#linuxcnc | Logs for 2013-08-22

[00:00:23] <false> Have fun nfsing :P I'm going to sleep, I need to get up in about 3 hours :(
[00:00:50] <false> you pulled me into it ;-)
[00:02:02] <andypugh> Ohh, sorry.
[00:02:20] <andypugh> I can still use flexitime to get a full night of sleep :-)
[00:02:40] <false> No problem, glad I could help
[00:02:52] <false> You lucky bastard
[00:02:53] <andypugh> Thanks for the help.
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[01:01:00] <Tecan> i should fancy something up
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[05:21:16] <chopper79> Hello everyone.... I am working with a rotary axis and have gotten the axis to work but have run into a couple small issues. #1 the image does not appear correctly in the axis display. I would think that the wrapped gcode would display length wise instead of flat. If I have a piece of round stock in my rotary the display shows the gcode as being flat and not displayed the length of the stock. Any pointers on this? I can
[05:21:55] <chopper79> The commanded feed is 50ipm but the feed shown is about 2ipm when A and Y move together
[05:25:23] <archivist> I live with the display, my brains sorts it out, but you can change the order in the ini so they stack XYZA being the usual
[05:26:47] <chopper79> I tried xyza but it comes out length wise but does not show the actual image. axyz shows the wrapped image but its flat to one axis. I guess that is the best view and showing the actual wrap is not possible?
[05:28:35] <archivist> also the speed is a compromise at the moment, it would be nice to have something like the css that the lathe mode has, usually it is suggested you use the inverse-time mode when using the rotary
[05:30:00] <archivist> the display is worse for me as I have A mounted on B
[05:32:04] <chopper79> I willcheck into the inverse time mode
[05:35:50] <chopper79> Just tried xyaz for the order in the ini and the image appears wrapped (kinda) in the x perspective.
[05:36:08] <chopper79> Guess I can live with that
[05:36:48] <chopper79> The speed is still crazy slow even with inverse-time. Anyt other suggestions?
[05:38:44] <archivist> I end up with silly numbers for the feed speed, I also think my slowness is also related to having steppers on the rotary so it just cannot go fast enough
[05:40:26] <archivist> are you hand coding or using cam with many short moves
[05:41:12] <chopper79> I tried cncwrapper v3.0
[05:43:30] <chopper79> Uses short moves so I figure that is part of the issue also.
[05:44:42] <archivist> yes look ahead is only one move so the stop start acceleration/deceleration limit the speed
[05:44:44] <chopper79> I ended up at 1800 deg/min for the rotary speed. But it gets nowhere close when running code.
[05:45:24] <archivist> I hand code so have long moves and never see that problem
[05:45:37] <chopper79> It will hit the programmed speed if only one axis is moving at a time but once two axis ormore get going then the speed drops big time
[05:47:29] <archivist> iirc the TP planner is a bit funky when mixing axes, it does not know the real surface speed that you think you are programming (it does not know the radius)
[05:48:01] <archivist> one of the reasons people say use inverse-time mode
[05:54:53] <chopper79> I will have to edit my post so it sticks the G93 in and also a F for each move
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[06:43:14] <DJ9DJ> moin
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[07:26:02] <Loetmichel> mornin'
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[09:35:04] <false> I'm unable to register at linuxcnc.org, is something wrong?
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[09:41:34] <archivist> it is rather fussy due to previous spam
[09:42:20] <archivist> I do think it has had some over broad filters added
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[10:17:27] <false> it errors out, after entering my info i get redirected to the following url: http://www.linuxcnc.org/index.php/component/comprofiler/?option=com_comprofiler&task=registers&essp_err=check_failed ,which shows a very strange layout i.e. double items
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[10:20:11] <false> ok problem solved, I entered no zip code and it worked, I'm from The Netherlands so I can only enter 4 numbers, this does however not generate a clear error
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[10:23:46] <false> pcw_home: Are you there, I'm afraid I need your help again
[10:26:21] <jthornton> it's 3:23 am at Peters house
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[10:55:13] <false> hehe, probably not then :P
[10:55:32] <false> I forgot he's from the US
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[11:22:08] <Jymmm> pcw_home: http://dx.com//p/184855 -----> http://www.nitecore.com/productDetail.aspx?id=52
[11:23:10] <Jymmm> pcw_home: Heh... http://www.amazon.com/Nitecore-i2-Intellicharge-Charger-Battery/dp/B0096U26QQ
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[11:42:16] <false> Does hm2_5i20.0.encoder.[encoder].velocity output mm/s on a mm machine?
[11:47:47] <pcw_home> yes if the encoder scale is in mm (man hostmot2)
[11:48:24] <false> yes just read that, stupid me, I thought it was rps
[11:48:37] <false> so my tacho scale was way off
[11:50:08] <false> I just devided 6 by 1000 which gave me v/rpm and than devided that by 60 to get rps. Explains a lot, sorry for wasting your time yesterday
[11:51:39] <false> Is there a rpm variable I can use, or do I need to calculate rpm from mm/s and feed that to the 7i33 connected to the tacho
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[11:54:19] <pcw_home> For the axis motor RPM you would have to scale it
[11:59:22] <false> Ok, I'll go and do that. Just one other thing, yesterday I discovered that I could not tune for 0 drift on the drive with PID disabled. So I redid the wiring, also checked for noise with a scope, couldn't find anything worth mentioning. But than I connect my DMM to check the voltage on the input, as soon as I did that I could tune for 0 drift, removing the DMM cause the axis to drift and be
[11:59:23] <false> untunable for 0 drift. This is repeatable on all 3 drives. I measured the input at 300 Ohms, while the manual for the 7i33 states it should be at least 5KOhm, could this be the problem?
