Back
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[00:04:04] <ssi> aha
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[00:05:46] <ssi> what order of magnitude should FF2 be?
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[00:06:31] <PCW> well starting with F= MA...
[00:06:52] <PCW> probably small to start
[00:07:31] <ssi> I don't have a huge amount of accel error
[00:07:41] <ssi> but setting FF2=1 actually causes an error spike at the start of a move
[00:07:57] <generic_nick|2> ssi: do you have gain and feedback controls on the servo drives?
[00:08:33] <generic_nick|2> i could never use ff2, it always made it super rough.
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[00:08:58] <ssi> generic_nick|2: yeah but they're in current mode, and the datasheet has suggested positions for them
[00:09:01] <ssi> one's max, the other zero
[00:09:17] <PCW> FF2 is needed for torque mode drives (just as FF1 is needed for velocity mode)
[00:09:30] <generic_nick|2> huh i dont use ff1 either lol
[00:10:15] <PCW> If you have velocity mode drives you will get poor performance without FF1
[00:10:43] <ssi> PCW: 0.1 FF2 doesn't seem to hurt anything
[00:10:48] <ssi> but it doesn't really help either
[00:10:57] <generic_nick|2> i know on any drive i have used if the gain on the amp is set too low it needed a ton of p and never had good holding torque. i have always turned the gain up a little
[00:11:04] <ssi> I see more of a problem with steady-state error during a move than I do on acceleration
[00:11:09] <JT-Shop> generic_nick|2: you might want to look at my velocity tuning tutorial
[00:11:16] <ssi> adding as much as FF2=1 *creates* an accel error problem
[00:11:45] <PCW> Yes with all FF terms its a balance
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[00:12:27] <PCW> You may also have accel set so low that the error is too small to see easily
[00:12:51] <generic_nick|2> i have no idea if mine are velocity or torque mode. however they do seem to work fine without any ff values
[00:13:03] <generic_nick|2> i have copley 215 drives
[00:13:11] <ssi> yeah lemme turn the accel back up
[00:13:18] <ssi> generic_nick|2: do you have tachometers?
[00:13:27] <generic_nick|2> yes
[00:13:29] <andypugh> I read somewhere that 90% of PID controlers are nowhere near being tuned right, but still work fine.
[00:13:38] <PCW> and the velocity needs to be high enough that the acceleration phase lasts a while on the screen
[00:13:45] <andypugh> I know none of mine are :-)
[00:14:00] <generic_nick|2> andypugh: that 90% includes mine lol
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[00:14:20] <cradek> I read somewhere that 90% of statistics are just made up
[00:14:42] <PCW> not so high that you are more than say 1/2 full torque during accel
[00:14:56] <generic_nick|2> http://www.copleycontrols.com/motion/pdf/200_ScanedManual.PDF
[00:14:56] <PCW> (check PID output for this)
[00:15:11] <andypugh> One of mine has an I-term that is the product of three 8x8 maps, so there are 192 numbers to put in. I can't even explore all the degrees of freedom.
[00:16:14] <generic_nick|2> are drives with tach feedback generally velocity mode?
[00:16:23] <generic_nick|2> or does that not matter much?
[00:16:28] <andypugh> One big issue: This is an engine oil-pressure controller. I can't tune it for correct operation at less than the minimum safe pressure, because I am not allowed there.
[00:17:13] <PCW> Yes If you have tachs you have a velocity mode drive (or drive that can run in velocity mode)
[00:17:48] <andypugh> Anyway, time to call it a day. Night all.
[00:18:02] <PCW> 'Night Andy
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[00:18:37] <generic_nick|2> ok there is no mention of velocity or torque mode in the drive manual from what i can tell so i guess they're velocity mode.
[00:18:42] <PCW> So for velocity mode drives you adjust FF1 for minimum error during slew
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[00:19:01] <PCW> (see JTs tutorial)
[00:19:40] <generic_nick|2> cool ill play with it some.
[00:19:50] <generic_nick|2> and check out the manual. thanks
[00:20:08] <PCW> without FF1 the drive will always be behind the commanded position when in motion
[00:20:12] <generic_nick|2> i just got my drives and motors swapped out for these ones.
[00:20:19] <generic_nick|2> interesting
[00:20:46] <generic_nick|2> i get really good acceleration but i guess i am a little low on velocity
[00:21:17] <PCW> too much and you will lead position when in motion, and too little you will lag position
[00:21:40] <generic_nick|2> good to know.
[00:22:00] <generic_nick|2> if i can get more velocity out of these motors i will be pretty happy
[00:22:16] <ssi> PCW: somewhere around 0.1 or 0.12 FF2 is pretty good
[00:22:23] <ssi> PCW: any more than that and I get a bang on start and stop
[00:22:37] <generic_nick|2> even happier if i could find the prox sensors i had kicking around
[00:22:37] <ssi> as it sits right now, there's a little burble in the error at teh end of the move
[00:22:40] <ssi> but nothing major
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[00:23:24] <ssi> well, maybe more major than it should be
[00:23:30] <ssi> on the order of +/-0.0015"
[00:24:22] <ssi> it looks like it rings on decel
[00:24:28] <L84Supper> http://tinyurl.com/cz9wdrw anyone ever use the Aerotech linear motors?
[00:24:32] <PCW> what acceleration
[00:24:50] <ssi> 20
[00:24:58] <ssi> I guess that's in/sec/sec?
[00:25:47] <ssi> https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BJDx3ZHCQAAGnNj.jpg:large
[00:25:56] <ssi> that's the ring at teh end of the move
[00:26:40] <PCW> may need to adjust D/P ratio
[00:26:43] <ssi> if I turn up FF2 a little bit, I get a much bigger peak, but fewer rings
[00:28:26] <PCW> if you add D does the ringing get better or worse?
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[00:30:15] <ssi> does oscillating count as worse? :D
[00:30:23] <ssi> I'm monkeynig with it all right now, getting closer
[00:32:42] <PCW> L84Supper: does that motor even have the linearbearings?
