#linuxcnc | Logs for 2013-04-13

[00:01:38] <r00t4rd3d> http://www.ebay.com/itm/36-NoMachine-1-2-10-acme-lead-screw-kit-CNC-router-delrin-nut-bearings-brackets-/130887601564?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1e79824d9c
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[00:02:48] <r00t4rd3d> seems like a decent deal
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[02:01:41] <PetefromTn> Hello..
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[02:16:58] <skunkworks> PetefromTn: spindle working ?
[02:18:31] <PetefromTn> skunkworks: Well that depends on your definiton of WORKING...?
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[02:26:57] <skunkworks2> it is all reletive
[02:37:34] <PetefromTn> Well yesterday I managed to get a shielded cable setup with about ten or twelve conductors from the VFD to the mesa card. I hooked up the analog control signals to the drive and I also hooked up two pins from the mesa card to the drive for FWD and REV control. I did not get to configure them in the software yet.
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[02:40:46] <skunkworks2> you're doing great. it is a big project.
[02:41:10] <PetefromTn> Ya really think so?
[02:42:38] <skunkworks2> you have a great handle on things for just starting linuxcnc. you also have people you can tap for help close to you
[02:43:01] <PetefromTn> That's for sure I would be really screwed if it was not for my friends here LOL
[02:43:33] <skunkworks2> that helps a lot.
[02:43:44] <Jymmm> With friends like skunkworks2 and pcw_home and JT-Shop who needs enemies
[02:43:49] <PetefromTn> Yep.
[02:43:52] <PetefromTn> LOL...
[02:44:13] <Jymmm> skunkworks2: I STILL LOVE YA BABY!!!!
[02:44:42] <skunkworks2> :)
[02:47:30] <PetefromTn> Maybe you guys can help me figure out the way to setup linuxCNC to set the fwd and rev. We were going to change the Hal file to use mesa pins for the setup. I hooked up the two pins to the number 1 and 2 outputs on the mesa card.
[02:48:05] <PetefromTn> Number zero output is setup for my coolant pump on and off...
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[02:52:02] <skunkworks2> if you read back today Andy I and Connor where talking about it
[02:53:03] <skunkworks2> involves using a hal abs component
[02:53:05] <PetefromTn> really how do you read back because I only see from when I logged on...
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[02:53:40] <skunkworks2> logger[mah]:
[02:53:40] <logger[mah]> skunkworks2: Log stored at http://linuxcnc.mah.priv.at/irc/%23linuxcnc/2013-04-13.html
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[02:55:47] <skunkworks2> hundreds of ways to do it.. mine is setup similar 0 - 10v 2 pins frd rev
[02:55:55] <PetefromTn> Aah alright. I will read thru there a bit.
[02:57:34] <PetefromTn> Really how do you have your hal file setup for the command to fwd and rev
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[02:59:00] <skunkworks2> (I posted my half file...) ;)
[02:59:23] <skunkworks2> hal...
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[03:02:29] <PetefromTn> Actually looking at that file it is the same as what I see here only goes back til I logged on...
[03:02:54] <Connor> http://pastebin.ca/2357312
[03:02:54] <skunkworks2> change the date
[03:03:17] <Connor> halcmd show pin *7i77*
[03:03:17] <Connor> (02:42:01 PM) andypugh: abs.0.out => 7i77.analogout
[03:03:17] <Connor> (02:42:18 PM) andypugh: abs.0.is-positive 7i77.pin18
[03:03:25] <Connor> (02:42:32 PM) skunkworks: Then I cheated and used the abs sign output for spindle dirction..
[03:03:25] <Connor> (02:42:37 PM) andypugh: abs.0.is-negative => 7i77.pin19
[03:03:33] <Connor> (02:42:40 PM) skunkworks: (as andypugh showed)
[03:03:34] <Connor> (02:43:05 PM) skunkworks: well - similar.
[03:03:46] <Connor> The relevant parts..
[03:04:11] <Connor> Oh...
[03:04:22] <Connor> and halcmd show pin *7i77* in a terminal window to get the true pin name
[03:05:14] <PetefromTn> Nice ta see ya man!!
[03:05:39] <Connor> I heard my name beep from the living room.
[03:05:40] <Connor> :)
[03:05:55] <PetefromTn> how?
[03:06:40] <Connor> My office is only 20' from living room.. and I have speakers.. Beep for when someone says my name is distinctive..
[03:08:08] <Connor> Go out and print up the terminal screen.. (the black box) and do that halcmd
[03:08:54] <Connor> not sure where you got pins 18 & 19 from.. 16 & 17 were input pins for the MPG.. so 18 and 19 are on the input block.
[03:09:06] <PetefromTn> SO how do I input this into the file, Incidenatally the numbers were right AND wrong. Basically if you look at the 7i77 manual the outputs are 0-7 on the right and 8-16 on the left . I am starting plugging in my outputs from zero so the first one was coolant and the second and third are the fwd and rev liines.
[03:09:57] <PetefromTn> So basically coolant is Zero, and the fwd and rev are 1 and 2..
[03:10:19] <PetefromTn> whaddya mean print up the terminal screen?
[03:10:43] <Connor> okay, so, your on TB8 Pin 18 & 19.. which we could care less about.. it's OUTPUT1 and OUTPUT2 we want to know..
[03:10:57] <PetefromTn> yes exactly...
[03:11:14] <Connor> Should be application called Terminal.. Run that.. will bring up black box.
[03:11:21] <Connor> You've seen me in it a few times.. :)
[03:11:45] <Connor> then type this into the screen and hit enter..
[03:11:45] <Connor> halcmd show pin *7i77*
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[03:12:29] <Connor> skunkworks: What time is it for you ?
[03:12:54] <PetefromTn> Yeah I know but you said PRINT!!
[03:13:01] <Connor> didn't mean print.
[03:13:22] <Connor> I mean pull up.. not print up.. :)
[03:13:44] <pcw_home> defile your terms!
[03:13:58] <Connor> pcw_home: HA.
[03:14:19] <PetefromTn> LOL..
[03:14:44] <Connor> We're just trying to find the proper pin name for the 7i77 for output pins 1 & 2 on the Field I/O block.
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[03:15:25] <Connor> hm2_5i25.0.7i77.0.0.output-01
[03:15:26] <Connor> hm2_5i25.0.7i77.0.0.output-02
[03:15:37] <Connor> That's the pin names.. just found the one for coolant.. it's hm2_5i25.0.7i77.0.0.output-00
[03:15:39] <pcw_home> halcmd is best way (and redirect it to a donor file for cut/paste)
[03:16:11] <Connor> pcw_home: Yea.. but you have to have the hardware in your system.. and I don't.. while he does..
[03:16:25] <pcw_home> I dont think i could type that right two times in a row
[03:16:45] <Connor> I couldn't.. I'm always cut'n and paste'n
[03:18:09] <pcw_home> If PetefromTn makes a file of all pins he can send you a copy
[03:18:28] <Connor> yea.
[03:19:55] <Connor> okay.. he has a line in his file...
[03:19:55] <Connor> net machine-is-enabled => hm2_5i25.0.7i77.0.1.spinena
[03:19:59] <Connor> what is that?
[03:20:09] <Connor> what is spinena ?
[03:20:27] <PetefromTn> spindle enable Im sure..
[03:20:37] <Connor> I am too.. Just not sure what it's connected too.
[03:21:35] <PetefromTn> I don't understand how we connect a signal to a pin on the mesa here at all... SorryLOL
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[03:22:34] <PetefromTn> Is there anything you want me to try here?
[03:23:09] <Connor> one sec.. I'm typing this up..
[03:23:27] <Connor> pcw_home: skunkworks take a look at this and see if this looks right..
[03:23:38] <Connor> find this line
[03:23:38] <Connor> loadrt abs names=abs.spindle
[03:23:38] <Connor> change to
[03:23:38] <Connor> loadrt abs names=abs.spindle,abs.spinout
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[03:24:05] <Connor> find this line and put the # in front of it for now.
[03:24:05] <Connor> #net spindle-vel-cmd => hm2_5i25.0.7i77.0.1.analogout5
[03:24:17] <Connor> and these lines below it..
[03:24:21] <Connor> net spindle-vel-cmd => abs.spinout.in
[03:24:21] <Connor> abs.spinout.out => hm2_5i25.0.7i77.0.1.analogout5
[03:24:21] <Connor> abs.spinout.is-postive => hm2_5i25.0.7i77.0.0.output-01
[03:24:21] <Connor> abs.spinout.is-negative => hm2_5i25.0.7i77.0.0.output-02
[03:25:10] <Connor> That's ONE way to do it..