[12:01:12] <pcw_home> 300 Ohms must be some kind of wiring problem (or input offset that causes the meter to read wrong)
[12:01:48] <pcw_home> makes no sense for an analog input to be 300 Oms
[12:01:58] <pcw_home> Ohms
[12:02:30] <false> Ok, trying a different DMM might give different results?
[12:03:03] <false> But still, connecting the DMM has a very real effect on the drive
[12:03:35] <pcw_home> HF oscillation maybe?
[12:04:01] <Jymmm> floating ground? Ground loop?
[12:04:22] <pcw_home> floating ground does sound possible
[12:07:43] <false> Floating ground on the drive you mean?
[12:07:58] <pcw_home> One way to verify the input impedance when its actually running is to put a small resistor in series with
[12:08:00] <pcw_home> the 7I33s analog output (say 100 Ohm) and measure the drop across the resistor when the output is
[12:08:01] <pcw_home> close to full scale (with a floating meter)
[12:08:37] <pcw_home> is this a hand held DVM?
[12:10:08] <false> Yes, I have a high-end fluke, and a mid-end voltcraft
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[12:10:21] <false> measured with the Fluke bdw
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[12:10:56] <false> I will try this experiment
[12:11:18] <pcw_home> measured at 7I33 end?
[12:12:22] <false> measured at the drives end, right on the testpins on the control board
[12:13:38] <pcw_home> Sounds like the drive has too much load either resistance or capacitive so I would try the resistor experiment
[12:16:18] <Jymmm> pcw_home: ARE YOU MAD?! Nobody tries the resistor experiment!!! You remember the last time someone tried the resistor experiment (RIP), and the whole village burned to the ground, and little Johnny couldn't eat solid food for a week!!!
[12:16:27] <false> :P
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[12:16:53] <false> I don't know little Johnny so.......
[12:17:34] <Jymmm> ¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿ WONT SOMEBODY THINK OF THE CHILDREN ?????????
[12:19:12] <false> pcw_home: Just picked an old analog meter from my cabinet for fun, guess what, the inputs are at 78K
[12:21:29] <false> So got my Fluke back on there, also measured 78K. Sooooo, I think I measured with the 7i33 connected yesterday. I have been working 20h days since late july so my concentration span is like that of a squerl.
[12:21:44] <false> Back to the floating ground then?
[12:22:34] <pcw_home> Yeah or oscillation
[12:22:40] <Jymmm> false: In your cabling, did you ground both ends of the shielding?
[12:22:54] <false> Nope, just the 7i33 side
[12:23:21] <false> That's what I am supposed to do right?
[12:23:29] <Jymmm> In your squirleness, could you have?
[12:24:01] <false> Double checked for you, no I just terminated at the 7i33
[12:24:24] <Jymmm> ok. Yes, only ground one end of shield
[12:24:56] <Jymmm> false: Mains, properly wired?
[12:25:44] <false> Original machine wiring, seems to be in order
[12:25:58] <Jymmm> false: No, not machine. Wall socket
[12:26:28] <pcw_home> Yes if the drives have single ended inputs its:
[12:26:29] <pcw_home> 7I33 AOUT --> drive AIN
[12:26:31] <pcw_home> 7I33 GND --> drive AGND
[12:26:32] <pcw_home> 7I33 GND -- cable shield at 7I33 end only
[12:26:59] <false> Yes that's what I did
[12:27:30] <false> Jymmm: socket is wired correctly, pe is working
[12:27:43] <Jymmm> PE?
[12:28:12] <false> Protective Earth
[12:28:20] <false> Or didnt you mean that>
[12:28:29] <pcw_home> I would tend to put a scope on it and see if there any oscillation (with and without DVM)
[12:29:27] <Jymmm> I used to get shocked every time I would touc a PC when I was barefoot. Found a unconnected GND in the electrical panel.
[12:29:44] <pcw_home> if a floating DVM does this it sounds like instability to me
[12:30:03] <Jymmm> pcw_home: in what though?
[12:30:09] <false> Instability on the output?
[12:30:25] <false> I will check with the scope
[12:30:42] * Tom_itx sneaks by and disconnects Jymmm's gnd again
[12:30:44] <pcw_home> Too much capacitive load can make the analog outputs oscillate
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[12:31:28] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: You're gonna need a taller ladder to do that now =)
[12:34:36] <pcw_home> I have a friend that had the neutral get disconnected at the neighborhood pole transformer.
[12:34:38] <pcw_home> whole bunch of houses had fun with ~0 to 220 on the 110 v outlets depending on the balance
[12:34:39] <pcw_home> (which kept shifting as people turned things on and off trying to see what was wrong)
[12:34:54] <Jymmm> lol
[12:35:34] <Jymmm> pcw_home: GND wasn't bonded with NEUTRAL for most of them?
[12:36:47] <pcw_home> doesnt help if the pole neutral is open
[12:37:11] <Jymmm> pcw_home: I know why I am, but whats your excuse for being up so early?
[12:37:15] <Jymmm> Ah
[12:38:38] <pcw_home> went to bed early, and Kathy got up so I figured it was time
[12:38:50] <Jymmm> heh
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[12:39:27] <pcw_home> Though she couldn't sleep because she just had a root canal
[12:39:43] <Jymmm> no drugs?
[12:39:55] <pcw_home> just advil
[12:40:13] <pcw_home> and antibiotics
[12:40:25] <Jymmm> HUH?! They didn't her a Rx for Codiene or Vicodene?
