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[00:22:25] <ProxDem> argg...leveling the bed when the X axis sags in the middle seems like a waste of time =(
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[00:30:42] <Valen> use a custom kins module?
[00:30:48] <Valen> compensate for it? ;->
[00:36:22] <ProxDem> hum interesting got any good readup on that?
[00:39:43] <Valen> none at all lol
[00:39:44] <Valen> sorry
[00:39:51] <Valen> but i believe it has been done already
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[00:56:16] <r00t4rd3d> ReadError,
http://i.imgur.com/bL8thqy.jpg
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[01:03:26] <ProxDem> Valen: any clue about google terms search other then sag/sagging compensation?
[01:05:01] <Valen> no sorry
[01:07:47] <ProxDem> thanks for the info still =)
[01:08:00] <ProxDem> if anybody else has some info about axis "sagging" compensation please let me know!
[01:09:46] <Valen> this might be a place to start
http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?ProbeKins
[01:11:52] <ProxDem> awesome thanks
[01:12:29] <r00t4rd3d> http://i.imgur.com/6Y4Hcvs.jpg
[01:17:58] <L84Supper> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b7cjo4kTYMw 5-axis LinuxCNC mill
[01:18:04] <PCW_> Seems like you might have to walk sideways upstairs
[01:20:43] <L84Supper> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aF7C8d4d0nc I like the manual vac attachment :)
[01:24:55] <ProxDem> Valen: thanks for all the info...now to decypher all that...and try to use it in a real world scenario
[01:25:27] <Valen> good luck
[01:26:53] <ProxDem> yeah
[01:27:06] <ProxDem> I think I'm gonna need it as I'm unsure of how to set that up lol
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[01:59:34] <r00t4rd3d> do you have a digital probe?
[02:00:11] * jdh avoids r00ts digital probing
[02:02:05] <r00t4rd3d> http://www.ebay.com/itm/CNC-3D-Digitizing-Probe-for-Mach3-Stepper-Motor-routers-Lowest-Cost-Qualityprobe-/330685665791?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4cfe66d1ff
[02:03:07] <r00t4rd3d> or the more expensive model
[02:03:08] <r00t4rd3d> http://www.ebay.com/itm/digitizing-probe-4-cnc-sherline-maxnc-taig-plasma-cutter-mill-router-engraver-/160763530758?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item256e40ce06
[02:08:09] <jdh> I'd like one of those, but I'm too cheap.
[02:08:24] <jdh> and I keep thinking someday, I'll make one.
[02:19:02] <r00t4rd3d> http://www.machsupport.com/docs/SW_Digitising_Probe.pdf
[02:19:23] <r00t4rd3d> make me one too
[02:20:06] <r00t4rd3d> thats messed up Mach offers their users probe plans
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[02:22:13] <jdh> not Mach, just some guy made them available
[02:23:02] <r00t4rd3d> http://www.grunblau.com/brian/downloads/CNC%20Digitizing%20Probe.pdf
[02:23:08] <r00t4rd3d> thats pretty cool, simple
[02:25:30] <r00t4rd3d> i think iam gonna make that
[02:27:56] <r00t4rd3d> http://www.mycncuk.com/forums/diy-project-building/3739-touch-probe-3.html#post27397
[02:28:08] <r00t4rd3d> the second post CAD is a dxf
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[02:53:56] <r00t4rd3d> and ready to cut
[02:58:20] <pcw_home> MDF seems like a poor choice stability wise
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[03:00:24] <coors> hi! has anybody recently bought linear motion parts by any chance?
[03:01:36] <r00t4rd3d> pcw_home, i would never use mdf
[03:01:51] <r00t4rd3d> white walmart cutting board :)
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[03:02:25] <r00t4rd3d> coors, what kinda linear motion parts?
[03:02:47] <r00t4rd3d> or better yet whats really your question
[03:03:54] <coors> i am trying to upgrade a small machine for pcb milling
[03:04:10] <coors> about 8" x 10" with something like 4" z-travel
[03:04:28] <coors> and i am looking for precise, but not too expensive ballscrews and guides
[03:04:48] <coors> can't do too much machining here, but i got a mill and lathe i can use to make adapters and such
[03:05:00] <r00t4rd3d> you in usa?
[03:05:34] <coors> yeah, indiana
[03:05:54] <r00t4rd3d> cheapest place to get balls screws is on ebay from china/hong kong/asia
[03:06:03] <coors> yeah, but are those any good?
[03:06:24] <coors> i haven't bought any, so i was trying to find people who have and can tell me about their experiences
[03:06:29] <r00t4rd3d> im sure you still get what you pay for
[03:06:47] <coors> yeah, so what i want is <1 mil repeatability
[03:07:03] <coors> so not crazy precise but ok for milling pcbs on a small machine
[03:07:21] <coors> just don't wanna go all out and spend thousands unless there's no way around it
[03:07:24] <r00t4rd3d> http://www.cncrouterparts.com/mechanical-cnc-components-c-21.html
[03:07:42] <coors> i've seen those
[03:07:52] <coors> those are acme screws not ballscrews
[03:08:05] <coors> but maybe those would still work
[03:08:08] <coors> i am just not sure
[03:08:23] <r00t4rd3d> lots of people use their parts, myself included
[03:08:53] <coors> cool, what are you usually cutting?
[03:08:58] <r00t4rd3d> wood
[03:09:22] <coors> wood and usually 10" and larger?
[03:09:31] <coors> or do you do a lot of really fine stuff, too?
[03:09:59] <r00t4rd3d> i recently did a 1400 letter poem :/
[03:10:05] <coors> basically, on mine i attached a dial gauge and i can see i get a few thou backlash/slop
[03:10:25] <r00t4rd3d> got a pic of you setup?
[03:10:28] <coors> it's 3-5 thou, but too much for what i am trying to do
[03:10:40] <coors> unfortunately no atm
[03:10:51] <coors> took it to the university to have the machinist check it out
[03:11:07] <coors> http://www.mydiycnc.com/
[03:11:12] <coors> that's the base thing i got
[03:11:37] <coors> added an aluminum gantry and a better spindle, microstepping motor drivers so far
[03:11:55] <coors> so it's ready to kill the mechanical slop now
[03:12:01] <r00t4rd3d> did you get the complete kit?
[03:12:44] <coors> yeah
[03:12:53] <coors> but it turned out to be crap in my opinion
[03:13:08] <r00t4rd3d> i didnt want to tell you it was shit but if you already know
[03:13:19] <coors> well, quite good for $400, but people told me you can do PCBs on that one
[03:13:23] <coors> and i don't think you can
[03:13:44] <coors> so i didnt expect too much, but what i bought it for can't be done
[03:14:21] <r00t4rd3d> thats all you want to do is pcb?
[03:14:48] <r00t4rd3d> a mini mill would be better i think
[03:15:12] <coors> like that grizzly thing or the one from little machineshop?
[03:15:21] <coors> or are you thinking a proxxon clone?
[03:15:46] <coors> i don't need to make big parts
[03:15:53] <r00t4rd3d> http://www.minitechcnc.com/mini_mill_2.htm
[03:15:55] <coors> but for the small ones, i wanna make em right
[03:16:01] <r00t4rd3d> for the picture
[03:16:14] <r00t4rd3d> something like that
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[03:17:14] <coors> yeah that's close to what i should have gotten
[03:17:16] <coors> :>
[03:17:47] <r00t4rd3d> http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_Vge7xEi-f-o/S1yTxjUFOMI/AAAAAAAAAGI/7i5LiTl04MA/s1600/100_3565.JPG
[03:18:29] <r00t4rd3d> you could probably use your router to make the parts for that
[03:19:00] <r00t4rd3d> your machine needs to be rock solid to do good pcb work
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[03:19:51] <coors> yeah that's kinda what i had in mind
[03:20:03] <coors> i wouldn't use plastic, but actually machine the frame from aluminum
[03:20:19] <coors> i could most likely get scrap aluminum for free that i can use
[03:20:27] <coors> those are acme screws or ballscrews?
[03:20:57] <r00t4rd3d> i would cut the plastic on my router to get the mill built then use the mill to redo the plastic into alumin.
