#linuxcnc | Logs for 2013-08-26

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[00:17:48] <nspiel> so i just probed the voltage that the encoders are getting and its 1.42 volts. they need 5v would that make the 7i25 not work or light up
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[00:59:14] <pcw_home> Sounds like you do not have 5V power routed to the 7I25
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[01:00:57] <Jymmm> pcw_home: Heh, maybe you need to add a 5v led on the boards =)
[01:02:45] <nspiel> i probed 5v on the power rail
[01:02:51] <nspiel> in the screw on terminals
[01:03:03] <pcw_home> I think the only LEDs on the 7I25 are the HBridge output LEDs
[01:03:05] <pcw_home> those will not light unless you have 5V, Motor power, enables and PWM
[01:03:10] <nspiel> i just probed again though at the encoder power on the arm and it was only 1.74 volts though
[01:03:34] <Tom_itx> where did you measure that?
[01:04:03] <Tom_itx> encoder outputs or the power to them?
[01:05:28] <pcw_home> How are you powering the 5V on th 7I25?
[01:06:05] <Tom_itx> they could be open collector too
[01:06:46] <pcw_home> looks like the only way to supply 5V power is via the motor sense connectors or pin 49 on the flat cable
[01:08:11] <nspiel> im powering it via the screw on connector near the 12 v pin
[01:08:30] <nspiel> i meased that at the breakout board on the robot arm that hooks up to the encoders
[01:08:33] <nspiel> measured
[01:08:43] <nspiel> the power on them tom
[01:09:21] <nspiel> how can i supply 5v power via the motor sense connectorS?
[01:10:15] <nspiel> when i probe the output to the encoders on the 7i25 for power i get 5v
[01:10:29] <nspiel> but when i probe on the breakout board on the arm that goes to the encoders i get 1.73 volts
[01:11:48] <archivist> a wiring problem?
[01:12:08] <s1dev> so I hear you can pick up lathes for pretty decent prices from estate sales?
[01:14:00] <nspiel> pcw is supply power via the motor sense the same as on the screw terminal connectors with power
[01:15:26] <s1dev> I'm trying to find a lathe as big as possible that can be transported using a minivan
[01:15:43] <s1dev> without a forklift
[01:21:14] <nspiel> so i just probed the mesa 7i25 again with the pins plugged in
[01:21:21] <nspiel> and without
[01:21:35] <nspiel> with on power to encoder header plugged in the other header drops to 3v for encoder power
[01:22:07] <nspiel> and on the other board the other power pin drops to 1.5v when only one encoder on that board is plugged in
[01:25:52] <Jymmm> pcw_home: I found another place that had those 2/3 chargers much cheaper and ordered one of each
[01:26:22] <nspiel> pcw_home do u have any ideas on how to make this 7i25 work?
[01:31:46] <nspiel> the leds are lighting up now
[01:35:38] <pcw_home> You cannot power th e7I25 via the screw connector you must power it via flat cable pin 49 (or one of the motor sense connectors)
[01:38:30] <nspiel> so it would just be the ground and 5v on the motor sense connector?
[01:39:24] <nspiel> the leds lit up for a while but its only when there is a pwm across the output to the motor
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[01:53:02] <CaptHindsight> s1dev: if you can find one in your area
[01:56:16] <pcw_home> Yes either one of the motor sense connectors or pin 49 on the 50 pin connector
[01:56:54] <nspiel> so does it need both ground and 5v or just 5v
[01:58:40] <Tom_itx> serious?
[01:59:37] <nspiel> well the board is internally grounded to the screw terminal that has motor power and ground
[01:59:52] <nspiel> and i am groundind it there already
[02:00:10] <nspiel> so at motorsense the ground is connected to the other ground that is on the screw terminal
[02:00:14] <nspiel> connected to the psu
[02:00:23] <nspiel> so i think it would only need 5v?
[02:00:47] <Tom_itx> i wouldn't take a chance on it. you never know what stray noise you can pick up along the way
[02:01:00] <nspiel> ok sounds good
[02:01:22] <Tom_itx> just make sure GND _is_ GND
[02:04:46] <nspiel> hmm ok
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[02:25:40] <nspiel> pcw i did what you said and powered the 7i25 from the motorsense and i still did not get 5v encoder power
[02:28:00] <pcw_home> Pretty sure that motor sense 5V is connected to the 5V plane in the 7I25 card so you may have a mis-connect
[02:30:21] <nspiel> yay its working!
[02:30:31] <nspiel> thank you pcw!
[02:30:55] <nspiel> just needed to reconnect one of the powers back on to the 5v
[02:30:59] <nspiel> on my psu
[02:31:21] <nspiel> i have another questions though. what is the proper way to wire in limit switches to the 7i43
[02:39:20] <Jymmm> http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=50147158n
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[02:43:45] <pcw_home> If you dont use a daughter-card ant just wire directly to the 7I43, the best way is a NC
[02:43:46] <pcw_home> switch with one switch connection wired to a 7I43 input and the other switch connection
[02:43:47] <pcw_home> wired to ground
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[05:19:51] <nspiel> so the 7i43 default hal for hm2-servo could read all my encoders and send pwm but now i need combine it with the scara_4_sim.hal file and i am not sure where to start
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[07:40:17] <Loetmichel> mornin'
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[08:19:56] <archivist> so will the steam engine behave today....
