#linuxcnc | Logs for 2013-05-12

[00:00:08] <robh__> not sure what your trying to do i read a small part of it throught u was trying to get a ramp in on pocket start but maybe not
[00:00:17] <robh__> trying to hold down in a pocket, not move to a Z clear hight?
[00:00:29] <Connor> PetefromTn: Okay. On the pocket... it moves the tool up to "safe" height.. which I can specify. I tend to only make it .125" above the work.. (this is for pockets)
[00:00:33] <PetefromTn> Just a simple pocket with successive depths of .050 in a 2" pocket .5 deep...
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[00:01:19] <robh__> well normaly it moves to the safe hight part which is what ever you define normal say 2mm above part stock... unless you ask for hold down or tell it clearence is last cut depth
[00:01:36] <PetefromTn> robh__: yeah the move to safe Z height is a waste of time cutting air and is in every single pocket or profile cut I do..
[00:02:01] <PetefromTn> robh__: Clearance is last cut depth sounds yummy...
[00:02:17] <robh__> but you need to watch for any islands etc...like any cam but u just move the start point if you can
[00:02:55] <robh__> or you turn on Volume Mill and realy move some metal :)
[00:02:57] <PetefromTn> Connor: yeah that is what I do too... but the wasted air is annoying.
[00:03:17] <Connor> http://pastebin.com/SDgtMjAB
[00:03:23] <Connor> 2" circle inside profile..
[00:03:26] <Connor> No wasted air.
[00:03:30] <PetefromTn> robh__: okay...
[00:04:00] <robh__> id say it does not take that much time to rapid to clear and back in.. unless have a realy slow machine
[00:04:10] <PetefromTn> Connor: Okay man now we are getting somewhere...
[00:04:31] <robh__> unless your cam is doing a lot of lifts and back in on a pocket for some odd reason on the same depth
[00:05:25] <PetefromTn> well yeah actually it DOES take a lot of time if it does it at EACH AND EVERY DEPTH!!
[00:05:34] <Connor> http://pastebin.com/weA1vvmp
[00:05:51] <Connor> 2" profile with Spiral lead in..
[00:06:14] <Connor> Which is what I prefer to use.
[00:06:16] <PetefromTn> damn that looks better...
[00:06:30] <PetefromTn> That is an inside profile..
[00:06:44] <Connor> Yea. Same can be done on out side..
[00:07:09] <PetefromTn> but it does not work on a pocketing op...
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[00:07:19] <Connor> Let me check something.
[00:07:22] <Tom_itx> here's another one...
[00:07:37] <PetefromTn> This is interesting isn't it...
[00:07:53] <Tom_itx> http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/cnc/test/pocket.ngc
[00:08:13] <Tom_itx> i programmed the tool center
[00:08:18] <Tom_itx> so it will be over 2"
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[00:08:26] <Tom_itx> err did i?
[00:08:28] <Tom_itx> mmm
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[00:09:01] <Tom_itx> no it should be ok
[00:09:19] <PetefromTn> Tom_itx: Looks like it comes out of the cut on yours too in a pocketing op.
[00:10:13] <Connor> PetefromTn: I don't think it's going to do it on a pocket.. I think it will always retract..
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[00:10:43] <PetefromTn> I suppose I can see the reasoning behind it, if you look at the part I am working on, if the cut starts somwhere in the circle and ends in the longish parts and then moves to the start again it will rip off the corner of the straight portion...
[00:10:47] <robh__> sometimes you cant beat a bit of code edit
[00:11:29] <PetefromTn> Honestly if CamBam does this on a pocket but not a profile and has 3d toolpathing it is worth a second look that is for sure...
[00:11:46] <PetefromTn> robh__: Yeah but editing every pocket you draw would be a real pain in the ass..
[00:11:51] <Tom_itx> it shouldn't
[00:12:10] <PetefromTn> what should'nt
[00:12:38] <Tom_itx> oh it may go to z safe
[00:12:50] <PetefromTn> that's what I am talking about..
[00:13:01] <PetefromTn> its annoying waste of time.
[00:13:01] <Tom_itx> i can tell it what to do though i think
[00:13:11] <PetefromTn> show me...LOL
[00:13:12] <Tom_itx> i just posted a quick pocket
[00:13:28] <Tom_itx> you don't have smartcam
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[00:13:41] <PetefromTn> show me the posted code LOL
[00:13:55] <Tom_itx> it's in the link i posted
[00:14:02] <PetefromTn> How much is Smartcam?
[00:14:09] <Tom_itx> 8k +
[00:14:20] <PetefromTn> The link you posted the cutter comes out of the hole to safe Z
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[00:14:27] <PetefromTn> Nevermind LOL...
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[00:16:05] <Tom_itx> PetefromTn, did you get the pocket one?
[00:16:41] <PetefromTn> Got two both do the same thing..
[00:16:56] <Tom_itx> feed & speed are way off too
[00:17:00] <Tom_itx> didn't bother
[00:17:44] <Tom_itx> they do different things
[00:18:04] <Tom_itx> one cuts the pocket from the center out and the other cuts a spiral
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[00:18:58] <PetefromTn> yeah but it still goes to safe z after each depth right?
[00:19:04] <robh__> PetefromTn, dont forget you dont wanna drag that cuutter over a surface ull end up with marks if finish level or chiping the flutes too
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[00:19:16] <PetefromTn> Honestly does not matter because I am not gonna buy an 8k program
[00:19:33] <robh__> http://pastebin.com/Z2867vNz
[00:19:44] <Tom_itx> if you want full blown 3d you might
[00:20:25] <PetefromTn> robh__: yeah that would be true if you did not intend to cut that level off on the next pass tho..
[00:20:54] <robh__> i did a quick one lifts are over to the next spiral in hight inside the pocket
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[00:21:24] <Tom_itx> even so, if you rapid to the start of the next pass you're gonna drag the cutter
[00:21:47] <Tom_itx> unless you raise it to the z clear
[00:22:04] <Tom_itx> i can make z clear be .0001 if i want
[00:22:20] <PetefromTn> So can I but it is annoying..
[00:22:28] <PetefromTn> Maybe I am just a whiner LOL
[00:22:31] <Tom_itx> you are
[00:22:32] <robh__> indeed like even things like volumemill dont like u setting high speed feed links to zero
[00:22:37] <Tom_itx> it's the way it should be done
[00:23:41] <PetefromTn> I guess what I was wanting was the cutter to do the circular pocket spiraling outward, then when it reaches the end of the layers cut maybe ramp down from there and do it again but perhaps that is not possible.
[00:24:08] <Tom_itx> you'd have to reverse the cutter path each level
[00:24:18] <PetefromTn> okay sounds good...
[00:24:53] <PetefromTn> Honestly just the fact that CamBam can do this on profile is a big deal since I use a lot of profiles in my stuff...
[00:25:20] <PetefromTn> Not cracking on sheetcam here as I honestly quite like it but that is a real time saver that much is clear.
[00:25:42] <PetefromTn> Even with a faster machine that rapids at 600+ IPM like my machine that is a PIA...
[00:26:05] <robh__> depends how fast accel is too
[00:26:26] <PetefromTn> Sure does...honestly that is actually even more important most of the time..
[00:27:19] <robh__> mind u, i have seen shops with 50m/min machines but only run them at 50% speed lol becasue it scares them
[00:27:19] <PetefromTn> it takes a moment or so to reach full speed no matter what your machine is so accel rates from hole to hole nearby are even more of a factor on speed..
[00:27:46] <PetefromTn> robh__: I know mine scares me but I am just getting started using it.
[00:28:01] <robh__> yea, i know that feeling
[00:28:24] <PetefromTn> yup accel is considerably more a factor on cycle time than speed.
[00:28:25] <robh__> what are your rapids, 12m? or more
[00:28:42] <robh__> or should i convert to inch mode now
[00:29:15] <PetefromTn> Just screwing around with it as I just got it working but I can see 650 or so IPM on X and Y and 500+ on Z but it is a pucker....
[00:29:29] <PetefromTn> especially in only 20 inches in all directions.
[00:29:43] <robh__> that is nice
[00:30:06] <robh__> sometimes its what the screws will take in speed, if supported both ends they will take it nice
[00:30:08] <PetefromTn> yeah man I doubt I will actually be using it too much..
[00:30:36] <PetefromTn> right now 300 feels about right and 200 on the Z I can stand..
[00:30:56] <PetefromTn> If I got some paying repeat jobs that were run a lot I am sure I would ramp it up...
[00:31:17] <PetefromTn> Nice to know it is there tho ;P
[00:31:42] <robh__> lo, then you will wish u had a faster atc
[00:31:59] <robh__> did you get it tool changing yet?
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[00:32:28] <PetefromTn> hell no I still need to machine a Spindle motor encoder mount and get feedback working.
[00:32:52] <robh__> aah i see
[00:33:35] <PetefromTn> I do have the tool carousel ram wired up as well as the power drawbar and some sensors..
[00:33:57] <PetefromTn> Almost afraid to tackle the toolchanger really...
[00:33:58] <ssi_> JT-Shop: around? I have thcud questions
[00:34:18] <robh__> you mean try not part the tool changer off with the Z
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[00:34:34] <PetefromTn> Yes that is EXACTLY what I mean.
[00:35:11] <PetefromTn> Oh well enough BS'ing here. Gonna go do something.
[00:35:18] <PetefromTn> have a good night fellas.
[00:35:27] <robh__> cya
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[00:52:43] <Connor> What does better for inside profile finish? Climb or Conventional ?
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[00:54:20] <Tom_itx> i prefer climb but it depends on the machine rigidity
[00:54:49] <Connor> I know that one way gives a much smoother finish.. I just never can remember which way..
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[01:05:42] <Connor> Whats a good RPM / IPM for a 3/8" cutter doing 6051 Alumn ?
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[01:06:42] <Tom_itx> http://zero-divide.net/index.php?page=fswizard&shell_id=199&load_tool_id=27011
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[01:06:54] <Tom_itx> http://www.onsrud.com/plusdocs/Doc/index.html?model.code=FeedSpeeds
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[01:07:53] <LokiScarlet> Yo. Annoying newbie is back. o/
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[01:11:49] <Connor> Wow... 5300 RPM @ 50 IPM ?
[01:12:08] <Connor> That scares the sh!t out of me..
[01:12:22] <Tom_itx> are you running carbide?
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[01:12:31] <Connor> no, Thats the a HSS bit.
[01:12:45] <Tom_itx> what's your max rpm?
[01:13:17] <Connor> 6061 Alum, Solid End Mill with HSS, Tool Dia .375, Length .75, I set the DOC at 0.05, Max RPM is 6500
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[01:13:27] <Cylly> Connor: mostly the cutting speed for carbide is scaring. and mostly the hobby machines arent anywhere rigid enough to do them
[01:13:35] * LokiScarlet <that info> ------- <about 9000 meters altitude difference> ---- <my head>
[01:13:56] <Connor> http://zero-divide.net/index.php?page=fswizard&shell_id=199&load_tool_id=27011
[01:14:01] <Connor> based on that.
[01:14:25] <Tom_itx> you also need to consider what your machine will do
[01:14:34] <LokiScarlet> So uh... What's IPM? Since I'm still trying to get my laptop to work right and I'm on a tablet -_-
[01:14:46] <Tom_itx> with carbide you can cut aluminum like butter
[01:14:57] <Cylly> thats whar i meant
[01:14:58] <Cylly> ;-)
[01:15:19] <Connor> I don't have Carbide.. just HSS bits.
[01:15:30] <r00t4rd3d> http://i.imgur.com/gSzOsIn.jpg
[01:15:37] <Tom_itx> get some carbide
[01:15:48] <Connor> Planning on doing this tonight.
[01:15:56] <Tom_itx> just a sec
[01:16:19] <Connor> I mean.. I know I can cut this.. I've done it before.. but a few things has changed.. like my max RPM went from 3k to 6.5k
[01:17:34] <Cylly> i am cutting 7075 with a 2 flute carbide endmill 6mm at 15kRPM and F2400 ;-)
[01:18:46] <LokiScarlet> >finally found IPM; >inches per minute; o_O okay now I understand what you're talking about
[01:19:29] <Tom_itx> Connor, try around 5000 rpm 10 ipm
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[01:19:32] <Tom_itx> see what happens
[01:19:47] <Connor> That'll weld chips to the cutter...
[01:20:03] <Connor> I've read about running too low of IPM will cause chip welding.
[01:20:05] <gammax-Laptop1> hola hombres
[01:20:12] <Tom_itx> that's .002" chip load
[01:20:27] <Tom_itx> increase it to .004 then
[01:20:45] <Tom_itx> oh wait. i was reading the plunge feed
[01:20:52] <Tom_itx> 20 ipm
[01:21:02] <Tom_itx> .004 chip load would be 40
[01:21:16] <Connor> So what's 50 IPM at 5300rpm ?
[01:21:20] <gammax-Laptop1> if you guys had a piece of steal that needed to be 1"x1.5" would you buy the same size stock or up the size a bit?
[01:21:31] <Tom_itx> .005
[01:21:45] <Tom_itx> .0047
[01:21:56] <Connor> What are you using to get those #'s ?
[01:22:03] <Tom_itx> my cad cam
[01:22:16] <Tom_itx> any chip calc will give it
[01:22:22] <Tom_itx> the one i linked should
[01:22:34] <Connor> Is that IPT ?
[01:22:49] <Tom_itx> yes
[01:22:56] <LokiScarlet> gammax-Laptop1: I dunno about you but I'd get slightly larger. But that's probably just me. I don't even have experience with cutting
[01:22:57] <Tom_itx> 2 flute
[01:23:02] <Tom_itx> .0047 ipt
[01:23:06] <Connor> Right. That's what I use for ALumn.
[01:23:11] <Tom_itx> 5300 rpm
[01:23:23] <Tom_itx> 520 sfm
[01:23:32] <Tom_itx> 50 ipm
[01:24:11] <Connor> I'm pretty sure my machine can handle the IPM and RPM.. just not sure if it's "rigid" enough to handle it..
[01:24:18] <gammax-Laptop1> LokiScarlet, If you bought a bar of 1045 steel... would it look premachine already or just look nasty?
[01:24:21] <ssi_> gammax-Laptop1: depends on the finish you need
[01:24:21] <Connor> Says Cutting force is 39.31lb
[01:24:31] <ssi_> gammax-Laptop1: no, mostly doesn't look premachined
[01:24:33] <Connor> That's at .1 DOC
[01:24:36] <Tom_itx> Connor, one way to find out
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[01:24:56] <gammax-Laptop1> ssi_, would taking a thousandth off dothe trick on each side?
[01:25:11] <ssi> as long as it's less than a thousandth surface variation! :D
[01:25:23] <ssi> I'd plan to take at least ten mil off every face
[01:25:25] <Connor> I decrease the DOC to .05"
[01:25:26] <gammax-Laptop1> how often does that happen
[01:25:31] <LokiScarlet> Yeah if you want a good machined finish you'll want some padding in your size
[01:26:11] <gammax-Laptop1> im thinkin about buying some cheap fly cutters vs face mills...
[01:26:18] <toastyde2th> bar product should be .1" over on all dimensions if it's fresh from the steel mill
[01:26:27] <ssi> gammax-Laptop1: fly cutter is a very good way to go
[01:26:35] <ssi> I use them to great effect, and they're much cheaper than face mills
[01:26:37] <Tom_itx> Connor, also depends on your depth and width of cut
[01:26:42] <LokiScarlet> Rule of thumb for network administration, probably applies here too: Never trust stock condition
[01:26:58] <Connor> profile, 100% engagement 90% of the time.
[01:27:11] <toastyde2th> as you cut cold rolled steel, it's going to bend, so if you want a part that's flat you're going to have to cut all sides twice
[01:27:32] <gammax-Laptop1> ssi, you use shars or a quality one?
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[01:28:03] <Tom_itx> Connor, how deep?
[01:28:22] <Connor> Material is .5" thick. planning on .05" DOC
[01:29:17] <ssi> gammax-Laptop1: shars is fine
[01:29:35] <gammax-Laptop1> oh btw I picked up those keneddy boxes today. for an extra 50 bucks I got machinerys hand book, spindle indicator holder, 2 locators, uhhh and an brown and sharp indicator with extra long tips in wooden box.
[01:32:44] <Tom_itx> gammax-Laptop1 another handy book is the Machinists' Ready Reference
[01:32:49] <Tom_itx> little spiral book
[01:36:16] <gammax-Laptop1> hmmm gotta find a cheap one im broke@
[01:36:19] <gammax-Laptop1> !
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[01:37:47] <Tom_itx> holy crap the price on that went up
[01:37:54] <Connor> ??
[01:39:05] <Tom_itx> http://www.amazon.com/Machinists-Ready-Reference-6th-Edition/dp/0911168508/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1368322635&sr=8-1&keywords=Machinists%27+Ready+Reference
[01:39:25] <Tom_itx> oh, mine _is_ spiral
[01:39:28] <Connor> Wow, Paper Back vs is $$$$
[01:39:36] <Connor> the Spiral is cheaper.
[01:39:39] <Tom_itx> gotta be a misprint
[01:39:48] <ssi> more like an out of print
[01:39:56] <Tom_itx> or that
[01:39:57] <ssi> amazon does weird stuff with out of print things
[01:39:58] <r00t4rd3d> lol
[01:40:06] <Tom_itx> i haven't seen anything but spiral bound
[01:41:06] <Tom_itx> http://www.amazon.com/Machinists-Ready-Reference-C-Weingartner/dp/0970339801/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1368322824&sr=1-1&keywords=Machinists%27+Ready+Reference+8th+edition
[01:41:10] <Tom_itx> 9th edition
[01:41:14] <Tom_itx> i've got the 8th
[01:41:16] <ssi> I think this machine might be too big for me
[01:41:19] <ssi> http://atlanta.craigslist.org/atl/for/3661772392.html
[01:41:51] <r00t4rd3d> http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_sacat=0&_nkw=Machinists%27+Ready+Reference&rt=nc&LH_BIN=1
[01:41:58] <Tom_itx> never too big
[01:42:03] <ssi> it's 50klb
[01:42:04] <ssi> :(
[01:42:07] <Tom_itx> our okuma had a changer like that
[01:42:13] <Tom_itx> 99 tool iirc
[01:42:19] <ssi> although if I gtot that
[01:42:25] <ssi> I could get all andy's BT50 tooling he doesn't want
[01:42:26] <ssi> lololol
[01:42:46] <Tom_itx> that one's a 40 taper
[01:42:51] <jdh__> 22kW
[01:42:58] <ssi> oh it's contradictory
[01:43:07] <ssi> says cat40 spindle in the top, bt50 in the bottom
[01:43:10] <ssi> ATC:
[01:43:10] <ssi> Tool Shank System: MAS BT50
[01:43:11] <ssi> Pull-Stud Bolt Type: MAS Type 2
[01:43:12] <Tom_itx> we had a 50 taper
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[01:44:09] <toastyde2th> 50 taper is so heavy
[01:44:14] <toastyde2th> loading 30 tools into machine is a pain
[01:44:22] <toastyde2th> * a machine
[01:44:22] <ssi> max table capacity, 3520lb
[01:44:24] <ssi> a small car
[01:44:25] <ssi> haha
[01:46:43] <Connor> I Do love being able to run my gcode on my simulator before running on the machine.
