#linuxcnc | Logs for 2014-01-09

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[00:35:12] <CaptHindsight> http://www.3ders.org/articles/20140108-new-owl-nano-desktop-sl-3d-printer-achieves-100-nanometer-resolution-says-its-creators.html 100nm resolution, no misleading marketing claims there :)
[00:36:28] <andypugh> "but they haven't shown any prints yet" Well, why the heck not?
[00:36:59] <CaptHindsight> the catch is all the prints are only 100nm x 100nm
[00:37:13] <CaptHindsight> they can't find them when they are done
[00:37:55] <Valen> could well have that resolution
[00:37:58] <Valen> +-4mm
[00:38:04] <CaptHindsight> hehe
[00:38:39] <Valen> STL printers are pretty good for that really
[00:38:40] <CaptHindsight> you can do that with 2 photon and e-beam, but they aren't
[00:39:22] <Valen> heh yeah now you mention it that is IC scale stuff
[00:39:59] <Valen> lol they could print a CD
[00:40:04] <Valen> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/100_nanometres
[00:40:19] <WalterN> alright
[00:40:30] <WalterN> I wonder how bad I can crash the machine
[00:40:30] <Valen> oh duh, i was off by an order of magnitude
[00:40:42] <Valen> I was thinking um
[00:40:58] <andypugh> I used to design machines for measuring the force needed to wipe tracks off ICs. We didn't use any special leadscrews, just a spring and optical feedback (operator with a microscope). Worked well.
[00:41:23] <WalterN> I should probably cut the softjaws off so they dont stick out as much
[00:42:01] <Valen> they couldn't possibly have that resolution, the wavelength of light is bigger
[00:42:08] <Valen> well no thats wrong
[00:42:25] <Valen> they could have that resolution, but their feature size would be at least 4x the size
[00:42:41] <andypugh> Yes, sorry, I read the "IC scale" part and glossed over the actual number
[00:43:52] <Valen> in 2000 they were making IC's at 130nm
[00:44:10] <Valen> IE these guys could 3d print a 1:1 scale model of a pentium 3 ;->
[00:44:41] <andypugh> I am currently blaming the journalists
[00:44:58] <Valen> blame the lawyers and marketing people too
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[00:56:02] <CaptHindsight> they claim that it can focus on an area as small as 100nm
[00:56:07] <CaptHindsight> pure BS
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[00:56:46] <CaptHindsight> unless by focus they mean a spot size of ~100um on an area 100x100nm
[00:57:15] <CaptHindsight> I can hit a spot of 100nmx100nm with my fist as well :)
[00:57:45] <andypugh> I used to hit a 10nm spot. But I was using electrons.
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[00:59:02] <andypugh> ( http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/BF00351428 )
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[01:07:01] <Valen> andypugh: have you heard our government is going to stop rolling out a fibre to the home national network in favour of saving a year and a half and spending the same amount of money to do fibre to the node
[01:09:21] <andypugh> Is this like the argument that if you have a computationally intensive PhD project then Moore's law means that you should spend 2.5 years on a beach in the Bahamas, buy the fastest possible machine with the money that is left, and finish the same project in the last 6 months?
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[01:10:49] <Valen> no, because that actually makes sense
[01:13:27] <eric_unterhausen> is it a requirement that anyone that builds their own 3d printer have a kickstarter?
[01:13:38] <eric_unterhausen> because I don't want to
[01:13:54] <andypugh> Sorry, it's the rules
[01:13:57] <Tom_itx> don't admit it if you do
[01:14:31] <andypugh> I wonder if I should Kickstarter my CNC boring head?
[01:15:14] <andypugh> There must be almost a dozen people out there who would want one
[01:16:02] <eric_unterhausen> that almost sounds like it might be too successful
[01:16:36] <eric_unterhausen> are you ready for $300000 to fall into your lap?
[01:16:37] <andypugh> The three Kickstarters I have subscribed to have all made about 100x their goald
[01:16:39] <Valen> this is spending $43Bn vs $44Bn and then you need to replace it as soon as its done basically asshats
[01:16:56] <eric_unterhausen> how many are failures?
[01:18:33] <eric_unterhausen> what's the preferred link shortener here?
[01:18:53] <andypugh> I am trying to compile a Xenomai kernel on the first one now. I am waiting for the others. One is just silly: http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/920064946/oscilloscope-watch
[01:19:02] <eric_unterhausen> http://goo.gl/B7cLH2
[01:20:32] <andypugh> Deltas do have a lot going for them
[01:21:20] <eric_unterhausen> all you have to do is thread the fishing line
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[01:23:17] <eric_unterhausen> I was reading about one of the maker faires a year ago that the 3d printer companies had their own pavilion
[01:23:27] <eric_unterhausen> it's a very crowded business
[01:26:09] <andypugh> http://www.amazon.com/Rule-34-Halting-State-Book/dp/1937007669/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1389230739&sr=8-1&keywords=Rule+34
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[01:26:24] <andypugh> Is a book largely set in a world of ubiquitous 3D-printing.
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[01:27:06] <Valen> sounds interesting
[01:27:09] <Valen> you read it?
[01:27:20] <andypugh> (It's also a book, and an author I highly recommend)
[01:27:29] <uw> isnt rule 34 a 4chan thing?
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[01:27:42] <Valen> xkcd i believe
[01:27:55] <andypugh> Yes, I read his books the moment they are published. A friend reads them before they are published.
[01:28:09] <uw> http://rule34.paheal.net/
[01:28:37] <uw> oh maybe xkcd did it first
[01:30:23] <andypugh> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rule_34_(Internet_meme)
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[01:39:14] <Valen> hmmm, dunno, i'm really sensitive to the "person"age of a book
[01:39:22] <Valen> i hate anything other than 3rd person ;->
[01:40:11] <andypugh> I think that is 3rd-person
[01:40:43] <Valen> I was just reading other reviews of his other books
[01:40:56] <andypugh> I am trying to recall the second-person book I read recently... Ah, yes, Tom Robbins "Half Asleep In Frog Pyjamas"
[01:41:34] <jdh> I like Robbins
[01:43:02] <andypugh> Yes, I consider Jitterbug Perfume to be one of the best things I have read.
[01:43:49] <andypugh> Though the very best is Stevenson's "System of the World" trilogy, albeit rather slow.
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[01:45:17] <andypugh> I have only failed to finish two books, "Dhalgren" (got hallf way, was having no fun) and "Ghormengast". With 3 pages to go to the end of the 3rd book I realised it was too late for anything to happen.
[01:45:21] <jdh> I rarely don't finish books, but the first one was an exception
[01:45:36] <jdh> (quicksilver)
[01:45:50] <andypugh> Try again. Really.
[01:46:20] <andypugh> Did you get to the point that Jack and Eliza turn up?
[01:46:35] <andypugh> They lighten the mood no end
[01:46:36] <jdh> doesn't ring any bells, but it's been like 10 years
[01:47:13] <andypugh> I keep wondering if there are different editions.
[01:47:36] <andypugh> Because nobody else seems to find them, and I am sure they are not that far in,
[01:47:45] <Valen> I like the old hard sci-fi
[01:47:50] <Valen> hal clement is good
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[01:48:13] <andypugh> Jack is the young lad who made extra pocket money by grabbing the legs of hangings. Did you get that far?
[01:48:39] <jdh> don't think so.
[01:48:57] <jdh> I read it after crypto... couldn't take it.
[01:49:01] <jdh> s/read/started it/
[01:49:03] <andypugh> Quicksilver is _very_ old SciFi. The scientists are Newton and Leibnitz :-)
[01:49:30] <Valen> lol i mean stuff written in the 60s and such, when people were building rockets
[01:50:32] <andypugh> Well, I think you should try Quicksilver again, but accepting that it is slow, bit worth it. :-)
[01:51:40] <jdh> I got an amazon gift thingie from work. I could buy a book, or tooling.
[01:53:01] <ChuangTzu> an expensive book, or a cheap tool?
[01:53:05] <ChuangTzu> :S
[01:53:19] <jdh> $5.69 for the kindle version, I could do both.
[01:54:58] <jdh> I seem to have an .epub version on my disk.
[01:58:45] <jdh> my daughter is taking a solidworks class this semester, maybe she can teach me.
[01:59:04] <Valen> props for having a daughter doing that ;->
[02:00:02] <jdh> she always amazes me
[02:00:45] <andypugh> Is she rich and gullible too?
[02:01:14] <jdh> neither
[02:01:34] <jdh> she's smarter than me, but I still know more than her (for now)
[02:01:41] <andypugh> And I am probably twice her age too. Or more.
[02:01:55] <jdh> she's 17 you perv
[02:02:54] <andypugh> In my defence, there was no such thing as Solidowrks when I was that age.