[03:21:25] <coors> yeah, i suppose that could work
[03:21:31] <r00t4rd3d> goto walmart and get some .5 white cutting boards
[03:21:38] <coors> not sure my spindle will do it right though
[03:21:46] <coors> oh i got hdpe from grainger here
[03:21:51] <coors> same prize, bigger sheets
[03:21:52] <r00t4rd3d> cool
[03:22:00] <r00t4rd3d> go slow
[03:22:14] <jdh> I made stepper mounts and ball nut mounts for my mill out of delrin on my router. Then made new ones out of aluminum on the mill
[03:22:23] <r00t4rd3d> most people think they have to run their machine as fast as it will go
[03:22:39] <coors> i go 3"/min for pcb stuff
[03:22:48] <coors> but even that doesnt help :>
[03:23:00] <coors> http://www.wolfgangengineering.com/Spindles.php
[03:23:07] <coors> that's the spindle i got
[03:23:16] <coors> 200W cutting power is bs
[03:23:27] <coors> but you might get 50-100W
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[03:23:43] <coors> what exactly is delrin btw?
[03:23:50] <jdh> Acetal
[03:24:05] <coors> oh ok
[03:24:19] <r00t4rd3d> damn that spindle is cool
[03:24:23] <coors> i guess it flexes less that hdpe and is still easy to cut?
[03:24:29] <r00t4rd3d> my controller could run that
[03:24:32] <coors> i got it because of the runout
[03:24:39] <coors> and it seems to run pretty well
[03:24:57] <r00t4rd3d> you really only give it 12v?
[03:24:57] <coors> problem is the rest of the machine is shit, so i can't even tell if it's good :)
[03:25:02] <coors> yeah
[03:25:13] <coors> i am just using PWM to control it
[03:25:25] <coors> low rpm is not good, because you lose way too much power
[03:25:34] <coors> but close to max rpm it's actually quite good
[03:25:44] <r00t4rd3d> its almost like a rc spindle
[03:25:52] <coors> i put a gauge to it and i barely see it move
[03:26:17] <coors> it's basically a dc motor from some rc car that uses a beltdrive for the spindle
[03:26:33] <coors> so the spindle can be supported by bearing on top and bottom to make it run true
[03:27:14] <r00t4rd3d> http://www.hexapodrobot.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=12&f=14
[03:27:18] <r00t4rd3d> 2nd post
[03:27:24] <r00t4rd3d> that thing looks bad ass
[03:27:56] <coors> hehe
[03:27:58] <coors> i saw it
[03:28:09] <coors> and i was like "i can't imagine all the problem it has"
[03:28:23] <coors> but i give the guy a ton of respect for getting it to work at all
[03:28:32] <coors> have you seen those quadcopters?
[03:28:49] <r00t4rd3d> yweah
[03:28:50] <r00t4rd3d> http://www.buildlog.net/blog/2011/09/new-brushless-dc-router-spindle/
[03:28:56] <coors> five years ago, i started building one and my boss made fun of me for that
[03:28:58] <r00t4rd3d> one you could build on yoru machine
[03:29:07] <coors> well, now you can buy kits on amazon and stuff
[03:29:25] <coors> should have stopped working and just sell those on amazon back then
[03:29:31] <coors> i'd probably be better off now
[03:29:36] <coors> and could afford a real cnc :>
[03:30:11] <coors> yeah the bldc ones are interesting
[03:30:21] <coors> i got some motors leftover that i was thinking about using
[03:30:36] <coors> just in case the normal dc motor dies on me
[03:31:10] <coors> those are 12A 10kV ones i think
[03:32:29] <coors> wow theirs is quite badass
[03:32:38] <coors> 1/2 hp, but it does overheat
[03:33:28] <coors> mine would be something like 12A 15V or so
[03:33:41] <coors> not sure what they wanna cut
[03:33:48] <coors> maybe 1/4" cuts in aluminum
[03:36:07] <r00t4rd3d> http://feedback.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewFeedback2&userid=wolfgang314&&_trksid=p2047675.l2560&rt=nc&iid=171011518183&sspagename=VIP:feedback&ftab=FeedbackAsSeller
[03:36:16] <r00t4rd3d> he has sold a lot of them on ebay too
[03:37:10] <coors> yeah people usually like em
[03:37:21] <coors> there's some bad feedback on cnczone though'
[03:37:33] <coors> basically because he doesn't know electronics
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[03:37:52] <coors> but to me that was no issue as long as the mechanical part is done right
[03:37:59] <coors> which it is in my opinion
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[03:43:11] <r00t4rd3d> in the mornings and 5-9pm this channel is a lot more active
[03:44:06] <r00t4rd3d> 10pm-7am not a good time for tech questions
[03:44:32] <r00t4rd3d> eastern time
[03:45:05] <coors> yeah, i'll have to try again
[03:45:12] <coors> but i appreciate your help
[03:45:23] <coors> i think it was nice talk
[03:45:44] <coors> maybe our machinist can help me out a bit tomorrow
[03:45:53] <r00t4rd3d> theres people here who actually do pcb stuff
[03:45:55] <coors> i hope he looks at it and goes "no kid, here's how you do it"
[03:46:06] <coors> and gives me some old ballscrews he has sitting there :)
[03:46:20] <coors> any idea who i would wanna talk to?
[03:47:12] <r00t4rd3d> i think Tom_itx and ReadError do pcb stuff
[03:48:20] <coors> ok, i guess i should ask them
[03:48:33] <coors> there is a lot of people here
[03:48:44] <coors> i usually make it home around 7-8 est
[03:49:01] <coors> so i just gotta get on before dinner and watching tv one of these days :)
[03:51:29] <coors> so what are you using again?
[03:51:35] <coors> acme screws, right?
[03:51:45] <r00t4rd3d> hardware store threaded rod
[03:52:03] <coors> the dumpster cnc ones?
[03:52:10] <coors> oh ok, that's what i got now
[03:52:23] <coors> have you put a dial gauge on that to see what's going on?
[03:52:30] <r00t4rd3d> i use the dumpster cnc couplers backlash nuts
[03:52:40] <r00t4rd3d> for the UN stuff
[03:52:58] <coors> wait, that's just hardware store grade?
[03:53:10] <r00t4rd3d> yeah
[03:53:24] <r00t4rd3d> 3/8-16 you can get at any hardware store
[03:53:42] <r00t4rd3d> http://dumpstercnc.com/un_menu.html
[03:53:57] <r00t4rd3d> well that link only sorta works
[03:54:10] <r00t4rd3d> http://dumpstercnc.com/
[03:54:46] <coors> oh, so what does it look like on a gauge? is your accurate to 1 mil?
[03:55:12] <coors> sorry, i got a bit distracted by this one
[03:55:13] <coors> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cySnG42s0lE
[03:55:27] <r00t4rd3d> never checked it
[03:55:39] <r00t4rd3d> seems pretty accurate though
[03:55:40] <r00t4rd3d> http://i.imgur.com/ItAawnD.jpg
[03:55:40] <coors> oh, you think you can do it?
[03:56:05] <coors> that one is yours?
[03:56:27] <r00t4rd3d> something i made yeah
[03:56:31] <coors> i like it, what are the dimensions on it?
[03:56:42] <r00t4rd3d> like 8x4
[03:56:45] <coors> i think what i am doing is a bit smaller than the small grooves on that one
[03:57:09] <coors> yeah, probably about 10x smaller than that
[03:57:15] <coors> that might be the problem
[03:57:21] <r00t4rd3d> http://i.imgur.com/bOwJHzp.jpg
[03:57:35] <r00t4rd3d> thats a pic from last year, Ive upgraded lots of stuff since
[03:58:01] <coors> i think it looks great
[03:58:14] <coors> i've had a lot of luck making regular stuff from hdpe
[03:58:28] <coors> just the small features on PCBs wont work out
[03:58:43] <Tom_itx> why not etch pcbs?
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[03:59:19] <coors> mostly because of the drilling
[03:59:32] <coors> i do a lot of projects that have a lot of parts and holes
[03:59:59] <coors> and after drilling 100 holes per board on 5 boards one day i decided i wanted to have a mill for that
[04:00:10] <Tom_itx> i like smt much better
[04:00:12] <coors> i was thinking about etching and then just drilling on the cnc
[04:00:22] <coors> but i'd have the same issue with backlash/slop
[04:00:50] <coors> yeah, i got quite a few parts as smt
[04:01:02] <coors> but all the connectors i am using are through hole
[04:01:21] <Tom_itx> i just have boards made anymore. i guess i'm geting lazy
[04:01:27] <coors> i guess i could make mostly smt boards
[04:01:41] <coors> yeah, i was looking into that
[04:01:43] <Tom_itx> it's not that much to have em made
[04:01:56] <coors> there's some pretty good deals out there especially if you have small series to make
[04:02:19] <coors> or you could get them panelized if you are willing to wait
[04:02:34] <Tom_itx> i've done both
[04:02:42] <Tom_itx> usually takes about the same time
[04:02:43] <coors> i have never had one made
[04:02:50] <Tom_itx> i've had quite a few done
[04:02:55] <L84Supper> coors: what size boards do you make and how many layers?