[01:46:48] <ssi> so now that the plasma table is basically done, I need to work on the g0704
[01:51:09] <Connor> okay, RPM and Plunge IPM for .25" and .323" holes using pecking?
[01:52:00] <Tom_itx> i shut it down
[01:53:56] <Valen> I was thinking, a neat addition, hook up a kinect to the head of the mill, before running the program, scan the work area and check you arent going to try and rapid through your vice
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[02:04:35] <Tom_itx> Connor, figure around .008 ipt
[02:08:41] <Tom_itx> 4000 r 32 f
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[02:19:57] <Connor> for both? or just the .25"
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[02:25:49] <Tom_itx> i figured the .25
[02:25:58] <Tom_itx> you could start with .006 chip load
[02:30:51] <ssi> how fast do you suppose you can spin a ballscrew?
[02:31:09] <Tom_itx> depends on the diameter before it will whip
[02:31:29] <ssi> so the most whip prone one in my application is about 30" long and 5/8"
[02:31:39] <ssi> wondering if I can direct couple these servos or if I'll have to reduce them
[02:31:48] <ssi> I think they're 5300rpm motors nominally
[02:31:49] <ssi> seems fast
[02:32:11] <ssi> .200" lead screws, that'd be ~1000ipm at max speed
[02:32:12] <Tom_itx> probably a bit much, what's the pitch on them?
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[02:32:21] <ssi> probably too fast for a g0704 haah
[02:33:12] <Tom_itx> no reason to cause premature wear
[02:33:29] <ssi> I may built it direct coupled and just not run it that fast
[02:33:35] <ssi> adn then use it to make some belt reductions for itself
[02:33:49] <generic_nick|3> i am tired
[02:34:03] <generic_nick|3> cleaning the shop and sanding the floor all damn day
[02:34:09] <ssi> 5:1 reduction would put it pretty close to where I want
[02:34:10] <jdh__> i have 2:1 belt on my g0704 Z, but the other way around.
[02:34:24] <ssi> jdh__: the other way around? you're speeding up your Z travel?
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[02:34:40] <ssi> seems like you'd want a reduction on Z as well
[02:34:42] <jdh__> oh, no I was thinking of it backwards
[02:34:49] <ssi> more torque, less speed
[02:34:52] <jdh__> yeah
[02:35:21] <ssi> if I do 5:1 reduction, I'll get about 200ipm travel on each axis
[02:35:22] <jdh__> I don't need the speed
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[02:35:27] <ssi> and five times the motor torque
[02:35:43] <ssi> but the belt reductions will be bulky as crap
[02:35:58] <jdh__> I can get 180 ipm out of the steppers for x/y, but I dont' have them that fast.
[02:36:07] <ssi> yeah that's quick for that machine
[02:36:17] <jdh__> Z belt goes behind the column. You can do that for Y also.
[02:36:34] <ssi> is your Y motor on the backside of the column?
[02:36:37] <ssi> cause mine's in the front for now
[02:36:59] <jdh__> mine is on the front, you can drill through the column and mount it on the back though
[02:37:03] <ssi> yeah I thought about it
[02:37:13] <ssi> I might do that
[02:37:19] <ssi> then I can just plasma cut a plate to mount the motor on
[02:37:25] <ssi> and it can be the belt reduction
[02:37:43] <jdh__> I used the mill to make the mounts
[02:37:55] <ssi> mine's torn down irreparably :)
[02:37:59] <ssi> but I have a 9x42 manual
[02:41:14] <ssi> I need to make ballnut mounts
[02:41:20] <ssi> which involves getting a lathe functional :P
[02:42:09] <jdh__> I made mine on the mill
[02:42:16] <generic_nick|3> what came first, the chicken or the lathe
[02:42:25] <ssi> how do you thread them?
[02:43:27] <jdh__> the ballnuts are flange mount
[02:44:09] <ssi> mine aren't
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[02:49:37] <Tom_itx> get a thread mill
[02:51:59] <jdh__> can you do threadmilling on a manual mill?
[02:52:49] <Tom_itx> would be hard
[02:53:36] <Tom_itx> http://www.iscar.com/Ecat/familyHDR.asp?fnum=2828&app=120&mapp=TH&GFSTYP=M&type=1&lang=
[02:53:54] <toastyde2th> you'd need a REALLY good rotary table
[02:53:59] <toastyde2th> and a horizontal mill
[02:54:18] <toastyde2th> good rotabs can be keyed to the table screw and geared so they turn at a specific rate
[02:54:51] <jdh__> then it's not really a manual mill
[02:55:04] <toastyde2th> sure it is
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[02:55:41] <jdh__> or, you could get a tap that fit the nut
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[02:57:13] <Tom_itx> on those single point mill thread cutters, do you cut it in a single or multiple passes?
[02:57:34] <Tom_itx> lathe single point we did multi pass
[02:57:51] <Tom_itx> never tried that on a mill yet
[02:58:19] <Tom_itx> you would basically just program a helical cut right?
[02:58:45] <toastyde2th> yep
[02:58:50] <Tom_itx> probably from the bottom out?
[02:58:54] <toastyde2th> yep
[02:59:18] <toastyde2th> the better threadmills have a long ass cutting face so you really only need to go up one thread
[02:59:27] <Tom_itx> i guess you wouldn't have to have a synch'd spindle for that
[02:59:33] <toastyde2th> not a big fan of the single pointers
[02:59:44] <Tom_itx> like the one i linked...
[02:59:46] <toastyde2th> nope, no spindle synch
[03:00:01] <Tom_itx> looks like 4 point
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[03:01:42] <Tom_itx> i wanna try that sometime
[03:01:57] <Tom_itx> those cutters aren't cheap though
[03:02:10] <toastyde2th> yeah
[03:06:36] <ssi> I don't want to get the tap, because I have two different sized ballnuts
[03:06:39] <ssi> and the small tap is $70
[03:06:53] <ssi> I can thread it on the lathe
[03:06:54] <ssi> one of em :P
[03:06:59] <Tom_itx> single point thread mills are $150 +
[03:07:50] <ssi> hell I can do it on the manual lathe if I have to
[03:08:06] <Tom_itx> toastyde2th, i can't picture how those work without having spindle synch
[03:08:25] <toastyde2th> so you turn the spindle on and drop the cutter to your max depth
[03:08:38] <toastyde2th> then move the cutter out to the final diameter
[03:09:01] <Tom_itx> i know the profile it just seems it would 'strip' the threads unless it was in sync
[03:09:02] <toastyde2th> and then do a full circular helical move with the center point in the middle of the hole
[03:09:09] <toastyde2th> how would it strip the threads
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[03:09:21] <Tom_itx> the cutters i'm looking at are multi point
[03:09:22] <toastyde2th> you're profile milling
[03:09:34] <toastyde2th> it's not like a tap, it's like a regular endmill except it's gone a shape on the outside
[03:09:45] <toastyde2th> how would spindle synch work at all
[03:09:58] <ssi> think about it like this
[03:10:00] <Tom_itx> dunno, i just can't picture it in my head
[03:10:05] <Tom_itx> i'm sure it works :)
[03:10:05] <ssi> if your helical move is too slow
[03:10:16] <ssi> say, 0
[03:10:21] <ssi> if you just made a cut in a circle
[03:10:26] <ssi> it'd cut a wavy pattern in the metal that's not a thread
[03:10:56] <Connor> Tom_itx: what about the .323" drill ?
[03:11:03] <ssi> the Z component of the helical move has to be sync'd to the spindle speed and the pitch or else it'll just bore the hole clean
[03:11:04] <Tom_itx> so the points don't have pitch like a screw
[03:11:10] <Tom_itx> they're more straight
[03:11:24] <ssi> it's no different than using a full profile threading insert on a lathe
[03:11:29] <ssi> you still need spindle sync
[03:12:16] <toastyde2th> what
[03:12:32] <toastyde2th> all you need is to be able to move the z and xy at the same time
[03:12:39] <toastyde2th> the spindle just has to be on at some speed, any speed
[03:12:43] <toastyde2th> i've used both types many times
[03:12:45] <ssi> so what if the speed is 24krpm
[03:13:07] <toastyde2th> you wind up with a thread
[03:13:09] <ssi> for every revolution of the points of the mill, a full circle of metal is removed
[03:13:13] <toastyde2th> no, it isn't
[03:13:18] <ssi> why not
[03:13:30] <toastyde2th> because that's not how the tool is used
[03:13:31] <toastyde2th> it's not a tap
[03:13:38] <ssi> have a picture of the tool?+
[03:13:41] <toastyde2th> the teeth are all in line with each other, there's no helix
[03:13:47] <ssi> cause there's some sorcery that I'm not getting here
[03:13:47] <Tom_itx> Connor, try 4000 s 30 f
[03:13:55] <ssi> yeah I understand what a thread mill is
[03:14:14] <Tom_itx> toastyde2th, i get it now
[03:14:17] <toastyde2th> i can cut the same thread with the same motions at any speed
[03:14:27] <ssi> er wait
[03:14:27] <Tom_itx> if it were like a tap it would strip the thread
[03:14:29] <ssi> never mind you're right
[03:15:15] <Tom_itx> but that's why they call out a thread pitch for the cutter
[03:15:24] <ssi> yea
[03:15:30] <ssi> you could still do it with a single point cutter but it would be slower
[03:15:35] <Tom_itx> they probably have to thin it out for smaller pitch
[03:16:35] <toastyde2th> ya, single point cutters are slow but work just fine
[03:16:44] <toastyde2th> i don't like em because i'd rather just use a tap at that point
[03:16:57] <toastyde2th> form tapping at 1k rpm is pretty fast
[03:17:04] <Tom_itx> the only reason i would would be on a larger diameter
[03:17:05] <ssi> well I'd rather use a single point cutter than have to buy several goofy sizes of tap
[03:17:11] <toastyde2th> that's true
[03:17:21] <ssi> in order to do these ballnut mounts I need 15/16-16 and 1-1/4-18
[03:17:27] <toastyde2th> we didn't do a lot of stuff that was oddball sizes
[03:17:37] <ssi> so I'm going to singlepoint them on the lathe
[03:17:39] <toastyde2th> i could imagine them being super useful if i just wanted a particular pitch at an arbitrary size
[03:17:52] <ssi> I actually have that need a lot doing gun work
[03:18:07] <ssi> truing a receiver means taking a nominal size thread and making it oversized
[03:18:14] <ssi> and then cutting a barrel to that oversized spec
[03:19:00] <toastyde2th> yeah, you'd probably fall in love with threadmills then
[03:19:06] <ssi> well it's mostly lathe work
[03:19:21] <ssi> also all needs to be concentric and square to a tenth
[03:20:28] <toastyde2th> that's kind of an exciting requirement
[03:20:32] <ssi> yea
[03:20:35] <ssi> gets set up like so:
[03:20:35] <ssi> https://fbcdn-sphotos-g-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-frc1/303191_725209428042_2131740446_n.jpg
[03:20:46] <ssi> the fixture is a big piece of pipe, and has bolt spiders on both ends
[03:20:54] <ssi> the receiver sits in there, and there are precision bushings in the bolt raceway
[03:21:01] <ssi> and then that piece of thompson shaft through the bushings
[03:21:08] <ssi> then you dial in the rod so it's running true on both ends
[03:21:18] <ssi> that gets it parallel to the spindle and concentric to a tenth
[03:22:26] <ssi> then the face is cut square and the internal thread is recut oversize, and the inside lugs are cut square
[03:22:36] <ssi> then, the barrel gets a tenon turned and threaded to that oversized thread
[03:22:40] <ssi> and then it's test fit thusly:
[03:22:40] <ssi> https://fbcdn-sphotos-d-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/399878_775108450002_1069079313_n.jpg
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[03:23:31] <ssi> then a chamber cut
[03:23:33] <toastyde2th> wow
[03:23:42] <toastyde2th> tbh i've never tried to line up something on a 4 jaw to a tenth
[03:23:48] <ssi> and then eventually you thread the muzzle and mill a stock inlet and then throw a suppressor mount on it
[03:23:52] <ssi> https://fbcdn-sphotos-g-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/422975_783007844552_1937769465_n.jpg
[03:23:56] <ssi> and then your friends start to get jealous
[03:23:58] <ssi> that's the fun part
[03:24:41] <Valen> what caliber?
[03:24:46] <ssi> 30-06
[03:26:12] <ssi> toastyde2th: 4jaw is the only way to fly if you are trying to cut something with existing features
[03:26:17] <ssi> if you care about any level of precision that is
[03:26:54] <ssi> it's not that bad... just dial it in on a +/-30 0.001 indicator, then put a tenths dial on it
[03:27:26] <Valen> whats a tenth in mm?
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[03:27:43] <Tom_itx> Valen, hair on a gnat's arse
[03:27:55] <toastyde2th> ssi, yeah, i agree
[03:27:59] <Valen> still sounds like an imperial measurement to me Tom_itx ;->
[03:28:10] <ssi> Valen: 2.5um I think?
[03:28:19] <Valen> pretty teensy
[03:28:21] <toastyde2th> also, for very very high precision work I usually use soft jaws on a 3 jaw chuck and a clocking mark
[03:28:35] <toastyde2th> if it's concentric
[03:28:39] <ssi> 0.00254mm
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[03:28:42] <ssi> that's 2.5um, ye?
[03:28:56] <ssi> metric system is so complicated ;)
[03:28:58] <Valen> I always just use decimal points
[03:29:10] <ssi> it's a tenth of whatever a mil is in mm
[03:29:11] <ssi> heheh
[03:29:20] <Valen> the prefixes allow too much confusion in "mixed company" ;->
[03:29:29] <Valen> also I suck at remembering them lol
[03:29:42] <ssi> and I think 1um is 1 micron
[03:29:49] <ssi> and micron is an awesome name
[03:29:55] <ssi> like some sort of tiny superhero
[03:30:50] <Valen> lol!
[03:31:10] <Valen> 1 micron = 0.001 millimetres
[03:31:15] <ssi> yea
[03:31:18] <ssi> 1um :D
[03:31:32] <Valen> A micrometre or micrometer (pron.: /ˈmaɪkroʊmiːtər/, symbol µm)
[03:31:35] <Valen> yup
[03:31:48] <Valen> The term micron and the symbol µ, representing the micrometre, were officially accepted between 1879 and 1967, but officially revoked by the ISI in 1967
[03:31:56] <ssi> lol
[03:32:12] <ssi> so what, only m and mm are acceptable units now?
[03:32:20] <ssi> and km I guess
[03:32:41] <ssi> silly metric
[03:32:50] <Valen> micrometer is acceptable
[03:32:53] <Valen> micron isnt
[03:33:27] <generic_nick|3> yards
[03:33:44] <ssi> the distance to the sun is 1.496e17 um
[03:33:47] <ssi> suck it ISI
[03:34:01] <Valen> and i bet your car gets 2 hogheads to the furlong
[03:34:20] <ssi> shit I wish
[03:34:41] <generic_nick|3> i wish. more like 1/4 a hampster nad
[03:35:10] <Valen> our mill has 1um glass scales on it does that count?
[03:35:11] <ssi> hang on I want to work this out now
[03:35:17] <Valen> heh
[03:35:20] <ssi> Valen: that's nice actually
[03:35:23] <Valen> 3–4 µm — size of a typical yeast cell
[03:35:26] <ssi> my mill has 0.0002" scales
[03:35:30] <ssi> which'd be about 5um
[03:35:38] <Valen> thats the next "grade" up
[03:35:43] <ssi> yea
[03:35:45] <Valen> I use them to close the servo loop
[03:35:46] <ssi> mine are fairly cheap
[03:35:51] <ssi> but for manual mill DRO, it's FINE
[03:36:07] <Valen> I wish i had put encoders on the motors for velocity feedback
[03:36:17] <generic_nick|3> there's a dro on part of a scrapped mill at the metal recyclers.
[03:36:25] <ssi> the velocity component on your encoder counters in hal not good enough?
[03:36:30] <generic_nick|3> im trying to see what they want for it. it's a newer one too
[03:36:42] <Valen> too much mechanical noise between the motor and the sensor I think
[03:36:45] <ssi> ah
[03:37:06] <ssi> you need the velocity feedback at the drive or just in hal?
[03:37:12] <Valen> hal
[03:37:18] <Valen> I'm using mesa drives
[03:37:19] <ssi> what are your motors?
[03:37:26] <Valen> 500W scooter motors ;->
[03:37:29] <ssi> lolol
[03:37:36] <Valen> ey they work
[03:37:42] <Valen> and the right price
[03:37:46] <ssi> did you see my nema23 stepper encoder mounts?
[03:38:01] <Valen> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frIssODebKA&list=PL04F6B774F23F6873
[03:38:02] <Tecan> (frIssODebKA) "3600mm/minute 9600RPM 4 flute 6mm cutter" by "zyeborm" is "Tech" - Length: 0:00:24
[03:38:02] <ssi> https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BJxJMQICEAAO_GV.jpg:large
[03:38:20] <Valen> 3d printed?
[03:38:27] <ssi> yep
[03:38:43] <Valen> ewwwy ewwey ;->
[03:38:56] <generic_nick|3> i ordered 3 of these to make my spindle disk encoder on my mill. http://www.mouser.com/Search/ProductDetail.aspx?R=OPB912W55Zvirtualkey54210000virtualkey828-OPB912W55Z
[03:38:58] <ssi> sure, be derisive
[03:39:01] <ssi> it works, and it was cheap :)
[03:39:22] <ssi> generic_nick|3: looks like the same ones I used on my little lathe
[03:39:24] <pcw_home> nice HS tapping/thread milling video
[03:39:26] <pcw_home> http://www.emuge.com/videos/1018_thread_making_demo.html
[03:39:36] <Valen> I was thinking of putting a print head on our mill
[03:39:39] <generic_nick|3> nice ssi, how did they work?
[03:39:53] <ssi> great:
[03:39:53] <ssi> https://fbcdn-sphotos-c-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-frc1/205204_655375525742_5631970_n.jpg
[03:39:58] <Valen> that is one holy chunk of metal
[03:40:07] <ssi> I needed schmitt triggers on them though
[03:40:18] <Valen> I'm trying to work out how to do servo drive on our new mill, it all just keeps winding up too expensive
[03:40:34] <generic_nick|3> they arent ttl ssi?
[03:40:44] <ssi> they're slow
[03:40:48] <ssi> I had poor rise times
[03:40:55] <generic_nick|3> really
[03:40:59] <Valen> weak perhaps?
