#linuxcnc | Logs for 2013-04-07

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[00:33:38] <R2E4_> Hi all
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[01:43:35] <Connor> pcw_home: Still working out the PID and a few other things with the machine... After we home the machine... the Z would show something like 0.003 or so... not sure what that's about..
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[02:12:53] <pfred1> tools are toys
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[03:07:18] <pcw_home> Connor: if Z has a static load it may show a static error unless you have some I term
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[03:07:58] <Connor> you mean I as in the I in PID ?
[03:08:46] <Connor> I think we had the Z around 11 on P, .0001 on I, and i don't recall what D was..
[03:09:53] <Connor> I know when we first fired it up.. the servo buzzed.. I think we had P at 12 at that point..
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[03:12:04] <Connor> And I think we found that FF2 made it not "bang" as hard.. I have no idea what FF0, FF1 FF2 any BIAS are for..
[03:12:23] <pcw_home> Did you look at JTs tuning tutorial?
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[03:12:35] <Connor> I was just looking for the link..
[03:12:40] <Connor> Not sure what I did with it.
[03:12:56] <pcw_home> FF1 is critical for velocity mode tuning
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[03:16:27] <pcw_home> but you will only see its effect during motion
[03:16:32] <pcw_home> http://gnipsel.com/linuxcnc/tuning/servo.html
[03:17:02] <Connor> Yea... that's the one that helped with the "banging" which was a jarring the machine when we changed directions..
[03:18:10] <Connor> Wow. This uses HAL scope.. We didn't even bother with that yet..
[03:18:16] <Connor> Just trail and error.
[03:18:23] <pcw_home> You need to use halscope to see whats happening dynamically
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[03:20:00] <Connor> okay. Well.. Next time I go over there to help him.. I'll bust this link out and use it to help fine tune the PID the.
[03:22:24] <Connor> So, he's not even doing anything with I or D
[03:22:28] <Connor> *boggle*
[03:23:36] <pcw_home> D is not normally needed for velocity mode drives
[03:23:58] <pcw_home> (the drive handles 'D')
[03:24:15] <Connor> This needs to be done under load right? Not the motor simply on the bench..
[03:24:46] <pcw_home> Yes tuning will be different under load
[03:27:38] <Connor> We also got a alarm on his Z from the driver a few times.. not sure I understand it..
[03:28:00] <Connor> Error: 1. The main circuit voltage is exceeded maximum allowable value. (410V) 2. Regeneration voltage is too high.
[03:28:42] <Connor> Corrective Actions: 1. Use multi-meter to check whether the input voltage is within the specified limit. 2. Check the Parameter Cn012 if it is setting correctly. 3. If this alarm appears during operation. Extend ac/deceleration time or reduce load ratio in the permitted range. Otherwise, an external regeneration resistor is needed. (Please contact yo
[03:29:05] <Connor> We no the main circuit voltage was good.. and this was during operation..
[03:31:03] <pcw_home> if you stop too fast and dont have a braking resistor, you will get this
[03:31:37] <pfred1> is it caused by back EMF generated by the motor coils?
[03:31:55] <Connor> Okay, That's what I was thinking.. So, He might need a breaking resistor on the Z.. Didn't have it happen on the X.. but, it wasn't under the load the Z was..
[03:32:13] <Connor> or, I need to decrease the Acc/Dec in the INI file for the Z
[03:32:29] <Connor> He DOES have a break on the Z though.
[03:33:03] <pcw_home> its caused by the mechanical energy being dumped back into the power supply when deccelerating
[03:33:43] <Connor> Which means, it'll happen on the Z because of the weight of the Head when it goes from a Down move to a up move rapidly..
[03:33:46] <pfred1> the servo acts like a generator?
[03:33:55] <Connor> pfred1: Yes.
[03:33:58] <pcw_home> Yes when stopping
[03:34:40] <pcw_home> very fancy/large drives have a inverter to dump the energy back into the power lines
[03:35:09] <pcw_home> simpler drives must do with a braking resistor
[03:35:26] <pfred1> no one uses filter capacitors to store it?
[03:35:30] <Connor> I think this is more than enough info to send to Pete..
[03:36:47] <pcw_home> The mechanical energy is much larger that practical to store in the filter caps
[03:36:58] <pcw_home> s/that/than/
[03:38:41] <pfred1> must be a big resistor to dump it as heat then
[03:38:47] <pcw_home> (well to large to store with a practical delta V)
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[04:10:10] <r00t4rd3d> blaa, midnight and I wanna go cut stuff
[04:11:39] <WalterN> what kind of power density do I want if I'm going to make a laser sintering machine?
[04:13:13] <WalterN> it would depend on the material type I guess... but were would I find this information for something like plastic or nylon or something
[04:15:21] <r00t4rd3d> you just wanna know how big a laser to get?
[04:15:48] <WalterN> mostly
[04:16:06] <WalterN> but that depends on the focal lense stuff I get too
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[04:17:13] <WalterN> read through this... http://www.parallax-tech.com/faq.htm
[04:17:41] <WalterN> I guess if its powerful enough, a lense would not be needed XD
[04:19:18] <WalterN> at the moment I'm trying to figure out what the cheap plastic stuff is thats commonly used for laser sintering
[04:19:39] <r00t4rd3d> http://www.cnczone.com/forums/forum.php#laser_engraving_cutting_machines
[04:20:14] <r00t4rd3d> the people here that probably know are probably in bed
[04:21:35] <r00t4rd3d> - 1st probably :)
[04:21:49] <WalterN> well
[04:22:08] <WalterN> after fixing up my car so I can get to work and back, I have a bunch of money leftover
[04:22:22] <r00t4rd3d> can i have some ?
[04:22:23] <WalterN> I caught myself looking at new computer stuffs
[04:22:39] <WalterN> "what am I doing? I need to make a CNC machine first"
[04:22:52] <r00t4rd3d> i wouldnt bother with a laser
[04:23:02] <WalterN> why?
[04:23:13] <r00t4rd3d> what do you want to make?
[04:23:20] <r00t4rd3d> whats your purpose for cnc?
[04:23:36] <r00t4rd3d> lets start with that
[04:23:47] <r00t4rd3d> lasers are expensive for one
[04:23:49] <WalterN> well, I want to either make a laser sintering machine, or a light weight CNC mill machine/engraving
[04:23:51] <r00t4rd3d> good ones
[04:24:13] <r00t4rd3d> wth is sintering
[04:24:25] <FinboySlick> Is there any success with home-made laser sintering?
[04:24:45] <WalterN> its sinter with ing added to it :P
[04:25:04] <r00t4rd3d> creating objects with powder?
[04:25:07] <r00t4rd3d> lol
[04:25:32] <r00t4rd3d> wait is that how they made that cresent wrench?
[04:26:00] <FinboySlick> r00t4rd3d: That wasn't sintering, it was plastic.
[04:26:11] <WalterN> FinboySlick: donno... there isnt much about it online.. most of the prototyping machines made seem to be the inferior extruded plastic type method
[04:26:14] <FinboySlick> Laser sintering is typically for metals.
[04:26:18] <r00t4rd3d> oh i remember when they took it out is was all powdery
[04:26:51] <WalterN> extruded plastic gets terrible resolution
[04:26:54] <FinboySlick> r00t4rd3d: Yeah. That's pretty much filling up an inkjet with glue and printing your layers on plastic powder.
[04:27:16] <FinboySlick> WalterN: If you know what you're doing, they can still be pretty good.
[04:27:27] <WalterN> I dont like pretty good :P
[04:27:47] <FinboySlick> You're not going to get anywhere near pretty good on home made metal sintering.
[04:28:05] <WalterN> I'm not talking about metal though
[04:28:38] <WalterN> though, the only difference would be in the laser I think
[04:28:48] <WalterN> everything else should stay the same
[04:29:14] <FinboySlick> I think you'd be better off looking into stl.
[04:29:19] <r00t4rd3d> doesnt seem like many people are DIY laser sintering
[04:30:28] <WalterN> I already considered it mostly...
[04:30:45] <WalterN> what is the smallest extrusion size?
[04:30:53] <WalterN> 1mm or something?
[04:31:12] <FinboySlick> For extrusion, I've seen 0.25mm.
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[04:31:29] <WalterN> where are those?
[04:31:46] <FinboySlick> you make the extruder yourself.
[04:31:50] <WalterN> thats getting into my tollerance range
[04:31:51] <FinboySlick> With a lot of care.
[04:32:07] <pfred1> the plastic extrusion 3D printing market is so much hype now
[04:33:12] <pfred1> Make put up a post on G+ and people thought an extruder did it turned out it was a media fuser that did the stuff they posted
[04:33:30] <WalterN> what is G+?
[04:33:32] <pfred1> idiots were saying oh a printer that costs $1,000 can make those
[04:33:35] <FinboySlick> pfred1: Maybe it'll be like the internal combustion engine... Clunky, clumsy thing that we've ended up over-refining to something pretty awesome.
[04:33:50] <pfred1> WalterN Google's social network
[04:33:55] <WalterN> oh that
[04:33:56] <WalterN> heh
[04:34:30] <WalterN> FinboySlick: back in the day, it was a lot more amazing compared to the other stuff avaliable (steam power)
[04:34:51] <pfred1> I don't know there are some pretty amazing steam engines
[04:36:17] <WalterN> FinboySlick: can a .25mm extruder thing be bought?
[04:36:48] <FinboySlick> WalterN: I guess. The one I've seen was a brass cap-nut with some careful dremel work on it.
