#linuxcnc | Logs for 2013-04-10

[00:02:04] <andypugh> PetefromTn: Not really. Differential is probably better, but shielded TTL will probably be fine.
[00:02:26] <andypugh> Do you want the encoder for rigid tapping?
[00:03:24] <andypugh> If you had left the resolver on there you wouldn't need to worry, as they are absolute they just recover from glitches :-)
[00:05:06] <PetefromTn> Well I can most certainly put the encoder back on there but I don't think that my 5i25/7i77 combo will play nice with it. I DEFINITELY want rigid tapping as well as spindle alignment for toolchange... My spindle drive is the Hitachi wj200.
[00:05:28] <PCW> TTL will probably work and there are options if its noisy
[00:07:12] <PCW> I would worry about mechanics first if its a high speed spindle
[00:07:24] <PetefromTn> Hey Pete, Can I use the resolver on this setup because if I can It is Already here LOL. Lee is using the single ended encoder and no line driver and has not had any issues, typically I am not so lucky with stuff but ya never know.
[00:07:58] <PCW> is the encoder mounted on the spindle shaft?
[00:08:30] <PetefromTn> It's NOT actually a high speed spindle. Basically the spindle is a 6k RPM spindle and the motor is driven with a 2-1 belt ratio. The encoder is mounted on the motors shaft and there is a 180 out sensor on the spindle body for positioning.
[00:09:07] <andypugh> Pete, you could use the existing resolver + an adaptor board into the 7i77 encoder inputs: http://www.pico-systems.com/resolver.html
[00:09:23] <PetefromTn> I was going to try to install a spindle mounted encoder but after looking at it and knowing Cincinatti used the motor mounted encoder with the 180 mask I decided to go with what it came with. Lee arrived at the same conclusion.
[00:09:47] <andypugh> That is a more expensive solution than the encoder, though.
[00:09:51] <PCW> Yeah that PICO card should work
[00:10:08] <PCW> may be cheaper if the encoder is hard to mount
[00:10:23] <andypugh> Differential outputs too.
[00:10:36] <PetefromTn> The encoder will require a shaft adapter and a simple mount all homebuilt so no extra costs.
[00:10:59] <PetefromTn> Looking for easy but also looking for dead reliable mostly.
[00:11:04] <PCW> We really should make a one channel sserial resolver interface
[00:11:16] <andypugh> The resolver is a higher-quality transducer, but that is probably irrelevant
[00:11:28] <PetefromTn> why?
[00:11:47] <PCW> they tend to be tougher
[00:12:05] <PCW> (than encoders)
[00:12:28] <PetefromTn> Well it lasted this long and looks virtually brand new. I would be happy to reinstall it if I can figure out how it went back together LOL.
[00:13:09] <andypugh> Well, the encoder will be entirely adequate. The resolver is tougher and contamination-resistant, but by converting to quadrature pulses you are losing the absolute-position advantage. (Though, if the Pico adapter is near the PC, then there is very little chance of intereference)
[00:13:15] <PetefromTn> To get the spindle positioning and speed feedback would I route the encoder information into the 7i77 or into the drive? Not even sure it will take that info just yet.
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[00:13:34] <andypugh> Into the 7i77.
[00:13:34] <PCW> to the 7I77
[00:14:08] <Valen> andypugh: looks cold wherever you are ;->
[00:14:22] <PCW> so linuxCNC can slave the Z axis for tapping etc
[00:14:23] <PetefromTn> Okay thats good. The PC is again up in front of the machine housed inside the rather large original pendant. The 7i77 is out back...
[00:14:53] <PetefromTn> Will that result in accurate spindle alignment for toolchange operations?
[00:15:14] <PCW> yes with some HAL work
[00:15:24] <andypugh> PCW: A set of smart-serial resolver boards would have worked nicely for my setup, but I suspect that with all the cleverness required on-board they might be expensive. (Unless they only returned the analogue amplitudes, and left the conversion to angle to HAL)
[00:15:26] <skunkworks> over those distances - the speed of light doesn’t effect you :)
[00:15:33] <PetefromTn> Of course LOl...
[00:16:12] <andypugh> Right, time to go.
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[00:16:20] <PCW> For 1 or 2 channels I think it would be cheap (say $59.00 or some such)
[00:16:21] <PetefromTn> Huh?
[00:17:05] <PCW> that was too fast to say goodbye
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[00:17:26] <PetefromTn> Pete, if this were your machine with an eye to making it bulletproof as possible and you needed to make the spindle work as designed which way would you go here I guess that is what I am looking for.
[00:18:23] <PCW> I would probably use the encoder that your friend has. If there are noise problem, then they can be dealt with
[00:19:10] <PetefromTn> Apparently LinuxCNC can work with the 180 out mask and I can use the encoder pulse for spindle alignment and I suppose I can use the line driver to convert to differential signal
[00:19:25] <PCW> (either with a line driver at the encoder of digital filtering of the encoder inputs)
[00:19:47] <PetefromTn> Or would it be better to use the differential encoder of the same basic design with the driver built in..
[00:20:33] <PCW> the mask might need to be gated with the index signal externally
[00:21:06] <PetefromTn> Basically this....http://www.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?lang=en&keywords=heds-5540%20a06&WT.term=heds-5540%20a06&WT.mc_id=Sensors,%20Transducers&WT.medium=cpc&WT.campaign=Sensors,%20Transducers&WT.srch=1&WT.content=text&WT.source=google&cur=USD
[00:21:34] <PetefromTn> or this....http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/HEDL-5540%23A06/516-2750-ND/2219462
[00:21:48] <PetefromTn> How would that be done?
[00:22:39] <PCW> What sensor does the i80 mask use?
[00:22:45] <PCW> 180
[00:23:09] <PetefromTn> It has a simple proximity sensor with a ramp on the spindle body that makes the contact for half the duration of rotation
[00:24:17] <PetefromTn> I was just planning on hitting an input on the 7i77 with it as well as the rest of the same sensors which control the tool clamp, tool unclamp, and tool present sensing.
[00:27:49] <PCW> Probably all doable in HAL i was thinking of index mask but you are not threading so index is really only needed for spindle orient
[00:29:32] <PetefromTn> I dunno we are going to rigid tap....?
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[00:31:03] <PCW> rigid tap does not need index
[00:31:27] <PCW> (AFAIK)
[00:32:07] <PCW> but your spindle orient would be more repeatable with it
[00:32:55] <PetefromTn> Okay I have never configured an actual rigid tap. My RF45 used a floating tap head and open loop spindle control with my best attempts at synchronizing LOL
[00:33:20] <s1dev> anyone know anything about the Taig lathe and mill?
[00:34:08] <PetefromTn> as far as I know I HAVE to have the index for spindle alignment. Basically the index only works when the mask is off so you don't get a 180 out condition which would be bad...
[00:34:22] <PetefromTn> s1dev: Yeah they're cute!! LOL
[00:35:11] <s1dev> PetefromTn: I don't have the space for and can't afford much more than $1000
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[00:35:30] <skunkworks> PetefromTn: where are you mounting this encoder?
[00:35:36] <PetefromTn> Taig's are actually quite nice for their size
[00:35:55] <PetefromTn> skunkworks: on the top of the spindle motor where the resolver once was..
[00:36:28] <skunkworks> what is the ratio between the spindle motor and the spindle ?
[00:36:35] <PetefromTn> 2-1
[00:36:38] <skunkworks> oh
[00:36:53] <PetefromTn> 6k spindle RPM 12k Motor RPM max
[00:37:05] <skunkworks> yikes
[00:37:16] <PetefromTn> howyamean?
[00:37:23] <skunkworks> so you are going to get 2 indexes for every rotation of the spindle..
[00:37:39] <skunkworks> is it a timing belt?
[00:37:40] <s1dev> PetefromTn there's a cheap kit model K1019 for $163 I know I'll have to get the tailstock and pulleys, but what else do I need?