[02:03:00] <Valen> i don't know what it is, but most of the women in engineering are lookers too so +1 for perving
[02:03:14] <jdh> there wasn't much in the way of computers when I was that age.
[02:03:47] <eric_unterhausen> I should teach my daughter how to use solidworks
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[02:05:22] <Valen> I use rhino, its simple and actually affordable
[02:05:33] <andypugh> I had already sold a commercial program when I was 17.
[02:06:09] <Valen> I wrote and managed the "magic software" for an office about that age
[02:06:32] <jdh> you kids and your computers.
[02:06:56] <andypugh> (because, back then, a 14 year-old could lock themselves away for a few months and produce something impressive.
[02:07:06] <Valen> saved the sales reps about an hour and a half each per day
[02:07:34] <jdh> we got a Wang(tm) and a TRS-80 Model 1 when I was a Jr in high school
[02:08:47] <Valen> visual basic and mysql ftw ;->
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[02:15:58] <andypugh> Pah! ZX80 programmed in pure hex FTW
[02:16:15] <jdh> I sometimes wish I could get enthused about writing code again, but it seems so tedious now and my attention span has dropped to almost nothing.
[02:16:21] <andypugh> (I hadn't heard of assemblers)
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[02:20:01] <andypugh> Mwhaha! What could possibly go wrong? https://plus.google.com/photos/108164504656404380542/albums/5966714171391240545
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[02:23:08] <skunkworks> heh
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[02:23:58] <andypugh> In reality I was just messsing about with the label printer :-)
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[02:24:36] <andypugh> I should probably have put some fun plugs on the end. Lemo 00 and BS mains plug?
[02:26:00] <syyl--> like the famous 1" waterpipe to single phase/230V adapter?
[02:26:17] <andypugh> Or the LART?
[02:27:01] <eric_unterhausen> my mother once climbed a steel ladder in a waterfall in a cave, at the top there was a sign that said the wire right next to the ladder was 25000 volts
[02:27:08] <syyl--> i just had to look up that, andypugh
[02:27:09] <syyl--> ;)
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[02:27:37] <andypugh> Ah, I seem to have my BOFH mixed up, I think I mean Etherkiller: http://etherkiller.org/img/etherkiller.jpg
[02:27:45] <syyl--> ah
[02:27:47] <syyl--> thats common
[02:27:56] <syyl--> also availble in 3phase / 400V
[02:27:56] <syyl--> ;)
[02:28:08] <eric_unterhausen> lart pocket reference
[02:28:18] <Valen> probably wouldn't do anything any favours
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[02:28:36] <Valen> i saw the flux capacitor one, what was the other end?
[02:28:56] <andypugh> eric_unterhausen: Well, no reason to believe that the 25kV would preferentially flow through your mother than the waterfall, ladder or cave.
[02:29:16] <eric_unterhausen> duckduckgo just got a lot more useful to me, I saw the drop-down menu that allows you to do the search on google images
[02:29:35] <eric_unterhausen> andy: ya, good thing about voltages is that you need two before it's dangerous
[02:29:53] <eric_unterhausen> in that sense, ground is just as dangerous as 25000 volts
[02:29:56] <andypugh> Or you can do the search directly on Google images
[02:29:59] <Jymmm> $25,000 but damn cool... http://trucktracks.com/en/media/action-videos/
[02:30:08] <skunkworks> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interocitor
[02:30:21] <eric_unterhausen> I like duckduckgo, they don't act as my own personal stalker
[02:31:01] <eric_unterhausen> when the transaxle on my toyota blew up, I all of a sudden started getting toyota ads because I searched for it on google
[02:31:32] <tjtr33> i have chips labeled ST M27C2001, I have to burn for Heidenhain CNC.
[02:31:33] <tjtr33> The programmer tells me they are AMD 27C202 (02h 01h). They program and verify ok. has anyone ever had chips labeled wrong ( 12pc with very std white stenciled marks )
[02:32:11] <Tom_itx> maybe it's an inhouse number
[02:32:34] <andypugh> Jymmm: This is better: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zBjlSJf4274
[02:32:59] <syyl--> and if you order one, you get a nice hat with it
[02:33:29] <tjtr33> dunno, i've done a lot of these and they are the 'standard' look, text, placement, white on grey-brown ceramic
[02:34:19] <Jymmm> andypugh: looks like more fun too
[02:34:38] <andypugh> Well, colder at least, and no radio
[02:35:00] <Valen> tjtr33: https://www.sparkfun.com/news/395
[02:35:22] <andypugh> 02:50 Horsey no like
[02:35:29] <tjtr33> Tom_itx, would you attempt to put them into a machine & boot ( cuz they verify even after reboot ) or chuck em?
[02:35:55] <tjtr33> Valen, wow, acid reverse engineering
[02:36:48] <Tom_itx> tjtr33 did they come out of the machine?
[02:36:53] <Tom_itx> i'd try them if they did
[02:36:58] <ChuangTzu> haha, that turning radius part
[02:37:01] <tjtr33> Tom_itx, ebay :(
[02:37:03] <ChuangTzu> looks like he's having a blast
[02:37:21] <tjtr33> Tom_itx, very new, legs clean & splayed
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[02:37:53] <tjtr33> i never ran into this before and gotta drive 650miles to try em out :(
[02:37:57] <andypugh> tjtr33: I would use them. I wouldn't sell them.
[02:38:18] <tjtr33> ah good thinking, thx i'll order new and delay the visit, thx
[02:44:19] <eric_unterhausen> so I assume there are companies in China that will supply you any chip you are looking for as long as you don't care what's inside?
[02:46:37] <Tom_itx> eric_unterhausen, what would you like to buy? https://www.google.com/search?q=shenzhen+market&client=firefox-a&hs=Yam&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&tbm=isch&source=iu&imgil=SC2uGopbQ5cu-M%253A%253Bhttps%253A%252F%252Fencrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com%252Fimages%253Fq%253Dtbn%253AANd9GcTju0HSyqxh6G9BD9AqAnCQgj8V8F8e01C4mMFtKdGjpdGF5nJA5g%253B600%253B400%253BVZv6yChxH66ZjM%253Bhttp%25253A%25252F%25252Fdangerousprototypes.com%25252Fdocs%25252FDangerous_P
[02:46:48] <Tom_itx> wow sry about the long link
[02:47:04] <eric_unterhausen> Tom, I was talking about the sparkfun link above
[02:47:17] <eric_unterhausen> they wanted 7000 atmegas, and got fakes
[02:47:19] <Tom_itx> i've seen the copper slugs before
[02:47:38] <eric_unterhausen> my question is did the supplier just run out and produce the fakes as a special order?
[02:48:55] <skunkworks> is it a fake if it is something totally different? why go to the trouble. that just seems odd. why not just make some with nothing inside.
[02:49:17] <Tom_itx> skunkworks, they've done that too
[02:49:18] <eric_unterhausen> I thought they got them surplus
[02:50:47] <eric_unterhausen> I re-read, the chips were engineering units
[02:51:06] <eric_unterhausen> they probably got them for scrap price, i.e. a few cents
[02:52:04] <andypugh> Right, so made ahead of production for testing assembly lines?
[02:52:50] <andypugh> Rather like the 2015 Mondeo I have been driving since 2012.
[02:53:18] <eric_unterhausen> I would rather have a pre-production chip than a pre-production car
[02:53:33] <jdh> not for free
[02:53:42] <andypugh> Well, it sounds like the car actually works, and the chip doesn't?
[02:54:06] <eric_unterhausen> the chip probably did work if you knew which chip it was
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[02:55:21] <andypugh> I was assuming they were the carrier-only slugs that Tom_itx mentioned. That was probably an over-assumption.
[02:56:10] <Tom_itx> eric_unterhausen i didn't click but the pics i saw would definitely not work
[02:56:27] <eric_unterhausen> that was after they tore the top off?
[02:56:41] <Tom_itx> yeah
[02:56:55] <eric_unterhausen> well, they bought 7000 more that didn't have the top torn off
[02:58:00] <eric_unterhausen> actually, they sold them all, I have no idea how much they charged
[02:58:23] <andypugh> No reason to take the top off: http://www.nordson.com/EN-US/DIVISIONS/DAGE/PRODUCTS/EXAMPLEPRODUCTFAMILY/Pages/SpecialInvitation.aspx
[02:58:31] <andypugh> You can see inside nowadays
[02:58:51] <andypugh> (I helped design the X-ray tue for that)
[02:58:54] <andypugh> (tube)
[02:58:58] <eric_unterhausen> nice
[02:59:14] <eric_unterhausen> but I think the copper heatsink would screw it up pretty well
[02:59:34] <andypugh> Not at 160kV
[02:59:47] <andypugh> Those are _hard_ X-ray machines
[03:00:34] <tjtr33> is there a min order at Hamilton Avnet ( i doubt i
[03:00:41] <tjtr33> 'd get fakes there )
[03:01:11] <eric_unterhausen> most of the big distributors have service charges to discourage small orders
[03:01:21] <eric_unterhausen> but afaik, they will take the order
[03:01:23] <andypugh> I seem to recall calculating that if you climbed into that X-ray machine and turned the beam on then there would be no saving you in less than a minute
[03:05:37] <eric_unterhausen> that's interesting, see everyone else is going to lower power xrays
[03:06:14] <andypugh> Why would you?
