#linuxcnc | Logs for 2013-11-06

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[04:20:10] <jesseg> Hey guys - what sort of jog wheel inputs do you like? Anyone use a joystick with exponential response?
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[04:24:36] <Tom_itx> jesseg, i use an MPG
[04:25:39] <jesseg> Hmm, what is MPG? probably stands for something and google's not telling me exactly what :()
[04:25:50] <Tom_itx> http://www.kelinginc.net/BreakoutBoards.html
[04:25:55] <Tom_itx> manual pulse generator
[04:25:58] <jesseg> thanks
[04:26:01] <Tom_itx> (encoder)
[04:26:38] <jesseg> ohhhh so it's not like a USB user input peripheral but another encoder connected to a spare input on the mesa or whatever FPGA?
[04:26:57] <Tom_itx> i got the wheel and made my own enclosure etc
[04:27:05] <Tom_itx> yes
[04:27:08] <jesseg> oh OK
[04:27:59] <Tom_itx> http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/cnc/pendant8.jpg
[04:28:06] <Tom_itx> before it was done
[04:28:16] <jesseg> I'm interested in a thumb-joystick type input that controls rate. I've used them for controlling robots (xbox controller) and the xy table on a video microscope and they can be very very intuitive to use
[04:28:26] <jesseg> oh that's very nice
[04:28:50] <Tom_itx> some have used joysticks as well
[04:29:06] <Tom_itx> i'm not familiar with the interface for them
[04:29:18] <jesseg> ahh, OK.
[04:29:37] <Tom_itx> i like the feel of the encoder though
[04:29:42] <Tom_itx> 100 clicks per rev
[04:29:43] <jesseg> yeah me too
[04:30:02] <jesseg> but I don't like having to change between axes to get where I wanna go haha
[04:30:20] <jesseg> multiple encoders could solve that though - sort of etcha scetch
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[04:31:11] <Tom_itx> i'm rather used to it since that's how most large machines work
[04:31:11] <Tom_itx> pointless to have more than one
[04:31:14] <Tom_itx> i use a rotary switch for the axis
[04:31:18] <Tom_itx> as well as the resolution
[04:31:30] <jesseg> yeah I noticed that in the picture. It looks really nice.
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[04:32:15] <jesseg> I didn't spend enough time on the big machines to get used to it, and then I've spent too much time using my own creations where I'm spoiled and very used to being able to navigate 3D space effortlessly as if I was there :P
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[04:34:45] <RyanS> Does this seem somewhat odd or unnecessary for a drill press: http://www.machineryhouse.com.au/V142 ?
[04:35:27] <jesseg> I dunno.. If you do a lot of careful drilling a good vice sure can be nice
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[04:40:32] <RyanS> I'm thinking just those low profile drill press vice with prismatic jaws are more handy.. That seems more like a milling vice
[04:41:03] <jesseg> yeah probably.
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[06:04:43] <MacGalempsy> evening
[06:05:13] <MacGalempsy> anyone know how to trouble shoot cr 6&7 on the mesa 7i77?
[06:05:27] <MacGalempsy> onr id +16V monitor and the other is -12V monitor
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[07:06:42] <MacGalempsy> any mesa card guys around that can help me out?
[07:11:18] <Jymmm> Dont ask to ask, just ask. If someone can help they will.
[07:14:26] <MacGalempsy> still having issues getting the cr6 and cr7 leds to come one
[07:14:44] <MacGalempsy> looked throught he pci card and the jumpers seem to be set right
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[07:52:05] <_DJ_> moin
[07:52:28] <MacGalempsy> hello dj
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[07:52:54] <MacGalempsy> welll JymmmI one problem I had was the smart serial wire was connected wrong
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[08:26:57] <MacGalempsy> want to take the pins list and turn it to XML for pnc configurator. any help?
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[08:30:25] <_DJ_> hmm, off again, cya läters
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[08:47:37] <MacGalempsy> laters
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[09:16:59] <Loetmichel> mornin'
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[09:37:03] <MacGalempsy> morning Loetmichel
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[11:08:11] <jthornton> MacGalempsy, you make any headway?
[11:08:34] <MacGalempsy> yes. got the terminal to show the pins of the 7i77 and 7i84
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[11:08:45] <jthornton> great
[11:08:50] <MacGalempsy> but I have been trying to figure out how to write that xml file...
[11:09:36] <jthornton> it would be easier to just write the hal file
[11:09:59] <MacGalempsy> im totally at ground zero on this, so any coaching is super appreciated
[11:11:00] <jthornton> you can use pncconf to configure everything but the 7i84 then it is just cut and paste to add the 7i84 pins
[11:11:31] <MacGalempsy> ok. so just start pncconfig and run 5i25 and 1 7i77
[11:11:49] <jthornton> aye
[11:11:52] <MacGalempsy> fill in the blanks with my lists of wires to pins, then come back for more help?
[11:12:10] <jthornton> tup
[11:12:13] <jthornton> yup
[11:12:26] <MacGalempsy> but first I need to do my 6am reports, then its back into the garage for another round
[11:12:55] <MacGalempsy> one thing I was not able to get all the lights on the 7i77 to come on.
[11:13:03] <MacGalempsy> cr6 and cr7 wont light up
[11:13:21] <MacGalempsy> maybe after its configured?
[11:13:40] <jthornton> what is cr6 and cr7?
