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[01:00:46] <RyanS> hmm that bridgeport I'm looking at is pictured with its quill down, which leads me to think it was used a lot whilst extended... Which is bad right?
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[01:47:35] <CaptHindsight> RyanS: have pics of the mill?
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[02:25:15] <CaptHindsight> anyone ever work with one of these bridgport clones?
http://www.birminghammachines.com/Manual%20Machines/Mills/Birmingham%20mills.htm
[02:25:30] <CaptHindsight> all the parts are a slightly different size so they aren't interchangeable except for the drawbar and collets
[02:49:54] <ssi> are you gonna buy that mill off craigslist?
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[02:50:16] <CaptHindsight> who was looking for a Bridgeport Series II?
[02:50:25] <ssi> I am if the price is right
[02:50:35] <CaptHindsight> looked at it earlier, it has some missing parts
[02:50:43] <ssi> the birmingham? or the series II
[02:50:53] <CaptHindsight> the Birmingham
[02:51:08] <CaptHindsight> somebody here was looking for BP-II
[02:52:13] <CaptHindsight> the Birmingham has the quill handle and return spring missing as well as the power downfeed linkage is broken
[02:52:29] <CaptHindsight> like it was wacked with a sledge
[02:52:51] <ssi> gross
[02:53:05] <ssi> I'm looking for some kind of small VMC
[02:53:24] <ssi> prolly gonna sneak up and swipe pete's while he's sleeping
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[02:57:18] <CaptHindsight> heh
[02:57:47] <CaptHindsight> same here, i saw lots of VMC's about 2 months ago
[02:58:00] <CaptHindsight> now that I need one I can't find any nearby
[02:58:04] <ssi> the problem I have is a) I don't have room for one (I can make room)
[02:58:20] <ssi> and b) now that I have a 5000lb forklift, I want a VMC, and all VMCs are 7500 and up
[02:58:26] <ssi> never ends
[02:59:00] <Tom_itx> hope you got tall celings too
[02:59:10] <CaptHindsight> 25ft here
[02:59:12] <ssi> eh it'll probably end up in a hangar
[02:59:14] <ssi> so 30'
[02:59:23] <ssi> I don't think I have room for it here
[03:00:32] <CaptHindsight> http://rockford.craigslist.org/tls/3907653181.html Bridgeport Series II Special
[03:00:59] <ssi> that's pretty nice
[03:02:03] <CaptHindsight> http://southbend.craigslist.org/tls/3905268009.html Hurco Vertical Mill - $2500
[03:03:32] <CaptHindsight> ssi: no price listed but are you looking for something this size?
http://chicago.craigslist.org/nwc/tls/3900080739.html
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[03:15:40] <ssi> nah something bigger than that
[03:16:06] <ssi> I wouldn't kick a tormach out of bed, but I want something like a 30x20x20 or so
[03:16:16] <ssi> plus a tormach would be too many moneys for what it is
[03:16:50] <ssi> I want some kind of nice old 80s or early 90s iron with a crappy control that's not worth anything to anyone as is
[03:17:13] <CaptHindsight> yeah, I see them all the time just not recently
[03:17:36] <CaptHindsight> Mazak and similar, dead control $2-5K
[03:18:32] <ssi> yea
[03:18:51] <ssi> assuming I could find one that I could afford to move and find a place for, that's the sort of thing I want
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[03:21:19] <CaptHindsight> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Cincinnati-750-20-dk-versipower-3axis-cnc-bed-mill-milling-machine-vert-horzn-/171068246240?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item27d47648e0
[03:21:49] <ssi> lul that might be a bit big
[03:22:25] <CaptHindsight> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Kitamura-My-Center-2-CNC-Mill-/261238902455?pt=US_Heavy_Equipment&hash=item3cd30d4eb7
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[03:22:35] <CaptHindsight> looks like a nice ATC on it
[03:22:57] <ssi> yea t hat's getting into the ballpark
[03:28:07] <CaptHindsight> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Hurco-MD1-vertical-machining-center-/171066021430?pt=US_Heavy_Equipment&hash=item27d4545636
[03:28:57] <CaptHindsight> still works though
[03:29:01] <ssi> yea
[03:29:05] <ssi> hell my HNC still worked when I got it
[03:29:10] <ssi> but it only took punch tape :P
[03:29:33] <Tom_itx> we converted a brigeport from tape to DNC
[03:30:33] <Tom_itx> now archivist has the books on the bridgeport :)
[03:30:47] <CaptHindsight> http://www.ebay.com/itm/KITAMURA-CNC-Dual-Spindle-Mycenter-3W-Vertical-Machining-Center-/141008889438?pt=US_Heavy_Equipment&hash=item20d4c8e65e
[03:30:48] <Tom_itx> or should soon
[03:30:52] <CaptHindsight> $1500
[03:31:19] <CaptHindsight> oh, starting bid
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[03:33:26] <ssi> peet
[03:33:49] <PetefromTn> Ssi!!!
