#linuxcnc | Logs for 2013-08-28

[00:03:39] <JT-Shop> nope, but I need the van to haul my butt and the bicycle to the trail head
[00:03:56] <JT-Shop> goodnight
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[00:08:28] <RyanS> I'm going to make a tail stock cam lock. How do I work out how much offset the cam needs?
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[00:24:19] <Tom_itx> probably not alot, you can make it adjustable at any rate
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[00:35:26] <Tom_itx> http://bedair.org/9x20camlock/9x20camlock.html
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[01:24:07] <nspiel> so ive got my hal and ini both working now for my scara but im having a hard time setting the correct input and output scale
[01:27:15] <Tom_itx> that's a bit of progress in a day
[01:27:42] <nspiel> so when i move my arm. the encoders track it on the scara ui but the scale is totally wrong
[01:28:11] <Tom_itx> so nail down what the scale is for each axis
[01:28:37] <nspiel> right. thats what i am trying to do only thing is i dont know the count per revolution or gearing?
[01:28:45] <nspiel> is the only other way empirically?
[01:31:42] <nspiel> this robot is too old to find the joint distances and all of that stuff
[01:31:56] <nspiel> because no datasheets
[01:35:41] <nspiel> anyone have any ideas about scara calibration for the ini file?
[01:41:31] <Tom_itx> what model is it?
[01:47:15] <nspiel> its a scara ssr h414
[01:47:18] <nspiel> i mean epson
[01:53:43] <Tom_itx> have you tried contacting epson?
[01:55:18] <nspiel> yeah they were so mean... they just sent me a message saying they wouldnt send it to me because its over 10 years old and they dont service it
[01:55:37] <nspiel> they definately have the manuals they just wont give them out
[01:56:15] <Tom_itx> tell them you don't want them to service it
[01:56:56] <Tom_itx> i can't see that it would be that hard to measure the lengths of the axis
[01:57:33] <Tom_itx> like someone here mentioned, they're very likely gonna be common dimensions
[02:00:16] <nspiel> right. that shouldnt be a hard part but the input and output scaling in the ini will be super hard because the robot itself is a super accurate peice of hardware but its only as accurate as my scaling is
[02:01:03] <Tom_itx> better get it right then
[02:03:08] <nspiel> any suggestions on it? should i jsut scale it. measure output in lcnc, scale repeat?
[02:03:19] <Tom_itx> i would
[02:04:18] <nspiel> ok, and as for the lengths i wish i had calipers that big
[02:04:24] <nspiel> all i have is a measuring tape
[02:04:47] <jdh> get a dial indicator or two
[02:05:00] <jdh> even a cheap HF one would be better than nothing.
[02:05:03] <Tom_itx> it'll only be as accurate as you can measure
[02:05:10] <nspiel> yeah i know...
[02:05:47] <Tom_itx> i would imagine once you get close the numbers will start to make sense
[02:05:57] <nspiel> yeah thats what i am hoping for.
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[02:08:23] <Tom_itx> you get tired of it, feel free to send it to me
[02:08:40] <nspiel> the arm?
[02:08:48] <Tom_itx> :)
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[02:10:01] <jdh> I have a system with an Epson scara at work. It's been running for about 2 years with no problems.
[02:10:20] <nspiel> awesome, what do you use it for?
[02:10:52] <jdh> it engraves serial numbers on fuel rod end plugs
[02:15:22] <skunkworks> as in nuclear fuel rods?
[02:15:31] <jdh> yeah
[02:15:41] <nspiel> whoa awesome
[02:16:53] <Tecan> ”Those people who think they know everything are a great annoyance to those of us who do.”
[02:19:16] <jdh> I just ignore them
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[02:20:17] <nspiel> who was that comment in reference to
[02:20:37] <Tecan> was just reading a bunch of them found a smart one and posted here
[02:20:51] <nspiel> oh gotcha
[02:21:02] <jdh> don't take it personally :)
[02:21:48] <skunkworks> linux people are a bunch of snobs anyway..
[02:22:56] <skunkworks> ooh look at me - I have a realtime operating system...
[02:23:12] <Tom_itx> snob
[02:23:25] <skunkworks> ;)
[02:23:40] <jdh> I have two RT-11 systems.
[02:29:32] <nspiel> so i just realized but for some reason my z axis is inverted
[02:29:55] <jdh> de-invert
[02:30:55] <nspiel> where is that at
[02:31:11] <Tom_itx> take your pick
[02:31:15] <jdh> change the sign of the scale
[02:31:17] <Tom_itx> hardware or software
[02:31:23] <Tom_itx> software is easier
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[02:31:52] <nspiel> software
[02:32:08] <nspiel> i know to do it in hardware but i dont feel like unwiring it
[02:34:39] <CaptHindsight> my real is more real time than yours :)
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[02:36:13] <CaptHindsight> anyone else using the Vivado tools with Xilinx?
[02:39:54] <nspiel> tom how do you invert in software
[02:40:11] <nspiel> there are two inverts on the encoders in the hm2 part of the hal but i change them to true and no effect
[02:40:14] <jdh> change the sign of the scale
[02:40:30] <nspiel> in the ini? as in the input scale?
[02:40:45] <jdh> yes
[02:41:29] <Tom_itx> that's what i did on my stepper setup
[02:41:30] <nspiel> awesome thanks it worked
[02:41:42] <nspiel> im having trouble getting the scaling right still
[02:41:51] <nspiel> it seems like they are not mapped one to one as a multiplier
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[02:58:12] <nspiel> when the z goes down now its positive but its the correct orientation on the scara ui
[02:59:55] <jp_> jdh you make nuke fuel?
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[03:08:29] <nspiel> i got an error that said pyvcp does not exist?
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[03:34:29] <Chemeleon> I had one person email me and say linuxcnc prefers gcode files to end with % for the last line, is that true?
[03:44:02] <nspiel> im kinda at a loss to determine the input scale
[03:58:32] <jesseg> nspiel, I may be able to help
[03:59:34] <jesseg> if you're still looking
[04:05:22] <jesseg> If possible, attach a small mirror to the output of your motor before any gearing, then use a laser pointer in the mirror, and shoot the reflected beam across the room onto a line on the wall.
[04:06:12] <jesseg> or better yet, set up a rifle scope on a solid mount and focus it (through the mirror) to a point on a distant wall.
[04:06:31] <jesseg> Then see how many counts/steps takes it a full turn
[04:08:29] <jesseg> Once you figure out an estimate for the number of steps per turn, then step the motor that many steps, and see if the laser lands in the same spot. Then step that many again, and keep doing that. Every time it turns, it should line up perfectly.
[04:08:49] <jesseg> If it's off even one step, that'll add up eventually. (You might have to disconnect from lead screw?)
[04:09:00] <nspiel> thats interesting
[04:09:40] <nspiel> i can scope the output to get counts per revolution but i ned to know the gearing
[04:09:51] <nspiel> its angular
[04:09:54] <jesseg> For example, even if you have a large number of steps per turn, even if you off only one step, after a thousand turns, you'll be a thousand steps off - and I bet you will notice that
[04:10:02] <nspiel> yeah true
[04:10:21] <jesseg> I don't know what a scara is - this is just general stuff
[04:10:47] <jesseg> oh I see.. I googled
[04:11:32] <jesseg> So for the gear ratios, just count the teeth and there is no guesswork at all then
[04:13:07] <nspiel> the teeth arent exposed only just on the output
[04:13:28] <nspiel> but not even on one
[04:13:31] <jesseg> No way to dissassemble for cleaning and greasing - and count teeth?