[04:36:59] <pfred1> that filament stuff is pretty expensive too
[04:37:03] <WalterN> dremel? o.0
[04:37:18] <WalterN> sigh
[04:37:26] <FinboySlick> It worked.
[04:37:50] <pfred1> are Dremels being made any better today than they used to be?
[04:37:57] <pfred1> because they used to be real garbage
[04:38:11] <WalterN> I'm going to be using ball screws and stuff... nothing dremel is going to touch what I make... lol
[04:38:12] <pfred1> I think Bosch owns them now though
[04:38:25] <FinboySlick> He just ground the nut into the right shape, put a flat at the end.
[04:38:55] <FinboySlick> Then used a lathe-like 3d printed rig to drill with a 0.25mm bit without breaking it.
[04:39:02] <FinboySlick> It works.
[04:39:06] <WalterN> hmm
[04:39:16] <WalterN> is melting point the thing that I need?
[04:39:20] <WalterN> bah
[04:39:37] <WalterN> there seems to be no information on this
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[04:44:16] <r00t4rd3d> ive never heard anyone talking about sintering here
[04:44:24] <r00t4rd3d> either*
[04:44:55] <FinboySlick> r00t4rd3d: you can make a candy-printer with powdered-sugar sintering ;)
[04:45:34] <r00t4rd3d> ive wanted to put a frosting pump on my cnc machine and do cakes.
[04:46:45] <WalterN> heh
[04:47:06] <WalterN> with laser sintering, do a sugar frame for the cake
[04:47:22] <WalterN> with some frosting, that could look pretty freeking amazing
[04:47:47] <r00t4rd3d> just get nasa to help you build the sintering machine
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[04:48:24] <WalterN> NASA can go screw themselves
[04:48:42] <r00t4rd3d> FUCK YOU, PLUTO'S REAL!
[04:48:47] <WalterN> lol
[04:49:27] <WalterN> that would be funny if SpaceX CEO claimed pluto as his own planet
[04:49:39] <r00t4rd3d> land on it and take a shit
[04:49:44] <r00t4rd3d> this mine!
[04:49:51] <WalterN> haha
[04:50:47] <FinboySlick> Space X is John Carmack, right?
[04:50:52] <FinboySlick> Or is that Armadillo?
[04:51:27] <WalterN> I dont remember... whichever sold paypal to ebay
[04:51:34] <r00t4rd3d> Houston we have an anomaly.
[04:51:52] <FinboySlick> Elon Tesla-motors Musk.
[04:54:32] <r00t4rd3d> I would just start with a laser engraver, build a xyz table
[04:54:43] <FinboySlick> I can't blame him for trying, but I find his sucking up to government because he can't build a proper car kind of disappointing.
[04:54:49] <r00t4rd3d> slap a 250w laser on it
[04:55:09] <WalterN> r00t4rd3d: 250 watts in the beam?
[04:55:14] <WalterN> or input power?
[04:55:41] <r00t4rd3d> ive just read where thats like the minimum laser size to use
[04:56:06] <r00t4rd3d> for engraver/cutter
[04:56:07] <WalterN> 25watt beam sounds about right for engraving
[04:56:41] <WalterN> somewhere I read 200 watt beam for metal laser sintering
[04:56:44] <r00t4rd3d> you will want to cut too
[04:57:19] <WalterN> hmm
[04:57:24] <WalterN> why?
[04:57:38] <r00t4rd3d> then you can make stuff to engrave
[04:57:55] <WalterN> oh, well, engrave, yeah
[04:59:18] <aitek> is there a g code to reload subroutines read only parameters?
[04:59:40] <WalterN> say I get a 75 watt laser, and I only want something like 30 watts... would I have to pulse the laser? or could I just cut back the input power?
[05:00:35] <r00t4rd3d> You are better off waiting till 9-10am eastern time for tech questions
[05:00:45] <aitek> ok thanks
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[05:02:22] <r00t4rd3d> you writing gcode from scratch ?
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[05:04:32] <WalterN> oh, that would also depend on feed rate
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[05:04:47] <WalterN> power density and feed rate
[05:04:52] <WalterN> and material
[05:05:39] <r00t4rd3d> yeah if you move a 1w laser as fast as a 500w one, you would get drastically different results
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[05:09:46] <r00t4rd3d> just get a wood router and make balsa airplanes
[05:10:09] <r00t4rd3d> well you could do that with a laser too i guess
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[05:16:32] <WalterN> everything can be done with a laser
[05:17:01] <WalterN> like blowing up planets
[05:18:08] <WalterN> how is multi-color stuff done?
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[05:28:11] <WalterN> meh
[05:28:21] <WalterN> I think its time to play some computer games or something
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[06:20:05] <r00t4rd3d> Damn, Google Fiber is going to Austin.
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[06:27:32] Cylly is now known as Loetmichel
[06:27:46] <Loetmichel> mornin'
[06:31:28] <Loetmichel> *bah* ... seventh of april and i had to clean my car winows from ice to drive to the bakery... the weather is broken!
[06:35:33] <AITEK2012> hello ?
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[06:46:51] <DJ9DJ> moin
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[06:57:23] <Loetmichel> *gnah* ... i am the biggest idiot running around.. ONE power strip on the floor. and i thrip and spill my coffee in it... RCD switched the whole flat off :-(
[07:01:21] <t12> i wonder if hplc pumps + hosing + valves make for good oilers
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[11:49:54] <grandixximo> Is there a way to refresh subroutine read only parameters?
[11:50:45] <grandixximo> Like parameter 5410 tool diameter to update after a g10 L10
[11:51:07] <grandixximo> It doesn't seem to update right now
[11:51:24] <grandixximo> Is there a special g code to refresh it?
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[11:52:49] <mhaberler> could you file a bug with a script to reproduce, including version?
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[11:55:00] <mhaberler> dont forget a screenshot: http://www.bfst.de/funpix/screenshot.jpeg
[11:55:34] <jthornton> that's a screen shot for sure
[11:56:14] <mhaberler> "needs service" - here are some explanatory comments: http://imgur.com/rDhhgEz
[11:56:23] <Loetmichel> ... looks like fine (bird) buckshot ;-)
[11:56:50] <mhaberler> "Try pressing F8 as it boots up. "
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[12:02:07] <grandixximo-i910> I made a post in the forum on the g code section
[12:02:19] <grandixximo-i910> I'll file a bug ASAP
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[12:03:39] <grandixximo-i910> Sorry something came up afk for 20min
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[12:13:07] <grandixximo-i910> Sorry
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[12:14:09] <grandixximo-i910> http://linuxcnc.org/index.php/english/forum/20-g-code/26374-subroutine-that-change-the-tool-diameter
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[12:18:12] <mhaberler> few developers will look at the forum for bug repors - if you want to haev it fixed, I suggest adding a bugtracker entry. And which version of linuxcnc are you running?
[12:18:14] <andypugh> I think what is happening there is related to the way that G-code is interpreted and queued. The fact that a dummy toolchange gives the effect required is a hint. Toolchange is a "queuebuster" and a whole new path is computed after it.
[12:19:00] <andypugh> I think that there is an implicit assumption that the tool diameter does not change between toolchanges.
[12:19:36] <andypugh> However, have you tried a G43 after your G10?
[12:19:41] <grandixximo> I'm on 2.5
[12:20:24] <grandixximo> I didn't try g43
[12:20:37] <andypugh> In fact, I am susrpised not to see a G43 with the M6
[12:20:52] <jthornton> gotta use G43
[12:21:38] <grandixximo> G43 loads axis comp
[12:21:45] <grandixximo> Axis offset
[12:21:54] <grandixximo> Will it load diameter also?
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[12:24:02] <jthornton> I'd have to read the manual to be sure
[12:24:12] <grandixximo> I'll try with g43
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[12:26:51] <grandix> Adding g43 does not seems to change anything
[12:27:50] <grandix> I'm working on x y and g43 loads tool length on z
[12:28:03] <grandix> So nothing changes
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[12:29:06] <jthornton> yea g43 is tool length offset
[12:29:39] <jthornton> g10 l10 is set tool table
[12:30:54] <andypugh> I thought that G43 loaded the diameter too.
[12:31:12] <andypugh> It has never mattered to me to know :-)
[12:31:22] <grandix> It doesn't
[12:32:13] <grandix> Yeah i know most of you guys don't polish and don't need have a live waste on your tools and don't work a lot with g42
[12:32:38] <jthornton> T1 M6
[12:32:45] <jthornton> (debug, #5410)
[12:32:53] <jthornton> G10 L10 P1 R.25
[12:33:02] <jthornton> (debug, #5410)
[12:33:10] <jthornton> the above works for me
[12:33:38] <grandix> Make the debug a subroutine
[12:34:00] <grandix> I'll try
[12:34:06] <jthornton> subroutine in the same file or a called subroutine?
[12:34:55] <andypugh> jthornton: Was that MDI or Gcode file?
[12:35:01] <jthornton> MDI
[12:35:04] <grandix> g code
[12:36:46] <jthornton> I just ran it in g code and it worked
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[12:37:45] <grandix> Then it must be my version I'll update
[12:38:32] <jthornton> I just ran as a sub and it worked
[12:38:50] <grandix> Not working for me
[12:38:55] <andypugh> I would be really surprised if there has been a change in this between 2.5 and 2.5.2
[12:39:14] <jthornton> http://pastebin.com/gbHpKJNG
[12:39:26] <jthornton> pastebin what your doing grandix
[12:39:27] <grandix> The changes take effect only after i play the second time
[12:41:20] <aitek> i wrote the same code as you did in here i added m2
[12:41:24] <aitek> and run as gcode
[12:41:59] <aitek> the first time i run it get the original diameter twice, and then the changed diameter
[12:43:19] <grandix> Aitek is always me
[12:43:30] <grandix> Only from the pc
[12:43:51] <grandix> :-)
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[12:47:16] <aitek> http://pastebin.com/M4wnh1G0
[12:47:21] <aitek> this is what i'm running
[12:47:39] <aitek> i always get 60.0000
[12:49:49] <jthornton> I get .25 at that was the tool dia before running your code then 30. and 60.
