#linuxcnc | Logs for 2013-10-14

[00:00:17] <andypugh> awyea: It can be done, but I don't think any of the people who have done it are here.
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[00:00:54] <andypugh> You will probably find the mailing list more help.
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[00:01:21] <andypugh> (And I am not sure that stepconf knows about the BBB, it assumes a parallel port)
[00:03:03] <andypugh> Goodnight chaps
[00:03:15] <awyea> k i'll try the mailing list, thanks
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[01:23:21] <MacGalempsy> evening gents
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[01:27:19] <MacGalempsy> time to unbox this new linux box and get a latency test started
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[01:52:53] <CaptHindsight> MacGalempsy: what cpu and chipset?
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[03:27:33] <MacGalempsy_> CaptHindsight: http://www.ebay.com/itm/310754480663?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649
[03:28:24] <MacGalempsy_> this is my first linux box, so at the moment, I am trying to figure out which version of ubuntu I am running, then download and run the latency test
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[03:54:48] <MacGalempsy_> guys I got this box that has ubuntu 13, but the manual said 8 or 10 would work with linuxcnc. any help with which one is best?
[04:07:21] <jp_mill> 10 should be fine for what you need
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[04:17:24] <xxoxx> hi
[04:17:34] <xxoxx> can you mill with EDM ?
[04:17:38] <MacGalempsy_> ok great, its downloading right now
[04:17:49] <MacGalempsy_> edm is for cutting
[04:17:56] <xxoxx> right
[04:18:01] <MacGalempsy_> xxoxx: there is wire and sinker
[04:18:10] <xxoxx> i wonder what would happen if you cross feed on a sinker
[04:18:12] <MacGalempsy_> wire will cut
[04:18:53] <MacGalempsy_> so with the sinker, you cut the electrode, then essentially shock away the metal within a fluid bath
[04:19:07] <xxoxx> right. I have a sinker, but it only goes up and down
[04:19:17] <xxoxx> kind of like a jig bore
[04:19:40] <MacGalempsy_> i think the process is too slow for "milling"
[04:20:09] <MacGalempsy_> that being said, I only seen youtube videos on it
[04:20:49] <xxoxx> right
[04:21:22] <xxoxx> i was consider cases for micro-machining, where tiny bits would be too weak
[04:22:09] <xxoxx> But I can't think of ways to accurately know the Z position of the tip
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[04:35:09] <toastyde1th> xxoxx, you can feed in any direction you have a nervous control in
[04:35:43] <toastyde1th> there is edm turning, milling, grinding, etc
[04:35:53] <toastyde1th> edm grinding is fucking bizarre but whatever
[04:36:06] <toastyde1th> they tend to be custom built, custom controlled machines
[04:37:00] <xxoxx> would like to custom build a desktop edm mill
[04:37:11] <xxoxx> for fine hobby grade work
[04:37:22] <toastyde1th> the feed rate is controlled by the current to the electrode, not by any other factor
[04:37:27] <toastyde1th> there is no following error
[04:37:41] <toastyde1th> well, there is, but nobody cares about it or tracks it
[04:39:19] <toastyde1th> the neat thing about edm milling/grinding is that since the tool revolves, you can redress the electrode
[04:39:42] <xxoxx> redress electrode?
[04:39:54] <toastyde1th> so you have a spinning carbon or copper cylinder
[04:40:06] <toastyde1th> and somewhere in the workspace you have a diamond tool
[04:40:32] <toastyde1th> and when you finish your roughing pass, you just take the electrode over to the cutting tool and shave some off
[04:40:49] <toastyde1th> you now know your tool diameter to the limits of your ability to measure
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[04:40:56] <toastyde1th> just like on a grinder
[04:41:30] <xxoxx> neat...
[04:41:33] <xxoxx> i see
[04:41:34] <toastyde1th> also, if you're really going to do this, look up jig grinders.
[04:41:48] <xxoxx> you could do this per pass, constantly updating tool info
[04:41:50] <toastyde1th> they have an additional spindle axis, and if you're going to go balls to the wall and create a machine THIS custom
[04:41:59] <xxoxx> ok
[04:42:02] <toastyde1th> you might as well include all the neat accuracy features of a jig grinder
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[04:42:19] <MacGalempsy_> so does the linuxCNC package install the operating system, too
[04:42:20] <MacGalempsy_> ?
[04:42:21] <xxoxx> yeah. would be very useful
[04:42:44] <xxoxx> MacGalempsy_, yeah. linux and all
[04:43:08] <xxoxx> ok jig grinder.... food for thought...
[04:43:40] <toastyde1th> if you want to put a hole in something
[04:43:52] <toastyde1th> a jig grinder is pretty much the best way to do it
[04:43:58] <toastyde1th> from an accuracy standpoint
[04:44:56] <xxoxx> yeah. i am familiar with jig bore
[04:44:56] <toastyde1th> some methods will get you more cylindrical, others will position a little better
[04:44:58] <toastyde1th> k
[04:45:08] <xxoxx> ok
[04:45:09] <MacGalempsy_> oh, so right now, I am loading the 10.4 from the ubuntu archives, but that iis overwritten after loading linuxcnc?
[04:46:01] <xxoxx> MacGalempsy, i just boot off the ISO disk
[04:46:13] <xxoxx> fresh install and all
[04:46:27] <xxoxx> dedicated computer for each machine
[04:46:28] <MacGalempsy_> ok. I am new to linux. this is my first hour of using it
[04:46:41] <xxoxx> ok
[04:46:43] <MacGalempsy_> the computer showed up with it preinstalled
[04:47:05] <MacGalempsy_> so now I am downloading the linuxcnc package and will burn the iso to disk
[04:48:26] <xxoxx> anybody played around with arduino for motion control ?