[00:35:59] <L84Supper> PCW: yeah, air bearing on the forcer
[00:36:48] <L84Supper> oh no, thats for cooling
[00:37:34] <L84Supper> BYOAB bring yer own air bearing
[00:37:44] <ssi> PCW: my accel error looks pretty good; is there any way for me to dial out the static following error during moves?
[00:38:16] <PCW> you can try some FF1 first
[00:38:34] <ssi> I think this machine might have rough spots on its ways
[00:38:47] <ssi> during a fast move, it shudders and the error gets bigger
[00:38:50] <ssi> in certain spots
[00:39:05] <ssi> the owners told me they had someone polish the gibs because they were rusty from water based coolant
[00:39:37] <Valen> could be screws too
[00:40:01] <ssi> I've got it jogging 120ipm pretty nicely tho
[00:40:06] <PCW> how does it feel by hand
[00:40:52] <ssi> fine
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[00:41:01] <ssi> Valen: I don't see the screw whipping at speed
[00:41:05] <ssi> it's a pretty big screw too
[00:41:06] <ssi> 30mm maybe
[00:41:32] <PCW> You can plot the rough spots with the PID output over a full range motion at constant speed (required torque to move)
[00:41:46] <Valen> it could be sloppy i mean
[00:43:57] <ssi> well I was trying to take a video
[00:43:59] <ssi> but my phone died :(
[00:44:14] <ssi> so I think it's tuned enough for this evening anyway
[00:44:24] <ssi> next thing I need to worry about is homing
[00:44:31] <PCW> If you are fairly happy with the tuning you can add some I term (beware, too much I term will cause wild oscillations so have a reasonable ferror)
[00:44:34] <ssi> I have limits working, but there are no home switches, so I'll need to use limits as home
[00:45:31] <PCW> It only had limits?
[00:47:09] <PCW> anyway bbl
[00:48:29] <ssi> yeah only limits
[00:48:56] <ssi> which sucks cause I'll need to home at one end of the table
[00:48:59] <ssi> I wonder how they used to home it
[00:50:39] <PCW> What machine is this?
[00:50:52] <ssi> it's an Atrump knee mill that was centroid-converted in the early 90s
[00:52:31] <PCW> OK so thats why it has the handles
[00:52:38] <ssi> yep
[00:53:19] <PCW> really bbl
[00:53:26] <ssi> :)
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[00:55:27] <generic_nick|2> ssi a simple reed switch works
[00:55:48] <generic_nick|2> limit switch works too.
[00:56:14] <generic_nick|2> i have mine so it homes on the limit switch. just have it index latch in the opposite direction
[00:56:18] <Valen> you can home to limit
[00:56:34] <Valen> to be honest we have run our mill for ages without home or limits ;->
[00:56:47] <Valen> we still don't have limits but I have homing now at least lol
[00:57:54] <generic_nick|2> same here valen
[00:58:17] <generic_nick|2> my mill is too big and the servos too weak to do any real damage lol
[00:58:44] <ssi> my limits on my hnc are awesome
[00:58:49] <ssi> it holds amazing tolerances
[00:59:26] <generic_nick|2> i dont know what limits have to do with tolerances lol
[01:00:16] <generic_nick|2> the hnc just has microswitches for limits i believe
[01:00:38] <ssi> on a lathe it has everything to do with tolerances
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[01:00:49] <generic_nick|2> and a prox switch
[01:00:55] <ssi> it's all prox switches
[01:00:58] <ssi> but there's three per axis
[01:01:15] <generic_nick|2> that has little to do with tolerances
[01:01:27] <ssi> ok fine you win
[01:02:49] <generic_nick|2> it uses the resolver for homing accuracy if thats what you mean
[01:03:24] <generic_nick|2> the prox switches help by telling it when it's time to latch, but thats about it
[01:03:44] <ssi> there's a prox in the gear as well
[01:03:50] <ssi> because there's multiple resolver indices per rev
[01:04:14] <generic_nick|2> right, that's so it knows when to use the resolver
[01:04:58] <ssi> without accurate homing, it's practically impossible to use a lathe effectively
[01:05:01] <ssi> is what I meant
[01:05:06] <ssi> mills don't really care as much unless you fixture
[01:06:31] <generic_nick|2> i fixture on the lathe too
[01:07:22] <ssi> everything on the lathe is "fixtured"
[01:07:23] <ssi> at least in X
[01:08:22] <generic_nick|2> i was just a bit confused what you meant, after you home the machine should be using soft limits so i always considered them just as failsafes.
[01:09:16] <generic_nick|2> was wondering why you relied on limit switches for accuracy. didnt know you meant for homing
[01:09:22] <ssi> what I meant was homing repeatability == diameter tolerance repeatability
[01:09:29] <ssi> and my hnc homes very accurately
[01:09:54] <generic_nick|2> yep, they are good for that.
[01:10:13] <generic_nick|2> the gear reduction for the resolver helps
[01:10:24] <generic_nick|2> tons of "counts" per rev
[01:11:02] <generic_nick|2> assuming you have the stock setup i guess
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[01:12:51] <generic_nick|2> great little machine, it's the perfect size for a garage shop
[01:14:39] <generic_nick|2> hmmm i wonder if this pulley i welded is steel or iron. looks completely machined, no cast surfaces anywhere.
[01:14:53] <generic_nick|2> guess we'll find out once it cools.
[01:15:20] <generic_nick|2> cracks will be a dead givaway :)
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[02:29:51] <ssi> ooo
[02:29:55] <ssi> my beagleboard black came in
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[02:51:43] <r00t4rd3d> hah, they made my cnc thread at cnczone a stickey :)
[02:52:06] <r00t4rd3d> http://www.cnczone.com/forums/diy_cnc_router_table_machines/
[02:52:45] <ssi> lol nice
[02:53:01] <ssi> my mill conversion is pretty much done, hooray
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[06:27:38] <Real-Genius> omg
[06:27:43] <ssi> ?
