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[05:03:39] <toastyde2th> can anyone think of an airflow sensor that has enough bandwidth to operate at audio frequencies
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[05:08:10] <t12> a... microphone?
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[05:09:53] <toastyde2th> t12, that's a pressure sensor
[05:10:20] <toastyde2th> hm, although maybe I can rig one to operate as a flow sensor
[05:21:34] <MacGalempsy> is it called a vernulli sensor?
[05:23:17] <toastyde2th> it has to be nonintrusive
[05:23:20] <toastyde2th> or minimally intrusive
[05:23:28] <toastyde2th> and has to operate at 400-1000 hz or so
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[05:46:34] <jesseg> Howdy Folks. I'm trying to figure out the size name proper for a motor who's mounting holes form a 50mm square....
[05:46:52] <jesseg> In other words, like "NEMA 23" except for metric motors - specifically a 50mm square bolt pattern.
[05:47:10] <jesseg> It may be 49.875mm square instead
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[05:49:46] <MacGalempsy> no idea jesseg
[05:50:15] <MacGalempsy> just go to some motor company website and look at schematics
[05:52:03] <jesseg> hehe yeah..
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[06:27:00] <MacGalempsy> archivist: have you used the mesa board before?
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[06:58:46] <MacGalempsy> hangout?
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[07:20:08] <_DJ_> moin
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[07:41:54] <MacGalempsy> hola
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[08:10:49] <archivist> MacGalempsy, no I have not
[08:11:28] <MacGalempsy> ok.
[08:12:14] <archivist> I lack funds, so do a lot as cheaply as possible, rather than ideal
[08:13:12] <MacGalempsy> i am curious about running ins to the board
[08:14:04] <MacGalempsy> the boards should be here this week. but the 5i25 I got may be for ATX not SFF...
[08:14:12] <MacGalempsy> so may have to ship it back
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[09:20:21] <exco> vsd specialists around?
[09:23:23] <archivist> vsd?
[09:24:04] <archivist> define vsd
[09:26:10] <archivist> exco did you notice the topic
[09:26:46] <archivist> freenode is all about open source projects
[09:27:05] <blossom> i think, he means value stream design
[09:27:14] <blossom> D:
[09:27:44] <archivist> I think virtual servoce delivery
[09:27:44] <blossom> (just kdding)
[09:28:18] <blossom> aha, versatile servo drives
[09:28:30] <blossom> http://granitedevices.com/servo-drive-vsd-e this?
[09:28:32] <blossom> those?
[09:28:34] <blossom> them? :)
[09:28:43] <exco> ^ yes
[09:28:56] <blossom> okay, i know nothin about them :)
[09:28:58] <archivist> why did you not answer my questin
[09:29:05] <exco> sorry, was afk
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[09:29:16] <blossom> but cool looking coolers ^^
[09:29:39] <exco> indeed
[09:30:03] <blossom> in the sense of heatsinks
[09:30:29] <archivist> not sure many would bother using them with linuxcnc
[09:30:34] <exco> so I'm having this linuxcnc integrator meeting at my workshop this weekend and I'm trying to "complete" the 6-axis Manutec ...
[09:31:50] <exco> I'm now back to configuring these esc's (startup problems) when I'd much rather be working on the linuxcnc side of things
[09:33:01] <archivist> I wonder if there internal loop would get in the way of the linuxcnc loop
[09:33:13] <archivist> how are you using
[09:35:06] <archivist> are you letting it home (cannot imaging that working with linuxcnc, using it as step dir and linuxcnc doing the homing should work
[09:35:51] <exco> granitedevices tells me the pid loops will work together if setup correctly
[09:36:05] <exco> homing is done through linuxcnc
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[09:36:59] <exco> linuxcnc controls the vsd's via analog (differential signal)
[09:40:01] <archivist> using a mesa card? may be best to wait for pcw to wake up
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[09:47:18] <archivist> also where is the encoder feed back going to, vsd or the mesa card, are you in velocity or torque mode
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[09:51:57] <exco> yes, mesa card
[09:52:31] <exco> encoder feedback is going through vsd to mesa
[09:52:38] <exco> velocity mode
[10:17:09] <exco> any reason why my first 3 axis would ignore TYPE = ANGULAR?