[12:41:08] <pcw_home> nope
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[12:42:02] <eric_unterhause1> I got a prescription for vicoden for my ingrown toenail
[12:42:08] <Jymmm> That doesn't sound right. Have her dentist call/fax in a Rx to her pharmacy directly for some
[12:42:10] <eric_unterhause1> didn't fill it though
[12:42:26] <Jymmm> pcw_home: That doesn't sound right. Have her dentist call/fax in a Rx to her pharmacy directly for some
[12:43:26] <eric_unterhause1> dentists will almost always give a rx for tylenol III, which has narcotics in it
[12:43:38] <Jymmm> pcw_home: Just have al the pharmacy info ready (name address phone fax)
[12:43:39] <eric_unterhause1> but with my root canals, there was no pain
[12:44:11] <eric_unterhause1> so I'm guessing the entodontists aren't as likely to give those prescriptions
[12:44:30] <pcw_home> She said it wasn't bad either (and OK with the advil)
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[12:45:42] <eric_unterhause1> I only took them once, they have unpleasant side effects
[12:45:53] <Jymmm> pcw_home: It's not a bad idea to always have some on had incase of ever a broken tooth, etc/ T3 = 30mg Codeine and 300mg Acetaminophen (Tylenol).
[12:45:59] <Jymmm> hand*
[12:46:55] <pcw_home> Most amazing pain killer I know is Toradol but I think you only get that once
[12:48:03] <Jymmm> I've had it injected and it was ok, but had side effects taken orally
[12:48:39] <pcw_home> Yeah its only for short term use
[12:50:05] <Jymmm> pcw_home: Even if she's not going to take it, have her get the Codiene anyway
[12:50:42] <pcw_home> Not a bad idea to have around
[12:51:16] <Jymmm> pcw_home: I've had some nasty Rx fubar's an the Dr was unavailable and on a three day weekend cra before
[12:51:28] <Jymmm> crap*
[12:52:11] <pcw_home> bbl
[12:52:17] <Jymmm> k
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[12:54:54] <jdh> I have 4 or 5 bottles of 30, each full, or with maybe 1 taken.
[12:55:17] <Jymmm> jdh: T3 ?
[12:55:26] <jdh> vicodin & friends
[12:55:51] <Jymmm> Ah. I have lots of those, but would like T3 instead.
[12:55:54] <jdh> nasty stuff.
[12:56:13] <Jymmm> Yep, fucks with my head too much.
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[12:56:56] <jdh> I had the flu a couple of years ago. Took one then and it was ok.
[12:57:03] <Jymmm> lol
[12:57:24] <Jymmm> jdh: why would you take a pain killer for the flu?
[12:57:50] <false> Headaches?
[12:58:03] <Jymmm> false: Vicodene?
[12:58:17] <Jymmm> Vicodin
[12:58:19] <false> O misunderstood
[12:58:33] <jdh> pain
[12:58:35] <Jymmm> =)
[12:58:45] <false> Thats a bit much for a headache :P
[12:58:47] <Jymmm> jdh: Damn, some pain
[12:59:34] <jdh> it is actually pretty good for that. After days of congestion & coughing. It is also a cough suppressant
[13:02:26] <Loetmichel> false: depends on the headace
[13:03:19] <Loetmichel> i have migraine sometimes... viodin would be great, but wouldnt get that in germany
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[13:05:24] <false> Scope: Oscillations 50ns in lenght shaped like an M and then an inverted M about 120mvPP, connection de DVM does not make diffence, also not able to tune for 0 drift anymore, has to be a wiring problem
[13:06:57] <false> I'm gonna start with the wall socket again and work my way to the drive
[13:08:38] <Loetmichel> so i default to diclofenac
[13:09:37] <Jymmm> false: Make a new plan, Stan. You don't need to be coy, Roy. Just get yourself free
[13:10:01] <false> Always good to quote a classic
[13:10:11] <Jymmm> =)
[13:10:36] <jdh> Loetmichel: never heard of that one.
[13:11:29] <Jymmm> jdh: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diclofenac#Trade_names
[13:11:29] <jdh> my daughter had migraines. Took her to lots of Dr's, lots of drugs, MRIs, thousands of $$$... took her back to the eye dr. and got glasses and they went away.
[13:12:01] <Jymmm> jdh: fucking doctors
[13:12:26] <jdh> yeah... the neurologist was the worst.
[13:12:27] <Loetmichel> jdh: brand name would be "voltaren" in germany
[13:13:45] <jdh> never heard of anyone getting that here. I've gotten hydrocodone Rx for things that had pretty much no pain.
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[13:15:24] <Loetmichel> jdh: diclofenac is mostly for "inflamed muscle/joints" kind of pain
[13:15:43] <jdh> I like naproxen sodium for that
[13:16:19] <Loetmichel> but it works great for the "out of nothing" kind of BAD headache.
[13:16:40] <Loetmichel> especiall when its So bad that i close the blinds on the windows
[13:17:08] <Loetmichel> because of "light hurts"
[13:17:10] <false> Just walked past the radio and heared a very faint 'plopping', like an old diesel engine. Disabled the 7i33 and it stopped, something is oscilating on the pc's mainboard to. Switching pc's just to be sure, had to do that anyway.
[13:17:40] <jdh> got oozing caps?
[13:19:20] <Jymmm> that sounds SO bad! haha
[13:22:02] <false> Gonna check later, if so, there might be some throwing pc out of the window action
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[13:24:32] <jdh> I've run across a lot of flakey MBs lately with bad caps
[13:27:10] <false> Could this cause this kind of behaviour, if the vcc for the pci slot oscilates this could easy migrate to the 7i33 outputs?
[13:33:23] <Loetmichel> jdh: you mean: like this? -> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=5675
[13:33:40] <Loetmichel> me too, had a lot of boards with that fault lately
[13:34:16] <jdh> the last batch were worse than that. tops were popped on a few.
