#linuxcnc | Logs for 2013-09-29

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[11:40:12] <JesusAlos> how can I move the axis with keypad?
[11:40:31] <kengu> what pad? arrows?
[11:40:45] <JesusAlos> yes arrows or letters
[11:41:03] <JesusAlos> the key pad of PC
[11:41:03] <Jymmm> and PGUP / PGDN
[11:41:12] <kengu> was there a question?
[11:41:27] <kengu> left, right, up, down and pgup, pgdown
[11:41:37] <kengu> that gives you xyz
[11:41:39] <JesusAlos> the question is if linuxcnc can associate this
[11:41:52] <kengu> does it out of the box
[11:41:52] <JesusAlos> ok
[11:41:57] <JesusAlos> sorry
[11:42:02] <JesusAlos> it run
[11:42:24] <JesusAlos> my idea is connect a usb wireless pad
[11:43:45] <archivist> you need a good excuse to use wireless as it can be unreliable
[11:44:02] <JesusAlos> I know is good idea
[11:44:16] <Jymmm> bad idea
[11:44:36] <JesusAlos> sorry. not good. yes
[11:44:41] <Jymmm> =)
[11:44:44] <JesusAlos> but can test it
[11:44:49] <archivist> there is NO wifi near any of my machines
[11:44:52] <JesusAlos> need test it
[11:44:57] <Jymmm> but you'll shoot yourself in the foot anyway, gotcha
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[11:47:22] <kengu> i backed the smoothieboard on kickstarter, http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/logxen/smoothieboard-the-future-of-cnc-motion-control and as it is at $17000 of $20000 in one day and still 15 to go I will (most probably) end up with one
[11:48:39] <kengu> then I can put it in one of the machines I don't have yet or in one of the ones I have
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[11:56:39] <JesusAlos> don't have graphical interface?
[12:01:44] <JesusAlos> I'm going to eat Paella Valenciana
[12:02:05] <JesusAlos> "que aproveche"
[12:19:24] <archivist> a real toy at the right price 151132630198
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[12:53:37] <kengu> JesusAlos: graphical in what?
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[14:03:30] <archivist> hmm the GTE v Rolls Royce fight over probing (Renishaw being mentioned as co owners of RR patent)
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[14:43:35] <Tom_itx> anybody remember the hall sensor andy used on his spindle head?
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[15:09:01] <jp_mill> has anyone seen the siemens 808D control?
[15:09:24] <JT-Shop> no
[15:09:44] <jp_mill> it's a new low end sinumerik control
[15:10:19] <JT-Shop> at least the spammer posted in the off topic section
[15:10:28] <jp_mill> they claim it's closed loop but the contol itself only sends step dir out to drives
[15:10:58] <jp_mill> i assume they tjust run the drives in position mode
[15:11:39] <jp_mill> was wonder what it might be like to try that with my mill and lcnc
[15:15:21] * JT-Shop heads out for a Mystery Ride that is sure to end up kinda wet
[15:27:42] <archivist> jp_mill, lcnc is a control, why would you want that as well
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[15:47:35] <somenewguy> doess anyone in here also use mach3?
[15:49:10] <somenewguy> alternatly, does anyone in here use a G540 drive, and know if in linuxcnc I can diable my 4th axis and use the step and dir pins as extra outputs?
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[15:50:14] <archivist> just use the parallel port or bob direct
[15:51:23] <somenewguy> so I would have to "liberate" the two wires from the G540 connection
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[15:52:13] <kengu> that is what i would do
[15:52:31] <kengu> make a BoB to pass all the others and preserve those two
[15:56:50] <archivist> step and dir pins are inputs anyway
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[16:00:00] <somenewguy> ah, BoB is not an acroynim I recognize immediatly
[16:00:17] <somenewguy> fortunatly I already have a tool to do so
[16:00:25] <somenewguy> assuming the gedner is right
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[16:01:10] <archivist> it is the part that converts parallel to the drives step dir inputs
[16:01:11] <somenewguy> archivist, depends on perspective. I wanted to control a relay, and I already have a board to control a relay using logic level signals assuming my LPT is 5v not 12
[16:01:30] <archivist> LPT is never 12v
[16:01:33] <somenewguy> bob is just a breakout board
[16:01:36] <somenewguy> ?
