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[01:11:47] <RyanS> We have heaps of bar & plate stock from an insolvency sale (it came from their tool room). It' had been sorted as mild steel, stainless steel, brass, aluminium, even some titanium, some of it still has codes printed, but are there any diy tests that can be done to determine specific types? I know about the spark test but that's just and to find the general family
[01:12:49] <RyanS> And magnetism obviously
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[01:16:16] <AR_> brass is brass colored
[01:16:31] <AR_> aluminum is lighter than steel
[01:16:35] <RyanS> duh
[01:16:42] <AR_> so that takes care of two
[01:16:58] <CaptHindsight> some of the shiny silver stuff looks a lot alike
[01:17:33] <AR_> stainless is usually shiner than mild steel
[01:17:40] <Chemeleon> if theres some you cant be sure about, measure and weigh it
[01:17:50] <jdh> spray some saltwater on it and check it in a day or two
[01:17:59] <AR_> lol
[01:18:00] <AR_> ^
[01:18:02] <CaptHindsight> http://alloytester.com/XRF-alloy-analyzers-2 not sure how much you have but maybe buy/rent one of these
[01:18:29] <RyanS> "specific type" = 316, 304, 1060 carbon, and the myriad different grades of aluminium
[01:19:38] <RyanS> ie I can't tell whether it is my technique or the machineability of the type of steel I have on hand
[01:19:42] <AR_> http://www.scrapmetaljunkie.com/scrap-metal-handbook-guide/scrap-metal-identification
[01:19:57] <jdh> I have a couple of XRFs at work. The guys in the next building have a couple of handheld ones
[01:21:40] <CaptHindsight> bring your parts to the Quality Expo next month for a field test :)
[01:22:06] <RyanS> Isn't there some chemistry tests.. grind up sample.. add chemical
[01:22:20] <Tom_itx> of course
[01:22:22] <CaptHindsight> and spectroscopy
[01:22:37] <CaptHindsight> burn and analyze the spectra
[01:22:49] <RyanS> But you probably can't get the chemicals easily....
[01:23:46] <CaptHindsight> how much do you have?
[01:24:21] <CaptHindsight> the X-ray type testers work in seconds
[01:24:48] <CaptHindsight> but purchase price is ~$25k
[01:26:00] <CaptHindsight> http://compare.ebay.com/like/200955359646?var=lv<yp=AllFixedPriceItemTypes&var=sbar
[01:26:19] <RyanS> We don't have /that/ much, my old man bought it, doesn't really use it,, but I am starting to go through it
[01:26:53] <CaptHindsight> start by sorting the obvious
[01:27:09] <RyanS> done
[01:27:36] <RyanS> I mean aluminium and brass seemed to have good machine ability regardless of the specific grade, but is there a considerable difference with carbon steel types
[01:27:52] <eric_unterhausen> my wonderful children are running their windows machines as administrators
[01:28:02] <eric_unterhausen> my daughter's brand new computer is infected
[01:28:11] <eric_unterhausen> of course, with no recovery disk
[01:29:08] <RyanS> I can only guess that coming from a tool room , the majority of it would logically have good machineability
[01:29:10] <CaptHindsight> oh those were the days, when they try to get permissions and break the install
[01:31:08] <CaptHindsight> eric_unterhausen: I just stopped giving them windows
[01:31:26] <eric_unterhausen> my wife insists on buying them computers
[01:31:32] <eric_unterhausen> my daughter is an adult
[01:31:44] <RyanS> Sometimes I think am I doing something different on the lathe this time, or is this steel crappy
[01:31:47] <eric_unterhausen> she wants to know where she can take it to get it fixed
[01:32:33] <RyanS> the brass and aluminium machines good amyway....
[01:32:39] <jdh> look on craigslist!
[01:32:54] <jdh> someoen at work asked me about that today. I told them to buy a new computer
[01:33:11] <eric_unterhausen> I just want to format
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[01:33:19] <eric_unterhausen> but that means throwing good money after bad
[01:34:02] <CaptHindsight> I heard from somebody that knows someone that there are M$ disk images online
[01:34:18] <jdh> no, really?
[01:34:21] <eric_unterhausen> rootkits preinstalled
[01:34:31] <jdh> don't most computers come with a recovery partition now
[01:35:29] <RyanS> All this metal and came from a closing down Kodak facility, I guess they had a tool room for umm repairing their machines??
[01:35:53] <CaptHindsight> RyanS: in Rochester NY?
[01:36:26] <RyanS> Australia, my dad bought it about 10 years ago
[01:37:29] <RyanS> 2 steel cabinets, 6'x7'x1' approximately completely full
[01:38:40] <RyanS> he sold off all the stuff that was too big for his lathe
[01:40:06] <RyanS> I don't really know if it is worth the hassle to use up the stainless steel unless there is a very reason to do so
[01:42:45] <RyanS> We have aluminium plate galore, but there is literally no carbon steel plate & 1 bit of square bar CS for some reason
[01:45:41] <RyanS> And some titanium... No idea what to do with that
[01:49:11] <jdh> make titanium things
[01:49:54] <RyanS> Don't you need some fancy turning tools
[01:50:19] <jdh> never tried, but I've read it isnt' as difficult to cut as normally thought
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[01:52:17] <RyanS> hmm I know we had to drill through 316 stainless, it ate cobalt drill bits for breakfast
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[01:56:01] <CaptHindsight> sell mystery metal bars on ebay :)
[01:57:17] <CaptHindsight> could be salvage from crashed alien ships, military experiments, mad scientist grab bag
[01:57:43] <RyanS> Magical mystery metal bar tour
[01:58:08] <RyanS> Just label it steam punk and be done with it
[01:59:19] <CaptHindsight> there is a science and surplus store here that still labels items like that
[02:00:14] <CaptHindsight> http://www.sciplus.com/ was much better back in the 70's, now it's mostly stuff I'd throw away
[02:01:05] <jdh> I loved their paper catalogs back in the day
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[02:04:15] <RyanS> There is a guy on etsy makes these amazing steampunk desk lamps much better than most of the other glued together crap
[02:04:48] <RyanS> My next project idea
[02:06:43] <CaptHindsight> jdh: I didn't know that it was even heard of outside of the Chicago area back then
[02:08:53] <RyanS> my idea is to make a lampshade for a halogen desk lamp out of copper sheet metal but like a sunflower ..
