#linuxcnc | Logs for 2013-08-16

[00:00:13] <tjtr33> debian
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[00:00:25] <eric_unterhausen> I think that's a yes, it's a low energy version of the amd64
[00:00:46] <eric_unterhausen> and by low energy, I mean they reduced the clock rate
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[01:26:27] <nspiel> how do you select a 7i43 for hardware testing in linuxcnc
[01:26:59] <jdh> load a config, select an axis, test.
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[01:27:26] <nspiel> so if i load my scara config? it shoudl be communicating with the 7i43????
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[01:27:55] <Tom_itx> logger[mah]
[01:27:55] <logger[mah]> Tom_itx: Log stored at http://linuxcnc.mah.priv.at/irc/%23linuxcnc/2013-08-16.html
[01:28:02] <jdh> if you told it to use the hw, yes.
[01:28:10] <nspiel> hw?
[01:28:13] <Tom_itx> that lightening was _close_
[01:28:15] <jdh> hardware.
[01:28:25] <nspiel> how do i tell it how to use hardware
[01:28:39] <Tom_itx> with a bit file for the board
[01:28:46] <Tom_itx> in your ini file
[01:28:57] <jdh> just try loading your config and see what happens.
[01:29:09] <nspiel> jdh what is that supposed to mean
[01:29:20] <nspiel> i have only the 7i43 hooked up right now
[01:29:41] <jdh> didn't you create a config with pncconf?
[01:31:25] <Tom_itx> did you add a line to the ini for the 7i43?
[01:31:29] <nspiel> no...
[01:31:35] <Tom_itx> one sec
[01:31:39] <nspiel> tom- I didnt
[01:31:52] <Tom_itx> is it the big one or the little one?
[01:31:54] <Tom_itx> fpga
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[01:32:05] <nspiel> 7i43-2
[01:32:24] <Tom_itx> k, i got the big one but it's very close to the same
[01:32:31] <Tom_itx> you will need to fine the mesa files for it
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[01:32:54] <nspiel> what?
[01:33:29] <atom1> loadrt hm2-stepper config='firmware=hm2/7i43-4/SVST2_4_7I47B.BIT
[01:33:37] <atom1> but yours will be slightly different
[01:33:52] <nspiel> in cmd?
[01:34:01] <atom1> loadrt [HOSTMOT2](DRIVER) config=[HOSTMOT2](CONFIG)
[01:34:09] <nspiel> what is that doing? uploading firmwire to the board?
[01:34:10] <atom1> that's the actual line that loads mine
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[01:34:17] <atom1> the bit file
[01:34:27] <nspiel> i honestly have no idea what is going on
[01:35:25] <atom1> the bit files are in /lib/firmware/hm2/yourboard
[01:35:51] <nspiel> where are those located at
[01:36:19] <Tom_itx> you can look at my configs here: http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/cnc/configs/sherline/
[01:36:29] <Tom_itx> the bit files can be gotten from mesa
[01:36:36] <Tom_itx> in a zip file
[01:37:10] <Tom_itx> copy them to ^^ that directory as root
[01:37:41] <nspiel> what directory and what files
[01:37:52] <atom1> the bit files are in /lib/firmware/hm2/yourboard
[01:38:06] <nspiel> where is that located at. i dont see it anywhere
[01:38:08] <atom1> yourboard - 7i43-2
[01:38:10] <nspiel> is it in linuxcnc
[01:38:20] <atom1> open a file brouser
[01:38:27] <atom1> or a terminal
[01:38:36] <nspiel> can u pm me
[01:38:56] <atom1> i could but i don't see why
[01:39:03] <nspiel> ok nvr mind
[01:39:18] <nspiel> i have file browser open
[01:39:22] <nspiel> but dont know where to look
[01:39:46] <atom1> /lib/firmware/hm2/yourboard
[01:40:19] <atom1> /lib/firmware/hm2/7i43-2
[01:40:45] <nspiel> awesome found it now what
[01:40:49] <atom1> if it's not there you need to get the bit files from mesa
[01:41:01] <atom1> add a line to your ini file
[01:41:09] <nspiel> its there
[01:41:31] <nspiel> can i show u the ini i have right now
[01:41:33] <atom1> also
[01:41:37] <atom1> # only the 7i43 needs this, but it doesnt hurt the others
[01:41:38] <atom1> loadrt probe_parport
[01:42:02] <atom1> open my ini and look at it
[01:42:20] <Tom_itx> http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/cnc/configs/sherline/sherline.ini
[01:43:03] <nspiel> all i have is emc
[01:43:10] <nspiel> not the hostmot section
[01:43:18] <nspiel> which is what i assume i need to communicate with the 7i43
[01:43:44] <atom1> err just a sec
[01:43:53] <atom1> i was looking at my hal file
[01:44:19] <atom1> add the [hostmot2] section to your ini
[01:44:27] <atom1> and change the board and other parameters you need
[01:44:43] <atom1> then in the hal file add some lines
[01:44:50] <nspiel> ok. how do i know what i need to change? I've already started adding it
[01:44:57] <nspiel> wait for me for the hal. working on the ini now
[01:45:18] <atom1> add your bit file instead of mine in the [hostmot2] section
[01:45:35] <atom1> and change the directory to the -2 instead of -4
[01:45:48] <atom1> in the config= line
[01:46:13] <nspiel> i have a x axis two joints and a manupulator- 4 encoders and 4 motors
[01:46:29] <nspiel> does that mean 4pwm gens and 4 stepgens
[01:46:39] <nspiel> i meant z axis
[01:46:54] <atom1> count your axis and encoders and add them there yes
[01:47:11] <atom1> if you're not using steppers, remove my stuff for steppers etc
[01:47:26] <nspiel> oh so i should have 0 stepgens since im using all dc motors
[01:47:31] <nspiel> with encoders correct?
[01:47:43] <atom1> i think those are your pwm for the motors
[01:47:53] <atom1> so set that to 4?
