#linuxcnc | Logs for 2013-04-12

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[00:01:01] <PetefromTn_> I currently have it hooked up to the pin 12 and the CM2 terminals. Right now without the computer control and just using the panel to run the motor the fan comes on and stays on as soon as power is on to the vfd... Cannot seem to figure out how to make it switch with the run signal only when the motor is spinning.
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[00:02:00] <andypugh> You can configure an output terminal to be RUN (Page 36).
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[00:03:26] <andypugh> Note what they say about the diode on the relay though.
[00:04:51] <PetefromTn_> Oh okay that may work better actually. I am gonna research these ideas here man thank you so much. I am gonna sign off now so I can go out there and play with it. Appreciate you.
[00:05:11] <andypugh> Time for me to sign off and sleep, too.
[00:05:37] <andypugh> Good luck. DOn't rush it.
[00:08:30] <PetefromTn_> thanks dude goodnight.
[00:09:23] <andypugh> Night all
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[00:46:17] <Valen> hmm http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/CNC-Milling-Machine-Bridgeport-series-2-cnc-mill-textron-/140947073081?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_15&hash=item20d119a839
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[01:24:16] <PetefromTn_> Wow that is an old looking machine. It also has that massive longish millhead rail mounting. Dunno if all the series II have that but I don't think so. Kinda reminds me of a tracer mill.
[01:35:11] <skunkworks> steppers
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[01:36:26] <L84Supper> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=72Ig_Dk9pbA&feature=youtube_gdata_player I called them earlier, and it doesn't play music when it spins :(
[01:36:28] <PetefromTn_> Surely not but it does say that in the ad...
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[01:38:00] <PetefromTn_> What's am RGV stage?
[01:38:20] <PetefromTn_> Looks EXTREMELY WELL built
[01:38:23] <L84Supper> 2 axis rotary stage
[01:38:42] <L84Supper> RGV is just a model number/name
[01:39:29] <L84Supper> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nlAfy_ha57M High Speed Gimbal
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[01:43:25] <Tom_itx> what's the application?
[01:44:41] <Valen> PetefromTn_: which one?
[01:44:59] <PetefromTn_> WHich one what?
[01:45:07] <L84Supper> heh
[01:45:24] <L84Supper> the gimbals are for a 3D printer
[01:45:48] <Valen> PetefromTn_: Looks EXTREMELY WELL built
[01:46:26] <PetefromTn_> First one...
[01:46:38] <PetefromTn_> THis looks very nice too...https://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&v=dO6pUaRlZTI&feature=endscreen
[01:47:15] <PetefromTn_> The Hoyt Bow I mean...
[01:47:29] <L84Supper> what bow?
[01:48:14] <PetefromTn_> ROFL...
[01:48:25] <PetefromTn_> Anyone into Archery?
[01:51:23] <r00t4rd3d> anyone know what a fromag keyseater is?
[01:52:28] <jdh> soemthign that cuts keyways?
[01:52:37] <r00t4rd3d> http://www.reddit.com/r/CNC/comments/1c68mm/hi_im_currently_operating_a_fromag_keyseater/
[01:52:45] <r00t4rd3d> i guess
[01:53:12] <jdh> they make dedicated machines for that?
[01:53:18] <r00t4rd3d> i guess
[01:57:19] <r00t4rd3d> http://imgur.com/a/JDTXM#0
[01:57:28] <r00t4rd3d> i like his vaccum table thing
[01:57:43] <r00t4rd3d> http://imgur.com/a/JDTXM/layout/blog
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[02:22:57] <PetefromTn> hello..
[02:26:37] <PetefromTn> Okay guys I managed to get the shielded cable run from my 7i77 to my Hitachi wj200 VFD as per Andy's suggestions. Now I need to configure the two outputs from field I/O to set the FWD and REV signals in the VFD. Looking thru signals I see spindle CW and CCW signals. How can I configure these signals to pins 18 and 19 on the 7i77? Trying to figure this one out now...
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[02:29:35] <Connor> PetefromTn: Let me look to see what the Pnpconf program does with that..
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[02:30:56] <PetefromTn> Okay man but I thought this was a custom setup IE no encoder feedback and such...
[02:31:29] <Connor> Well... I need to look at the base config first to make sure we have no conflicts.
[02:33:37] <PetefromTn> Okay but why would we have conflicts...
[02:34:27] <Connor> Well. Because when we ran it.. I think you assigned the encoder and output stuff already.. I just need to double check.
[02:35:40] <PetefromTn> will this work?
[02:36:39] <PetefromTn> 4. Spindle Direction
[02:36:39] <PetefromTn> If you have direction control of your spindle the HAL pins motion.spindle-forward and motion.spindle-reverse are controlled by M3 and M4. Spindle speed Sn must be set to a positive non-zero value for M3/M4 to turn on spindle motion.
[02:36:39] <PetefromTn> To link these pins to a parallel port pin, put something like the following in your .hal file making sure you pick the pin that is connected to your control device.
[02:36:39] <PetefromTn> net spindle-fwd motion.spindle-forward => parport.0.pin-18-out
[02:36:39] <PetefromTn> net spindle-rev motion.spindle-reverse => parport.0.pin-19-out
[02:36:51] <Connor> No.
[02:36:59] <Connor> because parport isn't the mesa card.
[02:37:12] <PetefromTn> I mean with mesa information, that is right out of the manual silly..
[02:37:54] <PetefromTn> something like 5i25.7177.0.pin18 etc...
[02:40:51] <Connor> to be honest.. I'm not sure.
[02:41:04] <Connor> My spindle only uses a single output.
[02:41:45] <Connor> That sounds right.
[02:41:55] <PetefromTn> really how? You gotta have speed and direction and usually grounds for each..
[02:43:56] <PetefromTn> I am also gonna want to setup a spindle drive enable signal unless that is the analog out too typically.
[02:44:06] <Connor> Sorry. Use 1 output for on/off. 1 output for CW/CCW and then 1 output for PWM which converts to 0-10v
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[02:45:09] <Connor> In your case. forward and reverse on separate pins... is the other accepted way. no need for on/off.. because of both are off.. drive is off.
[02:45:57] <PetefromTn> Well that is fine I would like to find a way to only use one pin for direction but I am not sure how to do that on the wj200...
[02:46:16] <Connor> I don't think you can.
[02:46:32] <PetefromTn> I dunno I need to read the manual some more...
[02:46:51] <Connor> it's either 1 pin for on/off + 1 pin for dir + 1 pin for analog out.. or 1 pin for cw + 1 pin for ccw + 1 pin for analog out.
[02:48:00] <PetefromTn> Looking at Lee's Hal file I notice that there are no pins designated in any of the spindle lines of code. Not really sure what it looks like but I would expect to see a pin number somewhere. There is spindle Cw anc CCW in the halui area of the file tho...
[02:48:29] <Connor> His may use -10 to +10
[02:50:07] <PetefromTn> I suppose...
[02:51:00] <Connor> So, looking at the manual... Looks like FW is pin 1, RV is pin2 ?
[02:51:10] <Connor> (on the VFD not the mesa)
[02:51:48] <PetefromTn> Well actually the intelligent inputs 1-7 are configurable so in essence yes..
[02:52:17] <Connor> okay. so, yea.. your going 2 burn 2 I/O pins.. 1 for CW and 1 for CCW
[02:52:49] <Connor> What *I* would do.. is go ahead and config the hal file.. and leave the VFD unconnected..
[02:53:09] <Connor> set the spindle speed and direction.. and then use the hal configuration to verify the pins are active..
