#linuxcnc | Logs for 2013-08-08

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[17:03:39] <pcw_home> linux _may_ be easier I know the buildbot manages to run both something relatively new and 10.1
[17:04:03] <pcw_home> cant Win7 lie and say its XP
[17:04:11] <cradek> sure but don't discount seb's wizardry
[17:04:53] <pcw_home> No not at all, and unfortunately he's not around to help
[17:05:52] <cradek> (sometimes I think I'm surrounded by wizards)
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[17:25:00] <skunkworks_> steveb I think is not understanding G64
[17:25:03] <skunkworks_> G64 - without P means to keep the best speed possible, no matter how far
[17:25:03] <skunkworks_> away from the programmed point you end up
[17:25:03] <skunkworks_> Clearly it's not doing that.
[17:25:38] <skunkworks_> ^ It keeps up the best posible speed while still touching each segment
[17:26:01] <skunkworks_> if I understand it right
[17:26:30] <IchGuckLive> short segments at the end
[17:26:48] <IchGuckLive> version 2.5.x ?
[17:26:50] <pcw_home> AFAIK a certain T company is OK with CSS
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[17:31:06] <pcw_home> Or are these complaints about suboptimum CV mode for high speed profiling/routing?
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[17:33:41] <fomox> would it be possible to use a RAMPS controller board with nema 17 motors for a small cnc router using a dremel?
[17:35:00] <IchGuckLive> why that expensive
[17:35:20] <IchGuckLive> there are so cheep boards for 3 axis
[17:35:24] <skunkworks_> pcw_home, cv complaints
[17:35:30] <skunkworks_> cradek, http://article.gmane.org/gmane.linux.distributions.emc.user/28587/match=n190+g64+p0.5
[17:36:06] <fomox> IchGuckLive: mainly because I think I can get a ramps for free
[17:36:46] <IchGuckLive> then go for it
[17:36:54] <IchGuckLive> but it is more work
[17:37:14] <IchGuckLive> get the simple tb board
[17:37:26] <fomox> hehe
[17:37:27] <fomox> okay
[17:37:33] <fomox> well, is the nema 17 strong enough?
[17:37:50] <IchGuckLive> not for brass milling in direct mode maybee
[17:38:06] <IchGuckLive> but chees is always a good to go O.O
[17:38:13] <fomox> :P
[17:38:24] <fomox> what would you reccomend for plastic and wood?
[17:38:28] <IchGuckLive> its not the stepper its the frame and the router
[17:38:34] <fomox> ah
[17:38:42] <fomox> well, I want to upgrade with a spindle later
[17:38:43] <ReadError> er mah gerd
[17:38:45] <fomox> thats not a dremel :P
[17:38:51] <ReadError> whats with the reprap invasion lately?
[17:38:54] <IchGuckLive> if you go nema17 on 5:1 brass is also good
[17:39:20] <fomox> ReadError: We love to make stuff, its natural that we nag you :P
[17:39:29] <fomox> okay
[17:39:35] <ReadError> yea but you all insist on using bootleg hardware
[17:39:36] <IchGuckLive> fomox: are you in the USA
[17:39:45] <fomox> IchGuckLive: no, Norway
[17:39:49] <ReadError> ramps controller?
[17:39:52] <IchGuckLive> better
[17:39:54] <ReadError> seriously ?
[17:40:10] <IchGuckLive> norway and then go for the leadshines
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[17:40:20] <IchGuckLive> fomox: and a good Nema23
[17:40:30] <fomox> leadshines?
[17:40:37] <IchGuckLive> the drivers
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[17:40:50] <IchGuckLive> what is your budget to be
[17:40:51] <fomox> ah
[17:41:09] <fomox> as cheap as possible ofc :P
[17:41:11] <fomox> thats everyones budget
[17:41:25] <IchGuckLive> then you will end up with double money
[17:41:37] <fomox> 500 usd maby?
[17:41:48] <IchGuckLive> thats quite mutch
[17:41:51] <IchGuckLive> 3Axis
[17:42:09] <fomox> nice
[17:42:23] <fomox> I dont really want to spend that much tho :P
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[17:43:43] <IchGuckLive> r 325 are
[17:43:51] <IchGuckLive> krones 325 in Euro
[17:44:14] <jd896> Hi all
[17:44:22] <IchGuckLive> hi jd
[17:44:31] <fomox> 325 nok is 41euro
[17:44:55] <jd896> Anybody running servos in step and dir mode ?