[11:13:50] <MacGalempsy> +16V and -12V
[11:13:58] <MacGalempsy> led
[11:14:36] <jthornton> what is the function of cr6 and cr7? I don't have my manual handy
[11:15:13] <MacGalempsy> +16V monitor and -12v monitor, respectively
[11:15:40] <jthornton> I didn't even know that was there on the 77
[11:16:07] <MacGalempsy> oh. the manual sais all 6 status lights shoud lcome on
[11:16:33] <jthornton> might have to wait for PCW to wake up and ask him
[11:16:54] <archivist> or check voltages
[11:16:56] <MacGalempsy> ok. im going to get back at it, then come back in a little bit.
[11:17:15] <MacGalempsy> its got 24v running to fieldpower
[11:21:16] <p0g0_> Hi, I am looking for a zero-residue cutting fluid, and this channel seems a plausible place to ask.
[11:21:26] <p0g0_> Decades back, TapMagic was a cinnamonaldehyde based zero residue cutting fluid with great cutting properties, but it appears to have been reformulated and I am not sure the current product evaporates without residue.
[11:21:43] <p0g0_> Can anyone point me to a commercial zero residue cutting fluid?
[11:23:05] <archivist> I dont remember hearing of one, I expect to clean after
[11:26:38] <p0g0_> archivist: I used TapMagic a lot decades back, and it was both the best cutting fluid I'd ever seen, and had a very high vapor pressure, dried fast, and left no residue. I expect it was a carcinogen or such, as I cannot find anything like it.
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[11:29:57] <archivist> I think zero residue would be a marketing term :)
[11:34:01] <p0g0_> archivist: TapMagic sold itself on its virtues, the stuff worked Very Well. I don't think most folks ever cared that it didn't leave any oils or residue. I wouldn't either, but I am trying a Hail Mary on a machine, rather than doing the man month + $10k or so it would take to tear it down and rebuild it, so I need a 'toothy' fluid that dries relatively quickly and completely.
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[11:49:39] <_DJ_> re
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[12:35:41] <MacGalempsy> ok on my way to the garage!
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[12:41:57] <jthornton> run for your life!
[12:44:07] <Tom_itx> mmm 38f this AM
[12:46:21] <PetefromTn> Macgalempsy Good luck man...
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[12:54:48] <MacGalempsy> back
[12:59:24] <jthornton> I don't see any smoke
[13:00:11] <archivist> up wind ?
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[13:00:29] <Jymmm> archivist++
[13:01:27] <MacGalempsy> 'heh good
[13:01:43] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: Got Heater?
[13:01:57] <Tom_itx> actually no
[13:01:58] <MacGalempsy> trying to determine which tab goes to which terminal block
[13:02:05] <Tom_itx> gotta take the blower motor in
[13:02:21] <Tom_itx> run cap i think
[13:02:24] <MacGalempsy> in smart serial there is tsb 0 and tab1 they look the same
[13:03:06] <PetefromTn> Is it cold there in texas today?
[13:03:28] <MacGalempsy> it is in oklahoma city
[13:03:59] <Jymmm> Hmmm, I didn't know that the NWS broadcasted amber alerts... http://forecast.weather.gov/showsigwx.php?warnzone=CAZ513&warncounty=CAC085&firewxzone=CAZ513&local_place1=&product1=Child+Abduction+Emergency
[13:04:03] <PetefromTn> Oh yeah what temp?
[13:04:55] <jthornton> MacGalempsy, which board are you talking about?
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[13:06:30] <MacGalempsy> so there is a 5i325, 7i77 and 7i84
[13:06:56] <MacGalempsy> when running the 5i25+7i77x1 firmware, 5 tabs pull up
[13:07:31] <MacGalempsy> under smart serial 0, 2 tabs come up
[13:07:43] <jthornton> oh your talking about pncconf
[13:08:00] <MacGalempsy> yes
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[13:08:26] <jthornton> I assumed you were talking about a header on the board for some reason
[13:08:26] <MacGalempsy> i could do a screen share in google hangout if thst may help
[13:08:39] <jthornton> I'm loading pncconf now
[13:09:58] <jthornton> I see 3 sub tabs under Smart Serial 0 TB6, TB5 and TB4
[13:10:53] <jthornton> let me back up, what do you have selected on the configuration tab?
[13:10:53] <MacGalempsy> i only have 2 under smart card 0 and 1 under smart card1
[13:11:05] <MacGalempsy> card = serial
[13:11:27] <MacGalempsy> let me back all the way out and start over
[13:11:30] <jthornton> ops sorry I had 7i76
[13:12:22] <jthornton> do uncheck the sanity check, dunno why it is checked by default
[13:12:53] <MacGalempsy> http://tinyurl.com/o5rk3w9
[13:13:07] <MacGalempsy> that is the hangout address where its on the screen
[13:13:35] <jthornton> want's me to sign in...
[13:14:06] <MacGalempsy> yeah its the only one I have
[13:14:09] <jthornton> so what's the question about TB8 or TB7?
[13:14:22] <MacGalempsy> which tab is it?
[13:14:36] <MacGalempsy> they are not labeled
[13:17:17] <jthornton> normally we use http://imagebin.org/ for screen shots
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[13:19:07] <Jymmm> Yeah, that whole g+ login is crap
[13:19:20] <jthornton> I don't understand what "it" is
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[13:23:39] <MacGalempsy> sorry trying to get my linux box figured out
[13:23:51] <MacGalempsy> this is my win machine
[13:24:43] <MacGalempsy> its almost as though it is reading pins on the 7i84
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[13:25:35] <jthornton> Did you go through the help screens in pncconf?
