#linuxcnc | Logs for 2013-09-01

[00:01:23] <andypugh> I may take a punt on it, as it will fit my toolpost-boring blocks if it is MT1
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[00:01:50] <andypugh> I have a feeling it is a spring and roller design.
[00:03:00] <Tom_itx> do they grip very well?
[00:03:13] <andypugh> I have no idea :-)
[00:03:31] <andypugh> And I may be wrong too,
[00:04:06] <Tom_itx> i've got a ratchet like that and i don't care for it
[00:05:25] <andypugh> They work a treat on motorcycle starters, and are used as a spanner on some milling chucks (you can use a perfectly smooth outer ring and avoid throwing the coolant as far)
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[00:14:38] <TekniQue> not just motorcycle starters
[00:14:44] <TekniQue> automatic transmissions have them too
[00:15:21] <TekniQue> so they're quite tough
[00:15:40] <TekniQue> as long as you don't put enough high pressure additives into the oil to prevent them from gripping
[00:17:32] <Aero-Tec> has anyone worked out the extra depth needed for the drill hole to be deep enough for a given drill bit?
[00:17:55] <Aero-Tec> depth of the to size hole and not just the depth of point
[00:18:13] <andypugh> It depends on the drill point angle.
[00:18:32] <Aero-Tec> standard 120 deg point
[00:18:44] <andypugh> I though 112 was standard?
[00:19:38] <andypugh> Ah, no, 118
[00:19:47] <Tom_itx> andypugh, what is the Lord High Admiral's Divisions?
[00:20:12] <Tom_itx> figured you may know
[00:20:28] <andypugh> No idea I am afraid.
[00:20:30] <Aero-Tec> anyway for a 120 deg drill bit it is dia X 0.28888
[00:21:14] <Aero-Tec> or for total depth dia * 1.28888
[00:21:33] <Tom_itx> ahh.. part of the royal navy
[00:22:05] <andypugh> Yeah, seemed too obvious.
[00:22:37] <andypugh> Aero-Tec: It's a bit of trigonometry, and not a difficult bit.
[00:23:21] <Aero-Tec> true
[00:23:28] <andypugh> half the tan of half the angle times the diameter, I think?
[00:23:56] <andypugh> No, wait, too many halves there :-)
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[00:24:28] <andypugh> And I just changed my mind back again :-)
[00:24:37] <andypugh> I was right first time.
[00:25:09] <Aero-Tec> I cheated
[00:25:19] <andypugh> I am not sure where you get 1.288 from.
[00:25:24] <Aero-Tec> drew it up in solid works and worked it out from there
[00:25:50] <Tom_itx> Aero-Tec, my cad cam figures that out for me
[00:25:55] <Aero-Tec> total depth to drill
[00:26:14] <andypugh> Seriously? I must be old, I would have gone to paper and pencil first, except that I can do a single triangle in my head.
[00:26:18] <Aero-Tec> I do mostly hand coding
[00:26:49] <Tom_itx> it's all part of adding a drill to my cad andypugh
[00:26:59] <Tom_itx> it asks you which you want
[00:27:47] <andypugh> I admit, I have never even bothered. If I really care I note the point where the lips are fully cutting on the DRO.
[00:28:02] <Aero-Tec> cam is nice for a part that is always the same
[00:28:14] <andypugh> Because there is no guarantee that any of my drills are anywhere near the notional angle.
[00:28:19] <Tom_itx> heh
[00:28:30] <Aero-Tec> I have parts where every things the same other then the dis of thread
[00:28:38] <Tom_itx> you set the drill angle up in the tool table of the cad
[00:28:38] <Aero-Tec> dia
[00:30:04] <Aero-Tec> so instead of having a ton of part files, I make it where I edit a few variables and it comes out right
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[00:31:22] <Aero-Tec> I have it down to one file does all parts and variations of parts
[00:31:49] <Aero-Tec> some have called it Gcode abuse
[00:31:51] <Tom_itx> weren't you the one working on that subroutine full of vars?
[00:31:59] <Aero-Tec> lol
[00:32:00] <Aero-Tec> yes
[00:32:02] <Tom_itx> haha
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[00:33:04] <Aero-Tec> I can make a full range of things with just a little editing, no code changes
[00:33:34] <Aero-Tec> and I have it setup to where I can assign each version a number
[00:33:38] <Tom_itx> just so you can remember what all the vars do
[00:33:49] <Aero-Tec> so lots of things are make with just one edit
[00:34:16] <Aero-Tec> change one number and you have a whole new part
[00:34:40] <Aero-Tec> they are documented as to what they do
[00:35:18] <Aero-Tec> works for me
[00:36:04] <Aero-Tec> that way when I do a tweak or a change I do not have to go through 50 plus files and edit them all
[00:36:34] <Aero-Tec> as I am usually in a hurry and do just the one I need
[00:37:24] <Aero-Tec> then I have to recheck all the time to see if new update was done to said file, if I remember to even look
[00:38:27] <Aero-Tec> I end up with way to many sub version of files that I have no idea what have need updated with what
[00:40:17] <andypugh> The Albrechr Überchuck looks pretty cool: http://www.albrechtchucks.com/downloads/Albrecht_Catalog.pdf
[00:41:22] <andypugh> A hex key drives a worm drive that draws on a morse-angle collet. I can believe them when they say it grips well.
[00:41:59] <andypugh> There is a 4-stage mechanical advantage there.
[00:49:20] <Aero-Tec> looks cool
[00:49:55] <Aero-Tec> wonder if the hype they say is true
[00:50:08] <Aero-Tec> some things look a tad over stated
[00:50:58] <Aero-Tec> there rigidity and dampening chart, several time better then the other options
[00:51:25] <Aero-Tec> not sure who they come up with that one
[00:52:24] <Aero-Tec> it true it would allow for much higher material removal
[00:52:47] <Aero-Tec> price is sure up there
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[00:59:08] <andypugh> I don't know what tooling normally costs, I got 25 holders for £75 and I am resisting buying any more. :-)
[00:59:49] <andypugh> Though I would buy a super-short drill chuck if I saw one.
[01:00:26] <andypugh> (or one of those ER collet chucks where the collet is inside the machine taper).
[01:00:33] <andypugh> I may enf up making my own.
[01:00:44] <Tom_itx> there ya go
[01:04:06] <andypugh> Here we are, they call them Zero-Z for obvious reasons: http://mfgnewsweb.com/archives/eastec_shows/may06/rego.htm
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[01:35:06] <Aero-Tec> I cheat
[01:35:42] <Aero-Tec> I use a collet
[01:37:05] <Aero-Tec> R8 for my unit, but morris taper ones are available as well
[01:37:40] <Aero-Tec> andypugh, what is your spindle?
[01:39:10] <andypugh> Well, it came from Harrison as 30 INT, but I made it BT30 with a pneumatic drawbar, then got a lot of SK30 toolholders so now it is a BT30 / SK30 hybrid (takes both with the right pull-studs)
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[01:51:10] <CaptHindsight> WalterN: what's up?
