#linuxcnc | Logs for 2013-11-14

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[00:05:14] <andypugh> I was previously unaware of that stuff, and now I need some.
[00:07:01] <CaptHindsight> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ozQdGY2WnI Precious Metal Clay
[00:07:27] <andypugh> I just finished reading the Wikipedia page
[00:08:58] <CaptHindsight> diy with metal powder + PVA
[00:10:12] <CaptHindsight> the patent for that product uses a water-soluble cellulose binder
[00:10:20] <andypugh> I just emailed my sister to see if she was aware of it.
[00:10:45] <andypugh> She makes really nice things with modelling clay, but her day-job is as a jeweler...
[00:11:00] <WalterN> oh nice
[00:11:34] <CaptHindsight> methyl cellulose and/or ethyl cellulose
[00:11:56] <WalterN> my sister ended up joining the army
[00:12:28] <CaptHindsight> does she make military jewelry?
[00:12:42] <Loetmichel> WalterN: something about the hight illiterate rate in the army comes to mind...
[00:13:08] <andypugh> I have had a long-term plan to make a new case for a watch I have. I wonder if that would be a reasonable starting point to make a blank to machine.
[00:14:22] <CaptHindsight> "the content of the precious metal powder has been determined so as to range from 50 to 90% by weight."
[00:15:13] <andypugh> I tried to persuade my sister to lend me a lump of gold to make a CNC turning video with. (The idea being to give it all back for re-melting afterards :-)
[00:15:27] <WalterN> Loetmichel: what?
[00:15:39] <Tom_itx> haha, i bet she went for that...
[00:16:07] <WalterN> andypugh: ha... of course she said no
[00:16:18] <andypugh> She pointed out that it woild cost thousands for a big enough bit, and they didn't keep that sort of lump in stock.
[00:16:42] <andypugh> I think she would have gone for it if they had it.
[00:16:59] <WalterN> you could do silver quite a bit cheaper and it would still be considered classy
[00:17:43] <CaptHindsight> copper with <1um flash gold
[00:18:14] <Loetmichel> WalterN: nothing. i just hat the picture of a blonde navy seal with black paint in her face appearing before my inner eye, sorry.
[00:18:40] <WalterN> Loetmichel: oh lol... my sister is very not blond XD
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[00:23:18] <WalterN> I still want to try anodizing... bleh
[00:23:22] <WalterN> been so busy
[00:24:34] <jthornton> I finally got enough stuff out of the way to finish setting up my anodizing line, now all I need is time
[00:24:55] <andypugh> My sister is blonde, and has a really cute little oxy-fuel welder: https://picasaweb.google.com/doltonsjewellers/Workshop#5032587453469365410
[00:25:43] <andypugh> I am not sure she ever manages to get her hands clean.
[00:25:51] <Loetmichel> nice. and my age for the looks of it...
[00:26:10] <andypugh> A year younger than me, so 45.
[00:26:16] <Loetmichel> wanna introduce me?
[00:26:17] <Loetmichel> ;-)
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[00:26:52] <jthornton> she does jewelry?
[00:26:54] <Loetmichel> (just kidding, i am happily married ;-)
[00:27:24] <andypugh> jthornton: Yes, that's what jewellers do :-)
[00:27:28] <Loetmichel> andypugh: but can she weld "wood"?
[00:27:59] <jthornton> you have to use mahogany welding rods
[00:28:09] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=2812 <- thats me some 10 years ago ;-)
[00:28:22] <CaptHindsight> I wonder what the metal panel looks like on their blood work?
[00:28:28] <andypugh> Welding wood is hard graft.
[00:28:33] <CaptHindsight> https://picasaweb.google.com/doltonsjewellers/Workshop#5032587496419038450
[00:28:35] <Loetmichel> (chinese plastic christmas decoration with steel wires inside
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[00:29:19] <CaptHindsight> working with nanoscale metal powders all the time
[00:29:25] <Loetmichel> ... which tends to break often)
[00:30:05] <andypugh> CaptHindsight: Ah, I only just iunderstood the question. Yes, I guess there is probably a lot of gold inside her.
[00:30:48] <Loetmichel> so, wife calls for being "ruffled to sleep"
[00:30:58] <Loetmichel> cu tomorrow morning ;-)
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[00:35:34] <andypugh> I am looking at http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/RDGTOOLS-Boxford-Lathe-Change-Gear-Stud-with-Bush-/370397019303 and wondering if change-gear studs normally have a bronze bush or not?
[00:36:47] <archivist> I dont think I have ever seen a bronze bush in that application
[00:38:37] <MacGalempsy> evening everyone
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[00:40:12] <andypugh> I am fairly sure that my dad's Smart and Brown has bushes. But I am not sure they are original.
[00:40:20] <andypugh> Hi MacGalempsy
[00:40:59] <CaptHindsight> anyone else following the "USB Camera for edge finder?" discussion on the ML?
[00:41:00] <archivist> even the Mikron hobbing machine at the old job and the one I have here do not
[00:41:02] <MacGalempsy> you guys have a nice day?
[00:41:46] <archivist> CaptHindsight, I did at the beginning
[00:42:31] <CaptHindsight> I using a $10K zoom microscope lens and high res camera to not only detect edges but defects on surfaces and store their positions
[00:43:18] <CaptHindsight> then going back over them with tools, lasers or inkjet nozzles
[00:43:45] <andypugh> I used to design machines for chip inspection and mechanical testing. Those had good optics.
[00:43:51] <archivist> I saw a camera used to get a 3d model of a self tapping screw yesterday (Nikon)
[00:44:03] <MacGalempsy> whats the significant difference between the usb camera and the $10K microscope?
[00:44:14] <MacGalempsy> ther than about $9550
[00:44:18] <andypugh> I wonder if this is a bargain? http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Sogenique-Societe-Genevoise-Chesterman-Electronic-Height-Gauge-/360638515651?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item53f7bb09c3
[00:44:28] <CaptHindsight> archivist: how did they scan the part?
[00:44:28] <andypugh> MacGalempsy: Good optics.
[00:44:36] <WalterN> good optics is bloody expensive
[00:44:37] <archivist> lens and mounting on the usb stuff is less than good
[00:44:49] <CaptHindsight> MacGalempsy: we resolve down to ~1um
[00:44:52] <MacGalempsy> sure, but an hd webcam with a lense would be about the same, right?
[00:44:59] <MacGalempsy> wow
[00:45:08] <archivist> CaptHindsight, depth and by use of focus
[00:45:14] <MacGalempsy> by lense, I mean add-on
[00:45:15] <CaptHindsight> MacGalempsy: from 1cm away
[00:45:26] <MacGalempsy> ah, yes, the distance
[00:45:40] <MacGalempsy> focal length can be a bugger
[00:45:57] <archivist> as usual I have my littl gears or parts in my pocket to try
[00:46:39] <archivist> they use focal length to advantage in the 3d surface reconstruction
[00:47:21] <CaptHindsight> are there any low cost ethernet HD cameras? They seem to be looking for <$100 solutions that "just work"
[00:48:07] <archivist> best usb camera I have seen is about £200
[00:49:03] <CaptHindsight> they were ruling out USB due to real time issues, where the machine is vs where the camera was vs is
[00:49:10] <WalterN> yeah
[00:49:47] <MacGalempsy> I have an extra axis network cam you could part out
[00:49:52] <WalterN> I've always wanted to make a high speed high resolution camera for recording things like bullets flying in front of it
[00:50:09] <MacGalempsy> the PT is broken, but the camera sent signals
[00:50:13] <WalterN> 1000+ frames/second in 1080p color or better
[00:50:16] <MacGalempsy> but it is not hp
[00:50:18] <MacGalempsy> hd
[00:50:29] <MacGalempsy> wow. now that would be impressive
[00:50:35] <CaptHindsight> at least the ethernet cameras have a determined latency
[00:50:37] <archivist> CaptHindsight, fleabay 200604763701
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[00:51:35] <archivist> I think one needs to stop take image move on so usb would be ok
[00:51:35] <MacGalempsy> unfortunately, a HD network cam will be about $3k
[00:52:20] <archivist> real speedy cameras were at the show, but dont ask the price :)
[00:52:47] <CaptHindsight> yeah, move the machine to the area near the edge, get it in frame
[00:52:47] <WalterN> the PCIe 3.0 buss is fast enough to handle the throughput for such a highspeed camera
[00:52:53] <andypugh> CaptHindsight: The operative search term is "Ip Camera"
[00:53:09] <CaptHindsight> take a measurement, move the machine, remeasure
[00:53:14] <WalterN> but I'm not sure if the memory in a computer is fast enough... heh
[00:53:25] <WalterN> for dumping raw image data
[00:53:27] <andypugh> I have one in my workshop.
