#linuxcnc | Logs for 2014-02-27

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[00:38:20] <JT-Shop> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FQMbXvn2RNI&feature=kp
[00:38:30] <JT-Shop> for your evening entertainment
[00:40:58] <Tom_itx> you the DJ?
[00:41:00] <andypugh> Yet another male cow with an udder. That's so wrong.
[00:42:15] <JT-Shop> lol
[00:42:19] <JT-Shop> goodnight
[00:42:57] <Tom_itx> JT-Shop does it save all the settings?
[00:43:07] <andypugh> I actually quite like cows. They have a lot more natural curiosity than horses.
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[00:44:39] <andypugh> (If you have ever tried to fix a broken offroad bike in a cow field, you would know that)
[00:45:27] <Tom_itx> any bulls in the croud?
[00:45:30] <Tom_itx> :)
[00:45:30] <PetefromTn> Man that is a true classic... LMAO..
[00:46:28] <PetefromTn> Forgive me but Cows and Horses are some of the stupidest animals ever to roam the earth LOL...
[00:47:01] <andypugh> Yeah, but compared to sheep..
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[00:53:22] <PetefromTn> My kids just watched that for the first time and they were crackin' up. They especially like the part where he pissed in thier eye LOL
[00:54:29] <andypugh> He seemed to actually lactate in their eye. Just how confused are you guys about cows?
[00:56:00] <PetefromTn> he musta had some good aim..
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[01:17:24] <andypugh> I think I have a fundamental problem. I want a surface plate big enough to check my lathe bed. But even if I wanted to afford one, I could never lift it.
[01:18:23] <andypugh> They seem to be 200kg in the 3' x 2' size
[01:18:29] <PetefromTn> Mine is like 2x3 foot..
[01:18:49] <_methods> man last shop i was at we had an 10'x5' surface plate
[01:18:55] <_methods> it was so nice
[01:19:13] <andypugh> (and that is the smallest I could possibly use, the bed overlaps the diagonal slightly)
[01:19:21] <PetefromTn> Oh they make some huge ones.. Here in Oak Ridge they had a massive round one could park a truck on it.
[01:19:36] <_methods> yeah that 10x5 made inspection so easy
[01:19:49] <_methods> i never had to worry about having room
[01:20:06] <andypugh> Yeah, but I want one I can afford and can lift that is big enough for the job. Not possible, I think,
[01:20:18] <_methods> we got it at an auction for like $5k
[01:20:30] <PetefromTn> I use my 2x3 and it is usually large enough for what I want to do..
[01:20:39] <andypugh> Plan B is granite kitchen worktop, checked against my straightedge.
[01:20:43] <_methods> and 3 of those little brown and sharpe manual cmm's
[01:21:17] <andypugh> $5k is a bit much for a hobby, to scrape-in a lathe that cost £120
[01:21:30] <_methods> oh hahah no this was for work
[01:21:36] <_methods> not for the garage
[01:21:54] <andypugh> I might see if I can run my straightedge through the CMM at work.
[01:21:58] <_methods> i use my tablesaw for my plate here lol
[01:22:13] <Tom_itx> sell it on ebay when you're done
[01:22:21] <Tom_itx> or keep it for other uses
[01:22:44] <andypugh> (I am guessing that the proto-workshop at FoMoCo is pretty high-spec :-)
[01:22:47] <PetefromTn> I got a great deal on mine from a guy who was selling quite a few different ones from a shop that went out of business.
[01:22:59] <_methods> yeah auction is the way to go
[01:22:59] <Tom_itx> he had a nice 3' x 5' or thereabouts at the shop
[01:23:00] <PetefromTn> I think I paid like $50.00 for it..
[01:23:07] <Tom_itx> probably 6" thick
[01:23:16] <andypugh> Good buy. But I still couldn't lift it
[01:23:18] <_methods> yeah that's a nice plate
[01:23:18] <Tom_itx> at least 4
[01:24:53] <andypugh> Worst eBay auction ever, look at the title and which category he put it in: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/231156109312
[01:25:03] <Tom_itx> would 1/2" glass be flat enough?
[01:25:38] <andypugh> (click the "see original listing link"
[01:25:43] <_methods> hahah the spelling
[01:25:58] <_methods> or is that how you spell granite in the uk
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[01:26:14] <andypugh> It seems to be how _he_ spells is
[01:26:20] <_methods> hahah
[01:26:32] <andypugh> And Militaria->Surplus?
[01:26:58] <_methods> yeah if you shoot off a granite surface plate you'll be more accurate
[01:27:12] <andypugh> I would have bid higher, except I could not figure out how I could unlad it from the car.
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[01:27:28] <_methods> pipes and straps lol
[01:27:35] <_methods> and lots of grease
[01:27:37] <andypugh> 200kg?
[01:27:38] <Tom_itx> andypugh tell em you wanna test trucks for a while
[01:27:47] <_methods> and a couple fat girls
[01:28:06] <andypugh> Yeah, I need to make contacts in the Transit van team, or the Ranger team.
[01:28:07] <_methods> you use them for leverage
[01:28:52] <PetefromTn> http://imagebin.org/296064 Here's mine..
[01:29:21] <Tom_itx> that's not a bad size
[01:29:22] <_methods> yeah that's perfect for at the machine
[01:29:23] <andypugh> I want mine to be better focussed :-)
[01:29:25] <PetefromTn> http://imagebin.org/296065
[01:30:26] <andypugh> I have a 40" lathe bed though.
[01:31:04] <Tom_itx> what about glass?
[01:31:07] <andypugh> I think I am going to see how flat the kitchen worktops are.
[01:31:22] <andypugh> I have a 12um 1m straightedge
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[01:31:47] <PetefromTn> Before I got this one I had gone to a local monument shop to see if they had any scraps I got a decent piece like maybe 12x20 for free from them...
[01:31:56] <andypugh> So I can check the worktops. I suspect they end up really flat by accident, and are not calibrated
[01:32:14] <Tom_itx> http://clearwateren.com/engineering.php
[01:32:23] <Tom_itx> there's part of the table
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[01:33:21] <andypugh> Stuart S has a nice big table, and a nice laser thing too. The laser thing is properly cool.
[01:33:42] <Tom_itx> i saw his edm but didn't see the inspection room
[01:34:14] <Tom_itx> http://clearwateren.com/quality-assurance.php
[01:34:17] <Tom_itx> there's his cmm
[01:34:28] <postaL> anyone have a source for 1/4" to 1/8" collets for routers?
[01:34:35] <postaL> i have a dewalt router that i need an adapter for :(
[01:34:49] <Tom_itx> somebody here found some
[01:35:40] <andypugh> He has a laser on a tripod that tracks a corner-cube ball wherever in the room you take it. It's a bit like being on the wrong end of an ED-209
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[01:36:12] <Tom_itx> i'd like to have seen that
[01:36:49] <Tom_itx> same stuff they use in shipyards?
[01:36:53] <Tom_itx> for leveling
[01:37:05] <andypugh> postaL: Hmm, there is a US source that I have never used, but have heard mentioned. It might come to me
[01:37:18] <postaL> ping me if it does :-D
[01:37:57] <postaL> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Router-collet-1-8-X-1-4-brass-/171020820227
[01:38:26] <andypugh> postaL: http://www.precisebits.com
[01:38:43] <postaL> i love how most of the cnc website are built in 1996
[01:38:44] <postaL> :))
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[01:40:48] <andypugh> Brass is an under-rated material nowadays.
[01:40:57] <_methods> overpriced material
[01:41:37] <_methods> no body can afford to use copper or brass anymore
[01:41:38] <andypugh> Expensive material. But cheap to machine, and has good properties. The
[01:42:03] <Tom_itx> likes to grab cutters
[01:42:08] <_methods> you know it
[01:42:11] <Tom_itx> but generally easy to machine... yes
[01:42:11] <andypugh> You can often make back the material cost in machining cost
[01:42:30] <_methods> haha i heard about a shop someone told them to use kerosene or something like that for coolant while cutting it
[01:42:35] <postaL> http://www.mlcswoodworking.com/shopsite_sc/store/html/smarthtml/pages/bushing_ball_bearings.html
[01:42:38] <_methods> so they filled the coolant tank wiht kerosene
[01:42:44] <Tom_itx> i keep a few brass bars on hand here
[01:43:01] <Tom_itx> right now one is a counterweight on my sherline Z axis
[01:43:20] <andypugh> it's not _that_ expensive, especailly cast to near-net shape.
