#linuxcnc | Logs for 2013-12-11

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[00:15:02] <Tom_itx> JT-Shop, what's new this round?
[00:17:07] <Tom_itx> you broke the corner diagram
[00:17:50] <JT-Shop> well it should still work?
[00:18:06] <Tom_itx> looks better for sure
[00:18:08] <JT-Shop> I'm adding some images and fixing a few things
[00:18:30] <JT-Shop> I'm going to remove the radio buttons for position
[00:19:57] <Tom_itx> you might want a tiny bit more space between the * and the X Start etc at the bottom. someone could confuse that as being for the X Start
[00:20:31] <Tom_itx> those boxes don't need to be near that big
[00:25:02] <JT-Shop> I don't have much control over the size of widgets... the only thing I dislike about Gtk
[00:25:22] <Tom_itx> hmm
[00:25:23] <JT-Shop> let me get a copy on this box so I can follow along
[00:26:37] <Tom_itx> is your drill routine a peck cycle?
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[00:26:48] <Tom_itx> under hole ops
[00:27:10] <Tom_itx> looks like it is
[00:27:11] <JT-Shop> no, but I can add that option
[00:27:34] <Tom_itx> you have a peck entry value there
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[00:29:38] <Tom_itx> i would also copy the drill cycle entry over to the tap page so you can dril and tap right on one page
[00:29:49] <Tom_itx> and leave it on the other one as well
[00:30:08] <Tom_itx> have it as a checkoff if you want it enabled
[00:30:29] <Tom_itx> since you list all the drill sizes there
[00:32:06] <Tom_itx> or move the tap routine over to the hole ops page
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[00:35:23] <JT-Shop> you have to visit several tabs to set up a hole routine so tapping is kinda busy so I left it on it's own page incase you just want to drill
[00:35:54] <Tom_itx> i assume the coordinate list is for all the drill ops. under that assumption i would add 2 boxes there as checkoffs for each coordinate for tapping and reaming. so if it's checked off, the hole will be drilled then the 2nd op performed after the list is drilled
[00:35:56] <JT-Shop> trying to keep the overall size small so it can run beside Axis
[00:36:21] <JT-Shop> I'm not following
[00:36:33] <Tom_itx> on the coordinate page where you enter x and y values
[00:36:39] <JT-Shop> the coordinates are for any ops that are checked off as enabled
[00:36:48] <Tom_itx> add 2 checkoff boxes for each coordinate in the list
[00:37:00] <Tom_itx> one for reamer and the other for tapping
[00:37:13] <Tom_itx> i presume each hole will need to be drilled first
[00:37:13] <JT-Shop> it would take 5 check boxes that way for every hole
[00:37:19] <Tom_itx> ok
[00:37:41] <JT-Shop> it just depends on what your working with, you may have pre-drilled holes
[00:37:59] <Tom_itx> you're only going to do a maximum of 3 ops on any given hole
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[00:38:07] <Tom_itx> drill, tap, chamfer
[00:38:12] <Tom_itx> drill, ream
[00:38:13] <Tom_itx> drill
[00:38:26] <Tom_itx> drill, chamfer, ream
[00:38:31] <JT-Shop> you might want a more precise hole than drilling so you ream
[00:38:40] <Tom_itx> right
[00:38:59] <JT-Shop> you might spot, drill, ream, chamfer, then tap
[00:39:02] <Tom_itx> so you drill it first then it goes back thru the list looking for a reamer checkoff
[00:39:17] <Tom_itx> then it goes back thru looking for tap etc
[00:39:26] <JT-Shop> the order is spot, drill, ream, chamfer, then tap
[00:39:34] <Tom_itx> i could see how that would get a bit busy
[00:39:34] <JT-Shop> if enabled
[00:39:54] <JT-Shop> busy in what way?
[00:40:05] <Tom_itx> what i was suggesting
[00:40:27] <Tom_itx> maybe not such a good idea
[00:40:52] <Tom_itx> i'm still thinking in cad cam :)
[00:40:52] <JT-Shop> oh all the check boxes on the Coordinates tab?
[00:40:57] <Tom_itx> yeah
[00:41:04] <g_mouer> how do I post a screenshot here when getting help?
[00:41:12] <Tom_itx> imagebin
[00:41:19] <JT-Shop> imagebin.org or com I forget
[00:41:26] <g_mouer> thanks
[00:41:29] <JT-Shop> or ca
[00:41:57] <JT-Shop> http://imagebin.org/
[00:42:20] <Tom_itx> doing the single ops like you are doing may be simpler
[00:42:58] <Tom_itx> i'm just thinking like cad cam where i'd add a drill, tap reamer etc for each hole, order them up and process it
[00:45:05] <g_mouer> getting a error message from pncconf (5i25 / 7i77) if anyone can help http://imagebin.org/281755
[00:45:32] <Tom_itx> those that can, will
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[00:46:07] <JT-Shop> g_mouer, the best place for pncconf support is the forum, the author is there daily and seldom here
[00:46:26] <JT-Shop> have you seen my sample configs for 7i77
[00:46:31] <g_mouer> thanks John, didn't know if Chris comes here
[00:46:57] <JT-Shop> not very often, and I don't understand the error
[00:47:01] <g_mouer> I had a 7i77 setup before, doing it on another system months later
[00:47:26] <tjb1> Anyone here NC'd a G0704
[00:47:42] * JT-Shop hears the dinner bell
[00:47:59] * Tom_itx just came from the feed trough
[00:48:00] <JT-Shop> talk to you guys later, thanks for the feedback Tom_itx
[00:48:06] <g_mouer> thanks, off to the forum
[00:48:09] <Tom_itx> np
[00:48:23] <Tom_itx> JT-Shop,
[00:48:40] <Tom_itx> on the facing i would at least offer the 2 rear corners as start points
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[00:48:48] <Tom_itx> or a way to enter coordinates for them
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[01:05:34] <g_mouer> posted a problem in forum on pncconf but noticed Chris Morley has not been on in 8 days. Everything ok with him?
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[02:22:05] <dchevak> Hi there, and does anyone know of a youtube site for learning linuxcnc ?
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[02:34:31] <skunkworks> dchevak: not that I know of. What sort of things are you looking for? The documenation is pretty good..
[02:37:58] <Jymmm> skunkworks: isn't it past your bedtime?
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[02:46:29] <skunkworks> not yet.. getting close
[03:00:29] <dchevak> Just looking for adding tools and offsets and basicly getting more setup for my machine..
[03:01:46] <dchevak> I bought a sherline cnc because it was light to ship I live in Village in Chevak and shipping is expensive..
[03:02:50] <dchevak> I am looking at getting a bigger manual lathe 12Z and convert to cnc later
[03:03:46] <dchevak> from ihcnc.com
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[03:23:13] <Tom_itx> dchevak mill or lathe?
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[03:34:34] <dchevak> mill
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[03:57:33] <uw> grissmill?
[03:57:36] <uw> sorry wrong chan
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[04:42:17] <Mr_Mayhem> I just bought a Mesa Electronics 7I76-5I25 PLUG-N-GO KIT to interface with my yoocnc6040 driver boards. Should get here tommorrow. It consists of the 5I25 pci card, and the 7I76 STEP/IO Step&dir plus I/O daughtercard. Is there MESA guru around who can point me to a webpage or two for setting this up with LinuxCNC on a standard router mill?
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[04:48:21] <Mr_Mayhem> I fried my parallel port, so i figured this was a wise fix and a good upgrade for the money (stepping done on fpga). I will bypass the original breakout card and use this setup instead. But the set up is something I need more info to complete. Amy useful links would be appreciated, thanks.
[04:48:23] <uw> those are selling like hot cakes
[04:48:50] <Mr_Mayhem> Yeah?
[04:51:24] <uw> yap i want one too i think you make a good choice
[04:51:25] <Mr_Mayhem> I looked at the Beagle board black with excitement as well, but they are out of stock everywhere. I bet the BBB will be a huge hit with Linuxcnc if the stepgen is clean and fast enough.
[04:51:35] NickParker|2 is now known as NickParker
[04:51:39] <uw> well, the mesa part not the burning out the parallel port. that was prolly dumb
[04:51:50] <Mr_Mayhem> hehe
[04:52:08] <uw> Mr_Mayhem, i am getting one for xmas and cant wait
[04:52:30] <uw> BBB not mesa kit
[04:52:39] <Mr_Mayhem> Ah. Very cool.
[04:52:55] <uw> the mesa kit i will have to buy myself as my mom is buying the bbb
[04:53:12] <Mr_Mayhem> I think it is a game changer for sure. I want one just to get into it and make motors move.
[04:53:21] <Mr_Mayhem> I see.
[04:53:44] <uw> it does hav ealot of io but i dont like that the hispeed io is mapped to the onboard flash
[04:54:19] <uw> yea i try to keep it easy so she can buy from amazon. if i asked for the mesa kit shed probably get the wrong one
[04:54:56] <Mr_Mayhem> Does that mapping arrangement slow it down, or is the issue something else?
[04:55:48] <Mr_Mayhem> Yeah, cnc xmas planning is funny, "you want me to buy WHAT again?!"
[04:58:45] <uw> the high speed chan that is mapped to the headers is also used for emmc
[04:59:02] <uw> yea its the same here LOL
[04:59:07] <uw> it's just easier
[04:59:31] <uw> i plan to get the mesa thing when i get farther along on my big mill conversion
[05:01:25] <Mr_Mayhem> For the faint of heart, is the BBB setup mainly a matter of using an premade image file, or do you have to follow a crazy long setup procedure? I would start out with one with the linuxcnc already flashed I guess. I am a linux newbie...
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[05:02:05] <uw> from what i've read it's not that hard. do you have a rasperry pi? to boot from sd it is similar
[05:03:00] <uw> for internal flash, it is still simmilar but with another step (ftping kernel/ramdisk/squash to the on board emmc)
[05:03:02] <Mr_Mayhem> No, but I am familiar somewhat with the basic procedure. I think I understand. Where I get lost is the apparent sea of conole commands.
[05:03:37] <uw> theres a lot of tutorials out there im sure and if you need help i'll have mine in a few weeks and can tell you if you need it
[05:03:51] <uw> i'm usually on here
[05:04:11] <Mr_Mayhem> Cool beans. Thanks, nice to know. What kind of cnc do you have?
[05:05:24] <Mr_Mayhem> I am running a YooCNC6040 http://www.carving-cnc.com/cnc6040-series/cnc-6040z-s80-new-router-engraver-drilling-and-milling-machine.html
[05:05:58] <Mr_Mayhem> My first cnc. I use it to do printed circuit boards and acrylic.
[05:06:40] <uw> cool i have a sherline thats cnc converter with bipolar steppers with a very old bipolar driver that i got working. i run it though the parallel port of my laptop (linux cnc)
[05:06:53] <uw> that engraving machine looks nice
[05:07:14] <uw> can that do metals like brass alum steel?