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[03:07:24] <eric_unterhausen> so you don't kill the patient in less than 1 minute
[03:08:00] <andypugh> You meant everyone else outside electronic component testing?
[03:08:53] <eric_unterhausen> I would guess there are some other people that want horribly powerful xrays
[03:08:59] <andypugh> This is a slightly boring video, but does explain what the systems can do: http://www.nordson.com/en-us/divisions/dage/products/PublishingImages/X-Plane%20Introduction.wmv
[03:10:47] <andypugh> It's basically a CT scan of a PCB
[03:12:17] <andypugh> pretty pictures start at 07:30 in the video
[03:12:36] <Tom_itx> does it affect the chips?
[03:12:42] <andypugh> Not at all
[03:13:47] <Tom_itx> hrm. i was gonna start reading up on classic ladder but i can see that isn't gonna happen tonight
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[03:16:34] <skunkworks> Tom_itx: it isn't bad... It takes a bit to get used to the gui - you really just need to play with it.
[03:17:07] <Tom_itx> well i was gonna try to convert some of my pendant code
[03:17:14] <Tom_itx> see if it works better in ladder
[03:17:20] <jdh> Can't be any worse than the GE Series Six I had to touch today.
[03:18:24] <Tom_itx> what do you run to start the gui?
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[07:47:09] <Deejay> moin
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[08:32:20] <anonimasu> it sounds good, just like the plan i had to use the 8i20 for retrofitting another machine with the analog/smart amplifier board.
[08:32:24] <anonimasu> :S
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[14:09:18] <JT-Shop> wow 55F in the shop this morning
[14:09:44] <archivist> turn the heating down
[14:10:39] <Err> heh, that's not the response I would have expected :-)
[14:11:14] <archivist> its warmer than in here :)
[14:11:39] <Err> it's about 60F in my office today, but I have a space heater running under my desk - so my immediate location is nearly-room-temp
[14:12:20] <JT-Shop> no heat in the shop except for fire
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[14:13:13] <Err> hopefully an intentional one!
[14:14:45] <archivist> I was taught fire gave off heat :)
[14:15:00] <Deejay> fire burns oxygen
[14:17:18] <JT-Shop> yea, I had to run both the wood stove in the shop and the wood heater in the garage for the last 3 days... burned a lot of wood
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[14:21:55] <R2E4> IS there a code in gcode for conveyor? I have a worm screw type conveyor under table to remove chips. I'm wondering should I use just a button to turn it on or run it concurrently with the coolant.
[14:22:58] <archivist> you could add a delay so it runs a bit longer when the coolant gets switched off
[14:24:32] <R2E4> USe a seperate relay, have it turn on when the coolant is ruuning then when coolant gets turned off delay then de-energize relay?
[14:26:48] <archivist> something like that
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[14:28:45] <jthornton> R2E4, use classicladder to run it. you can base the run time on when the machine is in motion
[14:31:03] <R2E4> ok, havent start climbing the ladder yet, but will fill I/O spreadsheet with the output, and note it for ClassicLadder
[14:31:49] <jthornton> when you get there holler and I can give you an example
[14:32:42] <R2E4> If I put logic in for it, and I have a pushbutton toggle, if it is running and the logic for the toggle is not set and I hit the PB, will it stop the conveyor?
[14:33:52] <jdh> if you do it in ladder, you can have it do whatever you want.
[14:33:53] <R2E4> Maybe I am not clear, IF I put it in the ladder and run it automatically, if I want to stop it with a toggle PB, will it stop it? another words, will it know the output is on and toggle it off?
[14:34:30] <archivist> if you put the right logic it will do what you want
[14:34:36] <jthornton> yes, you can have a permissive contact in your rung that must be on to actually give you an output
[14:34:44] <R2E4> Just have a pushbutton in the hAL and I can contol it in the ladder logic?
[14:34:53] <R2E4> ok cool.
[14:35:33] <R2E4> This is getting wuite complex
[14:35:34] <jthornton> yes, a on/off input would make more sense ie. on is enabled and off is disabled
[14:36:22] <jthornton> what you need to do is write down in words what you want the output to do then translate that to ladder
[14:36:26] <R2E4> My mind is running but my body is still crawling.
[14:36:58] <jthornton> for example if input 1 is on and timer 1 has ran for 5 minutes run convayer for 5 minutes then reset timer
[14:37:14] <jdh> or wire it up like you want with relay logic then translate that to ladder
[14:37:32] <R2E4> yeah, I cant wait to get to the ladder stuff.
[14:38:03] <R2E4> I have done some plc stuff with designing large interlocks for doors etc....... fun stuff.
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[14:45:45] <R2E4> The existing controller has a PLC board with relays, ins and outs. No logic on the board just relays. Should I try and use this board or all new relays? Obviously using existing relays would be ideal. http://irmtl.com/LinuxCNC/VM40/PLC/IMG_0395.JPG
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[14:46:52] <R2E4> http://irmtl.com/LinuxCNC/VM40/PLC/IMG_0388.JPG http://irmtl.com/LinuxCNC/VM40/PLC/IMG_0410.JPG
[14:47:31] <cradek> do you have schematics?
[14:47:46] <R2E4> yes,
[14:47:54] <cradek> you sure might be able to reuse it
[14:48:17] <cradek> or you could replace it with some nice opto22 stuff
[14:48:34] <R2E4> Nice expensive opto22 stuff....hehe'
[14:48:54] <cradek> it only takes a bit of luck to come across it cheaply
[14:49:00] <cradek> on ebay, etc.
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[14:57:11] <R2E4> These would be nice. din rail mounted NPN's termnals..... http://www.ebay.com/itm/DIN-Rail-Mount-16-SPDT-Power-Relay-Interface-Module-OMRON-10A-Relay-24V-Coil-/131088093647?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1e857591cf
[14:59:24] <archivist> I would be tempted just to drive the current relays as that could mean so much less wiring
[14:59:47] <cradek> yeah, definitely
[15:00:28] <cradek> except I like opto22 with its little LEDs much better than mechanical relays
[15:00:30] <R2E4> well yes and no, there are the ribon cables, that I would have to breakout.
[15:00:33] <archivist> less wiring diagram to make too
[15:00:50] <cradek> if you're lucky you can plug the ribbons right into your mesa card
[15:00:58] <cradek> study schematics before you cut anything
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[15:01:31] <cradek> (the mesa and opto22 ribbon pinouts match - you just plug them in)
[15:01:38] <archivist> I think he has a mix of 12v and 24v relays iirc
[15:01:53] <archivist> choices
[15:02:01] <cradek> it must have optos to run the relays?
[15:02:13] <archivist> no idea
[15:02:23] <cradek> schematics!
[15:02:36] <archivist> he has them
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[15:02:40] <R2E4> All the relays on that board are 24vdc
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[15:04:21] <archivist> I would like to do a machine like that one day
[15:04:23] <R2E4> I have no hard plan yet. I am basically all over the place at the moment. I'm not going to do any cutting or anything until I understand LinuxCNC much better. Then I'll create a project plan
[15:05:07] <R2E4> heres the control cabinet
[15:05:10] <R2E4> http://irmtl.com/LinuxCNC/VM40/Control%20Cabinbet/cab1.JPG
[15:05:46] <ries> R2E4: are you building a rocket launcher?? :D
[15:06:56] <R2E4> ries: no, a 16" gun. This injects the shells. http://irmtl.com/LinuxCNC/VM40/IMG_0412.JPG
[15:08:19] <archivist> I have a spare 5" shell for use http://www.collection.archivist.info/archive/DJCPD/PD/2006/2006_11_24_Shell/PB242767.JPG
[15:08:42] <R2E4> Here's the ATC: http://irmtl.com/LinuxCNC/VM40/ATC/IMG_0411.JPG http://irmtl.com/LinuxCNC/VM40/ATC/IMG_0416.JPG
[15:08:54] <jdh> nice timer/fuze!
[15:09:30] <archivist> WW1
[15:09:35] <R2E4> We had 5" guns on the ship I was on.
[15:10:13] <R2E4> I seen the big mama's on the battleship, forget which one, but damn they were big
[15:10:44] <jdh> I got some 3" shells from a WW2 wreck. Some Hi-E with TNT heads and timers.
[15:11:54] <R2E4> http://irmtl.com/LinuxCNC/VM40/IMG_0413.JPG
[15:12:36] <R2E4> Hydraulics, air, This thing has everything. I will have no hair when I am done. I dont have much now.