[00:53:51] <andypugh> (on a shelf, turned off)
[00:53:56] <CaptHindsight> andypugh: I was not using that term since it tends to mean more of a low cost security cam vs precision optics and sensor
[00:54:27] <archivist> but any system has latency if you stop while you check your image you get rid of motion blur and dont care about latency
[00:55:29] <MacGalempsy> one possibility would be to use an HD analog cam, then use a converter to move the image. the older analog cams are cheaper, and there are a variety of different lens
[00:55:31] <CaptHindsight> WalterN: a new PC is
[00:55:43] <archivist> live streaming whatever method is really delayed a bit
[00:55:57] <CaptHindsight> not an old 100mhz pentium with ISA bus
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[00:56:18] <andypugh> I suspect that Keyence will have something, at a price :-)
[00:56:43] <WalterN> CaptHindsight: so DDR3 1600mhz would handle the throughput?
[00:56:55] <WalterN> I kinda assumed it would, just never calculated it
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[00:57:14] <MacGalempsy> I am amazed by some of the resolution that some of the reprappers get looking at their .1mm layer heights
[00:57:33] <WalterN> I did calculate the PCIe buss, as well as the kind of rad data I would be pulling from the camera
[00:57:50] <WalterN> talk about working the computer IO over... heh
[00:58:38] <andypugh> My USB camera does actually cause realtime delay messages on my controller.
[00:58:59] <andypugh> (Well, one of the several that I have does, anyway)
[00:59:45] <CaptHindsight> we were doing real time capture and DSP processing back in the 80's on PC-AT's, ISA was just for control and power, we had a separate backplane/bus for the image data
[01:00:22] <CaptHindsight> 30 fps at 512 x 512 8b per pixel
[01:00:24] <archivist> the fast camera I saw yesterday was showing slowmo of race car test crash on the nose
[01:01:47] <CaptHindsight> WalterN: did you find a sensor fast enough?
[01:02:04] <archivist> looked like they grabbed it in the camera then passed it back
[01:03:10] <WalterN> CaptHindsight: thats something that I couldent find out... can a CCD just be probed that fast?
[01:03:18] <CaptHindsight> the last high speed camera I built was back in the 90's, we used several sensors along with spinning mirrors to get the speeds
[01:04:20] <CaptHindsight> WalterN: depends on the design, Kodak and few other had the sensors but didn't always sell them as a component, you had to buy the $250K system
[01:04:22] <archivist> heh photron 1 megapixel at 13500 fps just found it in the show guide
[01:04:49] <WalterN> I mean, when you take a picture, you get a shutter speed of less 1/1000s without a problem...
[01:05:07] <CaptHindsight> we built them for monitoring blasting at strip mines
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[01:05:49] <CaptHindsight> the main cost is the explosives so they have to optimize the blasts
[01:06:05] <WalterN> or is there a 'cool down' time for CCDs?
[01:07:20] <WalterN> thats what I couldent find any information on
[01:07:21] <CaptHindsight> the CCD's were sensitive to count single photons, but the bandwidth was limited by the buffers
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[01:08:33] <WalterN> so its not the actual sensor thats slowing everything down
[01:09:05] <CaptHindsight> back then it was the A/D and the speeds you could clock the buffers/latches
[01:09:17] <mpictor> speaking of high speed cameras, do any of you remember reading an article about a high speed camera on a satellite telescope?
[01:09:52] <mpictor> femtosecond comes to mind, but surely it wasn't *that* fast!
[01:10:23] <CaptHindsight> http://www.stanfordcomputeroptics.com/applications/iccd-methods/ultra-high-speed-imaging.html
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[01:10:43] <CaptHindsight> "The motion of a 250 femtoseconds Laser pulse captured by the ICCD camera 4 Picos"
[01:10:59] <WalterN> o.0
[01:11:03] <mpictor> yea
[01:11:20] <CaptHindsight> watching light in flight
[01:11:33] <mpictor> the one I'm thinking of used some exotic semiconductor process that was extremely expensive, extremely fast, and extremely sensitive
[01:12:48] <WalterN> wouldent need to if its in a bose einstein condensate :P
[01:13:40] <WalterN> CaptHindsight: where is a good place to get thermal imaging sensors?
[01:13:59] <archivist> alicona uk ltd also had and interesting camera derived system for looking at surface profile
[01:14:04] <CaptHindsight> what wavelength and resolution?
[01:14:46] <archivist> a certain thermal camera company tried to rip us off at a previous company
[01:15:31] <CaptHindsight> WalterN: check out their buyers guides http://www.photonics.com/ http://www.photonicsspectra-digital.com
[01:16:22] <WalterN> wavelength... heat is typically perceived at about what CO2 lasers are at I think
[01:16:51] <CaptHindsight> WalterN: but you can't work on them until you've anodized something and used the laser to sinter some plastic powder :)
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[01:17:04] <WalterN> yeahyeah
[01:17:19] <WalterN> so many projects, no money to work on them with
[01:17:27] <WalterN> or time
[01:19:49] <WalterN> heh, space lasers
[01:19:56] <WalterN> makes me think of that song..
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[01:20:24] <WalterN> space unicorn http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=17o1OlroNSE XD
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[01:21:16] <CaptHindsight> http://www.hamamatsu.com/eu/en/product/alpha/C/4214/S11510-1106/index.html IR-enhanced CCD area image sensor
[01:22:07] <CaptHindsight> http://www.hamamatsu.com/eu/en/product/alpha/C/4214/index.html these are all sensitive up to ~1100nm
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[01:32:48] <CaptHindsight> http://www.ptgreystore.com/usb-30 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JhkA-GjFKio this would make a nice machine vision alignment camera, but i think they want a CMOS camera with a plastic lens for $25
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[01:35:14] <archivist> ew login or register to view prices.....
[01:36:22] <MacGalempsy> this morning, I was trying to get the enable command to the 7i77 to enable the amp. The amp requires a ground to enable. in the 7i77 manual it talks about "Active high drive enables, ENAN+ goes to the psu and the ENAN- is used to enable input to control power ground" does that make sense?
[01:37:09] <archivist> MacGalempsy, did you see the message from pcw to you about that
[01:37:19] <MacGalempsy> oh, no
[01:37:23] <MacGalempsy> let me look back
[01:37:47] <CaptHindsight> ~10 hours ago
[01:39:40] <MacGalempsy> ah yes I see that
[01:39:46] <MacGalempsy> so the way I had it hooked up was correct
[01:39:48] <MacGalempsy> ...
[01:40:03] <CaptHindsight> I have a 7i77 here, but it's not hooked up right now :)
[01:40:41] <archivist> yes but can you scope your connections and see if the meet the spec and are changing
[01:43:08] <CaptHindsight> yeah, page 14 of the manual, they try to explain in simple language how to hook it up vs an equivalent schematic of the circuit
[01:43:36] <CaptHindsight> For active high drive enables, ENAN+ should go to the appropriate positive power supply and ENAN- to the drive enable input.
[01:43:57] <CaptHindsight> For active low enable drives, ENAN+ should go the the drive enable and ENAN- to control power ground.