[03:34:00] <ssi> what's shakin
[03:35:01] <PetefromTn> Mehl just got back from a meeting with a customer about custom kitchen I am gonna be building for them.
[03:35:23] <ssi> super
[03:36:26] <PetefromTn> Yeah I guess it will be if I get the job.
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[03:37:36] <PetefromTn> Tomorrow gonna try to run an engraving program with my new head.
[03:38:58] <PetefromTn> I got the mount finished today with a new socket head capscrew bolt.
[03:39:00] <ssi> sweet :)
[03:39:18] <ssi> I'm hacking hm2 source
[03:39:22] <ssi> trying to anyway
[03:39:39] <PetefromTn> Better you than me..
[03:41:36] <ssi> I suppose :P
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[03:43:29] <CaptHindsight> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Matsuura-MC-500V-CNC-Vertical-Mill-/321155781717?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4ac6605455
[03:43:43] <CaptHindsight> "We no longer have staff that know how to run it. "
[03:44:29] <ssi> lol
[03:44:44] <ssi> dat tooling
[03:45:03] <CaptHindsight> are you east coast?
[03:45:07] <PetefromTn> That is one of the machines I was considering when I was looking for my machine.
[03:45:08] <ssi> atlanta
[03:46:38] <PetefromTn> Except I would want the half enclosure model.
[03:46:58] <ssi> yea
[03:48:00] <PetefromTn> I hear the machines are very well made but parts are quite expensive since they are Japanese made.
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[03:50:29] <CaptHindsight> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Matsura-VM760-CNC-Vertical-Mill-/200939479608?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2ec8ed2238
[03:50:40] <CaptHindsight> $8,500.00
[03:51:24] <ssi> that's nice and close, but probably a bit on the large and expensive side
[03:51:48] <CaptHindsight> spring cleaning must be over
[03:52:05] <ssi> yea
[03:52:56] <ssi> k my hm2_bcc skeleton builds
[03:52:58] <ssi> hooray
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[04:01:48] <PetefromTn> Whazzat?
[04:02:11] <ssi> I'm working on a hm2 driver for this Blank Canvas Cape
[04:02:19] <ssi> it's a cape for the beaglebone that has an s3200a fpga on it
[04:02:25] <ssi> I want to make it behave like a mini-mesa card
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[04:02:51] <PetefromTn> Whatsa cape?
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[04:03:01] <ssi> it's an expansion board
[04:03:13] <ssi> they call them capes because theres' a notch in it for the ethernet jack, and it makes it look like a cape
[04:03:30] <PetefromTn> Aah
[04:04:03] <ssi> my goal is to have linuxcnc running on the BBB, with this fpga cape attached, and a mesa daughtercard (like the 7i77) attached to the fpga cape
[04:04:17] <ssi> and be able to run my machines on that stack instead of having to buy a dell
[04:04:29] <zultron> Ah hah, I've been wondering about how they picked that word, 'cape'
[04:04:47] <PetefromTn> What's wrong with a dell?
[04:05:05] <zultron> What's wrong with the PRU? ;)
[04:05:20] <zultron> You running servos over there?
[04:05:22] <ssi> well a refurb dell costs at least three times as much money and is a thousand times bulkier
[04:05:25] <ssi> zultron: yes
[04:08:47] <ssi> PetefromTn:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BOOKlWDCIAAkvBn.jpg:large
[04:09:50] <CaptHindsight> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Bridgeport-Textron-mill-/111108800048?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item19de99be30
[04:10:39] <ssi> sweet, $27
[04:10:52] <CaptHindsight> it's worth at least $30
[04:10:55] <ssi> AT LEAST
[04:11:20] <ssi> I need a tasty beverage
[04:11:37] <PetefromTn> So thatsa computer?