[15:12:43] <archivist> I see the pretty tinware only partly covers the muscle
[15:14:56] <R2E4> http://irmtl.com/LinuxCNC/VM40/IMG_0406.JPG
[15:20:16] <TekniQue> hey, a VFD question for everybody
[15:20:43] <TekniQue> I have a chinese 3 phase VFD and am planning to run a 3 phase Y motor with it
[15:21:10] <jdh> Wye would you do that.
[15:21:19] <TekniQue> the VFD has no neutral connection, neither on the supply side nor the motor connection side
[15:21:22] <TekniQue> jdh: haha
[15:21:47] <TekniQue> I'm wondering if I should connect a neutral to the star point of the motor or not
[15:21:51] <TekniQue> I'm thinking not
[15:21:59] <Loetmichel> TekniQue: not necessary
[15:22:17] <TekniQue> yeah it shouldn't be
[15:22:48] <Loetmichel> and perhaps not good for the FU
[15:22:59] <Loetmichel> aehm... s/FU/VFD
[15:23:32] <Loetmichel> because the "star pint " generated by PWMed dc ist necesssatily identical to a real star point
[15:23:45] <TekniQue> but when I was in university I remember from a class about electric power drives that some VFD installations used a big fat neutral connection
[15:24:19] <TekniQue> because more current was passed down the neutal wire than was on the phase connections up to the VFD
[15:24:43] <TekniQue> but of course, not all VFDs are created equal
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[15:32:31] <archivist> if there is more current down the neutral something is not right/ not balanced between phases
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[15:38:42] <TekniQue> archivist: it would be a power factor problem the way I see it
[15:40:11] <archivist> I dont remember seeing the star point wired to neutral
[15:40:39] <TekniQue> indeed
[15:40:55] <TekniQue> it's just been a long time since I did any work with 3 phase
[15:41:20] <archivist> I have modded a few to delta for use with VFDs
[15:42:18] <archivist> fun picking the wrapping apart and getting it safe again after modifying
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[15:43:51] <TekniQue> I'm helping build a machine to wash glass bottles
[15:44:02] <TekniQue> in a bottling line
[15:44:34] <jdh> havent' people been doing that for 100 years?
[15:44:59] <archivist> still need new machines
[15:45:30] <archivist> each product has its own bottle size to make things difficult
[15:45:38] <TekniQue> we're replacing a machine that was too slow
[15:45:47] <jdh> I toured a CocaCola bottling plant in 1970 that had used bottles coming in one side and cases of 6-packs coming out the back
[15:46:37] <jdh> it was fast and loud
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[15:47:14] <CaptHindsight> the neutrals in wye circuits can carry lots of current due to harmonics
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[15:47:36] <archivist> although I worked at a local brewery for a period I missed out on seeing the bottling plant
[15:47:58] <CaptHindsight> the harmonics are generated by non-linear loads such as switching power supplies
[15:48:21] <TekniQue> CaptHindsight: that's right
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[15:49:02] <CaptHindsight> that is why you'll see the requirements for larger neutrals to be used in electrical codes on circuits supplying power to things like data centers
[15:49:18] <TekniQue> I remember being told that in some VFD installations, they used a thicker neutral wire than they used for the phases
[15:49:47] <TekniQue> and that would be due to weird current draws (bad power factor)
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[15:57:14] <CaptHindsight> http://www.ecmag.com/section/codes-standards/sizing near the end
[15:59:07] <Loetmichel> but thats all for the neutral at the INPUT of the VFD
[15:59:17] <Loetmichel> not beetween vfd and motor
[15:59:42] <Loetmichel> for the motor it should be without neutral, regardless of star or triangle circuit
[15:59:42] <CaptHindsight> http://static.schneider-electric.us/docs/Electrical%20Distribution/Low%20Voltage%20Transformers/Harmonic%20Mitigating/0104ED9501R896.pdf
[15:59:57] <CaptHindsight> ^^ covers this in detail
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[16:03:00] <TekniQue> mhmm
[16:03:09] <TekniQue> I was just bringing my mind back up to speed on this
[16:03:26] <TekniQue> haven't done any 3 phase motors in like a decade
[16:04:15] <TekniQue> I have seen what a poor neutral connection does for a system with uneven loads on it though
[16:04:18] <TekniQue> it wasn't pretty
[16:05:58] <TekniQue> a LAN party we did in 2003 or 2004, one of the 63 amp outlets in the building we used for our distro had a faulty ground fault breaker, the neutral contact went up in smoke
[16:06:39] <TekniQue> and a few dozen computers went up in smoke
[16:07:48] <jmasseo> I have a question on 3phase.
[16:07:49] <TekniQue> it's possible the power factor of all those old switch mode supplies was a factor in pushing the junked breaker beyond its service limit and frying the neutral contact
[16:08:02] <jmasseo> I'm wiring up a big kiln and the only suitable power supply near the outsie is like a 30 or 40a 3p 240vac
[16:08:35] <jmasseo> they make 3 phase relays, but i was wondering if i can just use 3 individual relays wired up to each phase?
[16:08:44] <jmasseo> that way if i need to rewrite for 1p again, i won't have to source new relays
[16:08:54] <TekniQue> you could use 3 individual relays
[16:09:07] <jdh> you can use a 3-phase contactor for single phase
[16:09:13] <TekniQue> and that also
[16:09:17] <jmasseo> well i'm using SSR's
[16:09:20] <jmasseo> not contactors
[16:09:22] <jmasseo> so i was not sure
[16:09:30] <TekniQue> I'd never use 3 individual relays if driving a motor
[16:09:36] <jmasseo> it's 13amp heating elements
[16:09:41] <TekniQue> but a kiln is 3 individual elements anyway
[16:09:45] <TekniQue> so it's fine
[16:09:47] <jmasseo> right
[16:10:12] <jmasseo> yeah 1 heating element proved completely inadequate.
[16:10:17] <TekniQue> but a motor really hates to lose a phase
[16:10:40] <jmasseo> it was nice because he had like a 15a 1p 240vac outlet right by the door. :)
[16:10:47] <jmasseo> i don't think i'd ever seen one in the wild before
[16:11:44] <jmasseo> just couldn't get the kiln over 1300f with just one element.
[16:12:09] <TekniQue> SSRs are a different thing altogether
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[16:12:11] <jmasseo> i need at least 1550 to harden 5160
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[16:12:38] <jmasseo> yeah i don't understand the operation of a 3 phase SSR
[16:12:39] <TekniQue> a 3 phase SSR would really be completely identical to three single phase SSRs, in a common housing
[16:12:44] <jmasseo> ah
[16:13:07] <TekniQue> three triacs and three optoisolators
[16:13:08] <jmasseo> that makes sense.
[16:13:27] <TekniQue> and three zero crossing circuits
[16:13:29] <jmasseo> my pid says it can light up to 9 ssr's
[16:13:42] <TekniQue> just with a single control signal
[16:13:49] <jmasseo> right
[16:14:07] <jmasseo> well the three individuals ended up costing me less since i already owned one, i only had to buy 2 more
[16:14:10] <jmasseo> i bought from auber
[16:14:18] <jmasseo> and then i saw them on amazon for $9.99 + free shipping, and they came with heat sinks.
[16:14:27] <TekniQue> solid state relays are awesome
[16:14:36] <jmasseo> yeah
[16:14:42] <TekniQue> switching only on zero crossing is so nice
[16:14:57] <jmasseo> i have an old timer i would like to replay the mechanical with a solid state.
[16:15:08] <jmasseo> the mechanical locked on one time and destroyed my shit.
[16:15:16] <jmasseo> the duty cycle is too low for that particular application
[16:15:19] <TekniQue> no contacts arcing over every time stuff switches off
[16:15:24] <jmasseo> right
[16:15:28] <jmasseo> when you're doing thousands of cycles a day
[16:15:31] <jmasseo> the mechanical dies young
[16:15:44] <TekniQue> heh, I wired up a tortilla baking machine at a bakery years ago
[16:15:49] <jmasseo> Important lessons were learned
[16:15:54] <jmasseo> At least myf ucking house didn't burn down, right?
[16:16:11] <TekniQue> redesigning the machine but kept the same old controller
[16:16:58] <TekniQue> converting it from being single phase 3kW to being three phase and 9kW IIRC
[16:17:14] <jmasseo> right
[16:17:24] <TekniQue> it had a mechanical 3 phase relay already and I just kept that
[16:17:51] <TekniQue> and every time it shut off, there was such a bright arc, it lit up the control cabinet
[16:18:10] <jmasseo> totally safe am i rite?
[16:18:14] <TekniQue> but 3 years later it's still in operation
[16:18:19] <TekniQue> hasn't failed
[16:18:20] <jmasseo> yeah
[16:18:26] <jmasseo> how often does it cycle?