[12:50:20] <jthornton> running again I get 60 30 60
[12:50:27] <aitek> i get 60 60 60
[12:50:38] <aitek> i did have make some changes to the code
[12:50:47] <aitek> i might have screw up something then
[12:51:01] <aitek> i'll reinstall from build bot
[12:51:15] <aitek> are you using 2.5?
[12:51:23] <jthornton> now you tell me your not using stock LinuxCNC
[12:51:24] <jthornton> yes
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[12:53:18] <aitek> i did some very minor changes in the tool change
[12:53:38] <jthornton> I'm guessing not so minor now...
[12:53:58] <aitek> i'm guessing so too, i'll try with stock and let you know
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[12:56:36] <aitek> ok installed from source it's working
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[12:56:42] <aitek> sorry
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[14:21:01] * Tom_itx removes bullet from aitek's foot
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[14:25:34] <skunkworks> ?
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[14:52:32] <Felix29> is there anybody in the chicago area?
[14:56:37] <sadara> yes
[14:56:41] <sadara> Millions of ppl
[14:57:05] <L84Supper> there is a couple
[14:57:44] <Felix29> I am looking for someone who could make me a couple pieces from 1/4" 6061
[14:58:10] <L84Supper> are they small enough to UPS?
[14:58:14] <Felix29> small pieces and compensation can be worked out
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[14:58:56] <Felix29> yeah i'm checking dimensions of the largest piece right now
[14:59:20] <Felix29> 14"x6" is the largest
[14:59:43] <L84Supper> maybe somebody in the midwest would be interested
[14:59:50] <Felix29> yeah i figured
[14:59:58] <Felix29> if there's somebody here - great
[15:00:04] <Felix29> otherwise i'll post it on cnczone
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[16:58:53] <IchGuckLive> hi all B)
[16:58:59] <Felix29> hi
[16:59:26] <IchGuckLive> nice weather here in germany but still cold
[16:59:43] <Felix29> indiana is the same way today
[16:59:55] <Felix29> let's not jinx it, there has been snow in late april before
[17:02:05] <IchGuckLive> here 2
[17:03:10] <IchGuckLive> Felix29: did you look after the sbr modificatrion on your router
[17:04:23] <Felix29> yeah
[17:04:30] <Felix29> i know what i wanna do now
[17:04:41] <Felix29> first of all, i need to replace all the plastic crap
[17:04:42] <IchGuckLive> cheep afortable and good on your router with less mods
[17:05:12] <IchGuckLive> think on SC 2 with harden pins it might better fit your frame
[17:05:45] <IchGuckLive> and the SC gets you a better price
[17:05:57] <Felix29> i found local people around
[17:06:07] <Felix29> i'll see if they can cut some things for me
[17:06:13] <Felix29> so i'll completely redo the frame
[17:06:19] <IchGuckLive> good to go
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[17:06:55] <Felix29> that way, i can also asjust my frame size to the linear mechanism i'll get
[17:07:28] <Felix29> actually, i liked the slides on ebay
[17:08:05] <Felix29> http://www.ebay.com/itm/CNC-Set-12x-300mm-Linearfhrung-Linear-Guide-Rail-Stage-/221205563001
[17:08:16] <Felix29> i think i might get these and build my frame around it
[17:08:26] <Felix29> only problem is they don't ship to the us
[17:09:09] <IchGuckLive> i woudt go direct china
[17:09:16] <IchGuckLive> 10pc for 35USD
[17:09:33] <Felix29> yes, there is a guy here who buys from china
[17:09:41] <Felix29> i'll talk to him and see what he recommends
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[17:09:57] <Felix29> the plan is to take 80/20 for the frame
[17:10:11] <Felix29> and those affordable slides
[17:10:18] <Felix29> that way, it shouldn't be too bad
[17:12:30] <IchGuckLive> if you go may think about long slide trails better then short you miss mashine space but you gain precision and stability
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[17:15:09] <Felix29> for now, i need to figure out how to do the mechanical part
[17:15:21] <Felix29> which means if i can cut some mounting adapters and such
[17:15:35] <Felix29> once i have that figured out, i'll pull the trigger and buy the slides
[17:16:05] <L84Supper> isn't 80/20 near Fort Wayne, IN?
[17:16:13] <Felix29> yeah
[17:16:33] <Felix29> there's also minitec somewhere around i think
[17:16:49] <IchGuckLive> ,initek is here in town 2
[17:16:54] <IchGuckLive> m
[17:17:29] <L84Supper> Faztek
[17:19:28] <L84Supper> there are several t-slot extruders in China, what I haven't found is a supplier that provides finished t-slot services, cutting, drilling, tapping etc
[17:19:50] <Felix29> i was looking around, too
[17:19:57] <Felix29> i guess minitec will do it
[17:20:08] <L84Supper> no loyalty to Bosch? :)
[17:20:13] <Felix29> but i was rather looking for a machine shop that will make parts
[17:20:33] <Felix29> i contacted some, but they were all just larger orders
[17:21:04] <L84Supper> http://www.d2p.com/ShowInfo
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[17:21:09] <IchGuckLive> L84Supper: minitec does this
[17:21:27] <IchGuckLive> you can order there at 0.2mm accuracy
[17:21:32] <L84Supper> IchGuckLive: sure, but I'm trying to find some supplier similar in China
[17:21:39] <IchGuckLive> and they als supply full axis
[17:21:50] <IchGuckLive> agree on that
[17:21:58] <L84Supper> all of them do in the US and the EU
[17:22:05] <IchGuckLive> woudt be good to have this cheep
[17:22:21] <L84Supper> in China it's just sold in bulk from the extruder/mill
[17:22:43] <L84Supper> Felix29: http://www.d2p.com/Exhibiting check this list
[17:22:54] <IchGuckLive> and the precision is offen worse
[17:23:29] <L84Supper> you just have to get on their back about it, they have the same equipment in China s anywhere else
[17:24:19] <ReadError> L84Supper, the guy that i got my router from
[17:24:23] <ReadError> hes got a supplier that does it
[17:24:30] <IchGuckLive> ive seen t-slots as a hell of mounting out of china
[17:25:24] <Felix29> that shaumburg convention is close
[17:25:34] <ReadError> the adults erector set :)
[17:25:43] <Felix29> but isnt that for people who want to build like a couple hundred units?
[17:26:27] <L84Supper> I just need to learn more Chinese
[17:26:51] <Felix29> well, the minitec things are 0.01" repeatability
[17:27:16] <L84Supper> some things just don't translate well, especially when you're translator has never seen or heard of what you're asking about
[17:27:17] <Felix29> even with the plastic in my machine, i'm already better than that
[17:27:26] <L84Supper> your/you're
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[17:33:00] <IchGuckLive> L84Supper: ask ktHK here he is in the center oh HK and ships near everything
[17:33:36] <L84Supper> http://szztly.en.alibaba.com/productlist.html?domain_name=szztly.en.alibaba.com just over the hill from Hong Kong
[17:34:13] <L84Supper> have to find someone farther north
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[17:41:15] <L84Supper> now I find one
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[17:48:43] <L84Supper> is anyone in this channel from China, Japan, Korea, Singapore or Thailand?
[17:56:59] <r00t4rd3d> lol
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[17:58:00] <r00t4rd3d> trying to get a deal on parts?
[17:58:46] <L84Supper> I'm there half the time
[17:59:04] <r00t4rd3d> and the other half?
[17:59:14] <L84Supper> stuck in the US
[17:59:30] <r00t4rd3d> what do you do over there?
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[18:00:05] <L84Supper> 3D printers/additive manufacturing
[18:00:57] <r00t4rd3d> teaching the next generation of counterfitters
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[18:02:13] <r00t4rd3d> can I go once and be your button pusher?
[18:02:49] <L84Supper> if it leaves out the front door it's a brand name item, if it leaves out the back door from the same factory its bootleg
[18:02:54] <L84Supper> is that what you mean?
[18:04:00] <L84Supper> they are drawn to western brands but just recently they have been starting their own labels
[18:04:31] <r00t4rd3d> id like to goto japan and take pictures
[18:05:25] <L84Supper> Japan is fun
[18:05:55] <L84Supper> Australia is covered, and some one used to lurk in here from India
[18:06:29] <L84Supper> they have a really big hacker, cnc, robot making culture in Japan
[18:06:38] -!- fomox [fomox!~chatzilla@20.152.202.84.customer.cdi.no] has joined #linuxcnc
[18:06:48] <r00t4rd3d> so you get paid to go show them how to use a 3d printer?
[18:07:13] <r00t4rd3d> and teach them broken engrish on the side
[18:08:43] <L84Supper> heh, we manufacture them there
[18:09:59] <r00t4rd3d> send me a prototype
[18:10:14] <L84Supper> the US put a few $M into 3D print incubator in Ohio, China put $100M into their own
[18:11:14] <L84Supper> http://namii.org/
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[18:11:55] <r00t4rd3d> looks like a ceo shit that site out.