[13:25:58] <MacGalempsy> working on that right now
[13:26:01] <jthornton> to be honest I can't figure out how to create a servo config on pncconf
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[13:27:52] <MacGalempsy> how many smart serial ports and channels?
[13:27:59] <MacGalempsy> default is 1/3
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[13:49:00] <jthornton> you might have to get guidance for pncconf from Chris on the forum... I'm not sure how to set those options
[13:49:43] <jthornton> MacGalempsy, have you seen this page? http://www.gnipsel.com/linuxcnc/configs/7i77.html
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[13:52:00] <PetefromTn> Hey Mr. Asshole!! Mornin'
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[14:01:14] <jdh> Hi.
[14:06:14] <jdh> oh, you weren't talking to me.
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[14:11:43] * jthornton still thinks pncconf is far too complicated to configure a 5i25
[14:11:55] <PetefromTn> LOL no Jymm declared himself that previously...
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[14:17:21] <archivist> hmm is the description right, odd looking shaping head, described as hobbing fleabay 281201990398
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[14:19:20] <skunkworks> shaper.. gives stoke ammounts.. I thin in the first picture the actual in out arm is touching the floor
[14:19:57] <archivist> I think that too, not a hobbing thing at all
[14:20:32] <skunkworks> well - Hobbing and it could make strait gears... ;)
[14:21:09] <skunkworks> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1YFsSSG5Mco
[14:21:09] <skunkworks> never saw one before
[14:21:17] <skunkworks> clapper box and everything
[14:24:23] <archivist> that one is quiet, done very little work
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[14:35:57] <skunkworks> the scraping looks nice
[14:37:20] <skunkworks> archivist, the info you found on the temp comp accupins - we figure that was probably implimented in the original control
[14:37:40] <skunkworks> (it offset Z depending on spindle temp)
[14:40:11] <archivist> I got the original patent too now
[14:41:05] <archivist> was wondering if there was enough info to make a rotary one
[14:41:34] <skunkworks> Did you see that at the fest we kinda got the head working?
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[14:42:29] <archivist> I remember seeing that yes, but I was not there :(
[14:42:43] <skunkworks> but you where virtually....
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[14:43:10] <skunkworks> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DicmGLHbwEo&list=UUHk52YjGT8HryRYmJKSl-lg
[14:43:35] <skunkworks> heh - that wasn't it
[14:44:05] <skunkworks> http://youtu.be/im79QbffjCQ
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[14:46:27] <skunkworks> a little filtering
[14:46:27] <skunkworks> http://youtu.be/x6hzesMM7EM
[14:46:47] <skunkworks> I remember chris say 'I think it is working!'
[14:50:48] <archivist> with all that distortion I cant see where the accuracy comes from yet
[14:54:28] <archivist> I used to work with a torque meter system that used gears and magnetic pickups with a zero crossing detectors and a digital phase meter
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[15:00:58] <pingufan> Hello, I am using a "Gravoghraph VX" as CNC mill. I converted it by replacing the whole drivers and use it now with LinuxCNC.
[15:02:08] <skunkworks> cool
[15:02:16] <pingufan> What I repeatedly notice is: The manual rpm control of the spindle motor is lousy. This is a better stitching machine motor (I estimate ~120 Watts at 230V AC).
[15:03:14] <pingufan> My idea is to replace the poor electronic for speed control by a smarter one, measuring the rpm of the spindle for feedback.
[15:03:27] <pingufan> Is somebody here using something like that?
[15:03:56] <jdh> what's the real question?
[15:04:23] <pingufan> Phase cutted rpm control of a spindle
[15:05:11] <cradek> what kind of motor is it?
[15:05:27] <archivist> series ac/dc methinks
[15:06:38] <pingufan> brush motor with rotor and stator in series, I guess.
[15:08:19] <pingufan> I am looking for an easy to build schematics. How can LinuxCNC set a spindle speed (that would be a nice option).
[15:08:31] <cradek> the KBIC are really good, they're what sherline uses on their spindles: http://www.kbelectronics.com/Variable_Speed_DC_Drives.html
[15:08:54] <pingufan> approximate price?
[15:09:13] <cradek> I don't know, stfw
[15:09:42] <pingufan> And the speed is set by an analog voltage?
[15:10:07] <cradek> I think they have an analog-input addon
[15:10:22] <cradek> but I put an opto in one of mine, in place of the speed control pot
[15:10:42] <cradek> looks like they are $20-$90 on ebay
[15:10:49] <pingufan> How are they normally controlled then? digitally? By serial communication? ... ?
[15:11:07] <cradek> a pot
[15:12:06] <pingufan> Pot is not good to simulate. But I will carefully read what they offer.
[15:12:15] <cradek> http://timeguy.com/cradek-files/cnc/lathe/DSCN6292.JPG
[15:12:55] <cradek> here you can see my genius mechanical and electrical engineering skills
[15:13:03] <archivist> 3d engineering
[15:13:14] <cradek> it actually works really well
[15:13:33] <pingufan> And this is such one?
[15:13:44] <archivist> I need to do that to the starturn driver too
[15:13:48] <cradek> iirc it's pretty linear but there's an offset, very easy to deal with in hal
[15:14:37] <pingufan> Is this a regulator with feedback from the spindle?
[15:14:40] <cradek> yes I'm pretty sure that's a KBIC
[15:16:41] <cradek> it has very good speed regulation but I'm not sure what kind of feedback it uses
[15:17:07] <cradek> the manual says something about adjusting it with IR trimpot, so the speed under load is the same as the speed unloaded
[15:17:24] <pingufan> How does linuxcnc set the wanted speed?