[04:48:43] <MacGalempsy_> xxoxx: I use arduino on my 3d printer
[04:49:04] <MacGalempsy_> but the firmware calibration is kind of a pita
[04:51:59] <MacGalempsy_> a good stepper firmware is marlin, it can be found on github
[05:00:45] <xxoxx> yeah
[05:01:25] <xxoxx> I was looking into GRBL
[05:01:54] <xxoxx> works with g-code
[05:02:19] <archivist> use beaglebone black and linuxcnc
[05:03:04] <archivist> fariuino stuff is cripple wear
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[05:09:53] <xxoxx> ok
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[05:39:52] <MacGalempsy_> irons
[05:40:16] <MacGalempsy_> oops
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[05:47:28] <MacGalempsy_> can someone tell me the difference between the base thread and servo thread in the latency test?
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[06:54:19] <Cylly> mornin'
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[06:57:52] <MacGalempsy> hello
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[09:13:32] <_DJ_> moin
[09:19:07] <archivist> hmm lump for retrofit 261304731150
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[10:12:30] <xxoxx> anbody has done retrofit to a Harbor Freight SIEG machine ?
[10:12:59] <archivist> I do believe many have
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[10:13:53] <xxoxx> anbody here had done that ?
[10:14:28] <xxoxx> I got the baby lathe, mini lathe, and the U1 horizontal mill
[10:14:42] <xxoxx> thinking about retrofiting the U1
[10:23:48] <archivist> here are some http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?Case_Studies
[10:24:16] <xxoxx> danke schon
[10:24:43] <xxoxx> this is excellent
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[10:54:30] <MacGalempsy> guys I am trying to figure out if I will need an additional mesa card because the spindle is ac servo
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[12:09:47] <archivist> MacGalempsy, probably not if you can get a 0-10v output to control a vfd(inverter)
[12:11:34] <archivist> also simple to convert pwm to 0-10v
[12:11:47] <MacGalempsy> archivist: thanks. it should definately have a vfd in the cabinet. just wanted to make sure nothing else needed to be ordered
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[12:12:46] <archivist> just check your docs for available signals and what the vfd needs, like 0-10v and a direction and an enable
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[12:17:16] <MacGalempsy> that may be tought, as there arent any docs
[12:17:41] <archivist> you have it yet?
[12:17:49] <MacGalempsy> it will be here tomorrow
[12:18:39] <MacGalempsy> the little bit of documentation I could scrounge through said it had an ac servo spindle motor
[12:18:43] <MacGalempsy> 2hp
[12:19:52] <archivist> 2 horse should throw chips some distance
[12:20:14] <MacGalempsy> its in a box already
[12:20:33] <archivist> covers get in the way :)
[12:20:36] <MacGalempsy> didnt want any chips getting on my cars
[12:20:54] <archivist> cars can live outdoors
[12:21:12] <MacGalempsy> one of them can, the other gets preferential indoor treatment
[12:21:53] <jdh> if you aren't sleeping with it, it can live outdoors.
[12:22:11] <MacGalempsy> not when it was 200k new
[12:22:23] <archivist> my Southbend lathe helped keep my dads car out :)
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[13:55:11] <Tom_itx> if you're afraid to use it you spent to much on int
[13:55:13] <Tom_itx> it*
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[15:26:19] <dosas> hi i have a question concerning VFDs or motor controls in general, since my friend and me want to build a mill we are looking for spindles and we found thsi kress http://www.cnc-plus.de/Fraesmotoren---Zubehoer/Fraesmotoren/Kress-FME-1-1050--5-000-25-000-1-min--Fraesspindel.html?XTCsid=29ba6bda8fbe6841736afc0ae8d43443 the question is can you control these digital
[15:27:04] <dosas> or does anyone know how these are build which kind of motor i read that vfd can only drive three phase motors but this is clearly a single phase motor
[15:27:38] <dosas> the datasheet is non existent
[15:27:48] <Loetmichel> donkey: these have an internal circut with constant rpm
[15:28:04] <Loetmichel> but no external input: so only at the pot in front of iot
[15:28:20] <Loetmichel> ... there are some hacks which controls these pots digital
[15:28:33] <Loetmichel> but these are hacks andm reqwuire soldering
[15:28:33] <archivist> dosas, what are you cutting anyway
[15:28:41] <Loetmichel> dosas
[15:28:48] <dosas> we want to do wood and aluminum
[15:29:22] <Loetmichel> these are series wound-motors
[15:29:34] <dosas> but is it possible to build a low cost VFD for this by regulating the voltage that the spindle gets
[15:29:47] <Loetmichel> theys can becontrolled with a power controller like a vacuum cleaner
[15:29:49] <dosas> do you know the german name
[15:30:22] <Loetmichel> but the kress have electrnics inside and a rotational inductor, so they can deliver constant rpm
[15:30:25] <archivist> series wound is a high speed design, are the bearings up to aluminium work
[15:30:48] <Loetmichel> dosas: reihenschlussmotor
[15:30:53] <dosas> thanks
[15:31:19] <Loetmichel> und man kann die mit einem normalen dimmer für induktive lasten steuern. aber nur wenn das poti auf "vollgas" ist sonst raucht die interne elektronik an
[15:31:23] <Loetmichel> (sorry for german)
[15:31:29] <dosas> Loetmichel: so a series wound motor could be controlled wiht this http://www.electronica.mk/all_articles/Miscellaneous/2012/Variable_Speed_AC_Motor_U2008B/U2008B.html ?
[15:31:38] <dosas> np
[15:31:56] <dosas> or like you said with a simple dimmer
[15:31:58] <archivist> I cant see one of those coping with flood cooling of the aluminium that would be needed at the speed they run
[15:32:14] <dosas> yes they run too fast
[15:32:18] <dosas> that is the problem
[15:32:31] <Loetmichel> no, the link is for a ac motor, kress have "all power" motors
[15:32:38] <Loetmichel> i.e, ac AND dc
[15:33:07] <Loetmichel> dosas: a dimmer that can cope with inductors
[15:33:22] <dosas> okay
[15:33:54] <dosas> does anyone know a spource where i can buy thesse motors
[15:34:06] <dosas> i have seen diy spindles with brushless motors
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[15:34:23] <dosas> but they seem too have not enough power
[15:34:31] <dosas> and need high current
[15:34:45] <archivist> there are the chinese spindles with included vfd
[15:35:07] <Loetmichel> dosas: http://www.conrad.de/ce/de/product/191343/
[15:35:26] <Loetmichel> ... but you loose the ability to stabilize the rpm
[15:35:42] <Loetmichel> better way is to change the internal motor electonics
[15:36:29] <dosas> my favorit would be a diy spindle with a suitable motor and drive
[15:36:30] <Loetmichel> why is it so problematic to use the internal regulator?
