#linuxcnc | Logs for 2013-04-11

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[00:42:15] <r00t4rd3d> http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:1329
[00:42:20] <r00t4rd3d> making that
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[00:43:05] <tjb1> two more interviews to go to :(
[00:45:17] <r00t4rd3d> Bus Boy jobs are hard to get.
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[00:46:52] <tjb1> yeah
[00:46:57] <tjb1> that is what I am applying for
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[00:52:07] <r00t4rd3d> you would probably be better off applying for a dishwasher job, they hire any ol retard to do that
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[00:57:20] <r00t4rd3d> trying to get a job in austin
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[01:02:11] <tjb1> i need a job that pays more than minimum wage
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[01:18:26] <Valen> tjb1: strip for webcams
[01:18:57] <r00t4rd3d> "<tjb1> i need a job that pays more than minimum wage"
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[01:38:21] <PetefromTn> Hey guys...
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[01:44:47] <r00t4rd3d> and girls, (tjb1)
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[01:46:31] <PetefromTn> Yup and girls..
[01:50:11] <r00t4rd3d> well saying girl might be an overstatement. Pre-op tranny.
[01:52:31] <PetefromTn> Dude you are not well....not at all.
[01:52:36] <r00t4rd3d> lol
[01:53:52] <PetefromTn> Well I managed to do some more tuning work on the VMC tonight with Connors help.
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[02:09:46] <L84Supper> http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/b9creations/b9creator-a-diy-high-resolution-3d-printer
[02:10:12] <L84Supper> for the lazy DIYers
[02:13:24] <Valen> tjb1: is a girl? oh, umm, sorry if my earlier comment about webcams was offensive
[02:15:28] <L84Supper> middle_aged_guy_beer_belly_cam.com
[02:18:04] <PetefromTn> Yeah thanks but no thanks LOL..
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[02:22:09] <L84Supper> http://tinyurl.com/cmhqjfx M12 X 1.25 Perma-Coil Thread Repair Kit, helicoil cheap imitation? anyone try this brand?
[02:26:54] <L84Supper> ah it's cheaper since it doesn't come with the drill bit
[02:28:43] <tjb1> no Valen, I am not a girl
[02:29:13] <Valen> oh ok then
[02:29:17] <Valen> go strip for money
[02:31:54] <Jymmm> He'd have to issue refunds.
[02:32:22] <Connor> PetefromTn: I just found a whole slew of pc817 opto's in my stock.
[02:33:20] <PetefromTn> Cool man can we use those? Ran some programs with the machine after you left and it seemed to run real nice and smooth.
[02:33:45] <Connor> Yea. Those are the ones Lee suggested.. Exact model. :)
[02:34:30] <PetefromTn> SWEET!!
[02:35:16] <Connor> So, I need to come up with a simple schematic for the circuit.
[02:35:20] <PetefromTn> Anyone got a link to a youtube video of a full blown 3d machining project I mean constant contouring etc..
[02:35:54] <PetefromTn> Connor: So I am gonna get the differential encoder tomorrow then? I think that is what we decided.
[02:36:32] <Connor> Yea. We don't have to use it differential if we don't want to.. but, if you need it, we can. no extra line driver needed. How much was it compared to the other one ?
[02:36:51] <PetefromTn> About the same really...standby
[02:37:52] <PetefromTn> first one.....http://www.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?lang=en&keywords=heds-5540%20a06&WT.term=heds-5540%20a06&WT.mc_id=Sensors,%20Transducers&WT.medium=cpc&WT.campaign=Sensors,%20Transducers&WT.srch=1&WT.content=text&WT.source=google&cur=USD
[02:38:25] <PetefromTn> second one....http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/HEDL-5540%23A06/516-2750-ND/2219462
[02:38:31] <PetefromTn> Same price apparently...
[02:40:01] <Connor> yup. go for the 516-2750-ND
[02:41:31] <mr_new> why not the amt102?
[02:41:31] <Connor> http://www.monoprice.com/products/subdepartment.asp?c_id=102&cp_id=10232#1023216
[02:42:22] <Connor> Cat6 cables.. shielded ones at the bottom.
[02:42:45] <mr_new> http://www.digikey.com/product-search/en/sensors-transducers/encoders/1966131?k=amt102
[02:43:01] <PetefromTn> Oh do you think we need the cat cables, I thought we were gonna try the original cable unless it did not work...
[02:43:23] <Connor> mr_new: He's looked at those.. but, it's concerned about melting the plastic hub with this spindle.
[02:43:34] <Connor> PetefromTn: Oh yea.. too many thoughts going through my head.
[02:44:01] <mr_new> i use them
[02:44:02] <PetefromTn> mr_new: Hey man thanks for the link. I actually have an AMT here and while they make a great encoder I honestly don't trust the plastic coupling to the shaft on a 12k rpm motor that controls my spindle alignment for a toolchange.
[02:44:10] <jdh> the encoder shaft will get hot enough to melt plastic?
[02:44:38] <PetefromTn> No honestly it is not really the heat I am worried about it is slippage...
[02:44:59] <PetefromTn> Anyone got a link for the 3d milling with linuxCNC videos?
[02:45:43] <mr_new> if it becomes as hot as you are worry about the plastic you shoulg get worry about your bearings
[02:46:13] <Connor> It's a BIG spindle.. 7.5kw ?
[02:46:21] <Connor> or was that HP.. I don't remember.
[02:46:49] <mr_new> i use them on a 3kw motot
[02:46:49] <PetefromTn> Again not worried about heat....
[02:47:12] <PetefromTn> It is a 5.5kw 7.5HP motor that spins at 12k RPM max
[02:47:40] <mr_new> PetefromTn: i was just to slow tipping on my phone
[02:49:48] <PetefromTn> okay man cool. As I said NOTHING against AMT encoders, I have four of them on my last machine and they are excellent. The commercial nature of this machine and the high speed motor just makes me nervous about using an encoder that clamps onto the shaft using plastic press fittings. This encoder will be responsible for the safety of my toolchanger and I honestly don't want anything that is not dead reliable and these have
[02:49:48] <PetefromTn> setscrew locking to the shaft with steel collars.
[02:50:49] <jdh> what load is on the disk
[02:52:22] <PetefromTn> None....
[02:55:16] <Connor> The likely hood is slim that the AMT102 would have issues.. but, for $23.00 more, he can have a alum hub, and zero chance.. So, If $23.00 buys him the extra peace of mind.. the that's a bargain.
[02:55:35] <Connor> then that's a bargain...
[02:55:59] <jdh> sure
[02:56:35] <jdh> I'm all for other people spending money
[02:56:48] <Connor> Uh Hu. :)
[02:57:24] <PetefromTn> Jeez man you must work for CUI or something LOL
[02:57:36] <Connor> Who ?
[02:58:55] <Connor> I *DO* like the way they install.. using that little tool.. makes it real easy to get dead on. I had a PITA installing 100 count USDigital ones on my robot. of course, part of the problem was the cast iron magnet core I was using to mount the encoders too.. it broke a few drill bits and taps..
[02:59:13] <Connor> and my shaft adapters aren't exactly the best in the world.. but, it works.
[03:00:07] <PetefromTn> CUI makes AMT encoders as far as I recall.
[03:00:46] <Connor> Yea. I'm talking about the Optical USDigital ones similar to what your getting... I had 3 of them given too me. 100 Line, no index.
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[03:02:22] <PetefromTn> Trying to find youtube videos of actual 3d milling on linuxCNC...any ideas
[03:02:29] <jdh> search youtube
[03:03:52] <PetefromTn> that's what I am doing....
[03:04:09] <jdh> oh :) you should make one after you are done
[03:04:56] <jdh> the only really good videos I've seen were 4/5 axis and proprietary controls
[03:05:19] <PetefromTn> yes exactly....