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[03:41:33] <ssi> so here's the before:
[03:41:34] <ssi> https://fbcdn-sphotos-h-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/p206x206/221664_655377352082_5844353_n.jpg
[03:41:40] <ssi> and after:
[03:41:40] <ssi> https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-snc6/207897_655377411962_259243_n.jpg
[03:41:51] <generic_nick|3> they say 70ns. that's pretty fast
[03:42:59] <ssi> you may have better luck than I did
[03:43:09] <generic_nick|3> they have ones that look the same but need pullup resistors, sure it wasnt one of those?
[03:43:12] <Valen> i think my scope is the last one they made before they went digital
[03:43:15] <ssi> maybe
[03:43:24] <Valen> well for their main line anyway
[03:43:32] <generic_nick|3> ssi: i hope so, im not good with fixing that kinda crap lol
[03:43:33] <Valen> still its really rather better than my last one
[03:43:36] <Valen> tube based
[03:44:03] <generic_nick|3> ssi: what did you use for the index? a hole inboard of the notches or something?
[03:44:08] <ssi> a deeper notch
[03:44:13] <ssi> you can see it in the pic with the disk
[03:44:36] <generic_nick|3> you just moved the index sensor in a little so it didnt trigger on the a/b notches?
[03:44:38] <Valen> I was thinking of using those magnetic encoders
[03:44:39] <ssi> yep
[03:44:46] <generic_nick|3> gotcha
[03:45:18] <generic_nick|3> thats what i had planned, but wasnt sure if there was enough throat on the sensor
[03:45:25] <ssi> yea there is
[03:45:29] <generic_nick|3> cool
[03:45:33] <ssi> I used the same sensors for limits on that machine
[03:45:45] <ssi> they're not as repeatable as I'd like
[03:45:52] <ssi> for homes that is
[03:46:01] <generic_nick|3> for the price, its hard to beat
[03:46:03] <ssi> yea
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[03:46:34] <generic_nick|3> what's your spindle rpm?
[03:46:47] <ssi> I don't tend to run much over 3k
[03:47:02] <ssi> I can run it up to 6k I think
[03:47:03] <generic_nick|3> my spindle revs 6k
[03:47:03] <ssi> but I don't like to
[03:47:13] <generic_nick|3> hoping it doesnt loose count
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[03:47:27] <ssi> oh I have no problem with counting it at 6k
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[03:47:33] <ssi> I just don't like spinning big heavy lathe chucks that fast :)
[03:47:34] <generic_nick|3> i only need it for rigid tapping, which will be at a low rpm anyways
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[03:47:46] <generic_nick|3> gotcha
[03:48:06] <ssi> and the bearings in the headstock aren't great and they get hot
[03:48:36] <generic_nick|3> yea i dont even run my hardinge over 700
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[03:49:03] <generic_nick|3> wait is that on your hnc?
[03:49:08] <ssi> no on my g0602
[03:49:11] <generic_nick|3> ah
[03:49:12] <ssi> hnc has a factory encder
[03:49:15] <ssi> you know that :P
[03:49:17] <ssi> resolver rather
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[03:49:28] <generic_nick|3> mine was a resolver but i swapped it for an encoder
[03:50:12] <generic_nick|3> i was thinking of changing the pulley ratio to get some more velocity out of my servos on the hnc
[03:50:28] <ssi> I'm not unhappy with the speed of the HNC
[03:50:33] <ssi> it's not the fastest in the world, but it's adequate
[03:50:36] <ssi> and it's PRECISE
[03:50:49] <generic_nick|3> im getting 200ipm again (thanks to you)
[03:50:52] <ssi> :D
[03:51:03] <ssi> that's plenty fast enough for that little machine
[03:51:08] <ssi> it's only got a couple inches of travel in each direction
[03:51:16] <generic_nick|3> ill be doing heavy production on it soon
[03:51:24] <ssi> making what?
[03:51:24] <generic_nick|3> every second counts
[03:51:38] <generic_nick|3> skateboard trucks... titanium spindles for them
[03:51:40] <ssi> aha
[03:51:46] <ssi> I've never machined titanium
[03:51:58] <Tom_itx> lower rpm and constant feed
[03:52:04] <Tom_itx> or it will work harden
[03:52:08] <generic_nick|3> http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8395/8704736685_63028c81dd_c.jpg
[03:52:21] <ssi> very cool
[03:52:24] <ssi> you make the bodies of them too?
[03:52:28] <generic_nick|3> 6-4 ti cuts great
[03:52:29] <generic_nick|3> yes
[03:52:34] <ssi> excellent :)
[03:52:34] <generic_nick|3> thanks
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[03:52:45] <generic_nick|3> emc2 at work :)
[03:52:47] <ssi> yeah
[03:52:55] <ssi> I have one production job I do on my hnc
[03:53:00] <Tom_itx> generic_nick|3, what sort of feed/speed are you running on it?
[03:53:01] <ssi> and my customer has been waiting on parts for awhile
[03:53:05] <ssi> and my machine is down :(
[03:53:07] <Tom_itx> vs cutter diameter...
[03:53:45] <generic_nick|3> Tom_itx: i run about 230sfm, .013" per rev for roughing
[03:54:01] <generic_nick|3> conservative
[03:54:08] <Tom_itx> what rpm?
[03:54:17] <generic_nick|3> on these parts ill push the limit a little more
[03:54:43] <generic_nick|3> i dunno, i run g96 s230
[03:54:48] <generic_nick|3> depends on diameter
[03:55:12] <Tom_itx> lathe?
[03:55:15] <generic_nick|3> yes
[03:55:28] <Tom_itx> oh i thought you were milling the whole thing
[03:55:50] <generic_nick|3> i thought you asked about the ti spindles
[03:55:58] <Tom_itx> i was
[03:56:05] <Tom_itx> i thought the whole thing was
[03:56:05] <generic_nick|3> the hanger and base are aluminum
[03:56:06] <Tom_itx> ti
[03:56:09] <Tom_itx> ok
[03:56:14] <generic_nick|3> only the hardware is ti
[03:56:36] <ssi> hm so if I make XL belt reductions, I'll have to od grind the ballscrew end down to 1/4" (which I think I need to do anyway
[03:56:46] <ssi> and then I can run a 14 to 48 reduction cheap enough
[03:56:51] <ssi> or 14 to 60
[03:57:00] <ssi> 14:48 is 1:3.43
[03:57:12] <generic_nick|3> the hanger and base take about 10-12 minutes total, i havent made the fixtures or dialed in the program yet so that time is based on prototyping
[03:57:16] <ssi> that'd make my max screw speed 1550rpm
[03:57:25] <ssi> max travel speed 310ipm
[03:57:27] <ssi> that sounds pretty sane
[03:57:36] <generic_nick|3> ssi: on what?
[03:57:39] <ssi> g0704
[03:57:46] <ssi> 5/8" ballscrews
[03:57:48] <generic_nick|3> gotcha
[03:58:00] <ssi> I was looking at what direct coupling these servos would mean
[03:58:04] <ssi> they're 5300rpm servos at 60v
[03:58:09] <ssi> that's too damn fast for screws
[03:58:24] <generic_nick|3> yea thats fast
[03:58:27] <ssi> or maybe I Take the easy way out and buy a nema23 slow servo from keling
[03:58:43] <ssi> except theirs don't come with encoders
[03:59:01] <ssi> oh and they're still fairly fast
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[03:59:59] <generic_nick|3> does the plasma cause any electrical noise that may interfere with the cnc portion?
[04:00:10] <ssi> I haven't had any problems with it
[04:00:31] <generic_nick|3> i know if i use the plasma near my desktop in the garage, my usb devices need to be unplugged and plugged back in
[04:00:39] <ssi> that's annoying
[04:00:42] <generic_nick|3> yea
[04:01:11] <generic_nick|3> hmmm wonder if the garage floor is dry enough to lay a coat of paint on it tonight
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[04:01:35] <generic_nick|3> i want it to dry for 12-15 hours before i move stuff onto it
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[04:36:39] <PetefromTn> ...
[04:38:06] <PetefromTn> This thing on? First time chatting on my Android phone.
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[04:42:20] <generic_nick|3> wow that paint soaked in. gunna need a couple coats or so
[04:42:23] <PetefromTn> Hello?
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[04:44:09] <generic_nick|3> hello
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[04:44:49] <PetefromTn> I say I say can ya hear me my good man?
[04:44:49] <generic_nick|3> is it me you're looking for?
[04:45:05] <generic_nick|3> cause i wonder where you are
[04:45:16] <generic_nick|3> and i wonder what you do
[04:45:41] <generic_nick|3> are you somewhere feeling lonely, or is there someone loving you?
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[04:45:57] <PetefromTn> Smartass...
[04:46:05] <generic_nick|3> ha
[04:46:45] <PetefromTn> Trying to get linuxcnc chat on my darn android phone here working and you're singin songs
[04:46:54] <generic_nick|3> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PDZcqBgCS74
[04:46:55] <Tecan> (PDZcqBgCS74) "Lionel Richie - Hello" by "jasoneric" is "Music" - Length: 0:05:28
[04:47:03] <generic_nick|3> seems to work
[04:47:30] <PetefromTn> .finally been trying all nite
[04:47:43] <PetefromTn> So
[04:47:57] <generic_nick|3> so
[04:47:57] <PetefromTn> .....er whatzgoinon?
[04:48:07] <generic_nick|3> nothin much, watching paint dry
[04:48:19] <generic_nick|3> just put the first coat on the garage floor
[04:48:29] <PetefromTn> Jeez that's great...
[04:48:56] <generic_nick|3> the old coating was shot.... i rented a floor sander and sanded it off
[04:49:04] <PetefromTn> Is it a garage or a shop?
[04:49:12] <generic_nick|3> garage
[04:49:22] <generic_nick|3> and my shop
[04:49:35] <generic_nick|3> till i move, then its back to just a garage
[04:49:56] <PetefromTn> Oh I'm so terribly sorry ....
[04:49:57] <generic_nick|3> move my shop that is
[04:50:20] <generic_nick|3> you should be!
[04:50:35] <generic_nick|3> i wish we had basements here like i did back east
[04:50:37] <PetefromTn> Oh I am man....
[04:51:24] <PetefromTn> Can't shove a VMC down the basement stairs....
[04:51:53] <generic_nick|3> every house i lived in had level ground enterance
[04:52:24] <PetefromTn> Sweet...high ceiling?
[04:52:32] <generic_nick|3> one even had the garage in part of the basement, so you could take out a wall and extend it
[04:52:48] <generic_nick|3> eh, probably not high enough
[04:53:08] <generic_nick|3> thats my problem with my shop, the door is only 7' high
[04:53:11] <PetefromTn> Hell cut a hole.....
[04:53:20] <generic_nick|3> lol noooo
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[04:53:48] <generic_nick|3> i think once i get my shop ill probably try and sell this house and move to a place with more land
[04:54:01] <generic_nick|3> so i can put up a steel buildin g
[04:54:13] <PetefromTn> I cut the overhead out of my garage door to get this monster in here.
[04:54:33] <generic_nick|3> how tall is it?
[04:54:45] <PetefromTn> What?
[04:54:50] <generic_nick|3> the mill
[04:55:05] <PetefromTn> Just a Tad over 8....
[04:55:37] <PetefromTn> Till the millhead goes up anyway ....
[04:56:05] <PetefromTn> My shop has 9' plus ceilings
[04:56:09] <generic_nick|3> anything you can take off the top to clear the door?
[04:56:51] <generic_nick|3> i pulled my head apart to get it under the garage door
[04:57:16] <PetefromTn> Well the millhead can be lowered down and you can unhook the cable chain but the electronics cabinet is pretty tall.
[04:58:11] <PetefromTn> The machine sitting on the base with real short skates MIGHT fit under a garage door.
[04:59:26] <PetefromTn> Mine are 9x7 tho and the driveway kinda tapers so I just cutout the overhead and made a removable panel.
[04:59:56] <generic_nick|3> hmm
[05:01:05] <generic_nick|3> ugh, time for bed. gotta get up early. goodnight
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[05:01:26] <PetefromTn> GNITE!
[05:02:05] <ssi> so early!
[05:02:19] <ssi> I just got done milling the column on my g0704
[05:02:26] <ssi> so I can run the ballscrew through the back
[05:02:45] <ssi> I had a bearing block already built that went on the front side, but I made it fit up inside the column casting
[05:02:54] <ssi> so just the stub of the screw will stick out the back
[05:03:00] <PetefromTn> DJA make a big hole....
[05:03:12] <ssi> then I'll plasma cut a plate out of 1/8" steel that'll screw to the column and have a slotted motor mount
[05:03:15] <ssi> yea 1"
[05:03:32] <ssi> I love milling cast iron
[05:03:35] <ssi> it's so easy to work
[05:03:37] <PetefromTn> Sweet
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[05:03:51] <PetefromTn> Nasty tho...
[05:04:54] <ssi> turns my hands black :P
[05:05:14] <PetefromTn> Yup been there lol
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[05:06:06] <PetefromTn> Took me forever to get the chat to work on my phone tonight
[05:06:49] <PetefromTn> Im tired now going ta bed. Chat tomorrow with you guys.
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[06:17:29] <mazafaka> What brands are good from which to buy a portal mill, with 2000x800x600 mm of travel? German ones could be pricey, let's talk about less pricey, maybe other European?
[06:18:57] <mazafaka> and hello. :) Bought a full-suspension bicycle to kid and have touch him to ride it on two wheels. Changed wheel tyres to 2.6'' wide ones, as `a mean of tuning'.
[06:19:18] <mazafaka> we'll go ride it again
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[06:35:25] <ssi> hrm
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[06:59:34] <DJ9DJ> moin
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[07:16:42] <gammax-Laptop1> what is the difference between random and non random tool changers?
[07:17:11] <gammax-Laptop1> Im looking at the master cam posts and they have 2 for each of those options.
[07:17:34] <ssi> probably has to do with whether the tools are constrained to one pocket or not
[07:17:47] <ssi> like my HNC has tools that are bolted to their position, so tool 1 is always pocket 1
[07:18:11] <ssi> but mills tend to have toolchangers that'll swap the current tool with the tool in a given pocket
[07:18:33] <ssi> so it has to keep track of what pocket each tool is in, and it'll preselect the pocket for the next upcoming toolchange, then on the toolchange it will swap them
[07:18:45] <ssi> and it has to update the table so it knows that the tool it just swapped out is now in that pocket
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[07:42:23] <toastydeath> random tool changers are an order of magnetude faster than non-random
[07:42:33] <toastydeath> (sort of the practical difference)
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[07:53:10] <gammax-Laptop1> ok, secondly which fly cutter should I buy. many sizes...
[07:53:17] <gammax-Laptop1> not sure which bit size is best for price
[08:00:11] <toastydeath> you mean what shank size for the tool or what
[08:05:03] <gammax-Laptop1> what bit size
[08:06:41] <toastydeath> any size at all works just fine on most flycutters up to 4" diameter
[08:07:31] <toastydeath> it also matters what you plan on doing, if you are just skimcutting, you can use whatever you want
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[08:07:43] <toastydeath> if you plan on taking .250" per pass, get the biggest bit you can.
[08:07:51] <gammax-Laptop1> ok thanks!
[08:08:51] <gammax-Laptop1> toastydeath, was thinking this. http://www.ebay.com/itm/FLY-CUTTER-SET-CUTTERS-3-4-SHANK-METAL-BRIDGEPORT-/270348981272?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3ef20e1418
[08:09:36] <toastydeath> 3/8" is a small tool
[08:09:44] <toastydeath> i would only use 3/8" toolbits in the very smallest flycutter
[08:10:02] <toastydeath> if you are only skimcutting, it will work just fine in all of them
[08:10:29] <gammax-Laptop1> what size you use for a bit deeper cut
[08:10:38] <toastydeath> 1/2" or 3/4"
[08:10:52] <toastydeath> also depends on how much overhang the tool has
[08:10:56] <gammax-Laptop1> needd to find cheap fly cutter to hold that@ lol
[08:11:05] <toastydeath> if you snug the tool up and don't let it hang out
[08:11:08] <toastydeath> it won't be so bad
[08:11:20] <toastydeath> but if you have to let the tool overhang the edge of the holder a lot, it'll cause problems
[08:11:50] <toastydeath> for reference, the biggest holder there is 2 1/2"
[08:12:00] <toastydeath> that's not much diameter before you start having to pull the toolholder out
[08:12:28] <gammax-Laptop1> ok
[08:12:37] <gammax-Laptop1> can u recomend one online for me?
[08:12:47] <gammax-Laptop1> cheaoer the better :)
[08:13:47] <toastydeath> sorry, i am not super familiar with where to buy cheap stuff
[08:13:49] <toastydeath> =(
[08:14:30] <gammax-Laptop1> ahhh ojk. thanks
[08:14:32] <gammax-Laptop1> im goin to bed
[08:14:36] <gammax-Laptop1> too late for mez!
[08:14:40] <gammax-Laptop1> gnight man
[08:14:46] <toastydeath> goodnight
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[08:27:03] <mrsun_> "California Lawmaker Wants 3-D Printers To Be Regulated" heh one idiot makes something stupid and america is all like "omg omg omg" :P ... makes one gun ... then in the stores they sell them by the dussin :P
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[11:10:50] <L84Supper> popular opinion has replaced facts in the US for the past several years. Conform and consume.
[11:11:32] <L84Supper> mrsun_: did you see the comments about banning hobby CNC now as well?
[11:11:44] <ReadError_> im waiting on the 1st test video of somone that printed a liberator
[11:11:51] <ReadError_> someone*
[11:12:00] <ReadError_> thing sounds dangerous
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[11:12:52] <skroon> hi
[11:13:45] <skroon> I've got a Roland iModela CNC, I can sent it Gcode directly to it's device file... I read on the linuxcnc website that USB however isn't supported, are there perhaps alternatives for me, or is parallel really just the only option here?
[11:14:27] <jthornton> if you mean your just copying a file over usb that is ok
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[11:19:10] <skroon> jthornton: yes indeed
[11:19:56] <skroon> jthornton: but I was reading the manuals first, and notice the parallel port pin settings
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[11:20:33] <L84Supper> why do people only think of glorified glue guns when 3D printers come up? They can hardly print anything worthwhile and is like thinking that a screwdriver represents all hand tools
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[11:23:25] <L84Supper> can you 3D print a reliable automatic weapon? Sure. It's been possible for over 20 years. People don't since you can machine one far more cheaply.
[11:23:57] <L84Supper> maybe they will once the printers and materials are lower cost
[11:26:37] <L84Supper> it's a good thing that most of the patents are expiring or there would be virtually no progress in additive manufacturing for another 20 years
[11:28:26] <skroon> jthornton: I just did: cat test.ngc > /dev/usb/lp0
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[11:34:46] <jthornton> skroon, I assumed you were just copying a file using the file manager or something like that
[11:35:22] <skroon> jthornton: not sure what you mean?
