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[00:02:31] <andypugh> I don't know enough to hold an opnion
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[01:03:33] <MacGalempsy> andypugh: can you point me in a direction to figure out how all the connections from the dc amplifier will connect to the mesa card?
[01:04:37] <andypugh> How many do you have? I would rather expect to see at most 3 wires (common, enable and velocity)
[01:05:33] <MacGalempsy> let me get the pic
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[01:06:01] <MacGalempsy> http://www.flickr.com/photos/58181938@N03/10299322184/
[01:06:45] <MacGalempsy> there is one amplifier for each dc servo. J1 looks straight forward, but J2 has 10 wires
[01:07:59] <andypugh> They seem to be clearly labeled. Not that the clear labels are clear in their meaning :-)
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[01:08:37] <MacGalempsy> yes. I got a wiring diagram of the control, so it looks like a shortcut has been circumvented
[01:09:00] <andypugh> What are the terminal labels?
[01:10:34] <andypugh> (That's quite bice wiring too)
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[01:13:17] <andypugh> (err, nice, I mean)
[01:20:22] <MacGalempsy> ah ok back. so J1 are logic outs/ins
[01:21:05] <MacGalempsy> so to this point, the wires are all labled and catalogued. most of the equipment has available spec sheets
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[01:21:45] <MacGalempsy> im about to go out to the garage and fire up hangout. brb
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[01:27:38] <MacGalempsy> ahh back so soon
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[01:42:41] <andypugh> Any more info?
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[01:45:28] <andypugh> Sleep time for me. Back Sunday night (I will be reading emails in the interim)
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[02:32:25] <draconlord> guys the rt kernels are not supported with virtualbox
[02:33:31] <jdh> there is no need for a rt kernel in virtualbox
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[06:55:21] <_DJ_> moin
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[07:50:55] <Loetmichel> mornin'
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[08:51:04] <MacGalempsy> evening
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[09:30:06] <ReadError> <draconlord> guys the rt kernels are not supported with virtualbox
[09:30:07] <ReadError> lol
[09:32:50] <archivist> there is a gross misunderstanding of vm's out there :)
[09:42:10] <Valen> I have seen some RT stuff done with VM's actually
[09:43:59] <Valen> not linux though as far as i recall
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[09:49:54] <ReadError> i run linuxcnc in vmware esxi for testing
[09:49:57] <ReadError> no issues
[09:49:59] <yullin> Is there somebody who currently make use of compensation files?
[09:51:21] <archivist> yullin, I have seen just a few questions over the years, mostly no, but ask the real question
[09:51:28] <yullin> I've a problem, I need to understand the right logic using compensation. I know how that files work but I need to know how use them to maximize performances
[09:52:29] <archivist> what do you mean by "maximize performances"
[09:52:49] <archivist> accuracy or speed or...
[09:53:49] <yullin> I use index pulse homing, so I turn on the cnc, i home axes and then I measure step by step (each 50mm) the actual position of the screw, moving forward and then backward to the origin (so that I can see backlash if it exist)
[09:55:16] <yullin> then I write the comp files and the axes start to go rigth (no significant errors)
[09:55:47] <archivist> I just did a web page measuring an axis on my machine, the main error is the stepper motor resolution on mine
[09:56:36] <yullin> the only issue is linked to the 0,0 position where, coming backward, the axes do not achieve 0,0 position but they still have a significant error.
[09:57:00] <yullin> archivist: accuracy
[09:57:38] <yullin> I have a servo system
[09:58:39] <archivist> I would do a graph stepping out by small steps then reverse in small steps, dont forget there will also be mechanical errors
[09:59:23] <archivist> I have see a rotation of an axis due to loose gibs
[09:59:45] <yullin> ok
[10:00:37] <archivist> what accuracy are you trying to get down to
[10:10:23] <yullin> about 0.01mm
[10:11:04] <yullin> and i'm everywhere ok xcept for the origin zone
[10:11:34] <archivist> I know I have a backlash problem, this is a unidirectional test
http://www.archivist.info/cnc/screw_error/
[10:13:04] <yullin> oh good, what kind of appparate do you use to get all that infos?
[10:13:39] <archivist> that image and a pencil and paper
[10:14:06] <archivist> then input to a database and used a graph add on for php
[10:16:35] <archivist> on the bottom graph you can see the large error due to backlash or I just thought........it was an acme screw with backlash compensation, did I remove it?
