#linuxcnc | Logs for 2013-03-20

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[01:27:44] <r00t4rd3d> CNC OVER USB!
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[01:37:26] <Tom_itx> usb is too slow
[01:37:32] <Valen> its not too slow
[01:37:36] <Valen> its too jittery
[01:37:45] <Jymmm> Interesting http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k5HffZbeNGk
[01:38:26] <ProxDem> and your claims are based on?
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[01:50:44] <ProxDem> and compared to what? (curiosity)
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[02:09:35] <r00t4rd3d> context?
[02:09:48] <r00t4rd3d> whos claims
[02:12:08] <r00t4rd3d> i need to tear apart my machine again
[02:12:37] <r00t4rd3d> slap on my new z axis :)
[02:13:05] <r00t4rd3d> from 8mm linear rods and pillow blocks to cncrp linear carriages
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[02:13:47] <r00t4rd3d> now my z should be stout enough to cut aluminum decently
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[02:32:18] <ProxDem> < Tom_itx> usb is too slow < Valen> its not too slow < Valen> its too jittery
[02:32:48] <Valen> usb jitter can be over 20msec
[02:33:00] <ProxDem> if you are not sending pulses
[02:33:04] <ProxDem> but sending words
[02:33:07] <ProxDem> shouldn't matter
[02:33:10] <ProxDem> ?
[02:33:12] <Valen> usb speed is 480mbit
[02:33:19] <ProxDem> Valen: that's usb 2.0
[02:33:30] <Valen> even 12mbit, is "fast" enough
[02:33:45] <Valen> but the data takes a long and variable time to get to the drives
[02:34:12] <ProxDem> one wouldn't be pulse driving via USB
[02:34:47] <Valen> if you are using EMC for the servo thread, then it matters
[02:35:01] <ProxDem> shouldn't a board like mesa makes take care of all that
[02:35:05] <Valen> just add 20msec to your latency and see how it works out for a servo system
[02:35:25] <Valen> close the loop, with lots of jitter in it, its not going to work
[02:35:44] <Valen> you come out of a heavy cut, the mill takes off, then 20 msec later you start winding the power down
[02:35:45] <ProxDem> so mesa board don't have the capability to get info on closing the loops themselves?
[02:35:49] <Valen> no
[02:35:58] <Valen> they do, but its not used by EMC
[02:36:02] <ProxDem> ahhh
[02:36:12] <ProxDem> cause that would illiminate the entire problem
[02:37:40] <skunkworks> but caused a whole bunch of others..
[02:39:43] <R2E4_> Hi all
[02:40:15] <Valen> I can see pushing the servo loop into firmware working well
[02:40:30] <Valen> run the servo loop at 10Khz, would be good for linear motors and the like
[02:40:47] <Valen> but it'd be a job to allow EMC to use that
[02:43:22] <R2E4_> So how does EMC close the loop then?
[02:43:25] <ProxDem> skunkworks: if coded well the xilinx FPGA would be way faster then the PC
[02:43:51] <ProxDem> but HDL and VHDL are a pain
[02:44:00] <ProxDem> hi R2E4_
[02:44:30] <R2E4_> howz it going. Howd you like the dumping today. Its still goin on.
[02:45:04] <ProxDem> it's going ok I guess =) yeah the white sh*t is still pooring
[02:45:22] <ProxDem> pouring*....damn can't spell
[02:45:27] <ProxDem> and how are you?
[02:45:31] <Valen> mesa already have software for their fpga boards to do it
[02:45:37] <Valen> EMC just doesn't use it
[02:45:52] <Valen> EMC does the servo loop in software in the aptly named servo thread
[02:50:03] <pcw_home> We have FPGA code that will run PID loops at 100 KHz but its of no use for LinuxCNC
[02:50:58] <Valen> well it could be of use to EMC, but its not used ;-P
[02:51:36] <Valen> I'd love to run my servo thread nice and quick smart with the torqueish mode drive you get from the rest of the chain
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[02:52:17] <pcw_home> LInuxCNC has all real time code in one place, if real time code is scattered (and uses non real time links like USB)
[02:52:18] <pcw_home> you have a much uglier and less flexible control model
[02:52:25] <Err> pcw_home: so what is that normally used for? can you set an acceptable error term, and then the FPGA just interrupts if the error term is exceeded?