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[09:28:42] <Valen> archivist right up until it explodes
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[11:42:52] <skunkworks> http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net/threads/60470-Checking-a-computer-for-timing-problems-re-CNC-and-other-issues
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[13:12:29] <aep> on motors what does oz-in mean?
[13:13:05] <jdh> torque, in odd units.
[13:13:17] <jdh> for steppers, it is holding torque
[13:13:18] <aep> so bigger is better. whatever the heck oz is
[13:13:24] <jdh> oz = ounce
[13:13:30] <aep> ah
[13:13:36] <aep> ounce per inch? haha
[13:14:25] <aep> ebay has 270ozin or 425ozin
[13:14:35] <aep> the later comes without a controller card
[13:14:38] <jdh> 425 is 3NM
[13:14:44] <aep> still no idea if i need that card
[13:14:57] <jdh> you need a driver/controller of some sort.
[13:15:11] <aep> yeah but i won't be able to use parport anyway
[13:15:18] <aep> so i need to build my own or buy something else
[13:15:28] <jdh> where are you?
[13:15:30] <aep> but the PSU and some other card stuff they ship seems useful
[13:15:32] <aep> germany
[13:15:57] <jdh> there are a few .de people here later. They might have better sourcing info.
[13:16:23] <aep> yeah, pretty sure this chineese reseller on ebay is a common source
[13:16:33] <jdh> I meant localish.
[13:16:34] <aep> he sells it specifically to hobbyists building cncs
[13:16:36] <aep> ah
[13:16:43] <aep> local would be cool
[13:16:58] <aep> Germany/Berlin if anyone reads this in their backlog :)
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[13:18:07] <jdh> how are you going to drive it (non-p-port)
[13:18:30] <aep> no idea yet. but i'm reasonably sure i dont want to spend time figuring out how to get a usb-parport cable working
[13:18:43] <aep> it usually just doesnt work
[13:18:44] <jdh> won't work anyway
[13:19:14] <jdh> USB isn't realtime, LinuxCNC doesn't like it.
[13:19:27] <aep> what kind of stuff does linuxcnc take?
[13:19:45] <aep> i was considering running it on a dedicated embedded board so there is nothing in its way
[13:19:47] <jdh> p-ports (built in or USB), mesa cards are well supported, Pico Systems
[13:19:48] <aep> like an rpi
[13:20:32] <aep> someone recommended the mesa things yesterday
[13:20:33] <jdh> BBB is probably better than Pi. Neither are ready for prime time w/ LinuxCNC afaik. BBB is supposed to be working though.
[13:20:38] <aep> but all they have is parport or PCI
[13:20:48] <jdh> PCI-E
[13:20:54] <aep> ah
[13:21:15] <aep> i dont actually have a desktop pc
[13:21:24] <aep> could build one for this i guess
[13:21:52] <jdh> I have cheap dedicated boxes for mine.
[13:21:58] <aep> yeah
[13:22:07] <aep> but i'm worried about the cost of a pcie card
[13:22:29] <aep> and dirt cheap ports probably wont have a good parport
[13:22:29] <jdh> card + daughterboard is like $200us
[13:22:34] <aep> *boards
[13:22:47] <aep> bearable
[13:22:54] <jdh> cheap PCI parports are fine for non-demanding stepping
[13:23:04] <aep> hmm
[13:23:21] <aep> i wonder if i could use those chineese cards
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[13:23:43] <jdh> you would be hard pressed to find a non-chinese made card
[13:23:45] <aep> that's all the specs they have: http://img.auctiva.com/imgdata/1/4/2/2/0/7/2/webimg/385291178_o.jpg
[13:24:06] <aep> nah by "chineese card" i mean the one that comes with the ebay article for stepper motors
[13:24:23] <aep> its like supposed to be a bundle that just works
[13:24:32] <aep> but i wouldnt know how to talk to the card
[13:24:44] <jdh> those are plain TB6560 drivers.
[13:25:08] <aep> so any card speaks the same stuff?
[13:25:32] <jdh> they are set up for normal parallel port
[13:26:16] <jdh> 90% of teh chinese driver boards are the same. Some can be modified for better performance (replacing caps to stop squealing, bypassing the optos for speed)
[13:26:39] <aep> yeah i'd guess they're not too creative
[13:26:47] <aep> just wondering if in general they are any use
[13:26:55] <aep> or if i end up throwing away the mainboard anyway
[13:27:09] <jdh> lots of people use them. They are fine for non-demanding applictions.
[13:27:34] <aep> if i had quality demands i'd buy a professionally made machine :D
[13:27:49] <aep> well it should kinda work ;)
[13:28:12] <jdh> that board and a pci pport card would work fine for many things.
[13:28:26] <jdh> but, you pretty much get what you pay for.
[13:29:06] <aep> i'm worried about the PSU
[13:29:16] <aep> they charge Eur10 for it
[13:29:34] <aep> and there's a lot of current going through it
[13:30:09] <jdh> what are you planning on building?
[13:30:36] <aep> a 1x1 meter cnc router
[13:30:52] <aep> for cutting out metal parts mostly
[13:30:56] <aep> out of planes
[13:31:11] <aep> i could use a mill but i dont get how they work
[13:31:23] <aep> like turning and stuff
[13:31:42] <aep> router seems really easy.
[13:32:58] <aep> but i probably will start with a smaller model because these can be built really cheap for learning: http://www.instructables.com/id/Easy-to-Build-Desk-Top-3-Axis-CNC-Milling-Machine/
[13:33:11] <aep> so i can throw away the first machine and then build the real thing after having made mistakes
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[13:38:56] <aep> i think i'll buy some crappy intel board and a PCI parport card
[13:39:12] <aep> need to take baby steps
[13:42:20] <ReadError> lol you want to cut metal with that?