[02:53:15] <PetefromTn> yeah page 27 of the manual shows what any of the configurable pins can be set to...just input the correct code.
[02:53:17] <Connor> and then take a volt meter and check the output voltage.
[02:53:54] <PetefromTn> Config the hal file is what I don't understand LOL..
[02:54:15] <Connor> okay. let me look at the one I copied from your macihne..
[02:56:31] <Connor> Okay.. You have two lines in your .hal file..
[02:56:33] <Connor> net spindle-cw <= motion.spindle-forward
[02:56:33] <Connor> net spindle-ccw <= motion.spindle-reverse
[02:56:55] <Connor> I think they need to read something like this..
[02:58:00] <PetefromTn> If you look at the manual for the VFD page 27 there is an intelligent input setting called FWD/REV and it says three wire interface...trying to figure out what the hell that means.
[02:59:05] <Connor> net spindle-cw motion.spindle-forward => hm2_5i25.0.7i77.0.pin18
[02:59:05] <Connor> net spindle-ccw motion.spindle-reverse => hm2_5i25.0.7i77.0.pin19
[02:59:17] <Connor> note: I'm not sure of the name of the pin.. you'll have to verify that..
[02:59:29] <PetefromTn> Okay that looks like what I expected are you sure that will work?
[03:00:08] <Connor> Well.. I'm saying.. try that.. with the VFD disconnected from the mesa.. and check the output signals first.
[03:00:20] <Connor> using hal config and a volt meter. :)
[03:00:34] <Connor> 3 wire interface is, CW, CCW, Analog
[03:00:42] <Connor> I'm guessing.
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[03:02:35] <PetefromTn> Well if ONE pin input can be setup for fwd and rev then no actually..
[03:04:57] <Connor> Still have to have a on/off or enable.. I don't think they trust the 0-10v analog to be 0v for the OFF position.
[03:05:41] <PetefromTn> dunno...reading.
[03:06:40] <L84Supper> http://emc2arduino.wordpress.com/ Emc2Arduino
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[03:08:30] <Connor> time to eat.. back in a bit.
[03:08:47] <PetefromTn> enjoy...
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[03:17:43] <PetefromTn> Connor when you get back here can you email me that copy of my hal and INI files so I don't have to try to take it out of the machine with my phone LOL....thanks dude.
[03:19:25] <L84Supper> http://forums.reprap.org/list.php?155 I get a headache just reading through these posts
[03:25:54] <mr_new> good morning everyone
[03:26:20] <PetefromTn> whaddya mean ya get a headache? Morning new.
[03:26:26] <FinboySlick> mr_new: Good morning.
[03:29:51] <mr_new> hm i need a credit card -.-
[03:29:56] <L84Supper> PetefromTn: misguided expert opinions
[03:30:32] <PetefromTn> L84Supper: ah I see what you mean just reading thru a couple posts...
[03:33:08] <L84Supper> http://www.repetier.com/ was their solution vs build on Linuxcnc
[03:34:46] <L84Supper> http://reprap.org/wiki/Reprap_host_software is another
[03:35:23] <L84Supper> or http://smoothieware.org/
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[03:58:22] <zultron> L84Supper, I'm working on putting together an open-source CAD/CAM/CNC workflow.
[03:59:46] <zultron> LinuxCNC obvi. I have PyCAM 0.5.1 packages under review for Fedora, and about to fix tool setting persistence for 0.6.
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[04:00:35] <zultron> FreeCAD, which package I co-maintain in RPMFusion (OpenCASCADE licensing issues keep it out of Fedora).
[04:01:24] <zultron> FreeCAD has a promising CAM module in early stages of development. Some knowledgeable folks behind it.
[04:03:16] <zultron> They're creating a new FreeCAD "CAM workbench". They'll lift the post-processor from HeeksCNC and have various sources for TPGs.
[04:04:12] <PetefromTn> Never used freecad, how does Sheetcam or Cambam work for linuxCNC?
[04:22:52] <L84Supper> zultron: our current interest is in CAM for additive manufacturing
[04:23:27] <zultron> That's great. PyCAM needs a little TLC.
[04:23:52] <zultron> Have you been talking with Lars?
[04:24:03] <L84Supper> it's either start from PyCAM or Heeks
[04:24:29] <zultron> You mean HeeksCNC running with HeeksCAD?
[04:25:21] <L84Supper> not so much any CAD
[04:25:24] <zultron> Or using parts for a new project?
[04:25:44] <zultron> Right, but HeeksCNC was a plugin for HeeksCAD, iiuc.
[04:26:26] <L84Supper> haven't decided yet, use parts of the others and start over or just build from where they left off
[04:26:51] <zultron> A common workflow is to design the part in FreeCAD, bring an STL model to HeeksCAD with the HeeksCNC plugin (or else PyCAM), and then g-code to LinuxCNC of course.
[04:27:20] <L84Supper> serious commercial users will have NX, Mastercam or similar
[04:27:28] <zultron> Yup.
[04:27:39] <zultron> Is that your market?
[04:27:53] <L84Supper> but for prosumer maybe something open source will be agood fit
[04:28:37] <L84Supper> yeah, at first it's just OEM's, later there will be low cost consumer type printers
[04:29:16] <L84Supper> right now there isn't even a commercial CAM tool for additive manufacturing
[04:29:35] <L84Supper> it's the wild frontier
[04:29:39] <zultron> Ha, didn't know that. Sounds like an opportunity.
[04:30:01] <L84Supper> up until now there weren't any 3d printers that were worthy
[04:30:09] <zultron> And you're not interested in CAD?
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[04:30:33] <zultron> What're they lacking that would make them worthy?
[04:30:35] <L84Supper> they all were just glacially slow pro machines that just sliced STL's for 2.5D printing
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[04:31:12] <L84Supper> well it would be nice if FreeCAD could do what NX does :)
[04:31:16] <zultron> Heh, that's true. Voxelizing a model seems an obvious way to do it.
[04:31:22] <L84Supper> or even solidworks
[04:32:13] <L84Supper> but there are enough CAD tools around
[04:32:28] <zultron> Another reason for PyCAM & FreeCAD is the whole chain can be tied together with python.
[04:32:35] <L84Supper> CAM is the real missing piece since the printers add materials vs cut/remove
[04:32:42] <L84Supper> and the tools are different
[04:33:11] <L84Supper> nozzles, printheads, lasers, DLP projections etc vs rotating cutting tools
[04:33:20] <zultron> Right.
[04:34:06] <L84Supper> so it's part printer driver and part cnc machine
[04:34:15] <roh> well.. seems the tools for both arent what they could be. (both additive and substractive)
[04:34:41] <zultron> I think PyCAM's as far ahead as any of them. Lars said it would be easy to add 5-axis (currently 3 only), so maybe that means it's flexible enough to do additive, too.
[04:34:43] <roh> atleast the open ones or affordable
[04:35:22] <L84Supper> 5-axis would be a good start
[04:35:55] <L84Supper> if we add tools for 3d printing then the closed commercial vendors would be copying PyCAM soon
[04:36:11] <zultron> 5 axis would put it clearly ahead of any other free/libre project I've seen.
[04:36:12] <L84Supper> they haven't even considered it yet
[04:36:30] <roh> i'd be happy with 3 axes
[04:36:50] <L84Supper> Siemens is really interested in seeing what the g-code and tools end up looking like
[04:37:05] <zultron> Sounds like additive would put it clearly ahead of any commercial solution.