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[04:12:32] <ssi> yep
[04:13:04] <ssi> a computer and a hardware machine interface, with any luck :)
[04:13:16] <PetefromTn> Cool...
[04:14:12] <ssi> https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BOOL6dDCQAAdz6_.jpg
[04:14:24] <ssi> on the left is a computer, on the right is the FPGA cape
[04:14:28] <ssi> the "blank canvas cape"
[04:15:21] <CaptHindsight> HexChat: 2.9.5 ** OS: Linux 3.9.5-201.fc18.x86_64 x86_64 ** Distro: Fedora release 18 (Spherical Cow) ** CPU: 6 x AMD Phenom(tm) II X6 1090T Processor (AuthenticAMD) @ 800MHz ** RAM: Physical: 5.3GB, 55.3% free ** Disk: Total: 1.8TB, 43.1% free ** VGA: Advanced Micro Devices [AMD] nee ATI RS880 [Radeon HD 4200] ** Sound: HDA-Intel - HDA ATI SB1: HDA-Intel - HDA ATI HDMI *
[04:15:21] <CaptHindsight> * Ethernet: Realtek Semiconductor Co., Ltd. RTL8111/8168 PCI Express Gigabit Ethernet controller ** Uptime: 1w 2d 6h 43m 30s **
[04:15:27] <qrp> yes, cool, if you can use fpga to send pulse
[04:15:52] <ssi> qrp: that's a solved problem. I'm just going to use hostmot firmware on it
[04:16:05] <zultron> Nice, Fedora. That's my main platform.
[04:16:19] <zultron> Well, el6 really, Fedora next.
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[04:17:52] <qrp> I think linuxcnc use task to generate pulse is not a good idea, we can improve it
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[04:23:06] <qrp> Matsura VM760 CNC Vertical Mill may a little old, I think, look at the monitor, maybe more than ten years, you have many work to do to make it work well
[04:23:40] <ssi> that's the point :)
[04:23:52] <ssi> I love machines with good iron and ancient controls :)
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[04:25:00] <qrp> many mechanical part need to be replaced, such as screw
[04:26:42] <qrp> ancient control is very cool, but acient cnc may have many interesting operation requirement
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[04:30:05] <qrp> the cast iron of old machine is the best, but there are also many consumption iron part, bearing, screw and so on
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[04:40:29] <CaptHindsight> zultron: the LiveCD has ~6uS latency jitter on this box
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[04:45:23] <zultron> That's about what I get on my older Athlon 64-bit mobos with Xenomai.
[04:46:18] <CaptHindsight> not sure is coreboot will make things any lower
[04:46:23] <CaptHindsight> is/if
[04:46:49] <zultron> (running el6, not Debian-derivatives)
[04:47:41] <zultron> I doubt coreboot would make a difference, but that's a very uninformed statement.
[04:49:17] <CaptHindsight> some of the chipsets use an EC that has closed firmware
[04:49:53] <CaptHindsight> it's a small binary blob that coreboot still has to use if you want to use the EC
[04:50:59] <ssi> bleh
[04:51:14] <ssi> I don't understand the deep magic that goes into the rtapi module loading
[04:51:36] <CaptHindsight> or you can just not use the EC but then you might also not have the onchip NIC or some other peripheral that relies on the EC
[04:53:21] <ssi> AHA
[04:54:06] <ssi> got it
[04:59:09] <qrp> 6us, very good
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[05:02:42] <qrp> I once see the composition of the acient FANUC cnc system, the use microcontroller, 80C186, I think we rely on the cpu too much, that cause an expensive cost
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[05:03:50] <CaptHindsight> Linuxcnc has been run on $5 cpu's
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[05:05:21] <qrp> this box mayve jitter is 6us, but that means what? what is the max pulse speed?
[05:05:40] <qrp> for example, screw 5mm
[05:06:56] <qrp> for example, screw is 5mm, one pulse mean 1um, then what is the max rapid speed of the linuxcnc on the box?