[01:48:16] <atom1> same for your encoders
[01:48:17] <nspiel> well there are pwmgens and stepgens. Do i need only pwm or do i need both
[01:48:29] <atom1> stepgens are for steppers
[01:48:33] <nspiel> oh ok so
[01:48:35] <nspiel> CONFIG="firmware=hm2/7i43-2/SVST2_4_7I47B.BIT num_encoders=4 num_pwmgens=4 num_stepgens=0"
[01:48:36] <atom1> you don't need those
[01:48:52] <jdh> and you don't have a 7i47
[01:49:12] <atom1> ahh that's true too :)
[01:49:16] <atom1> change the board name
[01:49:18] <nspiel> what should i put there
[01:49:23] <atom1> 7i43
[01:49:52] <nspiel> CONFIG="firmware=hm2/7i43-2/SVST2_4_7I43.BIT num_encoders=4 num_pwmgens=4 num_stepgens=0"
[01:49:59] <atom1> firmware=hm2/7i43-2/SVST2_4_7I43.BIT num_encoders=4 num_pwmgens=4 num_stepgens=0
[01:50:04] <jdh> nah
[01:50:04] <atom1> something like that
[01:50:08] <jdh> the line specifies the bitfile
[01:50:33] <atom1> only your bitfile will be different
[01:50:45] <nspiel> pcw said earlier that i should use svst4_4
[01:50:55] <atom1> on the config= line in quotes
[01:51:04] <atom1> he would know
[01:51:07] <jdh> SVST4_4.BIT
[01:51:21] <atom1> case sensitive too
[01:51:43] <nspiel> when i check the directory though there is only SVST4_4B.BIT and SVST4_4S.BIT
[01:51:55] <nspiel> whats the difference and will SVST4_4.BIT work
[01:51:56] <atom1> s is small b is big
[01:51:58] <atom1> use the s one
[01:52:05] <atom1> fpga size
[01:52:30] <atom1> s - 200k gates b = 400k gates
[01:52:45] <nspiel> so now
[01:52:46] <nspiel> CONFIG="firmware=hm2/7i43-2/SVST2_4_SVST4_4S.BIT num_encoders=4 num_pwmgens=4 num_stepgens=0"
[01:52:51] <nspiel> yeah i have the 200k
[01:53:04] <atom1> that looks pretty close
[01:53:19] <nspiel> can anyone else confirm?
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[01:53:29] <jdh> does that file exist?
[01:53:36] <atom1> if that's the filename
[01:53:36] <jdh> all I have is SVST4_4.BIT
[01:53:40] <nspiel> oosp
[01:54:07] <nspiel> i made a mistake
[01:54:07] <atom1> and i'm not using that bit file since i have the 7i47 attached to mine
[01:54:09] <nspiel> here what i did
[01:54:10] <nspiel> CONFIG="firmware=hm2/7i43-2/SVST4_4S.BIT num_encoders=4 num_pwmgens=4 num_stepgens=0"
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[01:54:29] <jdh> I don't have a 4S, just a 4
[01:54:43] <atom1> probably the same thing
[01:54:58] <nspiel> oh jdh your right
[01:54:58] <atom1> try the s one like you have it
[01:54:58] <jdh> the dir for 7i43-2 is the small one
[01:55:08] <atom1> jep
[01:55:16] <nspiel> CONFIG="firmware=hm2/7i43-2/SVST4_4.BIT num_encoders=4 num_pwmgens=4 num_stepgens=0"
[01:55:22] <atom1> yup looks good
[01:55:30] <atom1> now fix your hal file
[01:55:32] <jdh> do you have pwmgens?
[01:55:44] <atom1> for his dc motors he would
[01:55:45] <atom1> right?
[01:55:51] <nspiel> i have two 7i25s
[01:55:55] <jdh> no clue what the 7i25 uses.
[01:56:05] <nspiel> its similar to the 7i29
[01:56:08] <atom1> yeah that's a newer board and i don't know about it
[01:56:15] <jdh> did you try running pncconf, pick 7i43 + 2x 7i25?
[01:56:17] <nspiel> the 7i25 is p;d
[01:56:19] <atom1> you may need to get a bitfile from pcw for it
[01:56:24] <nspiel> the 7i25 isnt an option in pncconf
[01:56:38] <atom1> so stop using pnconfig :D
[01:56:48] <atom1> i never did use it
[01:56:50] <nspiel> yeah pcw said to stop using pnccong
[01:56:58] <atom1> so?
[01:57:20] <nspiel> he knows lots of stuff
[01:57:33] <atom1> he should he works for mesa
[01:57:41] <nspiel> oh lol
[01:57:45] <nspiel> i didnt know that
[01:58:03] <atom1> yeah you get top tier support here
[01:58:10] <jdh> I would look at the example scara config. look at the example 7i43 configs. combine the two. Possibly generate an initial config with pncconf and something that looks like a 7i25 and work from there.
[01:59:27] <atom1> well at least now you have an idea how to connect to the boards
[01:59:35] <atom1> the details can be worked out
[02:00:04] <nspiel> im not sure how to connect the boards
[02:00:15] <nspiel> i have a rough idea that pcw told me a long time ago
[02:00:19] <nspiel> let me go check brb
[02:00:28] <atom1> add the lines to the hal file
[02:01:17] <nspiel> ok so that should be good with the ini now right?
[02:01:22] <nspiel> im gonna save and close it
[02:02:06] <nspiel> here are the two hal files I have scara_postgui.hal and scara_sim_4.hal
[02:02:09] <atom1> for now yes
[02:02:38] <atom1> the scara_sim would be the one probably
[02:02:57] <nspiel> ok let me open it up
[02:02:58] <atom1> but you'll probably wanna rename it for later
[02:03:27] <nspiel> # core HAL config file for simulation - 4 axis
[02:03:30] <nspiel> it says that at the top
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[02:05:22] <atom1> you can name your hal file in the [EMCMOT] section
[02:05:36] <atom1> of the ini file
[02:05:47] <atom1> HALFILE = sherline.hal
[02:06:39] <atom1> or any other hal files you add
[02:06:55] <atom1> i have some in the [HAL] section as well
[02:06:58] <nspiel> i dont have that line= so i shoudl add it?
[02:07:12] <atom1> i would
[02:07:23] <atom1> look at my configs as a guide if you want
[02:07:30] <atom1> just realize i'm running steppers
[02:08:08] <nspiel> ok so i added that
[02:08:19] <nspiel> HALFILE = scara_sim_4.hal
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[02:13:46] <nspiel> so now what for the hal file?