[02:53:08] <pcw_home> Its a complete multi axis motion system
[02:53:59] <Valen> it could replace everything after the planner pretty much?
[02:54:52] <pcw_home> For machine tools, unless you are doing something exotic you are going to have diminishing returns above 4 KHZ or so so for LInuxCNC theres not much point
[02:55:21] * Valen is damn exotic
[02:55:41] <Err> does Mesa have complete motion control IP, then, for non-LinuxCNC applications?
[02:56:32] <pcw_home> Mhaberlers separation of the real time bits into MachineKit will probably allow 10-20KHz servo thread systems and still have HAL
[02:57:23] <pcw_home> Yes we have SoftDMC which is a complete (if simple) up to 8 axis servo motion contrlloer
[02:57:23] <Valen> thats seperate from your ZYNQ yes?
[02:57:39] <Valen> machinekit that is
[02:58:17] <Valen> hmmm, how many I/O's will there be on your ZYNQ?
[02:58:27] <pcw_home> I expect that the ZYNQ would be an ideal machinkit target
[02:58:37] <Valen> I have an application that needs an assload and a half of PWMs
[02:58:47] <pcw_home> 7010 has 100 I/O
[02:59:05] <Valen> dang, I'm around 150
[02:59:08] <pcw_home> (FPGA I/O processor I/O is separate)
[02:59:25] <pcw_home> use a 3X20 (144)
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[03:01:10] <L84Supper> pcw_home: can you use any of the IO configured as LVDS on the ZYNQ board?
[03:01:18] <pcw_home> Yes
[03:02:00] <pcw_home> I think just about all of it is LVDS pairs
[03:02:01] <Valen> hmm, could work
[03:02:57] <Err> if your PWM isn't very fast, I wouldn't think you would need LVDS (which could double your pin density)
[03:03:00] <L84Supper> looks like it could be used as a printhead controller
[03:03:49] <pcw_home> Yeah dual GigE, and very fast CPU-FPGA connection
[03:04:04] <L84Supper> all it might need is a 150VDC programmable pulse generator with adjustable slew ~40V/uS
[03:04:29] <Valen> I'm running an array of piezo's they want about 300hz movement on the output
[03:04:49] <Err> heh, that's a serious pulse generator
[03:05:42] <Err> (assuming you're driving any sort of load at that slew rate)
[03:06:06] <L84Supper> yeah, but it only needs to fire up to ~60khz
[03:07:11] <L84Supper> ~150 pF load
[03:08:26] <L84Supper> 200pF max
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[03:13:01] <L84Supper> an industrial inkjet printhead controller starts at ~$200K, so this could potentially upset quite a few people if LinuxCNC suddenly had support for them
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[03:13:55] <Valen> would need hacking on emc to get it to output like that
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[03:14:11] <Valen> it'd probably be simpler to just roll your own firmware
[03:14:24] <Valen> unless you are saying to XYZ control the head as well as print
[03:17:29] <L84Supper> yeah, the heads or the substrate moves, it all has to be coordinated
[03:18:18] <Valen> it'd make laser rastering easier too ;->
[03:19:06] <Err> L84Supper: out of curiosity, what is such a printhead used for?
[03:20:10] <L84Supper> Err: it usually an array, and it could be a wide format inkjet printer for posters/banners or used for materials deposition...
[03:20:27] <L84Supper> printed electronics, 3d printing etc etc
[03:20:45] <Err> OK, so you mean the controller *design* has that value - not that every instance of one costs that much
[03:20:52] <Err> (or am I mis-understanding?)
[03:21:53] <L84Supper> no, an actual controller lists for $200K and up, if you want to build a custom printer
[03:22:28] <L84Supper> complete inkjet printers are sold for less, but then you only get what they have configured
[03:23:19] <Err> OK, sure, I understand what you're saying
[03:23:26] <Err> I've never tried to build a printer from scratch :-)
[03:27:46] <L84Supper> http://imagebin.org/250942 the printhead controller is on the right
[03:28:39] <Err> wow
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[03:28:44] <Err> that's an impressive piece of kit
[03:29:35] <L84Supper> the PC under the table has two servo amps and some mesa boards inside the case
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[03:44:01] <tjtr33> hello, what does the IM mean in some Mesa bit file names, like SV12IM_2X7I48_72.BIT ?
[03:46:39] <pcw_home> Index mask
[03:48:04] <tjtr33> hey thx, and what are the references to (tbl3) and (tbl5) ? stepping types?