[01:45:41] <CaptHindsight> MacGalempsy: if ground or a zero (0) or (active low) is the enable for your amp
[01:46:10] <CaptHindsight> then ENAN+ should go the the drive enable and ENAN- to control power ground
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[01:47:17] <CaptHindsight> and they caution you not to swap the + and - lines
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[01:50:01] <CaptHindsight> MacGalempsy: so the 7i77 acts as a switch that is open when the drive is not enabled
[01:50:22] <CaptHindsight> MacGalempsy: the switch closes to enable you servo drive
[01:51:33] <CaptHindsight> the voltage comes from your servo drive at a +, when the 7i77 enables the drive it closes a switch that pulls the + voltage from the servo drive down to ground or -
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[01:53:02] <MacGalempsy> strange is that when I power them up the ena+ and ena- both show 5v
[01:53:21] <MacGalempsy> and the pin value is true
[01:53:37] <MacGalempsy> oh, let me check them when I jog
[01:53:44] <CaptHindsight> what servo amp/drive is it? lets check the specs
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[02:01:36] <CaptHindsight> MacGalempsy: how are you measuring the + and - for the drive enable?
[02:03:43] <MacGalempsy> ok back. let me get the link to the datasheet
[02:04:17] <MacGalempsy> http://www.copleycontrols.com/motion/pdf/4122.pdf
[02:06:32] <CaptHindsight> ( Default function with JP-1 on pins 2-3. For +5V enable and GND inhibit, move JP1 to pins 1-2 )
[02:06:34] <MacGalempsy> so when i check the voltage, I put the + on the ena+ and the grnd on the common groundbar.
[02:06:42] <CaptHindsight> how do you have the jumpers set?
[02:07:24] <MacGalempsy> ok. I have enable and reset on common grd
[02:07:42] <MacGalempsy> enapos to ENA+ and enaneg to _
[02:07:45] <MacGalempsy> -
[02:07:54] <MacGalempsy> ENA-
[02:08:20] <CaptHindsight> how about JP-1 on the drive?
[02:08:34] <MacGalempsy> jumpers are 2-3
[02:08:34] <CaptHindsight> is it on pins 2-3 or 1-2?
[02:09:01] <MacGalempsy> the green light on the drive is on because enable and reset are grounded
[02:09:16] <CaptHindsight> has it been set there the entire time that the 7i77 was hooked up to it?
[02:09:30] <MacGalempsy> yes
[02:10:21] <MacGalempsy> from what I put together, the /POSenable and /NEGenable on the drive go to ENA+ and ENA- on the 7i77
[02:10:50] <MacGalempsy> but the /POSenable and /NEGenable are transmitting 5v, and they need to show ground instead
[02:11:47] <CaptHindsight> /Reset ground for self-reset every 200 ms.
[02:11:55] <MacGalempsy> and ref (+) goes to pwr and ref(-) goes to gnd
[02:12:16] <CaptHindsight> so you have a self rest every 200ms right now
[02:12:58] <MacGalempsy> yes
[02:13:49] <MacGalempsy> take that off gnd and try?
[02:14:17] <CaptHindsight> yes, since you are generating a reset 5 times per second right now
[02:15:12] <CaptHindsight> I'm still trying to interpret what "/POS enable, /NEG enable Gnd enables positive or negative output currents." is supposed to mean
[02:16:03] <CaptHindsight> but there's a diagram on the next page
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[02:18:00] <CaptHindsight> Reset should be normally OPEN
[02:18:23] <MacGalempsy> pg4 has the definitiions and basically, it says that a load on posena and and negena will inhibit the drives
[02:18:32] <MacGalempsy> and right now those lines are getting 5v each
[02:18:59] <MacGalempsy> what I cannot figure out is how to have those lines connect to gnd instead
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[02:20:53] <CaptHindsight> tie them to GND pin 10
[02:21:21] <MacGalempsy> physically or through the card?
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[02:22:41] <CaptHindsight> pin 10, 12, 13 tied together and pin 10 to 7i77 ENAN - and Pin 11 to ENAN +
[02:24:02] <MacGalempsy> ok
[02:24:08] <CaptHindsight> /POSenable and /NEGenable have awful descriptions in that spec
[02:24:31] <MacGalempsy> do I need to change the jumpers on jp1?
[02:24:56] <CaptHindsight> no it should be the default 2-3
[02:25:03] <MacGalempsy> ok let me go try that
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[02:25:45] <CaptHindsight> be sure the power is off
[02:26:43] <CaptHindsight> /Reset can be left on Ground or 0V to have it automatically clear faults every 200ms
[02:27:15] <CaptHindsight> when first read the spec it wasn't clear
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[02:29:19] <CaptHindsight> the drive will signal a Green even if the /POSenable and /NEGenable are not set to Ground 0V
[02:31:41] <CaptHindsight> the /POSenable and /NEGenable seem to be there to limit the motor to only rotate in one direction
[02:34:40] <CaptHindsight> page 7 /POS & /NEG ENABLE INPUTS, HFC! who wrote this?
[02:39:15] <CaptHindsight> it's for torque limiting, so if you trigger the limit it lets the drive reverse direction only
[02:41:00] <CaptHindsight> not torque limit, it's for if the drive trips a limit switch, it's only lets the drive back out
[02:42:44] <CaptHindsight> nope looks like the first interpretation
[02:43:08] <CaptHindsight> thats why there are people called technical editors
[02:45:16] <MacGarage> still no movement
[02:45:41] <MacGarage> when enabled now the voltage on ena+ is .45v
[02:46:34] <MacGarage> when the machine is off, it has 5v
[02:48:34] <MacGalempsy> im thinking about changing jp1 to 1-2
[02:49:57] <MacGalempsy> nevermind, that would enable when off...
[02:50:39] <CaptHindsight> yes, now the /enable is active low so 0.45V is low
[02:51:19] <CaptHindsight> is the led Green on eht drive?
[02:51:25] <CaptHindsight> eht/the
[02:51:27] <MacGarage> no
[02:53:18] <CaptHindsight> how about if you wire pin 11 /enable to ground (pin 10) as well?
[02:54:42] <CaptHindsight> JP1 on pins 2-3, Pin 10, 11, 12 and 13 tied together should give you a Green
[02:55:29] <CaptHindsight> pin 15 /RESET also to Pin 10 for auto-reset
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[03:05:38] <CaptHindsight> page 5 of the drive data sheet has the list of values for the components RH12 (peak current limit), RH13 (continuous current), CH14 (peak current time limit) and RH15, CH17 and CH16 for armature inductance that you have to have in place
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[03:07:19] <CaptHindsight> have to go, BBL
[03:07:40] <MacGarage> k. thanks for the help.
[03:16:30] <CaptHindsight> if you had the Green before it should have ben set to go with the /POSenable and /NEGenable left open
[03:16:50] <CaptHindsight> so if it wasn't moving something else was wrong
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[03:18:19] <MacGarage> all green now
[03:19:50] <MacGarage> when i gnd /POSenable it faults
[03:21:53] <MacGarage> however, when I put juice on /POSenable it goes green and should be ready
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[03:23:39] <MacGarage> have to reboot
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[03:30:04] <jdh> http://tinyurl.com/kmq6yoy anyone used one of these? Like a leadshine version of a G540
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[03:33:34] <Jymmm> jdh: No, but Marris does soem pretty good shit
[03:35:02] <Jymmm> jdh: How many places will do a one-time swap if you fess up that you broke it.