[16:18:38] <jmasseo> my relay was cycling on for 5 seconds, off for 60 seconds, 24 hours a day.
[16:18:44] <jmasseo> it lived 6 months
[16:18:50] <TekniQue> IIRC, the cycle time in the PID control was 20 seconds
[16:18:50] <jmasseo> then it locked on
[16:18:52] <jmasseo> and broke a bunch of shit
[16:18:58] <jmasseo> wow
[16:19:11] <jmasseo> it must be a heavy duty contactor.
[16:19:14] <TekniQue> and this machine never runs unsupervised, it's not fully automatic
[16:19:27] <jmasseo> right, if it locks up you can just kick it
[16:19:35] <TekniQue> a person has to stand at the end of the conveyer and feed it dough balls
[16:19:38] <jmasseo> it only locked up once, but once was enough.
[16:19:49] <TekniQue> which it presses with a ton or so of pressure between two alu plates
[16:19:53] <TekniQue> to form a tortilla
[16:19:57] <jmasseo> nice.
[16:20:05] <jmasseo> then it throws it on the spiral heating thingy
[16:20:17] <TekniQue> the alu plates are heated
[16:20:22] <jmasseo> ah
[16:20:23] <TekniQue> that's where most of the power is
[16:20:34] <jdh> make an automatic dough baller and feeder
[16:20:38] <TekniQue> the baking is completed on a conveyer oven
[16:20:45] <jmasseo> most of the machines i've seen cook them on this spiral thing that lifts them up and dumps them out at the top
[16:20:52] <jmasseo> a lot of them are propane based too
[16:21:03] <jmasseo> i live in tx so i see them everywhere. a lot of places have their own.
[16:21:11] <jmasseo> i only have a little electric tortilla press at home. :(
[16:21:16] <jmasseo> takes like 2 minutes per tortilla
[16:23:53] <TekniQue> IIRC, this machine does several hundred per hour
[16:24:11] <TekniQue> takes a few seconds to press each tortilla
[16:24:56] <jmasseo> right
[16:25:08] <TekniQue> the press is operated by a motor driving a crankshaft
[16:25:15] <jmasseo> time to live the dream
[16:25:16] <jmasseo> http://dallas.craigslist.org/ftw/bfs/4243605811.html
[16:25:23] <TekniQue> and there are springs on the connecting rod to set the pressure
[16:25:28] <jmasseo> now you too can own a tortilla factor. :)
[16:26:09] <jmasseo> i don't understand
[16:26:11] <R2E4> They must be selling it cause they are making too much money.
[16:26:12] <jmasseo> what you mean about the press
[16:26:23] <jmasseo> R2E4: right. it's such a beautiful facility
[16:26:33] <jmasseo> R2E4: there are like 15 of these places in fort worth. most have been in business for a while.
[16:26:59] <jmasseo> http://dallas.craigslist.org/ftw/bfd/4250802766.html
[16:27:23] <jmasseo> $29.9k!
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[16:30:21] <R2E4> for 30,000.00 I can sell you this big money maker that has no chance of making money.
[16:30:33] <jmasseo> eh
[16:30:41] <jmasseo> you can make money selling tortillas
[16:31:37] <R2E4> inspections, food regulations insurance, that 30,000.00 will turn into 120,000.00 in no time
[16:31:49] <R2E4> then you got packaging and distribution? Are you insane?
[16:32:14] <R2E4> Thats if that chain of metal & motors works....
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[16:46:51] <jdh> I was searching for 'thruster' on aliexpress. The suggestions were not what I was looking for.
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[16:53:01] <jmasseo> right
[16:53:10] <jmasseo> in tx, inspections and regulations are not as onerous as in other places.
[16:53:13] <jmasseo> but yeah, it gets expensive.
[16:53:24] <jmasseo> property taxes on land are insane.
[16:54:28] <jmasseo> the wife is thinking of doing a snowcone stand or truck.
[16:54:38] <jmasseo> so i may find out soon how much legalese is involved
[16:55:08] <mozmck1> It's a pain, but doable.
[16:55:24] <jmasseo> right
[16:55:30] <jmasseo> i have no desire to work at a food truck or snow cone stand.
[16:55:43] <mozmck1> Once the thing is approved, inspections are not too bad if you keep things clean.
[16:55:49] <jmasseo> right
[16:55:58] <jmasseo> a food truck could be fun if i could just make whatever and sell it
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[16:56:03] <jmasseo> she wants to do like organic juice snowcones
[16:56:29] <mozmck1> My parents had a bakery that I helped build and worked in some so I have a little experience, and I owned a restaurant for about 6 months :)
[16:56:57] <mozmck1> Put it in the Whole Foods parking lot :)
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[17:00:02] <R2E4> cradek; you have a mori seiki? What control? seicos m16-2 maybe?
[17:00:20] <mozmck1> jmasseo: we put SSRs on a reflow oven to replace mercury relays and they have worked great.
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[17:00:59] <jmasseo> mozmck1 maybe.
[17:01:03] <jmasseo> SSR's are pretty great
[17:01:06] <jmasseo> i prefer them to mechanicals for sure.
[17:01:16] <mozmck1> btw, how do I change my nick back to mozmck?
[17:01:26] jdh is now known as mozmck
[17:01:31] <mozmck> like that!
[17:01:33] mozmck is now known as jdh
[17:02:38] <mozmck1> heh, so what is the command? I used msg nickserv identify and it said I'm identified for mozmck, but it didn't change...
[17:03:21] <jdh> /nick newnick
[17:04:12] mozmck1 is now known as mozmck
[17:04:21] <mozmck> thanks.
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[17:07:52] <R2E4> http://irmtl.com/cnct/VM40%20WITH%20SEICOS%20M2-MICON16-2.pdf most of the schematics and ladder is in this manual, forgot I had it online
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[17:17:58] <R2E4> page 70 and 71, that all I need for ATC logic besides location of X Y?
[17:18:20] <cradek> R2E4: yes, linuxcnc
[17:18:27] <R2E4> 73 74 and 75
[17:18:33] <R2E4> Cool.
[17:18:54] <R2E4> What control did you remove?
[17:19:09] <cradek> yasnac something or other
[17:19:28] <R2E4> Ah!
[17:19:49] <R2E4> I am missing 2 parameters I cannot find to make this thing move.
[17:20:04] <cradek> retrofit!
[17:20:14] <R2E4> yup, thats what I am doing
[17:21:41] <R2E4> Theres alot to it. Alot more than whats on the surface.
[17:22:06] <cradek> yeah you end up having to understand *everything* in the machine
[17:22:18] <R2E4> Thats the good part
[17:22:26] <uw> that is one shitty pdf
[17:22:47] <R2E4> haha, I have the actual printed manual
[17:23:57] <R2E4> First half is not that bad, the second half is terrible but that is all the ladder logic....
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[17:33:54] <R2E4> It would be nice to have it powerup ok so I can double check signals before try and pray.
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[18:12:01] <IchGuckLive> hi all B)
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[18:18:59] <uw> Hello IchGuckLive
[18:19:10] <IchGuckLive> ;-)
[18:19:19] <IchGuckLive> einar_: i see you got all going
[18:28:40] <jdh> she stayed with them while she was doing the album
[18:28:43] <jdh> <urk>
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[18:56:08] <JohnDoe_> hey guys
[18:56:28] <JohnDoe_> looking for some out of the box help here
[18:56:35] <JohnDoe_> not really cnc related
[18:56:54] <CaptHindsight> just ask
[18:57:35] <CaptHindsight> most questions get responses, some are even on topic :)
[18:57:48] <R2E4> waiting with ......... baited anticipation!!
[18:58:34] <JohnDoe_> sorry was getting link
[18:58:55] <JohnDoe_> need a M8 soloution similar to this http://www.alibaba.com/product-gs/1403397102/Long_Lifespan_Competitive_Price_Split_Nuts.html
[18:59:08] <JohnDoe_> something cheep
[18:59:14] <JohnDoe_> or easy to do !
[18:59:15] -!- sumpfralle has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds]
[18:59:22] <JohnDoe_> and pref in the uk
[18:59:33] <CaptHindsight> M8 what thread?
[18:59:50] <JohnDoe_> standard metric. 1.25 i think
[19:00:37] <JT-Shop> sawing a nut in half comes to mind
[19:00:38] <JohnDoe_> i was thinking just cutting nuts in half then tip tieint them togeter :/
[19:00:45] <JT-Shop> but I don't know the application
[19:01:13] <JohnDoe_> well i need to use them as pinch nuts to tighten up on an arm that needs to be secure. ish
[19:01:18] <IchGuckLive> JohnDoe_: im in germany that shot hold every metal store or plumber stuff shop
[19:01:40] <JohnDoe_> im in North Scotland and we have sheep and cows !
