#linuxcnc | Logs for 2013-11-24

[00:02:54] <andypugh> NickParker: What you need to read is about raw mode here: http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/html/man/man9/hostmot2.9.html#Raw%20Mode with reference to this file here: http://git.linuxcnc.org/gitweb?p=hostmot2-firmware.git;a=blob;f=regmap;h=b3a2a77c27de0c71278dc910992efeddd7deb577;hb=HEAD
[00:03:42] <NickParker> thanks anypugh. i was just reading this http://linuxcnc.org/docs/2.5/html/drivers/hostmot2.html#_example_configurations and about to ask where to find out what a volunteer should do next.
[00:04:01] <andypugh> But the "right" fix would be to fiddle with this file here: http://git.linuxcnc.org/gitweb?p=linuxcnc.git;a=blob;f=src/hal/drivers/mesa-hostmot2/stepgen.c;h=0538d8a833be8d9f16a10d401f2934a5f01d5f6f;hb=2119397da5cd98be10452513251a00331d7d5743
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[00:13:14] <NickParker> andypugh: I'm not sure what you mean by the "right" fix, but looking at the 1st file you linked, line 258 sounds like what i want. Make the stepgens cycle through a table of output combinations?
[00:14:39] <andypugh> By "right" I mean a fix that anyone else can use, ie add a way to tell the driver what sort of stepgen output you want.
[00:15:47] <NickParker> ah that may be a bit past me, since i only half know the language...
[00:16:20] <NickParker> and this file appears to have one comment which is "//FIXME" lol
[00:23:21] <andypugh> There are at least two "fixmes" and (in fairness) quite a lot of other comments.
[00:24:06] <RyanS> Is there a formula to calculate axial load in various milling operations? I've never come across one
[00:24:34] <NickParker> andypugh: ah you're right, ctrl+f "//" 78 results.
[00:25:41] <NickParker> I'll look at it a bit to see if the program structure springs out at me, but I'll probably want to move on to figuring out table driven stepgen from the other file.
[00:25:42] <andypugh> RyanS: I suspect it depends largely on imponderables.
[00:26:28] <andypugh> NickParker: The main function of stepgen.c is to convert values on HAL pins into values in registers.
[00:27:24] <RyanS> hmm but machine designers need to calculate axial load on the spindle bearings, surely?
[00:31:27] <RyanS> diameter of the cutter, feed rate, depth of cut I imagine would be major contributors
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[00:32:03] <archivist> the cutter can pull into a cut, not that simple
[00:36:28] <archivist> negative/positive rake, climb v conventional, blunt v sharp cutter and the material , wood v a work hardening metal
[00:38:14] <andypugh> lubrication
[00:39:29] <andypugh> The answer might be "it needs to be as strong as the Z axis"
[00:39:46] <RyanS> Right, so one would have to estimate the maximum loads likely to be encountered and desig the spindle accordingly. Choose appropriate bearings etc
[00:41:07] <archivist> it is why industrial machine are built like tanks, to resist and flexing and load likely in service
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[00:46:22] <RyanS> The reason I'm wondering is, I understand some of the reasons why you shouldn't mill with a drill press is; chuck cant take axial load, no drawbar, bearings not designed for axial, spindle taper too small (?) I've seen some milling of plastic and aluminium with a lighter cuts done.... The results were not and terrible and these were not large drill presses
[00:48:16] <andypugh> No, drills _can_ take axial load, that's their job. Radial load is the problem.
[00:49:57] <RyanS> oo but don't large drill bits have a lot of radial load? Or is that Z axis load (sorry I don't know the proper term)]
[00:51:09] <archivist> axial is along Z
[00:51:41] <RyanS> You mean perpendicular to Z?
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[00:52:32] <archivist> axial means through the cylinders axis (along Z)
[00:55:04] <RyanS> yeah you would encounter that when traversing the cutter on x right?
[00:56:34] <RyanS> oh i see, I'm confusing radial with axial
[00:58:14] <RyanS> axial is exactly what a drill press is designed, upwards pressure on the bearing
[01:03:49] <andypugh> This web page quites cutting force and much more. http://zero-divide.net/index.php?page=fswizard
[01:04:38] <andypugh> I have used it a few times, and it seems functional.