[03:06:01] <Valen> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R_udQwy1hJk&list=PL04F6B774F23F6873 perhaps?
[03:06:02] <Tecan> (R_udQwy1hJk) "cutting footpegs with EMC2" by "zyeborm" is "Tech" - Length: 0:00:37
[03:07:05] <jdh> most are more 2.5d-ish
[03:09:01] <PetefromTn> YEAH BABY....that's what I'm talking about.....just wanted to see a mill running linuxCNC do some actual constant contouring and make something cool. Once my mill is operational I have been wanting to machine a guitar for myself, nice to know it can do the deed...
[03:09:42] <jdh> 316 guitar?
[03:10:12] <PetefromTn> Whazza 316 guitar?
[03:10:19] <PetefromTn> you mean stainless LOL?
[03:10:24] <jdh> yep
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[03:11:33] <PetefromTn> Actually believe it or not I was thinking ACRYLIC!! like this....http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2U3SC_jGoNk
[03:11:35] <Tecan> (2U3SC_jGoNk) "My acrylic guitar." by "TheArchangels" is "Music" - Length: 0:00:21
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[03:33:22] <mr_new> just 45mins till bed...
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[03:34:08] <PetefromTn> Ok man nitey nite!!
[03:35:01] <mr_new> what does this mean?
[03:35:32] <PetefromTn> it means have a good night and sleep well whaddya think it means?
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[03:36:16] <r00t4rd3d> can you pocket wood with a laser/
[03:36:18] <r00t4rd3d> ?
[03:36:41] <mr_new> i just didnt know what nitey means.... here we dont speak english
[03:36:56] <mr_new> and its 5.35am
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[03:40:38] <mr_new> and i worked for 11h
[03:41:55] <PetefromTn> oopz sorry man. Where are you again?
[03:43:23] <mr_new> ch
[03:44:15] <mr_new> switzerland
[03:44:17] <R2E4> I'm hating Boss 9 controls about now.
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[03:49:54] <r00t4rd3d> i dont get it, ch switzerland?
[03:55:07] <r00t4rd3d> im guessing your travel between the 2
[03:55:09] <PetefromTn> Got a neighor nearby who has a Bridgie Boss CNC knee mill with a dead control he wants to retrofit it. Said the control was no fun even when it was working LOL
[03:55:11] <r00t4rd3d> you*
[03:55:36] <r00t4rd3d> slap a tb6560 on it
[03:56:05] <r00t4rd3d> $39.95
[03:59:11] <PetefromTn> whazza TB6560..
[03:59:25] <r00t4rd3d> cheap controller
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[04:00:42] <r00t4rd3d> http://www.ebay.com/itm/1PCS-NEW-CNC-TB6560-3-Axis-Stepper-Motor-Driver-Controller-Board-/250968135258?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3a6eddd65a
[04:01:00] <PetefromTn> aah...
[04:01:14] <PetefromTn> Well I think I am done. Goin' ta bed guys...enjoy.
[04:01:49] <r00t4rd3d> see ya tranny
[04:01:59] <r00t4rd3d> :D
[04:02:30] <r00t4rd3d> http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-3-Axis-TB6560-Motor-Driver-Stepper-Board-Controller-With-Box-For-CNC-Router-/261188446908?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3cd00b6abc
[04:02:40] <r00t4rd3d> that one is actually better
[04:02:50] <r00t4rd3d> 35 more though
[04:04:15] <r00t4rd3d> how the hell do you turn off spell check on ebay
[04:04:31] <r00t4rd3d> everytime i type something in the search box it changes it
[04:05:48] <r00t4rd3d> their Live Search I guess
[04:06:02] <r00t4rd3d> sucks
[04:06:11] <R2E4> your not adhering to eay's spelling parameters.
[04:06:20] <R2E4> :-)
[04:06:53] <r00t4rd3d> really bugs me, tried to find out how to turn it off and cant
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[04:15:53] <mr_new> r00t4rd3d: i thought so yesterday
[04:25:05] <GammaX> anyone have a stepper setup on there mill?
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[06:41:07] <DJ9DJ> moin
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[12:23:17] <PetefromTn> Hello fellas
[12:25:20] <jthornton> morning Pete
[12:25:37] <PetefromTn> Mornin' JT
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[12:34:18] <mr_new_> anyone here familar with xilinx tools?
[12:36:42] <PetefromTn> nope sorry...
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[12:41:22] <mr_new_> not so easy to compile an mesa firmware
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[12:42:18] <R2E4> cradek: you here?
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[13:06:34] <mr_new_> as i hate errors while compiling -.-
[13:07:24] <R2E4> I've never compiled anything without errors.....
[13:07:30] <mr_new_> specialy when i dont know an ide^^
[13:07:41] <AR_> usually i compile without errors
[13:07:48] <mr_new_> R2E4: errors arent the problem, but not knowing the ide
[13:07:57] <mr_new_> and xilinx ide is not easy i think
[13:08:30] <AR_> loll
[13:08:35] <AR_> it sucks
[13:08:45] <R2E4> I didnt mean it errors out and aborts the compile, if you look while it is crunching, you will most proably see a few errors.
[13:08:59] <R2E4> I allways do.
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[13:09:49] <AR_> xilinx errors are usually ver vague
[13:09:54] <AR_> very*
[13:10:29] <AR_> "connection may cause high skew"
[13:10:35] <mr_new_> it cant find a library function
[13:10:43] <AR_> what function
[13:10:45] <mr_new_> but if i add, i get more errors
[13:10:57] <mr_new_> sslbp
[13:11:36] <AR_> ask azonenberg in ##electronics
[13:11:49] <R2E4> BP boss 9 with Aspire is not good. Bridgeport post does not work with Aspire. It is for the EZTrack BP.
[13:11:54] <R2E4> BAAAA!!!!
[13:11:56] <AR_> he is the xilinx queen
[13:12:06] <mr_new_> AR_: its in the mesa firmware
[13:12:10] <AR_> oh
[13:28:18] <r00t4rd3d> R2E4, im sure it does.
[13:28:37] <r00t4rd3d> what post processor are you using?
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[13:52:53] <xxoxx> can linuxcnc drive an EDM?
[13:53:06] <AR_> why not
[13:53:08] <xxoxx> I've got a die sinker
[13:53:29] <xxoxx> trying to figure out how to convert it to CNC operation
[13:53:34] <AR_> there are X Y Z axis but it doesnt have to be in a mill or lathe configuration
[13:53:51] <AR_> you could drive a robot with it
[13:53:52] <xxoxx> EDM the tool gets eaten away
[13:54:00] <xxoxx> so Z zero changes
[13:54:41] <xxoxx> wonder how to handle this
[13:55:01] <AR_> keep subtracting from your Z moves
[13:55:15] <xxoxx> right. that's what I was thinking
[13:55:25] <xxoxx> just wondering if this been done in LinuxCNC
[13:55:36] <xxoxx> or I'd have to add that myself
[13:56:00] <xxoxx> it would be cool to cut steel or brass mold that way
[13:56:09] <AR_> yeah
[13:57:10] <JT-Shop> edm site:linuxcnc.org
[13:57:33] <r00t4rd3d> thats helpful
[13:57:36] <r00t4rd3d> :D
[13:58:09] <xxoxx> i will 'dig' around ... hehehe
[13:58:35] <xxoxx> trying to convert a SIEG SU-1 to CNC
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[14:03:04] <jdh> cool
[14:03:59] <jdh> like this: http://www.grizzly.com/products/Mini-Horizontal-Vertical-Mill/G0727 ?