[19:01:50] <JohnDoe_> and Rain :(
[19:01:52] <IchGuckLive> JohnDoe_: M8 is standart to rain tubes 2inch
[19:01:55] <uw> i have a nice sweater from Scotland
[19:01:58] <CaptHindsight> but plenty of single malt to make up for it
[19:02:04] <JohnDoe_> made of wool i bet
[19:02:13] <Loetmichel> JohnDoe_: i was in dundee once...
[19:02:19] <uw> "eye"
[19:02:20] <Loetmichel> nice landscape
[19:02:23] <JohnDoe_> its a shit hole
[19:02:26] <Loetmichel> ... dirty city ;-)
[19:02:31] <JohnDoe_> like the rest of scotlands ciitys
[19:02:44] <uw> probably the nicest sweater i own too boot
[19:02:58] <uw> i didnt know wool could be so soft
[19:02:58] <Loetmichel> ... and not so friendly if you are wearing german navy uniform ;-)
[19:03:01] <JohnDoe_> aye thats dundee , junkies and prostitues and lots of HIV
[19:03:03] <IchGuckLive> JohnDoe_: http://www.hornbach.de/shop/suche/articles-overview.html?searchSuggestion=rohrschelle&tab=articles&cid=2431757
[19:03:05] <CaptHindsight> and once again, plenty of single malt to make up for it
[19:03:27] <JohnDoe_> silly nazi ... !!!
[19:03:29] <uw> scotland needs to break free of the uk
[19:03:37] <JohnDoe_> we know
[19:03:39] <uw> join the scando club
[19:03:41] <Loetmichel> but were MUCH more friendly after we "redesinged" a pub whre two of our men had a brawl ;-)
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[19:03:52] <JohnDoe_> dont get coky
[19:04:00] <JohnDoe_> we owned you ww1 and ww2
[19:04:01] <IchGuckLive> the scotish HULIGASNS shoudt stay out of EUROP
[19:04:13] <CaptHindsight> like revolt and rule yourselves? I think I saw a movie about that
[19:04:26] <uw> damnit germans are you getting state pride again?
[19:04:28] <JohnDoe_> aye well i can dream on
[19:04:43] <JohnDoe_> uw they never lost it !
[19:04:44] <Loetmichel> JohnDoe_: and still your guys were owned by löess than 60 youingsters and a few officers ;-)
[19:05:17] <JohnDoe_> yea well i dont know the situation . scotlands not a healthy nation anymore
[19:05:25] <JohnDoe_> too much corruption
[19:05:31] <uw> such is the world
[19:05:42] <JohnDoe_> we need a cleansing
[19:05:48] <CaptHindsight> sounds like the US
[19:05:52] <JohnDoe_> id even say a culling
[19:05:53] <uw> yup
[19:06:02] <JohnDoe_> tbh i wish we had lost ww2
[19:06:10] <Loetmichel> JohnDoe_: was very simple
[19:06:12] <uw> ....
[19:06:18] <Loetmichel> we were there for a weekend
[19:06:18] <JohnDoe_> i think by now the world would be in far better shape under german rule !
[19:06:25] <uw> thats not the first time i've heard that
[19:06:36] <Loetmichel> Friday even in 2 of our ship got some in a pub
[19:07:44] <Loetmichel> next mornin the Kaleu stood on deck: "you know what happened last night?" "YES SIR!" "Volunteers on step ahead" 70 * STOMPSTOMP
[19:08:06] <Loetmichel> so we "redesingt the pup and its occupants ;-)
[19:08:16] <Loetmichel> "redesinged"
[19:08:28] <JohnDoe_> well 70 strong against how many ?
[19:08:45] <uw> stomp boots by hugo boss
[19:09:17] <JohnDoe_> even if you did that to the english who we scots dislike ' in principle' as much as germans if were going this route i still wouldnt find it funny
[19:09:34] <JohnDoe_> why did your 2 comrades get a kicking in the first place ?
[19:09:48] <JohnDoe_> probabally being pricks is why and not showing RESPECT
[19:10:05] <JohnDoe_> visiting forighn lands and being cunts
[19:10:06] <Loetmichel> 60 ( 10 had to stay and keep watch on the ship) young navy soldiers against about the same amopunt of scottish workers and fishermen ;-)
[19:10:18] <JohnDoe_> fuck off you prick
[19:10:35] <JohnDoe_> typical arrogant bosch
[19:10:40] <uw> :(
[19:10:46] <Loetmichel> JohnDoe_: something about "fuck off nazis" and "say that again!"
[19:11:53] <Loetmichel> at least WE payed tor the renovation of the pub from our ships purse
[19:12:07] <uw> anyway i think the world may be better off under german rule...
[19:12:08] <uw> just sayin
[19:12:14] <JohnDoe_> well i bet you guys neeed to watch your back in dundee now or youll get a stabbing next time
[19:12:36] <Loetmichel> JohnDoe_: it was about 20 years ago
[19:12:53] <Loetmichel> i dont think anyone there would be still recognizeable
[19:12:56] <JohnDoe_> so?
[19:12:59] <Loetmichel> 25 years
[19:13:05] <JohnDoe_> dont need to be
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[19:13:23] <JohnDoe_> red yellow and black easy to rememebr
[19:13:31] <uw> IchGuck has had enough LOL
[19:13:32] <Loetmichel> interestingly: after that "clarification" we had nor more "nazi" yellings the rest of the weekend
[19:14:58] <JohnDoe_> well just remember Scapa FLow !
[19:15:04] <JohnDoe_> whole fucking fleet at the bottom
[19:15:17] <JohnDoe_> you lot wernt so fucking cocky then
[19:15:23] <JohnDoe_> white flags
[19:15:27] <JohnDoe_> sad faces
[19:16:11] <JohnDoe_> being a navy fag you get taught about Scappa FLow ?
[19:17:58] <Loetmichel> have heard the name
[19:18:04] Reventlov is now known as Giskarde
[19:18:06] <Loetmichel> but ant remember what it was
[19:18:08] Giskarde is now known as Reventlov
[19:18:09] <Loetmichel> cant
[19:18:37] <Loetmichel> and btw: i made some friends in dundee
[19:18:40] <JohnDoe_> German Fleet. Pride of the Motherland. Got trapped. We let you surrender and you scupperd your whole fleet
[19:18:48] <JohnDoe_> LMFAO
[19:18:52] <Loetmichel> some of the guys we had the brawl with
[19:19:01] <JohnDoe_> yea yea pub drunks
[19:19:09] <JohnDoe_> you beat up some scottish drunks
[19:19:12] <JohnDoe_> big woop
[19:19:13] <Loetmichel> they were really OK after the "differences" were "cleared off"
[19:19:25] <JohnDoe_> idk
[19:19:31] <JohnDoe_> by bye
[19:19:42] <JohnDoe_> you confirm my image of germans btw
[19:19:48] <Loetmichel> do i?
[19:19:50] <Loetmichel> why?
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[19:20:46] <roycroft> there's nothing wrong with the germans
[19:20:50] * Tom_itx LOOKS AT JYMMM
[19:20:50] <roycroft> but don't talk about the war
[19:21:00] <uw> yea it was a long time ago
[19:22:36] <cradek> Tom_itx: eh
[19:22:50] <pcw_home> nationalism
[19:22:51] <pcw_home> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hsjoHE3r3A8
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[19:23:53] <Loetmichel> ah, btw: what has come of the "elections" to get scotland independend?
[19:24:13] <R2E4> haha Poppycock!!!
[19:24:50] <roycroft> the referendum is later this year
[19:24:58] <Loetmichel> ah, i see
[19:25:09] <roycroft> last i heard, it hasn't a great chance of passing
[19:25:17] <Loetmichel> just heard something about it, dindt know when it was to happen
[19:25:30] <uw> hmm
[19:26:11] <roycroft> i think the only reason cameron agreed to it was because the chances were so slim
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[19:26:59] <Loetmichel> to make even more enemys here: the scots did at least know that hitler is dead. unlike some americans who asked me if he is still Chancellor ;-)
[19:27:44] <uw> people i work with believe he is (or was in the 2000s) alive in south america...
[19:28:02] <uw> and i wouldnt call these particularly "dumb" people
[19:28:12] <roycroft> i like that nice mister hilter, but i'm a little concerned about those boncentration bamps he talks about
[19:28:28] <Loetmichel> uw: possible but unlikely
[19:28:52] <uw> Loetmichel, agreed
[19:28:53] <roycroft> there are people in the us who think obama was born in kenya
[19:29:05] <CaptHindsight> Uhmericans
[19:29:06] <roycroft> there are people all over the world who think the world is 6000 years old
[19:29:27] <Loetmichel> roycroft: MANY of them in the american "bible belt" ;-)
[19:29:28] <uw> and that people were never on the moon
[19:29:33] <skunkworks> it takes all kind?