[01:05:11] <RyanS> cool thanks
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[01:08:44] <RyanS> Haven't taken delivery but I'm converting a 1.5kw three-phase drill press, mt4, seems quite rigid . I wonder if it would be safe (and not damage the bearings) with a Collet chuck, compound table to take conservative cuts in plastic, aluminium, brass?
[01:09:23] <RyanS> mt4 is ridiculous, but that's what it came with
[01:10:47] <archivist> just not designed for side cutting so you are likely to get some poor finish and broken tools, no climb milling should ever be done on it
[01:15:06] <RyanS> But conventional will be somewhat okay. I was just going to do some quick and dirty slots in plastic and aluminium, not too fussed about the finish
[01:15:42] <archivist> remember a slot has climb as well as conventional
[01:16:41] <RyanS> Because it's engaging both sides of the cutter?
[01:16:52] <archivist> yes
[01:17:03] <RyanS> So you better off sticking to pockets and edges
[01:18:02] <archivist> I would have said get a mill/drill machine if you had mentioned your milling use
[01:20:15] <archivist> fleabay 321256205158 I used to have a version 20 years ago, glad I got rid
[01:21:04] <RyanS> It's only something for a bit of practice, i needed something with more Z clearance that the benchtop drill press.. I intend to get a milling machine just not yet
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[01:22:10] <archivist> while they can mill they are just not convenient to use as mills and mine was not square either
[01:22:22] <andypugh> Whereas they are not great machine tools, i do feel that every home should have one.
[01:22:49] <archivist> have/had, so you know what not to get :)
[01:23:12] <andypugh> I like the way that you can't open the belt guard without moving to the top of travel.
[01:23:14] <archivist> was a reasonable drill actually
[01:23:58] <RyanS> yeah, plus the existing bench drill had ran out, getting a bit noisy, etc
[01:23:58] <archivist> you lose any position changing height (round column)
[01:25:24] <RyanS> yeah so far . Most things I've worked on have just been turning and drilling shit
[01:26:34] <andypugh> I don't think you need machine tools for that.
[01:26:38] <archivist> oh and the effort clamping the column will screw your settings
[01:27:26] <RyanS> You need a lathe for turning shite
[01:29:22] <RyanS> Those RF 30 round column mills don't seem practical either
[01:30:38] <andypugh> Some have a keyway, so basically do work
[01:31:34] <andypugh> And there have been really good round-column things: http://www.lathes.co.uk/oerlikon/
[01:31:42] <andypugh> (Bigger than it looks)
[01:31:59] <RyanS> What's the deal with a drawbar on gear head drilling machines, is that to facilitate the use of a boring head?
[01:32:50] <archivist> vibration and digging in causes the taper to loosen, best to have a drawbar
[01:32:53] <andypugh> Or any other non-axial tool
[01:34:15] <RyanS> And I guess you are going to get vibration using the size of drill bits they do on those machines
[01:34:16] <archivist> and on large work the load is just too high for the taper and it can slip if not pulled in tight enough
[01:34:28] <RyanS> Makes sense
[01:35:22] <archivist> an then if it does slip ot may sieze and groove the sleeve or drill, a pain to repair
[01:36:50] <RyanS> I saw of those gearhead machines the other day... massive. Photos don't do justice
[01:41:54] <andypugh> On eBay: "Engineers Cube 18 x 10 x 12" Not a pedant's cube, that's for sure. 
[01:42:31] <archivist> I used a cube to raise the mills column :)
[01:43:03] <Tom_itx> is that like a toumbstone?
[01:43:55] <andypugh> We have so many cubes at work that they use them for holding down pergolas during events, then leave them out in the weather. It bothers me.
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[01:44:36] <archivist> http://www.archivist.info/cnc/stage8/IMG_0268.JPG
[01:45:25] <archivist> well worn one but at 25 quid was cheapish
[01:46:19] <Jymmm> archivist: is that a touch screen?
[01:46:30] <archivist> yes it was
[01:46:36] <Jymmm> size?
[01:47:01] <Jymmm> 15" 17" 21" ???
[01:47:11] <archivist> its dead, about 17
[01:47:36] <archivist> the PC was in it too
[01:47:50] <RyanS> engineers cube is that 123 block?
