Back
[00:00:20] <WalterN> here
[00:00:21] <WalterN> https://www.dropbox.com/s/ej43ebsjf3zz1yc/20131101_003.jpg
[00:00:49] <WalterN> the scuff marks are pretty light
[00:01:24] <WalterN> but I'm not sure why... the shorter parts I made dont have that
[00:01:26] <andypugh> I see similar offest lines in the unmachined areas
[00:01:54] <andypugh> Is there a spiral flaw through the whole bar?
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[00:02:34] <Tom_itx> we would have hard spots in the bar but seldom a long split like that
[00:02:42] <WalterN> or that deep
[00:02:59] <andypugh> I guess it has been drawn
[00:03:05] <Tom_itx> the hard spots would usually take out the tooling
[00:03:10] <WalterN> I'm taking .05" off the diameter
[00:03:11] <andypugh> it is possibly a bad bar
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[00:03:46] <Tom_itx> try a radius cutter and see if it's still there
[00:03:46] <WalterN> with copper, hard spots I dont think are a problem... heh
[00:03:57] <Tom_itx> impurities
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[00:04:02] <andypugh> It pretty much _can't_ be your processing, unless you are doing it on purpose with a really good spindle encoder
[00:04:34] <dougztr> wouldn't be harmonice would it?
[00:04:44] <dougztr> *harmonics
[00:04:48] <andypugh> I don't think so
[00:04:52] <t12> hum
[00:04:54] <WalterN> no, its not chatter
[00:04:55] <andypugh> Do all the bars do that?
[00:05:01] <t12> time to set up plate handling robotics
[00:05:09] <WalterN> uh, I've put three bars through it so far
[00:05:14] <andypugh> (Though, they probably all came from the same billet)
[00:05:39] <WalterN> well, one 12' bar and a short sub 4' bar that was laying there cut already
[00:06:19] <andypugh> The right thing to do is cut out a section and have it metallographically polishd and examined.
[00:06:46] <WalterN> heh
[00:06:52] <WalterN> screw that
[00:06:53] <andypugh> But it is probably more expedient to talk to the supplier and ask "any guesses"?
[00:07:23] <WalterN> you know what
[00:07:59] <WalterN> I'm going to turn a small section of it without coolant with a different tool
[00:08:14] <andypugh> Depending on the use, it may not matter at all
[00:08:39] <andypugh> Different spindle gear too...
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[00:10:35] <WalterN> enh, its not that
[00:11:01] <WalterN> looking at the first couple parts I ran (different bar of material) and it does not have those scratches
[00:12:02] <andypugh> I think it's bad material
[00:12:40] <andypugh> If they are parts for a customer, and they supplied the material, then it's easy. Otherwise you have decisions to make.
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[00:13:30] <WalterN> it could be that a chip got lodged in the draw tube sleeve I suppose
[00:13:50] <andypugh> Not that deep.
[00:14:21] <WalterN> .025" deep on a side?
[00:14:27] <Tom_itx> yeah that was done during or after machining
[00:14:48] <Tom_itx> or at least exposed then
[00:15:38] <andypugh> No sign of the _same_ scratch on the unmachined surface. But there is an _offset_ mark on the unmachined surface. It is screaming "spiral flaw" to me.
[00:16:05] <andypugh> Now, I don't know if you get spiral flaws in drawn copper bar.
[00:16:17] <WalterN> the scratches are pretty light... though they seem to be all around the material in no specific pattern
[00:16:31] <WalterN> some longer than others
[00:16:50] <andypugh> But I can see that it might happen, and I am a metallurgist by training.
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[00:18:57] <WalterN> lets run a few more and see
[00:19:19] <Tom_itx> if you're using an insert cutter, rotate the insert and try it again
[00:20:52] <WalterN> how could it be an insert?
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[00:21:31] <WalterN> what would have to happen is the insert would need to be drug across the already finished surface with the spindle turned off
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[00:22:48] <WalterN> at first I thought it was something like a coolant hose thing dragging across the surface of the turned area, but those are well out of the way and it shows up right after turning it
[00:23:05] <Lathe_newbie> could this work?
http://imagebin.org/275479
[00:23:13] <dougztr> it must be a strip with odd hardness
[00:24:57] <WalterN> I just now checked the material before it got turned, and there is no scratch marks deep enough to suggest that there is something like a chip or three in the draw tube scuffing the material
[00:26:13] <andypugh> I would cut a section, polish it, etch it and examine metallographically.