[16:01:40] <archivist> yes
[16:01:45] <somenewguy> I thought is used to be 12, or am I thining of serial
[16:01:50] <somenewguy> err RS232
[16:02:03] <archivist> serial/rs232 uses 12v
[16:02:07] <somenewguy> which is anything over 3.somethign- counts as high
[16:02:19] <somenewguy> which used to be up to 12, but now is basically always only 5 tops
[16:02:55] <somenewguy> but it sounds like I would need to mangle the setup a bit, I will just continue ot try and figure out why the hell my relay broke last night
[16:03:00] <archivist> it is not proper rs232 without a 12v source
[16:03:12] <somenewguy> and just order a PCI-parallell card for my extra IO needs
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[16:03:27] <somenewguy> proper, maybe not, but it meets the minimum of the standard IIRC
[16:03:34] <archivist> did you put your relay on the 4 axis drive?
[16:03:38] <somenewguy> ie it only defines a minimum high level
[16:03:47] <somenewguy> no, I was thinking about it
[16:04:02] <somenewguy> wasting one of my open collecter outputs seeemd like a waste
[16:04:03] <archivist> minimum with a defined load, that means 12v
[16:04:23] <somenewguy> I will trust you on that, I deffinatly don't konw the standard that well, thank god for wikipedia
[16:05:12] <archivist> bad implementations claiming to be to "a standard" are a pain
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[16:57:22] <IchGuckLive> hi all B)
[16:58:27] <kengu> hello
[16:59:15] <IchGuckLive> JesusAlos: ?
[17:03:14] <IchGuckLive> kengu: why dident you point jesus to the gampad to move the axis and some bottons
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[17:04:08] <IchGuckLive> wiki got lots of examples also on my youtube channel all in full detail howto
[17:06:03] <kengu> IchGuckLive: i thought i did
[17:06:51] <IchGuckLive> logs from today does not indikate that
[17:07:17] <IchGuckLive> ok he is on its own but about 50feet from his store he will get the pad
[17:09:05] <kengu> or more accurately I think the problem was solved and thus no need for extra hardware
[17:09:09] <kengu> what ever.
[17:09:51] <IchGuckLive> i see
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[18:22:15] <JesusAlos> hi
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[18:24:33] <kengu> helou
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[18:25:15] <JesusAlos> kengu: what refer IchGuckLive?
[18:25:48] <JesusAlos> is concret mark of pad?
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[18:28:19] <kengu> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?Simple_Remote_Pendant this or what? i am having hard time understanding your problems
[18:28:44] <archivist> he claims the remote pendent is ok yet at the same time he was in the other channel trying to reset the usb connection because it fails
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[18:29:24] * kengu shuts up
[18:29:44] <mhaberler> ah, easy : Interp() : _setup(setup_struct())
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[18:34:30] <CaptHindsight> pcw_home: for non-real time applications have you ever tested the USB transfer rates when using multiple 7143H's in one system?
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[19:18:40] <JesusAlos> kengu: Sorry, but my English is not very good, as you see.
[19:19:41] <JesusAlos> will try to improve
[19:19:47] <uw> the jesus
[19:20:19] <uw> aka El Jesus
[19:22:35] <JesusAlos> Ese soy yo :)
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[19:31:12] <JesusAlos> uw: de donde eres?
[19:31:49] -!- Simooon has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds]
[19:32:47] <uw> usa y tu?
[19:35:23] <JesusAlos> Spain
[19:37:54] <uw> España lo que veo Alguna vez has oido hablar de los motores Mavilor?
[19:38:10] <uw> "Sta. Perpetua de Mogoda
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[19:52:02] <JesusAlos> never
[19:52:11] <JesusAlos> are good motors?
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[20:17:05] <uw> Yo no los he usado todavía. Necesito documentación de ellos.