[14:06:01] <xxoxx> yeah. same chasis, different motor
[14:06:10] <xxoxx> SU-1 is the brushless version
[14:06:27] <xxoxx> I figure this would be quite suitable for CNC job
[14:06:34] <xxoxx> all axis being down below
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[14:15:53] <jdh> looks like not much Z space in vertical mode
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[14:17:03] <xxoxx> nope
[14:17:10] <xxoxx> but I only build small stuff
[14:17:23] <xxoxx> mostly aluminum molds
[14:17:29] <xxoxx> 5MM cutting depth
[14:18:07] <xxoxx> also do horizontal milling for gears
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[14:19:30] <xxoxx> SU1
[14:19:52] <xxoxx> SU1, SC2, C0, and a steel bodied CNC router/mill
[14:20:15] <xxoxx> SU1, SC2, C0, would like to all eventually convert to CNC
[14:22:06] <xxoxx> thinking about getting a Bolton AT125
[14:22:20] <jdh> I have a c0 ( I think... 7x lathe?)
[14:22:27] <xxoxx> yeah. baby lathe
[14:22:31] <jdh> SC2
[14:23:04] <xxoxx> SC2 is the mini lathe, with torquey brushless motor
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[14:28:32] <r00t4rd3d> my lathe: http://imgur.com/a/MYeQ0
[14:28:44] <xxoxx> SU-1 spindle runout about 0.002mm, pretty surprising
[14:28:56] <AR_> that is horrible
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[14:29:14] <xxoxx> ?
[14:29:25] <xxoxx> 0.002mm, not inch
[14:30:01] <xxoxx> r00t, a DIY nano lathe ?
[14:30:35] <r00t4rd3d> holds square stock that 1.5, 1.0, .75 inch
[14:30:42] <r00t4rd3d> 6.5 inches long
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[14:30:57] <r00t4rd3d> for my drill press
[14:32:03] <xxoxx> ok. nice
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[15:44:57] <Loetmichel> re @ home
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[16:00:20] <ve7it> Jymmm, ping...
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[16:11:51] <L84Supper> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rpBnurznFio RC plane launched from balloon at 33km (20 miles)
[16:11:52] <Tecan> (rpBnurznFio) "Space Glider - FPV to Space and Back!" by "David Windestĺl" is "Tech" - Length: 0:06:01
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[16:19:43] <jdh> I hope that is a bot
[16:21:51] <AR_> i am not a bot
[16:22:14] <jdh> prove it.
[16:22:39] <AR_> ggggggggggggggggggg
[16:23:00] <L84Supper> Tecan comments on any youtube video posted
[16:23:16] <jdh> because he is bored?
[16:23:56] <AR_> yeah
[16:23:58] <AR_> he has no life
[16:24:27] <jdh> me either, but I don't comment on some youtube videos
[16:24:49] <L84Supper> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xZOiNdkJ8SU
[16:24:50] <Tecan> (xZOiNdkJ8SU) "5-Axis Machining, 5-Axis Mill" by "MDAPrecision" is "Tech" - Length: 0:06:43
[16:25:03] <L84Supper> a bot
[16:25:54] <L84Supper> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vf5VdQzuSjQ
[16:25:55] <Tecan> (vf5VdQzuSjQ) "Home made 5axis CNC mill.wmv" by "suke koro" is "Tech" - Length: 0:06:00
[16:26:20] <L84Supper> not sure who runs it
[16:26:38] <jdh> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QbRlACyP7Aw
[16:27:05] <jdh> sure, he doesn't like mine.
[16:27:10] <L84Supper> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QbRlACyP7Aw
[16:27:21] <jdh> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QbRlACyP7Aw
[16:27:22] <Tecan> (QbRlACyP7Aw) "Rocky Horror tunnel at Madison Blue Spring" by "Bob Bowling" is "Sports" - Length: 0:07:46
[16:27:27] <jdh> he's insecure
[16:27:30] <L84Supper> http vs https
[16:27:52] <L84Supper> https://www.youtube.com/watch?
[16:28:03] <L84Supper> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QbRlACyP7Aw
[16:29:48] <L84Supper> Tecan: !help
[16:31:25] <L84Supper> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=
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[16:40:14] <Tecan> haha
[16:40:44] <Tecan> feedback welcome, if you dont like colors or the function it can be changed
[16:41:02] <Tecan> theres a channel ignore option for the YT bot
[16:41:23] <Tecan> but i am really bored alot :P
[16:42:16] <AR_> there are no colors
[16:42:29] <jdh> not in my vt screen
[16:43:02] <AR_> colors are filtered in this channel
[16:43:04] <AR_> mode +c
[16:45:49] <JT-Shop> so after a week of putzing around with the backhoe it finally starts... it rained last night so now it's too muddy to dig :(
[16:45:59] <jdh> got lucky!
[16:46:30] <JT-Shop> no, I finally figured out I put the gasket in the fuel filter incorrectly...
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[16:54:43] <pcw_home> gasket was installed in fuel economy mode?
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[16:56:00] <AR_> upside down
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[16:59:24] <IchGuckLive> hi all B)
[16:59:25] <L84Supper> anyone have a source for conveyor belts ~6' long, 1' wide, with really high repeatability? +- 0.002 (50um)
[17:00:40] <IchGuckLive> L84Supper: USA
[17:00:46] <L84Supper> anywhere
[17:00:48] <jthornton> yea if you put it in just right it blocks off the passage to the exit LOL
[17:02:32] <IchGuckLive> L84Supper: only flat or some shape also strait or in curve
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[17:02:47] <L84Supper> IchGuckLive: just straight
[17:02:54] <L84Supper> and flat
[17:02:58] <IchGuckLive> for a CNC control
[17:03:11] <IchGuckLive> or axis transporting
[17:03:37] <L84Supper> servo controlled at a constant rate 1gram loads 0.5m/sec
[17:04:15] <AR_> build one
[17:04:19] <IchGuckLive> so why not a 4layer timing belt it messures that 0.002
[17:04:20] <L84Supper> IchGuckLive: we don't need the servo included, just loking for the belts, guides rollers as an assembly
[17:04:38] <L84Supper> AR_: don't have time to build everything :)
[17:04:41] <IchGuckLive> at 25,4mm widt
[17:04:46] <IchGuckLive> 1"
[17:04:48] <AR_> rolling pins
[17:04:59] <IchGuckLive> or one foot
[17:05:00] <AR_> screw to 2x4
[17:05:04] <AR_> ????
