#linuxcnc | Logs for 2014-03-05

[00:00:16] <JT-Shop> only 2 are 0
[00:00:24] <CHNCguy> # PID tuning params
[00:00:24] <CHNCguy> DEADBAND = 0.000015
[00:00:24] <CHNCguy> P = 1.0
[00:00:24] <CHNCguy> I = 0.000
[00:00:24] <CHNCguy> D = 0.000
[00:00:24] <CHNCguy> FF0 = 0.000
[00:00:25] <CHNCguy> FF1 = 0.000
[00:00:25] <CHNCguy> FF2 = 0.0
[00:00:26] <CHNCguy> BIAS = 0.000
[00:00:30] <JT-Shop> EADBAND = 0.00005
[00:00:30] <JT-Shop> P = 28
[00:00:30] <JT-Shop> I = 2.5
[00:00:30] <JT-Shop> D = 0.05
[00:00:30] <JT-Shop> FF0 = 0.0
[00:00:31] <JT-Shop> FF1 = 0.135
[00:00:33] <JT-Shop> FF2 = 0.0005
[00:00:35] <JT-Shop> BIAS = 0.000
[00:00:58] <JT-Shop> # PID tuning params
[00:00:58] <JT-Shop> DEADBAND = 0.000015
[00:00:58] <JT-Shop> P = 40
[00:00:58] <JT-Shop> I = 2
[00:00:58] <JT-Shop> D = 0.01
[00:00:59] <JT-Shop> FF0 = 0.01
[00:01:00] <JT-Shop> FF1 = 0.26
[00:01:02] <JT-Shop> FF2 = 0.0005
[00:01:04] <JT-Shop> BIAS = 0.000
[00:01:08] <JT-Shop> http://gnipsel.com/files/chnc/configuration/hardinge.ini
[00:01:32] <CHNCguy> ohh i got it in your tutorial
[00:01:36] <JT-Shop> you don't want to use my numbers anyway
[00:01:54] <JT-Shop> you want to start from P = 1 and go from there
[00:02:40] <JT-Shop> you got a link to that file?
[00:02:44] <JT-Shop> I don't see it
[00:03:43] <CHNCguy> ya 1 sec
[00:03:58] <CHNCguy> http://gnipsel.com/linuxcnc/configs/7i77.html
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[00:06:02] <CHNCguy> gn8 yall
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[00:06:08] <JT-Shop> yea, they will all be 0 to start with except P = 1
[00:15:48] <RyanS> fiddling with solidcam trail.. I know next to nothing about cam but the interface seems a little clunky
[00:16:38] <RyanS> *trial
[00:17:05] <JT-Shop> wanna feel clunky try bob crap
[00:17:29] <JT-Shop> oh bob cam... I keep spelling it right
[00:19:23] <RyanS> ok because I had a look at a tormach 1100 & the guy was using bob-cad , "not because it's good but because it's cheap"
[00:21:38] <RyanS> is CAM integrated into Solidworks et cetera less of a hassle than exporting STL into a separate CAM app?
[00:22:08] <JT-Shop> when I got my first cnc machine it came with a copy of bob crap
[00:22:18] <JT-Shop> I finally learned to hate it
[00:22:47] <RyanS> I could understand it if you run a business, and you need to modify the model and don't want to redo the CAM programing
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[00:23:04] <JT-Shop> are you trying to do 3-d stuff?
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[00:23:50] <RyanS> I'm just trying to learn CAM in general before I even think about buying a CNC machine
[00:24:42] <JT-Shop> best to understand G code first, that way you will know when your CAM program is feeding you garbage
[00:25:22] <RyanS> yeh, so you would start with simple parts that don't have a huge amount of G code
[00:25:46] <JT-Shop> yea
[00:26:10] <JT-Shop> you would be amazed at how much you can do with gedit
[00:26:23] <JT-Shop> subroutines and a little thought
[00:26:44] <RyanS> Actually the CAM software should run a simulation of hand written code...
[00:28:15] <JT-Shop> I have OneCNC and it is a mid level CAM program and I don't trust the built in simulation
[00:29:47] <RyanS> Is there any simulations that will actually show the material being removed? I can only get solidcam to show a really rudimentary simulation
[00:30:13] <JT-Shop> I've not seen any good ones
[00:30:24] * JT-Shop retires to the house now
[00:30:41] <ZinovaS_> openscam shows that...
[00:30:43] <ZinovaS_> kinda...
[00:31:18] <PetefromTn_> CNCsimulatorpro does that reasonably well..
[00:32:32] <RyanS> That really surprises me. Surely the simulation is something you want to use to confirm your program is running well
[00:33:32] <PetefromTn_> actually many of the nicer cam programs do that natively.
[00:34:36] <RyanS> yeah , I probably should just do the tutorial first.. :)
[00:38:52] <RyanS> could one run a machine using hrrmhrrm (tickle in my throat) 'trial' CAM software
[00:40:34] <PetefromTn_> sure...
[00:40:46] <PetefromTn_> I am using CamBam trial right now...
[00:41:03] <PetefromTn_> Before that i used Sheetcam trial and then bought Sheetcam.
[00:41:35] <PetefromTn_> CamBam allows you something like 40 saves before you are done.
[00:41:57] <PetefromTn_> Some programs will limit the number of G=code lines output in trial mode.
[00:41:58] <RyanS> ok , so they assume that you don't just want to run the trial onsceen
[00:42:44] <PetefromTn_> No apparently most will allow you to do the toolpath work and simulate all you want but limit code output.
[00:43:32] <RyanS> I actually used cncsimulator.. I kept breaking things lol
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[00:44:37] <PetefromTn_> yeah it is tedious to get it setup but it works okay. You have to run it like a real CNC machine loading tools and offsets before it will run.
[00:44:51] <PetefromTn_> In that it is a relatively accurate simulation program.
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[00:47:48] <Connor_iPad> os1r1s: You had a picture of a touch probe the other day. Was that yours? If so, you make it or buy it?
[00:48:49] <RyanS> "Solidcam is the de-facto standard" that's reassuring. Rephrased it could to say "Solidcam is not the standard"
[00:49:13] <PetefromTn_> sorry no experience with solidcam..
[00:49:49] <RyanS> probably costsa fortune
[00:53:26] <PetefromTn_> Is this for hobby or pro use?
[00:53:33] <zeeshan> anyone know how people typically mount their pci cards when you mount a motherboard in a control box?
[00:54:45] <RyanS> hobby, so I don't mind using 'trials'
[00:55:41] <RyanS> Something like Alibre is all I could afford for CAD
[00:56:07] <PetefromTn_> Well don't know your budget but for HOBBY stuff and including 3d machining it would be hard to beat CamBam... It is still in beta tho and has some quirks.
[00:56:35] <RyanS> I just don't know whether to go separate Cam software or integrated into CAD..
[00:56:44] <PetefromTn_> Zeeshan. I just fabbed up a bracket to hold it vertical to keep it from flexing.
[00:56:52] <zeeshan> pics?
[00:57:01] <PetefromTn_> hang on let me look.
[00:57:09] <zeeshan> =]
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[00:58:46] <RyanS> do you find yourself having to reprogram CAM , after having modified the part if it's a separate application? Generally I find myself sticking with the original CAD design and just going ahead and making the part
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[00:59:56] <RyanS> That is exporting the CAD part as STL
[01:00:26] <zeeshan> wtf http://hackedgadgets.com/2007/11/26/fan-case-mod/
[01:04:48] <RyanS> I want to play with CATIA and design a jumbo jet just because
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[01:08:23] <PetefromTn_> http://imagebin.org/297270
[01:09:24] <PetefromTn_> RyanS Honestly I am not that good with 3d parts and I am just learning to use and work with them.
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[01:09:46] <PetefromTn_> So I cannot comment intelligently about the way they work in CamBam.
[01:10:31] <PetefromTn_> I can say that I often have to go back and forth to Cad to redo the drawing to arrive at something I am comfortable with to machine and I would expect the same if not more from 3d files.
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[01:12:10] <zeeshan> pete
[01:12:11] <zeeshan> i like
[01:12:49] <zeeshan> thank u
[01:14:12] <PetefromTn_> Sure man for what it is worth.