[02:13:56] <atom1> take a look at mine
[02:14:17] <atom1> all the hostmot2 stuff
[02:15:05] <atom1> loadrt probe_parport
[02:15:08] <atom1> loadrt hostmot2
[02:15:13] <nspiel> so i just downloade the stuff from
[02:15:19] <nspiel> mesa for the config
[02:15:21] <nspiel> for 7i43
[02:15:28] <atom1> loadrt [HOSTMOT2](DRIVER) config=[HOSTMOT2](CONFIG)
[02:15:36] <nspiel> andypugh suggested getting the .pin file from that a long time ago
[02:15:56] <atom1> you should listen
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[02:16:45] <nspiel> sv4_4.pin files specifies a 400k fpga
[02:16:48] <nspiel> mines a 200k
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[02:17:57] <atom1> you may have to get one from pcw
[02:18:05] <atom1> that i dunno
[02:18:11] <nspiel> oh ok
[02:18:38] <atom1> follow my hal for all the hostmot lines though, that part should be pretty close
[02:18:47] <nspiel> its weird
[02:19:01] <nspiel> it says 400k but then says number of i/o ports two
[02:19:15] <nspiel> doesnt that contradict each other
[02:19:18] <atom1> no
[02:19:31] <atom1> it's the size of the fpga, not what's in it
[02:19:52] <nspiel> heres what it says
[02:19:55] <nspiel> BoardName : MESA7I43 FPGA Size: 400 KGates FPGA Pins: 144 Number of IO Ports: 2 Width of one I/O port: 24 Clock Low frequency: 50.0000 MHz Clock High frequency: 100.0000 MHz
[02:20:13] <nspiel> i wonder if i can just change the line with fpga size in it to 200 KGattes
[02:20:40] <atom1> nope
[02:20:58] <atom1> you need the right file
[02:22:44] <nspiel> the code for my hal file is like 5% of yoursd
[02:22:47] <nspiel> its so sparse
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[02:24:13] <nspiel> atom1 where did u learn how to do this
[02:24:19] <nspiel> im not a programmer
[02:24:21] <atom1> here
[02:24:22] <nspiel> im a meche by trade
[02:24:24] <nspiel> oh ok
[02:24:35] <atom1> just like you're doing
[02:24:46] <nspiel> oh ok great. thank you so much btw
[02:25:37] <atom1> the initial learning curve may be a bit steep but it's worth it
[02:26:18] <atom1> just make sure you get the right bit files
[02:26:25] <atom1> i'm not exactly sure what you have
[02:26:36] <atom1> you mentioned the 7i43 but also the 5i25
[02:26:39] <nspiel> i have the bit files for 7i43
[02:26:40] <nspiel> s
[02:26:46] <nspiel> i think i have that part setup right
[02:26:55] <nspiel> but it will be connected to two 7i25 motor drivers
[02:26:59] <nspiel> via p4
[02:27:23] <atom1> ok
[02:27:25] <nspiel> basically pcw said that i need to splice a 50 wire cable in half and run half to one motor driver and half to the other
[02:28:10] <atom1> probably so since it was laid out for a different board
[02:28:34] <nspiel> yep
[02:28:52] <nspiel> i dont quite understand the .pin file though or the output from dmesg
[02:29:06] <atom1> you will
[02:29:47] <atom1> the pin or bit files make the board configurable
[02:29:58] <nspiel> ahh i see
[02:30:12] <atom1> once you get it attached dmesg will list what you have
[02:30:42] <nspiel> once i get the .pin attached? or the 7i43?
[02:31:28] <atom1> the board
[02:31:35] <atom1> both
[02:32:02] <nspiel> the 7i43 is powered and attached to my computer right now
[02:32:22] <atom1> but you can't see it
[02:32:31] <atom1> because the bit file isn't attached yet
[02:32:32] <nspiel> i dont know if i can see it or not
[02:32:41] <nspiel> i got a bunch of jibberish form the dmesg
[02:32:44] <nspiel> and sudo dmesg
[02:33:13] <atom1> it's not all for this
[02:33:22] <atom1> you can clear dmesg
[02:33:26] <atom1> i forget how
[02:34:34] <atom1> clear it just before you start lcnc
[02:35:03] <nspiel> hmm ok
[02:35:19] <nspiel> did u read all the documentation about ini and hal files etc.
[02:35:23] <nspiel> your hal file confuses me
[02:37:13] <nspiel> check this out
[02:37:14] <nspiel> http://transistor-man.com/3dprintbot.html#linuxcnc
[02:37:59] <atom1> i read about what i needed
[02:38:41] <atom1> all you need from mine is the mesa stuff, the rest will probably all be wrong for yours
[02:39:07] <nspiel> hmm ok
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[02:39:28] <atom1> then you need to follow the docs and your sim file from there
[02:39:32] <nspiel> he link i posted has a scara with botht the ini and hal
[02:39:36] <nspiel> ahh ok
[02:39:40] <nspiel> but he is using stepper
[02:39:45] <nspiel> so i should jsut adapt for pwm?
[02:39:49] <nspiel> and dc motorsd
[02:39:56] <atom1> well if that's what you're using, yes
[02:40:01] <atom1> the pwmgen vs stepgen
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[02:44:12] <nspiel> what is the .var file?
[02:46:32] <Tom_itx> for your tool work offsets etc
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[02:48:49] <nspiel> what is the xml file
[02:49:20] <Tom_itx> for pnconfig
[02:49:34] <Tom_itx> i doubt you need it now
[02:49:47] <nspiel> oh ok thanks
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[02:50:07] <nspiel> so basically i need to correctly rewrite my .hal and .ini files?
[02:50:14] <nspiel> then it should work?
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[02:50:22] <Tom_itx> yep
[02:50:27] <Tom_itx> then tune your motors etc
[02:50:38] <nspiel> where is that done at?
[02:50:41] <nspiel> within lcnc?
[02:50:58] <Tom_itx> in the axis sections or the kin files
[02:51:07] <Tom_itx> i don't have servos so i'm not sure
[02:51:36] <nspiel> of the .hal file?