[04:02:57] <coors> the ones i needed recently, i made with toner transfer etching by hand
[04:03:09] <coors> 1-2 layers up to euro size
[04:03:37] <Tom_itx> http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/etching/etch_index.php
[04:03:48] <Tom_itx> there's my etch tank but i haven't used it in a while
[04:04:02] <coors> i have used it before
[04:04:08] <coors> thats the perchlorate, right?
[04:04:22] <Tom_itx> ammonium or sodium persulphate
[04:04:24] <Tom_itx> i have both
[04:04:24] <coors> i like the ferric/ferrous chloride better even though its more of a mess
[04:04:38] <coors> persulfate?
[04:04:44] <coors> yeah that's right
[04:04:52] <coors> it need to be at ~50 c to etch, right?
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[04:05:19] <Tom_itx> i just warm it under the tap water for a bit then etch
[04:05:39] <coors> yeah that'll work
[04:05:39] <L84Supper> we've been working on boards from the other direction, printing both the substrate and the conductors
[04:06:06] <coors> so why not use a fish tank heater as well? that worked quite well for me
[04:06:24] <coors> the bubbler in there is from a fishtank, right? at least the pump
[04:06:52] <Tom_itx> yeah and the hose
[04:06:56] <Tom_itx> just poked holes in it
[04:07:03] <coors> i haven't had much luck with double sided pcbs when doing toner transfer
[04:07:09] <coors> mostly because of alignment
[04:07:14] <Tom_itx> it's not so bad
[04:07:18] <coors> no, i liked it
[04:07:28] <Tom_itx> i use pins for alignment
[04:07:29] <coors> problem was it took longer for me
[04:07:37] <Tom_itx> do both sides at once
[04:07:39] <Tom_itx> i did
[04:07:47] <coors> the ferric chloride is 20 minutes either way, no matter what the temperature is
[04:08:10] <coors> do you laminate you printout?
[04:08:15] <coors> or do you iron it?
[04:08:21] <Tom_itx> iron
[04:08:30] <Tom_itx> i've tried all sorts of stuff
[04:08:39] <coors> oh, i got a little laminator
[04:08:45] <Tom_itx> haven't done much lately though
[04:08:46] <coors> for single sided it works like a charm
[04:09:00] <coors> for double sided it tends to move the paper too much though
[04:09:17] <Tom_itx> you can see my stash of copper at the bottom of that page
[04:09:25] <Tom_itx> i used to have alot more
[04:09:44] <coors> where do you order from? china directly?
[04:09:49] <Tom_itx> usually
[04:09:51] <coors> i tend to get the large sheets from digikey
[04:09:57] <Tom_itx> or a guy in #avr
[04:09:58] <coors> those are reasonable cheap
[04:10:03] <Tom_itx> does orders
[04:10:09] <Tom_itx> from china
[04:10:15] <Tom_itx> pretty good results
[04:10:23] <L84Supper> do you guys plate your thru holes?
[04:10:27] <coors> that's all 1/2 oz?
[04:10:34] <Tom_itx> join #hackvana i think if you want more info
[04:10:38] <coors> no, i solder pins right through
[04:10:43] <coors> plating takes too long for me
[04:11:15] <Tom_itx> yeah, i've never joined there but that's it
[04:11:58] <r00t4rd3d> in #arduino pcb's are discussed a ton also
[04:11:58] <coors> yeah, i like the electronics part
[04:12:07] <r00t4rd3d> eagle all that crap
[04:12:09] <coors> if only the hardware was as easy to handle
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[04:12:21] <Tom_itx> http://au.element14.com/jsp/search/productdetail.jsp?sku=1143874
[04:12:27] <Tom_itx> for thru holes
[04:12:41] <Tom_itx> or use components as much as possible
[04:13:10] <coors> those are crimp-style pins?
[04:13:20] <Tom_itx> i think so
[04:13:25] <Tom_itx> i haven't tried em
[04:13:27] <coors> i've never used them
[04:13:38] <coors> yeah i talked to people who said its easy
[04:13:49] <coors> if you got a press
[04:14:23] <coors> well, either way... i think i wanna use my cnc to mill boards
[04:14:35] <coors> basically because i started it and i can't take the defeat :>
[04:14:42] <coors> i don't know if you know that feeling
[04:14:45] <coors> but it bugs me
[04:15:16] <coors> the other ways work for me as well, but it appears that double sided boards are fastest made on a little mill
[04:15:25] <r00t4rd3d> do a led and a battery holder and call it good
[04:15:31] <coors> hehe :)
[04:15:35] <r00t4rd3d> through hole
[04:15:38] <coors> i like that idea
[04:15:48] <coors> i can get thorugh hole things to work
[04:15:56] <coors> it ain't pretty but it's on the PCB
[04:16:09] <coors> just mixed smt/through hole things won't work yet
[04:16:21] <coors> but i need them for USB connections for example
[04:16:26] <Tom_itx> i've come to the conclusion it's cheaper to get them done given my time and the chemicals etc required
[04:16:36] <r00t4rd3d> what kinda pcb's do you wanna make?
[04:16:40] <coors> unless i get my act together and learn how to do USB on those DIP PICs
[04:16:41] <r00t4rd3d> for what
[04:16:42] <Tom_itx> unless i just have something i wanna try real quick
[04:17:11] <r00t4rd3d> it would be cool to mill my own arduino
[04:17:13] <coors> i make a lot of boards that would talk to computers
[04:17:19] <Tom_itx> anyway.. i'm out for tonight
[04:17:26] <coors> like automation stuff and sensor readout for example
[04:17:36] <coors> i've etched my own
[04:17:44] <L84Supper> things would be a lot easier for you guys if you could just inkjet a complete multilayer PCB in a few minutes
[04:17:45] <coors> but the milling is what's next
[04:17:53] <Tom_itx> http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/boards/USB_Breakout/USB_Breakout_index.php
[04:17:55] <coors> i'd love that
[04:18:03] <coors> well tom, have a good night
[04:18:11] <coors> and thanks for your thoughts
[04:18:30] <Tom_itx> that's a little usb breakout board
[04:18:49] <coors> is that an avr with usb otg?
[04:18:53] <Tom_itx> that and LUFA and you're all set
[04:18:54] <Tom_itx> no
[04:18:58] <coors> or is there a ftdi chip hidden somewhere?
[04:18:59] <Tom_itx> only the 2387 is OTG
[04:19:13] <Tom_itx> aarg
[04:19:20] <Tom_itx> not 2387
[04:19:23] <Tom_itx> i forget now
[04:19:33] <coors> looks like mega128 or so
[04:19:45] <coors> but you'd have to have a ft232 or something
[04:19:49] <Tom_itx> mega32u2
[04:19:52] <coors> mega32
[04:19:56] <coors> that's right
[04:19:56] <Tom_itx> u2
[04:20:02] <Tom_itx> is usb
[04:20:09] <coors> mega32 is?
[04:20:15] <Tom_itx> no
[04:20:19] <Tom_itx> the 32u2 is
[04:20:26] <coors> ah that's the trick
[04:20:32] <coors> saves me 8 bucks
[04:20:39] <coors> i'll look into that
[04:20:40] <Tom_itx> http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/boards/atmega32u4/atmega32u4_1.jpg
[04:20:44] <Tom_itx> there's a 32U4
[04:20:56] <Tom_itx> that one has ADC
[04:21:01] <Tom_itx> the first one doesn't
[04:21:16] <L84Supper> http://www.pjrc.com/store/teensy_pins.html is that the same?
