#linuxcnc | Logs for 2013-09-18

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[01:49:01] <joebog> anybody still outa bed ?
[01:49:34] <joebog> IM804 driver boards help
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[02:12:20] <jdh> is there something special about them?
[02:14:04] <joebog> I dont know :) I just pulled the Cipher controller apart to make a Linux driver from a widowz controller
[02:14:30] <uw> wat?
[02:14:45] <joebog> so I have the power supply and 3 controller boards
[02:15:23] <joebog> I also have a MESA 5 axis setup that I want to use to interface the PC to the driver bhoards
[02:15:46] <joebog> just use the Mesa breakout board is what I mean
[02:15:53] <joebog> IF its possible of course
[02:27:15] <uw> which board?
[02:27:20] <uw> and which card?
[02:30:58] <joebog> I have 3 IM804 driver cards that I obtained by stripping them out of the windowz controller
[02:31:23] <joebog> Ive just spent 10 mins trying to find the number for the breakout board
[02:31:41] <joebog> I "think" its 5i33 or maybe 7i33
[02:31:53] <joebog> but the damn board hasnt got part numbers
[02:32:31] <joebog> http://www.cncgeeker.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=1&products_id=43&zenid=4166c0b02876b8246523eeff2453cacd
[02:33:18] <joebog> those rae the boards I bought to basically "test" the machine ( a engraving machine) which I want to turn into a mill
[02:33:35] <joebog> PLUS add a 4th channel for an idexing chuck
[02:33:59] <joebog> the engraver is a Newing Hall Pantocut
[02:34:07] <joebog> indexing even
[02:34:22] <uw> i almost bought the same exact thing as on that cncgeeker.com link
[02:34:40] <uw> but i was able to fix my optidriver to work instead
[02:34:41] <joebog> it works nicely, BUT voltage is a bit low
[02:35:01] <joebog> I was discussing it with Andy in england, but I guess hes in bed
[02:35:05] <joebog> Im in australia
[02:35:07] <uw> can you overdrive it?
[02:35:09] <uw> gday
[02:35:28] <joebog> the 5 channel boards are 35 volts max
[02:35:37] <joebog> the IM804 are 75 volts
[02:35:42] <joebog> much better speed !!
[02:35:49] <uw> what volts do youw ant to run at? 75?
[02:36:06] <uw> will your steppers take that?
[02:36:28] <joebog> the Cipher controller that I pulled to bits, and WAS running the engraver ran about 45 volts
[02:36:38] <jdh> they look like normal step/dir drives with optos. Should be able to just swap wires.
[02:36:39] <joebog> I have pirated the power supply from there as well
[02:37:19] <joebog> yep jdh thats what Im hoping, but andy wrote the software for the Mesa cards
[02:37:23] <joebog> he will know :)
[02:37:30] <uw> yea i would just edit the boards and push it to the limit
[02:37:44] <jdh> it isn't a software issue.
[02:37:47] <jdh> but, whatever.
[02:38:04] <uw> i dont think you need to get a mesa combo (even though they are quality devices IMO)
[02:38:17] <joebog> nope it isnt, BUT andy has built LOTS of machines with many different controllers
[02:38:18] <uw> but if you want to spend some money on something go nuts
[02:38:49] <uw> oh so you want his help specifically?
[02:39:00] <joebog> the 5 channel controller and 5 6560 boards is $129
[02:39:07] <joebog> took 4 days from the states
[02:39:50] <joebog> nope uw but he is the one that has been my mentor since I started tyhe project :)
[02:40:26] <joebog> I have repaired many machines but never built one from scratch
[02:42:20] <joebog> I did build a test setup with the Mesa kit from cncgeeker and it seems to work fine
[02:43:01] <joebog> the machine had most of the wiring hacked out of it, so the Mesa setup was a cheapo way to see if it was worth spending more money on
[02:44:11] <uw> mesa was the cheapo way?
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[02:46:18] <joebog_> sorry guys :) kicked the power off
[02:47:02] <uw> oh that link was the mesa kit?
[02:47:15] <uw> i'm pretty confused here
[02:47:26] <uw> probably should finish this other thing anyway
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[02:48:42] <joebog_> http://s80.photobucket.com/user/amp_mangler/library/linuxcnc_fitting?sort=3&page=1
[02:48:44] <joebog_> some pics
[02:49:05] <joebog_> what ya doin uw ?
[03:00:19] <joebog_> .
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[03:04:25] <joebog_> http://s80.photobucket.com/user/amp_mangler/library/linuxcnc_fitting
[03:04:36] <joebog_> should have used that link :(
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[03:20:07] <somenewguy> soooo
[03:20:15] <somenewguy> is it true a laptop is a hopeless mill driving machine?
[03:20:48] <somenewguy> I figured that comment I found on th wiki somewhere was just dated, since my pentium 4 was running the mill good enough, that a modestly modern laptop should cut the mustard
[03:20:52] <somenewguy> or hopefully aluminum
[03:21:20] <Tom_itx> maybe if it has a parallel port and good latency
[03:21:45] <Tom_itx> i'd be sure all the power saving features were off for sure
[03:22:30] <somenewguy> hmmm ok, I will burn a 32bit live cd and run a test
[03:22:43] <somenewguy> this machine can't live off the power cord for more than 5 minutes, so no problems there
[03:23:00] <Tom_itx> i'm running 8.04 on one of my pcs because 10.04 doesn't work on it
[03:23:31] <Chemeleon> the trick would seem to be finding a laptop with a parallel port, that isnt also extremely slow
[03:23:40] <Chemeleon> I cant remember the last time I saw a parallel port on a laptop
[03:23:41] <somenewguy> I have one of those!
[03:24:05] <Tom_itx> well the live cd will tell
[03:24:06] <somenewguy> it is surprisingly fast for its specs, saved it because it had a parallel port, and the best mouse layout of any laptop ever
[03:24:20] <somenewguy> "4" mouse buttons and a clit mouse, no touchpad
[03:24:34] <somenewguy> hmmm, there is no 64bit linuxcnc? cool
[03:24:52] <Tom_itx> they're working on one i believe
[03:25:17] <somenewguy> probably not all that necasary, but good to know
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[03:25:39] <somenewguy> how well does the g-ccode generator work? can I make a decent tool path from an STL?
[03:25:40] <Tom_itx> i'd toss a mesa card off the parallel port if it's a good enough pc
[03:25:42] <NickParker> what's something fun I can get on amazon for $5? Found some of these stupid gift cards around.
[03:25:57] <somenewguy> or does it just make basic machining easier, like Mach3 does
[03:26:01] <Tom_itx> NickParker, shipping?
[03:26:06] <NickParker> i have prime
[03:26:14] <NickParker> hence amazon
[03:26:19] <somenewguy> I have seen pcb milling programs, I am super excited about those, but I was hoping to make complicating items
[03:26:41] <Tom_itx> eagle will generate a toolpath for that i believe
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[03:27:03] <Chemeleon> need any cheap router bits?
[03:27:18] <Chemeleon> if you want to stretch it, I'd look around the amazon warehouse side of things
[03:27:18] <Tom_itx> ebay sells used ones
[03:27:37] <somenewguy> also I remeber reading I can't run a simulated parallel port, it had to be real
[03:27:45] <somenewguy> or waht is a mesa card?
