#linuxcnc | Logs for 2013-09-17

[00:07:54] <PCW> so it does not show up on FPGA cards the get configured at startup (the encoder always starts at 0 on those)
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[00:22:17] <PCW> Sorry it affects all Axis. probab;y just means the encoders should be cleared during Linuxcnc startup
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[00:52:15] <jp_mill> http://pastebin.com/S1PHBcKu
[00:52:29] <jp_mill> what am i missing?
[00:52:40] <jp_mill> 5i25 with a 7i77
[00:58:59] <cmorley> says you asked for 6 encoder but only 2 are available. does that ring a bell?
[00:59:29] <cmorley> line 346
[01:01:16] <jp_mill> it does as far as why only 2 are avail?
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[01:15:50] <cmorley> well without knowing anything I would guess that either the 5i25's firmware only gives you 2 or you asked for only two. You don't give enough info you me to tell. Need to see the HAL file to see what it asked for. Did this ever work or is this your first time?
[01:21:17] <andypugh> jp_mill: You have a 7i76 firmware on the 5u25 card
[01:21:25] <jp_mill> think it might be a bit/pin file issue
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[01:21:41] <jp_mill> brand new live cd install
[01:22:36] <andypugh> Yes, but the 5i25 has a firmware flashed on to it. For some reason the one you have is flashed with the 7i76 version (the clue it that th dmesg mentions a lot of stepgens).
[01:22:54] <jp_mill> ah
[01:23:09] <jp_mill> how do you flash it?
[01:23:10] <andypugh> You need to flash it with the 7i77 firmware to make it work with the 7i77
[01:23:36] <andypugh> Download the files here: http://www.mesanet.com/software/parallel/5i25.zip
[01:23:40] <jp_mill> i down loaded the 5i25.zip from mesa
[01:23:47] <andypugh> That was fast :-)
[01:24:01] <jp_mill> had it already
[01:24:04] <andypugh> Did you unzip it already?
[01:24:09] <jp_mill> yes
[01:24:21] <andypugh> cd 5i25/utils/linux
[01:24:50] <andypugh> does ls -al show mesaflash as executable?
[01:25:00] <jp_mill> yup
[01:25:20] <jp_mill> wait maybe not
[01:25:41] <andypugh> sudo ./mesaflash --device 5I25 --write ../../7i77x2.bit
[01:27:36] <jp_mill> ahh command not found
[01:27:47] <andypugh> chmod 777 mesaflash
[01:29:08] <jp_mill> now i get cant find file ../../7i77x2.bit
[01:29:43] <andypugh> Maybe too many ../ parts
[01:29:56] <andypugh> tab-completion is your friend
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[01:30:12] <jdh> or locate(1)
[01:30:28] <andypugh> Actually, what board are you most likely to use on the second header?
[01:31:08] <jp_mill> nothing for now
[01:31:28] <jp_mill> everything else i have is a 50 pin headder
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[01:32:19] <andypugh> If you look in the configs / hm2 folder there are quite a range of options with a 7i77 on the first connector
[01:34:05] <andypugh> OK, the actual command you want it probably sudo ./mesaflash --device 5I25 --write ../../configs/hostmot2/7i77x2.bit
[01:34:54] <jp_mill> i was wonder that flashing now
[01:35:44] <andypugh> After flashing you can verufy sudo ./mesaflash --device 5I25 --verify ../../configs/hostmot2/7i77x2.bit
[01:36:17] <jp_mill> so that seemed to take ok
[01:36:24] <andypugh> Then you need to shut down that PC and actually power cycle it to get the new firmware to be active. A reboot isn't enough.
[01:36:42] <jp_mill> see you in a sec then
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[01:36:57] <andypugh> Mwahahaha!
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[01:40:24] <jp_mill> andypugh: thanks that did the trick
[01:40:35] <andypugh> Great
[01:41:27] <jp_mill> now i just get typical i/o errors from pins in hal that are just have the wrong labels
[01:43:27] <andypugh> Well, that's progress of a sort
[01:43:39] <jp_mill> duh my mistake. I don't have field power hooked up so the 7i77 i/o wont show up until i do
[01:45:14] <jp_mill> there we go commented out any reference to i/o and were good!!
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[01:58:14] <andypugh> Blimey! Look at the time!
[01:58:22] <andypugh> Night all!
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[06:37:52] <DJ9DJ> moin
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[14:22:22] <false> pcw_home: You in?
[14:25:37] <pcw_home> Yeah
[14:33:28] <false> Didn't have time to come back yesterday, sorry about that. You said the config wouldn't fit, would dropping a couple of encoders help?
[14:34:23] <pcw_home> I do know 9 encoders,5 stepgens and 3 sserial channel wont fit
[14:35:19] <false> How about 5 encoders, 4 stepgens, 1pwmgen, and fill the rest with sserial?
[14:35:38] <pcw_home> probably wont fit
[14:36:33] <false> 4 encoders 4 stepgens, 1pwmgen +ss, probably won't fit either then?
[14:36:48] <Valen> how about a partridge in a pear tree?
[14:37:04] <false> Valen: ?
[14:37:08] <ReadError> lol
[14:37:11] <JT-Shop> lol
[14:37:33] <Valen> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Twelve_Days_of_Christmas_(song)
[14:37:45] <false> Just got that
[14:37:50] <Valen> ;->
[14:37:55] <pcw_home> I think maybe 8 encoders, 4 stepgens and 3 sserials would fit
[14:38:10] <false> so the pwmgen is the real problem?
[14:38:41] <cradek_> sounds like the real problem is the card isn't big enough :-/
[14:38:43] <pcw_home> No a PWM gen is small, mainly it stepgens and sserial channels
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[14:39:23] <false> cradek: true, but that's what I am working with right now :P
[14:39:29] <pcw_home> I also have a bug the prevents me from making configs with just 2 or 1 sserial channels
[14:40:41] <cradek> and pcw does extra work so you don't have to buy a bigger card - he loses in two ways but doesn't complain!
[14:40:49] <pcw_home> 2 doesnt work because my RAM inference doesnt handle degenerate cases with just a
[14:40:50] <pcw_home> single bit address instead of a bit vector
[14:41:06] <pcw_home> same for 1 (no address)
[14:41:49] <pcw_home> It fixable, just needs some rototilling
[14:42:01] <false> I plan on buying more of his products when this project is done. They will also be more common configs
[14:42:30] <pcw_home> Ill poke around today
[14:42:31] <pcw_home> If the MPGs can use GPIO that might be better
[14:43:14] <pcw_home> (software encoder)
[14:43:15] <false> I will connect the mpgs via your pendant interfaces later on.
[14:43:16] <pcw_home> or if I can make a 2 sserial channel config compile I'm pretty sure it would fit
[14:43:50] <false> Well I don't want to make my problem you problem any more then I am doing right now
[14:43:54] <pcw_home> I'll play some more
[14:43:55] <pcw_home> is 4 stepgens and 8 encoder enough?
[14:44:20] <pcw_home> (4 encoders on 7I33 4 on 7I47)
[14:44:40] <pcw_home> 4 stepgens on 7I47
[14:46:15] <false> Sound good, but my spindle needs a pwmgen (+-10V)
[14:46:34] <pcw_home> Im assuming 4 PWMGens for the 7I33
[14:47:05] <false> Ah ok, well I only need one, but I don't know if that will free up any space on the fpga?
[14:47:10] <false> usable space that is
[14:48:16] <pcw_home> I think I was at about 119% of the LUTs with 9 encoders 4 PWMGens 5 stepgens 3 sserial channels
[14:48:48] <cradek> false: does it by chance do modbus?
[14:48:56] <false> the spindle?
[14:49:01] <cradek> yeah
[14:50:55] <false> Nope using the old drive only +-10V, binary from the NC to an intermediate board where it is converted to a +-10V and then send to the drive. It's old fanuc so finding info is a nightmare :P
[14:51:15] <cradek> aha
[14:51:39] <false> Maybe I'll give the binary a crack when I have the time, shouldn't be to hard
[14:54:42] <kengu> i can (internet tells me) make linuxcnc play sound or what ever with some special M-code in gcode but how could I integrate that to linuxcnc in a way that I don't have to put the code in every work
[14:56:04] <kengu> is there that kind of possibility and awareness in linuxcnc or is it more .. umm.. well. It does know that after finishing it can run again so there is some
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[15:08:30] <ReadError> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/25091878/Photo%20Sep%2017%2C%2011%2006%2038%20AM.jpg
[15:08:40] <ReadError> stage 1 of the cyclone filter is kickin butt!
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[15:12:08] <uw> sherline people whats the max travel rate you can get on your mill/lathe?
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[15:14:46] <kengu> ReadError: nice
[15:15:03] <ReadError> would have had to clean my filter probably 8 times by now
[15:15:06] <ReadError> if not more
[15:15:15] <ReadError> should have got one forever ago
[15:15:28] <kengu> i need to build some more
[15:16:57] <ReadError> cyclone filters?
[15:17:14] <ReadError> i got these off amazon, probably overpriced but works pretty good
[15:17:25] <false> pcw_home: sorry needed to step away
[15:18:26] <kengu> ReadError: cyclones yes.. and lots of other things
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[15:25:54] <false> pcw_home: 4 stepgens and 8 encoders would be fine after rethinking some strategy. As long as I have at least: 4 stepgens, 6 encoders, 1 pwmgen and 2 sserial.
[15:27:06] <false> pcw_home: sorry you told me 3 sserial minimum
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[15:29:47] <false> Dropping another encoder (5 encoders total) would be possible for now, but we are planning to connect a 4th axis in the near future. If that won't fit I'll go and buy a bigger AIO card.
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[15:34:11] <pcw_home> OK I will try for 8 encoders,4 stepgens,3 sserials
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[15:39:52] <false> Thanks!
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[16:19:00] * JT-Shop is glad millipedes don't weigh 100 lbs
[16:21:37] <pcw_home> There are some pretty big ones
[16:23:16] <pcw_home> and there were some 8 footers
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[16:32:34] <JT-Shop> I'm glad they don't live around here, the small ones make up for size with numbers
[16:35:24] <ReadError> im glad flying spiders dont exist
[16:35:42] <pcw_home> thats just creepy...