[10:17:08] <archivist> else any compensation will be adding that offset error
[10:17:49] <archivist> must fire it back up to check that and update the page
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[10:26:26] <yullin> mm i think i will read your page carefully
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[10:28:52] <archivist> ok I just checked I do not have backlash compensation enabled
[10:30:05] <archivist> updated the page notes
[10:36:33] <archivist> and added some more to the notes :)
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[14:59:16] <Tom_itx> archivist did you ever receive those boss books? i forgot if i ever asked
[15:00:25] <archivist> no not yet, not managed to meet up
[15:00:42] <Tom_itx> ahh ok
[15:01:20] <Tom_itx> i suppose they can collect dust there just as easy as here
[15:03:01] <archivist> :)
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[15:34:03] <berny83> hi guys! I have a problem with mesa5i23 noise. My cnc is equipped with a probe, at the moment that I switch on the cnc pc the probe motherboard get crazy and return ok when I turn on emc (so when hal is loaded)... the big problem is that when I give the enable to the motors probe get crazy again... this problem is making alse me crazy!!!
[15:35:52] <archivist> electrical noise needs proper diagnosis and some thinking
[15:36:32] <berny83> with a scope i can see that before starting mesa 5i23 motor drives receive very noisy signals
[15:36:58] <berny83> is there a way to keep under control mesa noises?
[15:37:39] <berny83> it seems to affect every electronic apparate in a radius of some meters
[15:39:04] <archivist> I dont think the mesa card is the source, it is an io card
[15:39:26] <berny83> so you think about drivers?
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[15:40:47] <archivist> iirc you have not used one of the mesa breakout boards
[15:41:09] <archivist> 7i...
[15:41:18] <berny83> breackout boards = daughter boards?
[15:41:24] <archivist> yes
[15:41:41] <berny83> no, i'm using only 5i23
[15:43:09] <berny83> some days ago we spoke about debounce comp and introducing it I have solved problems about mechanical switches...
[15:43:16] <archivist> I cannot guess what you are doing with the signals though
[15:43:28] <kwallace1> More often than not, VFDs and drivers need filters on their AC power inputs.
[15:43:31] <berny83> but i'm still having problem with other signals (i mean..)
[15:44:10] <berny83> VFD? what does it means?
[15:44:10] <archivist> motor drivers are the usual source of noise
[15:44:17] <berny83> ok
[15:44:46] <archivist> bad screening and grounding is how the noise is coupled into the circuits
[15:45:09] <archivist> so two or three steps to cure
[15:45:40] <archivist> per drive
[15:46:29] <kwallace1> The shiny box near the center is my spindle VFD filter:
http://www.wallacecompany.com/cnc_lathe/HNC/00024-1a.jpg
[15:47:09] <berny83> ok
[15:47:21] <kwallace1> I added anther one later for the coolant VFD in the lower left.
[15:47:29] <archivist> I see at least 4 breaking resistors :)
[15:48:10] <archivist> mine let the smoke out on one of my drives
[15:48:32] <kwallace1> Oops.
[15:48:42] <berny83> so i need to filter AC input?
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[15:50:12] <archivist> kwallace1, is oops and all, second drive to fail on that machine, but at least the drives were free to me
[15:50:43] <archivist> berny83, see your drive manual, usually yes
[15:50:56] <kwallace1> Yes. My VFD has three phase input but I'm using it on single phase with a single phase filter.
[15:51:30] <berny83> ok, thank you!!!
[15:51:32] <berny83> :)
[15:52:29] <archivist> I had to add grounding from machine to control box when I added a vfd to the 5 axis
[15:53:04] <archivist> and improve the pullup on the stepper drive
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[15:58:20] <kwallace1> I had an encoder that would count on its own every few seconds. I put a scope in the signals and could see the noise wiggle just below the input trigger voltage, but every once in a while pop up enough the trigger. I pulled the signal down a little and the problem went away. I sized the resistor by watching the On/Off signal voltage on the scope.
[16:00:06] <archivist> maybe one day we should build a web page with a a bunch of noise problems and possible cures
[16:01:02] <archivist> and switching level as that is part the problem (noise immunity)
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[16:05:23] <archivist> we had some horrible harmonic noise from a toroid transformer in a microphone amplifier, we had to rotate it 90 degrees
[16:10:28] <kwallace1> I got this VFD a few days ago:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/121182772309 It was sold as not working and they were right.