[03:27:56] <Tom_itx> offloads the work to the card
[03:28:07] <Tom_itx> makes it a nicer setup
[03:28:16] <somenewguy> 'work' as in pulse train, or work as in motor control?
[03:28:22] <Tom_itx> i used a 7i43
[03:28:27] <somenewguy> I am reaind the wiki now, but its a touch conusing
[03:28:30] <Tom_itx> motor control etc
[03:28:35] <Tom_itx> mesanet.com
[03:28:41] <somenewguy> so it would replace the gecko drive I have now
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[03:29:18] <Tom_itx> RifRaf, kat was looking for you for advice on solar pannels
[03:29:26] <NickParker> somenewguy: what gecko drive do you have?
[03:29:32] <NickParker> linuxcnc can almost certainly interface with it
[03:29:34] <somenewguy> 540?
[03:29:47] <somenewguy> I might be getting that number wrong
[03:30:00] <somenewguy> yeap, g540
[03:30:07] <Tom_itx> there's something about that one that is a bit tricky i think
[03:30:11] <RifRaf> Tom_itx, ok cheers
[03:30:17] <somenewguy> a little limited on the number of inputs, but I think plenty powerfull enoug hfor me
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[03:30:31] <somenewguy> more than a little surpsied at how low its current capabilities are tho, a pololu almost sinks more lol
[03:30:46] <somenewguy> but it works fine for my mill so I am not planing on upgrading
[03:30:56] <Tom_itx> RifRaf, in rue's little channel
[03:30:56] <RifRaf> is anyone in here making or has made a mechmate? have started on it as a new project
[03:31:05] <NickParker> somenewguy: what sort of motors are you using on that little current?
[03:31:09] <RifRaf> Tom_itx, after work will pop in
[03:31:11] <somenewguy> just need to stuff one of my relay boards into the switch box for the spindle so I don't have to keep flipping on and off a light swtich and the beggning of a operation
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[03:31:18] <somenewguy> NEMA 23s
[03:31:24] <somenewguy> iirc they are drawing under 2 amps
[03:31:48] <somenewguy> have not measured it tho, based it off info the PO gave me, I still need to re-wire the whole thing, the guy was a bit of a hack
[03:33:43] <somenewguy> my reprap has a MUCH larger PSU tho, this thing is a baby
[03:35:24] <somenewguy> it is a Taig cnc mill, Ithink the whole PSU is fused at 7 amps
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[03:38:16] <somenewguy> ... although it occurs to me I never actually looked at the voltage those motors are running at. Taig really si sparse on the specs
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[03:40:17] <somenewguy> can LinuxCNC to operater tool changes?
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[03:41:05] <somenewguy> like can I have a Mcode or macro that jogs the machine up to a good height and waits for a button press saying "hey I swapped in your new cutter, time to re-zero Z and continue?"
[03:49:13] <joebog_> I cant see why not newguy
[03:49:51] <somenewguy> so what your saying is I actually need to do work
[03:49:56] <somenewguy> no such thing already exists
[03:50:06] <joebog_> heh heh heh :D
[04:00:47] <somenewguy> can't wait for my snap switches to come in, then I get to re-wire everything, add home switches to the axis and start thinking about building a Z-hight probe
[04:02:30] <somenewguy> http://www.cnccookbook.com/MTCNCTipsTechniques.htm
[04:02:33] <somenewguy> soo close, yet so far
[04:11:23] <CaptHindsight> http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/gcode/m-code.html M Codes
[04:12:25] <CaptHindsight> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?ToolChange Overview of the Toolchange process
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[04:13:27] <CaptHindsight> somenewguy: lots to read :)
[04:14:08] <somenewguy> Sooooo much to read
[04:14:09] <somenewguy> no time to do it
[04:14:36] <somenewguy> BUT I recently found a way to use my mill for work work (read: might pay for itself) so suddenly it is much easier to justify time spent playing with it
[04:14:43] <somenewguy> and a tiny bit easier to justify spending money on it.
[04:15:08] <CaptHindsight> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bFod8rs3QYE here's a pretty simple one .... toolchanger in action
[04:15:48] <somenewguy> my machine is no where near that fancy
[04:15:50] <somenewguy> ... yet
[04:15:54] <somenewguy> damn er16 collet
[04:16:29] <somenewguy> mostly I need to get those home switches in there, so I can make my soft lmiits acutally be usefull and stop loosing steps when I accidently ram the physical limits of hte machine....
[04:17:15] <somenewguy> also I need to bite the bullte and do a ground-up reconfig of the machine and get my wiring cleaned up, ditch mach3 and get linuxCNC running things, etc etc
[04:17:27] <somenewguy> build my splash shiled so I can get real cooling installed, etc etc
[04:18:02] <somenewguy> what do you call the nut that holds on the colllet on an er16 setup?
[04:18:18] <CaptHindsight> a nut :)
[04:18:20] <somenewguy> if I bought a few extras of those I could have reasonably constant tool heights, good enough for the work I am currently doing
[04:18:48] <somenewguy> ...oh look at that, first hit
[04:19:00] <CaptHindsight> http://www.maritool.com/m10/MariTool/p45/ER16-COLLET-NUT/product_info.html
[04:19:05] <somenewguy> a whopping 5 bucks
[04:19:23] <somenewguy> are they ALL the same, mostly the same, or buyer beware?
[04:19:30] <somenewguy> I am very new to the minimill/CNC world
[04:19:56] <CaptHindsight> some are hex some are like these http://www.mscdirect.com/product/42055152?src=pla&008=-99&007=Search&pcrid=15557577904&006=15557577904&005=21882504424&004=4409695744&002=2167139&mkwid=sJXegN7a0|dc&cid=PLA-Google-PLA+-+Test_sJXegN7a0_PLA__15557577904_c_S&026=nv&025=c
[04:20:24] <somenewguy> do they have more clearence, or just another standard and look cooler?
[04:20:37] <somenewguy> also will I regret buying 2 or 3 of the 5 dollar ones on amazon?
[04:20:43] <CaptHindsight> smaller dia
[04:20:43] <somenewguy> http://www.amazon.com/Amico-Collet-Clamping-Milling-Holder/dp/B00C94GSKG/ref=sr_1_cc_1?s=aps&ie=UTF8&qid=1379477909&sr=1-1-catcorr&keywords=er16+nut
[04:21:08] <somenewguy> I would assume the taper in the holder and the collet itself are the imporant parts, the nut is just for pressure
[04:21:12] <somenewguy> but I have been known to be wrong
[04:21:20] <somenewguy> but 10X the price is no small difference
[04:21:20] <Chemeleon> if you used a lead screw with .1" lead, would 425ozin nema23 steppers be able to spin it fast enough for 300 ipm cut speeds, or would the torque falloff long before you hit those rpm?
[04:21:25] <CaptHindsight> some specs list being balanced to 20K rpm
[04:22:51] <somenewguy> .......
[04:22:56] <somenewguy> would YOU run the 5 dollar one?