[01:43:43] <Tom_itx> about 2.125" roundbar
[01:44:23] <andypugh> Stronger than mild steel, never corrodes. What's not to like?
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[01:44:52] <_methods> looks sexy too
[01:44:56] <Tom_itx> i think i've got a stick of bronze too
[01:45:16] <Tom_itx> more copperish color than brass
[01:45:49] * Jymmm found a bunch of copper just laying there behind some drywall.
[01:45:53] <andypugh> Aye, the pannier rack on my R1 is stainless tube and brass hangers. Looks kind-of cool. Until I put the panniers on, when it looks like a sin against motorcycling.
[01:46:33] <skunkworks> we have the power distribution planes from the K&T control - about 1/8 thick - 4"X5ft about
[01:46:44] <skunkworks> it comes in handy
[01:46:52] <skunkworks> (copper)
[01:46:54] <andypugh> Tom_itx: Your vagueness about materials makes the metallurgist in me sad.
[01:47:12] <Tom_itx> if i knew exactly what it was...
[01:47:19] <Tom_itx> all from the surplus store
[01:47:31] <Jymmm> "Newsflash... Grave sites robbed of gold jewelry and titanium medical devices"
[01:47:34] <andypugh> I could look at it and tell you.
[01:48:32] <Tom_itx> alot of the brass is end stock from barb fittings etc i made years ago
[01:48:41] <skunkworks> I thought you had to taste it... ;)
[01:48:44] <Tom_itx> up to 1"
[01:48:51] <andypugh> Though I have no real idea how I can tell alloy steel from mild steel, or phossy-bronze from alumimium bronze, I just can.
[01:49:39] <andypugh> Jymmm: Newsflash from the days of the Pharohs?
[01:49:55] <PetefromTn> I need some small brass pieces for a project I am working on like 1.5" round stock....
[01:50:15] <Tom_itx> how small?
[01:50:19] <andypugh> PetefromTn: eBay for short lengths.
[01:50:20] <Jymmm> andypugh: From the hours of yesterday. It' the new Being Green and recycling project =)
[01:50:48] <PetefromTn> I think I got a piece here that is like ten inches by 1.5 or so but I gotta see because I made a sorta ornate turning out of it once...
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[01:51:01] <andypugh> Absolutely, anyone buried with non-biodegradables deserves to lose them.
[01:51:17] <Jymmm> exactly
[01:51:38] <Jymmm> who needs solid brass handle on their coffin like that
[01:52:10] <andypugh> It's just selfish. And being selfish and dead makes no sense at all
[01:52:40] <Tom_itx> possibly a good combination though
[01:52:44] <PetefromTn> Personally I don't understand why we bury people that is not sustainable over the long haul LOL...
[01:53:00] <Jymmm> Sure, yu can take it with you, but, we're gonna get it back! Go ahead and try to stop us!
[01:53:08] <Tom_itx> PetefromTn, it's a whole industry
[01:53:17] <Jymmm> ...you're dead biotch!
[01:53:21] <PetefromTn> Oh I know and they are making a lot of bank..
[01:53:36] <Tom_itx> Jymmm i'll come back and haunt you
[01:53:53] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: And I'd just laugh =)
[01:53:55] <skunkworks> they do green burials around here. (wrap you in a sheet - bury you in the woods.)
[01:53:59] <Tom_itx> or come back in the form of your ex
[01:54:05] <andypugh> I am tempted to donate my body to medical students, on the proviso that off-colour practical jokes with my parts are de-riguer. I really do not expect to care at that point.
[01:54:37] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: Think about it a moment... I annoy the hell out of people now, what do you think I'd do if you were dead?
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[01:55:18] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: So, who's haunting who now? Muhahahahahaha
[01:55:45] <Tom_itx> we joke about that here.. how we will know it's us when we're gone when we come back to haunt each other
[01:55:45] <andypugh> <serious philosophical point> I think that Microsoft have helped chane
[01:56:14] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: our annoyances....
[01:56:56] <PetefromTn> Jeez man the shit we talk about on here hehehehe....
[01:57:08] <skunkworks> reason why mach is faster? http://imagebin.org/295789
[01:57:14] <andypugh> ... Change attitudes here. It used to be that you could not believe that a person was gone with no return. But after losing a few multi-hour Word documents, you realise that what is gone really can be gone for good.
[01:57:56] <PetefromTn> skunkworks: Huh what do you mean?
[01:58:01] <Tom_itx> crap that sucks
[01:58:07] <Tom_itx> no kidding...
[01:58:24] <Tom_itx> PetefromTn look at the actual and the followed path
[01:58:39] <andypugh> skunkworks: Hmm, feedback from the Mach stepper to the Linux CNC system with following error > 12" ?
[01:59:02] <PetefromTn> is this not linuxCNC?
[01:59:03] <skunkworks> (granted that is flat-out strait G64...)
[01:59:24] <andypugh> This really is a fun setup you have
[01:59:27] <skunkworks> But I don't think people even know what it is doing..
[01:59:48] <skunkworks> andypugh: it is fun..
[02:00:25] <Tom_itx> by 'people' you mean mach users?
[02:00:35] <skunkworks> yes
[02:00:44] <skunkworks> 'it runs faster - it is better'
[02:00:48] <Tom_itx> post that on their forum ;D
[02:00:52] <PetefromTn> I see how the toolpath and the actual path are quite different.
[02:00:57] <andypugh> To be honest, the fact is that any part like that is art not engineering, and the finished result will look good
[02:01:08] <skunkworks> constraint violations are larger as the speed increases..
[02:01:32] <PetefromTn> how did you get mach3 toolpaths into linuxCNC sim?
[02:01:49] <Tom_itx> andypugh, not necessarily... aircraft are highly surfaced parts
[02:01:49] <skunkworks> with 30 in/s^2 and 500ipm - it does ok at <75ipm.. but if you run it flat out - you get that...
[02:02:18] <andypugh> Tom_itx: And how many aircraft manufacturers use Mach?
[02:02:20] <skunkworks> PetefromTn: I am using mesa hardware to count the step/dir out of mach..
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[02:02:31] <Tom_itx> heh, none i know of
[02:02:42] <skunkworks> so linuxcnc is seeing it like an encoder feed back
[02:02:56] <andypugh> How many aircraft manufacturers use LinuxCNC?
[02:03:04] <Tom_itx> stuart
[02:03:17] <andypugh> :-)
[02:03:22] <skunkworks> so I get velocity and position out of the mesa card and calculate acceleration..
[02:03:23] <Tom_itx> maybe a few more
[02:04:09] <skunkworks> maybe the constraint violations are small enough that most steppers (and probably more so step-servo) systems don't really notice it.
[02:04:38] <Tom_itx> skunkworks what's the stepover distance on the path there?
[02:04:59] <skunkworks> Tom_itx: I would have to look.. (I don't have it here..)
[02:05:04] <skunkworks> http://imagebin.org/292790
[02:05:06] <andypugh> skunkworks: I _think_ LinuxCNC guarantees to touch every line segment in any mode. Mach is not even doing that in that plot.
[02:05:13] <skunkworks> that violation is within 100ms..
[02:05:21] <skunkworks> andypugh: right.
[02:05:54] <Tom_itx> Woops! That image may have been removed
[02:06:03] <andypugh> I think you have been talking on their mailing list, is that publically accessible?
[02:06:32] <skunkworks> http://electronicsam.com/images/KandT/testing/MachViol.png
[02:06:59] <skunkworks> yes - although it the few post lately have been radio silence
[02:07:06] <andypugh> Art has been in the discussion, I believe?
[02:07:11] <skunkworks> not that it really matters.
[02:07:14] <skunkworks> sure - let me find it
[02:08:08] <skunkworks> https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/mach1mach2cnc/conversations/messages/143276
[02:08:28] <andypugh> Ideally it would be good if both LinuxCNC and Mach could get better. This isn't a war, this is people supplying software to people who make stuff.