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[11:35:49] <skroon> jthornton: I have a file with gcodes called test.ngc, and I cat the content of this file directly to the usb port /dev/usb/lp0 is my cnc machine
[11:37:16] <jthornton> I don't know what you mean
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[11:38:24] <skroon> jthornton: /dev/usb/lp0 is the port for my CNC machine
[11:38:48] <skroon> jthornton: that's what the driver creates for me, like a COMM port kind of thing
[11:39:11] <jthornton> that is beyond my guesspertice level sorry
[11:39:11] <skroon> jthornton: I send the content of my test.ngc file (I manually created this test.ngc file, giving it some gcodes)
[11:39:23] <skroon> jthornton: "guesspertice" ?
[11:39:51] <jthornton> I don't have a clue what your talking about
[11:40:05] <skroon> never heard of that word :-) what does it mean?
[11:40:22] <jthornton> I'm out of guesses
[11:40:44] <skroon> you know how linux device drivers work in general?
[11:41:07] <jthornton> not a clue
[11:41:23] <skroon> ok hehehe, then it gets kinda hard ;-)
[11:41:58] <jthornton> like I said before I thought you were just copying a file from one place to another like the file manager
[11:42:12] <skroon> well basically I am :-)
[11:42:17] <skroon> i'm sending it from my computer to the cnc
[11:43:15] <skroon> are there any known to be working CNC devices that use USB connection with linuxcnc?
[11:45:04] <jthornton> no
[11:45:27] <jthornton> well yes, game pads work
[11:45:37] <jthornton> as an input device
[11:46:52] <skroon> right, so output device (e.g. CNC machines) only work over parallel port
[11:47:24] <jthornton> or PCI motion control cards like Mesa and Pico
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[11:47:35] <skroon> is there a specific reason for this? I read something about USB not supporting realtime interactivity or something?
[11:47:51] <skroon> what are does PCI motion control cards? what do they do?
[11:47:53] <jthornton> aye
[11:48:46] <jthornton> they provide hardware step generation and encoder input at a much higher rate than a parallel port can
[11:49:01] <jthornton> and give you a ton more I/O lines usually
[11:49:22] <jthornton> is this a stepper or servo machine?
[11:49:35] <skroon> aren't all newer CNC machnes moving away from parallel communication?
[11:49:44] <skroon> jthornton: http://www.rolanddga.com/products/milling/imodela/
[11:50:21] <jthornton> stepper or servo?
[11:51:59] <skroon> jthornton: good question
[11:52:11] <skroon> jthornton: guesspertice
[11:52:15] <skroon> :-)
[11:52:52] <skroon> trying to look it up right now
[11:52:58] <skroon> what's the difference between stepper and servo?
[11:53:08] <skroon> I thought they we're the same
[11:53:17] <skroon> or can a servo just be a dc motor?
[11:54:11] <jthornton> well to change anything on your machine you have to know the basic information about what you have
[11:54:29] <jthornton> it is a cute little thing
[11:59:05] <skroon> jthornton: is another option also a "spindle motor" ? or are both stepper or servo able to serve as the spindle motor?
[11:59:28] <skroon> e.g. spindle motor just being the motor responsible for the drilling ?
[11:59:56] <jthornton> sure
[12:01:30] <skroon> ... :-)
[12:01:31] <skroon> sure what?
[12:02:04] <jthornton> sure yes aye
[12:02:34] <skroon> it's a servo motor
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[12:10:18] <skroon> jthornton: aren't you the one writing the manual for linuxcnc project?
[12:10:42] <jthornton> yes I work on the manual
[12:13:45] <skroon> jthornton: good work
[12:14:00] <skroon> it's work that not many people seem to like doing, but always *extremely* important for a project
[12:14:08] <jthornton> thanks
[12:17:42] <skroon> you use cnc machines for your day job as well?
[12:18:14] <jthornton> yes, I own a CNC machine shop and design and build automation equipment for a living
[12:20:10] <Loetmichel> skroon: i read something lately: "docuimentation is like sex: if its good it is VERY good. if its bad its still better than nothing" ;-)
[12:20:42] <jthornton> lol
[12:20:47] <skroon> Loetmichel: hahaha awesome! :-)
[12:20:58] <skroon> Loetmichel: true :-)
[12:22:22] <skroon> jthornton: really cool, you have a website of your shop?
[12:28:11] <skroon> anyone here using a gerber to gcode converter?
[12:31:53] <JT-Shop-2> yep gnipsel dot com
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[12:36:48] <mazafaka> What do you think of HAAS?
[12:37:17] <r00t4rd3d> too expensive
[12:37:29] <skroon> is there a still need to really understand Gcode in general?
[12:38:14] <r00t4rd3d> matters what you are doing
[12:38:36] <r00t4rd3d> diy redneck, not really.
[12:38:49] <r00t4rd3d> medical equipment, probably.
[12:39:36] <skroon> medical equipment also driven by gcodes?
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[12:40:04] <r00t4rd3d> no i meant if you were machining med equip
[12:40:19] <mazafaka> r00t4rd3d: yeah? What portal mill for 2 meters long table can you recommend? You probably learn the market, I don't...
[12:40:19] <mazafaka> r00t4rd3d: hard steel milling, 2.5D and rigidity rather needed
[12:40:31] <skroon> r00t4rd3d: ah right, :_)
[12:40:57] <skroon> r00t4rd3d: i'm really intresttined in using CNC for making PCB's at the moment
[12:41:04] <r00t4rd3d> mazafaka, cnc router parts kit
[12:41:11] <mazafaka> skroon: you sometimes need to change something in G-code, but you can use manual, it is never a haste. Although coordinates for arcs (G2, G3) need some understandin.
[12:41:31] <r00t4rd3d> i couldnt write one line of gcode
[12:41:38] <mazafaka> r00t4rd3d: no kits, it is not for me, it is for a shop.
[12:42:01] <r00t4rd3d> still
[12:42:08] <mazafaka> r00t4rd3d: you're joking, you can write any G-code, like most people here
[12:42:17] <skroon> mazafaka: right, for example i'm seeing my router going all the way up, instead of just slightlying moving over the surfce, so I was wondering why it's going all the way up before going other x,y coord
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[12:43:14] <r00t4rd3d> i most certainly cant write gcode from scratch
[12:43:29] <mazafaka> skroon: for example, I still do not understand Homing Procedure which is in the LinuxCNC files. I had a time to learn it, but, but I didn't...
[12:44:59] <skroon> r00t4rd3d: which tools do you use to go from CAD to gcode?
[12:45:15] <r00t4rd3d> i only use aspire
[12:45:54] <mazafaka> skroon: HeeksCNC has some options which can make you trying and retrying something
[12:46:44] <r00t4rd3d> aspire is cad/cam in one
[12:46:53] <mazafaka> skroon: TopSolid and Unigraphics can be bought by plants (one or two workplaces) to virtually encompass whole designing routine
[12:47:21] <skroon> mazafaka: cool
[12:47:30] <mazafaka> skroon: And I currently do not know any freeware program for turning on lathe/
[12:48:06] <mazafaka> skroon: Mastercam and Rhinocerros are mean-priced CAM software
[12:48:11] <skroon> mazafaka: man that heeks looks really nice! :-)
[12:48:29] <mazafaka> skroon: in #cam you can ask Dave Heeks himself, he appears there.
[12:48:33] <skroon> mazafaka: seems to be able to do PCB stuff as well
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[12:49:07] <mazafaka> skroon: just learn how to arrange the items in the drawing for them to be milled in a proper order.
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[12:50:17] <r00t4rd3d> aspire makes it simple to arrange your tool paths
[12:50:23] <r00t4rd3d> 1 click
[12:50:27] <r00t4rd3d> up or down arrow
[12:50:54] <mazafaka> r00t4rd3d: is it freeware&
[12:50:59] <r00t4rd3d> no, cost 2k
[12:51:39] <mazafaka> r00t4rd3d: because this is a laptop from Acer?
[12:52:17] <r00t4rd3d> no.
[12:52:18] <r00t4rd3d> http://www.vectric.com/
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[13:37:00] <DJ9DJ> re
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[13:51:44] <IchGuckLive> hi all From a cold rainy germany
[13:52:04] <Tom_itx> hi you from a chilly sunny USA
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[14:05:39] <r00t4rd3d> i got to put a dock out in the lake today, 53F and 24mph wind :D
[14:07:14] <PetefromTn> Well surprise surprise, again I could not post to the CNC zone due to issues on their part..... lately it seems like there is ALWAYS an issue over there...
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[14:08:18] <IchGuckLive> PetefromTn: why cnc zone
[14:08:28] <PetefromTn> whaddyamean?
[14:08:59] <IchGuckLive> its a semipro forum for people how will sell the parts
[14:10:49] <PetefromTn> Well honestly I STARTED over there with my benchtop machine build and have lots of people I call friends on there. Many were helpful with both of my builds and while I have moved my build thread for the Cincinatti Arrow 500 over to the linuxCNC forum I wanted to keep that thread updated for them to be able to keep in touch.
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[14:11:30] <Tom_itx> apparently they don't wanna stay in touch that much
[14:11:31] <PetefromTn> I do need to start posting in a place where I can interface with folks who might be able to bring me some work so I can sell parts LOL
[14:11:42] <PetefromTn> LOL probably right....
[14:11:57] <PetefromTn> Maybe I am a legend in my own mind ROFL.
[14:12:16] <archivist> work...what is that?
[14:12:39] <IchGuckLive> PetefromTn: so you are the man that brings us to Hell LOL
[14:12:42] <PetefromTn> I really kinda like the IRC format which is more real time and the convo can go where it wants in a more manageable manner
[14:13:07] <PetefromTn> work you know that thing that pays the bills....I NEED SOME LOL
[14:13:27] <IchGuckLive> Tennesie is a farmland so go to the farm store and ask for replacepart of oldies
[14:13:29] <PetefromTn> rather a more timely manner..
[14:13:30] <Tom_itx> plug the drain and the tub will fill
[14:13:50] <Tom_itx> our govt needs to hear that
[14:13:52] <PetefromTn> already plugged it...I live rather meagerly....
[14:13:59] <archivist> PetefromTn, I know only too well....
[14:14:02] <IchGuckLive> PetefromTn: you got a plasma
[14:14:09] <PetefromTn> nope wish I did..
[14:14:40] <PetefromTn> Got a Commercial Tig, the VMC, fabrication tools grinders, bandsaws, etc...
[14:14:50] <IchGuckLive> Farmers love to pimp there farm with large steel size signes
[14:15:10] <IchGuckLive> School sportfields
[14:15:10] <PetefromTn> Don't have a CNC lathe yet....manual 12x36
[14:15:41] <IchGuckLive> PetefromTn: get involved its a moneymaker
[14:15:52] <PetefromTn> involved in what?
[14:15:59] <IchGuckLive> plasma signes
[14:16:10] <PetefromTn> Again NO PLASMA...
[14:16:17] <IchGuckLive> 40USD a steel sheet and 400USD selling
[14:16:46] <IchGuckLive> as US also love to BBq
[14:16:58] <IchGuckLive> fire places are up to date
[14:17:08] <PetefromTn> you let me know where you can buy US steel sheet for 40 USD and Ill go buy some LOL
[14:17:40] <IchGuckLive> i pay 25Eur for 1x2m 2mmthick
[14:17:43] <PetefromTn> my next door neighbor wants a trailerable BBQ but I don't have the equipment for making that stuff..
[14:18:10] <PetefromTn> not to make any real money anyways....
[14:18:37] <PetefromTn> really looking for CNC machine work using this damn machine I just build LOL and maybe my lathe...
[14:19:13] <IchGuckLive> in the USA also there is a market for engraving winner signes
[14:19:13] <PetefromTn> If I can get that going then maybe I could afford to build a nice plasma table...
[14:19:44] <PetefromTn> Yeah I do some engraving here and plan to with the new machine.
[14:19:46] <IchGuckLive> winner trophy
[14:20:28] <IchGuckLive> also the famos gunshop wil give you work
[14:20:30] <PetefromTn> what are you making right now IchGuckLive
[14:20:51] <IchGuckLive> in this our or at work
[14:21:13] <PetefromTn> making gun parts is supposed to be real good right now and I am trying to find something in that regard that is legal.
[14:21:21] <PetefromTn> either..
[14:21:29] <Tom_itx> PetefromTn what industries around you use cnc?
[14:21:31] <Tom_itx> contact them
[14:21:58] <IchGuckLive> i doo custom fire places for tomorows plasma action
[14:22:11] <Tom_itx> of course making gun parts is good right now... they're trying to change the laws on us
[14:22:25] <PetefromTn> well we do have Nippon Denso here and some other large manufacturer but you need to have an IN to get that work I hear...
[14:22:35] <PetefromTn> yeah I know...
[14:22:45] <IchGuckLive> also ask custom carmakers
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[14:22:51] <IchGuckLive> and bikemakers
[14:23:12] <IchGuckLive> shops like West cost custroms and Ammerican choppers
[14:23:17] <PetefromTn> actually the bikemakers is not a bad idea, we have a shop local or two...
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[14:23:43] <PetefromTn> I know my pal Joel at JH choppers makes some cool custom bike stuff....
[14:23:58] <IchGuckLive> the taig may not fit a 22" rim
[14:24:02] <PetefromTn> That kinda thing would be fun AND profitable I think.
[14:24:13] <PetefromTn> yeah but my Cincinatti will LOL...
[14:24:15] <Tom_itx> at one point i wanted a saltwater fishtank so i researched a bit and one thing i made was a protein skimmer. showed the fish dealer and wound up selling him a bunch of them
[14:24:23] <Tom_itx> enough to pay for that hobby for a while
[14:24:24] <IchGuckLive> but a aircooler logo is up to be done
[14:24:52] <Tom_itx> use what's around you to make money
[14:25:04] <PetefromTn> HMm Don't know jack about salt water fishtanks...sorry.
[14:25:06] <IchGuckLive> agees with tom
[14:25:11] <Tom_itx> i didn't either
[14:25:17] <Tom_itx> but i still made a better one
[14:25:24] <PetefromTn> You make them on the Sherline?
[14:25:27] <Tom_itx> acording to him anyway
[14:25:37] <Tom_itx> no most of it was lathe work
[14:26:08] <IchGuckLive> ok im ff to the last day of BBQ in town s brithday week
[14:26:19] <IchGuckLive> off B)
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[14:26:46] <PetefromTn> I do have a small paying job making some custom eccentric links for a fellow who works on BMW's. They are real simple tho and will be done here probably by monday.
[14:27:07] <Tom_itx> so make something else to dazzle him
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[14:27:50] <PetefromTn> Just as soon as I can think of something....!!
[14:27:50] <Tom_itx> marketing is 2/3 the job
[14:28:18] <PetefromTn> agreed..
[14:29:27] <PetefromTn> I gotta make some sorta High speed spindle so I can do some of the engraving I was doing with the RF45 and I have some ideas for that. Now that the machine is working I can start concentrating on that kinda stuff.
[14:29:52] <archivist> marketing....pictures of ones work on ones website
[14:30:09] -!- acf [acf!d53c91fd@gateway/web/freenode/ip.] has joined #linuxcnc
[14:30:20] <archivist> incoming links to website and google friendly
[14:30:44] <PetefromTn> YES EXACTLY... I don't have a website yet but I need to get one made up. I think my Pal Connor is the GURU with that kinda stuff...maybe we can work a deal somehow..
[14:31:21] <PetefromTn> I am on Google plus but not as a business yet.
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[14:31:28] <archivist> buuut having a website gets me very little machining work!!!!
[14:31:39] <archivist> grumble
[14:31:51] <PetefromTn> do you do machine work for a living?
[14:32:04] <acf> aa
[14:32:11] <PetefromTn> bb
[14:32:20] <acf> anybody talking spanish?
[14:32:38] <PetefromTn> un poquito?
[14:32:41] <r00t4rd3d> no
[14:32:45] <r00t4rd3d> engrish
[14:33:11] <PetefromTn> are there translators for IRC?
[14:33:54] <archivist> a living... currently not making enough to live from machining
[14:34:08] <PetefromTn> yeah I know the feeling...
[14:34:28] <acf> do you know any easy-to-use freeware 3Dcad modeler?
[14:34:59] <PetefromTn> I get the occasional good project in here but if it were not for my wife's nursing job and her benefits I would be screwed in the slow times
[14:35:08] <PetefromTn> Heekscad?
[14:35:18] <PetefromTn> Altho I don't use it...
[14:35:39] <PetefromTn> also there is a google one forget what its called..
[14:35:41] <archivist> so I do anything, websites, taxi, fabrication archives
[14:36:06] <PetefromTn> what the hell is a fabrication archive?
[14:36:19] <archivist> missed a comma
[14:36:37] <PetefromTn> I also do some high end custom millwork and cabinetry from my shop when I find the work...
[14:36:51] <Loetmichel> so, now i can measure in your units, usa... my wife just got back from philadelphia and brought me a present: http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=14238
[14:36:52] <Loetmichel> :-)
[14:37:03] <archivist> this sort of fab http://www.collection.archivist.info/archive/DJCPD/PD/2013/2013_04_18_glass_trolley/IMG_1531_600.JPG
[14:37:16] <Loetmichel> ... jut thinking over the the brass slide... whats THAT for?
[14:37:17] <andypugh> acf: FreeCAD? http://sourceforge.net/projects/free-cad/
[14:37:53] <acf> i just tried freecad and i don't like it.
[14:38:00] <PetefromTn> I do fabrication work like that too... not much lately but...
[14:38:04] <andypugh> Loetmichel: Depth gauge?
[14:38:17] <PetefromTn> I had made a bunch of custom built home brewing stands...
[14:38:20] <Loetmichel> possible ;-)
[14:38:28] <acf> I'll try heekscad... thnks for the info
[14:38:29] <andypugh> acf: Do you want "free" or "Free"?
[14:39:24] <PetefromTn> We were discussing the deskproto yesterday and while it is not free it is pretty cheap for the entry level and it looks quite powerful.
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[14:41:41] <andypugh> I just camde back from a weekend away, to find I had left the IRC open, and there was a bouncing alert. But it's scrolled away. I wonder who it was, and what they wanted?
[14:42:20] <r00t4rd3d> we were just talking shit about you
[14:43:23] <Loetmichel> PetefromTn: i have deskproto here. good thing: cheap and a 30 days evaluation full version aviable.
[14:43:37] * r00t4rd3d laughs as andy scrolls through the logs
[14:43:42] <Loetmichel> bad: strategies are a bit dumb.
[14:44:04] <PetefromTn> how so?