[15:18:07] <cradek> this particular one uses a pwm output of a pluto
[15:18:55] <cradek> you should look at the KBIC manual, especially about SI-5 and KBET-240D
[15:19:19] <cradek> mine might have the tach feedback...?
[15:19:23] <pingufan> Doesn't that cause a lot of CPU load? My mill is controlled by a 1-core 1500 MHz VIA C7 CPU !
[15:20:58] <PetefromTn> Well just received back my Acer laptop I sent out for repair a local Computer repair guy. Apparently the Mother Board is bad and it is not worth fixing. That sucks because I really liked that computer.
[15:20:59] <pingufan> My first idea was to use a microcontroller with hardware PWM, measuring the rpm with a reflective sensor, and receiving the speed by serial communication from LinuxCNC.
[15:21:20] <PetefromTn> Cost me $39.00 to find that out too LOL.
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[15:21:39] <pingufan> PetefromTn: Buy an ASUS next time.
[15:21:49] <PetefromTn> You like them huh..
[15:22:08] <kengu> 39 is not bad
[15:22:26] <PetefromTn> I bought this one awhile back and have actually gotten good service from it and I liked the big 17.3" screen..
[15:22:45] <PetefromTn> Yeah I agree not terrible really for taking that bastard apart and investigating.
[15:23:11] <PetefromTn> I think I will look for a nice Asus maybe another with the 17.3" screen...
[15:23:23] <cradek> making spindle motor drives is something I happily leave to the experts
[15:26:35] <pingufan> Therefore I ask here first. ;)
[15:27:14] <jdh> controlling them can be simple enough though.
[15:27:40] <jdh> I have a KBIC clone on my mill that I control with a PWM->Analog converter
[15:28:17] <pingufan> Cn you send me details of it?
[15:29:20] <jdh> pingufan: http://www.cnc4pc.com/Store/osc/product_info.php?cPath=25&products_id=303
[15:29:38] <jdh> with a spindle encoder, you can close the loop in linuxcnc
[15:30:17] <pingufan> We are talking here of 10000+ rpm !
[15:30:32] <pingufan> I use tools with 1-3 mm diameter
[15:30:47] <jdh> yeah, that might be a bit much.
[15:30:53] <pingufan> :D
[15:31:35] <pingufan> Possibly a good mixture of ready regulator and a PIC with PWM output (to generate 0-5V
[15:40:35] <pingufan> Currently fighting with milling holes into ALU, where the hole is 3.2mm and the tool os 3mm. Awful, it does not cut good enough in the center.
[15:41:21] <archivist> use the right type of cutter
[15:42:14] <archivist> slot drill/centre cutting endmill
[15:45:08] <CaptHindsight> pingufan: which Epia or chipset is that board? We tried using Via boards 4+ years ago and always had spurious latency issues
[15:50:38] <cradek> use a split point drill bit
[15:57:53] <pingufan> CaptHindsight: I have also this latency error message. I would like to be able to disable it, as it has no noticable effect on working. This is not the EPIA 8this was with C7 1000 MHz only), but the next model IIRC M 10000 or something like that.
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[15:59:01] <pingufan> cradek: What is a split point drill bit? I currently use a 3mm 1-blade milling tool - shouldn't that keep the bottom free?
[16:03:34] <pingufan> cradek: I move down in a helix, btw.
[16:07:48] <pingufan> jdh: what did this board cost? Approximately?
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[16:08:44] <jdh> pingu: $45ish I think. Should be on the link
[16:09:04] <jdh> you could do it with a resistor/cap
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[16:10:34] <pingufan> Can LinuxCNC output DATA on the parallel port by simulating SPI? One clock line, one data line. This way I could transmit the wanted speed into a PIC controller, which (in turn) controls this card.
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[16:11:29] <pingufan> I am afraid that generating PWM in addition can cause to high CPU load. Or should this be no problem?
[16:12:14] <jdh> dunno.
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[16:12:29] <jdh> Get some Mesa
[16:12:44] <jdh> it can handle the PWM and the encoder
[16:14:41] <archivist> there is no reason to expect pwm to increase cpu much if at all
[16:15:04] <pingufan> archivist: Even on weak CPU ?
[16:15:21] <archivist> yours is not "weak"
[16:19:31] <kwallace> Using a real analog tach for feedback would be interesting, although an encoder would still be needed for tapping, but could be a lower count variety.
[16:20:00] <pcw_home> PWM generation will not put any noticeable load on the CPU (the stepgen probably puts a lot more)
[16:20:02] <pcw_home> but in ant case not enough to notice when your processor can do a 1000 operations per uSec
[16:20:15] <pcw_home> s/ant/any/
[16:20:24] <pingufan> Ok, happy to hear that. :) So I can generate a PWM signal (as my spindle has only one direction this simplifies things again).
[16:21:19] <pingufan> I still think about using a reflective sensor on the spindle and a microcontroller for measuring and controlling the speed.
[16:22:30] <pingufan> And then I (still) have the option of using PWM or something else (serial I/O) to tell the rpm to the PIC.
[16:23:06] <kwallace> That just adds complexity when it's not needed.
[16:24:12] <archivist> you dont need a pic chip at all
[16:24:45] <kwallace> Just in case, here is my KBIC two bits worth: http://www.wallacecompany.com/machine_shop/kbic/
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[16:30:30] <pingufan> And how do I measure the rpm of the spindle? It surely is faster than 10000 rpm, this is lots of pulses!
[16:32:28] <kwallace> The PWM just approximates an analog voltage so its frequency is not really important.