[05:07:11] <CaptHindsight> AMD A4-3300 Llano 2.5GHz Socket FM1 65W Dual-Core Desktop APU (CPU + GPU) with DirectX 11 Graphic AMD Radeon HD 6410D is only $40
[05:07:19] <ssi> depends on a lot of factors :P
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[05:08:08] <qrp> yes, depends on manty factors, but I think the most important factor is the pulse generate method,
[05:08:37] <qrp> of course, I means step type, using parport
[05:12:17] <CaptHindsight> http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/2.4/html/config_stepconf.html try using the wizard
[05:13:07] <CaptHindsight> http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/2.4/html/motion_tweaking_steppers.html
[05:14:05] <qrp> thank you , I will read this carefully
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[05:15:06] <CaptHindsight> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/uploads/StepTimingCalculator.ods
[05:15:22] <RyanS> Is this the sort of service I should look for to transport a bridgeport
http://www.quicktow.com.au/SERVICES just a general transport company?
[05:16:08] <CaptHindsight> RyanS: they are easily moved with a tiltbed tow truck
[05:17:10] <CaptHindsight> getting them to and from the tiltbed is the most difficult part if you don't have a forklift
[05:17:39] <qrp> Figure: Normally Open Switches, I think this figure may mislead the reader, for limit swith , swith is closed is suggested, because this can prevent the problem of wiring borken
[05:17:59] <CaptHindsight> I picked up a BP from a garage last year, the guy selling it was 75 year old machinist and was only 5' 2"
[05:18:34] <CaptHindsight> when we got there with the truck he had moved it out of his garage by himself using a pole and 1" rods for rollers
[05:18:36] <RyanS> how did he reach the drawbar?
[05:18:55] <CaptHindsight> step ladder
[05:19:06] <ssi> I got mine off a tiltbed and moved 50' with just pipes
[05:19:23] <RyanS> lol.. Do most people need a stepladder?
[05:19:25] <ssi> got it on the truck with a forklift at the seller's end
[05:19:39] <ssi> truck driver tilted the bed and extended it out, set the edge inside my garage
[05:19:51] <ssi> we slid the machine down til the corner was on the concrete, and then pulled the bed out from under it
[05:19:54] <ssi> was easypeasy
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[05:21:28] <RyanS> These things are usually not available in Australia but
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/271230851650?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2649 so have no idea what it's worth here
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[05:22:26] <CaptHindsight> ~1K and up in the US
[05:22:41] <CaptHindsight> ask Valen
[05:23:00] <CaptHindsight> but he's not around now
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[05:23:10] <qrp> interesting
[05:23:20] <RyanS> ... they are never on sale here
[05:23:42] <CaptHindsight> I was looking for used BP's and similar a year or two ago in Australia
[05:24:11] <CaptHindsight> he said <$2K was a steal there
[05:25:26] <qrp> the price is nice
[05:25:28] <RyanS> I'm a bit reluctant to get a quote shipping yet.. but I'm not doing it myself... I wouldn't have a clue whether it costs $200 or $1000 to transport
[05:25:40] <CaptHindsight> how far?
[05:25:49] <RyanS> 30km
[05:25:54] <CaptHindsight> should be like towing a car
[05:26:23] <CaptHindsight> tow truck $200 a rigger $2k
[05:26:30] <qrp> go and have a look
[05:26:33] <qrp> first
[05:26:51] <CaptHindsight> run it and see how it sounds
[05:27:04] <qrp> see the condition of the machine
[05:27:12] <CaptHindsight> if you can't find parts you'll have it back on ebay :)
[05:27:19] <qrp> yes,run first if it can
[05:27:51] <RyanS> I'm a bit concerned about the quill being extended.. You not need to machine like that right?
[05:28:46] <CaptHindsight> it's good to see it down, you can see any scoring
[05:28:57] <RyanS> the knee ways look pretty dry
[05:29:05] <CaptHindsight> but you need to see it up close
[05:29:38] <CaptHindsight> is it all rusty?
[05:30:15] <qrp> this price.... you want it dry and not rusty and work well
[05:30:26] <RyanS> I know but considering it looks messy it leads me to think that the previous owner machined with quill extended. Which is bad right..?