[01:48:00] <Jymmm> archivist: When it worked, was it easy enough to use , or seamed a tad small at times?
[01:48:30] <Jymmm> ...as a touch screen that is.
[01:48:31] <archivist> I never got the touch part working in linux
[01:48:36] <Jymmm> ah, ok
[01:49:08] <andypugh> I have a 17" and it seems a bit big. But I wouldn't want any fewer pixels. I would say that 15" and 1200x1024 was probably ideal if they exist.
[01:49:46] <Jymmm> andypugh: 15" touch at that resolution seems tiny to me.
[01:50:09] <Jymmm> andypugh: liek you would be fighting which control you are trying to touch
[01:50:28] <andypugh> You just have more pixels per control?
[01:50:37] <Jymmm> but smaller controls
[01:50:46] <andypugh> Why smaller?
[01:51:00] <Jymmm> higher res
[01:51:12] <Jymmm> controls get smaller on screen the hgher res you go
[01:51:20] <Jymmm> you are trying to fit more in the same space.
[01:51:21] <andypugh> Touchy rakes up the whole screen, regardless of resolution. The buttons just get more pixels each
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[01:52:00] <Jymmm> a button still cant be smaller than a figer
[01:52:04] <Jymmm> finger
[01:52:26] <RyanS> Nice Frankenmill
[01:52:48] <andypugh> https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/GwJasYJB1sDpauT92DfiINMTjNZETYmyPJy0liipFm0?feat=directlink is mine, the screen is a bit big.
[01:53:21] <andypugh> The buttons are playing-card sized: https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/WAFKZNDs8P9oZeiXKTKNANMTjNZETYmyPJy0liipFm0?feat=directlink
[01:54:05] <archivist> just need to edit the gcode....
[01:54:42] <roycroft> how many buttons do you need on a screen anyway?
[01:54:48] <roycroft> my finger is about 1.5cm wide
[01:55:38] <andypugh> roycroft: It's just Jymmmm. His superpower is being wrong.
[01:56:30] <andypugh> And given that I appear to have become combatative, it's probably time to log off and sleep.
[01:56:36] <andypugh> Night all
[01:56:42] <roycroft> i have a 15" screen here which is 33x21cm = 22x14fingertips = 308 fingertips per screen
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[01:57:06] <RyanS> Which finger
[01:57:07] <roycroft> i think you can operate a cnc mill with 308 buttons or less :)
[01:57:13] <roycroft> my button finger
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[01:57:53] <Jymmm> roycroft: But can you label all 308 so you can read them too
[01:58:20] <roycroft> perhaps not very legibly
[01:58:34] <roycroft> but i also doubt i need 10% of that number to operate a mill
[01:58:46] <roycroft> and i could definitely label 31 buttons legibly on a 15" screen
[01:58:53] <Jymmm> and how much tolerance is there on where you have to touch one versus it's neghbors?
[01:59:21] <Jymmm> how much seperation is there in between buttons?
[01:59:45] <roycroft> if the buttons only require 10% of the total screen real estate, there can be plenty of separation
[01:59:50] <RyanS> Is that likeone button to cover each g-code command? :p
[02:00:22] <Jymmm> where does 10% of the screen come into play for 308 buttons?
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[02:00:37] <roycroft> <roycroft> but i also doubt i need 10% of that number to operate a mill
[02:00:55] <Jymmm> ok, tthat's still 30 buttons on a 15" scren
[02:01:12] <roycroft> i don't remember how many buttons there are on a touchy screen, but touchy works fine on a 15" screen
[02:01:25] <RyanS> I thought you have to do everything in command line to be a 'real' linux used
[02:01:35] <RyanS> user*
[02:01:40] <Jymmm> That's BSD
[02:02:01] <roycroft> to be a "real" bsd user you just have to understand what you're doing
[02:02:03] <Jymmm> then you need a beard and suspenders too
[02:02:09] <roycroft> click and pray doesn't work
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[02:03:12] <RyanS> I used here for the machinery talk, I think I have used linux once
[02:03:23] <roycroft> and i don't intend those statements as comparisons to anything else
[02:03:24] <roycroft> they stand alone
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[02:04:59] <RyanS> I am just here*
[02:08:10] <RyanS> automation direct VFDs any good?