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[02:09:13] <eric_unterhausen> I need someone with a 3d printer to make me an extruder
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[02:09:22] <eric_unterhausen> either that or talk my boss into buying a 3d printer
[02:09:32] <RyanS> But probably needs actual artistic skill ufortunately :(
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[02:10:05] <CaptHindsight> eric_unterhausen: what type of extruder?
[02:10:28] <RyanS> I wonder if you could 3-D print a form to hammer thiscopper sheet into
[02:10:51] <RyanS> Probably needs wood actually
[02:11:02] <Chemeleon> 3d print I'd think may flex too much
[02:11:11] <Chemeleon> would would be stronger and quicker to make
[02:11:23] <CaptHindsight> 3d printing is not just glue guns
[02:11:54] <RyanS> I remember in high school, making a copper bowl, it was pretty easy. From memory
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[02:12:17] <Chemeleon> did you make it freeform, or whas there a form it was hammered around?
[02:12:58] <RyanS> I think it was from a wooden block that was chiselled out
[02:14:06] <eric_unterhausen> CaptHindsight: looking at some sort of Bowden extruder, like
http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:60531/#comments
[02:14:09] <RyanS> It would be really easy CNC, make a die
[02:15:15] <eric_unterhausen> I think a form to hammer things would be problematic
[02:15:29] <eric_unterhausen> the accepted tech is a bag full of shot and an english wheel
[02:16:14] <RyanS> What is the bag for?
[02:16:23] <eric_unterhausen> I mentioned making a 3d printer on the book of faces, and my sister chimed in and said I had to make her one
[02:16:36] <eric_unterhausen> the bag of shot is to conform to the shape
[02:17:10] <RyanS> Like a support surface?
[02:17:26] <RyanS> I think engravers use that too
[02:19:33] <eric_unterhausen> see about 2:15 of this vid:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WHKNkcVZvN8
[02:19:35] <Tecan> (WHKNkcVZvN8) "Jesse James - Custom Gas Tank - Motorcycle Mania" by "chopperfucker" is "Autos" - Length: 0:06:24
[02:19:46] <eric_unterhausen> that Tecan thing is annoying
[02:20:22] <RyanS> Tecan get lost
[02:20:38] <RyanS> Just as I thought. No response
[02:20:51] <eric_unterhausen> I was going to mention that the username of the person that posted that vid was nsfw
[02:21:08] <eric_unterhausen> but tecan helpfully just displayed it
[02:22:19] <RyanS> That seems too much like hard work :)
[02:23:52] <RyanS> "You can always beat metal into submission"
[02:24:02] <RyanS> kinky
[02:24:36] <eric_unterhausen> when I used to visit a sheet metal shop, I always wondered how they kept their hearing
[02:24:51] <eric_unterhausen> actually, they probably didn't, I'm deaf in one ear
[02:24:54] <jdh> they are protected by OSHA regs!
[02:26:20] <RyanS> those metal analyses are x-ray?! Isnt that kind of unsafe for handheld use
[02:26:27] <eric_unterhausen> the alternative to the technique shown in that video is multi-million dollar machines and tooling
[02:26:53] <eric_unterhausen> low levels of xrays, I guess
[02:27:41] <eric_unterhausen> I should go an build my 3d printer instead of complaining about tecan
[02:28:19] <Tecan> i should repstrap mine cause i broke my melzi board
[02:28:31] <Tecan> but i'll just end up getting a new one
[02:29:05] <RyanS> huh
[02:29:07] <Tecan> is there a solution for linuxemc running on low latency kernels yet ?
[02:29:37] <RyanS> I thought you were a robot
[02:29:46] <Tecan> hybrid
[02:30:12] <CaptHindsight> Tecan: what do you mean? Linuxcnc runs on RTAI and also xenomai and RT-Preempt
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[02:30:40] <Tecan> yeah
[02:31:12] <CaptHindsight> RTAI support is up to v3.5 and 3.4 kernels
[02:31:21] <RyanS> I'd buy that for a dollar...
http://www.alibaba.com/product-gs/1224703865/DSHX_2_xrf_metal_analyzer.html?s=p
[02:31:58] <CaptHindsight> great Robocop line
[02:33:07] <RyanS> I used to think that movie was stupid.. But It actually has a fair bit of political commentary
[02:33:12] <CaptHindsight> metal laser sintering is dropping in price
[02:34:09] <Chemeleon> theres what, a year or two before the patents on that concept expire?
[02:34:24] <CaptHindsight> e-beam will as well, e-beam can print over a liter per hour of metal
[02:34:48] <RyanS> I should get on with my essay which is due in nine days. Stop procrastinating
[02:35:01] <Chemeleon> but you've got 8 days and 23 hours to spare! ;)
[02:35:02] <CaptHindsight> Chemeleon: yes, some of the original laser sintering patents expire next year
[02:35:17] <RyanS> True
[02:38:16] <CaptHindsight> if it wasn't for the last minute nothing would get done
[02:38:45] <Chemeleon> working under that pressure is as useful a skill as proper time management
[02:40:01] <RyanS> I could never imagine doing a Ph.D.. 3500wd undergraduate essays are just fine tyvm
[02:40:22] <RyanS> It sounds like self-imposed torture
[02:40:23] <Chemeleon> heh
[02:40:40] <Chemeleon> yea, but its basically a license to act pretentious whenever you want :)
[02:40:54] <jdh> it might be worth it for that.