[02:51:55] <Tom_itx> the [AXIS x] sections are
[02:52:31] <atom1> err, they're in the ini
[02:53:38] <nspiel> oh ok
[02:53:55] <atom1> you can see that in his example
[02:54:44] <nspiel> does he use dc motor encoders
[02:55:25] <Tom_itx> you said his example was steppers
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[02:56:41] <nspiel> its a mix of both
[02:56:43] <nspiel> i just read
[02:57:01] <nspiel> i had previously thought it was all steppers but by looking at the code it seemed weird
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[03:14:43] <nspiel> how do i know when my hal and ini work or what is wrong when tey dont
[03:16:28] <pcw_home> usually a message will be printed(including a hal line number) , sometimes you need to look at dmesg
[03:17:12] <nspiel> pcw can you help me with figuring out the right route to set up my hardware
[03:17:19] <nspiel> im confused on the correct approach to take
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[03:20:38] <skunkworks> nspiel: I would start a thread on the forum... You are doing a pretty involved configuration.
[03:21:40] <skunkworks> and it is going to take a lot of elbow grease on your part.
[03:29:26] <pcw_home> did you try the built in hm2servo config to verify the hardware first?
[03:31:09] <Valen> pcw_home: i have a question about the +-10v servo boards you guys have, can i make it such that they run +10v only?
[03:31:19] <Valen> IE to run a VFD?
[03:31:56] <pcw_home> You can do it with the absolute component
[03:32:19] <Valen> handy
[03:32:38] <Valen> I was planning on running forward only but I spose reverse might be nise
[03:32:42] <Valen> (its a lathe)
[03:32:52] <pcw_home> (speaking of handy, the absolute component also has a handy bit for direction)
[03:35:26] <pcw_home> so you can use a signed velocity run it though the absolute component to get 0 to +10
[03:35:27] <pcw_home> and a bit to control the direction pin on the VFD
[03:36:44] <Valen> think there would be any harm in putting a diode on the output just to be sure?
[03:37:24] <pcw_home> You would have a dead zone
[03:38:17] <Valen> could put an offset in to compensate though?
[03:38:24] <pcw_home> and more noise susceptibility
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[03:38:41] <Valen> I might put it in while getting it working
[03:38:50] <Valen> blowing the VFD would be a bad day
[03:39:32] <pcw_home> If -10v blows a VFD its not worth a plugged nickel
[03:40:37] <pcw_home> heck most should take a lot more since its a fairly high impedance input
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[03:40:53] <Valen> I don't wanna break it lol
[03:42:48] <pcw_home> it its broken by a 10V input it will probably eventually die from a noise pulse
[03:42:49] <pcw_home> VFDs are very noisy an need to have I/0 thats tough
[03:44:42] <pcw_home> (since they will have multiple volts of ground bumping)
[03:45:51] <pcw_home> why oh why did fanuc send the serial encoder data LSB first but calculate the CRC MSB first :-(
[03:48:11] <Valen> pcw_home: principally to mess with you
[03:49:11] <pcw_home> Sure makes simple CRC serial checking more painful
[03:52:09] <pcw_home> have to do it in software unless I want to make a loop and read the full data packet MSb first through the checker
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[04:23:50] <mrsun> hmm anyone know a source for screw covers ?
[04:24:00] <mrsun> those telescoping things .. seen em on some lathes etc
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[04:36:06] <tjtr33> google telescopic leadscrew covers and telescopic springs, lotsa hits
[04:39:25] <tjtr33> http://web.mit.edu/biyeun/Public/How%20to%20make%20Bellows.pdf good ideas for DIY bellows instead of metal spring covers
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[04:40:48] <abetusk> anyone have experience with using eyelets/grommets/rivets for vias when doing DIY pcbs?
[04:43:24] <nspiel> pcw
[04:43:35] <nspiel> i havent tried the built in hm2servo config yet
[04:43:37] <nspiel> how do i do that
[04:44:04] <nspiel> skunkworks i will do that on the forum soon
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[05:24:39] <CaptHindsight> abetusk: http://paulwanamaker.wordpress.com/300-2/ like these?
[05:26:40] <abetusk> CaptHindsight, no, the actual eyelets. Like these: http://www.megauk.com/through_hole_rivets.php
[05:27:10] <abetusk> though I would like to hear your experience with that, if you have any
[05:27:49] <CaptHindsight> twas a long time ago :)
[05:28:09] <CaptHindsight> are you trying to transfer heat or lots of current?
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[05:45:43] <Valen> abetusk: you can get PCB's made so cheap these days its almost not worth it
[05:46:02] <Valen> we only DIY pcb's when we want it done fast
[05:46:33] <abetusk> "fast". How fast can you have them shipped to your house?
[05:46:54] <abetusk> CaptHindsight, trying to just get two-sided boards with a reasonable method
[05:47:28] <abetusk> ah, yes, I should read the rest
[05:47:37] <abetusk> That's the point: fast prototyping
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[05:49:33] <Valen> we also got 10 double sided in about 7 days for like $50
[05:49:39] <Valen> $30 of that was the shipping
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[06:04:22] <abetusk> Valen, how big?
[06:04:40] <Valen> 5x5cm
[06:04:52] <Valen> 10x10cm boards were like $5 more
[06:05:41] <abetusk> yeah, well, I'm never going to beat out the price. It's really the turn around time
[06:06:03] <Valen> they will do 24 hour turn for more money
[06:06:09] <abetusk> How much?
[06:06:22] <Valen> worked out for like $80 or so I could get them to australia in 3-4 days
[06:06:48] <abetusk> Anyway, there are benefits to doing it at home
[06:06:49] <Valen> join #hackvana and ask the dude hackvana
[06:07:03] <abetusk> yeah, I know. They're cheap. But from China is at least a week
[06:07:13] <Valen> to where?
[06:07:16] <abetusk> US
[06:07:23] <Valen> get the DHL shipping
[06:07:45] <abetusk> Valen, there is a benefit to doing home PCBs. Turn around time is measured in hours instead of days....
[06:07:54] <Valen> there is
[06:08:10] <Valen> I'm going to be making 2 at home soon
[06:08:33] <abetusk> My plan is to do prototyping on my home system and when the design is finalized, use some cheap board house
[06:09:39] <abetusk> CaptHindsight, that's not your page, is it?
[06:10:26] <CaptHindsight> abetusk: nope
[06:11:01] <abetusk> ah. Yeah, that page is really great and he even made a testing jig, but it looks like last activity was about a year ago.
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[06:28:31] <CaptHindsight> abetusk: about how many via and holes do you have on a typical DIY pcb?