[17:50:42] <jd896> Should they sound like steppers or servos ?
[17:51:19] <skunkworks_> heh - what do you mean? they should sound like servos....
[17:51:35] -!- ktchk [ktchk!~eddie6929@n219078191005.netvigator.com] has parted #linuxcnc
[17:51:44] <CaptHindsight> ReadError: it's probably the work on the BBB+BeBoPr-amadamadingdong cape/shield/serape/expansion IO board
[17:52:04] <jd896> They are sounding Notchy almost noise issues I'm thinking
[17:52:38] <jd896> Just wanted to check been bugging me for a while now
[17:53:06] <skunkworks_> they may dither...
[17:58:47] <jdh> step/dir seems like a cruel thing to do with a servo + linuxcnc
[17:59:15] * skunkworks_ wasn't going to say anything...
[17:59:53] <jdh> you are very politic in your postings also.
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[18:03:13] <skunkworks_> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/mach1mach2cnc/message/141363
[18:08:04] <skunkworks_> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/mach1mach2cnc/message/141361
[18:12:01] <mozmck> heh, I've been following that - interesting!
[18:12:39] * skunkworks_ reads it instead of watching reality tv...
[18:13:20] <mozmck> :) unfortunately I still have to write plugins for that mess.
[18:13:27] <cradek> just like mach talk is OT on our lists, I imagine this is frustrating for those readers
[18:14:22] <skunkworks_> mozmck, you have to do what makes the money...
[18:14:38] <mozmck> yep :(
[18:15:48] <skunkworks_> cradek, what are the drives in the jr?
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[18:16:14] <cradek> umm big open frame yaskawa things
[18:16:24] <cradek> the Z is a slightly different model from the XY
[18:16:32] <skunkworks_> ok.. (wondering if they where seimens.
[18:16:34] <skunkworks_> )
[18:16:34] <cradek> I can probably find model numbers somewhere if you need them
[18:16:37] <skunkworks_> nope.
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[18:16:40] <skunkworks_> thanks though
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[18:18:45] <cradek> they look vaguely like http://www.ebay.com/itm/230863527662
[18:19:15] <skunkworks_> oh wow
[18:19:26] <skunkworks_> nope - nothing like that :)
[18:20:11] <cradek> under the circuit board is huge transistors(?)
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[18:25:22] <ReadError> have a dust collection question
[18:25:37] <ReadError> so, i have 2 cyclone filters, and 2 shopvacs (4.5hp each)
[18:26:20] <ReadError> would i be better of running, dust -> cyclone -> cyclone -> y splitter -> 2* shopvac
[18:26:49] <ReadError> or dust -> y splitter < cyclone(2) = shopvac
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[18:30:00] <cpresser_> ReadError: depends on what your goal is
[18:30:22] <ReadError> well im cutting a bunch of g10
[18:30:24] <cpresser_> do you want a maximum of dust-extraction, or maximum airflow?
[18:30:33] <ReadError> i want filter life and remove the most amount of dust
[18:30:36] <ReadError> or a good balance
[18:30:47] <cpresser_> a cyclone will slow down your airflow
[18:30:51] <ReadError> i think the cyclones in a series would catch most all dust
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[18:31:02] <ReadError> so thats why i was thinking about putting 2 vacs behind it
[18:31:06] <ReadError> to compensate
[18:31:21] <cpresser_> i guess you will have to try
[18:31:25] <ReadError> and ill just run a foam sleeve rather than a hepa
[18:31:36] <ReadError> still even 1 cyclone rocks
[18:31:41] <ReadError> i should have got one much sooner
[18:31:55] <cpresser_> ReadError: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PKz0qGRcwT0
[18:33:04] <ReadError> yikes
[18:33:09] <ReadError> mine does *much* better than that
[18:33:17] <ReadError> but i didnt make them, i just got them from amazon
[18:33:53] <cpresser_> but the video shows the basic physical principle and properties :)
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[18:35:15] <FinboySlick> This guy makes everything out of wood.
[18:35:46] <FinboySlick> His raid siren was a bit intimidating.
[18:41:49] <skunkworks_> wow - I wonder how he has all his fingers...