[02:09:08] <skunkworks> andypugh: sure. Actually partly why I posted it.. (partly ;) )
[02:09:55] <andypugh> Hmm, needs a Yahoo login, but I have one.
[02:10:27] <skunkworks> shouldn't - it maybe the link is in as me.. the mach yahoo group allows you to read them.
[02:14:08] <skunkworks> I think the new TP performs as good or better. (from my bit of testing)
[02:14:25] <skunkworks> Plus you get a lot better control over path following
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[02:16:43] <PetefromTn> as good or better than what?
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[02:17:16] <skunkworks> mach
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[02:18:01] <Tom_itx> or previous linuxcnc
[02:18:09] <PetefromTn> I thought it was already better than mach.. We talking about mach4 here?
[02:18:17] <jdh> new and improved!
[02:18:28] <jdh> best vaporCNC!
[02:19:03] <skunkworks> PetefromTn: the big complaint of the current trajectory planner in linuxcnc is that files with lots of sort segments perform poorly if run at higher speeds.
[02:19:36] <jdh> is that indicative of poor CAM?
[02:19:46] <skunkworks> The main issue is linuxcnc currently only looks one segment ahead. (which works fine for most things)
[02:20:04] <Tom_itx> jdh, that's a possibility but the path following is in the control
[02:20:07] <PetefromTn> what does the new TP do?
[02:20:18] <skunkworks> PetefromTn: looks ahead :)
[02:20:29] <PetefromTn> yeah I know that but how far?
[02:20:34] <skunkworks> you can set it. (I have set it at 50)
[02:20:47] <PetefromTn> 50 lines of code?
[02:20:50] <Tom_itx> skunkworks, is that the ini settings you told me about?
[02:20:55] <skunkworks> yes
[02:21:03] <PetefromTn> what is the max?
[02:21:14] <Tom_itx> PetefromTn it's one of the 3 versions i'm running here
[02:21:18] <skunkworks> I don't know if there is a limit - that would be a question for rob
[02:21:22] <jdh> sure, but do you need to optimize the planner for poor cam software?
[02:21:40] <Tom_itx> skunkworks that might be a memory constraint...
[02:21:49] <PetefromTn> how does the amount of look ahead setting increase affect the way the control runs?
[02:21:50] <skunkworks> sure - or calculating speed..
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[02:21:59] <skunkworks> it has to do it in a servo cycle
[02:22:15] <skunkworks> I didn't see a performance increase setting it higher..
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[02:22:40] <skunkworks> mach - I had to set it to 200 lines to get it not to dip.
[02:23:00] <PetefromTn> I assume you are testing in simulation under complex 3d toolpaths
[02:23:15] <skunkworks> jdh: now poor cam paths run very well
[02:23:18] <skunkworks> :)
[02:23:44] <PetefromTn> How far along before the new TP will be in a stable release or in master?
[02:24:22] <skunkworks> http://www.linuxcnc.org/index.php/english/forum/10-advanced-configuration/27368-new-trajectory-planner-testersprograms-wanted?start=110#44153
[02:24:30] <PetefromTn> I ran mach3 and was not even aware you could adjust the lookahead...
[02:25:29] <andypugh> If you watch this video of mine, and have the patience to get to 1:20 you will see that some XZ blends are strange: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZSLB-ue4CTI&list=UUexvgsGz_QFvOublovDYoTQ&feature=share&index=10
[02:25:37] <Tom_itx> PetefromTn you can download and compile it
[02:25:40] <skunkworks> PetefromTn: not sure - after the next release of linuxcnc.. but I think they want to get the buildbot building debs so people can test.
[02:26:59] <skunkworks> That is a good thread explaining it...
[02:28:19] <PetefromTn> andypugh: you mean how it kinda staggers atop the radius there?
[02:28:43] <PetefromTn> this is with the new TP?
[02:28:48] <andypugh> Yes. No reasson to that I could see either.
[02:29:18] <andypugh> No, that was with the normal TP, I was just making a pattern
[02:29:40] <andypugh> But running a lot faster than I would in metal.
[02:29:41] <PetefromTn> Okay so the new TP may have improved this?
[02:30:03] <andypugh> We can hope
[02:30:35] <Tom_itx> i wonder how accurate fanuc etc controls actually are
[02:31:28] <skunkworks> well - what is nice about linuxcnc is you can follow it as close as you want.
[02:32:22] <andypugh> In my ideal world Art and Rob work together to make both LinuxCNC and Mach better.
[02:33:06] <skunkworks> http://imagebin.org/294306
[02:33:16] <skunkworks> that is mach with 20 segment look ahead
[02:33:45] <andypugh> I was an Apple fan in the 90s. You can still feel superior with a tiny market share, trust me on this
[02:34:43] <Tom_itx> heh
[02:35:45] <andypugh> skunkworks: With all due respect, that's just squiggles. Nobody but you knowns what that means. The other image was really clear. This is your code, this is the path.
[02:35:50] <PetefromTn> that screenshot looks pretty but again I don't understand it. Maybe I am in the wrong forum because I always feel like a dumbass around here LOL..
[02:36:18] <Tom_itx> it's a comparison of input vs output
[02:36:40] <skunkworks> andypugh: sorry - trying to find another picture
[02:36:41] <skunkworks> http://imagebin.org/294945
[02:36:50] <skunkworks> that is with 200 line look ahead.
[02:36:51] <andypugh> PetefromTn: No, I am really clever, and I don't get it either. :-)
[02:36:52] <skunkworks> (a lot better)
[02:37:10] <PetefromTn> ;P
[02:38:09] <PetefromTn> so is the blue the actual path?
[02:38:34] <skunkworks> the blue line in the first one is xyz velocity. The second one (of course I must have changed xyz velocicty to red) is better
[02:38:40] <Tom_itx> why is the vel 1/div and the accel 20/div?
[02:38:54] <Tom_itx> is that amplitude?
[02:38:58] <skunkworks> vel is in in/sec...
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[02:40:12] <skunkworks> so the first image must be showing machs version of que starvation
[02:40:45] <andypugh> No, really, it's just squiggles to us.
[02:41:38] <skunkworks> be the squiggles!
[02:41:57] <andypugh> Green is real, I get that.
[02:42:01] <PetefromTn> my head hurts from squiggles.
[02:42:37] <skunkworks> is that green - sorry - I am color blind..
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[02:43:11] <andypugh> But I don't see what I can deduce from comparing encoder.00.velocity to any of the accell curves?
[02:43:58] <skunkworks> does it help to know that the acc is delayed by 36ms from the velocity?
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[02:44:20] <skunkworks> you can really see it here..
[02:44:22] <skunkworks> linuxcnc.org/
[02:44:25] <PetefromTn> so all I wanna know is does the new TP kick mach3's ass?
[02:44:29] <Connor_iPad> PetefromTn: Got the mill moved into the enclosure.
[02:44:44] <skunkworks> or here here even http://electronicsam.com/images/KandT/testing/MachViol.png
[02:44:49] <PetefromTn> Connor: Super man glad to hear it. Got all your fingers and toes still?
[02:44:51] <andypugh> Not really, as I rather exoect them to be different numbers
[02:45:02] <Connor_iPad> Oh yea. Wasn't too bad.
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[02:45:50] <PetefromTn> SO I assume you are smiling ear to ear then...
[02:46:18] <skunkworks> andypugh: assuming I am not doing something wrong..
[02:46:46] <skunkworks> andypugh: in the last screen shot - if you calculate out the acc from the change in velocity - it seems to be right...
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[02:46:57] <andypugh> skunkworks: No, really, I can't. I see two positions and one velcity and one accel. what should I be comparing to what?
[02:48:53] <andypugh> Maybe there is a limits violation, but there are no limits on the graph.
[02:49:55] <andypugh> (If you want limit curves you could create a signal, sets it, and plot it)
[02:50:20] reksio666 is now known as micges
[02:50:36] <skunkworks> wait - what? http://electronicsam.com/images/KandT/testing/MachViol.png mainly what we are looking at velocity and - the slope of the velocity is acceleration.
[02:50:49] <skunkworks> or am I missing something?
[02:51:06] <andypugh> Yes, and, what is wrong?
