#linuxcnc | Logs for 2013-10-01

[00:01:40] <Aero-Tec> do a search on youtube for more info
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[00:05:20] <somenewguy> JT-Shop: got it uploadedto the forum, and on the bright side it looks like FF can upload now? I noticed apost saying that was broken
[00:07:33] <JT-Shop> that was a long time ago IIRC
[00:07:43] <Aero-Tec> but how can one connect openCV to EMC and use the info in EMC to control equipment?
[00:07:44] <JT-Shop> I see it and will take care of you in a bit
[00:07:56] <JT-Shop> last part in the powder coat oven
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[00:12:28] <somenewguy> awesome thanks! got the install running on a spare PC, but its a dinosaur so I still need to do a latency test
[00:17:28] <CaptHindsight> Aero-Tec: http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?Axis_Embed_Video is a simple example
[00:18:59] <CaptHindsight> Aero-Tec: I'm working on something similar with opencv and Linuxcnc
[00:19:16] <Aero-Tec> cool
[00:19:25] <Aero-Tec> maybe we can work together
[00:21:11] <CaptHindsight> scanning parts, defect detection, alignment etc
[00:21:43] <Aero-Tec> the embedded video is cool but not usable for auto detection of size of something and changing things in real time to maintain a proper output of product
[00:22:32] <CaptHindsight> yeah, they didn't go that far
[00:22:38] <CaptHindsight> just a start
[00:22:39] <Aero-Tec> or am I missing something in the embedded video thing?
[00:23:35] <CaptHindsight> edge detection for alignment
[00:23:37] <Aero-Tec> are you saying openCV does not go that far or embedded video does not or both?
[00:24:03] <CaptHindsight> the example using openCV with Linuxcnc
[00:24:16] <CaptHindsight> openCV is a library
[00:24:21] <Aero-Tec> it would be cool to use openCV for auto homing
[00:25:41] <CaptHindsight> using fiducials on pcb's is a good example
[00:26:17] <CaptHindsight> scan for the fiducials, set home
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[00:37:49] <spack> CaptHindsight: http://www.ebay.com/itm/141073700087?ru=http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_sacat=0&_from=R40&_nkw=141073700087&_rdc=1
[00:37:56] <spack> pretty far away
[00:37:59] <spack> but it's so shiny
[00:38:02] <spack> :)
[00:38:35] <somenewguy> fark, the new machine cna't even mount itself
[00:38:44] * somenewguy failed electronics husbandry
[00:38:50] <CaptHindsight> yeah CA, lots of them seem to be from there
[00:38:55] <spack> yeah
[00:38:58] <spack> west coast seems ripe
[00:39:06] <spack> got a shipping quote of $1600
[00:39:17] <spack> kinda steep
[00:39:34] <CaptHindsight> make it a road trip
[00:39:52] <spack> think i could do it more cheaply?
[00:40:06] <spack> i don't have a truck
[00:40:17] <spack> 6 days and 4000 miles of flatbedding
[00:40:28] <CaptHindsight> stop at a bone yard, bolt on an old axle and some tires and drag it back :)
[00:40:34] <spack> :)
[00:41:23] <spack> i wonder how badly towing 2x the rated capacity over the rocky mountains would fuck my transmission
[00:41:27] <CaptHindsight> I used to drive Chicago to the Bay area in 30 hours
[00:41:41] <spack> sounds about right
[00:41:57] <CaptHindsight> who needs sleep?
[00:42:01] <spack> pansies
[00:42:44] <CaptHindsight> the route through Wyoming is pretty tame
[00:44:20] <spack> wow, it runs on 110
[00:44:50] <spack> or that's just part of it
[00:44:56] <spack> found another plate
[00:45:02] <spack> 3ph 220
[00:45:32] <spack> has a parallel port connection
[00:45:51] <spack> there was someone here who really liked shizuokas
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[00:48:54] <CaptHindsight> http://www.ebay.com/itm/mitsubishi-cnc-vertical-mill-/131004220610?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1e8075c4c2
[00:49:36] <spack> lash in y drive ball screw"?
[00:49:39] <spack> wtf
[00:49:44] <spack> i typed way more than that
[00:49:53] <spack> "backlash in the y drive ball screw"
[00:50:12] <somenewguy> impressive
[00:51:39] <spack> but yeah i saw that yesterday
[00:51:44] <CaptHindsight> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Verticle-Machining-Center-Okuma-5v-/121184442504?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1c3727d888
[00:51:53] <CaptHindsight> Okuma
[00:52:56] <spack> hmm
[00:52:57] <spack> 5k
[00:53:17] <CaptHindsight> looks like a tiny 3/8 check in the spindle
[00:53:18] <spack> the shiz would be 4200 or so with shipping including loading and palleting and shit
[00:53:33] <CaptHindsight> check/chuck
[00:53:49] <CaptHindsight> world most overbuilt drill press
[00:53:54] <spack> haha
[00:54:15] <spack> i want to get a moore jig grinder
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[01:05:14] <kwallace1> I moved my Shizuoka on a double axle car trailer. After loading the mill, the tires looked like they where low on pressure, so I tried to fill them, but they were already at 40 psi. I went 30 mph all the way back home.