[01:14:37] <RyanS> yeah I'm not convinced/it's as easy as making changes in parametric CAD and simply have the integrated CAM modify tool paths on the fly. At least I can't see it working with drastic changes to the model
[01:15:11] <RyanS> That would surely require different tools and different techniques
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[01:18:24] <PetefromTn_> RyanS I use sheetcam for simple 2.5d stuff and it has a utility that when you change something in the cad drawing that is open in sheetcam it will request of you to update to the latest drawing. Once it does that it will try to apply the same toolpaths to it but it gives you warnings if it will not work.
[01:18:41] <PetefromTn_> Not sure if that is possible or not in some of the more complex 3d programs. I am sure on some level it is.
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[02:22:06] <timholum> Hello, are there any node.js library's for hal I see a bunch for python but that's all
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[02:37:16] <humble_sea_bass> RyanS: if you modify your cad and add new geometry the cam has a tendency of crapping itself
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[02:53:37] <skunkworks> timholum: are you in WI?
[02:56:03] <zeeshan> so i got a bigger enclosure
[02:56:07] <zeeshan> instead of using a computer case
[02:56:08] <zeeshan> http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p252/turbozee84/514D9E3D-9390-4BC6-A8CF-E263AE940FA2_zpsn0iulll7.jpg
[02:56:17] <zeeshan> trying to figure out the cleanest way to mount stuff
[02:56:24] <zeeshan> and the easiest to work on
[02:56:56] <jdh> got a mounting plate?
[02:57:10] <zeeshan> nah
[02:57:21] <zeeshan> i usually use bolts from the other side :p
[02:57:26] <zeeshan> that act like studs
[02:57:53] <PetefromTn_> One nice thing about the Cincinatti is that when I gutted the front pendant housing I was able to fit basically everything for the new control inside it easily.
[02:58:54] <zeeshan> the only thing negative about this is
[02:59:01] <zeeshan> i gotta make some 80mm holes for fans
[02:59:06] <zeeshan> and make a crapload of bracket s:P
[02:59:26] <jdh> does it have holes/studs for a plate?
[02:59:45] <zeeshan> no its a junction box type of deal
[03:00:30] <zeeshan> whats kind of annoying is the way pci cards are held
[03:00:31] <zeeshan> onto the motherboard
[03:00:33] <skunkworks> timholum: I don't know if this helps.. http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?Rockhopper_Web_Server
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[03:01:17] <zeeshan> this might sound like a silly question
[03:01:29] <zeeshan> but have any of you guys ever removed extra wires coming from your computer power supply
[03:01:42] <zeeshan> is it a pain or a simple desoldering type of job
[03:01:48] <zeeshan> maybe ill just open it up =/
[03:03:17] <Connor> Clip them on the outside flush and heat shrink leaving little stubbies.
[03:04:13] <Connor> zeeshan: and I would caution placing the VFD inside the same enclosure as the BOB and PC.
[03:04:24] <Connor> They can generate a heck of allot of EMF.
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[03:05:46] <zeeshan> connor
[03:05:48] <zeeshan> if its a problem
[03:05:53] <zeeshan> ill just faraday cage it
[03:06:20] <jdh> easier to avoid a problem than remediate.
[03:06:29] <zeeshan> the whole point of getting a big enclosure
[03:06:33] <zeeshan> was i wanted everything in 1 box
[03:06:41] <zeeshan> and i've seen enough motor control centers to know its not a big problem
[03:06:59] <zeeshan> worst comes to worst you need a snubber filter
[03:08:49] <zeeshan> http://www.autocareforum.com/images/carwashpixs/ny/VFD-PLC%20Control%20Center.jpg
[03:08:56] <zeeshan> shit thats got 6 vfds in a row
[03:08:56] <zeeshan> lol
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[03:09:39] <zeeshan> http://img.tradeindia.com/fp/1/001/106/485.jpg
[03:09:42] <zeeshan> one right next to a plc
[03:10:24] <Connor_iPad> A pic isn't a PC
[03:10:43] <zeeshan> we'll see how it works out :P
[03:10:50] <zeeshan> they're going to be on opposite ends!
[03:14:34] <humble_sea_bass> i once had a project with a bunch of vfd motors for pumps
[03:15:18] <zeeshan> damn it
[03:15:24] <zeeshan> theres a shitload of wires
[03:15:25] <humble_sea_bass> it was this fancy retirement joint, the contractors didn't filter any of the electrical lines
[03:15:31] <zeeshan> inside the power supply picking up power
[03:15:56] <zeeshan> the way im fusing the power supplies is
[03:16:01] <PetefromTn_> Well managed to get the damn .dXF export and import to work in my windoze version of Freecad.
[03:16:07] <humble_sea_bass> we were getting calls that FM/AM radio sounded insane
[03:16:11] <PetefromTn_> Just had to revert back to the old version LOL..
[03:16:12] <zeeshan> just a single fuse on L1 for each power supply 10A fuse
[03:16:30] <humble_sea_bass> Pete, can you have them installed concurrently?
[03:18:19] <PetefromTn_> yeah that is what I am doing. Sux because the new version is really pretty nice and I am getting the hang of it now.
[03:18:50] <PetefromTn_> I just need to do a lot of .dxf export to setup machining ops for the simpler 2d stuff but I really want to draw my parts in 3d.
[03:19:08] <PetefromTn_> Now that I understand it a bit better it sure is nice to do it that way.
[03:19:25] <os1r1s> Connor: Which probe?
[03:19:38] <Connor_iPad> os1r1s: Not sure. Was black.
[03:19:42] <zeeshan> Connor:
[03:19:58] <zeeshan> got an elegant solution to bracket down 4 pci cards
[03:20:05] <zeeshan> with the most minimal amount of work ;p
[03:20:11] <os1r1s> Connor: Ahh, ok. I bought it, but made the probe bob box
[03:20:42] <Connor_iPad> How much and where from ?
[03:21:11] <os1r1s> I think 200
[03:21:42] <os1r1s> Connor: http://www.performancemotion.com/products.shtml
[03:21:44] <humble_sea_bass> PetefromTn_: I really suggest you leave FreeCAD and do solidworks for parametric
[03:22:04] <Connor_iPad> Okay. Yea.
[03:22:27] <Connor_iPad> What's the diff between active and passive. I saw you say something about it.
[03:22:28] <os1r1s> Connor_iPad: It works pretty well
[03:23:45] <PetefromTn_> humble_sea_bass Okay man sure ya gonna buy it for me LOL...
[03:24:02] <PetefromTn_> Freecad is parametric..
[03:24:31] <humble_sea_bass> I'm just saying that it is a halfassed work in progress
[03:24:56] <PetefromTn_> I honestly don't think that is fair to say that.
[03:24:59] <humble_sea_bass> I think I have the 2009 0r 2010 academic license
[03:25:15] <PetefromTn_> I have used solidworks and alibre and it is easier than either to learn on.
[03:25:49] <humble_sea_bass> I think solidworks has made a good faith effort to flood the market with tutorials
[03:25:52] <PetefromTn_> It has some quirks to be sure but it is in beta still and a lONG ways from a completed program. Yet I still was able to draw several cool complex features in it.
[03:25:58] <humble_sea_bass> which is how Pro/E died
[03:28:35] <RyanS> Pro/e is just called something else
[03:28:43] <RyanS> umm
[03:29:08] <RyanS> Creo
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[03:40:10] <humble_sea_bass> I dont like chocolate cookies
[03:46:11] <PetefromTn_> LOVE chocolate cookies.
[03:46:20] <PetefromTn_> just not oreos..LOL
[03:46:56] <PetefromTn_> Connor That probe how do you center it? It does not appear to have any adjustment screws in it?
[03:47:59] <skunkworks> you can get cheaper ones on ebay...
[03:48:06] <skunkworks> *less expensive...
[03:48:11] <Connor> PetefromTn_: Not sure..
[03:48:31] <Connor> I like the fact that the tip is screw on.. unlike the one from CNC4PC
[03:48:51] <skunkworks> http://www.ebay.com/itm/CNC-Touch-Probe-for-Mach3-LinuxCNC-10-foot-cable-length-/171256905835?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item27dfb5006b
[03:48:57] <skunkworks> standard tips.
[03:49:07] <skunkworks> (and adjustment screws for centering)
[03:50:41] <skunkworks> but I like commercial ones (yes it is a knock off) :) http://electronicsam.com/images/KandT/probe/DSCF1507%5B1%5D.jpg
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[03:51:42] <PetefromTn_> yeah it sure would be nice to have a renishaw even an older one....
[03:51:50] <PetefromTn_> what kind is that?
[03:52:50] <skunkworks> trying to think of the name..