[04:14:24] <jesseg> Well, any axis that can rotate around and around any number of turns you can do the same as I described above, but I doubt the axis are that way on these
[04:14:34] <jesseg> since they have control wires going to motors
[04:15:01] <nspiel> i can get encoder counts per half revolution but the gearing is going to be really hard
[04:15:18] <jesseg> Do the axis all move 181 degrees?
[04:15:28] <nspiel> no
[04:15:35] <nspiel> they are limited with kill switchs
[04:15:35] <jesseg> half revolution of what - the motors?
[04:15:45] <nspiel> one moves more
[04:15:45] <jesseg> oh, at less than 180 degrees
[04:15:48] <jesseg> oh
[04:15:56] <nspiel> one also moves more
[04:16:13] <nspiel> but i can use a perfect square and get 180
[04:16:23] <nspiel> because the cast body is straight
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[04:16:36] <jesseg> if one moves 181 degrees, then fasten a double sided mirror (like taken from photocopier or scanner) and do the laser beam thing, and when it's rotated exactly 180 degrees it'll line up
[04:16:54] <jesseg> All the geared angular axis are probably the same ratio
[04:17:17] <nspiel> hmm
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[04:17:44] <nspiel> how will u be able to tell gear ratio from that
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[04:18:25] <jesseg> Well, you would jog the motor around and around until the output axis had finally rotated exactly half a turn, due to the other side of the mirror shooting the laser beam in same place as first side
[04:18:37] <jesseg> then you notice how many turns the motor has taken in order to move the output 180 degrees
[04:18:39] <jesseg> and that's your ratio
[04:19:07] <nspiel> thats a good idea. how do you know how many turns the motor has gone through though
[04:19:13] <jesseg> Is there any way you could modify just one of the axes so that it had unlimitted rotation?
[04:19:14] <nspiel> from the encoder ticks?
[04:19:18] <jesseg> yes
[04:19:20] <nspiel> counting encoder ticks?
[04:19:25] <jesseg> yup
[04:19:35] <nspiel> oh ok thats a really good idea
[04:19:49] <nspiel> not really i would have to take it all apart and i dont really want to do that
[04:19:53] <jesseg> Ultimately, all you really care about anyway is how many encoder counts it takes per degree of final output
[04:20:02] <nspiel> right
[04:20:38] <jesseg> so you could even set the SCALE = 1 at first. Then degrees would equal encoder counts.
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[04:21:04] <nspiel> wait but how do u know how many encoder tics there are per revolution of the motor
[04:21:12] <jesseg> Then just use the jog feature to move the output axis exactly half a turn, and then look at the degrees reading for that axis in LinuxEMC - and that'll be the number of ticks per half-output-turn
[04:21:17] <nspiel> i was just counting per revolution of the output
[04:21:57] <jesseg> Well, if you were able to count gear teeth to get ratio, then getting encoder count is helpful. That's why I suggested the mirror and multiple turns and the laser.
[04:22:34] <jesseg> But since you don't want to dissassembly for counting, then you don't care about encoder counts on the motor, you only care about how many counts on the final output
[04:22:43] <nspiel> the gear teeth arent exposed though
[04:22:51] <jesseg> All gear boxes come apart :D
[04:22:56] <jesseg> But that is work. :)
[04:23:08] <nspiel> so i can just gage x counts per 180 degrees of output
[04:23:16] <nspiel> yeah thatis work haha
[04:23:16] <jesseg> exactly
[04:23:24] <nspiel> and is that my scale then?
[04:23:26] <jesseg> yes
[04:23:43] <jesseg> in the ini file, scale is the counts per degree (or counts per inch, for linear axis.)
[04:23:46] <nspiel> so if i get 1000 tics per 180 deg output what is my input scale
[04:23:58] <jesseg> 1000/180
[04:24:24] <jesseg> 5.55555555555555555555
[04:24:39] <nspiel> oh ok awesome so one last question is it counts/mm if im in mm
[04:25:11] <jesseg> If LinuxCNC is set to MM then I would say it was counts/mm
[04:25:24] <jesseg> but degrees is degrees, I guess there's no metric angular measurement that I know of :P
[04:25:25] <nspiel> ok thank you!
[04:25:48] <jesseg> No problem. I hope it helps. I have only a little experience with LinuxCNC specifically
[04:26:00] <jesseg> But I have set one up
[04:26:32] <nspiel> i also need to figure out how to get the joint distances accurately since this thing is too old to have a datasheet
[04:27:12] <jesseg> To be honest, I'm not sure you'll get it exactly right with only half a turn of range to measure on the output. If you have 100 counts per degree, you may have trouble determining which count is right, but try and see.
[04:27:42] <nspiel> its almost the full range
[04:27:50] <nspiel> full range is prob 200 or so
[04:27:57] <jesseg> 200 what?
[04:28:03] <nspiel> degrees
[04:28:07] <jesseg> Ahh
[04:28:17] <nspiel> look up epson ssr h414
[04:29:21] <jesseg> Well, if a single step is too small to determine with the laser or scope, (Hmm. You could also just mount the scope on the arm!) anyway if a single step is too small to discern, the only way to know for sure you have it exactly is to rotate the axis many times to see if any error creeps in
[04:31:16] <jesseg> To measure arm length, I would get one of those little USB microscope cameras and mount it on the arm. Get the software running on a PC, and put a little sticker or some crosshairs signifier on the computer screen. Then put a ruler down, or some other standard distance measuring, and use the microscope like a crosshairs to perfectly line up to one mark by jogging, then swing the axis over to another inch or CM mark or whatever, and zero it in and find ou
[04:31:16] <jesseg> t how many degrees is between two points of a known distance, then work it backwards from there
[04:31:51] <jesseg> cute! (just looked it up)
[04:33:40] <jesseg> Hmm, it looks like the gear boxes are different for the two axis
[04:33:43] <jesseg> axes
[04:37:01] <jesseg> You could also put a pen in its hand and have it draw an arc, then measure the arc's diameter :P
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[04:42:53] <jesseg> Oh, you couldn't mount the rifle scope on the axis since it'd have to turn 360 for that. You'd need a double sided mirror.
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[04:55:26] <Jymmm> pcw_home: I ordered both and they are on their way =)
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[05:06:18] <nspiel> oh! the arc idea is a good one
[05:10:30] <jesseg> you wouldn't even have to draw it on one piece of paper if you don't have big enough paper. Just securely tape down two sheets on the table - one on each side of the arc
[05:10:34] <jesseg> Cya all later
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[06:49:24] <DJ9DJ> moin
[06:49:43] <archivist> moan
[06:52:14] <DJ9DJ> moin
[06:52:38] <DJ9DJ> hi there :)
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[06:59:01] <Loetmichel> mornin#
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[09:54:29] <jthornton> morning
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[10:13:27] <Tom_itx> morning it is
[10:13:36] <kengu> afternoon
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[10:25:02] <DJ9DJ> middle of the day it is ;) lunch time :)
[10:25:19] <DJ9DJ> high noon? ;)
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[10:34:42] <spawn_> hey guys, i wonder if any of you guys know about contactors, im looking for a way to wire start/stop system for a bigass mill with a 4hp motor, the motor is rated to 5.8 F.L.Amps
[10:35:25] <spawn_> im going to run the machine from an inverter, so im wondering what size contactor to get
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[10:40:20] <Alver> ... huh.
[10:40:27] <Alver> I thought I had joined #emc.
[10:40:42] <Alver> Guess that means something else on freenode than I expected. :)
[10:41:05] <jthornton> this is/was emc
[10:41:26] <Alver> Yes, but I was hoping to reach a channel for EMC, the SAN storage vendor. ;)
[10:41:35] <jthornton> nope
[10:41:46] <Alver> Righty-o. Time for me to move on then. Thanks.