[05:08:10] <uw> i'm converting my mill drill right now and it will run these 400oz brushless servos that were cheap on ebay and have very little documentation
[05:08:36] <Mr_Mayhem> Its more rugged and precise than I expected. The probe pad was wired in reverse, and the electronics are subject to noise due to poor grounding, but I figure the MESA setup and better grounding/shielding will help.
[05:08:46] <uw> but i was able to find that they take standard +/-10v so the mesa kit that you have will work for me too i think
[05:08:55] <Mr_Mayhem> It can do light aluminum, like 1/4 inch slow.
[05:09:12] <uw> oh i see so it's a chinese import
[05:09:26] <uw> but hey sometimes (like you did) after a little tweeking they can be bine
[05:09:27] <Mr_Mayhem> But it excels at plastic and wood. Yes chinese.
[05:09:27] <uw> fine
[05:10:01] <uw> i have a chinese indexer for my big mill and it's not great but does work so i'm glad i made the purchase
[05:10:37] <uw> plus it was $150 vs $xxxx for a US one
[05:10:43] <Mr_Mayhem> The finest part I think is the spindle. It is water cooled and very quiet compared to air cooled motors.
[05:11:04] <uw> oh wow a water cooled spindle sounds fancy
[05:11:09] <uw> does it have high rpm?
[05:11:18] <Mr_Mayhem> 25,000 RPM
[05:11:25] <Mr_Mayhem> Max
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[05:13:26] <uw> sounds cool
[05:13:39] <uw> i want to get that too one day
[05:13:39] <Mr_Mayhem> I was concerned about it at first, but it is quite right in most respects. I mounted the pump to a tupperware box lid and filled it with water and antifreeze.
[05:13:53] <uw> real high speed spindle for making fine cuts
[05:14:09] <uw> cool did it come with pump?
[05:14:13] <Mr_Mayhem> Yes
[05:14:14] <uw> for watercooling?
[05:14:16] <Mr_Mayhem> Yes
[05:14:24] <uw> ah neat
[05:14:47] <uw> all said and done if thats a complete kit $1500 isn't a bad deal for what you get
[05:15:14] <Mr_Mayhem> Experts say to put a small ceramic capacitor across the leads at the pump to kill radio frequency noise, but I still have to do that.
[05:15:51] <Mr_Mayhem> Shipped to my home was about $1950.00 with shipping and duty was like $30.00
[05:16:03] <Mr_Mayhem> I am in Las Vegas.
[05:16:20] <uw> oh ok so not much more
[05:16:31] <uw> still not a bad deal really
[05:16:47] <uw> cnc has come down so much in price over the years its great
[05:17:33] <Mr_Mayhem> For the money it's great. I wish they did better electronics, but the drivers seem improved compared with the older "blue controller box" version. The breakout board was very minumal.
[05:18:55] <uw> neat indeed
[05:19:13] <uw> i see it came with the "auto tool setting" z setter
[05:19:23] <uw> just curious what do you cut with your machine?
[05:19:29] <Mr_Mayhem> By minimal I mean I had to solder the output wires to the board for the limit switches. That went ok. But I had some static later on, and the whole thing died. I think I fried the breakout or the parallel port. So on to Mesa boards...
[05:20:32] <Mr_Mayhem> Yeah, auto tool is noting more than a probe shorting signal. They wired it backwards (reverse polarity) Allagator clip was positive should be negative ground.
[05:21:16] <uw> ah yea thats the kinda shotty stuff that you can expect
[05:21:27] <uw> shouldnt be that big deal to change and then you have a cool feature
[05:21:46] <uw> i want one of them so i can do cleaner PCBs
[05:22:17] <Mr_Mayhem> So when the probe was just plugged into the back of the control box, it would make all kinds of interference with the steppers.
[05:22:20] <uw> the ones i make now arent very good and i think that z finder will help with cleaning them up
[05:22:59] <Mr_Mayhem> For pcbs I highly recommend you try autoleveler app. Saved me from z axis leveling headaches.
[05:23:21] <uw> do you have more info about the autoleveler app?
[05:23:30] <Mr_Mayhem> http://www.autoleveller.co.uk/
[05:23:32] <uw> i have set tram time and time again but i think it's the board that is slopy
[05:24:14] <Mr_Mayhem> Yeah, PCB boards are often warped or curved.
[05:24:58] <uw> yea ive been reading that. I've seen a similar program to this that was in python but i havent tried it out
[05:25:36] <Mr_Mayhem> To use autoleveler, you set up the grid of probes, then run the generated gcode and it will probe and then mill. Keep the total probe count below 200 to avoid linuxcnc error. The count is displayed in the app.
[05:25:38] <uw> so you just use your .gc and it out puts an offset .gc?
[05:26:19] <Mr_Mayhem> Not exactly. I asked the developer to do that, and we had long discussion in the forum there.
[05:26:38] <Mr_Mayhem> What it does is probe and mill from the file it makes from your file.
[05:27:33] <Mr_Mayhem> So each time you run the output file, it probes and then mills. Reboot if interruped is wise. Still in beta, but worked for me with real pcb milling.
[05:28:27] <Mr_Mayhem> When you run it, your tool should be 9mm or so above the copper.
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[05:29:26] <uw> hm ok so you give this program your .gc, it takes that and uses that to decide where to probe, then it just runs the .gc and offsets what it has probed?
[05:29:46] <Mr_Mayhem> you have to set the probe boundaries to insure all probes hit copper, not outside. Or it will punch down too far with nothing to tell it to stop. Set probe depth to -2 works well for me. -1 gave me an error that it finised the move with no contact.
[05:31:18] <Mr_Mayhem> Yeah, the offsets are stored in local linuxcnc variables and then it mills using those stored offsets from the probing part of the run(the first thing is does is probe, then it pauses. Set the safe height to enough to leave room to change the tool!)
[05:31:46] <Mr_Mayhem> Then it mills using the offsets it just determined.
[05:31:53] <Mr_Mayhem> All in the same run.
[05:32:10] <uw> oh ok so it is more integrated into linuxcnc than i thought
[05:32:20] <uw> not bad way either
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[05:33:02] <Mr_Mayhem> It works with Mach3 also.
[05:33:58] <uw> i saw that, but i was confused where it says "utoLeveller is not tied to any particular CNC control software"
[05:34:14] <Mr_Mayhem> I was asking the developer to make it save the probe cloud to a file for future use so the final run NC file would be leveled with no need to probe again. He is a busy guy, we will see.
[05:34:33] <uw> yes thats what i was thinking how it would work
[05:34:40] <uw> still good for him he did this work anyway
[05:34:45] <uw> it's better than nothing
[05:35:35] <uw> ok i got to go see you later Mr_Mayhem thanks for info
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[05:36:02] <Mr_Mayhem> Yeah, its a big deal for hobbests to be able to correct z axis variations on their table or workpiece. I bought a probe from cnc4pc.com to be able to use it for long cuts on acrylic, not only pcb copper or aluminim.
[05:36:06] <Mr_Mayhem> ok
[05:36:12] <Mr_Mayhem> have a good one.
[05:39:09] <Mr_Mayhem> Autoleveler with a probe will rock for long pockets where z always varies too much.
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[06:43:04] <ds3> anyone got recommendations for high speed spindle refits for a desktop mill?
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[06:45:36] <Mr_Mayhem> I enjoy my chinese spindle very much. I am using a 1500 watt 80mm watercooled spindle and it has been great so far. Best part is that it is much quieter.
[06:47:32] <Mr_Mayhem> They are all over ebay, also lok at http://www.automationtechnologiesinc.com/products-page/cnc-spindle
[06:48:10] <RyanS> I've never used a vfd drill press. with a belt drive you set the RPM as near as possible to CS x 4 / D but with infinitely variable are you trying to hit the motors synchronous speed or its full load speed? (Although I guess we are only talking about 30 RPM +/-)
[06:48:13] <Mr_Mayhem> I have not bought from them, but I have read good things about that firm.
[06:50:07] <Mr_Mayhem> Well a spindle for a big metal mill is another matter perhaps than what I offered. I would look at the mods for the bigger machines like grizzly mods and up from there, if you need a slower high torque kind of thing.
[06:50:38] <Mr_Mayhem> Mine is more like an oversized dental drill kind of animal.
[06:50:51] <Mr_Mayhem> Er11 collet.
[06:53:42] <Mr_Mayhem> I bought some parts from these guys and they are responsive: http://ugracnc.com/
[06:54:40] <Mr_Mayhem> They sell nice mill spindles and could offer some good advice. Probably a little more money than the chinese cheapies, but they gurantee the runout figures.
[06:55:13] <RyanS> It's a shame those spindles don't come with ER 32, that would make a pretty good lathe spindle
[06:56:27] <Mr_Mayhem> You can get er20 I think. Look at the 1800 and 2200 watt ones. They are also 80mm in some cases with the larger collet.
[06:57:01] <Mr_Mayhem> 80mm diameter with larger collet. Same as my 80mm chinese 1500 watter.
[07:00:01] <Mr_Mayhem> Here is an example of er20 collet spindle: http://www.automationtechnologiesinc.com/products-page/cnc-spindle/2200-milling-spindle
[07:00:45] <RyanS> I was thinking about a CNC lathe, linear rails, gang tools. Someone had used the headstock from a cheap mini lathe not a bad idea but if you use a three jaw chuck you are going to have to dial in the part every time
[07:00:50] <mrsun_> http://www.sorotec.de/shop/product_info.php/info/p3662_tool-changer-for-china-spindle.html i wonder if those can be fitted to a 80mm china spindle =)
[07:04:06] <Mr_Mayhem> At first glance I would say yes, that is the idea of their invention. But need a closer look.
[07:06:04] <Mr_Mayhem> their example chinese spindle pdf is a 65mm spindle, but the shaft looks exactly right at a glance.
[07:07:00] <mrsun_> yeah but i guess the housing changes to the 80mm .. just a gut feeling ;P so if it will mount to to the external housing good enough or not
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[07:07:10] <mrsun_> that little tool changer looks neat =)
[07:07:14] <mrsun_> quite expensive tho but
[07:09:04] <RyanS> er20 maximum diameter is a little bit small for lathes
[07:10:26] <RyanS> Any good as a lathe spindle ? http://www.tormach.com/store/index.php?app=ecom&ns=prodshow&ref=30505
[07:11:32] <Mr_Mayhem> yeah, that is a different thing. I thought you were asking about a spindle for a mill, or was that another person here? That toolchanger looks like a good find. I would like to determine the runout for it and if it fits 80mm chinese spindle as well. I guess one could email them and look for other videos or descriptions on the web.