[06:27:50] <Real-Genius> I just moved my entire shop to another shop
[06:27:56] Real-Genius is now known as GammaX
[06:27:59] <ssi> meta
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[06:28:21] <GammaX> worst experience ofmy life
[06:28:30] <GammaX> all done with a uhaul trailer and a 2 ton engine hoist!
[06:28:36] <ssi> lol
[06:28:45] <GammaX> still have more tomorow but all the small stuff... tv, benches etc.
[06:28:48] <GammaX> NEVER AGAIN!
[06:29:03] <ssi> I loaded my hardinge on a car trailer using a come-along, some plywood, and some iron pipes
[06:29:14] <ssi> and the car trailer had a hole in the center almost exactly the size of the lathe footprint
[06:29:22] <GammaX> lol
[06:29:28] <ssi> in the snow
[06:29:31] <ssi> in connecticut
[06:29:31] <ssi> :(
[06:29:44] <GammaX> my hardinge almost tipped over onto this old guy passing buy trying to help out
[06:29:58] <GammaX> by*
[06:30:06] <ssi> https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/420990_804691220892_829481504_n.jpg
[06:30:25] <GammaX> ahhh you got a nice one
[06:30:35] <ssi> https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/427408_807072982822_1924530467_n.jpg
[06:30:38] <ssi> :D
[06:31:25] <GammaX> ssi please donmt tell me thats the control for the cnc? Im hoping thats some crazy german furnice of some sort.
[06:31:33] <GammaX> or the doomsday device
[06:31:34] <ssi> that's the control alright
[06:31:40] <GammaX> jesus!
[06:32:07] <ssi> https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-frc1/457609_811175785772_1274608115_o.jpg
[06:32:13] <ssi> https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/431058_808115768072_823586676_n.jpg
[06:32:18] <ssi> that's before I gutted it :)
[06:32:24] <GammaX> HAHAHAHAHA
[06:32:26] <GammaX> wtf is that!
[06:32:31] <ssi> wire wrap :)
[06:32:37] <GammaX> my anilam is 1/3 the size and nothing inside it!
[06:32:46] <ssi> it also wasn't make in 1978
[06:32:54] <GammaX> ahhhh
[06:32:57] <GammaX> myne was 90
[06:33:15] <ssi> https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-snc7/602282_943891222972_534749199_n.jpg
[06:33:19] <ssi> https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/148428_943869975552_976247942_n.jpg
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[06:46:49] <ssi> so I got that mill conversion mostly done
[06:46:56] <ssi> https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-frc3/473086_10100131793347582_2132713241_o.jpg
[06:47:01] <ssi> https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/459136_10100131793367542_829866394_o.jpg
[06:47:11] <ssi> X/Y are tuned pretty well
[06:47:18] <ssi> runs 120ipm reasonably
[06:47:25] <ssi> limits and homing set up
[06:47:46] <ssi> the third drive came in today as well, so next time I run down there (probably wednesday) I can install it and tune the Z axis
[06:48:56] <GammaX> ssi awsome!
[06:50:34] <GammaX> I gotta find schematics for the anilam controller.... then I can add linux cnc once I get some mesa cards....
[06:50:51] <GammaX> and a collet holder... and my gang tool holder... and tooling..
[06:51:46] <Tecan> calm your tits
[06:52:15] <Tecan> just sit back and have a stiff one while pondering the intracacy's of the universe
[06:52:31] <GammaX> that was 5mins ago
[06:52:35] <Tecan> o
[06:54:33] <GammaX> ssi one thing I forgot to add that may beet you in regards to the shop move... I crashed my motorcycle yesterday and i can barely get into my truck! lol
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[06:57:56] <ssi> that's no fun
[06:58:13] <ssi> last time I crashed a motorcycle I spent six weeks in the hospital
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[06:58:24] <GammaX> ouch
[07:01:05] <ssi> I'm digging into what it'll take to get linuxcnc running on beaglebone black
[07:02:06] <GammaX> no idea what that is
[07:02:39] <ssi> http://www.adafruit.com/blog/2013/04/26/new-product-beaglebone-black/
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[07:07:05] <Loetmichel> mornin'
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[08:00:40] <Valen00> jef79m, you the one with the quad copter?
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[08:07:24] <ReadError> him and Bojangles
[08:07:34] <UncleG> Mornin
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[08:29:06] <Bojangles> whut
[08:29:16] <Bojangles> oh right
[08:29:22] <Bojangles> jef79m:
[08:29:51] <Bojangles> Did you look at the files Valen00 ?
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[08:36:14] <Valen00> yes looking at them now
[08:36:35] <Valen00> we can make it, but the setup and the like will probably mean getting it from USA would be cheaper
[08:37:08] <Valen00> talking with russell now, niether of us like the idea of making a quad out of sheets of stuff
[08:37:25] <Valen00> make a real one out of 3d carbon fibre ;-> do it right
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[08:37:56] <Valen00> if you wanted 10 sets it becomes more economical
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[08:40:27] <Valen00> Bojangles,
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[08:58:11] <jef79m> back now.
[08:58:33] <jef79m> Valen00.. oh that doesnt sound so good.
[09:02:37] <Valen00> $100 or so is about an hour of workshop time, we'd need to create gcode, jigs etc
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[09:05:29] <ReadError> Valen00: CF isnt always better
[09:05:31] <ReadError> i do both
[09:06:35] <Valen00> not always, but for stiff and light CF is generally good
[09:06:41] <Valen00> if you do it right
[09:08:00] <ReadError> CF is very expensive too
[09:10:43] <Valen00> yes and no
[09:10:53] <Valen00> $40 a square meter last I checked
[09:11:04] <Valen00> which is expensive compared to glass
[09:11:27] <Valen00> but if it means your whatsit is half the weight well it can be good
[09:11:42] <Valen00> <- has been around composites for ~30 years
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[09:14:21] <jef79m> doesnt CF have repurcussions for FPV, like blocking rf etc?
[09:14:28] <ReadError> yea
[09:14:39] <ReadError> $40 for a square meter of sheet?