[16:38:35] <archivist> jumping spiders do exist I think, therefore they fly :)
[16:38:56] <jthornton> spyders fly with a silk wing from tree to tree
[16:39:57] <pcw_home> Yeah some baby spiders fly to disperse in the wind
[16:42:23] <ReadError> i mean, spiders with wings
[16:43:17] <Chemeleon> then spin a long thread that catches the wind and drift on that
[16:43:33] <Chemeleon> then = they
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[16:46:38] <andypugh> I believe the term is "ballooning"
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[16:48:21] <andypugh> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ballooning_(spider)
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[16:50:05] <IchGuckLive> hi all B)
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[16:53:50] <IchGuckLive> einar_: still on the system
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[17:00:17] <IchGuckLive> uw i gota max of 1200mm/min on mine and it works perfect no miss step for years
[17:01:14] <IchGuckLive> seen! Jesus_Alos
[17:04:37] <IchGuckLive> !seen JesusAlos
[17:04:37] <the_wench> last seen in 2013-09-15 23:01:20GMT 43:03:17 ago, saying Quit: ChatZilla [Firefox 20.0/20130329043827]
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[17:13:07] <IchGuckLive> realy bad weather moving in here
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[17:26:00] <ReadError> it feels awesome here
[17:26:08] <ReadError> im in the shop, all the doors open
[17:26:13] <IchGuckLive> alone in the dark
[17:26:40] <IchGuckLive> ReadError: not alowed in germany
[17:26:51] <ReadError> lol whys that
[17:27:19] <IchGuckLive> insurence you need to be 2 for firering a mill
[17:27:48] <IchGuckLive> sorry safty doors and capine is one alowed
[17:28:01] <ReadError> well this is my own basement ;)
[17:28:34] <IchGuckLive> shop is shop
[17:28:48] <IchGuckLive> if costemers can join
[17:29:09] <ReadError> i send all my stuff over mail
[17:29:34] <IchGuckLive> B)
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[17:33:53] <ReadError> seems excessive
[17:33:58] <ReadError> 2 people to run a machine?
[17:34:08] <ReadError> can you use a sewing machine by yourself? where is the line drawn
[17:35:18] <false> ReadError: a mill can kill you if your stupid/unlucky.
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[17:35:38] <IchGuckLive> false: a drill press also
[17:35:45] <false> Yes true
[17:36:25] <ReadError> many things use improperly can kill you though
[17:36:31] <false> true
[17:37:01] <jthornton> a brown recluse can kill you too
[17:37:10] <false> But they have to draw the line somewhere, maybe a drillpress is more dangerous because it can operate with the "doors open". As opposed to a cnc that should only run when de doors are closed
[17:37:43] <false> not counting the ones that bypass the safety switches (read all of them :P)
[17:37:51] <jthornton> yep
[17:38:51] <false> But in The Netherlands the rules are about the same, you can't be alone. But that goes for being on the shopfloor in general.
[17:38:57] <ReadError> is this by law or by insurance company ?
[17:39:42] <einar_> Good evening. I heard here you cannot climb a ladder >2,5m without supervision.
[17:40:02] <false> I don't really know, but I've worked at several metal working shops and other production companies they all have the same policy
[17:40:18] <false> einar_:UK?
[17:40:26] <IchGuckLive> einar_: does the simulation run
[17:40:37] <IchGuckLive> einar_: is from norway
[17:41:12] <false> Well, just ask andypugh, health and safety in the UK is impossible
[17:41:35] <false> I've worked there building breakwaters, they drive you insane
[17:42:03] <einar_> Sim runs. Stepper runs (dry run). univstep crashes.
[17:43:09] <IchGuckLive> i have seen the logs but you provided dmesg instd of only the window fail Right of your F12 is the picture my desktop button
[17:44:25] <einar_> Uhh? You want to see the stderr output?
[17:44:48] <IchGuckLive> if linuxcnc not starts there is a error window
[17:45:48] <einar_> There was. I think not when started from terminal window. Haven't seen it for a while.
[17:46:09] <IchGuckLive> so its ok now
[17:46:19] <IchGuckLive> only your config may be false
[17:46:54] <einar_> It's crashing. And yes, what it says is config bad.
[17:48:03] <IchGuckLive> upload your hal and in i to pastebin
[17:48:12] <IchGuckLive> if you need help !
[17:48:18] <IchGuckLive> if not try yourself
[17:49:00] <einar_> Pastebin says: Woah, you have reached your paste limit of 10 pastes per 24 hours. Either wait a litte or sign up for a free account to get higher limits.
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[17:49:51] <IchGuckLive> there are more paste sites
[17:50:29] <IchGuckLive> or did you already upload the ini and hal
[17:50:31] <kengu> paste.pm
[17:52:36] <andypugh> I know folk who run commercial machine shops by themselves. I don't think there is a problem with that here.
[17:53:03] <archivist> self employed are allowed
[17:53:32] <andypugh> Ah, yes, including Archivist, I guess.
[17:54:07] <andypugh> I probably wouldn't be allowed to, I am not qualified to operate machine tools.
[17:54:15] <archivist> becomes sticky if a worker is left alone in a two man company, best if both are self employed
[17:54:29] <IchGuckLive> health insurance :-(
[17:54:39] <andypugh> (And, AFAIK the only recognised qualification is an apprenticeship)
[17:54:49] <archivist> nah elf an safety
[17:55:24] <andypugh> Well, Health Insurance has almost nothing to do with anything in the UK. (Fortunately). It's entirely optional (and fairly unusual)
[17:55:47] <IchGuckLive> Uk is the best to get ill
[17:55:55] <andypugh> The NHS treat you no matter how you did it to yourself.
[17:55:57] <archivist> there are some routes to be an approved/competent person
[17:56:09] <IchGuckLive> but most UK pencioners come here for there hips replacement
[17:56:56] <andypugh> archivist: There are? There weren't last time I looked, admittedly 15 years ago when I wanted to use the University workshops.
[17:57:02] <IchGuckLive> andypugh: ive seen Kay Burly at sunday in the front liine of a holpital
[17:57:45] <archivist> andypugh, I think it depends on trade, we clockmakers were not required to have an apprenticeship
[17:58:28] <archivist> or more important who sets the local policy
[17:59:30] <IchGuckLive> archivist dont agree this needts to be goverment
[17:59:40] <IchGuckLive> local is a bad on this
[17:59:52] <IchGuckLive> mayer is always a best friend
[18:00:05] <archivist> local in this case can be company/institution/whatever
[18:00:26] <IchGuckLive> Union
[18:00:40] <archivist> fsck the union
[18:00:49] <IchGuckLive> Chamber of Crafts
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[18:01:00] <einar_> Tried a couple of pase sites. Can't figure them out.
[18:01:17] <IchGuckLive> einar_: NP
[18:01:25] <IchGuckLive> do you got a homepage
[18:01:32] <IchGuckLive> load it up
[18:02:00] <pcw_home> I think my brother had to join the furniture makers guild to make musical instruments in Vienna
[18:02:21] <IchGuckLive> pcw_home: thats comen in europ
[18:02:44] <IchGuckLive> i had to be in some and change after workchange
[18:02:45] <einar_> I'll try. Have to find what's needed first.
[18:03:13] <IchGuckLive> einar_: you can zip the hole folder
[18:03:35] <IchGuckLive> einar_: Right mouse klick and kompress
[18:03:51] <IchGuckLive> it asks then on Zip or rar
[18:04:33] <IchGuckLive> einar_: only the mashine folder not the config
[18:04:42] <andypugh> pcw_home: I am not seeing how we would use the DPLL. Can it be configured to write to the trigger register? It seems to "own" HAL pins.
[18:05:55] <pcw_home> I noticed that you had the DPLL instead of HM2DPLL pins in the hostmot2.h file
[18:06:29] <andypugh> You think it should be HM2_HM2DPLL?
[18:06:50] <andypugh> (Actually, HM2_GTAG_HM2DPLL ?)
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[18:07:00] <pcw_home> I think I sent the latest regmap (and i deleted the DPLL comp that was made for a specific job)
[18:07:21] <andypugh> I have a GTAG 26 (1A)
[18:07:39] <pcw_home> Yes. it has 6 pins or so, refout, timer0..3 and syncin
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[18:08:00] <pcw_home> pins are mainly for debugging
[18:09:08] <andypugh> I am not seeing how we would use it to trigger an SSI read.
[18:10:26] <andypugh> So far running a trigger function before HM2_READ then reading the SSI channels last appears to work fine. It would work less well at low data rates, of course.
[18:11:09] <pcw_home> first the DPLL gets setup (base frequency/prescale set to match servo thread) magic constants elsewhere
[18:12:10] <pcw_home> then first operation in servo thread is read sync location (0x7600)
[18:13:15] <pcw_home> this read syncs DPLL to servo thread (after 1000 or so reads)
[18:13:16] <pcw_home> it also reads the current jitter
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[18:14:19] <IchGuckLive> so im off for oday se you tomorrow 19.00 Berlin time
[18:14:25] <pcw_home> once this is running you have a low jitter local timer running at the servo thread rate
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[18:15:10] <andypugh> I got it so far.
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[18:15:31] <pcw_home> the refout pin is in sync with the access, the timer 0,3 pins can be offset 0 to 65535/65536s periods
[18:16:48] <pcw_home> the ssi/fanuc components can start on timer instead of program
[18:16:49] <pcw_home> (this will be added to BISS and SPI as well)
[18:16:51] <andypugh> And what do the pins connect to?
[18:17:07] <einar_> I give up. My webhotel provider changed server and now I can't ftp to it!
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[18:17:39] <pcw_home> they are selected internally by the timerselect field in the ssi,fanuc setup register
[18:18:00] <andypugh> Ah, OK, I must have overlooked that.
[18:18:20] <pcw_home> (and eventually others including encoder, stepgenin stepgenout etc)
[18:19:44] <andypugh> Ah, yes, now I see timer channel select etc in SSI.
[18:19:50] <pcw_home> Its a portable way of generating lower jitter timing and pre-triggers
[18:20:46] <andypugh> So, I need to check the firmware for a DPLL, and configure it if it exists, and export the trigger function if it doesn't?
[18:21:21] <pcw_home> the DPLL is fairly magic and needs to have its prescale set so that the frequency setup constant
[18:21:23] <pcw_home> is close to the same with different servo thread rates and base clocks
[18:22:04] <andypugh> That is sounding like Stage 3. (Stage 1 was pushed last night)
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[18:25:32] <pcw_home> If you could do nothing more than drive the pins if they exist, read the sync register (and make its value=phase error)
[18:25:34] <pcw_home> available on a hal pin and make the 3 setup registers writeable, It wouls allow me to get some better setup values for
[18:25:35] <pcw_home> typical RTAI jitter statistics
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[18:26:51] <pcw_home> there are tradeoffs in the low pass filter timing, lock-in range and lock-in time and jitter rejection
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[18:31:10] <pcw_home> with my test jig (running on windows!) I got about a 100-1 jitter reduction
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[18:39:47] <MrHindsight> ran the Matsuura spindle for a couple days at top speed, now I see another reason why he sold it, needs spindle bearings
[18:40:07] <false> Yeah, you already suspected that right?