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[00:37:53] <skunkworks> like - it is always exactly 2:1
[00:38:15] <PetefromTn> yup and there is a 180 out spindle proximity sensor on the spindle body that was used to mask the other index pulse
[00:38:29] <s1dev> later I'll get a 1/2 hp sherline motor but for now I'll stick with the terrible one that comes with it
[00:38:40] <PetefromTn> Yup timing belt... always 2-1
[00:38:56] <skunkworks> ah - so I think you do want to do what you say you do... You want to mask one of the indexes - even for rigid tapping...
[00:39:02] <skunkworks> PCW: ?
[00:40:13] <PCW> Does rigid tapping use the index? seems unnecessary (I know threading uses index)
[00:40:14] <PetefromTn> s1dev: Here ya go..http://www.cartertools.com/setup.html
[00:40:20] <skunkworks> yes
[00:40:41] <skunkworks> PCW: so each thread starts the same place...
[00:40:44] <s1dev> PetefromTn thanks
[00:40:46] <skunkworks> if needed
[00:41:04] <PetefromTn> Well wouldn't you only use the index mask for the alignment not rigid tap?
[00:41:37] <PCW> Sounds like its always needed
[00:42:35] <r00t4rd3d> Green Lantern
[00:42:37] <r00t4rd3d> http://i.imgur.com/4UPIBrT.jpg
[00:43:06] <PCW> so that means it does need to be masked
[00:43:07] <PCW> I think this can be done in HAL by gating the index enable pin but its ugly sinec index-enable is a bidirectional signal
[00:43:09] <skunkworks> PCW: is there a way to do index masking with the 5i25?
[00:43:11] <PetefromTn> COOL...
[00:43:36] <Connor> skunkworks: PCW said their is.
[00:43:42] <Connor> I already talked with him about this..
[00:43:59] <PCW> possibly with a custom config (that steals a encoder pin from a unused channel for use as index mask)
[00:44:03] <PetefromTn> Honestly wouldn't you use the index mask all the time either for alignment OR rigid tap?
[00:44:16] <skunkworks> PetefromTn: in this situation - yes.
[00:44:56] <Connor> The OTHER option is a hardware mask.. That's basically a simple AND gate.
[00:45:05] <PCW> Yes
[00:45:34] <PetefromTn> so what makes this difficult then? Apparently this is how the machine worked initially before I got my grubby little hands on it and gutted the bejeezus out of it LOL
[00:45:47] <PetefromTn> Would that work at 12k RPM?
[00:46:04] <Connor> PCW Custom config? I thought they're was a way to do it already...
[00:46:08] <PCW> the encoder counters have a index mask option but it not normally available in the 7I77 configs
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[00:46:21] <Connor> Ahh.
[00:46:27] <PCW> custom 5i25 firmware
[00:46:42] <PetefromTn> Oh crap now we are getting complicated...
[00:46:50] <Connor> PetefromTn: Nah..
[00:46:54] <skunkworks> eh - no worries.
[00:47:05] <PetefromTn> Oh worries man.....WORRIES!!
[00:47:30] <PetefromTn> s1dev: you making that lathe CNC?
[00:48:44] <PCW> pretty sure you could do it in HAL though 12000 RPM is 200 Hz so there would be up to 72 degrees phase shift if sampled at 1 KHz
[00:49:12] <PetefromTn> that with a 500 liner?
[00:49:16] <skunkworks> that might be easier - if you can figure out the bi-directional index...
[00:49:26] <skunkworks> (you are just worried about the index...)
[00:49:53] <PCW> the othe rpossible issue is if the Prox is fast enough (it may have only been used for spindle orient)
[00:49:55] <PetefromTn> I'm worried about my Z axis tearing my toolchanger off the side of the machine LOL.
[00:50:19] <PetefromTn> Oh that is true did not think of that....
[00:51:26] <PetefromTn> Probably not gonna be tapping at any more than say 1k RPM and that is only if I get REALLY brave LOL
[00:51:29] <PCW> on the other hand I doubt you will be rigid tapping at 6000 RPM
[00:51:38] <PCW> Ha
[00:51:42] <PetefromTn> Yuppers
[00:52:24] <PetefromTn> Typically 2-300
[00:52:49] <Connor> okay, what about my idea of using a external AND gate to mux the two signals together and send them into the index input ?
[00:53:10] <PetefromTn> This is a dilemma that I need to sort out before I can move any further with this machine and the toolchanger is gonna be a must have.
[00:53:11] <Connor> they 180 out has a ramp that covers 1/2 of the spindle..
[00:53:14] <PCW> maybe an OPTO
[00:53:38] <skunkworks> Connor: aww - don't take the fun out of it... ;)
[00:53:46] <PCW> (if the PROX is a 24V device)
[00:54:11] <PetefromTn> The prox sensors look almost like machine screws with wires coming out the back dunno the part number so finding the max rated cyclic speed will be difficult
[00:54:13] <Connor> PCW we're assuming it is because the machine s 24v, 110v
[00:54:21] <PetefromTn> LOTSA FUN of course...
[00:54:38] <s1dev> PetefromTn eventually
[00:55:38] <Connor> skunkworks: Why is that taking all the fun out of it? :)
[00:55:41] <PetefromTn> s1dev: might also look for one of the industrial sherline models that were used for training CNC people and retrofit it with linuxCNC, they pop up on ebay often and already have a lot of what you want there....
[00:56:05] <Connor> PCW What are you thinking with a Opto ?
[00:56:37] <s1dev> PetefromTn how often is often and how much is it usually?
[00:56:49] <Connor> Have one side of it powered by the prox sensor output and the other side on the encoder index output ?
[00:56:50] <PetefromTn> Pretty cheap and fairly often...
[00:57:08] <PetefromTn> Like a couple hundred or less..
[00:57:23] <s1dev> oh wow
[00:58:18] <PCW> Yeah I was thinking of OPTO as a series gate with a pulldown (assuming active high index)
[00:58:54] <skunkworks> we are still using the original prox sensor and circuit that came with the k&t (tool chain pocket sensor).. I just worked so - wth
[00:58:59] <skunkworks> 60's vintage
[00:59:02] <s1dev> how does it compare to the taig lathes? looking at pictures of the sherline mill, the spindle is supported by a single bar whereas the taig mill is supported by a square extrusion
[00:59:46] <Connor> That would be easy to make.. What about differential signal?
[01:00:01] <Connor> or do we need to worry with it on the index ?
[01:00:14] <PetefromTn> s1dev: Dunno man they are both tiny machines and very light duty but you would be amazed at some of the stuff folks make with them.
[01:01:14] <Connor> Dinner time, back in a while.
[01:02:17] <PetefromTn> s1dev: also look at the EMCO training lathes... they are probably much nicer quality and I've seen them go for cheap not working controls as well...
[01:03:48] <PetefromTn> Connor: enjoy dude...
[01:05:08] <PetefromTn> s1dev: look at the Compact 5 model and wait for a smokin' deal to pop up.
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[01:10:03] <PetefromTn> Would this idea to use the AND gate setup require a special board?
[01:11:47] <s1dev> PeterfromTn those I'd look on ebay as well right
[01:11:54] <skunkworks> it would require a custom made board by Connor the way it sounds "_
[01:11:57] <skunkworks> :)
[01:12:58] <PCW> Its also doable via a custom 5i25 config but you would have to translate the prox's 24V output to TTL
[01:13:23] <PetefromTn> s1dev: yup, there was a manufacturer that specialized in making these kinds of training CNC lathes and they came in a nice neat tabletop package but the name escapes me right now. I am sure if you search for these types of lathes you will happen upon one.
[01:13:38] <PetefromTn> skunkworks: LOL Connor is da man...LOL
[01:13:48] <PCW> (and route the TTL signal to a spare encoder input pin on the 7I77)
[01:14:29] <PetefromTn> PCW: what do you mean translate the 24v output to TTL ya mean drop the voltage to5v?