[03:53:49] <Connor> that one on ebay.. 1/4 shank.. Yuck.
[03:53:58] <Connor> 3/8 or 3/4 would
[03:54:08] <Connor> if 3/4 I could use with TTS without a tool holder..
[03:54:30] <jdh> http://www.ebay.com/itm/321339410537
[03:54:43] <jdh> Not sure I'd trust a tool to that
[03:54:46] <Connor> That's just a touch plate..
[03:55:13] <jdh> yeah
[03:55:26] <jdh> just amusingly cheap.
[03:58:10] <PetefromTn_> what a piece of crap.
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[04:41:08] <CaptHindsight> I think it's more for mounting on the ends of 10 foot poles, for safety
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[08:50:23] <RyanS> http://www.openmind-tech.com/en/products/hypercad_cad_software/hypercad.html what's the point of adding a third p application to the CAD-CAM pipeline
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[09:05:45] <Deejay> moin
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[10:12:36] <kengu> ideas of minimum required ram to run linuxcnc?
[10:12:38] <kengu> "To allow for both EMC and its host Ubuntu Linux installation to coexist comfortably, you should have at least 256MB of RAM, though 512MB is preferable. [The remainder of this paragraph is current as of late-May 2008]"
[10:21:07] <archivist> 512 at least these days, 256 slows the system due to swapping
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[10:23:29] <kengu> yeah. i was a bit surprised to find a laptop with only 256 from the junkpile
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[10:25:36] <archivist> if there is not enough ram something like axis will be partially swapped out making keyboard response slow
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[11:46:02] <CHNCguy> morning yall
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[12:05:52] <Jymmm> Time changes Sunday, ahead one hour.
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[12:15:38] <CHNCguy> ahh man...less sleep
[12:16:14] <kengu> hum.. my linuxcnclive-usb does boot into some "tiny micro core linux"
[12:16:25] <CHNCguy> Hey guys can anyone give me some info on how to do spindle orientation on a vmc? it had it before, just trying to use it with linuxcnc>
[12:18:57] <jthornton> you lost it?
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[12:19:23] <CHNCguy> lost it?
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[12:19:33] <CHNCguy> morning jt ;)
[12:19:33] <jthornton> orient
[12:19:38] <jthornton> morning
[12:19:44] <CHNCguy> well not really, just trying to set it up
[12:19:48] <CHNCguy> now sure where to start
[12:19:58] <archivist> you said "it had it before," therefore you lost it :)
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[12:20:09] <CHNCguy> well it had it with the old control LOL
[12:20:14] <jthornton> does your spindle support orient? what kind of drive?
[12:20:38] <CHNCguy> fanuc
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[12:21:21] <jthornton> is your spindle a servo motor or a vfd?
[12:21:51] <CHNCguy> im sorry i think its a yaskawa
[12:21:58] <CHNCguy> confirmed yaskawa
[12:22:43] <CHNCguy> servo
[12:23:40] <jthornton> you should be able to use the orient component in master
[12:24:25] <CHNCguy> that just uses the encoder feeback right? The encoder from the spindle?
[12:24:44] <jthornton> I think so
[12:25:03] <jthornton> look in the online docs for master
[12:25:40] <CHNCguy> ok thanks for the help :D
[12:30:10] * CHNCguy gonna go work on the shop ;}
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[13:05:05] <PetefromTn_> Mmmmmoornin'!
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[13:18:11] <skunkworks> http://users.xplornet.com/~rwenig/Some%20of%20my%20castings/RT.jpg
[13:22:22] <MrSunshine_> oh nice! =)
[13:22:27] <MrSunshine_> made in cast aluminium ? =)
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[13:23:19] <archivist> I want to see more pics before I comment
[13:24:24] <PetefromTn_> that looks kinda funky. Why is it so narrow? And I presume there will be a routing surface above that leadscrew along the long axis?
[13:25:55] <archivist> he has some of the stiffness issues of the shapecrapeo
[13:26:25] <archivist> the castings are ok
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[13:32:44] <PetefromTn_> Well I was having problems with the .dxf import/export in Freecad last night.
[13:32:55] <PetefromTn_> Got pretty frustrated with trying to make it work.
[13:32:55] <skunkworks> and today it works?
[13:32:59] <PetefromTn_> Yup.
[13:33:01] <skunkworks> heh
[13:33:17] <PetefromTn_> Apparently there was some files that were omitted in the latest release under windows.
[13:33:29] <PetefromTn_> It seems developers despise windows LOL
[13:33:58] <PetefromTn_> But they showed me how to insert the files and how to create the .dxf views and it works beautiful now..
[13:34:02] <PetefromTn_> I am very pleased.
[13:34:18] <PetefromTn_> Also the newest version of freecad has a BUNCH of neat new features to it.
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[13:34:34] <PetefromTn_> I was playing with it last night and it is really getting sweet.
[13:35:01] <PetefromTn_> there is a measure feature that did not work before and now it has it's own toolbar with several options on it.
[13:35:01] <skunkworks> I really need to play with it...
[13:35:22] <PetefromTn_> You can dimension easily in 3d space and quickly remove the dims.
[13:35:26] <skunkworks> have you heard how the cam is coming?
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[13:35:57] <PetefromTn_> Also generating a blueprint is super easy now with a drawing workbencht that is much improved.
[13:36:15] <PetefromTn_> Apparently they are working on it steadily but they admit it is a ways off.
[13:36:27] <PetefromTn_> Right now I am using CamBam and it seems to do everything I need.
[13:36:45] <PetefromTn_> There are also a bunch of new plugins for cambam I downloaded and added yesterday.
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[13:37:03] <PetefromTn_> So far this combo is the best I have seen for very little money.
[13:37:33] <PetefromTn_> The guys on the Freecad forum are VERY helpful including Normandc, Danielfalk,Yorik, etc...
[13:38:45] <skunkworks> danielfalk has been on here a few times
[13:38:49] <PetefromTn_> So initially what I wanted was to be able to accept 3d files from customers, work with them, create my own 3d files, machine from 3d parts, or alternatively create 2d .dxf files from the 3d parts and be able to machine in 2.5d on those drawings and that is exactly where I am right now.
[13:39:22] <PetefromTn_> danielfalk is VERY helpful and knowledgeable about freecad.
[13:40:29] <PetefromTn_> It is quite amazing how far it has come in a short time relatively speaking. It has a ways to go but it is already a working program that is easy to use to create 3d models.
[13:40:55] <PetefromTn_> You should see some of the renderings people have done with it too. Pretty damn slick. I have not played with the rendering features yet but I plan to.
[13:43:41] <PetefromTn_> They are also working steadily on the assembly module and have shown videos of it working in branch recently. that is gonna be sweet to have.
[13:43:58] <skunkworks> The 'there isn't any good 3d cad on linux' maybe can go away
[13:44:32] <PetefromTn_> yup. Like I said it may not be solidworks but it is probably the next best thing.
[13:45:07] <PetefromTn_> I imported the .dxf files this morning I created in Freecad into Draftsight just to check them out and they dimension perfectly and look correct.
[13:45:43] <PetefromTn_> I did notice that one of my champfers I created in freecad was arc'd the wrong way in draftsight but it was easy to fix.
[13:46:59] <PetefromTn_> The more I play with it the more impressed I am with it. Keep in mind this is coming from someone who has little 3d experience but has played quite a bit with Alibre design and Solidworks when I worked in that shop for awhile.
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[14:00:13] <Lathe_newbie> hi there
[14:00:25] <PetefromTn_> hello
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[14:01:15] <Lathe_newbie> just a little question, is a motor with 16Ncm strong enough for driving a axis with a 16x4 trapezoidal spindle?
[14:01:45] <Lathe_newbie> with no gear
[14:03:39] <PetefromTn_> I guess that would depend a bunch on how much the axis weighs, the friction of the movement, the type of drive leadscrew, cable,belt etc.. too many variables to say...
[14:04:21] <PetefromTn_> when in doubt.....MORE POWER!!
[14:04:22] <Lathe_newbie> directly adapted motor to spindle, axis weight is about 3kg
[14:05:09] <PetefromTn_> don't understand that. I thought you said it was an axis not a spindle...
[14:05:49] <Lathe_newbie> spindle i mean screw
[14:07:13] <PetefromTn_> that is apparently only 22.7 oz in. Pretty lightweight motor. I don't know and honestly there are others here that are more into the small hobby type machines that might be better able to answer your question.
[14:09:08] <PetefromTn_> you might include your ballscrew pitch also so folks can help you...