[04:23:21] <CaptHindsight> 0.1" lead gives you 3000 rpm = 300 ipm
[04:23:29] <Chemeleon> yea, sounds very high to me
[04:23:38] <Chemeleon> I just found it *really* cheap though (might be a price mistake its so cheap)
[04:23:44] <somenewguy> I would love to have 4 of em for the same price as the one you linked to, and then have 4 preset tools
[04:24:27] <Chemeleon> about $4/foot shipped, vs $10/foot + shipping for the roton screws I planned to use
[04:25:20] <somenewguy> man I am never gonna sleep again, this toy, errr tool, is too much fun
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[04:35:51] <CaptHindsight> you could use the stepper to spin a flywheel and then use the flywheel to turn the leadscrew :)
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[04:36:09] <Chemeleon> bit too complex :)
[04:36:22] <Chemeleon> would knock $50 off this build if this would work which would be nice
[04:36:28] <CaptHindsight> heh
[04:36:32] <Chemeleon> but just seems like I'd be killing any chance for the higher speeds I want :\
[04:36:48] <Chemeleon> debating grabbing a few sticks of it at this price just to save for future projects
[04:36:59] <CaptHindsight> look for a used servo
[04:37:16] <Chemeleon> for some reason, the .5" lead version is more than 5x as expensive
[04:37:33] <Chemeleon> alas, I'm trying to ensure all materials sourced can be easily duplicated by others for similar prices
[04:37:39] <Chemeleon> so cant rely on used stuff
[04:37:48] <CaptHindsight> what dia. lead screw?
[04:37:54] <Chemeleon> .5
[04:37:56] <Chemeleon> "
[04:38:15] <Chemeleon> http://www.cadcamcadcam.com/cncmachinecomponents.aspx
[04:38:18] <Chemeleon> I suspect its a price mistake
[04:38:24] <Chemeleon> because 2' and 3' are both $11, 6' is $15
[04:38:29] <Chemeleon> and shipping for 6' is less than 3'
[04:39:12] <Chemeleon> would be about $70 shipped for 3 6' pieces of it
[04:39:13] <CaptHindsight> https://www.surpluscenter.com/item.asp?item=1-2983-50-3&catname=powerTrans
[04:39:55] <Chemeleon> interesting... :)
[04:40:02] <Chemeleon> do they regularly have that in stock do you know?
[04:40:06] <CaptHindsight> I have some of those
[04:40:52] <CaptHindsight> https://www.surpluscenter.com/item.asp?item=1-2983-50-6&catname=
[04:40:58] <Chemeleon> maybe its not a price mistake at imservice afterall
[04:41:10] <CaptHindsight> 1/2"-10 X 72" ACME $15.95
[04:41:12] <Chemeleon> good to know though, does away with any impetuous to order a bunch just because its cheap :)
[04:41:48] <CaptHindsight> http://www.dumpstercnc.com/
[04:42:02] <Chemeleon> yup, used their stuff and roton screws for my first machine
[04:42:10] <Chemeleon> this n ext one just going to make nuts and couplings by hand I think
[04:42:23] <Chemeleon> significantly cheaper and seems simple enough
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[05:00:51] <somenewguy> so is mist cooling the prefered way to go over flood?
[05:01:20] <somenewguy> I am probbly going to enclose my mill on 4 sides in an aold converted parts washer, so either way I am going to have a full enclosure
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[05:01:54] <somenewguy> but I don't want to do the work twice. I had assumed flood was better and mist was a half way point, but it looks like it is a trade off, looking fori nput
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[05:07:07] <Chemeleon> I've just done wood so far, so no experiance with either here
[05:08:25] <Valen> somenewguy: depends on what you are doing really
[05:08:36] <Valen> flood will do chip clearing better
[05:08:39] <somenewguy> a lot of everything unforuntatly
[05:08:40] <Valen> but it is messy
[05:09:09] <somenewguy> mostly aluminum, some steel, more plastic than expected, and suddenly it looksl ike I am doing some SS as well, god help me
[05:09:26] <somenewguy> I had assumed flood was better in every way
[05:09:31] <Valen> mist isn't good for your lungs keep in mind
[05:09:43] <somenewguy> hence opting to go with the converted parts tank
[05:09:53] <somenewguy> so you would say given the choice, go flood?
[05:10:23] <Valen> we have flood, i have no experience with mist
[05:10:50] <somenewguy> I should probably just go flood
[05:11:09] <somenewguy> I wonder if the steppers are splash proof, time for more reading
[05:11:26] <somenewguy> gotta do something to kill the time till my limit switches come in, Z height probe here I come!
[05:11:34] <Chemeleon> http://chemeleon.net/usms_wip2.jpg just took this off the machine, 12" diameter
[05:11:36] <Valen> pshaw who needs limit switches
[05:11:44] <somenewguy> *home
[05:11:47] <Chemeleon> little sanding to do on this one for some reason, not sure why it didnt come out as smooth as my other carvings
[05:11:50] <Valen> nice
[05:11:53] <somenewguy> I don't have enough inputs for lmit switches lol
[05:11:55] <somenewguy> nice
[05:12:10] <Chemeleon> good excuse to try making a sanding mop I guess :)
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[05:53:55] <somenewguy> I know there is no 64 bit version, but will linuxcnc not run on 64 bit machine?
[05:54:18] <somenewguy> I just want to generate some g-code on my desktopand move it over to my other machine that actually controls the mill
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[06:56:34] <DJ9DJ> moin
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[07:00:32] <ReadError> good morning sir
[07:01:00] <DJ9DJ> good morning ReadError :-)
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[07:20:01] <kengu> morning
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[08:12:12] <false> If it's not gonna run the mill you can install a virtual machine on VirtualBox
[08:12:31] <false> good morning
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[15:46:04] <Loetmichel> re @ home
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[16:48:05] <JT-Shop> lunch time
[16:48:41] <archivist_> tea time!
[16:48:46] <gene78> Hi guys
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[16:51:42] <gene78> I apparently do NOT understand the coordinate systems well enough to be trusted with a keyboard.
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[16:52:02] <IchGuckLive> hi all
[16:53:58] <IchGuckLive> tomorrow is a holiday in china
[16:54:18] <gene78> A very carefully calculated X offset applied to the G56 map, calced to compensate for pcb-gcodes use of a minus sign to reverse mirror the bottom of a board, is off by nearly 2.6"
[16:55:13] <jthornton> Yikes!
[16:55:14] <IchGuckLive> gene78: why on G56 not G54
[16:55:36] <IchGuckLive> gene78: did you reset al coorinates to G51
[16:56:08] <IchGuckLive> G53 of cause Mashine coordinates
[16:59:13] <gene78> G54 is the home base for my holefinder routine, but because the contact point holefinder uses is -.3x and -.1 y from the pcb-gcode knowledge of the edge/corner of the board, I set g55 to be used to carve the top of a board, and g56 to offsets that will make the mirrored -x bottom register with the +x top locations.
[17:01:38] <IchGuckLive> gene78: did your pcb cam not put 2 files top and bottom
[17:02:04] <gene78> The g53 stuff shown in section 3.5.3 has been run, repeatedly.
[17:02:47] <gene78> pcb-gcode poutput bot files with a -X but otherwise matches the top for the drill files
[17:04:47] <IchGuckLive> is thiss a turnover Fr4 holder
[17:05:34] <IchGuckLive> i mill and drill the bottem first then turn over and mill the bottem with the new zero
[17:05:48] <IchGuckLive> 2nd top O.O
[17:05:48] <gene78> What I have on the table right now is a small board, with the first hole drilled all the way thru. Load the bot.drill, and its off 1.4" when the drill is -.020 into the hole.