[18:41:50] <skunkworks_> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAfvOjdZpkg
[18:49:05] <FinboySlick> Hehehe, I sort of cringe when he turned uses his table saw as a 'lathe' tool.
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[18:56:00] <FinboySlick> 'mechanical' sound devices are cool though. Sort of like mythbusters made a crank actuated 'subwoofer'.
[18:56:15] <FinboySlick> driven by a petrol engine.
[18:56:35] <FinboySlick> I think that's how they invented dubstep.
[19:00:33] <archivist> cradek, I did some more research on the gleason method of gear shaving had this in a book http://www.collection.archivist.info/showresult.php?prog=1&srcprog=subcat.php&srcdata=subj&subcatpage=1&maincatpage=1&Type=BK&Accn_no=2918&subject=3806
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[19:25:35] <cradek> that looks really cool but I don't remember us talking about this
[19:37:15] <AR_> got new stepper driver
[19:37:19] <AR_> motor was acting weird
[19:37:21] <AR_> thought it was a dud
[19:37:28] <AR_> replaced with another gecko driver
[19:37:32] <AR_> motor acting weirder
[19:37:38] <AR_> been working on it all fucking day
[19:37:52] <AR_> just realized a wire broke off the fucking connector that goes to a phase of the motor....
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[19:40:58] <archivist> cradek, the gleason gear shaving video from a few days ago http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=15anXJ1y3PI double taper planer
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[19:59:04] <cradek> wow that's slick
[20:01:12] <archivist> I want 6 axis , having just bolted up the 5 axis in a form to try and mimic that
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[20:36:52] <Loetmichel> soo, got ne mill bnits and the LEDS... milling a motorcacle led headlight bulb now... AL 7075 is nice stuff... made a little error in the gcode: there is a triangle pin about 0,15mm by 0,15mm left... 9.5mm deep... any cheap AL 99.9 or such would bend and get cut... not this stuff: -> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o53RsosYwGg
[20:36:59] <Loetmichel> motorcycle
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[21:10:12] <DJ9DJ> gn8
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[21:21:39] <skunkworks> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/mach1mach2cnc/message/141364
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[21:46:18] <JT-Shop> looks CAM generated code cutting lots of air
[21:48:29] <tjb1> skunkworks: is that guy bitching about the chargepump not working?
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[22:13:45] <skunkworks> yes
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[22:29:52] <Tom_itx> what an idiot
[22:30:02] <JT-Shop> what Tom said
[22:30:11] <Tom_itx> kinda shows the mentality of those using mach3
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[22:31:01] <JT-Shop> that's what I've seen in my limited exposure
[22:31:06] <Tom_itx> it's just happenstance it worked with no pullup
[22:31:34] <Tom_itx> anybody in any kind of digital electronics knows you need pullups on some things
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[22:32:01] <Tom_itx> well if that's what the croud looks like, i can view it from afar
[22:32:06] <JT-Shop> a lot of people just expect it to work if you plug it in
[22:32:20] <Tom_itx> you mean like the arduino croud?
[22:33:34] <JT-Shop> like the G code boy that didn't think he should have to learn G code to run a CNC machine
[22:33:51] <Tom_itx> well he shouldn't. you should just help him out
[22:34:25] <JT-Shop> and write his programs too
[22:34:43] <Tom_itx> i would but i bet he wouldn't like my rates
[22:35:31] <Tom_itx> he might need a swiss bank account for that
[22:39:59] <PCW_> You cant really have a pullup because its on the PC side of the isolation and there's no 5V available there.
[22:40:01] <PCW_> probably the best fix is for LinuxCNCs parallel port driver to set the port into EPP mode as a default
[22:43:46] <PCW_> <snark> but perhaps better to let him stay a mach user </snark>
[22:44:51] <JT-Shop> much easier that way
[22:45:00] <Tom_itx> i'm good with that
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[22:57:32] <jp__> explains why Lcnc adoption is no more prolific
[22:57:41] <jp__> not more
[22:57:49] <jp__> than it should be
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[23:08:32] <JT-Shop> so how many machines run mack3 vs LinuxCNC?
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[23:15:45] <jp__> hard to tell the numbers/ it's usualy skewed by the mavh crowd.