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[20:24:16] <JesusAlos> estan cerca de mi casa si te puedo ayudar en algo me lo dices
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[20:46:15] <jp_mill> archivist: I did not want the sinumerik control just thought it odd they were marketing what was essentially an open loop cnc controller. I was just wondering what that kind of setup would perform like
[20:47:23] <jp_mill> in the end i guess it's no different than a stepper machine just using ac servos
[20:49:50] <DaViruz> at least you (possibly) get an error if it's out of possition
[20:50:15] <DaViruz> but it does seem odd that siemens released something like that
[20:50:26] <jp_mill> The only way it would get an error is via a drive fault
[20:50:38] <DaViruz> yeah
[20:50:45] <jp_mill> the control has no feedback input
[20:50:54] <DaViruz> i get that
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[20:51:28] <jp_mill> it's supposed to be marketed against centroid and acurite type controls
[20:51:43] <jp_mill> the control is only $3500
[20:51:50] <DaViruz> i spent the better part of today mesing around with my 810M
[20:51:56] <DaViruz> and then 20 minutes machining
[20:52:09] <DaViruz> i might end up having to slam linuxcnc on that thing
[20:52:11] <jp_mill> to bad you could not load lcnc on an 808d hardware
[20:52:55] <jp_mill> the siemens MCP for the 808d is usb and cost $250
[20:54:03] <jp_mill> would make a great control panel for a lcnc setup if it could be hacked.
[20:57:00] <jp_mill> I'm almost at that point with my fanuc om-c
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[20:59:31] <DJ9DJ> gn8
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[21:04:06] <JesusAlos> for download linuxcnc source code, must be by git method?
[21:04:23] <JesusAlos> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?Installing_EMC2#Getting_the_source_with_git
[21:04:42] <JesusAlos> or there are other direct way?
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[21:19:37] <kengu> JesusAlos: look at 5. in that doc
[21:19:48] <kengu> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?Installing_EMC2#Other_ways_of_getting_the_source_code
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[21:28:28] <CaptHindsight> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/uploads/mesanet_7i43_with_jtag_connector.jpg are PIN #1 for the P3 and P4 connectors in the lower left corner of the connectors in this pic?
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[21:29:38] <CaptHindsight> ODD numbers in the lower half of the connectors and EVEN numbers in the top?
[21:29:49] <CaptHindsight> I don't have one handy at the moment
[21:30:34] <kengu> http://www.ebay.com/itm/CNC-Single-Axis-TB6600-0-2-5A-Two-Phase-Hybrid-Stepper-Motor-Driver-Controller-/271286744345 ..cheap.
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[21:39:44] <JesusAlos> gn8
[21:39:47] <JesusAlos> thank
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[21:54:30] <DaViruz> has anyone played around with linear encoders with distance coded index marks?
[21:55:05] <DaViruz> basically the scale has index points every 10mm or so, each with unique spacing
[21:55:21] <DaViruz> so you only need to pass two of them to get an absolute reference
[21:55:55] <CaptHindsight> or a closer reference
[21:56:52] <CaptHindsight> I have some analog types like that with index every cm or so
[21:57:08] <DaViruz> analog, how does that work?
[21:57:16] <DaViruz> i haven't really checked the output of these
[21:58:13] <CaptHindsight> http://www.renishaw.com/en/rgh24-linear-encoder-system--6444
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[21:58:46] <DaViruz> oh
[21:58:55] <DaViruz> 10nm resolution, that's.. ridiculous
[21:59:28] <CaptHindsight> not accounting for temperature changes
[22:00:14] <DaViruz> these are heidenhain scales, LS107
[22:00:18] <CaptHindsight> a short length of aluminum might expand by a few microns over a 20 deg change
[22:00:22] <pcw_home> Pretty sure the Renishaw ones are invar
[22:00:32] <DaViruz> TNC355 controller which is getting a bit crusty and unreliable
[22:00:43] <CaptHindsight> hi pcw
[22:00:59] <CaptHindsight> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/uploads/mesanet_7i43_with_jtag_connector.jpg are PIN #1 for the P3 and P4 connectors in the lower left corner of the connectors in this pic?