[04:21:25] <Tom_itx> very similar
[04:21:27] <coors> hmm
[04:21:35] <coors> when i look on digikey it only lists rs232
[04:21:37] <coors> but no usb
[04:21:42] <coors> http://www.digikey.com/product-search/en/integrated-circuits-ics/embedded-microcontrollers/2556109?k=mega32u4
[04:21:46] <L84Supper> ATMEGA32U4 yeah
[04:21:50] <coors> nvm
[04:21:52] <coors> didnt see it
[04:22:12] <Tom_itx> L84Supper, the teensy2 may be otg
[04:22:19] <coors> hmm, how new is that one?
[04:22:23] <L84Supper> Tom_itx:
http://www.pjrc.com/teensy/index.html does you board work with the Teensy loader?
[04:22:24] <Tom_itx> one of his is i believe
[04:22:27] <coors> i must have missed it when i last bought avrs
[04:22:40] <Tom_itx> his bootloader is proprietary
[04:22:47] <coors> i only saw some of the xmegas, but i didnt want 3.3v supply
[04:23:06] <Tom_itx> dean has a bootloader in the LUFA lib and the U chips all come with a bootloader from atmel
[04:23:59] <Tom_itx> the only atmel otg chip is the 1287
[04:24:04] <L84Supper> we were using the ATMEGA32U4 to control a few steppers in a SLA printer
[04:24:09] <Tom_itx> unless some of the xmega are
[04:24:11] <Tom_itx> i dunno
[04:24:18] <coors> i think they are
[04:24:31] <coors> and they have better adcs and a dac as well i think
[04:24:33] <Tom_itx> but they're 3v only parts
[04:24:36] <coors> but no 5v version
[04:24:40] <coors> yeah
[04:25:02] <coors> i ordered one, but couldn't really interface it with anything without level shifters
[04:25:09] <coors> which just pissed me off beyond belief
[04:25:15] <coors> so i pretty much trashed it
[04:25:39] <coors> are you guys around a lot?
[04:25:45] <Tom_itx> nxp makes a good level shifter
[04:25:45] <coors> i like it here :)
[04:25:56] <coors> i tried the one from spark fun, that wasn't bad either
[04:26:04] <Tom_itx> i'm in a few channels here
[04:26:42] <coors> well, i'll be around here for sure
[04:26:47] <coors> but gotta go to bed as well
[04:26:56] <Tom_itx> where are you?
[04:27:01] <coors> i hope we can talk again, you seem to be doing interesting stuff
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[04:27:09] <coors> indiana
[04:27:28] <Tom_itx> laters then
[04:27:33] <coors> so i'm on eastern time and it's beyond bed time
[04:27:37] <coors> cya
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[05:55:50] <r00t4rd3d> you can get the cheaper pi's now
[05:55:51] <r00t4rd3d> http://www.alliedelec.com/lp/120626raso/
[05:55:58] <r00t4rd3d> model B
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[06:47:21] <Connor> Anyone know how to set up glade toggle bottons so that if you toggle one on, it toggles the others off ?
[07:03:35] <mhaberler> either use radiobuttons, or you need to program handlers which set the state of other widgets
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[08:18:39] <Loetmichel> mornin'
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[09:23:54] <DJ9DJ> moin
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[11:04:51] <jthornton> wow I over slept this morning
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[11:33:40] <Tom_itx> cold rainy days do that
[11:40:04] <jthornton> and road trips
[11:40:13] <jthornton> got another one today
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[12:38:27] <ProxDem> jthornton: you wouldn't happen to have a nice probekins how to on that webpage of yours now would you =P
[12:39:48] <jthornton> I don't even know what a probekins does
[12:40:28] <jthornton> how is that different from a trivkins?
[12:45:54] <ProxDem> uses a probe grid instead
[12:46:14] <ProxDem> I have a sag in my X axis (hopefully not in any other axis
[12:46:33] <jthornton> for the Z axis?
[12:46:51] <jthornton> like using a surface map?
[12:46:56] <ProxDem> only way to correct that would be to adjust the Z axis with a surface map
[12:47:10] <ProxDem> yeah but would have to always apply to any running job =(
[12:47:34] <ProxDem> especialy the bed leveling one lol
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[13:04:47] <r00t4rd3d> eww aspires trial edition is now 4.0
[13:05:15] <AR_> hi
[13:12:14] <ReadError> whats different r00t4rd3d ?
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[13:19:26] <r00t4rd3d> not really sure
[13:25:21] <AR_> anyone here do PCB milling?
[13:25:48] <roh> not yet
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[13:27:36] <AR_> i'm currently using Eagle with pcb-gcode to generate the toolpaths
[13:27:47] <AR_> wondering if there's anything better that is also free
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[13:35:45] <skunkworks> I used the gcode.ulp from the wiki
[13:36:08] <skunkworks> it is setup to do tool changes with a tool length switch.
[13:36:39] <skunkworks> setup the first tool - linuxcnc measures it - then every tool is referenced from the first.
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[13:39:33] <AR_> yeah
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[14:22:41] <r00t4rd3d> i just designed wood mallet:
http://i.imgur.com/BTrAzXK.jpg
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[14:23:36] <AR_> you are a good designer
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[14:38:30] <skunkworks> AR_,
http://electronicsam.com/images/KandT/servostart/schem/newcurrentlimit/top.JPG
[14:38:45] <skunkworks> http://electronicsam.com/images/KandT/servostart/schem/newcurrentlimit/bottom.JPG
[14:38:50] <skunkworks> a failed attempt...
[14:40:21] <AR_> lol
[14:40:22] <AR_> what happened
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[14:41:41] <L84Supper> how do you fixture the plated PCB for milling since the boards tend to be warped?
[14:41:58] <syyl> double sided tape works great
[14:42:01] <AR_> a lot of people just tape them
[14:42:57] <AR_> what i plan on doing is taking a piece of wood or plastic and milling flat a rectangle the size of the board
[14:43:27] <AR_> and tape the sides or something if clamping warps it too much
[14:43:52] <AR_> every way of clamping i've tried has bowed the board too much
[14:43:56] <syyl> just surface a piece of something
[14:44:00] <syyl> and tape it
[14:44:04] <AR_> yeah
[14:44:06] <syyl> works just fine :)
[14:44:17] <AR_> doesnt it move at all just being taped?
[14:44:18] <syyl> https://dl.dropbox.com/u/24396704/Deckel%20G2/port4_2.jpg
[14:44:21] <syyl> nope
[14:44:23] <AR_> i guess the cuts are so light
[14:44:40] <AR_> nice
[14:44:44] <syyl> https://dl.dropbox.com/u/24396704/Deckel%20G2/port4_1.jpg
[14:44:50] <AR_> what tools do you use?
[14:45:06] <syyl> i use a 60deg single lip engraving cutter
[14:45:12] <L84Supper> what if you had a nozzle (say 0.003" dia) and copper ink you could attach to a mill?
[14:45:17] <AR_> lol
[14:45:29] <AR_> like a 3d printer with copper
[14:45:41] <AR_> you could make 3d circuits
[14:45:59] <syyl> but i dont machine any more pcbs
[14:46:09] <AR_> etch?
[14:46:14] <syyl> it hand them to a company to etc/drill/etc it
[14:46:19] <AR_> yeah
[14:46:24] <syyl> so i get a perfect industrial grade pcb
[14:46:30] <skunkworks> This seemed to be the final solution
http://electronicsam.com/images/KandT/servostart/schem/latestcurrentlimit/right.JPG
[14:46:42] <syyl> except for the layout ;)
[14:46:44] <skunkworks> but I never put it into real service.. Just tested it.
[14:46:48] <AR_> i just figure for small boards it would be nice to have a setup for quick prototyping
[14:46:58] <skunkworks> I used vacumm
[14:46:59] <AR_> without hte mess of chemical etching
[14:47:02] <syyl> thats a serious cap
[14:47:04] <syyl> :D
[14:47:46] <AR_> what does it even do
[14:48:03] <skunkworks> 20A 200v brushed servo pwm amp
[14:48:23] <skunkworks> http://electronicsam.com/images/KandT/servostart/schem/latestcurrentlimit/latestschem.png
[14:48:59] <AR_> oh
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[14:49:22] <skunkworks> I found some amc drives off ebay instead..