[01:14:37] <PCW> Yes
[01:15:25] <PetefromTn> can I use the same encoder input that the spindle drive is using IE the number five encoder inputs? Perhaps one of the pin 16-19 encoder inputs in the input section?
[01:15:41] <PetefromTn> How can you do that and would it be fast enough?
[01:16:12] <PetefromTn> Hate to sound so damn clueless about this stuff but hey man I live there sorry.
[01:17:48] <PCW> you would need to steal a pin from encoder channel (say 3 or 4)
[01:18:08] <PetefromTn> I can do that...
[01:18:12] <PCW> or perhaps on 5I25 P2
[01:18:38] <PetefromTn> Again that is up front in the computer about ten physical feet from the 7i77...
[01:19:08] <s1dev> PetefromTn something like this? it's a compact 8, what's the difference? http://www.ebay.com/itm/EMCO-COMPACT-8-LATHE-/321101832455?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4ac3292107
[01:19:16] <Connor> Back. Good spaghetti.
[01:19:57] <Connor> I always forget about the second connector on the 5i25.
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[01:21:36] <PetefromTn> s1dev: well that is a little larger and not CNC.... I am sure you are also aware of the HF mini lathes too. cheap lower quality but tons of folks use them and make them CNC too..
[01:21:38] <Connor> okay. So PetefromTn Either use 5i25 with custom firmware. which will still require a TTL Logic Shift board (24v to 5v) and use a pin from the second connector.. or a hardware AND gate..
[01:22:23] <Connor> If someone can draw up a schematic of it.. I can build it.
[01:22:25] <PetefromTn> Okay that's so easy....NOT? I dunno what you guys are talking about really here other than the basic concepts
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[01:23:05] <PetefromTn> Again the 5i25 is over ten feet away and we are already dealing with a signal loss problem with the encoder itself no?
[01:23:32] <Connor> PetefromTn: Firmware would have to be provided by PCW. :) I know NOTHING of their firmware.. and we just upload it.. then everything else it straight forward..
[01:23:37] <Tom_itx> yes
[01:23:48] <PetefromTn> IF we went with something the AND gate seems the most logical altho not sure about making it noise resistant since the thing wil be pretty near the spindle drive, big monster.
[01:23:48] <Tom_itx> woops, scrollback bites again
[01:24:08] <PetefromTn> Tom_itx: Yes what?
[01:24:20] <Connor> I don't think so.. because you still have to shift it to 5v.. so, shift it to 5v right before it comes to the 2nd connector. let the normal index go to the encoder 5 index pin.
[01:24:48] <s1dev> PetefromTn I figure that if I'm going to get a harbor freight lathe I might as well get a taig lathe with a longer bed, put in a sherline motor, probably some tooling and end up in the same place as the HF lathes am I correct in this assumption?
[01:24:49] <PetefromTn> LOL
[01:25:49] <Connor> on the and gate hardware solution... it'll be in the electronics enclosure.. prox sensor and index from encoder go into it.. and then a muxed signal comes out and goes into 7i77
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[01:26:30] <PetefromTn> S1 yes with my limited knowledge of the subject that is correct. You do realize these are REALLY TINY LATHES right? I mean take a good look at the pictures of the taig assembly I sent you the link to and compare the guys hands to the pieces parts. If a lathe that small will work for what you want to do any of the aforementioned models should work fine.
[01:26:57] <Connor> Honestly, we can try both solutions.. neither are expensive.
[01:27:14] <PetefromTn> what does muxed mean? Oh and while I am looking stupid what does compiling linuxCNC mean?
[01:27:34] <PetefromTn> Oh I like inexpensive solutions....when they work LOL
[01:27:45] <Connor> muxed = combining two signals together into 1 using some sort of logic.
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[01:28:17] <s1dev> PetefromTn I just want to get the best lathe I can for the money
[01:28:28] <PetefromTn> s1dev: Another one to look at is the Boxford machines....just checked ebay and none are on there that look okay sorry..
[01:28:29] <Connor> compiling means converting humane readable source code into machine code so the computer can execute the instructions. :)
[01:30:02] <Connor> using a AND circuit.. you take 0 & 0 = 0, 1 & 0 = 0, 0 & 1 = 0, 1 & 1 = 1
[01:30:25] <PetefromTn> s1dev: My advice is buy the LARGEST lathe of the highest quality you can afford and cry about the price once. The Sherline, Taig, mini, etc etc are very very small and limited on both work envelope and horsepower. If all you make is very small pieces then they are excellent machines. If you ever plan on making anything more than a few inches round you will probably be unhappy with them.
[01:30:39] <Connor> so, the only time the output is 1 is when both index and 180 out sensor are active. :)
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[01:30:52] <PCW> bbl ttgh
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[01:31:48] <PetefromTn> Believe it or not the AND part I knew LOL... It's how to make it work in harmony and look professional without wires hanging in space and resulting in a DEAD RELIABLE feedback..
[01:32:01] <PetefromTn> What does BBL TTGH mean?
[01:32:13] <Connor> Umm.. Google that one.. :)
[01:32:23] <PetefromTn> kay...Googling...
[01:32:55] <Connor> individually..
[01:33:08] <Connor> Or ask your oldest .. She'll know. :)
[01:33:56] <PetefromTn> Be Back Later, Time to Go home?
[01:34:15] <Connor> yup
[01:35:11] <PetefromTn> Oh you guys are so silly with all of your little urban computer nerd slang tee hee....
[01:35:19] <Connor> http://www.torrent-invites.com/miscellaneous/75977-guide-abbreviations-irc-chat.html
[01:36:14] <PetefromTn> Thanks dude... I'll cherish it always LOL
[01:36:59] <Connor> as far as making something hang in space.. We'll but terminal blocks on it and make it look nice..
[01:37:16] <Connor> and you be able to mount it in the enclosure cleanly.
[01:37:50] <PetefromTn> So to sum it up, Buy either the single ended encoder and the line drivers or the differential encoder and splice the ribbon cable into the milspec barrel connector on the motor side?
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[01:38:27] <Connor> Yea. I don't think this part of it has anything to do with the encoder used..
[01:38:46] <Connor> Only thing I have a question about is having to have the index differential too..
[01:39:38] <Connor> and that might be as simple as having 2 OPTO's in the circuit, 1 for each side..
[01:39:59] <PetefromTn> Maybe putting the encoder on the spindle body is worth the effort to make the bracketry so I don't have to mess with all of this electronics wizardry...
[01:41:01] <PetefromTn> Sure wish there was a real simple easy way to do it.. Nothing I do is ever easy...LOL
[01:41:04] <Connor> Honestly.. It's up to you.. But.. I think this with the and circuit or input mask is the way to go.
[01:41:43] <Connor> http://upload.kanakh.com/uploads/12950178032.jpg
[01:41:47] <Connor> take a look at this..
[01:42:28] <Connor> Opto. Prox sensor on the right side...
[01:42:36] <Connor> err.. LEFT side.
[01:43:00] <Connor> index on the right. (acting as VCC)
[01:43:24] <PetefromTn> Wow that's nice.....errr what the hell is it?
[01:43:26] <Connor> when both prox and index are active.. it'll output a signal.
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[01:44:27] <Connor> okay, tell ya what. CONFIRM for me what the voltage is on those prox sensor and what wire is what.. and I'll build and test the circuit.
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[01:45:18] <Connor> I MAY even already have opto's that'll work.. I need to check.
[01:47:23] <PetefromTn> I will try but honestly I don't know how to, I will poke around with it tomorrow and see if I can make it work with 24vdc, that way if it IS 110vdc I can just not worry about blowing anything right?
[01:47:48] <Connor> Well.. I was hoping Lee could tell us.
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[01:50:40] <jdh> I have a bunch of DIN optos, and TTL->24vdc, but not 24->TTL
[01:50:42] <PetefromTn> Just emailed him eariler about the encoder he used and how he did it and now I sent anther email about the sensors... Maybe by morning we will have an answer...