[00:26:24] <WalterN> heh
[00:26:42] <WalterN> I dont think for these that its bad enough for that
[00:26:43] <andypugh> All that realy needs is a few grades of emery paper and some Coca Cola
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[00:27:34] <Tom_itx> what's that stuff they spray on and view under UV?
[00:27:38] <Tom_itx> i forget what it's called
[00:27:51] <dougztr> would roughing and finishing passes help reduce that? not sure how you turned it WalterN
[00:27:52] <Tom_itx> penetrant dye
[00:28:10] <PetefromTn> you talking about magnaflux?
[00:28:51] <WalterN> its cutting about 0.025" off a side (0.05"), its not enough for a roughing pass
[00:29:10] <Tom_itx> no magnaflux is for ferrous material
[00:29:51] <PetefromTn> LOL just dropped in on the convo so no Idea what you are talking about I just took a shot .
[00:30:26] <andypugh> Polishing and etching a cross-section is not the same thing as crack detecting.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metallography
[00:30:44] <dougztr> i had ultrasonic training, lvl 1 ndt actually
[00:30:45] <WalterN> its almost certainly the material
[00:31:08] <WalterN> its not pure copper... its copper with tellerium mixed in for easy machining
[00:31:21] <WalterN> *tellurium
[00:32:38] <andypugh> Nice cross-section of polished and etched copper. If your looked different that would be a warnign sign
[00:33:35] <andypugh> You could part off a disc, polish it on emery and etch with whatever you can find. Metallography is not rocket science (ecept, f course, when it is)
[00:33:40] <andypugh> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Cu-Scheibe.JPG
[00:34:46] <WalterN> thats pure copper, what I'm working with is tellurium mixed in with copper
[00:35:33] <andypugh> That doesn't matter for spotting a big inclusion
[00:36:08] <andypugh> That's also as-cast and your is probably cold-drawn
[00:36:44] <WalterN> *shrug*
[00:37:19] <andypugh> (I play the part of the expert in all sorts of areas here on the internet, but when it comes to metallurgy, I really am one, published papers and my own spring-steel aloy)
[00:39:02] <WalterN> yeah... all of you guys in here are pretty amazing
[00:39:11] <WalterN> <3
[00:39:37] <WalterN> but I've sat here talking about it enough without the machine running, and overall its not that important
[00:40:01] <dougztr> i need to start hanging here. i'm taking a CNC programming class
[00:40:45] <andypugh> Yeah, it really might not matter for the application. I don't think anyone uses copper structurally
[00:41:19] <andypugh> dougztr: How would you expect G85 to behave?
[00:41:30] <WalterN> dougztr: if you know how to program in something like C or java, I dont see why you would need a G and M code programming class...
[00:41:54] <dougztr> andypugh: canned boring cycle?
[00:41:59] <andypugh> Yes
[00:42:37] <dougztr> i would expect it to plunge in and then retract out
[00:42:53] <WalterN> you get a soda can from the machine when its run \o/
[00:43:22] <dougztr> boring bars are for fine tolerances afaik
[00:43:47] <WalterN> depends
[00:43:56] <andypugh> dougztr: I think it is meant to feed in and feed out. But my question is about the speed between start-z and R
[00:44:04] <WalterN> reamers are better for tolerance
[00:44:19] <dougztr> andypugh: should be rapid
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[00:44:35] <andypugh> WalterN: No good for shallow holes like bearing seats though
[00:44:49] <dougztr> andypugh: we haven't talked about boring yet though
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[00:45:17] <andypugh> I use my boring heads a lot.