[16:32:58] <archivist> one pulse per rev =10000/60 per sec, 167 not too many at all
[16:33:20] <kwallace> It needs to be fast enough to produce a smooth enough signal.
[16:35:01] <kwallace> I have used software PWM at 10 or 15 kHz for VFD control. It works but is not especially pretty.
[16:35:35] <pingufan> You mean that LinuxCNC can directly measure the current RPM (digital input) and adapt its PWM output to get a constant spindle speed?
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[16:36:02] <jdh> sure
[16:36:59] <pingufan> Whow. But i have to invent that by myself, or does LinuxCNC already have such a regulating circuit ?
[16:37:42] <kwallace> Oops, I made a mistake, I was talking about speed output, not input.
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[16:38:14] <Quintox> hello
[16:38:32] <kwallace> A software encoder would be too slow or not have enough resolution.
[16:38:41] <pingufan> As long as LinuxCNC can generate a 0-5 V signal, I can use it to set with it an external regulator.
[16:39:01] <pingufan> 0-5 V = wanted RPM
[16:39:19] <Quintox> Do i need a reference switch in linuxcnc, or can i use it without a reference switch??
[16:39:40] <archivist> pingufan, http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/examples/spindle.html
[16:39:53] <pingufan> Quintox: You don't need one, but it simplifies life.
[16:40:49] <Quintox> yes but for the beginning i can use without? so i can buy it later when the cnc works right?
[16:41:37] <Meduza> E
[16:41:38] <Meduza> E
[16:41:38] <Meduza> E
[16:41:40] <pingufan> Sure. But if you buy them right now, and connect them in series, you are done with a few dollars.
[16:42:42] <Quintox> hm okay thanks i think about it
[16:43:11] <Quintox> i only use the crappy management the TB6560
[16:43:12] <pingufan> This is only three little micro switches and a piece of wire + resitor. Nothing more.
[16:43:36] <Quintox> okay thank you
[16:44:21] <Quintox> my project is low cost, i use wood to build the cnc so its just für training and for creat so beautiful things
[16:44:47] <pingufan> archivist: This also works with my LinuxCNC? 2.5.x on Hardy (Ubuntu 10 does not like my hardware.)
[16:45:09] <archivist> any version
[16:45:47] <pingufan> I will think about that. Thank you for your advice and help.
[16:46:31] <kwallace> If we are talking about a signal to send speed to a KBIC a simple opto-isolator with a resistor with PWM can work well. The CNC4PC unit works well too. An important point with the KBIC is that the input floats at around 50VAC so an isolator is needed.
[16:48:01] <archivist> in EU motor circuits can be at 240v,
[16:48:24] <pingufan> Sure :)
[16:49:10] <jdh> I thought it floated more around whatever line voltage was
[16:50:01] <pingufan> What confuses me, is: This cnc4pc thing shows: Inputs a PWM and outputs an analog 0-10VDC. So this is NOT driving my spindle motor directly?
[16:50:36] <archivist> yes that expects a speed controller after it
[16:50:54] <jdh> it is just a PWM->analog with a little extra.
[16:50:55] <roh> 0-10V is control voltage
[16:51:13] <jdh> I replaced my speed control pot with the output from the card
[16:51:13] <pingufan> This one is what I am looking for. Generating 0-10 V is not really a chellenge. ;)
[16:52:42] <pingufan> I am actually thinking about a low cost power driver with integrated feedback to keep the rpm constantly at the desired speed.
[16:52:52] <Quintox> can someone recommend me a cheap management for a low cost CNC?
[16:53:16] <pingufan> Quintox: What do you mean with "management"?
[16:53:45] <kwallace> The opto-isolator and the CNC4PC unit should act like a potentiometer, which provides a ratio between the input signal supply or + and the signal common or -. This voltage can vary for different controllers.
[16:54:12] <Quintox> sorry my english isn
[16:54:14] <archivist> Quintox, an old pc
[16:54:20] <Quintox> isn'T perfect i mean the controller
[16:54:22] <archivist> linuxcnc
[16:55:03] <archivist> motor drivers are the bit you need to buy or build
[16:55:06] <Quintox> and the driver for the stepper motor
[16:55:26] <Quintox> yes and i need a good recommend for a cheap driver
[16:55:59] <pingufan> Quintox: If you mean the drivers for steppers, go to www.geckodrive.com and choose the one you like. I tried first to build my own drivers and gave up after burning the third set of LMxxx chips. I bought then gecko drives and everything works now like a charm.
[16:56:12] <archivist> define good and cheap, often you cannot have both
[16:56:14] <Quintox> because i often heard that the TB6560 isn't really good
[16:56:45] <Quintox> hmm it must not be the best but it have to work
[16:57:29] <pingufan> This is what I use. (One for every axis). www.geckodrive.com/geckodrive-step-motor-drives/g251x.html
[16:57:30] <archivist> TB6560 seem easy to kill, some smaller systems can get away with them
[16:58:35] <archivist> these are the ones I use http://www.arceurotrade.co.uk/Catalogue/Stepper-Motors
[16:58:45] <Quintox> or should i use the old but gold LM298?
[16:59:16] <archivist> I have L298 on my lathe
[16:59:17] <pingufan> If you want to burn your fingers... What do you want to do with 1.5 Amperes?
[16:59:20] <Quintox> its only for a small project not for a professional CNC
[17:00:05] <pingufan> L298 is crap. Whenever I tried to get close to the (theoretical) 2 Amps, they started oscillating and burned out immediately.