[02:12:52] <NickParker> so I've got a spindle controller that takes 0-10V input. What's the easiest way to work with that? I've got a 6i25 if it helps
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[02:19:00] <cradek> EASIEST way is to get a mesa card with dac output, and wire it up
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[02:22:52] <NickParker> +cradek: I assume you mean an external card not the 6i25? I'd kind of like to get this going since I have the next 8 days off. I've got a DAC in the mill, but it's a pretty stupid one in that it takes hex input.
[02:23:37] <NickParker> er, not exactly hex. it takes 2 4 bit binary numbers, one representing the 10s digit and the other the ones digit to represent numbers 0-99. stupid i know but that's what's in the original electronics..
[02:25:12] <cradek> hmm, from the mesa site: The 7I76 is a step/dir oriented breakout with 5 axis of buffered step/dir outputs, one spindle encoder input, one isolated 0-10V analog spindle speed plus isolated direction and enable outputs, one RS-422 expansion port, 32 isolated 5-32V inputs and 16 isolated 5-32V 300 mA outputs.
[02:25:49] <cradek> is that useful for you? depends what the rest of your machine is I guess.
[02:26:45] <NickParker> the 010V analog is the only part of that i would really need. my drivers don't take step/dir input.
[02:27:02] <cradek> what interface are your axis drives?
[02:27:34] <NickParker> phase inputs for 4 phase motors. so 4 pins per motor and to do half step drive i have to cycle through 1000 1100 0100 0110 0010 etc
[02:27:53] <cradek> ah
[02:28:08] <cradek> does the mesa stepgen do that?
[02:28:22] <NickParker> pending more money I'll probably switch over to just using bipolar drives, because andypugh tells me i'll double my torque with no downsides...
[02:28:35] <NickParker> nope. I'm currently reading the code to find out how to make it do it.
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[02:29:02] <cradek> yeah bipolar is sure better - but won't work if you have 5 wire motors
[02:29:22] <cradek> but 6 or 8 is fine
[02:29:37] <NickParker> i've got 6 i'm almost certain
[02:29:46] <cradek> the software stepgen does all those kinds of patterns, but is of course slower
[02:29:47] <NickParker> oh wait definitely certain what am i saying
[02:30:04] <NickParker> yep. if I don't figure out mesa firmware tonight i'm just doing software stepgen until i can afford bipolars
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[03:57:45] <MacGalempsy> evening
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[06:29:28] <a1cypher> Hey folks. Just compiled the latest linuxcnc from git. All the tests run fine, but Im having a small problem loading my configuration. It gives me the error "_tkinter.TclError: can't find package Img"
[06:29:31] <a1cypher> any ideas?
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[08:15:13] <_DJ_> moin
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[12:48:39] <lautriv> kengu, are you around ?
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[13:18:44] <ries> hey guys, should programming G64 p0.1 work if you have a rotary axis? yesterday I was using that butit almost felt like I couldn't make it to work
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[13:23:00] <jthornton> it doesn't seem logical that G64 Pn would work with a rotary as the control has no idea where the tool is in relation to the rotary
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[13:24:38] <jthornton> are you doing coordinated moves with a rotary?
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[13:29:09] <ries> jthornton: Yes I do... I understand what you are saying. yesterday I tried to do something that took far longer then expected
[13:30:06] <ries> I just don't want my machine get to a full stop, I guess this is then up to the cam software?
[13:30:28] <jthornton> If I understand correctly you should be using G93 with a rotary
[13:32:31] <ries> jthornton: let me correct myself, I think it's called a 'indexer'
[13:32:54] <ries> I have moves like this : G1 Z14.9954 A1.4229 F1000.0 G1 Z14.9997 A2.8458 F1000.0 etc...
[13:33:07] <archivist> that is a rotary
[13:33:12] <jthornton> yea
[13:33:27] <ries> Ooo, ok :) sorry about that...
[13:33:41] <jthornton> anytime you have moves with both linear and rotary you should use G93
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[13:34:21] <jthornton> and if your cam is putting a F word on each line you may be using G93
[13:34:44] <ries> The produced GCode doesn't contain G93
[13:35:43] <archivist> tell the cam to use inverse time mode when the rotary is in use
[13:38:36] <ries> archivist: I think I have to ask the forum about this, currently I don't see such option
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[13:50:32] <ries> So, when programming G93, you can use G64 ?