[19:29:36] <roycroft> facts are just liberal talking points
[19:29:42] <roycroft> faith is the real truth
[19:29:46] <R2E4> L
[19:29:48] <roycroft> don't you all know that?
[19:29:51] <uw> math is the real truth
[19:29:57] <roycroft> math is liberal
[19:29:59] <uw> everything else is bullshit
[19:30:02] <roycroft> liberals do not speak truth
[19:30:12] <Loetmichel> hrhr
[19:30:14] <roycroft> go thump on your bible
[19:30:22] <roycroft> you're obviously impure
[19:30:58] <Loetmichel> i think the last time i've seen a bilble was wehen i was working in a catholic curch installing the loudspeakers ;)
[19:31:31] <CaptHindsight> roycroft: lol, love the flip
[19:32:19] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: ?
[19:32:29] <uw> too late
[19:32:34] <uw> arguements over
[19:32:42] <Loetmichel> Jymmm: i think he wants us both kicked
[19:32:46] <roycroft> everybody lost
[19:32:50] <skunkworks> or is he..... ;)
[19:34:31] <Loetmichel> to be a bit more ontopic: anyone knows if a 0,6mm drill in delrin will (snug) fit on a 0,65mm motor shaft?
[19:35:10] <CaptHindsight> 50um is nice interference fit
[19:35:28] <Loetmichel> <- had made some gears for a friend. (have some issues with loosing y steps though) -> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=14547
[19:35:29] <CaptHindsight> depends on how thick the delrin is as well
[19:35:36] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=14544
[19:35:42] -!- mode/#linuxcnc [+o Jymmm] by ChanServ
[19:35:45] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=14550
[19:35:54] <Loetmichel> 3mm thick gears
[19:36:24] -!- mode/#linuxcnc [+b JohnDoe*!*@*] by Jymmm
[19:36:28] -!- JohnDoe_ was kicked from #linuxcnc by Jymmm!~jymmm@unaffiliated/jymmm [JohnDoe_]
[19:36:34] <Loetmichel> hmm
[19:37:19] <Loetmichel> like i said to uw: he wasnt so bad, ab bit biased maybe.
[19:37:41] <Jymmm> ~~~ 2014-01-09.10:56:01 JohnDoe_ has joined (~JohnDoe@host86-157-197-165.range86-157.btcentralplus.com)
[19:38:29] <CaptHindsight> well if you have to draw the line somewhere
[19:38:31] <uw> :/
[19:38:42] -!- mode/#linuxcnc [+b *!*JohnDoe*@*] by Jymmm
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[19:39:40] <Loetmichel> Jymmm: a bit harsh for a harmless discussionwith a few bad words, dont you think?
[19:39:55] -!- mode/#linuxcnc [+q Loetmichel!*@*] by Jymmm
[19:40:04] * Jymmm giggles
[19:40:08] -!- mode/#linuxcnc [-q Loetmichel!*@*] by Jymmm
[19:40:12] <cradek> the storm was over, he looked like an idiot, I think it had worked out fine
[19:40:28] * cradek shrugs
[19:40:42] <Loetmichel> ahem... thet gag was lost to me.. what does +q do?
[19:40:51] -!- mode/#linuxcnc [+q Loetmichel!*@*] by Jymmm
[19:41:00] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: speak boy, speak
[19:41:12] <cradek> Jymmm: you're being kind of obnoxious...
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[19:41:18] -!- mode/#linuxcnc [-q Loetmichel!*@*] by Jymmm
[19:41:20] <CaptHindsight> you guys are tough on asking about split nuts
[19:41:22] <Loetmichel> ah, i see
[19:41:26] <Loetmichel> :-)
[19:41:27] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: =)
[19:41:39] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: lol
[19:41:57] <skunkworks> remind me not to ask about pipe threads!
[19:42:02] <Loetmichel> HRHR
[19:42:27] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: It was the hatred, not profanity
[19:42:31] <Loetmichel> as long as you are not playing them ;-)
[19:42:39] <Loetmichel> Jymmm: you may be right
[19:42:58] <Loetmichel> but still i would have tried to talk him out of it.
[19:43:00] <uw> some people you just cant reach
[19:43:20] <Loetmichel> he surely cant know the germans first hand ;-)
[19:43:48] <uw> that or has experice with a select group
[19:44:06] <uw> thats typically an american problem idk why he was so aginst germans
[19:44:23] <Loetmichel> aside from some "betonkoepfe" we are friendly and can be reasoned with... now
[19:44:27] <Jymmm> prejudice is taught, and if one chooses to be that way fine, but no need to spread it where it's not welcome.
[19:44:38] <CaptHindsight> up to -6C today, feels warm
[19:44:56] <Loetmichel> CaptHindsight: so you are american?
[19:45:10] <Loetmichel> its 9.9°c PLUS here
[19:45:12] <Loetmichel> outside
[19:45:16] <CaptHindsight> most of the time yes
[19:45:26] <Loetmichel> and its 20:45 over here ;-)
[19:45:39] <Loetmichel> hmmm
[19:45:59] <Loetmichel> what would be "betonkoepfe" in english?
[19:46:12] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: farfignuten
[19:46:17] <skunkworks> 13F here.
[19:46:20] <uw> LOL
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[19:46:36] <CaptHindsight> fart fig nuten?
[19:47:20] <CaptHindsight> thick headed
[19:47:21] <Loetmichel> hrhr
[19:47:34] <Loetmichel> Fahrvergnuegen....
[19:47:43] <Loetmichel> took a while to decode that ;-)
[19:47:54] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: =)
[19:47:59] <skunkworks> I think the subzero temps finally solved a problem I was having with the car.. Intake manifold gasket is leaking and gets worse in the cold
[19:48:25] <Loetmichel> skunkworks: and now its frozen solid and leak-free?
[19:48:29] <CaptHindsight> same here with a rear brake caliper
[19:48:33] <CaptHindsight> seal leaked
[19:48:59] <skunkworks> it actually made the leak worse so it threw an engine code to trouble shoot
[19:49:21] * Loetmichel hat a shock second today. someone cut me on the way home so i had to stom on the brakes full force
[19:49:48] <Loetmichel> ... no abs rubble... and the pedal felt like a rubber "spring"
[19:50:06] <CaptHindsight> I'm putting a switch on the ABS
[19:50:16] <Loetmichel> ... it seems i should change the breake fluid alt least every 10 years ;-)
[19:50:40] <CaptHindsight> one car had a bad sensor so the ABS was out, now that it's replaced I like it the other way
[19:51:26] <CaptHindsight> I like being able to squeal the tires to wake people up, it works better than the horn
[19:51:57] <CaptHindsight> the horn just gets them angry
[19:53:15] <Loetmichel> CaptHindsight: dont have that problem. used the horn maybe 3 times since i have the drivers license
[19:53:26] <CaptHindsight> Loetmichel: is dummkopf an old expression? All my german insults are pre 1950's
[19:54:11] <Loetmichel> its still used, but the "modern" kids go with english insults i think
[19:54:34] <Loetmichel> so you may sond a little oldfashioned but perfectly understanable ;-)
[19:55:07] <CaptHindsight> our family there used to laugh at my mom for sounding so old skool
[19:55:27] <Loetmichel> for the squealing tires: sometimes i whish the rearview mirror would not be "optional" to some ppl
[19:55:40] <Loetmichel> had to decellerate on the autobahn lately...
[19:55:57] <CaptHindsight> rear facing spot lights can also be handy
[19:56:59] <Loetmichel> drove at 200++kph at the left lane... some grandma in a fiat panda decided to overtake the lorry she was behind... at about 95kph.
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[19:57:09] <Loetmichel> and about 200m in front of me :-(
[19:57:49] <CaptHindsight> well here it would be similar only they change both to the left and right
[19:58:28] <Loetmichel> so now i know that my front discs are working because after painting 100m++ of dotted line on the tarmac i've seen the red glow out of the front wheels mirrored on the tarmac
[19:58:31] <CaptHindsight> and in China, it's like driving on a go-cart track with kids
[19:58:45] <CaptHindsight> thats hot
[19:59:07] <Loetmichel> the omega weights about 2 tons with me in it :-)
[19:59:16] <CaptHindsight> did the tires get flat spots?
[19:59:26] <Loetmichel> no, the car has ABS
[19:59:35] <Loetmichel> i said: dotted line ;-)
[20:00:49] <Loetmichel> its a little (for americans)big hatchback(for europeans)
[20:01:24] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=11969
[20:01:36] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=11975
[20:02:08] <uw> real car > http://home.comcast.net/~kowalski28/cadillac/66cadi_2.jpg
[20:02:33] <CaptHindsight> lol
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[20:03:17] <CaptHindsight> 501 cu in (~8L V8)
[20:03:32] <Loetmichel> i think it was sold as Vauxhall Carlton in england and Cadillac Catera in america
[20:03:58] <Loetmichel> uw: a bit old, dont you think?