[17:00:13] <Quintox> pingu yours are very expensive for me
[17:00:27] <Quintox> hm okay
[17:00:43] <pingufan> You save on the wrong place. Trust me.
[17:00:49] <archivist> my L298 is actually in an old digiplan drive, just works
[17:01:12] <pingufan> At how many amps? 1? 1.5 ?
[17:01:49] <archivist> no idea, never measured them, came with the lathe as original
[17:02:39] <jdh> archivist: parker PK2 digiplan?
[17:02:41] <Quintox> i have to save at all points because i have not much money for this project and so i try to use so litte money how its possible
[17:02:48] <pingufan> As I said, Whenever I tried to get above 1.5-1.6 Amps, the circuit started oscillating and I got a little cloud of smoke.
[17:03:13] <archivist> jdh yes or an earlier model SD something
[17:03:58] <jdh> I rescued a few of those. They have a continuous mode which is sometimes useful
[17:04:08] <pingufan> Quintox: you can possibly find a cheaper drive at Gecko. Allow me a question: How much do you plan to invest?
[17:04:32] <archivist> old appnote I have here would say SD2
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[17:05:31] <Quintox> hm so litte how its possible max 80€ for the driver
[17:05:57] <pingufan> Quintox: For all three axes?
[17:06:24] <kwallace> The L298 are handy for experimenting were one doesn't mind blowing out a chip or two. I got mine to work to the limit by using a current limit resistor on the low side FETS to ground and fast freewheel diodes which are important.
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[17:07:09] <Quintox> pingu: yes the motor i already have
[17:07:40] <pingufan> kwallace: I used the official layout of L297/L298 and this was a nightmare.
[17:08:50] <Quintox> pingufan: first i thought about this http://www.ebay.de/itm/TB6560-3-Achsen-Schrittmotor-Steuerung-0-8-3-5A-Digital-/171138868044?pt=Motoren_Getriebe&hash=item27d8abe34c because its cheap
[17:09:06] <Quintox> but many people say that you can have problem with that dricer
[17:09:09] <Quintox> driver
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[17:14:18] <Quintox> pingu: do you have experience with the TB6560?
[17:15:52] <kwallace> Quintox: What are the specs for the motors you have?
[17:15:52] <pingufan> No experience. But calculate a little bit. This is 28 Euro + shipment, and this is really a CHEAP driver. Why do other drivers cost much more? If you shoot it twice, you could already have got one better driver for that money.
[17:17:01] <Quintox> thats right, but your driver is 89 x 3 and thats to much, so do you have a cheaper solution? Im from germany
[17:18:17] <Quintox> kwallace: what do you mean with specs?
[17:18:58] <pingufan> Try contacting them, they surely can help you.
[17:19:20] <pingufan> Oh, it is late, I have to leave.
[17:19:30] <pingufan> Thanks and good bye.
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[17:20:12] <kwallace> What size, the coil resistance any other numbers there might be on the label.
[17:21:42] <Quintox> they are not here at the moment. They are on the way to me, and ive lost the correct name of the motor so i can look i a few days..
[17:22:23] <kwallace> Do you have a maker and model number?
[17:22:48] <Quintox> only nema 23... thats the problem..
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[17:25:01] <jdh> you should be able to get cheaper Leadshine drives there
[17:27:02] <kwallace> I haven't done much with that size of motor, but I got these drivers for mine which seem to match well: http://motion.schneider-electric.com/products/im483.html
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[17:29:23] <Quintox> how much is it there is no price
[17:32:54] <kwallace> I got mine from eBay for around $35US each, but I just happened on a really good buy-it-now ad.
[17:34:34] <kwallace> The thing is that a cheap driver won't hack it for a NEMA23 motor, but shopping around can save a lot.
[17:35:30] <Quintox> thats right thank you, and why not the old but easy L298?
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[17:39:18] <kwallace> The L298 can turn your motors but not much more. I use the L298 for motors from old inkjet printers which are smaller.
[17:41:33] <Quintox> is it enough for my project? Or do i need stronger drivers?
[17:42:26] <kwallace> What is your project?
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[17:45:05] <kwallace> If you want to get into the nuts and bolts of electronics you might just use higher current h-bridges, but you would probably need to make them yourself.
[17:45:51] <jdh> vs. just buying a drive and having it work instantly
[17:45:51] <kwallace> My mill uses h-bridges: http://www.wallacecompany.com/machine_shop/Shizuoka/ see the schematic half way down.
[17:47:43] <kwallace> Cost is the bugger here. I got my NEMA23 drivers for $35 each but I traded luck, extra research, knowledge and time to get the good price.
[17:51:55] <archivist> leadshine drives look similar to http://www.arceurotrade.co.uk/Catalogue/Stepper-Motors/Stepper-Drivers
[17:52:47] <Quintox> hm thanks im away now for a time
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[18:00:21] <IchGuckLive> hi all B)
[18:03:11] <_DJ_> huhu
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[18:15:10] <IchGuckLive> its windy outside
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[18:18:44] <CaptHindsight> I wonder how many drives by Leadshine you need to buy to get your own label on them or if they just sell them with a blank area to print your own label?
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[18:19:40] <archivist> I wonder how many copies there are too
[18:23:32] <IchGuckLive> CaptHindsight: its laser marked
[18:24:24] <jthornton> Yea! I was able to insert a glade file into another
[18:24:29] <archivist> they paint with laser now?
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[19:15:59] <IchGuckLive> in off BYE
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[19:16:20] <ReadError> he makes me proud every time i see that!