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[02:42:33] <RyanS> I was thinking of doing honours but, meh 15k words.. You can do Masters by coursewor which I'm told is a little bit like undergraduate individual units
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[03:25:31] <eric_unterhausen> Chemeleon: that's why I'm not a successful academic, earning a Ph.D. and unable to act pretentious
[03:30:23] <Chemeleon> try wearing a monocle and speaking in a fake british accent, that should correct most of the issue
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[05:18:12] <Tecan> rtapi/rtapi_rtai_shm_wrap.h:19:22: fatal error: rtai_shm.h: No such file or directory
[05:20:15] <Tecan> nm must not be seeing it in proper spot
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[05:26:18] <Tecan> needed -I/usr/include/rtai
[05:38:05] <Tecan> asm/system.h: No such file or directory
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[06:50:52] <DJ9DJ> moin
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[07:15:07] <archivist> travelling microscope for stuff like thread measuring 221273965049
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[12:31:26] <Tecan> http://pastebin.com/mEiF75Pe
[12:32:22] <Tecan> i had to copy some headers from /usr/src/linux-headers-3.5.0-39-lowlatency/arch/arm/include maybe that did it the wrong arch ?
[12:36:18] <Tecan> old version of rtai ?
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[12:52:21] <Tecan> i dont have ipipe that rs274 wants
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[13:06:47] <Tecan> oh i see its the xenomai patch
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[14:13:02] <tjtr33> re: identify metal. nobody suggested sparking the stock?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spark_testing
[14:13:44] <tjtr33> i was just at recyclers and noticed the guy take some stuf to a pedastal grinder to check what the material was
[14:14:01] <tjtr33> i was impressed someone was so old school
[14:17:40] <tjtr33> http://books.google.com/books?id=jt8DAAAAMBAJ&pg=PA192#v=onepage&q&f=false
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[14:59:12] <awallin> did anyone from here back this kickstarter?
http://www.dalecnc.com/ any latest news? ATC spindles in hobby size and hobby budget would be interesting..
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[15:31:09] <JT-Shop> hmmm I have a 4mm (really 8-32) screw that I need to turn down the end... wondering how to hold it?
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[15:36:23] <archivist> nut with a spilt to grip the thread when in a 3 jaw
[15:36:37] <Tom_itx> JT-Shop, lock a couple nuts on the shaft and grip it with them
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[15:36:51] <Tom_itx> ^^
[15:36:54] <cradek> yeah I've done it with double nuts (just grab one if they don't line up)
[15:37:13] <JT-Shop> the screw
http://imagebin.org/269126
[15:37:47] <cradek> or you could just remake the whole thing
[15:37:59] <Tom_itx> poke a live center in the end of it so it won't wobble
[15:38:31] <Tom_itx> i've done a couple of those for an air cleaner once
[15:39:03] <Tom_itx> or hold it in a drill and use a grinder while spinning it
[15:39:15] <Tom_itx> not sure how accurate you need it
[15:39:16] <archivist> or file
[15:39:41] <cradek> if you spin it left-handed and mount your tool upside-down the drive nut won't loosen
[15:39:57] <JT-Shop> trying to remember how a close nipple adapter works on a pipe vise...
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[15:40:11] <JT-Shop> cradek: that might be the easy way
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[15:41:17] * JT-Shop goes to see if tools can somehow be mounted upside down on the CHNC
[15:42:22] <cradek> or maybe you can get a right-side-up tool behind it
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[15:42:45] <JT-Shop> looks like a boring bar upside down might work
[15:43:45] <cradek> if you need the small part long and thin, try cutting it to full depth in one pass
[15:43:47] <JT-Shop> yep that's even a better idea use the boring bar on the back side and M4
[15:44:20] <cradek> much less deflection if you do it all at once
[15:44:26] <JT-Shop> it's 0.160 and I need to cut them down to 0.140 so just cutting some of the threads off
[15:44:37] <cradek> ah, easy
[15:44:44] <JT-Shop> it is now lol
[15:44:48] <JT-Shop> I have a plan
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[15:50:15] <PCW> 00000FE0FF100057FFED0085
[15:50:17] <PCW> 1111111000001111111100010000000000000101011111111111111011010000000010000101
[15:50:19] <PCW> 7777776666666666555555555544444444443333333333222222222211111111110000000000
[15:50:20] <PCW> 5432109876543210987654321098765432109876543210987654321098765432109876543210
[15:50:22] <PCW> CRC = 1F CRC Remainder = 00 Index det: true Bat det: true
[15:50:24] <PCW> Count = 65531 Turns = 5 ComAbs = 1020
[15:50:25] <PCW> I believe Ive got the Fanuc serial encoders scoped out :-)
[15:50:34] <JT-Shop> nice
[15:51:02] <PCW> 65536 counts/turn is nice
[15:51:25] <PCW> (theres a 1M count model as well)
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[15:52:47] <Tom_itx> they must count with the index at high speed
[15:53:42] <PCW> The index is a little funny is really indicates whether the count is really absolute or whether you have lost battery power
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[16:19:59] <JT-Shop> Thanks for the ideas guys, the screw holder
http://imagebin.org/269130
[16:20:35] <cradek> cool
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[16:26:36] <PetefromTn> nice solution, I have to remove threads of bolts and screws to make shafts etc often. There are lots of good ways to do it.
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[17:05:33] <IchGuckLive> hi all around the Globe :D O.O
[17:06:13] <IchGuckLive> what a nice day plasmas where freeking out on orders
[17:06:21] <CaptHindsight> is it Octoberfest yet?
[17:06:32] <IchGuckLive> need to get a high speed laser cutter on 3mm sheet metal !!!
[17:06:40] <IchGuckLive> CaptHindsight: no
[17:07:04] <IchGuckLive> http://www.oktoberfest-tv.de/de/kameras
[17:07:49] <IchGuckLive> as you can see there is no action on the ground jet stil 14days to go
[17:07:58] <IchGuckLive> 3weeks
[17:08:26] <IchGuckLive> 21sep 11:00
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[17:11:24] <IchGuckLive> thermometer is this the same in english ?