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[02:56:28] <WalterN> CaptHindsight: I was wondering what defines the value of a small machine shop
[02:57:14] <WalterN> heh
[02:57:28] <WalterN> I mean like... I'm looking at buying this machine shop I used to work at
[02:59:24] <CaptHindsight> buy low, sell high, unless it's just for fun
[03:00:13] <WalterN> lol
[03:00:18] <WalterN> define low
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[03:01:06] <CaptHindsight> what are you planning on doing with the machine shop?
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[03:03:22] <WalterN> starting off, continuing with the way its been going... its a small job shop with one or two guys working there at any given time
[03:03:37] <CaptHindsight> there's no quick answer to your question
[03:05:03] <WalterN> when/if things start to get cozy, I want to use it as a platform to design, make, and sell robotics... like the rapid prototyping stuff we've talked about
[03:07:46] <WalterN> but thats for later... one of the first things that needs to happen is a database needs to be set up for all the prints, programs, and related things
[03:11:09] <andypugh> No, the first thing to happen is for you to work out who your customers are and where the money comes from.
[03:12:22] <andypugh> Then think some more about the money. Then some more. Having great internal processes is useless unless you are making stuff for people in exchange for money,
[03:13:16] <andypugh> I state this in a hectoring tone as someone who has never actually run any sort of business. So I may be entirely wrong.
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[03:35:58] <Tom_itx> it takes time to grow a business
[03:36:12] <Tom_itx> needs lots of water and sunshine
[03:38:22] <andypugh> I have seen it from the other side, where I was employed by the new owners of a successful small business that had been around for about 30 years. The original founders had got old and wanted to retire, and had made enough to make that a very comforatble option.
[03:40:45] <andypugh> The new owners thought that the business was the products and the employees. They were wrong. The business was all the people that the original owners knew in the local engineering companies (predominantly Ford and BAE)
[03:43:44] <andypugh> Their niche was actually being far smaller than the big boys. One office contained the three mechanical engineers, the 2 electronic engineers and the 3 software guys, on adjacent tables. We could decide what components we needed, ask the electrical/computer guys if the interface was OK, place an order and have it the next day. To pass to the wiremen and machine shop in the next room
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[03:45:48] <andypugh> Working inside Ford as I do now, it would take a month of meetings to decide a spec, then a software-change process, then we would place an order, through a technically cheaper intermediary and get the exact same RS part 3 months after deciding that it would do the job.
[03:47:31] <andypugh> Huge companies are useless at one-off test rigs. Mechtric were near-perfect. But the little company needs to be constantly reminding hundreds of people in the big company that they exist.
[03:48:46] <andypugh> Mechtric went bankrupt under the new owners, that is why I now work at Ford.
[03:49:18] <Aero-Tec> andypugh, you got pix of your machine?
[03:50:02] <andypugh> Which machine?
[03:50:24] <Aero-Tec> guess the collet idea is out, should have known better then to even suggest it
[03:50:28] <Aero-Tec> the mill
[03:50:34] <andypugh> http://www.youtube.com/user/blyndpew/videos
[03:50:41] <Aero-Tec> how many do you have?
[03:51:02] <andypugh> (Harrison Demo, or More Hobbing, or Pulley)
[03:51:49] <andypugh> I have a lathe/mill a Harrison Universal miller and a Rivett 608.
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[03:54:27] <Tom_itx> andypugh, any desire to go it on your own in a business?
[03:54:53] <andypugh> Absolutely not.
[03:54:59] <Tom_itx> (it's not for everyone)
[03:55:39] <andypugh> I was technically a limited company for a while. Working as a contractor to Ford.
[03:55:58] <andypugh> I didn't like it.
[03:56:12] <Tom_itx> trial employee period?
[03:56:23] <andypugh> Do you have "Dragon's Den" in the US?
[03:56:44] <Tom_itx> not that i'm aware of
[03:57:35] <Tom_itx> maybe so, but i've never seen it
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[03:58:16] <andypugh> OK, it's a TV programme where would-be businessmen pitch their ideas to very rich and succesful business folk, they typically want to sell a 20% share in the business for some amount of cash.
[03:58:26] <Tom_itx> http://www.cbc.ca/dragonsden/index.html
[03:58:47] <Tom_itx> never seen it
[03:59:21] <andypugh> I would be the one who came on and said "I have this cool idea, I want to sell 100% of the business right now and move on to the next fun idea"
[03:59:31] <Tom_itx> heh
[04:00:35] <Tom_itx> that's the problem with business.. having a cool idea doesn't always fly
[04:01:13] <andypugh> But a business needs a cool idea.
[04:01:46] <andypugh> even if that is "You bring grain, we make it into flour for you"
[04:04:05] <Tom_itx> you need to do it 'er' than anyone else... cheap er, fast er, bett er
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[04:06:24] <Tom_itx> you bring me grain we make it into flour, oil and livestock feed for you
[04:08:30] <Tom_itx> but having and keeping good contacts will make or break a company
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[04:18:13] <andypugh> For unrelated reasons I just "stalked" Harrison, who made my miller.
[04:18:17] <andypugh> http://goo.gl/maps/ag2cS
[04:18:59] <andypugh> Still a pretty big factory, even when we tend to think that the UK doesn't make anything any more.
[04:20:23] <andypugh> (And it straddles the river Spen, which is quite amusing)
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[04:25:10] <andypugh> Tom_itx: Rivett has a strange "er". I think they traded on "best" to people who didn't know that it didn't matter. (Like government procurement). My 608 cost $1600 in 1936. That was £500 when a Myford ML4 was £7.
[04:26:48] <andypugh> They made 363 lathes between 1922 and 1936. And kept building bigger factories.
[04:27:24] <andypugh> It's the most peculiar business model I have seen.
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[04:42:12] <andypugh> Good grief! Is that the time?
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[04:59:55] <NickParker> andypugh: you have a lathe from 1936? and I thought my shiz was an antique..
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[05:17:05] <NickParker> also, your youtube channel is fantastic
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[06:41:15] <DJ9DJ> moin
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[06:46:46] <Loetmichel> mornin'
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[14:23:21] <awallin> not much going on eh...
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[14:47:43] <pcw_home> Last summer holiday in US...
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[15:20:31] <Jymmm> pcw_home: and we're here on irc
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[15:26:21] <pcw_home> Yeah, I think our excitement for the day is taking Charlie to the dog park
[15:26:56] <jthornton> I'm going to celebrate by taking a nap while it rains
[15:27:06] <Tom_itx> heh
[15:31:17] * jthornton finally cracked the liststore, treestore, cellrenderer secret
[15:32:13] <Jymmm> ?
[15:33:47] <Jymmm> http://www.amazon.com/71-01-200-SBA-Leverage/dp/B001H1HJQO/ref=pd_sim_sbs_hi_2
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[15:57:03] <pcw_home> That looks pretty nice, may get on for 12 ga fence wire cutting
[15:58:08] <skunkworks> we went grocery shopping...
[15:58:58] <Jymmm> WE did?