[02:51:23] <skunkworks> I am taking the dirivitive of the velocity and getting acceleration (over 36ms) -
[02:52:01] <skunkworks> ah - ok - the accelleration calculated should be under 30in/s^2 and it is peaking at over 100
[02:52:12] <andypugh> Ah!
[02:52:15] <skunkworks> :)
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[02:52:28] <skunkworks> we communicate as well as my wife and I
[02:52:38] <skunkworks> we communicate as well as my wife and I
[02:52:42] <skunkworks> heh
[02:52:46] <skunkworks> maybe it is me.
[02:53:17] <andypugh> You perhaps should have mentioned what the max accel was meant to be.
[02:53:19] <Tom_itx> is that a product of PID overshoot?
[02:53:32] <skunkworks> (I have been mainly testing linuxcnc and mach with machine settings to 500ipm and 30in/s^2)
[02:53:44] <skunkworks> andypugh: agreed
[02:54:07] <skunkworks> wait - 'maybe it IS me'
[02:54:56] <andypugh> I am cautious about measuring accel from discrete data
[02:55:32] <skunkworks> well - I trust the velocity plot.. And if you do a paper on the screen calculation - it comes out to the same.
[02:55:37] <skunkworks> andypugh: what would be better?
[02:56:00] <andypugh> You asked..
[02:56:02] <skunkworks> *strait edge on the screen
[02:56:09] <PetefromTn> I liked the screenshot of the toolpath more it was easier to understand.
[02:56:44] <andypugh> I prefer to take a least-squared polynomial fit to the data, then explicilty differentiate.
[02:58:59] <skunkworks> so - log the data and process it
[02:59:07] <andypugh> So, if your polynomial fit gives you y = 1 + 2.x + 3.x2 + 4.x3 then the accel is the derivitive of that polynomial
[03:00:11] <andypugh> (which I think is 2 + 3/2 x + 3/4 x^2 but it's been a while
[03:00:35] <skunkworks> my calculus is a bit rusty...
[03:00:39] <andypugh> Mine too
[03:01:50] <andypugh> But the point is that you fit a polynomial to a segment of the data around where you are looking, and get the gradient of that
[03:02:39] <andypugh> Even Excel can give you the polynomial, then the gradient is fairly easy.
[03:02:49] <skunkworks> sure
[03:03:33] <andypugh> email me the data and I will make Matlab do the dull stuff
[03:04:14] <andypugh> (halscope can save data, a much under-used facility)
[03:05:47] <skunkworks> sure - I will do that tomorrow - thanks!!
[03:07:53] <skunkworks> would you only need velocity?
[03:08:19] <skunkworks> *what would you like to see?
[03:10:46] <andypugh> If you give me velocity it would be interesting to see what my algorithm calculates accel at.
[03:11:01] <Connor> skunkworks: andypugh: What are you two going on about?
[03:11:46] <andypugh> I can't imagine I am the only one to ever do a poly fit the explicitly differentiate, but neither has anyone else mentioned the ide to me.
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[03:12:54] <skunkworks> I have logged the output of one of the 'other' machine control..
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[03:17:26] <skunkworks> andypugh: all I can compare to is the output of linuxcnc's step/dir. with the derivative over 36ms - I rarely get anything over 35in/s^2
[03:18:55] <andypugh> Aye, I am just saying that accel is notoriously hard to calculate.
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[03:21:28] <skunkworks> as I found out. You should see what it looks like if you calculate it every servo cycle.. ;)
[03:21:35] <skunkworks> noise
[03:21:58] <andypugh> And a lowpass is a bad estimate.
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[03:23:52] <skunkworks> sure - I tried an actual low pass also.. pcw_home came up with the idea of measuring the acc in a slower thread
[03:24:23] <skunkworks> sort of a different low pass... ;)
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[03:26:27] <andypugh> Hmm, not the best solution.
[03:27:00] <skunkworks> well - it surely doesn't catch things. (mutlible runs give different results..)
[03:27:15] <andypugh> I came up with the numerical differntiation thing working on impact testing, where it really matters.
[03:29:08] <skunkworks> andypugh: neat. It would make me feel better if someone else looked at the data..
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[03:44:32] <zeeshan> man
[03:44:35] <zeeshan> i hit a big score today
[03:45:03] <zeeshan> http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p252/turbozee84/3222189E-B4D9-406E-A69A-43B742D06EB1_zpsizwqfu6f.jpg
[03:45:07] <zeeshan> all for $50
[03:45:14] <zeeshan> http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p252/turbozee84/B9292AD6-5E3F-4292-B039-C04B95D6A371_zpsp94xkqix.jpg
[03:46:21] <Tom_itx> you got holders for em?
[03:47:08] <zeeshan> ya
[03:47:18] <zeeshan> tcmt is for the boring bars
[03:47:30] <zeeshan> wnmg is for the faceing/parting tools
[03:47:31] <zeeshan> er
[03:47:36] <zeeshan> facing/turning tools
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[07:44:56] <Deejay> moin
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[12:47:00] <PetefromTn> wtf I am so over this cold now.. ready for some spring weather!!
[12:55:26] <jthornton> me too
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[12:56:10] <Tom_itx> 22 F
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[12:56:49] <jthornton> Tom_itx, I got the save ops done
[12:58:42] <PetefromTn> LOL my van said 22 degrees on the way to taking my kids to school this morning.
[12:59:39] <Tom_itx> does it save everything?
[12:59:58] <Tom_itx> or select bits
[13:00:58] <jthornton> just what you select
[13:01:37] <jthornton> stupid thunderbird keeps adding a v onto my copy and paste
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[13:09:20] <jthornton> got that crap turned off finally
[13:15:48] <Tom_itx> all i see posted is 1.6.08 still
[13:16:02] <jthornton> aye
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[13:17:14] <jthornton> no use to save if you can't restore
[13:17:30] <Tom_itx> :D
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[13:33:10] <Zaaarin> Hi guys I got some massive gears, but the scrapyard didn't have any pinions, they are MOD 3.0, any ideas where I can get some metal pinions from? I'm hoping to tapthread some pinion gears onto some NEMA 34's Here's a photo of these big metal gears I got: http://i.imgur.com/3BigwOv.jpg
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[13:40:13] <MattyMatt> http://www.beltingonline.com/gears-racks-366/
[13:40:33] <MattyMatt> there's a place in poland that's good & cheap
[13:40:45] <Zaaarin> do either of them ship to Cyprus?
[13:41:22] <MattyMatt> ah beltingonline do, but expensively
[13:41:49] <MattyMatt> can't you print mod 3.0?
[13:41:56] <MattyMatt> that's massive
[13:42:20] <MattyMatt> nearly 10mm pitch teeth?
[13:42:58] <Zaaarin> I got a 3d printed one, but it ain't gonna handle the load for shite
[13:43:17] <Zaaarin> Hence why I know the gears I picked up are mod 3 for defos, meshed nicley with the ones Jezmy did for me ages ago
[13:44:09] <MattyMatt> http://www.beltingonline.com/gears-racks-366/spur-gears-367/metric-0-5-to-8-mod-375/3-0-mod-spur-gear-522/steel-391/ these are your babies then
[13:44:43] <MattyMatt> I got my lathe for the cost of about 10 of them :)
[13:45:27] <MattyMatt> fitting a lathe up for cutting gears would probably cost about 20 gears worth tho
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[13:48:19] <Zaaarin> Better off with a water laser cutter
[13:49:18] <MattyMatt> you need to be, to get one :)
[13:49:28] <MattyMatt> especially if you gotta pay for water
[13:49:53] <Zaaarin> lol
[13:50:00] <Zaaarin> it's no joke, water is too expensive here
[13:50:36] <MattyMatt> geothermal desalination is the answer
[13:52:00] -!- MacGalempsy_ has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds]
[13:52:01] <MattyMatt> seawater goes down a hole, and comes up the neasert volcano as steam, with the sodium & chlorine piped up as a byproduct
[13:52:22] <jthornton> ok Tom_itx
[13:52:29] <jthornton> you can get 1.7.00 now
[13:52:36] <Zaaarin> If you understood the geology of Cyprus, you would know a) the gypsum ground is very unstable and hard to bore through without support, b) the water table is relatively high (although going down) and posses a problem for accessing geothermal, c)the cost
[13:52:43] <archivist> I just made a set of gears for a customer in Cyprus !