[17:11:34] <IchGuckLive> to messure the temp
[17:11:59] <CaptHindsight> yes, only we still use F vs C in the US
[17:12:11] <IchGuckLive> b)
[17:12:21] <IchGuckLive> b9
[17:12:37] <IchGuckLive> Thanks
[17:12:53] <IchGuckLive> :B)
[17:15:12] <IchGuckLive> my emotion has gone R.I.P
[17:15:31] <IchGuckLive> B)
[17:16:04] <Tom_itx> http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/temp/sign.jpg
[17:16:20] <IchGuckLive> i think i did image2dxf outline 1000 times this wek
[17:17:11] <IchGuckLive> Tom_itx: WTF stands for
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[17:17:40] <IchGuckLive> Loving out load , oh my God
[17:18:18] -!- md-2 has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
[17:19:14] <IchGuckLive> seen! jesus
[17:21:02] <Tom_itx> !seen IchGuckLive
[17:21:02] <the_wench> last seen in #linuxcnc 2013-08-29 18:19:14GMT 00:01:48 ago, saying seen! jesus
[17:22:49] <IchGuckLive> :-)
[17:23:17] <IchGuckLive> there are so hard weather in spain where he lives
[17:23:40] <IchGuckLive> maybe he has been afected
[17:23:56] <IchGuckLive> as his home is in a vale tunnel
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[17:30:05] <IchGuckLive> im off by it has been a hard smelling smoky day
[17:30:09] <IchGuckLive> BY
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[17:50:00] <Tecan> do i need rtai and xenomai ?
[17:50:12] <Tecan> or either or
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[17:51:31] <archivist> would you drive a mini and a smart car at the same time
[17:51:54] <Tecan> im just wondering for compile purposes rtai is giving me issues
[17:52:19] <Tecan> and xenomai is not cooperating nicely with code::blocks
[17:52:37] <FinboySlick> archivist: One for each shoe ;)
[17:53:45] <Tecan> RTAI_SYS_VECTOR CONFLICTS WITH APIC VECTORS USED BY RTAI
[17:54:53] <FinboySlick> Tecan: You can't have both at the same time as far as I know.
[17:56:11] <Tecan> with just xenomai it goes checking for RT dir... configure: error: RT not found.
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[17:57:56] <Tecan> there arnt any xenomai options in the config either
[17:58:15] <CaptHindsight> Tecan: what problems are you having with RTAI?
[17:59:03] <CaptHindsight> there are working RTAI .debs posted for kernel v3.4
[17:59:33] <Tecan> oh i have 3.5.0
[18:00:00] <CaptHindsight> are you using seb's .deb's?
[18:00:08] <Tecan> no where are they
[18:02:02] <CaptHindsight> http://highlab.com/~seb/linuxcnc/rtai-for-3.4-prerelease/
[18:02:32] <Tecan> that might work for 3.5 ?
[18:02:45] <Tecan> oh i see its the kernel
[18:03:00] <CaptHindsight> those are complete compiled kernels
[18:03:14] <CaptHindsight> do you want to build from scratch?
[18:03:32] <Tecan> maybe
[18:03:46] <cradek> what's your ultimate goal?
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[18:04:12] <Tecan> to use emc on my main computer
[18:04:24] <cradek> to control machinery, or just for simulation?
[18:04:34] <Tecan> machine control
[18:05:11] <cradek> ah ok, just checking to make sure you're not totally on the wrong track
[18:05:43] <CaptHindsight> please try the .debs and report back with any problems
[18:05:50] <cradek> yes seb's debs will be the easy way
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[18:07:51] <CaptHindsight> https://github.com/ShabbyX/RTAI is the current home for the new RTAI patches
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[18:08:23] <CaptHindsight> https://github.com/ShabbyX/RTAI/blob/master/README.INSTALL has the info for building but not for debian/ubuntu
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[18:12:58] <Tecan> will try later probably just wanted to see current state of things ;)
[18:13:04] <Tecan> i'll wait for next iso
[18:14:17] <cradek> does your machine not run the 10.04 cd? there's no reason not to use it if you want a simple install for machine control.
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[18:17:38] <dosas> oin #linuxcnc
[18:17:48] <cradek> you made it
[18:17:52] <dosas> lol
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[18:56:38] <spack> hey
[18:57:00] <spack> was just looking at the mesa 7i80db
[18:57:04] <spack> looks pretty abdass
[18:57:07] <spack> *badass
[18:57:19] <spack> seems like linuxcnc can't talk to it yet though?
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[18:58:04] <CaptHindsight> drivers are currently in the works
[18:58:29] <cradek> there are a lot of dependencies that aren't yet fully worked out
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[18:58:48] <cradek> for a retrofit today, recommend choosing the pci-based stuff
[18:59:48] <spack> so for now it'd be more of a custom scripting thing
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[19:00:07] <cradek> I don't understand your question
[19:00:23] <spack> i mean i'd have to send commands to it using something other than linuxcnc
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[19:00:40] <spack> a script that i write for a particular task for example
[19:00:43] <cradek> I suppose - what's your ultimate goal?
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[19:01:28] <spack> i don't have one right now
[19:01:39] <spack> i just like the idea
[19:01:44] <cradek> ah
[19:02:00] <cradek> yeah the ethernet-based stuff should have a interesting future
[19:02:04] <CaptHindsight> spack: currently no driver, PCW mentioned: the Ethernet card are just UDP slaves (send read/write data commands, read data returned)
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[19:04:28] <spack> cool, just curious
[19:04:29] <spack> thanks
[19:04:55] <spack> i think my biggest concern now is how to get 480v to my bostomatic if it requires it
[19:05:11] <CaptHindsight> wires? :)
[19:05:55] <skunkworks_> tesla coil..
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[19:07:41] <spack> hehe
[19:07:44] <spack> really long wires i suppose
[19:08:14] <spack> or pay the utility company to install 480 service
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[19:08:21] <spack> or buy a really really big transformer
[19:08:45] <CaptHindsight> what do you have for power now?
[19:08:53] <spack> 220 single phase
[19:09:05] <spack> 60A i think
[19:09:55] <CaptHindsight> and the bostomatic is 480V 3p?