[13:42:32] <aep> not going to work?
[13:43:26] <aep> dont care much about the quality of the first version. this is obviously meant to be built getho style
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[13:44:36] <ReadError> why waste money and time
[13:44:40] <ReadError> just do it right the 1st time
[13:44:51] <aep> hmm
[13:45:29] <aep> that kinda requires planning, and i dont know everything yet
[13:46:35] <jdh> what kind of metal? That will probably require more rigidity than a 1mx1m router can handle.
[13:46:48] <aep> i was hoping for carbon
[13:47:00] <aep> but i know nothing about it, so its all try and error
[13:47:20] <aep> if that doesnt work, aluminium
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[14:52:05] <MattyMatt> lasers are good for very thin sheet materials
[14:52:18] <MattyMatt> even metal, if it's very thin
[14:52:28] <DJ9DJ> moin
[14:52:59] <MattyMatt> happy teatime
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[14:53:34] * MattyMatt bad englishman, drinking coffee while working through 4pm
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[14:56:31] <MattyMatt> aep, a vertical mill is essentially the same as a router, just a different shape and stronger
[14:57:41] <MattyMatt> I started with something in between, which was probably a poor compromise
[14:58:03] <MattyMatt> it was cheap tho, and does woodwork OK
[14:58:42] <aep> you think a mill is a good idea for cutting metal sheets?
[14:58:52] <MattyMatt> how thick?
[14:59:12] <aep> uuh. i think no more than 5mm
[14:59:39] <aep> eh wrong
[14:59:44] <MattyMatt> plasma cutters are good, but a bit industrial and low precision
[14:59:59] <aep> probably could be up to 20mm
[15:00:12] <aep> i dont want to play with torches and stuff
[15:00:19] <aep> i dont have a garage, this is all indoors
[15:00:42] <MattyMatt> no metal cutting is carpet-freindly
[15:01:17] <MattyMatt> cheap lasers <100W won't even do 5mm metal
[15:01:41] <aep> i think i'll stick to a router
[15:01:54] <aep> which i can handle by hand, so shouldnt be a big deal automating it
[15:02:09] <MattyMatt> made of tslot alu?
[15:02:33] <aep> still sketching. maybe not
[15:02:50] <aep> unsure if i want to build a crappy one first for learning or go for a real one directly
[15:02:50] <MattyMatt> mine is made of plywood and drawer slides. it's really unhappy trying to cut alu, and even trying to cut steel is pointless
[15:03:01] <aep> uh not enough torque?
[15:03:02] <PetefromTn> Cutting metal sheet on a router is doable but like Matty said it is gonna be messy and LOUD!! Not necessarily indoor friendly
[15:03:11] <aep> hm
[15:03:21] <aep> should i go for a mill then?
[15:03:34] <aep> i definatly dont want a laser
[15:04:01] <MattyMatt> if a mill is large enough for the parts you need, then yes it's better
[15:04:09] <PetefromTn> Honestly if you intend to cut a lot of metal and all of it will be sheet that is not really something you are gonna want to do indoors. Whether it is for a mill or router.
[15:04:22] <MattyMatt> routers excel at the large sheetwork tho
[15:04:27] <aep> hmm
[15:04:46] <PetefromTn> A mill will obviously cut any sort of metal as long as it is rigid enough.
[15:05:34] <PetefromTn> If you need to cut a lot of metal sheet I recommend finding a local place to cut it for you on a large CNC laser or similar machine such as a waterjet. It will probably be cheaper in the long run.
[15:05:40] <PetefromTn> And a whole lot less messy.
[15:06:02] <aep> yeah :/
[15:06:25] <MattyMatt> waterjet services are b expensive here in UK
[15:06:30] <PetefromTn> If you just gotta have a machine inside to cut metal the cheapest will be a plasma cutter cnc driven.
[15:06:34] <MattyMatt> but then the machines ain't cheap either
[15:06:44] <JT-Shop> laser is much faster than water jet
[15:07:01] <PetefromTn> I have had a bunch of stuff pro laser cut locally and it was surprisingly inexpensive.
[15:07:17] <MattyMatt> if you want cheap. print templates and get jiggy wid da hacksaw
[15:07:20] <PetefromTn> Plus they could cut up to 3/4 inch I think on that behemoth they have.
[15:07:35] <aep> the only worry with using a service is that i have no experience with the format
[15:07:44] <PetefromTn> what format?
[15:07:45] <aep> like how a cnc thing drives around edges, etc
[15:07:52] <PetefromTn> you don' need to..
[15:07:58] <aep> this is probably stuff you need to know before giving it to them
[15:08:04] <PetefromTn> just send them a drawing or a picture and give dimensions..
[15:08:09] <aep> really?
[15:08:10] <MattyMatt> they'll tell you what you need
[15:08:15] <aep> hmm
[15:08:26] <PetefromTn> I just did a cad drawing in autcad for my laser work and they went right to work on it
[15:08:31] <MattyMatt> dxf should be good for 2d
[15:08:38] <PetefromTn> yup thats what I used.
[15:08:44] <aep> dxf i can do
[15:08:56] <PetefromTn> Also I did some stainless sheet and the cuts were beautiful...
[15:08:58] <aep> i usually print that out and use it as a template
[15:09:03] <aep> for manual cutting
[15:09:27] <PetefromTn> dxf should be just fine but check with the shop you use and don't be afraid to haggle with them.