[17:06:33] <IchGuckLive> there is g56 in the Gcode ?
[17:06:43] <IchGuckLive> in both
[17:06:56] -!- MrHindsight [MrHindsight!~2020@unaffiliated/capthindsight] has joined #linuxcnc
[17:07:00] <IchGuckLive> also set it after tool change
[17:07:37] <gene78> Its a pallet I made, from 1/2" micarta, bottom keyed to a table slot, top has board pocket milled to exactly fit board, 0-80 holddown bolts yada yadda
[17:08:11] <IchGuckLive> nice
[17:09:17] <gene78> So when the board is turned over, the new reference corner becomes a point 1.149" to the right from the reference corner g55 used.
[17:10:50] <gene78> Question ATM is can I set g55, then set G56 to be x+1.149 from G55?
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[17:11:58] <gene78> IOW, does a G10 Lx set from machine co-ords, or from the co-ords in use ATM?
[17:12:20] <gene78> IOW, does a G10 L2 Px set from machine co-ords, or from the co-ords in use ATM?
[17:14:11] <gene78> Or can I rescue this job right now with a G10 L20 P3 x-0.2
[17:15:47] <gene78> And that did not work.
[17:16:23] <gene78> It set the dot for the tool about 2" left of the loaded drill patterns dots
[17:17:19] <IchGuckLive> IBM goes 1 Bil for Linux
[17:18:05] <IchGuckLive> gene78: if you can make a picture of the fixing so we can see the local issues
[17:18:59] <CaptHindsight> IchGuckLive: did you get your Mooncakes?
[17:19:18] <IchGuckLive> from the plasma YES
[17:20:39] <IchGuckLive> CaptHindsight: this morning at 10am one of the cheep plasmas failed no burn at all after 750+ hours
[17:22:46] <gene78> what I am seeing is that there is no motion of the tool dot location in the backplot regardless of what offset I assign in x with a G10 L20 P3 x# command
[17:25:40] <IchGuckLive> reload the g-code
[17:26:49] <IchGuckLive> gene78: dont you got a simple g-code shifter
[17:27:26] <gene78> Just did, fixed it I believe. No idea why it didn't seem to effect it the other 8 or 10 times I reloaded. Thanks. And no
[17:28:18] <gene78> Anyway, gonna try and finish the job, thanks for listening.
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[17:31:34] <IchGuckLive> gene78: http://code.google.com/p/grecode/
[17:31:53] <IchGuckLive> thats a must have TOOL
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[17:40:17] <ReadError> i think i learned, cambam lets you rotate gcode
[17:40:23] <ReadError> it lets you import gcode atleast...
[17:40:30] <ReadError> but i use grecode as well
[17:41:23] <IchGuckLive> B)
[17:43:16] <gene78> maybe, but this worked very well indeed. And I have in the past, used this to rotate code too. Now that I know about it, just putting a know hole all the way thru, then turning to board over, put the drill into the hole and use the G10L20Px to put it where it belongs will be much faster.
[17:44:11] <gene78> For one offs anyway, this one is probably a 2 off. If it works, send it out to a board house for 50 of them ;-)
[17:45:22] <andypugh> I send out to a board house for 1. (I have 10 made, though)
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[17:46:13] <jdh> milling PCBs is such a nice sounding idea.
[17:47:09] <IchGuckLive> yeah http://foengarage.de/pcb.jpg
[17:48:34] <Loetmichel> IchGuckLive: lokks more or less good
[17:48:54] <IchGuckLive> less of cause
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[17:49:07] <Loetmichel> a bit like not the same engraving depth on all parts
[17:49:10] <IchGuckLive> its me how did this so bad at all
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[17:50:45] <Loetmichel> jdh: can even be done with tinned surface for durability and parts "print"
[17:50:57] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=799
[17:51:07] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=804
[17:51:11] <IchGuckLive> pcb printing is fine
[17:51:20] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=814
[17:51:40] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=809
[17:51:43] <IchGuckLive> oh you milled a uhu
[17:51:53] <IchGuckLive> its 8 euros the board
[17:51:57] <Loetmichel> (parts print is made by toner transfer)
[17:52:27] <IchGuckLive> ah
[17:52:44] <andypugh> $10 10 days 10 boards from China. I can normally find some other thing to do while i wait.
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[17:53:13] <IchGuckLive> 10 days is in germany 2month O.O
[17:53:21] <Loetmichel> andypugh: 10 days... MUCH to long ;-)
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[17:54:13] <andypugh> I have found that things are rarely as urgent as they seem. The number of things I have bought on urgent overnight delivery and then not got back to for weeks...
[17:54:20] <Loetmichel> and the german pcb manufacturers are insane for single digit prodution runs and short lead time
[17:55:14] <Loetmichel> i have payed about 50 eurs for a simple 50*60mm print because of being urgent (1 day +delivery)
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[18:04:53] <IchGuckLive> ok im off by
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[18:24:45] <andypugh> This is pretty cool
[18:24:48] <andypugh> http://youtu.be/DfznnKUwywQ
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[18:30:20] <einar> Good evening.
[18:30:35] <einar> Does anyone know how to repair X?
[18:31:45] <andypugh> As in the windowing system or the axis?
[18:32:33] <andypugh> Have you been tinkering with xorg.conf?
[18:32:40] <einar> Window system. I found a fix for a veeeery slow Radeon board. Now it seems linuxCNC have X trouble.
[18:33:55] <einar> It says ijn terminal window:
[18:33:58] <einar> X Error of failed request: BadRequest (invalid request code or no such operation)
[18:33:58] <einar> Major opcode of failed request: 135 (GLX)
[18:33:58] <einar> Minor opcode of failed request: 19 (X_GLXQueryServerString)
[18:34:11] <andypugh> If you added an xorg.conf or xorg.conf.d then just delete (or rename them) and reboot.
[18:34:26] <einar> Where to look?
[18:34:49] <andypugh> Well, I would guess you would know if you had created them..
[18:35:32] <andypugh> What did you actually do?
[18:35:33] <einar> No. But the video installer seems to have done strange things.
[18:35:45] <psha> libgl1-mesa-glx?
[18:35:49] <psha> oops
[18:35:54] <psha> -swx11?
[18:36:15] <psha> software rendering
[18:36:28] <andypugh> There might be some hints here: http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?TroubleShooting#Display_Issues
[18:36:39] <einar> amd-driver-installer-12-1-x86.x86_64.run <- This program
[18:36:44] <psha> whee
[18:36:45] <psha> kill it
[18:36:47] <psha> burn it
[18:37:00] <psha> don't even try to use fglrx with linuxcnc
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[18:37:37] <einar> Wow!! Lots of words I don't understand here. :-(
[18:38:01] <psha> look at andypugh's link
[18:38:10] <psha> there are some solutions for common GL problems
[18:38:27] <psha> bb
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[18:38:34] <andypugh> As a first step try just deleting /etc/X11/xorg.conf
[18:40:36] <einar> No .conf in that directory.
[18:41:38] <andypugh> In that case try the steps in 5.1 at the link I posted.
[18:42:38] <einar> I already tried. When hitting CTRL+ALT+F1 (or F2) screen went black. Permanently.
[18:43:30] <andypugh> Not even a terminal prompt?