[14:49:31] <skunkworks> 40a400v... :)
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[15:05:19] <r00t4rd3d> ready to cut:
http://i.imgur.com/KUD3Fcf.jpg
[15:05:21] <r00t4rd3d> :D
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[15:15:19] <AR_> is that 1 or 2 mallets
[15:17:12] <skunkworks> 1 I would guess - laminated
[15:17:34] <AR_> i see
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[15:24:28] <r00t4rd3d> 1
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[15:29:34] <r00t4rd3d> when i glue it all together the handle will be 1.5inches thick and the head will be 3inches thick
[15:31:27] <r00t4rd3d> then i will put it on craigs list for 20 bucks :)
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[15:35:03] <r00t4rd3d> gonna cut out of reclaimed pallet boards
[15:35:14] <r00t4rd3d> free wood
[15:35:18] <r00t4rd3d> just like morning
[15:37:40] <Tom_itx> what do you stain the lettering with?
[15:38:23] <r00t4rd3d> paint or gel stain
[15:38:40] <r00t4rd3d> ill mask it first with painters tape before i do the v cuts
[15:39:16] <r00t4rd3d> then you only have to hit it a touch with sandpaper after you paint/stain it
[15:39:27] <r00t4rd3d> if any leaks under
[15:39:35] <r00t4rd3d> which it always does :/
[15:40:44] <Tom_itx> groove it, paint it, skin cut the top
[15:42:20] <pcw_home> sounds like some weird chant
[15:42:32] <Tom_itx> rinse and repeat
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[15:47:35] <r00t4rd3d> http://www.cnczone.com/forums/diy_cnc_router_table_machines/152794-mdf_madness-17.html#post1255431
[15:47:44] <r00t4rd3d> i posted the files if anyone wants to make one
[15:49:12] <Tom_itx> if you cnc'd it, the holes will align :)
[15:49:22] <r00t4rd3d> even after sanding?
[15:49:23] <Tom_itx> cut em with the .125 em
[15:49:28] <Tom_itx> are they gonna move?
[15:49:40] <r00t4rd3d> i played it safe
[15:49:57] <cradek> web forums that require a login to see an attachment are obnoxious
[15:50:05] -!- hewball has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
[15:50:09] <r00t4rd3d> you dont have a cnczone account?
[15:51:18] -!- erictheise has quit [Quit: erictheise]
[15:51:23] <r00t4rd3d> you could probably be semi famous and get pms all day
[15:51:30] <cradek> ugh
[15:51:35] <L84Supper> what if you're a commie/terrorist/priest trying to steal the attachment?
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[15:54:03] <r00t4rd3d> cradek, have you viewed linuxcnc forums lately? I think they require that also.
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[15:54:37] <cradek> yes, it's also obnoxious there :-)
[15:54:40] <r00t4rd3d> i had to give blood to register
[15:55:08] <r00t4rd3d> JT-Shop wanted to do a cavity search
[15:55:40] <L84Supper> dental or other?
[15:56:17] <r00t4rd3d> hi im r00t4rd3d
[15:57:57] <r00t4rd3d> lets have a contest
[15:58:07] <r00t4rd3d> see who can make the best wooden mallet
[15:58:30] <L84Supper> can you make it from aluminum?
[15:58:36] <r00t4rd3d> something to do on the forums other then boring
[15:58:45] <r00t4rd3d> ok mallet
[15:58:50] <r00t4rd3d> from any material
[15:59:08] <r00t4rd3d> everyone needs a hammer
[16:02:06] <r00t4rd3d> i rarely see anything on linuxcnc forums about stuff people actually make with it
[16:02:56] <r00t4rd3d> its all nerd talk
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[16:05:37] <skunkworks> like this?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ltmZrDrt6pQ
[16:06:12] <r00t4rd3d> omg i lasted about 15 seconds
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[16:08:28] <r00t4rd3d> i can only understand every 3rd word
[16:09:08] <pcw_home> Thats because you can't understand English :-)
[16:09:28] <r00t4rd3d> he needs to pull the tea bag out his mouth
[16:09:54] <ReadError> y u no like andy?
[16:10:07] <r00t4rd3d> i do
[16:10:16] <r00t4rd3d> his accent kills me though
[16:10:31] <r00t4rd3d> and he talks at lightening speed
[16:11:24] <r00t4rd3d> i could never drink beer with him
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[16:17:45] <L84Supper> hhmm, CNCZone doesn't have a forum for additive manufacturing/3D printers
[16:18:20] <L84Supper> sorry, they do, way at the bottom
[16:21:31] <r00t4rd3d> http://www.cnczone.com/forums/forum.php#a-3d_printers
[16:22:20] <r00t4rd3d> not very popular though
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[16:24:34] <L84Supper> well most DIYers are stuck on the glorified glue guns in reprap
[16:25:42] <r00t4rd3d> lol
[16:27:06] <tjtr33> "ggg" good one
[16:27:24] <L84Supper> they should call it GGG vs FFF
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[16:32:55] <tjtr33> my 3ph BLDC motors only have UVW (no halls) and a serial encoder
http://imagebin.org/252537.
[16:33:01] <tjtr33> if i manage to decode the serial encoder data, how do i use the 3ph motor w/o halls?
[16:33:02] <tjtr33> What products are available past the Mesa 5i2x plus hal components?
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[16:36:51] <skunkworks> uvw usually means halls...
[16:37:16] <pcw_home> encoder is absolute so Halls are not needed
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[16:39:08] <tjtr33> thx skunk, but it really doesnt have halls. 4 wires, u v w and gnd
[16:39:57] <tjtr33> pcw_home how would i use it once i decode the encoder problem? 7i39? what are the options?
[16:40:19] <tjtr33> i scoped the encoder output and see pkts every 28uS
[16:40:26] <pcw_home> Do you have voltage/current specs for the motors
[16:40:45] <tjtr33> 50w *=(yes tiny ) 282-325V
[16:41:09] <pcw_home> thats a pain
[16:41:17] <tjtr33> ? 1/8 amp :)
[16:41:43] <pcw_home> probably 1/2 A peak
[16:41:56] <tjtr33> thats the end effector wrist motor, but none are > 200W
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[16:45:50] <tjtr33> is there a linuxcnc config for hall-less BLDC's using absolute encoders? ( and do i get to pick the color ? :)
[16:46:03] <Loetmichel> re @ home
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[16:50:30] <pcw_home> Yes BLDC works with absolute encoders
[16:50:54] <pcw_home> (assuming theres a way to read yours)
[16:53:46] <tjtr33> i havent hooked the encoder output to a serial terminal yet, like putty or... but the scope shows a packet every 28uS
[16:54:32] <tjtr33> (now looking for 3ph bridges that could be controlled by 5i2x pwm )
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[16:55:49] <tjtr33> is 7i39 a possiblitlity? ( ignore halls connections )
[16:56:04] <pcw_home> not for 320V motors
[16:57:09] <tjtr33> :( the encoder is actually an add on, could i put halls back there? they just need to be timed to rotor position, not actually inside motor?
[16:57:49] <pcw_home> you can get the bare bridge cheaply but getting 300V stuff to not explode the first time is interesting
[16:58:50] <tjtr33> what part explodes first? hope its the cheap bit
[16:59:12] <pcw_home> If the encoder is a 17 bit absolute encoder, you definately dont want to lose it
[16:59:32] <Loetmichel> tjtr33: murphy says: the expensivest part first
[17:00:00] <Loetmichel> "the FET saves the fuse by burning faster than it"
[17:00:10] <tjtr33> ok, so i keep the 320V motor and the 17bit encoder, i'm back to what bits to buy
[17:00:31] <tjtr33> Loetmichel, :) yep, and theres proof to that law
[17:00:51] <pcw_home> FNB41060 is more than enough as a 3 phase bridge (5A @100C case temp)
[17:03:57] <tjtr33> ! thx 600V 10A nice pkg, 13$ DK
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[17:05:34] <tjtr33> ah, dont google 3 phase bridge, google 3 phase inverter :)
[17:08:14] <Loetmichel> *hrhr, strike* last week i broke the next to last 2mm 2 flute TC mill bit... today there was a mail from sorotec "your order has been sent today" ... "hmm, i ordered nothing?" ... called tha supplier: "yes, thats the delayed delivery from last month."