[10:18:16] <archivist> dunno maybe the kins
[10:24:22] <archivist> you could define the order to be abcxyz, but dont know what your machine is
[10:24:50] <exco> 6dof robot
[10:25:26] <archivist> have you set the kins to one suitable
[10:27:00] <exco> genserkins
[10:32:35] <archivist> aren't they all angular therefore default to angular in that case
[10:34:04] <exco> I can only control the speed of axis 0-2 by setting step speed [mm/s] and [°/s] for axis 3-5
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[14:47:52] <evo4wrx> hi is there anyone from mesa online?
[14:48:41] <cradek> hi, always just go ahead and ask your real question
[14:49:18] <evo4wrx> im looking for a card capable of inetegration with 7 axis robotic arm running ASDA-2 Delta servo drives
[14:49:34] <evo4wrx> opencan would be fantastic but I dont believe the support of EMC2 is there yet
[14:49:53] <evo4wrx> I would prefer RS485 as the backup medium
[14:51:28] <evo4wrx> secondary axis feedback is also required...ie Encoder fixed to the rotaion axis of the harmonics gear reducer
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[14:52:31] <cradek> cool, hang around and maybe someone will be able to offer some help
[14:53:14] <pcw_home> What interface options do the drives have?
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[14:54:00] <evo4wrx> RS232 , opencan, PWM, RS485
[14:54:21] <evo4wrx> we have noice and site regulations which preclude certain mediums however
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[14:54:25] <evo4wrx> noise
[14:55:28] <evo4wrx> opencan and RS485 were chose on throughput and industrial spec
[14:55:56] <pcw_home> can it do real time velocity mode with RS-485 (RS-485 is and electrical spec but whats the protocol? Modbus?)
[14:56:36] <evo4wrx> ill pull the pdf up one moment
[14:57:38] <pcw_home> it may only support PWM for real time (CAN is pretty slow)
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[15:02:08] <evo4wrx> 1mbit would be more than enough for that many axis i would have thought
[15:03:07] <pcw_home> in position command mode sure
[15:03:31] <pcw_home> in real time feedback mode, probably not
[15:03:47] <evo4wrx> okay ill take any advice I can get
[15:04:19] <evo4wrx> http://www.delta.com.tw/product/em/motion/motion_servo/download/manual/DELTA_ASDA-A2_M_EN_20131011.pdf
[15:04:58] <pcw_home> Looks like it will do what they call position interpolation mode with CAN (PVT maybe)
[15:05:57] <evo4wrx> im using that drive coupled to 2kw AC servos 3000rpm normal 5000 RPM peak
[15:07:27] <evo4wrx> ive used delta DMCnet before and that hits speeds of 20mbit and daisey chains on.
[15:07:33] <evo4wrx> so its very very simple to interface
[15:07:43] <evo4wrx> of course their backend isint close to EMC2 linux
[15:08:03] <evo4wrx> and I require intergration back to Darpa and Gazebo
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[15:13:56] <pcw_home> well looks like they can run in analog velocity mode or step/dir
[15:18:45] <evo4wrx> velocity mode uses a lot less bandwidth doesnt it?
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[15:32:19] <pcw_home> Yes, the drive maintins the setpoint velocity between updates with a high bandwidth loop
[15:32:32] <pcw_home> maintains
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[15:34:58] <evo4wrx> okay so which interface cards should i run with?
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[15:35:38] <evo4wrx> thanks for the information btw ive been madly googling and reading up on your advice
[15:37:36] <pcw_home> well with our stuff the easiest way would probably be analog with encoder feedback (emulated encoder output from drive)
[15:38:36] <pcw_home> step/dir is another possibility but perhaps a bit more complicated to setup with feedback to linuxcnc if thats desires
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[15:39:29] <evo4wrx> the only concern I have is due to the weight of the robotic platform and the backlash induced on the gear set i have no way of compensating unless i place an encoder on the final axis...ie the pivot axis
[15:40:33] <evo4wrx> so the instruction would be given in the interface to move to a particular angle then it would verify that movement by checking back encoder postion
[15:41:07] <evo4wrx> ive used emc2 for a filament winder and the 5i20 card
[15:41:15] <evo4wrx> but thats about the limit of my exposure there
[15:43:06] <evo4wrx> are you from mesa pcw?
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[16:42:14] <exco> trying to figure out my denavit hartenberg parameters for my r15 ... I have no idea what I'm doing ;-)
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[16:54:05] <t12> pcw_home: I tried sniffing the rs485 data from mitsu encoder, however the rs485 usb thing I got annoyingly cant operate at 2.5mbaud, just 2 or 3
[16:54:27] <t12> it can actually read bytes, and theres a pattern, but theres dropout due to the baud errors
[16:55:48] <t12> can rs485 be packet-banged out of the 7i76e UART? Ends up just being repeated requests to read uart registers?