[19:10:06] <CaptHindsight> how many amps?
[19:10:19] <spack> it's possible, the seller has been in and out of the hospital so i haven't been able to figure out details like that
[19:10:29] <spack> some of them are 220 single phase, some are 480 3 phase
[19:10:34] <spack> i'm hoping i get lucy
[19:10:37] <spack> +k
[19:11:02] <archivist> an inverter or few will fix it
[19:11:57] <spack> inverter + transformer right?
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[19:13:06] <archivist> no, 220 inverter to spindle motor for example
[19:13:30] <archivist> inverter== VFD
[19:16:58] <Jymmmm> http://www.boeing.com/Features/2012/10/bds_champ_10_22_12.html
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[19:32:53] <CaptHindsight> Jymmmm: a small handheld or auto mounted version of that with a range of 50ft would be handy :)
[19:33:43] <Jymmmm> CaptHindsight: microwave oven on top of the car... LOTS of them.
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[19:45:30] <spack> so a VFD can output variable voltage as well as frequency?
[19:45:35] <spack> i've never used one beofre
[19:45:37] <spack> *before
[19:46:44] <archivist> not variable voltage except as part of ramping up power
[19:47:54] <archivist> usually it is possible to rewire a 440 motor to 220 for a single phase input 3 phase output vfd
[19:48:22] <spack> just lower torque?
[19:48:35] <CaptHindsight> http://www.vfds.com/what-is-a-vfd
[19:48:47] <archivist> no, same but higher current
[19:49:11] <archivist> move from star wiring to delta
[19:49:52] <archivist> wonderful toys, just wish they did not die in my cold damp garage
[19:50:43] <CaptHindsight> archivist: what do they currently there for 3Phase? delta or wye?
[19:53:03] <CaptHindsight> the US used to be nearly all delta until the 80's, now most util wiring comes in as wye
[19:53:47] <archivist> star for 440 motors, whatever is on the motor plate
[19:55:13] <archivist> although larger motors are started in star then switched to delta
[19:57:06] <archivist> I want a vfd to suit a dual speed 440 motor I have on a lathe
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[20:01:24] <archivist> sometimes the commons are not brought out to the connection box so you have to untape the coils to find the star point and extend to enable delta and tape it all up again
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[20:11:28] <andypugh> I had a little man do that for me on the Mill. I reckoned by the time I had bought all the laquer and insulation and suchlike, I would be spending nearly the £25 he charged.
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[20:39:10] <kwallace2> Has anyone used MTConnect with LinuxCNC?
http://www.amit-deshpande.com/2008/06/mtconnect-live.html
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[20:47:02] <andypugh> Do I want this?
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Visolux-Distance-Measuring-Lazer-120M-range-Elevator-sensing-Cranes-/161092134237
[20:47:29] <andypugh> It would allow me to debug the SSI interface, I think. But then I would feel I needed to find a use for it.
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[20:51:31] <CaptHindsight> nice toy for that price
[20:52:19] <kwallace2> Are Mesa SSI and the range finder's SSI the same?
[21:04:48] <PCW> Yes
[21:05:32] <PCW> I can write a SSI encoder simulator given a hour or two of free time
[21:07:43] <PCW> C code for an arduino doing this in a tight loop cant be more than a couple of lines of code
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[21:08:33] <DJ9DJ> gn8
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[21:18:03] <PCW> On the other hand, that rangefinder looks like fun
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[21:24:37] <andypugh> I thought of writing a simulator, but then I won't know if the bugs are in the simulator or the driver. Worse still would be complementary bugs in both that make it _look_ like it works..
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[21:35:46] <CaptHindsight> http://www.amazon.com/Granite-Cube-Pink-6-Face-3x3x3/dp/B007QQPFK6 only ~$2K
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[21:36:35] <andypugh> That seems expensive
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[21:37:03] <CaptHindsight> yeah, any idea who might have something equivalent for less?
[21:38:19] <CaptHindsight> the AA version is only $200 more
[21:38:28] <andypugh> That one does appear to be much the same price everywhere.
[21:38:37] <CaptHindsight> http://www.amazon.com/Granite-Cube-Pink-6-Face-3x3x3/dp/B007QQPFB0
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[21:41:19] <CaptHindsight> considering different approaches to self calibration over temp
[21:41:29] <andypugh> India?
http://www.indiamart.com/microflatdatums/machine-checking-master-squares.html
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[21:43:58] <joebog> Good morning
[21:44:07] <joebog> is anybody watching ?
[21:44:09] <CaptHindsight> having permanent fiducials in the machine along with a microscope mounted in the spindle area
[21:44:35] <joebog> oops pardon Capthindsight
[21:44:58] <CaptHindsight> no problem :)
[21:45:08] <andypugh> CaptHindsight: An alternative supplier to Starret:
http://www.standridgegranite.com/accessories.htm#29
[21:45:34] <andypugh> Soe, joebog What can we do for you?
[21:46:12] <joebog> I have an engraving machine to fit up :)
[21:46:56] <joebog> I found linuxcnc after searching a while and getting p*SSed off with windowz prices running to $10,000
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[21:47:52] <joebog> Im an ex engineer that used to build SCADA systems based on Perkin Elmer 3205,s
[21:48:12] <andypugh> CaptHindsight: This page has links to prices. And the prices seem much lower than Starrett:
http://www.thome-precision.com/precision-granite-parts-thome.html
[21:48:59] <joebog> NOTE WELL :) Im a hardware eng NOT software so expect lots of dumb questions :)
[21:49:01] <andypugh> Like a 2" x 12" x 6' bar for the same price as the Starrte 3" cube
[21:49:41] <andypugh> Well (he lied) the software is _so_ easy to set up that you only need to know about the hardware.
[21:49:56] <joebog> heh heh heh
[21:50:09] <joebog> been running unix for about 35 years
[21:50:14] <joebog> BUT dont know it
[21:50:16] <CaptHindsight> andypugh: I think Starrett just has the brand name
[21:50:19] <andypugh> Are you thinking stepper or servo?