[18:40:28] <false> because of the grinding noises comming from it?
[18:40:49] <MrHindsight> yeah, ran hot and it's has about 25um of play
[18:43:10] <false> !
[18:44:10] <andypugh> Adjustable at all?
[18:44:17] <MrHindsight> when hot, takes about an hour
[18:45:17] <andypugh> There are quite a lot of jobs where 25um play is no real problem.
[18:45:21] <MrHindsight> not from the outside and if I'm tearing apart the head anyway I'm changing bearings
[18:45:54] <MrHindsight> yeah, but it's just going to get worse
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[18:46:14] <MrHindsight> still not a bad deal
[18:46:41] <andypugh> How much are new bearings?
[18:47:04] <MrHindsight> <$200
[18:47:30] <andypugh> Some are quite expensive: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Gamet-Super-Precision-Bearing-140082X-140140HE0-/281164984858
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[18:49:06] <MrHindsight> probably that price or more from Matsuura
[18:50:57] <MrHindsight> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Matsuura-710-/281166532720
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[18:53:01] <MrHindsight> I'll probably just refresh this one and look for a larger one later
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[18:54:27] <MrHindsight> spack, ^^ not bad if they can load it
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[19:02:46] <joebog> morning all! Andy, your timing changes worked and x and y axis appear to be moving correctly
[19:03:48] <joebog> z axix seems to have problems, it moves up and down, but goes more down each time ?? so that it eventually ends up jammed at the bottom of travel
[19:05:00] <joebog> also the x and y axis seem to "sing" every so often, by sing I mean the travel stops and the motor sings quite loudly at about 800 Hz
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[19:07:12] <joebog> all my tests are using the "LinuxCNC" logo
[19:08:33] <andypugh> joebog: This sounds like insifficient "oomph" in the Z drive
[19:09:02] <joebog> OK
[19:09:15] <andypugh> What changes did you make to the timing?
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[19:09:54] <joebog> I have noticed that I can turn the motor under power, and as its the same size as the other motors, which I cant turn I suspect maybe a crook motor ?
[19:10:02] <joebog> exactly as you suggested
[19:10:18] <andypugh> That's possible. Or it could be a duff drive.
[19:10:36] <andypugh> You are assuming that I can remember what I suggested :-)
[19:10:42] <einar_> Does it work now? http://pastebin.com/i03FdKrD
[19:10:45] <joebog> 10,000step 10000 space 10mm velocity and 50mm/sec
[19:11:35] <joebog> I initially had 5000 for both and 5mm/sec and 20 mm/sec accels
[19:12:07] <einar_> joebog: If mstepper "sings" you step too fast, or pass through it's resonance band.
[19:12:25] <andypugh> OK, I would try seeing how fast you can make the X and Y, but try making the Z even slower.
[19:12:35] <joebog> its not resonance I know that
[19:12:50] <joebog> and it doesnt sing whilst travelling
[19:13:02] <andypugh> But if you can turn the motor under power I suspect there is a phase down.
[19:13:25] <MrHindsight> http://preview.tinyurl.com/kuvvues found some of these centerless grinders with bad controllers
[19:13:26] <joebog> it stops ( I havent been able to determine a pattern) and then "sings"
[19:13:50] <andypugh> Tb6560 drives like to die easily, especially if you ever disconnect them under power. This means that a loose contact can kill the drive too.
[19:13:51] <einar_> On my mill I solved it by putting the chuck from a small lathe on it's shaft. It moved the resonance frequency. :-)
[19:14:09] <pcw_home> Or maybe the drive current is set too low
[19:14:26] <einar_> But now I have a small lathe without chuck...
[19:14:44] <joebog> drive current may be too low and the whole setup is driving a complete engraving machine
[19:14:47] <MrHindsight> small chucks should be easy to find
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[19:15:22] <einar_> If a phase is burnt out it would not move at all.
[19:15:34] <andypugh> Seems a waste of a chuck when a lump of steel would do.
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[19:15:40] <joebog> true einer
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[19:15:43] <MrHindsight> I have found that the tb65xx drives sing when the current is too low
[19:16:37] <joebog> OK MrH I can change the boards, I still have the three drive boards that came with the windowz driver
[19:17:13] <einar_> If your drive voltage is too low it will not be able to supply current to run it fast. It then stalls at high speed and "sing" by the step frequency.
[19:17:53] <andypugh> joebog: Which drives are you using? I would be looking hard at the Cipher boards if I was you.
[19:18:09] <joebog> so what drives boards are suggested ??
[19:18:22] <pcw_home> yeah, sagging supply voltage could cause this also
[19:18:51] <andypugh> Is this the original Cipher PSU?
[19:18:56] <joebog> I dont know what the motors are, like everthing associated with windows the labels have been removed to keep you locked in to Cipher
[19:19:41] <joebog> the power supply gives 25 volts and the transformer is capapble of 80 amps coupled to 16000 uF
[19:21:06] <joebog> nah the cipher PSU is piddle and is mounted in such a way Ill have to cut it out
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[19:21:21] <joebog> I was trying not to stuff up the cipher unit
[19:21:32] <einar_> 25V will not give you much speed.
[19:22:14] <einar_> The motor generate a back EMF as the speed goes up. As it approaches your PSU voltage the driver cannot push amps to the motor.
[19:22:26] <joebog> Cipher unit was 40 volts I know, but the 25 volts was to test the thing as it was damaged when the customer received it
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[19:24:46] <einar_> Look for what chips are on your driver, and voltage rating of the electrolytic capacitors.
[19:24:58] <einar_> The the max voltage can be determined.
[19:25:19] <joebog> Im close to max volts einer
[19:25:45] <joebog> I bought a little kit of 5 driver boards and a breakout for $129
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[19:27:02] <joebog> I have very brief specs but its something
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[19:38:18] <Tom_itx> i forget who it was now but did dude get his robotic arm working?
[19:38:21] <Tom_itx> scara
[19:38:22] <Tom_itx> iirc
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[19:40:16] <Chemeleon> my logs say it was nspiel with the robo arm
[19:40:32] <Tom_itx> yeah that was him
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[19:41:11] <Chemeleon> didnt see anything about it being done though
[19:41:27] <Tom_itx> it was moving
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[19:41:31] <Tom_itx> but badly tuned
[19:41:45] <andypugh> There is a pretty cool home-made arm on the French bit of the forums.
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[19:42:53] <Tom_itx> i think harmonic drives would be ideal for that
[19:47:00] <andypugh> I think that is the main use for them.
[19:47:52] <Tom_itx> some reprapper printed one
[19:47:58] <Tom_itx> i don't think it performed that well
[19:48:06] <kwallace1> BTW, I got a pair of IM483 drives which are the same as in the Cipher. One drive was bad. It would step forward and back when trying to rotate. It turned out one of the freewheel diodes was shorted. They are ES2D diodes, which appear to be rated for 2 amps, but the drive is rated for 3 amps RMS and 4 peak.
[19:48:11] <andypugh> I wonder if this really is one? http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/FANUC-HARMONIC-DRIVE-25-120-470772-/181179565153?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2a2f24c461
[19:48:57] <Tom_itx> probably
[19:49:24] <kwallace1> I have some steppers on order: http://www.ebay.com/itm/181057665888
[19:50:07] <Tom_itx> single stack
[19:50:30] <Tom_itx> i took some similar to that off my sherline
[19:50:50] <Tom_itx> went with 282 in oz double stack
[19:51:31] <Tom_itx> the old drivers don't work so well under lcnc, they're too ancient
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[19:54:11] <joebog> Ill have to put it to the customer to strip down the Cipher box I guess
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[20:02:44] <andypugh> Well, probably worth seeing if you can demonstrate the machine working as it is now, to show that the jobe is do-able.
[20:03:39] <andypugh> You could even set up a counterweight/pulley to balance the Z to demonstrate that it is a driver power problem,
[20:04:09] <andypugh> Also worth swapping (say) the Y driver to the Z motor to see if it is the motor or the drive.
[20:05:02] <joebog> not the drive , I have two spares and tried that
[20:05:14] <joebog> I suspect motor
[20:05:44] <andypugh> A continuity test is easy.
[20:05:52] <joebog> yup
[20:05:54] <andypugh> How many motor wires?
[20:06:04] <joebog> all 4 wire
[20:06:16] <joebog> I "think" they are 23 size motors
[20:06:20] <andypugh> That excludes an external problem then...
[20:06:39] <andypugh> With 8-wire it could have been miss-wiring.
[20:07:06] <joebog> I havent measured the size of the motor, but about 100mm sq and stack about 25mm
[20:07:26] <andypugh> (I have done that, the docs had some of the phase-ends switched compared to reality)
[20:08:02] <andypugh> That's a lot bigger than 23
[20:08:44] <joebog> is there any way to limit the travel of the z axis ? I have set it to +/- 30 mm ( its in fact 55mm ) and it still drives down to jam
[20:09:02] <joebog> and I have set feed screww function correctly
[20:09:55] <andypugh> 23 is 2.3 inches. 34 is 3.4 inches. 42 is, you guessed it, 4.2 inches.
[20:10:02] <MrHindsight> whats the highest power #23 AC servo motor anyone has found?
[20:10:09] <MrHindsight> at any price
[20:10:32] <joebog> OK !!! I didnt know that thanks for that gem
[20:10:59] <joebog> I have downloaded a set of "instructions" and its all in mm not inches
[20:12:22] <andypugh> joebog: It sounds like the motor is losing steps. Unfortunately LinuxCNC has no way to know this. The only solution is limit switches.
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[20:13:06] <joebog> OK I will wire them in
[20:13:28] <joebog> I suspect this was happening B4 and the motor may have been overheated
[20:14:10] <joebog> all the limit switches had been cut out from the controller ( cipher box) inside the machine
[20:14:23] <joebog> it actually took me two days to sort the wiring
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[20:14:54] <andypugh> MrHindsight: I have a surprisingly small servo for the power in the garage, but I have forgotten the name/type
[20:15:14] <andypugh> I think that the Omron ones tend to be a bit special.
[20:16:05] <kwallace1> Heat can kill older motor magnets. Newer motors are harder to kill, but too much heat can kill the winding insulation.