[17:05:05] <AR_> profit
[17:05:28] <L84Supper> AR_: we already tried that and got infested with termites
[17:05:37] <AR_> lol
[17:06:44] <IchGuckLive> L84Supper: http://www.asconveyorsystems.co.uk/belt-conveyors.html
[17:06:49] <L84Supper> vacuum would be nice as well
[17:07:03] <IchGuckLive> http://www.asconveyorsystems.co.uk/Vacuum-Conveyors.html
[17:07:17] <L84Supper> heh, yes made by Dorner, near us
[17:07:50] <L84Supper> they seem to make belts for everyone
[17:08:12] <IchGuckLive> as they are within the top 10
[17:08:48] <AR_> litecoin client looks just like bitcoin client
[17:08:51] <AR_> hm
[17:08:53] <AR_> conspiracy
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[17:09:32] <IchGuckLive> L84Supper: 800 USD
[17:10:04] <L84Supper> 330mm width
[17:10:07] <IchGuckLive> 225M040600A0906 50" X 4"
[17:10:18] <L84Supper> 2m length
[17:10:48] <IchGuckLive> Dorner 2200 Conveyor 24" x 48" x 46" 650
[17:12:02] <L84Supper> a Dorner system is ~$12K with everything to spec, not sure if they can hold +- 50um in Y axis even if we have a laser mic on the edge
[17:12:08] <IchGuckLive> Dorner Conveyor Series 2200 6' ft X 8" Wide dorner motor 1000USD
[17:13:28] <IchGuckLive> i see the replacements are so expensive as it is worth to get a NEW with Percents
[17:13:56] <IchGuckLive> Nice company staregie
[17:17:28] <IchGuckLive> L84Supper: youve seen the Faulhaber system
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[17:33:25] <L84Supper> IchGuckLive: Faulhaber for a conveyor? no
[17:33:45] <IchGuckLive> no the hole system
[17:36:05] <L84Supper> IchGuckLive: have link, I don't see it on their website
[17:37:37] <IchGuckLive> http://www.faulhaber.com/sprache2/n426848/n.html
[17:38:32] <IchGuckLive> 6feet is your length how high woudt you go 80mm 3"
[17:39:18] <IchGuckLive> i woudt go for a pricice Timingbelt system 2 lines and mound a normal transport belt on it
[17:41:07] <IchGuckLive> do you need full rotation or only baxk and forth
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[17:42:11] <IchGuckLive> the HDT 14M woudt fit your need
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[17:43:50] <sadara> Two questions: 1: Has anyone here designed/built a linear drive? 2:What type of motor (what would it be called) if you took a car alternator and applied power to both the stator and the rotor coils? It's not a PMSM, because they is no permanent magnets, and because the rotor is energised directly, it not a coreless either. I'm trying to research it a bit, but need to know what it is called
[17:45:19] <IchGuckLive> sadara: welcome to our ICQ
[17:45:21] <pcw_home> its a synchronous 3 phase motor
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[17:45:40] <IchGuckLive> why liniar wotory better to control
[17:46:11] <WalterN> L84Supper: well, the laser was at my door, but I wasent awake to sign for it... so I'll probably get it tomorrow
[17:46:43] <sadara> IchGuckLive: linear is faster, lower inertia, and just as easy to control
[17:46:45] <IchGuckLive> WalterN: did you find a powersupply
[17:47:10] <pcw_home> the alternator is drivable like a PMSM as long as you supply field power
[17:47:16] <sadara> pcw_home: Just syncronous, PMSM is Permanent magnet sync, is there an acronym or something?
[17:47:52] <WalterN> IchGuckLive: kinda... one was $600 for just the driver (its not a complete power supply...)
[17:48:48] <pcw_home> Just synchronous (lots of BIG AC motors used to be synchronous not sure if they are common anymore)
[17:48:53] <WalterN> I dont think I want to pay that much for 5 pieces of electronics
[17:49:04] <sadara> found it, DC-excited sync motor
[17:50:57] <sadara> Thanks pcw. (I'm figuring a linear drive is just a flat motor, and you don't need slip rings to energise the "rotor")
[17:51:47] <pcw_home> They have one advantage compared to PMSM in that you can adjust the
[17:51:49] <pcw_home> field for different torque/speed characteristics
[17:51:51] <Connor> pcw_home: On pete's encoder + prox sensor issue. I have some optos that will work.. I just need clarification on what to do with the index side of the opto. Do I tie the index to the collector (with resistor in series and then tie that to the mesa input ?
[17:52:16] <Connor> I.E. index acts as if it's suppling the Vcc to the opto...
[17:52:52] <L84Supper> IchGuckLive: continuous motion in one direction, 300mm/sec
[17:53:14] <pcw_home> index --> collector --> emitter --> pulldown --> 7I77 input
[17:54:53] <Connor> okay. the resistor on the pulldown is tied to grown.. simple schematic would be helpfull.
[17:55:07] <pcw_home> the fly in that particular ointment is that the 7I77 encoder input already has a pullup in TTL mode so the pulldown needs to be quite stiff (if you had a active low index it would be better)
[17:56:05] <pcw_home> If you use a differential encoder you would have both index polarities available
[17:56:12] <L84Supper> IchGuckLive: length is 2 meters, width is 330mm
[17:56:43] <Connor> We will be using a differential encoder.. but only in single ended mode to start off with unless we have issues..
[17:57:07] <pcw_home> then the active low index --> opto emitter --> opto collector --> 7I77 index input
[17:57:15] <L84Supper> IchGuckLive: the concern with a timing belt is the vibration it will introduce
[17:57:16] <Connor> I have a slew of PC817 opto's
[17:58:03] <IchGuckLive> L84Supper: agree on that
[17:58:30] <pcw_home> (using the active low index signal eliminate the pulldown and dueling pullups/pulldowns)
[17:59:08] <Connor> pcw_home: okay, so at that point the active_low index acts as a syncing ground.
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[17:59:37] <Connor> would we use the index or index not input on the 7i77 ?
[18:00:01] <pcw_home> you need to use the TTL input (I forget which one)
[18:00:40] <Connor> That should be the regular one I would think. not the NOT ..
[18:00:57] <IchGuckLive> L84Supper: so staying with vaccum Dorner Conveyor Series 2200
[18:01:21] <L84Supper> IchGuckLive: so far, but looking for options
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[18:02:18] <L84Supper> if we 3D print parts directly onto a conveyor we will also want the same accuracy, <50um
[18:04:38] <IchGuckLive> L84Supper: why not robot at M30 gets the part of the table
[18:04:40] <AR_> why
[18:05:03] <IchGuckLive> L84Supper: and Robot restarts the programm
[18:05:31] <L84Supper> IchGuckLive: the current application is sheets of foil/film/paper
[18:05:44] <IchGuckLive> ah ok
[18:05:46] <Connor> pcw_home: looks like pin 23 is IDX5 and ping 24 is /IDX5
[18:06:11] <L84Supper> but a 3D printer might use a belt to carry parts through different deposition systems for different types of layers/materials
[18:06:18] <IchGuckLive> Dorner 2100 Series 930132 Conveyor Belt 10" X 84" this is the best offer i get
[18:06:45] <L84Supper> IchGuckLive: yeah, talked to their engineers again earlier today
[18:06:47] <pcw_home> 7I77 manual should say which in to use when in TTL mode
[18:07:34] <IchGuckLive> i woudt go for a pallet changer
[18:07:49] <Connor> Only thing I found in manul is on page 53
[18:07:53] <IchGuckLive> this gives you a better then <50µm
[18:07:59] <Connor> INPUT TTL MODE THRESHOLD 1.4 1.8 Volts
[18:08:08] <Connor> that's the ONLY TTL I found in the manual
[18:08:54] <Connor> When used with single ended encoders, the ENCA+, ENCB+ and IDX+ signals are wired to the encoder and the ENCA-,ENCB-, and IDX- terminal left unconnected.
[18:09:05] <IchGuckLive> im off by
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[18:11:24] <sadara> L84Supper: I've seen linear motors do 80m/sec
[18:11:35] <sadara> (that is meters btw, not mm)
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[18:13:20] <L84Supper> sadara: yeah, we are only going 300mm/sec tops
[18:13:32] <L84Supper> but it has to be a loop, no back and forth
[18:16:19] <sadara> I had a borked promtional video once of a engine block tied down on a linear drive x/y table been machined. You could see the promo was for the fast table, as the machine did a lot of unnessecery tool changes etc, and lots and lots of rapids. then one of the tie down broke and the motor went through a wall.
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[18:17:06] <Jymmm> ve7it: pong
[18:18:10] <L84Supper> sadara: quite a missile
[18:18:45] <L84Supper> sadara: there are 5gram sheets
[18:18:47] <ve7it> Jymmm, hey... I think I need a faster computer... compiling a distribution image for an imbedded linux box I am working on takes 1.5 days
[18:19:05] <L84Supper> sadara: so the worst case is probably a paper cut :)
[18:19:50] <sadara> idk, 5 gram sheet of tungesten at 80m/sec --->
[18:19:57] <sadara> whatcha cutting?