[07:12:55] <RyanS> I was just hijacking the question :p
[07:13:19] <mrsun_> tried emailing them and all i got was a link to the pdf they link to on the page :P dont think they know much about what they are selling :P (in my case its about a router spindle :P ) and yes i was also hijacking as i saw talk about china spindles :P
[07:13:19] <mrsun_> hehe
[07:13:26] <mrsun_> oh well, time to go do some work
[07:13:35] <Mr_Mayhem> I thought a lathe usually has a chuck driven by a gear reduced motor. I am a bit confused as to how a spindle would work. Not enough toqure I think, too much rpm.
[07:14:27] <Mr_Mayhem> fine business. Nice chat and look foward to more good finds...
[07:16:45] <RyanS> Probably this was the idea i saw http://www.cnczone.com/forums/vertical_mill_lathe_project_log/40584-benchtop_computer-numeric-control_lathe_build-14.html
[07:18:05] <Mr_Mayhem> Will check out. Here is another page with more pics of the toolchanger you mentioned:
[07:18:06] <Mr_Mayhem> http://www.usovo.de/shop/Tool-Changer-and-HF-Spindles/Tool-Changer-Systems/WZW-Adapter-Tool-Changer/China-spindle-Toolchanger/Toolchangersystem-China-Spindle::634.html
[07:18:14] <RyanS> Although this one involved de-stressing the metal and hand scraping (and is that really necessary for linear rails?)
[07:18:19] <Mr_Mayhem> It fits 65mm only.
[07:19:33] <Mr_Mayhem> That lathe looks pretty beefy bad-ass for a desktop model hehe.
[07:19:42] <Mr_Mayhem> Huge motor.
[07:20:11] <Mr_Mayhem> That's more like what I picture when I think of a desktop lathe.
[07:21:03] <Mr_Mayhem> You can get vfds to control motors like that, but you have to dive into the details.
[07:22:15] <RyanS> Apparently he had that motor lying around
[07:22:40] <RyanS> I would think 750w would be more appropriate
[07:23:13] <Mr_Mayhem> Mesa electronics sells an hbridge card for huge motors for like $250. I think it is for dc brushless motors. All depends on the kind of motor as to what to use to drive it.
[07:25:27] <Mr_Mayhem> He said he uses this vfd to drive his motor:
[07:25:28] <Mr_Mayhem> V
[07:25:30] <Mr_Mayhem> http://www.automationdirect.com/adc/Shopping/Catalog/Drives/GS2_%28115_-z-_230_-z-_460_-z-_575_VAC_V-z-Hz_Control%29/GS2_Drive_Units_%28115_-z-_230_-z-_460_-z-_575_VAC%29/GS2-11P0
[07:29:11] <RyanS> Is it really necessary to hand scraped the bed to mount the linear rails? I was thinking get a length of heavy structural rectangular tube, drill/tap, attach some ground stock spacers under the rails (shim if necessary) and fill the tube with epoxy granite
[07:29:37] <RyanS> or concrete even?
[07:32:34] <Mr_Mayhem> I have heard of polymer concrete mixes in high end mill bases.
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[07:33:34] <Mr_Mayhem> Google has a ton of hits on that subject: https://www.google.com/#q=Polomer+concrete+cnc
[07:34:04] <RyanS> I've seen a few, the materials aren't all that cheap. However
[07:34:18] <RyanS> epoxy is not that cheap
[07:36:12] <Mr_Mayhem> I didn't know it was so popular in the diy cnc world. Interesting. On scraping the bed, you mean to level it so the rails are nice and straight?
[07:37:36] <Mr_Mayhem> Info on the art of hand scraping: http://www.mtsunlimited.com/machine-tool-services/hand-scraping.html
[07:37:53] <Mr_Mayhem> hmmm
[07:38:11] <RyanS> they usually do it with traditional slide ways , but I wonder how necessary it is for attaching a linear rail
[07:38:36] <Mr_Mayhem> Are you using retcangular rails or round
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[07:38:48] <RyanS> You could just shim perhaps
[07:39:09] <Mr_Mayhem> I think rectangular ones are much more sensative to unlevelness.
[07:39:17] <RyanS> Rectangular . However, I don't have a milling machine at the moment, so
[07:40:06] <RyanS> I suppose you could weld and then and take it to a shop and have the top surface ground
[07:40:32] <RyanS> And then attach the rails
[07:40:43] <Mr_Mayhem> Why not mount the rails via nuts on threaded anchor points, so you can adjust after the fact?
[07:41:22] <Mr_Mayhem> I am no expert, but seems to me it would be nice to be able to take a wrench to the mounts to micro adjust later as needed.
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[07:43:05] <RyanS> That would be similar to shimming, and I would be worried that without lock nuts and thread lock compound they would vibrate loose
[07:43:36] <RyanS> I guess you could use a locking washers
[07:44:34] <Mr_Mayhem> or perhaps those plastic loaded lock nuts. I have one on my x axis nut for the end of the ballscrew.
[07:45:48] <Mr_Mayhem> the pros put their flats through a lapping machine, that gets very precise but expensive work.
[07:46:45] <RyanS> oh yeah. hmm I think this project is a bit too ambitious with only small manual latheand drill press at my disposal
[07:47:28] <mseidl> are there any other cnc chat rooms on freenode?
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[07:47:43] <RyanS> I want to make a linishing machine, they aren't too complicated
[07:49:14] <Mr_Mayhem> I would google "cnc machine freenode irc chat" to find other chat rooms, I donno others.
[07:49:23] <Mr_Mayhem> Sorry, what kind of machine?
[07:49:46] <RyanS> Belt grinder
[07:50:02] <Deejay> moin
[07:50:39] <Mr_Mayhem> ok. Nice for flattening edges and deburring I imagine.
[07:52:28] <Mr_Mayhem> I would find one of those handy for rounding sharp edges after milling a part.
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[07:54:02] <Mr_Mayhem> There is an electronics room and a reprap room on freenode.
[07:55:37] <RyanS> This design is simple . I'm just not sure if it could be adapted to use a wider belt http://www.britishblades.com/forums/showthread.php?75456-My-KMG-Clone-Grinder-Finished-%28-almost-%29
[07:56:30] <Mr_Mayhem> nice. Is that a skateboard bearing? hehe. Neat design.
[07:56:34] <RyanS> The wheel slides out and you can have different attachments like a flat plate
[07:58:41] <Mr_Mayhem> clever. So with the flat plate it can be used to guide a workpiece past the belt?
[07:59:30] <RyanS> Is based on this http://www.beaumontmetalworks.com/shop/category.aspx?catid=20 you can get different attachments. I believe
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[08:01:40] <RyanS> I would be tempted to use two pieces of telescoping tube for the attachment I don't know how necessary that bolted together box is
[08:02:17] <Mr_Mayhem> I see now. I see a plate in front so one could grind blades or chisels, etc like a normal wheel grinder.
[08:03:06] <Mr_Mayhem> I guess it just has to be rigid to avoid movement or vibrations.
[08:03:46] <Mr_Mayhem> Wow they get good money for the original.
[08:04:08] <Mr_Mayhem> But it's nicely overbuilt.
[08:04:43] <RyanS> No wonder people build clone and all you need is a drill press and some taps if you buy the wheels
[08:05:30] <RyanS> Actually you probably do need a lathe
[08:05:49] <Mr_Mayhem> yeah. There are great websites with all kinds of gears and wheels and bearings, etc for machine builders. I had one up but my browser crashed.
[08:07:07] <RyanS> This is one of the full size industrial types http://d1nkyhl3ve6mcm.cloudfront.net/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/a284ad3693e86094885231980d1fee06/2/0/2000.75.p1.jpg but it's much to big
[08:08:10] <Mr_Mayhem> If you have a lathe and a mill and a drill press and a grinder, you are off to the races. I guess for most of us it is a one-at-a-time affair.
[08:09:06] <Mr_Mayhem> Wow while big, that design is so simple.
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[08:10:12] <Mr_Mayhem> What are you aiming to make in your shop? Anything particular?
[08:10:26] <RyanS> I don't see how its necessary to have a VFD grinder like other one.... bench grinder is only single speed
[08:11:13] <Mr_Mayhem> I guess if the speed you were stuck with made material burn, you would like to be able to slow it down.
[08:11:49] <RyanS> I want to build some small steam and engines some sort of mechanical arty things, but so far I have done nothing but modified tools
[08:12:13] <Mr_Mayhem> Nice to have a knob for that instead of pulleys I suppose. But the pulleys probably give better torque than a speed control slowed down.
[08:12:19] <RyanS> Steam engines*
[08:13:13] <RyanS> that's something I will find out since I just got a drill press converted to variable
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[08:13:26] <Mr_Mayhem> I always looked at the steam engine builders with envy. Amazing metal work. Highly technical to make it all fit I imagine.
[08:14:26] <Mr_Mayhem> Hehe, don't want your motor to bog down too much. I think it would be more of an issue with larger tools or the grinder with a large contact area to grind.
[08:15:17] <RyanS> I think I will stick to the really simpl models
[08:16:30] <Mr_Mayhem> I have done printed circuit boards, acrylic milling, and some wood jigs. I made an enclosure out of 2x4s and used the cnc to cut the dowel pin holes. Dowl pins are very strong and I can take the frame apart with wrench to fit through doorways.
[08:17:25] <Mr_Mayhem> The enclosure keeps the dust from flying everywhere.
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[08:18:16] <Mr_Mayhem> Have you done any drawings on cad or sketchup, etc?
[08:19:26] <RyanS> cool. At the moment I have the VFD for the drill press set to a maximum of 100 Hz/3000 rpm, I think the drive can do 500 Hz, but that could do nothing good for the bearings in the drill press, surely
[08:20:04] <RyanS> I've quite a bit of CAD
[08:21:07] <Mr_Mayhem> Hehe, fried bearings no good, yeah. Neat. Ya know you can use one of those AC transformers with a big knob on front to do speed control on various ac powered motors. I use it to turn down my vacuum cleaner or dremel tool.
[08:21:50] <Mr_Mayhem> Variable ac transformer kind of animal I mean.
[08:22:05] <Mr_Mayhem> Variac. There.
[08:22:21] <RyanS> varying the voltage is not good for motors I read?
[08:22:35] <RyanS> I can't remember what the implications are
[08:22:38] <archivist> depends on motor type
[08:23:02] <Mr_Mayhem> I have read this also, but I have not fried anything yet. Maybe on big high torque motors under load, yeah a potential frying.
[08:23:22] <archivist> universal ac/dc dont mind variac too much
[08:24:07] <archivist> some dremels have the speed control built in, a triac type
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[08:24:43] <RyanS> hmm, I guess, since the maximum rpm of the belt drive on my drill press is 2800, 3000 is a pretty safe limit
[08:24:52] <Mr_Mayhem> Yeah, I have the old Dremel tool which dosen't have the speed control, so I cheat with the variac, hehe.