[13:34:57] <Loetmichel> right
[13:35:11] <Loetmichel> the TFT PSUs are just bad design
[13:35:19] <Loetmichel> to much heat around the caps
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[13:35:32] <Loetmichel> but the older mainboards have issues with the wrong electrolyte
[13:36:11] <Loetmichel> there was a incident with a chemist switching companys and taking the (incomplete) formula with him
[13:36:30] <jdh> I've heard several variations on that story.
[13:38:04] <Valen> I heard it was a sabotaged formula
[13:39:07] <TekniQue> my old Abit BP6 suffered from that problem
[13:39:29] <TekniQue> it failed when it was 6 months old or so
[13:39:31] <Valen> it can be good
[13:39:46] <Valen> a friend of mine got a rather nice 24" LCD for the price of a few caps
[13:39:55] <TekniQue> computer started locking up if doing anything cpu intensive that put more strain on the power supply
[13:40:09] <Valen> I got him to replace them with low ESR caps which should hopefully heat less and last longer
[13:40:12] <jdh> I have a system with 6 2U rackmount PC's. 3 of them did it
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[14:00:54] <CaptHindsight> short electrolytic capacitor life is by design, but the products tend to just outlive their warranty period
[14:02:52] <CaptHindsight> it's when too many of a product fails under warranty that it becomes a concern for the manufacturers
[14:03:16] <jdh> I've heard of some applications where cap replacement was a PM item.
[14:04:09] <CaptHindsight> yes, several. LCD power supplies are probably #1
[14:06:24] <CaptHindsight> it's not only the electrolyte chemistry but the insulators as well, similar to the Li-ion battery problem in laptops a few years ago
[14:07:19] <CaptHindsight> how many corners can a component manufacturer cut before it actually comes back to hurt them?
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[14:12:56] <CaptHindsight> http://www.digikey.com/product-search/en/capacitors/aluminum-capacitors/131081?k=1000uF take a look at the selection guide ^^
[14:13:52] <CaptHindsight> column #8 Lifetime @ Temp.
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[14:14:30] <Loetmichel> CaptHindsight: on the TFT PSU in the photo above i would put my money on "panned obsolecense" ... because the caps fail every 6 months like a clockwork
[14:14:38] <Loetmichel> +l
[14:16:06] <Loetmichel> ok, that are 19" hannsG monitors, so i had to expect something like that. still annoying. and if i werent able to replace them: ~150 dollars times two in the wind after half a year.
[14:16:13] <CaptHindsight> Loetmichel: yes, you can try to fit higher voltage and longer life caps in their place if there is room on the PCB
[14:16:22] <Loetmichel> there isnt
[14:16:43] <CaptHindsight> just a cheap design then
[14:16:51] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=8767
[14:17:33] <Loetmichel> have fittet a bit better caps now... but look at the colour of the pcb... still wondering that the CCFL inverter dont falil, too
[14:17:56] <Loetmichel> (SMD fets are on the back of the PCB, traces as cooling)
[14:18:32] <Loetmichel> that isnt "cheap design". That HAS to be intentional
[14:20:20] <CaptHindsight> run by pathological cheapskates
[14:21:35] <CaptHindsight> how much time spent reengineering vs spending a few $$ more per power supply
[14:23:00] <CaptHindsight> I imagine they made a few protos, then measured the temps and guesstimated the MTBF
[14:23:20] <Loetmichel> more like "how can we make that fail shortly after the gurantee period so the dumb customer will buy a new one?"
[14:23:46] <Loetmichel> s/shortly/as short as possible
[14:23:53] <CaptHindsight> yes, but you don't want them to fail too soon, just past the warranty
[14:24:09] <Loetmichel> oh, sorry, i meant warranty
[14:24:23] <Loetmichel> my german kicks in sometimes ;-)
[14:27:12] <CaptHindsight> Loetmichel: any way to add fans to the back of the display?
[14:28:02] <Loetmichel> no, but it seems to be better now.
[14:28:24] <Loetmichel> the one display taht got the bigger caps hasnt failed me fot about a year
[14:28:58] <CaptHindsight> I modified an original PS3 with a few fans and it's probably the one of the few around that works with lots of use
[14:29:11] <Loetmichel> the other one begins again with flickering just these das, about 7 months after changing its caps the tird time ;-)
[14:29:17] <Loetmichel> days
[14:30:33] <CaptHindsight> I have a TFT here that I have to get around to replacing the ~20 caps that are bulging
[14:31:49] <Loetmichel> at least my company buys HP or dell for its monitors... would be a PITA to repair them
[14:32:01] <CaptHindsight> the first thing that died was the hard drive. No airflow since they only used a 25mm fan that dies after 1 year
[14:32:50] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=14412 <- 138 m3 stainless screws on each...
[14:33:38] <Loetmichel> and about 12 kg heavy (1mm zinc plated steel case)
[14:34:09] <CaptHindsight> what screw guns are for :)
[14:34:11] <Loetmichel> and a 1mm glass in front of the TFT wit a copper micromesh on it ;-)
[14:37:00] <Loetmichel> ... we had delivered some a few months ago... 3 came back with "something clunkcing around inside"... i had forgotten to put loctite on the bolts from the unused vga sockets inside. :-(
[14:37:37] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=12007 <- so i had to open them again...
[14:37:45] <Loetmichel> silly me...
[14:37:47] <Loetmichel> :-(
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[14:51:39] <CaptHindsight> I have a Sat receiver that still lives by just increasing the airflow through it. All the Broadcon chips have no heat sinks, and it also uses the poor 25mm hard drive fan design.