[18:44:21] <einar> Nothing! I tried CTRL+ALT+DEL. Rebooted. Only way out.
[18:44:30] <andypugh> (I am afraid that this area of Linux is unfamiliar to me too)
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[18:45:34] <andypugh> rebooting, holding down shift, then choosing the recovery console in the grub menu might work.
[18:46:05] <einar> I'll try.
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[18:46:17] <andypugh> Or, you might just be able to uninstall the new driver in the package manager.
[18:46:31] <andypugh> Too late!
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[18:57:42] <Einar> Now running Xchat on my Windows laptop instead.
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[18:58:20] <andypugh> You disappeared prior to me saying "andypugh: Or, you might just be able to uninstall the new driver in the package manager."
[18:58:37] <Einar> The shift on bootup left me in an environment I know nothing about.
[18:58:56] <andypugh> That's the grub menu.
[18:59:16] <andypugh> You can choose kernels (and whole operating systems0 there.
[19:00:43] <Einar> Can I boot into a terminal (No X)?
[19:01:14] <andypugh> I thought so. Haven't tried for a while.
[19:01:34] <andypugh> You really need a Linux Geek. (I am a Mac dude :-)
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[19:10:03] <Einar> So. I took out the Radeon card and use the mobo video. Now I have a terminal window. Trying the instructions in the link now.
[19:10:41] <andypugh> Any reason not to just use the mobo video full-time?
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[19:14:23] <Einar> It said somewhere in the documentation it was not recommended.
[19:18:56] <Tom_itx> mac dudes are geeks too
[19:20:45] <andypugh> Mobo video has been known to cause problems, but it has also been known to work absolutely fine. Try a latency test using mobo video and using the Radeon card, and see if there is a difference.
[19:22:06] <Tom_itx> have you heard of anybody using a laptop for lcnc sucessfully?
[19:22:41] <cradek> a few P3 processor laptops worked fine
[19:22:46] <Einar> It seems fine, yes. 46000 Servo thread max jitter. It is 790000 on the other PC!
[19:22:46] <andypugh> I think some folk have been lucky.
[19:22:59] <cradek> the newer they are, the more power saving tricks are needed, and the less likely they are to work
[19:23:29] <Tom_itx> somebody was inquiring earlier, possibly last evening
[19:23:47] <Tom_itx> i suggested turning off all power saving if possible
[19:24:12] <CaptHindsight> yeah, you want all the power management and speed stepping turned off and it doesn't help if there is no BIOS setting to disable them
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[19:25:03] <joebog> morning all
[19:25:29] <joebog> Andy, will that breakout caed I bought mate up OK with the Cipher boards
[19:25:40] <joebog> caed = card
[19:26:06] <andypugh> I don't know. Did we figure out what the pins are on the cipher cards?
[19:27:28] <joebog> yup, all I need do is make a connection between direction speed etc to the relevant pins on the Cipher boards ?
[19:27:47] <joebog> I have good data on the Cipher cards !!!
[19:27:56] <CaptHindsight> Einar: what cpu and chipset? just out of curiosity
[19:29:22] <Einar> It says Intel Core2 6300 @ 1.86GHz
[19:29:25] <andypugh> joebog: So, what are the pins?
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[19:31:01] <joebog> I will try find the data, Im home, the stuff I need is at gunsmiths shop :)
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[19:33:17] <CaptHindsight> Einar: I have boards start out worse than your results and ended up <10uS after all the tweaks
[19:33:42] <andypugh> I think the answer is probably "yes" anyway, though if the pins are diret phase drive you might find that the parallel port has too few pins.
[19:33:47] <CaptHindsight> Einar: some never got much better
[19:34:33] <CaptHindsight> Einar: http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?Latency-Test go through all the troubleshooting and tweaking steps on the wiki
[19:35:30] <joebog> the mesa breakout board has 6 pin connectors to each driver board
[19:36:29] <joebog> tracing out the Cipher boards yesterday the driver boards have 4 connections for driving plus 3 connections for current limit and current set
[19:36:56] <andypugh> joebog: I am still fairly sure you don't have a Mesa breakout board.
[19:36:59] <joebog> what is on the Mesa card I dont know yet
[19:38:27] <joebog> OK Ill try get into town early so I dont inconvenience ypou and find out
[19:38:44] <joebog> the setup I bought is REALLY short on data
[19:39:06] <joebog> prolly why its 129$
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[19:39:17] <andypugh> Mesa cards have very comprehensive manuals, and they don't make any simple breakout boards, that't not their market.
[19:40:22] <andypugh> I think you have a generic parallel port breakout, and I also suspect that if the Cipher cards are 4-pin drive (a pin for each phase) then you will run out of pins.
[19:41:12] <joebog> the cipher boards are IL708 or something similar
[19:41:30] <joebog> from intelligent motion systems
[19:42:08] <joebog> I dont know what the 6 pin header connectors are on the "mesa" cards do
[19:42:27] <joebog> they dont explain that !!!
[19:42:30] <joebog> its sort of designed to be plug n play
[19:43:21] <andypugh> Probably the rest of the parallel port pins, there are only 17 of them.
[19:44:32] <jdh> they are step/dir drives, with built in optos
[19:46:23] <jdh> http://www.servovision.com/MC/im804.pdf
[19:46:30] <joebog> what I have in mind is to try follow tracks on thye mesa PCB to determine what does what and in conjunction with the chips data sheet on the "mesa" breakout card
[19:46:48] <jdh> there is no mesa
[19:47:34] <joebog> thats the card jdh thanks
[19:48:12] <andypugh> Great, it's a standard step-dir drive, that makes life easier.
[19:48:49] <joebog> I started building new PSU as well 30 volt AC from the transformer so around 42 volts or so for the driver boards the transformer also has 12 volt winding for opto supply
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[19:49:52] <joebog> I will have to fit the current limit resistors as they are on the cipher mother board with associated switched resistors
[19:50:55] <joebog> transformer rated @ 30 volts 10 amps and 12 volts 1 amp locally made
[19:51:36] <joebog> BUT I wonder what temperature rise will be at that rating the transformer core must run 1.4 Tesla which I consider too high
[19:51:44] <andypugh> Was the original PSU making that voltage? Those are 75V drivers.
[19:52:01] <joebog> the traffo is from the Cipher unit
[19:52:18] <joebog> I stripped it :)
[19:52:46] <joebog> useless piece of windowz crap anyway
[19:52:59] <joebog> 5 fonts for $7500 !!!!!!!!!
[19:53:08] <joebog> kindy ripoff if ya ask me !!!
[19:53:11] <andypugh> The stepper drivers look pretty good to me. I would certainly try to keep them.
[19:53:26] <andypugh> Better than a TB6560 anyway.
[19:53:48] <joebog> yep they are being used and if all works well withLCNC Ill buy more for the infdexing head
[19:54:02] <joebog> 6 amps RMS and 6 amps peak
[19:54:08] <skunkworks> There is a nasty virus going around.. it encripts you files with rsa 2048 encription and then charges you $300 to un-encript them...
[19:54:27] <skunkworks> CryptoLocker
[19:54:29] <andypugh> Does it affect OSX or Linux?
[19:54:34] <skunkworks> no :)
[19:54:47] <jdh> skunkworks: email skunkworks@nsa.gov and ask them to send you their last copy of your data.