[16:11:20] <archivist> I have noticed people paying rather a lot for non workers
[16:12:10] <archivist> one here went for £32 which I though over the top for dead
[16:12:29] <kwallace1> I figured it would be easy to fix, and I wouldn't kill a good one while learning.
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[16:13:42] <archivist> I now have a couple of dead ones I should experiment on
[16:13:42] <kwallace1> The DC bus voltage comes up fine. I noticed a dark spot on the main board but the resistors there test out okay. The logic has no power.
[16:15:17] <kwallace1> This one has Modbus built in. I was considering a new cheap Chinese one, but I've read the Modus on these is funky.
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[16:17:20] <archivist> I have a third that blew the mains fuse in the plug with a loud bang, kept it away from volts since then
[16:23:59] <kwallace1> These VFDs seem pretty basic hardware wise. The magic seems to be in the software. Building the hardware from scratch should not be hard, but I need LinuxVFD.
[16:27:26] <kwallace1> archivist: What brand and model VFDs do you have broken?
[16:29:07] <archivist> all three are different makes, mitsubishi z024-SO 37K, and a couple of makes I have found almost nothing on the web
[16:31:31] <archivist> make that four, I replaced on on a customers machine, that is a eurotherm
[16:33:08] <archivist> it was driving the motor but not responding to signals properly
[16:35:09] <kwallace1> I like my Freqrol VFDs. They are way old, but I got them cheap and they just keep working.
[16:36:22] <archivist> I have one on the 5 axis
[16:36:39] <kwallace1> I've been meaning to make a webpage on my site for my VFD's - maybe today.
[16:37:09] <archivist> I can make a page of dead ones :)
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[16:43:31] <IchGuckLive> hi all B)
[16:54:42] <kwallace1> How is the Euro CNC Fest going?
[16:55:55] <IchGuckLive> well i did only 60sheets today instad of 110+ on averige day
[16:56:10] <IchGuckLive> kwallace1: only 20 people in the shop
[16:56:35] <IchGuckLive> i guess 15 woudt only know how we do this and make there own
[16:59:20] <kwallace1> It's good to see at least someone is getting work done. I was curious about the LinuxCNC meeting in Germany today.
[17:00:03] <IchGuckLive> it is as it is 1000downloads a week on linuxcnc and 1000 licenses a day on mach
[17:02:08] <IchGuckLive> eSata is the hell of speed to the backup systems
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[17:09:12] <IchGuckLive> i dont understand why the MB/s is diffenent on differnen folders
[17:11:06] <IchGuckLive> its realy cool copying at 120Mb/s on 10.04
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[17:13:41] <FinboySlick> IchGuckLive: What filesystem are you using? If it's a mechanical drive, fragmentation can really kill throughput.
[17:14:07] <IchGuckLive> im on ext4 on both internal and external
[17:14:09] <kwallace1> SCSI used to be the bee's knees. I found some of these in the shop yesterday:
http://az413224.vo.msecnd.net/img/12128/m_12128_21.jpg Real beauties mechanically.
[17:14:39] <IchGuckLive> i got some older ones here
[17:14:46] <FinboySlick> IchGuckLive: e4defrag might help you on the slow folders.
[17:15:17] <FinboySlick> IchGuckLive: Also keep in mind that the copy order is not the same as the disk order. If there are lots of small files, you'll still be wasting a lot of time on seek.
[17:15:44] <IchGuckLive> agree
[17:16:10] <IchGuckLive> kwallace1: st-157A is the oldest drive i got here on a 25Mhz system
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[18:13:24] <IchGuckLive> have a nice weekend where ever you are in the world
[18:13:31] <IchGuckLive> bye ReadError
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[18:14:59] <ReadError> ;)
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[18:19:47] <somenewguy> does linuxcnc have a built-in hole function?
[18:20:34] <somenewguy> ie spiral down using cutter compensation, I saw it once but I don't recall if it was in linuxCNC, mach3, or some other software and now I can't find the page I am remembering...