[15:36:40] <Loetmichel> it can go down as low as 10krpm
[15:36:42] <dosas> because you have to do it by hand
[15:36:49] <Loetmichel> and have full torque there
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[15:37:58] <dosas> we are probably going to buy one of the kress spindles
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[15:38:18] <dosas> but since i'm new to this i would like to know the possibilities
[15:38:24] <dosas> not the easiest solution
[15:38:36] <Loetmichel> dosas: buy the kress for statrters
[15:38:54] <dosas> so but if i want to add an encoder
[15:38:57] <dosas> the kress sucks
[15:39:08] <dosas> and a three phase motor is way to big
[15:39:08] <Loetmichel> and after a while use the kress to make an approbioate holder for a chinese watercooled spindlle with vfd and order it ;-)
[15:39:35] <dosas> do you have any links
[15:39:37] <Loetmichel> loke i did ;-)
[15:39:38] <archivist> I used a lathe headstock a 1hp 3ph motor a vfd and belt to spindle
[15:39:40] <dosas> what are you guys using
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[15:40:05] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=12518
[15:40:16] <Loetmichel> old spindle milling holders for the new...
[15:40:25] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=12527
[15:40:35] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=12530
[15:40:37] <Loetmichel> new ;-9
[15:41:06] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=12569
[15:41:10] <archivist> http://www.archivist.info/cnc/stage8/IMG_0268.JPG shows the vfd and motor
[15:42:45] <archivist> from the other side so you can see the hobbymat parentage http://www.archivist.info/cnc/stage8/IMG_0269.JPG
[15:43:42] <dosas> yeah that is a different design
[15:44:17] <archivist> been modded a bit since then
[15:44:25] <dosas> so there is little chance to drive a kress like spindle with diy circuitry and motor?
[15:45:04] <archivist> there is plenty of chance, but is it wise
[15:46:02] <dosas> the problem i'm having at the time si find motors that can be driven by 1 phase and have appropriate power
[15:46:14] <dosas> but they must be out there somewhere kress has them
[15:46:28] <archivist> the vfd converts 240 single to 3ph
[15:46:38] <dosas> if you have the kress there is no room for extension
[15:46:52] <dosas> but then i need a three phase motor
[15:47:08] <archivist> scrap yard
[15:47:24] <dosas> yeah but they are to big for our setup
[15:47:28] <dosas> unless we chane it
[15:47:31] <archivist> or some begging
[15:47:44] <dosas> we have a the motor moving on the z and x axis
[15:47:52] <dosas> not only z like you guys
[15:48:18] <archivist> small screaming series wound motors rely on the speed for cooling too
[15:50:23] <archivist> so if you slow them down too much they lose torque and cooling
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[15:54:03] <dosas> so one would have too add cooling
[15:54:49] <archivist> or use something better
[15:55:19] <dosas> so the way to go is 3ph with vfd
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[15:55:33] <dosas> the vfd can be controlle dvia modbus then?
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[15:57:54] <dosas> the 3ph motor in the china spindle from Loetmichl looks really small, the thing that really bugs me
[15:58:10] <dosas> that i cannot fidn a source to buy these motors online
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[16:02:04] <dosas> can anyone of you recommend a vfd
[16:02:35] <jdh> what color do you want?
[16:02:59] <dosas> pink ;) no just kidding color really doesn't amtter
[16:03:17] <dosas> as cheap as possible
[16:04:27] <jdh> http://tinyurl.com/k5vhk52
[16:05:14] <dosas> since i'm located in germany shipping might be a bit expensive for these
[16:05:54] <dosas> wow but the prices look great
[16:06:25] <Loetmichel> dosas: as a frequent user of kress in the work enviroment: 1 year of 8hrs a day and the be4arings are done for
[16:06:38] <Loetmichel> have killed at least 5 kress this way
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[16:06:49] <jdh> Dig: that looks pretty much like everywhere.
[16:07:11] <dosas> i only want to use it on the weekends ;)
[16:07:59] <Loetmichel> dosas: http://www.ebay.de/itm/WATER-COOLED-SPINDLE-MOTOR-1-5-KW-INVERTER-VFD-1-5KW-VARIABLE-FREQUENCY-DRIVE-bf-/370861580526?pt=Motoren_Getriebe&hash=item565912a0ee
[16:08:14] <Loetmichel> thats the price of two kress
[16:08:27] <Loetmichel> and you will have something lasting your hobby lifetime ;-)
[16:08:43] <Loetmichel> and its shipped from GB, so no customs/taxes
[16:09:18] <dosas> wow but the company is not british for sure
[16:09:29] <dosas> three times useful time than ordinary spindle moto
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[16:11:49] <dosas> what i wanted to ask: if it comes to an emergency stop how do i deal with the current from the spindle
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[16:12:18] <Loetmichel> company is chinese for sure
[16:12:41] <Loetmichel> thats what an breaking resistor is for ;-)
[16:13:03] <dosas> but that is not included in the vfd
[16:13:30] <Loetmichel> no, i have used 500W or bigger "baufluter" as resistors
[16:13:35] <Loetmichel> works like a charm ;-)
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[16:14:05] <dosas> with or wwithout lamp
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[16:15:19] <Loetmichel> http://www.rakuten.de/produkt/vorel-halogenstrahler-aussen-fluter-spot-bau-strahler-500-watt-1042639275.html
[16:15:29] <Loetmichel> the lamp IS the resistor...