[13:52:50] <Zaaarin> Have you?
[13:52:55] <Zaaarin> How big?
[13:53:09] <archivist> how small you should ask
[13:53:18] <archivist> .5 mod
[13:53:45] <Zaaarin> :o I got mod 1 and those teeth are tiny
[13:53:56] <Zaaarin> 0.5 mod? Clockwork mouse teeth
[13:53:59] <Zaaarin> Model racing car
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[13:54:37] <archivist> dancing frogs model
[13:54:40] <archivist> http://www.collection.archivist.info/archive/DJCPD/PD/2014/2014_01_19_Cyprus_gears/IMG_1735.JPG
[13:56:14] <archivist> google hpc gears for standard mod 3
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[14:25:33] <Loetmichel> zaar: whrere is the problem?
[14:25:57] <Loetmichel> oh, gone already
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[15:02:41] <JT-Shop> $288 delivered for two bottom track roller assemblies and a reversing lever
[15:02:56] <pcw_home> ???
[15:08:08] <JT-Shop> for my JD350 crawler... I thought the prices would be higher when I went looking for some used parts
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[15:09:49] <pcw_home> Is it common enough that parts are easy to find?
[15:10:40] <JT-Shop> seems to be
[15:11:04] <JT-Shop> heck you can still get some new parts from John Deere
[15:11:30] <JT-Shop> mostly wear parts from JD
[15:12:03] <JT-Shop> http://www.gnipsel.com/images/JD350B/
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[15:13:29] <JT-Shop> in my driveway http://www.gnipsel.com/images/JD350B/350-06.jpg
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[15:16:50] <JT-Shop> if the OEM removed all the stickers from a DC servo (I can see the brush caps) how can you get a general idea of what size it is?
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[15:17:30] <Jymmm> In my driveway... http://www.cbsnews.com/videos/hennessey-venom-gt-the-fastest-sports-car-in-the-world/
[15:17:53] <pcw_home> Spin it and measure the output voltage at a known speed
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[15:18:11] <JT-Shop> ok
[15:18:56] <pcw_home> or measure DC motor supply voltage if you have the system
[15:19:17] <pcw_home> that and weight/size will get you pretty close
[15:19:25] <JT-Shop> yes, they have the whole system
[15:19:31] <JT-Shop> ok
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[15:24:59] <pcw_home> I bet you could make a pretty good KW estimate based on motor weight and max RPM
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[15:32:13] * JT-Shop bets Peter could make a pretty good estimate
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[16:55:10] <Zaaarin> Hi does anybody know if there are any dangers when welding onto used gears coated in transmission fluid?
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[16:58:45] <archivist> I usually treat gears with care not welding
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[17:03:36] <Zaaarin> bolt them to something else that's welded?
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[17:04:01] <archivist> what are you making
[17:05:30] <Zaaarin> I got some cogs today from the JCB scrap heap: http://i.imgur.com/GXNMs6w.jpg
[17:05:47] <Zaaarin> You see them 4 inch and 3 inch pipe segments in the topright corner?
[17:06:20] <Zaaarin> Idea is a central shaft that allows steam to permeate through the middle, the segments rotate without releasing much gas by way of the "labyrinth seal" concept
[17:06:34] <Zaaarin> Slow high torque rotation
[17:08:19] <Zaaarin> basically if I weld that 4 inch pipe into the middle of that flywheel, a) will the gear warp, b) will the residual transmission fluid on the gear's emmissions kill me? c) will it hold?
[17:08:35] <Zaaarin> I'm thinking of welding it with 6013
[17:09:00] <archivist> gears often are used in hydraulic motors low speed high torque, steam in high speed expansion type prime movers
[17:09:00] <Zaaarin> I don't even know if this is mild steel or some super hard alloy
[17:09:28] <Zaaarin> This is just to rotate a dish, the steam goes through the middle, the steam doesn't steer this at all
[17:11:12] <archivist> ring seal methinks, if there is any pressure behind the steam
[17:13:01] <archivist> will the gear warp, yes a bit where bit is unknown as we dont know your welding and if you are balancing the strain
[17:13:54] <Zaaarin> I was thinking of welding plates with 3 inch and 4 inch holes cut into each of them onto the 3 inch and 4 inch pipe segments so when it rotates there's minimal loss, maybe lathe the holes in the plates a bit so there's a bit of give between pipes
[17:14:04] <Zaaarin> What if I tac it in like 8 places around the pipe?
[17:15:19] <Zaaarin> The 3 inch pipe is the central drive shaft, the gear is connected to the pipe, the pinion on the motor turns the whole shaft
[17:15:52] <Zaaarin> I'm using 6013 2.5mm stick welding
[17:16:01] <archivist> what steam pressure are you dreaming of
[17:16:53] <Zaaarin> depends what a 4m parabolic dish coated in 10,000 little mirrors at this ceramic coated boiler concentrated from the sun will do, I'm guessing quite a few bar
[17:17:08] <Zaaarin> truth is I don't know, hence the project
[17:19:01] <archivist> I think you may be losing as much steam as you generate if you done rethink your sealing
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[17:20:15] <Loetmichel> Zaaarin: depends on how big the boiler is
[17:21:06] <Loetmichel> 4m dish will generate about 12kW heat on a sunny day in the focal pint
[17:21:08] <Loetmichel> point
[17:21:17] <Jymmm> Make a molten salt solar stile instead =)
[17:22:23] <archivist> and steam boilers make good bombs
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[17:22:57] <Jymmm> hot water heaters make good rockets too
[17:23:43] <Loetmichel> that accounts to evaporating at LEAST 60 milliliters water a SECOND
[17:23:57] <Loetmichel> and that is not a small amount of steam!
[17:24:03] <archivist> that scrap would not be allowed in the UK pressure vessel regulations
[17:25:47] <Jymmm> Water heater rocket http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9bU-I2ZiML0
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[17:27:47] <Loetmichel> Jymmm: you forgot to mentoun the two stories of "house" it penetrates before being a rocket ;-)
[17:28:17] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: That's just iicing on the cake
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[17:31:17] <davef> Anyone know if this box will run linuxcnc OK? HP DC5700 small form factor computer.
[17:31:27] <davef> Specs:
[17:31:28] arekm_ is now known as arekm
[17:31:33] <davef> http://h20566.www2.hp.com/portal/site/hpsc/template.PAGE/public/kb/docDisplay/?sp4ts.oid=3249646&spf_p.tpst=kbDocDisplay&spf_p.prp_kbDocDisplay=wsrp-navigationalState%3DdocId%253Demr_na-c00809043-33%257CdocLocale%253Den%257CcalledBy%253DSearch_Result&javax.portlet.begCacheTok=com.vignette.cachetoken&javax.portlet.endCacheTok=com.vignette.cachetoken
[17:32:02] <Loetmichel> davef: should work
[17:32:34] <davef> Has on-board nVidia graphics -- ?
[17:32:35] <Loetmichel> but unless one of the inhabitants here HAS one you cant be sure because of issues with SMI tasks and stuff
[17:32:43] <archivist> if it passes the latency test with sensible numbers
[17:33:28] <Loetmichel> davef: i use a fuSi PC for my CNC
[17:33:29] <davef> Right. It's to be a replacement for my box with fried MB.
[17:33:36] <Loetmichel> that has a sempron3000 in it
[17:33:40] <Loetmichel> and it works
[17:33:47] <Loetmichel> the cpu isnt the problem
[17:34:04] <davef> Loetmichel: Sorry all greek to me. :)
[17:34:14] <Loetmichel> some of these boxes have power saving interrupts that will make your day miserable
[17:34:27] <davef> Hmmm...
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[17:34:38] <Loetmichel> davef: FuSi= Fujitsu siemens
[17:34:48] <archivist> and nvdida steal your cycles also giving bad latency
[17:34:53] <davef> I just bought three of them used, have not picked them up yet...