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[10:51:03] <archivist> spawn_, I imagine a motor rated contactor at that FL current would be ok, as the real starting effort is coming from the inverter
[10:52:03] <archivist> the capacitor inrush at switch on is the hard bit
[10:53:40] <jdh> 4hp and 5.8 amps?
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[10:55:58] <archivist> 3 phase 440v I bet
[10:57:22] <jdh> still not enough
[10:59:14] <archivist> http://www.lostock-electrical.co.uk/html/motor_rating.html ish
[10:59:51] <archivist> someone is rounding something
[11:00:21] <archivist> that table has obvious rounding too
[11:02:13] <jdh> perhaps they are chinese HP
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[11:07:50] <archivist> power factor
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[11:24:49] <spawn_> jdh: 5.8 Full Load Amps
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[11:25:38] <spawn_> doesnt really tell me what the peaks are
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[11:26:19] <spawn_> http://thirdforces.internationalconspiracy.org/13/mill/mill_motor_plate.JPG
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[12:04:08] <archivist> good old british motor
[12:08:02] <archivist> spawn_, interesting numbers on the plate as they dont work out, I wonder if they took power factor into account
[12:09:13] <archivist> spawn_, but a 8A motor rated contactor should be ok
[12:11:00] <archivist> the motor rating means the contacts and overload capabilities are in the contactor
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[13:07:59] <DJ9DJ> tag
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[14:09:28] <archivist> any maths geeks? see eq 2 here http://www.collection.archivist.info/archive/DJC/BK/BK2875/page_0025.jpg is ARC an error and should be arctan ?
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[14:16:45] <TekniQue> I can tell you it's certainly not arctan
[14:18:24] <TekniQue> or well, I don't think it makes sense to subtract a ratio from the radians
[14:18:53] <TekniQue> you don't generally apply tan and arctan to the same quantity
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[14:20:09] <cradek> I agree that doesn't make any sense
[14:20:12] <TekniQue> the arcus functions are the inverse trig functions
[14:20:30] <TekniQue> so they convert back to the angle
[14:20:49] <cradek> I suspect it's related to "arc tooth thickness" in the middle of the page, but it's not explained
[14:21:06] <cradek> is there more surrounding text?
[14:22:12] <archivist> that art tooth thickness I am guessing at 50% mid tooth
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[14:23:54] <jdh> Pete: sold your house?
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[14:24:31] <archivist> this book is tabular in style, that is the start of the meat after a few definitions
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[14:29:01] <archivist> TekniQue, cradek I just understood that second =inv angle, that refers to the tables in the other book
[14:33:44] <cradek> (6) is the arc length identity (arc length = angle * radius)
[14:34:31] <cradek> beta has to be in radians for this to work, but the arc length is a length, not an angle, so I don't get what they mean by (RADIANS) in (6)
[14:36:02] <cradek> they say at the end .2618/5.000 is .05236 RADIANS, but that is incorrect because those are both distances
[14:36:09] <JT-Shop> http://imagebin.org/269005
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[14:37:10] <cradek> so something's confused and I don't think it's us
[14:37:14] <archivist> cradek start of the tables also has the inv equation http://www.collection.archivist.info/archive/DJC/BK/BK2874/page_0131.jpg
[14:37:41] * archivist is shocked at that image :)
[14:37:48] <jdh> heh... is that you?
[14:37:51] <cradek> archivist: that page is blank...?
[14:38:18] <JT-Shop> yea, what a look I had
[14:38:31] <JT-Shop> no wonder no one talks to me
[14:39:10] <cradek> http://24.media.tumblr.com/3a6cf8bfb49770bbaa06b8dd9a12bc91/tumblr_mrzl77dJte1qan69no1_500.jpg
[14:39:15] <jdh> we coudl buy you a razor
[14:39:24] <archivist> beards++
[14:39:48] <jdh> guess the beard fits with the unix part.
[14:39:55] <JT-Shop> I have one but don't know what it is for
[14:40:02] <cradek> I bet we're all in trouble if beards are bad
[14:40:11] <archivist> cradek, try again fixed it
[14:40:18] <JT-Shop> that's all that grows on my face
[14:40:20] <jdh> I ordered an internette bike the other day. Should be here tomorrow.
[14:40:31] <JT-Shop> what kind
[14:40:46] <jdh> bikesdirect 'windsor rover 3'
[14:40:47] <JT-Shop> that was mile 10 this morning, 5 from the end
[14:40:55] <jdh> cool
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[14:41:10] <JT-Shop> have to go out at dawn to beat the heat
[14:41:57] <JT-Shop> nice bike
[14:42:36] <JT-Shop> I would like a suspension seat post on mine some parts of the trail are rough
[14:42:48] <jdh> hope so. I tried to buy one locally, but being a snobby asshole seems to be a requirement for working at a bike store.
[14:43:36] <JT-Shop> metric tires like a road bike
[14:43:59] <jdh> unless you just call them 29"
[14:44:16] <jdh> they had pretty much the same bike with 26" also
[14:44:24] <jdh> hope it fits
[14:44:42] <JT-Shop> 700 is 27.559"
[14:45:12] <jdh> yeah, but the rim is really 660?
[14:45:38] <JT-Shop> dunno, I only have a mountian bike
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[14:50:05] <archivist> cradek, I think I just found the joining clue in http://www.collection.archivist.info/archive/mirror/gleason/gear_basics.pdf
[14:50:37] <JT-Shop> this one http://www.giant-bicycles.com/en-us/bikes/model/revel.2/14843/66236/
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[15:00:12] <pcw_home> Well thats disappointing, I expected a 30 foot tall bicycle...
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[15:04:21] <JT-Shop> that would be tough to ride out on that trail
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[15:08:53] <jdh> JT: that seat looks painful for a trail
[15:10:20] <JT-Shop> that one lasted one day...
[15:10:25] <PetefromTn> jdh: Sorry for the delays man I was out in the shop ripping up some more prefiinished plywood. In answer to your query no I have not sold my house just yet. I just put it up for sale about a week ago. At least it went in the real estate papers the last few days. Just got the sign up in front less than a week ago but it will probably take some time in the market today.
[15:10:54] <jdh> Pete: ones that sell here usually go fast.
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[15:11:10] <PetefromTn> Well here's hopin' LOL..
[15:11:32] <jdh> I bet mortgage interest rates will spike after the next Fed.Gov spending standoff
[15:12:01] <PetefromTn> yeah I am sure... Always getting the shaft one way or another...
[15:12:13] <JT-Shop> a bell comfort seat lasted about 3 rides till it broke
[15:12:48] <PetefromTn> I had to laugh there is a real estate commercial they run on TV all the time lately and they basically say that there is a shortage of homes for sale....YEAH RIGHT!!
[15:14:19] <PetefromTn> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kWBhP0EQ1lA !!!!!!
[15:14:20] <Tecan> (kWBhP0EQ1lA) "GEICO Hump Day Camel Commercial - Happier than a Camel on Wednesday" by "GEICO Insurance" is "Entertainment" - Length: 0:00:31
[15:15:37] <JT-Shop> I finally found this one and it is a keeper https://www.serfas.com/products/view/196/referer:products%7Cindex_riding_style%7C75%7C1%7Cpage:3
[15:16:07] <CaptHindsight> if it's on TV it must be true, and if it wasn't on TV it didn't happen
[15:17:00] <PetefromTn> LOL
[15:17:19] <PetefromTn> You can keep all those crotch killer seats. I
[15:17:36] <PetefromTn> I'll stick with my recumbent.
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[15:18:34] <JT-Shop> I'd like to see that on the trails I ride on
[15:18:44] <jdh> I've never seen a recumbent here, only in FL. I'm pretty sure you would get run over on one here.