[09:14:39] <Valen00> could do, its not *that* bad
[09:14:46] <ReadError> or cloth
[09:14:50] <Valen00> cloth
[09:15:30] <Valen00> its something like 20 ohms a meter so its an attenuator of RF not an outright block
[09:16:12] <ReadError> but to build something suitable out of cloth, would be fairly expensive
[09:17:48] <Valen00> you wouldnt need more than one or two layers if you get a decent amount of 3d shape
[09:19:45] <Valen00> anyway dinner time
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[09:29:59] <Bojangles> sooo too expensive?
[09:30:17] <ReadError> i dont think 2 layers of CF on a mold would be very strong
[09:31:24] <Bojangles> no offense to him, but he seems to think what we're trying to do is untested and doesn't work?
[09:31:37] <Bojangles> or at least isn't a very good way of doing it
[09:32:45] <jef79m> my email to him tonight referenced chatchs website so he knew exactly what he was aiming for...
[09:33:10] <Bojangles> jef79m: did he give you a ballpark figure at all?
[09:33:18] <Bojangles> or just that ordering from us was cheaper
[09:33:21] <jef79m> not yet.
[09:33:25] <Bojangles> kk
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[11:04:58] <mrsun> hmm the mechmate does have bearings to hold down the gantry etc right? :) got the V bearings and oposite roller bearings to keep preasure on the rails? :)
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[11:06:32] <Valen> think an 8 core dell server would have good latency?
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[11:10:38] <skunkworks> 42
[11:13:14] <Valen> I had a dual xeon desktop board, it still has the lowest latency crown
[11:13:19] <Valen> but lightning eated it
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[11:53:56] <r00t4rd3d> ReadError,
http://www.cnczone.com/forums/diy_cnc_router_table_machines/
[11:54:09] <r00t4rd3d> my thread got stickied :)
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[11:55:09] <ReadError> wheres the new pics?
[11:55:27] <r00t4rd3d> dont have none yet
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[11:55:43] <r00t4rd3d> still waiting on parts
[11:56:46] <r00t4rd3d> i got 80% of my new gantry done. Its just as wide as my current machine is long and its heavier then my entire assembled machine .
[11:58:25] <r00t4rd3d> and it doesnt even have all the parts on it yet like a router and motor, screw
[11:58:57] <r00t4rd3d> bearing blocks and thrust washers should be here tomorrow
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[11:59:16] <jthornton> any photos?
[11:59:31] <r00t4rd3d> gotta take out a loan for a 3', 5 start acme screw
[11:59:45] <r00t4rd3d> not yet jt, soon
[12:01:11] <r00t4rd3d> i wanna get some stuff completed before I start upload pics
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[12:03:27] <jdh> you can get a 3ft chinese ballscrew with no loan
[12:03:39] <r00t4rd3d> no cheap parts on this one
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[12:04:56] <jdh> is a chinese ballscrew inherently worse than a chinese acme screw?
[12:06:31] <r00t4rd3d> they are not that much for 5s acme, I just need 3 of them
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[12:08:01] <r00t4rd3d> my current machine i got 1 threaded rod from the hardware store and cutt all the screws I needed out of it :)
[12:08:15] <r00t4rd3d> was like 10 bucks
[12:08:32] <jdh> sounds slow
[12:08:37] <r00t4rd3d> 18ipm
[12:09:11] <r00t4rd3d> my reason for going with 5s
[12:11:38] <r00t4rd3d> my gaol is 600ipm or better on this one
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[12:35:26] <DJ9DJ> tag
[12:35:32] <jdh> you're it.
[12:35:53] <DJ9DJ> hi
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[12:41:20] <skunkworks> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lIjrwBpEduY
[12:43:25] <jthornton> spot drilling and all..
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[12:44:39] <skunkworks> This is cool..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MoadFewMlzA
[12:48:24] <jthornton> mullernick videos are cool
[12:48:47] <skunkworks> yes - He does some wicked casting too
[12:50:41] <archivist> someone needs to show hib
[12:51:05] <archivist> him a sliding head cutting long thin parts :)
[12:51:39] <skunkworks> I had posted this yesterday.. this seems like interesting timing...
http://www.cnczone.com/forums/product_announcements_manufacturer_news/126952-mycnc_-_computer-numeric-control_control_software-3.html#post1263454
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[13:11:41] <mrsun> heh crude division aparatus made ... rod that goes to the spindle back gear :P
[13:11:44] <mrsun> yeah! :P
[13:11:48] <mrsun> archivist, hey!
[13:11:54] <mrsun> you were a gear monger right? :)
[13:12:11] <archivist> mebe
[13:13:52] <rob_h> here a wicked sliding head vid what you can do with dual controls,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hjVXbEUZJJs
[13:14:31] <mrsun> archivist, =) do you know anything about timing pulleys? nameley T5 pulleys ...the teeth got 20 degree angles, but a cutting tool for a timing pulley does that have the same form tool for all sizes of pulley? :)
[13:17:52] <archivist> rob_h, I love watching those in the flesh at the shows
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[13:18:28] <skunkworks> rob_h, did you see
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zk_KiWrhi5Y
[13:18:30] <rob_h> yea takes a good programer to get things working smooth like that
[13:18:34] <archivist> mrsun, I do believe you can hob the form which means one cutter all sizes
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[13:19:03] <rob_h> i nearly finished clearing that little sliding head out i got, PTFE every dam where... horable, should known better when it said only made plastic parts
[13:19:04] <archivist> I do like the drilling during screw cutting
[13:19:08] <mrsun> archivist, well im going to make a single point and do not have a hob ? :)
[13:19:30] <rob_h> yea i had seen it me and michale have talked quite abit about things too
[13:20:20] <archivist> mrsun, you can generate with with a single tooth cutter just takes more programming
[13:20:52] <archivist> else you need to make the form for each size
[13:20:58] <mrsun> but does the actual tooth change form depending on the pulley radius ? :)
[13:21:43] <rob_h> archivist, had u seen this ,.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Brown-Sharp-Star-SNC-10-CNC-Lathe-/321094688932?pt=UK_Home_Garden_PowerTools_SM&hash=item4ac2bc20a4
[13:21:45] <archivist> yes, look at how the form changes when you bend the belt
[13:22:28] <archivist> ew 3K far too much for me
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[13:23:14] <archivist> I need to get funds to add cnc to my Bechler
[13:25:45] <rob_h> well lunch over here now better go make some more chips
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[13:26:40] <mrsun> archivist, hmm i cant see any change in the tooth form of the belt when i bend it :P
[13:27:29] <carper64_lb> thats the thing is funds ive searched the net for years lookng for money trees but no luck uuuuuup to now
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[13:40:19] <mrsun> hmm with a 24 tooth gear, what divisions can i make ? 24, 12, 8, 4, 2, 1 ?:)
[13:41:51] <carper64_lb> forgot 6
[13:41:56] <mrsun> ahh yes
[13:43:07] <archivist> make a vernier device to engage then almost any number
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[13:49:58] <carper64_lb> ive just droped a box of 150 drill bits 0.4mm -3.0mm
[13:50:50] <r00t4rd3d> ebay - slightly used.