[16:56:32] <pcw_home> is tha data 90 bits in a a row or 9 10 bit characters>
[16:56:42] <pcw_home> the data
[16:57:03] <t12> it is unclear
[16:57:18] <t12> depends on if/how its start/stop bitted? Does that even happen in these cases?
[16:57:19] <pcw_home> if you watch your scope when you rotate the shaft you shoud be able to see unchanging bits
[16:58:18] <t12> https://www.dropbox.com/sc/xjrtfhczsumj6eh/BnpVOse9dd
[16:59:19] <t12> i read that as it sending the binary position and some other state, not BCD or something like that
[17:00:49] <jdh> http://www.saleae.com/logic
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[17:02:32] <pcw_home> Looks like more than 8 bits in the encoder data so it may be more like fanuc (a 90 bit UART in this case)
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[17:02:54] <IchGuckLive> hi all B)
[17:03:27] <t12> that means any given message is always start / 90 bits / stop
[17:03:28] <t12> ?
[17:03:40] <pcw_home> looking at the encoder data while slow going from all ones to zero and back would help
[17:03:47] <pcw_home> slowly
[17:04:53] <t12> are you trying to see if theres fixed bits in the part that encodes the position
[17:04:55] <pcw_home> yes perhaps start 89 data bits and back to idle (stop)
[17:05:49] <pcw_home> Yes to see if its a bunch of 8 bit chars (with start and stop bits each) or a continuous stream
[17:05:55] <t12> ok
[17:05:57] <t12> i'll try and work that out
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[17:06:06] <pcw_home> my bet is continuous
[17:06:09] <t12> maybe i can get the triggering stable and i can just avg it out on the scope
[17:06:32] <pcw_home> That might work
[17:07:06] <pcw_home> if continuous its really similar to Fanuc
[17:07:11] <t12> or i can set up the logic to get it to ttl and do it on the logic analyzer where its sane
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[17:07:31] <t12> from the fpga perspective, does that mean you do a single read into a big register and dump it all out at once
[17:08:38] <pcw_home> well the fanuc interface is basically a 1-96 bit UART
[17:08:53] <pcw_home> so the data is read in 3 32 bit pieces
[17:09:45] <pcw_home> same data order as fanuc (LSb first)
[17:12:48] <pcw_home> It might be possible to add the functionality to support this in the Fanuc interface
[17:12:50] <pcw_home> (mainly add the xmit char option and RS-485 dir bit)
[17:13:18] <pcw_home> baud rate and data length are already programmable
[17:15:31] <t12> gotcha
[17:15:44] <t12> i will proceed with trying to sort out the details of the protocol, and hopefully capture the stuff thats non-position too
[17:16:04] <t12> main blocade being actually getting the data into a computer in a sane way
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[17:24:17] <pcw_home> If i get a chance to play with an encoder I can make a config that can be read with a windows machine (7I43 USB or 7I80 are easiest here)
[17:24:18] <pcw_home> and will print the data in hex and binary
[17:25:09] <pcw_home> What connector do your encoders have? (wondering if the teeny motors have the same encoder)
[17:25:21] <skunkworks_> pcw_home: how has the 7i80 been working for you?
[17:25:44] <pcw_home> its a great config test device
[17:26:11] <skunkworks_> heh
[17:26:15] <pcw_home> since it does not require any special host machine
[17:26:19] <t12> they're some amp 9-pin uh
[17:26:21] <t12> i'll look it up
[17:26:38] <pcw_home> and is much much faster than the USB interfaced cards
[17:27:03] <t12> ok
[17:27:22] <pcw_home> some of the teeny motors on Ebay had the 3x3 amp looking connector
[17:27:23] <skunkworks_> huh - really? is the usb 1.0? theoretically - the usb2 should be faster than 100baseT
[17:27:32] <skunkworks_> *in theory
[17:27:35] <pcw_home> USB is polled
[17:27:44] <skunkworks_> that is cool
[17:27:55] <pcw_home> so you have to wait for the next train...
[17:28:00] <t12> AMP 1-172169-9 and mating part
[17:28:27] <t12> which is a somewhat annoying part to find it turns out
[17:28:47] <t12> i ordered spares, can send them up
[17:29:42] <t12> i have a 7i76e on order also, if its possible to dump from that
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[17:30:45] <pcw_home> maybe... (if the 4 wire mode works)
[17:31:32] <pcw_home> the 7I76Es RS-422 port is 4 wire only (no enable)
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[17:33:17] <t12> 4 wire should work
[17:35:18] <t12> i'll bug you once it shows up about firmware and pulling data from it? I'm assuming you just continuously ask for contents of some registers and reassemble?