[18:20:07] <ve7it> Jymmm, maybe a good year to upgrade... there has been some income.... any ideas on good i7 proc/mb/memory combos
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[18:20:11] <Jymmm> ve7it: You could stop watching 42 pr0n all at the same time too, that might speed something up! And what takes 1.5days to compile?
[18:21:38] <ve7it> basically a cd linux distribution for an arm processor
[18:21:48] <Jymmm> ve7it: Either hit CL for a deal, or what pretty much do is it Freiday's Fry's ad for Laptop De Jour
[18:22:33] <Jymmm> ve7it: Dell E6xxx seem promising
[18:22:44] <ve7it> it seems a lot of new m/b has the windows 8 bios crap
[18:23:00] <Jymmm> bios crap?
[18:23:06] <ve7it> eufi?
[18:23:25] <ve7it> It wont let you install linux!
[18:23:51] <L84Supper> yeah, more crappy BIOS
[18:24:16] <Jymmm> ve7it: take a look, see what you think http://www.dell.com/us/business/p/latitude-e6430/pd
[18:24:30] <pcw_home> Ha the was a newspaper article today that blamed low PC sales on move to mobile _and_consumer dislike of Windows 8
[18:24:37] <Jymmm> ve7it: I saw one on CL for $400
[18:25:19] <Connor> pcw_home: You see my above statements on the TTL input info in the manual ?
[18:25:36] <Jymmm> ve7it: http://www.ubuntu.com/certification/hardware/201202-10552/
[18:26:46] <pcw_home> Yes, so you use the + inputs for TTL
[18:27:36] <Jymmm> ve7it: Max ram 16GB
[18:28:14] <ve7it> Jymmm, dont really want a laptop.... a fast desktop for a compile engine is better... but fast gammer systems concentrate on fast video... VGA video is all I care about
[18:28:44] <Jymmm> ve7it: budget?
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[18:29:10] <ve7it> Jymmm, i DONT NEED A $500 video card... budget is <$1000
[18:31:09] <carper64_lb_> only thing that intrests me is that a graphics card is compatable for real view use with solidworks
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[18:31:34] <Connor> pcw_home: okay.. just want to be sure. I do have one more question.. then I'll shut up.. when using the active low.. is that a negative voltage, or just the inverse of the other side ?
[18:31:56] <Jymmm> ve7it: I thought this was pretty cool myself.... http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16856101117 video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l00FV8bG0D4
[18:31:57] <Tecan> (l00FV8bG0D4) "Shuttle SH67H3 Barebones Mini PC Unboxing & First Look Linus Tech Tips" by "LinusTechTips" is "Tech" - Length: 0:09:41
[18:32:21] <ve7it> Jymmm, was thinking of i7 quad processor, 8 or 16gb of 2400Mhz DDR3 ram, an IVY bridge motherboard... not sure if a solid state drive would benefit compiling or not... maybe mounting /usr/bin in a ram drive would be better.
[18:32:50] <Jymmm> ve7it: It would, but you said < $1000
[18:33:42] <pcw_home> active high index is ~0V when no index and ~5V at index
[18:33:43] <pcw_home> active low index is ~5V when no index and ~0V at index
[18:33:57] <Jymmm> ve7it: SuperMicro mobo's could do the quad CPU's and big ram
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[18:35:56] <Connor> okay. got it. Should be simple enough..
[18:37:52] <Jymmm> ve7it: I kinda stay away from big klunky boxes anymore
[18:38:37] <carper64_lb_> i find the atom board runs linuxcnc eay
[18:38:40] <carper64_lb_> easy
[18:47:53] <Jymmm> ve7it: Shuttle + i5-2500K + 16gb + 64gb ssd + 1TB hdd == $662 USD
[18:50:39] <Jymmm> ve7it: add $150 for i7-3770K (3.5GHz)
[18:51:49] <ve7it> Jymmm, too many choices... newegg has 17 pages of intel motherboards
[18:52:08] <Jymmm> ve7it: intel brand mobo?
[18:52:39] <Jymmm> ve7it: I have a love/hate relationship with intel brand mobo's
[18:53:35] <ve7it> intel proccessor... http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813157330 seems like it might be a good board
[18:53:38] <Jymmm> ve7it: some of the gigabyte mobo's have aoverclock buton on them
[18:54:04] <sadara> what new systems are getting low latency these days?
[18:54:29] <Jymmm> ve7it: you want a mid tower system?
[18:54:32] <sadara> (and have 3 pci slots :)
[18:55:34] <ve7it> Jymmm, doesnt really matter... fast disk, fast memory bandwidth and a quad processor probably win.... I will have to cruise toms hardware for a while
[18:55:34] <Jymmm> ve7it: try to get one with intel gigabit ethernet, relatek nic is kludgy
[18:56:16] <Jymmm> ve7it: 4 i7 cpus alone will cost $1200
[18:56:47] <ve7it> fast network is not an issue..... talking to the internet is throttled through a $29 wireless router and then a cable modem
[18:56:57] <Jymmm> ve7it: bbefore ram, ssd, or mobo
[18:57:06] <ve7it> Jymmm, just thinking of 1 i7!
[18:57:09] <Jymmm> ve7it: it's BUGGY
[18:57:31] <Jymmm> ve7it: you said quad processor twice... that's 4 cpus
[18:57:43] <ve7it> quad core
[18:57:43] <Jymmm> ve7it: did you mean quad core?
[18:57:48] <Jymmm> ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
[18:57:53] <Jymmm> * WHACK*
[18:58:04] <Jymmm> ve7it: No HF for you!
[18:58:36] <Jymmm> ve7it: We'ree keeping you on 11m from now on!
[18:59:07] <ve7it> Jymmm, http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819116501 really eats up the budget!
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[19:00:10] <ve7it> nice at 77w.... and includes pretty hot graphics, so a separate video card is not needed
[19:03:04] <Jymmm> ve7it: that cpu, the shuttle Z77, 16gb, 64 ssd == $890 USD
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[19:05:57] <Jymmm> Bummer, the shittle uses realtak nic, crap.
[19:06:24] <Jymmm> I need a good VM box
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[19:08:56] <PetefromTn> hello!!
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[19:15:54] <L84Supper> ok so a 1m/sec linear motor will actually work instead of a belt
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[19:16:19] <AR_> yes
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[19:17:03] <L84Supper> they just speced a belt since nobody ever tried a linear motor
[19:17:12] <L84Supper> figures
[19:17:35] <AR_> inferiors
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[19:18:27] <L84Supper> but the price of a 6 foot linear motor is about that of a precision conveyor belt
[19:21:09] <L84Supper> 121,000 meters of travel per week, how many weeks until the bearings are shot?
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[19:23:03] <L84Supper> need more durability specs
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[19:25:41] <L84Supper> that is 4.5 million inches per week
[19:27:18] <AR_> maglev
[19:27:20] <L84Supper> thats workable without an aire bearing
[19:27:26] <L84Supper> air even
[19:28:04] <L84Supper> yeah mag or air bearing is best but the cost might be too high and the lead times are >3 months
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[19:41:58] <sadara> L84Supper: I'm working to bring linear motors to the masses !
[19:42:55] <sadara> I'm trying to figure out a good design, I'll be prototyping it over the comming weeks
[19:43:23] <sadara> what I don't get is why they are so damn expencive
[19:43:26] * skunkworks_ hands sadara a bunch of HD maganets...
[19:44:01] <sadara> skunkworks_: I'm thinking I'll go magnet free, as ND mags are $$$
[19:44:19] <sadara> copper magnet wire is only $$
[19:44:33] <skunkworks_> your going to use electromaganets?