[17:35:21] <Loetmichel> davef: so start the linuxCNC life CD in one and do a latency test
[17:35:28] <archivist> plug in another video adapter if the latency is bad
[17:35:29] <davef> I can disable the MB graphics and use a card though right?
[17:35:39] <archivist> yes
[17:35:40] <Loetmichel> the lifeCD will even run on a p4-2ghz
[17:35:47] <Loetmichel> and on 1gb ram
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[17:36:30] <archivist> I got some old compaqs the other week, seem ok
[17:36:35] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=13089&g2_imageViewsIndex=1
[17:37:24] <Loetmichel> have cramed that industrial board into the base of a small mill for a co-worker
[17:37:29] <Loetmichel> +m
[17:37:40] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=13131
[17:37:46] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=13149
[17:37:56] <Loetmichel> (lower compartment)
[17:39:08] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=13128 <- there you can see the back of the card (missing the slot plate) sticking out
[17:40:48] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=13116&g2_imageViewsIndex=1 <- still missing the e-stop-switch ;-)
[17:40:49] <humble_sea_bass> i smell keyboard enthousiast
[17:40:57] <Loetmichel> ?
[17:41:23] <humble_sea_bass> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=13131
[17:41:43] <Loetmichel> these silicon keyboards are great for CNC
[17:42:11] <Loetmichel> waterproof, heat resistant, no openings for swarf to get in and block the keys
[17:42:16] <humble_sea_bass> oh i thought you were cutting keycaps. didn't occur to me that it was a sylicone keyboard
[17:42:29] <Loetmichel> the're not really good fro writing essays, though
[17:42:42] <humble_sea_bass> I'm a crazy person so I use a cherry keyboard on my CNC
[17:43:21] <Loetmichel> humble_sea_bass: my own machine has the same: http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=12569
[17:43:57] <humble_sea_bass> i should probably move to ne of those
[17:44:13] <humble_sea_bass> that way I don't have to be all careful
[17:45:08] <Loetmichel> be careful when cleaning it: the cable intake is NOT waterproof
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[17:45:40] <davef> Loetmichel: I think I read this box needs low-profile cards... I'm not familiar with those. Would my normal size graphics card wouk in the PCI slot if I just took the case cover off?
[17:45:46] <Loetmichel> but otherwise they are pretty "die hard"
[17:46:00] <Loetmichel> it would
[17:46:08] <Loetmichel> but many cards are low profile
[17:46:10] <Zaaarin> Loetmichel, how about heatlosses through conduction through the ceramic seals and jacket? Howabout heatlosses through convection of air going across the bare metal heat exchange? Pressurelosses through teh tiny gaps in the rotating seals? Inefficiencies in the placement of the mirrors and the dust on the mirrors?
[17:46:11] -!- IchGuckLive [IchGuckLive!~chatzilla@95-89-102-56-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #linuxcnc
[17:46:20] <IchGuckLive> hi all
[17:46:29] <Loetmichel> it just means they are 23/3 height of the slot plate
[17:46:33] <Zaaarin> Still any ideas how much psi 60ml/sec would do in a 100mm (3inch) diam pipe?
[17:46:47] <Zaaarin> sorry had to bath the baby
[17:46:53] <davef> Oh good! Any suggestion for a low-profile graphics card cheap?
[17:47:00] <Loetmichel> and in the best case you have a differen slot plate with it that ccan be mounted for low profile use
[17:47:11] <Loetmichel> davef: which country?
[17:47:47] <Loetmichel> http://www.pollin.de/shop/dt/NTM0ODkyOTk-/Computer_und_Zubehoer/Hardware/Grafikkarten/Grafikkarte_ATI_Radeon_HD5450_512_MB_GDDR3_passiv.html
[17:47:47] <IchGuckLive> ;-) it is the 5th season Loetmichel all girls are mad today
[17:47:49] <davef> USA
[17:47:59] <Loetmichel> IchGuckLive: sadly, it is
[17:48:09] <IchGuckLive> O.O
[17:48:18] <Loetmichel> davc: soory, i dont know any shops there
[17:48:32] <davef> 'K
[17:48:35] <Zaaarin> loetmichel, you recommend a 512meg!? I'm using 2 gig and I STILL wish I had a more powerful gfx card, still 20 quid is not to be sniffed at
[17:48:35] <Loetmichel> but use any cheap card that looks like this
[17:48:49] <Loetmichel> Zaaarin: for a CNC pc?
[17:48:50] <Loetmichel> why?
[17:49:14] <Zaaarin> depends how complex your designs are and if you're attempting to simulate them real time
[17:49:31] <Loetmichel> on the linuxCNC pc?
[17:49:32] <Loetmichel> why?
[17:49:36] <IchGuckLive> my hole pc is not that vprice of this graphics
[17:49:41] <Loetmichel> dont you have a cad pc for that?
[17:49:50] <IchGuckLive> and im running at 10m7min with no steploss
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[17:50:00] <jthornton> more and more added http://www.gnipsel.com/files/g-code-generator/
[17:50:08] <Zaaarin> I got an all in one rig that does everything, very power inefficent, but hey I got 8 cores 32gig of ram I'm not complaining
[17:50:36] <IchGuckLive> Zaaarin: your cnc will use only one core
[17:50:51] <IchGuckLive> get you a cheep pc
[17:51:13] <IchGuckLive> like ibm a50 for 25USD
[17:51:16] <Zaaarin> I suppose if you're making a dedicated rig, yeah don't waste cash on what you don't need heh
[17:51:33] <Loetmichel> Zaaarin: davef wants to know if this box will be good for LinuxCNC: [18:31] <davef> http://h20566.www2.hp.com/portal/site/hpsc/template.PAGE/public/kb/docDisplay/?sp4ts.oid=3249646&spf_p.tpst=kbDocDisplay&spf_p.prp_kbDocDisplay=wsrp-navigationalState%3DdocId%253Demr_na-c00809043-33%257CdocLocale%253Den%257CcalledBy%253DSearch_Result&javax.portlet.begCacheTok=com.vignette.cachetoken&javax.po
[17:51:33] <Loetmichel> rtlet.endCacheTok=com.vignette.cachetoken
[17:51:54] <IchGuckLive> you will run in trouble to keep the other cores on interacting your realtime
[17:52:10] <Loetmichel> and we said: yes, it will but you may have issuees with the internal nvidia card
[17:52:29] <Loetmichel> so i reccomended him a cheap solution.
[17:52:54] <Loetmichel> IchGuckLive: thats problems gone since at least 2.5
[17:52:58] <Zaaarin> loet: page won;t load
[17:53:04] <IchGuckLive> Deejay: http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_trksid=p2050601.m570.l1313&_nkw=ibm+a50&_sacat=0&_from=R40
[17:53:37] <Loetmichel> Zaaarin: google yourself: [18:31] <davef> Anyone know if this box will run linuxcnc OK? HP DC5700 small form factor computer.
[17:53:52] <Deejay> IchGuckLive?
[17:54:26] <Zaaarin> Single PCI slot?
[17:55:33] <Loetmichel> ahem...
[17:55:43] <Loetmichel> just noticed: that board has agp!
[17:55:56] <IchGuckLive> Deejay: sorry davef
[17:56:06] <Loetmichel> davef: you will have to buy or snatch an AGP card somewhere ;-)
[17:56:34] <davef> On www.hp.com paste this search in the search box to see all the specs of the computer
[17:56:48] <davef> HP Compaq dc5700 Small Form Factor PC - Overview
[17:57:03] <IchGuckLive> davef: http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_trksid=p2050601.m570.l1313&_nkw=ibm+a50&_sacat=0&_from=R40 There are no Fujitsus sold in the USA P5915 5925 there are mutch better and also 50USD
[17:57:14] <davef> Loetmichel: Not sure how many PCI slots
[17:57:16] <Loetmichel> davef: i take that back
[17:57:18] <Loetmichel> http://www.quantelectronic.de/Information/content15/HP%C3%9C5700%20SFF.htm
[17:57:22] <Loetmichel> it has pcie
[17:58:35] <Zaaarin> Suppores PCI-E and has two additional PCI slots, for a dedicated LinuxCNCrig I think that's a better buy
[17:58:38] <IchGuckLive> arend thee like here in Germany second IT stores around in main citis
[17:59:00] <davef> I'm getting information overload here... :) Can't keep up!