[14:44:40] <Loetmichel> PetefromTn: usses LOTS of linear moves instead of g02 or g03
[14:45:05] <Loetmichel> resilts in VERY big files and isnt the best in minimizing movement either
[14:45:15] <Loetmichel> results
[14:45:21] <Loetmichel> but one can work with it
[14:46:06] <PetefromTn> Honestly with linuxCNC the file size is not as much a concern as it was before with DNC but TIME is...
[14:47:20] <mrsun_> L84Supper, nop
[14:48:49] <PetefromTn> Loetmichel: it is also quite reasonably priced for what you get especially with the rotary axis modules...
[14:49:13] <PetefromTn> cut3d seems pretty decent too but I have yet to look that seriously at either of them.
[14:49:49] <andypugh> DeskProto website looks like it escaped from Geocities.
[14:49:55] <Loetmichel> PetefromTn: this file was about 35 mb of gcode: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cEG7-6zwpt4
[14:49:56] <Loetmichel> wirth roughing and 2 times finishing 90° crossed
[14:49:56] <Tecan> (cEG7-6zwpt4) "aussentank" by "Loetmichel" is "Animals" - Length: 0:01:27
[14:49:58] <Loetmichel> it is!
[14:51:08] <Loetmichel> (cheap)
[14:51:34] <PetefromTn> nice man but why is that machine so slow?
[14:52:31] <Loetmichel> not enough balls from my side
[14:52:57] <Loetmichel> it CAn do different: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0-AYccsFpOs
[14:52:58] <Tecan> (0-AYccsFpOs) "randbogen" by "Loetmichel" is "People" - Length: 0:00:31
[14:53:06] <Loetmichel> thats F4200 in styrofoam ;-)
[14:53:47] <PetefromTn> you making torpedoes?
[14:54:02] <Loetmichel> no, wingtip tanks for model jets
[14:54:11] <Loetmichel> or wingtips
[14:54:26] <PetefromTn> oh okay one of those INEXPENSIVE hobbies....
[14:55:49] <Loetmichel> no hobby
[14:55:59] <Loetmichel> i worket for a small model company back there
[14:56:03] <Loetmichel> -t+d
[14:56:26] <PetefromTn> what does that mean?
[14:56:35] <Loetmichel> the first video was the mold for a tip tank for a 1:5 Viper jet
[14:57:24] <PetefromTn> cool...
[14:57:31] <Loetmichel> the second was tha mold for a winktip for a fieseler storch
[14:57:41] <Loetmichel> wingtip
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[14:58:12] <Loetmichel> we made these models
[14:58:48] <L84Supper> Loetmichel: what were the final molds made from?
[14:59:00] <Loetmichel> glass fibre
[14:59:52] <Loetmichel> and a 1:5 viper jet or a 1:4 fieseler storch are BIG models ;-)
[15:00:15] <PetefromTn> No doubt..
[15:00:27] <PetefromTn> looks like nice work man. you should be proud.
[15:00:36] <Loetmichel> http://www.paoloseverin.it/Fieseler/files/page39-1033-full.html
[15:00:55] <L84Supper> I wonder who sells N. Korea their 1:1 models?
[15:03:00] <PetefromTn> well I better get off here and do something or else I'll just sit here all day chatting and surfing LOL...
[15:03:45] <PetefromTn> Loetmichel: where ya from?
[15:03:55] <Loetmichel> germany
[15:04:40] <PetefromTn> Cool vids man. cya guys later...
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[15:07:23] <Loetmichel> hmm, what i wanted to say: these parts were made with deskproto as cam... now he is gone ;-)
[15:08:28] <Loetmichel> oh, i stand corrected: the tiptanks wre for a L39 albatros, not the viper... same size though ;-)
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[15:29:25] <dosas> hi since i want to use linuxcnc with my reprap i need to buy a serial port card
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[15:29:36] <JT-Shop> nope
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[15:30:02] <dosas> i have looked on the wiki after suitable cards but they all seem pretty old
[15:30:15] <dosas> so what i figured i need is the epp/epc thing
[15:30:27] <dosas> is this special to some chipsets
[15:30:36] <dosas> uor do all cards today support this
[15:30:45] <JT-Shop> serial is not used with LinuxCNC
[15:30:49] <JT-Shop> nor USB
[15:30:51] <L84Supper> dosas: did you see the PCIe cards?
[15:30:55] <dosas> sorry parallel
[15:30:58] <dosas> yes
[15:31:10] <dosas> but i don't think you can buy them anymore
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[15:31:17] <Loetmichel> L84Supper: north corean models are made from cardboard. thats something we didnt do ;-)
[15:31:25] <L84Supper> EPP is legacy
[15:31:41] <L84Supper> Loetmichel: :)
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[15:31:54] <dosas> so what you are saying is that any pci to parallel card will do today
[15:32:26] <JT-Shop> aye a PCI parallel card will work in most cases
[15:32:27] <L84Supper> dosas: no, why do you insist on EPP?
[15:32:34] <dosas> the wiki insists
[15:32:38] <JT-Shop> what kind of stepper drive do you have?
[15:32:46] <dosas> i have the pololus
[15:32:49] <JT-Shop> nothing insists
[15:32:56] <JT-Shop> what's that?
[15:33:01] <dosas> i don't insist on anything
[15:33:09] <dosas> i just want to buy a card that will work
[15:33:15] <L84Supper> why not PCIe ?
[15:33:17] <JT-Shop> what is a pololus?
[15:33:35] <L84Supper> which pololu?
[15:33:38] <dosas> http://www.pololu.com/catalog/product/1182
[15:33:45] <dosas> the stuff that is used for reprap
[15:34:02] <dosas> i foud a page on the wiki somewhere whcih told me it will work
[15:34:02] <L84Supper> step and direction
[15:34:08] <dosas> but i cannot find it anymore
[15:34:16] <JT-Shop> just use your onboard parallel port
[15:34:25] <dosas> fdon't have one
[15:34:29] <L84Supper> or find an old PC with EPP
[15:34:30] <dosas> no mainboard today has
[15:34:32] <JT-Shop> laptop?
[15:34:36] <dosas> no
[15:34:39] <dosas> desktop
[15:34:43] <dosas> but rather new
[15:34:56] <dosas> so EPP is important
[15:35:07] <JT-Shop> did you run the latency test?
[15:35:11] <dosas> wow
[15:35:13] <dosas> no
[15:35:19] <dosas> i haven't even bought the card
[15:35:22] <JT-Shop> might want to start there
[15:35:24] <dosas> nor installed anything
[15:35:26] <skunkworks> dosas: you need epp if you are going to use the epp protocaol.. for just doing step/dir out of the printer port - most anything will work
[15:35:34] <JT-Shop> boot from the LiveCD
[15:35:34] <dosas> kk
[15:35:43] <dosas> some one on that chat didn't think so
[15:36:17] <L84Supper> many PCIe to EPP cards will work if you can find them
[15:36:17] <dosas> so i will buy one with the chipset described in the wiki
[15:36:26] <dosas> many but not all
[15:36:35] <dosas> anyone of you recently bought a card?
[15:36:42] <dosas> what i also wanted to ask
[15:36:43] <JT-Shop> a PCI card?
[15:36:45] <dosas> is card better
[15:36:54] <JT-Shop> better than what?
[15:36:57] <dosas> or the expensive stuff recommended on the wiki
[15:37:02] <L84Supper> people are using old boards with EPP or using PCI or PCIe
[15:37:24] <JT-Shop> expensive stuff is not very descriptive
[15:37:31] <dosas> sorry
[15:37:45] <dosas> i am a bit confused now
[15:38:02] <JT-Shop> it is very hard to guess what your asking when you are not specific
[15:38:08] <dosas> sorry
[15:38:10] <JT-Shop> I stay confused so it is not a problem
[15:38:14] <L84Supper> http://www.siig.com/it-products/serial-parallel/parallel/pcie/dp-1-port-ecp-epp-parallel-pcie.html
[15:38:36] <JT-Shop> dosas: does your computer have a PCI slot?
[15:38:45] <JT-Shop> or only a PCIe?
[15:38:51] <dosas> http://www.amazon.de/2P-EPP-ECP-Parallel-Karte-PCI/dp/B0028OL9C4/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1368364205&sr=8-4&keywords=netmos#productDescription
[15:38:55] <dosas> i had thsi one in mind
[15:39:04] <dosas> PCI
[15:39:07] <dosas> is still free
[15:39:20] <dosas> so epp is parellel port
[15:39:26] <dosas> and by pci i you mean
[15:39:36] <dosas> a card where the driver hardware is already on the card?
[15:40:24] <JT-Shop> please read this excellent write up on parallel port cards on the forum http://www.linuxcnc.org/index.php/english/forum/18-computer/18917-faq-pci-parallel-port-cards
[15:40:31] <dosas> kk
[15:40:34] <L84Supper> http://retired.beyondlogic.org/epp/epp.pdf
[15:40:57] <dosas> i was reading the wiki
[15:41:08] <JT-Shop> you only need epp for epp drivers like G540
[15:41:08] <dosas> but could it be that the stuff there is a bit outdated?
[15:41:16] <JT-Shop> always possible
[15:41:23] <JT-Shop> it is user maintained
[15:41:28] <dosas> yeah sure
[15:41:48] <ssi> hey JT-Shop
[15:42:05] <JT-Shop> I would say a cheap $10 PCI parallel port card would work fine with those drives
[15:42:08] <JT-Shop> hi ssi
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[15:42:39] <JT-Shop> dosas: did you check to see if you had a parallel header on your motherboard?
[15:43:03] <L84Supper> dosas: are you controlling nema17's with the A4988
[15:43:11] <JT-Shop> dosas: before you do anything boot from the LiveCD and run the latency test for a long time
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[15:44:29] <dosas> yes i checked
[15:44:43] <L84Supper> dosas: since you're using $10 stepper drivers, what are you controlling?
[15:44:46] <dosas> yes i am controlling nema17 with the A4988
[15:45:04] <dosas> yes of course i will install everything properly and test before i do anything
[15:45:16] <dosas> a reprap
[15:45:24] <dosas> for now
[15:45:28] <L84Supper> dosas: do you need real time control or just moving a motor from A to B?
[15:45:43] <dosas> i think i need realtime control
[15:45:46] * JT-Shop wanders off to take a nap
[15:46:00] <ssi> JT-Shop: before you nap! I need your help :)
[15:46:11] <L84Supper> dosas: you might want to try #reprap
[15:46:20] <dosas> no
[15:46:27] <ssi> I'm a bit hung up with the thcud component
[15:46:27] <dosas> i want to use linux cnc
[15:46:41] <dosas> because reprap software is terrible
[15:46:42] <L84Supper> dosas: good for you!
[15:46:53] <JT-Shop> ssi: how is that?
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[15:47:15] <dosas> i was just asking about the parallel cards
[15:47:47] <ssi> JT-Shop: I'm not sure exactly how to configure it... I was mostly guessing at everything
[15:47:56] <ssi> and when I finally got it to where it'd try to move the z position
[15:48:03] <L84Supper> dosas: I don't think there is a list of known good PCI or PCIe to LPT cards
[15:48:05] <ssi> it does so all the time, and I'm not sure how to "gate" it or something
[15:48:18] <ssi> like, should I tie its enable to torch on? or arc-ok?
[15:48:20] <L84Supper> dosas: but i hope I'm wrong
[15:48:27] <dosas> i saw some recommendations on the wiki
[15:48:38] <dosas> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?LinuxCNC_Supported_Hardware
[15:48:43] <ssi> what should the velocity and velocity tolerance params be set to
[15:49:28] <L84Supper> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?NetMos
[15:49:44] <JT-Shop> ssi: if it reacts too fast then reduce the velocity, or as I do set it so low it won't react to inputs then slowly raise it up till I'm happy
[15:49:51] <L84Supper> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?Startech
[15:50:01] <ssi> I see
[15:50:02] <L84Supper> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?SIIG
[15:50:15] <dosas> yes but i think this is pretty outdated according to the link from JT-Shop
[15:50:20] <L84Supper> dosas: look for cards with those LPT chipsets
[15:50:21] <ssi> when I finally got it to where it was saying it was trying to control zpos, the Z axis just started whining
[15:50:27] <ssi> and the stepper wasn't holding
[15:50:30] <dosas> Try to avoid the 9805 and 9815 chips which are quite old and were a bit flakey
[15:50:41] <L84Supper> dosas: yeah, why I said there is no good list
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[15:51:02] <L84Supper> cheap on ebay
[15:51:02] <dosas> so what i found from this link
[15:51:32] <dosas> if you wwant to use the drivers that need EPP the card has to have these chipsets or the capability
[15:51:37] <dosas> if not any card will do
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[15:53:28] <JT-Shop> ssi: something don't sound right
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[15:55:32] <ssi> JT-Shop: what units are correction-vel and velocity-tol in?
[15:55:36] <ssi> I used 0.1 tol and 20 vel
[15:55:42] <ssi> thinking that's 0.1 = 10% and 20ipm
[15:55:47] <ssi> but maybet that's 20ips?
[15:55:49] <ssi> that'd be too fast
[15:55:50] <ssi> heh
[15:56:09] <dosas> and did i get this right i can wire up the drivers directly to the parallel port no need fo any microcontrollers or FPGAs inbetween
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[15:57:20] <JT-Shop> I think they are units per second
[15:57:29] <JT-Shop> checking to see what mine is
[15:58:38] <L84Supper> dosas: the A4988's are 3-5.5V logic in
[15:58:38] <andypugh> dosas: Yes. A breakout makes things easier, but they are not a requirment.
[15:59:04] <dosas> cool
[15:59:40] <dosas> but if i wanted to control a spindel via PWM i would need a breakout right because parallel can not do this
[16:00:00] <Loetmichel> dosas: you only need a RC filter
[16:00:16] <JT-Shop> ssi: I'm using a sligtly different component but my gain is 0.000005
[16:00:24] <dosas> so a parallel port can output pwm signals
[16:00:25] <Loetmichel> that can be build "inline" in ghte cable if wanted...
[16:00:43] <Loetmichel> it can
[16:00:51] <L84Supper> is there a list somewhere of know good with linuxcnc PCI or PCIe LPT cards?
[16:01:08] <dosas> i didn't see one
[16:01:15] <JT-Shop> ssi: I'm working on a thcud sample configuration, should be done in a day or three
[16:01:21] <Loetmichel> dont know,, i have industrial boards in my linuxCNC PCs, so there are LPTs on board ;-)
[16:01:32] <tjtr33> for arduino web-gui, bitlash-commander is fun https://github.com/billroy/bitlash-commander/blob/master/screenshot.png i built node.js v8.18 then ran bitlash on arduino, then ran node, then openend localhost:3000 and made my irrigation valves work :)
[16:02:21] <JT-Shop> ssi: thc.correction-vel float rw
[16:02:21] <JT-Shop> The amount of change in user units per period to move Z to correct
[16:02:27] <dosas> but as far is i now know it doesn't matter which one you buy, unless you need the epp feature
[16:02:47] <ssi> hm
[16:02:56] <ssi> units per period?
[16:02:56] <dosas> if this sentence is right one could add it to the wiki recommended hardware page?
[16:03:01] <ssi> what's the period, servo-thread?
[16:03:09] <ssi> units per ms would be a bit smaller than 20 :)
[16:03:12] <JT-Shop> yea, base thread
[16:03:17] <JT-Shop> yup
[16:04:14] <ssi> what about the tolerance?
[16:04:29] <JT-Shop> that would be the same unit
[16:04:53] <ssi> and what does that do exactly?
[16:04:59] <ssi> deadband around which it doesn't attempt to correct?
[16:05:01] <JT-Shop> opps no
[16:05:04] <ssi> seems like that doesn't have a time component
[16:05:10] <JT-Shop> which tolerance
[16:05:25] <ssi> param rw float velocity_tol "The deviation percent from planned velocity";
[16:06:00] <JT-Shop> that is the corner lock, if it falls outside of that range no correction will be applied
[16:06:16] <dosas> cool than i can even heat the reprap over pwm the only open problem is the temperature readout
[16:06:22] <dosas> thanks a lot
[16:06:35] <ssi> ohh that must be similar to what lcthc calls "tip saver"
[16:06:51] <ssi> and it's already doing that... if there's a big enough deviation, it won't output a u/d signal
[16:06:57] <JT-Shop> so if you set that to 5 then if the velocity falls 5% from planned no correction
[16:06:58] <JT-Shop> yea
[16:07:13] <ssi> what would I set it to to disable it?
[16:07:22] <ssi> and is it 5 for 5%? or 0.05
[16:07:46] <JT-Shop> I think that is correct 5 for 5%
[16:08:40] <skunkworks> dosas: http://www.anderswallin.net/2012/12/temperature-pid-control-part-deux/
[16:10:36] <JT-Shop> ssi: my velocity tolerance is set with a spin box and I set the default to 0.20 so my previous assumption was wrong
[16:10:39] <dosas> why is it that the linux cnc community seems to have little interest in 3D printers
[16:10:45] <ssi> JT-Shop: ok
[16:11:00] <ssi> dosas: mostly because people running linuxcnc are running real machines, and they consider 3d printers toys
[16:11:10] <Tom_itx> as they are
[16:11:11] <dosas> i have seen plasma and laser but only very little hacked together 3d printing stuff
[16:11:20] <dosas> okay
[16:11:20] <L84Supper> dosas: it's >90% of what I do, just not the glue gun kind
[16:11:24] <JT-Shop> when I get the thcud sample configuration done I'll ping you
[16:11:29] <dosas> but sometimes toys are fun to play with
[16:11:34] <JT-Shop> bbl
[16:11:38] <ssi> JT-Shop: ok cool... I'll play with what you've given me and see where I can get
[16:11:52] <ssi> dosas: I have 3d printers, and I enjoy them
[16:11:56] <ssi> but I'm not running them on linuxcnc
[16:12:08] <dosas> ssi: why not
[16:12:15] <dosas> which model do you have
[16:12:16] <Tom_itx> i agree about their software being lacking
[16:12:16] <ssi> cause mostly marlin works ok
[16:12:18] <ssi> repraps
[16:12:34] <ssi> I'm working on a project to port linuxcnc to beaglebone black, and give it drivers for the hardware
[16:12:40] <dosas> i think basically the 3D printing scene is considered toy because of the lack of good software
[16:12:45] <dosas> and the cheap ahrdware
[16:12:46] <ssi> and one of my goals is to make a cape that'll drive the printers
[16:12:50] <ssi> something like replicape
[16:13:12] <ssi> mostly the cheap hardware... the software is fine
[16:13:25] <dosas> but why port it
[16:13:49] <dosas> and maybe the ideology
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[16:14:01] <L84Supper> dosas: the glorified glue guns are toys since they have limited materials and are as slow as glaciers
[16:14:04] <Tom_itx> i haven't seen much useful stuff come from reprap. mostly more reprap parts and dildos etc
[16:14:26] <dosas> there are a lot of "glue guns" that are pretty professional
[16:14:31] <dosas> and are used in big companies
[16:14:36] <ssi> Tom_itx: I've made a few useful things
[16:14:42] <Tom_itx> good to hear
[16:14:53] <L84Supper> dosas: it's really old tech that nobody uses for production
[16:15:01] <dosas> not for production sure
[16:15:06] <ssi> the reason you mostly see bullshit being made on them is because most people that play with them are hipster douchebags that think 3d printing is going to topple walmart
[16:15:09] <dosas> but for rapid prototyping
[16:15:16] <dosas> yes
[16:15:21] <dosas> good poitn ssi
[16:15:35] <dosas> so we built the reprap
[16:15:46] <dosas> and then i stumbled upon linux cnc
[16:16:05] <ssi> dosas: what are you using for hardware?