[16:15:39] <dosas> lol
[16:15:45] <dosas> that is a cool solution
[16:15:54] <Loetmichel> oh. you meant: only the stick inside or the whole lamp?
[16:16:15] <Loetmichel> i would reccomend the whole lamp, for heat/touching safety
[16:16:22] <dosas> you use the whole lamp right
[16:16:27] <archivist> and the holder
[16:16:32] <dosas> :D
[16:16:35] <dosas> okay
[16:16:50] <dosas> you guys know about any write ups or good documentation on thsi subject
[16:17:12] <Loetmichel> not really
[16:17:33] <Loetmichel> all first hand experience ... i should write a book ;-)
[16:17:48] <dispose> Does anyone have any experiences with TB6560 ?
[16:17:49] <dosas> or a webpage
[16:18:04] <jdh> everyone buys a TB6560 once
[16:18:17] <archivist> then they break them :)
[16:18:29] <archivist> actually I didnt
[16:18:43] <jdh> or they get tired of hearing them squeal
[16:19:10] <dosas> anyone ever made a diy VFD
[16:19:46] <Loetmichel> jdh: i have about 10 in reserve and about 20 in use in some machinery
[16:19:48] <dosas> becuase for me they always seem to be a bit overkill
[16:20:00] <Loetmichel> if you know what you do they are great cheap Drivers
[16:20:00] <archivist> dosas, there is one who did lurk in here who made his own bldc drivers
[16:20:16] <dosas> did he document it
[16:20:25] <Loetmichel> just a little prone to "letz the magic smoke out " when a mishap happens
[16:20:37] <dosas> why not\
[16:20:40] <dispose> What cable should I use from drivers to steppers?
[16:20:45] <dosas> no there is jsut so mcuh in a vfd i do not need
[16:20:51] <dosas> display
[16:20:54] <dosas> pid
[16:21:51] <archivist> dosas, http://www.delorie.com/electronics/bldc/
[16:21:52] <dosas> i just like to tinker
[16:22:08] <Loetmichel> dispose: something labeled "for energy chain use"
[16:22:10] <dosas> thanks archivist that looks great
[16:22:38] <Loetmichel> ... and shielded if possible
[16:22:43] <archivist> dosas, and also ask andypugh about bldc drivers
[16:22:58] <dosas> mayby i will address the mailing list
[16:23:40] <dosas> this is a control for stepper motors
[16:24:10] <dosas> no sorry
[16:24:54] <dispose> I used FTP and I am getting a lot of interferences. Steppers can stay still.
[16:25:14] <dispose> sorry can't stay still.
[16:30:45] <dispose> Is it allright with TB6560 when steppers does strange noise also when they are mooving?
[16:31:36] <archivist> you can change the frequency of the oscillator to improve noise
[16:32:07] <jdh> or, you can buy better drivers.
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[16:33:36] <dispose> What is the good frequency?
[16:33:59] <archivist> one you cannot hear maybe
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[16:37:45] <dispose> My first idea was to buy a shielded cable.
[16:40:16] <dispose> I thing whole noise is creating back induction and that makes my inteferences into steppers.
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[16:53:57] <archivist> screening helps electrical noise
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[16:54:33] <IchGuckLive> hi all
[16:57:06] <_DJ_> hi live-gucker
[16:57:14] <IchGuckLive> B)
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[17:09:04] <dispose> My Idea is to buy two shielded cables. For output A and A' is going to be one cable and for output B with B' I am going touse second cable. I hope that this will work... I thought that ferrite cams will solve the problem on FTP what I used but it did't work so well as I expeced.
[17:10:00] <IchGuckLive> dispose: encoder or stepper a a'
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[17:11:01] <IchGuckLive> oh i read the lods stepers power cable
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[17:11:21] <IchGuckLive> so use oilsheelded cable 0.1mm/A
[17:11:55] <IchGuckLive> on tb6560 you might need to change the PF capacitor on the bottom to get your best performance
[17:11:59] <dispose> stepper driver TB6560
[17:12:12] <IchGuckLive> i got about 15 of this in use
[17:12:21] <IchGuckLive> but i modified all
[17:12:37] <IchGuckLive> dispose: blue or ref board
[17:12:46] <IchGuckLive> red
[17:13:15] <IchGuckLive> dispose: USA or Europ ..Asia
[17:13:32] <ktchk> IchGuckLive: I have 2 "http://postimg.org/image/j8v440n6v/2e0cf3fc/" what can i do with it?
[17:14:01] <dispose> Europ
[17:14:10] <_DJ_> ktchk, you can give them to me :-D
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[17:14:27] <IchGuckLive> ktchk: this the hell of speed on servo
[17:14:31] <ktchk> ok shipping to where....
[17:14:46] <IchGuckLive> dispose: im in Germany Kaiserslautern
[17:14:48] <_DJ_> to germany
[17:15:05] <IchGuckLive> _DJ_: you are the bastard
[17:15:19] <_DJ_> huhm? what? why?
[17:15:39] <_DJ_> okay, ktchk, give them to IchGuckLive...
[17:15:41] <IchGuckLive> as you try to steal the helldrivers
[17:16:08] <IchGuckLive> _DJ_: let him build his first lightspeed mill
[17:16:08] <_DJ_> sorry, didnt know
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[17:18:05] <_DJ_> ktchk, where are you from?
[17:18:07] <IchGuckLive> dispose: http://www.youtube.com/user/magic33de/videos
[17:18:11] <ktchk> HK
[17:18:15] <IchGuckLive> _DJ_: HK
[17:18:25] <_DJ_> hongkong?