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[15:59:22] <CaptHindsight> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qll4LYtealc I wonder how well it could handle cutting aluminum?
[16:00:49] <skunkworks> high speed spindle/cuts low doc - probably pretty well... looks pretty stout..
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[16:00:59] <skunkworks> except for the wrist...
[16:01:33] <archivist> I look at total arm length and thing of a spring
[16:01:38] <archivist> think
[16:01:59] <CaptHindsight> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lYDdBe6PTkI here's a bigger one milling aluminum
[16:02:56] <CaptHindsight> I never paid attention to the parts being cut. I have only used them to move things around that are not subjected to cutting forces
[16:03:32] <archivist> huge arm for such a light cut
[16:03:50] <Connor> os1r1s: Those performancemotion probes, how do you calibrate them? I don't see any set screws in the bottom or on the sides ??
[16:03:50] <CaptHindsight> yeah, it probably needs it
[16:04:58] <somenewguy> does anyone here knowof a DIY probe tipthat does not require a lathe? i have found 2 plan sets so far, but they both require a lathe
[16:05:40] <Connor> I've not seen any
[16:05:41] <archivist> you can use your mill as a lathe
[16:05:57] <Connor> http://www.pkm.org.ua/2011/07/cnc-touch-probes-review.html
[16:06:08] <Connor> check there.. has a bunch of DIY probes
[16:06:10] <archivist> just rotate your thinking
[16:07:45] <skunkworks> hey - he is the delta robot guy
[16:08:08] <somenewguy> hmmm ok, maybe I gotta find the time to fiugre out/setup my 4th axis
[16:08:24] <somenewguy> I need abigger bed lol so I don't always need to remove/setup tooling for every thingI wanna do
[16:09:26] <somenewguy> hmmm, maybe I should buy one
[16:09:41] <somenewguy> thanks for the link, gonna waste mylunch break on that
[16:11:26] <CaptHindsight> Worlds Fastest Picker Robot http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vtdtVjIsNhQ improved SCARA design
[16:12:16] <archivist> somenewguy, I do an amount of round stuff on the mill with the rotary, also means you can do stuff at one setting
[16:12:54] <archivist> but a lathe is an essential eventually :)
[16:14:14] <archivist> somenewguy, look on youtube for "turning on a mill" there are a few
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[16:16:52] <somenewguy> true, I just have finally used up all my shop space
[16:17:05] <somenewguy> although once the mill gets a full enclosure, I'll free upenough for a bench lathe
[16:17:31] <somenewguy> or if I buy a house, I stillhave a damn southbend for free thato nly needs amotor that I just need to haul home...
[16:18:56] <archivist> fetch it!
[16:19:12] <archivist> I have one in the garage too :)
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[16:22:07] <CaptHindsight> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tiQLS34A7LU here's my target speed for Linuxcnc for pick-n-place, without speeding up a video
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[16:51:18] <CaptHindsight> debian arm runs Linuxcnc now on the cubie2 with AXIS in HD
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[16:54:01] <miss0r> archivist, I just thought i'd give this intel server a try... dear god: 162106ns at servo
[16:54:29] <skunkworks> archivist, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kWBO_jlhqNg
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[17:03:45] <humble_sea_bass> HOLY JESUS]
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[17:04:56] <humble_sea_bass> is CUBIE BETTER AT REALTIME?
[17:05:05] <humble_sea_bass> wtf is with this capslock key
[17:05:16] <skunkworks> I DON"T KNOW
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[17:08:51] <CaptHindsight> humble_sea_bass: cubie2 (allwinner A20) is just lower cost, power and smaller footprint than x86
[17:10:28] <CaptHindsight> comparing new hardware to new hardware, a used $20 PC is hard to beat on price
[17:10:56] <humble_sea_bass> i have a gygabyte e350n motherboard and it performs really well after messing with the bios and doing irq tweaking, I was just wondering if the arm distros are a little more adept at real time control than the x86 crew
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[17:11:59] <CaptHindsight> I'm using the Asrock E350M1 it gets ~8uS with RTAI
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[17:13:58] <CaptHindsight> humble_sea_bass: it's a combination of several things, the cpu architecture, how they handle IRQ's, the kernel config and the firmware/bios settings etc etc
[17:14:12] <humble_sea_bass> I've never used the RTAI jam
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[17:14:45] <CaptHindsight> have you run the livecd on the e350n?
[17:15:10] <humble_sea_bass> I full on installed it from the live CD onto an SSD
[17:15:30] <CaptHindsight> the RT kernel in Linuxcnc distro up until now has been RTAI
[17:16:07] <humble_sea_bass> oh so there is nothing to do on my part
[17:16:11] <CaptHindsight> the main devs for RTAI got way behind on support for new kernels so the Linuxcnc devs started looking for other RT options...
[17:16:42] <CaptHindsight> that's why there is support now for preempt_rt and xenomai as well
[17:16:54] <CaptHindsight> humble_sea_bass: yes, you're already using it
[17:17:31] <CaptHindsight> the difference between the asrock and the gigabyte boards is that there is coreboot support for the asrock
[17:17:55] <CaptHindsight> coreboot is an open source replacement for BIOS/EFI
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[17:18:13] <CaptHindsight> so you get full access to all the config registers
[17:18:27] <CaptHindsight> so optimal tweaking and danger
[17:19:16] <humble_sea_bass> the gygabite bios has all sorts of marketing names for things, so my original tuning run was flipping things on and off and recording its impact
[17:20:45] <CaptHindsight> I'm just working on ARM SOC's with Linuxcnc for embedded low cost appliances like 3D printers
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[17:23:12] <humble_sea_bass> my wife wants me to start messing with the ARM socs for application in accessible computing like OCR/Text to speech/braille note takers etc. So far I've fiddled with the RasPi and that Beagleboard. I had not seen the Cubies before
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[17:24:12] <CaptHindsight> http://cubieboard.org/ the SOC's used from Allwinner end up being $6ea
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[17:25:29] <miss0r> Dear god - what is wrong with my equipment - another computer: 435506ns at 1ms
[17:26:15] <CaptHindsight> the current gen is 2 core ARM cortex-a7, the latest is an 8 core big-little A15+A7
[17:26:57] <IchGuckLive> miss0r: 400k is a bit high
[17:26:59] <humble_sea_bass> THE a15 is the new cpu apple is using, no
[17:27:23] <CaptHindsight> humble_sea_bass: yes, that the latest ARM for phone and tablets
[17:27:43] <miss0r> IchGuckLive, Yeah, I had 45k on the one I started with, so I decided to look at what else i had laying around. so far everything has gone from worse to horrible
[17:27:55] <IchGuckLive> miss0r: did you go throu SMI fixing
[17:28:17] <miss0r> YouSayWhatNow?
[17:28:39] <CaptHindsight> humble_sea_bass: https://store.iotllc.com/product.php?productid=17&cat=0&featured=Y it's still a bit pricey at $65ea but we can make an A80 board with FPGA for the same price
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[17:29:04] <IchGuckLive> press reset on the latency test and count seconds within 10 sec stable then jump or emediate 400k miss0r
[17:30:34] <miss0r> I can't get it to reproduce the 400k. Now It is fairly stable at 56k
[17:30:40] <miss0r> no... now it is 300k
[17:30:51] <IchGuckLive> so i guees smi
[17:30:52] <CaptHindsight> humble_sea_bass: aren't there lots of OCR text/speech/braille devices?
[17:30:59] <miss0r> But I would like to have somewhere in the range og 5k-10k
[17:31:11] <humble_sea_bass> CaptHindsight: the funny thing about trying to open source accessibility hardware is that the current retail prices for it is so high that 65 bux is a drop in the bucket. the ugliest of braille displays runs for 4500 bux
[17:31:13] <IchGuckLive> miss0r: http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?FixingSMIIssues
[17:31:51] <CaptHindsight> humble_sea_bass: have a link? I looked into this 20 years ago for a family member
[17:32:00] <miss0r> IchGuckLive: Indeed. I am going to try other computers first, and see if I can't find one on my shelf that will do the stuff without too much jitter out of the box
[17:32:17] <humble_sea_bass> there are few suppliers for piezo braille cells though, so that brings up cost,but nowhere near to justify 4500 bux
[17:32:31] <IchGuckLive> miss0r: below 100k is fine for you
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[17:32:43] <humble_sea_bass> the price is mostly a function of the fact that state agencies are the one who pay for the devices
[17:33:01] <miss0r> I have read & been told, that the faster I want to run the lower the jitter has to be - I might decide to run fast :)
[17:33:15] <CaptHindsight> humble_sea_bass: yes, making a buck off others disabilities
[17:33:34] <IchGuckLive> your mashie will not retch the 5000mm/min top level
[17:34:02] <CaptHindsight> humble_sea_bass: how many dots does a reader need and how fast do they need to update?