[16:16:14] <dosas> the hippster bullshit
[16:16:16] <ssi> electronics I mean
[16:16:17] <ssi> ramps?
[16:16:24] <dosas> i mean you cannot put a spindel on thsi
[16:16:27] <L84Supper> FDM is a small subset of additive manufacturing tech
[16:16:32] <ssi> no, you absolutely can't
[16:16:39] <dosas> selmade electronics with the plolu drivers
[16:16:43] <dosas> sorry
[16:16:44] <ssi> ok
[16:16:47] <dosas> selmade pololu
[16:16:52] <ssi> well you have a couple options
[16:16:52] <dosas> selfmade
[16:17:01] <dosas> what i wanna do
[16:17:02] <ssi> as folks were saying, get a parallel port
[16:17:04] <ssi> OR
[16:17:07] <ssi> get a mesa card
[16:17:12] <ssi> it'll be more money, but it'll be more good
[16:17:12] <dosas> i want to see if i can get 3 axis working on linux cnc
[16:17:24] <dosas> then maybe build a proper mill
[16:17:31] <dosas> and buy a proper pindel
[16:17:35] <dosas> spindel
[16:17:39] <ssi> I think that's a perfectly reasonable way to get your feet wet
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[16:17:48] <dosas> but not with plastic parts but with metal
[16:17:53] <ssi> but you might be disappointed with linuxcnc's support for 3d printing
[16:17:59] <dosas> maybe
[16:18:04] <ssi> you might have to hack at it a lot to get stuff to work right
[16:18:06] <dosas> but this is what i do not understand
[16:18:09] <ssi> I'm not sure if anyone's done it
[16:18:27] <ssi> you can easily get the axes moving
[16:18:27] <dosas> yes people have done it
[16:18:34] <gammax-Laptop1> MOrnin all, anyone recomend a cheap fly cutter that holds a decent size bar in it?
[16:18:36] <gammax-Laptop1> bit*
[16:18:40] <ssi> you'll have to treat the extruder as a C axis or something
[16:18:46] <dosas> http://www.reprap.org/wiki/EMCRepRap
[16:18:47] <ssi> gammax-Laptop1: shars not have anything?
[16:19:14] <dosas> i have read the intro to the linux cnc manual witha ll the good quotes baout components and so on
[16:19:21] <gammax-Laptop1> ssi, not seeing anything that would hold a 1/2 or 3/4
[16:19:27] <Tom_itx> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EKjKfyxD79E
[16:19:28] <Tecan> (EKjKfyxD79E) "Prusa Mendel RepRap controlled via EMC2 (LinuxCNC)" by "DarkerMark" is "Tech" - Length: 0:01:15
[16:19:34] <L84Supper> dosas: why not build an SLA printer they are 10-100x faster than the glue guns?
[16:19:34] <gammax-Laptop1> ssi, that was just in ebay though...
[16:19:37] <dosas> and done some guy adrian comes up and does it all from scratch
[16:19:47] <dosas> what is sla
[16:19:49] <Tom_itx> dosas, ^^
[16:19:59] <ssi> L84Supper: he's already got a glue gun... let him play with it :)
[16:20:09] <dosas> so why didn't he use the aready existing stuff
[16:20:17] <tjtr33> http://code.google.com/p/emcfab/
[16:20:27] <dosas> yeah i see this topic is not famous around here
[16:20:34] <ssi> dosas: no, it's not
[16:20:49] <Tom_itx> dosas, https://github.com/cdsteinkuehler/LinuxCNC-RepRap/blob/master/config/MendelMax.hal
[16:20:53] <ssi> and that guy's a communist, so god knows what his motivations were
[16:20:55] <dosas> and i was terribly furious why i wasted my money on a reprap
[16:21:01] <dosas> and did not build proper cnc
[16:21:17] <dosas> where you can mount a spoindel a laser aplasma and even if unpopular a extruder
[16:21:27] <L84Supper> reprap really make 3D printing tech look bad, it's even worse that the old patent holders didn't do much with it either
[16:21:40] <dosas> ssi :D
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[16:21:55] <dosas> yeah the reproduction ideology
[16:22:02] <ssi> dosas: so back to the practical conversation
[16:22:09] <dosas> he is not a comunist he has shares with makerbot or something
[16:22:10] <ssi> dosas: you don't have a parallel port, but you want to control hardware
[16:22:22] <dosas> as soon as i have the port
[16:22:29] <ssi> rather than getting a port
[16:22:33] <ssi> that may or may not work in linux
[16:22:37] <ssi> go here: http://www.mesanet.com
[16:22:40] <dosas> what
[16:22:45] <ssi> click on "anything i/o fpga cards" on the left
[16:22:48] <ssi> and buy the top one
[16:22:49] <ssi> 5i25
[16:22:53] <Tom_itx> dosas, https://github.com/cdsteinkuehler/LinuxCNC-RepRap
[16:23:27] <ssi> even better, buy the kit with the 7i76
[16:23:32] <L84Supper> ssi: and spend money?!
[16:23:39] <ssi> L84Supper: yea well I'm waiting for that
[16:23:45] <dosas> no i don't want to buy i want to tinker
[16:23:52] <ssi> heh ok never mind then
[16:24:00] <dosas> everyone can buy'
[16:24:09] <dosas> and i don't have the money
[16:24:15] <Tom_itx> dosas, did you get the 2 links i posted you can 'tinker' with?
[16:24:22] <dosas> yeah thank you
[16:24:26] <ssi> dosas: and that's why reprap is what it is
[16:24:42] <gammax-Laptop1> ssi, looked on there site, theres a 5 piece fly cutter set for 29 that has one that holds a 1/2... would rather have a diff size set lol
[16:24:43] <ssi> because those people have no money, and so they 'tinkered' it all into existence
[16:25:05] <jdh> is there an advantage to a flycutter over a face mill, other than cost?
[16:25:13] <dosas> there are no prices
[16:25:16] <ssi> jdh: no inserts
[16:25:24] <ssi> jdh: use a cheap lathe tool that you can sharpen
[16:25:40] <Tom_itx> face mill would be used in production over a flycutter
[16:25:40] <ssi> they leave a nice finish, and can cut bigger areas in one pass for much much cheaper
[16:26:05] <ssi> yeah in cnc production, a face mill is much more repeatable
[16:26:06] <Tom_itx> aka shell mill
[16:26:14] <ssi> but for manual work, I prefer a flycutter
[16:26:21] <jdh> I got a cheap 3inch maybe face mill. Great finish
[16:26:34] <ssi> dosas: 5i25 is $90, 5i25+7i76 kit with cable is $220
[16:26:37] <ssi> there's a price list
[16:26:56] <ssi> dosas: the point is that if you use that instead of a parallel port, you'll get much better results, and you'll have hardware that you can run a real cnc machine on later
[16:27:02] <dosas> wtf
[16:27:13] <ssi> if that shocks you, then this hobby is not for you
[16:27:24] <ssi> run marlin on an arduino
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[16:28:01] <dosas> yeah but all that is on the card are drivers right
[16:28:07] <dosas> and if i fry one the card is gone
[16:28:14] <gammax-Laptop1> dosas, im running the parralel until I can get the mesa card. its cheap in theory but VERY worth it. also very sellable if you dont want it anymore
[16:28:17] <ssi> no, there's no drivers on the card
[16:28:17] <dosas> if i fry one of the pololus i can replace them
[16:28:29] <dosas> not on the $90
[16:28:32] <dosas> but on the kit
[16:28:33] <ssi> not on either
[16:28:47] <dosas> no i will consider it
[16:28:49] <dosas> thanks for the
[16:28:52] <dosas> comments
[16:28:57] <dosas> that 's why i came here
[16:29:17] <ssi> the 5i25 runs its own firmware, and linuxcnc communicates with over a high level protocol
[16:29:32] <ssi> the 5i25 does all the step generation in the fpga
[16:29:37] <ssi> which means your computer doesn't have to
[16:29:44] <dosas> but linux cnc is able to do this
[16:29:46] <ssi> and it can break out much much more io than a parport alone
[16:30:13] <dosas> so i thought the big advantage of linux cnc is that i need no interfaces only the realtime kernel
[16:30:29] <Tom_itx> true but the interfaces make it much better
[16:30:37] <dosas> better you mean faster
[16:30:42] <ssi> much faster
[16:30:43] <L84Supper> reprap started out as a DIY GGG printer, the channel has been pretty much taken over now by commercial interests that only want to sell GGG junk
[16:30:54] <dosas> yes
[16:30:57] <ssi> with software stepping you're limited by how fast and reliably you can run the realtime base thread
[16:31:05] <Tom_itx> L84Supper with no moderator
[16:31:16] <dosas> but the card firmware is open source too
[16:31:20] <ssi> yep
[16:31:43] <dosas> and mesa is the one to go with?
[16:31:57] <L84Supper> they couldn't control Linuxcnc so they went off and pushed the arduino and now ARM M3 boards
[16:32:09] <dosas> the reprap guys?
[16:32:36] <ssi> dosas: yes mesa is the absolute way to go for linuxcnc
[16:32:55] <ssi> the driver support is very good, and their support is excellent
[16:33:04] <dosas> okay cool
[16:33:05] <Tom_itx> where _do_ you get support if you use pico boards?
[16:33:10] <dosas> do they ship world wide
[16:33:13] <ssi> Tom_itx: I guess the list
[16:33:16] <ssi> dosas: I'm sure they do
[16:33:18] <Tom_itx> dosas of course
[16:34:05] <dosas> i'm just disappointed that i heard of reprap before i heard of linuxcnc
[16:34:11] <Tom_itx> you'll want to consider better drivers if you make a cnc as well
[16:34:20] <Tom_itx> the pololu ones won't be enough
[16:34:21] <ssi> yeah you're not gonna run a cnc mill on pololus
[16:34:23] <ssi> well you might
[16:34:27] <dosas> yeah and some that can support the current
[16:34:39] <Tom_itx> same for nema17 steppers
[16:34:42] <ssi> I'm gonna try to run this guy on pololus
[16:34:42] <ssi> https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/253334_10100133670565622_1712486917_n.jpg
[16:34:47] <dosas> but i want to do some testing first before i spend money
[16:35:12] <dosas> wow
[16:35:18] <ssi> if you already had a parport, I'd say just screw with that
[16:35:24] <ssi> but since you don't, and you have to buy hardware anyway
[16:35:27] <ssi> go ahead and buy good hardware
[16:35:40] <dosas> if you buy cheap you buy twice right
[16:35:52] <ssi> yep
[16:36:08] <ssi> parport is the "I already have the port and it's adequate" solution
[16:36:08] <Tom_itx> mesa and gecko are the best imo
[16:36:10] <ssi> mesa is the caddilac
[16:36:21] <ssi> and it's just not that much money for what you get
[16:36:22] <Tom_itx> gecko for stepper drivers
[16:37:16] <ssi> gecko makes great drivers, and I've got two G540s
[16:37:23] <ssi> but the G540 eats up mesa IO
[16:37:44] <Tom_itx> i went with the 203v
[16:37:45] <ssi> I prefer to use single drivers with mesa hardware, but that costs more
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[16:37:54] <ssi> and I tend to get keling drivers cause they're inexpensive and work well
[16:38:11] <dosas> when i'm already here
[16:38:21] <Tom_itx> ssi, which one?
[16:38:30] <dosas> where do you guys buy the spindels that move the axis for the reprap i used threaded rods?
[16:38:38] <ssi> 6050 I think?
[16:38:43] <ssi> is what's on my little lathe
[16:39:06] <L84Supper> kelling is now http://www.automationtechnologiesinc.com/
[16:39:07] <ssi> dosas: threaded rod is terrible... for a step up, use acme screw... the cadillac solution there is ballscrew
[16:39:31] <ssi> my reprap has acme z screws
[16:39:42] <L84Supper> http://www.automationtechnologiesinc.com/products-page/kl-stepper-drivers
[16:39:53] <dosas> a h they have 3D printers
[16:40:30] <L84Supper> ORD Bot
[16:41:11] <L84Supper> he might start carrying SLA parts soon, I keep forgetting to stop back in there
[16:42:30] <dosas> again here they use different conceps for the z axis than on a router why
[16:42:39] <dosas> no chance to mount a spindel there
[16:45:26] <dosas> wow this stuff is even more expensive
[16:45:49] <ssi> dosas: now are you starting to see why the communists tried to reinvent the wheel?
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[16:46:32] <L84Supper> ssi: just the European commies, the Chinese do things differently
[16:46:42] <dosas> :D
[16:47:37] <dosas> why do these guys use two steppers for the z axis
[16:47:48] <ssi> which guys
[16:47:56] <dosas> first one stepper more is more expensive second what if u loose steps on one of them
[16:48:00] <L84Supper> the ORD Bot
[16:48:02] <dosas> the 3D printing guys
[16:48:29] <ssi> it's not rigid enough to lift the axis by one side
[16:48:34] <ssi> and so it needs two screws
[16:48:40] <dosas> so the design is bad
[16:48:46] <ssi> so you can either drive those with one motor or synchronize them together with a belt and pulleys
[16:49:05] <L84Supper> http://www.automationtechnologiesinc.com/products-page/3d-printer/3d-printer-mechanical-platform-no-controller
[16:49:08] <ssi> motors are cheaper
[16:49:49] <L84Supper> IIRC the ORD Bot is by the same guy that made the tool for Makerslide
[16:49:55] <dosas> thanks for the support have to now but i will hopefully visit here more often in the future
[16:50:24] <ssi> welcome to #linuxcnc, crushers of dreams
[16:50:51] <L84Supper> the same guy that put making a tool for extruding aluminum in the same category as "inventing"
[16:51:10] <ssi> haha
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[16:53:35] <L84Supper> http://www.automationtechnologiesinc.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/rail.jpg I just gave it closer look
[16:55:37] <ssi> that could be a useful profile
[16:55:42] <ssi> does it come in bigger sizes?
[16:57:02] <tjtr33> the roller guide surface is alum, i'd rather the hard ad on approach bishop-wisecarver
[16:57:16] <ssi> the hard-on approach?
[16:57:22] <tjtr33> add-on
[16:57:42] <tjtr33> http://www.bwc.com/
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[17:01:48] <L84Supper> ssi: that size should be good enough for anything :)
[17:02:19] <ssi> how big is it?
[17:02:26] <ssi> and where can you buy that extrusion and carriages that run on it?
[17:02:38] <L84Supper> brb
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[17:03:05] <ssi> tjtr33: the bwc stuff looks cool, but their website screams "don't ever buy anything from us"
[17:03:24] <gammax-Laptop1> anyione have a 24v ps they are looking to selll or know how to get 24v out of a atx power supply?
[17:03:41] <tjtr33> no prices listed? i just wanted to say that aluminum ways would suck
[17:03:43] <ssi> there's cheap 24v switchers on ebay
[17:04:12] <ssi> tjtr33: yea not just that, but it's the kind of website that says "call us and we'll set up a price for your multimillion dollar oem project"
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[17:04:53] <tjtr33> diy
[17:05:21] <L84Supper> re
[17:08:03] <L84Supper> why not just use Igus? wide range of sizes and all the hardware
[17:08:40] <L84Supper> http://store.makerslide.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=2&products_id=65
[17:08:41] <tjtr33> the plastic igus guides?
[17:09:23] <archivist> spastic
[17:09:33] <L84Supper> I missed the last 10 minutes of conversation
[17:11:02] <tjtr33> didnt miss much http://linuxcnc.mah.priv.at/irc/%23linuxcnc/2013-05-12.html
[17:12:36] <L84Supper> the makerslside stuff is great for kids to play with, if kids still played with construction kits like Erector
[17:17:09] <L84Supper> tjtr33, whats the going price to EDM a die for something like this? http://store.makerslide.com/index.php?main_page=popup_image&pID=50
[17:17:51] <L84Supper> maybe someone is already copying it, the profile at automation tech is slightly different
[17:18:53] <L84Supper> http://www.automationtechnologiesinc.com/products-page/3d-printer/open-source-aluminum-extrusion-with-v-rail-linear-bearing-system-built-in
[17:19:13] <L84Supper> I bet he's making it in China now
[17:19:21] <tjtr33> L84Supper, 40/hr , cad time & materials & heat treating
[17:19:23] <ssi> rgh
[17:19:29] <ssi> this thcud stuff isn't working for me :(
[17:20:32] <L84Supper> tjtr33, that extruder in Bensenville used to charge ~$2K for a tool
[17:20:51] <L84Supper> think they are gone now
[17:21:07] <tjtr33> L84Supper, the inches of contour is a good estimate at say 8"/hr, the relief angle isnt fancy on such a die
[17:21:35] <tjtr33> Imperial?
[17:21:44] <tjtr33> (bensenville)
[17:23:58] <tjtr33> 2k is an inexpensive tool, setup cutting polishing.. yeh 2k is cheap
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[17:24:45] <L84Supper> they would figure that you were going to use them to extrude as well, so it was probably subsidized by the extruding
[17:25:44] <L84Supper> http://www.custom-aluminum.com/ unless I was thinking of them in S. Elgin
[17:26:21] <L84Supper> they have ~10K profiles
[17:26:38] <tjtr33> a guy whose done extrusions a lot is good, the geometry change from round to weirdo ribbed rectangle is an art, there's 'suspended' bits inside the 'hole'
[17:27:17] <L84Supper> thats what made me look closer at the profile at automation tech, they have fewer hollows
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[17:28:29] <IchGuckLive> Back from wetttest BBq ever ! 5l/hr
[17:28:44] <L84Supper> in BBQ sauce?