[17:18:29] <IchGuckLive> he is the man to know for all good stuff
[17:19:07] <ktchk> The screw is 50mm per turn
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[17:20:37] <IchGuckLive> i see
[17:20:45] <IchGuckLive> therfor its a hell of speed
[17:21:03] <IchGuckLive> if you go for 3000rmp
[17:21:48] <ktchk> what for can nor cut in that speed
[17:21:50] <IchGuckLive> then you reatch a 0.025accuracy
[17:22:41] <ktchk> I will put a stepper motor with 5:1 harmonic gear
[17:22:48] <IchGuckLive> i guss on 2500max speed you reatch a 12.5m/min at full tourch
[17:23:13] <IchGuckLive> you told me you go for servo
[17:23:40] <ktchk> too much money put in for speed that i can not use
[17:23:54] <IchGuckLive> ok up to you
[17:24:17] <ktchk> i still have the servo motor
[17:24:42] <IchGuckLive> so 400steps/turn times 5 gives you 2000steps per rev Spindle
[17:24:56] <IchGuckLive> and you are at 0.025mm/step
[17:25:07] <IchGuckLive> speed depends on driver
[17:25:15] <ktchk> 200 step motor
[17:25:27] <IchGuckLive> i gess you can reatch 6m/min and more
[17:25:44] <ktchk> make a cnc lathe?
[17:25:48] <IchGuckLive> ktchk: your stepper will be driven in halfstep mode
[17:25:59] <ktchk> yes
[17:26:08] <IchGuckLive> so its 400 not 200
[17:26:30] <IchGuckLive> if you fees the tourch is good to go 800 you can get 0.0125
[17:26:40] <IchGuckLive> at 4m/min
[17:26:49] <dispose> Which capacitor I should change?
[17:27:23] <IchGuckLive> dispose: on the bottom there is only one on the TB6560 chip
[17:27:30] <IchGuckLive> this is a 1000pf
[17:27:36] <IchGuckLive> change it to 150pf
[17:28:54] <IchGuckLive> http://www.homediystuff.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/TD6560CNCdriverboardtracks.jpg
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[17:29:39] <ktchk> IchGuckLive: the 6560 I drive it with linuxcnc and found if invert the signal it works or other wise not
[17:29:45] <IchGuckLive> dispose: the ones next to the 4th top leg
[17:29:56] <dispose> I made my driver acording to this:http://www.cuteminds.com/index.php/en/tb6560ahq
[17:30:21] <dispose> Plus I add some proction diodes.
[17:31:20] <IchGuckLive> dispose: the protection diodes in the chip are mutch better then the outside you can pop all 4 diodes
[17:31:33] <dispose> I expect that I should change the 330 pF capacitor which should set the frequency...
[17:32:03] <IchGuckLive> use 150pf
[17:32:19] <IchGuckLive> and if you go diodes use UFD
[17:32:35] <IchGuckLive> i changed one board to UFD5407
[17:32:39] <dispose> will it help with noise?
[17:33:10] <IchGuckLive> noice disapear at 150pf
[17:33:20] <IchGuckLive> no noice at all at the board
[17:34:21] <IchGuckLive> dont forget to realy cool the chip it will stand only seconds if cooling does not work
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[17:36:23] <IchGuckLive> dispose: why are you doing it yourself and starting with this "crap"
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[17:37:04] <IchGuckLive> dispose: if you are in germany 2 you youdt consider a leadshine that makes you happy
[17:37:53] <IchGuckLive> 48V and up to 5.6A at 8Nm steppers
[17:39:47] <dispose> IchGuckLive: Next time believe me I will better buy the new driver.
[17:40:35] <IchGuckLive> its not to late as it yust turs 50Euros into crap i guess
[17:43:15] <dispose> IchGuckLive: If nothing helps I buy a new driver.
[17:43:41] <IchGuckLive> driver is ok it works 1000times a day as it is soald worldwide
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[17:44:31] <IchGuckLive> dispose: what is your spindle tread
[17:48:18] <dispose> IchGuckLive: In one video I saw one man who told about that 50 euros driver that it was bargain of his life. :-)
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[17:48:51] <IchGuckLive> the tb6560 ?
[17:49:47] <dispose> IchGuckLive: use metric M8 rod I thing. It's going to be slow. I know...
[17:51:09] <IchGuckLive> why not TR12x3
[17:51:19] <IchGuckLive> or better TR 16x4
[17:51:24] <IchGuckLive> its so cheep
[17:51:44] <dispose> Something cheap on ebay. Perhabs TB6560.. I don't know...
[17:53:04] <IchGuckLive> witch country are you in
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[17:54:35] <dispose> In the middle of Europe
[17:56:20] <IchGuckLive> ok so i use this http://stores.ebay.de/Metallbau-Pietrzak
[18:00:59] <dispose> IchGuckLive: Thanks. My CNC doesn't cost me more that 100 euros whole to be build. Maybe later I invest more money to improve my CNC...
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[18:02:22] <IchGuckLive> it will run that way you make it with a big backlash and only a view 100mm/min on M8
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[18:07:24] <dispose> All you helped me is that I have to change the capacitor to have higher freqency on TB6560. What else can I do to stop interferences driving my stppers motors mad?
[18:08:12] <archivist> fix grounding and make sure of your pullups from the parallel port
[18:08:26] <archivist> and have you got opto isolators
[18:09:47] <dispose> archivist: No, I don't have them.
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[18:11:04] <archivist> look at how break out boards isolate the PC ground from the noisy grounds of the stepper systems
[18:13:03] <dispose> All right, but I dont thing that the problem is on inputs of my drivers.
[18:13:19] <archivist> you should think
[18:13:44] <archivist> also scope the signals to check
[18:14:35] <IchGuckLive> dispose: use 4x0.5mm² cables oilflex
[18:14:49] <IchGuckLive> at 24V
[18:15:03] <IchGuckLive> 12V is not a good voltige 24 Min
[18:15:14] <IchGuckLive> i, off by till tomorrow
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[18:15:41] <dispose> I know abut opto insulation. I know that like this I am risking damaging everything from PC to drivers. Maybe latter I will add them...
[18:16:17] <ktchk> did you use stepwise to test the driver?
[18:16:18] <archivist> the isolation also helps with electrical noise
[18:16:56] <archivist> poor levels from the parallel port (pull ups) will also make you more noise prone
[18:16:56] <ktchk> stepconf wizard
[18:18:53] <dispose> I did't test it yet, but believe that problem isn't on inputs.