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[08:10:59] <DJ9DJ> moin
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[09:16:26] <Icekiller> anyone here in Belgium/Netherlands who can mill 6mm alu 370x370mm?
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[10:16:46] <DJ9DJ> tag
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[12:39:49] <jthornton> poke
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[12:40:04] <archivist> peek
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[13:21:09] <quitte> hi. can I rotate the x-y coordinates to match the working piece?
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[13:27:08] <skunkworks> quitte, look at g10 there is a R option.
[13:28:33] <quitte> but i have to calculate the angle myself? I was hoping to calibrate by 2 points
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[13:33:22] <skunkworks> maybe look at this?
[13:33:23] <skunkworks> http://www.linuxcnc.org/index.php/english/forum/40-subroutines-and-ngcgui/20912-sheet-alignment-in-a-plasma-table
[13:34:40] <quitte> that looks useful
[13:35:31] <jthornton> also here http://www.gnipsel.com/linuxcnc/index.html
[13:40:20] <archivist> I think I cracked it :) a bevel gear 29 tooth .5 module approx generated http://www.collection.archivist.info/archive/DJCPD/PD/2013/2013_08_16_bevel/
[13:41:38] <archivist> how many more to make of that size before I make the matching pinion.....
[13:43:28] <skunkworks> archivist: cool - what is it for?
[13:43:45] <archivist> a tractor diff
[13:44:10] <skunkworks> A really really small tractor
[13:44:51] <archivist> yes, he has a video of it ploughing at a model show
[13:45:42] <jthornton> looking good
[13:46:20] <archivist> he asked for brass, but I saw he was working is properly so made it in steel
[13:46:28] <archivist> is it
[13:47:19] <skunkworks> the thing doesn't have a diff now?
[13:47:21] <archivist> so obscure shapes and functions, as usual linuxcnc can do it
[13:47:28] <skunkworks> heh
[13:49:04] <archivist> currently he has off the shelf ratio 1.5 to 1 and needs the right ratio to enable a diff rather than unidirectional clutches he has in the axle
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[14:22:12] <quitte> when a drill always bends to the same side it means the drill is nott orthogonal to the table?
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[14:44:27] <cradek> I'd sure check that, but I wouldn't say that is the only possible cause
[14:45:36] <archivist> probably, test the axis to table, the procedure is called tramming
[14:47:47] <archivist> ew first site I find is the imitation Tubal Cain with a link to hoss.... I shall not go further with that link
[14:50:30] <cradek> bogus tramming, bogus workholding, bogus spindle seem like they could all do it
[14:50:43] <cradek> (I assume you're drilling something that's flat)
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[14:57:03] <skunkworks> normally - you center drill first.. A drill may just wonder
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[15:18:18] <archivist> or a good whack with a center punch so the drill had a start
[15:20:00] <archivist> I need to make a drip feed for the oil onto the cutter, baby sitting a 2.9 hour job is a pain
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[15:51:19] <ReadError> hello all
[15:51:35] <ReadError> is there a more light weight vnc server than the vino-server that comes installed?
[15:51:41] <ReadError> maybe tightvnc?
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[16:22:18] <nspiel_> is pcw here?
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[16:44:36] <Loetmichel> good evening... anyone knows a channel where they have knowledge about "ancient"(1996) 2 stroke 50ccm motorcycles?
[16:45:08] <archivist> 1996...that is new
[16:45:40] <Loetmichel> thats why there are ""
[16:45:48] <archivist> last two smoke I played with 1960's BSA Bantam
[16:45:56] <andypugh> Sorry, I only know anything abot 1922 200cc motorcycles.
[16:46:07] <Loetmichel> because most of the "modern" scooter are 4stroke with CDI
[16:46:23] <nspiel_> andy im trying to figure out my config for my 7i43 board
[16:46:30] <archivist> I do have all the Lucas manuals for Bantam electrics
[16:46:47] <andypugh> What was the question?
[16:47:01] <Loetmichel> i have bought myself a "commuter bike" last year. now that the weather is nice i drive it a lot
[16:47:33] <andypugh> nspiel: What daughter board, what hardware? Are you trying to pick a firmware or what?
[16:47:47] <nspiel_> so i think im going to use sv4_4
[16:47:55] <nspiel_> its a 7i43 with two 7i25 daughter boards
[16:48:02] <nspiel_> i mean motor drivers
[16:48:28] <Loetmichel> strange things like a 55W H4 bulb Hot glued into the (plastic!) reflector of the headlight is already corrected... but now i am having a nother strange problem...
[16:48:29] <nspiel_> im trying to do a hardware configuration test to see if it all is working
[16:49:16] <Loetmichel> ... when i have driven her full throttle for a while and open the clutch, the rpm wont go down even when the throttle is in idle..
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[16:49:41] <andypugh> Loetmichel: Air leak.
[16:50:00] <Loetmichel> shortly closing the clutch does the trick: idle rpm whre it should be
[16:50:14] <andypugh> Check the rubber between the carb and the head.
[16:50:20] <Loetmichel> thought so
[16:50:55] <Loetmichel> thanks for confirming ny guess
[16:50:58] <andypugh> Spraying WD40 on the rubber will temporarily seal the leak, and if that solves the problem, then you have it.
[16:51:25] <andypugh> nspiel: OK. Let me find the manual.
[16:51:52] <Loetmichel> but as it happens only after long dirves with full throttle i will search for loose screws also
[16:52:12] <Loetmichel> i.e. something that can expand with heat and open a leak
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[16:52:40] <IchGuckLive> hi all B)
[16:52:47] <nspiel_> im running them with a scara robot, so last niight i started writing the ini and hal
[16:52:57] <nspiel_> but pcw said there was a quick way to test out the setup
[16:53:23] <andypugh> You know that there is a sample SCARA config to copy? (Not for Mesa cards though)
[16:54:22] <nspiel_> yeah i started from that and added the mesa lines in
[16:55:25] <andypugh> Halrun // loadrt hostmot2 // loadrt hm2_7i43 config="firmware=hm2/7i43/sv4_4.bit" // loadrt threads // addf hm2_7i43.0.read thread1 // loadrt hm2_7i43.0.write thread1 // start // setp hm2_7i43.0.pwmgen.00.value 0.1 ?