[05:30:35] <CaptHindsight> I've seen some stored outdoor and with a light brown coating of oxide :)
[05:30:56] <RyanS> This is it
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/271230851650?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2649
[05:31:45] <RyanS> I'm looking at my eight-foot ceiling and I can't imagine how this machine can be 10'
[05:31:59] <CaptHindsight> I've seen some with the head cracked around the quill with "just needs to be welded" in the ad
[05:34:03] <RyanS> Shouldn't there be a black spoked handwheel on the left-hand side of the quill?
[05:36:15] <CaptHindsight> http://www.ebay.com/itm/BRIDGEPORT-SERIES-I-VERTICAL-MILLING-MACHINE-2-HP-MOTOR-VARIABLE-SPEED-/281115211291?pt=US_Heavy_Equipment&hash=item4173c5b61b
[05:37:24] <RyanS> Is that expensive for that condition?
[05:37:36] <CaptHindsight> just for the pics ^^
[05:38:18] <CaptHindsight> http://www.ebay.com/itm/BRIDGEPORT-9-x-42-VERTICAL-MILLING-MACHINE-8-SPEED-/360686431621?pt=US_Heavy_Equipment&hash=item53fa962d85
[05:38:30] <CaptHindsight> more common price here ^^
[05:39:54] <RyanS> yeah this one I am looking at has no black handwheel
[05:41:35] <RyanS> so if the table is loose in the centre and then tight when you crack it to the end, it's pretty screwed?
[05:43:11] <CaptHindsight> any old one with lots of use is like that, the screws get worn
[05:43:27] <CaptHindsight> are you going to convert it to cnc?
[05:43:42] <RyanS> no I doubt it
[05:43:45] <CaptHindsight> if so you're going to change to ballscrews anyway
[05:45:05] <RyanS> SO is not actually the slideway surfaces that get worn?
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[05:46:21] <CaptHindsight> that to, so thats why it's best to see it in person
[05:48:57] <RyanS> yeah, I read there was a tell-tale sign of a *really* worn machine something to do with the knee?
[05:50:01] <CaptHindsight> I have one like that and i can still use it
[05:50:17] <CaptHindsight> depends on what you're doing
[05:52:43] <RyanS> put it this way, the alternative is a new RF45 clone for $1900.... in my budget
[05:56:21] <ssi> the bridgport will be way more machine
[05:56:24] <ssi> assuming it's usable
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[05:59:39] <RyanS> But it's like a used car if it's making weird noises probably don't buy?
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[06:00:53] <CaptHindsight> http://tinyurl.com/lmcvxvr this guy really sounds tired of this, he even will load for free
[06:03:42] <RyanS> What about to Australia?
[06:04:10] <RyanS> lol
[06:04:17] <RyanS> Express post
[06:07:45] <CaptHindsight> flat rate USPS 20lbs is ~$75 3-5 days
[06:08:54] <ssi> yea i noticed that earlier when you linked it
[06:09:01] <ssi> sounds like a badly done conversion :P
[06:09:26] <RyanS> How on earth can you " load it onto a trailer"
[06:09:39] <ssi> big forklift or crane
[06:09:40] <CaptHindsight> a shipping container to Australia is ~$3K
[06:10:06] <RyanS> I don't think it would fit lol
[06:10:14] <CaptHindsight> whats the import duty on used machine tools?
[06:10:28] <ssi> I'd probably try to grab that matsuura
[06:10:34] <ssi> I'm just concerned with unloading it on this end
[06:10:42] <ssi> unless I could partially disassemble it
[06:10:46] <ssi> get it down to 5k chunks
[06:10:46] <ssi> heh
[06:12:41] <RyanS> buyer says to wife... "I'm having something delivered, it's not really that big".... Machine arrives.... Divorce
[06:13:24] <ssi> :D
[06:14:08] <CaptHindsight> Milwaukee is only 60 miles for me, not sure if i want to mess with it
[06:14:33] <CaptHindsight> http://www.ebay.com/itm/PRATT-WHITNEY-BEAVER-V5-CNC-VERTICAL-MACHINING-CENTER-26541-/370712909484?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item56503616ac
[06:18:01] <CaptHindsight> there was an old Arcoloc for $2k that worked
[06:22:10] <CaptHindsight> http://columbus.craigslist.org/for/3865734241.html
[06:22:34] <RyanS> Someone on a forum said a BP was as "rigid as a wet noodle".. lol
[06:23:28] <RyanS> a bit top-heavy I guess...