[17:34:03] <IchGuckLive> miss0r: then you need to spend 5 times the money on the mashine
[17:34:19] <humble_sea_bass> HIMS is a major braille display manufacturer based out of korea who makes good devices, but again, very expensive for what you're getting
[17:34:22] <humble_sea_bass> http://hims-inc.com/products/braille-sense-plus/
[17:34:26] <IchGuckLive> miss0r: the TB6560 inside your mashine will force you down to maybee 200mm/min
[17:34:38] <IchGuckLive> 2000
[17:34:52] <IchGuckLive> as the top speed
[17:34:54] <humble_sea_bass> current refreshable braille updates in fractions of a second
[17:35:06] <miss0r> TB6560?
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[17:35:21] <IchGuckLive> the driverboard inside the 3020
[17:35:39] <humble_sea_bass> 14 cell displays are good for portability, but reading is most pleasent with 32 cells and up
[17:36:04] <humble_sea_bass> but it is a matter of rythm it seems
[17:36:43] <Loetmichel> gmmm
[17:36:46] <Loetmichel> hmmm
[17:36:53] <IchGuckLive> miss0r: the 5016 will do the best job for you
[17:36:57] <Loetmichel> it seems i have more lick choosing my PCs ;-)
[17:36:58] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=12334
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[17:37:08] <IchGuckLive> miss0r: 5916 ;-)
[17:37:15] <humble_sea_bass> KGS is from japan and they provide lots of the braille cells out there http://www.kgs-america.com/company_info.html
[17:37:21] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=13089&g2_imageViewsIndex=1
[17:37:32] <CaptHindsight> humble_sea_bass: how much movement do they need? bump low/off vs bump high/on
[17:37:44] <somenewguy> if you are ever looking for a collaborator/corroborator, I have been fiddling w/ some notes on a braille printer I wanted tobuild
[17:37:51] <humble_sea_bass> like a millimeter
[17:38:35] <CaptHindsight> a miilimeter is a lot of movement for a piezo
[17:39:12] <humble_sea_bass> it is. that is why the braille cells are kind of big
[17:39:21] <humble_sea_bass> http://www.kgs-america.com/product_index.html
[17:39:27] <humble_sea_bass> that's them on the top
[17:39:33] <miss0r> IchGuckLive, alright. Can I do anything to optimize the numbers on that? (should I decide to use it? )
[17:39:42] <humble_sea_bass> and the density is a bitch
[17:39:48] <IchGuckLive> just use it
[17:40:24] <IchGuckLive> miss0r: did the mashine arrive and or the parport card
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[17:40:33] <CaptHindsight> the more info link is broken for me
[17:40:48] <humble_sea_bass> it has been broken forever
[17:41:00] <humble_sea_bass> you basically have to call them to get the info sheet
[17:41:19] <CaptHindsight> humble_sea_bass: is it a lever/cantilever design with piezo?
[17:41:42] <humble_sea_bass> correct. that is how you get the large travel
[17:41:54] <miss0r> IchGuckLive, So far just the parport card
[17:42:08] <IchGuckLive> and did you check the setup
[17:42:13] <CaptHindsight> I'm thinking LED laser and bubble
[17:42:13] <IchGuckLive> does it work
[17:42:14] <humble_sea_bass> the tech has not changed much in the past 30 years
[17:42:26] <miss0r> I haven't a clue :) didn't get to that part yet
[17:42:42] <miss0r> I am still at the skirmish phase, where hardware is schattered across the floor
[17:43:08] <humble_sea_bass> it got slightly more compact, but the final combined consumer product is the biggest problem, you get old software or hobbled operating systems
[17:43:12] <IchGuckLive> miss0r: we can try if you want next hour
[17:43:22] <IchGuckLive> just hit my nick
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[17:43:47] <CaptHindsight> humble_sea_bass: http://phys.org/news/2012-09-laser-powered-needle-pain-free.html only not for injection
[17:44:25] <humble_sea_bass> Capt, I looked into materials that expand and contract with light , the bubble idea popped into my head once, but couldnt find a meterial with enought holding power
[17:45:11] <miss0r> IchGuckLive, I am powering the computer up as we speak
[17:45:11] <CaptHindsight> humble_sea_bass: heat a fluid to boil behind a diaphragm
[17:45:15] <humble_sea_bass> or electricity, like those gel muscle materials
[17:46:00] <CaptHindsight> humble_sea_bass: yeah, I can make polymers that twist and act like muscle
[17:46:12] <humble_sea_bass> actuation time is important, so i assume there would be a point that heated fluids would stop behaving
[17:46:17] <CaptHindsight> actually ends up that twisted nylon works really well
[17:46:53] <humble_sea_bass> it is a cool application that warrants more research
[17:47:29] <humble_sea_bass> *how every presentation ends at a conference
[17:48:15] <CaptHindsight> humble_sea_bass: I've been playing with the laser bubble to replace piezo in inkjet, without heating the fluid thats injected directly
[17:48:52] <CaptHindsight> http://www.popularmechanics.com/science/health/breakthroughs/synthetic-muscle-made-of-fishing-line-is-100-times-stronger-than-the-real-thing-16514805
[17:49:12] <CaptHindsight> you'd have to heat and cool it
[17:52:10] <archivist> skunkworks, but...I do it in gcode :)
[17:52:37] <archivist> and generate
[17:52:39] <humble_sea_bass> what that looks rad
[17:52:51] <humble_sea_bass> fishing line
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[17:54:42] <CaptHindsight> humble_sea_bass: yeah, heat small coils with a laser
[17:55:46] <CaptHindsight> blend a nylon to absorb the energy from an led laser for maximum efficiency
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[17:56:13] <humble_sea_bass> is the relaxation time of the matrial substantially different than its contraction
[17:56:56] <CaptHindsight> or possibly run a thin wire inside the nylon as the heater
[17:58:12] <CaptHindsight> it all depends on how fast you heat and cool it
[17:58:54] <CaptHindsight> expansion and contraction is symmetrical vs temp
[17:59:33] <CaptHindsight> in that video example the heat gun is heating it faster than it's being cooled
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[18:00:44] <humble_sea_bass> ah, so basically find a decent spot, kind of like the linear range of a spring
[18:00:45] <CaptHindsight> forced convection vs natural convection
[18:01:39] <humble_sea_bass> lets build a protype man, break the braille cell patent monopoly
[18:01:43] <CaptHindsight> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1A2LUbJjDQ0
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[18:03:24] <CaptHindsight> does IRC count as a public enough posting to keep it from being patented?