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[18:00:25] <davef> Loetmichel: Thanks for that last link! That helps a lot!
[18:01:29] <Loetmichel> de nada
[18:01:39] <davef> Loetmichel: Sorry, what's that about AGP? Is that accelerated graphics package?
[18:01:46] <Loetmichel> forget it
[18:01:59] <Loetmichel> i misread some information on the net about the box
[18:02:06] <davef> :)
[18:02:54] <davef> What about the dual core processor? Is that going to be a problem?
[18:03:14] <Zaaarin> AGP's basically dead, anything 512meg or higher gfx wise it's all PCI-E nowadays
[18:03:37] <Zaaarin> I'm still cross about VGA and IDE ports being phased out grrr
[18:04:31] <humble_sea_bass> order this man
[18:04:32] <humble_sea_bass> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128561
[18:04:47] <Zaaarin> Anyways, I got to go, thanks for all your help, I'll let you know how well my hunt for a suitable starter pinion from the scrapheap goes tomoz!!!
[18:04:49] <humble_sea_bass> vga, and parallel port
[18:04:49] <Zaaarin> NN guys
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[18:05:22] <davef> IchGuckLive: Will I have a problem with the dual core processor?
[18:05:24] <Loetmichel> humble_sea_bass: he already has ordered three of the HPs
[18:05:34] <humble_sea_bass> bummer
[18:05:36] <Loetmichel> davef: no
[18:06:04] <Loetmichel> if you use an up to date lifeCD wou will not
[18:06:20] <Loetmichel> my CNC PC at home is a c2d-3ghz
[18:06:30] <Loetmichel> ... in a VERY small box
[18:06:32] <Loetmichel> ;-)
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[18:06:50] <Loetmichel> (used an old 286 "pizzabox" as a case
[18:07:00] <IchGuckLive> Loetmichel: but you need to go frech install from 2.4x
[18:07:02] <davef> Hah.
[18:07:07] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=12265
[18:07:13] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=12250
[18:07:18] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=12247
[18:07:19] <Loetmichel> ;-)
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[18:08:09] <davef> Loetmichel: By up to date lifecnc you mean just run the latest version of linuxcnc, right? You're not saying to run emc from a CD ?
[18:08:25] <humble_sea_bass> i've been using ammo cans as cases. they can be had real cheap
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[18:08:37] <Loetmichel> i meant: use the latest linuxCNC life CD for installing the ubuntu
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[18:08:47] <Loetmichel> and then update the linuxCNC to at least 2.5
[18:08:49] <MarkusBec> I have a AMD FUSION dualcore
[18:08:54] <MarkusBec> it works fine
[18:09:08] <davef> OK, that's what I thought.
[18:09:10] <Loetmichel> humble_sea_bass: i have no vertical room under my CNC
[18:09:13] <davef> Oh Good.
[18:09:29] <Loetmichel> humble_sea_bass: http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=12569
[18:09:33] <Loetmichel> see the pizzabox?
[18:09:48] <humble_sea_bass> heh
[18:10:26] <MarkusBec> old atoms and old celerons are pita
[18:10:38] <davef> Anyway I got three puters for $200.00. Tired of having to re-do everything to set up a different box when I have a crash. This way I'll have two identical backup puters
[18:10:41] <humble_sea_bass> is that spray coolant
[18:10:55] <MarkusBec> tonns of interupfs from the BIos
[18:10:59] <Loetmichel> watercooling for the spindle ;-)
[18:11:52] <humble_sea_bass> is that as good as directly spraying the tool and workpiece
[18:11:56] <humble_sea_bass> certainly cleaner
[18:12:49] <Loetmichel> hmm?
[18:12:56] <Loetmichel> it isnt spraying
[18:12:58] <Loetmichel> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a9Ov69t0uwo
[18:13:23] <DaViruz> humble_sea_bass: it isn't cooling the tool/workpiece, it's cooling the spindle motor
[18:13:56] <humble_sea_bass> oh, those vfd motors generate a lot of heat?
[18:14:09] <Loetmichel> 800W max the small one
[18:14:39] <Loetmichel> but the watercooled ones are very quiet as you can hear in the video.
[18:14:44] <davef> Loetmichel: Is that mill your creation?
[18:14:49] <Loetmichel> yes
[18:15:05] <davef> Built from scratch?
[18:15:22] <Loetmichel> yes
[18:15:29] <davef> Wow.
[18:15:35] <davef> Nice
[18:17:49] <Loetmichel> its just a few sheets of 8mm aluminium, a few smoot rods, some ballbearings and some steppers and acme threads ;-)
[18:17:56] <Loetmichel> and a sack of screws ;-)
[18:18:54] <davef> LOL
[18:19:25] <davef> Yeah, just collect all that stuff, throw it in a pile, and there ya go.
[18:20:33] <Loetmichel> you forgot: "shake it well!"
[18:20:34] <Loetmichel> ;-)
[18:21:13] <DaViruz> shake, don't stir.
[18:22:01] <davef> Loetmichel: Pretty sure I have Ubuntu 10.4 on my HD Sure it's at least 8.04
[18:22:36] <Loetmichel> davef: if you want to mess around with building your own realtime kernel: use it
[18:22:54] <davef> Eh?
[18:22:58] <Loetmichel> otherwise i would reccomend to do a fresh install from the linuxCNC life CD
[18:23:21] <davef> OK, can you show me a link to download pls?
[18:24:09] <Loetmichel> http://www.linuxcnc.org/index.php/english/download
[18:24:16] <Loetmichel> ... obviously ;-)
[18:25:24] <davef> and then here? http://linuxcnc.org/index.php/english/download/21?task=view
[18:25:44] <davef> and DL the ISO?
[18:26:22] <archivist> get the iso then do the os updates
[18:26:39] <Loetmichel> you could have clicked the link on my link, but yes, that would work also
[18:27:34] <davef> Actually that's what I did.
[18:29:48] <davef> What I meant earlier is, I already had linuxcnc running on on my HD from the old computer. I believe when I installed that I got the one that came with linuxcnc and ubuntu all together on one cd so I'm thinking I have that all done already...
[18:30:12] <Loetmichel> no, you cliecked on "other installation options" instead of "download the iso"
[18:30:25] <Loetmichel> ... which is a direckt link to the iso
[18:30:26] <Loetmichel> ;-)
[18:30:33] <davef> Oh.
[18:31:10] <Loetmichel> i would still reccomend to use a fresh install on the HP boxes
[18:31:22] <brianmorel99> Does anyone have a recommendation for a Video card? I have an Intel 915G chipset motherboard and it's killing the latency test. i swiched to the fbdev which helped, but I'd like to keep the load off the cpu as much as possible.
[18:31:43] <Loetmichel> brianmorel99: any cheap fitting one will do
[18:31:47] <davef> bbl
[18:32:18] <brianmorel99> Any preference between AMD / Nvidia?
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[18:34:24] <Loetmichel> not that i know of
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[18:38:51] <davef> In the documentation wiki there's some old info - something about nvidia driver needing to be replaced with a different one
[18:39:07] <davef> I'm looking for it...
[18:39:26] <cradek> I have the best luck with old matrox cards (even those original pci ones)
[18:39:40] <cradek> then you avoid both amd and nvidia weirdnesses
[18:40:02] <IchGuckLive> matr is what im using 2 if it doesnnot work
[18:40:40] <IchGuckLive> AGP-Grafikkarte Matrox G450 Dualhead
[18:41:33] <cradek> yep those G5xx and millenium XX all work great
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[18:43:52] <davef> I bought a MATROX 844-00 Rev_A card, just plugged it in, and it worked fine on my HP.
[18:44:26] <davef> about 25-30 bucks at a used comp. store but new card.
[18:44:55] <PetefromTn> http://imagebin.org/296166 Well....Let the MODBUS games begin!!!
[18:45:02] <davef> card says copyright 1998 lol
[18:45:56] <cradek> it was a good year
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[18:46:57] <davef> Hey Cradek.
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[18:50:04] <davef> My old HD is a EIDE and the new boxes have SATA drives. Otherwise I'd try to just plug the old drive into the new puter and go. But is there any simple way to make an image of the old drive on the new SATA drive?