[13:51:34] <carper64_lb> yep box is empty lol
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[15:17:30] <Tom_itx> get a magnet
[15:20:10] <syyl_ws_> then you have a lot of unsorted, magnetised drill bits :D
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[15:25:00] <JT-Shop> yuck I hate magnetic drill bits
[15:25:23] <jdh> and clingy women
[15:25:41] <Tom_itx> .4mm would be hard to find if you dropped a box full
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[15:26:04] <ssi> usually bits that small have 1/8 shanks
[15:26:12] <ssi> or 3mm rather maybe :)
[15:27:09] <syyl_ws_> ah .4mm carbide drill bit that drops is more likely to be broken...
[15:29:15] <syyl_ws_> i know that from first hand experience with my .4mm endmills :D
[15:29:28] <ssi> yep
[15:30:01] <Tom_itx> JT-Shop, i kinda like having both cycle times displayed
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[15:33:59] <ssi> oh
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[15:39:28] <r00t4rd3d> they put the first website back online
[15:39:30] <r00t4rd3d> http://info.cern.ch/hypertext/WWW/TheProject.html
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[15:39:43] <r00t4rd3d> and its currently getting DDOS from interest lol
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[16:19:17] <generic_nick|2> i noticed if the power goes out while the machine is in motion, you loose all your work offsets.
[16:19:56] <generic_nick|2> i just lost every work offset i had when a breaker popped.
[16:20:12] <ssi> :(
[16:20:40] <generic_nick|2> not sure if this is a glitch, or even fixable, but i thought i'd mention it.
[16:21:00] <generic_nick|2> it has happened with 2 different machines so i know it isnt an issue with the computer
[16:21:48] <generic_nick|2> all work offsets go to home position (machine 0,0,0) when this happens
[16:22:17] <ssi> is there away to tell who wrote something on the linuxcnc wiki?
[16:23:14] <generic_nick|2> no clue
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[16:31:50] <r00t4rd3d> http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=c32_1367332518
[16:31:56] <r00t4rd3d> holy fuck!
[16:32:12] <r00t4rd3d> most epic plane crash ive ever seen
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[16:40:39] <ssi> departure stall
[16:40:43] <ssi> srs one
[16:40:43] <ssi> heh
[16:41:00] <ssi> must have had a hydraulic failure or something
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[16:43:59] <IchGuckLive> hi all B)
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[16:53:46] <ssi> soc stuff is harder than it oughta be
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[17:16:19] <WalterN> L84Supper:
http://www.sintecoptronics.com/scanlens.asp $4,000 for the f-theta lens I want
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[17:19:12] <IchGuckLive> WalterN: laser first lightning ?
[17:19:40] <WalterN> ..?
[17:19:57] <IchGuckLive> did you already fire the tube
[17:22:23] <WalterN> what tube?
[17:22:34] <ssi> IM FIRIN MAH LAZER
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[17:53:21] <mrsun> ffs why is there so little info on making timing pulleys :/
[17:54:03] <IchGuckLive> cause they are cheep to buy
[17:54:25] <mrsun> not when you do not have any money :P
[17:54:50] <pcw_home> Did you see andypughs video of hobbing one?
[17:56:15] <TekniQue> I've made them myself
[17:56:32] <archivist> you have to buy a hob to do that though
[17:56:45] <TekniQue> just using information from Gates about the tooth shape
[17:56:54] <TekniQue> and a bit of CAD work
[17:57:08] <TekniQue> then water jet the shape
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[17:58:24] <ssi> if you have the technology to make pulleys,
[17:58:31] <ssi> you have the technology to make things to sell to people for money
[17:58:33] <ssi> and then buy pulleys :D
[17:58:44] <IchGuckLive> AH
[17:58:58] <IchGuckLive> its cheeper to buy pulleys first
[17:59:30] <TekniQue> the exception is custom ratios
[17:59:43] <TekniQue> the pulleys only come in a certain number of different sizes
[18:00:05] <IchGuckLive> TekniQue: wrong suppler
[18:00:05] <TekniQue> if you want a non-standard number of teeth you pretty much have to make your own
[18:00:25] <IchGuckLive> or recalculate your mashine
[18:01:32] <TekniQue> true
[18:02:27] <IchGuckLive> TekniQue: Europ ?
[18:02:57] <TekniQue> yes
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[18:03:40] <JesusAlos> hi
[18:04:36] <IchGuckLive> hi
[18:04:39] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: Did you ever get/make any electric matches?
[18:13:31] <JesusAlos> I'm looking for a chinese drive and stepper motor supplier
[18:14:03] <IchGuckLive> zhere are lots in spaiun
[18:14:27] <IchGuckLive> or in the UK
[18:15:09] <mrsun> TekniQue, so gimme some info, does the cutter change from pulley to pullet in size etc =)
[18:15:16] <mrsun> ahh water jet ..