[15:59:05] <Jymmm> pcw_home: http://www.harborfreight.com/36-inch-bolt-cutters-41150.html
[15:59:26] <Jymmm> pcw_home: add the 20% coupon and can get for under $20 including tax
[16:00:36] <pcw_home> Dont actually need a bolt cutter but those little high leverage cutter wouls save my hands when cutting fence wire
[16:00:57] -!- mhaberler [mhaberler!~mhaberler@macbook.stiwoll.mah.priv.at] has joined #linuxcnc
[16:01:09] <pcw_home> (and they will fit in a pocket)
[16:01:41] <skunkworks> (whole fan-damilly
[16:01:43] <skunkworks> )
[16:04:47] <jthornton> these should work great for 12 gauge fence wire http://www.harborfreight.com/8-inch-bolt-cutters-41146.html
[16:05:44] <jthornton> Knipex are some good ones
[16:06:53] <pcw_home> The HF ones may be good enough for the amount I do and a lot cheaper
[16:07:10] <jthornton> yep, just depends on the application
[16:07:46] <pcw_home> The Knipex ones are pretty cute ( only ~6" long)
[16:09:14] <CaptHindsight> didn't notice until now that newegg sells tools http://www.newegg.com/Bolt-Cutters/SubCategory/ID-1851?Tid=11259
[16:09:36] <spack> thinking about going to check out this machine: https://grandrapids.craigslist.org/tls/3985302183.html not sure why he has a replacement drive motor or "two replacement boards" that may or may not work...
[16:11:39] <CaptHindsight> are you even going to use that controller anyway?
[16:11:46] <spack> no
[16:12:13] <spack> except as an interim measure if it happened to be easily fixable
[16:14:54] <spack> then again there is also this
[16:14:56] <spack> https://grandrapids.craigslist.org/tld/3981610957.html
[16:15:02] <spack> pre-stripped
[16:15:31] <pcw_home> Hand driven rotary table?
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[16:15:52] <spack> yeah
[16:16:12] <spack> seems like it
[16:17:10] <kwallace2> The BPII looks like it has brushed DC motors, so should be easy to convert. I don't know about the encoders.
[16:17:33] <kwallace2> The Hurco would need a lot more work.
[16:21:12] <spack> i can't just bolt some new motors onto it?
[16:24:43] <kwallace2> Maybe, but you need to spend time figuring out which motors might work, where to find them, look for the best price, what drivers to use, design mounts, and on and on.
[16:24:59] <pcw_home> yeah, motors and drives and couplers and drive mounts, who knows whats missing?
[16:26:17] <pcw_home> seems a little odd to strip these as well
[16:26:47] <kwallace2> With the BPII, you find out what signal the motor drivers and encoders need, buy a signal generator, wire it up, program HAL, and enjoy.
[16:27:15] <CaptHindsight> you're saying that the ad might be misleading or not the whole truth?!
[16:28:34] <kwallace2> My guess is that the Hurco motors and such were removed to sell on eBay or to fix another machine.
[16:29:26] <Tom_itx> i think one of our tree mills had a dynapath control. we didn't like it
[16:29:44] <CaptHindsight> they are also too lazy or disingenuous to post pics as well
[16:30:12] <spack> i emailed for pics
[16:30:22] <spack> we'll see
[16:30:27] <spack> or not
[16:30:28] <spack> heh
[16:30:52] <Tom_itx> you're gonna convert it anyway
[16:31:10] <CaptHindsight> yeah, maybe they figure for $500 it's about what they would get for scrap, so you can as well if you decide to buy it
[16:31:48] <CaptHindsight> since your time is worth nothing
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[16:34:27] <CaptHindsight> http://chicago.craigslist.org/nwc/tls/4018047862.html looks like a bridgeport
[16:34:33] <kwallace2> My guess is the Hurco has CAT40 which I'd prefer over the BPII Kwik-Switch.
[16:35:08] <spack> i'm just casually looking at this point
[16:35:16] <pcw_home> Must be that the cable company views installers as expendable:
[16:35:18] <pcw_home> Guy come here, sees cable box on pole is ~30 feet up, puts
[16:35:19] <pcw_home> few cones in the street and a wobbly ladder leaning on pole barely
[16:35:20] <pcw_home> reaching box. Kathy goes out and says no way, go get the bucket!
[16:35:35] <spack> haha
[16:36:14] <Tom_itx> heck, he's there already why disturb him?
[16:36:50] <CaptHindsight> they tend to be out of state or work for small sub-contractors, the util co's have figures out how to avoid insurance and overtime pay
[16:37:13] <kwallace2> That sounds like when I was installing for DirecTV. I worked long days and made effectively $5/hr.
[16:37:18] <Tom_itx> to the lowest bidder as well
[16:37:47] <Tom_itx> good you wised up
[16:38:08] <CaptHindsight> http://milwaukee.craigslist.org/tld/4026580991.html GORTON 0-16A $1500
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[16:38:57] <jy76> hello fellas
[16:40:08] <spack> here's one with terrible photos for $950
[16:40:11] <spack> https://rockford.craigslist.org/tls/4008469446.html
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[16:40:55] <kwallace2> IMHO, the BP1 and Gorton would have to stay as manual machines - no ball screws.
[16:40:59] <CaptHindsight> I think those were taken when that mill was installed new :)
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[16:41:41] <spack> yeah, i definitely am not looking at manual machines right now
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[16:41:51] <spack> unless a great deal comes up for one that i will keep manual
[16:42:04] <spack> would not mind having more machines
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[16:43:31] <jy76> does anyone know or can link to the docs for updating just lcnc? i am at version 2.5.1 and would like to update to 2.5.3 and i cannot find a page that explains this . is this an apt get ? i did not see any linuxcnc files in the update manager thanx
[16:46:38] <kwallace2> http://www.ebay.com/sch/Manufacturing-Metalworking-/11804/i.html?_from=R40&_nkw=shizuoka&_udlo&_udhi=4000
[16:47:09] <spack> too bad those are all 2000 miles away
[16:47:38] <kwallace2> Updating - http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?UpdatingTo2.5
[16:47:42] <spack> wonder how much shipping would be
[16:48:32] <CaptHindsight> spack: are you in Mi?
[16:48:37] <spack> chi
[16:48:47] <CaptHindsight> oh thats right
[16:49:19] <CaptHindsight> how much space and power do you have?
[16:49:25] <kwallace2> I got my Shiz with tooling for just under $2k and moved it myself. http://www.wallacecompany.com/machine_shop/Shizuoka/
[16:49:49] <pcw_home> Are those servos or giant old stepmotors on the Shizuoka?
[16:50:04] <kwallace2> Steppers.
[16:50:29] <spack> got about all of a 2 car garage with 60A 220 sp
[16:50:47] <kwallace2> Unipolar, 45V
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[16:51:17] <pcw_home> Wired unipolar at the motor?
[16:51:23] <spack> that thing looks new
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[16:52:38] <kwallace2> http://www.wallacecompany.com/machine_shop/Shizuoka/Bandit_Stepper_Driver.png with 6 wires from the motor.
[16:52:38] <pcw_home> Nice no bozo's sticker
[16:52:41] <IchGuckLive> hi all B)
[16:54:31] <kwallace2> I got lucky, the Shiz cleaned up pretty well.