[14:53:52] <CaptHindsight> better caps, larger heatsinks and fans or more airflow make most products last for years vs <2
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[14:55:25] <jdh> I've got two PDP11/73s that have been running 24/7 since 1989ish
[14:56:31] <jdh> DEC knew how to make cases & PSUs
[14:56:33] <CaptHindsight> and anything gaming console related just get the extended warranty full exchange warranty
[14:57:29] <CaptHindsight> headsets, joysticks, racing wheels etc etc all seem to die in 3-6 months
[14:59:34] <CaptHindsight> jdh: back when they still built things with quality in mind
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[15:03:12] <CaptHindsight> Branding replaced interest in quality and reliability
[15:03:47] <CaptHindsight> then came forced obsolescence
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[15:09:43] <CaptHindsight> even replacement auto parts from the big chains are junk, you have to shop around or order OEM, unless you want to replace it again soon
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[15:15:05] <CaptHindsight> an all-in-one hybrid additive/subtractive CNC device that can print, cut, mill and scan. http://www.indiegogo.com/projects/fabtotum-personal-fabricator
[15:15:30] <CaptHindsight> heh "Z precision up to 0,47 microns"
[15:15:46] <CaptHindsight> more like 47um
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[15:21:47] <Loetmichel> CaptHindsight: a bit pricey and not really useful as a mill
[15:22:05] <Loetmichel> look in the video how the mill bit is all over the place
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[15:39:37] <CaptHindsight> Loetmichel: I didn't even make it that far into their info. The concept is on track but the execution is poor
[15:41:56] <CaptHindsight> I bet we could get some fancy cheese slices out of it
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[16:18:01] <Loetmichel> CaptHindsight: Cheese could work... more or less ;-)
[16:18:14] <Loetmichel> ... but only chester, no parmesan ;)
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[16:21:00] <jmasseo> thjis is the second printer/mill combo I've seen
[16:21:48] <jmasseo> will this even mill the plastic that it prints with?
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[16:28:51] <Loetmichel> jmasseo: when the redesign the milling head to something more sturdy and better bearings it may be even useable for harder woods
[16:28:59] <Loetmichel> and plastic of course
[16:29:05] <Loetmichel> but metals: no way
[16:29:12] <jmasseo> who is hte other one?
[16:29:13] <jmasseo> metronics?
[16:29:27] <Loetmichel> one can use a CNC mill as a "reprap" bootstrap.
[16:29:37] <Loetmichel> ... a slow one that is...
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[16:30:27] <Loetmichel> but not the other way around, a 3dprinter simply isnt rigid enough for milling forces. and the steppers are way to small to cope with any real milling forces
[16:31:57] <Loetmichel> if i had to desing a mill/scan/printcombo i would make a gantry mill with ball nut drives with very low tpi and big DC servo motors
[16:32:12] <Loetmichel> so it can move fast but also powerful
[16:32:31] <Loetmichel> THAN you can print AND mill with the same machine
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[16:37:59] <ktchk> Is then a way to change Gcode to mill a workpiece that is mounted some degrade off vertical line?
[16:38:13] <ktchk> degree
[16:38:25] <cradek> what do you mean by off vertical?
[16:38:39] <jdh> what woudl be the point of making such a device?
[16:39:16] <ktchk> mount a workpiece and that is not perfectly vertical
[16:39:58] <ktchk> but have to work on that piece as if that is vertical
[16:40:27] <cradek> that might be possible with a 5 axis mill, because the head could tilt so the tool is still perpendicular to the features where that is required
[16:41:01] <cradek> but what you are asking for is not possible on a 3 axis mill because the tool remains vertical while your workpiece is not
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[16:41:32] <ktchk> can remount the workpiece or change the gcode to suit the workpiece
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[16:42:54] <cradek> I guess I don't understand what you are asking.
[16:43:02] <cpresser> ktchk: you can do this if your workpiece is just misaligned in x or y, or hast some rotation around the z-axis. check out 'grecode'
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[16:43:48] <ktchk> so x y gcode can change say 3 degree or so?
[16:43:54] <cradek> maybe you could share a picture that explains what kind of mounting error you're talking about. you are not being sufficiently clear in your questions.
[16:44:55] <ktchk> grecode in german?
[16:45:16] <cpresser> http://code.google.com/p/grecode/
[16:45:45] <jdh> that rotates around Z?
[16:46:09] <cradek> you don't need to change the gcode to rotate around Z in linuxcnc
[16:46:34] <ReadError> grecode is nice
[16:46:39] <ReadError> if you rotate you need to shift
[16:46:40] <jdh> g10 l2
[16:46:50] <ReadError> otherwise the origin will be backwards
[16:47:29] <cradek> what
[16:49:30] <ktchk> that is used under auto cutter check with video camera marked with circles or cross
[16:49:39] <ktchk> nice
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[16:55:26] <IchGuckLive> hi all B)
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[17:11:02] <ReadError> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1OPSbF6kM9k <--- this is amazing
[17:11:03] <ReadError> i need
[17:11:03] <Tecan> (1OPSbF6kM9k) "Inside Adam Savage's Cave: The Tool Boxes" by "Tested" is "Tech" - Length: 0:05:48
[17:13:36] <IchGuckLive> some got it like a god
[17:15:05] <CaptHindsight> $2K for the storage of about the same in hardware, or $10K in hardware of you shop at Ace, Home Depot, Loews etc
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[17:32:46] <Chemeleon> looks like he has a better selection than even my local hardware stores :)
[17:37:50] <IchGuckLive> some got a lot of good stuff
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[18:08:01] <IchGuckLive> im off by
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[18:20:08] <JT-Shop> I hate when I do that
[18:20:49] <AR__> andypugh,
[18:21:05] <andypugh> Hm?
[18:21:09] <AR__> i took your advise and used my cordless drill to tap the holes in my fixture plate
[18:21:11] <AR__> worked fine
[18:21:39] <AR__> i went with 3/8-16 so it was a little bigger and stronger tap also
[18:21:56] <andypugh> It's one of those things that feel wrong until you do it.