[17:37:09] <IchGuckLive> someone got the 7i76E to work on linuxcnc
[17:37:28] <skunkworks_> testing here with current drivers seems to work. I have only been pwm-ing a led..
[17:37:39] <t12> my plan is to do the same
[17:37:46] <pcw_home> you send the request (either a write to a register or timed)
[17:37:48] <pcw_home> wait for data avail and then read the data registers
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[17:38:20] <pcw_home> but I already have program for the fanuc that does that
[17:38:46] <IchGuckLive> skunkworks_: so no stepper jet moving
[17:38:51] <pcw_home> it can easily be hacked for the Misubishi
[17:39:17] <t12> ok
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[17:39:40] <skunkworks_> IchGuckLive: it will probably be used in a servo system.. When we get that far.. (acroloc)
[17:40:14] <pcw_home> I have a Yaskawa motor (no drive) that is probably similar (2 wire usin a firewire connector)
[17:42:16] <pcw_home> but lacking a drive i have no idea what it needs to get a response
[17:42:17] <pcw_home> (its a cute little motor: 400W but the size of a smallish Newa 23 stepper)
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[17:45:27] <t12> yah this one is the same
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[17:45:38] <t12> HC-KFS43
[17:45:43] <t12> i guess thats a bit bigger than a 23
[17:45:49] <t12> but still suprised at density
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[17:48:02] <Jymmm> Monkey Love...
https://fbcdn-video-a.akamaihd.net/hvideo-ak-ash2/v/1244429_10201359085552760_852325538_n.mp4?oh=c8bdf1e69cb009abc43340da98bd5903&oe=525EE938&__gda__=1381952696_03a6e78fd55bf8017c7b092e7b03c22c
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[17:53:42] <IchGuckLive> pcw_home: the omron r7m-a10040 is the best 400W and cheep
[17:54:32] <IchGuckLive> But i shoudt say in 5 Years time i never got any revolution out of the 5 Servo system i bought about 800 Euros of grap
[17:55:16] <IchGuckLive> it turned at one time about a quater of rotation then the drive did fail and never got back out of the Error mode
[17:55:38] <pcw_home> Ebay gambling...
[17:55:41] <IchGuckLive> therfor i stay with stepeprs
[17:55:56] <IchGuckLive> it is indeed
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[17:59:28] <pcw_home> Thats one reason its nice to reverse engineer some of these proprietary encoder protocols
[17:59:29] <pcw_home> makes the stuff more reparable or usable with different drives
[18:00:59] <IchGuckLive> try and error on a servo system is realy expensiv
[18:01:35] <archivist> there will be less error when stuff is reverse engineered
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[18:19:51] <IchGuckLive> im off by
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[19:03:56] <mrsun_> http://www.micro-machine-shop.com/9x20%20Lathe%20Retractable%20Tool%20Bit%20Holder.htm#Retracting_Tool_Bit_Animation nice =)
[19:04:10] <mrsun_> http://www.micro-machine-shop.com/ hes got some real machining porn =)
[19:04:59] <archivist> but he sure knows how to create bad web pages with too many images
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[19:05:47] <mrsun_> :P
[19:06:55] <archivist> something is not completing on that page too
[19:07:59] <archivist> ah took the animation about 2 minutes to load
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[19:36:55] <CaptHindsight> what problems do people generally have with servos? Encoder problems? I rarely use steppers.
[19:38:00] <jdh> probably combining random ebay servos with or without encoders with random ebay drives controlled by whatever they have already or somethign cheap.
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[20:49:31] <andypugh> I am trying to fix a bug in the lcd display component, but I can't actually get my LCD to work.
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[21:04:45] <Tom_itx> but you had it working once
[21:04:54] <t12> man sourcing tiny rubber flat washers is hard
[21:06:16] <t12> maybe i should just make a punch and do my own
[21:08:12] <andypugh> Tom_itx: Yes, I know.
[21:10:04] <_DJ_> gn8
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[21:18:55] <andypugh> There is data on the pins, and the contrast-adjust pin is working, so I just have to guess that the LCD itself has gone bad, I suppose.
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[21:47:25] <CaptHindsight> andypugh: TFT or STN?