[18:12:04] <L84Supper> http://www.3ders.org/articles/20130205-china-to-invest-8m-in-3d-printing-innovation-center.html
[18:13:09] <WalterN> anyone awake that knows more about laser sintering rapid prototyping machines?
[18:13:35] <L84Supper> WalterN: what are you looking for?
[18:13:52] <L84Supper> plastic or metal powder? both?
[18:14:01] <WalterN> kinda both... though mostly plastic
[18:14:27] <L84Supper> do you want to make one?
[18:14:28] <WalterN> what kind of power I need and power density when the beam hits the powder
[18:14:39] <WalterN> oh, yeah... kinda
[18:14:43] <L84Supper> oh, all depends on the materials
[18:14:52] <WalterN> right... so.. plastic :P
[18:14:59] <L84Supper> and how fast you want it to build parts
[18:15:08] <WalterN> yeah
[18:15:33] <L84Supper> some are up to 200W, but build parts very rapidly, few liters per hour
[18:15:34] <WalterN> material, feed rate, and the power of the laser(power density)
[18:16:04] <L84Supper> laser spot size
[18:16:09] <WalterN> aye
[18:16:18] <WalterN> and I really dont know what sane values are for all of that
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[18:17:08] <L84Supper> 100um spot size and 100W can do just about anything including metals
[18:17:28] <WalterN> ok
[18:17:42] <L84Supper> some metals require a special atmosphere, like welding
[18:17:47] <WalterN> then its only adjusting feed rate for the different kinds of materials
[18:17:55] <WalterN> oh yeah
[18:18:08] <L84Supper> you modulate the laser along with the speed it travels
[18:18:11] <WalterN> what about heating up the materials before laser sintering?
[18:18:35] <L84Supper> yes, then there is less energy required to reach their melting point
[18:18:45] <sadara_> 100um spot size is difficult to achive
[18:18:47] <L84Supper> say the Tg is 210 deg C
[18:19:03] <L84Supper> you can use a larger spot if you find it difficult
[18:19:46] <WalterN> I found this last night... http://www.parallax-tech.com/faq.htm
[18:19:54] <sadara_> I think for hobby applications, plasma sintering might be easier
[18:20:04] <L84Supper> if you heat the powder to say 180 deg C then it only needs to rise 30 deg C or higher to melt rather than 190 C from room temp
[18:20:27] <L84Supper> depends on your level of skill
[18:20:50] <L84Supper> I don't recommend anything laser for DIY
[18:20:55] <WalterN> sadara_: I'm not really doing this for a hobby though... going to use ballscrews and stuff to make the machine properly
[18:21:03] <sadara_> If your talking plastics sintering, then that should be very easy
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[18:21:42] <WalterN> I plan on spending in excess of $5,000 after everything
[18:21:44] <L84Supper> we have laser spots down to 1um pretty easily
[18:21:46] <WalterN> (heh)
[18:22:01] <WalterN> not sure how much lasers cost though
[18:22:05] <sadara> I would also allow the design to function with UV curing resins
[18:22:05] <L84Supper> two photon initiation is down to 100nm
[18:22:07] <WalterN> or optics
[18:22:36] <sadara> L84Supper: At what wavelength?
[18:23:17] <L84Supper> wavelength for ?
[18:23:21] <sadara> and what laser chemistry?
[18:23:43] <sadara> 100nm is well below the wavelength of most lasers
[18:23:57] <sadara> That is approching x-rays
[18:24:31] <L84Supper> you can look up two photon absorption
[18:24:38] <L84Supper> it's a quantum effect
[18:24:39] <WalterN> maybe microns?
[18:24:55] <L84Supper> it's more about short pulse duration than wavelength
[18:25:08] <L84Supper> no it's nanometers
[18:25:28] <L84Supper> http://www.technologyreview.com/news/511856/micro-3-d-printer-creates-tiny-structures-in-seconds/
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[18:26:56] <L84Supper> WalterN: if you dig around the specs for SLS printers you'll find what you're looking for
[18:27:26] <sadara> That article is about MEMS mirrors
[18:27:48] <L84Supper> Micro 3-D Printer Creates Tiny Structures in Seconds
[18:27:55] <L84Supper> ^^ that one?
[18:30:09] <L84Supper> WalterN: http://www.alibaba.com/product-gs/527840103/CO2_Laser_Galvo_Mirror.html
[18:30:11] <sadara> Is that your comapny?
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[18:30:23] <L84Supper> WalterN: http://www.alibaba.com/product-gs/611542074/10_6um_galvo_mirror_scan_mirror.html
[18:30:36] <L84Supper> sadara: no, we have a faster process
[18:30:46] <sadara> Magic? :)
[18:31:11] <L84Supper> almost seems like it
[18:31:39] <WalterN> ..?
[18:31:55] <L84Supper> http://www.asdn.net/asdn/nanotools/two-photon_polymerization.shtml
[18:32:10] <sadara> Reading about it now
[18:32:15] <L84Supper> WalterN: galvos steer the laser beam to the powder bed
[18:32:29] <sadara> How do you track what phase the laser will be in?
[18:32:37] <L84Supper> it's much faster than a XY scanning stage with linear motors
[18:32:55] <sadara> You could also use a couple of DLPs
[18:33:21] <sadara> or are they only 2 direction... nm
[18:33:46] <WalterN> oh yeah, with the liquid plastic stuff
[18:34:02] <sadara> can you get 2 axis/3axis galvonometers?
[18:34:16] <L84Supper> galvos yeah
[18:34:31] <L84Supper> each mirror is only 1 axis
[18:34:34] <sadara> third axis been linear, rather than rotational for focus
[18:34:50] <sadara> I mean a single mirror 2 or 3 axis
[18:35:08] <L84Supper> piezo
[18:35:14] <sadara> I have a system here that uses 2 galvos, (not laser)
[18:35:30] <WalterN> no idea what you are talking about... lol
[18:35:42] <L84Supper> sadara: what are you steering?
[18:35:55] <sadara> have you seen a VU meter on a audio amplifier, the old school needle ones?
[18:36:21] <sadara> Its for an active image stabliser for a spotting scope
[18:36:26] <L84Supper> seen, you mean worked with for several years :)
[18:36:40] <sadara> WalterN: have you seen a VU meter on a audio amplifier, the old school needle ones?
[18:36:54] <WalterN> what is a VU meter?
[18:37:13] <sadara> the needle or lights that pulse with the music
[18:37:27] <L84Supper> WalterN: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-sG2kG2_osA
[18:38:11] <WalterN> Standard Volume Indicator
[18:38:25] <sadara> a galvo is like the old analog needle gauges, but instead of the needle, you have a mirror
[18:38:29] <L84Supper> https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=endscreen&NR=1&v=FqjqEY8Zupk better video
[18:38:32] <WalterN> so just an analog voltage meter?
[18:38:52] <sadara> when you change the current through it, the mirror changes angle
[18:39:10] <WalterN> oOo
[18:39:34] <L84Supper> Casio makes a laser projector
[18:39:49] <L84Supper> you can use it for SLS plastic
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[18:39:58] <sadara> interisting
[18:40:02] <L84Supper> with its 470nm lasers
[18:40:32] <L84Supper> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0a7BzDsKNs8 this video shows the galvos really well
[18:40:58] <sadara> that is the most over the top control system I've ever seen for a galvo, my system uses a single pcb about 1x1 inch
[18:41:15] <L84Supper> heh
[18:41:55] <WalterN> how would the laser focus on a specific spot when the path the light is taking changes... without a lense to adjust?
[18:42:26] <L84Supper> http://www.edmundoptics.com/lasers/laser-optics/laser-optic-assemblies/f-theta-scanning-lenses/2961
[18:42:57] <L84Supper> if the bean is well collimated then there's nothing to focus
[18:43:12] <L84Supper> same for a beam
[18:43:27] <sadara> and if it's not, you have a third galvo that adjusts focus
[18:43:33] <L84Supper> I ever collimated a bean before ;)
[18:43:49] <sadara> ever ever?
[18:44:04] <sadara> Your typing is as bad as mine...
[18:44:05] <L84Supper> my n key is flakey
[18:44:17] <L84Supper> have to press it hard
[18:44:24] <L84Supper> time for new keyboard again
[18:44:25] <WalterN> nnnnnnuuuuuu
[18:44:35] <WalterN> get a real mechanical keyboard
[18:44:44] <L84Supper> this one lights up in the dark
[18:44:51] <WalterN> so does mine
[18:45:05] <sadara> g15 all the way
[18:45:06] <L84Supper> have a make and model
[18:45:18] <WalterN> razer blackwidow
[18:45:35] <sadara> there is your problem
[18:45:55] <WalterN> the razer blackwidow ultimate is the cheapest backlit mechanical keyboard in production
[18:45:56] <sadara> it doesn't have a LCD screen intergrated into it
[18:45:59] <L84Supper> either they keys wear out or the letters wear away
[18:46:12] <L84Supper> this is a Saitek
[18:46:56] <L84Supper> http://www.razerzone.com/gaming-keyboards-keypads/razer-blackwidow-2013/ does is hold up well?