[01:51:34] <PetefromTn> jdh: Oh man that would be sweet if there is such a thing as the 24v-TTL optos with Din Rail mounts....
[01:53:02] <PetefromTn> Just googled it and apparently there is....
[01:53:31] <Connor> More needed than just a opto though. . Need a few resistors in it as well.
[01:55:04] <PetefromTn> http://www.calex.com/cis549.html
[01:58:42] <r00t4rd3d> http://www.engadget.com/2013/04/09/att-1gbps-fiber-internet-austin-texas-official/
[01:58:48] <jdh> this is for index only, no need for real speed?
[01:59:02] <Connor> jdh: Correct. Just up to 6k rpm
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[01:59:06] <r00t4rd3d> now att planning fiber for austin too
[02:00:53] <PetefromTn> Well we do need spindle speed feedback...
[02:01:22] <Connor> index will be 12k RPM prox sensor will be 6k RPM.
[02:01:30] <Connor> But, that's slow
[02:01:47] <Connor> that's only 200hz.
[02:02:46] <Connor> http://www.cncgalore.com/Cincinnati%20Machinery%20Parts/1251741-158808-cincinnati-arrow-500-magnetic-spindle-orientation-sensors
[02:02:50] <Connor> That's the sensors..
[02:03:34] <Connor> Hmm.. that one photo shows 2 different sizes..
[02:04:13] <PetefromTn> Doesn't tell us anything we don't already know right?
[02:04:28] <Connor> I was hoping it did.. but those numbers I think are internal to that site.
[02:04:42] <PetefromTn> How is it 200hz?
[02:05:06] <Connor> 12000 RPM / 60 = 200
[02:05:29] <Connor> 200 times per second. is 200 Hz.
[02:06:18] <jdh> looked through boxes.. have ttl->relay and ttl optos->5-48vdc
[02:07:27] <PetefromTn> Okay man thanks for lookin'
[02:07:44] <PetefromTn> Sorry for the bonehead on the HZ
[02:07:51] <jdh> replaced one of my heat pumps last week because it looked like crap and thought it would die soon, but it was still working. The other one died today
[02:08:07] <Connor> Nice. :(
[02:08:48] <Connor> Damn. Can't find crap on the true part #'s for those prox switches..
[02:09:16] <PetefromTn> Yeah man Sorry for the heat pump dude...
[02:09:58] <jdh> yeah, they are 21 years old... can't complain.
[02:10:08] <Connor> Time to go vedge out a bit..
[02:10:13] <Connor> long day.
[02:12:01] <PetefromTn> Yeah me too... Thanks for all the help guys...peace
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[03:07:52] <FinboySlick> pcw_home: Are you awake?
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[03:09:56] <pcw_home> barely
[03:10:43] <FinboySlick> pcw_home: I have a very basic vhdl question for you. You use xilinx?
[03:14:19] <pcw_home> Yes
[03:14:45] <FinboySlick> http://pastebin.ca/2354300 a => a(7 downto 0) & a(31 downto 8) is the bit throwing me an obscure warning.
[03:15:22] <FinboySlick> Should I be declaring an alias instead, or a signal?
[03:17:21] <FinboySlick> Sorry if it looks ugly and pointless btw, this is my third evening actually trying to learn the syntax so I'm very noob.
[03:17:39] <AR_> learn verilog instead it is highly superior
[03:17:59] <AR_> vhdl is so 2004
[03:18:11] <FinboySlick> Heh. I'll hopefully learn both.
[03:18:17] <FinboySlick> But I decided to start with vhdl.
[03:18:26] <r00t4rd3d> cnczone workin for anyone else?
[03:18:43] <pcw_home> verilog is a mess
[03:18:49] <AR_> rofl
[03:18:56] <AR_> vhdl is less organised imo
[03:19:10] <AR_> verilog is closer to C organization
[03:19:18] <pcw_home> Yuck
[03:19:27] <FinboySlick> OK, guys, you can only argue languages once I have my answer ;)
[03:19:31] <AR_> lol
[03:19:37] <pcw_home> a bad macro processor followed by an assembler
[03:19:38] <AR_> what is the problem
[03:20:27] <FinboySlick> "Actual for formal port a is neither a static name nor a globally static expression" On the line where I try to use &
[03:20:56] <FinboySlick> The only google result was just as cryptic as the message.
[03:21:04] <AR_> i dunno
[03:21:13] <AR_> i'm kindof confused as to what a(7 downto 0) & a(31 downto 8) is doing
[03:21:42] <AR_> bitwise anding an 8 bit with a 23 bit word
[03:21:45] <AR_> ????
[03:21:48] <pcw_home> a byte rotate
[03:21:57] <AR_> oh
[03:22:05] <AR_> weird
[03:22:12] <pcw_home> & is concatenate
[03:23:14] <pcw_home> Your code looks really weird to me, what are you trying to do?
[03:25:02] <FinboySlick> pcw_home: Well, it's just an experiment. I'm trying to implement "(a rightotate 7) xor (a rightrotate 18) xor (a rightshift 3)"
[03:25:29] <FinboySlick> Mostly toying with instantiation and what not, cutting my teeth on the language.
[03:25:57] <pcw_home> the first function looks OK the second one has strange port map foo in the middle
[03:26:03] <AR_> horribly inefficient
[03:26:51] <FinboySlick> pcw_home: I thought that was how I instantiate the 3 branch 32bit xor I defined above.
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[03:29:11] <pcw_home> Yes I guess so
[03:29:13] <FinboySlick> my 's0' block is basically something that takes the initial 32bits of a, shuffles them, and outputs the result.
[03:30:08] <AR_> in case anyone uses SpeedyMetals and needs stock:
[03:30:09] <AR_> http://media.speedymetals.com/5751/Speedy-Metals-2013-04.png
[03:30:30] <pcw_home> You dont have a a signal
[03:31:44] <FinboySlick> pcw_home: I thought that was defined on line 18.
[03:32:14] <pcw_home> Nope those are just formal parameters
[03:33:23] <FinboySlick> OK, so I'll have my original 32bit value coming in on port a of block s0. How do I create a signal out of that?
[03:34:30] <pcw_home> signal MyrealA : std_logic_vector(31 downto 0)
[03:35:26] <FinboySlick> pcw_home: Wouldn't I need that in xor_3_32 too then? It doesn't have a, b or c signals.
[03:36:00] <FinboySlick> (I'm probably missing something obvious here)
[03:36:32] <pcw_home> things on the right side of the port map assignment are real signals or variables
[03:36:34] <pcw_home> on the left are the formal parameter names
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[03:37:50] <pcw_home> no because you have not actually invoked the function at that point, just defined it
[03:38:15] <pcw_home> to invoke the function you need the actual data
[03:38:28] <FinboySlick> Ok, it's clearer now.
[03:39:53] <FinboySlick> So I need to create a signal for the input and output of s0
[03:41:34] <pcw_home> well wait a second it should be OK its a more subtle error
[03:42:07] <FinboySlick> Technically, it's a warning, not an error. I'm just trying to understand what it means.
[03:44:47] <pcw_home> try doing the concatenation somewhere other than the port map line (What you can do in port map lines is limited)
[03:45:46] <FinboySlick> pcw_home: If I define a variable, will it create actual logic on the chip or will it be equivalent?
[03:45:54] <pcw_home> I know subranges work but it may be the concatenation is a bit to exotic
[03:46:49] <pcw_home> no, it will be minmized away if not registered
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[03:50:36] <pcw_home> rot8 process (a)
[03:50:38] <pcw_home> begin
[03:50:40] <pcw_home> newa <= a(7 downto 0) & a(31 downto 8);
[03:50:41] <pcw_home> end;
[03:50:43] <pcw_home> Port Map(
[03:50:45] <pcw_home> a => newa,
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[03:58:05] <pcw_home> I probably would have defined these as functions as it makes them clearer when invoked
[03:58:40] <FinboySlick> pcw_home: Heh, I will very likely do that too. I'm just toying with building blocks right now. 'process' is new to me. I'm reading documentation on it now.