[04:37:06] <t12> http://www.todayandtomorrow.net/wp-content/uploads/2009/05/axes.jpg
[04:37:43] <L84Supper> yeah, people tend to find the 3-axis PyCAM toolpath generation slower than simulation or actual cutting times on a machine
[04:38:06] <zultron> Which version were they using?
[04:38:10] <L84Supper> zultron: yes, it would
[04:38:44] <L84Supper> might generate some good press, like linux being ahead of M$ with new hardware support
[04:39:06] <zultron> 0.5.1 was horrible. Some cowboys rode through town a year or two ago and fixed up the data structures and redid the numerical with numpy. Supposed to be much better now.
[04:39:21] <zultron> But I can't stand using it without tool setting persistence.
[04:39:32] <zultron> So that's my first job. :)
[04:40:00] <zultron> Fixing what the last cowboy broke, heh
[04:40:43] <L84Supper> there are lots of STL models floating around already, people need to be able to generate tool paths
[04:41:12] <L84Supper> and the repcrap is just that
[04:42:04] <L84Supper> they are so self absorbed that their software will stay with the toy GGG printers
[04:42:36] <L84Supper> but real printers need CAM that is fast and works well
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[04:44:39] <L84Supper> https://github.com/Aeva/voxelpress she started working on some of this, but it's focused on GGG
[04:46:12] <L84Supper> http://voxelpress.org/rasterization_demo.html
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[04:49:35] <roh> heh. in our hackspace there are also people working on a new kind of slicer
[04:49:58] <roh> really fast and it should generate better printouts from what ive seen so far.
[04:50:06] <r00t4rd3d> http://imgur.com/a/KJ2Tb#0
[04:50:09] <roh> no source/tryouts yet.
[04:50:09] <r00t4rd3d> thats cool
[04:54:07] <L84Supper> after 1/2 bottle of scotch it doesn't have the same effect
[04:55:29] <L84Supper> http://www.inscc.utah.edu/~tgarrett/Snowflakes/Gallery/ 3d gallery of snowflake images captured in freefall
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[05:15:10] <brummer> well for the average user, CAM can take a while, but if you're doing CAM for a production part that you want to optimize for tool wear, speed etc you might spend a lot of time on it, but then that part is getting runs hundreds or thousands of times in production. That's part of the reason there is a gap between "professional" and hobby cam. That and hobby capability of cnc manufacturing is still relatively new in the grand scheme
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[06:05:03] <tjtr33> today I scored "Numerical Control Part Programming" by Childs. an APT manual, with workbook, 4$ at thrift shop
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[06:10:38] <archivist> tjtr33, you lucky person!
[06:12:38] <tjtr33> i'll bring it & the Kral book if you like, to the fest
[06:13:14] <archivist> I have the kral, I cannot come to the fest though
[06:13:47] <tjtr33> will try to scan then & will let u no
[06:14:13] <archivist> thanks
[06:14:43] <tjtr33> if you're interested this from egypt, a course in 2013 http://www.staff.zu.edu.eg/awafa/browseMyFiles.asp?path=./userdownloads/My%20Courses/4th%20Prod/CAM/Ch%201/
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[06:30:13] <mrsun> hmm i wonder ... how to set my ball turning attachment to turn a 24mm diameter ball :P
[06:30:24] <mrsun> trial and error maybe :P
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[06:36:53] <Waz> wow this blew my mind. . . im a machinist and a student of cyber security and computer forensics... and it never crossed my mind that there may be a linux control for cnc machines
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[06:57:51] <DJ9DJ> moin
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[10:47:28] <jthornton> morning
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[14:19:11] <IchGuckLive> hi all B)
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[14:28:53] <L84Supper> why would a stainless steel belt (12" W x few feet long) supplier have difficulty surface grinding the welds smooth?
[14:29:02] <L84Supper> http://www.belttechnologies.com/applications/vacuum-belts/
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[14:30:07] <IchGuckLive> stainless gets hard under welding and braks ad grinsding
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[14:30:53] <L84Supper> nahh
[14:34:41] <DJ9DJ> what is grinsding?
[14:36:33] <jdh> it's like grinding, with an extra s
[14:36:41] <DJ9DJ> ah! :D
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[14:37:01] <DJ9DJ> and braks ad is like breaks at, right?
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[14:38:38] <PetefromTn__> mornin'
[14:39:01] <DJ9DJ> hi pete from tennessee
[14:41:04] <ReadError> is it possible to change the steplen for just 1 axis?
[14:41:21] <ReadError> i see it in the hal params
[14:43:05] <PetefromTn__> DJ9DJ: Hey DJ..
[14:45:36] <IchGuckLive> ReadError: you can change to your needs
[14:45:54] <IchGuckLive> there is a calculation ods out for this
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[15:14:06] <L84Supper> it's clear to me now that conveyor belts and CNC don't often meet
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[15:16:14] <TekniQue> I programmed this last week: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kdiLBfHo9sY
[15:16:15] <Tecan> (kdiLBfHo9sY) "Lokaverkefni í Iðntölvur og Vélmenni" by "biggih" is "Tech" - Length: 0:08:14
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[16:02:09] <mr_new> which files do i need for pncconf?
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[16:54:30] <IchGuckLive> hi all
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[17:57:39] <r00t4rd3d> grinder design: http://i.imgur.com/AkURdLY.jpg
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[18:07:36] <Loetmichel> re @ home
[18:09:21] <IchGuckLive> Loetmichel: wochenende
[18:09:27] <Loetmichel> jo
[18:09:38] <Loetmichel> oh sorry, yes ;-)
[18:09:41] <IchGuckLive> BBQ ready at 20+ deg
[18:10:35] <IchGuckLive> today at WASGAU 1t of Bratwurst wars sold out
[18:12:23] <IchGuckLive> im off By
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[18:25:29] <Connor> WOW, It's dead on here today.
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[18:25:41] <skunkworks> it is friday..
[18:25:56] <Connor> yea.. yea.
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[18:26:28] <skunkworks> you would think that there would be more people chatting - but fridays usually seem deader
[18:26:37] <andypugh> Darn it! 200 turns all in the wrong direction.
[18:26:46] <skunkworks> yeck
[18:26:56] <rob_h> iv just spent the day playing with my new toy :) http://innovative-rc.co.uk/EMC/CitizenL16/CitizenL16-3.JPG
[18:27:20] <rob_h> a nice sliding head CNC with sub spindle pickup
[18:27:31] <skunkworks> to be converted?
[18:27:43] <rob_h> currently it works but i already hate way it works lol
[18:27:47] <skunkworks> heh
[18:27:56] <skunkworks> rob_h, where are you located?
[18:28:00] <rob_h> mitsubishi control id love to Linuxcnc it but need dual control suport
[18:28:07] <rob_h> in the sunny UK
[18:28:10] <rob_h> well more rainy
[18:28:13] <skunkworks> heh
[18:28:42] <rob_h> just working on a twin turret power tooled lathe at mo for retro
[18:29:00] <Connor> skunkworks: So, Pete has all 3 axis working now.. still trying to tune the Z so it doesn't whine under the load.. having some issues with that..
[18:29:19] <Connor> He's hooking up his VFD... need a little insight on that..
[18:29:39] <rob_h> VFD got to do spindle orientation?
[18:29:54] <Connor> Looks like he needs 2 additional outputs.. 1 for CW and 1 for CCW
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[18:30:44] <Connor> rob_h: Yes. Encoder is on order.. and the unit has a 180 sensor... I'm going to build him a simple circuit with a opto that'll combine the two.