[18:19:19] <archivist> how can you believe something without testing!
[18:19:28] <archivist> never assume
[18:19:57] <dispose> Give me 5min...
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[18:21:07] <archivist> by the way, that is where noise was getting into my stepper drivers
[18:21:22] <archivist> I learned the hard way
[18:22:13] <archivist> I added buffers to drive the optos properly from the parallel port
[18:23:32] <ktchk> use stepconf wizard and try to inverse step signal see if one way ok one way not
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[18:26:43] <dispose> Now I tested the drivers when I had disconected whole LPT. When there aren't any ones and ziroes on inputs, motors should be quet i thing. Motors instad to be quiet are a rumbling...
[18:28:22] <archivist> open inputs floating will cause random movement unless pulled high or low
[18:28:34] <dispose> I don't have a scope. That would give me the answer immidiatelly.
[18:29:00] <archivist> noise with open inputs is expected
[18:29:39] <archivist> you need electrically stable levels on the inputs
[18:30:30] <dispose> All right then why nothing change when I connect back LPT and on the inputs are zeroes?
[18:31:01] <archivist> do you have any pullups
[18:31:01] <ktchk> power supply noise
[18:31:23] <archivist> some connections and modes are open collector
[18:31:41] <archivist> you need external pullups to 5v
[18:32:22] <dispose> Bad filtred power supply is also my opinion.
[18:32:59] <archivist> do you understand open collector?
[18:34:18] <dispose> archivist: Yes, open collector I understand.
[18:35:12] <archivist> some pins can be or are open collector on the parallel port, do you have pull ups for those
[18:36:32] <dispose> archivist: Yes, I have pull ups from those.
[18:36:51] <archivist> value?
[18:37:09] <archivist> and to what voltage
[18:39:24] <dispose> archivist? I don't know if I understud you well. On output of LPT are 5V there are open colectors I thing.
[18:40:15] <ktchk> from usb get a 5v there
[18:40:19] <archivist> so is this statement right or not <dispose> archivist: Yes, I have pull ups from those.
[18:41:11] <archivist> the circuit you linked has no pull ups on the input lines
[18:43:21] <dispose> archivist: Thanks for helping me... My inputs on drivers are conected directly into LPT...
[18:43:45] <archivist> so no pullups as I thought
[18:44:29] <archivist> add pull ups to 5v on the inputs to see if that cures it (2-3k ohms )
[18:48:01] <dispose> archivist: You mean to conect from output on LPT 2-3k ohms resistor to +5V?
[18:48:51] <archivist> you can do it near the chips, you can then unplug like you did before and it should be quiet
[18:49:54] <archivist> also if you have the enables commoned you only need one resistor
[18:52:36] <dispose> All right. Thanks, I can try it.
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[19:02:13] <dispose> I thing that there is the frequency always going into stepper motors. The frequency in doing ON and OFF I beliewe that this is what makes back induction into the drivers, limits...
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[19:06:27] <dispose> and cause the interference.
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[20:09:42] <CaptHindsight> http://www.definitions.net/definition/back+induction
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[20:20:26] <andypugh> I just had a wacky idea/.
[20:20:46] <andypugh> My tools live in a rack. It's a 4x8 array.
[20:21:03] <andypugh> The 7i73 can handle a 4x8 matrix rather nicely.
[20:21:35] <andypugh> I could auto-detect which hole didn't have a tool in, and perform automatic tool offset allocation..
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[20:34:00] <PCW> Thats a lot of switches though I guess OPTOs would work
[20:37:57] <andypugh> I was thinking terminals each side of the holes.
[20:38:20] <andypugh> But, of course, that won't work.
[20:38:41] <andypugh> Needs to be NC switches to detect missing tools.
[20:39:32] <PCW> yeah you need open for tools in place
[20:40:44] <PCW> a 7I70 would also do , allow closed for tool in place (and allow 24V signaling)
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[20:57:01] <kwallace1> Does anyone have a favorite Weller TC201 tip?
[20:57:27] <andypugh> I almost never change mine, so i guess so.
[20:57:44] <andypugh> Pencil-point 7 I think it is.
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[21:00:28] <kwallace1> I'm used to fat tips, but can't use them much any more.
[21:01:48] <kwallace1> ? http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/PTF7/PTF7-ND/251736
[21:03:25] <kwallace1> This one is pointy, http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/PTS7/PTS7-ND/251740
[21:04:21] <kwallace1> I need to do some surface mount parts.
[21:04:27] <andypugh> The one I have in there says PT1-P on it
[21:05:10] <andypugh> kwallace1: http://www.amazon.com/Waring-WTO450-Professional-Toaster-Stainless/dp/B006CR6W2A
[21:05:34] <andypugh> (That's what I did the RPi breakouts with)
[21:05:53] <kwallace1> Yeah, I need that too.
[21:06:02] <PCW> I dont actually like pointy tips that much as they are more likely to damage the board/pads/traces
[21:06:05] <andypugh> The GTL2000 was just never going to work with an iron
[21:06:24] <andypugh> It seems to take the heat longer to get down them too.
[21:06:47] <PCW> well I should say I am more likely to do damage with them
[21:07:15] <kwallace1> 700 or 800 degree?
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[21:07:59] <kwallace1> What does the lead free solder need?
[21:08:10] <andypugh> I seem to be using number 7
[21:08:29] <andypugh> But then don't look to me for l33t soldering skillz
[21:08:52] <andypugh> So, what the heck is going on here? http://imagebin.org/273679
[21:09:31] <cradek> hahaha
[21:09:36] <andypugh> The buttons all have different names in the glade editor, but not when loaded into a GUI.
[21:09:48] <cradek> reminds me of http://timeguy.com/cradek-files/emc/homehomehomehome.png
[21:10:22] <andypugh> Yeah, but at least all you buttons have different names..