[21:51:52] <andypugh> No idea
[21:53:02] <kwallace1> I guess you need an extra LCD for testing.
[21:54:17] <kwallace1> There should be a piece of equipment at work that has an LCD?
[21:54:38] <kwallace1> How far is it to work?
[21:58:37] <PCW> do you want me to try something here (have 7I73 and LCD setup)
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[22:01:49] <andypugh> I have two, but I think I decided one was dead a while ago.
[22:01:58] <andypugh> I just ordred a couple more from eBay
[22:03:39] <andypugh> The ones I have were pretty cheap and look to have a 2001 maunfacturing date
[22:03:58] <kwallace1> I have a pile of old telecomm equipment with 40char x 2 LCDs. I can't use em nor throw them out.
[22:05:02] <kwallace1> Are all probing routines .ngc based?
[22:06:00] <skunkworks_> there might be some remapping ones in python?
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[22:08:22] <kwallace1> Remapping meaning creating a custom M code?
[22:08:32] <CaptHindsight> http://www.microrax.com/ to make even more wobbly machine frames!
[22:12:23] <kwallace1> A good understanding of triangulation could go a long way.
[22:19:57] <CaptHindsight> http://www.muve3d.net/press/product/muve-1-3d-printer/#!prettyPhoto 1/5th the price of a Form1 and just as slow
[22:21:00] <kwallace1> Eeee. More Yodas.
[22:23:09] <CaptHindsight> http://www.3ders.org/articles/20131015-become-the-coolest-geek-with-this-3d-printed-oscilloscope-watch.html at least it's not a Yoda
[22:25:01] <CaptHindsight> 1.28", 128x128 pixels hmm maybe I could get Axis to work on it
[22:25:51] <CaptHindsight> I don't think anyone has ever done (wanted) Linuxcnc on a watch before
[22:29:14] <kwallace1> I think it would be easier to do a pick and place clock on your mill.
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[22:54:14] <andypugh> CaptHindsight: That tiny structural section looks like it could be very useful for the right sort of project
[23:00:50] <CaptHindsight> mini machines
[23:06:00] <CaptHindsight> but I'm sure most here would just machine their own die and extrude their own t-slot in the garage/basement
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[23:34:05] <kwallace1> This is more like it.
http://opensourcemachine.org/
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[23:36:16] <kwallace1> http://opensourcemachine.org/mm2html2/How_to_build_a_multimachine.html
[23:36:39] <CaptHindsight> but can it make a Yoda?
[23:37:18] <andypugh> I think somebody from that project turne dup here a while ago.
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[23:38:22] <CaptHindsight> there is a similar project that uses the other drive train parts as well
[23:38:50] <CaptHindsight> old cars are pretty much everywhere except in Antarctica
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[23:41:12] <CaptHindsight> probably won't catch on since there is no mention of the RPi or an arduino :)
[23:43:34] <andypugh> I am waiting for a UDOO
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[23:44:31] <andypugh> http://www.udoo.org/features/
[23:45:19] <andypugh> A Linux PC with an embedded Arduino. Looks like fun
[23:46:28] <CaptHindsight> Freescale i.MX 6 and Atmel SAM3X8E on the same board
[23:46:57] <CaptHindsight> not shipping yet?
[23:47:00] <andypugh> I don't know what I will use it for, but sounds like an interesting combination.
[23:47:08] <andypugh> Started shipping last week.
[23:47:26] <CaptHindsight> $99-129
[23:47:53] <CaptHindsight> I like the imx6 boards since they have SATA
[23:49:07] <andypugh> A kickstarter that raised 640,000 of ot 27,000 goal.
[23:49:12] <CaptHindsight> "76 Fully Available GPIO" also nice, many boards have limited GPIO or only USB and ethernet
[23:49:50] <kwallace1> I'm getting (borrowing) a new machine tomorrow.
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[23:50:34] <kwallace1> A Tormach 770.
[23:53:23] <andypugh> PCW: It seems like that 8i20 I wasn't sure about gets a clean bill of health.
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[23:54:18] <PCW> Ive forgotten what was wrong
[23:56:50] <CaptHindsight> imx6 + fpga board would be handy as well
[23:57:01] <CaptHindsight> <$100
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[23:59:00] <andypugh> PCW: It looked like one arm of the bridge was down, at some angles I was seeing zero torque.
[23:59:44] <andypugh> But it seems to be fine now, testing with a bldc cfg="n" at 0.05Hz. There was torque at all angles.