[13:52:40] <jthornton> I don't know
[13:54:14] <archivist> linuxcnc does not know the radius with a rotary so it makes little sense to me
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[13:55:27] <ries> archivist: it outputs Z... so may be I can post process it...
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[14:34:33] <lautriv> appears the sitelink for g code docs is down ?
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[14:37:34] <pcw_home> http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/html/gcode/overview.html
[14:37:36] <pcw_home> works for me
[14:38:03] <archivist> http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/html/gcode/gcode.html worksfome
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[14:41:11] <lautriv> works here too but my ling was http://gnipsel.com/linuxcnc/tutorial/index.html
[14:42:13] <archivist> http://gnipsel.com/linuxcnc/g-code/index.html
[14:42:41] <pcw_home> Thats JTs site, maybe he's changing something
[14:42:54] * archivist slaps JT_Shop with add links to redirect :)
[14:46:40] <lautriv> ok, right now i have a rather simple problem, my car has a stepper to control the intake-air for idling. actually i have to test/refit this thingie and punched linuxcnc to the motor on X-axis. may someone show me a simple script to perpetually move between 2 positions ?
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[14:51:14] <lautriv> s/script/gcode.
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[15:02:29] <lautriv> anyone ?
[15:02:41] <pcw_home> http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/2.4/html/gcode_main.html#r3_2
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[15:07:01] <archivist> lautriv, the stepconf utility does it too
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[15:09:13] <CaptHindsight> lautriv: what are you using to drive the IACV motor?
[15:10:51] <lautriv> CaptHindsight, driver is a homebrew parport/L297 combo, manual move works but i'm the one for electronics and not coding G, also used to EMC years ago ;)
[15:14:09] <CaptHindsight> lautriv: just wondering since I was just working on an Nissan IACV
[15:15:03] <lautriv> CaptHindsight, maybe that part is very similar, 4 pins ?
[15:16:03] <CaptHindsight> lautriv: yes, but then I found a new complete unit for $45
[15:16:55] <lautriv> CaptHindsight, i have no problem to buy another except the time it needs to get it and actually it is not even sure that is the problem, reson why i test it.
[15:18:34] <kengu> lautriv: yes
[15:20:07] <lautriv> kengu, was crap on canonical, works fine on debian, except it won't let me configure to install ( run in place only )
[15:20:29] <CaptHindsight> for me shipping time takes about the same time as dissembling everything to reach it :) I think the engineers wanted to punish anyone that tries to fix these
[15:21:14] <lautriv> CaptHindsight, they will sell and support the garage ;)
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[15:32:22] <lautriv> yay, works like a charm ;)
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[16:02:17] <PetefromTn> Mornin' folks...
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[16:16:46] <kengu> afternoon
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[16:35:03] <Quintox> hello, what do you use for creating G-Codes?
[16:35:34] <kengu> cambam, inkscape+gcodetools, skeinforge
[16:36:06] <Quintox> is one for free?
[16:36:32] <kengu> last two more
[16:36:35] <Tom_itx> depends how complex you're looking for
[16:36:45] <Tom_itx> full 3d not so much
[16:36:55] <Tom_itx> 2.5d you can find for free
[16:37:12] <Tom_itx> however you generally get what you pay for
[16:37:13] <kengu> cambam is cheapish and pretty nice
[16:37:25] <kengu> pycam is free?
[16:37:42] <Quintox> 2.5D
[16:37:56] <Quintox> ok i will try thank you
[16:38:30] <Tom_itx> sheetcam wasn't mentioned
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[16:38:37] <Tom_itx> not sure how free it is
[16:38:45] <Tom_itx> g'day andypugh
[16:38:49] <andypugh> Hai
[16:38:51] <archivist> Quintox, inside rear of skull is free
[16:39:15] <Tom_itx> archivist, too high a learning curve for most
[16:39:47] <archivist> cam often does not use the full power of the gcode though
[16:39:49] <Quintox> i will try skeinforge first do i use linux for it or win?
[16:40:13] <andypugh> It doesn't matter, G-code is G-cde
[16:40:14] <Tom_itx> yeah i'll agree with that
[16:40:43] <andypugh> (You might want to be a bit careful about the line-end encoding if using Windows)
[16:41:22] <andypugh> I still think that using G-code to drive extruders is crazy.