[18:03:25] <humble_sea_bass> wow that's actuating power
[18:03:49] <CaptHindsight> put up a blog just in case
[18:04:23] <humble_sea_bass> logged
[18:04:37] <CaptHindsight> also add control over the internet, smartphone, etc etc
[18:04:38] <archivist> as we log this channel yes :)
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[18:07:15] <CaptHindsight> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tba8Nf02OSI
[18:09:05] <CaptHindsight> nylon can be electrospun in nanometer diameters
[18:09:40] <somenewguy> getting the heat out of a dense array would be tricky, but I don't recall the video mentioning a delta T needed, so it maybe be a very small amount of nrg
[18:09:59] <CaptHindsight> have to work out the numbers on the best arrangements for coils as well, but small is no problem
[18:10:33] <CaptHindsight> yeah depends on how much delta C there has to be
[18:10:47] <somenewguy> probably need peltiers to wick it out reliably to ur sink
[18:11:05] <somenewguy> YES MY HEATED BED CAN DO 130~
[18:11:29] <somenewguy> sorry,over excited, was having troulbe w/ my new upgraded bed past 100C
[18:11:32] JT-Shop_ is now known as JT-Shop
[18:11:42] <JT-Shop> dang another order today
[18:11:45] <CaptHindsight> the heatgun example shows how quickly it responds to just natural convection
[18:12:08] <somenewguy> yeah, but that is pretty ideal setup
[18:12:21] <humble_sea_bass> it is really fast. i'm going to see if I can replicate it
[18:12:23] <somenewguy> a matrix of what, 400 of those, would be a little trickeir
[18:12:45] <humble_sea_bass> make a see-saw to see how much I can magnify the movement
[18:12:55] <CaptHindsight> yes
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[18:13:59] <CaptHindsight> have to figure the temp delta vs range of travel
[18:14:26] <CaptHindsight> that will tell us how to heat and cool it in a semi-dense array
[18:15:46] <CaptHindsight> wire as a heater core inside the nylon and the coil in a fluid so heat exchange is optimal
[18:16:19] <CaptHindsight> low viscosity fluid
[18:16:33] <somenewguy> ah well, my hope (currently abandoned for lack of time) was to build a portable braile printer, pocket sized
[18:16:41] <somenewguy> so my needs are a good bit different
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[18:19:54] <pcw_home> Heres an electrically heated example: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fNS0pxnQfdY
[18:20:26] <humble_sea_bass> somenewguy: my wife and I were given a vintage braille writer for xmas. It is called the Hall Braille Writer and I'm trying to restore it. It is basically what made braille win over NY point and other tactile writing systems
[18:21:08] <CaptHindsight> convection cooled and electrically heated
[18:21:28] <humble_sea_bass> some cat from MIT was kickstarting some portable braille embosses, dunno if they ever finished it
[18:21:49] <humble_sea_bass> whaaat
[18:22:02] <humble_sea_bass> that textile example is bananas
[18:22:04] <CaptHindsight> looks like they coiled nylon around wire
[18:22:55] <CaptHindsight> lets file for patent with everyones name on it the channel :)
[18:23:23] <humble_sea_bass> by /names
[18:24:08] <somenewguy> haha
[18:24:17] <somenewguy> I think the patent office would find that kinda....
[18:24:19] <somenewguy> fishy
[18:24:27] * somenewguy dons sunglasses
[18:24:46] <humble_sea_bass> what's the csi noise
[18:24:49] <CaptHindsight> filing a provisional is what ~$50
[18:24:51] <humble_sea_bass> AAAaaaaaaaaAaaa
[18:25:32] <archivist> but having published in the irc log prior to the application....
[18:25:46] <CaptHindsight> will get ignored
[18:25:59] <CaptHindsight> it's first to file even with prior art
[18:26:14] <CaptHindsight> it's nuts
[18:26:34] <archivist> prior art is supposed to invalidate
[18:26:41] <CaptHindsight> heh
[18:26:56] <CaptHindsight> in a perfect world
[18:27:16] <somenewguy> yeah its weird like that
[18:27:21] <CaptHindsight> the way it's been working is to overlap patents
[18:27:24] <somenewguy> the us is silly about it so that doesn't help either
[18:27:26] <archivist> it is getting patents struck off :)
[18:27:58] <CaptHindsight> but with 111 names on the patent
[18:28:07] <CaptHindsight> you could make a lot of stink
[18:28:26] <CaptHindsight> it would certainly make the news
[18:28:35] <CaptHindsight> and it involves the disabled
[18:30:55] <humble_sea_bass> that would be funny
[18:31:33] <CaptHindsight> the nylon coils are pretty public by now
[18:31:55] <CaptHindsight> it's the finer details applied to the actual display that could be covered
[18:32:10] <humble_sea_bass> agreed
[18:32:55] <humble_sea_bass> i'm sure that once you dive into the nitty gritty all sorts of practical issues will pop up as with anything
[18:33:49] <humble_sea_bass> man i can't wait for the weekend now
[18:33:53] <archivist> there are plenty of impractical patents
[18:34:39] <CaptHindsight> humble_sea_bass: there's your homework, whats the CTE of the coils?
[18:35:20] <CaptHindsight> thermal transfer W/mK
[18:36:31] <PetefromTn_> Hey guys whazzup?
[18:36:41] <CaptHindsight> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nylon Thermal conductivity 0.25 W/(m·K)
[18:36:56] <archivist> time to transfer the heat due to the nylon properties limits response speed
[18:37:08] <CaptHindsight> the CTE of the nylon itself is one factor the other is the CTE of the coiled shapes
[18:37:18] <PetefromTn_> We talking Glorified Glue Guns here again?
[18:37:33] <archivist> glorified muscle
[18:37:50] <CaptHindsight> PetefromTn_: braille display based on coiled nylon muscles for actuators
[18:37:58] <PetefromTn_> You mean like AHNOLD SCHWARZENEGGER!!
[18:38:11] <CaptHindsight> get to the chopper!
[18:38:39] <PetefromTn_> what is a coiled nylon muscle?
[18:38:52] <PetefromTn_> like a nylon spring?
[18:38:56] <CaptHindsight> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fNS0pxnQfdY
[18:39:14] <CaptHindsight> you'll have to read the backlog Pete
[18:39:58] <PetefromTn_> Holy shit that is freakin' amazing...
[18:40:25] <PetefromTn_> It almost looks like it is alive..
[18:40:30] <PetefromTn_> like a real muscle.
[18:40:55] <CaptHindsight> show your kids what will running the world when they are adults
[18:40:57] <archivist> or another hammer looking for a nail
[18:41:15] <CaptHindsight> it certainly doesn't require any brains
[18:41:40] <PetefromTn_> so it is electricity generating heat buildup or are they applying heat some other way?
[18:42:04] <CaptHindsight> in that example they ran wire through the coils to heat it
[18:42:49] <CaptHindsight> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1A2LUbJjDQ0 they use a heatgun here
[18:42:51] <PetefromTn_> that is a new one on me man. I can see it would have a lot of varying uses. I wonder what the life of the material is in cycles.
[18:43:41] <CaptHindsight> that would be a factor or purity and how close to the limits the stress is placed
[18:43:53] <CaptHindsight> nylon can one long molecule
[18:43:59] <CaptHindsight> can be
[18:45:10] <PetefromTn_> I would think a web like the first video could be created rather large and used to lift some serious weight in certain applications..
[18:46:26] <PetefromTn_> Just thinking of some of the nylon 10k lb ratchet strap tie downs and the snatch straps I used in four wheeling you can see quickly the strength available in even a relatively small webbing...
[18:47:24] <PetefromTn_> Turn that into a muscle and you would be able to do some serious lifting or pulling. Interesting never seen that before.
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[18:48:52] <CaptHindsight> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nylon-eating_bacteria disposal process, one step anyway
[18:50:45] <CaptHindsight> so a robot made from nylon could catch a bug and die
[18:52:45] <archivist> machine tools catch rust and die
[18:53:12] <humble_sea_bass> dBHEH
[18:54:02] <PetefromTn_> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xMGXqT0LWUI
[18:55:56] <CaptHindsight> there are others as well but nylon is cheap and easy to find and work with
[18:56:47] <CaptHindsight> unless Jo-Ann is carrying carbon aerogels now :)
[18:57:21] <IchGuckLive> PetefromTn_: what is the weather look like we got plenty of sunshine here today
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[18:58:12] <PetefromTn_> IchGuckLive Today is actually quite comfortable in mid 50's and nice and sunny!
[19:00:18] <PetefromTn_> I wonder what the prospect are for human muscle replacement and rejection with this kind of materials. They kinda hinted at that in one or two of the videos.
[19:01:10] <CaptHindsight> 50's is that similar to a hot desert? I don't recall any temp over 30F :)
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[19:04:07] <PetefromTn_> yeah man it seems like it we have been down into the single digits an awful lot lately around here ;)
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[19:14:02] <jthornton> dang Firefox was messing up my click and ship labels... till I found the magic box
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[20:02:16] <hetii> Hi :)
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[20:05:07] <hetii> Q: I consider to order CNC 3020 that will use for making circuit PCB. As far as i see its require to have PC with true LPT port. Is it possible to use this board http://www.knjn.com/FPGA-Parallel.html then based on this project http://reprap.org/wiki/Arduino_GCode_Interpreter implement on it G code interpreter?
[20:06:39] -!- Nick___ [Nick___!d4fff7f1@gateway/web/freenode/ip.] has joined #linuxcnc
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[20:07:42] <hetii> or maybe its already some board that can act as a bridge between linuxcnc and such machine, for example via ethernet ?
[20:11:58] <Nick___> Hey guys, could you help me out with a small problem? Since I reinstalled linuxcnc, the axis surface is not showing any coordinates in the graphic window. Has anyone experienced that before? I am sure its a minor setting somewhere, but I am unable to find it
[20:13:35] <cradek> hetii: the things you are asking don't make any sense. That Pluto plugs into a parallel port; it is not a substitute for one. Linuxcnc and Arduinos don't go together really in any way.