[03:25:30] <Connor> but, we can also use motion.spindle-forward and motion.spindle-reverse
[03:25:37] <Connor> so.. I'm not sure which way is best.
[03:26:12] <pcw_home> yes in LInuxCNC there are always confusing choices
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[03:26:58] <Connor> he has these lines in his file..
[03:27:16] <Connor> net spindle-on <= motion.spindle-on
[03:27:16] <Connor> net spindle-cw <= motion.spindle-forward
[03:27:16] <Connor> net spindle-ccw <= motion.spindle-reverse
[03:27:32] <pcw_home> I suspect the motion ones are better but I have no basis for that suspicion
[03:28:16] <pcw_home> (but maybe because they will both be off when the spindle is off)
[03:28:42] <Connor> yea. not trusting that spindle-vel-cmd == 0
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[03:29:35] <Connor> So, how do you tie that net-spindle-cw to the pin ?
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[03:31:23] <Connor> net spindle-cw => hm2_5i25.0.7i77.0.0.output-01
[03:31:35] <Connor> net spindle-ccw => hm2_5i25.0.7i77.0.0.output-02
[03:31:40] <Connor> ?
[03:31:44] <pcw_home> or
[03:31:46] <pcw_home> net spindle-ccw hm2_5i25.0.7i77.0.0.output-02 <= motion.spindle-reverse
[03:31:58] <Connor> yea. combined..
[03:32:11] <Connor> okay. PetefromTn: you there ?
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[03:33:23] <PetefromTn> yeah man I just unhooked the spindle motor fan from the relay because for some reason when I wired it up the way Art had it setup it runs all the time instead of when the motor is turning. That MAY be a factor of a setting in the VFD so I dunno...
[03:34:05] <PetefromTn> Standby here a minute...okay
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[03:36:57] <Connor> so, forget everything I pasted above..
[03:37:00] <Connor> and do this.
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[03:37:21] <Connor> find these two lines..
[03:37:21] <Connor> net spindle-cw <= motion.spindle-forward
[03:37:21] <Connor> net spindle-ccw <= motion.spindle-reverse
[03:37:25] <Connor> and change them to this.
[03:37:47] <Connor> net spindle-cc hm2_5i25.0.7i77.0.0.output-01 <= motion.spindle-forward
[03:37:51] <Connor> net spindle-ccw hm2_5i25.0.7i77.0.0.output-02 <= motion.spindle-reverse
[03:38:15] <Connor> I'm thinking that's the only thing you need to change.
[03:38:42] <Connor> BUT. I would check the analog voltage coming off the output when in reverse to make sure it's a positive voltage.. and not negative.
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[03:41:46] <PetefromTn> Okay man this is in the Hal file then?
[03:41:53] <Connor> yes.
[03:42:03] <PetefromTn> Standby...
[03:42:13] <pcw_home> yeah I thinks its generally better to check the outputs
[03:42:14] <pcw_home> for expected behavior _before_ connecting them to (big, dangerous) hardware
[03:42:38] <Connor> around line 242.. unless you have some extra lines now that I don't have..
[03:43:07] <Connor> Yea, the -10 +10 is the only thing I'm not sure about.
[03:43:29] <Connor> OUTPUT_MIN_LIMIT = -10.0
[03:43:30] <PetefromTn> Whaddya mean +10 and -10?
[03:43:46] <Connor> Some VFD's can take -10v to +10v.
[03:43:49] <Connor> yours doesn't.
[03:44:01] <Connor> so we want to make sure it's outputting correctly.
[03:44:32] <Connor> I think you need to change the OUTPUT_MIN_LIMIT = -10.0 in the .ini value under SPINDLE_9 to OUTPUT_MIN_LIMIT = 0
[03:44:33] <Connor> also
[03:44:58] <pcw_home> If we were nice, we would have made a mode where analaog5 was unsigned
[03:45:49] <Connor> pcw_home: OUTPUT_MIN_LIMIT = -10.0 affect it being able to go -10v right ?
[03:46:04] <pcw_home> Yes
[03:46:14] <pcw_home> so set that to 0
[03:46:56] <pcw_home> and set the max limit to the spindle RPM at 10V
[03:46:57] <Connor> Wonder how that works on his normal axis drivers.. I thought they were 0-10v too.. but we have -10 to 10 on them as well.. or does some magic happen on those ?
[03:47:17] <pcw_home> axis drives are +-10
[03:47:40] <Connor> It works, so, I'm not worried about it.. :)
[03:48:06] <Connor> I just thought those were 0-10v with a direction pin.
[03:48:42] <pcw_home> you want the maxscale and output max limit to be 6000
[03:49:09] <pcw_home> (since thats the max requested RPM)
[03:49:27] <Connor> [SPINDLE_9]
[03:49:27] <Connor> ENCODER_SCALE = 50000.0
[03:49:27] <Connor> OUTPUT_SCALE = 10.0
[03:49:27] <Connor> OUTPUT_MIN_LIMIT = -10.0
[03:49:27] <Connor> OUTPUT_MAX_LIMIT = 10.0
[03:49:37] <Connor> that's all he has in the .ini file for spindle I think.
[03:50:28] <PetefromTn> Okay I found the lines... Mine is now setup as you describe changing the voltage polarity now. You guys are moving too fast here for me LOL
[03:50:44] <pcw_home> OUTPUT_SCALE = 6000
[03:50:46] <pcw_home> OUTPUT_MIN_LIMIT = 0.0
[03:50:47] <pcw_home> OUTPUT_MAX_LIMIT = 6000
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[03:51:07] <pcw_home> Is what I think you want
[03:51:25] <PetefromTn> Is it okay that I put a pound sign before the original lines instead of deleting them in case this does not work
[03:51:29] <PetefromTn> Why 6000?
[03:51:48] <Connor> setp hm2_5i25.0.7i77.0.1.analogout5-scalemax [SPINDLE_9]OUTPUT_SCALE
[03:51:48] <Connor> setp hm2_5i25.0.7i77.0.1.analogout5-minlim [SPINDLE_9]OUTPUT_MIN_LIMIT
[03:51:48] <Connor> setp hm2_5i25.0.7i77.0.1.analogout5-maxlim [SPINDLE_9]OUTPUT_MAX_LIMIT
[03:51:57] <Connor> is in the hall file.
[03:52:06] <Connor> 6000 RPM
[03:52:06] <pcw_home> because the spindle speeds are scaled in RPM
[03:52:48] <PetefromTn> duh..
[03:52:54] <pcw_home> so with that scaling when you request 6000 RPM you will get 10V
[03:53:28] <Connor> What's the bit resolution on those PWM outputs ?
[03:53:31] <pcw_home> if left at 10 you would just about always be at full speed
[03:53:51] <PetefromTn> Okay so got the INI file up here looking at the spindle setup.
[03:53:56] <pcw_home> 13 bits (12 bits unipolar)
[03:54:02] <PetefromTn> change output min limit to zero then?
[03:54:08] <Connor> yes
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[03:54:32] <PetefromTn> output scale to the 6000?
[03:55:06] <pcw_home> yes if thats your max RPM
[03:55:31] <PetefromTn> okay why again is the max limit 6000 and not the 10v?
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[03:55:55] <PetefromTn> encoder scale is set to 50000.0
[03:56:18] <pcw_home> because the number that gets feed to this from motion is scaled in RPM
[03:57:14] <PetefromTn> but it was set to a voltage from the way the PNCconf set it up initially?
[03:57:28] <PetefromTn> or rather a voltage representation..
[03:58:27] <pcw_home> pncconf oversight?
[03:58:34] <PetefromTn> also when we did the PNCconf file setup we did not have the spindle hooked up yet so we did not input anything in the values, do we need to run PNCconf to set up the spindle or will modifying the INI and hal files suffice?
[03:58:40] <Connor> Pncconf really didn't ask about RPM on the spindle I don't think
[03:58:54] <Connor> PetefromTn: No.
[03:59:13] <PetefromTn> You are the man Pete so if you say it is 6k then it is 6k not questioning you here just wondering about the discrepancy..
[03:59:44] <pcw_home> in any case the number you get is in RPM so the analog output channel needs to be scaled in RPM
[04:00:15] <PetefromTn> jeez its midnight already LOL
[04:00:55] <pcw_home> just to further confuse you its arguable that the axis drives should be scaled in machine units per second instead of volts
[04:01:12] <PetefromTn> okay just tried to load linuxCNC and got an error..
[04:01:21] <Connor> okay. what's the error.
[04:01:25] <pcw_home> not unexpected
[04:01:49] <PetefromTn> it says output2 is not in existence...