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[19:22:10] <_DJ_> lol
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[20:14:41] <andypugh> Does this work?
[20:14:43] <andypugh> http://youtu.be/VrvwlPxRhKU
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[20:16:41] <jdh> almost like a harmonic drive?
[20:17:09] <andypugh> But easier to make :-)
[20:17:50] <andypugh> (It is HD if you select that)
[20:19:35] <andypugh> I am wishing I had set up the needle roller bearings to move too...
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[20:23:58] <Jymmm> Yet another reason to boycott Goodwill Industries... http://news.yahoo.com/video/donors-personal-information-mistakenly-available-232036529.html
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[20:26:41] <PetefromTn> Is that NOT a harmonic drive? Looks like it works in a similar fashion.
[20:28:58] <andypugh> No flexible parts.
[20:29:15] <mrsun> hmm, 9000mm/min i could move the machine but when reversning direction it stalls :P
[20:29:23] <mrsun> that problem persists down to about 4000mm/min :/
[20:29:37] <andypugh> And should be fairly easy to make if you have a good rotary table... Hmm]
[20:29:49] <jdh> so, if you had one, you coudl make one.
[20:30:00] <andypugh> Yeah
[20:30:05] <PetefromTn> LOL exactly..
[20:30:39] <mrsun> https://fbcdn-sphotos-c-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/945477_10151969525943648_920171377_n.jpg started fitting the cable drag chains =) yeah! =)
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[20:36:34] <skunkworks> the taperd wedgies are to preload?
[20:40:22] <andypugh> Just to take out the slop. Old-school machine-tool style.
[20:41:27] <andypugh> mrsun_: Mechmate?
[20:41:28] <skunkworks> so... when are you going to start making one?
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[20:41:47] <andypugh> When days start contianing 48 hours, maybe.
[20:41:52] <skunkworks> heh
[20:42:05] <skunkworks> they do if you take them by 2
[20:42:12] <mrsun_> andypugh, my own building but using the mechmate rail system
[20:42:18] <mrsun_> gonna restart X, brb
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[20:43:29] <JT_Shop> pretty neat andypugh
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[20:48:05] <PetefromTn> Damn Freecad Crashed on me while I was drawing something and I had forgotten to save a good bit of it....CRAP.
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[20:50:34] <JT_Shop> it doesn't have an autosave I'm guessing
[20:50:50] <PetefromTn> Dunno it might but never looked for it.
[20:52:22] <jmasseo> I tried to run FreeCAD the other day and it crashed almost immediately =(
[20:53:26] <PetefromTn> Actually just looked at preferences and there is a utility for auto save there but it is greyed out. dunno if that means it is not working yet or you need to do something to activate it.
[20:54:16] <PetefromTn> Yeah it crashes sometimes. It is still in beta...they are actively working on it tho and there is a lot of cool stuff coming for it they are working on which is the only reason I am still using it.
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[20:54:34] <false> goodevening
[20:54:57] <KimK> PetefromTn: jmasseo: What versions were you running? Default? (Which OS?) Self-compiled? Daily-PPA? Something else?
[20:55:39] <KimK> false: good evening back, still afternoon here.
[20:55:55] <false> Hehe, lucky you
[20:56:01] <PetefromTn> I am NO software guru so just downloaded the whole program from sourceforge I think.... Running Windows 7 and freecad version .13
[20:56:18] <PetefromTn> good evening false..
[20:56:36] <KimK> PetefromTn: OK, thanks.
[20:56:43] <kengu> it crashes all the time (:
[20:57:26] <false> kengu: software problems?
[20:57:42] <PetefromTn> If you use a certain progression when you build for me anyways it does not crash all that much. It sure is frustrating when it does tho. I think the program has a LOT of potential but it has a ways to go before they get it fixed.
[20:58:32] <PetefromTn> Worst part is most of the developers all want to work on the new fancy stuff like the Cam package and not the boring stuff like fixing the basic bugs in the original program. At least that is the word I get from the IRC chat...
[20:58:45] <KimK> Once in awhile mine crashes (several times a year, maybe?), but generally it's pretty good. (Ubuntu 12.04, daily PPA, 0.14+)
[20:59:23] <false> PetefromTn: that's quite common, they like new shinny stuff :P
[20:59:40] <PetefromTn> Don't we all LOL
[20:59:50] <kengu> false: the freecad
[20:59:58] <false> speaking of: http://tinypic.com/r/w9uzb5/5 just got myself a new toy, it's not shinny but very fun
[21:00:30] <PetefromTn> I just got a new to me HP pavillion and I am seriously thinking about creating a dual boot and running ubuntu and windows 7 so I can run some of these programs in Linux.
[21:00:32] <false> 6 axis robot 0.01mm repeatability :D
[21:00:49] <false> PetefromTn: never hurts
[21:00:49] <kengu> pretty interesting
[21:00:55] <PetefromTn> Holy crap thats cool...
[21:01:29] <PetefromTn> Looks like it weighs a metric ton...
[21:01:38] <false> 1.8
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[21:02:15] <PetefromTn> KimK: I agree it USUALLY works pretty good and It is by far the easiest package for me to learn so far. I hate to bash it but when it crashes it is uber frustrating LOL
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[21:02:21] <false> Got AMC drives so interfacing will be easy, probably install it next to the coffee machine for starters and let it make coffee :P
[21:02:23] <PetefromTn> DAMN...
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[21:02:45] <PetefromTn> You need to bolt a chair with harness on it and make a ride....LOL
[21:03:02] <false> Now that's a plan!
[21:03:15] <PetefromTn> Dangerous fun...