[01:06:08] <spack> heh
[01:06:32] <spack> 1600 for delivery from california including loading isn't bad at all
[01:06:33] <somenewguy> I did the same but with 11 punks in a station wagon
[01:07:00] <somenewguy> thoguht we lost air when the car hit the jersey barrier (huge snowstorm caught us) but it turned out we were just fat. You forget human weight adds up
[01:07:06] <spack> haha
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[01:07:52] <spack> how much did you pay for it?
[01:08:58] <kwallace1> Just under $2000 with tool changer and tooling: http://www.wallacecompany.com/machine_shop/Shizuoka/
[01:09:17] <spack> that's what i need :(
[01:09:23] <spack> where'd you find it?
[01:10:04] <kwallace1> It was on eBay, located in Sacramento.
[01:10:22] <spack> i've been trolling ebay for a couple months
[01:10:35] <spack> got a deal on a bostomatic, but the dude selling it went into the hospital
[01:10:52] <spack> other than that, i haven't really found any deals
[01:11:42] <spack> this shiz would be nice if it were local, but it doesn't have a tool changer
[01:12:07] <spack> looks like it has 5 tool holders
[01:14:47] <kwallace1> My TC has 24 tool holders: http://www.wallacecompany.com/machine_shop/Shizuoka/00029-1a.jpg
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[01:15:48] <kwallace1> Making a changer like this should be possible for a hobby shop.
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[01:20:33] <spack> i don't really want to spend all my free time for 3 months doing that though :)
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[01:23:49] <uw> spicand spack
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[01:29:30] <spack> winning bid, $5100
[01:29:42] <spack> uw : spicand spack
[01:29:45] <spack> i think that's racist
[01:38:32] <uw> is it?
[01:38:42] <uw> what does that even mean?
[01:38:49] <spack> i don't know
[01:38:54] <spack> i remember reading something about it
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[03:54:37] <s1dev> whats a decent way to generate G-code from inventor or autocad files?
[03:54:49] <s1dev> preferrably freer
[03:55:02] <s1dev> or free for students
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[04:50:04] <uw> pycam will do that but the program kinda sucks so get ready for a real treat s1dev
[04:50:51] <s1dev> fun, can I generate gcode to machine an involute gear in a reasonable amount of time?
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[05:05:59] <uw> depends on the tooling you have, material you plan to machine it out of, machine you're using
[05:06:01] <uw> etc
[05:06:25] <uw> but yea making the part and generating the gcode could probably be done in 30 mins?
[05:06:31] <uw> maybe 1hr?
[05:06:59] <uw> then going over the gcode and dry running it (which i always do because i have very little faith in pycam and dont wnat to break my machine)
[05:07:34] <uw> the actual cutting though depends on above though
[05:08:09] <archivist> s1dev, a proper gear, or what
[05:09:00] <s1dev> its involute
[05:09:01] <archivist> as cam generally knows little about gears
[05:09:56] <archivist> it is trivial to gear mill with an involute cutter and 4th axis with hand written gcode
[05:10:11] <s1dev> in 3d printing, complex shapes are achieved by a whole bunch of small G1 commands
[05:10:29] <s1dev> I have an decently small endmill and 4 axes
[05:10:49] <s1dev> so I'm wondering if there's something like that for machining
[05:10:59] <archivist> you can generate the form with 4 axis
[05:11:52] <archivist> but an endmilll has the cutter 90 deg from where you need it
[05:12:20] <s1dev> I could hand write the code to machine an approximation of an involute gear
[05:12:26] <s1dev> how so?
[05:17:47] <archivist> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SJQtx80euGM
[05:20:19] <s1dev> I'm not trying to machine teeth nearly as small although that does seem like a good method otherwise
[05:20:37] <archivist> that is not making small teeth
[05:21:30] <archivist> but is a general method to use rack form to generate a curve
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[05:30:23] <archivist> if you want to follow a gear path then an online toy like http://woodgears.ca/gear_cutting/template.html
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[05:32:01] <archivist> http://woodgears.ca/gear_cutting/
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[05:38:17] <kwallace1> I have a spreadsheet here: http://www.wallacecompany.com/machine_shop/gears/ It has been a few years since I have played with it, but I seem to recall plotting the points for half of a tooth in qCAD, then pasting the form to get the gear outline. The qCAD file is then run through dxf2gcode. http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?Simple_EMC_G-Code_Generators#Dxf2gcode_import_a_2D_DXF_file_and_produce_G_code
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[05:41:48] <archivist> but with some maths ans a v cutter and 5 axes one can generate the involute on a bevel http://www.collection.archivist.info/archive/DJCPD/PD/2013/2013_08_16_bevel/IMG_1651.JPG
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[05:44:11] <toastydeath> archivist network unreachable
[05:44:19] <toastydeath> oop, disregard
[05:44:41] <archivist> has to be reachable as I irc from the box :)
[05:45:40] <toastydeath> i wonder how gear shapers work
[05:45:45] <toastydeath> because they can totally do bevel crown gears
[05:46:38] <archivist> the maths for bevel shaping is how my bevel cutting works
[05:46:49] <toastydeath> dang
[05:49:00] <archivist> currently I have to set the A axis in the right place so the axis of the cone is right
[05:49:13] <archivist> the maths http://www.archivist.info/gear/designbevel.php
[05:49:43] <archivist> the setup http://www.collection.archivist.info/archive/DJCPD/PD/2013/2013_08_11_bevel/IMG_1632.JPG
[05:50:18] <archivist> I am currently working on better/more accurate setup
[05:51:14] <uw> i hav no idea whats goign on in this pictur
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[05:54:58] <archivist> uw I think this page illustrates the cone rolling http://www.collection.archivist.info/archive/DJC/BK/BK2918/page_0087t.jpg
[05:59:19] <uw> archivist, oh is this for hypoid gears?