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[20:18:53] <andypugh> MrHindsight: 400w 60mm http://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/servo-motors/7701441/
[20:19:01] <MrHindsight> andypugh, recall the rated torque in Nm?
[20:19:17] <andypugh> 3.82Nm in the case of that one.
[20:19:58] <MrHindsight> yeah, that looks nice
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[20:20:19] <MrHindsight> using it with a 100:1 worm gear
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[20:20:56] <andypugh> Omron with approx the same spec: http://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/servo-motors/0146210/
[20:22:13] <joebog> I found a factory in China that has the right price and many many motors and matching drivers and power supplies
[20:22:23] <joebog> weimotor.com I think it is
[20:22:25] <einar_> Beware of whether your drive can handle the motor. They can be resolver, encoder or proprietary.
[20:22:39] <false> pcw_home: Do you have any idea when you will be able to create the firmware, I want to be on IRC in case there are space problems again, but I have to go home for an hour or so, after that I will be here most of the night I think.
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[20:24:27] <false> JT-Shop: thanks for the turret cl example, helped me figure out a good way to connect my ATC
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[20:29:52] <Tom_itx> also continuity test wires to case
[20:30:12] <joebog> I can get 5 amp driver boards in cases for $19.95
[20:30:31] <einar_> Just did this: http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?Installing_LinuxCNC#Installing_to_Ubuntu_10_04_or_8_04_from_source
[20:30:39] <joebog> http://www.ebay.com/itm/TB6600-CNC-Single-Axis-0-2-5A-Two-Phase-Hybrid-Stepper-Motor-Driver-Controlle-/161108836749?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2582d5c18d
[20:32:29] <einar_> Wow !!!!!!!!!!!!!! It looks like it works now !!!!!!!!!
[20:34:51] <joebog> http://stores.ebay.com/KIMKE-WEI/Machinery-Parts-Motors-/_i.html?_fsub=1123147010&_sid=948138090&_trksid=p4634.c0.m322
[20:34:55] <CaptHindsight> einar_: free shipping as well
[20:35:00] <joebog> finally found it again !!!
[20:35:25] <einar_> Now I just have to figure out how to make the configuration for lathe instead of mill. But when I managed to do the compile, I have high hopes.
[20:35:32] <joebog> anybody wanna comment on that stuff ?? re price and such, the seller has 99.99% feedback
[20:36:55] <CaptHindsight> surprised they are in Shanghai
[20:37:16] <joebog> gggrrr thats only DC motors !!! not the stepper motors
[20:37:50] <joebog> BUT I have figured that WEIMOTOR is the manufactutre and alla these guys are the "entrepreneurs
[20:38:57] <CaptHindsight> have a link to weimotor?
[20:40:02] <CaptHindsight> the price of parts like that to locals is 1/2 - 1/3 what you see online
[20:40:33] <joebog> http://stores.ebay.com/CHANGZHOU-LONGS-MOTOR-CO-LTD-DATURA?_trksid=p2047675.l2563
[20:40:44] <joebog> Im still looking Capt
[20:40:57] <joebog> but thats another listing
[20:41:08] <einar_> Now that it looks like I have USC running, is there a way I can clone this machine for my mill?
[20:41:20] <einar_> I have a new USC on order for my lathe.
[20:42:21] <einar_> I have an identical hard disk, but not identical machine.
[20:42:36] <CaptHindsight> http://www.leadshine.com/ makes many of the stepper drivers you see on ebay, alibaba, keiling etc
[20:43:22] <joebog> http://stores.ebay.com/wantmotor1207?_trksid=p2047675.l2563
[20:43:31] <joebog> finally DO have it this time
[20:43:43] <joebog> its wantmotor not wei motor
[20:43:47] <CaptHindsight> joebog: the main problem with motors and gearboxes like that will be "consistent" quality
[20:43:47] <andypugh> einar_: Probably too late to tell you this now, but there are much easier ways to get recent builds of LinuxCNC than compiling from source!
[20:44:05] <joebog> BUT if you search the manufacturers listing you end up at Weimotor
[20:44:32] <andypugh> einar_: http://buildbot.linuxcnc.org
[20:44:54] <einar_> Maybe not. As said, I need one more for my mill. Want to swap from Mach3.
[20:44:59] <joebog> CaptHindsight I have faith in that :) after all MOST of the motors we use are made in China !!
[20:45:40] <CaptHindsight> joebog: they all can make great precision parts, but the raw materials will vary and the QC based on who was running the machines and working that day
[20:46:00] <CaptHindsight> it's up to you to discover any problems
[20:46:08] <joebog> USA Free! Wantai 3 Axis Nema34 Stepper Motor 1232oz-in+Drive​r 80V 7.8A CNC Grind
[20:46:44] <joebog> and thats a 3 axis setup complete with motors power supply and driver boards all for $500
[20:47:13] <CaptHindsight> lots of CNC manufacturers actually have their iron made in China to their spec and nobody is the wiser
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[20:48:12] <joebog> you could make em in USA Captain BUT pay 500 bucks for each motor
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[20:49:42] <joebog> my car is made in Korea, and its best car I have ever owned !!!
[20:49:42] <joebog> all mercedes benz stuff
[20:49:54] <joebog> Ssangyong
[20:50:10] <joebog> and they been makin cars since 1952
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[20:52:02] <CaptHindsight> I make things in China a well, you just have to find suppliers you can rely on
[20:52:13] <CaptHindsight> a/as
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[20:52:47] <joebog> agreed
[20:53:22] <joebog> If I get this machine running properly and add the 4th axis I have a barrel machine to do next
[20:53:35] <joebog> it actually works but is DOS based
[20:53:36] <CaptHindsight> 40 years ago Japan was thought of as makers of cheap low quality products
[20:53:51] <joebog> then Ill try wantmotor products
[20:54:13] <joebog> yep now nobody can afford origional japanese stuff
[20:54:17] <CaptHindsight> they use the same machine tools in China as anywhere else in the world
[20:54:55] <CaptHindsight> I see the same robots, stages, servos etc there
[20:55:17] <CaptHindsight> they just have a different work ethic
[20:55:20] <joebog> yep
[20:55:40] <joebog> and now they make the robots for the japs, china I mean
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[20:55:57] <joebog> hmm china makes the robots for the japs
[20:56:00] <joebog> thats better
[20:56:15] <einar_> Did any of you use the HF spindles from China? If so, what's the experience?
[20:57:01] <CaptHindsight> einar_: the water cooled HF types have worked well
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[20:57:45] <CaptHindsight> http://www.cnczone.com/forums/general_metal_working_machines/118358-phenolic_basalt_head_hm45.html
[20:57:54] <einar_> Ehen messages come up in red here (Xchat), why?
[20:58:07] <einar_> Ehen=When
[20:58:09] <CaptHindsight> 2.2Kw water cooled from linearmotionbearings2008
[20:58:38] <skunkworks> einar_: when someone is talking directly to you
[20:59:15] <einar_> skunkworks: Like this?
[20:59:24] <skunkworks> right
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[20:59:43] <CaptHindsight> einar_: but it doesn't mean that you might get the flaky one
[21:00:06] <einar_> skunkworks: Then does that mean only you can read it?
[21:00:19] <joebog> CaptHindsight, China is on a roll in 20 years everything will be made there
[21:00:23] <kengu> einar_: nope.
[21:00:38] <kengu> einar_: that is another thing then
[21:00:40] <joebog> look at your own unemployment situation, all caused by cheap imports
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[21:01:06] <CaptHindsight> joebog: except for munitions and military equip
[21:01:24] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: no ammo available
[21:02:05] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: many stores are 8 months out from restock
[21:02:14] <joebog> http://www.ebay.com/itm/US-DE-Free-Wantai-4Axis-Nema34-Stepper-Motor-1232oz-in-Driver-80V-7-8A-Milling-/221283207655?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item338581c9e7
[21:02:43] <joebog> $650 bucks !!!!
[21:03:14] <joebog> I dunno Capt, the AK47,s china makes are known as some of the best ever !!!
[21:03:33] <joebog> I found this out working for the gunsmith Im doing the work for
[21:03:37] <CaptHindsight> Jymmm: well everyone had to stock up for the coming rapture, anarchy, Zombie Apocalypse etc
[21:03:47] <kengu> joebog: there was just in the news that the sovi.. russians are getting a new model
[21:04:00] <cradek> and to defend themselves against mental health care!
[21:04:18] <joebog> hee hee hee
[21:04:19] <CaptHindsight> lol
[21:04:21] <Jymmm> Does anyone have any reference material on tabs, slots, grooves, fold,s etc like what you might find in cardboard boxes or other "toolless assembly" ?
[21:04:25] <joebog> is politics allowed here ?
[21:04:28] <cradek> oh did I troll first? sorry
[21:04:34] <cradek> joebog: trolling is :-)
[21:04:55] <joebog> ha ha ha
[21:07:55] <DJ9DJ> gn8
[21:07:58] <andypugh> I am never sure what the etymology of "trolling" is. Hiding under a bridge waiting for goats, maybe?
[21:08:21] <t12> i figured it was more like
[21:08:23] <t12> trolling for fish
[21:08:36] <Jymmm> andypugh: instigating
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[21:08:51] <joebog> in aus is looking for a slapper at the pub :)
[21:08:59] <false> t12: maybe before that?
[21:09:18] <Jymmm> andypugh: Like saying mach3 is better than blah
[21:09:46] <joebog> mach3 = old kawasaki 3 cyl 2 stroke motorbike
[21:09:57] <joebog> :D
[21:10:05] <Jymmm> joebog: razor.
[21:10:52] <joebog> razor ??? my beard is 18 inches long !!!
[21:11:42] <CaptHindsight> trolling: informal, submit a deliberately provocative posting to an online message board with the aim of inciting an angry response.
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[21:12:03] <Jymmm> Where can I find a list of various joints? Like french cleat, tongue and groove, dove tail, ball joint, etc (not just the typical woodworking ones)
[21:12:32] <Chemeleon> dont think I've ever come across a page designed just to classify all joint types
[21:12:41] <Chemeleon> there was someone that put up a big doc of joinery designed to be cut on a cnc though
[21:13:08] <Jymmm> Chemeleon: link?
[21:13:21] <Chemeleon> http://www.flexiblestream.org/Digital-Wood-Joints-001.php think this is what I'm thinking of
[21:13:29] <joebog> another chinese site
[21:13:29] <joebog> I saw a posting of "hinges" but made from machined aluminium for robotics
[21:13:39] <Jymmm> I'm really looking for eiher sheetmetal or cardboard box joinery types
[21:13:50] <Chemeleon> ah, these are all for wood
[21:14:05] <Jymmm> Chemeleon: That's fine, it's a start.