[15:18:59] <CaptHindsight> how fast do dental dills spin?
[15:19:23] <CaptHindsight> http://phys.org/news/2013-08-fastest-rotating-man-made.html
[15:19:32] <JT-Shop> 30,000-100,000
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[15:20:08] <PetefromTn> There's TONS of recumbents here..
[15:20:31] <PetefromTn> They ride in the Smoky mountains national park all the time..as do I.
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[15:32:23] <JT-Shop> we were in Maggie Valley a while back and the temperature was nice
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[15:36:41] <PetefromTn> Thats not terribly far from me. My house is about fifteen minutes from the famous Tail of the dragon on the Tn/NC border.
[15:37:17] <PetefromTn> I live about thirty minutes from Gatlinburgh/ Pidgeon forge area.
[15:38:07] <PetefromTn> The Foothillls parkway lookout we can see from our front windows.
[15:38:08] <JT-Shop> some nice views out there
[15:38:32] <PetefromTn> Yup sure is. We picnic in Cades Cove often.
[15:39:26] <jdh> we had friends with cabins in elkmont we used to stay in all the time. Guess they are all gone now.
[15:40:44] <PetefromTn> We went to Elkmont this past summer and camped out and want to go this year but our tent is getting kinda leaky..LOL
[15:41:19] <jdh> are the cabins still there?
[15:41:24] <PetefromTn> I need to get a decent tent.
[15:42:32] <PetefromTn> Honestly I dunno we were in the primitive campground area and other than the buildings used for the campground staff I do not remmeber seeing any rental cabins.
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[15:43:29] <PetefromTn> We really enjoyed playing in the streams and climbing on rocks etc.
[15:43:41] <jdh> they werent' rentals. They were privately owned.
[15:43:50] <PetefromTn> It is a very nice campground probably the best around here.
[15:44:23] <jdh> the park took them back in the 80's I think. Odd little private enclave in the park.
[15:44:33] <PetefromTn> Oh then I don't know. As far as I can recall the last people who actually had property in the park have since donated it to the National Park system and nobody lives there.
[15:45:09] <jdh> http://littlevalleymountainresort.com/great-smoky-mountains/elkmont
[15:45:18] <jdh> really cool place
[15:46:20] <jdh> I'm heading to florida in 15 mins, I'll say to to the Welcome sign for you.
[15:47:29] <PetefromTn> Nice.... We are heading down for a family reunion sometime in the holiday season?
[15:48:52] <PetefromTn> Not sure when exactly yet.
[15:49:26] <jdh> I'll go back the fri-tue before thanksgiving and the week between xmas and new years
[15:49:35] <PetefromTn> What are you gonna be going down there for?
[15:49:41] <jdh> diving
[15:49:53] <PetefromTn> Aah, Good diving there thats for sure..
[15:49:58] <PetefromTn> Drift?
[15:50:06] <jdh> forecast here is too iffy or I'd stay and dive here.
[15:50:15] <jdh> nah, caves in central fl.
[15:50:32] <jdh> I can be in High Springs, FL in under 8 hrs.
[15:50:37] <PetefromTn> huh.. Not a cave diver, too damn dangerous.
[15:50:57] <jdh> drivign on I95 on labor day weekend is more dangerous
[15:51:23] <PetefromTn> Yeah I know but it is still pretty dangerous...I95 is just crazy is all. LOL
[15:52:07] <PetefromTn> Where you located again?
[15:52:33] <jdh> wilmington, nc. Head east on I40, turn left right before you hit the ocean.
[15:52:53] <PetefromTn> Okay.
[15:53:22] <PetefromTn> Still not sure what the plan is for the machine if we do sell the house. Kinda up in the air.
[15:55:23] <PetefromTn> Well good luck cave diving and have a good time. Be careful man. Gotta get some more work done here. Peace
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[16:07:24] <Tecan> http://phys.org/news/2013-08-fastest-rotating-man-made.html
[16:07:30] <Tecan> 600 million rpm
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[16:12:07] <CaptHindsight> whats the feed rate for that RPM? :)
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[16:25:59] <AR_> getting closer http://i.imgur.com/kNbBL5Mh.jpg
[16:29:51] <JT-Shop> I know what that is
[16:30:15] <JT-Shop> milling it from a castng?
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[16:33:22] <syyl_ws> i know it too!
[16:33:28] <syyl_ws> a can opener?
[16:33:54] <pcw_home> CaptHindsight: not very high, as cutting edge speed is only ~125 mm/s
[16:33:56] <JT-Shop> works for that too
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[16:34:53] <skunkworks> pcw_home, has anyone created a gui for your motion firmware?
[16:36:10] <pcw_home> Some proprietary ones yes
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[16:37:05] <skunkworks> ie - http://www.cnczone.com/forums/controller_cards/191678-suggestions_interface_sanyo-denki_stepper_drives.html
[16:38:08] <skunkworks> pretty sure that is the guy on the mailing list...
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[16:41:05] <pcw_home> I should mention that he can get encoder feedback with a different daughtercard setup
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[16:41:38] <pcw_home> (7I85S/7I84 instead of 7I76)
[16:41:42] <cradek> I can't imagine waiting on doing an actual retrofit and then being forced into using bleeding edge software in order to avoid a thick cable in favor of a thin one
[16:43:13] <CaptHindsight> pcw_home: any opinion on the Xilinx Vivado Suite?
[16:43:18] <pcw_home> Yeah I would use stuff thats been around long enough to shake out most of the bugs
[16:43:44] <pcw_home> I haven tried Vivado so dont know
[16:44:31] <CaptHindsight> I'm giving it a try on Linux
[16:44:36] <andypugh> I guess you are talking about the 7i80? I think it is currently in the "can only get better" category.
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[16:45:06] <pcw_home> We have some people that are using it
[16:45:28] <pcw_home> (with linuxCNC!)
[16:46:46] <andypugh> If I was doing a retrofit it would be first choice. But not if I was going to _sell_ the machine.
[16:48:33] <pcw_home> I really wonder if rt-preemt might not be a better platform for Ethernet interfaced I/O
[16:50:04] <CaptHindsight> depending on the rt-preempt kernel and hardware
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[16:50:22] <CaptHindsight> and what kind of latency you expect
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[16:51:09] <pcw_home> not terribly important, 100 usec would be OK
[16:52:33] <pcw_home> I expect all critical timing will be done in hardware so latency is only a max bandwidth cap
[16:53:42] <pcw_home> And I dont expect > maybe 4 KHz abs max servo thread rate
[16:53:53] <CaptHindsight> lets see how well rt-preempt works out
[16:55:03] <pcw_home> It has the great advantage than almost any Ethernet MAC is supported
[16:56:30] <pcw_home> (though some may be better latency wise)
[16:57:28] <CaptHindsight> FIFO's, best friend or enemy or real time over IP?
[16:57:44] <CaptHindsight> or/for
[16:58:38] <pcw_home> For our uses FIFOs are no help
[16:58:51] <CaptHindsight> lots of work went into this for building low cost clusters
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[16:59:36] <IchGuckLive> hi all B)
[17:00:08] <pcw_home> I like the Netmap interface (and it might be OK under rt-preemt) but its also only supports a few MACs
[17:00:11] <CaptHindsight> pcw_home: are the specs to write drivers for your boards out there?
[17:00:29] <pcw_home> its trivial (and in the manual)
[17:00:36] <CaptHindsight> great
[17:01:19] <pcw_home> the Ethernet card are just UDP slaves (send read/write data commands, read data returned)
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[17:03:36] <pcw_home> I am busy getting the DPLL logic ported to hostmot2 so Ethernet timing issues can be addressed
[17:03:38] <pcw_home> (and other things like SSI/BISS/Fanuc encoders can start their read cycle before the servo thread invocation)
[17:11:58] <andypugh> pcw_home: What does happen if you turn a multi-turn SSI encoder backwards from zero?