[16:56:08] <andypugh> (Just off the top of my head, tab-completion works nicely in halcmd)
[16:56:09] <nspiel_> no just the stuff in the ini file
[16:56:21] <nspiel_> that is for the hal file right?
[16:56:43] <pcw_home> just launch the sample config
[16:56:54] <andypugh> That was how to test out _just_ the hardware without the rest of linxcnc. Typing that at the command line might well make the motor spin.
[16:57:34] <pcw_home> that will test if the 7I43 is found/configured/communicates properly
[16:58:04] <ReadError> there there any decently priced ATC spindles that are high rpm?
[16:58:19] <nspiel_> how do i launch the sample config?
[16:58:53] <pcw_home> do you no how to launch linuxcnc from the config chooser?
[16:59:06] <pcw_home> know how
[16:59:39] <andypugh> ReadError: http://www.alibaba.com/product-gs/900544969/ZYS_milling_spindles_BT30_spindle_for.html though I guess that the $750 base price and 30,000rpm top speed don't go together.
[17:01:02] <nspiel_> no i dont remember. i think i just did the scara config from the config chooser when i set up that computer
[17:01:39] <pcw_home> use the config chooser to select hm2-servo with the correct 7I43 card
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[17:11:39] <pcw_home> (I think the ini file (and therefore chooser name) is 7i43-small)
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[17:45:43] <jmasseo> how much runout can you have at 30k rpm?
[17:46:04] <IchGuckLive> 24/7
[17:46:36] <IchGuckLive> livetime is at 8k H
[17:47:44] <archivist> jmasseo, not much at all
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[17:56:17] <andypugh> Bother! I just dropped a part into my engine.
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[17:57:25] <andypugh> I guess it is worth a fair bit of fishing with a magnet, but I rather anticipate having to drop the exhaust and sump off. Again.
[17:57:32] <mrsun> i once dropped a socket that was JUST the size of the sparkplug hole into an engine before ... took a couple of hours to fish it out :P
[17:57:59] <mrsun> it had to align to perfection with the spark plug hole to get it out =)
[17:58:02] <mrsun> kinda frustrating :P
[17:59:50] <cradek> andypugh: ouch. what hole did you drop it in?
[18:01:05] <andypugh> w00t! This must be my lucky day! I got it out
[18:01:17] <Loetmichel> i once dropped a M6 nut into the carb on a runnung 50cc engine...
[18:01:36] <andypugh> It was part of the starter clutch, it is inside the side of the engine, directly above the crankshaft
[18:02:04] <cradek> hahaha
[18:02:07] <andypugh> Time to enter the Euromillions I think :-)
[18:02:08] <cradek> 2-cycle I imagine
[18:02:39] <Loetmichel> after dismantling the engine i found LOTS of hexagonal formed dents in the sump and on he head/piston
[18:03:05] <Loetmichel> cradek: right
[18:03:23] <nspiel_> no i do not know how to launch the config chooser
[18:03:40] <andypugh> A friend had the piston-ring anti-rotation pin come loose in his 2-stroke. It somehow managed to travel against the gas flow all the way to the disc-valve. Which tried (and failed) to guillotine it in half, to the detriment of all parts involved.
[18:03:54] <pcw_home> type linuxcnc in a terminal
[18:04:01] <andypugh> nspiel: CNC -> LinuxCNC from the menu?
[18:04:24] <nspiel_> oh ok got it
[18:06:43] <nspiel_> then how to get the correct config for testing?
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[18:07:23] <pcw_home> hm2-servo-->7i43-small
[18:08:46] <nspiel_> then how to test encoders and such
[18:10:42] <pcw_home> once you get a working hm2-servo config you can connect the 7I25s (again they need 5V power) and wire the encoders to them
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[18:14:14] <nspiel_> then i should see the position moving in the gui when i move the hardware?
[18:14:27] <pcw_home> yes
[18:15:04] <nspiel_> so where does the hm2-servo--7i43-small go? is that in a dropdown menu in lcnc? sorry not on my lcnc computer now
[18:15:51] <pcw_home> yes it should be in the config chooser menu
[18:16:26] <nspiel_> then if that works i should be able to hook up motors? and do a jog in the gui?
[18:19:22] <pcw_home> You still need to determine feedback direction (the motors may simply run-away if the feedback is reversed)
[18:19:23] <pcw_home> and tune the PID loops
[18:20:47] <nspiel_> how do i do that
[18:21:42] <pcw_home> better to cross that bridge when you get there
[18:23:07] <skunkworks> do a search for linuxcnc pid tuning.
[18:23:45] <pcw_home> People tend to have their favorite way
[18:24:53] <pcw_home> first get the config loaded, linuxcnc communicating with the card, then get the encoders working
[18:26:02] <nspiel_> ok sounds good. once i use this config will any of it be transferable to the scara default config to make the two work together
[18:26:07] <pcw_home> working includes getting the scales and directions right
[18:26:39] <pcw_home> yes the setup data is transferable
[18:27:58] <pcw_home> I have no idea what scaling makes sense for SCARA devices since the encoders read joints not axis
[18:28:22] <pcw_home> maybe scaled to degrees
[18:28:32] <pcw_home> for some
[18:30:14] <nspiel_> this web page has the ini and hal files for a scara but you will understand it much better than i will
[18:30:15] <nspiel_> http://transistor-man.com/3dprintbot.html
[18:30:21] <nspiel_> he is also not using mesa 7i43 etc
[18:30:44] <andypugh> Mwahahah! It lives!
[18:33:01] <pcw_home> that's a little spooky...
[18:33:46] <andypugh> (My R1 is once more functional)
[18:34:31] <pcw_home> Is that the one with the exploded alternator?
[18:34:41] <andypugh> Yes.
[18:35:16] <pcw_home> did you have to buy a new rotor?
[18:35:57] <andypugh> Ah, this was a different problem, related to the replacement alternator rotor. There was a part absent from the starter clutch assembly.
[18:36:30] <andypugh> I didn't realise until some parts got hot and distorted.
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[18:36:46] <andypugh> And welded together, and other such unpleasantness.
[18:36:49] <pcw_home> But ride-able now?
[18:36:54] <andypugh> I think so.
[18:37:01] <andypugh> I haven't tried it yet.