[04:02:08] <PetefromTn> should it be output 2 and not output 02?
[04:02:12] <Connor> hm2_5i25.0.7i77.0.0.output-02
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[04:02:31] <pcw_home> you must be youngsters, I'm on the left coast and falling asleep already
[04:03:17] <PetefromTn> Well like I said it is midnight here now. Just finished watching a movie called the life of Pi. Pretty damn interesting.
[04:03:40] <PetefromTn> Connor: that is exactly what I inputted.
[04:03:54] <FinboySlick> pcw_home: I discovered that you can use RAMB18E1 as fifo and I'm giddy as a little girl.
[04:04:20] <FinboySlick> I thought I was going to have to implement all of that junk by myself.
[04:04:26] <pcw_home> srl16s make nice FIFOs as well
[04:04:47] <FinboySlick> From what I read, they're fast too!
[04:05:08] <pcw_home> (yes and dense)
[04:05:33] <pcw_home> 1 SRL16 (16 FFs) per LUT
[04:05:40] <FinboySlick> Fifos were really the missing part for what I was trying to do.
[04:06:13] <FinboySlick> I have a wide chunk of data that I have to process in chunks. Fifos can tell me when all the data is ready for the next step.
[04:06:15] <Connor> PetefromTn: Hmm. Not sure.. Kinda hard to tell without seeing everything in front of me.
[04:06:15] <PetefromTn> again I put a pound sign before the original lines in the hal file instead of deleting them would that cause a problem?
[04:06:16] <FinboySlick> It's awesome.
[04:06:27] <pcw_home> Spartan6 and above has SRL32s
[04:06:30] <Connor> No. That comments it out.
[04:07:04] <PetefromTn> thats what I thought... Do you need to have the same amount of spaced between the net stuff and the <=stuff?
[04:07:15] <Connor> no. single space is fine.
[04:07:36] <PetefromTn> I'll text you a picture of the screen...
[04:07:55] <Connor> k. I have to come into Maryville tomorrow it look slike.
[04:08:33] <Connor> Need to Drop a Dog off at a Adoption event (runs from 11-3) So, I can drop by and help with this.. but,, have to leave in time to pick the dog up at 3
[04:08:43] <pcw_home> 'Nite all
[04:08:50] <Connor> g'nigh pcw_home
[04:09:16] <PetefromTn> Nite PETE!!
[04:09:27] <PetefromTn> msg sent.
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[04:09:48] <PetefromTn> Okay man that is great if you can come over. Still trying to get this line setup.
[04:12:07] <PetefromTn> Doh I think I found the problem. I put a 1 instead of an I in the output 2 line LOL
[04:16:05] <PetefromTn> okay man how do I test the spindle now? I don't see where I can set the speed, I wanna set it for slow.
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[04:26:19] <Connor> PetefromTn: okay, I'm back
[04:26:24] <PetefromTn> No worries...
[04:26:46] <Connor> Do you not have a + and - under the spindle somewhere ?
[04:27:18] <PetefromTn> Trying to figure out the vfd. Would these inputs to the vfd be sinking or sourcing inputs? Gotta configure out which is which so I can configure the little terminal thing.
[04:27:18] <Connor> let me go look at my config on my mill brb
[04:27:35] <Connor> sourcing.
[04:27:38] <Connor> I belive.
[04:28:01] <Connor> Yes, Everything on the 7i77 is Sourcing.
[04:29:08] <PetefromTn> so what would that make the INPUTS to the VFD then?
[04:29:33] <PetefromTn> so the 7i77 sources the 24v signal and the vfd sinks it?
[04:29:56] <Connor> yes
[04:30:31] <PetefromTn> okay it is already setup for sinking....
[04:31:37] <PetefromTn> Trying to decide how to proceed with a test here. I was gonna pull the wires out from the 7i77 and then put a meter across but I need to remove all of them. If I remove them from the VFD I only need to remove one input at a tiime. They are also not configured in the vfd yet.
[04:35:04] <Connor> I would remove all of them.
[04:35:14] <Connor> just to be safe.
[04:35:28] <Connor> let me look at your docs on your VFD
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[04:37:01] <PetefromTn> Okay in the VFD manual it says you set c001 thru coo7 for inputs. I set C001 to 00 for FWD and coo2 to 01 for rev. You also set A002 for 01 for control external
[04:37:45] <PetefromTn> pg 33...
[04:38:40] <Connor> I'm looking at page 28.
[04:39:11] <Connor> Looks like you set the VFD for SOURCING inputs.
[04:39:12] <PetefromTn> I removed all four wires from the VFD and now wanna check with the meter. Trying to figure out how to input the velocity or RPM in linuxCNC here. I see where you turn it cw or ccw on..
[04:39:28] <Connor> No + or - buttons under it ?
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[04:40:18] <PetefromTn> yeah there is but where do you see the speed readout?
[04:40:31] <Connor> It's the bar graph in the right hand corner.
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[04:40:59] <Connor> okay.. Looking at the manual.. you need to power the VFD down.. and change from sink to source ..
[04:41:17] <PetefromTn> okay I hit FWD and pressed the plus sign and no bar graph on your glade panel...
[04:41:18] <Connor> because 7i77 is SOURCING outputs, and VFD needs to be set for SOURCING input.
[04:41:56] <PetefromTn> I don't understand why we need to change when we are outputting a 24v signal from the 7i77 to the VFDs input?
[04:42:02] <Connor> I'm not sure the Glade bar graph is hooked in correctly.. It might be for input speed, not commanded.
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[04:42:40] <Connor> Because, the VFD can be setup so that you either ground the inputs (sinking), or supply voltage (sourcing).
[04:42:46] <PetefromTn> okay so I cannot test then because I cannot see what the speed is gonna be
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[04:43:09] <PetefromTn> Are you sure that is correct setup then?
[04:43:15] <Connor> OKay, then lets just hold off till tomorrow.. better save than sorry.
[04:43:23] <Connor> Look at bottom of page 28.
[04:43:28] <PetefromTn> Ifso I gotta power everything down and do it.
[04:43:34] <PetefromTn> Okay I am looking now.
[04:43:46] <Connor> see the short bar.. connecting PLC to L.
[04:43:55] <Connor> L is negative..
[04:44:12] <Connor> and P24 is 24v supply..
[04:44:26] <PetefromTn> yeah I know that
[04:44:53] <Connor> now if we source 24v from 7i77 it goes through the input circuits and then goes to ground to complete the circuit.
[04:44:56] <Connor> from what I can tell.
[04:45:11] <PetefromTn> So if I change the jumper then I am okay....
[04:45:18] <Connor> yes.
[04:45:31] <PetefromTn> Honestly we are not even there yet because I need to test the output of the 7i77 first...
[04:45:37] <Connor> correct.
[04:45:40] <PetefromTn> Wires are disconnected.
[04:46:23] <PetefromTn> So if I turn on the spindle in the software the fwd line should be 24v to gnd and the analog output should be something MORE than zero since we dunno what the spindle speed commanded is yet...
[04:46:26] <Connor> So. Lets call it a night before we make a mistake.. cause I'm getting sleepy.. I'll bring my digital Multimeter tomorrow. and we can test before hooking stuff up
[04:46:42] <Connor> correct
[04:46:52] <Connor> and rev should be 0
[04:47:07] <PetefromTn> Thats fine I am gonna do the voltage checks here now if you wanna hit the hay I understand....
[04:47:42] <Connor> The two diagrams below show input wiring circuits using an external supply. If using the “Sinking Inputs, External Supply” in below wiring diagram, be sure to remove the short bar, and use a diode (*) with the external supply. This will prevent a power supply contention in case the short bar is accidentally placed in the incorrect position. For the “Sourcing Inputs, External Supply”, please connect the short bar as drawn in the diagram below
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[04:48:15] <Connor> never mind.. that was about sinking..
[04:48:21] <PetefromTn> Yeah I read that.. The mesa card has built in diodes for that...
[04:49:02] <Connor> so, you need to be sure to tie a gnd to L as well looks like.
[04:50:00] <PetefromTn> okay just hit FWD and checked the proper wire and got 24v and 0 on the other....
[04:50:17] <Connor> for CW and CCW ?
[04:50:21] <Connor> what about the analog out ?
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[04:51:24] <PetefromTn> Okay just checked reverse and got 24v on the output and zero on the other so that all works correctly. NICE.
[04:51:56] <PetefromTn> Not sure how to check the output. Went between the two wires and got zero but again Not sure I have any speed set in the software...
[04:52:00] <Connor> good. and the analog voltage in rev vs fwd should still be the same.. (note, after switching, you'll need to hit the + a few times)
[04:52:31] <PetefromTn> WOnder if I goto MDI and input an s value of say 3000 RPM?