[16:41:55] <andypugh> But it is hard to imagine any alternative gaining traction
[16:42:20] <andypugh> (sending polygons and fill patterns would be more sensible)
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[17:19:42] <Jymmm> That's a neat idea for an adjustable firewood crib... http://www.northerntool.com/images/product/700x700/158/158501_700x700.jpg
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[18:04:52] <IchGuckLive> hi all B)
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[19:21:28] <NickParker> reprap
[19:21:40] <NickParker> ignore that. failed a /join
[19:22:01] <archivist> #gluegun
[19:22:30] <NickParker> yep just about.
[19:22:35] <NickParker> fun glue gun at least.
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[19:29:45] <Tom_itx> about 85% of em must make more glue guns
[19:29:50] <Tom_itx> not much productivity
[19:31:50] <jdh> machine procreation?
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[19:39:55] <NickParker> http://linuxcnc.org/index.php/english/documentation
[19:40:01] <NickParker> are the links there down for anybody else?
[19:40:09] <NickParker> specifically the pdf documentation?
[19:41:48] <Tom_itx> yep
[19:42:15] <Tom_itx> which one are you looking for?
[19:42:49] <NickParker> getting started and perhaps integrators manual
[19:43:12] <Tom_itx> http://linuxcnc.org/docs/2.5/
[19:43:39] <Tom_itx> that should work
[19:43:58] <NickParker> ah yep thanks Tom_itx
[19:44:26] <Tom_itx> jthornton, somebody should update those links
[19:44:37] <Tom_itx> dunno who does the web stuff
[19:44:39] <JT_Shop> where are they from?
[19:44:47] <Tom_itx> main page
[19:44:53] <Tom_itx> pdf doc downloads
[19:44:59] <JT_Shop> wiki or linux.org?
[19:45:10] <Tom_itx> http://linuxcnc.org/index.php/english/documentation
[19:45:27] <Tom_itx> the (En)(Fr)
[19:45:28] <Tom_itx> links
[19:45:39] <JT_Shop> ok, thanks
[19:46:57] <JT_Shop> I wonder if buildbot broke them
[19:47:12] <Tom_itx> dunno
[19:47:21] <Tom_itx> just a tad bit of searching found them though
[19:47:51] <Tom_itx> i think somebody was working on docs yesterday
[19:48:58] <JT_Shop> ok I see a 2.5 is in the link now
[19:49:29] <kengu> NickParker: the pdf was missing some days ago when I tried to find it
[19:51:45] <Tom_itx> just moved a bit
[19:51:48] <Tom_itx> still there
[19:52:42] <kengu> yes. but missing from the other end of the link on the general documentation url stated
[19:53:03] <Tom_itx> jt is working on that presently
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[19:56:09] <JT_Shop> the links should all work now if you refresh the page
[19:59:47] <Tom_itx> appear to yes
[20:00:31] <archivist> wtf how did that happen! fleabay 221319084790 :)
[20:00:50] <Tom_itx> jthornton, developers manual still broke
[20:01:20] <Tom_itx> Developer's Manual - internal architecture, NML reference, homing procedures;
[20:02:09] <Tom_itx> (a primer for Custom GUI), Custom GUI also broke
[20:02:16] <Tom_itx> points to gnipsel dot com
[20:02:29] <Tom_itx> http://gnipsel.com/linuxcnc/gui-tutorial/index.html
[20:02:35] <Tom_itx> may wanna update that as well
[20:03:17] <Tom_itx> Tutorials for Linuxcnc, G code, Glade3/Python (a primer for Custom GUI), Custom GUI
[20:03:23] <Tom_itx> glade works but the other two don't
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[20:09:01] <NickParker> How do i set up software stepgen with unusual stepper types? I can't find anything about non step/dir control in the getting started guide nor the integrators manual
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[20:27:53] <cradek> see the stepgen manpage
[20:28:17] <cradek> manpages are at the bottom of the mail docs index page (as well as being installed the usual way on your system)
[20:29:54] <NickParker> found it, thanks +cradek
[20:30:23] <cradek> er, I meant "main docs" of course
[20:30:37] <NickParker> yep found it.