[15:09:38] <PetefromTn> Donuts also help.....always.
[15:09:43] <aep> :D
[15:10:14] <aep> thanks i'll try
[15:10:47] <PetefromTn> The nice thing about a laser is that they can both cut and also engrave with the machine at the same time so if you have a logo or need parts numbered or whatever you are good to go.
[15:11:09] <PetefromTn> They can also pierce for bends that are to be made later on making it simple to make complex shapes.
[15:11:15] <PetefromTn> Good luck.
[15:12:07] <PetefromTn> Oh well better get my ass back in the shop, these cabinets are not gonna build themselves LOL
[15:12:09] <MattyMatt> I've seen a fancy laser that makes the folds in acrylic with a combo of heat and gravity
[15:13:07] <MattyMatt> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=arjRtCjI9AQ
[15:13:08] <Tecan> (arjRtCjI9AQ) "LaserOrigami: laser-cutting 3d objects" by "Stefanie Mueller" is "Tech" - Length: 0:04:18
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[15:19:50] <MattyMatt> TB6560 chip is brain damaged slow, even if you bypass the optos on those boards. I use one but I don't recommend it
[15:22:19] <MattyMatt> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/CNC-Single-Axis-TB6600-0-2-5A-Two-Phase-Hybrid-Stepper-Motor-Driver-Controller/290923493477
[15:22:58] <MattyMatt> these ones look much better. the chip spec says it's as fast as other ones
[15:23:35] <MattyMatt> individual drives are more servicable too
[15:23:50] <MattyMatt> dead chip on a 4 axis board is pita
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[15:26:36] <MattyMatt> with that TB6600 driver you'd need a breakout board with differential outputs to use on a parport, but they are cheap
[15:27:06] <Chemeleon> nice, that driver seems very cheap, even compared to the other chinese ones :)
[15:30:35] <MattyMatt> maybe too cheap :p both of the 4 axis boards from that manufacturer have been hacked in dodgy ways. I suspect they are factory rejects that have been reworked and put on ebay for the buttermen to suffer
[15:31:06] <jdh> cheapass tb6560 board is cheap. That is its purpose in life..
[15:31:24] <jdh> It will still work fine for many uses.
[15:31:38] <MattyMatt> yeah my mill still runs fine
[15:31:41] <Connor> http://www.automationtechnologiesinc.com/products-page/kl-stepper-drivers
[15:31:48] <MattyMatt> 12V doesn't stress it
[15:32:01] <Chemeleon> I use the KL 4030 on my current router
[15:32:02] <Connor> those, or a Gecko g540 if it fits your motor sizes.
[15:32:21] <Chemeleon> planning to build a second desktop sized cnc later this year sometime once the software sells more
[15:33:06] <Connor> I have a Tb6560 4 axis on my CNC router.. 24v. It works.. I replaced the SMT caps to get it so I could stand to be in the room.. made a mosquito tone..
[15:33:38] <jdh> I have a TB6560 in box.
[15:33:39] <Chemeleon> the one linked on ebay above was tb6600, same issues as the 6560 or improved?
[15:34:03] <MattyMatt> much improved. 1µs step rate, 50V max
[15:34:36] <Chemeleon> seems to have a higher amp range than the kl
[15:34:40] <Chemeleon> or at least claims it does :)
[15:35:06] <Connor> KL's are known and proven.. You get what you pay for... all I'm saying.
[15:35:13] <MattyMatt> tb6560 datasheet says 15µs mark + 15µs space, although it works fine at 7+7
[15:35:59] <MattyMatt> but that still stops you using 1/16 steps at full motor speed
[15:36:51] * JT-Shop notes that the Mill Buddy has helped all ready and it is not even done
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[15:37:43] <CaptHindsight> http://www.goodluckbuy.com/single-axis-cnc-stepper-driver-for-cnc-milling-machine-diy-max-50v-dc-4-5a.html
[15:39:28] <CaptHindsight> http://www.nlogn.com/blog/ a blog about that hy-div268n driver
[15:39:34] <MattyMatt> goodluckbuy still sounds like a gamble :) I'd risk $20 a pop tho before splashing out for geckos
[15:39:59] <CaptHindsight> http://www.buy4u.cn/ebaylistkey-5%20axis%20cnc%20machine.html
[15:40:24] <MattyMatt> at $20 you can afford to keep spares
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[15:52:23] <CaptHindsight> http://www.toshiba-components.com/productpages/Linear/TB6600HG.html "Datasheet not available" but they have nice video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hIxJBSZyywU
[15:52:24] <Tecan> (hIxJBSZyywU) "Toshiba TB6600 Stepping Motor Driver IC" by "ToshibaElectronics1" is "Tech" - Length: 0:01:58
[15:53:33] <CaptHindsight> http://www.toshiba-components.com/motorcontrol/pages/stepper_drivers.html
[15:55:41] <CaptHindsight> http://www.haoyuelectronics.com/Attachment/TB6600_module/TB6600_Datasheet.pdf preliminary data sheet
[15:59:07] <CaptHindsight> http://www.hotmcu.com/tb6600-1-axis-stepper-motor-2phase-driver-board-for-cnc-router-p-56.html
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[16:00:02] <DJ9DJ> re
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[16:02:07] <CaptHindsight> they also have the A20 Mars boards http://www.hotmcu.com/marsboard-a20-dev-board-p-60.html?cPath=33
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[16:08:45] <CaptHindsight> TB6600HQ Output current: IOUT = 5.0 A (absolute maximum ratings, peak, within 100ms), so beware they used the Chinese Amp rating for the product spec
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[16:13:42] <Loetmichel> CaptHindsight: normal, pmpo ;-)
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[16:55:45] <IchGuckLive> hi all B)
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[17:10:40] <IchGuckLive> so all routers are up and running for all here O.O
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[17:49:12] <Aero-Tec> what is the best gcode number to use for deep hole drilling, some sort of peck drilling, with clean out retracts during drilling
[17:49:25] <IchGuckLive> G83
[17:49:47] <Aero-Tec> there are lots of drilling Gcodes and some not drilling ones that can be used for drilling
[17:49:52] <Aero-Tec> ok thanks
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[17:56:13] <IchGuckLive> for deeper then the drill diameter
[17:56:19] <IchGuckLive> use G83
[17:56:38] <Aero-Tec> what does emc default to, G98 or G99?