[03:58:54] <FinboySlick> pcw_home: Thanks a bunch for your help, btw.
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[03:59:29] <FinboySlick> vhdl is a bit of an undertaking when you've never played with programmable logic before.
[04:00:00] <FinboySlick> This is trickier than having my arduino blink a led.
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[04:00:31] <pcw_home> I took me a while to understand out what actually gets inferred from the VHDL
[04:00:55] <FinboySlick> Heh, I synthesize and then I look at the logic blocks ;)
[04:01:35] <FinboySlick> But anyway. Time for me to sleep.
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[04:18:37] <Connor> pcw_home: On the prox sensor and index for Pete's machine.. Prox sensor goes into the High voltage side of the opto... How does the index get wired in ?
[04:18:53] <Connor> Going to build a test circuit..
[04:32:34] <r00t4rd3d> is cnczone working for anyone?
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[04:34:48] <r00t4rd3d> can anyone check?
[04:34:50] <r00t4rd3d> anyoen
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[04:45:28] <jdh> no
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[04:52:57] <GammaX> Hey everyone.
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[05:38:09] <WalterN> L84Supper: poke
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[09:12:34] <DJ9DJ> moin
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[11:19:32] <mr_new> .
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[11:28:49] <skunkworks> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dEdk5EhLa54
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[11:36:07] <jthornton> which gui is that?
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[11:38:01] <skunkworks> it looks like axis...
[11:38:11] <skunkworks> to me
[11:38:37] <jthornton> ah yes
[11:39:07] <jthornton> just a pyvcp panel then
[11:39:10] <skunkworks> yes
[11:39:12] <skunkworks> and tabs
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[12:03:55] <PetefromTn> Mornin' fellas...
[12:06:51] <carper64_lb> hi everybody
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[12:10:41] <PetefromTn> carper64_lb: Heya
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[12:20:37] <Tom_itx> jthornton, making any progress with your avr venture?
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[12:45:02] <alex_joni> https://blog.freenode.net/2013/04/april-1st-2013-the-aftermath/
[12:45:08] <alex_joni> yay.. made the lists :)
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[13:17:02] <skunkworks> wow
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[13:31:41] <alex_joni> skunkworks: howdy
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[13:40:00] <PetefromTn> skunkworks: Hey man mornin'
[13:40:41] <JT-Shop> Tom_itx: I got side tracked
[13:48:41] <skunkworks> Morning!
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[13:51:01] <R2E4_awy> moanin
[13:51:30] <PetefromTn> Moanin' R2...
[13:51:56] <R2E4_awy> hey Pete. R U from Texas?
[13:52:46] <PetefromTn> Hey guys I am working on my Y axis today, got the motor leads setup now so they will fit inside the column so now I can install the motor finally. Once I do that I am planning to start the PID tuning using the Halscope setup. Never done that and was hoping some of you could maybe help walk me thru it?
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[13:53:25] <PetefromTn> R2E4_awy: No man but been there a few times.....HOT there outside. The wind felt like an massive industrial strength hair dryer LOL
[13:53:46] <R2E4_awy> right..... Tennessee then?
[13:54:35] <PetefromTn> Well I am not FROM Tennessee I just live here LOL... I was born in upstate NY and grew up in Florida.
[13:54:59] <R2E4_awy> I was born and raised in Clearwater Florida.
[13:55:02] <PetefromTn> Why RU from texas
[13:55:35] <R2E4_awy> No, I was just messing around and for some reason I correlated TN to Texas instead of Tennessee....:-)
[13:55:43] <PetefromTn> Love Clearwater, I spent a lot of time in the US Coast Guard aboard the Cutter Steadfast based in that area.
[13:56:04] <R2E4_awy> Ah yeah. Gotta love Tampa Bay.
[13:56:10] <PetefromTn> They also have CGAS Clearwater over there too...
[13:56:44] <PetefromTn> Used to cruise the beach in my black Jeep as a youth picking up chicks....damn that was a long time ago.
[13:57:17] <PetefromTn> Someone buy my house here in TN so I can move back to Florida LOL.
[13:57:31] <R2E4_awy> AH! sand key when there were no condos and very little condops clearwater beach.
[13:58:01] <R2E4_awy> Now nothing but concrete.
[13:58:35] <PetefromTn> It's really a beautiful area even now I think. If you want more space just move south towards fort myers I think...
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[13:58:59] <R2E4_awy> go north a bit for BACF......
[13:59:02] <jdh> or hang out at the church
[13:59:17] <PetefromTn> I'm gonna go try to stick this motor in my Y axis now or I'll sit here and cry about missing florida LOL
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[14:01:43] <PetefromTn> QUICK stupid question, I am trying to tune my Z axis here. I have been told that since my machine does not have a counterweight on it to add some bias adjustment in the PID calibration page to help the motor rest when it is not moving. If I have my settings correct for homing and the axis is moving in the right direction what should that number be a positive one or a negative one? Can you even put a negative one?
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[14:11:19] <PetefromTn> anyone?
[14:12:45] <jdh> You need an I term to deal with the unidirectional load
[14:16:18] <PetefromTn> Okay what about the Bias, I've been told it is for unidirectional load...
[14:16:22] <jdh> did you try changing the sign and observing the response or errors?
[14:16:38] <jdh> (I have no clue)
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[14:18:23] <PetefromTn> Yeah man I've been playing with it for awhile. Actually the Bias made some difference which is why I thought I was on the right track. I have not played with the I setting because I thought it was kind of a floating adjustment that went in both directions. Just got this thing together a couple days ago so have not even figured out how to setup halscope to view the error.
[14:19:25] <jdh> it probably is.
[14:19:49] <jdh> just in general, if you have a static load one way, you will never reach setpoint without an I
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[14:20:42] <PetefromTn> okay I will play with the I setting some more....any ideas how to setup the halscope to view that?
[14:21:05] <jdh> doesn't JT's tuning tutorial cover that?
[14:21:49] <jdh> http://gnipsel.com/linuxcnc/tuning/servo.html
[14:23:25] <PetefromTn> thanks man...
[14:23:50] <jdh> no I there
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[14:26:06] <PetefromTn> huh?
[14:26:31] <jdh> -> In my case no I or D was used only P, FF1, and FF2.
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[14:27:20] <PetefromTn> thats what I thought but gotta deal with unidirectional load...
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[14:27:39] <jdh> try the bias. I should be last anyway
[14:34:23] <PetefromTn> Whaddya mean you should be last? I just got the Y axis motor installed now I gotta tighten up the coupling and I can test the Y axis finally. Dropped the damn allen wrench inside the coupling housing and can't reach it doh!! Gonna go find my magnet...
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[14:36:09] <r00t4rd3d> http://i.imgur.com/Azs8X9D.jpg
[14:36:18] <r00t4rd3d> http://www.clockparts.com/clock-part/clear-american-made-mini-quartz-movements/
[14:36:43] <r00t4rd3d> I think I can sell those like crack in front of social services building
[14:37:07] <jdh> what happens at the social services building?
[14:37:14] <jdh> clockmaker meetup?
[14:37:17] <r00t4rd3d> welfare
[14:37:46] <PetefromTn> You really have a think for crack dontcha....
[14:39:24] <r00t4rd3d> I laugh my balls off at tyrone biggums
[14:41:23] <PetefromTn> who?
[14:49:39] <jdh> you know, that guy responsible for r00t's eunuch-hood.
[14:54:14] <PetefromTn> Eunuch??? WOW!!