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[20:53:32] <mrsun_> ough cutting plywood wasnt fun at all ... first of all its not freakin flat! ever! :/
[20:53:38] <mrsun_> and the fibers ... oh the stupid fibers :P
[20:53:54] <kengu> sounds familiar
[20:53:56] <kengu> sort of
[20:54:29] <mrsun_> any tips on how to cut it efficiently ? :)
[20:54:30] <archivist> plenty blood released?
[20:55:14] <Tom_itx> it's the splinters under the fingernails i hate
[20:55:59] <JT_Shop> Tom_itx, thanks
[20:56:05] <JT_Shop> I think they are fixed now
[20:56:13] <Tom_itx> JT_Shop i didn't notice any more
[20:58:02] <JT_Shop> thanks for checking them
[20:58:19] <mrsun_> what cutter type is best for plywood ? anyone know ?
[20:58:25] <mrsun_> straight flute? ordenary ?
[20:58:29] <mrsun_> number of flutes etc =)
[20:58:53] <Tom_itx> most router bits i've seen are 2 flute
[20:58:54] <JT_Shop> onsrud
[20:59:10] <Tom_itx> with a different cutter angle than metal
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[21:00:20] <archivist> and the cutter is fast enough to shatter the wood into small particles rather than cut
[21:01:03] <mrsun_> archivist, huh ? :)
[21:01:38] <archivist> one of the reasons wood routers are high rpm
[21:02:06] <mrsun_> well got a router as spindle so i guess it should be fast enough =)
[21:04:51] <Loetmichel> mrsun_: but LOUD ;)
[21:06:55] <mrsun_> the spindle .. yes :P
[21:06:57] <mrsun_> loud as hell
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[21:17:45] <ries> mrsun_: have you ever tried a compression bit?
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[21:42:51] <mrsun_> ries, im totaly new to this stuff so =)
[21:42:54] <mrsun_> wood routing
[21:43:29] <mrsun_> but seem em and looks interesting, problem is like usual im a swede tho .. and stuff is next to impossible to find in this country :P
[21:44:22] <andypugh> I though they were made in Sweden?
[21:44:43] <mrsun_> well tihs country is a bit strange if ind it... internet is not yet accepted to sell from it seems :P
[21:44:56] <mrsun_> as most companies requires you to make direct contact with them :P
[21:45:06] <kengu> it is made of wood...
[21:45:21] <kengu> but yeah. ebay is a good friend on these
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[21:45:41] <mrsun_> onsrud bits were quite expensive =)
[21:56:22] <Jymmm> mrsun_: onsrud for?
[21:56:30] <Jymmm> ...what material?
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[21:57:36] <Jymmm> mrsun_: you using spiral up/down cut bits?
[21:59:43] <mrsun_> Jymmm, onsrud router bits
[21:59:50] <mrsun_> solid carbide
[21:59:57] <mrsun_> i do not use them now :P
[22:00:08] <Jymmm> mrsun_what material are you CUTTING?
[22:00:24] <Jymmm> insrud makes LOTS of bits
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[22:00:36] <mrsun_> atm ive tried with carbide straight flute bits .. bad results in plywood and up spiral i guess hss 3 flute end mill .. not good results there either
[22:00:41] <mrsun_> Jymmm, plywood atm
[22:00:56] <mrsun_> mdf a straight flute works fine for ive found, the plywood is a pita tho :/
[22:01:38] <Jymmm> http://www.amazon.com/CMT-192-000-02-Carbide-Downcut-Spiral/dp/B000P4LO4C
[22:02:10] <Jymmm> downcut will save the surface, but pack the cuts.
[22:02:31] <mrsun_> well both sides are equaly important ...
[22:02:33] <Jymmm> upcut will help save the bottom, and NOT pack the cuts.
[22:02:40] <mrsun_> so i guess compresion bits is the thing to go :/
[22:03:02] <Jymmm> and DONT use FREUD bits = crap
[22:03:32] <Jymmm> Here ya go... http://www.amazon.com/CMT-191-008-11-Carbide-Spiral-Diameter/dp/B000P4HOEQ/ref=pd_cp_hi_0
[22:03:55] <ries> mrsun_: I don't use them myself, bit I hear from some other folks that they keep the plywood down. I use myself just straight cutters for plywood. I don't have good experience with spiral's and plywood
[22:04:00] <Jymmm> It's plywood, you ARE going to get spintering no matter what
[22:04:41] <mrsun_> ries, downcut bits keeps it down or what?