[22:01:03] <DaViruz> but the short distance homing is very nice, and i'd like to keep that if it's to be retrofitted
[22:02:42] <pcw_home> Cant remember off hand If you look at back of card, PIN 1 has a square pad
[22:03:21] <CaptHindsight> pcw_home: heh, I don't have the card handy and I'm sitting here with Allegro ready to make some gerbers for a custom board
[22:03:49] <pcw_home> standard header polarization
[22:04:07] <CaptHindsight> pcw_home: ok, just checking
[22:04:15] <CaptHindsight> some people get fancy
[22:04:46] <jp_mill> pcw_home: on a 7i77 with the db25 cable unpluged and W5 to the right my 5v supply gets draged down
[22:05:01] <jp_mill> any thoughts
[22:05:14] <CaptHindsight> pcw_home: ever test multiple 7i43's on separate USB controllers on a single motherboard?
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[22:05:56] <pcw_home> No but its unlikely to work very well as multiple USB "porta" are usually just hubs
[22:06:03] <pcw_home> ports
[22:06:25] <CaptHindsight> pcw_home: this is a chipset with multiple controllers
[22:07:00] <CaptHindsight> they split the controllers into 4 ports each with hubs
[22:07:13] <CaptHindsight> but this has 4 or 5 controllers
[22:07:28] <CaptHindsight> something like 20 USB ports total
[22:08:16] <pcw_home> jp_mill you mean external 5V wont run 7I77 by itself?
[22:08:32] <jp_mill> yes
[22:08:48] <jp_mill> its a 5A supply as well
[22:09:03] <CaptHindsight> pcw_home: another option is the 6i68 + 3x20. What's the maximum sustained data transfer rate into the FPGA?
[22:09:18] <jp_mill> but was running fine off of the 5i25
[22:09:24] <pcw_home> about 150 MB/sec
[22:09:38] <pcw_home> reverse polarity?
[22:10:06] <jp_mill> according to all of the labels no but checking with dmm now
[22:10:51] <jp_mill> poarity is fine
[22:10:52] <pcw_home> make sure you have both the 5i25 and 7I77 jumpered for external 7I77 power
[22:11:16] <jp_mill> i kept the 5125 unpluged first
[22:11:33] <jp_mill> and checked set the jumpers on it as well
[22:12:02] <pcw_home> short on external 7I77 connections?
[22:13:12] <jp_mill> thats what bothers me it was ok running off of the 5i25 30 min ago
[22:13:36] <jp_mill> was just trying to see if my count issue was due to low 5V power from 5i25
[22:13:58] <jp_mill> going to set it back and see what happens
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[22:17:18] <CaptHindsight> pcw_home: actually 8 USB host controllers, 16 ports
[22:18:11] <cmorley> Daviruz: It would require some changes in linuxcnc to use distance coded reference encoders AFAIK.
[22:18:23] <CaptHindsight> pcw_home: are there any issues with using 2 of 6i68's in the same MB?
[22:19:09] <cmorley> linuxcnc assumes reference after home is zero rather then what ever the encoder says
[22:19:18] <CaptHindsight> if you have the slots and mechanical space
[22:19:24] <DaViruz> cmorley: that's what i figured :/
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[22:20:07] <cmorley> I agree it would be nice and is doable, just a simple case of coding...:)
[22:20:22] <cmorley> I have on but have not tried it.
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[22:21:14] <pcw_home> There shoud be no issue with using as many as you have slots for
[22:21:39] <jp_mill> pcw_home: looks like the 7i77 is toast
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[22:24:36] <CaptHindsight> pcw_home: thanks, I would need 10MB sustained isochronous USB transfers for 3 - 15 devices for each device
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[22:27:09] <Tom_itx> andypugh, do you remember the PN for the hall sensor you used on your spindle?
[22:27:22] <Tom_itx> ( i think it was on a spindle )
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[22:31:24] <jp_mill> pcw_home: i stand corrected the 7i77 is fine
[22:31:42] <jp_mill> everything works fine off of the 5i25
[22:32:31] <jp_mill> should i not beable to unplug the db25 cable and set the jumper to external 5v and see the led's on the 7i77 come on?
