> motors that size are usually used with gearing to get any torque
[02:29:39] <NoMotorKnowledge> I've been assuming that a servo motor can give its rated torque at up to its nominal speed
[02:29:43] <NoMotorKnowledge> is that true?
[02:30:10] <CaptHindsight> yesh, stepper will drop off torque rapidly at high speeds
[02:30:28] <NoMotorKnowledge> this is a servo motor
[02:30:30] <Valen> voltage goes up a fair bit to achieve that
[02:30:31] <CaptHindsight> what kind of screw would you order? 80 tpi or similar?
[02:30:43] <NoMotorKnowledge> I wanted something similar to teh http://www.maxonmotor.com/maxon/view/product/gear/spindle/gp16s/424233
[02:30:46] <Valen> NoMotorKnowledge: do you have a picture of the old motor, and the new motor?
[02:30:54] <NoMotorKnowledge> 6 mm diameter, 1 mm pitch
[02:31:07] <NoMotorKnowledge> Valen: I have no picture of the old motor's output shaft
[02:31:19] <Valen> you don't have the old motor any more?
[02:31:39] <NoMotorKnowledge> I do
[02:31:56] <NoMotorKnowledge> but I don't have the tools in my lab to remove the spindle/gear and don't want to remove it unless I'm sure I can use it
[02:32:19] <Valen> you should be able to tell without removing the gear
[02:32:29] <Valen> just measure the shaft
[02:32:41] <Valen> if the new shaft is bigger then drill out the gear
[02:32:51] <Valen> if its smaller then make a sleeve up
[02:33:11] <NoMotorKnowledge> from my understanding, the current motor has a threaded output shaft
[02:33:19] <NoMotorKnowledge> my current motor has a thread-less output shaft
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[02:33:37] <NoMotorKnowledge> my replacement motor, rather, has a thread-less shaft
[02:33:56] <Valen> it'd be unusual to have a thread on there
[02:34:42] <Valen> also thats what loctite retention compound is for lol
[02:34:52] <Valen> (if its a neat fit)
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[02:52:04] <CaptHindsight> NoMotorKnowledge: have you seen the small micropositioners out of China? They are similar to the mechanisms inside dvd drives
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[02:52:17] <NoMotorKnowledge> no, I have not
[02:52:19] <NoMotorKnowledge> any links?
[02:56:43] <CaptHindsight> http://www.ebay.com/itm/2pcs-Miniature-two-phase-stepper-motor-15MM-Stepper-motor-with-wire-/181286507043?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2a35849223
[02:57:03] <humble_sea_bass> baby
[02:57:10] <CaptHindsight> http://www.ebay.com/itm/10pcs-New-original-Miniature-stepper-motor-with-screw-slider-bracket-/181293915758?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2a35f59e6e
[02:58:38] <NoMotorKnowledge> very interesting, thank you for sharing the link
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[03:29:28] <CaptHindsight> yes
[03:36:35] <NoMotorKnowledge> goodnight everyone, thanks for your help
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[03:56:38] <somenewguy_batu> can anyone help me out setting up a sim config in arch?
[03:57:13] <somenewguy_batu> or is it really that hard...
[03:57:15] <humble_sea_bass> 31 psi in your front tires, 32 for the rear
[03:57:32] <humble_sea_bass> and a roll bar of like 3.25
[03:58:01] <humble_sea_bass> camber is to taste usually
[04:01:42] <somenewguy_batu> ...
[04:01:57] <somenewguy_batu> I'm only running 6 psi in the back
[04:02:14] <somenewguy_batu> 4 in the front, but I don't see what that has to do w/ anything lol
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[04:05:44] <humble_sea_bass> sim racing humor. sory
[04:07:53] <somenewguy> here I am thinking this is a civilized channel
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[07:40:02] <s1dev> how are small dovetails with fillets on the corners machined?
[07:40:35] <s1dev> small as in 4mm at the top, 16mm at the base, and a 2mm fillet'
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[09:06:21] <syyl-> 4mm wide on top?
[09:06:26] <syyl-> 16mm on bottom?
[09:06:49] <syyl-> sounds like shaperwork ;)
[09:06:54] <syyl-> or wire edm
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[09:40:59] <CHNCguy> morning guys
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[11:16:14] <jthornton> morning
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[11:24:37] <Deejay> moin
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[12:57:55] <PetefromTn_> Morning to my fellow CNC junkies!! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jIgRTPglVaI#t=42
[12:59:05] <archivist_herron> CNC junkies...I still use files and punches and other hand tools
[13:02:42] <PetefromTn_> then you need to step into the light of the new technology my friend ;)
[13:04:15] <archivist_herron> can be fun making something that looks hand made on the cnc
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[13:08:36] <PetefromTn_> I like the CNC for making things that would be near impossible to make by hand LOL...
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[13:19:08] <_methods> i like cnc cause i'm too lazy to stand there and crank those damn handles