[18:47:09] <sadara> noooo
[18:47:14] <sadara> really nooo
[18:47:16] <L84Supper> 2-3 years at most is what I get from keyboards
[18:47:20] <WalterN> yeah, it has a nice build
[18:47:33] <WalterN> I've had mine for a couple years now
[18:47:42] <sadara> I took mine back, and went back to using my g15
[18:47:50] <sadara> (not that I like the g15 much
[18:48:05] <WalterN> sadara: why? the keys are cherry MX blue if I recall correctly
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[18:48:36] <sadara> the keys weer "weird".... and would keep double typing
[18:48:43] <DJ9DJ> namd
[18:48:44] <WalterN> hmm
[18:48:49] <WalterN> never had that issue
[18:48:55] <L84Supper> http://www.logitech.com/en-us/product/g19-keyboard-for-gaming?crid=26 for $200 is better give me a massage
[18:49:11] <WalterN> did you install drivers? cause I didnt
[18:49:42] <sadara> no
[18:49:45] <sadara> It's a kb
[18:49:54] <WalterN> (just wondering)
[18:50:02] <sadara> if a kb needed drivers to type, i would take it back and say it was defective
[18:50:33] <sadara> I have a driver (kinda, more like an app) to make my g5 lcd work
[18:50:47] <sadara> s/g5/15
[18:50:54] <WalterN> L84Supper: the blackwidow is not the backlit one... though you could solder in your own LEDs (so I've read) the black widow ultimate has the same PCB only with the LEDs for back light soldered in
[18:51:22] <sadara> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Optimus_Maximus_keyboard <- top of the line
[18:51:39] <WalterN> screw that
[18:51:45] <WalterN> I'd rather have a new computer
[18:51:46] <WalterN> lol
[18:51:56] <sadara> sigh, me too
[18:52:06] <sadara> I want someone to buy one though
[18:52:20] <WalterN> and before a new computer I'd rather make a CNC machine
[18:52:23] <sadara> so they can tell me if it is as awsome as it should be
[18:52:29] <WalterN> which is why I asked about laserness :P
[18:52:40] * sadara is making one as we speak
[18:53:01] <WalterN> shiny :3
[18:53:05] <sadara> well, designing the W-axis spindle
[18:53:17] <WalterN> W?
[18:53:47] <L84Supper> WalterN: I was wondering what you meant by focus the laser? to smaller spot size than what leaves the source?
[18:53:56] <WalterN> L84Supper: yeah
[18:54:12] <WalterN> is that what is needed even?
[18:54:40] <L84Supper> if the beam is well collimated then no
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[18:55:14] <WalterN> I know a guy who is (was anyway) making an 80watt laser... thats really my only souce on how lasers work from a practical standpoint
[18:55:15] <sadara> C axis rotates around Z, W-axis it the linear form of C
[18:55:43] <sadara> There is now way I'm going to try and explain W axis on IRC, we would be here for a very long time
[18:56:12] <WalterN> L84Supper: also, http://www.overclock.net/t/491752/mechanical-keyboard-guide
[18:56:37] <sadara> WalterN: http://www.efunda.com/processes/machining/images/mill/millCNCaxes1.gif
[18:56:48] <WalterN> cherry MX blue is the most common I think
[18:56:52] <L84Supper> http://www.iiviinfrared.com/CO2-Laser-Optics/scanning-laser-system-optics.html
[18:57:37] <L84Supper> for a small field up to 250mm
[18:57:43] <WalterN> sadara: oh ok... I was thinking lathe XD
[18:57:46] <sadara> that machine rotates W aroung B, mine rotates W around Z (C)
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[18:58:57] <L84Supper> I saw that in a James Bond movie
[19:00:05] <WalterN> L84Supper: I'm kinda confused as to what I need now... uh..
[19:00:26] <L84Supper> depends on what you want to do, what size and materials
[19:00:30] <L84Supper> start from there
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[19:00:39] <L84Supper> what bed size?
[19:00:41] <WalterN> actual printing size?
[19:00:44] <WalterN> yeah
[19:00:45] <L84Supper> yeah
[19:00:45] <WalterN> hmm
[19:00:53] <WalterN> good sized
[19:00:57] <WalterN> but not huge
[19:00:59] <WalterN> XD
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[19:01:08] <L84Supper> 200mm XYZ?
[19:01:23] * WalterN does some converting
[19:01:34] <L84Supper> 10" XYZ
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[19:01:50] <L84Supper> 200mm = ~ 8"
[19:01:57] * WalterN grabs tape measure to better visualize
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[19:02:40] <WalterN> maybe 18"?
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[19:03:39] <WalterN> that seems like a good size... is it too big?
[19:04:25] <L84Supper> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s2am3kbL1n4 SLS 3d printer prototype
[19:04:26] <Tecan> (s2am3kbL1n4) "SLS 3d printer prototype" by "xanxys0" is "Tech" - Length: 0:01:59
[19:04:59] <L84Supper> it's slower than using galvos
[19:05:09] <L84Supper> but maybe you already have the parts
[19:05:43] <WalterN> I dont have the parts for anything
[19:06:06] <WalterN> was going to build it from scratch
[19:06:48] <L84Supper> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uu6Lemm_Dts using a bluray laser
[19:06:49] <WalterN> well, with as much off the shelf stuff as possible I guess... things such as linuxCNC
[19:07:36] <L84Supper> we'll be submitting patches for linuxcnc as time goes by
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[19:08:02] <L84Supper> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iEUGbagf5-4
[19:08:31] <L84Supper> a plotter with a bluray laser vs spindle
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[19:09:19] <L84Supper> sadara_afk: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gF4HG6v29UY Casio Laser projector burns some stuff
[19:09:20] <Tecan> (gF4HG6v29UY) "Casio Laser projector burns some stuff" by "pontiacg445" is "Tech" - Length: 0:07:33
[19:09:36] <WalterN> you mentioned a 100 watt laser, now you are linking stuff 100 times less powerful
[19:10:00] <L84Supper> same principals, just different lasers and powder
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[19:10:14] <sadara> 100w is for metals
[19:10:29] <sadara> your talking sls plastic, right?
[19:10:51] <L84Supper> the casio uses 1.6w lasers, you can see it melt plastics
[19:11:02] <WalterN> well, yeah
[19:11:11] <WalterN> metal would be nice too..
[19:11:42] <WalterN> but not really necessary... first time and stuff
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[19:11:56] <sadara> start with plastic
[19:12:00] <L84Supper> but 100w laser in a 1um dia spot vs 100um spot gets expensive
[19:12:09] <sadara> metal is harder than it sounds
[19:12:52] <WalterN> well yeah... just look at the rockwell rating of metal vs plastic
[19:12:54] <WalterN> much harder
[19:13:39] <sadara> metal is harder to sinter
[19:14:18] <L84Supper> oh well, back to work for me, i have lasers to grind
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[19:15:23] <sadara> lanes?
[19:15:30] <sadara> lens's?
[19:16:01] <sadara> however the plural of lens is splelt
[19:16:10] <WalterN> L84Supper: so what kind of laser do I want for plastic... 10 watts or something?
[19:16:31] <sadara> WalterN: pick you materials first
[19:16:38] <WalterN> plastic?
[19:16:49] <sadara> what type of lastic?
[19:16:51] <WalterN> what kind of plastic... donno..
[19:17:08] <WalterN> whats the cheapest most common stuff?
[19:17:31] <sadara> What country are you in?
[19:17:35] <WalterN> USA
[19:18:08] <sadara> brb phone
[19:19:37] <sadara> read this -> http://code.google.com/p/lemoncurry/wiki/main
[19:20:10] <L84Supper> thats for dlp photopolymer
[19:20:27] <WalterN> sadara: I've read about the DLP process before
[19:20:43] <sadara> and your sure you want to go sls?
[19:20:59] <sadara> the UV method is much easier (you don't need a DLP
[19:21:36] <L84Supper> it all depends on that parts he needs to make
[19:21:58] <WalterN> I dont "need" to make anything :P
[19:21:59] <sadara> the UV method is cheaper too, he needs to start somewhere (materials cost more though)
[19:22:13] <sadara> "He" needs to pick a direction
[19:22:20] <sadara> :P
[19:22:35] <L84Supper> play with a bluray laser first
[19:22:40] <sadara> L84Supper: you grind lenes?
[19:22:45] <L84Supper> cheap galvos are <$200
[19:23:03] <L84Supper> blueray laser is what $20
[19:23:06] <sadara> or buy a 250 - 500mw laser on ebay
[19:23:10] <WalterN> hmm
[19:23:23] <sadara> he needs to know what wavelength he needs
[19:23:47] <sadara> (I , personally, would try and match the laser to the work I was doing
[19:23:54] <WalterN> can the DLP method use a normal LCD screen? where the screen is pressed up against the surface of the builting layer?
[19:23:59] <L84Supper> http://hightechdealz.com/product_info.php?products_id=33
[19:24:18] <L84Supper> for LCD you need a monchrome panel
[19:24:48] <sadara> L84Supper: do you grind lenes?
[19:25:13] <L84Supper> then for bottom up projection through a vat there are issues with unsticking the polymer
[19:25:14] <sadara> L84Supper: I have a cpl of mirrors I need made
[19:25:55] <L84Supper> sadara: not sure who i could recommend
[19:26:21] <L84Supper> I'm either working, sleeping or spending a few minutes here
[19:26:46] <sadara> the prices I got here in australia we, to put it bluntly, fucking riduculous
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[19:27:43] <WalterN> well fudge
[19:28:48] <WalterN> L84Supper: what is the most common plastic powder used for SLS?
[19:29:00] <L84Supper> sadara: can't find them off the shelf?
[19:29:13] <L84Supper> ABS
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[19:29:37] <WalterN> alright... ABS.. what kind of laser do I want for that?