[17:01:35] <CaptHindsight> spack: I'd say about once a month I come across a real deal on a VMC within 250 miles
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[17:03:53] <CaptHindsight> april and may tend to be the best time around here
[17:05:09] <IchGuckLive> may is the brst for broken mills
[17:05:17] <IchGuckLive> best
[17:05:19] <spack> heh
[17:05:20] <spack> why's that?
[17:06:06] <IchGuckLive> moisture burns the ic if not warmup
[17:06:45] <spack> ah
[17:06:46] <IchGuckLive> august unkucky lost 2 vf-2 haas on electronics
[17:06:58] <IchGuckLive> l B)
[17:07:08] <IchGuckLive> ;-(
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[17:07:37] <spack> well lemme know if you see anything CaptHindsight
[17:07:57] <CaptHindsight> no problem
[17:08:01] <spack> i bought a bostomatics 315 but the seller was in the hospital or something
[17:08:02] <IchGuckLive> spack: are you in the usa ?
[17:08:21] _BJFreeman is now known as BJfreeman
[17:08:23] <spack> IchGuckLive: yeah
[17:08:29] <IchGuckLive> im in germany
[17:08:43] <spack> cool
[17:08:54] <IchGuckLive> burningman did burn last night
[17:08:55] <CaptHindsight> http://centralmich.craigslist.org/tls/3916956841.html
[17:09:10] <IchGuckLive> and the temple this night as a big burn
[17:09:32] <spack> just like every year IchGuckLive ;)
[17:09:58] <IchGuckLive> yeah 68.000 freaks out there in the desert with the duststorm
[17:10:12] <spack> why aren't you there?
[17:10:27] <IchGuckLive> noney is always a issue
[17:10:31] <IchGuckLive> m
[17:10:44] <IchGuckLive> what a duststorm im watching live
[17:10:48] <spack> heh
[17:10:55] <spack> feels nice
[17:11:03] <spack> like being in a soft sandblaster
[17:11:07] <IchGuckLive> 300+ dollars for entry
[17:11:11] <spack> soft but still abrasive
[17:11:26] <IchGuckLive> http://www.ustream.tv/burningman
[17:11:56] <CaptHindsight> http://centralmich.craigslist.org/tls/3993096971.html just bolt it to your table http://images.craigslist.org/00p0p_UsGKmmYuj3_600x450.jpg :)
[17:12:02] <spack> you can see more than 3 feet, that's not a dust storm :)
[17:12:28] <IchGuckLive> agree but temple burn is 3mil from cam
[17:12:43] <IchGuckLive> night will came the storm we hope
[17:12:53] <spack> usually yeah
[17:12:58] <spack> if it's windy they wait
[17:13:05] <IchGuckLive> no
[17:13:11] <IchGuckLive> 9pm fix
[17:13:18] <spack> they've delayed it before
[17:13:31] <IchGuckLive> no storm retches the cam
[17:13:38] <IchGuckLive> now
[17:13:54] <IchGuckLive> coyote disapeard 500feet
[17:14:07] <spack> still have a long time til 9pm anyway
[17:14:19] <spack> those storms usually roll in and out pretty quickly
[17:14:26] <IchGuckLive> agree
[17:15:22] <spack> one time there was a huge dust storm on a wednesday
[17:15:26] <spack> and when the dust cleared, half the people around were gone
[17:15:34] <spack> their cars and them gone
[17:15:43] <spack> a lot of their stuff and their tents still there
[17:15:45] <spack> but flattened
[17:15:49] <spack> they just couldn't handle it :p
[17:16:01] <spack> no idea how they drove out of there in that weather
[17:16:07] <IchGuckLive> exodus is on the way as most want to be home tomorrow
[17:16:36] <spack> we found lots of booze left behind after that
[17:16:37] <IchGuckLive> not a good idee on this condissons to move out to clear desert
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[17:17:11] <IchGuckLive> ah topless in the duststorm thats a pretty wear thing
[17:17:50] <spack> best way to get clean out there
[17:18:20] <IchGuckLive> its clearing
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[17:18:51] <IchGuckLive> the man burn place is now showing up
[17:19:04] <CaptHindsight> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ASz3LW1i6wc#t=13 Time-Lapse View of Yosemite Rim Fire
[17:19:05] <Tecan> (ASz3LW1i6wc) "Surreal Time-Lapse View of Yosemite Rim Fire" by "Andrew Revkin" is "News" - Length: 0:02:47
[17:19:33] <IchGuckLive> yes wildfirers are bad this year also in europ
[17:19:47] <IchGuckLive> second dustwave moving in
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[17:54:19] <kwallace2> The Rim Fire stopped here, I live in the blue circle. http://www.wallacecompany.com/Screenshot-5.png
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[17:57:22] <CaptHindsight> you must be relieved
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[17:58:50] <kwallace2> The power was shut off for four days so the fire fighters would not get fried with electrons. Here is an unfinished project, http://www.wallacecompany.com/machine_shop/Witte/dcp_6810-1a.jpg
[17:59:58] <Loetmichel> kwallace2: no scale on the pic
[18:00:03] <Loetmichel> but i suppose it was near?
[18:00:35] <CaptHindsight> judging by the airport I'd say he's ~1km from the edge of the fire
[18:01:13] <Loetmichel> CaptHindsight: ... time to get the BIG pumps running to pretect the home ;-)
[18:01:20] <Loetmichel> -e+o
[18:01:29] <kwallace2> Yep, 1 km.
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[18:02:27] <Loetmichel> kwallace2: is there ground water whre you live?
[18:02:35] <Loetmichel> so the pumps could have worked?
[18:03:47] <kwallace2> We have a hydrant in the street and a pool in the backyard. A pump is also on my to-do list.
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[18:05:00] <kwallace2> It was strange to be taking pictures of the house and everything in it for insurance claims, and thinking this could all be gone in a few hours.
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[18:08:19] <archivist> methinks worse than strange
[18:09:24] <CaptHindsight> at least you have the photos now, it's worse to not have them after a fire, flood or theft etc
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[18:10:42] <ReadError> quick photoshop some stuff you want in the pics ;)
[18:10:52] <ReadError> i hope it doesnt happen though, stay safe
[18:12:23] <CaptHindsight> 12 diamond encrusted tiaras, check....
[18:12:31] <kwallace2> The fire was stopped here a few days ago and has gone on to someone else's town. http://www.inciweb.org/incident/3660/
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[18:13:17] <CaptHindsight> did the wind change direction?
[18:14:34] <kwallace2> No, the crews, dozers and bombers fought it off.
[18:15:13] <kwallace2> Here are yesterdays hot spots: http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/fires/main/usa/index.html#lowerAccordion-set1-slide2
[18:18:14] <kwallace2> Oops, http://www.nasa.gov/sites/default/files/styles/800x600_autoletterbox/public/20130831-california.jpg?itok=lk2OAZSU
[18:21:53] <kwallace2> This is from my next door neighbor. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hecJXLdMQ1I
[18:21:54] <Tecan> (hecJXLdMQ1I) "CA Rim Fire 2013" by "Rex Pemberton" is "Sports" - Length: 0:06:52
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[18:24:43] <tjtr33> CaptHindsight, http://www.ebay.com/itm/Newbould-motorized-spin-indexer-milling-edm-grinding-spindle-fixture-/171043472268?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item27d2fc438c
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[18:31:46] <CaptHindsight> heh, only accurate to 0.00027 deg :)
[18:35:27] <tjtr33> might be able to loball it, i think its been there a while
[18:36:11] <CaptHindsight> http://www.imperialnewbould.com/the-newbould-servo-indexer.html I wonder what the price is for this?