[18:38:24] <andypugh> I think a test-ride is probably in order though.
[18:38:57] <pcw_home> decent weather?
[18:39:08] <nspiel_> http://transistor-man.com/3dprintbot.html
[18:42:13] <nspiel_> pcw does the code there make sense for what i want to do
[18:42:26] <nspiel_> i was basically going to take it and add the mesa stuff in
[18:48:14] <pcw_home> not sure whats usable other the the scarakins hal connections
[18:48:24] <pcw_home> other than the
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[18:56:56] <Tom_itx> andypugh, what's worse is when you don't see what dropped inside so you're never quiet sure you got it all
[18:57:56] <Tom_itx> i found a spare rod end nut inside an engine once during a rebuild
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[19:02:46] <nspiel_> so basically the best thing i can get out of it is the kinematics. Those should be the same, correct?
[19:04:22] <pcw_home> the pivot lengths (or whatever they are called) will be different
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[19:10:59] <cradek> scara kins are really simple
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[19:37:31] <nspiel_> tcradek how so? where do I set the length and how to measure them?
[19:39:51] <Tom_itx> center of each axis pivot point
[19:40:24] <nspiel_> with a tape measure or something more accurate
[19:40:43] <Tom_itx> depends how accurate you want it to respond once it's set up
[19:40:52] <Tom_itx> i'd go for accurate myself
[19:41:22] <andypugh> It's likely to be a round number of inches, mm or cubits.
[19:42:08] <nspiel_> gotcha.
[19:42:09] <Tom_itx> it's probably in a data sheet or manual somewhere too
[19:42:16] <nspiel_> ok ill look it up too
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[19:44:02] <nspiel_> so i will most likely have to modify the default scara ini and hal files to suit my needs?
[19:44:50] <andypugh> Unless your machine is identical to the sample ones, yes.
[19:45:23] <andypugh> Just like you have to configure leadscrew pitch and encoder count on any other type of machine.
[19:46:16] <nspiel_> im planning on starting a thread on the forum with all my config files etc. would that be worth it? should i just stay seeking help on here
[19:47:20] <Tom_itx> we're the best support you could hope for but if you're growing tired of us...
[19:47:24] <cradek> you should probably wait until you are actually working on it, and then you will have more specific questions.
[19:48:14] <cradek> your questions are really general and show that you haven't really started the work.
[19:48:58] <cradek> for example "will I have to edit the ini file" is a surprising question
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[19:53:10] <nspiel_> ok thanks for the help. im not where my linuxcnc computer is right now so ill be back on tonight with it. will you guys be around tonight for more specific questions
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[20:07:40] <andypugh> It is tonight
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[20:34:59] <andypugh> Therre's a hole in my bucket... I am ssh-ed into my dev PC and playing with the 7i80 / RTNet driver. I suspect that if I rmmod the ethernet driver so that RTnet can have it, then ssh might no longer work...
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[20:41:26] <andypugh> 7i80DB looks like it might be a good fit to Mach4, are there any developments that way?
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[20:46:13] <PCW> Wow! The fanuc absolute encoders _do_ keep track of position if moved when in battery backup mode
[20:46:15] <PCW> thats pretty darned amazing
[20:46:54] <andypugh> Yes, surely they don't leave an LED on all the time?
[20:47:18] <andypugh> Maybe they wake up, like a digital caliper?
[20:47:35] <PCW> Yes, they wake up
[20:48:17] <PCW> so the must pulse the LEDs with a very low duty cycle when not moving
[20:49:18] <PCW> I measured the battery current and its roughly proportional to speed (and only say 20 uA when idle)
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[20:55:58] <andypugh> <JT> You are having too much fun </JT>
[20:56:44] <andypugh> I sometimes wonder if JT is being ironic when he says that, but then I remember that he is American, and to him "irony" is something like "steely" or "coppery" :-)
[21:00:39] <PCW> Yes it was fun to reverse engineer these (even got the CRC working)
[21:01:16] <andypugh> I wonder if they would have told you, if you had asked?
[21:01:28] <PCW> I suspect the similar vintage Fanuc drives would be easy to interface as well
[21:02:20] <PCW> I doubt it, there appears to be only what people have measured/rev engineered
[21:04:15] <CaptHindsight> what year is that Fanuc from?
[21:04:37] <PCW> seems to be a trade secret even though its not terribly complicated
[21:04:39] <PCW> (some other encoder companies make Fanuc interfaced encoders, Renishaw, Newhall etc)
[21:04:41] <PCW> but not one has any protocol specs
[21:05:16] <PCW> not sure maybe late 90s early 2K
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[21:07:15] <andypugh> It _looks_ like Fanuc currently belongs to 600 group, in the UK.
[21:07:27] <CaptHindsight> that Matsuura 710V I still have to rework has a 7HP spindle motor
[21:08:12] <CaptHindsight> I have to pretty much gut it. I can't believe how wrong someone could go on rewiring that thing
[21:08:55] <PCW> got creative with the re-wire?
[21:10:09] <CaptHindsight> when the DC servos stop at the end of travel if you are still cranking the MPG it still counts
[21:10:53] <PCW> Using a 7I80 for the interface for testing make it nice (i can test on my desktop in my office)
[21:10:54] <CaptHindsight> if you kill mach or the the PC when in e-stop the spindle and the coolant turn on
[21:11:42] <PCW> sounds like mach is making up those numbers
[21:12:31] <CaptHindsight> also has an Allen Bradlet PLC handling the limit, home and hydraulics
[21:12:46] <PCW> (since it doesn't really know)
[21:12:53] <DJ9DJ> gn8
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[21:13:44] <Nick001-Shop> andy - wanted to let you know lathe feeds per rev are good and single pointing thread is good also. Checking 5/16-24 thds with ring gauges and they're right on. Now maybe the spindle meter will work now - weekend project. Thanks again for your help and patience.
[21:13:47] <CaptHindsight> they supposedly added 1K libe encoders to the servos, not sure what id reading them
[21:13:57] <CaptHindsight> libe/line
[21:15:04] <andypugh> Nick001-Shop: I am amazed :-) My threads never come out right until I take off far more material than expected.
[21:15:49] <andypugh> (I think this ocmes down to it not being especially clear how to touch-off a rounded-nose thread-cutting tool)
[21:16:56] <CaptHindsight> 33 years and nobody hit the table once with a tool, and I do it the first week it's here :(
[21:18:04] <andypugh> CaptHindsight: It's yours. It wasn't theirs.