[03:35:19] <Jymmm> mis-wired, is-configed, etc
[03:35:27] <Jymmm> mis-configed, etc
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[04:00:17] <MacGarage> http://pastebin.com/fp5qeu5J
[04:00:21] <MacGarage> needed that for the other room
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[04:11:03] <CaptHindsight> http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/11/13/3d-guns-atf_n_4269303.html Feds Printed Their Own 3D Gun And It Literally Blew Up In Their Faces
[04:11:31] <Tom_itx> so did their website
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[04:13:23] <CaptHindsight> blowing stuff up is what they are good at :)
[04:13:43] <Tom_itx> seems so
[04:14:05] <Tom_itx> at great expense no less
[04:14:33] <Tom_itx> the private sector can always do a better job at much less cost
[04:14:45] <CaptHindsight> not always
[04:14:51] <CaptHindsight> depends on the goal
[04:15:05] <Tom_itx> ok 98% of the time
[04:15:58] <CaptHindsight> privatizing the roads, water supply, fire dept, military doesn't work out too well
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[04:37:04] <MacGalempsy> yay it just moved
[04:37:13] <MacGalempsy> hit the limit and killed the program
[04:37:15] <RyanS> Any idea how long those E size Argon cylinders last for mig?
[04:38:41] <MacGalempsy> so it comes down that the /POSenable and /NEG enable need to be powered and grounded,
[04:38:58] <MacGalempsy> switching the polarity reverses the motor
[04:41:50] <CaptHindsight> RyanS: E size = ~25 cubic feet?
[04:42:19] <RyanS> Not sure
[04:42:38] <CaptHindsight> http://wagnerweldingsupply.com/pdfs/cylsize.pdf
[04:45:52] <CaptHindsight> if the reg is set to about 20C cfh a 20 cf bottle will last about 1 hr of welding, an 80 about 4 hrs
[04:46:42] <RyanS> And the disposable ones are rubbish I hear....
[04:47:12] <CaptHindsight> I have the big tanks >300CF
[04:47:31] <CaptHindsight> depends on where you get yours filled is the usual question
[04:47:50] <CaptHindsight> many places here will only swap their own tanks
[04:49:03] <RyanS> I just asked at a local place in Australia they won't touch Any other tanks
[04:50:30] <CaptHindsight> I have a place nearby that swaps any tanks I show up with, $100 L size tanks on Craigslist have worked out well for me
[04:51:02] <RyanS> actually my old mans welder... Of course they fail to mention to most people that you can't really weld aluminium without spool gun
[04:51:53] <RyanS> anyway, stainless steel is what I want to do so. No issue with that
[04:54:32] <RyanS> TIG looks much neato
[04:55:51] <CaptHindsight> I would want to get a 100CF min. tank if I was doing anything on a regular basis
[04:56:12] <CaptHindsight> they always seem to run out right before you're done with a project
[04:56:26] <CaptHindsight> so get 2 bottles
[04:56:49] <CaptHindsight> so you have one while you get the other filled
[04:57:44] <RyanS> $200 year rental ..
[04:57:59] <CaptHindsight> do they deliver?
[04:58:34] <MacGalempsy> CaptHindsight: the way it appear to work with the /POSenable and /NEGenable is, they need to be polar opposites to let current flow in one direction or the other. so if /POSenable is grounded, the motor spins in one direction, but both cannot be the same at the same time
[04:59:37] <CaptHindsight> MacGalempsy: figures, the writing is terrible for that section
[04:59:58] <MacGalempsy> therefore, I am considering switching JP1 to 1-2 for positive intead of ground, that way it can run on analog enable out
[05:00:24] <MacGalempsy> and power the drive, then the other two leads will have to go to outs with some logic
[05:00:55] <MacGalempsy> like clockwise is posenable + and negenable -.
[05:01:03] <MacGalempsy> does that sound correct?
[05:01:46] <CaptHindsight> your guess is as good as mine without having a schematic of that driver
[05:02:03] <MacGalempsy> k
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[05:02:38] <CaptHindsight> if it works as you describe then what is all that talk about limits all about?
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[05:05:13] <MacGalempsy> limit was end limit
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[05:13:43] <MacGalempsy> CaptHindsight: do you use a 7i77?
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[05:24:44] <CaptHindsight> MacGalempsy: I have one sitting here, I'll probably get back to using it next week
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[05:55:29] <MacGalempsy> I think it is just about there. as of now, it will only go forward. and the ENA0- still shows +5V, which needs to change to ground.
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[07:14:42] <smart210> hello
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[08:23:56] <Loetmichel> Mornin'
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[08:46:40] <MacGalempsy> morning Loetmichel
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[08:51:23] <_DJ_> moin
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[09:19:10] <RyanS> TECO
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[10:14:31] <MacGalempsy> morning DJ - como ca va?
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[11:48:43] <hiroshima5> hi, i've get four baldor motors with microflex e100 drives what have canbus and ethernet powerlinks i/o.
[11:48:58] <hiroshima5> is there any chance to use them with emc2????
[11:49:41] <MacGalempsy> probably. it is very flexible
[11:50:31] <MacGalempsy> the best thing to do is start reading!
[11:51:11] <hiroshima5> i've been reading a lot about this
[11:51:23] <MacGalempsy> me too and I still dont get it
[11:51:36] <hiroshima5> there is one thesis project
[11:52:14] <hiroshima5> a polish university that tell they have done it
[11:52:33] <hiroshima5> http://repozytorium.umk.pl/bitstream/handle/item/426/Powerlink_CNC_2012.06.19%20-%20IEEE%20Transactions%20on%20Industrial%20Informatics%20-%20FINAL.pdf
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[11:57:26] <jthornton> MacGalempsy, did you read Peter's reply to you yesterday?
[11:57:41] <MacGalempsy> yep. got the drive to move. but it will only go forward
[11:57:51] <MacGalempsy> and the EN0- still shows 5v
[11:58:19] <MacGalempsy> need to do one more report. brb
[11:58:24] <jthornton> ok
[12:01:22] <hiroshima5> MacGalempsy are you using a fpga?
[12:01:43] <MacGalempsy> mesa 5i25/7i77
[12:04:02] <hiroshima5> and do you use a powerlink connection to the drives????
[12:04:46] <MacGalempsy> nope. I got old analog equipment, except the digital spindle drive,
[12:05:32] <hiroshima5> ahh ok ok
[12:09:27] <MacGalempsy> nothing better for consulting than drilling in underbalanced scenarios, they have to drill sooooo slow
[12:09:30] <MacGalempsy> ok done
[12:12:21] <MacGalempsy> so jthornton - I was able to move the drive forward. there is a /POSenable and a /NEGenable on the card, and grounding one, or the other is supposed to feed power in that direction. what i was experiementing with is ground one, then try to move, then ground the other and try to move.
[12:13:57] <jthornton> so your drive does not use +-10v to control velocity and direction?
[12:15:17] <MacGalempsy> it should but when I try to run -power it wont go backwards
[12:16:23] <MacGalempsy> this is the amp datasheet. page 4 has a description of the /POSenable and /net enablehttp://www.copleycontrols.com/motion/pdf/4122.pdf
[12:16:34] <MacGalempsy> this is the amp datasheet. page 4 has a description of the /POSenable and /net enable http://www.copleycontrols.com/motion/pdf/4122.pdf
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[12:18:05] <MacGalempsy> it says pos and neg enable inputs remain ground active for failsafe operation, but when I got to ground /pos it faults the amp
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[12:18:56] <jthornton> you have a tach on the motor hooked to the drive?
[12:18:59] <Tom_itx> have you been testing just one axis?
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[12:19:19] <jthornton> looking at typical connections the figure on the right is velocity
[12:19:27] <jthornton> is that how yours is conneced up?
[12:22:31] <jthornton> the pos and neg enable are used with limit switches
[12:23:29] <MacGarage> so when I jog+ it will move forward
[12:25:49] <jthornton> if pos/enable is open then it will not allow you to move in the + direction ie. if your sitting on the positive limit switch
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[12:27:14] <MacGarage> actually, when I try to jog negative, it still shows positive
[12:27:23] <MacGarage> but the axis doesnt move
[12:27:38] <Tom_itx> have you tested this on more than one axis?
[12:27:39] <MacGarage> it meaning the HALMETER
[12:28:12] <jthornton> are all the enables grounded?