[17:12:53] <pcw_home> a 24 bit one goes from 0x000000 to 0xFFFFFF
[17:13:10] <pcw_home> (-1)
[17:13:59] <andypugh> So they do effectively use 2s complement?
[17:14:29] <pcw_home> 2 complement is just an interpretation
[17:15:27] <andypugh> Well, yes, but the bit patterns are the same.
[17:15:35] <pcw_home> its a straight binary count, you can look at its as 2s complement or unsigned, its up to you
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[17:16:49] <pcw_home> the Fanuc encoders have separate turns and count/turn fields (but still straight binary)
[17:16:56] <pcw_home> bbl
[17:18:31] <andypugh> I though this would be easy, it looks like it might not be.
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[17:55:10] <false> good evening (in some places)
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[18:09:04] <andypugh> Good evening
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[18:09:35] <archivist> evening is true
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[18:11:08] <JT-Shop> afternoon here
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[18:41:23] <andypugh> I just tried to change my own uid from root to make network shares easier. And I got it wrong. Looks like that VM needs to be nuked and remade :-) (I changed the uid of root and daemon too)
[18:42:00] <cradek> why not undo what you did?
[18:42:52] <andypugh> Because I killed sudo :-)
[18:44:09] <andypugh> I recursively chowned everything, and now sudo doesn't work and root can't even log in. It was only a VM so it is no big deal.
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[18:44:32] <cradek> you should snapshot before you do crazy things
[18:44:50] <andypugh> Yes, that would have been extremely sensible :-)
[18:44:56] <cradek> if you know what you did, you could surely still put it back - boot single user, or boot from media
[18:45:16] <andypugh> It's hard to figure out who _should_ own what after the fact
[18:45:33] <cradek> oh you chowned everything on the system to one user?
[18:45:58] <cradek> I thought you were saying you changed one uid to another uid
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[18:46:02] <Loetmichel> andypugh: i just wanted to say that, too. boot from a linux live cd image, "re-chown", done ;-)
[18:46:27] <ReadError> just single the box
[18:46:46] <andypugh> cradek: Yes
[18:46:58] <cradek> oh then reinstall
[18:47:03] <cradek> that was a very crazy thing to do
[18:47:18] <ReadError> andypugh, some idiot the other day, decided to edit /etc/passwd with a windows text editor
[18:47:22] <ReadError> ommmgggg
[18:47:29] <ReadError> every line ended with ^M
[18:47:32] <Loetmichel> ReadError: HARHAR
[18:47:34] <Loetmichel> why?
[18:47:38] <ReadError> idk man
[18:47:42] <andypugh> Well, the idea of synching my UID across all machines isn't inherently stupid
[18:47:44] <ReadError> people do stupid things
[18:47:55] <cradek> I like to edit /etc/passwd in microsuft word
[18:48:00] <Loetmichel> i meant: why someone wants to EDIT passwd?
[18:48:05] <ReadError> cradek, lol
[18:48:16] <cradek> no, that's perfectly sane, and you should ideally use NIS to accomplish it
[18:48:21] <ReadError> it was funny like, /var/log/secure was like wtf /bin/bash\r not found
[18:51:21] <skunkworks> well - after 3 tries - I finally have windows 7 - ubuntu 12.04 booting on this laptop... Ended up being a corrupt GPT - I used gparted to create a new partision table
[18:54:40] <cradek> ugh why do you punish yourself?
[18:55:35] <cradek> I borrowed a windows laptop from work a couple weeks ago. every time I wanted to shut it down and put it away, it made me wait for a half hour while it installed updates I didn't ask for. so obnoxious.
[18:56:00] <cradek> apparently it can't just install them while it's running like our linux systems do
[18:56:37] <skunkworks> heh
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[18:57:25] <cradek> of course then when I turned it back on, it would do more installing, and then reboot some more
[18:57:31] <skunkworks> I do enough stuff in windows land that it is nice to have a native install
[18:57:33] <cradek> it spent more time doing what it wanted than what I wanted
[18:59:04] <skunkworks> To be fair - that doesn't happen too often... I bet that laptop hadn't been used for a while.
[18:59:39] <cradek> yeah it was pulled off a junk pile
[18:59:42] <skunkworks> oops - I mean - 'Windows sucks man'
[18:59:50] <skunkworks> ;)
[19:00:05] <cradek> but it honestly happened each of the four times I shut it down, while I had it
[19:00:13] <cradek> do they settle down after a while?
[19:00:21] <skunkworks> yes
[19:00:32] <Loetmichel> cradek: you CAN install the update while running
[19:00:37] <Loetmichel> just a config thing
[19:00:56] <cradek> Loetmichel: I guess it defaults to obnoxious
[19:01:06] <Loetmichel> you can even shurdown NOT installing the updates if oyu wish to
[19:01:28] <Loetmichel> just have to hold shift(?) while clicking Shutdown
[19:03:13] <Loetmichel> and btw: the xubunti on the company laptop had used nearly tha whole day today to upgrade from 12.04 to 13.04. Including a few reboots.
[19:03:16] <cradek> ah, hiding things is great UI
[19:03:33] <cradek> ... after you asked it to, right?
[19:03:46] <Loetmichel> ... granted, i booted it to xubuntu about half a year ago the last time
[19:04:36] <Loetmichel> after i clicked "yes, upgrade now" to the "annoy-window" whcih pops up after boot
[19:05:15] <Loetmichel> and also granted: our company internet line is at 2Mbit for a ~10 ppl company NOT the biggest one ;-)
[19:05:40] <cradek> heh you can turn that off - it's an option
[19:05:50] <cradek> ah you mean it took all day to download and update
[19:05:56] <Loetmichel> right
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[19:08:25] <Loetmichel> but you are right
[19:08:46] <Loetmichel> have upgraded some internet boxes to new ones wiht win7pro a while ago...
[19:09:22] <Loetmichel> install... 1,5 hr... then about 3 days unusable internet until ALL updates were done on these 2 machines ;-)
[19:09:52] <false> Nice, leave it to MS to cripple a pc at will
[19:10:13] <Loetmichel> the PCs were usable
[19:10:21] <cradek> you can upgrade windows OS over the internet? I figured you always had to buy the new version on paper tape or floppy or something.
[19:10:33] <Loetmichel> just the internet was "a bit slow" for the rest of the company ;-)
[19:10:40] <false> :P
[19:10:47] <cradek> otherwise how do you pay the ransom for the new version?
[19:11:36] <Loetmichel> cradek: you pay for these small stickers with these sillly character combinations in 5 blocks on them ;-)
[19:11:46] <Loetmichel> or buy the key online
[19:11:50] <cradek> aha
[19:12:10] <Loetmichel> the days of "only with a physical medium" are done
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[19:12:21] <Loetmichel> you can download any install iso at microsoft
[19:12:36] <Loetmichel> no need to "pirate" the CDs any longer
[19:12:45] <Loetmichel> s/cds/dvds
[19:16:33] <andypugh> I seem to be pretty much OS-agnostic. I even quite like Unity
[19:16:39] * Loetmichel is a bit pissed at the moment. wife has forced me to pull a bid on ebay... "we have no mony for that kind of toys. the dishwahser is broken, the IRO wants some taxes and i want to fly on holidays next month..."
[19:17:18] <false> That's what you get for marrying :P
[19:17:28] <andypugh> What was the thing? Was it potentially useful for fixing dishwashers?