[23:17:53] <jp__> but the average user should have no problem with a basic lcnc setup but the mach crowd steps in and bitches about an experience from 10 years ago
[23:18:04] <JT-Shop> lol
[23:18:08] <jp__> punters
[23:18:47] <CaptHindsight> every used machine I've ever gotten was wired by someone that had little understanding of it
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[23:20:18] <CaptHindsight> from things as simple as line cords, swapping neutral and ground to wrapping analog lines around motor power conductors
[23:21:04] <jp__> i believe if the general hobbyist was given a well documented well built lcnc minmill setup they would be pleased as punch
[23:21:27] <CaptHindsight> cnc4pc tries to make it simple with RJ45's for most connections between boards and some people even mess that up
[23:23:55] <jp__> true
[23:24:43] <jdh> I got a cnc4pc board. The rj45 was more confusing than the screw terminals
[23:24:51] <CaptHindsight> but a really well documented howto for a Linuxcnc mill would be a good idea
[23:25:11] <jp__> working on it!
[23:25:39] <jdh> like the integrators manual?
[23:25:56] <jdh> or for some detailed, specific low-end setup
[23:26:12] <jdh> pport, chinese tb board?
[23:26:19] <jdh> mesa? servos?
[23:26:30] <CaptHindsight> it should be detailed and simple with no missing steps
[23:27:50] <CaptHindsight> a mom version (assuming your mom's not an engineer)
[23:28:46] <JT-Shop> that might be the Getting Started Guide
[23:29:01] <jdh> as soon as you add two choices, the detail doubles
[23:29:10] <jdh> and then each of those two choices...
[23:29:12] <jp__> lol
[23:29:21] <JT-Shop> the great thing about LinuxCNC is you can do almost anything if you set your mind to it
[23:29:25] <CaptHindsight> 3 axis stepper version
[23:29:37] <jdh> wiring too? and limits/homes?
[23:29:54] <jp__> yup
[23:29:57] <jdh> shared switches? sink/source? breakout board?
[23:30:22] <JT-Shop> far too many options to try and cover them all
[23:30:28] <CaptHindsight> people with varied degrees of missing info and abilities
[23:31:44] <jdh> the sample configs cover a lot.
[23:32:08] <jdh> wiring and associated best practices are not LCNC specific
[23:32:53] <jp__> correct thats the part where it goes for a S@#$
[23:35:03] <kwallace2> I believe the G540 charge pump works fine with a buffered BOB, without any EPP monkey business, but the G540 is marketed as having a built-in BOB, so users are loath to adding one. It's a matter of principle. :)
[23:36:14] <kwallace2> Even better, use the G540 with a Mesa card.
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[23:36:37] <jp__> either way he was an asshat
[23:36:56] <JT-Shop> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qu_rItLPTXc
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[23:37:26] <jp__> I have always found this group to be helpful when needed
[23:38:14] <jdh> there is lots of asshattery to go around.
[23:39:52] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: That's right, get all the *KIDS* to sing the song =)
[23:40:13] <JT-Shop> heres one http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MYiahoYfPGk
[23:40:42] <JT-Shop> woops http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wC67vNY9Rcg
[23:40:44] <Jymmm> This video previously contained a copyrighted audio track. Due to a claim by a copyright holder, the audio track has been muted.
[23:41:00] <JT-Shop> yea saw that
[23:41:09] <Jymmm> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_FrOQC-zEog
[23:41:18] <Jymmm> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w8CV_9dhojw
[23:41:40] <Jymmm> good video too http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_JQiEs32SqQ
[23:42:21] <Jymmm> This one is for you JT-Shop http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9hysdyVGpsE
[23:42:58] <JT-Shop> good one
[23:43:17] <Jymmm> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xKBttQmhDBw
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[23:43:40] <Jymmm> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fI8U3pPx66I
[23:43:51] <Tom_itx> is it movie night?
[23:43:52] <Jymmm> 1940 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c2aqHGaSxRI
[23:44:01] <Jymmm> Music night
[23:44:13] <Tom_itx> no audio on this one
[23:44:18] <Jymmm> which?
[23:44:23] <Tom_itx> this pc
[23:44:23] <Jymmm> skip that one
[23:44:28] <Jymmm> oh, bummer
[23:44:57] <Jymmm> they are all music, just in video form
[23:45:21] <jp__> on a goofy note anyone done a gear change on a bp knee mill
[23:46:21] -!- Valen [Valen!~Valen@c211-28-237-68.blktn6.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has joined #linuxcnc
[23:46:25] <JT-Shop> like from low to high with CNC?