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[19:46:55] <sadara> I havn't desided, you can do it one of two ways, either using "electromagnets" for your "rotor", or using to motors back to back, like an inrunner running inside an outrunner ( or even three motors, "rotor" coils, "stator" coils, them more "rotor" coils, this way you seem not to need a linear bearing at all)
[19:48:24] <sadara> or with permanent magnets as you said, but I'm trying to keep this low cost and high performance, and it's not that difficult by the look of it, but I can say that as I havn't prototyped anything yet
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[19:50:00] <L84Supper> sadara: what srange of sped and accell
[19:50:18] <L84Supper> sadara: what range of sped and accelleration?
[19:51:05] <sadara> I'm not exactly sure yet, but the motors are scaleable, just add more laminations (the same as making a stepper longer by adding laminations
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[19:51:51] <sadara> power wise, anywhere you to about 3.6 kw
[19:52:00] <sadara> s/you/up
[19:52:28] <PCW> there are linear stepmotors (just unrolled and rotor/stator swap)
[19:53:11] <sadara> yeah, I was looking for one, but I couldn't find any priceing, so I'm assuming they are out of financial reach for most ppl
[19:54:02] <PCW> and lnear induction motors
[19:55:05] <sadara> It's my understanding that linear induction motors are tricky to do right
[19:55:09] <PCW> then there are the MHD liquid metal motors/pumps
[19:55:52] <L84Supper> I need to hit ~2m/second for a distance of 2 meters in one direction
[19:56:20] <JT-Shop> black powder
[19:56:34] <sadara> ^^ beat me to it
[19:56:42] <JT-Shop> lol
[19:56:55] <L84Supper> 1.5m/sec min
[19:57:29] <sadara> what mass?
[19:58:06] <L84Supper> 5 gram load + whatever the mass of the carriage itself is
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[19:58:32] <sadara> easy, compressed air
[19:58:38] <sadara> do you need precision?
[19:58:57] <L84Supper> it's a piece of paper
[19:59:00] <L84Supper> heh
[19:59:15] <L84Supper> need to move a sheet through a printer
[19:59:21] <sadara> how are you grasping the paper?
[19:59:41] <L84Supper> vacuum table ~1Kg
[19:59:55] <sadara> rollers seem the obvious choise, what is the reason for not using them?
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[20:00:07] <L84Supper> roller or belt?
[20:00:20] <sadara> rollers
[20:00:24] <L84Supper> 50um paper thickness
[20:00:34] <L84Supper> sheet not web
[20:01:01] <sadara> hrmmm.... what about electrostatics?
[20:01:17] <L84Supper> foil paper, conductive
[20:01:29] <sadara> on a roll?
[20:01:38] <L84Supper> sheet not roll/web
[20:01:51] <sadara> charge the sheet up
[20:01:54] <L84Supper> 12" x 16"
[20:02:02] <L84Supper> can't
[20:02:16] <sadara> keep it in position using electrostatic charge of same polarity
[20:02:31] <sadara> L84Supper: Whay not?
[20:02:43] <L84Supper> not under my control
[20:02:49] <L84Supper> we get what they give us
[20:02:57] <L84Supper> automated high speed line
[20:03:05] <sadara> does it have to stay exactly flat?
[20:03:10] <L84Supper> yes
[20:03:29] * sadara is thinking realy large diameter roller, like 2-3m
[20:04:16] <L84Supper> belt vs roller
[20:04:24] <L84Supper> stainless vacuum belt
[20:04:39] <sadara> if it can't be bent slightly, does it have to travel in an exactly staight line?
[20:04:51] <sadara> L84Supper: forget the belt for a moment
[20:05:45] <L84Supper> yes in X and Y
[20:06:15] <L84Supper> straight in X with as little Y jitter as possible
[20:06:35] <sadara> so y can't be curved?
[20:06:40] <L84Supper> no
[20:06:44] <sadara> I'm thinking of this as a printer in a production line. sheet of paper comes in, get printed, goes out, whatever happens in the printer is up to you?
[20:15:53] <L84Supper> this belt is the printer
[20:16:50] <L84Supper> sadara: whwn you said roller I thought roller conveyor not a drum
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[20:17:57] <L84Supper> a drum that size would be hard to hold to spec
[20:18:01] <sadara> if you can vaccuum the paper onto a rapidly spinning large diameter drum, have the print head directly above the drum, and then airjet the paper off the drum
[20:18:32] <L84Supper> we don't load or unload we just expect some other machine to load and unload
[20:18:54] <L84Supper> we just start when the paper goes down on one end and move it to the other end
[20:19:07] <sadara> what tolerance? (I would be more concerned with keeping the paper square to x axis on the drum)
[20:19:17] <L84Supper> we have no idea what puts it down or pick it up
[20:19:52] <sadara> I would need more information to help with this
[20:20:10] <L84Supper> we compensate for squarness with a 4 camera system that measure reference points then we adjust for skew
[20:20:45] <sadara> if you can adjust for skew, can't you adjust for off-axis distortion?
[20:21:12] <L84Supper> I'd just a like a conveyor that does not jitter in the Y (side to side) since the x is constant speed
[20:21:40] <sadara> yeah, a large diameter drum emulates that
[20:21:49] <L84Supper> yes, but the Y axis movement is only a concern between when the camera inspects it and 20 inches later when the printer puts the ink down
[20:22:51] <sadara> put the camera 20 inches back along the circumferance of the drum
[20:22:59] <L84Supper> the camera might see oe thing and if there is distortion before the ink goes down that is the only problem
[20:23:38] <sadara> if you do it right, the paper would be held firmly on the drum, either unisng electrostatics or vaccuum
[20:23:44] <L84Supper> giant 2 meter flyweel
[20:24:35] <L84Supper> thats not going to fit in the floor space available
[20:25:07] <L84Supper> not many places can machine a 2m dia drum
[20:25:19] <sadara> I may be wrong, but I'm working it out to 20 rpm
[20:25:42] <sadara> go to 100rpm and make drum smaller
[20:26:30] <L84Supper> lets just sat drum won't work since we are told that the belt has to be flat
[20:26:49] <L84Supper> we have no control over what comes before or after this machine
[20:26:56] <sadara> so your trying to accelerate a stainless belt to 2m a sec in 2m?
[20:26:58] <L84Supper> it would make it easier if we did
[20:27:04] <L84Supper> no
[20:27:16] <L84Supper> constant velocity belt
[20:27:25] <sadara> cv @ 2m/s?
[20:27:50] <L84Supper> i was just running the numbers if a linear motor was used instead of a belt
[20:28:04] <sadara> ahhh, I'm following you now
[20:28:20] <sadara> how many sheetsper min?
[20:28:24] <L84Supper> no the belt would only travel at 0.3m /sec
[20:28:42] <L84Supper> 6 second cycle time between sheets
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[20:28:55] <L84Supper> 6 foot long belt (2m)
[20:29:09] <sadara> linear motor will do that really easily
[20:29:30] <sadara> your looking for .2g
[20:29:41] <L84Supper> it's funny how on IRC if something can be missunderstood it most certainly will be :)
[20:29:53] <sadara> true
[20:30:04] <sadara> COTS linear motors go up to serveral 100G
[20:33:24] <sadara> even a cheap(ish) 1G will easily meet your requirements
[20:35:32] <L84Supper> 5 gram paper, 1-2kg vacuum table is whats moving
[20:36:19] <L84Supper> now the problem is how to connect vacuum line that whips around +-1m at 2G's
[20:36:27] <sadara> 1-2kg moved by 60 newtons?
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[20:37:10] <sadara> thats 60m/s/s
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[20:37:33] <sadara> how far?