[08:27:18] <RyanS> Im still debating whether to remove the centre pulley and have only a single belt, reduced friction and so forth
[08:29:22] <Mr_Mayhem> I guess the best way to find out is by experiment. If it runs now ok, maybe leave it be to avoid making problems. If its sluggish, maybe a tuneup is in order.
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[08:30:35] <Mr_Mayhem> The biggest issue I bet is stalling out under low speed and high load. And then your bit is stuck in a workpiece.
[08:32:53] <Mr_Mayhem> It may take a little longer, but a low gear may be better to avoid stalls if you are doing heavy work. Otherwise, no worry, but keep from going too fast for the bearings.
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[08:34:13] <RyanS> It's 1.5 kw and the maximum drill size is specified as 32 mm , but I can't imagine needing to go beyond 20 mm very often
[08:34:13] <Mr_Mayhem> But this is all common sense anyway.
[08:34:50] <Mr_Mayhem> What is the pully ratio from the motor to the bit?
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[08:35:58] <RyanS> Not sure, it has 12 speeds between 180 and about 2800
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[08:36:51] <RyanS> Just going to try 1:1
[08:36:56] <Mr_Mayhem> And your vfd is powering the original motor in place?
[08:37:09] <RyanS> yeah
[08:37:20] <Mr_Mayhem> hehe
[08:37:54] <Mr_Mayhem> Well, sounds like you have all the adjustment you need with the 12 speeds at your disposal.
[08:38:07] <RyanS> Maximum of 100 Hz its 4 pole
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[08:38:15] <archivist> well over sized for making models
[08:38:55] <RyanS> I got it mainly for the variable speed to avoid belt changes
[08:39:03] <Mr_Mayhem> Yes, sounds like a nice full size drill press.
[08:39:36] <RyanS> I find myself mostly building things much larger than models
[08:39:51] <Mr_Mayhem> As long as the ratios are not too far from ideal, you will be fine just adjusting the vfd.
[08:41:29] <Mr_Mayhem> What are some examples of such larger things if I may ask?
[08:41:41] <Mr_Mayhem> Now you have me curious.
[08:42:09] <Mr_Mayhem> Project X! (dramatic music)...
[08:42:48] <RyanS> Since I have a small lathe, if I need to do a large bore it would be much quicker to centre drill and hog it out with large drills on the drill press
[08:43:39] <RyanS> Nothing too excited frame for my bandsaw, a vertical table for it, brackets and stuff
[08:43:51] <RyanS> Exciting*
[08:45:08] <RyanS> disastrous chuck adapter and wasted chunk of cast-iron
[08:45:32] <Mr_Mayhem> Funny how we start a shop to make things, and we end up making the shop with the shop. Bootstrapping 101 I guess.
[08:46:13] <RyanS> It took forever and a day to bore 30 mm
[08:46:25] <Mr_Mayhem> On the lathe?
[08:46:48] <Mr_Mayhem> How deep is the hole?
[08:47:09] <RyanS> yeah, although I don't have any drill bits bigger than 14mm
[08:47:23] <RyanS> I think it was about 40 mm
[08:48:04] <Mr_Mayhem> Were the chips coming out as a spiral or grandular bits?
[08:48:33] <RyanS> And I really doubt that lathe could handle a 25 mm drill bit
[08:48:51] <Mr_Mayhem> Hehe, you need a bigger lathe it sounds like to me.
[08:49:09] <RyanS> I thought cast-iron always comes out like dust
[08:49:22] <Mr_Mayhem> Good question. I donno.
[08:49:29] <Mr_Mayhem> Never done it.
[08:50:23] <Mr_Mayhem> I would be sure to use an ideal as possible tool. If that's wrong, maybe it could explain the difficulty.
[08:51:19] <Mr_Mayhem> By tool I mean cutting tool, but of course a bigger lathe would help too.
[08:51:37] <RyanS> I think it's 150 mm by 350. Is reasonably small, but it's not one of those mount on a chopping board and store in a cupboard type
[08:52:48] <Mr_Mayhem> What kind of cutting tool?
[08:53:34] <RyanS> To bore cast-iron?
[08:53:57] <Mr_Mayhem> The tool you used to do the difficult hole?
[08:54:17] <Mr_Mayhem> Was it a drill?
[08:55:16] <Mr_Mayhem> Or some kind of reaming tool?
[08:55:20] <RyanS> Just drilled and then used a cheap carbide index boring bar,, but HSS seem to give a better finish
[08:55:54] <RyanS> don't have any HSS boring bars. However
[08:58:59] <Mr_Mayhem> Was there resonant vibration issues?
[08:59:20] <Mr_Mayhem> Like it made a screeching or something else?
[09:00:38] <RyanS> I should note I only know theory, I have a disability so I do the CAD design and so forth and have someone working 10 hours a week to operate machinery... I have someone at the moment, who was a machinist many years back
[09:01:59] <Mr_Mayhem> That sounds like the way to do it. Then you can do the design and he can work the machines.
[09:02:38] <Mr_Mayhem> What cad platform do you favor?
[09:03:19] <RyanS> Actually it was screeching quite badly. The previous assistant I had was a mechanical engineering student used to program CNC machining centres , but I don't think whole lot of experience operating manual machines but seemed perfectly capable
[09:03:58] <RyanS> It's hard for me to judge considering I've never touched a machine tool
[09:04:24] <Mr_Mayhem> Yeah, there are so many insider secrets learned only by working real machines of the old variety.
[09:04:57] <Mr_Mayhem> Some of the pros use lead in a hollowed out boring bar to dampen the resonance.
[09:05:11] <RyanS> Solidworks
[09:05:49] <Mr_Mayhem> Nice. I wish I had that. Can't afford it at normal prices.
[09:06:07] <Mr_Mayhem> I got Sketchup to jump through hoops though!
[09:06:47] <RyanS> hmmm . Let's say I use trial versions
[09:06:48] <Mr_Mayhem> I can even write scripts to say, draw a part and put a matrix of holes through it.
[09:07:29] <RyanS> I might play around with some cam software
[09:07:30] <Mr_Mayhem> Hehe, I understand. My trial version gave me too many nag screens. Maybe I bittorrent again and try my luck.
[09:08:34] <Mr_Mayhem> I like cambam as a great intro to cam. I use it to make gcode for my little chinese router mill.
[09:09:52] <RyanS> Actually I want to get a benchtop CNC mill so that I can jog it using a mouse if I want to do ' manual' operations
[09:10:26] <RyanS> Although I don't really want to convert one with 10 hours a week. I think it would take far too long
[09:10:32] <Mr_Mayhem> That is quite easy. Basic gcode is not too difficult either, really.
[09:11:15] <archivist> you can use MDI to jog in gcode
[09:11:38] <Mr_Mayhem> Yeah, seems everyone is converting this and that. You would think the sellers would take the clue and just make a cnc version that costs about the same as the conversions.
[09:12:07] <archivist> your moves are then defined and not vague mouse wanderings
[09:12:44] <Mr_Mayhem> Yeah, you can type in a gcode command and off it goes at a preset speed.
[09:13:01] <RyanS> Sorry, what I meant was using the arrows on mach3
[09:13:21] <Mr_Mayhem> Easy for straight line routing stuff.
[09:13:44] <RyanS> But no reason why I would not just program the entire part,
[09:14:12] <Mr_Mayhem> Right. Its not a big deal. And there are many freebie tools to make it east.
[09:14:22] <Mr_Mayhem> easy, rather.
[09:14:46] <RyanS> I just can't bring myself to drop enough cash for even a tormach 770.. It would be an easier choice if I were not in Australia because it adds a significant cost, even from a local distributor
[09:15:27] <RyanS> Who is not so local but interstate
[09:15:43] <Mr_Mayhem> A tormach is a dream machine from where I am standing. I use a $2,000 chinese router mill.
[09:16:09] <Mr_Mayhem> Here. http://www.carving-cnc.com/cnc6040-series/cnc-6040z-s80-new-router-engraver-drilling-and-milling-machine.html
[09:16:44] <RyanS> You can save a bit of money with a sieg x4, but do I really want to spend that much money and have something that is going to break down with virtually no support
[09:16:46] <Mr_Mayhem> It's not big for large panel work, but enough to get me making useful parts.
[09:17:27] <RyanS> Did the controller work out of the box?
[09:17:40] <RyanS> Not X4. It was called something else
[09:19:20] <Mr_Mayhem> How about the TM20VL?
[09:19:46] <Mr_Mayhem> here is an Aussy video series on it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CgWmVWNj7NY
[09:20:12] <RyanS> I'm thinking perhaps something like benchtop engraver, I can practice with in the house but something that will remain useful if I ever get a CNC mill
[09:20:53] <RyanS> I have considered that, but it needs to be converted and he had to put the bed on a big milling machine to modify it
[09:21:24] <Mr_Mayhem> That's kinda the route I went. Start with a small router/engraver, and then move up to a real metal cutter or mill conversion project.
[09:22:05] <Mr_Mayhem> Except I have yet to go to the bigger machine. I have a lot still to do before that.
[09:22:41] <RyanS> So the machine costs 2000, the conversion hardware 1000, controller, motors, VFD it starts to add up
[09:23:37] <Mr_Mayhem> Yeah, you will get to $5000 with quick change tormach tooling added on.
[09:24:24] <RyanS> a tormach probably is going to cost a reasonable amount more but I can use it straight away and have support and parts if it breaks down
[09:24:48] <RyanS> I don't know how many hours in total, it would take to convert
[09:24:53] <Mr_Mayhem> So it's like only a few more grand to get the big Tormach, yeah
[09:26:05] <RyanS> The 1100 is out of the question it's actually huge, judging from the pictures
[09:26:16] <Mr_Mayhem> I think Tormach has a great program. Holy grail next step for sure. Beyond that would take some lottery or commercial success.
[09:26:27] <Mr_Mayhem> Too big for the larger tormach, huh?
[09:27:08] <RyanS> I think 770 is more appropriate for the space I have
[09:28:00] <Mr_Mayhem> Yeah, I could see that. The big one can fill one garage bay with the buffer area around it.
[09:28:21] <RyanS> And plus the extra cost for shipping a large one I would dread to think
[09:28:48] <RyanS> It's already bad enough for 770
[09:28:59] <Mr_Mayhem> Wow, that truck must have one hell of a lift gate, yes.
[09:29:32] <RyanS> And I wonder if that really expensive stand you can get is going to save a lot of shipping if I don't get it
[09:29:55] <Mr_Mayhem> Yeah, and how much work to replace it.
[09:30:10] <Mr_Mayhem> Properly so it dosen't sag.
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[09:30:26] <RyanS> $1800 is excessive for a stannd
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[09:32:08] <Mr_Mayhem> I imagine that is a common topic, how expensive simple things get. I looked at some fancy wireless probes for a laugh, and some are over $10,000. I bought a basic probe for $130 or so delivered.