[12:28:40] <MacGarage> in order to power up the drive, the /posenable cannot be grounded
[12:30:30] <jthornton> that doesn't sound right
[12:30:47] <jthornton> I can see the enable needed to be open but not the limits
[12:30:56] <Tom_itx> it was why i was asking if you have tested on more than one axis
[12:31:27] <MacGarage> like just change the servo amp to another one/
[12:33:22] <jthornton> JP1 is on pins 2-3?
[12:33:36] <MacGarage> yes
[12:34:41] <jthornton> the drive should not complain if terminals 12 and 13 are grounded
[12:34:55] <Tom_itx> agreed
[12:35:00] <Tom_itx> what's the state of 14?
[12:35:07] <Tom_itx> +5 indicates fault
[12:35:10] <Tom_itx> GND is good
[12:35:18] <MacGarage> 12 requires power. if I try to ground it the drive faults
[12:35:21] <jthornton> in fact you could hard wire them grounded and use LinuxCNC to disable the drive
[12:35:53] <Tom_itx> maybe not a bad idea until you get it going at least
[12:35:58] <MacGarage> 14 reads false
[12:36:01] <jthornton> both 12 and 13 say Gnd to enable output current in
[12:36:02] <jthornton> one polarity, open or +5V to inhibit
[12:36:02] <jthornton> Typically used with grounded, nor
[12:36:02] <jthornton> mally closed limit switches.
[12:36:29] <MacGarage> false and the green light shows the drive is enabled
[12:37:10] <MacGarage> the model of control is a 800-469 and the only one that looked the same is that one I linked to
[12:37:29] <MacGarage> I think it was a custom job because 4 are on a single plate
[12:38:18] <jthornton> ok have you tried to call copley and get a manual for your drives?
[12:38:43] <MacGarage> actually now that I look closer jp is in 1-2
[12:38:56] <jthornton> hmmm
[12:39:06] <MacGarage> the board is one way and the sticker is the opposite
[12:39:57] <MacGarage> regardless, why would it go forward and not backward?
[12:39:58] <jthornton> so JP1 on pins 1-2 mean to not ground 12 and 13
[12:40:31] <jthornton> if you ground 12 or 13 it will not allow the drive to go that direction with JP1 on 1-2
[12:40:39] <MacGarage> 11 & 13 are grounded
[12:40:45] <MacGarage> 12 requires power
[12:41:39] <jthornton> by grounding 13 you are telling the drive to not move in the - direction
[12:42:35] <jthornton> 12 and 13 should have 5v to enable with JP1 on 1-2
[12:44:16] <Tom_itx> Default function with JP-1 on pins 2-3. For +5V enable and GND inhibit, move JP1 to pins 1-2
[12:44:23] <Tom_itx> seems that is backwards
[12:44:26] <Tom_itx> from what you want
[12:45:06] <jthornton> it can work either way, you just have to pick one that suits your situation
[12:45:13] <Tom_itx> agreed
[12:45:33] <Tom_itx> we typically use GND limits though
[12:46:05] <MacGarage> that is just the way it came setup
[12:46:49] <MacGarage> but, now that 12 & 13 have power the drive doesnt move
[12:47:42] <Tom_itx> sounds about right
[12:47:48] <Tom_itx> they are / active
[12:47:48] <jthornton> and 11 has 5v?
[12:48:41] <Tom_itx> also / active
[12:48:49] <jthornton> For /Inhibit function at J2-11 ( +5V enables ), move JP1 to pins 1-2
[12:49:09] <MacGarage> 11 is grounded
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[12:49:29] <jthornton> that will stop the drive
[12:50:26] <MacGarage> but it still goes forward
[12:50:35] <Tom_itx> 5v on 11 will inhibit the drive according to the Connectors and PInouts chart
[12:51:03] <jthornton> if JP1 is on 2-3
[12:51:26] <MacGarage> pulling one out so i can see the jumper numbers'
[12:51:31] <Tom_itx> has he tried moving them to 2-3?
[12:52:25] <Tom_itx> that would also allow for the GND limits
[12:53:28] <MacGarage> looking at j1, the "J1" reads as a header to the pins, and they are set to the left 1-2
[12:53:49] <MacGarage> maybe I should switch this one around and see what kind of results we get
[12:53:58] <jthornton> in that position you need 5v to enable
[12:54:16] <jthornton> on 2-3 you ground to enable
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[12:55:01] <Tom_itx> do those inputs require pullups in that state so no false input is read?
[12:56:07] <MacGarage> powering enable faults the drive, and it cannot be reset
[13:02:27] <MacGarage> is it possible reverse is burned up on the motor?
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[13:03:02] <Tom_itx> you would have likely seen or smelled something
[13:03:06] <Tom_itx> i rather doubt it
[13:04:33] <MacGarage> halmeter axis.o.course-pos-cmd is really small
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[13:05:56] <jthornton> what position is JP1 in now?
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[14:43:53] * Loetmichel is milling the first few boards for the audio amp: http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=14498 ... engraving bit could be sharper, but it works (selfmade out of old broken TC mill bit)
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[14:54:10] <MacGalempsy> well, I had to take a break. that is driving me nuts
[14:54:39] <MacGalempsy> before the motor would move smoothly. now it moves a little and the amp faults out
[14:55:39] <MacGalempsy> if I turn down the pid number in callibration mode it wont move, if I run it up to 100 the drive will move, but then eventually fault the amp
[14:56:03] <archivist> drive not seeing feedback?
[14:56:32] <MacGalempsy> would that have to do with the tach lines?
[14:57:15] <MacGalempsy> the tach lines are plugged into the the motor leads
[14:59:06] <MacGalempsy> anyways, I called the company copely controls to ask about the proper data sheet, but had to leave a message. Hopefully the guy will call back later.
[15:02:06] <MacGalempsy> im going to bed. thanks again everyone. thinking about starting to try the same thing on the y axis and see if something else happens. ciao
[15:02:51] <archivist> the tach lines plugged into motor leads sound very wrong
[15:03:33] <archivist> or are you stating it incorrectly
[15:03:57] <MacGalempsy> the manual said to connect the leads to the positive and negative terminals
[15:04:03] <MacGalempsy> of the motor
[15:04:21] <archivist> the tach lines come from the motor and go to the amp as far as I know
[15:04:23] <jdh> that woudl be interesting
[15:04:35] <MacGalempsy> so I connected them to the power to motor lines
[15:04:46] <jdh> the tach lines come from the tach, which might be attached to the motor
[15:04:47] <archivist> the amp out drives the motor NOT the tach
[15:05:31] <ju-emb> magic smoke is still inside the tach?
[15:05:32] <archivist> fat wires power, thin wires tach
[15:06:26] <MacGalempsy> there is no tach leads coming from the motor
[15:06:51] <archivist> motor... how many wires
[15:07:00] <MacGalempsy> they were connected to the old mainboard
[15:08:51] <archivist> tach is an input on the amp,
[15:10:41] <MacGarage> ok i disconnected that and it moves smoothly in the pos dir onlyh
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[15:12:50] <MacGarage> how do I tell if linux cnc is sending it negative voltage?
[15:13:03] <archivist> meter/scope
[15:13:16] <MacGarage> I have the meter out but not sure of the exact pin
[15:13:28] <archivist> and is negative even possible
[15:13:47] <MacGarage> some how the polarity has to switch to reverse the motor, no?
[15:14:20] <archivist> depends where the zero point is,
[15:15:04] <MacGarage> zero point?
[15:15:22] <archivist> what voltage means stationary
[15:16:32] <pcw_home> You will need the tach wired to the drive for any reasonable behaviour
[15:17:28] <archivist> does he have a tach
[15:17:31] <MacGarage> the tach are leads coming from the drive that were wired to the old controller board
[15:17:52] <pcw_home> Do the motors have Tachometers?
[15:18:20] <MacGarage> only 2 wires coming from the motors
[15:19:00] <pcw_home> only encoders on the back of motors?