[06:00:17] <archivist> no just straight bevel
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[06:01:14] <uw> do you have a video of your setup to show what is spinning/moving?
[06:01:32] <archivist> no, that camera died
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[06:53:29] <DJ9DJ> moin
[06:53:32] <DJ9DJ> hi uw
[06:54:23] <uw> sup DeeJayyy
[06:54:42] <uw> hows your cnc doing?
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[07:17:11] <DJ9DJ> uw, cnc is just a hobby for me. here are some pictures of the last thing i made: http://gallery.quadrokopter.net/main.php?g2_itemId=343
[07:17:26] <DJ9DJ> its a wedding present for good friend
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[07:20:40] <uw> wow that looks great DJ9DJ! very impressed. How big are the circle diameters?
[07:21:04] <DJ9DJ> hmm, inner circle diameter is about 230mm
[07:21:36] <DJ9DJ> the wood is ash tree (hope the translation is correct)
[07:22:17] <uw> cool and yup i can understand
[07:22:26] <uw> do you get dust on the ballscrews?
[07:22:53] <DJ9DJ> hm, yes, you found dust in the whole room after that ;-)
[07:23:18] <DJ9DJ> my cnc is standing right next to me in my room here (in the house)
[07:23:51] <DJ9DJ> but since its only hobby for me, i am not bothering about that
[07:25:28] <DJ9DJ> do you have any pictures of your cnc work? :-)
[07:26:13] <uw> ah i see, dust happens (shrugs)
[07:26:30] <uw> i think i do, however i dont have a big machine like you
[07:26:37] <uw> only small things i can do :(
[07:26:43] <DJ9DJ> ah
[07:29:23] <uw> http://i.imgur.com/Nd0uUXb.jpg
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[07:29:47] <uw> i make coasters out old cd cases :/
[07:30:10] <uw> i cut them out later but thats the fresh picture
[07:31:52] <uw> i have picture of some custom bolts i made recently but i cannot find them
[07:32:03] <uw> still, not as cool as your work LOL
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[07:50:22] <Loetmichel> Mornin'
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[07:58:00] <DJ9DJ> uw, wow, looks nice
[07:58:17] <DJ9DJ> morning Loetmichel
[07:59:11] <Loetmichel> uw: looks like the engraving bit was a bit dull or wide
[07:59:17] <Loetmichel> otherwise nice!
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[08:01:37] <Loetmichel> DJ9DJ: ah, "esche"... had to google that ;-)
[08:02:05] <DJ9DJ> indeed ;)
[08:02:26] <DJ9DJ> i had to ask dict.leo.org ;-)
[08:03:40] <Loetmichel> uw: for the dust: as long as you dont look like me... -> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=5077 ... everything is fine ;-)
[08:04:17] <Loetmichel> the ballscrews usually have rubberlips to prevenbt dust vom entering the nuts.
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[08:05:07] <uw> Loetmichel, yes for that one the bit had a tiny bur that really messed up the cut
[08:05:29] <uw> and LOL for that picture. it looks like you and the machine had a fight
[08:05:44] <DJ9DJ> hrhr
[08:06:07] <Loetmichel> just had to plane down a big urethane plastic block with a 40mm mill bit.
[08:06:08] <uw> that or the vaccum was in disagreement
[08:06:25] <Loetmichel> and the dust collector nozzle doesent fit over the bit.
[08:06:58] <Loetmichel> o i was standing exactly in the direction the mill bit throwed the stream of chips
[08:07:04] <Loetmichel> so
[08:07:12] <uw> oh i see
[08:07:16] <Loetmichel> searching...
[08:07:42] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=4378
[08:07:51] <Loetmichel> there you can see it with some other plastic
[08:08:50] <uw> looks like a cotton candy factory
[08:08:57] <Loetmichel> hrhr
[08:09:14] <Loetmichel> normally there is a dust collector over the mill bit
[08:09:41] <Loetmichel> like in this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mj8sGEf8Wf8
[08:09:58] <Loetmichel> which is more or less clean
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[08:11:48] <uw> very neat
[08:12:54] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=4935
[08:13:22] <Loetmichel> there you can see it milling ist sacrificial plate
[08:13:30] <Loetmichel> tha whole machine
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[08:21:21] <uw> it look good for sure
[08:22:11] <Loetmichel> uw: had build it for my ex bosses company
[08:22:18] <Loetmichel> which he had sold
[08:22:31] <Loetmichel> so the macshine went away with the company
[08:22:55] <Loetmichel> but it worked 3 years withot any big problems ;-)
[08:23:04] <uw> is that the company CyROM?
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[08:24:02] <Loetmichel> no, thats my owb OOOOLLLLLLLD company i had in the nineties
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[11:04:24] <Jymmm> Has anyone seen/used any fraction greater than 1/64th?
[11:04:57] <Jymmm> Like 128 ?
[11:06:51] <archivist> yes 1/1000
[11:07:04] <Jymmm> application?
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[11:07:23] <archivist> normal machining
[11:07:45] <ChristianS> sane people use metric values
[11:08:12] <archivist> sane people use whichever the machine is calibrated in
[11:09:52] <Jymmm> archivist: 1/1000, but not for math purposes, just describing?