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[09:32:50] <RyanS> Surely I could get something out of massive box steel fabricated locally without the fancy cabinet for less than $1800 + shipping
[09:32:51] <Mr_Mayhem> That stand is almost the price of my entire machine, :-)
[09:33:43] <Mr_Mayhem> If you know a shop that can do it, why not? Just takes some looking around.
[09:34:22] <Mr_Mayhem> Steel welding a simple base can't be that complicated.
[09:34:36] <RyanS> My assistant knows how to stick weld, but I think it's not going to be easy without proper clamping setup
[09:34:41] <Mr_Mayhem> The issue is the levelness.
[09:34:48] <Mr_Mayhem> And the strength.
[09:35:20] <Mr_Mayhem> Yeah, you need to hold the pieces tight and precisely in a jig.
[09:35:25] <RyanS> And just a a lot of grinding and overloading the poor little welder
[09:35:44] <RyanS> elding machine
[09:36:08] <Mr_Mayhem> Thick steel plate needs a bigger welder probably, yes.
[09:37:03] <Mr_Mayhem> Or a gas one.
[09:37:15] <RyanS> my dad has a mig weld4r, and I tried with my assistant, using flux core and honestl the result was rubbish compared to the stick welder
[09:37:29] <RyanS> Perhaps my assistant is just more experienced with stick
[09:37:41] <RyanS> But it seemed a lot less fussing around
[09:37:58] <toastyde2th> mig requires practice
[09:38:13] <Mr_Mayhem> I have never welded, just read some of the basic how to stuff. It can be a real art and science to do it right.
[09:38:14] <toastyde2th> once you get it down, for hobby shit it turns into a hot metal glue gun - much faster than stick and less messy
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[09:38:21] <toastyde2th> flux core is bullshit, though
[09:38:36] <toastyde2th> shield gas is the way to go unless you're in a windy spot, then you use flux core + sheild gas
[09:38:49] <toastyde2th> this whole "flux core only" thing isn't the panacea people make it out to be
[09:39:10] <Tom_itx> don't you reverse polarity with flux core as well?
[09:39:28] <toastyde2th> I forget, it's been a long ass time since i've welded in general
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[09:39:50] <toastyde2th> i can't see offhand why you would
[09:39:51] <Tom_itx> i got a spool of it but i've honestly never used it
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[09:40:02] <Tom_itx> stick with the solid wire with gas
[09:40:11] <Mr_Mayhem> So you mean shield gas brings more benefit than the flux core?
[09:40:27] <Tom_itx> it's cleaner
[09:40:28] <toastyde2th> sheild gas by itself is a shitty gimmick, you need sheild gas if you're using mig
[09:40:31] <toastyde2th> er
[09:40:33] <toastyde2th> flux core by itself
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[09:40:53] <toastyde2th> the reason flux core exists is to assist welding in breezy areas
[09:41:02] <toastyde2th> where you may not be able to keep the shield gas in place long
[09:41:19] <RyanS> But I think given the price of gas, stick is more economical
[09:41:31] <toastyde2th> "economical" if you like doing a shitload of work
[09:41:46] <toastyde2th> mig is faster and cleaner
[09:41:55] <Mr_Mayhem> Yeah, Airgas and Praxair make quite a living from their gas sales.
[09:41:58] <toastyde2th> so it depends on what your constraints are and what you're doing
[09:42:20] <RyanS> are disposable gas bottles a waste of time?
[09:42:29] <toastyde2th> I don't see why you'd go to them
[09:42:29] <Tom_itx> yup
[09:42:37] <toastyde2th> get a smaller bottle
[09:42:39] <toastyde2th> rent it
[09:42:44] <gonzo__> in the uk, it's common to use beer CO2 bottles
[09:42:55] <toastyde2th> plumbers often carry little football bottles
[09:43:04] <toastyde2th> filled with whatever mix they use most
[09:43:11] <Tom_itx> i've never tried CO2, always used tri mix or argon
[09:43:17] <gonzo__> they turn up surplus and I can get them refilled for about £7.50
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[09:44:06] <RyanS> Okay but let's say you want to do a bit of CRS, then stainless then a bit of aluminium
[09:44:14] <gonzo__> stell with pure argon seems to burn too hot (not sure why), tried it when out of CO2. Not trird mix, as pure CO2 is easyer to get
[09:44:22] <RyanS> don't you need three different types of gas
[09:44:39] <Tom_itx> argon for aluminum
[09:44:52] <Mr_Mayhem> You mean welder folks get stampeded into using more expensive options that aren't necessary.
[09:45:02] <gonzo__> never had much success with mig on ali
[09:45:11] <Tom_itx> no not really
[09:45:23] <Tom_itx> not unless you have a really good welder
[09:45:25] <Tom_itx> with pulse
[09:46:09] <Tom_itx> afik most aluminum is done with tig
[09:46:28] <gonzo__> TIG is the usual way here
[09:46:30] <toastyde2th> I like doing most things with tig
[09:46:49] <gonzo__> would love a tig set, but can't justify the cost
[09:46:55] <Mr_Mayhem> What is ideal for steel plate like RyanS's base for cnc machine?
[09:46:56] <toastyde2th> i'd rather do tig over stick any day of the week
[09:46:58] <RyanS> I'm not interested in welding aluminium. However can a single gas mix cover carbon steel and stainless?
[09:47:12] <toastyde2th> RyanS, i don't remember
[09:47:14] <toastyde2th> google will tell you
[09:47:21] <gonzo__> my brother is an ali fabricator, so tend to get him to do my ali welding
[09:47:40] <toastyde2th> how heavy is this machine
[09:47:50] <Mr_Mayhem> looking it up.
[09:47:51] <RyanS> I would have tig if I could use it
[09:47:51] <toastyde2th> is it something like a 20x60 lathe
[09:48:04] <toastyde2th> or is it something small like a desktop mill
[09:48:29] <toastyde2th> for small machines the base doesn't matter a whole hell of a lot because there's little force being transferred
[09:48:46] <RyanS> bbl
[09:48:58] <RyanS> It probably doesn't matter. I guess
[09:49:08] <Mr_Mayhem> 660 lbs with cast iron frame. (Machine weight, excludes stand and accessories)
[09:49:16] <toastyde2th> that's itty bitty
[09:50:11] <Mr_Mayhem> No big deal for a steel box frame I guess.
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[09:50:21] <toastyde2th> the cross bracing will be more important, obviously, but I've seen stands for machines in that weight class that are like, fairly thin sheet goods
[09:50:56] <toastyde2th> it's more important to resist torsion than it is raw weight
[09:51:06] <Mr_Mayhem> So it would not be too expensive to slightly overbuild it against torsion.
[09:51:17] <toastyde2th> yeah
[09:51:31] <Mr_Mayhem> I see.
[09:51:45] <toastyde2th> a base that can torque around will be bad for chatter
[09:51:50] <toastyde2th> plus the fact you plan to make it out of steel
[09:51:53] <toastyde2th> won't help
[09:52:38] <Mr_Mayhem> Yeah, you could have resonant modes, etc. So standard truss-like cross braces then?
[09:52:41] <toastyde2th> yep
[09:53:58] <toastyde2th> and have a facility for adjustable feet
[09:54:05] <toastyde2th> and possibly grouting it to the floor, if you can
[09:54:42] <Mr_Mayhem> So one can level it and reduce vibration, I see.
[09:54:50] <toastyde2th> nope, you don't need to level a machine that small
[09:55:13] <toastyde2th> levelling is for machines that have over 4' or so of travel
[09:55:16] <Mr_Mayhem> So what are the adjustable feet for?
[09:55:25] <toastyde2th> support
[09:55:29] <Mr_Mayhem> Ahh
[09:55:31] <toastyde2th> three points define a plane
[09:55:46] <toastyde2th> if you have four feet, at least one of them has to be adjustable or the fourth foot won't touch the ground
[09:56:21] <Mr_Mayhem> I remember, yes that makes sense.
[09:56:45] <toastyde2th> on something like a bridgeport you solve the issue by hammering a wooden wedge under the machine's base
[09:56:53] <toastyde2th> on whatever side is loose
[09:57:04] <toastyde2th> best to have adjustable feet and avoid it entirely
[09:57:55] <Mr_Mayhem> Yeah, avoid the need to wedge.
[09:59:03] <Mr_Mayhem> I have some Mesa cards coming tomorrow for my mill, but I have no idea how to set them up. I guess the tech there will help me out.
[09:59:23] <toastyde2th> no idea, i've never set a cnc up from the control side
[09:59:41] <toastyde2th> i ran and programmed the things, nothing else
[10:00:22] <Mr_Mayhem> I have done a basic setup via the parallel port, but nothing like Mesa before. Should be fun.
[10:00:56] <Mr_Mayhem> I see. What is your preferred cad and cam packages?
[10:00:56] <toastyde2th> i need to go to bed, good luck with your project tomorrow!
[10:01:03] <toastyde2th> I was mostly at the tool programming
[10:01:09] <toastyde2th> so... notepad
[10:01:12] <toastyde2th> and some paper
[10:01:24] <Mr_Mayhem> Old skool.
[10:01:29] <Mr_Mayhem> Nice chat, thanks.
[10:01:37] <toastyde2th> strongly recommend it, too
[10:01:42] <toastyde2th> before moving to cad
[10:01:57] <Mr_Mayhem> I am trying to learn as much gcode as I can.
[10:01:58] <toastyde2th> unless all your stuff is going to be profiles and 3d geometry
[10:02:15] <Mr_Mayhem> Mostly straight cuts and drills.
[10:02:20] <toastyde2th> you'll be able to use the machine for a lot more
[10:02:34] <toastyde2th> CAD is brilliant if you have a moderately complex part that you're making from wholecloth
[10:03:03] <toastyde2th> but if you want to modify parts or repair shit, having a lot of experience writing code by hand makes the tool a lot more versatile
[10:03:03] <Mr_Mayhem> Do you know of any websites that get into this style of programming?
[10:03:11] <toastyde2th> unfortunately no
[10:03:24] <toastyde2th> my recommendation is to keep a FULL list of the codes your control supports by the machine
[10:03:29] <toastyde2th> and constantly reference it
[10:03:39] <toastyde2th> machining is still passed on 99% by experience, even in votech programs
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[10:04:06] <Mr_Mayhem> I guess it is like a lost art of sorts. So compile a list of the codes and get used to writing some scripts with them by hand?
[10:04:17] <toastyde2th> yeah, essentially
[10:04:22] <toastyde2th> I'd draw the next operation out on paper
[10:04:36] <toastyde2th> with all the points listed that the tool would have to move to
[10:04:53] <toastyde2th> so i'd program one tool, and let that tool run
[10:05:05] <toastyde2th> then move to the next tool, and so on
[10:05:31] <toastyde2th> to prove the program you bump the work height up by whatever your max Z move is plus some fudge factor
[10:05:42] <toastyde2th> and just watch the tool go
[10:06:11] <Mr_Mayhem> So you develop a list of points and write the values for each point and then make a program off of the diagram and list.