[18:22:05] <AR__> with a little oil, a normal taper tap went right through no problem
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[18:22:34] <AR__> i thought for sure it wouldnt work so easily :P
[18:23:39] <AR__> http://i.imgur.com/7d69rHi.jpg
[18:24:36] <AR__> (two plates)
[18:25:17] <jdh> looks like 3 plates
[18:25:33] <AR__> wat
[18:25:35] <dosas> hello, i have a pyvcp pin called pyvcp.pid-en
[18:25:35] <AR__> just the 2 on top
[18:25:48] <dosas> now i want to use a custom m code to enable it
[18:25:56] <dosas> since it is a pin i cannot use setp p
[18:26:04] <dosas> is this possible
[18:26:08] <jdh> AR: I need one of those.
[18:26:27] <jdh> but, I'd rather have 10-32 holes.
[18:27:05] <jdh> put them on the line between the fixed ones.
[18:27:07] <jdh> <urk>
[18:28:02] <AR__> 10-32 is small
[18:28:22] <andypugh> dosas: You can use setp with a pin
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[18:30:01] <jdh> yeah, I mostly want one to through-bolt a partially made part to the tooling fixture
[18:30:23] <AR__> ah
[18:31:03] <dosas> andypugh: I tried this
[18:31:06] <dosas> halcmd setp pyvcp.pid-en 1
[18:31:27] <jdh> lately, I have just been drilling/tapping a piece of Al plate to fit the part
[18:31:30] <dosas> to type into a terminal while linuxcnc was running since it didn't work in the script
[18:31:43] <dosas> but i got the error <commandline>:0: pin 'pyvcp.pid-en' is not writable
[18:35:46] <andypugh> Is it an input pin or an output pin?
[18:37:20] <dosas> it is a checkbox so would say input?
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[18:37:59] <andypugh> No, a checkbox is an output (from the GUI to HAL)
[18:39:54] <dosas> okay
[18:40:18] <andypugh> You can drive an LED with setp
[18:40:23] <dosas> so what i would like to do is, to enable the checkbox or let's say the pid via a custom m code
[18:40:55] <andypugh> Do you want the checkbox to also be controlable from the GUI?
[18:41:00] <dosas> yes
[18:41:20] <dosas> preferably
[18:41:29] <dosas> but the m code is more important
[18:41:51] <dosas> net pid_en pid.0.enable
[18:41:52] <dosas> net pid_en pwmgen.0.enable
[18:41:52] <dosas> net pid_en pyvcp.pid-en
[18:41:55] <andypugh> LinuxCNC only really likes a pin to be controlled from one place
[18:42:02] <dosas> so maybe i should put that in here too
[18:43:19] <dosas> so you mean i should define a new pin
[18:43:26] <dosas> to test without the gui
[18:45:21] <andypugh> That's up to you
[18:49:52] <dosas> but it is not possible to define a new pin right that's only possible with signals
[18:50:22] <andypugh> Yes
[18:50:53] <andypugh> In HAL. But a HA: component can create as many pins as it wants
[18:51:08] <andypugh> As can a GUI
[18:51:38] <andypugh> You _probably_ just want to sets a signal
[19:03:18] <dosas> okay sets works if i set the pgain
[19:04:09] <cpresser> dosas: its not possible to set a pin/signal from two different places. but you could use a mux to switch between inputs.
[19:04:25] <dosas> but not with the checkbutton signal 'pid_en' already has writer(s)
[19:04:28] <cpresser> i use that for the spindle. i can set the spindle-speed via gcode, or via the gui
[19:04:38] <dosas> okay what is that a mux switch
[19:05:29] <cpresser> http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/man/man9/mux2.9.html
[19:06:21] <cpresser> you feed it two values, (GUI & M-Code-Set), and it only outputs one of them. which one is selected with an additional signal
[19:06:33] <dosas> okay i will look into that thank you
[19:13:31] <JT-Shop> I feel like I'm setting up 50 minutes out of each hour :(
[19:13:49] <Jymmm> setting up what?
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[19:21:41] <JT-Shop> mill, lathe, vmc, plasma ...
[19:22:19] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: Well, you're just making one-off's most of the time aren't you?
[19:22:22] <andypugh> JT-Shop: With CNC if you aren't setting up for 60 minutes of eachhour then you could be making more stuff
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[19:23:21] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: Just charge them $5000 for the first part, and $500 for each additional =)
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[19:26:56] <Jymmm> pcw_home: ping
[19:27:49] <Tom_itx> JT-Shop, you should get jobs that run longer
[19:27:49] <JT-Shop> andypugh: you have a valid point
[19:27:58] <Tom_itx> set up once and run for a month
[19:28:08] <JT-Shop> at least the crippled VMC can run 2 parts before it trips out
[19:28:35] <JT-Shop> the jobs I have are to make machinery not parts
[19:29:05] <andypugh> I am beginning to hate Linux
[19:29:06] <Tom_itx> one must question whether the parts are more easily made on conventional machines then
[19:29:08] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: But you have to fab parts for the machinery
[19:30:25] <andypugh> Spent all of last night trying to nfs-mount a share on the NAS. It finally worked, but not, it seems for any reason related to anything we did. It didn't auto-mount when I rebooted and it won't mount now even with the options from last night.
[19:30:46] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: The BEST thing about CNC... Ability to mass produce.
[19:30:49] <Tom_itx> i though you fixed it with the timeout increase
[19:30:54] <JT-Shop> it takes longer on the Enco mill to make anything
[19:31:01] <andypugh> I have clean-installed 12,04 and still no-go, so now I am going to clean-install the 10,04 Live-CD.
[19:31:07] <Jymmm> andypugh: Just do smb and forget it.
[19:31:29] <JT-Shop> Jymmm: my mass is usually 1 or 2 although I am making 10 parts for my Spyder store
[19:31:40] <Tom_itx> woah!