[17:56:49] <Aero-Tec> ok thanks I have been looking at that one
[17:57:28] <Aero-Tec> so is there a recommended advance amount?
[17:57:42] <Aero-Tec> 1/2 drill dia or drill dia?
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[18:00:09] <Aero-Tec> G98 or G99 does not seem to be a recommend part of startup INI string for Gcode
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[18:05:45] <Aero-Tec> does G80 have any effect on G98 and G99?
[18:06:18] <Aero-Tec> seeing as it did not say it did in the docs I am guessing it does not
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[18:08:44] <IchGuckLive> no
[18:08:50] <IchGuckLive> im off
[18:08:54] <JT-Shop> The initial (G98) plane is reset any time cycle motion mode is abandoned, whether explicitly (G80) or implicitly (any motion code that is not a cycle). Switching among cycle modes (say G81 to G83) does NOT reset the initial plane. It is possible to switch between G98 and G99 during a series of cycles.
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[18:09:50] <JT-Shop> I would assume G99 is used if G98 is not in force
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[18:11:31] <Aero-Tec> cool
[18:11:34] <Aero-Tec> thanks
[18:11:55] <Aero-Tec> any recommendation on G83 settings?
[18:12:42] <Aero-Tec> percent of dia of drill for each advance
[18:13:18] <Aero-Tec> guess that would change some depending on total depth
[18:13:25] <cradek> yeah, very much
[18:13:27] <JT-Shop> and material
[18:13:40] <cradek> material stringiness
[18:13:57] <Aero-Tec> and bit over heating
[18:14:03] <Aero-Tec> that is my big one
[18:14:33] <Aero-Tec> but can tooth load effect the heat build up greatly?
[18:14:41] <JT-Shop> aluminum?
[18:14:51] <JT-Shop> overheating is a speed feed issue
[18:15:32] <Aero-Tec> I know it can to some extent and extremely if tooth load is very small
[18:16:07] <Aero-Tec> I am cutting 12L14 and 416 and 4043
[18:16:50] <JT-Shop> 12L14 should cut nice, might be a SFM problem, ie your rpm is too high
[18:17:08] <JT-Shop> do you have a speed feed spreadsheet?
[18:17:20] <Aero-Tec> I have had the drills get hot enough to boil the coolant when drill dill is retracted
[18:17:33] <Aero-Tec> yes, just got it
[18:17:39] <Tom_itx> http://zero-divide.net/index.php?page=fswizard&shell_id=199&load_tool_id=27011
[18:17:49] <Tom_itx> speeds n feeds for various materials
[18:17:53] <Aero-Tec> was flying be the seat of my pants before
[18:18:00] <Tom_itx> http://www.onsrud.com/plusdocs/Doc/index.html?model.code=FeedSpeeds
[18:18:02] <Tom_itx> chiploads
[18:18:06] <JT-Shop> got some experiance then
[18:18:22] <Aero-Tec> they always seemed very aggressive
[18:19:14] <JT-Shop> nice calc Tom_itx
[18:19:22] <Aero-Tec> with manual hand crank, yes, not so much with CNC
[18:19:49] <Aero-Tec> and I guess I was to soft even hand cranking
[18:19:51] <Tom_itx> i think i got that one from andy
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[18:22:23] <JT-Shop> I use a feed per rev of 0.001 per 1/16" of diameter on drills in steel
[18:24:30] <Aero-Tec> I have HSMAdvisor installed
[18:24:42] <Aero-Tec> nice program
[18:25:23] <Aero-Tec> so if bit is over heating it is ether to light a cut or to dull a dill?
[18:25:35] <Aero-Tec> things is how do you tell them apart?
[18:26:00] <Aero-Tec> I have a dill doctor sharpener
[18:28:23] <jdh> does it work?
[18:28:24] <Aero-Tec> not sure if one should use resharpened drill bit with CNC
[18:28:36] <Aero-Tec> yes, for the most part
[18:29:02] <Aero-Tec> but has a overly aggressive split point under cut
[18:29:34] <Aero-Tec> leaves the point with little meat for mu liking
[18:29:36] <JT-Shop> I've never seen a drill dr sharpen a bit well
[18:30:04] <Aero-Tec> that was my point for using with CNC
[18:30:06] <jdh> JT: does anything?