[21:50:26] <joebog> stepper
[21:50:50] <joebog> its already set up with a Cipher 3 axis sytem, BUT somebody hacked it
[21:51:04] <andypugh> You may well be able to get away with just using a parallel port even.
[21:51:07] <joebog> PLUS cipher software is like its OS CRAP !!
[21:51:42] <joebog> windowz didnt work before, it doesnt work now and it wont work in future
[21:51:45] Jymmmm is now known as Jymmm
[21:52:17] <joebog> PLUS its a games platform and Im a little long in the tooth for shootemups
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[21:52:34] <andypugh> To be fair, many thousands of folk are running Windows and Mach3 perfectly happily.
[21:52:52] <joebog> wots Mach3 ?
[21:52:52] -!- KimK_2 has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
[21:53:00] <joebog> apart from 3 times the speed of sound
[21:53:07] <andypugh> It's a Windows-based CNC controller.
[21:53:27] <joebog> and only costs $25000 and crashes 3 times daily
[21:53:43] <joebog> gets four viruses a week and is constantly juggling trojans
[21:54:17] <andypugh> No, it's about $175. But the rest is probably true.
http://www.machsupport.com
[21:54:18] <joebog> PLUS when you check resources ya have 5 bytes of memory left
[21:54:39] <joebog> Thanks andy :)
[21:54:48] <joebog> but Ill pass on window$
[21:54:53] <joebog> I have 5 puters
[21:55:03] <joebog> ALL running some version of linux
[21:55:10] <joebog> even my pad is Android
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[21:55:15] <andypugh> Just trying to be fair-minded.
[21:55:24] <joebog> Its OK
[21:55:29] <andypugh> All my machines run LinuxCNC.
[21:55:39] <joebog> good :)
[21:56:32] <andypugh> Does your machine have conventional step-dir drives?
[21:56:34] <joebog> This is the first "conversion" I have done !!! but if its not to dramatic setting it up there will be more
[21:57:00] <joebog> yep it does, its a 3 axis machine but I have an indexer to fit up
[21:57:08] <joebog> so it will end up as four axis
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[21:57:25] <joebog> its primary role is making gun parts
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[21:57:35] <joebog> the job is for the local gunsmith
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[21:57:55] <joebog> Im just the silly bugger thats doing the work :)
[21:58:17] <CaptHindsight> I still have Mach on the Matsuura, it makes up position info, it updates position info from the MPG vs from the encoders
[21:58:23] <joebog> its an english pantographic engraver
[21:58:35] <joebog> I will post pics and do a write up as I go
[21:59:12] <joebog> it has a 3 axix Cipher controller fitted now
[21:59:22] <joebog> but Cipher software is $3000
[21:59:24] <andypugh> If it is pantographic does that mean it has wierd kinematics?
[22:00:03] <joebog> hhmmm no I dont think so
[22:00:19] <spack> ooh, gun parts
[22:00:32] <joebog> I have worked on quite a few engravers and small mills
[22:00:42] <joebog> I cant see any problems ( yet :) )
[22:01:40] <joebog> I have some photos already, BUT Ill have to hop over this partition to Mint 13 to get em
[22:01:55] <andypugh> Have you downloaded the LiveCD and found a machine with decently low latency?
[22:02:19] <joebog> I have a quad core Xeon 3360
[22:02:36] <joebog> I havent tested it yet
[22:02:53] <joebog> for latency I mean
[22:03:39] <andypugh> Latency actually tends to be better on relatively feeble machines. The all-time favourite was probably the Intel D525 which is a 1.6GHz Atom board.
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[22:04:37] <joebog> and where would I find a dinosaur like that ?? :)
[22:05:13] <joebog> PLUS I havent seen a 10 meg stepper drive hard drive in years :D
[22:06:07] <joebog> the zeon is the oldest machine I have
[22:06:10] <joebog> or could find
[22:06:26] <joebog> Its actually my old server
[22:06:47] <joebog> but as it runs dead cold I expect it to last a while
[22:07:18] <andypugh> Try it, you can boot from the LiveCD (either an actual CD, or a USB drive with the ISO on it) and try the latency test without actually doing any installation.
[22:07:24] <joebog> anyway I will test it shortly
[22:07:41] <joebog> yep I know
[22:07:44] <joebog> I have the seedie
[22:07:54] <joebog> I downloaded it yesterday
[22:08:25] <joebog> Im actually running it now !! its where I got the IRC channel info from
[22:08:29] <joebog> Im on my laptop
[22:09:00] <joebog> this is partition 3 the other two partitions are Mint 13 and studio 12.04
[22:11:01] <andypugh> Do you know how many IO lines you will need to run the whole system>
[22:11:03] <andypugh> ?
[22:11:14] <joebog> nope
[22:11:17] <joebog> not yet
[22:11:24] <joebog> thats why Im here :)
[22:11:56] <andypugh> Well, 2 pins per axis is a given. What does it have by way of enables and limit switches, probes, spindle controller....
[22:12:33] <joebog> I have x,y,and z axis now
[22:12:50] <joebog> there are only two limit switches I have found that are still connected
[22:13:08] <joebog> spindle speed is inverter controlled
[22:14:11] <joebog> as I mentioned, I have an indexing head that I will be adding as I go
[22:14:13] <andypugh> You probably need to allow 3 mote pins for the inverter then (start, direction, PWM)
[22:14:47] <andypugh> And some hardware to convert PWM to voltage for the Inverter.
[22:15:00] <andypugh> Any idea what step rate you will need?
[22:15:12] <joebog> not yet
[22:15:18] <joebog> once again thats why Im here
[22:15:37] <joebog> The inverter is separate physical control
[22:15:48] <joebog> all I will need for that is on/off sig
[22:16:03] <andypugh> Do you know the current axis speeds, how they are driven and what the gear ratios are?
[22:16:11] <joebog> I will post some pics later today
[22:16:23] <andypugh> You don't want G-code control of spindle speed?