[19:31:53] <Tom_itx> how's that going btw?
[19:31:58] <andypugh> Can I share the same share to the Mac with NFS and the Linux machine with SMB? That sounds like asking for trouble.
[19:32:18] <cradek> SMB is always trouble
[19:32:26] <Jymmm> andypugh: win/osx/nix == all use smb
[19:32:27] <cradek> remember you don't have to listen to Jymmm
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[19:33:23] <Jymmm> cradek: smb isn't that bad
[19:33:42] <Tom_itx> if you must defend something... it must be
[19:35:07] <andypugh> Even with a clean install of 12.04 I can't access the machine by name etither.
[19:35:15] <JT-Shop> Tom_itx: slow getting started for sure, I have one part out for testing and fixing to send a different one out
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[19:35:35] <Jymmm> I see it like this... You can spand all your time fucking around with crap A on X, and Crap B on Y, or just let them all talk to each other via SMB and deal with the little annoyances
[19:36:11] <Jymmm> If you're moving massive (TB's) data, that's another story
[19:36:34] <andypugh> I was rather assuming as NFS is native to all the machines involvd that it would work better.
[19:36:49] <Jymmm> andypugh: OSX has NSF ?
[19:36:54] <Jymmm> NFS*
[19:36:55] <andypugh> Yes
[19:37:13] <Jymmm> andypugh: and you dont have any M$ boxes?
[19:37:15] <jdh> how does it handle resource forks over nfs?
[19:37:59] <andypugh> Oh, just don't ask. But it is equally ghastly with SMB
[19:38:23] <jdh> extra badly named files?
[19:38:30] <Jymmm> andypugh: Where is NFS on osx?
[19:40:34] <andypugh> I just can't be bothered with this conversation
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[19:40:49] <Jymmm> hahaha
[19:41:07] <jdh> resource forks do that to people.
[19:41:52] <Jymmm> Sounds like he's frustrated with it all. thus why I said just fuckit and use SMB across the board. It's the lesser of the evils.
[19:41:55] <jdh> I was just curious though, I've seen the crap left behind by smb -> osx
[19:42:23] <Jymmm> jdh: If it's a network share, you can disable the osx bullshit
[19:42:44] * Tom_itx blames Jymmm
[19:42:46] <Jymmm> jdh: that's an OSX annoyance to anything it has write access to
[19:43:05] <dosas> cpresser: yes this would work for floats but unluckily my pid-en is bool
[19:43:05] <Jymmm> jdh: plug in a thumbdrive, it lets poop trails
[19:43:11] <dosas> so i tried with floats
[19:43:12] <Jymmm> leves
[19:43:20] <Jymmm> leaves*
[19:43:42] <dosas> is works fine but they gui is not updated can only see the changes in the halmeter
[19:43:49] <cpresser> dosas: there is also a mux for bools
[19:43:55] <jdh> I haven't actually used a mac since the 80s. They make some really sexy hw though.
[19:44:02] <dosas> okay will use that
[19:44:07] <cpresser> if not, programm one. its easy when you start from the float-variant^^
[19:44:18] <dosas> but what about updating the gui
[19:44:24] <dosas> or am i asking for too much here
[19:44:29] <Jymmm> jdh: I got a new/used one a couple of months ago
[19:44:43] <Jymmm> jdh: t o replace my MBP
[19:45:28] <Jymmm> jdh: No install media at all. They now can internet install the OSX from a blank hdd =)
[19:46:08] <Jymmm> s/from/to/
[19:48:21] <dosas> casts are not an option in hal are they
[19:54:47] <JT-Shop> HAL is pretty simple really http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/html/hal/basic_hal.html
[19:57:49] <JT-Shop> or are you talking about when writing a HAL component?
[19:58:06] <dosas> JT-Shop: yes believe you, but the question here is: Can i update a pyvcp slider via hal
[19:58:21] * JT-Shop just thought the bleeding was under control
[19:58:58] <JT-Shop> I would say no to pyvcp and yes to a glade-vcp one
[19:59:17] <dosas> is it so much better?
[19:59:43] <JT-Shop> better is a hard word to qualify to... better for what?
[20:00:25] <JT-Shop> is pyvcp better for ease of programming and simple controls yes
[20:00:27] <dosas> for what i want to do ;)
[20:01:01] <JT-Shop> better for what you want to do yes
[20:02:15] <dosas> so you can say absolutely sure that i can update a slider with hal in glade-vcp
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[20:11:03] <dosas> yeah the answer is glade vcp but not today cya guys
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[20:30:00] <mozmck> Jymmm: I had several versions of Ubuntu where SMB simply would *not* work.
[20:30:48] <mozmck> It is working again on 12.04
[20:32:10] <mozmck> I had it all working fine and then upgraded to 10.04 or maybe it was 9.10 and it quit and I could not make it work.
[20:32:18] <Jymmm> mozmck: You can't fault the protocol for the distro
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[20:32:52] <mozmck> I'm afraid it was not the distro, it was changes in a newer version of samba.
[20:33:32] <Jymmm> mozmck: What can I say, I have no idea no idea of the env, etc
[20:33:33] <mozmck> I'm no samba expert, but I had managed to get in there and make shares and get it all working for several years.
[20:34:30] <mozmck> Anyhow, I finally used NFS and installed some NFS client on windows that would quit after 30 minutes until you rebooted (or payed them lots of money).
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[20:35:23] <mozmck> I found fuse over ssh to work pretty nicely as well - but I don't think I had a windows client for that.
[20:36:19] <mozmck> Now I use virtualbox to run windows for what little I need it for - and it runs way better than it ever did on native hardware :)
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[20:50:17] <Jymmm> VM's FTW
[20:54:05] <jmasseo> can't you mount with services for unix?