[17:08:54] <Loetmichel> ... i just was in the process to order some 2mm bits ... no i get 6 tha ih have already payed and forgotten ;-)
[17:10:56] <IchGuckLive> ha on 123 i got 25 for 22 euros
[17:11:20] <IchGuckLive> they also got 50 in stock 0.8-2.4
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[17:13:25] <L84Supper> paid $6 for a 10-32 tap earlier at Home Depot, that thing better be made of titanium
[17:13:46] <ReadError> lowes doesnt even sell taps anymore :(
[17:14:05] <L84Supper> home depot only carried about 10 sizes
[17:14:28] <L84Supper> shrink wrapped with a drill bit
[17:14:50] <L84Supper> Menards still carries a ton
[17:15:26] <andypugh> 10 sizes is M2 to M18, covers most requirements :-)
[17:16:22] <skunkworks> andypugh, where you thinking of doing gears first? (for your x axis drive)
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[17:16:50] <andypugh> No, I always planned on belts.
[17:17:15] <andypugh> And I planned on buying the pulleys.
[17:17:41] <andypugh> Hmm, I could make a belt mould couldn't ?
[17:18:30] <skunkworks> andypugh, don't go overbaord.. ;)
[17:19:03] <r00t4rd3d> http://blog.r6velocity.com/?x=entry:entry130331-220708
[17:19:11] <r00t4rd3d> check out that indexer
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[17:19:46] <skunkworks> andypugh, thought this was related :)
https://plus.google.com/photos/108164504656404380542/albums/5747722155741347649/5824161311834980434?banner=pwa
[17:21:20] <L84Supper> http://www.harborfreight.com/hand-tools/tap-die/21-piece-carbon-steel-sae-tap-and-die-set-69679.html
[17:21:35] <L84Supper> only $9 for a whole set of cheap taps and dies
[17:22:41] <AR_> they'd probably all snap on the first twist
[17:22:55] <L84Supper> ok for aluminum
[17:22:57] <ReadError> i just buy them as needed from mcmaster
[17:23:04] <ReadError> gotta love overnight shipping ;)
[17:23:27] <AR_> aluminum can be harder to tap than steel
[17:23:29] <AR_> galling
[17:23:37] <L84Supper> they only break 1/2 way in, on the last hole for the night
[17:23:44] <AR_> lol
[17:23:46] <IchGuckLive> Loetmichel:
http://stores.ebay.de/gabysvhmshop2012?_rdc=1
[17:23:46] <AR_> true
[17:23:56] <L84Supper> so it's more likely operator error
[17:24:25] <AR_> i used to break taps all the time in aluminum
[17:24:27] <Loetmichel> IchGuckLive: so what?
[17:24:42] <AR_> till i realized you need to break the chip every 1/4 turn
[17:24:42] <Loetmichel> i like to order where i know which quality i get
[17:24:51] <Loetmichel> -> sorotec.de
[17:25:03] <IchGuckLive> thanks
[17:25:46] <andypugh> AR_: I tap with a cordless drill. Never chip-break in Alu. But I buy good taps.
[17:26:10] <AR_> :D
[17:27:28] <AR_> well i guess if you drill it out well enough
[17:27:39] <andypugh> skunkworks: Those gears are related, they drive the resolver which gives the spindle feedback. Two ratios for each of the possible vertical head ratios.
[17:28:01] <Loetmichel> AR_: tahts sounds like my colleague ages ago in apprenticeship: co: tapping a m12 dead end hole... *turn**turn**turn**turn**turn* me: "sy, wont you try to break the chi..." *KNACK*" ... nevermind!"
[17:28:15] <AR_> LOL
[17:28:17] <AR_> yup
[17:28:19] <Loetmichel> he was tapping with a normal hand tool
[17:28:25] <AR_> yup
[17:29:53] <Loetmichel> ... this guy had the looks of a grizzly... and the mind of a 4 year old ;-)
[17:30:54] <andypugh> AR_: I only ever use the correct tapping size.
[17:32:18] <andypugh> You don't need many taps if you work in metric, 3, 4, 5, 6, 8, 10, 12. I added a 2mm for mounting optos. Tapping size for M6 is 5mm, so that's only 6 special tapping drills.
[17:34:08] <L84Supper> we had to had tap the center of some t-slot, all M8, I need to make a fixture to rigid tap long lengths
[17:35:42] <tjtr33> my serial data is 'differential' ( SD+ SD- ), and dont have any RS485 here.
[17:35:47] <tjtr33> do i feed SD+ SD- to an opamp?, then connect opamps output to a serial port's Rx and opamps gnd to serial gnd?
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[17:38:31] <L84Supper> ReadError:
http://www.lowes.com/Tools/Hand-Tools/Tap-Die-Sets/_/N-1z0ykbi/pl#! maybe they are just online now
[17:39:04] <ReadError> yea seems that way
[17:39:06] <ReadError> still dumb ;(
[17:39:09] <tjtr33> haha i knew about MAX232's , didnt know there were MAX485's
[17:39:34] <L84Supper> their website had a glitch a few months ago, threaded rods were going for 2 cents on the dollar if you ordered on the website
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[17:52:46] <L84Supper> anyone know of a sheet material similar to nitrocellulose (flash) paper that either combusts rapidly or is quickly (few seconds) dissolved in water?
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[17:57:31] <pcw_home> tjtr33: if is input only, you use a differential receiver (26LS32 or CMOS equiv)
[17:57:44] <pcw_home> s/is/its/
[17:59:18] <pcw_home> Theres that edible rice paper that Botan Ami candies are wrapped in
[17:59:54] <tjtr33> pcw_home thx again
[18:00:21] <L84Supper> heh, I knew those Botan candies were good for something :)
[18:00:30] <tjtr33> and i think Jymmmmmmm was looking for flash paper a while back
[18:02:25] <Jymmm> Nitrocellious
[18:02:38] <Jymmm> but too chickenshit to make it =)
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[18:06:29] <pcw_home> take some smokeless powder dissolve in acetone. spread thin on polyethylene sheet, let dry Voila
[18:07:30] <Jymmm> nitricacid
[18:07:50] <L84Supper> edible would also work, but I'm not sure how long you can keep hungry critters in a box with a remote latch on the door
[18:08:25] <pcw_home> no need for chemistry, its already made for you in smokeless powder
[18:08:54] <Jymmm> Hmmm, why PE ?
[18:09:12] <pcw_home> so it does not stick
[18:09:27] <Jymmm> ahhhh
[18:09:57] <L84Supper> have to reup my firearms license, then again I can pay 25x more and get it through Aldrich
[18:09:59] <Jymmm> so wheres the organic matter?
[18:11:42] <pcw_home> Smokeless powder is a mix of nitrocellulose and nitroglycerine (and graphite and other additives)
[18:11:44] <pcw_home> or at least used to be
[18:12:14] <pcw_home> ping pong balls are ofter nitrocellulose
[18:12:27] <Jymmm> OH, so what does disolving in acetone do for me?
[18:12:41] <L84Supper> https://www.midsouthshooterssupply.com/department.asp?dept=Reloading&dept2=SMOKELESS%20POWDER
[18:12:47] <Jymmm> Yeah, but expensive =)
[18:12:59] <pcw_home> allows you to reform it into "paper"
[18:13:02] <IchGuckLive> im off by
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[18:13:11] <Jymmm> pcw_home: gotcha =)
[18:13:30] <L84Supper> turns it into a liquid that can be spread and let to evaporate leaving a film or sheet
[18:14:32] <jdh> I've got 5 or 6 lbs in the garage
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[18:16:48] <pcw_home> When I was a kid you could get really cheap BE Hodgdon surplus powders
[18:16:56] <tjtr33> L84Supper, flash paper and dissolving paper at a really fun place up on Lincoln Ave.
http://www.magicinc.net
[18:17:19] <jdh> smokeless powder isn't much fun other than in bullets
[18:17:49] <pcw_home> Its a great binder for 2 component rocket fuels
[18:17:50] <L84Supper> tjtr33: that's where I used to buy it when i was a kid
[18:18:28] <jdh> I use Hogdon TiteGroup(tm) for .40s&w
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[18:19:23] <L84Supper> looking at different methods to produce electronics that literally disappear
[18:19:50] <jdh> igniter + magnesium + thermite
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[18:20:17] <L84Supper> quietly and silently, without much smoke
[18:20:21] <tjtr33> like Atari? & C64 ?
[18:20:45] <L84Supper> make it look like an iphone, brilliant!