[18:30:44] <skunkworks> I don't remember how the k&t is setup. It is 0-10v I think it is 2 pins - forward adn rev
[18:31:05] <skunkworks> he needs a mask..
[18:31:14] <Connor> Yea. His is 0-10v, CW, and CCW
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[18:31:33] <Connor> skunkworks: We opted for a hardware solution vs using the mask.
[18:31:38] <rob_h> what VFD you using? as id love to change mine so a much better VFD that can do vector control to 8000rpm
[18:32:54] <rob_h> this was my attemtped at using a VFD to do it all... linuxcnc controls the VFD http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D6dGYsXAPIU
[18:32:55] <Tecan> (D6dGYsXAPIU) "EMC2 Spindle orientation with VFD" by "roberth270" is "Tech" - Length: 0:00:50
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[18:33:34] <Connor> http://www.driveswarehouse.com/documentation/Hitachi/WJ200R.pdf
[18:33:54] <Connor> It's a Hitachi WJ200
[18:34:45] <rob_h> looking now
[18:34:46] <skunkworks_> Connor: http://pastebin.ca/2357303
[18:35:12] <skunkworks_> I am using a comp (gearshift16) that I make for our 16 speed spindle..
[18:35:54] <Connor> okay, So, your using a GPIO
[18:36:39] <skunkworks> yes
[18:36:52] <Connor> (10:59:04 PM) Connor: net spindle-cw motion.spindle-forward => hm2_5i25.0.7i77.0.pin18
[18:36:52] <Connor> (10:59:04 PM) Connor: net spindle-ccw motion.spindle-reverse => hm2_5i25.0.7i77.0.pin19
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[18:37:11] <skunkworks> and it look like I invert one of the pins..
[18:37:18] <Connor> that's what I was thinking last night.. let me post up a copy of his config.. it'll be a bit older..
[18:37:21] <skunkworks> maybe not that elegent
[18:38:20] <Connor> skunkworks: http://pastebin.ca/2357310
[18:38:27] <Connor> copy of his .hal file..
[18:38:41] <Connor> as generated from the Pncconf program.. and tinkered with for the MPG.
[18:39:46] <skunkworks_> Connor: don't know how current.. http://pastebin.ca/2357312
[18:39:52] <skunkworks_> it is pretty messy
[18:40:43] <Connor> Yours is using substitutions for the board name.. which board is that for ?
[18:40:54] <skunkworks> 5i20 - there are 2
[18:41:23] <Connor> so, net spindle-cw motion.spindle-forward => hm2_5i25.0.7i77.0.pin18
[18:41:36] <Connor> isn't the right way..
[18:41:44] <andypugh> Connor: motion.spindle-speed-out => abs.0in
[18:42:01] <andypugh> abs.0.out => 7i77.analogout
[18:42:19] <andypugh> abs.0.is-positive 7i77.pin18
[18:42:20] <archivist> rob_h, a lot less boxed up than the later ones , I want a Citizen too one day
[18:42:31] <skunkworks> Then I cheated and used the abs sign output for spindle dirction..
[18:42:38] <andypugh> abs.0.is-negative => 7i77.pin19
[18:42:39] <skunkworks> (as andypugh showed)
[18:43:05] <skunkworks> well - similar.
[18:43:09] <Connor> 7i77.pin19 is that short hand or something ?
[18:43:12] <rob_h> archivist, yea has a big guard over it just not on there but no real guard on the Z head stock which is abit well, as it does do 10,000rpm on main spindle
[18:43:32] <andypugh> Connor: Yes, I am too lazy to type
[18:43:34] <andypugh> hm2_5i25.0.7i77.0.pin19
[18:43:54] <Connor> so, that's not using GPIO..
[18:44:10] <Connor> so confused on all the input/output options on the 7i7x boards
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[18:44:12] <archivist> rob_h, I have an old Bechler (cam auto sliding head) but its not running yet
[18:44:19] <andypugh> (and that is _your_ shortening, I think, as it is something more like hm2_5i26.0.7i77.0.0.output-19
[18:44:43] <Connor> yea, I'm not sure what it is..
[18:45:49] <andypugh> rob_h: Your VFD works better than mine.. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3oTJNEVpvYY
[18:45:50] <Tecan> (3oTJNEVpvYY) "Can you use an ordinary induction motor as a Servo?" by "andy pugh" is "Tech" - Length: 0:01:36
[18:45:51] <rob_h> archivist, yea rember seeing the pics... this one is L16 VII but with 20mm option spindle . did get alot of guide bush's with it tho
[18:46:23] <andypugh> Connor: Open a terminal window. Type halcmd show pin *7i77* and see what there is.
[18:46:41] <archivist> rob_h, you got lucky!, I am lacking in bushes so far
[18:46:45] <Connor> I would. But, I'm no where near the machine right now..
[18:46:47] <rob_h> andypugh, i spent a good day on it to get it there tweaking VFD PID and linuxcnc its only in Hz mode not vector, as that drive has a 4000rpm vector limit :(
[18:46:54] <Loetmichel> Tecan: if your VFD has "vectoring" and an encoder input: yes
[18:47:50] <rob_h> if i knew what i know now about inverters id probly do with a Yaskawa A1000 or Control techniques Unidrive
[18:48:36] <rob_h> archivist, www.floydautomatic.co.uk are only people in UK right now i know of that do alot of swiss stuff collet wise
[18:48:56] <archivist> rob_h, am aware of them :)
[18:49:54] <rob_h> did pick some up off ebay tho for £11 each new had to find it by collet number tho
[18:49:56] <archivist> I did get some prices a few years ago for this machine when it was at the clockworks
[18:50:36] <archivist> boss at the time grumbled about costs and the machine never got used there
[18:52:07] <Connor> wait.. WTF is pin 18 and 19 for output.. I don't even see that.. I see IN 0..15 IN 16..32 OUT 0...7 and OUT 8...15
[18:52:16] <rob_h> shame i have some long shafts i need to make so it will be perfect for it, beats trying to make them on a standard lathe
[18:52:41] <Connor> I got those numbers from Pete last night.. he might be thinking of something else..
[18:55:27] <andypugh> Any reason not to use 00 and 01?
[18:56:15] <Connor> I think that's what we're going to use.. I think he got confused because we used 16 & 17 for the MPG.. I think he was thinking next 2.. which would be 18, 19.. but those are inputs.. and we need outputs. :)
[18:56:23] <r00t4rd3d> http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/435742530/udoo-android-linux-arduino-in-a-tiny-single-board
[18:56:40] <r00t4rd3d> thats pretty crazy
[18:56:45] <archivist> roh, yes very true, I missed a bechler bush and housing on fleabay because I was doing something, just emailed the seller to see if still available
[18:56:50] <archivist> rob_h,
[18:57:39] <andypugh> r00t4rd3d: Now _that_ ought to work a treat for LinuxCNC
[18:57:45] <r00t4rd3d> yeah
[18:57:55] <andypugh> lots of nice IO.
[18:58:55] <r00t4rd3d> now to figure out how to get the linuxcnc devs to leave the caveman era.
[18:59:18] <rob_h> kinda have too many machiens for the space i have now
[18:59:20] <andypugh> Whats $100 in real money?
[19:00:03] <andypugh> £65. About the same as an Atom board. But with more handy IO.
[19:00:38] <r00t4rd3d> an arm port is what we really need
[19:01:09] <r00t4rd3d> and figure out usb over parallel
[19:01:16] <andypugh> I thought we had one?