[21:14:09] <Chemeleon> sheet metal would be too thin, though I guess they'd work with plate
[21:14:53] <Jymmm> Yeah, I was thinking like those POS displays for new products you see in the stores
[21:15:04] <Jymmm> made out of cardboard
[21:15:23] <Chemeleon> I would think those're mostly just half lap, tabs, and glue?
[21:15:40] <Jymmm> No clue at all. Sme have shelves, pockets, etc
[21:15:52] <Jymmm> angled, etc
[21:16:12] <Jymmm> But somebody/thing has to design that stuff. But no clue on the art of it
[21:16:45] <Chemeleon> http://makezine.com/2012/04/13/cnc-panel-joinery-notebook/ more pictures from that first link's joints here
[21:16:57] <Jymmm> If it works on cardboard, it'll wor for what I need.
[21:17:10] <Chemeleon> maybe just go to grocery stores, etc, and ask them for their old displays? I bet they just get thrown out
[21:17:11] <joebog> NEMA17 GEARED 14:1 Stepper motor 1.8 degrees step / 26.4kg/cm 1A 2.6V Extruder
[21:17:17] <Chemeleon> that way you could tear them apart to see how they were built
[21:17:21] <joebog> 26.4 kilogram torque !!!
[21:19:01] <CaptHindsight> how about origami?
[21:19:11] <Jymmm> Chemeleon: Some of this latches are impressively elaborate. I just need the book on them =)
[21:19:22] <andypugh> joebog: Yes, but that's kg.cm and probably at 100rpm max.
[21:19:41] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: too thin =)
[21:23:34] <false> pcw_home: fiy, im back
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[21:26:13] <andypugh> Jymmm: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corrugated_box_design
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[21:26:52] <andypugh> Maybe useful links there?
[21:27:33] <Jymmm> andypugh: thanks
[21:27:44] <PCW> false: freeby.mesanet.com/svstss1_4_3.bit
[21:27:46] <PCW> 8 encoders 4 stepgens 3 sserial 1 pwmgen
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[21:28:26] <PCW> 100% full XC2S200
[21:28:43] <false> You sir, are the best, thanks!!
[21:29:10] <PCW> untested may asplode etc etc
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[21:30:36] <false> I'll wear my safety glasses :P
[21:30:42] <JT-Shop> lol
[21:31:17] <joebog> :D
[21:32:05] <andypugh> PCW what was the max abs encoder instance count again?
[21:32:38] <Tecan> 13T gears off ebay are the ones you want for most printer carrier belts
[21:32:51] <Tecan> price wise
[21:33:22] <joebog> http://stores.ebay.com/Changzhou-Longs-Motor-Co-Ltd?_trksid=p2047675.l2563
[21:33:41] <joebog> another shop that adds to my wish list
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[21:35:39] <kengu> my wishlist is too long to fit anywhere
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[21:38:21] <joebog> I know how you feel
[21:38:30] <PCW> andypugh physical (decode) limit is 64 practical is probably 32
[21:38:45] <joebog> this is the first time I have tried to "build" anything myself
[21:39:08] <joebog> I have repaired heaps of stuff over the years, and never knew how much fun it is :D
[21:39:59] <joebog> I will be "playing" after this though
[21:40:07] <joebog> can just hear wifey screaming " More Junk "
[21:40:30] <joebog> :D
[21:44:27] <Jymmm> joebog: If you didn't bother earning extra brownie points the rest of the year, that's your own damn fault
[21:44:49] <joebog> :)
[21:44:54] <joebog> yeah mebbe
[21:45:10] <andypugh> http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/science-technology/everyone-desperate-to-try-parbuckling-2013091779553
[21:45:17] <joebog> I already have two valve amplifiers to complete :)
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[21:46:53] <Jymmm> andypugh: lol
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[21:55:02] <JT-Shop> Helen Archer, from Hatfield, said: Theres a big fat girl in my office. Im going trip her up in the corridor and then parbcukle her using an umbrella and a very big chocolate chip cookie.
[21:56:24] <joebog> Part No.: 42HS5460 Frame Size: NEMA42 Step Angle: 1.8 degree Voltage: 5.44VDC Current: 6.0A/phase Resistance: 0.8Ohm/phase Inductance: 15mH/phase Holding torque: 230 Kg-cm 3256oz-in Rotor inertia: 1090 g-cm2 Number of wire leads: 4 Weight: 8.4kg Length:
[21:56:38] <joebog> that costs $115 bucks
[21:56:45] <joebog> is that a good price ?
[21:57:40] <joebog> er and even are the specs OK ?
[21:57:45] <Chemeleon> about half the price of lower oz-in rated motors from automation technology, so I'd guess it likely is
[21:57:56] <Chemeleon> thats a pretty beefy motor, driving something fairly big/heavy I guess?
[21:58:10] <joebog> freight is $85
[21:58:29] <joebog> dunno yet chemeleon
[21:58:41] <joebog> I still learning :)
[21:58:49] <andypugh> NEMA42 is huge
[21:58:53] <Chemeleon> yea
[21:59:00] -!- Simooon [Simooon!~simon@gw.obelnet.dk] has joined #linuxcnc
[21:59:03] <joebog> BUT I have a barrel machine to get going after the engraver
[21:59:12] <andypugh> You know to ignore the DC voltge rating?
[21:59:20] <joebog> yup
[21:59:28] <Chemeleon> most diy cnc routers use nema 23 it seems, occasionally nema 34
[21:59:37] <joebog> can prolly run the 42 series at 100 volts
[21:59:49] <andypugh> At that size I would tend to prefer servos. Especially if it isn't my money :-)
[22:00:10] <Chemeleon> I used nema23 425ozin steppers on my first cnc router for wood, they seem plenty strong enough, *extremely* difficult to stop things by hand
[22:00:17] <joebog> I havent found too many cheap servos yet
[22:00:21] <andypugh> You probably want to be looking at the direct mains-powered stepper drivers.
[22:00:40] <Chemeleon> http://www.automationtechnologiesinc.com/products-page/stepper-nema23-4-axis-kits/4-axis-nema23-cnc-kit-36v9-7a425oz-inkl4030
[22:00:43] <Chemeleon> thats the set I used on my first one
[22:00:56] <Chemeleon> but if you order direct from china via aliexpress or the like, you can shave a fair bit off that price
[22:01:11] <joebog> yep I figuerd that. The same company has a 4 axis setup with plug in driver boards in a cage
[22:01:20] <joebog> looks almost euro size
[22:01:34] <JT-Shop> I tend to not guess at what to run a stepper... just the facts Ma'am
[22:01:53] <Chemeleon> euro size?
[22:02:07] <andypugh> joebog: This sort of thing (240VAC input) http://www.zappautomation.co.uk/en/digital-stepper-drivers/318-2m2280n.html
[22:02:17] <joebog> yah euro case was a gadget from a few years ago
[22:02:21] <Chemeleon> I'm planning to use the same sort of setup for that smaller cnc I've been designing, just with only 1 motor on the y axis rather than 2
[22:02:32] <Chemeleon> figure if it works fine for the big one, ought to be more than enough for the small one :)
[22:02:35] <joebog> all plug in boards for PC control and a variety of diff I/O
[22:02:41] <joebog> mostly for SCADA
[22:02:49] <Chemeleon> and found a 3 piece set on aliexpress for about $250, so its fairly inexpensive too
[22:03:54] <joebog> about $300 in aus for that andy
[22:04:33] <andypugh> joebog: If I was building a machine for myself I think I wold be looking at this eBay store: http://tinyurl.com/ppgxd72
[22:04:36] <Chemeleon> so anyway, back to the original question, that nema42 is probably *way* more than most applications need :)
[22:04:46] <andypugh> But those are all second-hand
[22:04:58] <joebog> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Cheap-German-Ship-3Axis-NEMA34-Stepper-Motor1090-oz-in-4-0A-CNC-CutRouter-/281169559506?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item417702ffd2
[22:05:04] <joebog> thats not bad
[22:05:47] <andypugh> That was a search for his 3-axis sets only.
[22:06:12] <Tom_itx> is DC servo better than AC?
[22:06:19] <joebog> Ill have another look at that when I win the lotto andy :)
[22:07:46] <andypugh> Those prices are generally a full set of motors, matching drives and connectors. The connectors can cost a fortune. My mill has three motors I paid £50 for the set for. Then _each_ motor needed £50 in connectors.
[22:08:31] <joebog> yeah I know !!!! andy connectors can be really over the top
[22:08:58] <joebog> I can buy a cheap phone jack plug for 50m cents, at the other end they cost me $15
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[22:09:12] <andypugh> I found 54 Lemo connectors in the skip at work a few weeks ago. They, err, followed me home.
[22:09:32] <joebog> :D more junk the wife yells andy ?
[22:10:06] <andypugh> I have taken the precaution of being uninteresting to women.
[22:10:09] <joebog> I have 3000 valves !!! they take LOTS of room
[22:10:20] <Chemeleon> what do you have them for joe?
[22:10:22] <joebog> wifey hates em
[22:10:44] <Chemeleon> past year or so, I've started trying to make more of an effort not to hold onto random odds and ends because they might be useful one day
[22:10:47] <Chemeleon> especially the wood scraps
[22:10:53] <joebog> I have been building valve audio for the last 50 years as a hobby Chemeleon
[22:11:16] <joebog> but was an elec eng to start with
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[22:11:46] <joebog> NOW I drive heavy lift cranes in mining, because the Govt didnt want engineers
[22:12:32] <joebog> BUT as all the mines have almost shutdown I havent worked for 8 months :)
[22:12:40] <Chemeleon> :(
[22:12:54] <joebog> <--- VERY broke
[22:13:07] <joebog> thats why Im building CNC mills
[22:13:13] <Tom_itx> you still have interweb
[22:13:14] <Chemeleon> I'm approaching that stage myself, sometime in the next few months will determine if I have to go back for a regular job or not
[22:13:33] <joebog> and for cheap, but its an income of sorts
[22:13:40] <Chemeleon> though, if the current stuff I have in motion is as promising as it seems so far, I'll be fine
[22:13:50] <Chemeleon> working on some bundle deals with my software and cnc manufacturers currently :)
[22:14:09] <Chemeleon> I dont think it'd be "get rich" money, but i t would at least ensure a steady income stream that'll cover my standard bills
[22:14:12] <joebog> Tom_itx I worked for the CSIRO when the chapparal feed horn was developed, thats what makes the net AND yer mobile phone work
[22:14:59] <Chemeleon> not to mention a big pr boost, which would presumably help direct sales pick up
[22:15:05] <joebog> I built the antenna testing station
[22:15:23] <joebog> motor drives used the first BIG MOSFETS available
[22:15:25] <Tom_itx> so you get free interweb?