[10:06:29] <toastyde2th> yeah, but not a list, just label the drawing with points and their x,y coordinates
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[10:06:43] <toastyde2th> that way you can just use your finger and go "Oh, okay, now i'm moving to blahblah"
[10:06:50] <Mr_Mayhem> I see, that way all the points are in context of the part shape.
[10:06:53] <toastyde2th> yep
[10:07:06] <toastyde2th> when I was doing production drawings for the machinists, i actually did that in the drawing
[10:07:10] <toastyde2th> so they didn't have to make any napkin sketches
[10:07:25] <toastyde2th> there would be a base 0,0 point, and every single dimension would be referenced from that point
[10:07:30] <toastyde2th> makes programming very easy
[10:07:32] <Mr_Mayhem> They could just copy over the coordinates and depths.
[10:07:46] <toastyde2th> you can't check a part that way, but you can program a machine that way
[10:07:52] <toastyde2th> just make sure to split tolerances
[10:08:08] <toastyde2th> if you have a tolerance of 5.000 +.005, -.000
[10:08:18] <toastyde2th> that dimension is really 5.0025
[10:08:30] <Mr_Mayhem> You go in the middle of the range?
[10:08:33] <toastyde2th> you have to
[10:08:46] <toastyde2th> otherwise your tool will hit some dimensions and miss others
[10:08:49] <Mr_Mayhem> To stay within the window.
[10:08:58] <toastyde2th> because what happens when you have another tolerance that's symmetric?
[10:09:12] <toastyde2th> you've programmed in a .0025 adjustment to give you some room on the 5.000 dimension
[10:09:27] <toastyde2th> you essentially took away half your allowance just in a programming decision
[10:09:51] <Mr_Mayhem> So that side is "tight"?
[10:09:53] <toastyde2th> yep
[10:10:20] <toastyde2th> honestly programming is stupid easy
[10:10:23] <Mr_Mayhem> So you can't take more on the same side.
[10:10:29] <toastyde2th> people get caught up because they're used to programming computers
[10:10:34] <toastyde2th> a cnc mill is not a computer
[10:10:37] <toastyde2th> in that sense
[10:10:54] <toastyde2th> 95% of your problems will be actual machining problems just like you'd encounter on a manual mill or elsewhere
[10:11:05] <toastyde2th> think primarily about the part, not how you'll program it
[10:11:07] <Mr_Mayhem> Hehe, I agree with you until we get into some crazy curves or 3d stuff.
[10:11:27] <toastyde2th> then your cam package spits out a point cloud and you're done
[10:11:34] <Mr_Mayhem> Right.
[10:11:40] <toastyde2th> you still have to think about the same types of issues, the only difference is where the coordinates are coming from
[10:12:39] <toastyde2th> "Oh shit i drilled into the vise" happens whether it's a hole in sheet metal, or a missed dimension on a turbine
[10:12:57] <Mr_Mayhem> Yeah, even the cam tool requires the same kind of inputs, ultimately. I could see how it could simply get in the way.
[10:12:57] <toastyde2th> anyway sorry, bedtime
[10:13:14] <toastyde2th> cam also happens away from the machine where you can't see fixturing obstructions
[10:13:14] <Mr_Mayhem> ok, fine business.
[10:13:40] <Mr_Mayhem> Yeah, been there before! ouch.
[10:13:51] <Mr_Mayhem> Hit a clamp.
[10:14:07] <Mr_Mayhem> Save z had to be raised.
[10:14:15] <Mr_Mayhem> safe, rather.
[10:14:30] <Mr_Mayhem> Goodnight.
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[11:39:29] <jthornton> Tom_itx, the drill part of hole ops already does peck, you just insert a peck value
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[11:50:05] <archivist> jthornton, did you see my reply yesterday ?
[11:56:53] <jthornton> might not have, let me look
[11:57:20] <jthornton> don't see it in the scroll back
[11:57:40] <archivist> jthornton, yes but it would be nice in my workshop :)
[11:57:55] <archivist> that was already in my watch list but only in my dreams
[11:58:20] <archivist> I assume you were talking about the Denford mill
[11:58:35] <jthornton> ah the small one yes
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[11:59:37] <archivist> I gained the parker drives for one the other day
[12:00:02] <jthornton> nice
[12:00:51] <jthornton> I would like to have a small desktop with a high speed spindle for engraving
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[12:02:01] <archivist> the drives were just L297 298 based
[12:03:11] <jthornton> is that a chip?
[12:03:48] <archivist> yes, was the common stepper driver chip way back
[12:04:09] <jthornton> I thought the number sounded familiar
[12:04:37] <archivist> my starturn has the same drive, when one faild just changed the chips and it was a runner again
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[12:07:10] <jthornton> that's always nice to be able to fix something, I wish I could fix the drive on my 308
[12:07:24] <skunkworks> when are you converting that? ;)
[12:07:49] <jthornton> soon I hope
[12:08:04] <jthornton> been talking to robh about spindle drives
[12:08:40] <skunkworks> is the spindle motor non standard?
[12:09:05] <jthornton> its a siemens servo motor
[12:09:14] <jthornton> AC I think
[12:09:19] <skunkworks> ah
[12:09:19] <archivist> ac/dc?
[12:10:31] <jthornton> I have to pull the motor out to get the name plate data from it so I can order a drive
[12:11:26] <archivist> should you just be able to read the spare parts list for the mill?
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[12:12:15] <jthornton> the servos are not in the parts list
[12:12:24] <archivist> I mean the motor
[12:12:32] <jthornton> it just has a general description in the manual
[12:13:01] <jthornton> the spindle motor is a servo motor I think
[12:13:15] <jthornton> anyhow it is not in the parts manual
[12:13:56] <jthornton> it's one of those when I get some spare time I'll pull it out to get the info
[12:14:30] <jthornton> I think BP had about 3-4 different controls/drives for the Discovery 308
[12:14:40] <skunkworks> http://imagebin.org/281825
[12:15:20] <jthornton> that's one of your spindle motors?
[12:15:22] <skunkworks> spindle for the acroloc - I think it is siemons
[12:15:27] <skunkworks> atleast the drives are
[12:16:12] <jthornton> my CHNC had General Numeric controls
[12:16:23] <archivist> hmm anybody supply morse taper 4 collets
[12:17:19] <jthornton> is that an odd taper?
[12:17:37] <skunkworks> I think the tail stock in the old lathe is 4
[12:17:43] <archivist> http://www.rdgtools.co.uk/acatalog/4_Morse_Taper_Collets.html
[12:18:10] <archivist> RDG is known for cheap crap though
[12:18:12] <skunkworks> and our big drill press
[12:18:51] <skunkworks> (which lately has been mainly used for pressing bearings in and out)
[12:19:41] <archivist> I am thinking how to use the cheap dividing head I got the other day, motor drive it and maybe use it for hobbing
[12:20:25] <skunkworks> neat
[12:20:34] <archivist> skunkworks, last time I used a drill press like that I did not like how the table drooped/bent down :)
[12:20:37] <jthornton> cool
[12:20:48] <jthornton> I still need to motorize my rotary...
[12:21:16] <skunkworks> This is a big drill press - the table is supported with a jack in the center
[12:21:34] <skunkworks> I don't think I have a picture of it
[12:22:00] <archivist> this was scrap as it had been left in suds to go rusty, but seems to be cleaning up to be usable for average/rough work
[12:25:41] <jthornton> you guys look at the G code generator?
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[12:53:17] <skunkworks> I have not yet - hope to soon.. so much to play with.. 7i80, New TP, Gcode generators..
[12:55:37] <jthornton> we don't want you to be bored...
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[12:57:04] <skunkworks> :)
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[13:16:40] <archivist> nor me either
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[13:37:32] * Tom_itx hopes JT-Shop_ gets zigzag working soon before his drills arrive so he can try it out
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[14:03:05] <skunkworks> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U3f1v0aTyvU
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[14:09:00] <archivist> makes my fugly mill less fugly :)
[14:09:18] <skunkworks> heh
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[14:11:58] <archivist> he has a step missing, from the vid, feed blank to stop
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[14:17:14] <archivist> thinking about open electronics to catch chips, I had a PSU expire a couple of days ago, the bench vibration undid a screw in the psu and then there was a bang
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[14:19:21] <skunkworks> we have had cips fall on partially pulled apart extension cords.. POOP
[14:19:26] <skunkworks> heh POP
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[14:26:58] <JT-Shop> same differenc43
[14:27:26] <JT-Shop> Tom_itx, the coding for zig zag should be easy at this point
[14:29:08] <archivist> hmm damned cheap, wonder about the quality fleabay 121214279295
[14:33:22] <skunkworks> pshha - no index
[14:34:10] <jdh> and SE
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[14:47:00] <archivist> SE ?
[14:51:24] <jdh> single ended.
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[15:17:12] <mozmck> Any here know much about bridgeport eztrak mills?
[15:17:57] <mozmck> I *might* be able to get one at auction, depends on how much it goes for.
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[15:23:08] <cradek> is that a "series 2" machine with a different control?
[15:25:00] <jdh> there are a bunch of them on eBay
[15:25:42] <mozmck> I think it is basically a series 2 with
[15:25:50] <mozmck> CNC controls
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[15:27:17] <cradek> quick ebay search says there are eztraks that are series 1 and series 2, 2 axis and 3 axis
[15:27:17] <mozmck> There are 2 of them and they came from a model shop. DC servo motors...
[15:27:22] <jthornton> a tilt and nod head?
[15:27:36] <mozmck> jthornton: yes
[15:28:03] <jthornton> I hate mine when it nods up from too much pressure and throws the tram out
[15:28:04] <mozmck> these would be the series 2, maybe just 2 axis but I don't know
[15:28:10] <cradek> ah mine was "rigid ram" (head doesn't tilt)
[15:28:12] <mozmck> ah
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[15:28:30] <cradek> I think the rigid rams are much better
[15:28:31] <mozmck> good to know.
[15:28:39] <cradek> I never recall a situation where I would have been tempted to tip the head
[15:28:41] <jthornton> the rigid heads are way better
[15:28:50] <mozmck> not being 3 full axis is not a nice either.
[15:29:16] <cradek> depends. if you do mostly drilling, the manual quill could be great
[15:29:16] <jthornton> that may just be a limitation of the control
[15:29:19] <mozmck> There is also a bridgeport ezpath lathe
[15:29:34] <cradek> jthornton: no I bet it doesn't have a screw on the quill at all
[15:29:43] <mozmck> jthornton: that could be, and wouldn't be a limitation long if I had it!