[11:10:28] <archivist> usually written as 1.023 etc
[11:10:53] <archivist> fractions in math are history
[11:11:18] <Jymmm> No, I meant literally a fraction... 13/16 wrench, etc
[11:11:59] <archivist> but I am trying to put some sense across
[11:13:24] <Jymmm> Heh, that's not what i was asking though. I'm working on a chart and I want to know if 128th and 256th are useful in some applications
[11:13:29] <jthornton> netgear nanny says I've used 12.06 Mbytes since 00:00
[11:13:52] <Jymmm> jthornton: you got a new router?
[11:13:54] <jthornton> $29.95 Netgear from Walmart
[11:14:04] <Jymmm> that works =)
[11:14:32] <Jymmm> jthornton: does it tell you what kind of traffic it was?
[11:14:35] <jthornton> yea, I just had to power cycle the other routers after setting up the netgear
[11:14:48] <jthornton> it has up and down and total
[11:14:53] <Jymmm> ah
[11:15:47] <jthornton> and it has a free desktop app to show the traffic statistics
[11:16:07] <Jymmm> JT-Shop-3: jthornton BOTH of you generate traffic
[11:16:50] <jthornton> not much on the IRC
[11:17:16] <Jymmm> jthornton: Well, even if you dont display tall the part/joins, they do count as traffic.
[11:17:25] <Jymmm> s/tall/all/
[11:18:33] <Jymmm> jthornton: I was just going to suggest using SCREEN and a Shell IRC Client.
[11:19:06] <jthornton> http://helpdeskgeek.com/networking/limit-bandwidth-on-a-netgear-wireless-router/
[11:19:58] <Jymmm> jthornton: Yep, that's what I linked you to yesterday. It's how I knew the had it.
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[11:29:04] <Jymmm> jthornton: Oh, also realize that many websites use AJAX/JS that can reload new content in the background every 15 minutes even you aren't doing anything on the page.
[11:30:11] <jthornton> yea, I've been turning off the browsers now when I'm not looking at something
[11:32:33] <skunkworks> http://imagebin.org/272432
[11:32:59] <Jymmm> jthornton: Heh, you need to find the equiv to "Lil Snitch", a traffic monitor/blocker for OSX
[11:34:15] <Jymmm> jthornton: It tells you anytime anything tries to go out the network and if you want to allow/block it.
[11:36:29] <Jymmm> jthornton: OH, you know what... You might start using your browsers in mobile mode.
[11:37:10] <Jymmm> jthornton: They are usually lightweight compared to the "normal" website.
[11:38:18] <jthornton> I'm just curious if the netgear numbers and the wildblue numbers are the same now
[11:38:35] <jthornton> we will see in a few days
[11:39:02] <jthornton> so far I've used 44Mbytes so it doesn't even show up on wildblue's GB meter
[11:39:30] <Jymmm> you've trippled yourbandwidth usage in less than an hour???
[11:39:55] <skunkworks> jthornton, did you end up finding out what was chatty?
[11:40:30] <jthornton> not exactly but I suspect the eye things so I turned wifi off on them
[11:41:52] <Jymmm> 12MB @ 4:13, 44MB @ 4:39
[11:42:37] <jthornton> I looked at some photos
[11:42:50] <Jymmm> 1.2MB per minute
[11:47:36] <Jymmm> 1440 minutes in 24hours @ 1.2MB/minute = 1.7GB/day @ 30.4 Days per month = 52GB per month
[11:50:20] <Jymmm> jthornton: whats your monthly limit?
[11:53:48] <Jymmm> 10GB
[11:53:51] <Jymmm> nm
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[12:11:20] <Tom_itx> Jymmm, if you need finer than 64ths one would typically find a ruler marked in tenths with hundredths markings or get a micrometer or digital caliper
[12:11:36] <Tom_itx> or a vernier scale
[12:11:47] <Meduza> Or just go metric ;)
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[12:15:02] <ktchk> http://picbin.org/main/viewsrc/524abc72887b21a7280383f7 http://picbin.org/main/viewsrc/524abca3887b21b128b51bea
[12:15:32] <ktchk> Please look at the servo motor
[12:16:07] <Jymmm> jthornton: This might help you gauge your daily usage http://codepad.org/0DtgliO7
[12:16:56] <ktchk> Can anyone tell me what is the spec. or what mesa board to drive it?
[12:16:58] <Tom_itx> February is a bonus nonth
[12:17:06] <Tom_itx> m*
[12:18:53] <Tom_itx> ktchk, i wonder if these are from the same mfg: http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/motors/motor3.jpg
[12:21:20] <ktchk> At the rear end there is an encoder see http://picbin.org/main/viewsrc/524abe1e887b218428c8f5af
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[12:21:54] <Tom_itx> yeah mine had encoders too but i robbed them
[12:22:13] <ktchk> Why?
[12:22:41] <Tom_itx> http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/maxbot/maxbot_index.php
[12:22:43] <Tom_itx> for that
[12:24:12] <ktchk> what ampere to the motor?
[12:24:35] <Tom_itx> i'm not sure
[12:26:19] <Tom_itx> the driver on tho bot was 3A
[12:26:27] <Tom_itx> but used different motors
[12:26:34] <ktchk> http://picbin.org/main/viewsrc/524abf46887b219f29f560da I have two of these thing connected to the motor.