[06:24:02] <CaptHindsight> big drill press
[06:29:23] <ssi> compared to some machines, yes
[06:29:35] <ssi> compared to an RF45... I think you'll be quite happy with it
[06:31:06] <RyanS> .... I can see it going for $3k with everyone fighting for the rarity it is here in Australia
[06:31:27] <RyanS> Too much for me
[06:33:02] <CaptHindsight> oh, you're down in Melbourne
[06:33:42] <CaptHindsight> thats where i found an entire shop of equipment for sale
[06:37:19] <CaptHindsight> http://machines4u.cachefly.net/view/advert/Tos-FA-3-AU-Milling-Machine/91906/
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[06:44:58] <RyanS> Horizontal is probably only marginally useful for hobbyist?
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[06:52:38] <DJ9DJ> moin
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[07:47:03] <Loetmichel> mornin
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[08:22:15] <RyanS> Is this some sort of aftermarket power feed?
http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/OTc5WDk3OQ==/z/s3gAAOxyuGFRzlDo/$%28KGrHqJ,!mIFGrfs+ko2BRzlDoi0e!~~60_12.JPG is it usually on the same circuit as motor (ie 3 phase too)?
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[09:42:26] <Tom_itx> ssi, cape sounds way cooler than shield anyway :)
[09:45:01] <Tom_itx> JT-Shop-2, in case you miss the scrollback:
http://pastebin.com/UPTrWUF4
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[10:34:06] <jthornton> Tom_itx, got it thanks
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[11:05:27] <qrp> i find a tiny bug for linuxcnc , in chinese version, stepconf can't choose inch or mm
[11:07:41] <jthornton> a translation problem?
[11:08:04] <jthornton> http://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=6744
[11:08:13] <qrp> no, just can't choose item
[11:09:49] <qrp> in english version, you can choose inch or mm, in chinese version, item just shows inch/mm, so you can't choose
[11:10:42] <jthornton> I wonder if it is a problem with the po translation file
[11:10:42] <qrp> tomorrow I will print screen for you, now I am in home
[11:11:10] <jthornton> you should file a bug report with the link above
[11:11:23] <qrp> ok, i am fresh, sorry
[11:11:42] <qrp> i will give bug report
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[12:18:37] <archivist> cute hardinge fleabay 261236850405
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[12:58:41] <skunkworks> awww
[12:58:53] <skunkworks> I think the base weighs more than the mill...
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[13:13:45] <cradek> looks like a useful basement machine
[13:16:12] <archivist> or clockmakers mill
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[13:22:00] <skunkworks> http://electronicsam.com/images/emco/emco.JPG
[13:22:17] <skunkworks> http://electronicsam.com/images/emco/terco.JPG
[13:23:04] <archivist> ew a raid!
[13:23:30] <skunkworks> http://electronicsam.com/images/emco/emcoclose.JPG
[13:23:50] <archivist> I have repaired one of those yellow emco lathes
[13:24:35] <cradek> don't they usually have little turrets?
[13:24:47] <skunkworks> cradek, I think that is an option.
[13:25:13] <skunkworks> These have the quickchange tool posts like your little sherline had
[13:25:25] <skunkworks> I wish they did ;)
[13:26:01] <archivist> is this a clean up and profit operation ?
[13:26:20] <skunkworks> I think for a few of them..
[13:26:23] * skunkworks wants one...
[13:26:36] * skunkworks has space in the basement..
[13:27:43] <syyl_ws> truck full of emcos Oo
[13:27:47] <syyl_ws> what the..?
[13:28:07] <syyl_ws> and a small arboga mill
[13:28:27] <syyl_ws> raid in a school?
[13:35:28] <skunkworks> yes
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[16:17:05] <Jymmmm> cradek: ping
[16:20:37] <cradek> ICMP redirect
[16:21:49] <Jymmmm> arp -s cradek 0.0.0.0
[16:23:02] <Jymmmm> cradek: Have you ever done a longevity test on you tape backups? Backed up something 80 years ago and still see it it's readable?