[21:10:48] <cradek> jepler's law says: if you find yourself making a grid of 32 buttons you may need to rethink your UI design
[21:10:59] <andypugh> I may change the buttons to describe the tools when things settle down, but the layout matches my tool rack
[21:11:41] <andypugh> So it's one of them skuemorphs.
[21:12:02] <cradek> the things apple people have feels about?
[21:12:14] <andypugh> They have gone right off them now.
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[21:12:29] <cradek> you could get a sharpie or a dymo and put numeric labels on the pockets...
[21:13:01] <andypugh> I have that too.
[21:13:36] <Tom_itx> kwallace1, i may have those weller tips
[21:13:39] <andypugh> The whole point is to get away from having to bring up the keyboards and type a number in.
[21:13:53] <cradek> keyboards?
[21:14:10] <andypugh> Or the Toucjy MDI
[21:14:15] <andypugh> Or whateber
[21:14:23] <cradek> but the touchy mdi is a thing of beauty
[21:14:23] <andypugh> I can't be trusted with a keyboard.
[21:14:33] <andypugh> It's good, I like it.
[21:15:15] <Tom_itx> kwallace1, i've got 700F and 800F tips, pencil style for smaller smt stuff and flat tip
[21:15:22] <andypugh> But I don't want to type M6 T22 G43 on it every time I change a tool. Because all that ever changes is the tool number part
[21:15:28] <Tom_itx> 800F mostly for RoHS
[21:15:53] <andypugh> I think I am still using my large reel of poison.
[21:16:35] <andypugh> Anyway, apart from issues of GUI design, any ideas why the buttons all have the same caption (except, strangely, for one of them)
[21:16:39] <cradek> I recently bought a large reel of poison because it actually works to stick things together
[21:17:25] <cradek> sorry, I have no idea
[21:18:02] NickParker|2 is now known as NickParker
[21:18:19] <Tom_itx> kwallace1, i use PTF7 for some stuff (mostly deslodering) and PTS7 for smt stuff
[21:19:13] <andypugh> Is there a preferred format for GladeVCP panels? Libglade ot GtkBuilder? 2.16? 2.8?
[21:19:43] <kwallace1> Digikey has a lot of the PTF7 and PTS7 in stock, so they must be popular.
[21:19:57] <Tom_itx> they are
[21:20:00] <andypugh> Or they have never sold any...
[21:20:12] <Tom_itx> i'd get 700 and 800F in case you have to desloder some RoHS stuff
[21:20:20] <Tom_itx> it's alot easier with the hotter tip
[21:20:34] <Tom_itx> i've had the same tip for years
[21:20:46] <kwallace1> They aren't that expensive either.
[21:21:04] <Tom_itx> i'd also look for a felt tip pen with flux
[21:21:14] <kwallace1> I've lived with the wrong tips for years.
[21:21:15] <Tom_itx> they don't make the one i have anymore but there are others
[21:21:32] <Tom_itx> i'd get each of those in both temps
[21:21:38] <Tom_itx> then you should be set
[21:21:53] <kwallace1> Cool .... er hot.
[21:22:05] <Tom_itx> i've got a couple PTA7's but haven't used them yet
[21:22:08] <Tom_itx> conical i believe
[21:22:44] <Tom_itx> not much difference in that and the PTF7 though
[21:24:48] <kwallace1> andypugh: I thought GtkBuilder is the prefered, or whatever comes up as the default.
[21:25:25] <kwallace1> Is it common to file the tips?
[21:25:30] <Tom_itx> never
[21:25:33] <Tom_itx> i don't
[21:25:42] <Tom_itx> you will file thru the plating and ruin it
[21:25:57] <Tom_itx> use a wet sponge
[21:26:16] <Tom_itx> i've never had to
[21:26:41] <kwallace1> I seem to recall filing tips back when irons where as big as a finger.
[21:27:04] <andypugh> Probably back before iron plating.
[21:27:05] <Tom_itx> i've gone thru a RS iron in one evening
[21:27:13] <Tom_itx> cheapo iron
[21:27:24] <Tom_itx> my weller has lasted for years
[21:27:33] <Tom_itx> aka Coper Industries
[21:27:36] <Tom_itx> Cooper
[21:27:37] <andypugh> I think you need to be more specific about "RS" here :-)
[21:27:44] <Tom_itx> radio shack
[21:28:45] <kwallace1> I have a nice no name iron with a temperature dial, but can't seem to find tips for it. I got the Weller in a junk pile.
[21:28:55] <andypugh> To me "RS" means "Radio Spares" and they probably get a few percent of my annual income: http://uk.rs-online.com/web/c/tools/soldering-desoldering-tools/soldering-irons/?searchTerm=weller
[21:29:09] <Tom_itx> this is a WTCPT
[21:29:21] <Tom_itx> cheap by 'good' iron standards
[21:29:52] <andypugh> The TCP irons are a really clever use of material properties.
[21:30:06] <Tom_itx> yep
[21:30:08] <Tom_itx> http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/scope/scope1.jpg
[21:30:22] <Tom_itx> you can almost see the base of it there
[21:31:07] <cradek> what's the XT keyboard for?
[21:31:28] <cradek> other than holding up the other keyboard...
[21:31:49] <Tom_itx> it's hooked to the pc with the screen in front of the kbd
[21:31:56] <Tom_itx> old OmniKey keyboard
[21:32:01] <Tom_itx> heavy as heck
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[21:33:41] <Tom_itx> you can also see the flux pen sitting beside the mouse
[21:35:54] <Tom_itx> i don't care for multi monitor setups, i'd rather have multi pc
[21:36:38] <andypugh> I think I see the problem with the UI (other than the design). It seems that buttons take the label of the associated action, not their own label (!)
[21:38:39] <kwallace1> My oscilloscope has regained some of its function. I had half a drop of Deoxit left and used it on a couple switches. I'm hoping more cleaner will fix it.
[21:40:09] <kwallace1> andypugh: You should be able to get pretty much anything you want with Glade.