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[13:21:08] <JT-Shop> so i have basicly 300 Mbytes per day I can use and I'm at 50 now for the day :(
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[13:22:20] <archivist> some of the limits are silly, and sites that abuse your connection with unneeded js and adverts need controlling
[13:22:31] <JT-Shop> aye
[13:25:56] <JT-Shop> now I have a desktop traffic meter from netgear so I can see what's going on
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[13:28:04] <archivist> I want a meter per website
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[13:32:25] <DJ9DJ> re
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[14:30:37] <ktchk> http://picbin.org/main/viewsrc/524abc72887b21a7280383f7 http://picbin.org/main/viewsrc/524abca3887b21b128b51bea
[14:30:39] <ktchk> Please look at the servo motor
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[15:39:17] <jdh> not spindle rotation?
[15:39:34] <jdh> I wondered about that also.
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[15:43:52] <kwallace2> Basically, it is most common to set the tool path to climb cut.
[15:46:02] <uw> interesting. thats opposite of what i usually cut (hoever i've never done a helical cut)
[15:46:27] <kwallace2> Oops, I found the quoted bit above, and I don't know what they mean.
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[15:49:29] <kwallace2> My understanding is that "conventional" cutting is a manual milling practice, to counter backlash. CNC machines should never have backlash and climb cutting produces a better finish.
[15:50:41] <jdh> but then I have read that light finish passes should be conventional
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[15:55:24] <kwallace2> A major issue on the Sandvik pages is the use of trochoidal milling, which tries to make sure the cutter tip enters each cut at an angle to the material surface. Linear ramping has the cut starting with a 'glance'.
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[15:58:30] <uw> yes i've always heard "conventional" where the mill is like a wheel and goes along with the cut, not against it
[15:59:13] <uw> but again, i'm not a serious machinist and have never used a sandvik tool which looks to be a very different process
[15:59:59] <uw> i've never even had a tool with inserts, even though they look awesome and I want to get one
[16:00:03] <kwallace2> Each chip will tend to have a crescent shape as shown here with the light blue area http://www.sandvik.coromant.com/SiteCollectionImages/Technical%20guide/Pablo/D%20milling/091657.jpg
[16:03:32] <archivist> http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/attachments/f21/38772d1317680462-climb-milling-conventional-when-using-carbide-climb_conv1.jpg
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[16:18:45] <CaptHindsight> what to do with all the RPi's they send as free extras when you order parts?
[16:21:55] <jdh> you could send me one.
[16:22:26] <cradek> if you have a table that's slightly too low, or a door that needs to be held open...
[16:22:48] <cradek> anywhere you can use a phone book you could also use a RPi
[16:24:25] <jdh> I have two in use. They are fine for what they are (cheap)
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[16:25:51] <CaptHindsight> stocking stuffers for xmas
[16:26:55] <CaptHindsight> forgot Halloween is coming up
[16:27:09] <CaptHindsight> some kids is going to come home puzzled
[16:27:27] <CaptHindsight> is/are
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[16:50:27] <andypugh> PCW: Any luck with the Fanuc thing now?
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[16:58:53] <IchGuckLive> hi all B)
[16:59:02] <Tom_itx> uw, generally you will ramp or plunge at half or less than the regular feedrate
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[17:07:54] <PCW> andypugh: I somehow thought this was in master, rebuilding ssi branch (I had to refetch everything as there were some merge conflicts)
[17:08:16] <PCW> (building now)
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[17:19:34] <PCW> Hmm, the trigger encoder function seems to be gone
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[17:24:02] <IchGuckLive> s1dev: ?
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[17:29:48] <mrsun_> felt wipers should get looser with time right? :) made the ones ive done for my axles 2mm undersized on the ID for them to be tight, but it got a bit very tight.. no problem for the motor power but =)
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[17:39:59] <andypugh> PCW: You only get the trigger-encoder function of there is no hm2dpll module.
[17:42:49] <PCW> OK
[17:43:20] <andypugh> It turns out to be quite hard to get the ssi module to be reading at the point of "tram" read.
[17:43:49] <andypugh> It's not easy to tell whether it is being triggered before or after the read.
[17:44:04] <PCW> well it needs to read _berfore_ tram read
[17:44:57] <PCW> maybe busy should be set as a side effect of read
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[17:46:14] <PCW> but there should be a large window available (most of a millisecond) where the timer can be set
[17:46:26] <PCW> and have the data available
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[17:46:36] <andypugh> Yes, quite.
[17:47:01] <PCW> what about having busy set by reading the data?
[17:47:09] <andypugh> But, given that ideally you would like to trigger at the last moment possible to have the freshest data.
[17:47:46] <PCW> Yes so ssi time + max jitter
[17:48:05] <andypugh> I guess what is important is the ratio between read being triggered and the data being read?
[17:48:06] <PCW> (before servo thread invocation)
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[17:49:00] <PCW> well the total time the SSI interface takes
[17:49:23] <PCW> Does phase lock work now?
[17:49:36] <PCW> and can you select/set timers?
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[17:51:44] <andypugh> Phase lock seems to work, and you can choose which timer you want to allocate to each function.
[17:52:22] <andypugh> The default lead-time is 0 uS though. Which will work, but is probably pessimum.
[17:56:14] <jdh> what does TIR stand for, in normal useage for this group.
[17:57:12] <archivist> total indicator reading/runout I think
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[17:58:37] <jdh> never heard the 'reading' one before today.