[19:17:30] <cradek> no, that's what you get for not fixing the dishwasher
[19:17:38] <false> true
[19:18:14] <false> < != :P
[19:18:42] <Loetmichel> http://www.ebay.de/itm/111148892501
[19:19:09] <false> You could use it to go and buy items to fix dishwashers?
[19:19:17] <false> Looks sweet
[19:20:07] <Loetmichel> the joke is: that was intended to carry HER around so we can both go for a bit of "cruising", me with the motorcycle she with the buggy
[19:20:37] <Loetmichel> (and for me getting some fun in a mud hole sometimes, i admit)
[19:21:18] <Loetmichel> because she doesnt want to wear a helmet and has a bad hip, so cant sit long on a motorcycle
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[19:24:11] <Loetmichel> s/long on a motorcycle/on a motorcycle for a long time
[19:31:11] <false> cradek: got the x axis tuned I thinked but stopped after discovering my guideways weren't getting any oil anymore, turns out the whole system was clogged up, still cleaning.
[19:31:47] <cradek> I think I remember your plot. what was the major problem?
[19:31:55] <cradek> metering nozzles are a right pain
[19:33:36] <false> jup, impossible to clean, we have to order new ones, problem is the tubes are also clogged and those aren't supposed to be easy accessable I think.
[19:34:59] <false> We might need to take the bed and the Z off to access all of them :$
[19:35:14] <cradek> I actually unplugged all my metering nozzles with a grease zerk refurb tool with a homemade thread adapter to hook it up. filled with, uh, liquid wrench? whatever that kerosene+oil solvent stuff is called
[19:35:36] <cradek> I'd try to use the same thing to blow out the lines - bet it would work
[19:36:10] <false> Tried the stuff you mean, no joy, the oil is like stone, literally
[19:36:28] <false> It's hard to remove even with a screwdriver
[19:36:31] <cradek> yeah it's the hydraulics and the hammer that does the clearing
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[19:37:35] <false> what's a "grease zerk refrub tool"??
[19:37:49] <cradek> something like this (mine was not this brand) http://www.zerkzapper.com/tool--accessory-descriptions.html
[19:38:07] <cradek> it's a syringe made out of metal and you hook it up and whack it with a hammer
[19:38:29] <cradek> brb
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[19:39:42] <false> Never seen one of those, it like a hydraulic hammer?
[19:41:20] * JT-Shop likes rigid tapping now with the hep of Rigid Tap 0.3.3
[19:41:43] <false> We tried ultrasonic, diesel, gasoline, brake cleaner, the liquid wrench stuff, heavy duty solvent (stuff you can't handle without gloves)
[19:45:37] <false> I'll go and get a zapper, maybe the solution to the clogged pipes. We already replaced 80% of the tubes, but the last 20% is a pain, some of them just go into the steel and are impossible to get out. You can feel them move but the stop at some point, already broke one of them :@. Probably assembled before the machine is put together.
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[19:49:10] <false> brb
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[19:56:22] <cradek> mine might've come from harbor freight, I don't remember
[19:56:35] <cradek> you might also try a regular grease gun
[19:56:44] <cradek> IF you're sure you have the nozzles out
[19:57:15] <andypugh> Diesel injection pump. 2000 bar should do it :-)
[19:57:51] <cradek> no way to bleed it, I bet (that's why I suggest a grease gun over the zapper because it can just keep pumping)
[19:58:02] <archivist> managed to get an old manual test pump at the scrap yard
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[19:58:36] <andypugh> I wasn't being 100% serious, 2000 bar is properly dangerous.
[19:59:13] <cradek> how do you think I should arrange for 1-2 psig for testing/rebuilding parts of a gas range?
[19:59:19] <archivist> the pump on one of the body jacking toys is also usable
[19:59:39] <archivist> manometer
[20:00:01] <archivist> old fashioned two glass tubes
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[20:00:25] <andypugh> I would say manometer to measure, and regulator to meter.
[20:00:50] <cradek> hmm yeah, bet that's in "inches of water" territory
[20:01:00] <archivist> mercury!
[20:01:01] <andypugh> It might be easiest just to use the gas meter as the source.
[20:01:42] <cradek> yeah I've considered that too. if I get it right in the first few tries it'd be fine
[20:02:00] <andypugh> The risk of explosive and fiery death is quite low if you keep the area ventiated.
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[20:02:56] <false> and we're back
[20:03:06] <JT-Shop> propane or NG pressure you use a manometer
[20:03:24] <JT-Shop> they are cheap at a AC supplier
[20:03:25] <cradek> false: you might also try a regular grease gun IF you are sure you have the metering nozzles out
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[20:03:41] <cradek> thanks for the ideas
[20:04:26] <false> we had 12atm air on it, no go, maybe going hydraulic will help us
[20:04:54] <andypugh> 12atm is not very much.
[20:05:01] <cradek> I bet air really won't work
[20:05:21] <false> some of them opened up, but those were the easy access ones of course :P
[20:05:27] <cradek> haha of course
[20:05:57] <andypugh> I was talking to a famous truck mechanic a couple of weeks ago and he reckoned that Scania are using 6000 bar injection pressure.
[20:06:32] <archivist> methinks that is a tad bollocks
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[20:07:04] <andypugh> Hmm?
[20:07:12] <false> Normal common rail uses over a 1000 so maybe it's a little true
[20:07:39] <andypugh> They use conventional common-rail at 2000 bar to prime unit-injectors.
[20:07:42] <archivist> seems rather over the top
[20:08:23] <false> Scania doesn't you anything half *sed
[20:08:35] <andypugh> It takes 2000 bar to get the fuel into a 2-litre engine at 5000rpm. I can imagine it takes rather more to get the right amount of fuel into a 10-litre engine, even at half the revs
[20:09:02] <false> using bigger injectors would solve that?
[20:09:07] <andypugh> I was actualy expecting the questions to be about the "famous truck mechanic" part :-)
[20:09:09] <JT-Shop> 2000 bar doesn't sound as impressive as the psig conversion which is 29,007
[20:09:28] <JT-Shop> I was waiting...
[20:09:40] <false> Oh so that's why you don't want the metric system?
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[20:09:42] <andypugh> There was a rig at Sheffeld Uni that worked at 24kbar.
[20:10:30] <andypugh> It was a triaxial fatigue rig, it needed to get tubes to compressive yield in the through-thickness direction!
[20:11:15] <andypugh> There was a rack of hydraulic intensifiers, and then 25mm pipes with 1mm bore to feed the pressure vessel.
[20:11:33] <cradek> the internets say natural gas is delivered at 6 in water, which is a lot lower than I suspected. wonder where I heard 2 psig.
[20:12:11] <false> Is pcw in btw?
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[20:12:30] <archivist> would 2 be on a bottle gas cylinder regulator to range
[20:12:54] <andypugh> Gas fitters use a water manometer that fits in their tool bag, so I think the internets is right.
[20:13:06] <cradek> yeah maybe propane is higher. I know they're different enough that you have to change nozzles around
[20:13:09] <archivist> dunno what gas you are playing with
[20:13:21] <cradek> utility-supplied natural gas
[20:13:35] <false> cradek: what are you doing with it?
[20:13:46] <cradek> just restoring an old stove
[20:13:53] <cradek> rebuilding valves, repairing burners, etc
[20:13:54] <archivist> we have nasty laws now, user not allowed to play with gas
[20:13:59] <cradek> sshhhhhh
[20:14:04] <archivist> :)
[20:14:10] <false> Heheh, is that true?
[20:14:53] <cradek> I have no idea what all is allowed here, but I do know I can install my own appliances in my own house
[20:15:19] <false> We don't have laws, but if something happens and the insurance finds out, they will probaly try to get away with not paying. But they try that anyway sooo.