[22:05:01] <ries> mrsun_: I hear... never tried it myself...
[22:05:31] <mrsun_> vacuum table would be neato but cant afford the pumps nessecery =)
[22:05:32] <ries> Most what I use is a 6mm ball, 3 flute spiral and my almighty 8mm straight.
[22:05:54] <mrsun_> or .. a shop vac might be enough but my experiments says its not :P
[22:05:57] <ries> mrsun_: O simetimes put something of a weight at places where I don't have to cut..
[22:06:12] <ries> by carefull with a shopvac, the need th air to cool
[22:06:28] <mrsun_> ries, seperate cooling shopvac
[22:06:37] <mrsun_> that does not use the air they suck to cool themselfs
[22:06:57] <ries> that might work then... I never tired vacuum on my table..
[22:08:25] <mrsun_> but will have to do with the straight flutes i have for now tho cutting some stuff as i need to make money to be able to buy more and better bits =)
[22:09:20] <ries> mrsun_: I bought some bit's from china, they where not that bad... I still use them and they don't seem to dull fast. Best thing is, they are cheap... and if you are like my, you will break a bit or two in the beginning
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[22:12:12] <mrsun_> breaking stuff? .. nah thats not me ;)
[22:13:43] <kengu> uu.. never
[22:14:00] <kengu> but for some reason I am out of 6mm bits
[22:19:25] <ries> I never broke anything in over a year
[22:19:49] <ries> But in the first few weeks after I finnished the router... BAM... damned... bit broke aaaghhh
[22:21:52] <Jymmm> I like CMT bits for wood, Onsrud for plastics.
[22:23:12] <kengu> i like cheap ones to break away
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[22:25:09] <_DJ_> gn8
[22:25:22] <Jymmm> _DJ_: D(
[22:25:25] <Jymmm> 9
[22:25:30] <mrsun_> one problem i have is that im bad at documenting ... so i dont know what is good or not if i nee dto buy new bits if i lose a bit or something :P
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[22:25:37] <_DJ_> good night, Jymmm
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[22:26:21] <ries> mrsun_: that will come... make sure you always have them around, nothing worse then missing you vaforite bit!
[22:27:43] <Jymmm> mrsun_: CMT produced consistant quality in the finished material. FREUD gave poor quality in finished material, dulled quickly, and broke easily. I'll buy china specialty one-off bits, but that's abut it.
[22:28:01] <Jymmm> mrsun_: Cost more in replacing ruined raw materials than quality bits.
[22:30:16] <mrsun_> yeah i want quality bits but hard to know what brands, and most brands you get recommended in here is US brands etc =) found a brand named "Cobolt" in sweden might test that out =)
[22:30:33] <mrsun_> and aparently the ones owning that brand also sells stuff from onsrud
[22:30:33] <Jymmm> mrsun_: where you at?
[22:30:37] <mrsun_> sweden
[22:31:03] <mrsun_> cobalt
[22:31:10] <mrsun_> no
[22:31:15] <mrsun_> cobolt. .. wtf
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[22:31:41] <mrsun_> now im confused in the pdf its named cobalt but i find router bits under the name cobalt ...
[22:32:47] <ries> mrsun_: find a local company that sell's woodrouters, they will beable to advice you. Ensure you go to the companies that sell to other companies.
[22:33:58] <mrsun_> ough
[22:34:03] <mrsun_> 920sek for one freakin router bit
[22:34:18] <mrsun_> thats about 140 usd
[22:34:22] <Jymmm> mrsun_: http://www.woodcontrol.se/
[22:35:01] <Jymmm> http://www.toolbox.se/Toolbox/sv/default.aspx
[22:35:37] <Jymmm> mrsun_: I cant read those, but bother are CMT dealers in Seden
[22:35:41] <Jymmm> both*
[22:35:56] <Jymmm> http://www.cmtutensili.com/viewdoc.asp?pars2=2~2~3~2~2
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[22:37:29] <mrsun_> thanks, gonna look at em =)
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