[17:59:53] <jdh> or total [indicator|indicated] [reading|runout]
[18:00:08] <andypugh> Total indicated runout.
[18:00:46] <andypugh> (probably not important for a dingle flute cutter :-)
[18:00:56] <andypugh> single, even.
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[18:10:38] <Loetmichel> for ~40kg of cast steel
[18:10:43] <Loetmichel> :-)
[18:10:57] <archivist> I have a couple of little presses, both smaller than that
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[18:11:41] <Loetmichel> i will use it as a small brake press for making electronics casings out of 1,5mm aluminium sheets
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[18:11:48] <Loetmichel> that will work i think
[18:12:04] <Loetmichel> to bend the aluminium i mean
[18:12:21] <archivist> I wonder how those bolt grip the column, specially when you want to abuse something tight
[18:13:11] <Tom_itx> !seen anonimasu
[18:13:11] <the_wench> last seen in 2013-04-24 12:10:34GMT 838:59:59 ago, saying Ping timeout: 256 seconds
[18:13:35] <PCW> andy: do you read the sync location only once and first hm2 read
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[18:15:02] <andypugh> We had an RS press with a set of bending, nothching and louvre tools at Leeds university. It was immensely useful. And very expensive: http://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/machine-presses/0541309/
[18:15:46] <Loetmichel> how cute ;-)
[18:16:07] <archivist> we had one of those at a previous job
[18:16:16] <Loetmichel> archivist_ moment. will make a pic of the back
[18:16:31] <archivist> dont think it used to be that expensive!
[18:16:43] <PCW> That is phase error is read from sync location (which phase locks DPLL as a read side effect)
[18:16:45] <PCW> This must only be done once (and the data read here is the phase error)
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[18:18:42] <andypugh> once per servo cycle, or only once?
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[18:19:26] <PCW> once per servo cycle, as the first read
[18:19:46] <andypugh> It is read once per servo cycle, but is not guaranteed to be the first read.
[18:20:20] <PCW> it really should be jitter wise
[18:21:21] <PCW> is the phase error pin the data from this read? (trying to track down why I have an offset)
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[18:22:37] <Loetmichel> archivist: looks like it is just steel-> steel grip. no pins, no teeth anywhere ->
[18:22:40] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=14469
[18:25:27] <archivist> Loetmichel, so it will slip if you over do it :)
[18:25:27] <Loetmichel> i think so
[18:25:27] <Loetmichel> depends on the size of the allen key i think ;-)
[18:25:27] <archivist> one of mine http://www.collection.archivist.info/archive/DJCPD/PD/2011/2011_02_24_waterlow_press_tool/IMG_0917.JPG
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[18:28:42] <CaptHindsight> PCW: any idea of the slew for the H-bridge version of the 7i40?
[18:28:47] <Loetmichel> andypugh: hmm, that woorks with the impulse of the top masses and the thread?
[18:28:55] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: Did you get the usage chart?
[18:28:58] <andypugh> PCW: No, that's wrong.
[18:28:59] <Loetmichel> your press?
[18:29:24] <archivist> me? yes a called a fly press
[18:29:35] <andypugh> the phase error pin you see is read from 0x7100, the phase error register...
[18:29:56] <JT-Shop> usage chart?
[18:30:15] <CaptHindsight> PCW: wondering since the application is driving piezo motors
[18:30:37] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: This might help you gauge your daily usage http://codepad.org/0DtgliO7
[18:31:25] <Loetmichel> oh
[18:31:33] <Loetmichel> sorry, andypugh, i meant archivist
[18:31:43] <JT-Shop> thanks
[18:32:20] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: no problem. Months shorter than 31 days are just bonuses =)
[18:32:26] <Loetmichel> archivist: like the first gutenberg presses ?!
[18:32:40] <JT-Shop> yea, download some machine porn on those months
[18:32:54] <archivist> Loetmichel, that one is actually from a printing company
[18:33:28] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: Yep, But at least you have some way to guage your daily usage and if you'll have any bandwidth left at the end of the month
[18:34:14] <Loetmichel> archivist: the nice point is that my press was only 50 km from here and is just a few years old, no rust, and works like a charm.
[18:34:20] <Loetmichel> AND it was cheap ;)
[18:35:08] <Loetmichel> anyone knows whre to get cheap bending inserts? preferably from inside europe so no customs?
[18:35:10] <archivist> I like even cheaper :)
[18:35:27] <archivist> make your needs
[18:35:55] <Loetmichel> hmm?
[18:36:14] <Loetmichel> does that meand "diy"?
[18:36:15] <archivist> I make tooling as I need it
[18:36:20] <Jymmm> andypugh: Busy? I have some Stainless Steel grade questions for ya (0.010" sheet)
[18:36:30] <archivist> cheap UK lathe 271289066349
[18:37:02] <Loetmichel> to make hardened and STRAIGHT edges and 47° V steel prisms is out of my league to he honest
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[18:37:29] <Loetmichel> haem 87°
[18:37:37] <Jymmm> archivist: You have that bot for youtube headers?