[03:48:47] <tjtr33> http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/drivers/hostmot2.html
[03:51:18] <pcw_home> tbl?
[03:52:36] <tjtr33> i dunno the indo on hostmot2 shows some stepgens wiht a thing that looks like a footnote saying (tbl3) and a few more with (tbl5)
[03:52:49] <tjtr33> could be a funny font, but i think its an 'el'
[03:52:53] <pcw_home> Oh the stepgen hardware has a 6 wide 16 deep table for output sequence options but its remains unsupported by LinuxCNC
[03:53:20] <tjtr33> great thx
[03:53:39] <pcw_home> (so TBL0 - step TBL1 = DIR TBL2..5 are unused)
[03:53:53] <tjtr33> i finally got the entire 14.4 xilink tutor to run, was hell, not too much patching.
[03:54:35] <tjtr33> big trick is... install full linux single download ( NOT webpack), then use webpack license... you get all the gooodies then
[03:55:06] <tjtr33> some fonts, a couple libs, and hack up a desktop lawnchair in dufus unuity
[03:55:09] <pcw_home> right webpack is just a license option
[03:55:36] <tjtr33> >that< is very not intuitive thing to do :)
[03:56:03] <pcw_home> I don't think I've ever installed successfully except via DVD
[03:56:50] <tjtr33> but it runs now, will try to build a stock bit file and begin one of the books Chu
[03:57:38] <tjtr33> i'd like to add a precision timer in the unused gates on my 5i20
[03:58:09] <tjtr33> so getting the IP cores was a good thing
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[03:59:20] <pcw_home> You can actually do that with just the stepgen (set for a reasonable rate)
[04:01:40] <tjtr33> ummm, a programmable pulse is more exact description, on time & off time independantly programmable
[04:02:10] <tjtr33> 1uS rez, from 1 to say 4092 each? that possible, as is?
[04:02:51] <tjtr33> 1uS ... i dotn think thats 'reasonable' huh?
[04:03:10] <pcw_home> single pulse or rate?
[04:03:37] <tjtr33> indiv pairs, like one trigger cause 1 on followed by 1 off followed by wait for the trigger
[04:04:08] <tjtr33> the wait may be 1uS tho
[04:04:13] <tjtr33> as little as
[04:05:58] <pcw_home> that would probably need custom hardware but should be simple
[04:06:00] <pcw_home> (If you use normal 5I20 HS clock= 100 MHz you could have delays from 10 ns to ~40 seconds is 10 ns steps with a 32 bit time register)
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[04:07:04] <tjtr33> yes in the tutor examples i was seeing it could be 'damn' fast, and figgered a clock and some counters, maybe scaling the clock
[04:07:18] <tjtr33> cuz i dont need the fine rez at the higher values
[04:07:45] <pcw_home> but a 32 bit register is not a big deal
[04:08:07] <pcw_home> bbl leepy...
[04:08:46] <tjtr33> thx, gnite
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[07:29:32] <LeelooMinai> I am lllokinf for some freenode channel that would have people that built DIY CNCs. Any pointer?
[07:30:32] <archivist> plenty in here have built their own cnc
[07:31:23] <LeelooMinai> Well, but the name and description suggests it's about linux CNC software. I am looking more for building oriented channel.
[07:32:50] <archivist> not sure there is one, building gets discussed as well in here, but we will laugh at attempts to use arduinos and mach
[07:33:36] <LeelooMinai> I am not that naive:)
[07:34:26] <LeelooMinai> Well, I guess I will sit around for few days and see how it goes here.
[07:36:22] <LeelooMinai> Though since this is for sure on topic, is this Mach software for some reson considered bad here?
[07:36:46] <LeelooMinai> I have seen it mentioned many times in CNC context.
[07:37:34] <archivist> it is commercial software that has certain difficulties with threading on a lathe
[07:38:29] <LeelooMinai> Ok, but wouldn't it be a bit exotic in CNC context? Most DIY ppeople just want 3 axis machines
[07:41:34] <LeelooMinai> I want to build a cnc machine and I try to gather information and plan something that I can get right the first time. I was watching this guy's videos mostly: http://www.youtube.com/user/radioshack7
[07:43:00] <LeelooMinai> Because I more or less plan to build something what he did: aluminum construction from extrusions, with moving gantery (I think it's called that) and a ballscrew/linear set from China (aliexpress)
[07:43:09] <LeelooMinai> gantry*
[07:44:43] <LeelooMinai> I don't want to buy "kits" as most of them are not alu or they are much more expensive than buying basic construction parts and cuttong them at home.