[04:52:40] <Connor> you can.
[04:52:51] <Connor> you can also bring up hal configuration.. and look at the pin.
[04:53:18] <Connor> hm2_5i25.0.7i77.0.1.analogout5
[04:53:34] <Connor> should be a value from 0 to 4096 I think.
[04:53:41] <PetefromTn> spindle FWD is m3 right cannot remember right now LOL
[04:54:20] <Connor> Yes. M3 is FWD ON
[04:54:29] <Connor> M4 IS CCW
[04:54:35] <Connor> m5 is stop
[04:55:44] <PetefromTn> Okay just checked and m3 s3000 gives me a fwd command 24v line and 4.9v on the analog output.
[04:56:07] <Connor> that's exactly what you want. around 5v
[04:56:18] <PetefromTn> yup...working FINE...
[04:57:08] <PetefromTn> Okay now that is working I guess I need to power down and move the jumper between L and PLC...
[04:57:29] <Connor> Yup.
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[04:58:12] <PetefromTn> You said I might need a ground to L on the input, where would I get it from? The 7i77 or the ground buss
[04:58:26] <Connor> 7i77
[04:58:34] <PetefromTn> or since we are moving the jumper to L maybe I don't need it...
[04:58:42] <Connor> You need to.
[04:59:20] <PetefromTn> Okay then gotta figure out where and how now...
[04:59:48] <Connor> You should have a connector somewhere on the 7i77 for gnd.. I would think.
[05:00:00] <Connor> or one coming off of the 24v power supply.
[05:00:39] <PetefromTn> Okay gonna play with it here a bit. Nice that we have the linuxCNC outputting good info here...
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[05:03:21] <PetefromTn> SO I don't understand really here if we put the jumper between PLC and L , L is where the ground would have been.
[05:03:38] <PetefromTn> The L on the next connector down is where the analog input is gounded to....
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[05:08:04] <PetefromTn> I think I am gonna configure the output 11 for spindle zero speed for allowing me to setup my power drawbar output safely...
[05:09:53] <Connor> PetefromTn: Huh?
[05:10:22] <Connor> PLC Is the "common" L is ground. we want to tie the VFD ground to the 7i77 ground to keep from having issues.
[05:10:32] <Connor> bottom of page 29
[05:10:46] <PetefromTn> HOLY SHIT IT WORKS!!
[05:12:40] <PetefromTn> just checked it at 500 RPM and got 499.8
[05:12:50] <PetefromTn> at 1k it was equally as close...
[05:16:27] <Connor> Nice.
[05:16:42] <Connor> and you tied L, PLC to a 7i77 gnd ? :)
[05:16:42] <PetefromTn> Okay man other than fine tunning the entire system and getting everything tidied up I belive that is the last thing I was wanting to do for my BASIC machine setup so that I can actually use the machine. AWESOME AWESOME>>>GREAT WORK MY FREINDS>>>
[05:17:14] <Connor> what was you talking about here? I think I am gonna configure the output 11 for spindle zero speed for allowing me to setup my power drawbar output safely...
[05:22:15] <PetefromTn> Basically I already have all of the solid state relays powered up just gotta setup an output to fire the power drawbar so that I can use the drawbar. Don't want it to accidentally fire while the spindle is running so I thought we could tie the power drawbar to spindle zero speed temporarily until we get to the toolchanger setup
[05:22:54] <Connor> Ah.
[05:22:58] <PetefromTn> Read Mike Kilroy's PM to me and he said to test the output current of the VFD at 60hz freq, trying to figure out what that would be in RPM on a scale of 6000...
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[05:24:14] <Connor> I'm not following now.. as I didn't get the PM's. :)
[05:24:41] <Connor> I know the VFD has a output for current..
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[05:25:00] <Connor> that can be used to show how much load the spindle is under..
[05:25:59] <PetefromTn> No I can monitor the current output in D002
[05:26:31] <PetefromTn> Trying to figure out what percentage 60 HZ is of the max 400 and then correlating that to the same in RPM of the max 6000
[05:27:33] <Connor> 900 ?
[05:27:45] <Connor> (60 / 400) * 6000
[05:28:08] <Connor> 60 of 400 is 14%.. so 14% of 6000 is 900 RPM.
[05:28:14] <Connor> I guess.
[05:31:20] <PetefromTn> Yeah that's what I got too... The spindle is working good but for some reason whenever I decellerate it errors out on me with an E07.2 error. I am sure it is a setting or something. Gonna restart now...
[05:32:02] <Connor> C028 lets you specify what the analog voltage output 0-10 corresponds to.
[05:32:31] <Connor> 00 - freq, 01- current, 02=torque, 04 = voltage etc etc..
[05:33:59] <PetefromTn> Cool..... only got two outputs tho and one has gotta be for the zero speed for toolchange and the other is
[05:34:10] <PetefromTn> for some odd reason M4 is not working....
[05:35:10] <Connor> page 44..
[05:35:52] <PetefromTn> OOps and the spindle motor fan now goes on when the motor is OFF instead of ON LOL...
[05:36:17] <Connor> Ha.
[05:37:25] <PetefromTn> Okay so that means you do not need to use that output for monitoring any of those settings then...pretty sweet. Beginning to like this Hitachi driver LOL...
[05:38:23] <Connor> Yea.. Looks like you use the AM Pin for it..
[05:39:12] <Connor> You have a EO and AM.. Not sure what EO is for.
[05:39:32] <Connor> then you have pin 11 and 12
[05:39:38] <Connor> for On/Off ?
[05:41:06] <Connor> EO is pulse train output.. so, we don't care about it..
[05:41:30] <PetefromTn> Okay got some errors in the LinuxCNC saying smart serial error.... when I slow down the driver or stop it the spindle I mean...
[05:41:47] <Connor> okay. what's the error ?
[05:42:11] <Connor> some of that could be because we don't have the encoder
[05:43:58] <PetefromTn> Oh okay because when I first turned on linuxCNC I got an error on encoder 3 which is odd..
[05:44:22] <Connor> not using a encoder 3 at all..
[05:44:44] <Connor> 0 1 2, and 5 I think
[05:44:51] <PetefromTn> Some funky stuff going on here man LOL... Tell ya what it is getting late and I am EXTREMELY PLEASED that we have gotten this far with the spindle tonight maybe you can drop by tomorrow and we can fine tune this beotch...
[05:44:57] <PetefromTn> Yup 0125...
[05:45:12] <Connor> yea. Sometime after 11am..
[05:45:20] <Connor> I'll call ya
[05:46:16] <PetefromTn> Coolbeans man.. THanks for all your help We are really getting there with this monster here LOL.. Nitey night man. Peace
[05:46:22] <Connor> g'niht
[05:46:29] <PetefromTn> PETEFROMTN SIGNING OFF>..
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[05:54:02] <mr_new> good morning
[06:02:41] <r00t4rd3d> good night
[06:04:40] <mr_new> morning not night^^
[06:07:15] <Loetmichel> mornin
[06:11:27] <Loetmichel> *sweating early in the morning* (its 80:10 over here) ... my wife just called: she's back at FFM Airport from 1 week Philadelphia ... got the trash out and moped the kitchen and the bathroom :-)
[06:11:41] <Loetmichel> 08:10
[06:12:57] <mr_new> you should spend her 2 weeks there
[06:13:16] <mr_new> so you would have longer time for your maschines
[06:15:05] <Loetmichel> mr_new: I have stayed here in germany... my wife is in an international team at SAP, so she travels a lot for the company ;-)
[06:16:25] <Loetmichel> ah, now i understand... i won't spend her anything, rather the other way around. her payceck is roughly triple of mine ;-)
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[06:31:14] <mr_new> hm how to controll a jäger spindle?
[06:32:05] <mr_new> is it possible, to just generate a 3phases sine square waveform for that?
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[06:43:34] <tjtr33> from Intel: "Delivering Deterministic, Real-Time Performance with a Low Cost Intel Atom Processor-based Platform"
[06:43:49] <tjtr33> http://download.intel.com/embedded/processor/whitepaper/324510.pdf
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[06:50:29] <DJ9DJ> moin
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[12:10:37] <jthornton> maybe andypugh should give the kitchen suppliers in Sheffield a good smack with a frozen mackerel
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[12:17:43] <carper64_lb_> better still tell mrs its ordered thenspend kitchen money on cnc lol
[12:18:57] <carper64_lb_> damn wish id thought of that culd be running servos instead of steppers
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[12:25:37] <andypugh> <confused>
[12:30:38] <carper64_lb_> andy iam always confused
[12:31:49] <archivist> jthornton, rather long distance kitchen suppliers for you?