[00:45:43] <dougztr> WalterN: the class had a lot of info on feed rates, spindle speed, and stuff I just didn't know
[00:46:32] <dougztr> i just wrote the feed rate and spindle speed program for my calculator
[00:46:53] <archivist> andypugh, structural copper-> boiler firebox inner
[00:47:04] <WalterN> dougztr: that kind of information is pretty readily available... ask here, the manufacturer of the inserts, or the place you order the material from
[00:47:22] <andypugh> This was a fun one: Single point external threading in a recess. A thread mill might have fitted:
http://youtu.be/i4fTythQj5s
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[00:47:51] <andypugh> (threading is about 1 min in)
[00:47:51] <dougztr> WalterN: well, I don't work and don't have access to the machines otherwise. i think its been useful so far
[00:48:36] <dougztr> maybe someday i can get my own small CNC shop going here. i'm hoping
[00:49:27] <WalterN> oh yeah, in that case its not a bad idea
[00:49:46] <WalterN> esp. if you are looking for a job in that area
[00:50:12] <dougztr> WalterN: whats going on is I am a mechanical engineer, but became disabled, so I am looking into home and part time types of work
[00:50:35] <WalterN> very good :3
[00:50:39] <dougztr> cnc programmer can be a consultant, pop in, tweak a program, cash out. etc
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[00:51:10] <WalterN> are you looking at retirement soonish? or is that a ways off?
[00:51:21] <dougztr> I'm retired *now*
[00:52:08] <dougztr> a lot earlier than I really wanted or planned for tbh
[00:52:33] <WalterN> ah
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[00:53:26] <WalterN> andypugh: different bar of material, and the marks are gone
[00:53:39] <andypugh> Life's too short to work for a living. Though most of us don't get the choice.
[00:54:23] <dougztr> i'm really bored. Need to keep occupied.
[00:54:52] <WalterN> well
[00:55:21] <andypugh> Yeah, but the good news is you now get to choose what you do. The bad news is that it probably needs to be inexpensive
[00:55:21] <WalterN> andypugh: thats kinda what I decided college was, after getting about half way through a mechanical engineering class
[00:59:09] <kwallace> andypugh: Do you have a date with engraving yet?
[00:59:34] <andypugh> No, the material failed to arrive
[01:01:14] <kwallace> I'm guessing you are making a new part from a large block of cast iron or steel?
[01:04:10] <andypugh> Yes. 4" dia x 2" block of Meeehanite iron
[01:04:53] <andypugh> To make a new one of these:
https://picasaweb.google.com/108164504656404380542/Rivett#5893914809299321218
[01:04:58] <dougztr> you guys using EMC2?
[01:05:11] <kwallace> I'm trying to talk myself into making the steel parts for a rotor magnetizer:
http://www.wallacecompany.com/KDX250/IMG_1477-1a.JPG http://www.smokstak.com/articles/magnet_charger.html
[01:05:38] <andypugh> I did consider makine a pattern and having castings made, but as they all tend to break, then perhaps milled from solid might last longer.
[01:06:01] <andypugh> dougztr: No, not any more. Not allowed to. Lawyers, you know.
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[01:09:12] <andypugh> Pah! Some of them have been know to break inside the first 50 years of use!
[01:09:16] <WalterN> dougztr: not yet
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[01:09:31] <WalterN> andypugh: why lawyers?
[01:09:48] <WalterN> I mean, how could they be the issue with you using linuxCNC?
[01:10:11] <archivist> the company called EMC went and trademarked the term EMC2
[01:10:33] <andypugh> Because the EMC lawyers decided that the Enhanced Machine Controller was in conflict with their cipyright
[01:10:36] <dougztr> i see the name changed to LinuxCNC
[01:10:56] <ChuangTzu> balls
[01:11:02] <WalterN> oh
[01:11:03] <WalterN> heh
[01:11:06] <WalterN> right
[01:11:26] <dougztr> I've had it running before. I was planning on using it on something at work
[01:11:49] <andypugh> Which is all very well, but what if we wanted to make a Mac or Windows or OS2/Warp or.... version?
[01:12:16] <WalterN> I want to get an old CNC machine and put linuxCNC on it, and make my own machines with linuxCNC as the controller
[01:13:07] <dougztr> sounds spendy
[01:13:19] <archivist> there are many people who have made their own machines
[01:13:33] <andypugh> Anyway, out of wine, changes pushed, things to do tomorrow. See you next time chaps.