[18:38:09] <CaptHindsight> I just built one a bit larger. I needed 18" dia. clearance and indexing to 1 arc second
[18:39:43] <CaptHindsight> http://www.imperialnewbould.com/the-newbould-flatspin.html
[18:41:39] <tjtr33> mechanical position or servo?
[18:41:53] <tjtr33> ^^ what you built
[18:43:05] <CaptHindsight> servo
[18:44:12] <CaptHindsight> combination of reworked newport and anorad parts
[18:44:59] <CaptHindsight> bbl
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[18:59:58] <Aero-Tec> if I wanted to find out the current work offset for the loaded tool what would be the best way to get that info?
[19:01:30] <Aero-Tec> I am looking for the Z value, would 5223 do the trick or am I way out to lunch
[19:04:28] <spack> i gunno :o
[19:04:55] <spack> do these old controls take a special type of crt?
[19:04:56] <spack> https://chicago.craigslist.org/wcl/hvo/4033007940.html
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[19:08:03] <Jymmm> http://www.cnczone.com/forums/tree/55824-tree_journeyman_320_good_bad.html
[19:08:25] <spack> yeah, read that thread
[19:09:05] <kwallace2> Sort of special, but any video input display might work, but I have not tried.
[19:09:42] <spack> people try to sell the originals on ebay for $700
[19:09:45] <spack> lol
[19:09:59] <spack> crts in general are pretty expensive though now
[19:10:08] <spack> legacy crap
[19:10:20] <spack> i wish this was closer:
[19:10:21] <spack> http://www.ebay.com/itm/VERY-NICE-HURCO-10-X-38-CNC-VERTICAL-MILL-MILLING-MACHINE-MODEL-KMB-I/350863056648?_trksid=p2047675.m1850&_trkparms=aid=222002&algo=SIC.FIT&ao=1&asc=11&meid=985939465183294385&pid=100011&prg=1005&rk=4&rkt=5&sd=400216615130&
[19:10:25] <Aero-Tec> looks like 5403 would be better, anyone ever tried this before?
[19:11:20] <kwallace2> http://www.ebay.com/itm/A359-JVC-COLOR-VIDEO-MONITOR-TM-A9U-/350864215942?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item51b1230f86
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[19:11:42] <Aero-Tec> not all monitors are the same
[19:12:03] <Aero-Tec> and CRTs have to be matched
[19:12:25] <Aero-Tec> I used to own a electronics repair shop
[19:12:36] <kwallace2> You just need an analog video input, theoretically.
[19:13:00] <Aero-Tec> there are cross references for replacement CRT
[19:13:03] <spack> could be a weird refresh rate
[19:13:12] <spack> sync rate?
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[19:13:49] <Aero-Tec> there are different analog video signals
[19:14:38] <Aero-Tec> - or +, signal levels, and other things like sync rates
[19:15:39] <Aero-Tec> one would need a adjustable adapter and even that does not grantee it will work
[19:16:06] <kwallace2> The monitor I linked above has controls for some signal options. It might be worth a try.
[19:16:09] <Aero-Tec> you used to be able to buy them
[19:16:41] <spack> wouldn't be hard to run the signal into an ADC
[19:16:50] <spack> and display it however you wanted
[19:17:12] <kwallace2> There are LCD versions of these monitors, such as baby and backup monitors.
[19:17:28] <Aero-Tec> some of the newer generic replacement ones had the adapter built in
[19:18:14] <spack> well
[19:18:15] <Aero-Tec> is it color or monochrome?
[19:18:24] <spack> i'm guessing mono
[19:19:03] <Aero-Tec> if your willing to play and know electronics and have a scope
[19:19:14] <Aero-Tec> you should be able to get one to work
[19:19:29] <spack> unfortunately i don't have a scope
[19:19:32] <spack> :(
[19:19:53] <spack> it's been on my list of things to grab when i find a good deal on one for a long time
[19:20:23] <spack> i wonder if the guy would take like half what he's asking for it
[19:20:34] <spack> free up that cash to re-wire the whole thing
[19:20:51] <Aero-Tec> would be easier to use a new complete monitor, but getting it yo work in or with the console could be trick
[19:21:28] <Aero-Tec> is he not close to scrap value as it is?
[19:21:39] <Aero-Tec> not sure how big it is
[19:21:49] <spack> probably 5000lbs
[19:21:52] <spack> 4-5
[19:21:57] <Aero-Tec> but scrap can add up fast
[19:22:44] <Aero-Tec> would have to look up scrap price for steel and cast iron
[19:23:28] <Aero-Tec> you could low ball him and see if he comes down to 2K
[19:24:11] _Getty is now known as Getty
[19:24:57] <Aero-Tec> he most likely wants it gone and gone fast, wants the room
[19:25:48] <kwallace2> My Shizuoka is 3000 lbs or 3500 with tool changer. The Hurco should be close to that. If the axes were in good shape, I would not pay more than $2k, after trying $1k.
[19:26:04] <spack> talking about the tree here
[19:26:17] <spack> https://chicago.craigslist.org/wcl/hvo/4033007940.html
[19:26:31] <Aero-Tec> tell him $1500 and you will have a group of guys there to move it in 3 days, if he has a fork lift and will load it onto your truck tell him you will be there tomorrow to pick it up
[19:27:57] <ReadError> he cant be trusted
[19:27:59] <Aero-Tec> any more info on using 5403?
[19:28:01] <ReadError> he didnt even rotate the pic ;/
[19:28:04] <spack> heh
[19:28:26] <Aero-Tec> what do you get for info?
[19:28:40] <spack> maybe his neck is bent at a 90 degree angle all the time
[19:28:53] <Aero-Tec> do you get tool offset or some other offset?
[19:30:43] <Aero-Tec> it says tool offset but not sure if it is the tool table info or some other one for the active tool
[19:31:12] <spack> this guy retrofit a tree 320 and made a spreadsheet of all his costs...
[19:31:21] <spack> he paid $1250 for the mill plus $700 shipping
[19:31:25] <spack> https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/pub?key=0AiHjkx3E9wMSdFZiRVBNU0R4RGl1THhJSFBmMHROZkE&single=true&gid=0&output=html
[19:31:30] <spack> useful info
[19:32:26] <Aero-Tec> 5422 for Z looks cool
[19:32:49] <Aero-Tec> wish I knew what the difference is for them all
[19:34:11] <spack> looks like about $1500 for wiring and electronics
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[19:54:47] <spack> seller turned down my offer of $4k for this one
[19:54:49] <spack> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Hurco-MD1-vertical-machining-center-/171066021430?pt=US_Heavy_Equipment&hash=item27d4545636
[20:04:39] <kwallace2> Just my 2c. It is nice that it is a bed mill, has a tool changer and is operational, but $4k (with free loading) is a good offer. He may still take the offer when he runs out of time. Show the owner you are ready to pay cash, ready to move it at a moment's notice and without any drama.