[15:19:01] <MacGarage> the datasheet said to connect the tach lines to the positive and negative terminals of the motors
[15:19:24] <MacGarage> encoders are attached to the pulleys
[15:20:22] <MacGarage> perhaps I need to tune the PID first?
[15:20:25] <pcw_home> tach input to motor leads sounds wrong
[15:20:46] <MacGarage> i disconnected the tach to motor leads and the faulting stopped
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[15:21:16] <MacGarage> when I first thought about the tach, I thought it was just for output
[15:21:54] <pcw_home> no point in messing with linuxcnc unless you can drive the motors back and forth with a small voltage (say 1.5V battery)
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[15:25:12] <pcw_home> Without tachometer feedback you are either going to have to run the motor in torque mode
[15:25:13] <pcw_home> (which will involve changing the settings on the drive) or use spare 7I77 analog outputs to
[15:25:15] <pcw_home> simulate the tachometer (assuming +-10V is enough voltage for the tach input)
[15:25:23] <MacGalempsy> is there a way to send the appropriate signal to the tachs with linuxcnc?
[15:25:41] <MacGalempsy> ok
[15:26:17] <MacGalempsy> will start reading up how to do that
[15:26:43] <pcw_home> Do you have a drive manual?
[15:27:04] <MacGalempsy> the closest one I can find is http://www.copleycontrols.com/motion/pdf/4122.pdf
[15:27:53] <MacGalempsy> physically the drives are the same, but on this one, /POSenable will fault the drive if it is grounded
[15:28:20] <MacGalempsy> so if I leave it open or powered then the drive enables
[15:31:06] <MacGalempsy> if I was running in torque mode, would anything need to change?
[15:32:13] <MacGalempsy> the digital drive has a toggle to torque mode, i noticed that in the the settings
[15:32:42] <pcw_home> Depending on how its done, you would have to change jumpers or components
[15:33:19] <MacGalempsy> i am wondering if the machine is supposed to be run in torque mode. how would I tell?
[15:33:50] <MacGalempsy> the manual shows the way it is wired here in torque mode because there is no tach
[15:34:20] <pcw_home> If it had anything connectd to the Tach input, its probably in velocity mode
[15:34:28] <pcw_home> connected
[15:35:01] <MacGalempsy> would there be any benifit to going to torque mode?
[15:37:04] <pcw_home> torque mode: harder to tune, needs higher servo thread rate, but allows torque monitoring/limiting
[15:38:04] <pcw_home> velocity mode: easier to tune, low thread rate (with tach, high thread rate still needed with simulated tach)
[15:39:12] <pcw_home> torque mode will likel require you to change at least one component on the drive (if it like the drive in manual you linked to)
[15:39:18] <pcw_home> likely
[15:40:28] <MacGalempsy> ok. so simulating the tach signal will be the best because it requires just programming
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[15:42:42] <MacGalempsy> i see a thread here
[15:43:55] <hiroshima5> has anybody used drivers with powerlink connection?
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[15:46:55] <archivist> hmm claims to be open... but is it ? http://www.estun.com/en/product/ac-servo-system-motion-control-system/digital-field-bus/powerlink.html
[15:52:45] <hiroshima5> yes
[15:53:13] <hiroshima5> i've only discovered this project
[15:53:14] <hiroshima5> http://repozytorium.umk.pl/bitstream/handle/item/426/Powerlink_CNC_2012.06.19%20-%20IEEE%20Transactions%20on%20Industrial%20Informatics%20-%20FINAL.pdf
[15:53:31] <hiroshima5> but nothing easy to install
[15:53:52] <hiroshima5> i have 4 baldor microflex e100
[15:54:04] <hiroshima5> and i don't know how use them with emc2
[15:54:23] <archivist> the source appears to be bsd http://sourceforge.net/projects/openpowerlink/
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[15:58:00] <hiroshima5> i'm so confused with it
[15:58:15] <hiroshima5> i've no idea how i can get it working...
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[15:59:41] <hiroshima5> http://www.baldormotion.com/products/servodrives/microflex_e100.asp
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[16:57:34] <ju-emb> hiroshima5: reading the manual of your baldor microflex tells me, that, for complex and flexible movements, you need an additional motioncontroller. In fact that's an additional hardware.
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[16:58:41] <archivist> but linuxcnc is a motion controller
[16:59:42] <ju-emb> I havn't read the CAN part right now, but what I know about CAN enabled servo drives, there is a possibility to let them move with linuxcnc, whenever a aditional (maybe homemade) software is necessary.
[17:00:39] <ju-emb> archivist: sure it is, but baldor talks about baldor motion-controller not opensource motion controller
[17:00:48] <archivist> he is looking at ethernet not can bus
[17:01:25] <archivist> I have not read any of the baldor docs
[17:02:02] <ju-emb> baldor doesn't tell anything about how you control the drive over ethernet, that's all in their software
[17:03:43] <ju-emb> CAN on some Servo drives i know, has PDO's that can be used to make the drive behave like a Step Dir controller
[17:04:32] <ju-emb> I need to have a look at the software to tell what's possible with that drives
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[17:08:28] <hiroshima5> not problem for me if i can use the can port
[17:09:41] <hiroshima5> i only want to get them moving
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[17:25:25] <jdh> we have some parker powerlink drives
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[17:26:36] <ju-emb> that's a joke, the Baldor manual describes the entire Object Hierarchy, but not to what drive functions the objects are mapped
[17:27:20] <ju-emb> so the CAN on that drive is pretty much the same mystery like the Ethernet
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[17:28:09] <jdh> isn't that true of most CAN devices?
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[17:28:23] <jdh> CAN is 'open', but the implementation is not.
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[17:32:42] <archivist> open one up and read the roms :)
[17:34:32] dragenesis is now known as counter
[17:35:17] <ju-emb> archivist: and feed that reading into your crystal sphere ;-o
[17:35:46] <archivist> reverse engineering to interoperate is legal in some countries
[17:36:31] <archivist> can be hard work
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[17:37:41] <ju-emb> but works out only in countries with cheap labour
[17:38:12] <archivist> I used to get payed to do it :)
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[17:38:41] <ju-emb> today it's cheaper developing your own servodrive
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[17:43:33] <IchGuckLive> hi all B)
[17:43:52] <PetefromTn> Hey Ich.....Damn I burnt my Grilled ham and cheese sammich.
[17:44:26] <IchGuckLive> as black as it is it may taste good
[17:44:43] <PetefromTn> meh.....not terrible.
[17:44:49] <ju-emb> PetefromTn: next time use classicladder to control it
[17:45:21] <PetefromTn> ju-emb: Damn good idea man...I just need to figure out how to build a classic Ladder because I need it on my VMC's toolchanger LOL
[17:45:21] <IchGuckLive> new nick ju-emb welcome
[17:45:23] <CaptHindsight> PetefromTn: are you going to eat that sammich in your frunchroom?
[17:45:39] <PetefromTn> whazza Frunchroom?
[17:45:55] <IchGuckLive> french
[17:46:01] <CaptHindsight> front room
[17:46:25] <ju-emb> IchGuckLive: thanks
[17:46:41] <IchGuckLive> where are you from in the world
[17:47:08] <PetefromTn> Yeah how did you know? I just came in from the woodshop and made lunch. Got almost all the furniture grade plywood cut up into parts now I gotta drill all the damn shelf pin holes etc..
[17:47:16] <ju-emb> native germany, but living and working in Peru at current
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[17:47:31] <CaptHindsight> Chikago english also includes sammich for sandwich and funchroom for front/living room
[17:47:34] <IchGuckLive> ich sitz in Kaiserslautern
[17:47:50] <PetefromTn> Never ceases to amaze me the wide array of people we have here from all around the world.
[17:48:01] <PetefromTn> CaptHindsight: Oh really did not know that thanks...
[17:48:08] <hiroshima5> so i understand that it's near impossible or at least so much difficult to use those baldor drives with something different than nextmotion e100 and baldor software?