[01:13:36] <archivist> dougztr, scrap yard :)
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[01:14:19] <WalterN> enh
[01:14:33] <WalterN> depends on how nice you want to make the machine
[01:14:33] <dougztr> what hardware is typically needed to interface with the machine, say from a pc?
[01:14:59] <WalterN> dougztr: make your own, or mesa cards as far as I can tell
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[01:15:34] <WalterN> http://www.mesanet.com/
[01:15:53] <archivist> being a real cheap person, a bit of vero card with a few ttl buffers chips between the parallel port and stepper drivers
[01:17:24] <WalterN> I dont like to cheap out personally :P
[01:17:45] <WalterN> (example: my $400 food blender)
[01:17:49] <WalterN> :3
[01:17:51] <archivist> if you are on low income, sometimes one has to
[01:18:05] <WalterN> yeah
[01:19:48] <kwallace> I tend to make my own boards for the parallel port because each signal seems to need its own pull up/down voltage or termination or some such.
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[01:21:07] <WalterN> something like this would make a great engraving spindle...
http://www.artcotools.com/compete-nsk-e3000-series-spindle-system-60-000-rpm.html
[01:21:27] <WalterN> but it costs about $3,000-$4,000
[01:22:10] <archivist> I was at an exhibition and they let me handle a spindle at 60k
[01:22:30] <archivist> amazing balance
[01:22:43] <WalterN> yeah
[01:22:53] <WalterN> where I used to work, they have one of those
[01:23:12] <WalterN> well, a lesser model, but basically the same thing
[01:23:23] <WalterN> spins up really nice, smooth, super quiet
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[01:39:24] <dougztr> how about these things?
http://labjack.com/
[01:40:58] <WalterN> dosent USB generally increase latency?
[01:41:15] <WalterN> (I wouldent know)
[01:43:01] <dougztr> 20ms latency it looks like
[01:43:32] <WalterN> thats kind of a lot
[01:44:14] <WalterN> ethernet is something like .5 if the router and ethernet card is not very good
[01:44:31] <WalterN> erm, 5ms+ rather
[01:44:54] <WalterN> sub 1ms if its decent
[01:46:47] <WalterN> I'm not sure what kind of latency the mesa cards have
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[06:30:55] <Jymmm> This is a very nice Timer Relay if you ever need one...
http://www.ebay.com/itm/NCC-TMM-0999M-461-Timer-120-VAC-Free-Shipping-TMM0999M461-01SEC-999MIN-/310760922627
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[08:00:17] <_DJ_> moin
[08:40:36] <MacGalempsy> morning
[08:59:54] <_DJ_> hi MacGalempsy
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[09:45:22] <MacGalempsy> :)
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[10:44:56] <t12> http://150.203.48.55/index.php
[10:51:58] <jthornton> anyone recall the links to the AC servo/drive combos that folks have been using?
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[12:25:33] <Loetmichel> mornin'
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[13:11:27] <awallin> jthornton: mesa? granitedevices?
[13:12:20] <awallin> motors
http://shop.granitedevices.com/category/3/servo-motors
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[15:32:46] <ChuangTzu> 24% vat
[15:32:47] <ChuangTzu> wow
[15:32:49] <ChuangTzu> where is that
[15:33:14] <ChuangTzu> .fi?
[15:33:33] <ChuangTzu> they raised it since i was there
[15:33:34] <ChuangTzu> used to be 20
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[15:56:12] <WalterN> heh
[15:57:00] <WalterN> yesterday I guess I could have cut the bars so 5, 5, and 6 pieces come off, instead of 8 and having the material stick out 20" for the first part
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[18:00:32] <IchGuckLive> hi all
[18:00:44] <IchGuckLive> someone here uses ooo Base
[18:00:53] <IchGuckLive> or is a Sql freak
[18:01:25] <IchGuckLive> the weather is bad in germany and we harvested till the rain started 5000Tonns of corn
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[18:02:45] <PetefromTn> Afternoon Folks!!
[18:03:23] <IchGuckLive> hi
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[18:07:07] <PetefromTn> Hey Ich..