[14:57:29] <PetefromTn> Okay fellas it's official....My Cincinatti Arrow 500 now has full three axis movement!!! YEAH YIPEE YEEHAW....ahem
[14:58:32] <cradek> obligatory http://dilbert.com/strips/comic/1993-11-09/
[14:59:25] <PetefromTn> LOL...cracks me up yuk yuk.
[14:59:40] <cradek> congrats on your movement success
[14:59:55] <jdh> cool
[15:01:06] <R2E4_awy> +cradek: I got the R2E4 drip feed working.
[15:01:44] <cradek> yay/sorry to hear that
[15:01:48] <PetefromTn> Thanks Chris...
[15:02:22] <cradek> means it's working but you won't retrofit it now...
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[15:03:56] <PetefromTn> Whaddya mean?
[15:04:05] <PetefromTn> It is being retrofitted...
[15:04:34] <cradek> PetefromTn: that comment was toward R2E4_awy and his drip feed success
[15:04:53] <PetefromTn> Duh...
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[15:06:12] <R2E4_awy> no, I will do the retrofit.
[15:07:31] <R2E4_awy> I have the mesa boards and linuxcnc installed and ready to go, I wanted to test the drivers and make sure they are ok. I have a few jobs to cut, then will start looking at trying to figure out how to cut out the control.
[15:07:45] <cradek> cool
[15:08:03] <cradek> a working machine is much easier to retrofit than a bunch of unknown/untested parts
[15:08:40] <PetefromTn> You can say that again...
[15:08:41] <R2E4_awy> I may have to implement a PLC to make things ework. Lots of logic on this machine.
[15:09:08] <R2E4_awy> Not to mention my stupidyness.... hehe
[15:09:35] <R2E4_awy> I need the machine to mechanically tell me not to change the tool when the spindle is running....hehe
[15:09:37] <cradek> I don't remember if we used classicladder on the one we did.
[15:10:01] <cradek> R2E4_awy: does it have a power drawbar? I figured it was QC30.
[15:10:23] <cradek> with QC you won't accidentally change a tool with it running...
[15:10:30] <R2E4_awy> no, it has an air brake and some other stuff I wil havbe to figure ot
[15:10:46] <R2E4_awy> yes it is QC30
[15:11:05] <R2E4_awy> spanner wrench type
[15:11:06] <cradek> the brake is nice - makes it easier to change the tool
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[15:12:14] <R2E4_awy> Yeah, its noce when the machine knows when to use it. I may just put a button to remove the run signal for the VFD and hit the air brake solinoid.
[15:12:42] <R2E4_awy> lots to figure out before I do the retrofit.
[15:12:47] <cradek> why not brake whenever the spindle is off
[15:13:48] <R2E4_awy> Yeah, I guess I could, if my vfd has an output for motor running. I can apply the brake when the motor stops.
[15:14:20] <PetefromTn> Mine has a zero speed output...
[15:14:27] <R2E4_awy> sWould there be a time when I would need the brake to be off when the spindle is off re: cleaning, maintenance.
[15:15:08] <R2E4_awy> I knbow mine has two outputs and I think they are programmabl;e so I may be able to use that.
[15:16:29] <cradek> yeah it's nice to be able to turn the spindle freely sometimes.
[15:16:54] <cradek> does the R2E4 have the two-handed spindle start (twist knob-poke button)?
[15:16:55] <jthornton> I use the b key
[15:16:59] <cradek> I kind of like that
[15:17:10] <R2E4_awy> thesehuh?
[15:17:23] <cradek> ?
[15:17:27] <R2E4_awy> huh? What is the twist knob-poke button....hehe
[15:17:47] <cradek> to start the spindle you twist a knob with your left hand and poke a button with your right
[15:17:53] <cradek> iirc
[15:17:56] <R2E4_awy> ah.... yeah
[15:18:07] <cradek> you twist it one way for high gear and the other way for low
[15:18:16] <R2E4_awy> hig gear low gear select while hitting spindle enable
[15:18:21] <cradek> just twisting (no poke) releases the brake so you can orient
[15:18:49] <R2E4_awy> I hear a relay when I twist.
[15:19:07] <cradek> air switch
[15:19:09] <R2E4_awy> I thought that just enebaled the wife to shout.
[15:20:03] <R2E4_awy> I haven't gotten into the peripherals yet. Need to find all the relays and the acc totrigger.
[15:20:46] <JT-Shop> I like "my round square is slower than my square round because of cv" LOL
[15:22:27] <cradek> JT-Shop: he made the segments shorter (replaced 1" lines with .5" lines and .39" arcs)
[15:23:06] <JT-Shop> right, I saw that and had a P of .125
[15:23:24] <cradek> a more valid test of blending (avoiding the segment-length-based speed limitation) would replace the 1" lines with 1" lines and 1" arcs
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[15:23:49] <JT-Shop> 1" long arcs?
[15:23:54] <cradek> often people misunderstand the actual limitation so they argue about other things :-/
[15:24:04] <cradek> yes
[15:24:27] <JT-Shop> that is my understanding too
[15:25:36] <cradek> a 1" long quarter-circle arc would have radius .64"
[15:25:48] <cradek> ... I think
[15:28:41] <skunkworks> .6366
[15:28:47] <skunkworks> ;)
[15:29:08] <JT-Shop> heh
[15:29:09] <skunkworks> how many wats?
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[15:29:21] <JT-Shop> oh I forgot the conversion factor
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[16:48:12] <mr_new> .
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[16:56:38] <IchGuckLive> hi all B)
[17:00:32] <PetefromTn> howdo?
[17:00:50] <GammaX> Life is going to be bad very soon lol
[17:01:05] <GammaX> got a mill and a lthe to convert over to emc2!
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[17:01:59] <IchGuckLive> emc2 is off use linuxcnc O.O
[17:02:15] <IchGuckLive> GammaX: already mach in use
[17:02:49] <GammaX> am I missing something in regards tio emc2?
[17:03:11] <GammaX> Im not usin mach, thought about it but idk which one would be better....
[17:03:57] <IchGuckLive> GammaX: witch continent are you on
[17:04:03] <PetefromTn> Used mach3 on my first build and now using LinuxCNC.....REALLY LIKE LINUXCNC!!
[17:04:13] <GammaX> USA
[17:04:13] <PetefromTn> North America
[17:04:19] <GammaX> North America...
[17:04:22] <IchGuckLive> ah im in Germany
[17:05:03] <GammaX> PetefromTn, are you using steppers or servos?
[17:05:42] <GammaX> I have steppers on mill and servos on lathe which currently has an anilam crusader lathemate on it.... not lookin forward to it haha
[17:06:13] <PetefromTn> AC servos....Cincinatti Arrow 500 VMC
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[17:07:18] <IchGuckLive> so GammaX start with the mill
[17:07:29] <IchGuckLive> what version of linuxcnc are you on
[17:07:40] <PetefromTn> If you already have a working machine it should be pretty easy...
[17:07:43] <IchGuckLive> or still emc2 in use
[17:07:47] <GammaX> downloading the newest version right now
[17:07:56] <IchGuckLive> livecd
[17:08:10] <GammaX> yup
[17:08:14] <IchGuckLive> ok
[17:08:29] <GammaX> well... iso. does it still only come in livecd form?
[17:10:13] <IchGuckLive> you need a realtime kernal
[17:10:16] <IchGuckLive> so jes
[17:10:19] <IchGuckLive> y
[17:10:39] <IchGuckLive> you know its on linux as it says linuxcnc
[17:10:56] <GammaX> the idea of livecd still scares the hell out of me for a cnc haha.
[17:11:52] <IchGuckLive> you need to install it LOL
[17:12:06] <IchGuckLive> this may give you 2.5.0
[17:12:23] <IchGuckLive> then update and you get the 2.5.2
[17:12:27] <GammaX> ahhh back in the day it was the other way around, no one installed it lol
[17:12:30] <IchGuckLive> then start off
[17:13:15] <GammaX> im thinkin about grabbing the 6i25 package from mesa for the lathe, the mill already has a parralell bob
[17:13:38] <IchGuckLive> as 99% of as
[17:13:40] <IchGuckLive> us
[17:14:02] <IchGuckLive> neme 34 at mill
[17:14:08] <Loetmichel> re @ home
[17:14:25] <PetefromTn> MESA cards are excellent, Love my 5i25/7i77 combo...