[19:01:37] <andypugh> Lots of folk running LinuxCNC on Beagleboard, and a few on RPi.
[19:01:42] <r00t4rd3d> i dont think there is a official one
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[19:02:18] <andypugh> LinuxCNC don't _do_ "official". We do ad-hoc and random.
[19:02:23] <r00t4rd3d> lol
[19:03:20] <r00t4rd3d> i dream of the day i can just mount a tablet on the side of my cnc machine and be done with it.
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[19:03:58] <jdh> fork a copy and get to it
[19:04:40] <r00t4rd3d> tablet to a usb controller
[19:04:53] <jdh> whats' the USB fixation?
[19:05:13] <r00t4rd3d> modern
[19:05:26] <AR__> you an do that
[19:05:28] <AR__> it's not a dream
[19:05:33] <andypugh> USB is hard;y modern. Thunderbolt looks more promising.
[19:05:35] <zultron> andypugh, how many is 'lots'? Where can they be found in the wild?
[19:05:47] <zultron> (beagleboard)
[19:06:14] <Connor> r00t4rd3d: I would rather do ethernet vs usb.
[19:06:22] <r00t4rd3d> im okay with that
[19:06:37] <r00t4rd3d> as long as a usb to ethernet adapter would work
[19:06:45] <andypugh> zultron: Err, well, there is you, I think ?
[19:06:54] <Connor> No. you don't want any USB in the mix.
[19:07:11] <zultron> Charles Steinkueler is doing it, and with his PRU stuff, no less.
[19:07:21] <andypugh> Maybe "lots" is an exaggeration.
[19:07:31] <andypugh> "More than none" ?
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[19:07:39] <r00t4rd3d> if its not a standard port then blaa
[19:07:40] <zultron> Someone posted a video of controlling his 3D printer with an RPi.
[19:07:58] <zultron> I think that 1 is lots more than 0, for sure. :)
[19:08:22] <mr_new_> can anyone explain me, how to setup the .xml and the .pin files for pncconf?
[19:08:24] <zultron> Important thing is it's possible for the first time.
[19:08:30] <andypugh> An infinite factor of Beagloeboards are running LinuxCNC.
[19:08:53] <r00t4rd3d> every computer you buy today has a usb port but they dont all have a parallel or ethernet port
[19:08:59] <andypugh> mr_new: You have a custom firmware?
[19:09:10] <andypugh> r00t4rd3d: Ethernet?
[19:09:20] <mr_new_> andypugh: yes
[19:09:39] <Connor> No ethernet? Um.. yea.. right
[19:10:06] <jdh> the Pi's ethernet is vis usb
[19:10:13] <andypugh> mr_new_: I am not sure that pncconf is worth the bother in that case.
[19:10:31] <andypugh> Not if you need to create your own XML file.
[19:10:48] <andypugh> Or do you have the file, and need to know where to put it?
[19:10:53] <mr_new_> is there a script for doing that out of the fpga.pin file?
[19:11:14] <mr_new_> andypugh: nope i dont have it yet, just compiled firmware with source code
[19:11:15] <andypugh> I think that Pete@Mesa can do it.
[19:11:27] <pcw_home> USB is a disaster for anything needing timely access
[19:11:36] <pcw_home> or even reliability
[19:11:45] <andypugh> Just edit HAL by hand. pncconf is for noobs!
[19:11:58] <pcw_home> Ethernet is a much better interface
[19:12:01] <mr_new_> andypugh: its first time i want to use a mesa card
[19:12:01] <andypugh> (Seriously, you get exactly what you want that way)
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[19:12:21] <andypugh> What is special about your fimrware?
[19:12:53] <mr_new_> i need 3 encoders and 4 pwm gens on 5i25
[19:12:57] <mr_new_> thats it
[19:13:51] <andypugh> OK, so pretend you have a 7i77 firmware on there. The pin names will all be the same.
[19:14:09] <andypugh> Then use copy and paste to clone the extras.
[19:14:21] <andypugh> (Not sure the 7i77 uses PWMgen, thinking about it).
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[19:14:36] <Connor> It does. PWM to do the analog.
[19:14:54] <pcw_home> There are no plain old PWM and encoder configs for the 5I25 (as there are no daughtercards that match)
[19:15:34] <andypugh> Maybe the trick is to pretend it is a 5i20 then, and search/replace the card name?
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[19:16:19] <pcw_home> Yes just use a 5I20 .ini and hm2-servo.hal no pncconf needed
[19:16:53] <jdh> I have a bunch of USB based photo-multiplier-tube bases that work well (with usb). The timing info comes from the device though.
[19:16:59] <pcw_home> copy 5i20.ini to 5i25.ini and change about 2 words in 5i25.ini
[19:18:40] <pcw_home> Oh USB can work and even occasionally work reliably its just not very trustworthy IMHO
[19:20:52] <jdh> they work well in this application. as long as windows doesn't decide to re-enumerate
[19:24:38] <pcw_home> exactly USB is not know as the Universal Serial Botch for nothing
[19:26:17] <Loetmichel> PCW: and the maximum of 1sec for a packet round trip diesend make it very "realtimey"
[19:26:26] <Loetmichel> doesend
[19:26:37] <Loetmichel> -d+t
[19:26:44] <Connor> doesn't
[19:26:49] <Loetmichel> ok
[19:29:05] <pcw_home> Well non latching connectors and non isolated/ not even AC couple LVDS make it very susceptible to noise
[19:29:07] <pcw_home> basically every think you DO NOT want in an industrial I/O connection
[19:39:11] <andypugh> There is something about Kapton tape that I like more than I should
[19:40:41] <pcw_home> Kapton is pretty neat
[19:41:01] <Connor> expensive too for the good stuff.
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[19:54:36] <Connor> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WLIo7TA82xE
[19:54:51] <Connor> Didn't know someone already had LinuxCNC running on RaspberryPi
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[20:09:24] <quitte> Hi. will this controller work without much trouble: http://www.ebay.de/itm/High-quality-CNC-TB6560-3-Axis-Stepper-Motor-Driver-Controller-Board-with-fan-/281027463399?pt=Motoren_Getriebe&hash=item416e8ac8e7 ?
[20:15:40] <andypugh> quitte: Yes, as long as the documentation supplied with the board id for the board supplied.
[20:17:03] <andypugh> OK, next time I try winding this motor I will check for shorts-to-stator after each pole is wound. Not at the end, after assembly, to find that they are all shorted.
[20:17:41] <skunkworks> yikes - are you using wire that is coated with wax instead of varnish ;)
[20:18:12] <quitte> andypugh: if it works with mach3 it is likely to work? http://www.ebay.de/itm/New-1-PCS-5-Axis-CNC-Breakout-Board-For-Stepper-Driver-Controller-mach3-Hot-EP98-/121091524022?pt=AU_B_I_Electrical_Test_Equipment&hash=item1c319e05b6 is in the price league where i would instantly buy
[20:19:25] <archivist> quitte, if you buy the first board you dont need the second
[20:19:56] <quitte> do I need anything for the second then?
[20:20:10] <andypugh> quitte: The second board is only a "breakout" it connect the parallel port to stepper drivers. The first board actually was a set of stepper drivers.
[20:20:27] <quitte> ah
[20:21:15] <archivist> I would prefer the second and better drivers than those TB6560 types
[20:21:51] <quitte> I don't think I need very good drivers. it's for a proxxon mf-70
[20:24:10] <andypugh> TB6560 ought to be OK. Just never, ever, disconnect the motors with the drives powered up.