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[20:07:04] <JT-Shop> . The machine is very reliable with the exception of a temperamental tool changer.
[20:07:42] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: you mean the manual one, as in YOU ?
[20:07:44] <JT-Shop> I hate when someone asks what is your bottom dollar
[20:07:57] <JT-Shop> the one spack is looking at
[20:08:06] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: Oh, when they do, I ADD $100
[20:08:09] <JT-Shop> I just respond what is your top dollar
[20:08:17] <spack> heh
[20:08:31] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: i like it
[20:08:40] <Tom_itx> it's merika, it's what we do
[20:09:26] <Tom_itx> ever watch 'barter kings'?
[20:09:28] <JT-Shop> I think the price is too high for an open machine like that
[20:09:36] <JT-Shop> no
[20:09:44] <Tom_itx> A&E
[20:09:48] <spack> looks like it's been listed since before july 3rd
[20:09:50] <Tom_itx> you should, it's intertaining
[20:09:55] <spack> he must not be eager to get rid of it
[20:10:12] <spack> i made my offer 2 weeks ago
[20:10:24] <JT-Shop> he has had 7 offers and declined them
[20:10:42] <spack> 2 of those were mine, i offered 3500 first :)
[20:11:03] <JT-Shop> the latest two?
[20:11:10] <Jymmm> If you offer at a good price, they'll always try to talk you down. So you have to up the price to begin with
[20:11:32] <spack> the latest two, yeah
[20:11:37] <Jymmm> and nobody honors "price is firm"
[20:11:51] <spack> he's selling it as OBO
[20:12:03] <Jymmm> that's another story
[20:12:17] <JT-Shop> I'd offer $4500 if he would load it on my trailer
[20:12:34] <Tom_itx> so how long's he waiting for OBO?
[20:12:36] <spack> says loading is $600 extra
[20:12:40] <Tom_itx> 3 yrs?
[20:13:02] <Jymmm> spack: 3900 + loading
[20:13:44] <spack> can it really be 120 inches tall?
[20:14:01] <Tom_itx> my bud had one moved for $500 but it was on the return trip from delivering a new one
[20:14:23] <Tom_itx> spack, it could be
[20:15:07] <Tom_itx> is that with Z all the way up?
[20:15:23] * JT-Shop needs to quit looking on flea bay
[20:16:11] <spack> "max operating height"
[20:16:46] <Tom_itx> that's not so tall as machines go
[20:16:58] <kwallace2> It looks like the axes use roller slides?
[20:17:48] <spack> i only have about 100 inches unless i remove some of the rafters
[20:18:02] <spack> which is do-able
[20:18:34] <spack> it's just that similar sized machines i've been looking at have been in the mid 90-s"
[20:18:59] <spack> that doesn't look 2 feet taller
[20:19:57] <pcw_home> http://www.ebay.com/itm/TREE-model-VMC1260E-CNC-vertical-machining-center-/331008145622?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4d119f78d6
[20:19:58] <pcw_home> Too big?
[20:20:44] <spack> how tall is it? :)
[20:20:48] <Tom_itx> ha, i've seen a few of those
[20:21:39] <spack> laterally, i have lots of space
[20:21:45] <spack> height-wise i'm cramped
[20:22:10] <Tom_itx> garage?
[20:22:15] <Tom_itx> it won't fit height wise
[20:22:16] <spack> yep
[20:22:40] <Tom_itx> we barely got a small fadal in a garage
[20:23:04] <spack> was it getting it in that was the problem?
[20:23:26] <Tom_itx> we had to lay the spindle motor over to get it in
[20:23:33] <spack> yeah
[20:23:39] <Tom_itx> iirc he notched out the celing for it
[20:23:49] <Tom_itx> can't really remember that well
[20:24:00] <spack> we could probably fit most stuff through the rafters
[20:24:03] <spack> there's no ceiling
[20:24:04] <Tom_itx> it was one of his first cnc's
[20:24:22] <Tom_itx> yeah if you can straddle the rafters
[20:24:33] <Tom_itx> if it would fit between...
[20:24:36] <spack> yeah
[20:24:44] <spack> gotta go change my oil
[20:24:49] <spack> bbl
[20:24:49] <Tom_itx> it's still gonna take a fair amount of space
[20:24:59] <spack> well we have nothing else in the garage yet
[20:25:07] <spack> i just need to fill it with machines
[20:25:08] <spack> :)
[20:26:25] <Tom_itx> my friend got one of his old trees back for next to nothing but had to put a new spindle and X axis ballscrew bearing in it
[20:27:01] <Tom_itx> the bearing was ~1400 from the dealer but he found one for $700
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[20:36:19] <CaptHindsight> anyone need a set of NMTB-40 holders?
[20:39:10] <CaptHindsight> spack: I was going to look at that Hurco out in Woodstock
[20:40:08] <CaptHindsight> I wonder if he's actually closer to Hebron since that is his ebay nick
[20:41:57] * JT-Shop wonders how much baking soda it takes to neutralize 2 gallons of battery acid...
[20:42:24] <CaptHindsight> heh, was there a small spill?
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[20:47:31] <CaptHindsight> JT-Shop: http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20061113221700AAbHQrW 1:1
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[20:50:15] <JT-Shop> no, just cleaning the old acid tank out as I don't know the condition of the acid
[20:52:39] <CaptHindsight> 1.84 g/cm³ sulfuric acid density
[20:55:01] <CaptHindsight> 2 gallons at 50% concentration of acid = ~4 liters x 1.84kg = ~16lbs of baking soda
[20:56:01] <CaptHindsight> measure the pH after
[20:57:49] <DJ9DJ> gn8
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[21:05:24] <JT-Shop> battery acid is only ~30% sulfuric acid
[21:07:59] <JT-Shop> so 2.3 liters of acid x 1.25 = 2.9 kg of acid
[21:08:37] <JT-Shop> so 6 lbs of baking soda
[21:09:24] <CaptHindsight> 2 gallons = 7.6 L
[21:12:49] <JT-Shop> yes but 70% is water
[21:13:15] <CaptHindsight> I agree
[21:14:29] <CaptHindsight> not sure where you density of only 1.25 comes from
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[21:15:09] <CaptHindsight> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sulfuric_acid
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[21:41:36] <skunkworks> http://www.electronicsam.com/images/KandT/testing/Screenshot%20from%202013-09-01%2016:38:32.png
[21:41:53] <skunkworks> asus k55a laptop...
[21:42:06] <skunkworks> suprised me
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[21:42:30] <skunkworks> now - the 7i80..... :)
[21:42:56] <skunkworks> i5 3rd gen with 4000 graphics.
[21:44:13] <tjtr33> good numbers, let it go overnite, was it from tiger direct?
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[21:47:02] <skunkworks> newegg
[21:47:10] <tjtr33> ty
[21:47:21] <skunkworks> the mouse is about the only issue I have found..