[18:08:25] <Loetmichel> IchGuckLive: corn or wheat?
[18:09:15] <Loetmichel> i.E: (Futter)Mais oder Weizen?
[18:09:16] <IchGuckLive> corn its late in the year
[18:09:26] <IchGuckLive> Biogas
[18:09:31] <Loetmichel> could have been "winterweizen"
[18:09:51] <Loetmichel> oh, i see, corn for fermenting
[18:10:37] <Loetmichel> and then runnung an engine for producing heat/electricity with it... seems a bit odd every time, to let food rott intentionally :-)
[18:12:07] <kengu> and then pay taxes to use the self produced fuel. (: some 0,4e/l or eq
[18:13:26] <Loetmichel> kengu: no fuel
[18:13:28] <Loetmichel> gas
[18:14:01] <Loetmichel> mostly methane i would think
[18:14:01] <kengu> Loetmichel: yeah. well.. same goes with that
[18:14:34] <kengu> the measuring is different and so is tax
[18:15:32] <WalterN> do they tax everclear as a fuel?
[18:15:39] <Loetmichel> i have a friend whio has his own oil mill amd makes his castor oul himself... and put it in his diesel engines ;-)
[18:16:16] <Loetmichel> s/ castor/canola
[18:16:18] <Loetmichel> sorry
[18:16:42] <kengu> WalterN: could. but at least it is forbidden to try to make it
[18:17:39] <WalterN> at least?
[18:18:11] <Loetmichel> ah, had to google
[18:18:24] <Loetmichel> everclear is ethanol 95% ;-)
[18:18:49] <Loetmichel> yeah, taht would work in alsmost ever modern otto engine car
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[18:46:10] <WalterN> generally its sold as an alcohol drink... never had any but if I did it would probably be dispensed with an eye dropper
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[19:00:17] <IchGuckLive> i solved my 2Years SQL problem and now get easy going on report from Corn harvest
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[19:00:24] <IchGuckLive> YES ;-)
[19:00:33] <IchGuckLive> i solved my 2Years SQL problem and now get easy going on report from Corn harvest
[19:00:43] <IchGuckLive> SELECT "Stunde", "NettoErtrag" FROM "Ernteverlauf_Stunden" WHERE "Datum" LIKE '%' || :Enter_Date || '%' ORDER BY "Stunde" ASC
[19:01:04] <IchGuckLive> now i only need to put in the Date and the chart will generate from magic
[19:01:41] <IchGuckLive> ok im off Bye im going to ROFL for a WILE O.O
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[19:02:35] <archivist> cannot use an index, phail
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[21:12:18] <maZer`-> hi all :)
[21:13:56] <_DJ_> hi there
[21:14:01] <_DJ_> nice to meet you ;)
[21:14:04] <_DJ_> hrhr
[21:14:13] <maZer`-> hi _DJ_ :D
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[21:28:34] <maZer`-> Someone from germany here with little bit of experience in servo dc configuration? :(
[21:32:00] <andypugh> Is Loetmichel in Germany?
[21:32:12] <_DJ_> yes, he is
[21:34:00] <maZer`-> hehe :D
[21:34:35] <WalterN> thats a new error...
[21:35:11] <WalterN> alarm 998 -- ROM Parity error
[21:35:28] <WalterN> looked it up in the book and it says to replace the ROM board
[21:36:08] <WalterN> bleh
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[22:14:23] <_DJ_> gn8
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[22:38:34] <Loetmichel> andypugh: i am
[22:39:31] <Loetmichel> but i have not much expoerience in DC servo configuration ;-)
[22:39:34] <andypugh> maZer`-: Was looking for someone in Germany. He didn't say why they had to be in Germany
[22:39:50] <andypugh> He was only asking for a little bit of eperience :-)
[22:40:36] <Loetmichel> have configured 3kw Siemens ac servos, though (PITA!)
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[23:02:49] <maZer`-> andypugh i dont know why in germany :D
[23:03:08] <maZer`-> my english is not very good, and i have much problems to understand all :(
[23:03:44] <andypugh> Goodnight chaps.
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