[20:24:24] <archivist> else the chips die
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[20:26:06] <quitte> so it needs a load at all times?
[20:26:36] <archivist> while powered yes
[20:27:03] <PCW> This is true of most motor drives, live plugging of power/load is not a good thing
[20:27:28] <quitte> so it can be killed by software when no motors are connected,too?
[20:27:46] <PCW> No
[20:28:33] <PCW> its the energy stored in the motors inductance that causes the problem
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[20:28:42] <Connor> just plugging / unplugging with the board powered up can kill it.
[20:28:48] <quitte> even with bipolar windings?
[20:29:01] <PCW> Yes
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[20:30:51] <quitte> weird. why?
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[20:32:01] <PCW> when you disconnect a large inductance from its current source you get all kinds of nasty
[20:32:02] <archivist> inductance and back emf
[20:32:03] <PCW> (A high frequency arc discharge which generate full current HV spikes with picosecond rise times into the drive)
[20:32:55] <PCW> thats what I said :-)
[20:34:18] <PCW> You can test this yourself with a 1.5V battery and your stepmotor...
[20:34:35] <quitte> lights out and watch for the arc?
[20:35:28] <PCW> Sure or for greater effect hold onto the step motor leads when you disconnect
[20:35:40] <quitte> shouldn't the coils resistance be enough to limit the voltage when disconnecting?
[20:35:48] <PCW> (it will bite!)
[20:36:25] <archivist> the voltage will not notice the internal resistance
[20:36:56] <PCW> voltage across an inductance is L di/dt so the faster the current changes the higher the voltage
[20:37:27] <archivist> quitte, remember there is no current at that time after disconnection
[20:37:27] <PCW> disconnection is ~!infinitely fast
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[20:38:39] <archivist> the collapsing field induces the voltage
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[20:39:13] <PCW> so I was being facetious about holding the leads, you _will_ get a shock it you do this
[20:39:35] <archivist> I wont feel a thing
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[20:40:07] <PCW> well thats because you know better
[20:40:38] <archivist> I am over here not connected :)
[20:41:02] <quitte> neither do i see an arc nor do i feel something
[20:41:04] <archivist> I remember the ring of kids at school and a coil
[20:41:41] <archivist> flat battery
[20:42:21] <PCW> or you may have the wrong wires (does the step motor hold in place when the battery is connected?)
[20:42:44] <quitte> hardly
[20:43:23] <PCW> maybe its a high voltage stepmotor or weak battery
[20:45:36] <quitte> it's a Howard 1-19-4200
[20:45:47] <quitte> modified for bipolar mode
[20:47:41] <quitte> the coils try to keep up the current, right. i don't see how the resistance of the coil wouldn't limit the voltage then
[20:48:16] <PCW> The resistance will limit the current, not the voltage
[20:49:26] <PCW> the voltage is only limited by the stray capacitance
[20:49:38] <PCW> (winding capacitance)
[20:49:56] <PCW> and perhaps insulation breakdown
[20:50:26] <Jymmm> READ THE REVIEWS http://www.amazon.com/BIC-Cristal-1-0mm-Black-MSLP16-Blk/product-reviews/B004F9QBE6/ref=dp_top_cm_cr_acr_txt?ie=UTF8&showViewpoints=1
[20:50:55] <quitte> that's embarrassing. thanks for making me rethink that
[20:51:30] <PCW> I learned first by being shocked...
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[21:01:33] <andypugh> PCW is quite good at electronics :-)
[21:02:22] <quitte> it sure explains how all those H-Bridges died on me
[21:02:49] <Loetmichel> PCW: IIRC the voltage is limited by the decaying speed of the magnetic field?
[21:04:23] <Loetmichel> quitte: normally all Stepper h-bridges have "backwards" diodes to the power supply rails, to short these back EMF into the Power supply.
[21:04:47] <archivist> cheaper ones dont :)
[21:04:48] <Loetmichel> ... all Stepper h-bridges that are not ill-designed ;-)
[21:05:20] <PCW> its limited by stray capacitance (if you disconnect with something like a vacuum relay you will find you have made a RF oscillator)
[21:05:42] <Loetmichel> PCW: hrhr, i know ;-)
[21:06:42] <archivist> I have a reed in a transmission line pulse generator here
[21:07:19] <PCW> with air, you get a rise in voltage till the air breaks down (causing those Picosecond rise time HV spikes into the drive-- killing it)
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[21:08:58] <PCW> If you know the winding capacitance you can calculate the highest voltage possible (1/2CV^2 = 1/2LI^2)
[21:09:11] <Loetmichel> ... unless the protecting diodes are fast enough and/or the fets in the bridge can cope with that kind of power
[21:10:16] <Loetmichel> thats why tha selfbuild L297/L6203 have to have FAST recovery diodes ;-)
[21:11:11] <PCW> diodes usually dont help much (too slow) you can add output capacitance but this lowers efficiency
[21:12:01] <PCW> (the work fine for normal use just not against an arc)
[21:12:22] <Loetmichel> arc shouldnt happen wiht these small motors
[21:12:28] <Loetmichel> not enough energy stored
[21:12:44] <PCW> if you pull the motor off live you will get an arc
[21:12:56] <Loetmichel> ok, thats right
[21:13:24] <Loetmichel> thats the surest way to destroy an TB6560, btw ;-)
[21:13:34] <Loetmichel> pulling a motor live
[21:13:48] <PCW> thats what I was saying its tough to protect against
[21:14:06] <PCW> its possible but not trivial
[21:14:17] <Loetmichel> hmm, 100nF parallel/1R in series on each terminal?
[21:14:53] <PCW> yes that can help but it wastes power
[21:15:00] <Loetmichel> should cope with the di/dt and doesent interfere with normal PWM that much
[21:15:15] <Loetmichel> a bit
[21:15:34] <Loetmichel> i mean: normal motors have about 3A max per phase
[21:15:55] <Loetmichel> so at 1R the max you waste is 3W per coil
[21:16:05] <quitte> with a battery that works better i still don't get arcs or shocks
[21:16:06] <Loetmichel> ahem...
[21:16:11] <Loetmichel> 9W... ups
[21:16:19] <PCW> CV^2*F
[21:17:17] <Loetmichel> thats a bit much...
[21:17:52] <PCW> and tough on the drivers current sensing
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[21:18:44] <quitte> at 3V i saw an arc. still no shock, but i guess that's still bad enough
[21:21:17] <PCW> Keep at it you will eventually get a shock :-)
[21:21:52] <quitte> :)
[21:33:12] <Loetmichel> PCW: i can remember times when i wasnt really awake until i repaired the first chevin Amp that day and inevitabley touched the SMPS cooling fins...
[21:34:01] <Loetmichel> with +- 160V DC against GND on them ;-)
[21:35:02] <DJ9DJ> gn8
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[21:36:54] <PCW> Yow.
[21:36:56] <PCW> I think my worst shock was from tube equipment (found myself on the ground looking up and wondering what happened)
[21:38:09] <Loetmichel> ... typical british construction these chevin Amps... half genius / half "WTF?!?"