[20:55:07] <Jymmm> FreeNFS for windows http://sourceforge.net/projects/freenfs/
[20:56:18] <Jymmm> andypugh you're such a wuss! lol
[20:57:10] <Jymmm> http://freenfs.sourceforge.net/
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[21:02:14] <Jymmm> pcw_home: wake up
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[21:09:40] <DJ9DJ> gn8
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[21:48:32] <mozmck> I think services for unix is/was not available on the windows version I was running. I don't remember the details now.
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[21:56:29] <nspiel> is the motoridx output for encoders required for a 7i43 to run?
[21:56:45] <nspiel> even if the motors are limited to half of a revolution with limit switches
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[22:01:27] <greggo> Anyone get a 5i25 mesa to work with the C35 breakout board? trying to decide what firmware I should start with.
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[23:14:38] <Aero-Tec> JT-Shop, set making sure I have setting up the tool table right
[23:15:09] <Aero-Tec> select fixture and load main reference tool, tool1
[23:15:39] <Aero-Tec> move to home and set home
[23:16:31] <Aero-Tec> now do I select work piece and set the rest of the tools based on tool1?
[23:17:43] <Aero-Tec> or do I set all the other tool with fixture and then set work piece with tool one after I have loaded the stock and am ready to machine?
[23:19:53] <Aero-Tec> I am tempted to make a you tube video about setting linuxcnc up and getting it ready to use
[23:20:08] <Aero-Tec> would help others and clear things up some
[23:20:16] <Tom_itx> touchoff to workpiece is what i do
[23:20:45] <Aero-Tec> for each of the other tools
[23:20:47] <Tom_itx> set to fixture always screwed me up
[23:20:51] <Tom_itx> for all the tools
[23:20:56] <Aero-Tec> lol
[23:20:58] <Tom_itx> that's what i do
[23:21:03] <Aero-Tec> that was what I was doing
[23:21:22] <Aero-Tec> and yes set to fixture got me into a world of hurt
[23:21:34] <Aero-Tec> things going wild
[23:22:09] <Aero-Tec> being able to home sure makes things nice
[23:22:28] <Tom_itx> uh huh
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[23:24:03] <Aero-Tec> so what happens if tool one is a carbide and you change the insert to a new one, pointier or rounder?
[23:24:16] <Aero-Tec> now you have to reset all other tools
[23:25:09] <Aero-Tec> I am guessing one should set all tools to fixture and tool table and then set up work piece when your ready to cut
[23:25:41] <Aero-Tec> will have to play with that unless JT-Shop come up with a answer and save me the time playing around
[23:25:57] <Aero-Tec> I am very close to having this figured out I think
[23:27:07] <Aero-Tec> well I hope I am close
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[23:31:51] <Tom_itx> if you change the insert, it's a different tool now isn't it?
[23:32:11] <Tom_itx> no you just reset the one tool
[23:32:25] <Tom_itx> they are all relative to each other
[23:32:37] <Tom_itx> and relative to the work offset
[23:34:07] <Aero-Tec> ok
[23:34:55] <Tom_itx> i could set my G54 work offset right now and not set any tools and i'd feel rather comfortable that the tool would go where it's supposed to
[23:35:04] <Tom_itx> i preset most of my common ones
[23:35:11] <Aero-Tec> so you will have to use other tool to set zero and then rezero tool one
[23:35:17] <Tom_itx> i do however check them just to be sure
[23:35:47] <Tom_itx> T10 M6
[23:35:53] <Tom_itx> set T10 H10
[23:35:59] <Aero-Tec> never hurt to check, can be a real killer not to
[23:36:01] <Tom_itx> set G54 z
[23:36:04] <Tom_itx> to zero
[23:36:12] <Tom_itx> set all the other tools to the same point
[23:36:26] <JT-Shop> any idea on how fast I can spin up a BP Series One 1 1/2 hp motor?
[23:36:35] <Tom_itx> until it flies apart
[23:36:43] <Jymmm> pcw_home: ping
[23:37:32] <JT-Shop> Aero-Tec: do you have presetable tools?
[23:38:11] <JT-Shop> and is this a lathe?
[23:38:32] <Tom_itx> pretty sure it's a lathe
[23:38:45] <Tom_itx> not so sure about the presetable part
[23:39:03] <Tom_itx> iirc he said they were
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[23:51:49] <Aero-Tec> yes to lathe
[23:51:57] <Aero-Tec> quick change tooling
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[23:53:23] <JT-Shop> with touch off to fixture selected I touch off all tools to the spindle for Z
[23:53:31] <JT-Shop> and X to some material
[23:53:53] <JT-Shop> then I set my G54 Z offset with a tool that makes sense like a facing tool
[23:54:09] <JT-Shop> oh with touch off to material selected!!!!!
[23:54:20] <Tom_itx> Aero-Tec, as long as it's the active tool you don't care what tool you set G54 with
[23:54:29] <Tom_itx> as long as it's been set first
[23:54:32] <JT-Shop> I always screwed it up so I just have buttons to do the touch off using G code
[23:54:38] <Tom_itx> heh
[23:55:16] <JT-Shop> oh yea for yours you must do a Tn M6 G43 before touching off to load that tool
[23:55:18] <Tom_itx> it makes sense because that's the way we set all our machines at my bud's shop
[23:55:30] <JT-Shop> mine is a turret so I press the 1-8 button
[23:55:59] <JT-Shop> seems to run at 2300 rpm ok...
[23:56:01] <Tom_itx> where i got screwed up initially was the touchoff to workpiece bit in the machine menu
[23:56:28] <JT-Shop> yea I just use my buttons now, no way ... well almost no way to screw up
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[23:58:57] <JT-Shop> 2400 rpm on the motor doesn't get me much when the vari drive is set to 500
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