[20:15:34] <archivist> the gas fitters have to be trained and even get sued when the house explodes
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[20:16:18] <false> But they get payed for what they do
[20:16:26] <andypugh> My german friend informs me that in Germany only registered chimney sweeps can do that sort of work.
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[20:16:32] <false> So no doing it right has consequenses
[20:17:07] <archivist> my gas system has a leak and I am not allowed to fix it, therefore no heating
[20:17:49] <andypugh> They have to catch you first.
[20:17:54] <false> archivist: really?
[20:18:09] <andypugh> _all_ the gas in my parents house, including the boiler, was installed by me.
[20:19:48] <archivist> andypugh, my system has a british gas unsafe notice and they fitted a blank
[20:19:56] <andypugh> Ah.
[20:20:24] <andypugh> I seem to recall them doing that to my parent's house once, while they were out.
[20:20:39] <archivist> old rusty black iron pipe in the concrete
[20:20:51] <andypugh> So my dad turned off the pilot light on the gas fire, checked that there was no leak then, and removed the blank.
[20:21:15] <andypugh> We never heard anything more about it, as I recall.
[20:26:04] <JT-Shop> http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=bac_1377553205
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[20:28:28] <cradek> a vehicle that can't keep its steering wheel on the ground has really poor weight distribution
[20:30:06] <archivist> I got off a Norton which was nice and stable, got on a Triumph and it was up in the air...effin dangerous
[20:31:03] <archivist> I then understood why the Triumphs owner was useless in corners :)
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[21:25:21] <kengu> hmm.. something like this, http://www.ebay.ie/itm/CNC-ROUTER-ENGRAVING-DRILLING-AND-MILLING-MACHINE-ENGRAVER-3040-BALLSCREW-a1-/200933892175 or http://www.ebay.ie/itm/CNC-3040T-Router-Engraver-Engraving-Drilling-and-Milling-Machine-UK-SHIPPING-/171042070200 could be ok
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[21:34:27] <false> 3..................................
[21:34:53] <false> *cat invading keyboard
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[21:37:18] <Loetmichel> kengu: cute!
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[21:38:38] <Loetmichel> but the "spindle" is not worth a damn in my opinion
[21:38:53] <kengu> i sort of need to figure out a recommendation to buy
[21:39:31] <Loetmichel> i have the 6040 variant of that: not the sturdiest design to be honest, but useable. wiht the watercooled 3p AC spindle of course
[21:41:54] <kengu> hmm
[21:43:13] <kengu> http://www.ebay.ie/itm/YOOCNC-CNC-6040Z-S65J-6040-Engraver-Milling-Machine-Good-Effiency-Wood-engrave-/321179657520
[21:44:10] <Chemeleon> that one looks reasonable enough, but at that price point, I do wonder just how capable it actually is
[21:44:40] <kengu> it is hard to say.. from pictures
[21:45:25] <kengu> at that price in chine it could be better but as there is someone in the uk taking something .. it must be cheaper
[21:45:29] <kengu> china
[21:45:52] <Chemeleon> if you want to try dealing direct: www.aliexpress.com
[21:46:04] <kengu> a cnc mill, 51kg, does somehow not sound right (:
[21:46:18] <Chemeleon> for something fairly small like that, the weight seems about right
[21:46:23] <kengu> i am at alibaba at the moment
[21:46:34] <kengu> Chemeleon: true, but as I am used to a bit bigger ones
[21:46:39] <Loetmichel> kengu: like i said: NOT the sturdiest one
[21:46:41] <Chemeleon> cool - aliexpress is the same, just more of a store design than quote s ystem
[21:47:07] <Chemeleon> I've been playing around with a moving table design with a 12x12" cut area, and I'm estimating around 100-150 pounds for it so far, not counting electronics
[21:47:29] <Chemeleon> got a larger machine out in my shop, but want something small and *very* fast I can keep on my desktop for testing
[21:47:31] <Loetmichel> especially the gantry, where the linear rails are simple NOT supportet 20mm ground round bars with linear bearings on them
[21:47:48] <Loetmichel> but useable for small work including aluminium and brass
[21:48:18] <Loetmichel> look here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hnjHd69saXs
[21:48:19] <Tecan> (hnjHd69saXs) "Mcfloppys motorträger" by "Loetmichel" is "People" - Length: 0:00:16
[21:48:42] <kengu> http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Free-shipping-CNC-Router-1-5kw-spindle-2-2kw-VFD-CNC-6040-engraving-machine-220V-110V/737572463.html ..hmm.. had alibaba open in one tab
[21:48:43] <Loetmichel> that was 4mm thick aluminium
[21:48:49] <kengu> aliexpress in another one
[21:50:30] <Chemeleon> at that price point though, you could probably resell it to someone else for minimal loss if it turned out not to be good enough
[21:52:01] <Loetmichel> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NxxhvO6wP08 <- there it mills a few air holes in a 1,5mm aluminium plate... didnt had a 3mm drill handy ;-)
[21:52:02] <Tecan> (NxxhvO6wP08) "920 x 3,0 mm" by "Loetmichel" is "People" - Length: 0:00:19
[21:53:17] <Chemeleon> you have one I take it Loetmichel?
[21:53:29] <Loetmichel> my company has
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[21:53:55] <Loetmichel> i.e i have bought one for the company i work for to make prototype casings
[21:53:57] <Chemeleon> cool, nice to see the cheap er units are starting to be worth considering :)
[21:54:21] <Loetmichel> er units?
[21:54:38] <Chemeleon> as in cnc routers
[21:54:45] <Loetmichel> ah
[21:55:02] <Loetmichel> i have the same (800W) spindle on my own "mini CNC mill"
[21:55:34] <Chemeleon> I built my own, midsized mdf build (metal was too much of a premium for starting out) works fine for me, but I definitely want something bigger/faster/stronger
[21:55:43] <Loetmichel> its not a professional tool but it works great, runout less than 1/100mm meaured direcktly at the er11 on a TC mill bit shaft...
[21:55:48] <Loetmichel> and VERY quiet
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[21:56:12] <Loetmichel> my home mill is "a bit smaller"
[21:56:33] <Chemeleon> I figure I'll build the desktop unit sometime in the next few months (I hope), wanting to try and hit 300ipm for 3d carving with it, current cost estimates put it at $750-1000
[21:56:58] <Chemeleon> and at some point once (if) I have more money coming in, get a full size commercial unit for out in the shop
[21:57:48] <Loetmichel> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o53RsosYwGg <- but works good, even in 7075 aluminium
[21:57:49] <Tecan> (o53RsosYwGg) "Fraesen gilera scheinwerfer 1" by "Loetmichel" is "People" - Length: 0:00:25
[21:58:21] <Loetmichel> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a9Ov69t0uwo <- whole setup
[21:58:22] <Tecan> (a9Ov69t0uwo) "HFspindel fertig" by "Loetmichel" is "People" - Length: 0:00:38
[21:59:40] <kengu> Chemeleon: https://www.dropbox.com/s/vtqo4gz3pndi7tj/20130616_003.jpg like that one?
[21:59:58] <Chemeleon> yup
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[22:00:30] <Loetmichel> wood is not necessarily bad.
[22:00:41] <Chemeleon> I measured my current shop, if I move the *big* lumber rack to an external shed, and dont keep the current cnc I have out there, I can fit a full size unit in there without having to move all the other tools around
[22:00:53] <kengu> nice toy.. it just needs an operator as i have no idea on how to use it (; tool changer not working etc
[22:00:55] <Chemeleon> though I'll have to drag t he northfield jointer to the side to get it fromt he door to that back corner
[22:01:13] <Chemeleon> I dont suppose you're near SC? I wouldnt mind tinkering with it :)
[22:01:31] <Loetmichel> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-iYhICZEsCA <- thats the machine i build for my ex boss... MUCH more sturdy than ANY flatbed Gantry CNC router made of aluminium ;-)
[22:01:32] <Tecan> (-iYhICZEsCA) "18_04_2009 uebergabe an neuen Besitzer und arbeiter der Modellbaufima :-(" by "Loetmichel" is "People" - Length: 0:03:54
[22:01:47] <kengu> Chemeleon: fin, eu.