[22:15:36] <Chemeleon> heh
[22:15:39] <Tom_itx> broke is relative
[22:16:03] <joebog> yeah !!!! like $80 a month for 16 gigs total bandwidth ALL at a staggering 100kbits/sec
[22:16:22] <Chemeleon> I would say for me, "broke" means covering normal bills becomes tricky
[22:16:22] <joebog> and thats offa the satelite
[22:16:38] <joebog> chemeleon has it
[22:16:50] <joebog> we live thinly but pay our way
[22:16:56] <Chemeleon> I'm already below the "safe" point I prefer to keep in the bank, but Im expecting enough of a payout from this past quarter of royalties to at least put that back in the safe zone for a few months
[22:17:11] <joebog> I do have a 480 acre backyard Tom
[22:17:18] <Chemeleon> and while I live comfortably, own my own house, etc, my cost of living is very low thankfully
[22:17:20] <joebog> so no DSL here
[22:17:34] <Chemeleon> I can live off 1k or a bit less without having to make any sacrifices
[22:17:37] <Chemeleon> nice joe :)
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[22:17:45] <Chemeleon> that much space would almost justify the weak internet even for me
[22:17:47] <joebog> I STILL pay rent at 60 years of age
[22:18:02] <Chemeleon> next place I get I want at least 100 acres
[22:18:15] <Chemeleon> and a shop big enough for a forklift ;)
[22:18:21] <joebog> NO BLOhemeleonODY neighbors wins every time C
[22:18:32] <joebog> wow ???
[22:18:38] <Chemeleon> interesting typo :P
[22:18:42] <joebog> seems the PC gets bitter at caps :)
[22:18:52] <Chemeleon> and yea, thats basically why
[22:19:11] <Chemeleon> theres some busy body near me who fusses to the town whenever my grass breaks about 5" in height, despite the ordinance saying up to 12" is fine
[22:19:22] <Chemeleon> sick and tired of those annoying "mow your yard or we'll arrest you" letters :\
[22:19:31] <joebog> sugar cane, bananas, longuns, etc here
[22:19:46] -!- sliptonic has quit [Quit: Coyote finally caught me]
[22:19:50] <joebog> although its what grows about here I only have a very modest vegie patch
[22:19:58] <Chemeleon> heck, one letter complained about a pickup truck sitting in my driveway, licensed, registered, insured, drivable, etc
[22:20:13] <Chemeleon> but I hadnt moved it from its spot in the driveway for awhile, so they threw a hissey fit, despite it being completely legal to have it there
[22:20:37] <joebog> where ya live Chemeleon ?
[22:20:41] <Chemeleon> it just wasnt my truck, mom bought it up here, dad didnt want to trust it on the 2 hour drive to their h ouse until he had time to work ont he brakes and steering, and I didnt have the keys
[22:20:44] <Chemeleon> chester, sc, usa
[22:20:56] <Chemeleon> one of those old mill towns that had the mills leave a few decades ago
[22:21:04] <Tom_itx> SC's about a decade behind the world anyway
[22:21:05] <joebog> OK
[22:21:10] <Chemeleon> dirt cheap to live here, but its just slowly dying off
[22:21:23] <Chemeleon> from 2000 to 2010 census, the town lost 20% of its population (5k to 4k)
[22:21:25] <joebog> I lke some o yer music, BUT remind me not to visit that town :)
[22:21:31] <Chemeleon> where a town 20 minutes away grew from 30k to 70k
[22:21:58] <Chemeleon> supposedly theres some big new industry coming to the county soon, going to invest 40 million and bring in over 300 jobs
[22:22:07] <Chemeleon> but for some reason, they're keeping the company name very hush hush
[22:22:09] <joebog> Mareeba used be tobacco town, the gummit took away the tobacco now town is failing here too
[22:22:20] <Chemeleon> was supposed to be annoucned 2 weeks ago after months of secrecy, then last week, but still nothing yet
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[22:22:42] <joebog> restarting Winchester perhaps Chemeleon ?
[22:23:01] <Chemeleon> no idea, theres not even been a rumor of who it might be so far
[22:23:07] <joebog> yanks do have a penchant fer shooting things
[22:23:13] <Chemeleon> a gun company might make sense, as our state gov has been pushing for them to move to this state
[22:23:31] <JT-Shop> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C4p2iZTIDog
[22:23:33] <Tecan> (C4p2iZTIDog) "Tom Lehrer - She's My Girl" by "slayerowns666" is "Entertainment" - Length: 0:01:49
[22:23:35] <joebog> another 13 yesterday :(
[22:23:39] <Chemeleon> I asked around a bit, even the people that typically know everything thats going on around town havent heard who it is
[22:24:01] <joebog> Atomic dump perhaps ?
[22:24:05] <Chemeleon> heh
[22:24:21] <joebog> nah Obama too smart for that !!
[22:24:44] <Chemeleon> I'm thinking if I cant get the cnc software bringing in a livable income soon, I may try for a job at boeing, they're only about 3 hours south of here, so wouldnt be *too* bad to move
[22:24:52] <joebog> I dunno what you guys think of him, but highly admired in aus !!
[22:24:57] <Chemeleon> younger brother started there earlier this year, and for some reason lately, he *really* wants me to get a job there
[22:25:04] <Tom_itx> sneaky bastard
[22:25:04] <Chemeleon> in SC, obama is almost universally disliked :)
[22:25:32] <joebog> ya have my problem Chemeleon !!! I have the skills still ( I think) town is too small to seell what ya make
[22:25:48] <joebog> ya need big industrial city to use what you are working on
[22:25:57] <Chemeleon> the annoying thing with boeing, is their job postings are just rediculously vauge
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[22:26:07] <Chemeleon> going by their job postings, I'm qualified for nearly every single position in the company :)
[22:26:52] <joebog> I left Sydney 25 years ago and moved 2 1/2 thousand miles north !!! I aint goin back
[22:26:57] <Chemeleon> I'm just waiting for them to post looking for a new ceo to apply ;)
[22:27:11] <Chemeleon> heh, thats a bit of a haul :)
[22:27:19] <joebog> I was SCADA engineer there
[22:27:24] <Chemeleon> never went more than about 500 miles per move growing up
[22:27:35] <joebog> 3 days in my THEN Alfa Romeo
[22:27:48] <Chemeleon> have to admit, if I do end up moving, I'm not looking forward to having to move the shop
[22:28:12] <joebog> wait till ya meet them thar' city slickers !!!!
[22:28:15] <Chemeleon> I'll probably have to hire riggers to ohandle it, ran the numbers, and if I did it myself, it'd be about 2-3 weeks working all day every day just to move the shop
[22:28:52] <Chemeleon> boeing would pay enough I wouldnt have to sell this house right away at least, so I could let things sit for a bit
[22:29:08] <joebog> I have riggers ticket :) how much yer payin ?
[22:29:10] <joebog> :D
[22:29:16] <Chemeleon> heh
[22:29:18] <Chemeleon> I'm cheap :)
[22:29:36] <Jymmm> andypugh: http://www.instructables.com/id/DIY-Furniture/
[22:29:37] <joebog> and crane licence up to 2000 tons
[22:29:46] <joebog> I never even seen a 2000 ton crane
[22:30:00] <Chemeleon> best bet would probalby be to pack up the small stuff, then push everything against a wall so a forklift could get in there
[22:30:04] <joebog> and thats english REAL tons, not yer short change yankee ones
[22:30:28] <Chemeleon> theres only two machines that wouldnt fit through the big door upright, the northfield bandsdaw and the huge drill press
[22:30:49] <andypugh> Jymmm: This is my idea of DIY furniture: https://plus.google.com/photos/108164504656404380542/albums/5854209973166221953?banner=pwa
[22:30:52] <Chemeleon> in hind sight, I should have done a 9' tall doorway rather than 7'
[22:31:21] <joebog> I can JUST lift my (chinese) drill press, and the bandsaw is wrapped in a tarp on the front lawwn :)
[22:31:39] <Chemeleon> yea...my drill press is kinda rediculous :)
[22:31:53] <joebog> I basically build electronics not machine toolss :)
[22:31:56] <Chemeleon> north carolina used to have tons of furniture and machinist companies, but they've been going out of business and auctioning things off for years
[22:32:09] <Chemeleon> so I've got a fairly ready source of big cheap old industrial iron
[22:32:21] <joebog> chinese imports Chemeleon !!! same as here !!
[22:32:34] <Chemeleon> and I *might* have a slight issue with size... so yea: www.chemeleon.net/drillPress_wip10.jpg
[22:32:50] <Chemeleon> it doesnt look *too* big there, until you note the top of the cyclone beside it is 6' high
[22:33:10] <joebog> my band saw used to make coffins :D till the company closed from lack of "raw material"
[22:33:20] <Chemeleon> from the 1920s or 30s
[22:33:22] <Chemeleon> 11" stroke :)
[22:33:33] <Chemeleon> one of these days I need to finish painting that last little bit
[22:33:55] <Chemeleon> roughly 3200 pounds give or take
[22:34:10] <Chemeleon> which wouldnt be too bad with a forklift I suppose, but its a bit of work with just a pallet jack and shop crane ;)
[22:34:16] <joebog> nice machine !!!
[22:34:26] <Chemeleon> it purrs :)
[22:34:40] <joebog> we didnt get much yank machine tools here
[22:34:49] <Chemeleon> I did nothing to it beyond clean off decades of dusty grease, repaint, and put new oil in it
[22:34:49] <joebog> almost everything ya see is english
[22:35:00] <Chemeleon> runs flawlessly, no vibration of course, and the gears inside the top there could be brand new
[22:35:13] <Chemeleon> forward and reverse, variable speed, power feed, etc
[22:35:25] <Chemeleon> the one thing I do need to test yet, is whether it has a tap clutch or not
[22:35:37] <joebog> yep, yanks used to make nice stuff, BUT ya nearly all drive Toyota's now
[22:35:41] <Chemeleon> some references I found implied it should, others didnt mention it, but nothing showed any way to determine if it does or not
[22:35:44] <Chemeleon> heh, yea
[22:35:50] <joebog> yanks, like aussies have "lost the art"
[22:35:56] <Chemeleon> modern machinery works fine, but its got nothing on the heavy old stuff
[22:36:21] <Chemeleon> functionally for me, theres not a huge difference between this and the chinese made modern drill press I had before
[22:36:31] <Chemeleon> but even so, the variable speed, power feed, etc are really nice to have
[22:36:38] <joebog> no harmonics is what ya mean Chemeleon
[22:36:38] <Chemeleon> and I can drill out a pepper mill blank in one pass :)
[22:37:01] <Chemeleon> its also got the biggest 5hp motor I've ever seen
[22:37:06] <joebog> :D
[22:37:14] <Chemeleon> you cant really get a sense of the motors scale on the back there, but its massive
[22:37:19] <joebog> pepper mill ??? does macdonalds use pepper mills ?