[12:44:10] <carper64_lb_> got that much to do and cant be bothered o do anything today
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[13:09:00] <grandixximo> hello again
[13:09:26] <grandixximo> i reported this bug https://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=3610734&group_id=6744&atid=106744#
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[13:09:42] <grandixximo> it seems the description was misleading
[13:09:48] <grandixximo> or unclear
[13:10:04] <grandixximo> Is it ok like that or should i change it?
[13:10:11] <grandixximo> i don't find how tough
[13:10:35] <IchGuckLive> grandixximo: it will be changed soon
[13:11:23] <grandixximo> Ok thank you
[13:11:52] <grandixximo> Is it fixable you think?
[13:12:09] <grandixximo> can it be fixed?
[13:12:24] <grandixximo> the bug i mean
[13:12:31] <IchGuckLive> on linuxcnc everything can be fixed O.O
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[13:12:48] <grandixximo> well some things don't get fixed
[13:12:53] <grandixximo> or implemented
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[13:13:28] <IchGuckLive> let me quick get over your peroblem
[13:15:14] <IchGuckLive> grandixximo: are you on 2.5.2
[13:15:21] <grandixximo> yes
[13:16:03] <grandixximo> latest stable from the buildbot
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[13:16:11] <IchGuckLive> i see
[13:16:29] <IchGuckLive> yes this need to be fixesd out in the upcomming
[13:16:47] <grandixximo> in 2.6 you mean?
[13:16:54] <IchGuckLive> run from line is not getting yout tool loaded as expected
[13:17:08] <IchGuckLive> no its within the next week i guess
[13:17:47] <grandixximo> fantastic then, i'll check the bug report.
[13:18:04] <IchGuckLive> andy got it so i thin kit is discussed at devels today
[13:18:41] <grandixximo> Good job guys, always fantastic work :)
[13:20:02] <IchGuckLive> but to get over tis at al why arent you using G41/42
[13:20:27] <IchGuckLive> or a fixed tool lib
[13:20:34] <IchGuckLive> are you on a 5-axis
[13:24:11] <IchGuckLive> grandixximo: you know the different between L10 and L1
[13:24:18] <grandixximo> no
[13:24:25] <grandixximo> i try with both
[13:24:27] <IchGuckLive> that is bad
[13:24:28] <grandixximo> and is the same
[13:24:40] <grandixximo> i read in the documentation but i don't understand
[13:24:53] <grandixximo> i'm on 3 axis btw
[13:26:08] <IchGuckLive> you got G43 in your g-code
[13:26:43] <IchGuckLive> with the H number
[13:27:32] <grandixximo> G43???
[13:27:42] <grandixximo> in what g code?
[13:27:45] <IchGuckLive> to get the ofset to the tool
[13:27:53] <IchGuckLive> otherwise it is not regonised
[13:28:54] <grandixximo> you mean i must use G43?
[13:29:03] <IchGuckLive> ofcause
[13:29:26] <IchGuckLive> with the Tool length number you set usely the H is the same as the tool
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[13:30:35] <IchGuckLive> http://linuxcnc.org/docs/devel/html/gcode/gcode.html#sec:G43
[13:31:20] <grandixximo> G43 loads axis offset of the tools
[13:31:44] <IchGuckLive> yes i woudt always go for a G43 Hx
[13:31:58] <IchGuckLive> as it is the savest on the G10 Lxx
[13:32:25] <grandixximo> G43 cannot change tool diameter
[13:32:35] <grandixximo> I need to change tool diameter
[13:33:04] <grandixximo> i don't care about offsets
[13:33:11] <IchGuckLive> this is bad programming use Zero path and ofset by tooltable G41 G42
[13:33:18] <IchGuckLive> that is cald CRC
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[13:34:29] <grandixximo> i don't know CRC
[13:34:43] <archivist> grandixximo, this is the grinding machine?
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[13:34:56] <grandixximo> polishing
[13:35:06] <grandixximo> stone polishing
[13:35:08] <IchGuckLive> oh ni mill ?
[13:35:22] <IchGuckLive> no
[13:35:26] <archivist> IchGuckLive, no so do not make assumptions
[13:35:38] <IchGuckLive> then im off
[13:35:43] <IchGuckLive> sorry
[13:35:50] <grandixximo> i was a bit confused
[13:35:53] <archivist> his wheel wears during the operation
[13:36:11] <IchGuckLive> B)
[13:37:05] <grandixximo> yes i made an example to show you the bug, but the actual job i'm doing is a much more complex g-code where i can control the wear of tools and compensate accordingly
[13:37:24] <archivist> grandixximo, I wonder if you need a comp like the THC
[13:37:44] <grandixximo> you mean the torch/
[13:37:46] <IchGuckLive> if grindet lots of wheels(D450) to dust during worktine
[13:37:46] <grandixximo> ?
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[13:39:12] <grandixximo> No dust i use water for lubricant
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[13:39:28] <grandixximo> We have mud
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[13:39:40] <IchGuckLive> http://www.gail-werkzeugmaschinen.de/grafik/email/10244.jpg
[13:40:17] <IchGuckLive> ok im off by
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[13:41:34] <grandixximo> Bye
[13:42:27] <grandixximo> http://stonecoldcnc.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/cnc-machine-oceania-00.jpg
[13:42:35] <grandixximo> this is the machine kinda
[13:43:20] <grandixximo> you can see how many wheels there are and even more than one for each cone
[13:47:21] <grandixximo> all the colored wheels are made in abrasive material, and as they work they wear, to maintain constant quality you must adjust the diameter of your tools
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[13:52:57] <grandixximo> it works well on Linuxcnc, i wish there was a simple way to have a live compensation for the tool wear
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[14:29:37] <mrsun> hmm how to rejuvinate paste flux for silver soldering? :/
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[14:31:00] <mrsun> just water?
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[14:34:26] <PetefromTn> Morning all...
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[14:43:37] <pcw_home> PetefromTn: Noticed you had a sserial error. This is bad and with 7I77 usually indicates a ground loop (HF noise from drives returning down 7I77 DB25 cable)
[14:45:02] <PetefromTn> REALLY?? what can I do about it. Seemed like it only did it upon decelleration....crap.
[14:45:33] <pcw_home> If you have not seen this before I would suspect noise from the spindle drive
[14:46:47] <pcw_home> on thing is to make sure you are not returning the field I/O GND to 7I77 logic/Analog/5V gnd
[14:47:07] <Tom_itx> mrsun, i use iso alcohol
[14:47:16] <Tom_itx> just a couple drops though
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[14:57:25] <pcw_home> Other options are:
[14:57:27] <pcw_home> 1. Common mode choke on analog (large ferrite bead around analog out and GND going to VFD)
[14:57:29] <pcw_home> 2. Series resistors (say 100 Ohm) on both analog out and GND going to VFD
[14:57:30] <pcw_home> 3. Common mode choke on motor leads
[14:57:32] <pcw_home> 4. Line filter on VFD power
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[15:00:20] <PetefromTn> Okay I will play with it some more today, Connor is going to come over again apparently and help me. Great guy, you too...
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[15:03:19] <dave_e> hi all I working on a config that is one linear and one angular axis. the linear will move but not the angular ... ideas
[15:03:47] <PetefromTn> Can you elaborate more on the returning the field I/O ground to 7i77 logic?
[15:04:12] <dave_e> version 2.5.1 sim
[15:06:06] <dave_e> following error set at 10000
[15:06:27] <dave_e> attempt to move A axis get an immediate following error
[15:06:38] <pcw_home> Field I/O has a separate GND (the negative pin of your 24V supply)
[15:06:40] <pcw_home> this should not connect to the 7I77 encoder or analog GND
[15:06:47] <mrsun> Tom_itx, well this paste is realy dry :P
[15:06:52] <mrsun> i added water and it came back to life :P
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[15:12:50] <PetefromTn> Okay I will check my setup here...Thanks so much Pete
[15:12:56] <mrsun> http://sphotos-f.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/558577_10151535247593648_484331622_n.jpg feet for my new milling machine! =)
[15:12:59] <mrsun> yeah! =)
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[15:36:45] <dave_e> hi kirk how are things going?
[15:41:45] <andypugh> PetefromTn: A line filter on the VFD it is a really good idea. That saved me a lot of noise, and if you look at the installation fiagrams they neatly always show one.
[15:43:00] <PetefromTn> Thanks Andy... I will look into one.
[15:45:09] <asdfasd> on my router the VFD is very small, and I installed it on X axis, with very short cable to the spindle, also CY cable is recomended
[15:45:26] <asdfasd> if that is the problem...