[18:15:17] <mrsun> cheating
[18:15:19] <mrsun> :P
[18:15:19] <JesusAlos> in china country
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[18:17:28] <IchGuckLive> JesusAlos: long motors is a kealing dealer
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[18:18:50] <andypugh> mrsun: Send me blanks, I can put teeth on. As long as you want T-5
[18:19:13] <IchGuckLive> im off by
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[18:20:07] <JesusAlos> by
[18:20:18] <andypugh> mrsun: When hobbing a gear the cutter is always the same. I am not sure with a belt, it sort-of feels like the hob will make a distorted shape with small pulleys.
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[18:22:46] <JesusAlos> eny wireless CNC handwheel linuxcnc compatible?
[18:23:45] <Tom_itx> wireless on cnc is a bad idea imo
[18:24:02] <JesusAlos> an cable?
[18:24:09] <JesusAlos> wire
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[18:25:56] <TekniQue> 18:15:09 < mrsun> TekniQue, so gimme some info, does the cutter change from pulley to pullet in size etc =)
[18:26:01] <TekniQue> yes the shape changes a bit
[18:26:10] <TekniQue> but it can still all be done by the same tool
[18:26:38] <TekniQue> it's just that when you bent a cogged belt, the space between the cogs becomes narrower
[18:38:58] <andypugh> JesusAlos: Any MPG will work.
[18:39:10] <andypugh> Or are you wanting a complete pendant?
[18:39:37] <r00t4rd3d> Vietnamese lambo
http://i.imgur.com/o7nutuF.jpg
[18:40:29] <JesusAlos> yes, complet pendant
[18:40:30] <syyl_> below the sheetmetal is a mule instead of a motor...
[18:41:20] <Nick001-Shop> < mrsun> T5mm pulleys 10-21 Teeth is one hob and 21 T &up is another hob. Just looked at my hobs. The angle and shape changes for every tooth #
[18:41:46] <JT-Shop> Jymmm: no
[18:41:47] <andypugh> JesusAlos: This one will work, as it is all separate wires:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Universal-CNC-4-Axis-MPG-manual-pulse-generator-Pendant-encoder-fr-Siemens-FAGOR-/261182593565?pt=UK_BOI_Industrial_Automation_Control_ET&hash=item3ccfb21a1d
[18:42:03] <L84Supper> WalterN: try getting the glavos going without the f-theta lens, they only cost <$150, the laser spot changing from a circle to an ellipse near the edges might not even be an issue for you
[18:42:08] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: Did you still want some?
[18:42:27] <JesusAlos> don't run by usb?
[18:42:27] <andypugh> JesusAlos: There was a guy on the forums with one of these:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/CNC-3-axis-wireless-MPG-Pendant-handwheel-Controller-for-Mach-3-engraving-Router-/251244444228?pt=UK_Computing_Other_Computing_Networking&hash=item3a7f55fa44
[18:42:43] <JesusAlos> ah wireless
[18:42:43] <JT-Shop> naw, we only shoot the cannons every now and then
[18:42:48] <JesusAlos> with linuxcnc?
[18:42:52] <andypugh> And parts of it work fine, but the LCD remains a mystery.
[18:43:53] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: Ok
[18:44:06] <WalterN> L84Supper: oh, so focus the beam to as small of a column as possible before it goes into the galvos?
[18:44:54] <L84Supper> WalterN: collimate the beam
[18:45:13] <WalterN> yeah
[18:45:17] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: Just curious, is 2.5 seconds long enough to fire the cannon?
[18:45:57] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: or would 1.25 be ok?
[18:46:16] <L84Supper> WalterN: if you had mirrors moving on an X and Y axis you'd want the beam collimated as well
[18:46:17] <WalterN> L84Supper: I emailed a different company to see how well f-theta lens would work thats designed for a different wavelength... might be good enough
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[18:46:45] <L84Supper> WalterN: whats the output power from your laser?
[18:46:50] <WalterN> 30 watts
[18:47:01] <andypugh> JesusAlos:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Handwheel-USB-MPG-Pendant-for-CNC-Mac-Mach-3-4-axis-Engraving-Router-Machine-l-/251267733331?pt=UK_ToysGames_RadioControlled_JN&hash=item3a80b95753 is a wired version, but it would need a special driver writing to use the LCD, I think.
[18:47:33] <andypugh> JesusAlos: I think that building your own around a 7i73 might be more satisfactory.
[18:47:37] <L84Supper> WalterN: that one you mentioned the other day was only what 10-15% loss at 808nm?
[18:47:46] <JT-Shop> Jymmm: we cut about 6" of fuse and it burns 2.5 seconds/inch, so part of it is in the powder so about 5-7 seconds before the boom
[18:47:47] <WalterN> 12% yeah
[18:47:54] <WalterN> from thor-labs
[18:47:59] <JesusAlos> but is for stepper control
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[18:48:06] <JesusAlos> is other machines
[18:48:10] <WalterN> but I emailed a different company that has more selection
[18:48:22] <L84Supper> thats 3-4.5W lost in the lens as heat, just use a fan
[18:49:01] <WalterN> after all the optics, I'd rather not be losing 15% of power
[18:49:27] <L84Supper> you might not even care about the spot becoming an ellipse without the lens
[18:50:00] <WalterN> if the collimated beam is small enough, probably not
[18:50:09] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: is this just gun powder you are igniting?
[18:50:40] <L84Supper> bbl
[18:50:45] <WalterN> L84Supper: how small could I reasonably get the beam anyway?
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[18:51:05] <L84Supper> WalterN: whats the inner dia of the fiber?
[18:51:23] <WalterN> NA is 1.6 I think
[18:51:32] <L84Supper> um?
[18:51:40] <WalterN> fiber thickness?
[18:51:42] <WalterN> uh
[18:51:58] <WalterN> 400?
[18:52:16] <L84Supper> WalterN: i forget the part number, it's in the spec
[18:52:21] <andypugh> Why does JesusAlos think that an MPG would be stepper-specific?