[19:29:48] <sadara> L84Supper: no one seems to release catalogs over here any more, they are all ground to order, and therefor are all "custom"
[19:30:45] <sadara> L84Supper: in the states, what would I be looking at for a f2 100mm hyperboloid ? ( a very rough guess would be fine)
[19:30:48] <L84Supper> http://www.diytrade.com/china/pd/10541998/GPolymers_SLS_selective_laser_sintering_PA12_Powders.html
[19:31:39] <WalterN> that is nylon?
[19:32:20] <JT-Shop> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nylon
[19:32:27] <L84Supper> http://www.rpsupport.co.uk/laser_sintering_materials.php
[19:32:27] <WalterN> 100kg minimum order... hah.. how much would that cost?
[19:32:43] <L84Supper> few $ /kg
[19:33:25] <L84Supper> WalterN: lots of suppliers
[19:33:48] <L84Supper> you just need to find one that will sell you a few lbs for testing
[19:33:56] <WalterN> yeah
[19:34:09] <WalterN> herm
[19:34:23] <L84Supper> http://www.topglobalmarket.com/rubber/pa12-powder-resin-for-selective-laser-sintering-sls-polyamide-powder-for-additive-manufacturing-and-rapid-prototyping-rp-p138168.html 10KG
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[19:39:38] <WalterN> L84Supper: what kind of material should I start with?
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[19:41:47] <L84Supper> you could grind your own powder as well
[19:42:09] <L84Supper> it just won't be as consistent as something made for sls
[19:44:10] <WalterN> so no material suggestions?
[19:44:48] <L84Supper> pa12 is cheap and low temp
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[19:45:07] * WalterN looks it up
[19:45:42] <L84Supper> but some powder coating
[19:46:35] <L84Supper> http://www.harborfreight.com/16-oz-powder-coat-paint-white-93307.html
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[19:46:44] <L84Supper> $5/lb
[19:47:00] <WalterN> what?
[19:47:10] <FinboySlick> L84Supper: I'm compiling the double-hasher for artix-7 now... I think it's too big.
[19:47:13] <L84Supper> powder coat
[19:47:39] <WalterN> what about powder coat... use that instead of pa12?
[19:48:13] <L84Supper> WalterN: yeah, it's cheap and easy to melt
[19:48:22] <WalterN> hmm
[19:48:38] <WalterN> alright
[19:48:42] <WalterN> I guess
[19:48:45] <WalterN> ohhhhhh
[19:48:48] <WalterN> hey
[19:48:58] <WalterN> I could make rocket engine stuff too
[19:49:04] <L84Supper> there are thermoplastics and thermosets, start with the thermoplastics
[19:49:48] <WalterN> what kinds of materials are each?
[19:49:56] <L84Supper> but $5/lb at harbor Freight is tough to beat for small volumes
[19:50:09] <L84Supper> epoxy is a thermoset
[19:50:15] <WalterN> ah
[19:50:20] <WalterN> ok
[19:50:43] <WalterN> UHMW and acrylic would be a thermoplastic?
[19:50:52] <L84Supper> nylon or polyester is thermoplastic
[19:51:46] <L84Supper> UHMW is just ultra high molecular weight, it can be a set or plastic
[19:52:06] <L84Supper> you can also use a thermoset it's just that you can't remelt them
[19:52:20] <sadara> I'm concidering doing this now as well
[19:52:30] <WalterN> sadara: lol
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[19:52:59] <L84Supper> check ebay
[19:53:34] <WalterN> check ebay for what?
[19:53:42] <L84Supper> power coat
[19:53:50] <WalterN> oh heh
[19:53:59] <L84Supper> powder coat even
[19:53:59] * WalterN flails
[19:54:28] <WalterN> L84Supper: is an 18" box decent sized for something like this?
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[19:54:39] <L84Supper> WalterN: sure
[19:54:43] <WalterN> I'm not even sure what most commercial sized ones are
[19:54:59] <L84Supper> FinboySlick: yeah, the numbers just don't seem to be adding up
[19:55:11] <WalterN> the only one I remotely looked at was a metal based one that cost $750,000 to make
[19:55:19] <WalterN> erm
[19:55:20] <WalterN> to buy
[19:55:48] <FinboySlick> L84Supper: You played with it too? Or did you just mean performance/price numbers?
[19:56:04] <L84Supper> FinboySlick: performance/price numbers
[19:57:04] <FinboySlick> L84Supper: They actually might. Artix apparently hits 600+Mhz.
[19:57:07] <L84Supper> WalterN: http://www.additive3d.com/com3_lks.htm Selective Laser Sintering and related powder-based technologies
[19:57:19] <L84Supper> FinboySlick: than that might work
[19:57:25] <L84Supper> if it fits
[19:58:20] <FinboySlick> L84Supper: I'm struggling to learn enough for that part. Might help if there are built-in functions that the spartan doesn't have.
[19:58:37] <FinboySlick> Like extra adders or multipliers.
[19:59:08] <L84Supper> sadara: FFF and FDM are now GGG or G3 (glorified glue gun)
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[20:00:28] <sadara> reprap != good
[20:01:14] <WalterN> yeah
[20:01:20] <WalterN> I looked at that last night
[20:01:26] <WalterN> no ballscrews
[20:01:31] <WalterN> automatic fail
[20:01:53] <sadara> WalterN: not true, there are better alternitives to ballscrews
[20:02:16] <sadara> the reprap is a fail because it is an extruder
[20:02:18] <andypugh> linear motors, for example?
[20:02:22] <L84Supper> it was nice 20 years ago, but there is so much new tech that makes much nicer parts and much faster
[20:02:38] <sadara> linear motors are one
[20:03:18] <sadara> depends on the application, I wuld be fine with a belt drive for a reprap or extruder
[20:03:22] <L84Supper> now GGG isn't bad for everything, some materials are extruded well and it makes sense in some cases along with other tech
[20:04:01] <sadara> I wouldn't use a timing belt though, I would use normal belts and a glass encoder
[20:04:16] <WalterN> L84Supper: so... I'm confused... with one of these lenses... http://www.iiviinfrared.com/CO2-Laser-Optics/scanning-laser-system-optics.html do I not need to change the spot focust, cause it does that automatically based on where the light comes in at what angle?
[20:04:34] <sadara> http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/940nm-3W-Fiber-Coupled-Laser-Semiconductor-Diode-Fiber-CoupledL-aser-w-h-PSU-/251081459043?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3a759f0563
[20:04:50] <sadara> ^^ may be a better option
[20:04:57] <sadara> esp if you are using steppers
[20:05:25] <L84Supper> WalterN: I have to go but sadara has the info you need
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[20:06:07] <L84Supper> sadara: BTW are you up really early or late?
[20:06:28] <sadara> both, its four am,
[20:06:44] <L84Supper> when is your time change?
[20:06:47] <WalterN> so you havent beed to bed then
[20:06:53] <sadara> I will need sleep soon
[20:07:11] <WalterN> sadara: not till I get all necessary information
[20:07:15] * WalterN shakes fist
[20:07:19] <L84Supper> sadara: are you near Valen in Sydney?
[20:07:54] <sadara> I'm about 5000km to his west
[20:08:16] <L84Supper> near perth?
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[20:08:53] <WalterN> waaaaait a sec
[20:08:55] <sadara> yeh, (sorry for the sarcasm, ppl seem to think australia is a tiny country with 1 or 2 small country towns)
[20:09:09] <DJ9DJ> gn8
[20:09:13] <WalterN> sadara: that ebay linky... the laser is attached to fiber optics?
[20:09:19] <sadara> yes
[20:09:23] <WalterN> so...
[20:09:28] <WalterN> thats pretty freeking awesome
[20:09:32] <andypugh> sumpfralle: Ar eyou involved with PyCAM> ]
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[20:10:09] <sumpfralle> yes
[20:10:24] <L84Supper> sadara: there was a nanoparticle supplier near Perth
[20:10:53] <sadara> wtf, really?
[20:11:01] <sadara> nano copper?
[20:11:08] <andypugh> sumpfralle: I have been using it, and it seems to work: http://youtu.be/ZSLB-ue4CTI
[20:11:10] <Tecan> (ZSLB-ue4CTI) "Foundry Pattern Machining on my Mini-Mill" by "andy pugh" is "Tech" - Length: 0:03:34
[20:11:48] <L84Supper> sadara: TiO2 and Zn
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[20:12:02] <andypugh> But the contoring algorithm is pretty slow, like an order of magnitude slower than the actual machining.
[20:12:28] <sumpfralle> yes - that is a pity
[20:12:50] <sadara> L84Supper: any idea on the name?
[20:13:03] <L84Supper> sadara: trying to recall
[20:13:14] <WalterN> sadara: you think three watts is enough?
[20:13:29] <sadara> nope
[20:14:04] <WalterN> you were just using that as an example?
[20:14:10] <sadara> but it is going to do 97% of what you will want to do with it (in plastic)
[20:14:29] <WalterN> then why would you say its not enough?
[20:14:29] <L84Supper> sadara: http://www.antaria.com/index.php?page=products
[20:14:32] <sadara> it's also MWIR
[20:14:32] <WalterN> lol
[20:14:43] <WalterN> what is MWIR?
[20:14:51] <sadara> medium wave ir
[20:15:03] <WalterN> oh
[20:15:05] <L84Supper> University of Western Australia
[20:15:08] <sadara> no UV, so it is a heat laser
[20:15:32] <WalterN> is that desirable?
[20:15:57] <sadara> I go to the lunchbar right next to that plase all the time, never new it was there
[20:16:07] <sadara> WalterN: it depands
[20:16:38] <sadara> It's not going to initiate UV cure compounds
[20:16:51] <WalterN> hmm
[20:17:20] <sadara> but it might cut very, very thin materials, and melt alsmost any plastic I can think of
[20:17:27] <L84Supper> sumpfralle: are the algorithms just slow or is it Python?