[18:37:49] <archivist> no
[18:37:54] <Jymmm> oh
[18:38:26] <archivist> Loetmichel, done really need to be hardened for ally
[18:38:29] <archivist> dont
[18:38:34] <PCW> andypugh: the sync read should be the one used for phase error (read of 7100 can be use to tell you the current time
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[18:39:39] <Loetmichel> archivist: even without the hardening: steel is not my material of choice if i can help it
[18:39:47] <Jymmm> Anyhow.... http://search.ebay.com/AUCTION_ID -or- http://search.ebay.com/271289066349 -or- http://search.ebay.com/fuzzy+bunnies+that+attack+at+dawn
[18:40:00] <Loetmichel> and i HAVE seen some bending tools inended for a vice...but cant find them
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[20:34:58] <andypugh> Well, that look like the end of my machining activities for today. My power supply just blew up. As in, loud bang and filled the room with smoke.
[20:35:13] <JT-Shop> yuck
[20:35:34] <andypugh> Looks like the crowbar resistor dropped in when t shouldn't.
[20:36:12] <andypugh> Caps stiill seem OK. But it's a complete pain to remove the PSU box from the bottom of the machine
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[20:36:31] <andypugh> (I need to remove one motor and much of the wiring)
[20:41:41] <JT-Shop> my shop ubuntu computer won't commnuicate with any one else on the network
[20:41:50] <JT-Shop> can't figure out what the heck is up
[20:43:13] <JT-Shop> netgear says the status is offline
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[20:45:28] <JT-Shop> now it says it is online
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[20:56:53] <DJ9DJ> gn8
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[20:57:55] <andypugh> I think I am going to move control of my PSU into HAL. Let LinuxCNC handle the startup and shutdown sequence. Though I might have to think about whether that is more or less dangerous.
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[23:03:00] <MacGalempsy> good evening
[23:03:20] <MacGalempsy> anyone here ever convert a Benchman XT w ATC?
[23:05:28] <andypugh> Not a name I have heard before.
[23:05:44] <MacGalempsy> it is made by intelitek/ light machine
[23:05:53] <MacGalempsy> it is ac servo controlled
[23:06:09] <MacGalempsy> but the guy has no ISA card, so it will need to be converted
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[23:07:08] <andypugh> Any idea what the interface is to the drives?
[23:08:04] <MacGalempsy> all I know is the machine is ready to plug into the ISA card, so all the motors and drivers are still in the machine
[23:08:23] <andypugh> Any idea which ISA card it was?
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[23:08:50] <MacGalempsy> all they said is that is was an intelitek 4000, but that the ISA card is not available anymore
[23:08:54] <MacGalempsy> when it was it was 5k
[23:09:15] <MacGalempsy> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Benchman-XT-CNC-Milling-Machine-/121183132008?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1c3713d968
[23:09:49] <MacGalempsy> I got a quote of 14k from the manufacturer to retrofit it, but I thought it could be done for a lot less running mach and some geckos
[23:10:05] <Tom_itx> andypugh didn't you have PSU problems once before?
[23:10:13] <andypugh> Yes, a lot less.
[23:10:22] <Tom_itx> same issues?
[23:10:28] <Tom_itx> weak point?
[23:11:18] <andypugh> Tom_itx: Indeed. I think I will find exactly the same problem as last time too, a welded relay that comects the 15ohm 50W resistor across the rectified mains..
[23:12:22] <andypugh> MacGalempsy: You probably don't need the Geckos with LinuxCNC
[23:12:28] <Tom_itx> that didn't take long to blow again
[23:12:36] <Tom_itx> better rethink that one a bit
[23:13:19] <andypugh> No, and this time I have no idea what the problem was. Maybe a temporarly power glitch just long enough to drop the relay out and in again.
[23:13:29] <Tom_itx> is that for your brake or to drain the caps on power down?
[23:13:30] <MacGalempsy> oh. andypugh honestly, my only cnc experience was building a 3d printer from scratch, but I want to start prototyping some of my designs in steal
[23:13:46] <MacGalempsy> steel
[23:14:52] <Tom_itx> reprap designs or other?
[23:14:58] <MacGalempsy> reprap
[23:15:08] <andypugh> MacGalempsy: Do you know if the ISA card was proprietary or commercially available?
[23:15:22] <Tom_itx> MacGalempsy did you see what rifraf was making?
[23:15:23] <MacGalempsy> I believe the support guy said it was proprietary
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[23:15:38] <MacGalempsy> Tom_itx: no, what is he doing?
[23:15:50] <Tom_itx> aluminum frames
[23:15:53] <MacGalempsy> I spend a lot of time in #reprap
[23:16:16] <andypugh> Do you have any info on the servo drives?
[23:16:16] <Tom_itx> he was in there a while
[23:16:16] <MacGalempsy> all I have is their factory manual
[23:16:28] <MacGalempsy> let me see if there is a list in there
[23:22:02] <MacGalempsy> I have a generic schematic of the ISA card, but no part numbers
[23:22:36] <MacGalempsy> NextMove Motion card sound familiar?
[23:22:53] <andypugh> Not at all, but let's see what Google says.
[23:23:19] <MacGalempsy> there are several on ebay
[23:23:31] <MacGalempsy> wow the cheapest is 2k
[23:24:08] <andypugh> Oh, I see. So the motion control actually happens on the card.
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[23:25:23] <MacGalempsy> I saw the same machine, complete go for 7500 in may
[23:25:40] <MacGalempsy> kind of kicking myself for not pulling the trigger then
[23:26:04] <andypugh> Do you actually already own the machine?
[23:26:24] <MacGalempsy> no. I am asking questions here to determine if I should bid on the auction
[23:26:40] <MacGalempsy> this guy wants 10k, but I was thinking about offering himn 5
[23:27:18] <andypugh> I am moderately sure that it is absolutely standard +/- 10V servo control with incremental encoder feedback.