[16:24:53] <archivist> tapes often fail over time, depends on who and how they were made as well as storage conditions
[16:24:55] <t12> modern tape is specced at 10-15y shelf life
[16:25:19] <archivist> some like cold damp some like warm dry
[16:25:53] <t12> usually the tape technology advances faster than lifetime
[16:25:54] <archivist> archives are learning a baking trick for a one time get the data off technique
[16:26:03] <cradek> I recently restored a bunch of early-80s tapes, HP brand, they all worked perfectly
[16:26:08] <t12> so when your current drives are eol, but new ones and migrate data
[16:26:16] <t12> s/but/buy
[16:26:38] <cradek> it's foolish (for my predecessors) to let them sit that long, of course
[16:26:53] <archivist> old audio and video tapes are dying
[16:26:57] <t12> rarely does anyone budget tape stuff correctly
[16:27:04] <Jymmmm> cradek: what type of tapes were they?
[16:27:08] <t12> im kinda fighting that at work currently
[16:27:59] <cradek> oh those old cartridges whatever they were called
[16:28:10] <t12> dat?
[16:28:17] <cradek> not that that's relevant for decisions today
[16:28:19] <Jymmmm> cradek: Colorado?!
[16:28:19] <archivist> dc150
[16:28:25] <cradek> no, way before dat, not helical scan
[16:28:36] <t12> 8mm?
[16:28:51] <cradek> no, those are also helical
[16:28:52] <t12> what were the vax tapes called?
[16:29:12] <archivist> dc150 and dc300 were before 8mm
[16:29:14] <Jymmmm> cradek:
http://www.ebay.com/sch/sis.html?_kw=Colorado+Jumbo+120+Tape+Drive+tape+backup+system+-+new
[16:29:56] <Jymmmm> ehhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEehhhhhhhhhhhhhhEEEEEEEEEEEE...
[16:30:13] <Jymmmm> gawd those were annoying
[16:30:13] <cradek> dc150 might be right
[16:30:35] <cradek> this one says CERTIFIED DATA CARTRIDGE 150 ft.
[16:31:06] <archivist> we used them on the Altos 1000
[16:31:26] <archivist> then had to move up to 300 then 600 then ...
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[16:32:01] <cradek> I booted from one of them (HP RMB Basic on a 68k) to restore the rest
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[16:33:25] <Connor> I liked the Travan back in the day.
[16:33:58] <cradek> http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_EHvV5WJmggk/TVLNFY0uUaI/AAAAAAAAAqY/oZI_HMYxaDY/s1600/P090211_17.480001.JPG
[16:34:18] <cradek> looks like this, except mine are 150ft and therefore probably 10-15 MB
[16:34:53] <archivist> those 3M tapes were pretty bomb proof
[16:34:53] <cradek> I suppose they came in different lengths - that 45 looks pretty full but this one I have looks pretty empty
[16:35:43] <archivist> later on there was a thinner tape version which could get a gig on it
[16:36:18] <Connor> I remember back in the day.. a kit that turned your VCR into a backup device..
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[16:36:21] <cradek> I suppose these are multi-track (not helical) but I don't know for sure
[16:36:41] <cradek> Connor: at one time I had a full-size isa card that supposedly did that, but I never tried it
[16:36:50] <cradek> Connor: had moved on to floppy tape (shudder) by then
[16:39:42] <Connor> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ArVid
[16:41:41] <cradek> wow, 2 Gb
[16:42:02] <Connor> the ones I was talking about was like 80Mb.
[16:42:27] <cradek> I thought mine had an rf (bnc) connector on the card
[16:42:59] <Connor> Probably had a VGA to composit adapter or something..
[16:43:03] <cradek> er no, not bnc, the screw-on one
[16:43:22] <Connor> COAX
[16:44:36] <Connor> I still have parts of my original XT computer.
[16:44:54] <Connor> The 20Mb Hard drives..
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[16:58:53] <IchGuckLive> hi all B)
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[17:39:58] <CaptHindsight> http://www.tpactools.com/3-Axis-Package_c_14.html anyone ever order linear glass scales from these guys?
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[17:47:17] <IchGuckLive> CaptHindsight: its analog with speppers no need as you cand correect the system
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[18:04:44] <pcw_home> Doug Engelbart RIP
[18:08:48] <archivist> I admit I had to google him after seeing Als message
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[18:12:16] <CaptHindsight> haven't seen anything on the news yet
[18:12:42] <CaptHindsight> pcw_home: where did you hear about his passing?