[07:45:09] <LeelooMinai> Well, anyways, that's my "story" as to searching for cnc channel.
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[08:01:20] <DJ9DJ> moin
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[09:51:43] <alex_joni> LeelooMinai: Mach and linuxcnc share some original code (developed by NIST)
[09:52:00] <alex_joni> Mach went it's own way - commercial, on windows with the platforms problems, etc
[09:52:36] <alex_joni> but for a 3-axis CNC there isn't really anything you get from Mach that you don't get from lcnc
[09:53:12] <alex_joni> but ultimately it's a decision of personal preferences.. so people who want windows/commercial app go with Mach, people who are ok with linux and OSS go with lcnc
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[09:54:00] <alex_joni> also Mach doesn't really do servos well, besides other realtime inputs (for threading - be it on lathes or mills)
[09:55:25] <LeelooMinai> O, ok, I think I get the picture now, thx
[09:57:24] <alex_joni> I mean tapping on mills ;)
[09:57:37] <alex_joni> as in rigid tapping, not using a tapping head
[09:57:47] <alex_joni> there are certainly other differences as well
[09:58:14] <alex_joni> one of the reasons people use Mach is that they provide a screen designer, which allows people to build all kind of nutty displays :D
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[10:02:04] <archivist> but you can create nutty displays with linuxcnc too
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[10:16:10] <r00t4rd3d> ive never tried mach
[10:17:15] <archivist> nor me but have met that Brian person who bough it from Art
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[10:18:44] <LeelooMinai> http://www.ebay.ca/itm/SBG20FL-280mm-SBC-Used-LM-Guide-Linear-Bearing-HSR20A-CNC-Route-2Rail-2Block-/200899198697?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2ec6867ee9&_uhb=1#ht_1515wt_1163
[10:18:55] <LeelooMinai> Would used part like this be better than those new Chinese ones?
[10:19:18] <r00t4rd3d> those are expensive
[10:20:11] <LeelooMinai> I mean in general - say some used THK part vs new Chinese ones that are sold on aliexpress
[10:20:33] <r00t4rd3d> i wouldnt buy anything from aliexpress
[10:20:34] <LeelooMinai> ?
[10:20:53] <LeelooMinai> CNC-wise or in general?
[10:21:12] <r00t4rd3d> in general
[10:21:23] <LeelooMinai> I bought from there and never had problems
[10:21:24] <r00t4rd3d> i can find free junk in the street
[10:21:59] <r00t4rd3d> if you build a cnc with pos parts, you will have a pos cnc
[10:22:00] <archivist> those rails are nice but a bit short
[10:22:08] <LeelooMinai> E, that's prejudice:)
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[10:22:40] <LeelooMinai> http://www.aliexpress.com/item/3-SBR16-sets-3-ballscrews-RM1605-3BK-BF12-3-couplers/567215673.html
[10:22:50] <LeelooMinai> Is such a set very bad?
[10:24:00] <archivist> I would not spend that much when they are too lazy to give specifications
[10:24:14] <r00t4rd3d> 1300mm
[10:25:50] <LeelooMinai> archivist: I thought that's the bottom price
[10:26:12] <LeelooMinai> One can hope to find
[10:26:41] <r00t4rd3d> just buy a cncrp kit
[10:26:59] <r00t4rd3d> http://www.cncrouterparts.com/crp2448-2-x-4-cnc-router-kit-p-164.html
[10:27:05] <LeelooMinai> Kits are expensive from what I have seen for what they provide
[10:27:50] <r00t4rd3d> like everything else, you get what you pay for.
[10:27:57] <archivist> I tend to get second hand stuff to get cheap
[10:28:14] <LeelooMinai> It's a bit of risk though
[10:28:29] <LeelooMinai> That kit is $2k - not exactly cheap
[10:29:14] <archivist> and I use scrap metal/machines(or parts of) to build up onto
[10:29:53] <LeelooMinai> I don't have access to "scrap" though
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[10:31:33] <archivist> can be found on ebay/craigslist as well as at scrap yards
[10:32:07] <archivist> or closing down auctions/sales
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[11:15:23] <ReadError> r00t4rd3d: any word on aspire 4?