[18:52:23] <WalterN> yeah
[18:52:33] <WalterN> L84Supper: lets say its 500
[18:53:42] <L84Supper> with the least amount of optics that could be the spot size
[18:54:13] <WalterN> oh
[18:54:50] <L84Supper> http://www.edmundoptics.com/learning-and-support/technical/learning-center/eo-tech-tools/index.cfm?techtoolid=7
[18:54:58] <WalterN> so you dont have to focus it down to a point then just after the point expand it to collimate the beam?
[18:55:03] <L84Supper> more reading is required on your part :)
[18:55:54] <JT-Shop> Jymmm: no it is single F black powder
[18:55:58] <L84Supper> depends on what you want to do, have to run, there's lots of websites that explain howto do this
[18:56:18] <WalterN> yeha
[18:56:59] <L84Supper> http://www.edmundoptics.com/learning-and-support/technical/learning-center/application-notes/index.cfm?categoryid=21&sort=alpha
[18:58:11] <WalterN> its 600
[18:58:18] <WalterN> anyway
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[19:04:43] <JesusAlos> no body wath real madrid VS borussia dortmund
[19:04:57] -!- morfic- [morfic-!~morfic@unaffiliated/morfic] has joined #linuxcnc
[19:05:25] <JesusAlos> ?
[19:05:40] <JT-Shop> ?
[19:05:59] <jdh> ?
[19:06:46] <ProxDem> say what?
[19:10:14] <JesusAlos> http://www.realmadrid.com/cs/Satellite/en/Home.htm
[19:10:45] <JesusAlos> football
[19:11:20] <JesusAlos> champions league
[19:12:18] <JesusAlos> is Europe football league
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[19:18:42] <Loetmichel> jef79m: football is an nuninteresting game for me
[19:18:55] <Loetmichel> even when its germans against spain
[19:19:05] <Loetmichel> sorry, i meant JesusAlos
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[19:37:21] <JesusAlos> :)
[19:40:30] <JesusAlos> http://gallopintonews.blogspot.com.es/2012/06/platini-vaticina-una-final-espana.html
[19:41:03] <andypugh> JesusAlos: Why do you think those mpgs were for stepper systems?
[19:42:39] <JesusAlos> don't run in stepper system?
[19:43:13] <andypugh> They should all work either system
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[19:44:53] <JesusAlos> ok
[19:44:54] <JesusAlos> thank
[19:45:50] <JesusAlos> eny reference to configure z axis cero tool
[19:50:12] <andypugh> I don't think I understand the question
[19:51:21] <JesusAlos> I don't say in english
[19:51:41] <JesusAlos> is a swith for probe the lengh of tools
[19:51:54] <JesusAlos> swithc in the table
[19:51:59] <JesusAlos> you know?
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[19:57:00] <ProxDem> anybody have any good read on kinematics for adjusting an axis sag?
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[20:03:03] <Jymmm> bigger axis
[20:03:25] <JesusAlos> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DM3l5yXAgx8
[20:03:26] <Tecan> (DM3l5yXAgx8) "catia dmu kinematics" by "yotomadaniel" is "Education" - Length: 0:01:07
[20:03:33] <JesusAlos> CATIA
[20:04:48] <andypugh> ProxDem: I may be about to submit just the component you need. It could be used to create a Z-correction based on X-position.
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[20:16:36] <ProxDem> andypugh: that would be very very awesome =)
[20:16:52] <ProxDem> andypugh: via kinematics?
[20:17:25] <andypugh> No, just adding a value from a lookup table.
[20:17:41] <andypugh> You might find that probekins suits your situation too.
[20:18:02] <andypugh> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?ProbeKins
[20:18:26] <andypugh> You don't _need_ to use a probe, you could hand-write the correction mesh.
[20:18:46] <ProxDem> andypugh: I thought probekins (uses triangular data)
[20:19:12] <ProxDem> andypugh: A sample example of a few points with only the X axis moving is what I couldn't find =(
[20:19:14] <andypugh> Yes. And?
[20:19:59] <ProxDem> andypugh: right now I have no correct surface to scan (as trying to level the bed is what showed me the sagging issue lol
[20:20:21] <ProxDem> are you suggesting I create triangular data based simply on the x axis sag?
[20:20:25] <andypugh> Hand write a simulated probe grid, then probe2stl it.
[20:21:40] <andypugh> Just duplicate a set of X values and associated Z offsets at the Y limits
[20:22:10] <andypugh> (Fixing the machine would be bettter)
[20:22:20] <ProxDem> unfortunetly that is not possible at this time =(
[20:24:59] <ssi> any of you folks SoC kernel hackers? :D
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[20:28:53] <ProxDem> andypugh: thank you for your time and insights =)
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[20:29:32] <andypugh> You get the idea of just using the same X/Z data at two different Y values?
[20:30:03] <mrsun> TekniQue, Nick001-Shop hmm ok =) that sucks =)
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[20:33:55] <JesusAlos> gol
[20:34:00] <ProxDem> andypugh: yes As soon as you said Yes. And?...I responded with are you suggesting I create a triangular data based simply on the x axis sag =)
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[20:34:13] <JesusAlos> 2-0
[20:34:32] <ProxDem> it was so obvious but it took your Yes. And? to make me think about it lol
[20:35:16] <JesusAlos> Benzema
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[20:37:17] <ProxDem> andypugh: again thank you =)
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[20:42:15] <skunkworks> poor nick got shut down.. I don't think he was name calling - but I might be biased.. I think the moderator didn't understand what was going on.
[20:42:19] <skunkworks> http://www.homemodelenginemachinist.com/f38/whats-more-popular-mach3-linuxcnc-18546/
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[20:43:25] <JesusAlos> what kind of kins use probekins?
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[20:47:49] <andypugh> JesusAlos: Probekins _is_ a kins, but it replaces trivkins.