[21:47:30] <skunkworks> (touch pad)
[22:12:17] <jesseg> Hey guys - what sort of cable is good for servo motors for mills? One tends to need 2 or 3 heavy conductors for motor windings, then 2 or 3 small coaxial wires for the quad encoders.. Old SVGA monitor cables are sort of OK but the wires for the current carrying motor windings are usually rather small in diameter :P
[22:12:32] <jesseg> Do they make a servo motor cable that's prevelant and affordable?
[22:19:05] <tjtr33> use more than 1 cable.
[22:19:13] <tjtr33> run motor separate from encoder.
[22:19:19] <tjtr33> use shielded for encoder.
[22:19:25] <tjtr33> use a 3rd shielded for tach if you got one.
[22:19:26] <tjtr33> this is all to avoid noise.
[22:19:33] <jesseg> yeah oh I know about noise =)
[22:19:48] <kwallace2> IMHO, I would run the encoder and servo cables separately. Some here like to use microphone wire because it shielded, fairly large gauge and very flexible.
[22:20:13] <jesseg> Of course one can run a bunch of cables, then twist them all up, and put some protective layer on the outside...
[22:21:05] <tjtr33> no run in differnt direction, on differnt sides, in different passages. but you know all about noise =)
[22:21:05] <kwallace2> I use plain CAT5 for encoders. Shielded would be better, but so far so good.
[22:21:11] <tjtr33> just kidding
[22:21:33] <jesseg> But.. It just seemed that maybe there was already a cable invented for servo motors that had the big wires and the coax wires all together inside a shielded protected outer covering.. just like SVGA monitor cable (which has 3 coax, and 3 to 6 little normal wires.)
[22:21:53] <jesseg> But I guess nobody thought of that yet :P
[22:22:16] <jesseg> kwallace2, are you using balanced encoder outputs?
[22:22:22] <jesseg> I mean differential encoder outputs
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[22:23:21] <kwallace2> Yes, but I've run them both ways without any difference.
[22:23:25] <kwallace2> I had noise on my spindle encoder, and the only fix was a filter on the VFD power input.
[22:23:30] <skunkworks> cat 5 stranded - shielded
[22:24:00] <jesseg> 2-wire differential encoder outputs with proper differential receivers should work great on cat5, grounded or otherwise
[22:24:09] <jesseg> *shielded or otherwise
[22:24:37] <kwallace2> One should also look at cable termination.
[22:25:03] <jesseg> Grounding is such a problem. Can't live with it, and can't live without it:P (Joke about ground loops, ground bounce, and RF interference picked up on ground wires.)
[22:25:11] <jesseg> yeah
[22:25:27] <jesseg> I have 1k termination :P
[22:25:32] <jesseg> (aka pullups.)
[22:29:35] <jesseg> Doesn't microphone cable have two conductors other than the shield?
[22:30:04] <jesseg> I guess that would be completely perfect (if not overkill) for 2-wire differential encoders - one mic cable per encoder channel (two per motor)
[22:30:32] <jesseg> but I've had trouble with capacitive coupling between two different encoder phase signals inside the same shield
[22:30:59] <kwallace2> I meant to use mic cable for the servo motor.
[22:31:02] <kwallace2> A lot of inputs are the LED on an opto-isolator which has a relatively low impedance, but a buffer input can have a high impedance and any noise will drive the noise above a volt or more.
[22:31:29] <jesseg> Oh - mic cable for the high current?
[22:31:39] <jesseg> Interesting... sheilded too, to keep the noise in.
[22:32:23] <jesseg> I didn't imagine the signal wires in mic cable would be particularly large current carriers.. but if so that's a great idea
[22:33:57] <kwallace2> I haven't used mic cable, but have heard about it on the e-mail (Gene H.) list.
[22:35:16] <jesseg> What about plugs? One plug for motor, another for encoder?
[22:37:06] <spack> CaptHindsight: you're out by woodstock kinda right?
[22:38:03] <spack> well, that's a bit further out than i thought, looking at a map
[22:38:10] <spack> but nonetheless
[22:39:42] <kwallace2> I tend to use barrier terminal strips instead of connectors because they are cheap and connections tend to stay connected once everything is sorted out.
[22:40:01] <kwallace2> http://www.wallacecompany.com/cnc_lathe/HNC/00011-1a.jpg
[22:40:39] <spack> why are they called barrier terminal strips?
[22:40:49] <kwallace2> http://www.wallacecompany.com/cnc_lathe/HNC/00013-1a.jpg
[22:41:40] <jesseg> Nice pics. Almost looks like a solderless breadboard in that second pic
[22:42:01] <kwallace2> I think because there is a wall or barrier between each screw terminal, but I don't really know.
[22:42:27] <kwallace2> Just perfboard. http://www.wallacecompany.com/cnc_lathe/HNC/00012-1a.jpg
[22:43:08] <jesseg> kwallace2, Ah. yeah. the light was reflecting off of it in that one picture, made it look all white
[22:44:11] <jesseg> So are the differential receivers like MAX485 or whatever TI's little 485 transceiver chip is?
[22:44:31] <kwallace2> Here are some solderless boards :) http://www.wallacecompany.com/machine_shop/Shizuoka/00011-1a.jpg
[22:45:04] <spack> i suck at using those
[22:45:13] <spack> i always have wires popping out and messing me up
[22:45:57] <jesseg> hehe
[22:46:22] <spack> neat: http://www.wallacecompany.com/cnc_lathe/HNC/00004-1a.jpg
[22:46:54] <jesseg> what is that?
[22:47:07] <spack> caption says "Shop made terminal strips and encoder differential driver."
[22:47:18] <jesseg> oh the encoder cover
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[22:48:43] <jesseg> Thanks guys. Later.
[22:49:25] <spack> see ya
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[22:52:07] <kwallace2> I copied the diff trans part number from US Digital. http://www.ti.com/product/am26c31
[22:52:20] <Mjolinor> does anyone know how to put the metric instruciton into the millproject file of pcb2gcode?
[22:52:50] <Mjolinor> it's "--metrix" on the command line but I can't work out how to put it in the millproject config file
[22:52:59] <Mjolinor> it's "--metric" on the command line but I can't work out how to put it in the millproject config file
[22:54:42] <kwallace2> I have no idea, sorry. :(
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[22:58:50] <kwallace2> Interesting, from http://reprap.org/wiki/PCB_Milling it says "The --metric option isn't working. If you're in metric world, divide all parameter values by 25.4, RepRap controllers can deal with imperial units."
[22:59:19] <Mjolinor> --metric seems to work OK
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[23:00:07] <Mjolinor> but if I forget to put --metric on the command line my boards are 25.4 times too big :)
[23:00:17] <CaptHindsight> JT-Shop: I see you were using the density of water with 30% sulfuric acid.
[23:04:58] <spack> just throw down baking soda until it stops foaming :)
[23:06:02] <kwallace2> It looks like millproject is a text file with a "keyword=value" on each line. No clue as to the metric form of the pair.