[22:33:51] <pcw_home> Yep
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[22:35:03] <jp_mill> think i found the issue
[22:35:19] <jp_mill> I think there is a mistake in the manual
[22:36:00] <jp_mill> when i use a dmm to measure the voltage on TB1 of the 7i77 conected to the 5i25 the polarity is wrong
[22:36:34] <jp_mill> manual says pin 1 is gnd and 2 is +5V
[22:37:35] <jp_mill> dmm reads pin 1 as +5v and pin 2 as gnd
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[22:43:51] <jp_mill> pcw_home: Yep that was it. Reversed polarity on external PSU and it powers the 7i77 fine. The manual has pins for TB1 inverted.
[22:47:20] <micges> jp_mill: there should be info onboard about TB1 polarity
[22:47:42] <jp_mill> what do you mean?
[22:48:24] <micges> do you have +5V desciption near TB1?
[22:48:41] <jp_mill> there is no silkscreen for tb1
[22:48:52] <jp_mill> atleast not on my board
[22:48:54] <micges> oh
[22:49:09] <jp_mill> thats why i went by the manual
[22:50:13] <jp_mill> all is fine now i'm happy i figured it out without letting out the majic smoke
[22:51:48] <micges> do you have revision printed onbard?
[22:52:55] <jp_mill> i have it in one of those extruded plastic din rail board holders so i would have to pull it all out and that's a PITA
[22:53:16] <jp_mill> I've had this board for at least 2-3 years now
[22:54:02] <pcw_home> If it has no silkscreen power markings you must have a proto!
[22:54:27] <jp_mill> im pretty sure i got this one when you first launched them
[22:55:39] <jp_mill> is there a board art level mark on the front of them?
[22:55:53] <pcw_home> Yeah the protos had reversed power
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[22:56:33] <pcw_home> top right (I think current rev is C anything unmarked is a proto)
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[22:56:59] <jp_mill> ok so manual is good and i just need to remember mine is at proto level
[22:57:56] <jp_mill> any other gotchas i should be cognisant of?
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[22:59:35] <jp_mill> BRB gotta shut down to switch some jumpers
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[23:09:03] <jp_mill> hmm: cant figure out if i have a scaling issue or a mechanical issue.
[23:10:11] <jp_mill> Does not seem to be backlash
[23:10:34] <CaptHindsight> pcw_home: are there any 50 pin AnythingIO daughter cards that don't work with the 6i68?
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[23:14:07] <pcw_home> I dont think so
[23:14:26] <CaptHindsight> great, it looks like the safer way to go with room for expansion
[23:14:55] <uw> are there discount price for buying 5i25 and 7i77?
[23:15:23] <CaptHindsight> 8-15 7i43H's in one system is probably asking too much from the USB controllers
[23:15:48] <pcw_home> I think you get both and the cable for a giant $10.00 off
[23:16:38] <uw> i see
[23:17:35] <pcw_home> looking at 7i77 proto issues: (from 7i77.isu)
[23:17:36] <pcw_home> TB1 polarity is wrong, should be reversed.
[23:17:38] <pcw_home> u24 unused input needs termination
[23:17:39] <pcw_home> FIELD IO VBUS tap PLANE error
[23:17:41] <pcw_home> Aout5 needs ENASP not AENA
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[23:17:45] <CaptHindsight> I still need to make a custom breakout board for the 50 pin anythingIO, but it should also work with the 7i43
[23:19:53] <jp_mill> ok. i have a bp clone mill with ac servos on x and y drives are setup for torque mode. on both axis if i jog .100" increments in one direction i get readings on my heidinhain dro, .098,.102,.098,.102 always in that pattern
[23:23:02] <archivist> something bent?
[23:23:30] <archivist> what is the pitch of the screw
[23:23:36] <jp_mill> i would have to check but on both axis?
[23:23:52] <jp_mill> .200" per rev
[23:24:29] <archivist> the error is half a rev
[23:24:40] <archivist> at half a rev
[23:24:59] <uw> i think i have read something about that
[23:25:03] <uw> with those numbers
[23:25:09] <archivist> a drunk rolled ballscrew?