[18:21:32] <cpresser> somenewguy:
http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/html/gcode/gcode.html#sec:G81-Drilling-Cycle
[18:21:41] <awallin> there might be a g-code wizard for that
[18:21:42] <cpresser> spiral-down can be donw with G2/G3
[18:22:13] <cpresser> use P for more than one turn
[18:24:26] <somenewguy> cpresser: I meant with an end mill
[18:25:27] <cpresser> G2 P3 will do 3 full circles. G2 can be combined with cutter-radius compensation
[18:25:30] <somenewguy> there are some tools for making holes with an endmill which I am gonna use today, but it sparked a memory of there being a g-code for such thing
[18:25:49] <somenewguy> ooooh
[18:26:16] <cpresser> jsut do a full circle and add a z-value
[18:26:17] <somenewguy> although I guess that still doesnt help tho
[18:26:29] <somenewguy> multi line==gotta still write a code
[18:26:34] <somenewguy> a code lol
[18:26:37] <somenewguy> but you get waht I meant
[18:27:43] <somenewguy> thanks though, I was unaware I could use G2 that way
[18:27:53] <somenewguy> oooh wait a sec, reading the specifics, looks like this is implemented actually
[18:28:22] <somenewguy> from within G2/G3
[18:28:42] <cpresser> you just need one line for the helix-move. as i said above, use the 'P' parameter
[18:33:01] <somenewguy> So a G2 I1 J0 P5 Z-1
[18:33:09] <somenewguy> assuming I started at z0
[18:33:17] <WalterN> any of you guys have a favorite place to buy caster wheels to make shop carts out of?
[18:33:43] <somenewguy> will spiral down in a circle centered 1 unit to the 'right' of the initial position, to Z-1, in 5 turns
[18:34:02] <somenewguy> also the J can be left out if it is 0? I know it can in mach3
[18:34:34] <cpresser> somenewguy: honestly, i dont know for sure. just try it on the simulator :)
[18:34:40] <somenewguy> WalterN: not the cheapest, but mcmaster is the easiest/fastest
[18:35:00] <somenewguy> cpresser: I will just do what I usually do, try it 4 inches above the workpiece
[18:35:05] <somenewguy> thats what the e-stops for!
[18:35:32] <cpresser> somenewguy: if you put it in a file, axis will also show you the preview
[18:35:34] <somenewguy> gotta run, thanks a ton, I didn't think the arc commands could work in 2+ planes
[18:35:57] <somenewguy> yeah, but its more obvoius in real life, sometimes a sign error is only obvious when it starts to run IRL, not on the screen
[18:35:58] <cpresser> (eg not enter it in mdi directly, but rather load a gcode file; then you will see the preview
[18:37:05] * cpresser uses a CAM for most stuff. i forgot how to program G2/G3 moves
[18:37:31] <somenewguy> I plan to get all my wizards/extensions in order, and do exactly that
[18:37:43] <somenewguy> the faster I forget, the better a job of editing the code I did lol
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[18:39:15] <WalterN> http://www.ebay.com/itm/48-Pcs-2-Swivel-Caster-Wheels-Base-Wheel-Bearing-2-X-2-Base-Heavy-Duty-New/121197401237?rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.m1851&_trkparms=aid%3D222002%26algo%3DSIC.FIT%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D18190%26meid%3D2098547723014472273%26pid%3D100005%26prg%3D8337%26rk%3D4%26rkt%3D5%26sd%3D181237076867%26
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[18:43:16] <WalterN> donno what the weight rating is on them thhough
[18:43:19] <WalterN> though
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[18:53:27] <CaptHindsight> <100lbs
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[20:39:43] <draconlord> greetings linuxcnc guru's
[20:40:34] <draconlord> last night i've up all night to figure out how to install linuxcnc on ubuntu 12.04
[20:41:24] <draconlord> well lots of people here gave a great amount of help and walked me though the rt kernel install
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[20:50:00] <skunkworks_> how did it go?
[20:52:37] <mrsun_> https://fbcdn-sphotos-c-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/1384257_10151923272758648_2037345409_n.jpg realy starting to take shape =)
[20:58:52] <skunkworks_> Nice!
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[21:13:00] <_DJ_> gn8
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[22:01:35] <WalterN> is WD40 conductive?
[22:02:21] <Tom_itx> test it
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[22:02:48] <Tom_itx> it probably is
[22:03:28] <Tom_itx> http://hackaday.com/2013/10/19/blender-cam-open-source-cam-software/
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