[23:27:49] <micges_> nextmove is BaldorMotion controller, most of baldor driver is +-10V or ethernet/serial
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[23:28:11] <micges_> ofc if drivers are also from baldor
[23:28:33] <MacGalempsy> I could call the support and ask, the guy seemed pretty interested when I asked about it
[23:28:39] <andypugh> LinuxCNC supports a variety of cards that can control that, at around the $250 level. Either the Pico PPMC (parallel port interface, but as a data bus) or PCI (Mesa 5i25 / 7i77 combination)
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[23:29:24] <MacGalempsy> interesting, I will need to start reading up.
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[23:29:40] <andypugh> You could probably even run it with the Servo-to-go ISA card if you wanted to get traditional about it.
[23:30:13] <MacGalempsy> I dont care about traditional
[23:30:18] <micges> it there are baldors with analog interface they are trivial to interface with mesa 5i25 + 7i77
[23:30:39] <andypugh> If you look at http://www.baldor.com/support/Literature/Load.ashx/BR1202-C?LitNumber=BR1202-C
[23:30:49] <andypugh> at the block-diagram on page 15.
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[23:31:38] <andypugh> Then the FPGA will be replaced by the FPGA on the Mesa or Pico card. Then the DSP is replaced by LinuxCNC and the real-time kernel.
[23:32:32] <MacGalempsy> what do you guys think will be the hardest part of the conversion?
[23:33:42] <andypugh> Figuring out which wire is what, I suspect. Though with the ISA card pinout to go from, even that might be pretty simple.
[23:34:03] <andypugh> I actually reckon that it would be about as simple as a retrofit gets.
[23:34:12] <MacGalempsy> there is a complete pinout for the card in the user manual
[23:34:24] <andypugh> The tool-changer logic is probably the least straightforward part.
[23:35:08] <andypugh> I say buy it before someone else does and strips out all the hardware to fit Mach3, steppers and gecko drives.
[23:35:40] <MacGalempsy> it sounded like the guy could hook me up with the proprietary software if I could come up with the factory ISA card. Perhaps, I will just continue the search
[23:36:15] <andypugh> I actually think that you would find LinuxCNC to be a far more flexible and configurable solution.
[23:36:41] <andypugh> Not much scope for hacking the controller logic when it is embedded on an ISA card.
[23:37:30] <kwallace1> Is the $10k Benchman the subject? If so, what about: http://www.littlemachineshop.com/products/product_category.php?category=1241045623 ?
[23:37:33] <MacGalempsy> mostly, I am wanting a turnkey product. If it was an easy plug-in pllay deal, I may be more inclined
[23:37:50] <andypugh> You could probably make up a cable loom that allows you to connect up a LinuxCNC-supported card to the existing connector and not have to do any internal wiring changes at all.
[23:37:51] <MacGalempsy> no ATC on those
[23:38:40] <MacGalempsy> ah, actually there is
[23:38:46] <kwallace1> http://www.littlemachineshop.com/products/product_category.php?category=1963256893
[23:38:48] <andypugh> Good point though, 10k is a fair bit of cash when you can buy similar-sized stuff new for less.
[23:39:32] <MacGalempsy> there was a complete benchman up and running in may that went for 7500, so 10 with nothing seemed a little steep
[23:41:14] <kwallace1> Is a bench top class machine the goal? Full size machines can be had for the same price or less.
[23:41:45] <andypugh> Anyway, I reckon that all we can say is that is looks like a simple and chape retrofit, as you can keep all the existing hardware. Only you can say if it is the machine that you want.
[23:43:03] <MacGalempsy> I need something either single or double phase, as it will go in my garage
[23:43:31] <MacGalempsy> I like the benchman because it is enclosed, and big enough for the molds I want to make
[23:43:44] <MacGalempsy> the best part was the 20 tool ATC
[23:46:35] <andypugh> Basically there isn't a lot that LinuxCNC can't control.
[23:46:47] <kwallace1> You only need three phase for the spindle motor, adding a VFD allows one to run on 240VAC 1∅.
[23:48:32] <MacGalempsy> the benchman is 230V 2-phase
[23:48:55] <kwallace1> My machines run from a 240 VAC 40A 1∅ drop cord made from dryer bits.
[23:49:04] <MacGalempsy> you guys think 6k is too little for that machine?
[23:50:01] <kwallace1> There really is no 2-phase power since the 1920's.
[23:51:20] <andypugh> What we think doesn't matter. It's between you and the seller.
[23:52:03] <kwallace1> I would guess the benchman has a VFD to run the spindle motor.
[23:52:39] <MacGalempsy> it is a variable speed
[23:52:41] <jdh> there is a town somewhere up north with 2-phase power
[23:53:13] <MacGalempsy> i guess a better way to put it is, can I get a comparible machine for 6k?
[23:53:17] <uw> my vaca house in vt has 1 wire power
[23:53:45] <uw> MacGalempsy, what machine
[23:53:52] <MacGalempsy> to the benchman xt
[23:54:41] <uw> you mean buy out right or puttogether?
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[23:56:13] <uw> is that just an RF45 in an enclosure?
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[23:59:14] <kwallace1> I think the best buyer would be someone that already owns one and needs another working machine ready to go. I would love to have it but the price would need to come down a lot because I would need to convert it to LinuxCNC.
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