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[16:55:42] <PetefromTn> Hello again...
[17:01:43] <PetefromTn> pcw_home: Are you still there Pete? I hope you are out on this nice Saturday but just in case I have a question about the 7i77 noise issue...
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[17:06:25] <IchGuckLive> hi all from the sunny germany B)
[17:08:27] <pcw_home> Yeah I'll be here for a while off-and-on
[17:20:21] <PetefromTn> PCW.... Okay man we have basically wired the 7i77 analog output into the drive and we have it setup with the analog out going to AIN in on the VFD and we have the ground going from the 7i77 to the AIN- on the drive with the shielding also grounded at the 7i77 side. Then we just have the two outputs going from field I/O to the fwd and rev inputs on the vfd and no ground wire because was not sure where to pput it...
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[17:23:37] <pcw_home> the 24V common should do the the VFD digital input commom
[17:24:10] <PetefromTn> Okay that is what Connor thought too...
[17:25:42] <pcw_home> s/ do to/go to/
[17:39:03] <PetefromTn> okay man gonna try it now...
[17:41:54] <dave_e> sunny here also but trying to blow us off the hill. E. Washington.
[17:42:42] <IchGuckLive> washington state
[17:43:14] <dave_e> yep, major crops are hops and wine grapes
[17:47:27] <IchGuckLive> eine is also here in germany B)
[17:47:34] <IchGuckLive> w
[17:53:37] <dave_e> you are much wetter than we are. we are classed as high desert with just over 8 inches a year.
[17:54:01] <dave_e> snow runoff from the Cascades saves us.
[17:54:47] <IchGuckLive> we had full rain servise this week
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[17:56:38] <dave_e> oh so did we ... maybe .25 cm. ;-)
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[17:57:24] <IchGuckLive> i got 11.000 liters this wek in the reserva
[17:57:56] -!- PetefromTn has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
[17:57:56] <IchGuckLive> need to go have a nice saturday where ever you are BBQ ready
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[17:58:38] <dave_e> with 300 da/yr of sunshine most days are predictable.
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[18:13:39] <dave_e> exit
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[18:16:45] <PetefromTn_> hello...
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[18:20:05] <L84Supper> I need to add an encoder strip to a conveyor belt, I haven't seen anything off the shelf that will handle the flexing, so it looks like laser etch or inkjet to print one directly to the belt
[18:20:10] <L84Supper> any other ideas?
[18:21:26] <pcw_home> what resolution?
[18:22:12] <L84Supper> 100-400 dpi
[18:23:49] <L84Supper> nobody can make a conveyor with low enough side to side Y tolerance. They can get down to 125um, but I need to measure the Y movement to produce an offset
[18:24:38] <pcw_home> would it be attached directly to the conveyor?
[18:24:43] <L84Supper> I might just use a rotary encoder to measure X position of the belt and print a line down the side to track Y movement with a camera to generate an offset for the machine
[18:25:52] <pcw_home> a rotary encoder is liable to be more reliable if there is dirt around
[18:25:57] <L84Supper> I need to measure the Y axis jitter of the belt and offset the printhead to match the Y jitter/movement
[18:26:47] <L84Supper> yeah, it's clean and I could wipe the strip but I really need to measure the Y movement of the belt
[18:26:57] <pcw_home> if the jitter is not fast, a vision system a fiducial marks on the belt might work
[18:27:39] <pcw_home> s/a fiducial/and fiducial/
[18:27:58] <L84Supper> yeah, just a line and camera, profile a full rotation, look for changes
[18:28:50] <pcw_home> but thats a fairly low bandwidth solution without high frame rates
[18:28:59] <L84Supper> nobody knows how fast the jitter might be, it's the same belt, over time it should probably settle as long as the conveyor isn't modified
[18:29:25] <L84Supper> it's only moving at ~1 foot/sec
[18:30:10] <L84Supper> line scanner can easily keep up
[18:31:52] <L84Supper> it would be nice if they could just mold in a steel filament to track with a mag head
[18:32:40] <L84Supper> X accuracy of the conveyors are really good
[18:32:55] <pcw_home> If its just scanning you dont even need quarature
[18:33:03] <pcw_home> quadrature
[18:33:25] <L84Supper> nobody has been concerned with the Y, one company that makes stainless conveyors never even measured the Y jitter/movement
[18:35:02] <pcw_home> Is there a y encoder already?
[18:35:39] <L84Supper> nope, have to decide on what works best
[18:37:51] <pcw_home> Reminds me of old Versatec printers, they printed fiducials on the first color pass and realigned ever subsequent pass
[18:40:14] <L84Supper> yeah, this system has printed fiducials from the previous printer but this is the next station with a different belt
[18:41:05] <pcw_home> the other issue is if you measure jitter, where do you measure it? at drive rotary at other end, both. in the middle etc
[18:41:05] <L84Supper> we already scan the fiducials but if there is Y drift after the camera and before the printheads the print will end up in the wrong place
[18:42:21] <L84Supper> it's actually the amount of Y jitter of the belt between the camera that scans the fiducials and the printheads
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[18:43:25] <L84Supper> using a linear motor and nice bearing vs belt solves this problem as well
[18:46:50] <pcw_home> Yes (but in one respect only because a linear motor will always include a nice linear encoder)
[18:49:57] <L84Supper> and the bearing will have less wobble than the belt
[18:51:58] <L84Supper> think of the Versatec having to realign itself after the paper is removed, or print 100 pages, reshuffle and pass them through for more layers of print
[18:53:25] <L84Supper> or using two Versatecs where the first one has lots of lash in the print carriage, the second one has to try to match the sloppiness of the first printer
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[18:55:44] <pcw_home> does the conveyor belt need to go all the way around?
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[19:01:50] <L84Supper> if it doesn't then we'd use a linear actuator
[19:02:28] <L84Supper> there are constraints on floor space length, it's part of a work cell
[19:03:04] <L84Supper> it's one cell getting prints from another
[19:03:07] <pcw_home> I was just wondering how you splice a linear encoder strip...
[19:04:21] <L84Supper> I haven't seen anyone make a flexible enough one, the polyester type used in inkjets isn't durable enough
[19:04:23] <Tom_itx> is that a good idea?
[19:04:42] <pcw_home> I guess what I would first is see if a rotary encoder in the drive is good enough
[19:05:09] <Tom_itx> maybe cut a diagonal like splicing reel to reel tape?
[19:05:21] <L84Supper> so it looks like rotary encoder on the belt and just a printed/laser etched line near one side tracked by a scanner
[19:05:49] <pcw_home> or periodic lines
[19:06:00] <L84Supper> two scanners, one at the cameras and one right before the printheads
[19:06:20] <L84Supper> to detect and skew and generate an offset at the heads
[19:06:27] <L84Supper> and/any
[19:07:44] <pcw_home> Tom_itx yes but the spacing needs to be correct so you dont have a glitch at the junction
[19:09:12] <L84Supper> or measure the glitch at the junction, since it's repeatable
[19:09:45] <L84Supper> the belt moves at a constant velocity, so it makes that easy
[19:10:16] <pcw_home> if it counts right...
[19:11:01] <L84Supper> we can easily inkjet reflective dots every 250um down the belt
[19:11:07] <pcw_home> is it friction drive of a toothed belt
[19:11:14] <pcw_home> or a
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[19:15:18] <andypugh> Darn it! Spent all day winding this motor, eventually got it with no shorted windings, it ran _great_ for a little while, then one of the wires broke.
[19:15:51] <L84Supper> 1% inspiration, 99% perspiration
[19:15:52] <andypugh> I can't decide if it broke due to earlier abuse, or actually over-loaded.
[19:20:06] <Jymmm> http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=I03UmJbK0lA#!
[19:23:12] <Jymmm> andypugh: PM
[19:24:40] <JT-Shop> andypugh: were you able to help Kent?
[19:27:18] <archivist> andypugh, is there enough protection of the wire during assembly, are the windings restrained insitu as the magnetism can vibrated the wire to failure
[19:31:55] <pcw_home> I suspect overloaded. If you had 26 Gauge (~250 circular mills) thats only good for
[19:31:57] <pcw_home> maybe 1A cont and say 4A peak, 30 gauge is only good for say 350 ma cont and say 1.5A peak
[19:31:59] <pcw_home> (using 250 CM/A rule of thumb)
[19:32:41] <pcw_home> though I would expect smoke if overloaded long enough
[19:34:15] <pcw_home> Not sure how much current it take to melt 30 gauge copper somewhere around 10A though
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[19:35:52] <PetefromTn_> pcw_home: Hey man that grounding situation seems to have done the trick thanks.....peace
[19:35:53] <PetefromTn_> Pete
[19:38:59] <pcw_home> welcome, but keep tabs on it. if you ever see sserial errors or encoder errors,
[19:39:01] <pcw_home> this indicates a noise problem that needs to be investigated/corrected
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[19:45:47] <L84Supper> pcw_home: friction belt, the cogged type actually introduce vibration into the belt
[19:46:39] <pcw_home> Yeah I would expect that
[19:47:22] <pcw_home> do you print at constant speed (raster)?