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[11:22:14] <R2E4_> Aspire 4 is great!!!
[11:24:09] <R2E4_> how long are those ball screws?
[11:29:32] <mazafaka> For what money can I buy a lathe capable to cut steel, small amount per once?
[11:29:40] <mazafaka> 4K?
[11:31:12] <archivist> how can we know your local prices for second hand lathes
[11:32:01] <mazafaka> there are only big in size lathes, I ask about ebay maybe
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[11:36:56] <mazafaka> What do you think of Proma SKF-800? Not CNC, but capable to help to save money.
[11:37:51] <jthornton> I sold one once for $150
[11:39:28] <R2E4_> Got this one for free. http://www.irmtl.com/LinuxCNC/R2E4/r2e4-2.jpg
[11:39:35] <R2E4_> There's deals, keep looking
[11:39:49] <mazafaka> where can I take one?
[11:40:39] <R2E4_> Where are you located?
[11:41:01] <mazafaka> Russia
[11:41:26] <mazafaka> I mean, what is a way to find one for moderate price?
[11:41:31] <R2E4_> I would look in Russia then.
[11:41:58] <mazafaka> this couldd be one way
[11:42:03] <R2E4_> look locally for machine shops. Go in and talk to them. look in classifieds
[11:42:25] <R2E4_> do they have a Russia.craigslist.com?
[11:42:42] <mazafaka> They all work on really old machines/
[11:43:56] <R2E4_> old machines are great....
[11:44:03] <mazafaka> nothing to buy from them
[11:44:13] <DJ9DJ> old machines are solid :D
[11:44:20] <DJ9DJ> russian machines are even more solid ;)
[11:44:32] <R2E4_> http://www.irmtl.com/LinuxCNC/R2E4/r2e4-2.jpg 1965 colchester student. Could run it over with a nmac truck and it wouild dent the truck.
[11:44:51] <mazafaka> yeah, made of iron, but they are not in good shape
[11:45:01] <R2E4_> repair them.
[11:45:59] <mazafaka> R2E4 I can not repair their rails, and I can not bring them to work, it is banned.
[11:46:28] <mazafaka> they are worn off, but gears are in normal shape
[11:46:38] <mazafaka> bearings are not
[11:47:54] <R2E4_> Your going to pay for a perfect machine.....
[11:47:58] <archivist> my southbend came home for £125 iirc
[11:48:30] <archivist> my Shaublin came home free
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[11:49:05] <mazafaka> Oh, CJ 0623 for 1K can be useful
[11:49:50] <mazafaka> R2E4 perfect machine which can not keep the diameter of the detail
[11:50:31] <mazafaka> I mean those old worn off lathes, no one even about to sell them, they stay in shops
[11:50:51] <mazafaka> I will plan to buy one.
[11:51:02] <mazafaka> new and 'weak' lathe
[11:51:04] <archivist> they dont stay in shops when the go bankrupt
[11:53:24] <mazafaka> archivist: well, in Russia they go into garages of other people for free
[11:53:56] <mazafaka> archivist: what if I put CJ 0623 in home, will it produce a lot of vibration?
[11:54:17] <R2E4_> Just like the one I got for free. Get to know some people, get out and mingle with shopsters.
[11:56:43] <mazafaka> R2E4 maybe, maybe, but you do not read words 'worn off' completely. Due to each day work. Russia is poor, and there are no unused, or used moderately equipment.
[11:58:47] <mazafaka> This could be a way, but... The fact no one does so says something.
[12:00:03] <archivist> my lathes are worn! it does not matter when cheap
[12:00:56] <archivist> a worn lathe can still produce good work in the right hands
[12:02:12] <archivist> 1956 worn lathe http://www.collection.archivist.info/searchv13.php?searchstr=pendulum+cast
[12:03:08] <toastydeath> american lathes from the big names can take a huge beating and still be damn good machines
[12:03:42] <toastydeath> and also the british lathes like monarch and leblond
[12:04:48] <R2E4_> My R2E4 I am working on is wired for 460v. IF I want 220 3 phase in I would have to rewire the trannies correct?
[12:06:02] <R2E4_> how do they do a taper like that on a manual mill?
[12:06:10] <R2E4_> manual lathe I mean
[12:07:18] <archivist> either set the top slide at an angle or have a taper turning attachment
[12:08:08] <archivist> that was top slide, I have the taper turning attachment for the lathe but it is incomplete
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[12:20:25] <mazafaka> archivist: railings are worn off, *VERY* I worked on such. And finding normal ones will consume daytime during the working days...