[18:30:14] <Aero-Tec> great for hand drilling
[18:30:39] <Aero-Tec> but for CNC I would not be so quick to use them
[18:31:02] <Aero-Tec> maybe with shallow holes
[18:31:26] <Aero-Tec> or a resize of a existing hole
[18:33:03] <Aero-Tec> maybe we should do a open source emc based 5 or 6 axis drill and end mill sharpener project
[18:33:20] <Aero-Tec> hell go the full 9 if needed
[18:33:43] <Aero-Tec> top of the line sharpener
[18:34:10] <Aero-Tec> sound like a good project to work on?
[18:35:11] <Aero-Tec> get some designs happening, do some testing and trial and error, hope not so much error and come up with the worlds best sharpener
[18:36:22] <Aero-Tec> how hot do you guys run your drill bits?
[18:36:47] <Aero-Tec> I hate to get them boiling coolant
[18:36:47] <cradek> 50 sfm
[18:38:01] <Aero-Tec> a few bubbles are ok but a full boil off is not OK is what I was going by
[18:40:05] <Aero-Tec> how critical is rpm on a lathe for drilling?
[18:40:50] <Aero-Tec> mine right now is manual speed change so I try to set one speed that does it all if possible
[18:41:15] <Aero-Tec> I know over speed is bad, but what about under speed?
[18:41:42] <Aero-Tec> there is something about the speed and taking heat away from cutting point
[18:42:15] <cradek> for stainless or other work-hardening material maybe drilling too slow would be bad, but usually I bet it doesn't matter much
[18:42:35] <cradek> you should just experiment...
[18:42:42] <Aero-Tec> but if speed is lower the heat build up at cutting point will be lower as well, so do they off set one another and work well at lower speeds?
[18:43:34] <Aero-Tec> 416 should be OK as it does not seam to be work hardening, or is it and that is part of my problem?
[18:43:47] <Aero-Tec> I have been playing around
[18:43:59] <cradek> what problem?
[18:44:14] <ReadError> hey guys, i was wondering if there is a good way to identify a thread type
[18:44:32] <Aero-Tec> but to tell the truth this CNC thing scares the hell out me me
[18:44:44] <Aero-Tec> drill bit heating up
[18:44:47] <cpresser> ReadError: use a gauge
[18:45:01] <ReadError> its 4.91mm
[18:45:09] <cradek> what's your surface speed?
[18:45:10] <ReadError> and the pitch on a m5 isnt right
[18:45:13] <cpresser> ReadError: http://www.oldtimer-tv.com/oldtimer/DE/images/Schraubenlehre%201_580.jpg
[18:45:29] <ReadError> oh that looks handy
[18:45:41] <cpresser> actually those are not to expensive
[18:45:44] <Loetmichel> Aero-Tec: coward. red hot drillbits are happening here even on the (hand) drill press ;-)
[18:45:50] <cradek> ReadError: 5/inch?
[18:45:59] <ReadError> if I had one of those dial indicators that go sideways i could spin it 360 and figure out the offset
[18:45:59] <Aero-Tec> lol
[18:46:21] <jdh> or thread wires
[18:46:39] <Aero-Tec> Loetmichel, drill bits are red hot or the chips?
[18:46:50] <Loetmichel> the bit AND the chips
[18:47:03] <Loetmichel> (TC bits, of course)
[18:47:06] <cradek> blue chips good, red chips bad
[18:47:11] <ReadError> theres 6 threads in a distance of 4.88mm
[18:47:14] <Aero-Tec> I am drilling about 2 inches deep with a 0.25 drill bit
[18:47:19] <ReadError> its from china, so i assume its metric
[18:47:23] <ReadError> everything else is metric
[18:47:31] <ReadError> hole wise on it
[18:47:46] <cpresser> ReadError: M5 has a 0.8mm pitch
[18:47:51] <cradek> ReadError: that's 32tpi
[18:47:53] <cpresser> according to the book
[18:47:55] <ReadError> yea, i figured it was m5
[18:48:01] <Aero-Tec> could not keep it cool enough for my liking so went to a 0.328 drill bit
[18:48:04] <ReadError> but 0.8mm I have, wont thread
[18:48:22] <Loetmichel> cradek: why?
[18:48:28] <cradek> ?
[18:49:00] <Loetmichel> why are red chips bad?
[18:49:18] <Loetmichel> besides from staninding in the chip rain
[18:49:32] <Aero-Tec> ouch
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[18:50:11] <Loetmichel> Aero-Tec: i am pretty "work.hardened" for temperature...
[18:50:13] <cpresser> ReadError: your data matches the thread-tables in my book 100%. according to taht ist M5x0.8
[18:50:21] <Aero-Tec> so no one thinks a open source CNC bit sharpener that is emc based is a good idea?
[18:50:38] <Loetmichel> see -> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mAnwbQ4gk9M
[18:50:39] <Tecan> (mAnwbQ4gk9M) "Funkenflug" by "Loetmichel" is "People" - Length: 0:00:33
[18:50:44] <cradek> Aero-Tec: a 10-32 thread would be 4.83mm major diameter, 0.793mm pitch
[18:51:17] <ReadError> ooo
[18:51:19] <ReadError> thats an idea
[18:51:25] <ReadError> sounds pretty close too
[18:51:32] <ReadError> thanks cradek
[18:51:34] <cradek> er yeah that was meant for you :-)
[18:52:16] <syyl> Aero-Tec: setup time for a cnc toolgrinder would be horrible for one-offs...
[18:52:30] <syyl> then add writing a programm
[18:52:44] <syyl> and hope everything goes right
[18:53:05] * syyl stays for the manual t&c grinder in the shop...