[15:29:47] <jthornton> ok
[15:30:24] <cradek> mozmck: the main problem with all of these is if they've had much use, the bottom of the table wears, and the table moves in an arc, and is loose at the center and tight at the ends of travel
[15:30:57] <jthornton> but you can make nice bows on it
[15:30:59] <cradek> mozmck: so be sure to take your indicators when you go look at it
[15:31:22] <mozmck> Hmm, I went yesterday and the auction ends today online.
[15:31:26] <cradek> you can't test easily for the arc, but you can easily compare table wiggle at the center and ends
[15:31:33] <mozmck> I should have played with them a little more.
[15:31:48] <archivist> a level placed on the table should see the arc
[15:31:57] <cradek> ah, true, duh
[15:32:46] <archivist> I dare not do that on my old horizontal :)
[15:33:02] <cradek> well if most of your work is a few inches across, who cares
[15:33:10] <mozmck> One is at $580 and the other at $926 now - ending in about 3 hours.
[15:33:15] <cradek> but if you want to flatten cylinder heads, care :-)
[15:33:22] <archivist> there was a huge amount of screw wear
[15:33:33] <mozmck> I have a 3 ft planer for heads :)
[15:33:54] <cradek> and for bridgeport dovetails?
[15:34:20] <mozmck> stroke might not be long enough.
[15:34:22] <archivist> a hand scraper an a surface table should all you need :)
[15:34:41] <mozmck> Yeah, and I have the Machine Tool Reconditioning book as well.
[15:34:59] <archivist> good book, I have it too
[15:35:10] <mozmck> Haven't used it though :)
[15:35:31] <archivist> smallest library reading fodder
[15:36:13] <mozmck> those EZ Traks on ebay are way too high it looks like.
[15:38:53] <cradek> seems like people will pay extra for the bridgeport name
[15:39:09] <cradek> you've "arrived" if your shop has a genuine bridgeport
[15:39:34] <archivist> like they pay over the top over here for Myford
[15:40:21] <jdh> a lot of the bridgeports look like they have been sitting out in a shed for years
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[16:06:06] <jthornton> Tom_itx, 1.5.5 is up http://gnipsel.com/files/g-code-generator/
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[17:08:20] <CaptHindsight> 261328357289 OKUMA LC20 anyone ever run one?
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[17:12:54] <terrym> Hi
[17:12:59] <twkrimm> Anyone out there part of the document group?
[17:13:24] <CaptHindsight> everyone contributes to the docs
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[17:13:45] <CaptHindsight> some more than others
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[17:14:37] <twkrimm> I would like to get the getting stated guide and user guide added to "www.lulu.com" just like the Ubuntu Getting Started Guide
[17:15:59] <twkrimm> LULU provides cheap hard printed documents, unfortunately I am not the "owner" of the document so www.lulu.com will not deal with me.
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[17:16:53] <cradek> it's my personal opinion that printing docs in book form mostly leads to people spending money to use outdated docs
[17:17:13] <cradek> although that being said, I do have the bat book on my desk
[17:17:28] <cradek> I'm not sure if there's an online equivalent
[17:17:36] <cradek> our docs are all available online, up-to-date
[17:18:23] <terrym> I just noticed a documentation discrepancy: User Manual v2.5 2013-07-23. G80, page 140 says it is in modal group 0, page 106 in table 13.4 says group 1.
[17:18:37] <terrym> group 1 is correct?
[17:19:14] <twkrimm> Electronic form is nice but old farts like me like a printed doc sometimes.
[17:19:33] <cradek> terrym: correct, it is 1
[17:20:05] <terrym> Thanks
[17:20:08] <CaptHindsight> maybe a nice scroll on fine parchment in a leather sheath, signed by the devs with a link to the docs :)
[17:20:08] <archivist> I just print the bit I want
[17:20:39] <twkrimm> When installing LinixCNC, the electronic doc was in the other room on the web connected computer
[17:20:58] <cradek> I notice at least the getting-started guide is licensed GFDL
[17:21:05] <archivist> most of us connect the machine to the web :)
[17:21:31] <CaptHindsight> unless I carry a tablet or laptop I'm still printing out pages and crawling into a machine
[17:21:33] <archivist> especially during the getting it going stage
[17:22:24] <twkrimm> I am just suggesting that we allow the docs to be printed, for the old farts like me.
[17:22:53] <twkrimm> different strokes for different folks
[17:23:20] <jdh> printing docs is responsible for 27.6% of global warming.
[17:23:36] <cradek> twkrimm: according to my reading of the GFDL it is already allowed
[17:23:59] <cradek> twkrimm: can you be more specific about who you're asking to do what?
[17:25:04] <twkrimm> The Ubuntu Document Team has the "Getting Started Guide" for various versions of Ubuntu availabel on www.lulu.com
[17:26:35] <twkrimm> I think the Ubuntu team gets a buck or two each time someone orders a book from LULU. For some reason Ubuntu books are available.
[17:27:25] <terrym> 99% of all statistics are made up on the spot, the other 1% are based on faulty data.
[17:27:45] <terrym> :)
[17:28:21] <twkrimm> I wanted to order a printed document versin of LinuxCNC getting started and User manual from LULU but I am not the owner of the document.
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[17:29:24] <twkrimm> I gave them a pointer to the pdf doc. I guess they do not understand the meaning of the GFDL
[17:29:27] <mozmck> twkrimm: maybe there is another place that will print it?
[17:31:27] <mozmck> Here's one I ran across the other day - haven't used them though: http://snowfallpress.com/page/home
[17:32:15] <twkrimm> thanks
[17:37:14] <twkrimm> <<jdh>> printing docs is responsible for 27.6% of global warming. Where did that statistic come from?
[17:37:36] <jdh> <terrym> 99% of all statistics are made up on the spot, the other 1% are based
[17:37:57] <mozmck> :) I wish we had some of that global warming here!
[17:38:06] <jdh> I think it is actually 83%, not 99%.
[17:38:17] <twkrimm> Ya it is cold outside
[17:38:18] <jdh> where is 'here'?
[17:38:21] <mozmck> texas
[17:38:29] <twkrimm> kentucky
[17:38:34] <jdh> live, from texas?
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[17:39:16] <mozmck> 3 inches of ice on the ground for almost a week. not common here in north texas
[17:39:29] <jdh> move south!
[17:39:35] <mozmck> north of dallas that is.
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[17:39:44] <mozmck> thinking about it!
[17:40:27] <twkrimm> They are further south then kentucky with worse weather
[17:40:27] <jdh> we have had a few sub-freezing days here.
[17:40:45] <jdh> .msg twkrimm and they have to live with texans
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[17:42:05] <mozmck> jdh: you in texas?
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[17:46:53] <jdh> nah, .nc.us
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[17:56:04] <jthornton> what part of nc?
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[17:56:44] <jdh> Wilmington. Southeast coast
[17:57:26] <jthornton> my sister lives in Concord and my mom near Greensboro
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[17:59:40] <jthornton> don't get over that way much any more
[18:01:36] <jdh> I have a dive buddy that lives in greensboro... takes him forever to get here
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[18:05:53] <tjtr33> alex_joni, your BBB cape just arrived , thank! hehe SN 0002 :) looks great!
[18:07:29] <jthornton> twkrimm, thanks for the report on the error in the manual, it has been fixed
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[18:09:16] <twkrimm> I think it was terrym and cradek that reported the error
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[18:09:45] <jthornton> ok, someone that started with t
[18:10:09] <jthornton> and he seems to be gone
[18:10:15] <twkrimm> yep
[18:10:29] <CaptHindsight> tjtr33: http://www.ebay.com/itm/japax-/190993704646?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2c781ca6c6 is this from the 70's?
[18:10:35] <twkrimm> I wanted to order a printed document versin of LinuxCNC getting started and User manual from LULU but I am not the owner of the document.
[18:11:06] <jthornton> can you get a local printer to print it?
[18:11:44] <twkrimm> The Ubuntu Document Team has the "Getting Started Guide" for various versions of Ubuntu availabel on www.lulu.com
[18:11:55] <twkrimm> There must be a reason
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[18:12:20] <IchGuckLive> hi all B)
[18:12:27] <jthornton> so I'm guessing you don't have a printer?
[18:12:32] <CaptHindsight> tjtr33: Japax + a Bridgeport label??
[18:12:35] <jdh> kinkos
[18:12:52] <jthornton> hi, a new version of mill G code generator is on my web site
[18:12:57] <IchGuckLive> printer is a miss lasercutter is fun
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[18:13:18] <twkrimm> I have a printer but I can not create a "nice" printed versin in a "soft cover book" format
[18:14:04] <cpresser> twkrimm: your local print-shop can do this. just send them the pdf-file
[18:14:06] <jthornton> do you have a local print shop?
[18:14:14] <CaptHindsight> Kinko's will bind them into a soft cover for you
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[18:14:26] <jthornton> even in this one horse town we have a couple of print shops
[18:14:38] <twkrimm> One that looks like I bought it in a book store?
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[18:15:14] <archivist> go to a local amateur/professional bookbinder
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[18:15:28] <CaptHindsight> twkrimm: you can even order online http://www.fedex.com/us/officeprint/storesvcs/options.html
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[18:16:03] <cpresser> twkrimm: it just depends on how much you pay. you can even get leather binding :)
[18:16:17] <archivist> you can even do it yourself
[18:16:57] <CaptHindsight> I'd go for a anodized aluminum 3-ring binder do I could print the updates and change pages
[18:17:05] <twkrimm> Ubuntu Getting Started Guide is less than $10 in Soft Cover format and it is about 168 pages from LULU. none of your time spent other than ordering.
[18:17:10] <mozmck> http://uazu.net/notes/binding.html
[18:17:30] <jdh> twkrimm: put your name on the document
[18:17:59] <twkrimm> "put your name on the document", interesting idea
[18:19:01] <cpresser> or just google for 'pdf book print'. there are other services around
[18:19:22] <archivist> you can go and buy one of the hot melt binders and covers at the local office store
[18:19:50] <tjtr33> CaptHindsight, yes, there were strange bedfellows over the years, at Finetech TW , my edms were built next to bridgeport cnc mills. was in on some meetings as 'token wei guo ren'
[18:20:13] <CaptHindsight> http://imagebin.org/281869
[18:21:00] <jdh> I coudl use that
[18:21:40] <archivist> my image for the day http://imagebin.org/281859
[18:22:02] <mozmck> twkrimm: another one http://www.print-my-pdf.com/
[18:22:33] <archivist> there should be a pimp-my-pdf too
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[18:23:03] <CaptHindsight> tjtr33: 281212045458 2 Qty. 1996 &1990 Agie Sprint 20
[18:23:04] <tjtr33> archivist, are the 2 meters due to gearing?
[18:23:37] <archivist> tjtr33, yes either could run into the red depending on what the user does
[18:25:37] <tjtr33> archivist, gotcha ( wire threshold trip into estop ? )
[18:26:21] <tjtr33> CaptHindsight, thx! i passed that onto Truty at TechStar up in Spring Grove, he refurbs them
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[18:26:56] <archivist> tjtr33, it sits on the side of a manual machine
[18:27:32] <CaptHindsight> tjtr33: I don't need one that often, but something that size should cover about anything I see
[18:28:22] <CaptHindsight> tjtr33: do they require lots of maintenance?