[12:21:19] <mazafaka> R2E4 I don't know, if we have 220 2-phase and had to connect 380 3-phase, we loose torque and spinning direction can be different.
[12:22:51] <mazafaka> used lathe here, can consume money. with necessary habitl, weak lathe can be useful, too.
[12:23:48] <R2E4_> mazafaka: no it is wired for 460 3 phase and I want 220 3 phase
[12:24:23] <mazafaka> i don't know, again, time and money-consuming
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[12:34:52] <cncinator> hello
[12:38:59] <cncinator> i followed gnipsels tutorial on how to setup a simple gladeUI, but when i attach the pins to hal, i get error: "custom.hal:1: Pin 'gladevcp1.hal_led1' does not exist"
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[12:45:31] <cncinator> is it may cause i created it initial with stepconf?
[12:50:24] <JT-Shop> what file name do you have in your ini for your postgui hal file?
[12:52:04] <cncinator> gladevcp1.ini
[12:52:12] <cncinator> oh sry, wait
[12:52:36] <cncinator> POSTGUI_HALFILE = custom_postgui.hal
[12:54:04] <JT-Shop> did you put the postgui stuff in the custom_postgui.hal file?
[12:54:49] <cncinator> i put it in the custom.hal file
[12:56:46] <cncinator> ok, now im gettin custom_postgui.hal:5: Pin 'motion.spindle-speed-out' was already linked to signal 'spindle-cmd'
[12:58:29] <JT-Shop> change the net in the postgui hal file to net spindle-cmd gladevcp.hal_meter1
[13:02:25] <cncinator> it starts now, but no reaction of the tacho
[13:02:38] <cncinator> had homed, m03, s500
[13:02:47] <skunkworks> hey - you had this working alread... :)
[13:03:12] <cncinator> yes its still working skunk, but not the glade thing
[13:04:01] <cncinator> created a new machine with stepconf to setup glade for further personal requirments
[13:06:11] <skunkworks> neat
[13:08:49] <cncinator> noobish xD
[13:09:55] <cncinator> signal index and phase-a works, but now reaction of the widget
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[13:11:05] <cncinator> *no reaction
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[13:12:37] <JT-Shop> look at gladevcp.hal_meter1 in the show hal configuration watch window
[13:13:09] <cncinator> skunkworks, im allready using a hall sensor (bashers idea) to catch up the stock 45gears on my lathespindle, works fine :>
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[13:15:00] <cncinator> 0 gladevcp.hal_meter1
[13:17:30] <cncinator> gladevcp.hal_meter1 <
[13:17:37] <cncinator> == spindle-cmd
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[13:19:55] <JT-Shop> look in Signals and see what is connected to spindle-cmd
[13:20:09] <cncinator> i tried "net spindle-cmd gladevcp(!!!!!)1(!!!!!).hal_meter1" but that gives error: pin does not exist
[13:21:25] <cncinator> net spindle-cmd gladevcp1.hal_meter1
[13:21:33] <cncinator> sry
[13:21:46] <cncinator> spindle-cmd ==> gladevcp.hal_meter1
[13:22:06] <cncinator> spindle-cmd <== motion.spindle-speed-out
[13:22:10] <cncinator> those 2
[13:22:48] <JT-Shop> are you running the spindle with M3 S some number?
[13:23:04] <cncinator> im running the spindle with a poti
[13:23:33] <JT-Shop> if LinuxCNC is not in control of the spindle then the meter will not work
[13:24:04] <cncinator> oh... so now feedback? even if i have index and phase-a?
[13:24:43] <JT-Shop> http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/html/examples/spindle.html
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[14:14:59] <R2E4> .
[14:15:49] <DJ9DJ> :
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[14:26:10] <L84Supper> http://www.cnccontrols.com/ "CamSoft is the MOST CONFIGURABLE system on the market" as long as you don't need source :)
[14:26:40] <R2E4> They quoted me 5000.00 for just the controller card and software
[14:26:50] <jdh> so there are millions of ways for you to screw up a config?
[14:27:38] <Vq> jdh: Millions is pretty low from my perspective.
[14:28:16] <cradek> but when you pay $5000 you get lock-in and subservience for free!