[21:38:11] <Loetmichel> :-)
[21:38:49] <PCW> +-160V reminds me of a friend that used to work on ION implanter deflection amps (+-10KV op amps)
[21:40:11] <PCW> They used color TV shunt regulator triodes as output devices
[21:43:29] <Loetmichel> http://cobrasse.free.fr/images/chevin_q6/00chevin_q6_inside_top.jpg <- the older models hat the two SMPS switch boxes (aluminium with the HV symbol) right and left with 2 "Fan style" Heatsinks on it, the one carriing 160V + against the chassis and the other with -160V in respect to the chassis
[21:45:01] <Loetmichel> and whenever you had to unscrew tha FET heatsink scews on the bottom of the pic you inevitabley sled off an touched the chassis AND the heatsinks ;)
[21:45:09] <PCW> Doesn't really look like something to work on 'hot' :-)
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[21:46:04] <Loetmichel> PCW: wasnt hot
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[21:46:35] <Loetmichel> but the two rows of caps in the top are 1800µF each... and the primary power rails...
[21:46:40] <Loetmichel> any questions?
[21:47:13] <Loetmichel> you could pug this amps out ans STILL hear about a minit music ;-)
[21:47:22] <Loetmichel> minute
[21:47:52] <PCW> Well needs a 'DANGER' LED
[21:48:21] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: What do you think the arcing is for?
[21:49:37] <Loetmichel> which arcing?
[21:49:53] <PCW> a Blinky DANGER LED
[21:49:53] <Jymmm> the 10KV arcing =)
[21:50:06] <Loetmichel> ???
[21:50:50] <Loetmichel> PCW: later i had a 1kw halogen Par64 bulb in the toolbox to "quic dischage" the power rails ;-)
[21:51:35] <Loetmichel> still lits up for about 2-3secs on each power rail ;-)
[21:52:12] <PCW> Well this is CNC related. servo DC bus supplies often do the same thing (with a brake resistor) at power off
[21:52:48] <Loetmichel> these amps would have been great DC servo amps...
[21:53:47] <Loetmichel> having up to 1500W sin per channel @ 2 ohms, short circuit, overload protect and dc to 50khz bandwith ;-)
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[21:55:22] <Loetmichel> and could deliver the 2 times 1500W sin 1khz indefinetly (I tested that!)
[21:56:40] <Loetmichel> (the pictured is a Q6, four times 600W sin in 4 ohms in 2HE 19")
[21:57:18] <PCW> A servo amp can be much simpler (HF above a few KHz is not of much use)
[21:57:22] <Loetmichel> tha A3000 had all primary caps installed and only two volume knobs
[21:58:14] <PCW> and 2% linearity is more than enough
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[22:00:03] <Loetmichel> hmm, the quad six would still be a good couce...
[22:00:05] <Loetmichel> choice
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[22:01:25] <Loetmichel> maybe i get me one used. i have some 48V 300W dc servos here, could make a good Gantry CNC with 4 of them, a q6 and some 4 little µcs
[22:01:57] <Loetmichel> whre do you get this kind of power in just 2HE with 12kg?
[22:02:09] <Loetmichel> and the PSU integrated?
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[22:05:17] <Loetmichel> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Chevin-Q6-4-channel-Power-Amp-good-working-order-/140908140150
[22:05:27] <Loetmichel> noth THAT expensive used, either ;-)
[22:05:30] <Loetmichel> not
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[22:24:13] <andypugh> Loetmichel: A friend used to work for a company that made lighting dimmers. Approximately half (for technical reasons) ran chassis-live. Your guess...
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[22:24:56] <Loetmichel> no idea
[22:25:05] <Loetmichel> lifted neutral?
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[22:26:03] <andypugh> No, I mean that my friend, as a service engineer, was never quite sure if he had a live-chassis installation or not.
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[22:27:32] <Loetmichel> ah
[22:27:50] <PCW> andypugh does the firmware update stuff in LinuxCNC work reliably?
[22:27:51] <Loetmichel> touch it, then you know ;-)
[22:28:09] <Loetmichel> @ andypugh
[22:28:13] <andypugh> Loetmichel: Ah! I see the problem, he had _far_ too much hair: http://www.coopercontrol.com/lightlink/lighting-home4.shtml
[22:28:19] <PCW> sserial remote firmware update I mean
[22:28:48] <andypugh> PCW: As far as I know, it has always worked for me.
[22:29:13] <andypugh> I updated a 7i73 last week with no issues
[22:29:24] <PCW> and I guess it could be script-able
[22:29:49] <Loetmichel> andypugh: you mean like me in my stage rental times? -> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=2835
[22:29:56] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=2812
[22:29:58] <Loetmichel> ;-)
[22:30:36] <andypugh> Possibly. I think that the instructions in the manpage (which lack the traditional manpage unhelpfulness) are enough to work with for the infrequency of the procedure.
[22:31:25] <PCW> is it in master now?
[22:32:27] <Loetmichel> ... now i have MUCh less and greyer hair... but in exchange 20kg more fat on the hips ;-)
[22:33:04] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=14070 ;-)
[22:33:56] <PCW> if it could be scripted to 'update7i73 [CH# ]' I think we (Mesa) should include a directory of all the latest firmware and scripts for updating
[22:36:42] <andypugh> It is in Master.
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[22:37:27] <andypugh> I am unsure about scriptability, as you need to have two terminal windows open to see what is going on.
[22:38:53] <L84Supper> andypugh: are you working on your inside out motor again?
[22:41:17] <andypugh> yeah, I am rewinding it, but the first attempt that consumed the sober half of my friday night ended in failure.
[22:42:40] <andypugh> It is _so_ close to working for what I want. (which is special enough I am looking at patents)
[22:43:16] <PCW> we will have somewhat beefier driver in a bit
[22:43:35] <PCW> 48V 20A
[22:44:07] <PCW> dont know how close you are to saturation
[22:44:16] <andypugh> I don't really need beefier, I need a better-designed motor. The first iteration was something like 50W 2V 25A...
[22:44:54] <PCW> no bigger hammer theory?
[22:45:23] <PCW> the new drive can certainly burn it out faster
[22:45:28] <andypugh> I am trying for 100W 24V 4A.
[22:45:53] <PCW> what RPM?
[22:46:09] <andypugh> 400rpm would be fine
[22:46:38] <PCW> Thats tough needs good magnetics/wire space
[22:47:17] <andypugh> I should just stop working on making it work and get on with the paperwork. But to be honest I am more interested in making it work and uisng it.
[22:47:42] <PCW> how many poles?
[22:47:59] <andypugh> 12 poles, 14 magnets, DLRK.
[22:49:15] <andypugh> https://plus.google.com/photos/108164504656404380542/albums/5747722155741347649/5685034302549414130
[22:49:39] <andypugh> I suspect significant problems in the magnetic circuit.
[22:51:37] <PCW> not a lot of room
[22:53:04] <r00t4rd3d> http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/435742530/udoo-android-linux-arduino-in-a-tiny-single-board
[22:53:14] <r00t4rd3d> PCW solder some parports on those will you?
[22:53:15] <r00t4rd3d> :D
[22:53:30] <PCW> might need more exotic lamination materials
[22:53:41] <andypugh> Indeed, I am trying to squeeze stuff in. That seems to be a common theme in everything I design..
[22:54:19] <andypugh> I do have some proper (if not exotic) laminations.
[22:54:58] <PCW> r00t4rd3d a step/dir breakout would be trivial
[22:55:37] <WalterN> for my laser prototyping/engraving machine, should I use steppers or servos?
[22:55:38] <r00t4rd3d> http://probotix.com/breakout_boards/pbx-2/
[22:55:47] <andypugh> To be honest I have a convincing proof-of-concept. I should stop now, but I want to use it to make stuff.