[20:14:09] <cradek> hetii: maybe describe what you are trying to do, instead of picking out parts at random and asking if they will work together
[20:14:47] <cradek> Nick___: could you explain what you mean by surface coordinates, so I am sure what you're asking about?
[20:17:05] <Nick___> Sure, in this picture: http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/2.5/html/gui/images/example-panel-small.png for instance. Its saying ' X: 0.00000 Y Z Vel' there in white letters on the black background. This seems to be missing. I was quite fond of it since it has been a quick way of orientation for me so far :)
[20:17:26] <Nick___> In the upper left corner of the graphic output
[20:17:37] <cradek> you don't have any text there at all?
[20:17:53] <Nick___> nope, just plain background...
[20:18:03] <cradek> ooh, that's odd, and no there's not a setting for it
[20:18:13] <cradek> I guess that means it suggest a problem with your opengl setup
[20:18:34] <cradek> did you do anything special about video card drivers on this install?
[20:19:06] <cradek> what version of linuxcnc is this and what os?
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[20:19:52] <Nick___> now that you mention it, I do get some glitches on the output whenever I try to move the window. I havent installed any drivers for the video card so far.
[20:20:05] <Nick___> Thank you for the hint, I'll look into how to get a proper one
[20:20:06] <cradek> good, don't...
[20:20:16] <cradek> what kind of video card is it? might just want to swap it for a different one.
[20:20:30] <cradek> avoid the ati and nvidia special closed-source drivers
[20:21:55] <humble_sea_bass> hetii: there is an ethernet solution called smoothstepper, but it does not work with linuxcnc
[20:22:07] <humble_sea_bass> you'd have to use windows based Mach3 software
[20:23:29] <Nick___> Let me get the model name for the graphics adapter, I'm not quite familiar with that since I just bought the laptop I am using as linuxcnc host on ebay
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[20:25:05] <skunkworks> Nick___, is this for running real hardware?
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[20:26:29] <Nick___> skunkworks, yes, I'm running my cnc over a stepper card on my laptop
[20:27:08] <skunkworks> how is it with latency?
[20:27:58] <skunkworks> (laptops are notoriously bad at realtime control..)
[20:28:36] <JT-Shop> EEEK a laptop... run for your lives
[20:30:07] <PetefromTn_> LOL exactly right..
[20:30:18] <PetefromTn_> What kinda machine is it running?
[20:32:21] <Nick___> yeah, thats quite a problem indeed, read about it too late. The latency test is showing a jitter of nearly 200.000ns but the cnc control seems to work pretty well so far. So far I haven't seen much of a negative effect.
[20:32:41] <cradek> you will probably get stalling
[20:33:04] <Nick___> whats that?
[20:33:07] <Jymmm> lots of following errors
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[20:33:31] <cradek> where a stepper motor stops unexpectedly, because pulses to it were not even enough
[20:33:58] <cradek> (or too fast, but that's not the situation you have to worry about because of latency)
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[20:37:09] <CaptHindsight> http://galleryplus.ebayimg.com/ws/web/121055451974_1_0_1/1000x1000.jpg they want $166 for just that yellow UHMW valve body
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[20:37:54] <CaptHindsight> just two threaded holes and a cone inside
[20:38:31] <CaptHindsight> they said it was machined so that's why the price is where it is :)
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[20:44:21] <CaptHindsight> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=291072922333 "the machine is complete, with chiller, etc. it does NOT include the vises, tool holder and tools that you may see in the photo"
[20:45:26] <hetii> cradek: Well, i hate windows and don`t plan to use Mach 3 at all so thats why I just wondering if its possible to design a hardware that will control CNC 3020 without using LPT. I really curios why its still used for CNC machines.
[20:45:54] <skunkworks> hetii, there are pci interface cards... (Like mesa)
[20:46:05] <cradek> ok that is a question that can be answered usefully. there are lots of pci card options that work great
[20:46:42] <cradek> the lpt port is used because it is common as dirt, free, and works for realtime control
[20:46:55] <hetii> Yes i know but for eg when you have modern laptop/pc etc its still odd for me.
[20:46:57] <Loetmichel> cradek: ... more or less ;-)
[20:47:08] <cradek> it is not by any means the ONLY option, but it is the cheapest and simplest one
[20:47:12] <cradek> that is why it's still used
[20:47:39] <skunkworks> you can get a mesa 5i20 pci - pci-e which right out of the box emulates 2 printer ports. (but much more powerful)
[20:47:47] <skunkworks> sorry 5i25
[20:48:35] <hetii> skunkworks: i use such pc http://www.foxconnchannel.com/PressRoomInner.aspx?ID=en-us0000303
[20:48:40] <hetii> really no space for that :>
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[20:49:30] <Loetmichel> unknown domain
[20:49:33] <CaptHindsight> mini-pci-e
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[20:49:45] <hetii> Thats why i wondering if its possible to connect it via ethernet/wfi/usb with nc 3020
[20:50:08] <CaptHindsight> the Gigethernet driver is in the works
[20:50:37] <skunkworks> there are some ethernet solutions - but they are beta..
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[20:50:59] <CaptHindsight> PCW: what's the status of GBethernet driver and boards?
[20:51:04] <hetii> ok then where i can read about them ?
[20:51:16] <CaptHindsight> the ARM solutions are also on beta
[20:51:32] <CaptHindsight> or alpha
[20:52:03] <hetii> but they exist and i think its a good direction :)
[20:52:23] <hetii> its of course just my opinion :)
[20:52:33] <CaptHindsight> hetii: another current option is to just change the enclosure to fit a right angle PCIe riser
[20:53:21] <CaptHindsight> mini-itx cases with supplies are $40
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[20:54:33] <Nick___> Sorry for the delay, my pc had some hickups
[20:54:39] <hetii> Sure, but I prefer spend some my privet time to design a hardware, publish it as an open-source and then everybody is happy :>
[20:55:16] <CaptHindsight> hetii: what hardware are you considering designing?
[20:58:00] <hetii> That be able to control CNC machines that require LPT port, The pluto board looks very promising in this case, because in one side you have LPT port (can work as any other one) and in another side you have enough pinouts for custom machnies.
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[20:59:25] <hetii> so basically maybe its a worth to design a PCB board that will cover most scenario for cnc like 3020 or even home made.
[21:00:13] <hetii> With FPGA capabilites it should be possible.
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[21:01:07] <CaptHindsight> http://www.mesanet.com/fpgacardinfo.html like the 7i43 for instance?
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[21:02:49] <CaptHindsight> hetii: it works with an LPT port and support steppers, servos. and realtime GPIO
[21:02:56] <hetii> more like 7I80DB Ethernet Anything I/O card
[21:03:47] <Nick___> I did notice that the stepper motors sometimes make a clicking sound but the repeat accuracy has been great so far
[21:03:50] <cradek> hetii: we have a driver for the pluto, but unfortunately it's crap hardware and the driver author recommends nobody use it
[21:03:52] <CaptHindsight> hetii: what would you do differently on your board?
[21:04:37] <kengu> ok. maybe I need better (or replacement) laptop. stupid lapic
[21:05:16] <cradek> hetii: ... but the pluto plugs into a parallel port so I am still confused about why you are interested in it
[21:07:03] <Nick___> this is my video card model:
[21:07:03] <Nick___> -display UNCLAIMED description: VGA compatible controller product: SuperSavage IX/C SDR vendor: S3 Inc. physical id: 0 bus info: pci@0000:01:00.0 version: 05 width: 32 bits clock: 66MHz capabilities: pm agp agp-2.0 bus_master cap_list configuration: latency=64 maxlatency=255 mingnt=4 resources: memory:c0100000-c017ffff memory:e8000000-ebffffff(prefe
[21:07:13] <hetii> cradek: I just consider to use it as a start point for board that will control directly my cnc machine. So at the end of the they it could be connected directly into my cnc instead PC.
[21:07:24] <hetii> PC(LPT port)
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[21:09:21] <hetii> CaptHindsight: I just do a research about possibilities, for eg. i don`t see before the MESA 7I80DB board, thats why I need read more about them.