[14:29:13] <Vq> I know a guy who can kick me in the face for half of that.
[14:29:17] <R2E4> no, instead I get to rack my brain trying to figure this out, and maybe it will work.
[14:29:54] <jdh> http://www.cnccontrols.com/ttfengraver.asp
[14:29:59] <jdh> only $200
[14:30:32] <L84Supper> same for the raster2vector package http://www.cnccontrols.com/raster2vector.asp
[14:30:45] <jdh> wrap an ugly gui around TTT and you could make millions!
[14:31:03] <cncinator> how do i set the size of the bar where my glade widgets are in?
[14:31:15] <jdh> I might actually pay something for a decent raster to vector app
[14:31:38] <cradek> jdh: gnu autotrace worked great last time I tried it (10 yrs ago??)
[14:32:06] <jdh> cool, didn't know that existed
[14:32:26] <R2E4> cradek: In the card cage there is an interface board that terminates from the controller.
[14:32:47] <R2E4> I should be able to just use inpuyt into that board from the 7i77
[14:41:01] <cradek> have you seen if the machine works yet?
[14:44:22] <R2E4> no, I am working on seeing how to convert it from 460 3phase to 220 single phase
[14:44:48] <R2E4> Otherwise I would have to get atransformer for 600 down to 460
[14:45:26] <cradek> you have 600 3phase service?
[14:45:32] <R2E4> yes
[14:45:41] <cradek> surely that'd be easier
[14:46:14] <R2E4> I have a vfd for the spindle, I am looking at changing the taps on the input trannies. I think thats all it takes
[14:46:27] <cradek> for which?
[14:46:35] <R2E4> 220
[14:46:54] <R2E4> Or research a 600v3p stepdown to 460 3p
[14:46:55] <cradek> you can't put single phase into a 3phase transformer
[14:47:52] <R2E4> These machine were designed for 220 or 4603p no?
[14:48:14] <cradek> 208/240/480 3phase probably
[14:48:46] <cradek> you're the one with the machine, have a look :-)
[14:49:55] <R2E4> I'm at work,
[14:50:28] <cradek> aha
[14:50:49] <R2E4> So I would definately need 600 to 460 tranny
[14:51:36] <R2E4> Those things are expensive
[14:52:47] <R2E4> need to find how much va these thing s draw
[14:54:03] <cradek> yeah looking at surplus, 600v-in looks rare
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[14:58:48] <R2E4> The 220 3p would be for the spindle.
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[14:59:00] <R2E4> I have a vfd so i shouldnt need the 3 phase
[14:59:25] <cradek> dc bus, not the spindle, is the hard part
[14:59:55] <R2E4> Yes but it only gets fed with 115vac and 70vac
[15:03:54] <mazafaka> toastydeath: I just wanted to say that rails of support are worn off. Notheing else can really prevent from obtaining quite fine tolerances. That's because no one at all is buying new machines, all old are in use.
[15:04:23] <toastydeath> what's the free path error
[15:04:57] <toastydeath> you can have pretty worn ways on a lathe and it doesn't affect the accuracy that much
[15:06:45] <cradek> I got tired of looking before I found a 600v-in at hgr
[15:07:01] <R2E4> hehe
[15:07:11] <cradek> they could sure use a better search
[15:07:40] <R2E4> They are pricey probably. I can just use the three phase trannies and rewire them.
[15:07:52] <R2E4> and use just one phase.
[15:08:06] <cradek> ??
[15:08:37] <cradek> what do you mean?
[15:08:44] <R2E4> What? a three phase transformer is thre single phase trannies wired together basically
[15:08:55] <pcw_home> Not really
[15:09:16] <R2E4> no?
[15:09:17] <cradek> no no no
[15:09:23] <cradek> it will melt
[15:09:33] <pcw_home> (and you will find this out if you try)
[15:09:41] <R2E4> if you only use one winding how is it going to melt?
[15:09:42] <cradek> yes you will know immediately
[15:09:51] <cradek> not enough iron in it
[15:10:06] <pcw_home> it will look like a dead short on the line
[15:11:51] <pcw_home> The iron thinks its a 180 Hz transformer (its shared by all phases)
[15:13:13] <R2E4> So it seemsmy choices are: 1. buy a 5 million dollar 600v3p to 460v3p transformer or provide 220 single ph to vfd for sindle and provide the neccesary 115 vac circuits to the electronics and a 70vac tranny.