[20:18:43] <sumpfralle> probably the algorithms
[20:18:43] <sumpfralle> but I could not tell without rewriting them in a different language :)
[20:19:40] <L84Supper> sumpfralle: we looked into adding 5-axis support to pycam
[20:20:03] <sadara> what about 9 axis :) ?
[20:20:04] <L84Supper> but our customer let us off the hook by using NX CAM
[20:20:30] <L84Supper> but we'd like to see about helping speed things up and adding 5-axis support
[20:21:39] <WalterN> sadara: so should I consider the mirror method for directing the beam around? or should I just do stepper/servo motors (or something related) to direct the beam straight down on to the surface?
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[20:21:46] <L84Supper> additive manufacturing needs its own version of CAM
[20:22:18] <sadara> WalterN: again, it depends on what you are trying to achive
[20:22:26] <WalterN> stuff
[20:22:32] <sadara> you can use mirrors on the axis as well
[20:22:37] <WalterN> yeah
[20:22:46] <WalterN> but you know what I mean
[20:23:50] <sadara> do you want to be able to do SLS, GGG (I like that acronym), cutting, polishing spraying welding and girls makeup with your machine? If so, you need to move the axis
[20:24:26] <sadara> if you want to do SLS, use the tilting mirror
[20:24:38] <L84Supper> acrylic nail powder will also sinter
[20:24:39] <WalterN> it might be nice to be able to engrave too...
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[20:25:05] <WalterN> but thats pretty much the only thing I want to do
[20:25:34] <sadara> laser engraving, or mechanical?
[20:25:46] <WalterN> laser engraving
[20:26:00] <WalterN> I'd build a different machine otherwise
[20:26:02] <sadara> what material?
[20:26:21] <WalterN> donno... stainless, aluminum?
[20:26:59] <WalterN> say, 304/316, 6061...
[20:27:00] <sadara> ok you may want a 4 - 10W fibre coupled lasered
[20:28:17] <WalterN> and move the beam around so that it comes straight down?
[20:28:39] <sadara> no, fibre coupled, treat it like a 5 axis
[20:28:45] <WalterN> ..?
[20:29:15] <sadara> think of fibre coupled lasers like a water hose
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[20:29:36] <sadara> you can point them in any direction, just don't kink the hose
[20:30:04] <WalterN> yeah, sure... but how is that 5 axes?
[20:30:28] <WalterN> thats only 2-3 axes I think?
[20:30:56] <WalterN> tilt one way, tilt the other, and maybe up and down
[20:30:57] <sadara> you can point it up or to the side
[20:31:37] <sadara> move right , move forward, move up, rotate left, rotate up
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[20:32:04] <sadara> if you want to engrave something that is flat
[20:32:07] <WalterN> oh, so move it in X and Y, in addition to tilt?
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[20:33:18] <sadara> move in x y and z, rotate in c and a
[20:33:52] <WalterN> yeah
[20:34:05] <WalterN> though the Z movement would be in the bed its self?
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[20:34:17] <WalterN> (because laser sintering)
[20:34:35] <sadara> I should point out that most fibre coupled lasers have a focus around 20mm in frount of the objective lens
[20:34:44] <sumpfralle2> L84Supper: 5-axis geometry is a sphere of wisdom that is completely new for me. But if you provide the algorithms then it will surely work out with pycam
[20:35:11] <sadara> I, personally, would move the laser itself, in addition to the bed
[20:35:12] <L84Supper> sumpfralle2: we will have 2 full time devs this summer to help with it
[20:35:32] <WalterN> sadara: so that would be 6 axes...
[20:35:55] <WalterN> if moving the laser up and down in addition to the bed moving up and down
[20:36:01] <L84Supper> sumpfralle2: not every customer can afford $35K for a full NX CAM or even $22K for Mastercam 5-axis
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[20:36:30] <sumpfralle2> L84Supper: of course - I agree
[20:36:44] <L84Supper> sumpfralle2: we'll join the ml
[20:36:45] <sumpfralle2> L84Supper: who is "we"?
[20:36:50] <sumpfralle2> fine!
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[20:37:13] <sumpfralle2> (just curious)
[20:37:30] <sadara> I would do xyz, plus the bed (4 so far) and a addon forth and 5th (google image search for "4th axis")
[20:38:15] <WalterN> is there a lense I could get to extend the focus length?
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[20:38:44] <sadara> you would swap out the SLS bed, to add the 4+5 axis
[20:39:17] <WalterN> 1" is not much, esp if there is going to be stuff going on between the laser and the top of the part being made
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[20:40:44] <WalterN> wait, why would I want tilt if it is already moving around in X and Y?
[20:41:02] <sadara> how do you engrave a pen?
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[20:41:29] <WalterN> in a C-axes lathe? :-x
[20:41:51] <WalterN> I see what you are getting at though
[20:42:04] <WalterN> at least now I do :P
[20:43:13] <sadara> this is 4 axis -> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dFLqQ-yn3gk&playnext=1&list=PLED77849FE6633EF0&feature=results_main
[20:43:14] <Tecan> (dFLqQ-yn3gk) "Homemade CNC Router ;-)" by "Croftmania" is "Tech" - Length: 0:01:00
[20:45:07] <sadara> 5 axis ->http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FKEvzcXqvOM
[20:45:08] <Tecan> (FKEvzcXqvOM) "5 Axis CNC - Laser" by "Dreschhh" is "Tech" - Length: 0:09:04
[20:45:18] <findux> hi there . how can i compile new chanced genhexkins.c file ? I always used linuxcnc from live cd. but not used to install.
[20:46:03] <WalterN> sadara: I could add the tilt stuff later too.. hmm
[20:46:15] <sadara> yes
[20:46:29] <WalterN> anyway
[20:46:30] <WalterN> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Laser-Diode-8W-8-Watt-8000mW-915nm-Fiber-Coupled-100um-Multimode-Pump-NEW-/110959792691?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item19d5b81233
[20:46:34] <WalterN> is that good?
[20:46:39] <WalterN> wait
[20:46:42] <WalterN> hmm
[20:47:48] <WalterN> no lense?
[20:48:10] <WalterN> or power supply
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[20:49:06] <sadara> no output lens, tht makes it a bit difficult to work with, as the low NA means the beam will spread very fast
[20:49:54] <WalterN> what would a good lense be for that?
[20:51:18] <noob123> Have anyone used those cheaps CNC from ebay?? CNC 3020 or CNC 3040 or any other one from ebay ??
[20:54:22] <sadara> WalterNate: you need to figure out what you want to do, and do a little more research
[20:55:34] <WalterN> I want to burn stuff with lasers :P
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[21:07:42] <Nick001-Shop> Is there a sample ini & hal file for a closed loop stepper setup?
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[21:44:57] <mrsun> need to make my own "ball end" cutter to cut ball holes :/ .. how the heck :P
[21:45:41] <pcw_home> basically a closed loop stepper system is set up exactly like a standard servo system
[21:45:43] <pcw_home> except the output of the PID component sets the stepgen rate instead of a analog, pwm etc output
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[22:00:06] <Nick001-Shop> I generated this with stepgen and put index into the ini - how do I get a pid list in there besides cut & paste?
[22:02:26] <Nick001-Shop> the stepper moves to find home(index) but doesn't see index - what am I missing? I can see index in hal config OK
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[22:15:25] <pcw_home> The index logic is independent of whether a servo drive or stepgen in velocity mode is used
[22:16:15] <pcw_home> so if index does not work its unrelated to the step motor vs servo motor aspect
[22:17:42] <pcw_home> you do have to set the stepgen into velocity mode
[22:17:47] <cradek> if you mean you started with a stepconf-generated config, that's running stepgen in position mode, and index homing will certainly not work
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[22:18:16] <AR_> anyone on here use an external motion controlelr instead of direct parallel port connection?
[22:19:19] <pcw_home> start with a servo configuration is what I tried to suggest at first
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[22:23:18] <pcw_home> AR_: Usually LinuxCNC _is_ the motion controller so gets along better
[22:23:20] <pcw_home> with simpler external devices.
[22:24:01] <AR_> yeah i just wondered if there were any external motion controllers that worked with linuxcnc
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[22:25:19] <Nick001-Shop> how do you set the stepgen into velocity mode?
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[22:26:47] <Nick001-Shop> not finding this info in the forum
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[22:33:13] <Nick001-Shop> also, is this something to use 5i20 or just the parport?
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[22:37:03] <pcw_home> man stepgen
[22:37:24] <pcw_home> (or man hostmot2)
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[22:42:05] <AR_> tired of fixing my chinese tb6560 3 axis driver
[22:42:12] <AR_> what's a cheap better alternative
[22:42:15] <AR_> ?
[22:42:32] <AR_> Leadshine M542 or Gecko G251x
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[22:45:31] <Tom_itx> those seem to come highly recomended
[22:45:52] <andypugh> findux: Are you still there? Did you get your answer?
[22:46:21] <findux> yes please
[22:46:44] <andypugh> You ought to be able to compile genhexkins with comp.