[22:37:31] <Chemeleon> http://chemeleon.net/pepperMill7_done.jpg
[22:37:38] <Chemeleon> http://chemeleon.net/pepperMill3_done.jpg
[22:37:42] <Chemeleon> that sort of thing :)
[22:37:44] <joebog> :D cheeky sorry, but all I see on TV about yank food comes in cardboard boxes
[22:38:01] <Chemeleon> for the record, I eat mcdonalds *maybe* once or twice a year
[22:38:15] <Chemeleon> 95%+ of what I eat I make from scratch at home
[22:38:42] <Chemeleon> of course, now that I have a drill press that can make drilling out the pepper mills easier, I've not had call to make any since I got it...
[22:38:45] <joebog> I neva been into ANY takeaway shop !!! ever and Im 60
[22:38:56] <Chemeleon> still need to figure out a cheap but strong way to clamp the blanks into place anyway
[22:39:08] <joebog> VERY nice work !!!! can I have one in fiddleback maple please ?
[22:39:14] <Chemeleon> I've got an 11.5" mt3 drill bit for it, but that builds up quite a bit of torque as it starts to reach depth
[22:39:36] <Chemeleon> if you want to pay for it, sure :)
[22:39:52] <joebog> I have the maple !!! but its aussie maple
[22:40:09] <joebog> used for airplane propellors beleive it or not
[22:40:18] <Chemeleon> they're quite easy to make as long as you have a lathe
[22:40:27] <joebog> yep
[22:40:27] <Chemeleon> takes me maybe an hour or so per from start to finish
[22:40:38] <Chemeleon> except for that one glued up one of course, glue time adds to that naturally
[22:40:54] <joebog> no lathe here I buy the resistors and capacitors the right size :D I dont have to turn em down
[22:40:56] <joebog> :D
[22:41:12] <Chemeleon> heh
[22:41:39] <Chemeleon> I just use a cheep chinese import wood lathe, want something bigger at some point, but thats going to have to wait until I have time to build it
[22:41:55] <Chemeleon> just isnt cost effective for me to buy the sort I want, and thats one tool where the old stuff doesnt really come big enough
[22:42:15] <Chemeleon> I want 20" swing min, preferably greater, so the lathe is no longer my limiting factor
[22:42:18] <joebog> good lathe is cast iron !!!
[22:42:26] <joebog> pretty difficult to make at home
[22:42:29] <Chemeleon> I've never seen an old wood lathe of that size, just metal
[22:42:32] <Chemeleon> concrete :)
[22:42:37] <Chemeleon> or so's the plan anyway
[22:43:00] <Chemeleon> gives you the mass and vibration dampening, fairly easy to form, etc
[22:43:04] <joebog> thats the sort of stuff I do
[22:43:09] <joebog> theres even a pic of me
[22:43:16] <joebog> DONT freak out !!! :D
[22:43:24] <joebog> http://s80.photobucket.com/user/amp_mangler/library/?sort=3&page=1
[22:43:25] <Chemeleon> I've seen posts of a few made like that, seems to be right in line with what I want, and relatively inexpensive
[22:43:50] <Chemeleon> that looks like old school stuff :)
[22:44:21] <Chemeleon> I may have to pick your brain at some point, have an old radio freq gluer I need to make time to troubleshoot at some point
[22:44:27] <joebog> Im old !!!!
[22:44:31] <Chemeleon> bought two at an aution, one works, one doesnt
[22:44:32] <joebog> what did ya think ???
[22:44:37] <Chemeleon> heh
[22:44:40] <joebog> MP3 ???? EEEEKKKKK!!!!!!!!!!!!!
[22:45:00] <joebog> I need to see it
[22:45:05] <joebog> will need pics
[22:45:30] <joebog> I have thousands of LP,s and my turntable is older than me !!!
[22:45:39] <Chemeleon> so far I've just popped the cover off, everything looks to be connected up fine at least
[22:45:45] <andypugh> joebog: There are a couple of guys who use linuxCNC to make some _really_ special stuff: http://www.deweygarrett.com is one, I can't recall the name of the other guy.
[22:45:49] <joebog> made in England of course !!!
[22:45:49] <Chemeleon> need to try swapping the hand units, to confirm thats not all thats wrong with it
[22:46:24] <Chemeleon> hoping I wont have to swap out tubes, as the ones it uses are a bit pricey
[22:46:37] <Chemeleon> looked like around $100 to buy them from random places online, $250 per from the manufacturer
[22:47:16] <Chemeleon> I figure if its not cost effective for me to fix, I'll just throw it up on craigslist for a bit more than I paid with the caveat that it needs parts first
[22:47:26] <joebog> I need know what CHOOBS ya need
[22:47:30] <Chemeleon> they're about 4.5k new, 1-2k used, and I only paid $300ish for that one
[22:47:31] <joebog> I have thousands
[22:47:48] <joebog> nice stuff andy !!!
[22:48:38] <joebog> although Im a tad old fashioned that way, NICE turning is done by hand NOT CNC
[22:48:41] <andypugh> And the other one (I found him) http://www.billooms.com
[22:49:00] <joebog> CNC is for mass production, thats my theory and Im a stickin to it :)
[22:49:08] <andypugh> joebog: There is a _very_ long history of ornamental turning.
[22:49:21] <joebog> I know andy
[22:49:40] <Chemeleon> http://www.billooms.com/Gallery/Ornamental/Pierced3.jpg I really like this one, will have to try that one day
[22:49:43] <joebog> and the first stuff was turned by a (violin) bow thousands of years ago :)
[22:51:29] <Chemeleon> I definitely prefer motors to hand powered in most cases :)
[22:51:34] <joebog> There is one thing wrong with CNC "art"
[22:51:45] <Chemeleon> I blame the power company for most of my big tools
[22:51:55] <joebog> its perfect and art is NOT perfect !!! it reflects the person making it !!!
[22:52:07] <Chemeleon> for some crazy reason, when I was building my shop, they thought it would be a good idea to run 200 amp 3ph power to my shop for free :)
[22:52:23] <Chemeleon> new transformers at the street, new pole, about 20' buried cable, etc, zero charge
[22:52:33] <Chemeleon> makes *no* sense to me, theres no way they'll recoup that cost from me
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[22:52:56] <Chemeleon> but meant all that big stuff that would have been a bit of a hassle to use suddenly became no big deal :)
[22:53:17] <Chemeleon> joe, that depends on the machine, my current one has enough potential slop that things usually arent quite "perfect" ;)
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[22:54:29] <joebog> unfortunately Chemeleon yanks still use "silly power" 110 volts so I suppose your 3 phase is 220 volts or close
[22:54:38] <joebog> that means THOUSANDS of amps !!!
[22:54:42] <Chemeleon> yea, its 220v
[22:55:05] <joebog> the whole world is metric APART from the yanks !!!
[22:55:07] <Chemeleon> I could have gone higher, but didnt see any real need
[22:55:08] <JT-Shop> could be 480 or 9600 here depends on where you plug in at
[22:55:15] <Chemeleon> yea, the rest ofya'll should just fall in line and get with us ;)
[22:55:24] <joebog> yer gallons are short changed, yer tons are short changed
[22:55:39] <joebog> 3 phase in australia is 440 volts
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[22:55:42] <joebog> always was !!!
[22:55:55] <joebog> normal household is 240 volts
[22:55:59] <Chemeleon> 440 was an option, 600 might have been too, didnt ask about that high
[22:56:10] <Chemeleon> our voltage is more a range than specific
[22:56:18] <joebog> 7 KVa is what is "normal" but even my house here is 3 phase
[22:56:26] <Chemeleon> you'll hear 110,115,120, or 220, 240, etc used largely interchangably
[22:56:53] <Chemeleon> 3ph is fairly unusual to see at residential around here, mostly just at businesses
[22:57:11] <joebog> I have lived in most parts of australia !!! the only place thats not 240 volts single pahes, or 440 volts 3 phase is western australia
[22:57:21] <Chemeleon> and I'm still floored my electric company ran it for free
[22:57:36] <joebog> its HUGE state and they have 260 volts and 500 volts to make up for long runs and volatge drop
[22:57:38] <Chemeleon> I'd called to ask about it while planning the shop just on a whim, they said they'd have to send an engineer out to inspect the site before they could give me a quote
[22:57:52] <Chemeleon> he walks around, starts talking new transformers, new poles, trenching, etc, and I'm just seeing the cost rack up
[22:58:02] <Chemeleon> then he just starts walking away "ok, we'll be out in a month to do the work"
[22:58:07] <Chemeleon> "err, what? whats this going to cost me??"
[22:58:14] <Chemeleon> "oh, I forgot to say, its free"
[22:58:27] <joebog> heh heh
[22:58:43] <joebog> good score !!!!
[22:58:50] <joebog> here WE pay for the transformer and poles and THEY keep it
[22:58:54] <Chemeleon> it does cost 2 cents/kwh more than the power my house is on, but just not having to trench and run a heavy cable from my house power to the shop justifies that
[22:59:09] <Chemeleon> they had a crew of 3 out here for two days, about 6 hours each day working on it
[22:59:24] <Chemeleon> I figure when you add in the 3 big transformers and whatnot, they probably spent 5-10k to set things up
[22:59:33] <Chemeleon> my average shop electric bill is about $30/month
[22:59:35] <joebog> if they fit new transformer they will fit 200 KVa to cope with any " expansion" and I would prolly pay $50k for it
[22:59:42] <joebog> poles are $5k each
[22:59:53] <Chemeleon> hmm, maybe I underestimated their cost :)
[23:00:41] <joebog> hhhmmm I pay $400 a quarter for my electricity
[23:00:44] <joebog> ALL my stuff is low watts
[23:00:59] <joebog> I used to have electric stove but I fitted gas
[23:01:09] <joebog> used to be 700$ a quarter !!!!!