[22:16:32] <joebog> the machine works quite slow
[22:17:27] <joebog> BUT its fast enough for what it has to do, The steppers are about 100 mm cubes and are rated 45 volts 3.5 amps
[22:17:31] <andypugh> Parallel port might work then, though some sort of buffering is probably wise.
[22:17:51] <joebog> there are NO data plates attatched !!!!! another Cipher "modification"
[22:18:29] <joebog> I have bought a parr converter and 5 drive boatrds
[22:18:55] <joebog> from your recommended hardware stuff
[22:19:15] <joebog> from cncgeeker.com
[22:19:17] <andypugh> Ah, which ones?
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[22:19:40] <joebog> 5 channels TA8435 series
[22:20:25] <joebog> they should arrive prob next friday
[22:20:28] <andypugh> There are no existing drives in the machine?
[22:20:35] <joebog> Im in australia BTW
[22:20:40] <joebog> north queensland
[22:20:59] <joebog> yep its a Cipher machine control box
[22:21:09] <joebog> its still made and is available
[22:21:29] <joebog> its called a Cipher3
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[22:21:45] <joebog> BUT as its windows based its a brick !!!
[22:21:56] <andypugh> You might not need those drives then. It might be easier to keep the existing drives that match the motors.
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[22:22:26] <joebog> mebbe
[22:23:31] <andypugh> Google is not playing ball, do you have any links to the Cipher stuff?
[22:23:36] <CaptHindsight> the whole setup was only $129
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[22:23:46] <andypugh> Yeah, I am sure it will come in handy.
[22:24:08] <joebog> correct Capt
[22:24:25] <andypugh> Though, if you had come here first I would probably hae been suggesting the Mesa 5i25/7i76 combo hooked up to the original drives. (that's $200)
[22:24:46] <joebog> gimme a sec Ill get the link for yas
[22:25:14] <joebog> they are all belt drives
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[22:25:20] <joebog> and appear to be 1:1
[22:25:27] <joebog> I dont know motor speeds
[22:26:55] <joebog> you blokes have gotta change yer search engine in the distribution !!!! google sucks !!!!
[22:27:48] <CaptHindsight> http://www.kosmodrom.com.ua/data/cncstepdriver/ta8435hq.pdf 1.5A avg. 2.5A peak
[22:28:13] <tjtr33> kwallace2, did the MTconnect pages render for you? kwallace2, I use ffox 20.0 and get 'This XML file does not appear to have any style information associated with it. '
[22:28:56] <joebog> nah I cant find it !!!!
[22:29:06] <CaptHindsight> tjtr33: that link to the old Popular Mechanics was great. I didn't know that Google had them available
[22:29:37] <tjtr33> tons of issues ( after my link point was some DIY ECM )
[22:29:52] <andypugh> 100mm square steppers sound like NEMA34, and that TA8435 driver sounds a little small for them.
[22:29:58] <CaptHindsight> yeah, i spent too much time earlier going through them
[22:30:19] <andypugh> How does the current PC connet to the controller?
[22:30:42] <CaptHindsight> tjtr33: I was surprised by how much hasn't changed in 50+ years
[22:31:28] <joebog> serial cable
[22:31:30] <joebog> 9 pin
[22:31:44] <andypugh> Ah
[22:32:15] <joebog> I cant find any links here
[22:32:19] <andypugh> Worth looking inside the box to see what is in there.
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[22:32:25] <joebog> Ill send em in later so ya can look
[22:32:37] <joebog> maybe
[22:32:44] <joebog> I can do that later today
[22:32:50] <andypugh> If it is modularised then it may still be possoible to retain the drives and PSU but not the controller.
[22:32:58] <joebog> its only 08:30 here
[22:33:13] <joebog> not really modulaised
[22:33:15] <andypugh> I don't have much of today left, 2330 UK time.
[22:33:20] <joebog> I can tell by the box
[22:33:54] <joebog> and Ill nearly bet its all descreet circuitry
[22:34:24] <joebog> looks like a keyboard case from the early 80,s
[22:34:42] <joebog> something honeywell would make
[22:38:05] <andypugh> That may not be altogether a bad thing.
[22:38:58] <joebog> true !!!
[22:39:15] <joebog> Im an auld fart and cant see SMD stuff :D
[22:39:21] <tjtr33> joebog: these guys ?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PlteVxlK3Mo
[22:39:22] <Tecan> (PlteVxlK3Mo) "Welcome to Cipher Symmetry (pt4).mpg" by "ciphertechnology" is "Howto" - Length: 0:01:38
[22:40:07] <JT-Shop> that's why they make glasses... from one old fart to another lol
[22:40:31] <joebog> I am running linuxcnc OS it doesnt play videos yet :D
[22:40:57] <andypugh> If I was pushing my software and hardware I reckon I would but my company contact details on my YouTube vidoes..
[22:41:03] <joebog> I am wearing glasses heh heh heh
[22:42:45] * JT-Shop can't wait to start anodizing some parts
[22:43:06] <andypugh> OK, so a software company with no online presence at all. That seems willfully perverse
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[22:44:07] <joebog> gimme 5 mins
[22:44:15] <joebog> Ill change OS's
[22:44:31] <andypugh> Ah, no, wait, there is a URL on one of their vidoes, and they do appear to have a working Apache server:
http://www.ciptech.com
[22:44:44] <tjtr33> cipher software au ciptech.com
[22:45:13] <andypugh> Yeah, it's not terribly functional
[22:46:16] <tjtr33> try
http://ciptech.com/C3/index.php?download=
[22:46:41] <tjtr33> ciptech.com/C3/index.php?download=true#installnotes
[22:46:48] <tjtr33> a bit more info
[22:47:22] <tjtr33> but i donwanna join
[22:48:11] <andypugh> Not much help on the hardware side of things.
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[22:53:15] <andypugh> Time I logged off.
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[22:53:38] <tjtr33> cipher engraving machine spindle vfd & the ctl in the 'pendant'
http://www.uksignboards.com/download.php?id=37291&sid=57969e9aaace2b671c1c0d2aacf53a96
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[22:53:42] <tjtr33> nite andy
[22:59:11] <CaptHindsight> tjtr33: do any of the EDM machines self calibrate for expansion over temp?