[18:12:58] <archivist> just got announced on the classicmp mailing list
[18:13:40] <pcw_home> A real pioneer
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[21:03:03] <DJ9DJ> gn8
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[21:09:02] <PetefromTn> Forgive me but what the hell does gn8 mean?
[21:09:26] <Tom_itx> good night
[21:09:59] <Tom_itx> sorta like l8r
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[21:10:46] <PetefromTn> okay thats what I thought but wasn't sure.
[21:10:49] <PetefromTn> thanks.
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[22:37:50] <andypugh> I wonder how hard it is to make collets?
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[22:38:32] <andypugh> I would assume that if you turn the outer, then bore in-situ, then split, then they will be perfect?
[22:39:00] <andypugh> Ho mah
[22:39:52] <mhaberler> hi
[22:40:31] <mhaberler> trying to wake up, or the other way round - clock confused
[22:40:44] <andypugh> Back in .at?
[22:40:58] <mhaberler> yes, a few hours back
[22:41:27] <andypugh> I settled on staying awake until local night. Seemed to work.
[22:42:08] <andypugh> But I sleep oddly anyway. I was last out and first in for most of the Wichita meet.
[22:42:09] <mhaberler> trying to answer your singleton question, but it looks a coffee is on order first
[22:42:37] <mhaberler> well I tacked on a week in ca+or, so thats a bonus 2hrs
[22:42:47] <andypugh> I am thinking that as the database is inherently a singleton, it doesn't matter.
[22:43:21] <mhaberler> the db: yes; the interp readahead context: trying to determine if there could be more than one
[22:43:30] <andypugh> Though perhaps a patricular instance (readahead) might want to fork the database.
[22:43:39] <mhaberler> right
[22:43:53] <andypugh> Or, more likely, just not be allowed to commit the database.
[22:44:10] <mhaberler> the way I view this (assuming you could suspend and switch to a secondary interpreter, say mdi-while-paused:
[22:45:05] <andypugh> mdi-while-paused only makes sense if it can both commit and propogate the database.
[22:45:19] <mhaberler> right
[22:45:49] <mhaberler> it is a bit more than the db; its the interp state too (settings, modes, position etc)
[22:46:11] <andypugh> Which rather mandates "all components use live data all the time, except when they have a private copy explicitly"
[22:46:41] <mhaberler> not sure
[22:46:50] <andypugh> settings is a puzzle. It is there, it is convenient.
[22:48:08] <mhaberler> the issue IMV are the ops which modify say a tool property during ra and that becomes applied only once the matching canon command gets executed
[22:48:29] <mhaberler> or a g5x
[22:48:31] <andypugh> I rather think that we need to reconsider globals in general. They may be a bad idea in the IT-theory sense, but we are working with real-space objects.
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[22:49:20] <mhaberler> ah, the messy state model - frankly I think some ops should be taken out, like modifying g5x by the interp during a run
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[22:50:07] <andypugh> I am saving up the G10 problem. That is the only place where readahead pushes something forwards into realtime.
[22:50:23] <mhaberler> let me look that up
[22:50:53] <mhaberler> yes, that one should be removed ;)
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[22:51:46] <andypugh> Would make life easier, but it is standard G-code.
[22:52:14] <andypugh> I am not convinced anyone ever uses it in live G-code.
[22:52:27] <andypugh> it may be purely an MDI thing.
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[22:53:35] <mhaberler> it would be superb if one could restrict G10 impact to 'frozen at start of a run' (which is concept which is lacking right now; it's a sequence of rs274ngc commands executed in one go; each MDI is one 'run')
[22:54:10] <mhaberler> it lacks also for a completely different reason: motion cannot tell if its at the end of a run, or the queue underran because of some delay
[22:54:42] <mhaberler> the tp has to deal with that
[22:55:32] <mhaberler> its this line:
http://git.mah.priv.at/gitweb?p=emc2-dev.git;a=blob;f=src/emc/kinematics/tp.c;h=c115d91f85070733f84f3ea03aa45f491215f3c8;hb=refs/heads/master#l688
[22:55:37] <mhaberler> where it cannot tell
[22:57:22] <andypugh> Yay! for there being comment!
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