[19:54:51] <andypugh> So why did you bother mentioning it :-)
[19:55:02] <skunkworks> ;)
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[19:56:01] <andypugh> You know you have a problem when things arrive from eBay that you don't remember buying, and can't remember why you wanted them :-)
[19:56:02] <joebog> er 4 amps RMS
[19:56:21] <jdh> I have that problem with bubble-wrap envelopes from china
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[19:57:22] <skunkworks> archivist_: http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net/threads/60729-Brain-teaser-How-do-you-cut-teeny-gears
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[19:57:35] <joebog> I need step clock , direction , enable , and on full step plus the opto supply
[19:57:42] <joebog> or have I missed something ?
[19:57:50] <joebog> for each board of course
[19:58:37] <andypugh> Though I know why I bought the latest, they were really cheap and looked useful: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/400548207393?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649
[19:59:13] <andypugh> joebog: Yeah, basically exactly the same connections as you have now. Just to different stepper drivers.
[19:59:33] <joebog> OK I have half an idea then :)
[19:59:38] <joebog> Ill keep you posted
[20:00:40] <joebog> in fact its easy !!! all I need do is use the esisting ribbon ba
[20:01:17] <joebog> cables for X,Y and Z axis direct from the breakout board !!!!
[20:01:38] <joebog> I been trying to decode the breakout board
[20:01:44] <joebog> sheesh SLAP
[20:01:53] <joebog> sometimes Im a complete moron :(
[20:01:57] <joebog> its easy !!!
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[20:02:44] <joebog> how to make things difficult for ones self
[20:02:55] <joebog> my new book to be published shortly :D
[20:05:16] <andypugh> So far, I am quite pleased with the £2.99 regulator. Buttons to turn the voltage display on or off, and another to swap between input and output. I can imagine a row of them in a machine cabinet all runnig from the main 24V rail.
[20:05:25] <andypugh> (I bought 4 of them)
[20:06:10] <jdh> I was wondering what the buttons were for. Just a pot adjuster?
[20:06:45] <andypugh> They even have little LEDs to show which voltage is being displayed (input or output). How they can supply them for the price (including postage) when i can't even post something to China for that price is a mystery to me.
[20:06:59] <andypugh> Yes, pot adjuster.
[20:07:00] <joebog> hhmm I have found the data for the breakout board !!!!!
[20:07:20] <joebog> 3 ground pins one clock pin one clockwise pin :(
[20:07:28] <joebog> not enough is it andy ?
[20:07:36] <kengu> china (post) is supporting export and thus offers pretty much freeish shipping
[20:07:47] <jdh> you only need step+dir
[20:08:09] <joebog> OK thanks jdh
[20:08:23] <joebog> step translates to clock I gather ?
[20:08:25] <jdh> you could share a single pin for all enables if you want an enable
[20:08:26] <andypugh> I would translate "clock" as "step" and "clockwise" as "direction"
[20:08:39] <joebog> yep yep
[20:08:48] <joebog> thanks huys :)
[20:08:54] <joebog> er guys
[20:09:00] <jdh> I have some CW/CCW stepper drives
[20:09:21] <jdh> massive open frame polyspede drives
[20:10:13] <andypugh> jdh: I think that's a better system. Quadrature is even better.
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[20:10:51] <jdh> cw/ccw encoders too... they suck.
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[21:06:42] <DJ9DJ> gn8
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[21:16:34] <Einar> andypugh: Did you try loading that regulator with 3A for some time? It looks the same coil as I used on a design, and it did not like high current!
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[21:17:01] <andypugh> I haven't used it for anything yet.
[21:17:21] <andypugh> I imagine it will only ever be used to drive logic-level signals anyway
[21:17:44] <Einar> Anyway, I'm paying more for just the parts at Farnell. !!!
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[21:22:10] <andypugh> Indeed. It is at worst a cheap voltmeter.
[21:23:25] <joebog> for 8 or 10 pence less from the same shop, you can buy them with a bezel !!!
[21:24:06] <joebog> Farnell is only good when you want the parts NOW but you always pay 50 times what the parts are worth !!!
[21:25:27] <andypugh> I tend to use RS. For no other reason but that they gave me an account more readily.
[21:26:08] <andypugh> RS are launching a 3D CAD package. (free)
[21:27:18] <joebog> I use RS as well
[21:27:30] <andypugh> Windows only. I should try it in a VM.
[21:28:03] <joebog> and if they are giving away the package I bet it will only run on RS equipment
[21:28:58] <andypugh> I have been using their PCB software for years. It's fine. I actually wish it was _more_ closely integrated to the catalogue, rather than less.
[21:29:22] <andypugh> http://www.designspark.com/eng/page/mechanical
[21:29:46] <andypugh> And, unless I am much mistaken, they have wheeled out Trevor Bayliss to present it
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[21:42:13] <joebog> unfortunately its all Moronsoft !!!
[21:42:20] <joebog> I dont even have wine installed
[21:42:32] <andypugh> I did say that
[21:42:43] <andypugh> I run VMware for that sort of thing.
[21:43:08] <joebog> same same I dont want anything to do with the bastids !!
[21:43:33] <joebog> its a games platform, I dont play games
[21:43:34] <andypugh> But as I have a (paid for) Alibre license and a (free through work) Autodesk Inventor license I probably don't need another windows-only cad package. A Mac-native one would be nice.
[21:44:17] <joebog> you run a mac ?
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[21:44:33] <andypugh> Whilst you are free to be as irrationally bigoted as you like, I find all the main OSs to be fine, and use them all.
[21:44:39] <joebog> Ive never owned one :)
[21:44:58] <andypugh> Windows at work, Mac at home, Linux on the CNC machines.
[21:45:28] <joebog> I was dual boot untill about 15 years ago
[21:45:32] <andypugh> I even have a computer somewhere around here runnng DOS
[21:45:32] <joebog> then straight linux
[21:45:53] <joebog> BUT I was taught some unix at uni 35 or 40 years ago
[21:46:00] <andypugh> But that DOS is on a ROM so not easy to change.
[21:46:13] <andypugh> Hmmm, is there a Linux for HP200LX?
[21:46:22] <joebog> dos worked well MOST of them anyway
[21:46:31] <joebog> I started with version 2.7 DOS
[21:46:35] <joebog> but that was at work
[21:47:17] <joebog> linux will run on almost ANY hardware
[21:47:25] <joebog> the list is pages and pages long
[21:47:51] <joebog> the newest phones will be linux too
[21:47:55] <andypugh> I found a web page suggesting you can run QNX on the 200LX
[21:48:01] <joebog> first release in a few months
[21:48:17] <andypugh> Well, the iPhone is BSD, which is close-ish
[21:48:27] <joebog> have you tried loading linux onto the HP ?
[21:48:31] <andypugh> Isn't Android basically Linux?