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[21:19:26] <CaptHindsight> piezo fuel injector ~$300, single valve piezo printhead $7000, somebody is getting a higher margin :)
[21:19:31] <CaptHindsight> http://www.ebay.com/itm/like/360594127884?lpid=82
[21:20:24] <CaptHindsight> http://www.nordson.com/EN-US/DIVISIONS/EFD/PRODUCTS/JET-VALVES/METERING-VALVES-PICO-VALVES/Pages/Contactless-Jet-Dispensing.aspx
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[21:41:19] <JT-Shop> just made a comment on the Spyder forum about one of my products and 2 minutes later 2 are purchased
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[21:41:57] <CHNCguy> hey JT u in buddy?
[21:42:14] <CHNCguy> JT-shop, is your discovery cat 30 or 40?
[21:43:03] <JT-Shop> neither one
[21:43:11] <CHNCguy> ntmb 30?
[21:43:17] <JT-Shop> nope
[21:43:17] <rob_h> bt
[21:43:21] <JT-Shop> yep
[21:43:23] <CHNCguy> ahh
[21:43:25] <JT-Shop> hi Rob
[21:43:28] <CHNCguy> sup rob
[21:43:42] <CHNCguy> hey rob, can you share how you got your tool changer to work on your vmc?
[21:43:45] <rob_h> not much trying to play catch up
[21:44:16] <CHNCguy> meaning, was the turret servo? Or like our chncs, with switches for each tool slot
[21:44:18] <rob_h> well i think better question is, what do you want to know?
[21:44:43] <CHNCguy> did it index with a servo?
[21:44:50] <CHNCguy> or switches?
[21:44:54] <rob_h> on VMC it has a index for pocket if you like.. so every time you go to a pocket you get a index bit
[21:45:20] <rob_h> its crude, i did not have time to add any encoder of such.. would be the better way to go so have absolute
[21:45:34] <rob_h> has a 3phase motor that spins it
[21:45:51] <JT-Shop> that the drive with orient built in?
[21:46:04] <rob_h> i did it the hard way also all in the classic ladder, now days id probly write a comp
[21:46:27] <rob_h> he is talking about the carocel how it moves
[21:46:31] <rob_h> how you count tools
[21:47:26] <rob_h> i do have to tell linuxcnc what tool it is at on turn on... as no way to save counts in classicladder
[21:48:01] <CHNCguy> do you have a copy of you files for your machine? I want to parouse through them :)
[21:48:05] <rob_h> you picked up a vmc CHNCguy
[21:48:07] <cradek> I have mine home the first time it seeks a tool
[21:48:16] <cradek> never have to think about it then
[21:48:31] <CHNCguy> ya, trying to get a milcaron 750, but want to make sure its worth it
[21:48:36] <rob_h> yea no indexed/marked tool 1 position tho
[21:48:40] <cradek> oh, ouch
[21:48:45] <cradek> I'd add one in a minute
[21:48:45] <CHNCguy> I can get it for free basically
[21:50:02] <JT-Shop> my 308 does a homing run on the carousel while the axes are homing
[21:50:25] <cradek> ah, that would work too
[21:51:01] <CHNCguy> true
[21:51:02] <cradek> I think I made mine rehome after an estop (since estop stops all the tool changer parts too)
[21:51:20] <cradek> tool changer is big scary fast-moving parts
[21:52:22] <rob_h> even more scary when u get the wrong tool apear and it trys to drill a hole with a reamer :)
[21:53:08] <CHNCguy> lol
[21:53:30] <cradek> or it's totally wrong and the tool changer arm slams it into your workpiece and gets stuck
[21:53:45] <cradek> you'd really prefer to be able to stop those motors then
[21:53:45] <rob_h> yea iv seen that too
[21:54:08] <rob_h> more so when u have a indexer on and u forget to send it out the way
[21:54:27] <cradek> yep all kinds of fail modes, haha
[21:54:43] <rob_h> i think most common error seen is people leaving vice handys on when the machine is inclosed ... just look for the dints
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[21:58:24] <Deejay> gn8
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[22:24:11] <PetefromTn_> tom_R2E3 Hey man whatsup?
[22:25:42] <tom_R2E3> hello
[22:26:07] <tom_R2E3> my touchscreen, it's driving me nuts
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[22:26:42] <PetefromTn_> at least you HAVE a touchscreen :p
[22:30:10] * JT-Shop wouldn't take that from a touch screen
[22:30:47] <tom_R2E3> soon to be broken screen
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[22:31:06] <PetefromTn_> Ya make anymore progress on your HI-tachi...
[22:31:59] * JT-Shop waits for the actual touch screen question...
[22:32:36] <tom_R2E3> ? is there another tom R2E3? I don't have a hitachi
[22:32:58] <tom_R2E3> I wasn't going to ask, just found some more information on it
[22:33:09] <tom_R2E3> but since you asked me...
[22:33:12] <PetefromTn_> Oh sorry man I thought you were the same guy with the hitachi seiki VMC he was retrofitting.
[22:33:29] <tom_R2E3> I wish I had a VMC
[22:33:33] <Nick___> seems that it is pretty much impossible to get working video drivers for my computer. Do you guys perhaps know an axis extension that gives me a toolbar that shows the current coordinates of the G53-G55 coordinate systems? Unfortunately, the current coordinates are not displayed on my laptop due to some OpenGL bug
[22:33:36] <PetefromTn_> LOL..
[22:33:58] <tom_R2E3> I have an R2E3 bridgeport
[22:34:11] <PetefromTn_> yeah so does he hence the name...
[22:34:17] <Einar_> My touch screen is actually not a *touch* screen. It's enough I wave my finger (with metal chip in it) near the screen! ;-)
[22:34:35] <PetefromTn_> I thought you were the same guy because his name included R2E3
[22:34:38] <tom_R2E3> ahh
[22:35:02] <tom_R2E3> good choice, I like him already :)
[22:35:14] <PetefromTn_> ;)
[22:35:44] <tom_R2E3> My touch screen works, as long as you only ever want to click on the top left corner
[22:36:08] <JT-Shop> what driver are you using?
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[22:36:30] <tom_R2E3> egalax Inc USB Touchcontroller
[22:37:18] <Nick___> is there perhaps a database with preprogrammed AXIS extensions out there?
[22:37:28] <Einar_> On mine I just plugged it in, Linux found it out by itself, and I did not even need to calibrate it. :-)
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[22:37:51] <Einar_> So I got an Ilathe. ;-)
[22:37:59] <JT-Shop> tom_R2E3, I use ELO touch screens so I use the evtouch driver
[22:38:02] <tom_R2E3> stop showing off
[22:38:14] <tom_R2E3> Einar
[22:38:28] <Einar_> Hello!
[22:38:35] <JT-Shop> Nick___, can you describe what you mean?
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[22:39:30] <tom_R2E3> this one is branded CTX. I'll try evtouch, thanks John
[22:42:04] <Einar_> Mine is an Acer B226HQL. It was cheap, but I don't mind as long as it works. Recommended, except it seems to be capacitive. I would prefer one that needs a firm touch.
[22:42:17] <JT-Shop> tom_R2E3, I followed the instructions here https://help.ubuntu.com/community/EloTouchScreen
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[22:46:58] <Nick___> JT-Shop, unfortunately, my laptop does not display these white letters displaying the current spindle coordinates in the AXIS window (X: 0.0000 Y: ... Z. VEL.) . I am quite used to them, so I am looking for a way to cope. :) Thank you for your help
[22:47:21] <Nick___> My thought was to maybe use a custom panel using PyVCP+
[22:47:30] <Nick___> *PyVCP
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[23:05:54] <JT-Shop> PyVCP is pretty easy to do
[23:06:30] <JT-Shop> the DRO tab is black letters
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[23:07:18] <JT-Shop> Nick___, or you might use http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/gui/axis.html#_axisrc
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[23:14:09] <Nick___> Thank you, JT-Shop. I found the DRO-Tab but switching between that and the graphical output becomes tedious... I'll look into this PyVCP coding. Is there a comprehensive HAL pin list somewhere?
[23:19:08] <JT-Shop> http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/
[23:19:29] <JT-Shop> to see what you have installed Machine > Show Hal Configuration
[23:20:41] <Nick___> Very nice,Thank you for your help!
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[23:24:01] <JT-Shop> your welcome
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[23:44:26] <somenewguy_batu> so who has an extra 48v power supply they wanna send me?
[23:44:32] <somenewguy_batu> *sell
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[23:48:56] <JT-Shop> I can email you one maybe
[23:50:10] <JT-Shop> damn another sale on the web store
[23:51:18] <CHNCguy> I have a few, I get them online for like 60$ LOL
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[23:58:25] <CHNCguy> gn8 yall :)
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