[18:50:49] <cradek> nope, not particularly easy
[18:51:21] <cradek> easiest to just install and copy over your old config directory.
[18:51:35] <davef> OK, fresh install then, and transfer all my configs and code via a flash drive I guess.
[18:51:41] <cradek> there you go
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[18:53:48] <davef> Just to be sure- This is what I want, yes? ubuntu-10.04-linuxcnc3-i386.iso
[18:54:47] <davef> The latest LinuxCNC Live version - based on Ubuntu 10.04 Lucid Lynx LTS LiveCD (2012 - April)
[18:54:48] <cradek> yep
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[18:56:30] <davef> Thanks! Now I just have GOT to figure out how to keep metal dust and swarf out of my puters! This makes about 5 fried over the sevaral years I've been doing cnc
[18:59:36] <cradek> just putting them higher helps
[19:03:20] <davef> Worst is fine dust from wire wheel. It floats all over the darn place.
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[19:06:44] <davef> I'm thinking about building a wood box with a ventilator fan blowing out, and a whole house hypoalergenic furnace filter on the top, sealed.
[19:08:00] <Loetmichel> davef: chicken!
[19:08:33] <davef> Tired of the computer fan sucking everthing it can grab into the puter.
[19:08:34] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=735
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[19:08:40] <Loetmichel> yes, thats aluminium...
[19:08:51] <Loetmichel> just ignore it ;-)
[19:09:28] <davef> yup, benn there done that. Five blown MB's later... I want a clean puter.
[19:09:36] <Loetmichel> hrhr
[19:09:42] <Loetmichel> so do as i do at the company
[19:10:02] <davef> whats that
[19:10:09] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=13447
[19:10:22] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=13450
[19:10:26] <Loetmichel> front filter
[19:10:33] <Loetmichel> changeable from the outside ;-)
[19:11:51] <davef> Whats that, open cell foam?
[19:12:51] <davef> What about air getting in from the back, etc. I'm talkin really fine dust.
[19:13:06] <Loetmichel> inside the aluminium frame is a sheet of these "kitchen cooker hood" stuff
[19:13:21] <Loetmichel> there is no air going in from the back
[19:13:31] <Loetmichel> behind that filter tehre is a big 150mm fan
[19:13:35] <Loetmichel> pressing air in
[19:13:40] <Loetmichel> filtered air
[19:14:10] <Loetmichel> as long as the case has slight overpressure from that fan any other opening will let air out, not in ;-)
[19:14:17] <Loetmichel> just aerodynamics ;-)
[19:14:46] <davef> Davef does his best Homer Simpson...
[19:14:51] <davef> DOH!
[19:14:58] <Loetmichel> hrhr
[19:15:15] <davef> :)
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[19:15:35] <Loetmichel> my company makes shielded military PCs
[19:16:17] <Loetmichel> so the get sealed by these "warranty void" type stickers after we measure them to comply with SDIP27
[19:16:29] <Loetmichel> so the customer cant "drust off" the insides
[19:16:37] <Loetmichel> thats the reason for the dust filters
[19:16:54] <davef> Ah. In that case I'll definitely take advice from the voice of experience.
[19:17:39] <Loetmichel> and the big fan inside ;-)
[19:18:25] <Loetmichel> we have made trials: in a normal office you have to change the filters about every 6 months
[19:18:40] <Loetmichel> in afghanistan in the desert: every 7 days ;-)
[19:19:12] <davef> Very good system. I have an old bathroom exhaust fan. I might try basically the same thing but with the filtered fan on the outside of the box. These small form factor jobs are probbaly giong to be pretty packed.
[19:19:16] <Loetmichel> you dont belive what amount of desert sand a normal PC can eat.
[19:19:16] <davef> Hah.
[19:19:31] <Loetmichel> got some back from the army (repair)
[19:19:35] <davef> Oh, I can imagine.
[19:19:57] <Loetmichel> ... first i poured ut about a cup full of sand ;.-)
[19:20:07] <davef> Wow
[19:20:22] <Loetmichel> THEN i blown it out with compressd air
[19:20:27] <Loetmichel> and THEN i repaired it ;-)
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[19:20:30] <IchGuckLive> im off BY
[19:20:32] <Loetmichel> every time ;-)
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[19:20:41] <davef> Good thing it's not conductive.
[19:20:46] <Loetmichel> hrhr
[19:21:24] <Loetmichel> i've seen laptops that operated on emergency (casing) cooling because both fans were FILLED with sand
[19:21:33] <Loetmichel> literally FULL
[19:21:33] <davef> BTW, speaking of fans, Don't try this at home...
[19:21:54] <Loetmichel> the compresed air?
[19:21:59] <Loetmichel> no problem
[19:22:09] <Loetmichel> just lock it so it cant over-rpm ;)
[19:22:36] <davef> I once blew air from my compressor into my power supply, spinning the cooling fan at a bizillion RPM, fried the whole puter PS a,d all.
[19:22:47] <Loetmichel> ouch
[19:23:10] <davef> Loetmichel: Good guess.
[19:24:09] <Loetmichel> i've made 80mm computer fans literally EXPLODE with a compressed air gun
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[19:24:32] <Loetmichel> the desintegrate at about 50krpm (from the sound of it) ;-)
[19:24:40] <Loetmichel> ... on pourpose of course ;-)
[19:25:07] <davef> Yipes!
[19:25:12] <Loetmichel> yes, i am a little careless sometimes.
[19:25:21] <davef> Hey I really appreciate your help today.
[19:25:29] <Loetmichel> my apprentice made a pic seeing me working....
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[19:25:50] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=12244
[19:26:03] <gonzo__> it's fun to see how fast you can get bearings to go when you are blowing the crape out with an airline
[19:26:11] <gonzo__> sound like a jet engine
[19:26:15] <Loetmichel> ... saying "that will go to my teacher in school. for the "how NOT to do it" Board" ;-)
[19:26:22] <Tom_itx> wait til they sieze up
[19:26:45] <gonzo__> wouldn't do it with ones that were nit on their way to the bin
[19:26:59] <Loetmichel> ... he still helped me extinguishing the trashcan under the workbench afterwards
[19:27:07] <davef> LOL
[19:27:17] <Loetmichel> ... with the fres used paper cloth soaked with ethanol in at ;-)
[19:27:25] <Loetmichel> in it
[19:28:02] <davef> Sure it was just the paper soaked in ethanol Loetmichel ?
[19:28:08] <Loetmichel> it was
[19:28:09] <davef> :)
[19:28:24] <Loetmichel> i used it to clean the sharpie marks off the steel sheet
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[19:28:27] <Loetmichel> ;-)
[19:28:41] <davef> Not the operator maybe?
[19:28:54] <Loetmichel> no, thats my normal mode of operation
[19:29:03] <Loetmichel> out of hands, otu of mind ;-)
[19:29:05] <davef> Too funny
[19:29:05] <Loetmichel> out
[19:29:35] <davef> Hey, got to go. Thanks so much.
[19:29:53] <Loetmichel> de nada
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[19:49:11] <MrSunshine> hmm working with sheet goods isnt at all fun :P
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[20:09:50] <JT-Shop> pcw_home, looks like they might be Nema 34 and the power supply is a toroidal with 45v and 9amp secondary
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[21:59:34] <Deejay> gn8
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[23:00:10] <PetefromTn> Hey guys got a question, I recently updated to the newest master a couple days ago and today I was trying to load some new tools into the tool table.
[23:00:37] <PetefromTn> The table seems to finally be accessible from the axis UI at any time now which is nice however
[23:01:11] <PetefromTn> I loaded a tool and using my G59.3 tool touch off position I jogged down to the 123 block like I have been doing which works well.
[23:01:33] <PetefromTn> When I touch off to tool table with the new tool the offset is loaded and appears correct.
[23:03:05] <PetefromTn> However I noticed that my tool 1 touch off tool in the table which has an offset of zero does not show a number in the G-edit table nor in the Tool editor in axis. It just shows nothing. Is this normal or is there no offset loaded?
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[23:35:41] <JT-Shop> PetefromTn, your question is confusing... can you break the last part up into individual questions?
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