[19:48:03] <L84Supper> pcw_home: yes, constant velocity 1ft/sec
[19:48:54] <L84Supper> pcw_home:using a belt, if we use a linear motor then speed is only constant when under the printheads
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[19:50:08] <PetefromTn_> Pete occasionally we get encoder errors immediately upon startup or shutdown what could cause that? Everything still works fine but it is annoying.
[19:50:14] <pcw_home> so a accurate but low resolution linear scale on the belt should do fine
[19:51:47] <L84Supper> pcw_home: yeah, i was just looking for input on other ways to add a scale to a conveyor belt
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[19:53:46] <L84Supper> pcw_home: there usually no time for trial end error with these systems, you have to pick whats best up front and then build it, you might only have 1-2 weeks to fix a poor choice before delivery
[19:53:52] <pcw_home> PetefromTn: still sounds like electrical noise, what happens electrically at startup and shutdown ?
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[20:01:59] <skunkworks> noise is always a pain...
[20:17:39] <Jymmm> Especially gangster rap
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[20:32:11] <PetefromTn_> not sure what you mean....we have now gotten some of the I/0 hooked up to the mesa so we can test the toolchanger stuff here...trying to get the power drawbar to cycle...peace
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[20:34:55] <PetefromTn_> Nothing really since we have the contactor setup seperately. The VFD comes on upon main disconnect as well as the coolant VFD.
[20:35:22] <PetefromTn_> We mostly get it with shutdown it seems...
[20:35:49] <andypugh> DC resistance is no 5.7A, and duty-cycle is set to max of 0.9, so a stalled motor could be drawing 3.8A. I doubt that it had time to melt the wire, and there was no sign of anything getting hot. There is a thermal fuse in there now. (well, a soldered joint, actually)
[20:36:40] <andypugh> I can see I might have to start this thing all over again using what I have learned, but I can't say I facny that, it's been well over a year I have been at it, on and off.
[20:37:23] <skunkworks> does it run better with higher inductance?
[20:42:14] <andypugh> Much better.
[20:42:23] <skunkworks> nea
[20:42:24] <skunkworks> neat
[20:42:36] <pcw_home> PetefromTn: something must happen at shutdown that generates a noise spike
[20:42:40] <Jymmm> andypugh: what exactly have you been doing? Designing a new motor?
[20:42:43] <andypugh> I really like these, I might have to make some: http://www.firebox.com/product/5869/Pallet-Coasters
[20:43:08] <andypugh> Jymmm: Yes, I needed an unusually shaped motor to embed in something.
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[20:43:26] <skunkworks> what we don't know... :)
[20:43:36] <Jymmm> andypugh: and a gearbox/right angled won't do?
[20:43:39] <pcw_home> andypugh: any chance of finding where the wire is broken?
[20:43:43] <andypugh> No.
[20:43:46] <PetefromTn_> Okay we will investigate... Honestly everything seems to be working quite well so far tho... Your card is amazing.
[20:44:05] <andypugh> I have fixed the wire now. If the solder goes, then I know what the problem is.
[20:44:06] <Jymmm> andypugh: popsicle sticks
[20:44:24] <skunkworks> PetefromTn_: make sure you take care how you are grounding everything.
[20:44:42] <andypugh> pcw_home: It had broken rather randomly half way between the first pole and the terminal block.
[20:44:50] <PetefromTn_> OH we are man....we just added another ground buss with HUGE leads from the main input area...
[20:45:24] <skunkworks> shields should only be grounded on one end... (also)
[20:45:44] <PetefromTn_> this will allow us to hookup the eight different solid state relays that control the 110v solenoids that operate the toolchanger pneumatics.... As well as anything else in the area that needs a solid ground
[20:45:57] <pcw_home> Maybe the wire got nicked (doesn't take much to nick 30 gauge)
[20:46:59] <Jymmm> pcw_home: (40ga NiChrome is INCREDIBLY resilient)
[20:47:51] <pcw_home> well NiChrome is a lot tougher than copper
[20:48:09] <pcw_home> but not the best for use as magnet wire
[20:48:20] <mrsun> silversoldering was kinda cool =)
[20:48:21] <Jymmm> Awwwwwwww
[20:48:37] <mrsun> just to see how it just sucks throught the joint ... blam =)
[20:48:38] <mrsun> fused
[20:49:01] <Jymmm> pcw_home: Still, 40ga was a LOT stronger than I ever expected
[20:49:41] <pcw_home> Try some Tungsten its even more impressive
[20:50:06] <andypugh> pcw_home: Yes, and that particular run got pulled out from under the other ones earlier as it was shorted to the stator. So it had been rather abused.
[20:50:15] <pcw_home> (I have some .001 tTungsten)
[20:50:23] <Jymmm> pcw_home: Heh, best I have is NiChrome. Would like to play with Titanium though
[20:50:31] <andypugh> I see why they epoxy-dip the stators.
[20:50:43] <Jymmm> andypugh: vibration?
[20:50:50] <andypugh> Piano wire is about as strong as anything gets..
[20:50:51] <pcw_home> Yes and vacuum impregnate
[20:51:21] <Jymmm> andypugh: at 40ga?
[20:51:46] <andypugh> The further you draw it down, the stronger it gets. (per unit area, of course).
[20:52:04] <Jymmm> Ah
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[20:52:47] <pcw_home> Tungsten is wierd though, its more like tough bamboo than metal when you break it
[20:52:52] <Jymmm> andypugh: I think I'll try the coasters too, I have some popsicle sticks around here somewhere
[20:52:59] <jdh> a guy I know rewound one of his underwater scooters with square wire, said he could get more power.
[20:53:20] <Jymmm> jdh: more surface area
[20:53:45] <PetefromTn_> Ooh I want an undewater scooter....
[20:54:02] <Jymmm> andypugh: There ya go....use triangle wire!!!!
[20:54:10] <andypugh> 40 AWG = 0.12mm, and in 4GPa carbon steel would have a breaking load of 10lbs.
[20:54:47] <andypugh> square wire packs tighter on the stator, so does offer advantages.
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[20:55:25] <Jymmm> /\ \/ /\ \/ /\ \/
[20:55:27] <andypugh> Triangular wire would be easier to handle, but would hurt your fingers.
[20:55:39] <Jymmm> andypugh: gloves
[20:55:48] <andypugh> It's a fiddly job.
[20:55:53] <Jymmm> ah
[20:56:04] <pcw_home> It is and heavy wire is worse
[20:56:23] <Jymmm> Ok, I'm off on a quest to find Grandma Maud's Red Beans and Rice!!!
[20:56:30] <andypugh> Right, I am going to bolt this motor back together, check that it runs, and put it to bed. I want to have it funcitonal.
[20:57:26] <Jymmm> Exceptionally good even if it is "just add water"
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[21:23:59] <DJ9DJ> gn8
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[22:01:22] <L84Supper> andypugh: have access to a TDR unit to measure the distance to the break in the wire?
[22:02:56] <L84Supper> http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/etep.1683/abstract Localization of mechanical deformations in transformer windings using time-domain representation of response functions
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[22:03:42] <WalterN> L84Supper: how much do 30watt SLS rapid prototyping machines run anyway?
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[22:04:40] <L84Supper> heh, http://www.additive3d.com/com3_lks.htm
[22:05:19] <WalterN> I've looked... I cant find prices
[22:05:39] <L84Supper> lots
[22:06:05] <WalterN> $80,000?
[22:06:10] <WalterN> more?
[22:08:20] <t12> dang an electron beam sinterer
[22:10:03] <L84Supper> the prices have nothing in common with what the parts actually cost to make one
[22:10:28] <WalterN> well yeah
[22:10:55] <WalterN> most have their own software systems they made themselves
[22:11:11] <L84Supper> all do, it's a big proprietary mess
[22:11:23] <WalterN> and bloody expensive because of that
[22:11:39] <WalterN> but I was kinda looking for a reference price :P
[22:11:43] <L84Supper> they all treat their tech like god delivered it to them only
[22:11:53] <WalterN> $60k? $100k?