[17:48:10] <IchGuckLive> PetefromTn: did you get some cabinet images online yesterday
[17:48:14] <PetefromTn> I just always called a sandwich a Sammich to be funny.
[17:48:18] <ju-emb> Du bist ziehmlich aktiv hier
[17:48:49] <PetefromTn> IchGuckLive: LOL I was working on it for ya but then you had to logoff
[17:48:50] <IchGuckLive> ju-emb: ich hab auch 150maschinen im einsatz
[17:49:02] <IchGuckLive> PetefromTn: as always
[17:49:48] <IchGuckLive> ju-emb: what cnc work is done in peru
[17:50:21] <ju-emb> CNC is a really amazing field here
[17:50:32] <ju-emb> retrofit mostly
[17:51:00] <IchGuckLive> hiroshima5: is it a M nN or D drive
[17:51:14] <ju-emb> old machines are imported here from all over the world, but mainly with none working electronics
[17:51:49] <IchGuckLive> ju-emb: then you are right here look into mesa stuff and your mashine will run
[17:52:16] <ju-emb> I have alrady machines running with mesa stuff
[17:52:26] <IchGuckLive> SMILES
[17:52:53] <hiroshima5> the motors are bsm63n-175af
[17:53:07] <IchGuckLive> and the drives Flex ?
[17:53:35] <hiroshima5> and the drive is microflex e100
[17:55:02] <IchGuckLive> hiroshima5: this is 4000 RPM stuff quit hevy and unusiual
[17:55:32] <hiroshima5> i'm building a plasma cutter table for my final master project
[17:55:50] <IchGuckLive> with SERVOS
[17:55:52] <hiroshima5> and the proffesor gave me those motors due to he has them unused
[17:56:06] <IchGuckLive> i got 5 plasmas running on ordanary Steppers at 0,1mm
[17:56:21] <IchGuckLive> at max 5m/min cutt rate to a 4mm plate
[17:56:27] <ju-emb> the prof knows why he gave it to you ;-)
[17:56:44] <IchGuckLive> ju-emb: i agree
[17:57:00] <hiroshima5> i'm not pretty sure he knows it
[17:57:01] <hiroshima5> hehehehe
[17:57:24] <IchGuckLive> hiroshima5: you can get it all for less then one drive cost
[17:57:24] <hiroshima5> he want to spend the minimum money at possible
[17:57:53] <hiroshima5> i would say him than we have to use different motors
[17:58:10] <hiroshima5> but at least i would want to know if we could use them
[17:58:22] <PetefromTn> http://imagebin.org/277026
[17:58:28] <PetefromTn> http://imagebin.org/index.php?mode=image&id=277027
[17:59:14] <PetefromTn> This is the last built in I finished. Nothing fancy but it did have an 11' long solid oak butcherblock countertop. There is Audio visual stuff in the lower cabinets.
[17:59:42] <PetefromTn> If you right click on them and hit view image you get the better picture at least on my screen LOL.
[17:59:44] <ju-emb> PetefromTn: congrats, looks really pretty
[17:59:46] <jdh> Pete: all by hand, or big cnc router?
[17:59:47] <hiroshima5> the fact is those motors were in boxes on shelfs. Totally unused
[17:59:56] <IchGuckLive> hiroshima5: http://s.taobao.com/search?initiative_id=staobaoz_20131115&jc=1&q=M880a&stats_click=search_radio_all%3A1
[18:00:17] <PetefromTn> jdh: No cnc here man I wish, I only have one CNC and that is the CIncinatti Arrow 500 VMC
[18:00:30] <IchGuckLive> this will sent you to the hevens universe CNC door
[18:00:33] <PetefromTn> ju-emb: Thanks man..
[18:00:56] <jdh> Pete: seems like a 4x8' router would do wonders for you.
[18:01:04] <ju-emb> hiroshima5: you can use that motors and drives to make your parking lot boom open and close
[18:01:14] <IchGuckLive> hir the M880a is 580Yen
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[18:02:17] <PetefromTn> jdh Yeah I agree, I actually considered selling the VMC to get a nice CNC flatbed router with vacuum table but now I am actually getting some interest in CNC machine work too so I am doing the woodworking in the shop the old fashioned way on the tablesaw and shaper etc and then do the metalworking in the evening
[18:02:28] <IchGuckLive> and a sandard BOB with a Atom D525 http://s.taobao.com/search?initiative_id=staobaoz_20131115&jc=1&q=MW525&stats_click=search_radio_all%3A1 at 420 Yen
[18:02:59] <PetefromTn> I need to find the high end kitchen pictures I did you guys would love them I think... This was a simple built in with inset doors.
[18:03:05] <jdh> Pete: surely you could just make an extrusion based router table fairly cheap (few thousand $$)
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[18:03:52] <PetefromTn> Oh yeah I could but I also have a room issue. With the VMC in there and the rest of my equipment It would be difficult to work if there was also a flatbed router large enough to process sheet goods.
[18:03:57] <CaptHindsight> http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1638882643/diwire-the-first-desktop-wire-bender I didn't realize that a $3K cnc wire bender would be so popular
[18:04:07] <hiroshima5> thank you ichgucklive jdh ju-emb...
[18:04:21] <IchGuckLive> hiroshima5: Thats why we are here
[18:04:37] <hiroshima5> i will tell him that we cannot use those motors!!
[18:06:53] <ju-emb> sure they have some use, but not for the plasma cutter ;-)
[18:07:40] <IchGuckLive> hiroshima5: http://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=a230r.1.14.27.mgLSJY&id=14601070022
[18:07:54] <IchGuckLive> all in one for 1250Yen
[18:08:16] <ju-emb> IchGuckLive: do you have some of that 7i43 in use?
[18:08:17] <IchGuckLive> But its the lower end of the game
[18:08:28] <IchGuckLive> i use 7176
[18:09:30] <hiroshima5> i've not told you that the table is 2,4x1,2m
[18:09:35] <hiroshima5> steel made
[18:09:51] <IchGuckLive> myne is 2,8 on 1,8m
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[18:10:28] <IchGuckLive> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V6kllGspehQ Thats my channel
[18:10:36] <IchGuckLive> see the cad
[18:11:29] <IchGuckLive> hiroshima5: tiing belt i guess
[18:11:36] <IchGuckLive> timing Belt
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[18:13:06] <hiroshima5> rack
[18:13:15] <IchGuckLive> thats the best
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[18:13:48] <IchGuckLive> i use it 2 with a 30:1 gear for wood 0,01
[18:14:09] <IchGuckLive> and 3:1 for plasma
[18:15:02] <ju-emb> IchGuckLive: what cutting speed do you get on that cutter with the step motors?
[18:15:22] <ju-emb> thin sheet cutting
[18:15:31] <IchGuckLive> with 0,2mm per step 15m/min
[18:15:50] <IchGuckLive> the plasma only makes 5500mm/min max
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[18:16:21] <IchGuckLive> at 8Nm steppers on the gear rack and pinion system
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[18:21:45] <ju-emb> that's the PCB drill I made for our in house use
[18:21:48] <ju-emb> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qRk6YatSRHQ
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[18:24:41] <IchGuckLive> quite professionell
[18:25:43] <ju-emb> and the video it's true speed, not faked
[18:26:21] <ju-emb> 4mm pitch on X Y 2mm on Z
[18:26:53] <IchGuckLive> with steppers ? it goes smooth
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[18:28:02] <ju-emb> yes, all steppers, works on a 5i23 home made Stepper driver
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[18:56:50] <IchGuckLive> FOR all in Europ there is a Homemade CNC 3D printing Studie today on ASTRA sat Dish STATION 3Sat 20:15 MEZ
[18:57:53] <IchGuckLive> How 3D prionting and homemade Routes may change the World of design
[19:01:56] <IchGuckLive> ok im off bye !
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[19:16:33] <gonzo_> had a discussion with the lads at work, as they were raving about how 3d printing was going to change the world.