[18:53:16] <Aero-Tec> add auto probing for setting it up
[18:53:59] <Aero-Tec> slam in a tool and enter in a few things like amount to take off point and sides and hit go
[18:54:22] <Aero-Tec> it probes for the info it needs and goes to work
[18:54:23] * JT-Shop wished he had a tool grinder... but I have a surface grinder
[18:54:36] <syyl> almost as good, JT-Shop ;)
[18:54:44] <syyl> at least for many things
[18:55:04] <kengu> http://littlemachineshop.com/info/minimill.php i am still sort of interested in cnc conversion of one of those or likes.
[18:55:12] <jdh> probably for more things
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[18:59:05] <archivist> ReadError, a travelling microscope for random thread measuring
[18:59:36] <archivist> one with an angle measuring eyepiece is even better
[19:00:52] <archivist> I got lucky :)
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[19:01:08] <archivist> now I could not be without one
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[19:09:20] <archivist> essential reverse engineering tool for small work http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Traveling_microscope
[19:11:06] <JT-Shop> pretty neat
[19:12:32] <spack> hmm
[19:12:33] <spack> i want one
[19:14:29] <archivist> get the right eyepieces too the one with two cross hairs one at 0 deg and the other on a rotator with vernier to read the angle
[19:15:01] <spack> where'd you get yours?
[19:16:01] <archivist> the first I cannot remember, second model engineer show, third swapped something for it
[19:16:26] <archivist> I should let one or two go
[19:20:11] <spack> ebay seems to have only one kind
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[19:20:18] <spack> from india or something
[19:21:06] <archivist> yes I just looked
[19:22:07] <archivist> all mine are old UK made ones, two Swift and the other possibly Cooke
[19:24:08] <spack> the indian ones are all over ali baba too for like $89
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[19:25:19] <archivist> but you can just use your cnc too, just mount the microscope tube on the spindle and jog the xy
[19:26:41] <archivist> another thing to look for is toolmakers setting microscope, they have the basics of XY measurement and are accurate
[19:27:23] <archivist> I had one with dead optics, the XY are the basis of my cnc mill
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[19:28:54] <archivist> too good 171108969101
[19:29:40] <archivist> grmble...cant have
[19:35:17] <spack> local pick up only
[19:36:49] <spack> http://www.ebay.com/itm/MOLLER-WEDEL-TOOLMAKERS-MICROSCOPE-WITH-POLAROID-CAMERA-STAND-4718-/221159485479?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item337e21f027
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[19:46:12] <JT-Shop> email "can you walk me though how to change the program in the plc so I don't have to bother you all the time" translated "so I don't have to pay you to do it"
[19:47:05] <cradek> people should be able to change the software in hardware they own
[19:48:25] <cradek> but "walk me through" is a little much
[19:48:58] <archivist> training is 1000 dolla a day plus expenses
[19:49:00] <cradek> as long as you don't impede them on purpose you're not evil to say no to that kind of request
[19:51:17] <JT-Shop> well I'm cheap I get $100/hr for programming
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[20:01:54] <AR_> anyone have a 1-3/16" 16tpi tap i can borrow?
[20:02:27] <cradek> um, no...
[20:03:03] <jdh> buffer tube?
[20:05:02] <AR_> yup
[20:05:02] <archivist> at that size easy enough to thread mill
[20:05:19] <AR_> well, i took a 3/8-16 tap and ground all but 1 flute off
[20:05:24] <AR_> and thread milled it with that
[20:05:37] <AR_> but it didnt cut deep enough and i was afraid of screwing it up by running again
[20:05:50] <AR_> but i guess i can line it up good enough by eye/feel
[20:06:20] <archivist> if you didnt move anything a rerun should be ok, it is what I do
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[20:07:01] <AR_> >if you didnt move anything
[20:07:23] <AR_> >holding it in my hand
[20:07:36] <archivist> the touch off points
[20:07:52] <archivist> oops
[20:08:26] <AR_> how about i lower the tap in the hole, bring it to one side, and line up with the threads?
[20:09:09] <AR_> my X and Y will be the same since i didnt move the vise
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[20:20:13] <tjtr33> archivist, http://www.ebay.com/itm/Nikon-Optical-Comparator-Bench-top-Model-56505-/380701910034
[20:21:03] <archivist> I missed one for £100 at an auction many years ago
[20:21:30] <andypugh> That one is $300, which is cheaper becaause $ are not real money :-)
[20:22:01] <archivist> but its over the puddle
[20:23:43] <JT-Shop> two more parts to powder coat and I'm off to town
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[20:47:13] <Tom_itx> JT-Shop, is that programming gcode or other?
[20:50:05] <jdh> or ladder
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[20:54:24] <JT-Shop> PLC ladder
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[20:57:43] <Tom_itx> what do you charge to 'walk me thru it' ?
[20:57:55] <Tom_itx> 200/hr?
[20:59:18] <JT-Shop> teachers get more I think
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[21:03:36] <archivist> if you cannot do it...teach it
[21:03:56] <JT-Shop> http://imagebin.org/268834
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[21:04:23] <Tom_itx> nice
[21:04:48] <archivist> damn...the background stock is out of focus
[21:05:22] <Tom_itx> are those the fixtures for them on the shelf?
[21:09:25] <JT-Shop> lower right corner is a fixture, rest is free stock
[21:09:39] <Tom_itx> now you need a spyder trailer so you can carry all your stock with you. when someone pulls you over and says 'wow where did you get that cool part' you can show them :D
[21:10:06] <JT-Shop> http://gnipsel.com/images/RS622-03.jpg
[21:10:40] <Tom_itx> wow where did you get all those cool parts?