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[18:21:33] <L84Supper> but hiding in plain site isn't an option
[18:21:50] <pcw_home> some kind of fiber (oat bran) reinforced sugar
[18:22:51] <L84Supper> yeah, but it needs to disappear quickly, few seconds
[18:23:45] <L84Supper> bacteria plus a sugar would work if you had a few hours or days
[18:24:22] <L84Supper> Phosphorus pentoxide
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[18:24:47] <L84Supper> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ccPcfYQnmVw
[18:24:48] <Tecan> (ccPcfYQnmVw) "Reaction of phosphorus pentoxide with Water experiment No. 12" by "Facer91" is "Entertainment" - Length: 0:00:38
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[18:25:37] <pcw_home> how about just swelling into a mess: Sodium polyacrylate
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[18:29:39] <L84Supper> we can print active circuits using fluids that won't leave much residue, it's the PCB that is a challenge and takes up the most volume
[18:29:54] <pcw_home> with phosphorus pentoxide you get phosphoric acid so with a little flavoring you get a Coke when you dissolve your IPhone
[18:31:47] <L84Supper> also a power source
[18:36:49] <L84Supper> the battery seems like the toughest challenge
[18:39:26] <L84Supper> how do you turn a cockroach into a battery?
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[18:43:04] <JT-Shop> solidworks
[18:43:49] <jdh> do you have a good model for the cockroach?
[18:44:09] <ReadError> dissolve your iphone?
[18:44:12] <ReadError> onoes
[18:48:35] <JT-Shop> I had one but it got squashed
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[19:32:16] <tjtr33> if i add hall sensors to my BLDC motors, will that make interfacing easier?
[19:32:18] <tjtr33> i see web hacks externally adding Halls to electric airplane motors.
[19:32:54] <tjtr33> is placement critical? thinking of a clamping sleeve on round body
[19:33:41] <pcw_home> Not if you get the encoder working (an absolute encoder is better in every way than the Halls)
[19:34:30] <tjtr33> ok, then thats where the effort goes, thx
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[19:34:50] <pcw_home> (well the Halls _are_ an absolute encoder but with only 60 degree resolution)
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[19:40:52] <Connor> Hey, what's a easy way to max linuxcnc startup maximized (2.6)
[19:41:36] <jdh> make a .pif!
[19:42:27] <Connor> funny
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[19:44:20] <alex_joni> Connor: check the wiki
[19:48:55] <andypugh> pcw_home: I think halls give 20 degree resolution on a 6-pole motor. With a 5mm pitch screw that's .3mm resolution. I am sure there are applications where that it entirely fine.
[19:50:29] <PCW_> yeah should have said 60 _electrical_ degrees
[19:53:34] <PCW_> Ive seen systems with quite crude encoders with gear reduction drives (5000 RPM motor and ~100 count encoder)
[19:55:37] <andypugh> I keep meaning to put velocity output and interpolated position into bldc. I reckon that the halls on my 12-pole washing-machine motor would give perfectly adequate resolution for threading.
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[20:03:19] <andypugh> As the X on my mill is still manual, I was idly wondering about wrapping a string with a weight on the end round the shaft of a spare resolver, to give me at least a alsh0up DRO function.
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[20:05:33] <t12> laser printer spinning mirror on a shaft
[20:05:37] <t12> and a liear ccd
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[20:09:54] <Jymmm> I'll take one please...
http://www.flixxy.com/volkswagen-levitating-car.htm#.UVs5H6t35gY
[20:13:28] <Connor> looks like the forum is saying to use devilspie program to make it maximize..
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[20:24:52] <JT-Shop> Axis?
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[20:30:45] <jdh> yesterday I think
[20:30:52] <jdh> <urk>
[20:31:50] <tjtr33> Jymmm,
http://www.zaoche.cn/welcome its great to see the kids work on thier ideas, are there such competitions in USA ( notice the team names are all anglo :)
http://www.zaoche.cn/welcome
[20:33:25] <Connor> JT-Shop: jdh Huh? I miss something ?
[20:34:21] <jdh> wrong channel
[20:34:48] <JT-Shop> do you want to maximize Axis?
[20:34:56] <Connor> yes. on startup
[20:35:03] <JT-Shop> http://www.linuxcnc.org/index.php/english/forum/21-axis/320-faq
[20:35:30] <Connor> yup. that's what I found.
[20:35:47] <Connor> that the only way.. that's crazy to have to use a external program..
[20:35:49] <jdh> the .axisrc one?
[20:36:01] <Connor> I've not found the .axisrc one..
[20:36:19] <jdh> http://www.linuxcnc.org/emc2/index.php/italian/forum/10-advanced-configuration/10272-one-button-multiple-functions?limit=6&start=6#10292
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[20:37:21] <JT-Shop> there is several ways in that link
[20:37:32] <Connor> okay. the .axisrc worked..
[20:37:33] <JT-Shop> are/is
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[20:43:30] <Connor> okay, is there a way to make a machine come up in inches when it's setup as a metric?
[20:44:25] <Jymmm> add a second profile and name it inches?
[20:44:47] <Connor> Screws and table are all metric.
[20:45:10] <Jymmm> and?
[20:45:30] <Connor> I don't want to convert all the settings.... I just would prefer it start up in imperial.
[20:47:13] <Jymmm> And I just told you a way to do it.
[20:48:14] <Tom_itx> JT-Shop, you should be getting a package today
[20:48:58] <JT-Shop> USPS?
[20:49:04] <Tom_itx> yeas
[20:49:18] <JT-Shop> ok, he has not been by here yet
[20:50:40] <Connor> Jymmm: If I change LINEAR_UNITS = inch then I have to change all the values for everything in the profile..
[20:52:38] <Connor> the equivalent of doing the ! command in axis after it loads..
[20:53:13] <Tom_itx> my cad cam will post either one no matter what the model was in
[20:53:26] <Tom_itx> lcnc doesn't work that way?
[20:53:44] <Tom_itx> isn't there a gcode for units?
[20:54:17] <Connor> Tom_itx: That's not even it.. It's more about the DRO and Velocity Speed outputs in Axis..
[20:55:36] <Tom_itx> have you tried it?
[20:55:40] <Tom_itx> G20 G21
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[21:00:31] <DJ9DJ> gn8
[21:00:34] <Tom_itx> LINEAR_UNITS = <units> - Specifies the machine units for linear axes. Possible choices are (in, inch, imperial, metric, mm). This does not affect the linear units in NC code (the G20 and G21 words do this).
[21:00:37] <Tom_itx> UNITS = INCH - If specified, this setting overrides the related [TRAJ] UNITS setting. (e.g., [TRAJ]LINEAR_UNITS if the TYPE of this axis is LINEAR, [TRAJ]ANGULAR_UNITS if the TYPE of this axis is ANGULAR)
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[21:04:08] <Connor> Isnt' units for each axis?
[21:04:43] <Tom_itx> yes
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[21:08:18] <JT-Shop> Display Inches - Set the AXIS display scaling for inches.
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[21:21:29] <Connor> JT-Shop: Yea. that's the comment line for the command.. but, doesn't tell me how to make it default to one or the other..
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[21:23:03] <Connor> I.E. I want to leave the machine units in metric.. just have Axis come up defaulted in Inches.
[21:23:45] <JT-Shop> Axis remembers your menu choice
[21:24:45] <Connor> Umm.. since when.. and it doesn't appear to.. I loaded it up.. changed it to inches.. closed brought it back up and was back were it was first time I launched it.
[21:27:40] <JT-Shop> last time I tried it, it worked
[21:31:33] <Connor> I just tested it both in the SIM and on my router machine.. nope.. doesn't preserve the axis units view..
[21:35:24] <JT-Shop> I just tested sim and it doesn't work either...
[21:35:34] <JT-Shop> now how did I make that work once???
[21:37:24] <Connor> It's the stupidest thing... no way to default the DRO to a specific unit.. it just defaults the the machine unit.. I think I hacked Axis once...
[21:39:02] <skunkworks> can't you edit the ini and set the RS274NGC_STARTUP_CODE and add g20 or g21?
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[21:39:51] <cradek> g20/g21 have nothing to do with the dro
[21:39:56] <skunkworks> oh
[21:39:59] <JT-Shop> it doesn't seem to change the dro
[21:40:07] <cradek> it shouldn't!
[21:40:08] <skunkworks> never mind then ;)
[21:40:36] <Connor> Yea.. would need something that could execute a keyboard stroke.. or call a axis function after load.