[19:17:15] <gonzo_> I mentioned a better technique that was still very secret, where you take a block of plastic/metal etc and cut away the bits you don't want
[19:17:34] <gonzo_> they were impressed and went off to google it
[19:19:54] <skunkworks> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M7FIvfx5J10
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[20:08:18] <PetefromTn> That hurt me just watching it LOL.
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[20:13:46] <FinboySlick> They cheated a little... The truck splitting isn't the semi, the semi is going perfectly straight.
[20:14:33] <FinboySlick> From a related video, the original plan was to use two semi.
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[22:09:37] <ctordtor> If I have a 3 axis milling machine, which direction should the table move when I press the left arrow key?
[22:14:14] <mrsun_> left? :P
[22:15:06] <ctordtor> ha, sorry if that's a weird question, I was experimenting and wanted to make sure it's going the correct way
[22:15:27] <mrsun_> well its the most logical
[22:15:48] <mrsun_> X- == left, X+ == right
[22:15:48] <mrsun_> imo
[22:16:46] <ctordtor> I think I confused myself by trying to think about the end mill looking down on the table
[22:17:30] <mrsun_> better to look how your cam software views the "table"
[22:17:53] <mrsun_> where X- is left, X+ is right, Y- is down (towards you) Y+ is up (away from you)
[22:19:08] <ctordtor> makes more sense
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[22:50:25] <_DJ_> gn8
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[23:02:47] <MacGalempsy> well just got off the phone with the guy at copely controls. they made a special order but he thingk the drive is messed up
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[23:06:40] <Tom_itx> uh oh
[23:06:50] <Tom_itx> all of em?
[23:07:55] <MacGalempsy> that is what I was saying
[23:08:23] <MacGalempsy> but he couldnt see anything in the schematic that they did when sending the unit to the client
[23:08:25] <Tom_itx> was it used or new?
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[23:09:01] <MacGalempsy> so I was thinking the missing velocity informaiton had something to do with it
[23:09:12] <MacGalempsy> machine retrofit, used
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[23:12:03] <Tom_itx> make any offers to fix it?
[23:12:51] <MacGalempsy> he mentioned they dont work on those particular units anymore, but there is a replacement unit that will work
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[23:17:58] <JT_Shop> I'd try all three before tossing in the towel
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[23:20:29] <Tom_itx> yeah
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[23:29:08] <JT_Shop> darn it got too dark to split wood
[23:30:01] <Jymmm> JT_Shop: http://www.amazon.com/dp/B004XN5MBW/ref=wl_it_dp_o_pd_S_ttl?_encoding=UTF8&colid=3QOFKF7BT7TE7&coliid=IT5TW9IQ6UKQ2
[23:30:42] <Jymmm> JT_Shop: It's the best overall headlamp I've found in three years of looking/tryning many different kinds.
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[23:31:37] <Jymmm> JT_Shop: Take ONE AA (not 3 or 4 AAA's), IPX8 rated, Good beam/flood, long life per set of battery.
[23:32:20] <Jymmm> JT_Shop: Flip up the diffuser for bicycling, flip down for working under the hood, on the bbq, etc.
[23:33:07] <MacGalempsy> that is a pretty good beam coming off . how many watt is that led?
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[23:33:19] <Jymmm> JT_Shop: I always thought headlamps were dorky, till I was on a ladder installing a gang box and needed three hands.
[23:33:34] <Jymmm> MacGalempsy: 90 Lumen
[23:33:49] <Jymmm> to 3 lumen
[23:34:06] <Jymmm> 50 hours at 3 lumen for one AA battery.
[23:35:26] <Jymmm> It's the ONLY ipx* rated headlamp I've seen that takes AA
[23:35:30] <Jymmm> ipx8
[23:35:36] <Tom_itx> jerks, $34.95 ... free shipping on orders over 35
[23:35:57] <MacGalempsy> lol. just order the battery that goes with it
[23:36:02] <Jymmm> Yeah, blame amazon for that crap.
[23:36:20] <Tom_itx> i bet that triggers no matter the cost of the item
[23:36:48] <MacGalempsy> well, it is on sale, so hopefully the shipping isnt more than the differnce you saved
[23:38:51] <JT_Shop> can you pivot the light up and down, that is somewhat important on a mountain bike
[23:39:06] <Tom_itx> JT_Shop did you finish your splitter?
[23:39:11] <Tom_itx> never did see the end product
[23:39:26] <JT_Shop> not yet, work has been slowing down that project
[23:39:37] <Tom_itx> that's a good thing
[23:42:23] <JT_Shop> I need to fab up the hyd tank and plumb the thing then spill some paint on it
[23:42:39] <Jymmm> Is there a paint/coating I can spray on SS,submerge in salt water and it will stay, but will come off with soap or some other simple method?
[23:43:36] <Jymmm> I want to try this http://www.instructables.com/id/Negative-Laser-Metal-Etching/
[23:43:37] <Tom_itx> wax
[23:43:38] <MacGalempsy> unfortunately, NaSO4 and NaCl in solution are very similar affinities
[23:44:02] <MacGalempsy> yes, wax is a good one
[23:44:09] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: Dont think I can laser wax easily
[23:44:25] <Tom_itx> now you're just adding more criteria to the equasion
[23:44:32] <Tom_itx> you asked for a coating
[23:44:52] * Jymmm hugs Tom_itx
[23:45:28] <Tom_itx> dykem comes off reasonably well
[23:45:34] <Jymmm> Actually, I never tried lasering wax... Maybe I can just vaporize it.
[23:46:08] <Tom_itx> may melt around the cut somewhat
[23:46:20] <Jymmm> Eh, I cna adjust for that.
[23:46:40] <Tom_itx> vaporize it or set your house on fire
[23:47:00] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: Heh, why do you think I have a nitrogen tank for =)
[23:48:26] <Jymmm> just flood the compartment... no more flames!
[23:49:04] <Jymmm> How about something that comes off with heat (other than wax)?
[23:49:31] <Tom_itx> not sure
[23:49:59] <Jymmm> does this stuff go on thin? http://www.grainger.com/product/DYKEM-Blue-Layout-Fluid-2C945
[23:50:10] <Tom_itx> the spray does
[23:50:14] <Tom_itx> didn't click
[23:50:26] <Jymmm> ah, ok
[23:50:33] <Jymmm> Ah, remover... http://www.grainger.com/product/SPRAYON-Layout-Fluid-Remover-1D271?opr=OAPD&pbi=2C945
[23:50:56] <Tom_itx> probably laquer or enamel thinner would do it
[23:51:19] <Tom_itx> maybe even iso
[23:51:20] <Tom_itx> i dunno
[23:51:21] <Jymmm> TOLUENE and ACETONE
[23:51:30] <Jymmm> just read the MSDS
[23:52:05] <Jymmm> Now just to find SS shim stock CHEAP
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[23:54:00] <Tom_itx> what thickness?
[23:54:11] <Jymmm> 0.010"
[23:54:55] <Jymmm> 302/304 Full Hard
[23:55:11] <Tom_itx> more specs....
[23:55:12] <Jymmm> 4" wide would be ideal,
[23:55:13] <Tom_itx> i swear
[23:55:34] <Tom_itx> you could cut that with a paper shear maybe
[23:55:34] <Jymmm> You want the composition? lol
[23:56:06] <Jymmm> It's close
[23:56:46] <Tom_itx> https://www.stainlesssupply.com/order-metal-online/docs/stainless-steel-sheets.php
[23:57:09] <Tom_itx> http://www.sidecuts.com/302304annealed010x24x24stainlesssteelsheet.aspx
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[23:59:11] <Tom_itx> http://www.fastenal.com/web/products/details/7041527;jsessionid=s7lJSFjfHNy2pbmnVc72zCDlRXJh2JR18wLqJ55N8LWkgpVgv4Gn!-1580640017!-1303666258?isPunchout=false
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