[23:25:14] <uw> i think it was because the screw was actually metric
[23:25:20] <uw> i'll look for it
[23:25:35] <jp_mill> these are ground preloaded hiwin's
[23:25:59] <uw> that .098 sounds familar but i could be thinking of something else
[23:27:22] <jp_mill> well maybe they are 5mm pitch
[23:27:53] <jp_mill> guess i can calc scale using 5mm pitch and check
[23:29:18] <archivist> the number sequence you gave is not one way
[23:29:53] <archivist> or was that two sequences and a scale error
[23:30:05] <jp_mill> one way
[23:30:12] <jp_mill> moving in one direction
[23:31:01] <archivist> why the huge drop .102 to .098 mid sequence .098,.102,.098,.102
[23:31:14] <archivist> I expect .2 xxx
[23:31:31] <archivist> .3 .4 I mean
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[23:32:09] <archivist> do it for a whole inch on one axis
[23:32:34] <jp_mill> ok one sec
[23:35:31] <jp_mill> .100,.202,.300,.402,.500,.602,.700,.802,.900,1.002
[23:36:17] <jp_mill> same in the revers direction
[23:38:46] <uw> i cant find anything about it sorry
[23:40:25] <archivist> the sequence for a metric screw should not be that consistent in inch error
[23:41:24] <archivist> you missed the 0 point, I would also check over a much longer distance
[23:42:14] <CaptHindsight> pcw_home: is PIN #49 always POWER? The 7i43 lists it that way but the 6i68 only lists the signals up to pin #47.
[23:42:50] <pcw_home> pin 49 is always 5V or 3.3V power (selectable)
[23:43:07] <CaptHindsight> thanks
[23:43:17] <pcw_home> and all even pins are always GND
[23:45:37] <CaptHindsight> page #3 of the 6i68 mentions it, I was just looking at the pinout pages
[23:48:40] <jp_mill> archivist: if i run a warmup program multiple times i always end up in the same spot as well. according to my dro.
[23:48:53] <andypugh> Tom_itx: The same ones as Jon Elson used. The only source I could find was eBay. http://www.ebay.com/itm/5pcs-ATS667LSGTN-T-Gear-Tooth-Sensor-IC-/161045445299?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item257f0e7ab3
[23:50:03] <Tom_itx> no magnet required?
[23:50:18] <archivist> jp_mill, consistency (back to same point) is not a proof of accuracy
[23:50:54] <andypugh> Tom_itx: Yes, that is the unique thing about those, Avago already add the magnet.
[23:51:04] <archivist> jp_mill, just means no lost steps or lost motion etc
[23:51:15] <Tom_itx> that's what i remembered about it...
[23:52:02] <jp_mill> archivist: i understand that. so i'm trying to figure our why i'm not accurate. i think i can rule out backlash
[23:52:17] <archivist> jp_mill, what type of drives? are they step dir to the servo?
[23:52:28] <Tom_itx> andypugh, did you make up a board for it?
[23:52:30] <jp_mill> no, analog
[23:53:08] <andypugh> Tom_itx: No, they connect straight to +5V 0V and GPIO.
[23:53:11] <archivist> jp_mill ok what encoder resolution
[23:53:21] <jp_mill> 2000ppr
[23:53:21] <Tom_itx> oh that's cool
[23:54:57] <jp_mill> archivist: motors are conected to screw via 3:1 timing belt
[23:57:28] <archivist> timing belt pitch error ?
[23:57:30] <Tom_itx> andypugh, is it quadrature? why the 2 output signals?
[23:58:35] <jp_mill> archivist: i was wondering that myself. Think i should just tweak input scale to tune in?
[23:59:06] <Tom_itx> andypugh, http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/ATS667LSGTN-T/620-1328-6-ND/2042763
[23:59:16] <archivist> jp_mill, if you take a few thousand measurements and do a fourier transform you will see all the error frequencies from the various sources
[23:59:18] <andypugh> Tom_itx: There is a "test" pin. Generally left unconnected. (probably analogue level)
[23:59:38] <archivist> jp_mill, that is not a scale error thought it is regular