[23:01:09] <Chemeleon> I probably average 2-3 hours of time in the shop each day overall
[23:01:21] <Chemeleon> tons of lights, a large window ac unit, and of course the machinery
[23:01:51] <joebog> JUST pleasant !!!
[23:01:51] <joebog> no A/C here it only gets to 40 C temperature
[23:01:51] <joebog> :D
[23:01:57] <joebog> and I HATE aircon
[23:02:17] <joebog> its standard in the car, but Ive never even tested it to see if it works
[23:02:21] <Chemeleon> I skipped the ac to start, I dont run it in the house at all, but the shop would get a little toasty mid summer, and I stumbled across a real cheap unit, so figured what the heck
[23:02:41] <Chemeleon> my house has a unit, but its 13" thick stone walls with high ceilings, and I put a big whole house fan in a few years ago
[23:02:54] <Chemeleon> when it gets too warm, I run that for a half hour or so in the evening to blow all the hot air out
[23:03:06] <Chemeleon> stays a good 10-15 deg cooler inside than out typically, which is plenty comfortable enough
[23:03:12] <Chemeleon> F degrees that is :)
[23:03:45] <joebog> <-- old timber queenslander looks something like yank federation house
[23:04:02] <joebog> weatherboard with verytical tongue and grrove walls
[23:04:23] <joebog> inside
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[23:05:12] <tjtr33> Jymmm, http://courses.washington.edu/art166sp/documents/Spring2012/lectures/week_8/CardboardTabs&SupportsHandout.pdf
[23:05:19] <joebog> tin roof with no insulation, :) 3 ply ( 1/4" ) ceilings
[23:05:47] <joebog> house is 120 years old
[23:06:02] <joebog> was moved here when the local dam was built
[23:06:28] <Chemeleon> mines 105 now
[23:06:33] <tjtr33> Jymmm, all architecture and design schools have annual competitions for cardboard, iirc it was BoiseCascade funded
[23:06:34] <joebog> the house was moved here in 3 pieces
[23:06:56] <Chemeleon> parent's house is about 180, nothing particularly interesting about its architecture though, its just an old farm house that got expanded on several times, so its basically a big giant box
[23:07:10] <Chemeleon> floorplan in my house is very unique though, I dont have any rooms with just 4 walls
[23:07:28] <Chemeleon> they all either have a bay window shaped wall on one side, or the zig zag hallway slices off a large corner
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[23:08:23] <joebog> maybe the architecht was a drunk Chemeleon ??
[23:08:29] <Chemeleon> heh
[23:08:34] <joebog> :D
[23:08:44] <Chemeleon> whats weird, is some neighbors claim it was one of those kit houses sears used to sell
[23:08:54] <joebog> BUT square boxes are just that
[23:09:03] <joebog> even ugly in most instances
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[23:09:36] <joebog> made in stone ????
[23:09:52] <joebog> musta been a big horse to deliver that from sears 120 years ago
[23:10:20] <joebog> er 105 sorry
[23:10:46] <Chemeleon> its a very heavy tumbled cinderblock type material
[23:11:02] <Chemeleon> not really stone, but not what people picture for cinderblock either
[23:11:12] <joebog> ok
[23:11:19] <Chemeleon> a single block is probably around 70 pounds or so
[23:11:41] <joebog> ??? thats heavy !!!!
[23:11:47] <Chemeleon> yea :)
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[23:12:00] <Chemeleon> was a real workout when I rebuilt the porch
[23:12:11] <joebog> :D
[23:12:13] <Chemeleon> for whatever reason, mortar on just the porch had given out, rest of the house is fine
[23:12:24] <Chemeleon> but any replacement blocks would have cost a fortune if I could even find them
[23:12:33] <joebog> probably a real hungry mix
[23:12:36] <Chemeleon> so I chipped all the old mortar off, and rebuilt it from the ground up
[23:12:51] <Chemeleon> if I'd known how much work that was going to be, probably wouldnt have bought the house :)
[23:12:55] <joebog> mortar or cement ?
[23:13:01] <Chemeleon> mortar
[23:13:11] <joebog> lime n sand ?
[23:13:28] <Chemeleon> something like that, its whatever the big that says "mortar" at the hardware store is made up of :)
[23:13:41] <joebog> heh heh heh
[23:13:44] <Chemeleon> not sure if they actually put lime in it anymore or not
[23:13:51] <Chemeleon> sounds like the sort of thing the gov would have halted
[23:14:02] <joebog> yup
[23:14:10] <joebog> mortar in australia is a thing of the past unfortunately
[23:14:17] <Chemeleon> whoever last rebuilt the porch did not think things through very well
[23:14:28] <Chemeleon> its a big wraparound porch, about 80' long, so columns all over of course
[23:14:42] <Chemeleon> and most of them were about to start falling down, each one leaning in a different direction, often multiple directions
[23:15:04] <Chemeleon> because there was a 3' tall course of stone, then the floor joists on top of that, then 4' course of more stone sitting on the floor joists, then a 5' wood column on top of that
[23:15:08] <Chemeleon> all just sitting on itself
[23:15:26] <joebog> eeekkk !!!!
[23:15:30] <Chemeleon> when I rebuilt it, I kept the stone all connected, and the wood on top fits down inside the stone so it cant easily shift
[23:15:48] <joebog> you add plenty of ties ?
[23:15:51] <Chemeleon> so now its just stone, then wood, only one joint from ground to top, and that one joint is at least a fair bit stronger than before
[23:15:56] <Chemeleon> yea
[23:15:57] <joebog> either wire of sheet metal ?
[23:16:11] <Chemeleon> while you *could* still knock it down, it should at least stand on its own for a couple more decades :)
[23:16:19] <joebog> ya fit damp course ?
[23:17:07] <Chemeleon> of course, since I built it, I've thought of a few ways it could be even stronger :)
[23:17:19] <Chemeleon> but I wont be tearing things down to make changes
[23:17:20] <joebog> cool :D
[23:19:04] <joebog> not fer payin rent however !!
[23:19:05] <joebog> If I had my own place I would/could do it
[23:19:40] <joebog> even though I lived here longer than anywhere else in my life !!! 25 years
[23:20:03] <joebog> left home @16
[23:20:23] <Chemeleon> not much point to renting around here unless you just need the ability to move without dealing with a house to sell
[23:20:30] <Chemeleon> theres tons of places that're cheaper to buy than it is to rent
[23:20:54] <joebog> probably !!! but in aus a house takes ya a lifetime to pay off
[23:21:02] <Chemeleon> heh
[23:21:24] <Chemeleon> I could have paid mine off about two years ago due to a big payout on a project, but after running the numbers, it just didnt make sense
[23:21:26] <joebog> el chepo brick vaneer house inna city cost ya a mill or close to it
[23:21:27] <andypugh> Mortar (lime mortar) is making a bit of a comeback in the UK.
[23:21:38] <Chemeleon> I'd have had to empty out a 50k bank account, and would have saved less than $500/month
[23:21:40] <joebog> here in the bush the ant eaten old joint STILL be 350k
[23:22:07] <andypugh> My paren't house is made from stones bonded together with clay as it was dug out the ground.
[23:22:08] <Chemeleon> so instead, built a big shop and got my tools out of the living room :)
[23:22:31] <Chemeleon> wish the town had let me go bigger, another 10 feet would be nice
[23:22:33] <joebog> origional pommie building andy
[23:22:38] <joebog> itll last another 3 or 4 hundred years
[23:22:39] <Chemeleon> though no doubt whatever size I built, another 10' would be nice :)
[23:23:15] <andypugh> It's managed 450 years so far :-) http://www.bodgesoc.org/Slaithwaite2/Cottage_end.JPG
[23:23:24] <joebog> always the way chemeleon :)
[23:24:01] <Chemeleon> yup, house or shop, whatever space you have and whatever you start out with, you'll expand/contract until you need about 20% more than you have
[23:24:07] <joebog> looks like wales andy ??
[23:24:18] <Chemeleon> neat old place andy :)
[23:24:48] <andypugh> Yorkshire
[23:25:04] <joebog> 20% ???? yer slow :D I need 100%
[23:25:06] <joebog> ha ha ha ha
[23:25:11] <andypugh> Story here: http://www.bodgesoc.org/slaithwaite.html
[23:25:47] <andypugh> _Old_ web page, back when thumbnails really were.
[23:26:27] <Chemeleon> looks like a pretty massive undertaking
[23:26:53] <joebog> looks beautiful !!!! foot square oak beams !!!!!
[23:27:27] <joebog> it wont fall down andy !!! trust me
[23:27:50] <joebog> BUT I will say the CNC progamming was a bit rough in the adzing of the beams :D
[23:28:28] <andypugh> I am somewhat tempted to make a CNC router to knock out linenfold panelling.
[23:28:47] <joebog> CNC prolly bein that Crazy Noaccount Cornishman :D
[23:29:28] <joebog> australia got no heritage at all
[23:29:34] <andypugh> Nah, everything in the building was done by me and my dad. Including the door hinges.
[23:30:32] <Chemeleon> impressive
[23:31:26] <andypugh> joebog: You need pretty big beams when the roof is made of sandstone slabs. About 60 tons.
[23:33:15] <joebog> :)
[23:33:34] <joebog> wont leak !!!
[23:34:11] <andypugh> Oh, it is well capable of leaking, (though it doesn't) but it won't blow away.
[23:34:48] <joebog> heh heh heh
[23:36:05] <eric_unterhausen> trying to program a delta tau system and it's just a joy
[23:38:49] JT-Shop-2 is now known as JT-Shop
[23:38:58] <JT-Shop> what is that?
[23:39:06] <eric_unterhausen> I installed plex media server on my computer, but my wife couldn't watch the show she wanted
[23:39:17] <eric_unterhausen> so I uninstalled it
[23:39:32] <eric_unterhausen> turned out she was watching soap operas on it, so now I'm reinstalling
[23:39:51] <skunkworks> eric_unterhausen: I have heard that it is even more complicated than linuxcnc...
[23:40:10] <joebog> heh heh heh :D
[23:40:13] <eric_unterhausen> it's a nightmare, and the programs are unreadable
[23:40:15] <skunkworks> ;)
[23:41:05] <eric_unterhausen> I do like the fact that comments are in parens, so square brackets are the new parens
[23:41:35] <joebog> it will probably open the car door when you run it eric :D
[23:42:56] <eric_unterhausen> cnc is not their main business, I suppose
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[23:46:45] <joebog> Im out, thanks again all
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