[20:38:16] <sadara> (btw, 60newton is about the smallest standard linear drive)
[20:38:19] <L84Supper> it has to slow down to <0.5m per second for 1.4 seconds and the travel is 2 meters
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[20:38:48] <L84Supper> fast. slow, fast for one direction and then fast all the way back
[20:38:55] <sadara> easy
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[20:39:22] <L84Supper> yeah, people here though 2G's of accel would require gunpowder
[20:39:45] <sadara> http://intellidrives.com/Linear-actuator-index.htm
[20:39:49] <L84Supper> they probably never worked with linear motors
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[20:40:02] <sadara> LSS-120 seems right
[20:40:13] <sadara> your peak force can be with a dc brake
[20:40:16] <L84Supper> hiwin, parker, aerotec, there are several
[20:40:45] <L84Supper> it's more lead times with linear motors 2 meters long
[20:40:54] <L84Supper> 3-4 months for some vendors
[20:41:52] <sadara> 150n/m acceleration, brake at 450N/m, precison travel through the printer, accerate again, then brake, I need to know the exact distances to work out the timing
[20:42:04] <sadara> L84Supper: 2m is off the shelf
[20:42:29] <sadara> the linear induction drive (read = more $$$) are cut to length on same day
[20:43:12] <L84Supper> yeah, they delivered fast before
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[20:57:10] <L84Supper> sadara: linear motor/actuator is 0.5x the cost of a conveyor belt
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[20:59:26] <sadara> L84Supper: that was one explancive conveyor
[20:59:39] <sadara> L84Supper: Whare did you get a price?
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[21:03:46] <DJ9DJ> gn8
[21:03:58] <sadara> gnate?
[21:04:46] <DJ9DJ> good night!
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[21:06:57] <sadara> L84Supper: I'm going to get some sleep, it's 5am here, and I have wrok ing the morning
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[21:13:50] <brummer> not sure when to jump in with questions but I have a shizuoka cnc mill with bandit control i intend to convert to linuxcnc. i believe it has brushed dc servos though I need to verify. Mesa boards seem to be the most recommended type here.
[21:18:46] <L84Supper> yes
[21:19:20] <PCW> Nah they're carp
[21:19:26] <PCW> crap
[21:19:54] <L84Supper> for the halibut?
[21:20:52] <PCW> just for the halibut
[21:23:05] <L84Supper> http://www.intellidrives.com/Rotary_Tables_Selection-si-59.html nice servo direct drive rotary tables
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[21:24:26] <L84Supper> PCW: have an amp for something this size http://www.intellidrives.com/product_info_1.php?cPath=&products_id=46
[21:25:29] <L84Supper> 14A peak, 5.1A continuous hree phase brushless Y winding (standard)
[21:31:04] <PCW> 8I20 maybe
[21:37:42] <L84Supper> http://sensing.honeywell.com/asdx%20series%20ultra-low%20pressure%20silicon%20pressure%20sensors anyone ever see a board with several of these on it to monitor low pressures in a system?
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[21:48:56] <L84Supper> PCW: do have an I2C IO card?
[21:49:02] <L84Supper> do you
[21:49:46] <L84Supper> or use GPIO and modify the fpga?
[21:50:47] <L84Supper> nevermind I just found sensors with SPI
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[22:07:23] <andypugh> So, if I turn the current up on my brushless motor to the level it seems to need, instead of going faster, it squeals horribly.
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[22:08:15] <andypugh> I can't decide if this means that I am saturating the iron, or something else.
[22:08:28] <JT-Shop> yikes
[22:08:42] <pcw1204> If it squeals its probably means you are current limiting on the 7I39
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[22:09:25] <andypugh> pcw1204: This is at 0.4 durt-cycle on the 7i39
[22:09:33] <andypugh> (duty cycle)
[22:10:23] <andypugh> But, it only has 1.5 ohms winding resistance, I suspect it basically isn't "inductive" enough.
[22:10:52] <pcw1204> duty cycle determines voltage so 40% of full voltage can easily be too much current unless spinning
[22:11:28] <andypugh> Right, which fits with my thoughts that I need to re-wind it with thinner wire.
[22:11:55] <pcw1204> if its inductance you might try a high PWM rate
[22:12:11] <andypugh> It's already at 40khz
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[22:12:54] <FinboySlick> pcw_home: got another quick one for you if you have a moment.
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[22:13:10] <pcw1204> depending on your magnetic circuit you may have pretty low indcutance
[22:13:46] <andypugh> I think that is the problem. Hence wanting to try thinner wire.
[22:14:02] <FinboySlick> Some of the circuitry I am testing is fairly wide and ISE complains that it ran out of IOBs since the chip doesn't have enough external pins to match. Obviously this is all going to be internal logic and not connected to pins, is there a way to tell ISE to just not care about this?
[22:14:46] <pcw1204> chose a bigger chip?
[22:15:02] <pcw1204> or wire it all to a big mux
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[22:16:51] <andypugh> A sort-of similar motor I have comes out at 5 ohms DC resistance. Measuring inductance is a bit beyond my means at the moment.
[22:17:07] <FinboySlick> pcw_home: Could I wire the pins to registers?
[22:18:54] <pcw1204> yes as long as they can be read externally
[22:19:12] <pcw1204> (otherwise it will all get optimised away)
[22:19:44] <FinboySlick> OK.
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[22:22:23] <pcw1204> remember inductance is proportional to turns squared
[22:24:30] <andypugh> Current wire is .45mm / 26 gauge. I am trying to decide between 30 gauge (half the area, twice the turns, 4x the DC resistance, 4x the inductance) and .28mm (32 gauge) where the factor is 2.6 / 6.6
[22:26:22] <pcw1204> I suspect 30 would be better
[22:26:23] <andypugh> I suppose I could try both, it's only really really tedious to re-wind. :-)
[22:26:47] <pcw1204> but thats just a guess
[22:26:50] <andypugh> Yes, I suspect I would get into current-density problems with the 32.
[22:27:38] <andypugh> Though 32-gauge delta might be right.
[22:27:47] <pcw1204> can you measure how much torque you are getting with a DC supply for a sanity check?
[22:28:19] <pcw1204> (or measure the BEMF)
[22:28:42] <andypugh> Measuring bemf sounds easier.
[22:29:14] <pcw1204> do you have a lab supply?
[22:29:29] <andypugh> I used to design dynos for testing small electric motors, but that was a few jobs ago ;-)
[22:29:49] <andypugh> The DC supply is easy. measuring the torque less to.
[22:30:12] <pcw1204> BEMF when spun will give you an idea of the correct number of turns
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[22:39:19] <andypugh> about 15V at the fastest I can flick it.
[22:39:26] <andypugh> (on the scope)
[22:40:04] <andypugh> So I will try the 30 gauge, keeping the option of switching to delta connection.
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[22:45:06] <andypugh> (The wires are now too short to reach the PCB anyway, so I need to do some reconstruction, I might as well experiment with different winding)
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[22:48:44] <PetefromTn_> Hey guys, anyone feel like helping me walk thru wiring up the logic on my Hitachi WJ200 spindle drive?
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[22:53:42] <JT-Shop> yikes!
[22:54:05] <PetefromTn_> That bad huh?
[22:55:07] <JT-Shop> well I know nothing about a Hitachi drive lol
[22:55:16] <JT-Shop> is it just on and off?
[22:55:40] * JT-Shop is glad I have an Automation Direct GS2 drive that speaks to LinuxCNC
[22:57:35] <PetefromTn_> Nah I have the 5i25/7i77 combo and I am wanting to hookup the +/-10v analog control signal and also figure out how to wire this 24volt relay that switches on the spindle motor fan to the run signal on the VFD so it only comes on when the spindle is runnin.
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[22:58:08] <JT-Shop> I use motion.hmmm let me find that pin
[22:58:54] <PetefromTn_> LOL....