[23:00:47] <CaptHindsight> or have built in metrology for alignment?
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[23:02:45] <tjtr33> the scales i uses are temperature compensated. Some AGies had 'blood' coolant systems that kept frame at a loop controlled temp.
[23:03:35] <tjtr33> and all can be linear comp'd and some 2d comp'd ( but thats a 'damn lie' afaic )
[23:03:49] <tjtr33> look at Heidenhain LS series linear scales
[23:04:27] <tjtr33> actually got a few in my garage ;) like 200mm to maybe 1m
[23:04:39] <CaptHindsight> whats already in the linear motor positioners
[23:04:49] <tjtr33> ( tomp is emptyoing the basement)
[23:05:07] <CaptHindsight> are you cleaning house?
[23:05:12] <tjtr33> eh? no these are dc motors w Hiwin leadscrews and Heid linear scales
[23:05:27] <tjtr33> yep, me wanna get outta this place
[23:06:12] <CaptHindsight> we buy positioners all the time
[23:07:22] <tjtr33> nice, like kit machines. 'grab 2 of those and slap 'em together with this here controller'
[23:08:56] <CaptHindsight> most of the applications are non-contact, precision and speed over load capacity
[23:10:15] <tjtr33> my stuff is kinda heavy ( large mass , not suited for PnP )
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[23:11:51] <CaptHindsight> yeah, I actually spent a day or two shaving 40 lbs off a steel trunnion since it was never going to see any cutting action
[23:13:49] <CaptHindsight> the inertia of the tunnion was 50x that of the parts
[23:14:03] <spack> heh
[23:14:29] <tjtr33> hehe, and drill the center of the motor shaft, and the center of the ball screw, and wedge out the pulleys... yep yep yep
[23:17:34] <CaptHindsight> tjtr33: tired of the midwest or just the house?
[23:20:36] <tjtr33> yes :)
[23:21:22] <tjtr33> (tjtr33 practices inscrutable-ese )
[23:25:13] <CaptHindsight> I have to work on the low cost laser mic with 0.5m range +-5um accuracy
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[23:40:04] <joebog> CaptHindsight ?
[23:40:59] <CaptHindsight> joebog: I need a low cost non contact measuring device
[23:41:37] <joebog> Android program called tools ?
[23:41:37] <joebog> :D
[23:42:08] <joebog> also has inclinometer and distance measurement based on camera
[23:42:09] <joebog> :D
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[23:42:42] <joebog> http://s80.photobucket.com/user/amp_mangler/library/linuxcnc_fitting?sort=3&page=1
[23:43:02] <joebog> some pictures for you of the engraver and controller I was discussing previously
[23:43:03] <kwallace2> tjr33: Usually .xml files come up as XML text on a browser. My understanding is that XML can be used for different applications and is usually called by another file type to make use of the .xml file. In this case, the .xml files contain machine and not webpage information.
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[23:46:33] <CaptHindsight> joebog: looks like you'll need some larger stepper drives
[23:47:11] <joebog> it will only be for making small gun parts and engraving stocks and barrels etc
[23:47:20] <kwallace2> Are the stepper drivers in the Cipher case?
[23:47:27] <joebog> BUT maybe that will be
[23:47:31] <joebog> I dont know yet
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[23:47:45] <joebog> yep stepper drives are in the case
[23:48:22] <joebog> the present fit out is a total disaster !!!
[23:48:30] <joebog> cut and broken wires everywhere
[23:48:47] <joebog> PLUS the cheapest software for the Cipher is $1500
[23:48:53] <CaptHindsight> no worries
[23:48:53] <joebog> and thats JUST basic lettering
[23:49:22] <joebog> PLUS ya need the largest commercial virus available to run it
[23:49:34] <kwallace2> I'm thinking you'll need to open the Cipher and see where you can tap into the driver step/dir input.
[23:50:10] <joebog> kwallace I already bought a 5 channel controller and drive boards from cncgeeker.com
[23:50:36] <joebog> Im hoping they will get me started !! ??
[23:50:51] <CaptHindsight> if you can reuse the current stepper drivers and the ta8435's are too small then you might want to look at ...
[23:51:08] <CaptHindsight> can/can't
[23:51:14] <joebog> yeah I know
[23:51:24] <joebog> BUT I havent opened the cipher up yet
[23:51:28] <kwallace2> Why not reuse what is there?
[23:51:54] <joebog> depends whats in there !!!
[23:52:06] <CaptHindsight> it might be one big board
[23:52:24] <CaptHindsight> http://www.automationtechnologiesinc.com/products-page/kl-stepper-drivers
[23:52:28] <kwallace2> I assume it all worked well at one time (other than Windows of course).
[23:52:34] <joebog> I have in my head ( even though I havent looked) that the controller will be single board construction
[23:53:02] <jdh> I have in my head a winning lottery ticket
[23:53:07] <joebog> dont know kwallace !!! $3000 as is from fleabay
[23:54:46] <joebog> I can easily make my own circuit boards and design some drivers if need be
[23:55:23] <joebog> Im sort of trying to avoid that at present though, as the 5 channels I bought was a staggering $129 !!!
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[23:55:43] <joebog> costs me more than that to start my soldering iron !!
[23:56:49] <joebog> I will take some pics inside the controller today and post em on photobucket
[23:57:08] <joebog> Ill sort of be a bit of a pest to you guys for a while :)
[23:57:18] <joebog> hardware is my forte !!
[23:58:11] <joebog> BUT Ill need some help methinks with linuxcnc
[23:58:27] <kwallace2> The cncgeeker = 2.5AMP@36VDC max 90 watts, seems a little small considering vendors tend to be creative with their specs.
[23:58:53] <joebog> heh heh a bucket of liquid nitrogen ??? :D
[23:59:42] <joebog> its a very cheap solution to "suck it and see"
[23:59:59] <joebog> IF it proves feasable we can always enlarge