[21:11:03] <JT-Shop> cool parts?
[21:11:22] <archivist> hmm tripod so you can ride drunk ?
[21:11:39] <Tom_itx> and a trailer for the white lightening
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[21:12:57] <Tom_itx> are those water or air cooled?
[21:13:30] <JT-Shop> yes both are water cooled
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[21:19:01] <DJ9DJ_> gn8
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[21:19:39] <archivist> my fun for the day was....emergency stop on the steam engine
[21:20:48] <PCW> sounds exciting...
[21:21:49] <JT-Shop> didn't know steam engines had an emergency stop
[21:22:07] <archivist> then hold, till someone finishes jamming lead into a leak
[21:22:31] <archivist> human has to think and hold a lever to stop it
[21:23:11] <JT-Shop> have to balance it somehow?
[21:23:28] <JT-Shop> like when they stopped the engine on the San Pablo?
[21:24:01] <archivist> yes, keep steam on and hold the transfer valve lever up in the air
[21:24:18] <archivist> not seen that so dunno
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[21:31:14] <archivist> our engine is sort of an inverted version of http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C7yARCOGdnA&list=PLB14BA30792CD35EF&index=1
[21:31:15] <Tecan> (C7yARCOGdnA) "Driving a Cornish Bull Pumping Engine" by "CopperhouseFilms" is "Tech" - Length: 0:05:41
[21:36:22] <CaptHindsight> is somebody reviving the work on using a camera/microscope for alignment? I seem to recall a discussion on webcams for this a few days ago, but i can't find it now in the scrollback
[21:37:59] <archivist> I remember that too
[21:39:15] <CaptHindsight> I'm using microscope mounted on the Z-axis next to scan surfaces and get coordinates for alignment
[21:39:29] <CaptHindsight> this is on a 5-axis stage
[21:39:51] <CaptHindsight> should be easy to use for 3 axis pcb type work
[21:46:40] <archivist> the axis alignment has to be good though, I tried a few ideas a number of years ago
[21:47:21] <archivist> I want to align axes of tooling and the rotaries
[21:48:04] <archivist> like http://www.archivist.info/cnc/cnccam.html
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[21:50:38] <andypugh> archivist: Where was that? (I was at the Isle of Wight steam railway yesterday and today, with the fire engine)
[21:51:02] <archivist> where was what ?
[21:51:30] <andypugh> Where dod you do an emergency stop on a steam engine.
[21:51:34] <andypugh> (did)
[21:51:46] <archivist> engine driving was at Leawood pumhouse
[21:52:02] <archivist> pump house
[21:52:57] <archivist> where that really means the first chance of holding a lever in a fixed state
[21:53:29] <andypugh> Ooh, interesting. I have spent quite a lot of time down Peak District mines, which often have extremely similar buildings.
[21:54:12] <archivist> we run it about 6-7 weekends a year
[21:55:13] <andypugh> There was a lovely steam-driven merry-go-round at the steam railway.
[21:55:49] <archivist> two went into the basement to bung the leak in the gasket while it was running but were getting soaked, yelled to stop
[21:56:25] <CaptHindsight> archivist: using openCV here to automate scanning for detecting edges, missed spots, defects etc for alignment of tooling, lasers, nozzles etc
[21:56:34] <andypugh> Low-pressure Cornish steam I guess, otherwise they wouldn't be yelling ever again.
[21:56:39] <archivist> one is then stuck on the driving platform with visitors wandering by
[21:57:19] <archivist> leak is on the water pump not steam pipes
[21:57:27] <andypugh> Ah.
[21:57:46] <archivist> CaptHindsight, I dont think that was around when I was playing
[21:58:15] <archivist> pump moves 4 tons, 800 gals per stoke
[21:58:24] <archivist> stroke
[21:58:38] <andypugh> If you ever see a Gwynne fire pump like this: http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_k0B_dQ8jnXE/Sn8-qoWjUnI/AAAAAAAAA2E/0EHWYlHILOY/s400/Gwynne+Fire+Pump.jpg let me know :-)
[21:58:59] <archivist> you broke one ?
[21:59:08] <andypugh> It was removed in the war
[21:59:31] <archivist> good excuse to make a replica
[22:00:39] <andypugh> We have a 1920s Tomini pump, which is actually a much better pump and was still being fitted to new fire engines in the 1980s.
[22:01:06] <andypugh> But the original Gwynne was huge and cast-iron, and would help the ride :-)
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[22:04:53] <archivist> this huge ? http://www.collection.archivist.info/archive/DJCPD/PD/2009/2009_09_14_Tees_Cottage/P1010082.JPG
[22:05:11] <archivist> I dont think he would be happy :)
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[22:08:53] <andypugh> I am pretty sure that the the exact same pump as my picture. FA1075 is LP8389's older sister.
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[23:00:48] <nspielbe> so i am trying to combine two hal files together on with my mesa working code and one with the skeleton of my defaulkt scara config but they are so different its hard to parse what to combine
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[23:38:46] <JT-Shop> well she got a comunnication error and gave up... so it is a remote service call now.
[23:45:25] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: ?
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[23:46:40] <JT-Shop> you had to have been there
[23:47:20] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: what is "she" though
[23:47:22] <Jymmm> ?
[23:47:31] <JT-Shop> customer
[23:47:41] <Jymmm> ah
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