[21:40:44] <cradek> the right fix would be to save the display preference
[21:40:55] <cradek> with some hubris you may be able to set it in your .axisrc
[21:40:59] <cradek> not sure
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[21:48:39] <Connor> yea, what would you put in it for that...
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[21:51:13] <cradek> I agree that is the question
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[21:52:19] <Connor> vars.metric.set(1) for metric
[21:52:24] <Connor> vars.metric.set(0) for inch
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[22:36:41] <andypugh> Is it normal for inductive proximity sensors to come on regardless when you tighten the locknut?
[22:37:00] <andypugh> Or do I have a bad one that I should consider replacing?
[22:37:06] <JT-Shop> like have a mind of their own?
[22:38:24] <tjtr33> like a ferrous nut close to prox?
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[22:38:57] <JT-Shop> a sheilded prox?
[22:39:19] <andypugh> It's a shielded one, embedded in an axis casting. It works as expected unless I tighten the locknut.
[22:39:55] <JT-Shop> that doesn't sound good
[22:40:12] <tjtr33> if its easy to pull out, try to stress it by squeezing in hand
[22:40:56] <andypugh> I may have done a foolish thing. It's a deep hole, and I counterbored it. So tightening the locknut stretches the body a little. But I am not heaving on it like a gorilla.
[22:41:37] <andypugh> (I counterbored it as I didn't want the fun of screwing in 43 turns with a 2m cable getting tangled.
[22:42:22] <JT-Shop> aye they can't take much torque
[22:42:30] <andypugh> I will swap it tomorrow.
[22:42:54] <JT-Shop> you have the funny lockwasher in there?
[22:43:10] <JT-Shop> I almost always use one of the supplied lockwashers
[22:43:22] <andypugh> I am only trying to tighten to "thin walled brass tube won't actually rotate under the weight of the wire" torque.
[22:43:52] <andypugh> And no, I don't have the lockwasher. Not really room.
[22:43:56] <tjtr33> i used 3mm dia in a caxis, and it had a brass tube used to help distribute the sideways dog screw that held it in place ( no thread, Baumer )
[22:44:00] <JT-Shop> ok
[22:44:12] <tjtr33> they had a ceramic substrate, easy to crack
[22:44:35] <andypugh> This was a cheap one, may have left the factory cracked :-)
[22:47:02] <tjtr33> Connor, did you get the dro to startup Inch?
[22:47:09] <tjtr33> i dont even find a .axisrc on my system ( cd installed, also a rip )
[22:47:10] <tjtr33> I tried axis.tcl "set metric 0" ng
[22:47:31] <andypugh> tjtr33: You need to create the .axisrc
[22:47:45] <andypugh> It goes in your home folder
[22:47:59] <tjtr33> doh!
[22:48:32] <andypugh> Apparently the whole of LinuxCNC is internally metric, apart from the Axis UI.
[22:48:32] <tjtr33> does it need a section [units_of_measure_voodoo] ?
[22:49:07] <andypugh> I think that you just need one of those lines of Python that Connor typed.
[22:49:41] <tjtr33> ok, thx. and internal metric is a good idea, 1mm is better rez than 1 inch
[22:50:43] <andypugh> It's all in floating point, 20 digits of precision, the units are irrelevant.
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[22:57:55] <tjtr33> Connor you may not like the side effects, like setting jog increment to .0001 and having to hit 25x to get dro to change 1 unit
[22:58:19] <tjtr33> ^^^ tested
[22:58:50] <tjtr33> and .axisrc deleted
[23:00:12] <Connor> tjtr33: You can specify increments in both imperial and metric.
[23:00:59] <tjtr33> cool, i didnt test much to find that bit, maybe others , anything using linear measure
[23:01:05] <L84Supper> imperial sounds a bit posh or upidy, SAE sounds more agnostic
[23:02:04] <tjtr33> SAE is masonic, secret society with high priced books explaining what should be public domain
[23:02:23] <tjtr33> ;)
[23:03:12] <L84Supper> the queens measurement
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[23:07:07] <Valen> I like to call them english units, especially as the only people to use them are americans
[23:07:14] <Valen> just to irritate the americans ;->
[23:07:38] <L84Supper> http://www.microesys.com/ nice stuff and much better prices than some other popular vendors
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[23:07:44] <Jymmm> Valen: Uh, you're english, we're Americans
[23:08:07] * Valen is Australian
[23:08:29] <Valen> most americans only use english units ;-> you guys are special
[23:08:39] <Jymmm> Valen: No, you're a english prisoner descendant is all
[23:08:52] <Valen> you too it could be argued
[23:09:22] <Jymmm> Nah, we kicked some English butt
[23:09:46] <L84Supper> and uhmerikans is just native American killers
[23:09:54] <andypugh> It's a temporary situation.
[23:10:15] <Valen> I'm not certain, but its possible one of my ancestors was deported for the crime of stealing a bath tub
[23:10:44] <Valen> I have this image of a dude beating feet down the street with a cast iron claw foot tub on his head
[23:10:49] <L84Supper> Valen: were they much lighter in those days?
[23:11:12] <L84Supper> of all the things to steal
[23:11:16] <Valen> much *much* heavier
[23:11:30] <tjtr33> thats how they caught him, he wasnt moving very fast
[23:12:53] <tjtr33> why are so many hi precision tools out north east coast usa? maryland to massachusets? they were good diemakers.
[23:15:02] <L84Supper> http://www.microesys.com/sites/default/files/ChipEncoder-CE300-Data-Sheet.pdf 1um 7 x 11mm encoder
[23:15:36] <tjtr33> that stuff is optical AND is tape !?
[23:16:21] <tjtr33> i gotta stop browsing, bye
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[23:18:28] <Valen> L84Supper: price? price for scales?
[23:19:45] <L84Supper> Valen: scale and read head for ~$100
[23:20:35] <andypugh> L84Supper: Good luck making that 1um target...
[23:21:29] <andypugh> These are physically smaller, but don't claim the same resolutuion.
http://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/rotary-encoders/7160604/
[23:22:09] <L84Supper> how did those work out in your motor?
[23:23:03] <t12> our em's use these
[23:23:07] <t12> http://www.microesys.com/
[23:23:08] <andypugh> The bottom one works well, the top one not at all. I need to try to swap it.
[23:23:37] <andypugh> But I am not well set up for soldering surface-mount with the pads underneath,
[23:24:30] <andypugh> And I have the little blighters on both sides of the PCB.
[23:27:28] <L84Supper> the Siemens NX CAM guys offered to add any configs to their postprocessor "Postbuilder" for Linuxcnc + Mesa
[23:27:54] <andypugh> Does the "Mesa" part matter?
[23:28:16] <L84Supper> not sure how many Linuxcnc users also use NX
[23:29:58] <L84Supper> oh yeah not for LinuxCNC, i was conflating SoftDMC
[23:31:03] <andypugh> I am trying out PyCAM, it looks like it might do what I want.
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[23:33:01] <JT-Shop> dxf to gcode?
[23:34:27] <andypugh> STL to G-code
[23:34:49] <L84Supper> slic3r
[23:35:50] <andypugh> L84Supper: That's for additive, not subtractive?
[23:36:18] <L84Supper> for additive
[23:37:01] <L84Supper> IIRC they were going to add support for milling
[23:37:27] <L84Supper> or maybe that was smoothieware
[23:44:00] <L84Supper> http://3dprintingindustry.com/2013/04/03/filastruder-3d-printing-filament-extruder-hits-130000-at-kickstarter/ another bad filament extruder
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[23:54:34] <coors> hi
[23:56:09] <micges> hi
[23:56:29] <coors> how is it going?
[23:57:13] <coors> do you by any chance have a cnc and a little bit of time? :)
[23:57:26] <JT-Shop> doing good here
[23:57:34] <JT-Shop> up late micges?
[23:57:59] <coors> oh, there is still europeans up?
[23:58:00] <micges> yep, owl programming
[23:58:07] <coors> it's like 2 in the morning, isnt it?
[23:58:16] <micges> yes
[23:58:48] <coors> well, i better not bother you then
[23:59:16] <coors> i'll just wait around until someone wants to tell me a bit about their cnc machine :>
[23:59:28] <jdh> mine is green!
[23:59:32] <JT-Shop> I have two minutes what do you want to know
[23:59:40] <coors> nice :)
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[23:59:56] <coors> basically I am looking for bearing blocks and acme screws