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[18:33:19] <tjtr33> CaptHindsight, no, and TechStar is next door for you. They have Techs & phone help.
[18:33:43] <tjtr33> archivist, ah, a manual machine, that makes visual indicators more valuable
[18:35:47] <archivist> if the input is too fast the encoder could lose counts, the output stepper loses torque, could stall
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[18:39:37] <tjtr33> archivist, i picked up a voice coil slide with renishaw 5um scale, the thing has really high vel & acc, and I worry about being able to read it fast enuf
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[18:40:10] <archivist> you need mesa card for that
[18:40:25] <tjtr33> vel like 2m/SECOND and accs like 2G. but it must bepossible, it made with those components SMAC corp
[18:40:49] <tjtr33> yeh i got some , will now have real use for 'em
[18:41:27] <archivist> you can turn hex and square then
[18:41:53] <archivist> as andy already has but faster
[18:42:55] <tjtr33> well the app is just a vertical jiggle, and i forgot that i got the controller to, so just ascii cmds over serial ( less fun )
[18:43:44] <tjtr33> dirt cheap, linear actuator 170$ and controller 95 all ebay, new was > 3000 ( may be junk too ;)
[18:44:09] <tjtr33> trying to do proof of concept on the cheap
[18:44:17] <archivist> travel distance?
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[18:45:11] <tjtr33> 2cm
[18:45:20] <tjtr33> its voice coil
[18:45:51] <archivist> voice coils can be used on much greater distances :)
[18:46:37] <IchGuckLive> tjtr33: this will boost your laser
[18:46:44] <tjtr33> http://www.ebay.com/itm/SMAC-LAA-5-11-48V-3A-6A-Peak-Actuator-/251143980877 http://www.ebay.com/itm/SMAC-Electric-Linear-Rotary-Actuator-LAR90-LAR95-LAL95-/181033488024?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2a266fce98
[18:46:51] <archivist> the old ibm mainframe disks used them to move the heads in
[18:47:23] <twkrimm> been on the IRC channel with Ubuntu docuemnt team member godbyk
[18:47:23] <tjtr33> yeah i'm talking to h2wtech in CA about a 4inch travel but its $$$$
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[18:48:16] <tjtr33> so i look for used stuff to look at how it works
[18:48:31] <archivist> best way
[18:48:37] <IchGuckLive> go for 0,2mm dots and you will fit it with steppers
[18:49:01] <archivist> just had fun taking a dividing head apart I got on fleabay
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[18:50:10] <tjtr33> IchGuckLive, its for this http://videobin.org/+73s/92r.html
[18:50:24] <tjtr33> not laser
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[18:51:27] <IchGuckLive> tjtr33: edm drill
[18:51:32] <tjtr33> but would be good for fast auto focus
[18:52:00] <tjtr33> no rib cutting you only see edge of tool
[18:52:46] <tjtr33> 50mm deep .75mm by 75mm cross section
[18:53:19] <FinboySlick> tjtr33: http://www.ebay.com/itm/15-Parker-Daedal-404LXR-Brushless-Linear-Servo-Motor-Actuator-THK-CNC-Router-/221205223941 <-- How about something like this?
[18:53:26] <tjtr33> skinny wide & deep
[18:54:32] <pcw_home> interesting: a PID loop does much better an managing the hardware stepgen than the fancy driver code
[18:54:42] <tjtr33> FinboySlick, thx i did look at those (1 left) but the mounting is clumsy for a tool on end
[18:54:42] <pcw_home> s/an/at/
[18:55:34] <FinboySlick> tjtr33: Be sure to post video of your results anyway. I'm very keen to see.
[18:57:08] <tjtr33> tiil then... http://videobin.org/+73s/92q.html
[18:57:40] <tjtr33> s/tiil/till thx pcw for the format
[18:57:53] <skunkworks_> pcw_home, why do you think>
[18:57:54] <skunkworks_> ?
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[19:05:06] <twkrimm> .msg jdh Are you there?
[19:06:17] <jdh> yes.
[19:06:57] <twkrimm> .msf jdh did I do the .msg comment correctly, I am new to IRC
[19:07:11] <twkrimm> .msg jdh did I do the .msg comment correctly, I am new to IRC
[19:07:16] <jdh> no, it is /msg
[19:07:30] <jdh> but, there is no need for /msg
[19:08:24] <jdh> the .msg was a joke, but it probably went over the texans heads.
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[19:12:13] <twkrimm> Kentucky is a target of lots of jokes, the land of pretty horses and fast women or did i get that backwards.
[19:13:01] <twkrimm> Ok, now for a serous question
[19:13:20] <jdh> does it involve your sister/wife?
[19:13:38] <twkrimm> ; )
[19:15:19] <twkrimm> Does anyone know of a printer driver that outputs GCode for a router. this would be similar to a 2 D laser engraver.
[19:16:50] <twkrimm> For instance an Epilog Laser uses printer driver to create the 2D commands (but not GCode) to control the motion and laser output of the laser engraver
[19:16:56] <jdh> sounds unlikely.
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[19:24:52] <WalterN> poking around for 3 jaw chucks some more :P
[19:25:20] <mozmck> pcw_home: what does a PID loop do in stepgen? I thought motion would basically tell how many steps to move.
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[19:26:58] <pcw_home> The stepgen has feedback, its basically a velocity mode servo
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[20:29:28] <ler_hydra> uh, can someone point me to some parport reference material? (IE listings of which pins can be configured as I, I/O, or O for various configurations of operation mode (normal, bi-directional, epp, ecp, et al)
[20:29:57] <ler_hydra> http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/2.4/html/hal_parallel_port.html suggests only two modes of operation, is this correct?
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[20:37:16] <JT-Shop> yep in or out
[20:37:31] <JT-Shop> except that is very old docs
[20:38:27] <JT-Shop> http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/hal/parallel_port.html
[20:38:29] <ler_hydra> JT-Shop, yeah, that's what I was thinking. FWIW it was one of the top results on google... But I'm limited to either of those two operation modes?
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[20:39:08] <JT-Shop> yes
[20:39:13] <ler_hydra> blegh
[20:39:21] <JT-Shop> need more pins?
[20:39:26] <ler_hydra> thanks for letting me know =)
[20:39:43] <ler_hydra> not really, I need something closer to an equal number of inputs and outputs
[20:40:16] <JT-Shop> got room for a pci parallel port?
[20:40:32] <ler_hydra> I'm definitely considering it ;)
[20:40:57] <ler_hydra> there's no upper limit to the number of PCI parports, right? (well, other than the number of PCI slots)?
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[20:41:07] <ler_hydra> so I could potentially use two?
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[20:41:31] <JT-Shop> yep
[20:41:32] <skunkworks_> yes
[20:41:59] <ler_hydra> ok, ghetto though it is that'll have to do. thanks!
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[20:43:40] <ler_hydra> oh, are there any known timing issues when using several parports? Can I expect bunch of logic level transitions to be seperated by no more than a base period?
[20:44:09] <ler_hydra> (eg. toggle all outputs on all ports)
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[20:55:20] <Tom_itx> JT-Shop nice scribble art :D
[20:56:29] <JT-Shop> LOL
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[21:01:13] <CaptHindsight> http://chicago.craigslist.org/nwi/tls/4222533105.html Hack multi versal mill $750
[21:01:23] <`Nerobro> CaptHindsight, your'e in chicago?
[21:01:34] <`Nerobro> are you a member of PS:1?
[21:01:56] <CaptHindsight> I went there a few times
[21:02:07] * `Nerobro nods
[21:02:10] <`Nerobro> What did you think?
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[21:02:21] <`Nerobro> We just picked up a bridgeport.
[21:02:34] <jdh> you have arrived.
[21:03:08] <`Nerobro> to go wihth the 8x24 claussing or whatever, and the 4x14 grizzley
[21:03:11] <`Nerobro> or something like that.
[21:03:49] <CaptHindsight> I found it too depressing to join. But that's just me.
[21:04:20] <tjb1> Anyone here CNC'd a G0704 or have a G0704?
[21:05:34] <jdh> me
[21:05:37] <jdh> and connor
[21:06:01] <jdh> and some whackjob guy in atlanta
[21:08:07] <tjb1> Good?
[21:08:10] <tjb1> I might pick one up
[21:08:19] <jdh> it is what it is.
[21:09:15] <tjb1> I see one guy on cnczone got one that the ways werent finished
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[21:10:16] <tjb1> You know anything about the seig ?
[21:10:25] <tjb1> SX3
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[21:19:57] <jdh> sx3 is a whole different price range
[21:20:17] <jdh> and a lot more weight I think.
[21:20:58] <jdh> I think I paid $950 for my g0704 new
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[21:24:36] <alex_joni> tjtr33: glad to hear it :)
[21:26:29] <alex_joni> tjtr33: although 0002 is not 100% accurate, there were about 10-12 boards without a serial number before 0001
[21:26:44] <alex_joni> various layouts too, up to v0.5
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[21:38:41] <tjb1> jdh: only $600 difference between the 2
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[21:42:01] <JT-Shop> Tom_itx, did you try out zig zag?
[21:51:21] <Tom_itx> not yet
[21:51:24] <Tom_itx> http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/cnc/JT-SHOP/Sample.jpg
[21:51:31] <Tom_itx> http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/cnc/JT-SHOP/Sample1.jpg
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[21:59:40] <Tom_itx> jthornton, the x y start is relative to x y reference?
[22:01:55] <Deejay> everything is relative according to einstein ;)
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[22:04:58] <Deejay> gn8
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[22:12:30] <JT-Shop> Tom_itx, http://imagebin.org/281897
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[22:47:14] <Tom_itx> fancy!
[23:02:13] <JT-Shop> I don't like the font size but I think that gets the message across
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[23:07:38] <jdh> it's lovely.
[23:07:52] <jdh> you didn't have one for the 15/50?
[23:07:55] <jdh> <urk>
[23:15:59] <JT-Shop> 15/50?
[23:24:01] <PCW> 7I76E running 24 hours with Preempt_RT at 1 KHz all seems OK :-)
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[23:25:48] <JT-Shop> cool
[23:27:01] <PCW> still a bit fussy about Ethernet latency in different MBs but I suspect it will get better
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[23:40:09] <JT-Shop> well that took 30 seconds to get the G code for tapping several holes... lets see if it is correct
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[23:50:43] <JT-Shop> that went well
[23:56:56] <Tom_itx> PCW you know what would be super cool with your pdf files? On the pages that list the connector pinout put field entry beside each one. I'm making an overlay in word to print beside each entry as to where my wiring goes
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