[21:18:49] <CaptHindsight> end mill started walking out of the collet, didn't notice that my Z was off by 0.1"
[21:21:16] <andypugh> How deep did it go?
[21:22:19] <CaptHindsight> maybe 0.02", I could hear the change in pitch as it went from 6061 to steel
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[21:23:26] <andypugh> It's probably iron. Hard to fix it.
[21:23:31] <CaptHindsight> perfect 0.5" circle
[21:24:10] <andypugh> You could probably have the whole table top reground.
[21:24:30] <andypugh> Or perhaps wait until you stop doing it before that :-)
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[21:24:39] <CaptHindsight> yeah :)
[21:24:48] <CaptHindsight> after the swap to Linuxcnc
[21:25:18] <andypugh> It doesn't matter. You own the machine. It is just a machine, it has no feelings, and function is unimpaired.
[21:26:07] <CaptHindsight> it's fine
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[21:26:12] <andypugh> Aha! What you have is a register for your 3-jaw chuck that lives in G55 :-)
[21:26:15] <roycroft> but if you have the table reground, are you going to hand scrape it after and reproduce all those beautiful flaking marks?
[21:26:30] <roycroft> that's a lot of work!
[21:26:58] <andypugh> _Cosmetic_ flaking is pretty quick.
[21:27:02] <CaptHindsight> yeah, it's a feature
[21:27:26] <roycroft> but if it's strictly cosmetic it's kind of a cheat, isn't it?
[21:27:55] <CaptHindsight> now that it's here, I want a bigger and faster one
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[21:28:48] <CaptHindsight> 6k rpm spindle is not enough, and why is it all the parts I just designed need 1 more inch of travel that it has?
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[21:31:01] <andypugh> roycroft: Enough flaking? http://www.lathes.co.uk/rivett/img7.jpg
[21:31:31] <roycroft> that looks nice
[21:31:33] <CaptHindsight> looks like glitter
[21:31:35] <andypugh> (from http://www.lathes.co.uk/rivett/page2.html )
[21:32:14] <roycroft> and i know that flaking serves a good functional purpose
[21:32:42] <andypugh> Not there, they flaked even the non-bearing surfaces.
[21:32:44] <roycroft> what i'm getting at is that flaking implies it was scraped really flat first
[21:33:02] <roycroft> yeah, well that's just for the bling factor :)
[21:33:13] <andypugh> How much do you think a Rivett 608 cost in 1936?
[21:33:15] <roycroft> and it works
[21:33:26] <roycroft> i've no idea
[21:33:45] <roycroft> there was still indentured servitude back then though :P
[21:34:05] <roycroft> which seems to be coming back here in the states
[21:34:18] <andypugh> Rivett were a succesful company, they kept making the factory bigger. They started making the 608 in 1922. Mine was 1936. Serial number 393.
[21:35:23] <CaptHindsight> I wonder how well steel coated with a few microns of aluminum and then anodized with teflon would hold up?
[21:36:54] <andypugh> They cost £1600 in 1936. That £95,000 now, or $150,000. No wonder they could afford to scrape everything.
[21:38:53] <andypugh> Have I mentioned that I intend to CNC-convert my Rivett 608 :-)
[21:40:01] <PCW> Sacrilege!
[21:40:09] <andypugh> Polishing and flaking all the parts is really going to add to the time on that project....
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[21:44:39] <CaptHindsight> http://tinyurl.com/lu2c6q7 14K - 24K RPM 14 HP V SPINDLE WITH VFD mounted on a bridgeport base
[21:45:06] <andypugh> PCW: The whole top-slide pops off at the touch of a lever, to fit alternative attachments. I am thinking in terms of a feed unit that fits where the factory taper / copy turning attachments went and a new top slide rotary tool holder. I also quite fancy an oak console panel with nixie-tube readouts :-)
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[22:02:09] <nspiel_> pcw, i dont know how to decipher the output of dmesg to determine the pinouts into the 7i43
[22:02:15] <nspiel_> it looked like jibberish
[22:02:39] <andypugh> The relevant part is perfectly clear :-)
[22:02:49] <nspiel_> ahhhh ok
[22:03:12] <nspiel_> is there an example somewhere of what the relevant clear part should look like?
[22:03:37] <andypugh> I am in the middle of a compile, so can't create one.
[22:03:51] <andypugh> Pastebin your dmesg? I can edit out the cruft
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[22:12:05] <nspiel_> you eccentric turning video is awesome
[22:12:52] <andypugh> I like the hexgonal boring one more :-).
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[22:13:33] <nspiel_> can you turn cam shafts?
[22:13:59] <andypugh> In theory, yes, no problem.
[22:14:17] <nspiel_> that is insanely awesome
[22:14:59] <nspiel_> have you run lcnc on non cartesian robots before?
[22:15:00] <andypugh> I would need to put the right profile in the module, but then it should work.
[22:15:17] <andypugh> No, that is one think I have yet to do.
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[22:20:08] <NickParker> kwallace2: you around?
[22:20:21] <NickParker> you mentioned earlier some numbers for what I/O my spindle and toolchanger need
[22:20:43] <NickParker> I was wondering if you remembered roughly where in the original electronics you jumped in with linuxcnc
[22:21:12] <NickParker> the wires to the toolchanger are easy to find, but will need lots of scoping to figure out without help. The wires to the spindle i only have vague theories about
[22:28:10] <Tom_itx> no wonder the interweb went down last evening.. lightening hit one of the trees in the yard
[22:28:31] <Tom_itx> blew the bark off the side of it
[22:32:12] <andypugh> You tunnel internet through trees over there?
[22:32:26] <PCW> nspiel_ :
[22:32:27] <PCW> sudo dmesg -c
[22:32:28] <PCW> linuxcnc (select config and exit if it loads without error)
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[22:32:30] <PCW> dmesg > somefile
[22:34:13] <nspiel_> what goes where somefile is?
[22:35:12] <andypugh> a file name of your choice.
[22:35:21] <andypugh> "somefile" will work
[22:36:09] <andypugh> Or, just do it, then type dmesg then copy it and paste it at www.pastebin.com and give us the URL
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