[22:47:36] <andypugh> Look at section 12 here: http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/html/hal/comp.html
[22:48:10] <andypugh> You want to compile and install C-code, to it would just be sudo comp --install genhexkins.c
[22:49:16] <andypugh> comp isn't really intended for kins files, but by a happy accident hal modules and kins modules live in the same place, and are the same things (kernel objects)
[22:49:24] <findux> I read ' *SOLVED* Recompiling genhexkins ' in the forum. but I do not understand exactly what I need
[22:49:48] <andypugh> What happens if you try sudo comp --install genhexkins.c
[22:52:27] <findux> I receiver something like this massage'WARNING: "pmRpyMatConvert" [/tmp/tmpvWVdx8/genhexkins.ko] undefined!'
[22:53:18] <findux> WARNING: "pmRpyMatConvert" [/tmp/tmpvWVdx8/genhexkins.ko] undefined! WARNING: "hal_init" [/tmp/tmpvWVdx8/genhexkins.ko] undefined! WARNING: "pmCartCartCross" [/tmp/tmpvWVdx8/genhexkins.ko] undefined! WARNING: "hal_exit" [/tmp/tmpvWVdx8/genhexkins.ko] undefined! WARNING: "pmCartUnit" [/tmp/tmpvWVdx8/genhexkins.ko] undefined! WARNING: "pmMatCartMult" [/tmp/tmpvWVdx8/genhexkins.ko] undefined! WARNING: "pmCartCartAdd" [/tmp/tmpvWVdx8/genh
[22:53:55] <andypugh> OK, that probably means that you need the source headers. Do you have a git clone of the source?
[22:54:10] <t12> mm
[22:54:11] <t12> linking?
[22:54:29] <t12> oh thats just weird output format
[22:54:56] <andypugh> findux: Those are all warnings, it _might_ still work.
[22:56:11] <findux> I received an error when I run the software
[22:56:19] <findux> errors
[22:56:30] <andypugh> OK, so you do need the headers.
[22:56:39] <L84Supper> AR_: what keeps on breaking?
[22:56:46] <andypugh> How dd you get genhexkins.c ?
[22:56:53] <AR_> nothing really keeps breaking
[22:56:56] <AR_> they are just shitty
[22:57:18] <L84Supper> yeah, I have a few of the single axis, boy are they noisy
[22:57:26] <findux> I cahanged only genhexkins.h some numerical value
[22:57:36] <AR_> the only things that have broke so far is one of the TB6560 chips and a 74HC chip
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[22:57:40] <AR_> both my fault
[22:57:53] <AR_> but i think there are some other things going on it
[22:58:08] <L84Supper> yeah 0 protection against just about anything
[22:58:15] <AR_> ya
[22:58:16] <andypugh> findux: Do you only have genhexkins, or do you have the full LinuxCNC source?
[22:58:24] <Felix29> what do you think about the tb6560? is it worth changing?
[22:58:30] <AR_> i'm thinking of buying a couple Leadshines
[22:58:37] <AR_> $44 from china
[22:59:04] <AR_> when i bought the 3 axis tb6560 board it was over $75! lol
[23:01:02] <findux> first I have tried run-in-place method. didn' work, after I heve tried this line 'sudo comp --install genhexkins.c ' in source directory.
[23:01:22] <findux> didn't work
[23:03:09] <L84Supper> I've been thinking about a 3-axis board with a $5 arm cortex a9 soc on a board for ~$75
[23:03:29] <andypugh> You probably need to be in the actual src/ directory. So try sudo comp --install emc/kinematics/genhexkins.c
[23:03:38] <L84Supper> with enough ram for linuxcnc and a sd card
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[23:04:46] <Nick001-Shop> pcw_home - can I use hm2-stepper with 5i20 and how do I set it to velocity mode and do I need to use a stepper driver like 251x?
[23:05:10] <findux> yes I downloaded src file from git
[23:05:42] <andypugh> Which directory were you in when you issed the "comp" command?
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[23:08:01] <L84Supper> wow $3 3W 410nm led's from China, waiting for my eyes to recover....... yellow spots
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[23:10:02] <findux> extracted *.tar.gz. file the following directory '/home/myownuser/myowndirectory' than I tired
[23:11:09] <andypugh> Is your modified genhexkins in src/emc/kinematics ?
[23:11:53] <findux> no
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[23:13:02] <andypugh> It might need to be, I am not sure
[23:13:50] <findux> I did exactly this .' cd /home/myownuser/myowndirectory/build/src/emc/kinematics/' than this line 'sudo comp --install genhexkins.c'
[23:15:26] <andypugh> Hmm.
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[23:18:57] <andypugh> findux: I am creating a virtual machine to experiment on.
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[23:20:10] <findux> I received ebove errors after I think existing genhexkins.ko changed and didn't work
[23:22:18] <WalterN> would this be a good laser for laser sintering rapid prototyping machine? http://www.ebay.com/itm/30-Watt-Coherent-Laser-w-Heat-Sink-Water-Cooling-Module-FAP800-L-30W-/130843032047?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1e76da39ef
[23:23:50] <L84Supper> looks good, i have to check the wavelength
[23:24:05] <WalterN> http://www.coherent.com/downloads/FAP800series_DSFinal.pdf is the data sheet I think
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[23:24:46] <L84Supper> short IR ~800nm
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[23:25:29] <WalterN> I'm wondering what that other thing is
[23:25:36] <L84Supper> 805-811nm
[23:26:27] <WalterN> the LST400IRW2
[23:26:41] <WalterN> NM laser products
[23:27:11] <L84Supper> http://www.nmlaser.com/
[23:27:24] <WalterN> yeah, looking at that
[23:27:44] <WalterN> shutter?
[23:27:50] <L84Supper> yeah
[23:28:05] <WalterN> what does that do?
[23:28:32] <WalterN> turns a continious laser into pulsed? XD
[23:29:03] <L84Supper> http://www.nmlaser.com/pdfs/LST400Specs.pdf
[23:29:13] <L84Supper> safety interlock
[23:29:45] <L84Supper> there an aperture on the other side of that unit
[23:29:57] <L84Supper> that is where the laser would exit
[23:30:10] <WalterN> oh yeah
[23:30:19] <WalterN> a little rubber thing it seems
[23:30:33] <L84Supper> from a distance
[23:30:53] <WalterN> think there is a lense on it?
[23:31:02] <WalterN> a focusing lense
[23:31:13] <L84Supper> don't know
[23:31:20] <L84Supper> it was part of something
[23:32:29] <WalterN> if it does not... what kind of lense would I want?
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[23:34:44] <L84Supper> coherent still makes that unit
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[23:34:52] <L84Supper> check the data sheets and call them
[23:35:02] <WalterN> hmm
[23:35:26] <WalterN> 807nm wavelength... is that still in the visable spectrum?
[23:35:43] <WalterN> its pretty close anyway
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[23:37:04] <L84Supper> short IR
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[23:38:55] <WalterN> is that a good price?
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[23:40:41] <andypugh> fundux: You might have to recompile all of Linuxcnc to get the new genhexkins to work.
[23:41:15] <andypugh> findux: You might have to recompile all of Linuxcnc to get the new genhexkins to work.
[23:41:22] <findux> ok .
[23:41:30] <L84Supper> WalterN: it's probably a few thousand $$ new
[23:41:39] <WalterN> o.0
[23:41:45] <L84Supper> it's a bargain
[23:42:15] <WalterN> think I should get it, and figure out what I need when it arrives?
[23:42:46] <findux> can you give me link how can I recompile all of linuxcnc
[23:42:56] <andypugh> findux: "cd src" followed by "./autogen.sh" then "./configure --prefix=/usr" then "make" then "sudo make setuid"
[23:44:02] <findux> ok I 'm trying
[23:44:38] <andypugh> More details here: http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?Installing_LinuxCNC#Resolving_outstanding_build_dependencies
[23:45:02] <L84Supper> WalterN: just don't stare at it :)
[23:45:19] <WalterN> L84Supper: heh... so I take that as a yes?
[23:47:10] <andypugh> For that price, I am tempted, and I don't even need a laser.
[23:47:18] <WalterN> yeah
[23:47:35] <L84Supper> <-- back at work, sorry
[23:48:01] <andypugh> WalterN: You should be able to re-eBay it at a profit anyway..
[23:48:15] <WalterN> well
[23:48:26] <WalterN> if I get it and the laser is working... I'm so keeping it
[23:48:45] <WalterN> because at the very least I can say I have a BSL (big scary laser)
[23:48:49] <L84Supper> some of the sellers end up with surplus and don't really know what it is or is worth
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[23:49:12] <L84Supper> you can always strap it on a shark for photo ops
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[23:50:07] <WalterN> it could be that they have to pull the laser out every 5 years or whatever and get it replaced
[23:51:13] <andypugh> WalterN: If you do get it, then I think there _might_ be a safety clip shorting the laser power inputs.
[23:51:38] <r00t4rd3d> http://imgur.com/a/RaBXi
[23:52:29] <WalterN> r00t4rd3d: so much effort put into cosmetics
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[23:53:08] <WalterN> also, https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTkqL69ZwfUjoYZaGRYRQSW3L-OzQDxZrprEZK2IlrvSr93ggKtRA
[23:54:22] <WalterN> L84Supper: am I reading this data sheet correctly and seeing that there is 25 watts in the laser beam?
[23:55:27] <andypugh> findux: Sorry old chap, but I need to go now. Good luck.
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[23:56:54] <findux> ok thanks .
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[23:57:38] <WalterN> dude
[23:57:49] <WalterN> I'm looking at some of the other stuff this guy has
[23:57:51] <WalterN> http://www.ebay.com/itm/20-NEW-Cornell-Dubilier-Capacitors-46000-uF-50-Volts-VDC-Screw-Top-50v-/130738754289?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1e70a312f1
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[23:58:41] <WalterN> 46,000uf capacitors