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[22:56:14] <PCW> Well get the patent before someone else does
[22:58:48] -!- mhaberler has quit [Quit: mhaberler]
[22:59:13] <PCW> Did you know that there's a theory that the permeability (and permittivity) of free space is determined by the density of virtual particle pairs?
[23:02:13] <andypugh> I think I did know that. Is that related to the Casimir effect?
[23:02:22] <PCW> Yes
[23:03:23] <PCW> If true the speed of light is not constant, but will have measurable noise in the femtoseconds/meter region
[23:03:50] jd is now known as Guest90026
[23:05:11] <PCW> mindblowing that 'simple' physical constants may be determined by such exotica
[23:06:46] <andypugh> I keep meaning to get a job in fusion research, It is what I want to do, and I can't believe it is such a low priority.
[23:07:03] Guest90026 is now known as _jd
[23:07:25] <andypugh> A slight problem is that the only module of my Pysics degree I actually failed was "Plasma Physics"
[23:07:45] <PCW> well, details...
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[23:17:48] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: !!!!!
[23:17:58] <SWPadnos> hi Jymmm
[23:18:25] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: Did you ever make it out this way?
[23:18:38] <SWPadnos> nope, I skipped the conference a couple of weeks ago.
[23:18:51] <Jymmm> Ah, ok. and the ESC ?
[23:18:54] <SWPadnos> I'll be there on the 21st though
[23:18:56] <SWPadnos> yep
[23:19:20] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: Ok cool, I though we missed a chance to hook up is all.
[23:19:27] <SWPadnos> heh, nope
[23:19:36] <SWPadnos> well, yep, but because I was on the other side of the country :)
[23:19:46] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: doesnt count =)
[23:20:28] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: Once you reminded me early, I forgot, then you call "Im across from gate 3 on the curb" DOH
[23:20:41] <SWPadnos> heh. I remember
[23:20:52] <SWPadnos> mostly because the idiot^Wperson next to me was smoking
[23:20:54] <Jymmm> "Uh uh uh uh, I'm stuck in traffic, uh,, yeah that's it"
[23:21:06] <SWPadnos> yeah, too many birds inthe way
[23:21:09] <SWPadnos> in the
[23:21:19] <Jymmm> and air molecules
[23:21:27] <SWPadnos> yeah, they're pretty numerous
[23:21:35] <Jymmm> too many air molecules blocking the roads
[23:21:38] <r00t4rd3d> https://www.youtube.com/tv?vq=medium#/browse
[23:21:52] <r00t4rd3d> settings, pair, scan = android youtube remote controll
[23:22:38] <r00t4rd3d> wrong channel but some of you guys can probably use that too
[23:23:25] <r00t4rd3d> works with a networked tv too
[23:24:45] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: Just be sure to send out smoke signals way in advance
[23:25:03] <r00t4rd3d> Jymmm, where you been, jail?
[23:25:10] <SWPadnos> yep. I get in around 11:00 PM (if the plane's on time), so I'll get a cab to the hotel
[23:25:23] <SWPadnos> I'm there all week though (leave Friday morning-ish)
[23:26:28] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: Ah, ok. I'll be up at that time, but you'll probably be dawg tired.
[23:26:35] <SWPadnos> yep
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[23:27:29] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: participating this time or just a spectator?
[23:27:52] <SWPadnos> not speaking, just trying to listen
[23:28:08] <SWPadnos> Mayim Biyalik is doing one of the keynotes this year, which could be cool
[23:28:16] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: Ah, ok. So whats the brownie prize this year?
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[23:28:25] <SWPadnos> dunno, I was just wondering that
[23:29:04] <FinboySlick> L84Supper: Just saw that the Rhombus EOMA68 made slashdot today. You aren't involved with those guys anymore, are you?
[23:32:07] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: http://www.ubmdesign.com/sanjose/expo/prizes-and-giveaways.php
[23:32:43] <SWPadnos> that's more like drawings and freebies at various booths
[23:33:16] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: Looks like an intel atom mboard, I'll take two please =)
[23:33:54] <SWPadnos> yeah, that Atom board is the only item that doesn't list a booth number, so maybe that's the thing
[23:34:01] <SWPadnos> in which case I'd like two also :)
[23:34:49] <r00t4rd3d> d525mw are stupid expensive again
[23:34:50] <r00t4rd3d> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Intel-D525MW-Mini-ITX-Motherboard-w-Atom-525-CPU-/200542103383?pt=Motherboards&hash=item2eb13da757
[23:35:25] <r00t4rd3d> he must be out again
[23:36:09] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: heh
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[23:43:30] <PCW> use a GA-E350N, its $75
[23:44:42] <PCW> or one of the Intel 2(5678)00 MBs
[23:46:32] <r00t4rd3d> you have used those GA-E350N?
[23:47:01] <PCW> Other linuxCNCer's have with good results
[23:47:22] <PCW> its in the list on the wiki
[23:47:45] <r00t4rd3d> not a fan of documentation.
[23:47:47] <r00t4rd3d> :D
[23:47:48] -!- ravenlock [ravenlock!~ravenlock@enlightenment/developer/ravenlock] has joined #linuxcnc
[23:48:38] <r00t4rd3d> diving in blindly is more my style
[23:50:02] <r00t4rd3d> this summer i want to get backups of most things, probably try that one
[23:50:17] <PCW> 7468 servo thread 4869 base thread jitter
[23:50:27] <PCW> (from wiki)
[23:50:40] <r00t4rd3d> link?
[23:50:42] <FinboySlick> pcw: Sorry I keep bugging you with noob questions but here's another one: Timing report after synthesis shows about 6ns slowest time for a simple xor gate. But it also shows that I'm using IO Buffers. I assume the logic is this slow only because it assumes that my block is connected to physical pins or is that also typical of timing for internal LUTs?
[23:51:27] <PCW> Yes that because its routed to the outside
[23:51:54] <FinboySlick> I'm relieved. I was trying to figure out clock speed and that would have been very disappointing.
[23:52:23] <PCW> LUTs are more in the fraction to couple of nS region
[23:52:56] <FinboySlick> Once again, thank you for your wisdom.
[23:53:08] <FinboySlick> I hope you see some money from the cards I bought.
[23:53:25] <PCW> not sure about the wisdom, just accumulated hard knoks
[23:53:49] <FinboySlick> I was half-expecting to talk to you when I called with my credit card info.
[23:53:58] <FinboySlick> (no idea how big a shop mesa is)
[23:54:29] <FinboySlick> Not complaining though, the lady was charming.
[23:54:32] <SWPadnos> You probably got to talk to Lily, though there was one time a male answered the phone.
[23:54:45] <PCW> I am not competent to deal with paperwork...
[23:55:04] <PCW> you will probably get lily or perhaps Oleg
[23:55:22] <SWPadnos> heh, me either. I still need to send back that 5i22 that has the PCI memory region issue
[23:55:25] <FinboySlick> It was likely Lily, unless Oleg is female.
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[23:55:58] <PCW> nope burly Russian
[23:57:12] <FinboySlick> PCW: Heh, you should negotiate a comissions for cards sold through IRC ;)
[23:57:26] <PCW> SWPadnos: thats been months...
[23:57:34] <SWPadnos> yeah. I've been traveling a lot
[23:57:38] <PCW> ;-)
[23:57:49] <SWPadnos> only around 50K miles so far this year ...
[23:59:05] <PCW> 'Im a traveling man'
[23:59:07] <PCW> well time to get some dinner (our weekly night out)
[23:59:18] <PCW> Night all
[23:59:22] <SWPadnos> oh yeah. time to hang out with the wife. see you
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