[22:12:03] <L84Supper> same as industrial inkjet
[22:12:18] <PetefromTn_> Working on the solid state relays for the power drawbar and the toolchanger controls now...GETTING EXCITING!!
[22:12:22] <L84Supper> $250K
[22:12:30] <L84Supper> some $150K
[22:12:39] <WalterN> ok
[22:12:51] <WalterN> so more then a typical lathe or mill?
[22:13:20] <L84Supper> oh, yeah, "we have patents"
[22:13:32] <WalterN> alright
[22:13:47] <t12> the answer of course is
[22:13:56] <t12> feel free to try and build your own
[22:14:06] <WalterN> thats what I'm doing
[22:14:07] <L84Supper> even the big Chinese SLS printers sell for $1M
[22:15:03] <WalterN> I estimate that after all the parts and stuff to make my own, it will be about $3,000... heh
[22:15:15] <t12> heh
[22:15:24] <t12> does that include the metrology tools
[22:15:27] <t12> to tune it in
[22:15:29] <WalterN> give or take maybe $400 or so
[22:15:57] <L84Supper> I have wax+polymer cartridges with <1L here for 3D systems printers that sell for $500-800ea
[22:16:17] <L84Supper> ~$20 in raw materials inside
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[22:16:53] <WalterN> t12: what do you mean?
[22:17:39] <t12> i mean i think youll be way more than 3k into a sls
[22:17:50] <t12> by the time it works
[22:17:54] <WalterN> no, I dont think so
[22:18:17] <WalterN> laser system is about $1,300
[22:18:44] <WalterN> after everything... optics included
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[22:19:31] <WalterN> it does kinda depend on the kind of volume I want to work with though
[22:19:33] <L84Supper> WalterN: http://www.slideshare.net/yellow5india/6-ideas-to-buying-a-3d-printer-for-your-workplace
[22:21:06] <L84Supper> https://www.me.utexas.edu/news/2012/0712_sls_history.php
[22:21:54] <L84Supper> history in a nutshell ^^
[22:21:59] <WalterN> yeah
[22:22:09] <WalterN> kinda starts with the birth of lasers :P
[22:23:18] <WalterN> I wonder if there is a good way to SLS multi-colors
[22:23:29] <L84Supper> http://www.blueprinter.dk/ $13,186.00
[22:23:37] <L84Supper> might be the lowest cost
[22:23:54] <L84Supper> yeah, but I'm not sharing yet :)
[22:24:13] <L84Supper> have to pay the bills :)
[22:25:45] <WalterN> that thing is tiny
[22:26:38] <WalterN> thats like 6.5"x8"x6" roughly
[22:27:00] <WalterN> probably has a dinky laser
[22:27:41] <L84Supper> they are all about using the cheapest parts to maximize profits
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[22:28:12] <WalterN> L84Supper: should I build mine with steppers or servos?
[22:28:35] <L84Supper> depends on what you are doing
[22:28:42] <WalterN> all the things
[22:28:50] <L84Supper> same tradeoffs as with cnc
[22:28:57] <WalterN> well
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[22:29:13] <WalterN> its not physically moving material off the working space
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[22:31:37] <L84Supper> http://rapidproductdevelopment.biz/2011/11/28/3d-printers-for-shopaholics-and-santas-helpers/
[22:35:44] <WalterN> EOS... I think thats what I looked up a long time ago
[22:36:38] <WalterN> the one I was drooling over was $750,000 heh
[22:37:13] <WalterN> but anyways
[22:37:23] <WalterN> L84Supper: would you make one with steppers or servos?
[22:38:26] <L84Supper> low cost consumer version = steppers, pro version for 24/7 industrial use probably servo
[22:38:49] <WalterN> oh, do servos last longer in general?
[22:39:03] <L84Supper> also depends on if missing any steps will be a problem
[22:39:19] <L84Supper> it's more open vs closed loop
[22:40:17] <L84Supper> if you lose steps do you end up with a ruined part? does the printer home itself every layer? does servo give you higher print rates
[22:40:40] <WalterN> that can be avoided with an encoder
[22:41:49] <WalterN> but then, if encoders are on there, probably might as well use servos anyway
[22:42:23] <L84Supper> cheap galvos are open loop but driven like a speaker
[22:42:35] <WalterN> galvos?
[22:43:10] <L84Supper> http://www.laser2000.co.uk/laser_accessories.php?Category=49 for example
[22:43:41] <L84Supper> http://www.edmundoptics.com/electro-optics/electro-optics-accessories/dual-axis-galvanometer-based-optical-scanner/2717
[22:44:24] <L84Supper> http://www.thorlabs.com/newgrouppage9.cfm?objectgroup_id=3770
[22:45:01] <WalterN> oh those things
[22:46:14] <WalterN> I was going to set it up like a standard CNC mill
[22:46:34] <WalterN> (no galvos
[22:46:35] <L84Supper> thats the slowest way to do it
[22:46:36] <WalterN> )
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[22:47:55] <WalterN> well, I dont know how to do it any other way without issues with beam focusing
[22:47:57] <L84Supper> http://www.instructables.com/id/Arduino-Laser-Show-with-Full-XY-Control/
[22:49:12] <L84Supper> http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/LASER-LIGHT-SHOW-GALVO-laser-40k-scanner-kits/907279_508093280.html
[22:49:36] <L84Supper> http://www.ebay.com/itm/30Kpps-Galvo-scanner-system-laser-show-card-Max50k-/251210965701?pt=US_Stage_Lighting_Parts_Accessories&hash=item3a7d5722c5
[22:50:16] <L84Supper> have fun and don't burn your eyes out!
[22:52:04] <WalterN> L84Supper: http://search.newport.com/?q=*&x2=sku&q2=CAPX16
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[22:53:58] <zenek> nick micges
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[22:54:04] <WalterN> how do you get that to work with a galvo?
[22:54:48] <L84Supper> WalterN: there tons of literature available on building systems
[22:54:51] <WalterN> would have to move it around
[22:55:06] <WalterN> very rapidly...
[22:55:09] <WalterN> hmm
[22:55:47] <L84Supper> a collimated beam needs no focusing unless you want to reduce the spot size
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[22:56:26] <WalterN> oh well... yeah.. but need to get the beam in that state to begin with
[22:56:53] <L84Supper> then you typically expand the beam and then focus and reduce to the spot size desired
[22:57:50] <andypugh> Well, the widget is now working, so I spent an hour on the next thing (a mount for my probe)
[22:58:14] <L84Supper> http://search.newport.com/i/1/x1/pageType/q1/Products/q2/Optics/q3/Beam%20Expanders%20%2526%20Objectives/q4/Laser%20Beam%20Expanders/x2/section/x3/chapter/x4/family/nav/1/
[22:58:54] <L84Supper> http://www.edmundoptics.com/learning-and-support/technical/learning-center/application-notes/lasers/beam-expanders/
[23:00:21] <L84Supper> http://www.edmundoptics.com/learning-and-support/technical/learning-center/videos/?ytID=pjVb37f4GK4&playlistID=DEA14401C2BE6275&ref=right-column
[23:00:32] <L84Supper> http://www.edmundoptics.com/learning-and-support/technical/learning-center/eo-tech-tools/index.cfm?techToolID=7/&ref=right-column
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[23:01:58] <WalterN> that newport place has a local office here
[23:02:08] <WalterN> I should swing by and talk to them about it
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[23:16:17] <Skullworks> yup - if you don't use a beam expander properly you will burn through your mirrors.
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[23:21:52] <AR_> lies
[23:25:41] <L84Supper> or your eyes
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[23:41:12] <r00t4rd3d> http://i.imgur.com/wKo2XYg.jpg
[23:42:45] <AR_> amish riding lawn mower
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[23:56:18] <just> Hi, I'm several seconds new to IRC. I'm struggling to use kellycam currently on my homemade machine, and I am getting no where. I am ready to try linuxcnc, and I know I must install linux first but I am clueless how to do that. This must have been covered a billion times, where do I look to start the linux install process ???
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[23:57:52] <andypugh> just: http://linuxcnc.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=21&Itemid=4&lang=en
[23:57:56] <AR_> i am sure it is on the linuxcnc home page
[23:58:04] <AR_> just, here is a quick overview:
[23:58:16] <just> thanks, I'll pop over and look...
[23:58:17] <AR_> 1) Download linuxcnc image
[23:58:35] <AR_> 2) burn to disk using an image burning software (windows can do this)
[23:58:43] <AR_> 3) insert disk into computer
[23:58:47] <AR_> 4) boot from disk
[23:59:06] <AR_> 5) follow instructions to either run disk as liveCD to preview it or install it
[23:59:52] <AR_> 6) set up EMC configuration and make chips