[21:48:41] <joebog> Ill bet it will go straihgt away
[21:48:47] <joebog> yes it is
[21:49:04] <andypugh> I haven't turned it on for about 3 years. It gets found when I need a serial terminal
[21:49:25] <joebog> all google stuff is linux then its cross compiled to run on other platforms
[21:49:33] <joebog> thats why google stuff is free
[21:50:23] <joebog> it makes its money from the damn bloatware and adds that they run continuosly
[21:50:54] <joebog> I have about 250 different versions of linux
[21:51:00] <joebog> ALL obtained from Britian
[21:51:18] <joebog> the poms are probably the biggest users as countries go
[21:51:49] <joebog> a magazine to look for would be " Linux User and Developer"
[21:52:23] <joebog> prolly cost you 6 quid
[21:52:29] <joebog> 5 pound 99 to be exact
[21:53:01] <joebog> every copy has at least 3 new versions of the various versions of which there are hundreds
[21:53:35] <joebog> mine are all 3 months old when I get them as they send em to aus by slow row boat
[21:53:44] <andypugh> I only really care about Ubuntu, as that is what I run LinuxCNC on. I have a friend with hos own distribution.
[21:54:56] <joebog> yeah Ubuntu is probably the most popular and it has the largest variety of software in its repositries
[21:55:10] <joebog> its based on Debian which is also the most secure
[21:56:03] <joebog> I run Mint also based on debain so I can easily load software from almost any distribution
[21:56:57] <joebog> If you compile your own version of CNC on the machine you want to run it on, it will perform best
[21:57:21] <joebog> I have an old clonker that I will compile a version to see if I can reduce jitter
[21:57:47] <joebog> BTW I have got the jitter down to 24k on the engraver machine
[21:58:35] <joebog> thats half of what I had
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[22:09:46] <joebog> "The HP 200LX is an IBM PC/XT with 80186 at 8/16MHz, 640x200 CGA LCD screen, qwerty keyboard, numeric keypad, RS-232 port, PCMCIA Type II v2.0 slot. It has MS-DOS 5.0 in ROM. All this is in tiny form factor: 16x9x2,5 cm and 18oz. Runs off 2xAA batteries. It was in production between 1994-1999."
[22:10:13] <joebog> A description [archived link] of "the PCMCIA and BIOS INT13 services necessary to boot MiniX on the HP200LX Palmtop from a PCMCIA ATA Flash Disk. These services should be equally useful for booting LINUX-86 (ELKS) on the HP200LX."
[22:10:59] <andypugh> <- has enough projects
[22:12:35] <joebog> :D was juzz tryin to be helpful
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[22:13:32] <joebog> there is heaps of stuff available on the HP
[22:13:37] <joebog> interesting !!!
[22:14:42] <joebog> DOS5.0 was a real disaster !! it was very quickly replaced by 5.1 which DID work properly
[22:15:35] <joebog> from memory it was 3 5 1/4 floppies :)
[22:15:55] <joebog> er 3 off 5 1/4" floppies
[22:16:26] <joebog> the floppie drives had really nice nema 17 motors !!!
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[22:20:05] <andypugh> I remember using 3" floppy drives. Not many people do.
[22:22:00] <joebog> I started with 8 inch Shugart drives !!! they cost like 2 weeks wages !!!!
[22:22:26] <joebog> single sided 360 k each
[22:22:44] <joebog> they then went to double sided so 720k !!!
[22:22:51] <andypugh> Oh, I used 8", 5 1/4" and 3 1/2" too. But I really did mean 3" above.
[22:23:06] <joebog> and tape drives !!! 1/2 tape with a tape machine that needed two guys to lift !!!
[22:23:40] <joebog> vacuum cleaner to "autoload" the tape :)
[22:23:58] <joebog> Perkin Elmer 2305 and 1632 machines
[22:24:19] <joebog> CORE memory !!! thousands and thousande of tint ferrite toroids !!!
[22:24:26] <joebog> er 3205
[22:24:49] <andypugh> I was using a PDP/11 at work only 2 years ago.
[22:24:52] <joebog> linear 5 volt 250 amp power supplies !!
[22:25:10] <joebog> yep we discussed this before :D
[22:25:17] <joebog> it must be my alzheimers :D
[22:25:31] <joebog> ha ha ha ha
[22:25:36] <joebog> and nope I dont smoke nuffin :D
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[22:26:18] <joebog> we had PDP11 at CSIRO punch cards and tape reader
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[22:26:58] <joebog> BUT I was one of the first peeps on the internet !!! 2400 baud on acoustic modem that you plugged the phone handset into the modem
[22:26:59] <andypugh> Have I mentioned: http://www.worldofspectrum.org/infoseekid.cgi?id=0002635
[22:27:40] <andypugh> Click the coffee cup icon and you can even play it online, in a web-based emulator.
[22:28:08] <joebog> hhmmm I have played "hack"
[22:28:13] <joebog> numbers and letters
[22:28:27] <joebog> dungeon walls were dashes and pipes
[22:28:52] <joebog> I was 30 years old :)
[22:29:00] <joebog> wow thats LONG ago :D
[22:29:28] <andypugh> Aye, I wrote that game when I was 16. The same length of time ago.
[22:30:18] <andypugh> (By a bizarre twist, the author of the most famous Spectrum game of all is also currently on this channel)
[22:31:09] <Einar> Hmm.. First game I played was Dungeons & Dragons on a Motorola Exorciser w. 8" floppies. THey really were floppy.
[22:31:12] <joebog> <-- bows deeply :)
[22:31:52] <joebog> most of the software I have "played" has been SCADA stuff all running unix
[22:32:03] <joebog> BUT hack was an official release
[22:32:25] <joebog> 1981 it was
[22:32:44] <joebog> I worked for Megadata
[22:32:50] <joebog> thats company name
[22:34:09] <Einar> Did you thry the Advance PC compatible?
[22:34:49] <joebog> A small engineering centre with a customer base covering the entire Asia-Pacific region. Expertise was in the design, development, deployment, and commissioning of Supervisory Control and Data Acquisition systems (SCADA). Megadata SCADA systems are operational in a large number of infrastructure authorities involved in power grid management, water and sewage distribution, and rail switching systems.; Responsible for solving the en
[22:35:03] <andypugh> "mega" how quaint! The latest xkcd "what-if" has an interesting quote "the NSA can store between an exabyte and a yottabyte of data". As Randall points out, that is like saying "Eye witnesses estimated the snake to be between one millimeter and one kilometer long"
[22:35:34] <joebog> andy !!! it WAS 32 bits !! not 16 like everybody else
[22:35:57] <Einar> We sold them here. The boards were mounted upside down with EPROM's on sockets. After some heat/cool cycles they were rattling around in the box!
[22:36:04] <joebog> the 3206 machine was 32/64 address lines
[22:36:25] <joebog> we used motorola 68030 as I/O buffers and decoders
[22:37:06] <joebog> most installations has 32 Motorola 68030's to look after the I/O
[22:37:44] <andypugh> I went to an interesting talk by a security expert who specialises in finding SCADA systems accessible from the internet. He found he could turn on the sprinklers in the Bodlean Library, or turn off the Niagara hydro plant.
[22:38:05] <andypugh> The former would be the more tragic.
[22:38:09] <joebog> the largest macine I built had 7 rack cubicles two 3205's on line with a single hot spare
[22:38:32] <joebog> the other end 1500 miles down the track had a single 3205 and 3 rack cubicles
[22:39:53] <andypugh> I can't spell. The "Bodleian Library" I meant
[22:40:03] <joebog> it used to control all rail traffic between Brisbane and Rockhampton railway line
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[22:40:40] <joebog> BUT remeber queensland has a superbly small line guage of 3 foot 6 inches !!!