[17:28:55] <IchGuckLive> B)
[17:29:09] <IchGuckLive> sauce has been washed of the Meat
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[17:30:47] <L84Supper> I have to go convert some parasolids to NX
[17:31:27] <L84Supper> be back in an hour or a week
[17:32:13] <IchGuckLive> O.O
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[17:32:30] <IchGuckLive> you can do this by script in most CAD systems
[17:32:48] <IchGuckLive> L84Supper: mastercam on solidworks
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[17:34:26] <L84Supper> NX imports Parasolid since it's a native format for Siemens, but it never works 100%
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[17:35:00] <IchGuckLive> L84Supper: agree on that there is a negativ face check
[17:35:10] <tjtr33> L84Supper, the alum bearing surface is not a good idea, look on ebay for 'vrail' cheap to get a model up ( 16' rail 25$ ... etc )
[17:35:49] <L84Supper> tjtr33, I don't use it, somebody was asking about it here
[17:35:54] <tjtr33> k
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[17:38:52] <tjtr33> sorry, that ebay stuff was alum also ( crap bearing surface )
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[17:40:09] <IchGuckLive> 16' = foot
[17:40:14] <IchGuckLive> or inch
[17:40:36] <andypugh> Hard-anodised Alu is an OK bearing surface for sliding.
[17:41:15] <IchGuckLive> i use that kind of rails http://thumbs2.ebaystatic.com/m/mPXhgxXRuYEQnkuTq0wITrQ/140.jpg
[17:41:44] <IchGuckLive> good and cheep till 2500mm pai for 200Euros
[17:41:56] <IchGuckLive> a pair
[17:42:40] <IchGuckLive> working good even on rouph wood chip condison in a timber shop
[17:43:48] <andypugh> (better pictures, and pricing info: http://www.zappautomation.co.uk/en/38-supported-round-rail )
[17:44:43] <L84Supper> http://www.ebay.com/itm/V-Groove-Rail-Aluminum-Linear-Guide-rail-Six-five-foot-Sections-/290858375221?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item43b8829835
[17:44:55] <L84Supper> makes any t-slot into v-rail
[17:44:59] <IchGuckLive> http://stores.ebay.de/cnc-discount
[17:45:08] <IchGuckLive> this is my shop supplyer
[17:45:54] <IchGuckLive> price and length under pink 16,20,25
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[17:54:00] <IchGuckLive> im off have a nice weekend sunday
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[18:35:59] <L84Supper> http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/story/2013/05/10/bc-flying-car-crash.html did it run out of coal?
[18:43:57] <ssi> https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BKFgGQQCAAEZwvS.jpg:large
[18:44:00] <ssi> who needs a $70 tap :D
[18:44:09] <ssi> singlepoint ftw
[18:44:53] <ssi> worked out a solution for rear-mount Y motor:
[18:44:54] <ssi> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cQeOlBbh6FY
[18:44:55] <Tecan> (cQeOlBbh6FY) "G0704 rear-mount y motor" by "imcmahon" is "Tech" - Length: 0:00:14
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[18:45:37] <ReadError_> how are those g0704 ?
[18:45:41] <ssi> cheap
[18:45:43] <ReadError_> like quality wise for the price
[18:45:50] <ReadError_> yea i see they are cheap
[18:45:51] <ssi> eh it depends what you're going for
[18:46:07] <ssi> as far as having a set of castings to build a machine on, I think they're pretty good for the price
[18:46:15] <ssi> they don't cost that much more than an X2, but it's a lot more machine
[18:46:15] <ReadError_> seems like Connor has spent forever working on his
[18:46:22] <ssi> and its considerably cheaper than an rf45
[18:46:35] <ReadError_> but in terms of hardware
[18:46:38] <ssi> I've spent forever not working on mine :P
[18:46:43] <ssi> I got it years ago
[18:46:43] <ReadError_> leadscrews crap ?
[18:46:52] <ssi> I dunno, they're acme so they came out immediately
[18:46:56] <ssi> I didn't use mine as a mill at all
[18:46:59] <ssi> never cut the first chip on it
[18:47:04] <ReadError_> lol
[18:47:09] <ssi> I have a 9x42 manual
[18:47:10] <ssi> no point
[18:47:15] <ReadError_> what did you put in?
[18:47:19] <ReadError_> 5start?
[18:47:22] <ssi> roton ballscrews
[18:47:25] <ReadError_> ah
[18:47:33] <ssi> 5/8x.200 X/Y
[18:47:37] <ssi> 3/4x.200 Z
[18:47:55] <ssi> at least that's the plan
[18:48:03] <ssi> the Y one is the only one actually in, and that's just today's work
[18:48:09] <ssi> but it's pretty far along
[18:48:11] <ReadError_> http://www.roton.com/images/2.gif
[18:48:11] <ReadError_> woh
[18:48:17] <ssi> I need to design a motor mount and get the servo mounted
[18:48:19] <ReadError_> i never knew they worked like that...
[18:48:22] <ssi> then order XL pulleys and belt from mcmaster
[18:48:39] <ssi> yea ballscrews are awesome :)
[18:48:55] <ReadError_> i thought they where just balls
[18:49:01] <ReadError_> didnt know they cycled through like that..
[18:49:12] <ssi> yeah
[18:49:19] <ssi> I've repacked them more times than I care to admit
[18:49:23] <ssi> and I have to do another one here
[18:49:34] <ssi> I hate losing my balls :)
[18:49:42] <ReadError_> my mill, is pretty small
[18:49:47] <ssi> what is it?
[18:49:48] <ReadError_> just a little taig
[18:49:50] <ssi> ah
[18:49:55] <ReadError_> but for what i do its good enough
[18:49:55] <ssi> the g0704 is small
[18:49:58] <ssi> but it's huge compared to a taig
[18:50:02] <ReadError_> yea ;)
[18:50:15] <ReadError_> cuts some nice single layer PCB!
[18:50:23] <ssi> you're pretty close to me.. you should come check out the '704
[18:51:00] <ReadError_> Connor sounded like he put a TON of work in his
[18:51:11] <ReadError_> i dont mind doing work though, its a hobby after all
[18:51:19] <ssi> you can get nicer machines
[18:51:22] <ssi> but it'll cost some bux
[18:51:30] <jdh> my g0704 was $900
[18:51:33] <ReadError_> what a good midlevel one?
[18:51:36] <ReadError_> 3k or so
[18:51:41] <ReadError_> 3-5k
[18:51:44] <ssi> depends what you want
[18:51:56] <ReadError_> something solid
[18:51:58] <ssi> I think you'll pay close to $3k for an RF45 once you factor shipping in
[18:52:00] <ReadError_> tried and true
[18:52:07] <ssi> tormach is a decent option if you want turnkey
[18:52:10] <ssi> if you want SOLID
[18:52:20] <ssi> spend $3k on a manual mill or a busted series 1 or small VMC and convert it
[18:52:25] <ssi> but the logistics get hard :)
[18:52:33] <ReadError_> tormach is all propriety stuff though
[18:52:42] <ssi> the software you mean?
[18:52:46] <ssi> I dunno anything about it
[18:52:54] <ReadError_> controller and stuff is, isnt it?
[18:53:03] <ssi> I wish you could buy something like the tormach that didn't come with drives or electronics
[18:53:03] <ReadError_> software
[18:53:09] <ReadError_> yea
[18:53:13] <ssi> but already had ballscrews and motors or maybe just mounts
[18:53:15] <ReadError_> i dont want all the extra crap
[18:53:25] <ssi> that's why I'd say buy a busted series 1 or something
[18:53:33] <ssi> get a big solid machine with motors and screws
[18:53:35] <ssi> and junk the control
[18:53:44] <ssi> that's basically the idea behind my HNC project
[18:53:49] <ssi> and pete's badass VMC
[18:53:54] <ssi> which I'm super jealous of :)
[18:54:16] <ssi> the g0704 I bought because it was cheap enough to not think twice about it, small enough to receive and move easily
[18:54:18] <ReadError_> thats like waaaaay bigger than i would ever need
[18:54:22] <ssi> and should be reasonably capable
[18:54:29] <ReadError_> i dont have a forklift
[18:54:39] <ssi> well I do have a forklift and a VMC is still a stretch :(
[18:54:44] <Connor> ReadError_: My biggest problem.. is time and money.. I run my own business (not CNC or Machine related) and Volunteer for a human Society. Time has been a big limiting factor.
[18:55:04] <ssi> Connor: was the '704 your first machine?
[18:55:09] <ReadError_> Connor: yea seems you are doing everything proper as well
[18:55:10] <ssi> first conversion anyway?
[18:55:16] <ReadError_> im like very impatient
[18:55:21] <ReadError_> and would mess it up trying to get it going
[18:55:57] <Connor> First Conversion, yes. First CNC machine. No. I built a CNC router out of MDF. Nothing but a table saw, and hand drill.
[18:56:03] <ssi> gotcha
[18:56:19] <ssi> did you get a bigger mill since?
[18:56:20] <L84Supper> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9OkBMA43qzg oops and a save
[18:56:20] <Connor> all assembled in my living room floor.
[18:56:21] <Tecan> (9OkBMA43qzg) "07 G0704 Shars 2" Face Mill Gets It Done!" by "russtuff" is "Entertainment" - Length: 0:06:12
[18:56:34] <ReadError_> i was thinking about making a MDF router using my big router
[18:56:44] <ReadError_> like a little 2'x2'
[18:57:02] <Connor> ssi, I think purchased the G0704 to convert.. and have been tinkering with it since..
[18:57:23] <ReadError_> Connor: whats the hardest part been so far?
[18:57:33] <ReadError_> quality and alot of changes?
[18:57:34] <ssi> L84Supper: that's pretty amazing
[18:58:23] <Connor> Spindle Conversion was a bit of a challenge. I need to have my pulleys redone because they have too much runout because I used my mini 7x10 lathe to turn them.. and I'm a novice at using a lathe.
[18:58:50] <ssi> I have a bit of an advantage because I've got a big manual mill and lathe
[18:58:56] <ssi> so making parts isn't too bad
[18:58:58] <Connor> Since I did phase 1 (used stock screws) the shaft adapter for the Z was a issue too.. I ended up have PeteFromTN help me make that part.
[18:59:23] <ssi> and unlike a lot of g0704 folks, I don't have to try to use the machine being converted to make parts for itself :)
[18:59:26] <Connor> The Stepper mounts were easy to make.
[18:59:31] <ssi> which sounds like a horrible bootstrapping problem that requires a lot of planning
[18:59:47] <L84Supper> I've had pretty good success with Shars tools on aluminum. I've only broken one 1/8' end mill because I got to greedy with my feed rate
[18:59:54] <Connor> It's not easy.. but, you do learn allot about milling in the process.. I never used Mill before..
[18:59:55] <ssi> I use a lot of shars tools, they work well
[19:00:03] <Connor> Made my stepper mounts manually.. without issue.
[19:00:04] <ssi> and the price is right
[19:00:10] <jdh> I skipped 'phase1' to avoid the z shaft adapter
[19:00:11] <ssi> for hobbyists, pro tools are just out of reach cost wise
[19:00:46] <generic_nick|3> wayyyyyyyyyy too much spindle speed
[19:01:03] <Connor> I'm not happy with my finish I was getting last night on my PDB lift plate..
[19:01:26] <Connor> Not sure if it's dull cutter.. or the vibration being introduced by the runout in the pulleys or what..
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[19:02:37] <L84Supper> something about 5mm taps and drills that always break for me :) usually on the last hole on the last part
[19:05:43] <L84Supper> http://www.3ders.org/articles/20130512-uk-reporters-built-a-3d-printed-gun-and-took-it-on-board-eurostar-without-being-stopped.html
[19:06:02] <generic_nick|3> https://www.facebook.com/video/embed?video_id=10151379783925976
[19:06:44] <L84Supper> now I'm stating to wonder if this is how they will start to scrutinize 3D printing and hobby CNC more
[19:07:44] <generic_nick|3> good luck with that
[19:07:54] <generic_nick|3> it'll kill our economy
[19:08:14] <generic_nick|3> they know better. no way for them to regulate manufacturing like that
[19:08:48] <L84Supper> my Jeeps always broke, so I got a Land Cruiser
[19:09:33] <ssi> generic_nick|3: you think they understand economics?
[19:09:33] <ssi> heh
[19:09:52] <L84Supper> generic_nick|3: what axles and gears?
[19:09:56] <generic_nick|3> L84Supper: but then you cant go anywhere lol
[19:10:26] <generic_nick|3> dana 60 front, 14 bolt rear. 5.38's with a rubicon 241 transfer case (4:1)
[19:12:03] <L84Supper> I used to go through gears all the time, the cases would just bend out of spec
[19:12:34] <generic_nick|3> what axles?
[19:13:20] <ReadError_> i need to get a dehumidifier for my computer room
[19:13:50] <generic_nick|3> i need one for my balls, it's hot out today
[19:13:52] <ReadError_> GA is swamp in the summertime
[19:14:20] <ssi> it's actually pretty nice today
[19:14:39] <L84Supper> generic_nick|3: any, factory through superduty aftermarket, the cases would bend to point it couldn't be rebuilt
[19:15:08] <generic_nick|3> yea i dont think so, that's not even a thing.
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[19:18:35] <L84Supper> the Dana 30 aluminum cases were really junk
[19:19:02] <generic_nick|3> liberty?
[19:19:35] <L84Supper> grand cherokee mid 90's
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[19:22:46] <L84Supper> generic_nick|3: looks like you found a working combination
[19:24:14] <generic_nick|3> they didnt have an aluminum dana 30
[19:25:22] <L84Supper> http://www.jeep4x4center.com/jeep-axle-differential-parts/dana30-front-grand-cherokee-zj.htm
[19:26:06] <generic_nick|3> that's not aluminum
[19:26:40] <L84Supper> if it wasn't it sure bent like one :)
[19:27:00] <generic_nick|3> it had a regular low pinion dana 30. cast iron third member.
[19:27:54] <generic_nick|3> the rear was either a dana 35 or dana 44a
[19:29:04] <generic_nick|3> both of those axles are crap. the dana 30 can handle 35's when properly built
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[19:29:36] <L84Supper> I've been trying to forget
[19:30:42] <generic_nick|3> you just picked the wrong jeep!
[19:30:51] <andypugh> I have a face-mill which came with an R8 spigot, now removed (could be replaced). My machine is BT30. I have tunrned down a BT30 boring tool arbor (I buy them as generic arbors as they are cheap) and this now fits the face mill. However the drive would be pure friction, a 40mm register clamped up by an 8mm bolt. I am considering a number of other options.
[19:30:56] <generic_nick|3> actually they're decent with an axle swap
[19:31:02] <L84Supper> thats why I have Land Cruisers now
[19:31:02] <andypugh> 1) See how it works out with friction.
[19:31:27] <andypugh> 2) mill grooves and add drive dogs to the shank.
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[19:32:00] <andypugh> 3) Turn off a lot more of the arbor so that the slots in the mill can engage with the drive dogs on the spindle.
[19:32:12] <L84Supper> I just got tired of fixing things
[19:32:27] <andypugh> 4) Re-machine the R8 to BT30. The angles are the same, as is the base diameter.
[19:32:27] <generic_nick|3> andypugh: i assume it will work fine
[19:33:02] <andypugh> I can imagine a lot of torque from all those cutting edges, with the mill at 100rpm.
[19:33:36] <generic_nick|3> mill a slot in both and put a piece of keystock in there
[19:34:15] <andypugh> 1000 more words: https://plus.google.com/photos/108164504656404380542/albums/5747722155741347649/5877178367126560386?banner=pwa
[19:34:17] <generic_nick|3> or drill a hole and put in a dowel pin
[19:35:11] <generic_nick|3> does it locate on any diameter of the arbor?
[19:35:18] <generic_nick|3> or just the bolt?
[19:35:37] <andypugh> It locates on that shoulder just above the thread.
[19:36:10] <generic_nick|3> few dabs of weld?
[19:36:10] <andypugh> The thread was for mounting a boring head, but is unfortunately smaller than the register.
[19:37:06] <generic_nick|3> quick and dirty.... drill and dowel.
[19:37:08] <andypugh> Actually, looking at the picture, I could put the bolts back in those holes on the top, and mill slots for their heads in the arbor.
[19:38:46] <generic_nick|3> is that a sheep?
[19:38:47] <andypugh> Though I do quite like the idea of the spindle dogs engaging the cutter directly.
[19:39:11] <generic_nick|3> in a diaper drinking out of a wine bottle?
[19:39:31] <JT-Shop> how did you make the adapter float in air?
[19:39:59] <generic_nick|3> it's england. it's actually sitting ontop of moisture.
[19:40:15] <andypugh> JT-Shop: It's actualy sat on the cutter behind the hole. But it really does look to be floating doesn't it?
[19:40:27] <JT-Shop> yes it does
[19:40:56] <andypugh> And yes, it's a sheep. And the rest. A young lass in my folks' village has a pet sheep.
[19:41:43] <generic_nick|3> random
[19:43:07] <andypugh> It is my "CNC-Unsorted" Album.
[19:44:16] <generic_nick|3> cnc sheep. you can program it to stand near any cliff you choose. it will even carry your tall boots there for you if you're goodd with classicladder.
[19:46:32] <L84Supper> http://www.tormach.com/product_pcnc_main.html I thought these sold for far less
[19:48:24] <L84Supper> ah hah, the source for Keling and several other Chinese motion systems http://www.leadshine.com/
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[19:55:54] <ssi> https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BKFwa8OCQAADVnC.jpg:large
[19:56:01] <ssi> glad to have my plasma table back online :D
[19:56:59] <L84Supper> ssi: whats with all the giant scouring pads in the buckets?
[19:57:13] <ssi> L84Supper: that's what my company makes
[19:57:18] <ssi> buckets full of scouring pads
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[20:00:15] <r00t4rd3d> why you stroking that motor?
[20:00:27] <ssi> cause if I don't it'll fall on the floor
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[20:00:56] <ssi> I wish I could find a way to tuck the X motor underneath too, but I don't see how I'd do it
[20:01:00] <ssi> without losing a lot of travel
[20:01:21] <ssi> maybe I can fold it back on the front side of the table
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[20:21:31] <L84Supper> http://emc2arduino.wordpress.com/ anyone use this?
[20:22:05] <andypugh> Someone was. We tried to persuade him that the concept was flawed, but he persisted.
[20:24:04] <L84Supper> I haven't looked into it but I looking to buy before building some thing to use for analog and non-realtime IO Comedi + Linuxcnc
[20:24:39] <L84Supper> not for motion control
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[20:26:27] <archivist> L84Supper, look back in various logs, there was someone working with linuxcnc and comedi
[20:27:17] <L84Supper> archivist: yeah I found those, somebody also mentioned writing a HAL interface for Comedi
[20:27:42] <L84Supper> but they did get Comedi and Linuxcnc working together
[20:28:36] <L84Supper> http://comments.gmane.org/gmane.linux.distributions.emc.user/31341
[20:28:53] <andypugh> I have _talked_ about writing a HAL interface for Comedi. But that is as far as I have got.