[20:49:29] <JesusAlos> this seems a mouthful
[20:49:41] <ProxDem> lol
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[20:49:49] <JesusAlos> I'm not sure undestand
[20:49:57] <ProxDem> it's very usefull for warped pcb milling
[20:50:03] <ProxDem> and tons of other stuff
[20:50:05] <JesusAlos> there must use aphisical sensor?
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[20:51:44] <Tuipveus> falle ralle ra
[20:52:47] <ProxDem> JesusAlos: yes...a probe...thus the name probekins (for probing kinematics)
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[20:53:20] <andypugh> JesusAlos: It is designed to allow you to probe the surface with a physical sensor (or laser, I guess) but you can actually create the correction mesh any way you want.
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[20:53:54] <JesusAlos> I thinking...
[20:53:59] <JesusAlos> is very interesting
[20:54:25] <JesusAlos> there a a way to scaner the surface like a 3D scaner?
[20:54:55] <JesusAlos> I mean?
[20:56:32] <JesusAlos> is like record the surface geometry, then use this to replicate the geometry in other surface
[20:58:48] <Tuipveus> I thought that sumpfralle would know "Ulle dulle doff, kinkelade koff"
[21:01:22] <ssi> sigh
[21:01:25] <ssi> IRC is mostly so terrible
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[21:06:52] <DJ9DJ> gn8
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[21:52:41] <gabewillen> So im about done with a completely re-wrote hal
[21:53:10] <andypugh> How do you mean?
[21:53:11] <gabewillen> i have been working non-stop on it for the past month
[21:53:32] <gabewillen> i needed to implement linuxcnc and an arm based processor
[21:53:38] <andypugh> As in, a different sort of HAL?
[21:53:42] <gabewillen> yes
[21:54:01] <andypugh> Have you been following the developments elsewhere?
[21:54:08] <gabewillen> no
[21:55:07] <andypugh> http://news.gmane.org/gmane.linux.distributions.emc.devel
[21:56:53] <gabewillen> I have it working on a cortex-m3
[21:57:37] <gabewillen> i was thinking about making a branch called OSACS, open sourced automation control system
[21:57:50] <gabewillen> geared more towards non-standard use of lcnc
[21:57:55] <gabewillen> what i tend to use it for
[21:58:00] <andypugh> There are already mainline-ish versions for BeagleBone and Raspberry Pi
[21:58:51] <gabewillen> I knew that, but this isn't geared as a replacement to the pc
[21:59:11] <gabewillen> simply an extension like mesa or pluto
[21:59:12] <andypugh> I am trying to find the message..
[21:59:24] <gabewillen> handles all of the real time functions
[21:59:50] <zultron> gabewillen, any links to your work?
[22:00:17] <gabewillen> nope just on my computer, i have yet to ever release anything i have talked about
[22:00:23] <gabewillen> but this took a substantial amount of work
[22:00:39] <zultron> Ah well.
[22:00:39] <gabewillen> i seem to always choose the hardest route
[22:00:57] <gabewillen> could of just bought a mesa board but no
[22:02:00] <gabewillen> take everything i say with a grain of salt
[22:04:03] <gabewillen> in all seriousness i have a bad track record for not following through
[22:04:06] <Jymmm> s/salt/beer/
[22:04:43] <PCW> s/grain/pint/
[22:05:00] <andypugh> gabewillen: This might interest you too:
http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.linux.distributions.emc.user/43082/focus=43264
[22:05:49] <gabewillen> Where do we see the future of real time?
[22:05:57] <gabewillen> rtai, xenomai, rtpreempt or all 3?
[22:06:44] <andypugh> All three, but RTAI looks like something that could just disappear.
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[22:07:13] <gabewillen> thats what i am thinking
[22:07:22] <gabewillen> the new kernel's open up alot for RT
[22:07:41] <gabewillen> the usb HID was extremely easy to integrate
[22:08:04] <gabewillen> with the rtpreempt 3.6.32 kernel i am using now
[22:08:51] <gabewillen> my question is, should i make this backwords compatible?
[22:09:15] <gabewillen> i have already re wrote some of the components
[22:09:33] <gabewillen> i was thinking about writing a template language to make creating component's extremely simple
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[22:12:14] <gabewillen> Is mike active on here andy?
[22:12:47] <andypugh> Isn't "comp" simple enough for component writing?
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[22:13:09] <andypugh> Michael Haberler you mean?
[22:13:30] <gabewillen> yes
[22:13:59] <andypugh> He is hear nearl all the time, but logs off at about 9pm (GMT)
[22:14:10] <andypugh> ie, 2 hours ago.
[22:14:22] <andypugh> (here, nearly) Bah!
[22:14:35] <gabewillen> ah i see, i'll catch him tomorrow?
[22:14:43] <gabewillen> sorry lol that wasn't a question
[22:15:07] <andypugh> He is on Euro-time.
[22:15:32] <JT-Shop> holy moly I had a fire in the heater the other day and now I need to go get some shorts and flip flops on...
[22:16:02] <andypugh> gabewillen: I think Zulton is aware of the goings-on there, lets see if he wakes up :-)
[22:16:33] <andypugh> Flip-flops and hot swarf, a match made in heaven.
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[22:20:59] <zultron> Sorry fellas, wasn't paying attention.
[22:21:04] <Tom_itx> JT-Shop, hang tight... it's gonna snow again in a couple days
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[22:22:04] <andypugh> Time to go, see you tomorrow chaps.
[22:22:33] <Tom_itx> later andy
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[22:27:10] <JT-Shop> Tom_itx: here in Missouri you are correct it might snow next
[22:27:27] <JT-Shop> cradek: have you had any bike riding weather yet?
[22:27:45] <Tom_itx> it's supposed to turn cold again here
[22:28:03] <Tom_itx> isn't this supposed to be over?
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[22:39:00] <JT-Shop> it's never over here in Missouri and is always changing except for last summer and it was real hot all summer
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[23:20:48] <JT-Shop> everything is done execpt all the things I've not done :)
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[23:31:09] <gabewillen> yeah jt
[23:31:15] <gabewillen> we just skipped spring
[23:31:22] <gabewillen> from 50 to 90 in one day
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