[17:14:27] <GammaX> i got 23 on xy and 34 on z
[17:14:42] <PetefromTn> What kinda mill and lathe?
[17:15:03] <GammaX> rf45 mill from precision matthews
[17:15:21] <GammaX> lathe is a hardinge hc with lathemate controller
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[17:15:28] <PetefromTn> LOL I just sold my RF45 Lathemaster CNC to fund this Monster
[17:15:32] <GammaX> its having issues currently,
[17:16:01] <syyl_ws> envy about the hardinge
[17:16:02] <syyl_ws> :)
[17:16:06] <PetefromTn> Hardinge is a NICE lathe. Just recently sold my Hardinge. It was too small once this VMC is up and running I am gonna look to get a nice CNC lathe.
[17:16:09] <GammaX> picked it up for 1800 bucks...
[17:16:35] <PetefromTn> Got ya beat I paid $300 for mine LOL....sold it for $1000
[17:16:40] <syyl_ws> i would kill for a nice hardinge hlv
[17:16:43] <syyl_ws> :/
[17:16:44] <GammaX> supposadly was working but now controller is having issues
[17:17:01] <syyl_ws> thats how a toolroom lathe should look
[17:17:16] <GammaX> Idk if its becuase there is no power going into the lathe itself though...
[17:17:48] <GammaX> came with all servos, encoders, controller and air chuck
[17:18:24] <syyl_ws> :o
[17:19:30] <GammaX> its a gang tooling type setup. One thing im waiting on is this guy to create my belt drive for the rf45.
[17:20:27] <PetefromTn> WHo dat? I think I built the first EXTERNAL belt drive for the Rf45
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[17:24:02] <FinboySlick> pcw_home: Thanks again for yesterday.
[17:27:56] <pcw_home> NP I was a little fuzzy but I have run into the same thing
[17:27:58] <pcw_home> (unlike many programing languages you are limited to doing certain things in certain sections
[17:28:00] <pcw_home> (so no logic in port map section)
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[17:32:59] <FinboySlick> pcw_home: From the implementation report, I see that I only use one flip-flop of the two in each cell with my xor gate. If I wanted to make the xor clock driven, is there a way to infer that I want to use the second flip-flop in those cells (to avoid wasting resources)?
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[17:33:25] <FinboySlick> No need to be very technical about it, I'm at work so can't play with it right now.
[17:33:44] <FinboySlick> I'm just curious as to how much control on the actual hardware one gets.
[17:39:19] <pcw_home> I would not bother, I wouls let the synthesizer so its best
[17:39:31] <pcw_home> do its best
[17:39:56] <pcw_home> it will pack things when is has to
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[17:41:59] <pcw_home> only if you really need speed would I worry about using hand placed logic
[17:42:03] <FinboySlick> pcw_home: I guess so. I just thought that since a lot of my design will revolve around those, I might as well give it a hand from the get go. I'm already not sure how to make them clock driven or what the correct terminology is. Making it sequential?
[17:43:22] <IchGuckLive> GammaX: install ok
[17:45:41] <pcw_home> you can make registered logic by including it block that only executed at a clock edge:
[17:45:43] <pcw_home> if (clk='1' and clk'event)
[17:46:52] <FinboySlick> pcw_home: Heh, it's a lot easier than I expected.
[17:47:33] <pcw_home> Yeah if you have any hardware background its easy to get the hang of it
[17:47:52] <jdh> http://www.hobbytronics.co.uk/serial-vga That looks nifty, but I can't think of anything I would use it for.
[17:49:20] <pcw_home> And I much prefer it to schematic capture
[17:50:18] <FinboySlick> pcw_home: wow, the i25 cards are Spartan-6 based? What model?
[17:51:11] <pcw_home> little one XC6SLX9
[17:52:04] <FinboySlick> Are there headers to recover if completely messed up? It's way cheaper than buying one of those fancy dev kits.
[17:52:15] <mr_new> did you selected the spartan6 cause its serializer for pcie?
[17:52:34] <pcw_home> Yes theres a JTAG header if you have really screwed up
[17:52:41] <FinboySlick> I've been wanting one for a while regardless, but knowing that I can mess with the fpga on it too, I'd get two! ;)
[17:52:52] <pcw_home> No just speed and cost
[17:53:24] <mr_new> i think so you dont need a pcie bridge right?
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[17:53:57] <pcw_home> the 6I25 has a bridge (for cost and ability to bootstrap reasons)
[17:54:48] <mr_new> but it could be done in software, too i think?
[17:55:00] <pcw_home> no
[17:55:04] <FinboySlick> Actually, I'll do that now. They're about 80-so bucks, right?
[17:55:34] <pcw_home> PCIE requires special hardware (the LXT versions)
[17:55:47] <pcw_home> $89 Qty1
[17:56:26] <mr_new> ok... i just had to do hardware design for the virtex5
[17:58:40] <FinboySlick> Can I power the 6i25 from one of the pin assuming that it's dead, or will it have to be in a powered pcie socket? (I expect to mess up often)
[17:59:13] <pcw_home> 6I25 is always recoverable
[18:00:32] <pcw_home> (you can bitbang the config to the SPI EEPROM via the bridge chip: mesaflash does this)
[18:00:36] <FinboySlick> Alright. So email to order, phone for credit card?
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[18:01:20] <mr_new> pcw why not jtag for flash?
[18:01:40] <FinboySlick> mr_new: So people can update flash on an installed card I assume.
[18:01:59] <FinboySlick> It would suck to require jtag for a firmware upgrade.
[18:02:10] <mr_new> i mean when you have destroyed
[18:02:14] <pcw_home> Yes JTAG is last resort
[18:03:02] <mr_new> in production they were programmed, too....
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[18:03:40] <pcw_home> because of the fallback reboot. its really only developers that should ever have to use the JTAG
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[18:04:42] <mr_new> is it a normal 2x10 header?
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[18:04:54] <pcw_home> 6 pin
[18:06:08] <pcw_home> its marked on the board
[18:08:58] <mr_new> i dont have it jet just ordred
[18:10:56] <FinboySlick> OK, order placed. I'm happy.
[18:17:01] <IchGuckLive> im off by
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[18:18:35] <FinboySlick> I got the deluxe kit... Both types of brackets.
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[18:18:57] * FinboySlick is like all blinged out.
[18:21:18] <mr_new> is there a bracket for 2 db25?
[18:21:39] <pcw_home> no
[18:21:49] <pcw_home> wont fit
[18:21:50] <FinboySlick> mr_new: Mine's for high/low profile.
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[18:25:55] <jdh> do you have a bitcoin mining firmware?
[18:26:17] <FinboySlick> jdh: I don't think it'd fit.
[18:26:57] <FinboySlick> You need something like a Spartan6 150.
[18:27:27] <Loetmichel> pcw_home: not true. will fit
[18:27:37] <Loetmichel> but only with one bolt shared ;-)
[18:28:23] <pcw_home> :-)
[18:28:44] <FinboySlick> jdh: Then again, they managed to squeeze two cores on a 150 so maybe single core might work. How fast are they clocked pcw_home?
[18:29:53] <pcw_home> Theres a DCM so you can get any clock you like
[18:30:52] <FinboySlick> If you can fit an unwrapped hasher, you get one hash per Hz.