[20:29:13] <L84Supper> maybe that is something i can do
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[20:30:04] <andypugh> L84Supper: Have you seen: http://emergent.unpythonic.net/01198594294
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[20:31:39] <L84Supper> andypugh: yes, but I dislike arduino and they are getting old. I'm considering what might have a longer life
[20:31:42] <ssi> I need to buy timing pulleys for these servos, and the only ones mcmaster sells with a 3/8" bore are very big and expensive
[20:31:42] <roh> andypugh: we use basically the same
[20:31:44] <roh> https://trac.raumfahrtagentur.org/wiki/Projekte/EmcArduino
[20:31:59] <ssi> would it be unreasonable to bore out a 5/16" bore pulley to 3/8"?
[20:32:00] <roh> works well when used within sane parameters
[20:32:31] <roh> well.. we useD it. currently its unconnected since we got other 3d printers now
[20:32:51] <andypugh> ssi: You are pretty much _expected_ to bore out timing pulleys. The size list normally describe the existing bore as a "pilot" and specify the max it can be bored out to.
[20:33:04] <ssi> these aren't called out that way
[20:33:28] <andypugh> L84Supper: So why were you looking at HAL2Arduino?
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[20:33:44] <ssi> mcmaster has big L and H pulleys that are called out as machinable bore
[20:33:55] <ssi> but I guess there's no reason I can't bore out the aluminum hub on the smaller XL acetal pulleys
[20:34:22] <L84Supper> andypugh: trying to see what is already there and how much work to start with something better
[20:34:24] <ssi> I'm pretty sure I have a 3/8" reamer... I can pick up the bore with my coaxial indicator on the mill and drill it undersized and ream it
[20:34:28] <andypugh> I always have. The only hard part is finding a way to hold the pulleys in your lathe.
[20:34:45] <ssi> actually on the lathe might not be too bad
[20:34:55] <ssi> they have a 7/8" aluminum hub that sticks out past the pulley
[20:34:59] <ssi> I can hold it in a 5C collet
[20:35:08] <L84Supper> Arduino Due is out with ARM M3
[20:35:23] <roh> we only used it since we needed cheap, simple analog inputs. the temperatures measured with a ntc resistor were totally non timing critical since the mechanics integrates it anyhow (heater-sensor loops has seconds)
[20:35:43] <ssi> ew wait, did I screw up real bad?
[20:36:08] <ssi> I think I screwed up real bad
[20:36:12] <L84Supper> we need something like Linuxcnc + comedi for process control on more complex machines
[20:36:33] <roh> L84Supper: if you can get a sane connection between something like the m3 and a pc... usb isnt it.
[20:36:39] <L84Supper> just looking at what is out there off the shelf vs building and supporting something
[20:36:57] <ssi> andypugh: ok what do I do if my shaft is SMALLER than the bore the pulley comes with? :(
[20:37:15] <andypugh> ssi: You need: http://www.ebay.com/itm/111039531964 or similar.
[20:37:20] <roh> whats comedi helping there? isnt that just another hal?
[20:37:36] <ssi> andypugh: I have a boring head
[20:38:04] <ssi> I've been thinking about it backward... thinking I needed to put the big pulley on the motor
[20:38:10] <ssi> but of course the motor needs the small pulley
[20:38:19] <ssi> and the ballscrew has a 1/4" stub shaft on it now
[20:38:21] <L84Supper> roh: they do have a collection of drivers and libs to work with
[20:38:41] <ssi> biggest XL pulley in 1/4" bore is 28 tooth
[20:38:44] <andypugh> If the shaft is smaller than the bore, turn necessity into virtue by using: http://www.fennerdrives.com/trantorque/
[20:38:44] <generic_nick|3> ssi: bushing time
[20:38:55] <ssi> generic_nick|3: yeah that might be the answer
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[20:39:25] <generic_nick|3> those are neat andypugh
[20:39:43] <generic_nick|3> gotta keep those in mind
[20:39:53] <ssi> andypugh: wait what?
[20:40:19] <L84Supper> maybe something like a beaglebone black with analog
[20:40:54] <andypugh> ssi: Those things are by far the best way to mount a pulley on a shaft.
[20:41:11] <ssi> very strange
[20:41:17] <ssi> where can I get one?
[20:41:39] -!- morfic- [morfic-!~morfic@unaffiliated/morfic] has joined #linuxcnc
[20:41:44] <ssi> ew they're spend
[20:41:46] <ssi> spendy
[20:41:52] <L84Supper> http://circuitco.com/support/index.php?title=BeagleBone_Capes
[20:42:04] <generic_nick|3> youch, 40 bones
[20:43:00] <L84Supper> CAN, Profibus but no analog yet
[20:43:42] <andypugh> I used the idea to mount very small pulleys to my motor shafts. i bored the pulleys with a taper bore, then used a handy threaded hole in the end of the shaft to pull a tapered bush into that hole.
[20:45:33] <andypugh> L84Supper: Mesa 7i87? The other end of the fast-serial connection doesn't _have_ to be a Mesa FPGA card.
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[20:54:20] <L84Supper> they make little analog SPI modules with PIC's on them for ~$10
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[20:58:47] <L84Supper> http://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=a1z10.5.w4002-47979551.22.VuzTRU&id=20362859170
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[21:05:39] <DJ9DJ> gn8
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[21:09:29] <tjtr33> L84Supper, i use the english arm of taobao http://mytaofocus.com/ ( find stuf on taobao but argue prices on taofocus )
[21:09:37] -!- pikeaero [pikeaero!~quassel@216-167-252-197.eastlink.ca] has joined #linuxcnc
[21:09:40] <tjtr33> and didnt know you read Chinese
[21:10:00] <L84Supper> I'm not so good, just learning
[21:11:11] <L84Supper> local pricing is always lower
[21:11:45] <L84Supper> figure at least 10% for foreigners
[21:12:06] <tjtr33> you got cnxnxin China or Taiwan anyway, they can get stuff for you ( yah 'fahrang' prices )
[21:12:54] <andypugh> I have a Komet ABS adaptor here. It's a very simple but rather clever coupling system.
[21:14:49] <tjtr33> ive used expanding sheaves but they worked on straight bores, the tapers were on 2 mating sleeves placed in the bore
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[21:22:34] <ssi> grr this is like the worst possible way to have to do this
[21:22:41] <ssi> little pulley on a big shaft, big pulley on a little shaft :(
[21:23:44] <ssi> and I feel like a fool because I had cut the ballscrew at 5/16", and I spun it down to 1/4" cause I got in my head that I needed to put the little pulley on the screw
[21:24:59] <ssi> https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BKGFA46CQAA-7-2.jpg:large
[21:25:08] <ssi> btw boring a 20 tooth MXL pulley to 3/8" isn't advisable :)
[21:28:10] <r00t4rd3d> http://sacramento.cbslocal.com/2013/05/08/sen-leland-yee-proposes-regulations-on-3-d-printers-after-gun-test/
[21:28:19] <r00t4rd3d> and so it begins
[21:28:46] <ssi> yea I saw that
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[21:28:54] <ssi> I'm kinda hoping california bans 3d printers
[21:29:04] <ssi> since there's certainly more per capita there than anywhere else
[21:29:19] <DaViruz> it's great when legislators have a firm grasp of reality
[21:29:46] <jdh> they should ban hurting people, that would fix everything.
[21:29:54] <DaViruz> oh wait..
[21:29:55] <DaViruz> :)
[21:30:19] <ssi> jdh: pretty sure they did that hundreds of years ago
[21:30:40] <L84Supper> it would help if they actually discouraged it vs rewarding it if you have money or power
[21:30:46] <L84Supper> the double standard
[21:31:08] <L84Supper> but we are years away from that
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[21:33:42] <ssi> anyone ever used miniature chain for reductions instead of timing belt?
[21:38:30] <gonzo__> just done that on my BP conversion
[21:38:46] <gonzo__> only one axis to try the idea
[21:39:11] <gonzo__> using 25H chain and sprockets designed for mini moto
[21:39:18] <gonzo__> seems to work ok
[21:39:26] <ssi> cool
[21:39:36] <ssi> the sprocket combos don't work out any better for me than timing pulleys do :/
[21:39:50] <tjtr33> andypugh, is there some setting tool used with the Komet ABS? ( how is the seat and the clamp screw adjusted properly ?)
[21:40:33] <gonzo__> the DC motors I was using already had a sprocket on, so though I'd give chain drive a try
[21:44:34] <andypugh> tjtr33: I am not sure I understand the question.
[21:45:28] <andypugh> The key point is that the middle cylinder floats, so you get a two-point vertical clamping action.
[21:46:05] <andypugh> I assume that the cylindrical bore/spigot are just a careful fit.
[21:46:17] <tjtr33> theres a cross pin that sits in a seat, and a clamping pin that pushes the cross pin into position. is there adjustment or is the seat screwed in solid?
[21:46:20] <tjtr33> ok thx
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[22:05:55] <generic_nick|3> hmmm wonder if it's a bad idea to stream pandora on my mill while it's running 4 axes, quite a bit of ladder logic, and a spindle.
[22:06:29] <generic_nick|3> anyone think that will choke an atom?
[22:08:20] <tjtr33> the non-rt stuff should suffer but the rt stuff should not ( you might see the keyboard get unresponsive but not loose position or speeds )
[22:08:43] <generic_nick|3> cool thats what i figured but wasnt sure
[22:08:53] <tjtr33> so it might 'choke' but the part should be ok
[22:08:58] <generic_nick|3> i was hoping to consolidate computers a bit
[22:09:14] <generic_nick|3> is that more of a processor or ram issue?
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[22:11:27] <tjtr33> both, its a system issue and the resulting jitter/latency. if the requested tasks get done inside each thread cycle, its ok.
[22:12:08] <tjtr33> if the system has to handle odd interrupts/priorities, then the part can suffer
[22:12:40] <tjtr33> dma usb hd video bus grabs... = bad bad thangs
[22:13:36] <generic_nick|3> gotcha
[22:13:41] <generic_nick|3> hmm
[22:14:48] <tjtr33> off to hdwr store for 3/4 ght, bbl
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[22:20:40] <jdh> Here are the glory details:
[22:22:01] -!- PetefromTn [PetefromTn!~quassel@66-191-249-180.dhcp.kgpt.tn.charter.com] has joined #linuxcnc
[22:22:33] <PetefromTn> ..
[22:22:40] <PetefromTn> afternoon fellas.
[22:22:43] <jdh> <wrong window>
[22:23:24] <r00t4rd3d> http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=gXu57pswXyk#t=16s
[22:23:25] <Tecan> (gXu57pswXyk) "إدلب لقطة اكثر من رائعة تحقيق اصابة مباشر في معمل القرميد مع اشتعال النار فيه مميز جدا 11-5-2013 -" by "098765432180821" is "Film" - Length: 0:00:47
[22:23:29] <r00t4rd3d> lol
[22:24:39] <PetefromTn> Finally bought a cheap vise for the VMC today.
[22:26:11] <generic_nick|3> what did ya get?
[22:26:46] <PetefromTn> I was searching youtube and looking at the CNC style vises with the smooth sides that clamp down.
[22:27:12] <generic_nick|3> you dont need the smooth sides
[22:27:13] <PetefromTn> The ones that are on there are all over the place price wise.
[22:27:28] <PetefromTn> Today I checked with Shars and they actually had them on sale
[22:27:29] <generic_nick|3> you just need positive locking
[22:28:02] <PetefromTn> Actually I have had several occasions where smooth sides and the ability to locate the vise sideways might have been nice.
[22:28:36] <PetefromTn> Anyways, I checked on them and they were on sale for $140.00 or so.
[22:29:53] <PetefromTn> If you order them from ebay they are like $170.00 plus shipping is like $60.00 or so.
[22:30:32] <PetefromTn> Well when I bought it on sale at Shars I went to buy it and the shipping from UPS ground was only $33.00 so that was pretty decent I think.
[22:30:42] <PetefromTn> It is the 6" model.
[22:31:08] <PetefromTn> I know they are not the best but I will just be glad to get something on there that I can use until I can afford a nicer vise.
[22:31:23] <PetefromTn> I also picked up an electronic edge finder which was also on sale.
[22:31:45] <PetefromTn> Now maybe I can run the parts I am designing for the test programs on the machine.
[22:32:09] <generic_nick|3> link to the vice?
[22:32:45] <generic_nick|3> and r00t4rd3d, wtf did you just link us to?
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[22:35:15] <PetefromTn> paste...http://www.shars.com/products/view/69/6quot_Lock_CNC_Vise
[22:37:08] <jdh> http://www.shars.com/products/view/62/5x5x112quot_Lock_Down_Precision_Milling_Machine_Vise
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[22:53:52] <PetefromTn> anyone built a NICE table mounted tool length sensor or have a good link to some plans?
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[23:12:38] <generic_nick|3> shouldnt be too hard
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[23:14:02] <generic_nick|3> good idea though, i should make one
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[23:15:58] <PetefromTn> Yup the Haas Machines I worked on briefly used the Renishaw Tool touch probes that were table mounted. They were very nice and convenient to use. I am just wondering if there is anyone who has a good design for one that is working well that they would share.
[23:17:24] <generic_nick|3> just use some phenolic sheet to isolate a plate on the table and ground the spindle.
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[23:19:32] <generic_nick|3> or delrin
[23:20:27] <generic_nick|3> or anodized aluminum
[23:20:56] <PetefromTn> yeah don't like that idea at all because it does not account for any overrun.
[23:21:09] <generic_nick|3> overrun?
[23:21:15] <PetefromTn> A table mounted sensor with a spring loaded switch and some down travel in it will be safer.
[23:21:50] <PetefromTn> Yeah once the tool hits the switch even moving slow it takes a moment for it to slow down. that is basicaly a real soft crash
[23:23:06] <PetefromTn> With a plunger type switch you can account for this and if you setup the probing to test it several times you can average the outcome for a more precise measurement even with a less than perfect switch.
[23:23:40] <r00t4rd3d> mortar attack
[23:23:55] <r00t4rd3d> that was actually filmed half way decent
[23:25:40] <generic_nick|3> who is that?
[23:25:56] <generic_nick|3> i cant read that crap
[23:26:04] <r00t4rd3d> syria
[23:26:09] <generic_nick|3> ah
[23:26:32] <generic_nick|3> some of the vids on that channel are odd
[23:26:35] <generic_nick|3> or all of them
[23:26:46] <r00t4rd3d> i only seen that one
[23:26:59] <r00t4rd3d> on liveleak.com originally
[23:27:29] <andypugh> PetefromTn: http://www.wildhorse-innovations.com/?_a=viewProd&productId=80
[23:28:11] <PetefromTn> andypugh: yeah I know I have seen those. I am gonna have to build one tho.
[23:28:30] <andypugh> Why?
[23:28:33] <r00t4rd3d> mcmaster website ordering sucks balls
[23:29:05] <r00t4rd3d> no shipping costs, no deduction from cc....
[23:29:29] <generic_nick|3> yea it does suck a bit
[23:29:42] <generic_nick|3> no brand names
[23:29:54] <generic_nick|3> crap shoot what you get
[23:29:57] <r00t4rd3d> i sent them a complaint and canceled my order and got what i needed off ebay and told them about it
[23:30:02] <PetefromTn> because I am a poor bastard.
[23:30:19] <r00t4rd3d> i even paid more
[23:30:24] <PetefromTn> Mcmaster is awesome and has super fast shipping.
[23:30:36] <andypugh> Ah, so your budget is <$100?
[23:30:56] <andypugh> I got a real Renishaw on eBay for £50
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[23:31:50] <PetefromTn> LOL I'll buy it for $51.00...
[23:32:26] <PetefromTn> Yeah I just popped for a vise and an edge finder. Things are real tight around here lately and my fabrication work has slowed to a crawl.
[23:32:38] <andypugh> For a super-cheap tool setter just have a spring-loaded plunger and use electrical conductivity.
[23:32:41] <PetefromTn> Just hoping I can get some machine work going with the VMC here soon to pick things up a bit.
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[23:34:29] <PetefromTn> andypugh: yeah that is pretty much what I am gonna do. Just make a nice one DIY style. That is why I was looking for some ideas.
[23:35:12] <andypugh> It is worth bearing in mine that carbide is conductive, to you can make your plunger hard-wearing.
[23:37:05] <andypugh> Early shift in the lab tomorrow, time to log off.
[23:37:09] <andypugh> Night all.
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[23:38:01] <tjtr33> carbide plunger switches http://www.misumiusa.com/CategoryImages/Metric_2009_pdf/p1023.pdf
[23:38:37] <tjtr33> < renishaw$ > ace hardware$
[23:40:50] <PetefromTn> interesting.... what do you mean renishaw/ace?
[23:41:37] <r00t4rd3d> spending 50 bucks on special nuts and brackets sucks
[23:41:41] <r00t4rd3d> damn tslot
[23:42:28] <ssi> hate that
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[23:44:15] <L84Supper> hmmm Actel Fusion FPGA+ARM M3's are only $3ea
[23:44:46] <L84Supper> those could make for a very flexible GPIO and analog board
[23:45:30] <L84Supper> easily connect to Mesa over SPI
[23:45:56] <tjtr33> PetefromTn, misumi is cheaper than Renishaw and more expensive than something rigged up from Ace Hardware parts
[23:46:57] <PetefromTn> yeah I agree. Honestly i think I can make a decent one using a proper photo interruptor and some careful machine work.
[23:46:59] <ssi> misumi takes a long time
[23:47:18] <ssi> mcmaster carries the same extrusions as misumi and is much quicker
[23:47:44] <tjtr33> local for me ( schaumburg Il) ( and mcmastercarr is Northlake Il same diff )
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[23:48:40] <PetefromTn> never heard of misumi
[23:48:44] <ssi> misumi usually takes 2 weeks to get me anything
[23:49:17] <L84Supper> Misumi list all their products by days to deliver now
[23:49:53] <L84Supper> I can drive over and pick up from them same day for some things
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[23:53:01] <L84Supper> tjtr33: Steiner Electric stocks 80/20 now
[23:53:37] <tjtr33> L84Supper, as cheap as lake in the hils? JT buys his from clone supplier there
[23:54:50] <L84Supper> tjtr33: heh, they never work out for me I'm 10 minutes down the road but I have to order from 30 miles away
[23:55:17] <tjtr33> http://www.frame-world.com/
[23:55:24] <L84Supper> Frameworld
[23:55:28] <L84Supper> yeah
[23:55:42] <L84Supper> kind of jerks on the phone whenever I tried
[23:56:12] <tjtr33> salesmen! (1st to go up against the wall when the revolution comes :)
[23:56:16] <L84Supper> Steiner is 2 minutes from them
[23:56:34] <L84Supper> the Crystal Lake one anyway
[23:57:24] <tjtr33> venditori, pah! pirata!
[23:58:01] <L84Supper> https://www.steinerelectric.com/index.jsp?p=home&path=80-20
[23:59:31] <L84Supper> https://www.steinerelectric.com/index.jsp?path=product&part=505906&ds=dept&process=search&qdx=0&text=t-slot%20extrusion
[23:59:49] <L84Supper> 2" X 2" T-SLOTTED EXTRUSION 145" BAR $82.65 / ea