[22:41:12] <joebog> a little bit larger than the boy scout hobby projects in britian
[22:41:31] <joebog> new south wales is 4 foiot 8 inches
[22:41:43] <joebog> south australia is 5 foot 11 inches
[22:42:03] <joebog> its called standardisation
[22:42:14] <joebog> as LONG as it matches NOTHING else its a standard
[22:43:28] <andypugh> http://xkcd.com/927/
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[22:44:24] <joebog> Standard gauge—1,435 mm (4 ft 8 1⁄2 in) 17,678 km—mainly New South Wales and the interstate rail network. Narrow gauge (Cape gauge)—1,067 mm (3 ft 6 in) 15,160 km—mainly Queensland, Western Australia and Tasmania as well as some of South Australia. The term "Cape gauge" is rarely used in Australia. Broad gauge (Irish gauge)—1,600 mm (5 ft 3 in) 4,017 km—mainly Victoria, some South Australia, some Victori
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[22:45:35] <andypugh> A friend of mine who is a keen railways chap has lately been working in Aus.
[22:45:59] <joebog> I love the country
[22:46:31] <joebog> and when I installed that SCADA system I drove a troopie from brisbane to rocky alongside the railway line
[22:46:34] <joebog> took 3 months
[22:46:40] <joebog> was a superb experience
[22:47:27] <joebog> I work all over the country now, and have also seen some superb desert in central australia
[22:47:58] <joebog> I have a week in Weipa ( bauxite mine) starting first of next month
[22:48:14] <joebog> pre wet shutdown
[22:48:33] <joebog> will be about 36 degrees C and humidity of 95%
[22:48:55] <joebog> 12 hour days
[22:49:16] <joebog> working !!! its about 15 hours when ya take in travel and mess times
[22:49:17] <andypugh> That sounds like hell to me.
[22:49:30] <joebog> all for $57.50 /hr
[22:49:40] <andypugh> Mate of mine visited http://www.flickr.com/photos/18608006@N00/sets/72157633900699314/with/8935527115/ earlier in the year
[22:49:40] <joebog> about 3 times the national average :)
[22:50:42] <joebog> thats 3500 kilometers from here and will be 4500 kilometres when Im in weipa
[22:50:51] <joebog> its only about 300 lik
[22:51:03] <joebog> kliks from where I was born however
[22:52:14] <joebog> I have never been there though :D
[22:52:28] <andypugh> That's pretty good money, though through an oversight at work I am making nearly that for browsing ebay and lathes.co.uk at the moment.
[22:52:45] <joebog> heh heh heh
[22:52:53] <joebog> and winter is cummin on :)
[22:53:05] <joebog> my eldest dau lived in Reading fer 3 years
[22:53:11] <joebog> she hated the cold
[22:53:36] <andypugh> They decided to delay the production date by 18 months without really working out what extra work the dev engineers would be doing in the interim.
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[22:54:01] <joebog> all to your benefit mate :)
[22:54:14] <joebog> be nice and polite, DONT have them look at your contract
[22:54:20] <joebog> always be pleasant :)
[22:54:37] <andypugh> I like winter. I ski a lot.
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[22:54:58] <joebog> I was born in snowy mountains minus 20 degrees stuff
[22:55:22] <andypugh> I work in Finland 2 weeks a year. -40 degrees stuff.
[22:55:31] <joebog> I have NEVER work hot pink pump up trousers or driven a Porshe at 60 miles an hour with chains on the wheels
[22:55:53] <joebog> wow ???
[22:56:04] <andypugh> I get paid for driving fast on ice :-)
[22:56:28] <joebog> I have never worn hot pink trousers or driven a Porshe at 50 miles an hour with snow chains on
[22:57:14] <joebog> also I dont have $150 per day to get into the national park ( Kosciosko national park)
[22:57:30] <joebog> and MOST of the snow is made by snow machines
[22:57:40] <CaptHindsight> -40C or -40F :)
[22:57:52] <joebog> ha ha ha
[22:58:09] <joebog> maybe below absolute zero ???
[22:58:09] <joebog> :D
[22:58:21] <joebog> -40 K
[22:58:38] <CaptHindsight> now thats what I call cold
[22:58:42] <joebog> er minus 40 over minus 257
[22:59:00] <joebog> <-- cheeky bastid :)
[22:59:32] <joebog> anyway minus 20 was enough to send me 3000 kliks north ")
[22:59:47] <joebog> and I dont swim or fish either
[23:00:11] <andypugh> You know how 5C is a lot warmer than 0C? Interestingly it stays equally noticable all the way down. -20C is "gosh isn't it cold?" -30C is "this hurts now" and -40C is "I want to go home"
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[23:01:04] <joebog> PLUS 20 is long pants a flannellette shirt hiking socks a jumper weather !!!
[23:01:17] <joebog> PLUS 40 is OK I dont even sweat much
[23:01:39] <joebog> plus 45 is noticable warmer
[23:01:46] <joebog> plus 50 is HOT !!!!
[23:01:55] <andypugh> +30 I die. +40 my dessiccated corpse blows away in the wind.
[23:02:13] <andypugh> My winter workplace: http://www.arctictesting.fi
[23:02:15] <joebog> iyts 09:00 now and its 33C
[23:02:49] <joebog> Im in shorts and thongs BUT Im still wearing a jumper
[23:03:02] <andypugh> When it was -40 we were using the fridges to keep the cars hot enough to start.
[23:03:08] <joebog> AND a flannellette shirt :)
[23:03:28] <andypugh> This is the type of thong you wear on your feet, right?
[23:03:42] <Jymmm> Found hose attatched bug spray yesterday, sprayed ALL around the house.... Muhahahahaha,
[23:03:49] <joebog> heh heh heh at my age thats disgusting :D
[23:03:51] <joebog> ha ha ha ha
[23:04:06] <joebog> BUT I still only weigh in at 65 kilos !!
[23:04:12] <joebog> and no beer gut
[23:04:33] <joebog> 18" of long white beard tho
[23:04:40] <andypugh> Anyway, this is _not_ fixing the SSI driver
[23:04:48] <joebog> sorry
[23:04:55] <joebog> and its 09:00 Im out
[23:05:02] <joebog> thanks for the chat guys
[23:05:03] <andypugh> No worries, mate.
[23:05:05] <joebog> most pleasant :)
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[23:05:57] <andypugh> Welll, there goes that excuse. nose->grindstone
[23:08:16] <CaptHindsight> whats aluminum chip scrap selling for currently?
[23:13:18] <andypugh> $1000? http://goo.gl/maps/aL2C1
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[23:14:10] <andypugh> I can check as I go past tomorrow :-)
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[23:21:27] <Chemeleon> heh, the yellow text over the doorway to the left of that sign
[23:21:38] <Chemeleon> I first read as "shoplifting - design - equipment"
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[23:34:08] <andypugh> Shoplifting is a professionin Essex.
[23:39:35] <CaptHindsight> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5I8ja9I8qeg SLA printer that uses the audio card to drive the galvos
[23:40:33] <andypugh> The Google car wasn't brave enough: https://maps.google.co.uk/?ll=51.581523,0.394049&spn=0.00712,0.012327&t=h&layer=c&cbll=51.58131,0.394189&panoid=4rbgvIFHrCI0Do9AxYE3TQ&cbp=12,119.7,,0,-7.61&z=17
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