[21:41:35] <_DJ_> gn8
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[21:43:41] <andypugh> I like the way that Glade has "Dilaogue boxes". Now is that a localisation, or is it like that for everyone?
[21:43:57] <andypugh> (Err. "Dialogue" that is)
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[21:46:23] <PCW> localization to the land of bad spellers?
[21:46:54] <t12> pcw: ~400ns/bit
[21:46:58] <t12> == 2.5mbaud?
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[21:47:21] <t12> https://www.dropbox.com/sc/xrp8r0h2edug0gf/uIwK3DqIRB#lh:1-2013-10-13%2023.18.36.jpg
[21:47:22] <kwallace1> I learned what I know of Glade from JT's tutorials and Rogge's work.
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[21:51:38] <kwallace1> The Glade UI allows different ways to get the same information, such as having a feature's parameters on part of the main screen, or the same parameters on a floating window.
[21:53:14] <kwallace1> It looks like the Glade that comes with LinuxCNC is a few revs old.
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[22:22:41] <andypugh> Well, so far, I am liking Touchy.
[22:23:27] <andypugh> Just need to add a couple of macros for probing, and perhaps a screen of common cycles (like my lathe one) and I will have to start finding things to make :-)
[22:25:29] <Tom_itx> just don't blow your psu right off
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[22:33:45] <CaptHindsight> t12: your math looks right
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[22:38:07] <andypugh> Tom_itx: The current problem is that the Z axis tends to slip. I have a spring-loaded plunger to immobilise the gear in the knee (I wanted to retain some manual capability) and it seems to not be as reliable as I would like.
[22:38:37] <Tom_itx> ahh yes i recall that discussion
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[22:39:34] <Tom_itx> not quite sure of a good solution for that
[22:40:12] <andypugh> I wish I had thought of the solution I am using on the X axis before I assembled it all.
[22:40:45] <andypugh> (replacing a bronze bush with a trantorque bush is _really_ effective)
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[22:43:47] <Tom_itx> http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=x-raw-image://///5598f8ac4dcf8360dea7f5f32c817cee398882f517727b9586786ffd326ead95&imgrefurl=http://www.fennerdrives.com/catalogs/keyless_bushings.pdf&h=489&w=670&sz=205&tbnid=YIPPTaz4mFWaYM:&tbnh=90&tbnw=123&zoom=1&usg=__36Fxp8nC5aV0dTYqCBcNgyMGRIw=&docid=oA0CO4K4tumXZM&sa=X&ei=E3NcUsubFYqz2QXbk4DABw&ved=0CIgBEPUBMA8
[22:43:50] <Tom_itx> what the heck
[22:44:23] <CaptHindsight> did you use giant url for that link? :)
[22:44:30] <Tom_itx> yuppers
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[22:45:45] <andypugh> Err, not quite that sturdy: More like http://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/keyless-bushes/7784950/?origin=PSF_428524|alt
[22:45:54] <Tom_itx> they don't tend to gauld the shaftA?
[22:46:51] <andypugh> They probably would if you used them as the bearing, yes.
[22:46:54] <Tom_itx> yeah i was looking at a bunch of those at fennerdrives dot com
[22:47:15] <andypugh> But for occasional re-positioning I dount there is a problem.
[22:47:34] <Tom_itx> yeah i suppose you're not gonna move the knee that much
[22:47:46] <andypugh> They really are very good. Generallt you can shear the shaft before they let go.
[22:48:19] <Tom_itx> adjust the tension with the nut i presume
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[22:54:14] <PCW> t12: how many bits in the response data?
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[22:58:23] <andypugh> PCW: What do you consider to still need to be fixed on the SSI / Fanuc stuff?
[22:59:31] <PCW> maybe user specification of prescale (and reset ignore data-invalid timer if changed)
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[23:00:24] <PCW> Seems to work pretty well other than startup errors
[23:01:11] <andypugh> I thought we decided that users didn't deserve to set prescale :-)
[23:02:03] <andypugh> Though the very slow settling with higher prescales is a bit of an issue.
[23:02:15] <PCW> its a nuisance but it does set the PLL gain
[23:03:07] <PCW> I will have to try on a 7I80 (100 MHZ base clock)
[23:03:41] <andypugh> Is there a way to speed up the settling at a high prescale? I tired meddling with plimit and filter, to no obvious effect.
[23:04:32] <PCW> faster filter time constant and max plimit will help
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[23:05:30] <PCW> but you do reduce the lock-in range with higher prescales (in inverse proportion to the prescale value)
[23:06:07] <PCW> I need to have a lousy latency system to try
[23:06:56] <PCW> (the actual DPLL jitter is down in the noise with my 12 usec jitter linuxcnc test rig)
[23:08:15] <PCW> on thing for fast locking is forcing a lock by writing the phase error reg (at 0x7100) instead of reading the sync register (at 0x7600)
[23:10:05] <PCW> maybe if i was a bit smarter this would be done automatically id the phase error was > 10 degrees or so
[23:13:17] <andypugh> Well, when you tell me ehat my opinion is, I will set it up that way.
[23:14:35] <PCW> maybe the force lock would be the biggest help (plus lower initial time constant)
[23:15:20] <PCW> the time constant can always be increased once locked
[23:15:53] <PCW> (by user hal magic)
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[23:16:52] <MacGalempsy> hey guys
[23:17:02] <PCW> in case the lowest possible DPLL jitter is required
[23:17:18] <andypugh> Hi MacGalempsy
[23:17:45] <MacGalempsy> andypugh: you get some quality shop time in this weekend?
[23:18:32] <andypugh> Yeah. I got my drawbar actively pushing out the tool, which is a big help. And I now have the right oil eeryhwehre, and an oil-seal on the spindle.
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[23:32:57] <PCW> Hmm looks like the Mitsubishi serial encoder protocol could be folded in to the Fanuc interface without too much trouble
[23:33:58] <PCW> only real difference other that baud rate and data bits is that the request is a character not just a pulse
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[23:35:34] <PCW> (no doubt the drive can query motor characteristics in on startup via another request char)
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