[18:31:38] <pcw_home> SP6 is not blindingly fast but our little processors (like the one in the sserial interface) run cheerfully at 100 MHz
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[18:33:36] <pcw_home> and unlike most micros the time to do an I/O cycle is 1 clock
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[19:17:42] <skunkworks> mesa in egypt https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XNjKDeiv6bM
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[19:25:39] <r00t4rd3d> mesa in halflife http://i.imgur.com/rL3E2ak.jpg
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[20:25:27] <andypugh> I was trying to set up a home-made brushless motor. I couldn't figure out why I could find a pattern than let it run perfectly in one direction but not the other, and another pattern with the opposite behaviour. When I say "properly" I mean start rotating from any position, and not properly means that I could manually rotate it to "holes" it couldn't climb out of.
[20:26:05] <andypugh> I was most surprised to find that the reason was that one phase was open-circuit!
[20:26:24] <andypugh> I would have thought that would stop it working at all.
[20:30:00] <PetefromTn> Question....
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[20:31:12] <PetefromTn> I just finally got all three axes working in my machine today. Buttoned up the cabling and setup the wiring in the cable chains. Now I am able to get down to business of tuning the PID on all three axes. I am trying to tune the Z axis motor right now.
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[20:33:41] <PetefromTn> It has the weight of the head on it with no counterbalance setup. Reading the tuning guide from gnipsel the first step says to tune the P value for maximum stiffness without oscillation. I am doing that and trying to get it quiet and tight but the motor ALWAYS makes some noise which I am not sure is oscillation or not. It bascially sounds like some kinda AC servo morse code.
[20:34:16] <PetefromTn> It does not appear to be moving at all even very slightly when stationary. Is this satisfactory for the first step LOL?
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[20:53:27] <JT-Shop> are you using halscope to monitor your progress?
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[21:07:44] <DJ9DJ> gn8
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[21:15:12] <PetefromTn> Yup Connor is here helping me right now. We are trying to figure out what pins to look at in halscope because the names in the pid tuning tutorial are different slightly...
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[21:27:37] <mercuryrising> is there any magical trick to increase speed around arcs? my machine can go in straight lines at like 80 mm/s, but around curves it drops down to like 20 mm/s
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[21:42:45] <PCW> your machine acceleration ability/settings will determine how fast you can
[21:42:47] <PCW> go around arcs (unless the arcs are made of tiny line segments)
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[21:45:00] <mercuryrising> the arcs are tiny segments
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[22:02:38] <PetefromTn> Pete ya out there?
[22:02:51] <PetefromTn> PCW: Hey man...
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[22:05:31] <PCW> Are you using blend with tolerance?
[22:05:42] <PCW> G64 PN
[22:06:03] <PCW> http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/common/User_Concepts.html
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[22:08:04] <PCW> PetefromTn: Hey
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[22:11:21] <PetefromTn> PCW: Hey man Connor is here trying to help me tune this Z axis motor, well all of the motors actually. We have the halscope working and we are looking at the Ferror line. When we change the ff1 component it goes from a upslope to a downslope depending on what the setting is. The error appears to be quite small but the Z motor is always kinda making noises that sound like it is hunting ever so slightly. The noise we have
[22:11:21] <PetefromTn> been able to get quieter at times and depending on the position it lands will sometimes go away completely but then you bump the jog and it starts making noise again. Any suggestions?
[22:12:21] <cradek> how many encoder counts is it oscillating/hunting?
[22:12:31] <PetefromTn> How do I tell?
[22:13:40] <PetefromTn> Connor says the noise sounds more like dithering or moaning than hunting perhaps that was a bad term. It just does never really quiet down. We have been playing with bias too trying to get it to quiet
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[22:15:12] <PCW> Its going to be difficult to get it completely quite since it has a static load
[22:15:14] <PCW> (unloaded axis can use deadzone for this purpose)
[22:15:30] <mercuryrising> PCW: not yet, I'll check it out though, thanks!
[22:15:48] <PetefromTn> How much bias should I be using Connor says it is only ticking one encoder count...
[22:18:53] <PCW> I would try adjusting bias for minimum static error (if you have any I term. set it to 0 for this adjustment)
[22:19:42] <PetefromTn> how do we monitor static error?
[22:20:06] <PCW> bias would make more physical sense in torque mode (since it would equate to a force)
[22:20:16] <PCW> ferror
[22:20:23] <Tom_itx> JT-Shop, how's the splitter progressing?
[22:23:02] <PetefromTn> We are up to 2.0 P is at 9 and ff1 is at .04
[22:23:13] <PetefromTn> bias is 2.0
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[22:25:23] <PetefromTn> When you say adjust the bias for minimum static error are you talking about the area before the trace shows the movement?
[22:25:49] <andypugh> Just the minimum offset from the commnded position.
[22:26:19] <andypugh> So, either look at the PID error, or the f-error.
[22:26:38] <andypugh> But you might need to use halmeter to get enough digits of precision.
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[22:28:45] <PetefromTn> Andy, we are using the halscope to monitor the Ferror on the Z axis and the trace bEFORE movement looks perfectly flat unless you blow it up quite a bit with zoom. The dithering does not seem to get better and we are at 2.5 on bias. What are you looking for when you try to adjust a motor for a unidirectional load? What parameters are usually adjusted?
[22:29:42] <PetefromTn> Halmeter says Ferror is -.2748903 and fluctuates to -.2758 or so...
[22:30:29] <andypugh> That's pretty bad, I think? Anyway, see if the bias can make that zero.
[22:32:02] <PetefromTn> Okay how much bias do you think we should try?
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[22:34:54] <andypugh> ABout 0.2748903
[22:35:21] <PetefromTn> is that a joke or are you serious?
[22:35:28] <andypugh> Ah, actually, scratch that.
[22:35:42] <andypugh> What is the steady-state utput of the PID?
[22:36:01] <PetefromTn> Actually we were at 2.5 on the bias and we just went to zero on the bias and the error in halmeter went to .00288
[22:39:00] <PetefromTn> Is that PID in the Z axis or just PID? trying to find that signal...
[22:39:24] <andypugh> probably pid.2
[22:40:08] <PetefromTn> We just hit PID.Z.output and it is fluctuating between .0259 to .0189 or so
[22:40:51] <andypugh> Try a bias of 0.021 then.
[22:41:12] <andypugh> Then possibly a deadband of 2 encoder counts.
[22:41:53] <PetefromTn> Do you mean the deadband setting will be 2.0?
[22:42:13] <andypugh> No, that would be 2 inches!
[22:42:34] <andypugh> Deadband will be however far the axis moves for a couple of encoder counts.
[22:43:00] <PetefromTn> Okay then what do I set it to? Remember we are completely new to this...
[22:43:56] <andypugh> Set it to hawver far the axis moves for a couple of encoder counts. (which will be 2 / your encoder scale number)
[22:44:25] <andypugh> "hawver"? Where the heck did that come from? "However" is the word I wanted.
[22:45:06] <PetefromTn> Okay that would give us .0016?
[22:45:13] <PetefromTn> Encoder scale is 1250
[22:45:30] <andypugh> Are you sure?
[22:45:43] <andypugh> Sounds very low.
[22:46:33] <PetefromTn> When You look at the calibration tab where it says encoder scale it says 1250 which is what the calculator gave us. Already checked travel movemnts and it appears to be spot on as far as distance moved .
[22:46:38] <andypugh> I would expect something nearer to 20,000 for an inch machine.
[22:47:04] <PetefromTn> Well we are running in metric since we have metric ballscrews...
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[22:47:18] <PetefromTn> They are 8mm
[22:47:29] <andypugh> Ah, OK. .0016mm sounds fine then.
[22:48:20] <PetefromTn> Okay just tried it and it did not really help or at least no perceivable change
[22:50:17] <PetefromTn> just noticed that the halmeter showing PID.Z.output fluctuated between the .02209 and .021 and when it changes the motor kinda groans at that instant.
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[23:02:01] <andypugh> sorry, time to go
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[23:35:24] <r00t4rd3d> http://i.imgur.com/hZF5iHR.png
[23:36:56] <r00t4rd3d> Im so doing that
[23:37:01] <r00t4rd3d> fuck cool ranch though
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