[22:59:30] <JT-Shop> maybe it is halui.program.is-running
[22:59:37] <JT-Shop> let me check the BP config
[23:00:17] <PetefromTn_> No I mean the VFD ouputs a signal which is hooked to an external relay that can be used to switch on and off the relay to power the fan...
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[23:02:21] <PetefromTn_> It is on pin 12 on the Hitachi VFD and you can configure the output to switch the relay..
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[23:17:27] <andypugh> Well, that is me committed to rewinding my motor. I have a bare stator and a pile of copper.
[23:17:42] <JT-Shop> the washing machine motor?
[23:18:22] <andypugh> No, this one: https://plus.google.com/photos/108164504656404380542/albums/5747722155741347649/5685034302549414130?banner=pwa
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[23:18:51] <JT-Shop> that's one you made right?
[23:19:13] <andypugh> PetefromTn_: Does the spindle drive take +/- 10V, or 0-10V + direction?
[23:19:44] <andypugh> JT-Shop: Yes, so rewinding it is just a case of re-doing something I did before.
[23:20:24] <skunkworks> andypugh: is that why it wasn't running as well as you thought it should before? (open wire)
[23:20:37] <PetefromTn_> andypugh: Lemme check a sec.
[23:21:21] <andypugh> skunkworks: I think that the whole motor is a bad match for the 7i39. Not enough impedance for the 7i39 to drive into.
[23:21:41] <skunkworks> smaller wire?
[23:22:04] <andypugh> That's the plan. Smaller wire, more inductance.
[23:22:11] <skunkworks> neat
[23:22:25] <andypugh> More tedious to wind..
[23:22:51] <skunkworks> heh
[23:23:27] <PetefromTn_> here is a link to the manual PDF..... I am trying to figure out the logic right now. Currently it is wired up and working under front panel control. http://www.driveswarehouse.com/documentation/Hitachi/WJ200R.pdf
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[23:25:02] <PetefromTn_> on page 24 of the manual it says the analog voltage input specs.. It does not actually say it is +/-. At least I don't think it does.
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[23:26:49] <andypugh> Yes, 0 to 10V between O and L.
[23:27:31] <PetefromTn_> okay not H and L then...
[23:27:35] <Tom_itx> what size wire did you use to begin with?
[23:27:40] <Tom_itx> and what are you going to?
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[23:27:48] <andypugh> No, H is the reference voltage out of the drive.
[23:28:34] <PetefromTn_> Where and how would you get direction input then?
[23:29:08] <andypugh> The FW and RV terminals.
[23:29:17] <andypugh> (page 25)
[23:29:41] <andypugh> For extra fun it seems that you can set up the terminals in a number of ways in software.
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[23:30:25] <PetefromTn_> Not seeing the fw and rv...
[23:30:47] <andypugh> Table in Page 25.
[23:31:22] <andypugh> It looks like you can configure any of the logic inputs to be any of the functions in that table.
[23:31:51] <PetefromTn_> Are you sure it is page 25 cause I don't see it...
[23:32:02] <JT-Shop> http://www.spyder.brp.com/compare-models?categoryCode=RT
[23:32:12] <andypugh> It is the page that says 25 at the bottom.
[23:32:35] <Tom_itx> gotta love pdf files
[23:33:04] <Tom_itx> JT-Shop, you gettin a new toy?
[23:33:14] <PetefromTn_> Oh okay not the PDF page now I see it..LOL
[23:34:26] <JT-Shop> making one Tom_itx
[23:35:16] <PetefromTn_> SO what you are saying is that there are some terminals pins that are configurable and I can hookup an output from linuxCNC to two of them one for FWD and one for REV. What pins are the configurable outputs?
[23:35:54] <andypugh> Page 27 explains, I think.
[23:36:18] <andypugh> I am looking at the 7i77 manual to try to figure out which wiring scheme to use.
[23:37:13] <JT-Shop> hmmm wrong link lol
[23:37:21] <PetefromTn_> Thanks man...I am looking at page 23 and it seems that pins 1,2, and L are the intelligent input terminals and perhaps that is how I should hookup.
[23:37:46] <andypugh> 7i77 are sourcing type, so you need to follow the scheme on the bottom of page 29, ]
[23:38:11] <andypugh> Pins 1 to 7 are all "intelligent inputs"
[23:38:25] <andypugh> L is the GND I think.
[23:38:41] <JT-Shop> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JynwVKXzc9s
[23:38:42] <Tecan> (JynwVKXzc9s) "Supertramp Live 2011: Bloody Well Right [Full HD]" by "ComeFaceTheMusic" is "Music" - Length: 0:07:07
[23:39:02] <andypugh> Page 27 is the one you need to read carefuly.
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[23:41:01] <PetefromTn_> Okay so it looks like a command output from the 7i77 pins output go to the intelligent input pins say 1 and 2 and then where would you hook the ground from L.. Also remove the jumper right?
[23:42:52] <PetefromTn_> I think I get it Andy, thanks man....
[23:43:36] <andypugh> A few more things.
[23:43:56] <PetefromTn_> Now I just need to figure out how to switch this external relay for the fan...
[23:44:14] <andypugh> The motion.spindle-speed-out pin is bipolar, it's a negative number for reverse.
[23:44:57] <andypugh> So, I suggest passing that through an ABS hal function. http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/html/man/man9/abs.9.html
[23:45:13] <PetefromTn_> are you talking about the 7i77 or the vfd?
[23:45:40] <andypugh> Then wire the abs.0.is-positive and abs.0.is-negative pins to the fwd/reverse outputs.
[23:45:55] <andypugh> Neither, I am talking about HAL.
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[23:46:32] <PetefromTn_> I am sorry for my lack of understanding, hal controls pinouts on the 7i77, correct?
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[23:46:44] <andypugh> Not really.
[23:47:06] <andypugh> HAL controls what the pins on the 7i77 are used for.
[23:48:47] <PetefromTn_> How would you wire the pins for fwd and rev? I originally thought it would take a +/- 10v and the polarity would control the direction but that will not work now so I am not sure if there is a way to use the analog output from the 7i77 to control both the frequency/speed as well as the direction or do I need to configure a couple output pins from the 7i77.
[23:49:29] <andypugh> If you just connect motion.spindle-speed-out to hm2_5i25.0.7i77.0.0.analogout-03 (or whatever the pin is called) then anticklockwise rotation commands will output a negative voltage on the analog output, and that will rather confuse the VFD>
[23:49:59] <andypugh> I think you need to use a couple of output pins for FWD/REV
[23:51:12] <PetefromTn_> Okay so we are definitely going to tie up a couple field outputs then....
[23:52:22] <andypugh> It looks like it.
[23:52:53] <andypugh> Are you in danger of running out?
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[23:53:48] <PetefromTn_> No not really but I have not even really started on the toolchanger yet so I am trying to keep them spared as much as possible...
[23:54:52] <andypugh> You can always hook up another 48 IO lines by adding a smart-serial card.
[23:55:12] <PetefromTn_> Yeah I know but I am trying to make this work with just the one card..
[23:55:38] <Valen> still cold there andypugh?
[23:55:47] <andypugh> I am just saying that it isn't an impossible situation of you run out of outputs.
[23:55:56] <andypugh> Warming up here.
[23:56:01] <PetefromTn_> Yeah I understand..
[23:56:08] <Valen> saw your + photos, heh cold
[23:56:50] <andypugh> That's actually my parent's village, we got rather less snow where I live.
[23:57:04] <Valen> ahh
[23:57:16] <andypugh> Only 200 miles away.
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[23:58:03] <PetefromTn_> So basically configure the outputs for fwd and rev and the O and L for the freq then. What do you think about hooking up the run signal output relay for the fan? I have a 24 volt relay that is hooked to the 220v leads hooked to the fan leads and I want to configure it to come on with the run signal whenever the motor is spinning.