[21:03:16] <false> or use it as a sling shot :P
[21:03:44] <PetefromTn> Is it that fast?
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[21:12:28] <PetefromTn> Just got my KRK rockit Speakers hooked up to the new PC and enjoying some Concrete Blonde.... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JE3a_UfANPI Old school!!
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[21:50:43] <jmasseo> KimK_1: whatever i downloaded from their website/sourceforge. i think i have the latest release
[21:50:51] <jmasseo> win7 64bit
[21:52:28] <jmasseo> PetefromTn: the learning curve did look lower, but the crash problem irritated me. I'll fire it up again soon
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[22:04:48] <NickParker> #arduino
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[22:09:42] <_DJ_> gn8
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[22:12:17] <false> and we're back :P
[22:13:08] <false> power went out
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[22:41:53] <PetefromTn> jmasseo: Yeah man it is kind of annoying when it crashes. Sincerely hope they can get it wired because the program does what nothing else I have seen can do for free.. It has potential..
[22:46:58] <jmasseo> any feature in particular?
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[22:54:17] <PetefromTn> What do you mean?
[22:55:37] <PetefromTn> They are working on a nice Cam package right now as well as direct input to the 3d printer type of files for the GGG guys. Several other interesting items on the agenda but honestly right now I think they really need to just knuckle down and fix all the bugs with the basic program and get it wired before adding goodies.
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[23:08:29] <JT_Shop> andypugh, do you think your reduction box could be made without special equipment?
[23:08:58] <andypugh> I think so, yes.
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[23:09:29] <andypugh> If you had a mill that was really good at circular interpolation, for example
[23:10:06] <JT_Shop> my VMC is pretty good
[23:10:52] <JT_Shop> is it drawn in a parasolid or something can can be exported? I'd love to study it
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[23:14:22] <maZer`-> does someone from here ever build a 5 axis cnc with linuxcnc? :D
[23:14:28] <andypugh> Check your mail box
[23:14:44] <JT_Shop> thanks
[23:14:46] <andypugh> maZer`-: Yes.
[23:14:59] <maZer`-> is it very difficult? :(
[23:15:15] <maZer`-> also i mean from linuxcnc configuration and installation side
[23:15:41] <andypugh> Well, I wsn't saying that I have done it.
[23:15:43] <maZer`-> Hardware is already finished, 4th and 5th axis is with stepper and encoders. 1-3 is with servo dc motor
[23:15:52] <maZer`-> ah sorry andypugh :D
[23:16:21] <andypugh> But 4-axis was easy enough.
[23:16:21] <maZer`-> but a general question, is it possible to mix motors? i mean 1-3 with dc servo and 4th and 5th with stepper motor?
[23:16:33] <andypugh> Yes, absolutely
[23:16:50] <maZer`-> cool, and stepper with encoder possible too?
[23:17:11] <maZer`-> also to use as correction for position :D
[23:17:15] <andypugh> Yes, but it is hard to make an encoder _help_ very much with a stepper.
[23:17:40] <maZer`-> hm its only to make sure the stepper not losing steps.
[23:17:46] <maZer`-> i have 12nm steppers for 4th and 5th axis
[23:18:08] <andypugh> If you are happy enough to just e-stop if the stepper slips, then that's easy
[23:18:32] <maZer`-> yes this is enaugh
[23:18:37] <andypugh> But recovering a stepper is not easy. Increasing the step-rate won't help, it will make things worse.
[23:18:48] <maZer`-> i just want to know my stepper is losing, then i can restart process :D
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[23:19:11] <maZer`-> andypugh are you from germany? :D
[23:19:20] <andypugh> No, UK.
[23:19:28] <maZer`-> oh ok :)
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[23:26:57] <KimK> andypugh: Hi Andy, what is your reduction box drawn in? Could I get a copy too? (Assuming it's in some form I can read?)
[23:27:19] <Tom_itx> maybe he should just share it with the whole of us :D
[23:27:31] <KimK> Ha, there you go.
[23:30:04] <maZer`-> is there any way to switch the outputs on mesa card by hand ? also without linuxcnc?
[23:30:49] <andypugh> I designed it in Autodesk Inventor.
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[23:32:32] <JT_Shop> very clever design Andy
[23:32:40] <andypugh> But I can put an IGES version on the web somewhere.
[23:33:09] <Tom_itx> iges would be awesome
[23:33:34] <andypugh> The problem with IGES is you loose the part associations and the assembly constraints.
[23:33:56] <ds3> isn't that true of any standard format?
[23:34:02] <Tom_itx> would acad read in inventor?
[23:34:03] <andypugh> (The animation was done simply by inserting the part, mating the surfaces and telling it that parts geared together.
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[23:35:21] <KimK> I'd give IGES a try. Also I was curious how far I'd get trying to import it into FreeCAD.
[23:35:46] <andypugh> I think Inventor Fusion is still a free download (but only Windows or Mac). And I only have the IGES version here.
[23:39:31] <andypugh> Sorry for the delay, I am not managing to log into my web hositng.
[23:39:35] <Tom_itx> does iges differentiate layers?
[23:39:44] <Tom_itx> i can't remember
[23:41:18] <andypugh> it's 3D
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[23:42:24] <Tom_itx> yeah but you can still have layers
[23:42:33] <Tom_itx> i just forget if iges keeps that
[23:43:31] <PetefromTn> Just looked at that inventor fusion. Apparently it has been replaced with something called Fusion 360. Not sure if it is a free download or what from their website.
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[23:59:49] <MacGalempsy> evening folks