[23:46:29] <jp__> yup
[23:46:45] <Valen> so I'm tossing up between steppers and servos
[23:47:05] <JT-Shop> I can barely change gears by hand, I can't image it being done with a cylinder
[23:47:12] <jp__> was thinking of using a rotary pneumatic actuator
[23:47:21] <tjb1> Anyone here run Octoprint?
[23:47:50] <Valen> the job is a lathe, with existing screws (acme) but it has 5um scales on it
[23:47:55] <JT-Shop> I'd rather toss the whole variable speed gear box out the door and just put a timing pully on the spindle and a inverter rated motor
[23:48:18] <Valen> so I'm tossing up between 387oz in steppers, a gecko 540 and that parallel port mesa card
[23:48:24] <jp__> thats why i said goofy
[23:48:37] <Valen> whole system is atound $650
[23:48:41] <CaptHindsight> http://octoprint.org/ ?
[23:49:03] <Valen> and it can do 4 axies
[23:49:07] <JT-Shop> there is no sync ring on the high low so it is a pia to change
[23:49:26] <JT-Shop> I'd never use a G540 with all the issues it has
[23:49:31] <Valen> So i was thinking I could stick one axis as the spindle, and (with a clutch) make it so i can rotate the spindle well
[23:49:47] <Valen> use it like a rotatry axis
[23:49:51] <jp__> ah Valen. That means you wont need my 5i23
[23:50:27] -!- sumpfralle [sumpfralle!~lars@c.mail.systemausfall.org] has joined #linuxcnc
[23:50:43] <Valen> option B is the 5i23, 7i43 and http://www.automationtechnologiesinc.com/products-page/nema23-m-dc-servo-motor/skewed-servo-dual-shaft-3 motors
[23:50:48] <JT-Shop> if I was going the low voltage stepper route I'd use the G251's and not be tied up with the rest of my parallel port lines
[23:50:49] <Valen> but it winds up at $950
[23:51:11] <Valen> what are the issues of the 540?
[23:51:32] <JT-Shop> charge pump, and some timing issues
[23:51:38] <jp__> JT-Shop. Yeah mine is pretty efort less but still need the spindle to rotate a bit to latch in
[23:51:55] <Valen> it seemed to have a handful of other I/O stuff on it that would have been handy, stuff like the vfd +10v interface and such
[23:52:13] <Valen> whats up with the timing?
[23:52:56] <JT-Shop> some people have has problems losing steps or something like that
[23:53:09] <Valen> the issue with the servo system is 1 it costs more, and 2 costs more money to add more axies
[23:53:29] <jp__> yeah but performance
[23:53:42] <Valen> I was planning on doing the whole "closed loop" stepper thing using the linear scales
[23:53:44] <JT-Shop> what are your requirements? that should tell you what to get
[23:53:57] <JT-Shop> that tends to be a time sink
[23:54:00] <Valen> it was meant to be cheap ;-> but we don't like crappy stuff either
[23:54:20] <Valen> its just the scales are already on there, so it seems a shame not to use them yaknow
[23:54:51] <JT-Shop> yea that does seem to be a problem that shows up a lot
[23:56:15] <JT-Shop> what size lathe is it?
[23:56:28] <Valen> about a meter with a swing of 230
[23:57:10] <jp__> valen why did you say 5i23 & 7i43 did you mean either or
[23:57:33] <Valen> got my numbers mixed
[23:57:48] <Valen> the "400w" dual driver
[23:57:57] <jp__> ah
[23:58:00] <Valen> getting the high voltage one, 80v 7A
[23:58:11] <Valen> we have a 48v 1Kw power supply sitting here
[23:58:27] <JT-Shop> so bigger than a desktop lathe... with acme screws
[23:58:51] -!- _BJFreeman [_BJFreeman!~bjfree@124.sub-75-196-103.myvzw.com] has joined #linuxcnc
[23:58:58] <Valen> something like this http://www.machineryhouse.com.au/L183
[23:59:08] <Valen> we put a VFD spindle on it
[23:59:41] <JT-Shop> Andy refitted one about that size I think
[23:59:44] _BJFreeman is now known as BJfreeman
[23:59:56] <kwallace2> Servos don't have to be expensive if you can be patient (on eBay) and creative (recycling) .