[20:04:02] <uw> CaptHindsight, merica
[20:04:36] <uw> Loetmichel, LOL cadillac catera i havent heard that term in years
[20:04:44] <uw> true the other is old
[20:04:54] <Loetmichel> uw: that may be because it was disconinued in 2003 ;-)
[20:04:59] <Loetmichel> +t
[20:05:31] <uw> i think they had big problems too over here, reliability wise
[20:05:44] <Loetmichel> and mine has only a 2.5 liters 6 cylinder turbocharged diesel
[20:05:47] <uw> i havent even seen one driving in years
[20:06:00] <uw> oh so that might be better
[20:06:08] <Loetmichel> i think it was to small for the american market
[20:06:22] <Loetmichel> ... from BMW
[20:06:26] <uw> we dont get many decent diesels overhere.
[20:06:32] <Loetmichel> and automatic shift ;-)
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[20:06:53] <Loetmichel> engine and gearbox are made by bmw
[20:07:09] <Loetmichel> opel didnt have a big enough diesel ;-)
[20:07:24] <uw> well, hopefully thats a good thing
[20:07:30] <Loetmichel> its nice
[20:07:30] <CaptHindsight> it's the goofy sulfur limit for diesels here, seems to work everywhere else
[20:07:55] <uw> i've heard horror stories about bmw parts and problems, though im sure some are decent
[20:08:10] <Loetmichel> plenty of acceleration for such a big car and about 26-28mpg
[20:08:23] <CaptHindsight> it keeps the low mileage cars on the road as well, 50+mpg is not good for gasoline sales
[20:08:41] <uw> true, the conspiracy part
[20:09:15] <Loetmichel> the bmw engine has 183 hp, the opel variant only 150
[20:09:18] <uw> i want to get into diesels, but i dont have a big enough CNC to work on them
[20:09:19] <Loetmichel> so it will last
[20:09:25] <uw> (the ones i can get anyway)
[20:10:29] <Loetmichel> it has 250'000km on the meter now, and still running like a charm (besides some problems with the vacuum hoses lately, i should search for the leak)
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[20:11:27] <Loetmichel> came home today: small car with hazard lights on diagonally on the street right in front of my house.
[20:12:07] <Loetmichel> was the (grandma) neighbor. choked the engine and battery empty ;-)
[20:12:39] <Loetmichel> so i gave her a jumpstart, said: drive a few km to get the battery charged" and parked mny car
[20:12:53] <Loetmichel> came back to my house still seing her standing there.
[20:13:38] <Loetmichel> she opens the door: "i am sorry to bother you again... but you pulled the handbrake so hard i cant get it unlocked!"
[20:13:42] <Loetmichel> *ups*
[20:14:06] <Loetmichel> <- "silly me... *reaches over her and unlocked the lever* there you go!" ;-)
[20:14:51] <Deejay> haha
[20:15:54] <Loetmichel> got me thinking how hard she can hit the brakes if necessary
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[20:45:10] <CaptHindsight> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AorVxw305DA 3D printer for printing and pcb milling
[20:46:49] <CaptHindsight> controlled by an embedded Linux board? :/
[20:48:08] <skunkworks> slow
[20:48:41] <CaptHindsight> looks more like an engraving tip
[20:50:02] <CaptHindsight> @ 1:25
[20:50:31] <CaptHindsight> they attached a dremel like tool
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[20:57:08] <Jymmm> This is cool... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D2gAI-4SJ8w
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[20:59:59] <CaptHindsight> not bad for a legless percussionist
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[21:08:25] <uw> anybody recommend decent NONdigital metric/inch calipers?
[21:08:32] <uw> one with the 2 needles
[21:08:50] <uw> i dropped mine months ago and life hasnt been the same since
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[21:32:28] <rob_h> in 2.5.3 did the jog and velocity slider get changed for axis display or a INI value setting change? as i cant seem to get a max jog slider value different to the velocity slider as i am now seeing the job slider not obaying the MAX_LINEAR_VELOCITY in display, and velocity sliders not obaying MAX_VELOCITY in traj section
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[21:33:23] <Tom_itx> i _think_ they change with the ini settings
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[21:34:48] <Tom_itx> MAX_FEED_OVERRIDE and MAX_LINEAR_VELOCITY in the [DISPLAY] section
[21:35:23] <Tom_itx> and DEFAULT_LINEAR_VELOCITY
[21:35:40] <rob_h> the max_linear_velocity no longer does anything you see u cna put value there but it has no effect
[21:35:51] <Tom_itx> mine are set to 1.25, 1.8 and 1.2 respectively
[21:35:54] <rob_h> my ini file worked fine in 2.5.0 but today on upgrade its broken
[21:37:59] <cradek> rob_h: http://git.linuxcnc.org/gitweb?p=linuxcnc.git;a=commitdiff;h=80db1ea664aa190d8a7c09ff340557644f78ee3e
[21:38:38] <cradek> I bet you have conflicting MAX_LINEAR_VELOCITY in your DISPLAY and TRAJ sections
[21:39:33] <rob_h> ok that sets the job and velocity slider together
[21:39:36] <rob_h> jog
[21:40:05] <cradek> I don't understand what you just said
[21:40:32] <rob_h> im looking to set the job slider to say max of 100 units max value on slider, and the velocity of say 200 units max
[21:41:17] <rob_h> ^jog slider
[21:41:35] <rob_h> right now i cant seem to set the jog slider to one max value and the velocity to a different
[21:42:46] <rob_h> here is my current config, http://pastebin.com/bER7g7Zf
[21:44:53] <cradek> I think you are right - you cannot set the max jog speed to less than the max velocity
[21:45:16] <cradek> you can set the default jog speed to a lower value, but you can always slide the slider up above that
[21:45:25] <rob_h> i loaded up a 2.5.0 setup in sim, shows them both different, upgraded to 2.5.3 and it changed them
[21:45:45] <rob_h> yea, just when u press Shift and jog key u get a nice 10m/min job
[21:46:30] <rob_h> not say a nice 5000m/min when setting up etc it was a nice setup to have i found, as i found you did not need to jog around full rapids only when u had machine set just let it fly with the velocity slider
[21:46:53] <rob_h> maybe a nice new max_linear_job ini setting is needed?
[21:49:37] <rob_h> manual does say MAX_LINEAR_VELOCITY = The maximum velocity for linear jogs, in machine units per second. for display
[21:49:58] <cradek> yeah this change made it match the manual...
[21:50:06] <cradek> backward compatibility is sure a pain
[21:50:13] <einar_> How do I set up a launch icon when I now need to open terminal window. cd linuxcnc-dev, then: /scripts/linuxcnc ./configs/univstep/univstep.ini
[21:50:26] <cradek> there are three separate ini places it tries to find the jogspeed and four where it tries for the maxvel
[21:50:34] <rob_h> i think imore used a "bug" than a function maybe due to the ini search orders looking at axis.py
[21:51:07] <einar_> this is 2.6.0~pre
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[21:52:30] <cradek> yes I think you are right, but I bet that's little consolence
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[21:54:01] <rob_h> i just found when u have a fast machine, the job slider makes it hard to find that nice jog speed as range is spread quite long for a short slider
[21:54:50] <cradek> I always use the key shortcuts - I agree the slider is not that great
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[22:07:09] <rob_h> thanks anyway cradek for susing it out
[22:14:23] <skunkworks> can you hook jog speed to a jog wheel?
[22:16:17] <rob_h> think so yes
[22:19:03] <Deejay> gn8
[22:19:05] <skunkworks> I find that jog wheel running SO, MV and FO works well
[22:19:09] <rob_h> erm it looks like it does not have a count value input like feed and velocity it seems
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[22:25:06] <skunkworks> maybe halui.jog-speed float in
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[23:15:13] <atom1> ok i just did a git clone of master and tried compiling it and get this error:
[23:15:17] <atom1> checking /usr/src/linux-headers-2.6.32-122-rtai/include/linux/version.h usability... no
[23:15:31] <atom1> and a few others concerning version.h
[23:15:50] <atom1> any ideas?
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[23:55:38] <atom1> ok, i'm trying to use 'edge': http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/html/man/man9/edge.9.html
[23:55:55] <atom1> and i enter: edge.0.in-edge = 0
[23:56:03] <atom1> and get an error
[23:56:50] <atom1> Unknown command 'edge.0.in-edge
[23:57:19] <atom1> trying to set the parameter so it looks at the falling edge
[23:57:29] <atom1> err rising i mean
[23:57:35] <skunkworks> setp
[23:58:15] <atom1> you can tell i haven't coded in a while :)
[23:59:07] <andypugh> setp edge.0.in-edge 0
[23:59:16] <atom1> yeah
[23:59:21] <atom1> i got it figured out
[23:59:41] <atom1> what's the difference between 'edge' and 'oneshot' ?