[23:06:27] <Mjolinor> well it aint units=mm or units=metric
[23:06:34] <Mjolinor> doesnt recognise "units"
[23:06:53] <Mjolinor> Ill jsut write a bach script to call it and stick metric in there
[23:07:07] <Mjolinor> my typing is gone to poit, think it's bedtime
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[23:07:26] <Mjolinor> could be quite musical a bach script
[23:07:34] <tjtr33> maybe metric=1 or metric=TRUE or such
[23:08:04] <Mjolinor> you clever bugger :)
[23:08:13] <Mjolinor> that worked >> metric=true
[23:08:24] <tjtr33> :)
[23:08:55] <Mjolinor> hmm, well it didnt error but it says my board is 1.79in x 0.995in
[23:09:01] <Mjolinor> ill check the gcode
[23:09:11] <kwallace2> "metric", "use metric units for parameters. does not affect gcode output"
[23:09:30] <Mjolinor> well it will if the parameters in the millproject file are in mm
[23:09:32] <kwallace2> in options.cpp
[23:11:10] <spack> kwallace2: how much does synergy cost?
[23:11:29] <Mjolinor> thanks anyway, I will look tomorrow, sleep time now
[23:11:31] <skunkworks> http://www.electronicsam.com/images/KandT/testing/Screenshot%20from%202013-09-01%2017:59:48.png
[23:12:28] <kwallace2> It depends on the options you want. Many years ago I got the 3D stuff for $800, but who knows now.
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[23:13:01] <NickParker> what's the ideal graphics card for latency killing?
[23:13:21] <kwallace2> skunkworks: what changed?
[23:14:28] <kwallace2> NickParker: There is no telling which card will work. I have a pile I go through when needed.
[23:15:17] <NickParker> well that's troublesome, i have a very meager supply of old cards at the local shops
[23:15:42] <kwallace2> I had a card that worked well on 8.04 and bombed on 10.04. Somewhere along the way the driver was "fixed".
[23:16:09] <NickParker> i've got an nvidia card in atm that's just total crap
[23:16:14] <skunkworks> kwallace2: nothing really - just been running for a few hours. Just wanted to show the specs
[23:16:22] <NickParker> I've got an ati card i could try if i had a spare 6 pin power, but i don't
[23:18:37] <tjtr33> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?TroubleShooting suggested old Matrox cards
[23:19:39] <kwallace2> I usually find that using the vesa driver works if it plays well with the card I happen to have. It's usually a day of doing battle with the card, drivers and Xconf.
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[23:21:06] <NickParker> How's this? http://www.ebay.com/itm/PCI-Dual-monitor-Dual-VGA-Graphics-Video-Card-Matrox-G450-16MB-/171114228615?pt=PCC_Video_TV_Cards&hash=item27d733eb87
[23:21:47] <CaptHindsight> $52 for a 12mm x1.25 heli-coil kit, that didn't even include the drill bit :(
[23:23:11] <kwallace2> NickParker: That's a PCI card, is that what you need?
[23:23:20] <NickParker> i have PCI and PCIe available
[23:23:26] <NickParker> so yeah either works
[23:24:15] <kwallace2> What computer are you using?
[23:24:34] <NickParker> an $80 hp from the junk shop
[23:24:36] <NickParker> with a p4 in it
[23:26:08] <NickParker> let me go hunting for some part numbers.
[23:26:27] <NickParker> compaqq dc7100
[23:26:40] <kwallace2> I haven't gotten any better 2?,000 for latency on a P4, which should be good enough.
[23:26:56] <NickParker> is that under load or idle?
[23:27:04] <NickParker> i get 23,000 just idling
[23:27:09] <NickParker> but spikes to 50 waving windows around and such
[23:27:40] <kwallace2> Okay, which driver?
[23:27:48] <NickParker> 5i25
[23:27:56] <skunkworks> kwallace2: laptop. really not something usable (no printer port) but it would run a Ethernet solution...
[23:28:09] <NickParker> er 6i25
[23:28:10] <NickParker> sorry
[23:28:13] <kwallace2> Oops, I mean X video driver.
[23:28:40] <skunkworks> but a pleasant surprise...
[23:29:30] <NickParker> oh let me check...
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[23:31:23] <kwallace2> BTW I got one of these http://www.ebay.com/itm/370887786964 and got 25,000 for latency, then configed grub with "idle=poll" and got 3,000, woo hoo.
[23:32:10] <skunkworks> same with this laptop - idle=poll really tamed it..
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[23:34:38] <skunkworks> I don't think I can disable hypterthreading in the bios
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[23:34:55] <NickParker> how do i check drivers in ubuntu?
[23:35:06] <NickParker> some quick googling didn't yield an answer, sorry
[23:36:32] <NickParker> oh got it with lshw -c video
[23:36:55] <NickParker> Geforce 9400 GT
[23:37:02] <NickParker> nouveau driver
[23:37:22] <kwallace2> I used to check or make a new /etc/X11/Xconf or some such file, but X has been "improved".
[23:37:39] <NickParker> also how do i do that idle=poll thing you two are raving about?
[23:38:21] <NickParker> this accurate?
[23:38:21] <NickParker> http://www.redhat.com/archives/rhl-list/2007-September/msg00443.html
[23:39:04] <kwallace2> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xorg.conf
[23:40:21] <kwallace2> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?RealTime
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[23:42:44] <kwallace2> Typing "while true ; do echo "nothing" > /dev/null ; done " in a terminal, instantly improved my latency, so I looked further and found idle=poll. But this is on a dual core CPU.
[23:43:58] <kwallace2> Turning HyperT off on my P4 made it more stable but didn't help latency.
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[23:50:11] <kwallace2> Here is an old xorg.conf file I have used: http://www.wallacecompany.com/tmp_hnc/xorg.conf
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[23:50:49] <NickParker> the while true echo nothing bit lowered mny latency by about 2000
[23:50:54] <NickParker> 21000-22000 idle now
[23:51:23] <NickParker> i can't find my xorg.conf file
[23:51:33] <NickParker> searching /etc/ didn't find it
[23:51:45] <kwallace2> Now a days, you need to create it.
[23:51:47] <NickParker> and searching the whole file system just got me an empty file named xorg something or other
[23:53:46] <kwallace2> We aren't supposed to use it, but Xorg doesn't seem to allow mere mortals to play with X unless you have a masters in X.
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[23:54:42] <NickParker> hey what the.. i saved the text of that link as xorg.conf from notepad++ on a flash drive
[23:54:49] <NickParker> plugged it into my mill pc and it doesn't see xorg.con
[23:54:50] <NickParker> f
[23:55:23] <NickParker> oh windows doesn't either
[23:55:29] <NickParker> lol i just unplugged too soon most likely
[23:56:32] <kwallace2> You need to place xorg.conf in the /etc/X11 directory and you will need root privileges.
[23:57:03] <kwallace2> Then reboot, or at least logout and in.
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[23:58:05] <kwallace2> Warning, you can truly bork your system playing with xorg.conf.
[23:58:15] <NickParker> bork how bad?
[23:58:20] <NickParker> reinstall the OS bad or toast stuff bad?
[23:58:32] <NickParker> i don't care about the OS, i haven't done anything to it after linuxcnc installed.
[23:58:44] <NickParker> speaking of, what's the default root password for linuxcnc
[23:59:28] <kwallace2> The worst usually is that you have to boot in text safe mode and sudo edit xorg.conf.