[22:02:05] <Chemeleon> what I have is definitely functional, but if I'm doing 3d carvings, once I get above about 50 ipm it starts to vibrate a little too much as it changes directions rapidly
[22:02:34] <Chemeleon> need to play around with accel and whatnot a bit more, I can probably eke out a touch more speed, but a 1/8" bit can theoretically cut 1/8" deep around 300ipm
[22:02:39] <Chemeleon> no way I'll get close to that with this current machine
[22:03:37] <kengu> Chemeleon: and the red part on the left is the plasma cutter I should convert to linuxcnc from some ncstudio and not really great io card as it is something that is windows only afaik
[22:04:03] <Chemeleon> nice :)
[22:04:09] <kengu> https://www.dropbox.com/s/zpm78idalzfjibq/20130616_002.jpg this one
[22:04:22] <Chemeleon> would love to add a full metal shop, but thats definitely going to have to wait until my next place with a significantly larger shop
[22:04:54] <Chemeleon> even ignoring the issue of sparks and sawdust mixing, theres just no room for any metalworking gear next to the woodworking :\
[22:05:07] <Chemeleon> its a decent sized shop, but once you start putting industrial machinery in, it filled up fast :)
[22:05:22] <Chemeleon> and I'll admit, I might have a *slight* issue with buying overly big stuff...
[22:06:03] <Chemeleon> http://www.chemeleon.net/drillPress_wip10.jpg my latest big toy, moved that in a few months ago, still need to finish repainting it though
[22:06:16] <kengu> Chemeleon: the mill moved upstairs after the photos
[22:06:28] <kengu> (:
[22:06:32] <Chemeleon> it doesnt really look *that* big in the photo
[22:06:40] <Chemeleon> until you realize that dust collector beside it is 6' tall...
[22:07:10] <kengu> nice toy (:
[22:07:17] <Chemeleon> thats the first machine I've ever gotten where I wasnt entirely sure I'd actually be able to move it in
[22:07:28] <Chemeleon> was an online auction, didnt look quite so big in the pictures they had up :)
[22:08:08] <Chemeleon> luckily it breaks down into a couple chunks, awkwardly shaped chunks, but only maybe 1200 pounds for the biggest at that point
[22:08:37] <kengu> Chemeleon: it weird how toys just get bigger when you get older.. or something. and your rooms too but toys still fill the floor very well
[22:08:56] <Chemeleon> and it runs great, built in the 1920s, was in one machine shop for at least the past 50+ years, and I didnt have to do anything to it other than add new oil
[22:09:05] <Chemeleon> gears inside it all look brand new
[22:09:37] <andypugh> cradek: My R1 has a similar problem keeping the steering wheel on the ground.
[22:09:46] <kengu> well.. it's been working for.. umm.. almost 100 years so.
[22:09:55] <Chemeleon> at some point, I need to get a nice thick chunk of steel, and see just what all its capable of :)
[22:10:06] <Chemeleon> in theory, it should do up to about a 1.5" hole in steel in one go
[22:10:14] <andypugh> Has anyone ever heard of 55 degree dovetail slides? I am thinking perhaps Mr Rivett was a fan of Mr Whitworth.
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[22:13:21] <andypugh> Ah, plenty on eBay. It must be vaguely common.
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[22:15:23] <kengu> mixing wood and metal workshops is .. hard or impossible
[22:15:45] <kengu> you would like to have cnc this and cnc that on both sides
[22:16:39] <Chemeleon> my plan for my next move, once I eventually save up enough money (and finish restoring this current house) would result in around 4000 sqft of shop space
[22:16:45] <Chemeleon> so plenty of room for both sorts then :)
[22:16:56] <Chemeleon> I dont need a shop that big, but I *really* want one big enough for a forklift
[22:17:29] <kengu> that is right way of thinking
[22:18:01] <Chemeleon> I've got several machines in the 1500-2000 pound range in addition to that dp, currently when things need moved, I use a shop crane and pallet jack
[22:18:06] <Chemeleon> it works, but its very slow going
[22:18:41] <Chemeleon> and once I can add a metal lathe, mill, etc, very easy to find stuff in the 3-6k pound range
[22:18:51] <Chemeleon> which is definitely beyond what I could move with my current setup
[22:19:44] <kengu> I was just today building a shelf at the shop (the small shop, not the one with all the big toys) and as it is not big enough there is not the pallet thinking going on
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[22:20:12] <kengu> frustrating to move boxes around
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[22:21:05] <Chemeleon> I still need to rearrange things and move the "assembly table" I bought alongside that drillpress from the front of the shop to the back corner where I want it
[22:21:12] <kengu> pallet jack could almost be used but there is a boat in the middle of everything sort of blocking
[22:21:16] <Chemeleon> I may have gone a little overkill with that too...
[22:21:21] <kengu> (and there are none)
[22:21:32] <Chemeleon> but dangit, a 6.5" thick piece of granite 4'x6' is just cool looking :)
[22:21:54] <kengu> assembly what on that?
[22:22:12] <Chemeleon> it was the machine shop's surface plate
[22:22:20] <Chemeleon> just gives me a very large, guaranteed flat surface to assemble on
[22:22:25] <kengu> true
[22:22:26] <Chemeleon> and glue pops right off it
[22:23:26] <Chemeleon> I priced things out, and just buying the angle iron and tubing to build a similar stand to what it came with, would have cost me more than I paid for it
[22:23:42] <Chemeleon> paid $200 for the granite, $225 for the drill press :)
[22:24:16] <kengu> not bad
[22:24:21] <andypugh> I have two lathes, a milling machine, a workbench, shelves and 2 motorcycles in a single garage. It's a bit cramped.
[22:25:01] <kengu> hmm.. in my garage there is 0 motorcycles. do i need to get a better garage or how do i fix that
[22:25:20] <andypugh> It does sound like your garage is broken.
[22:25:21] <kengu> (actually no garage at all, but..)
[22:25:44] <kengu> andypugh: yeah. maybe i need to get a proper working one
[22:26:16] <kengu> but i have a garage door
[22:30:25] <kengu> http://www.konekansa.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=6085&d=1377724210 there. and there, http://www.konekansa.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=6081&d=1377636573
[22:31:47] <Chemeleon> does linux cnc prefer gcode files end with the last line being % ?
[22:32:05] <Chemeleon> had one guy mention that in an email yesterday, but I wasnt finding anything one way or the other online so far to confirm it
[22:32:34] <andypugh> It wants an M2 or % as an end-of-code marker
[22:33:07] <Chemeleon> M2 prefered to M30? wikipedia says m30 is preferred now
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[22:33:26] <kengu> and if there is none then it will start again from the start?-)
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[22:48:52] <andypugh> M30 is meant to do a pallet change as well as stop.
[22:49:03] <andypugh> http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/html/gcode/m-code.html#sec:M2-M30
[22:49:54] <kengu> is there a manual or something for this kind of spindle control panel, http://i01.i.aliimg.com/img/pb/632/657/643/643657632_007.jpg
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[22:51:51] <andypugh> I would imagine it is specific to the VFD that it is connected to.
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[22:57:11] <kengu> but it is like the same chinese c*ap everywhere
[22:57:21] <kengu> but yeah. true.
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