[15:13:29] <cradek> yes
[15:13:51] <cradek> except I'd expect to pay $300, not $5000000 for the transformer
[15:13:56] <R2E4> or try and build a melting [ot..;..:-)
[15:14:09] <R2E4> melting pot
[15:14:27] <cradek> are you talking about getting the old control to run, or what you'll do for the retrofit?
[15:14:32] <R2E4> thats not bad, I thought it would be more.
[15:15:43] <R2E4> Thats the problem. If I do purchase the 600v tranny and get everything powered and find the controls not working, I would have lost the 300.00. I guess thats not too bad
[15:15:51] <R2E4> still not ideal
[15:16:17] <cradek> well you'll need the same power after the retrofit too
[15:17:02] <mozmck> R2E4: is it just the motor that is 460V?
[15:17:09] <R2E4> depends, if the bridgeport drivers are not working, then I buy new ones wont need the power
[15:17:41] <cradek> mozmck: his building's power is 600, and the bp needs 480/240/208
[15:17:46] <R2E4> The motor I can drop to 220 no problem, its the 3phase issue
[15:18:12] <cradek> in a 600v building I'd look around and expect to find some transformers I could borrow :-)
[15:18:14] <mozmck> 600V? where are you?
[15:18:26] <R2E4> Canada
[15:20:04] <mozmck> interesting
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[15:20:49] <mozmck> I wonder if you can use 2 or 3 single phase transformers to step down 3 phase?
[15:21:38] <cradek> I think you could, but single phase transformers are expensive and big
[15:22:52] <R2E4> http://ontario.kijiji.ca/c-buy-and-sell-business-industrial-JVC-Machine-Transformer-600V-W0QQAdIdZ465263825
[15:24:09] <R2E4> Dont think i'll need 50KVA
[15:24:13] <cradek> heh no
[15:26:43] <R2E4> 460 hard to find. I could rewire input to 220 3ph though
[15:27:55] <r00t4rd3d> just tap off your neighbor
[15:28:26] <r00t4rd3d> run a extension cord
[15:28:53] <mozmck> I've picked up transformers at auctions for next to nothing. I have a couple of big ones that are odd, 210V to 200V, 5kw or so
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[15:29:31] <r00t4rd3d> amazing you guys need that much power
[15:29:53] <mozmck> R2E4: do you have 220V single phase? It's pretty easy to make a single to 3-phase generator out of an old 3-phase motor.
[15:29:58] <r00t4rd3d> I run my whole garage off 1 power strip
[15:30:38] <mozmck> r00t4rd3d: I don't use those transformers - I just have them because they came free with something else.
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[15:32:32] <R2E4> I dont think I will be going down that route
[15:33:12] <JT-Shop> dang I ordered some Fogg Toggs a couple of hours ago and just got the UPS shipping conformation... that is quick
[15:33:21] <r00t4rd3d> i dont need a fork lift and flatbed to move my machine either
[15:33:38] <mozmck> I don't have 3-phase available, so that's how I get it. I have one 7hp motor that runs all the 3-phase stuff I have.
[15:33:52] <pcw_home> What actually needs 460V on the machine? just spindle? or servo DC PS
[15:34:17] <R2E4> just the spindle. I can rewire the trannies
[15:34:28] <R2E4> for the 220 taps
[15:35:04] <R2E4> I have a vfd for the spindle so I dont even need that. I could just get a 220 3p stepdwon
[15:36:44] <pcw_home> If you are not running the spindle the 220 usage should be pretty small certainly not more than 3-5 KVA
[15:39:40] <R2E4> Actually, I only need 115 vac and 90 vac to run the machine. 115 in vfd for spindle, and bypass the trannies and supply 115 vac then a stepdown to90 or 70 vac whichever it is to the drive power supply.
[15:40:53] <pcw_home> Did the original servo power supply use a 3 phase transformer?
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[15:43:26] <R2E4> the input trannies were 3 phase, the drive power supply uses a tap off of one of the input trannies, 90vac off one tranny and 115 off another input tranny. The input transformers are 3phase
[15:44:14] <cradek> I don't think you can run a 2 or 3hp motor with a 115v-in vfd
[15:44:25] <R2E4> I am just reading now the T2 input tranny is a single phase input tranny
[15:44:38] <R2E4> it is 220 single phase in vfd
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[15:44:46] <R2E4> my mistake if I wrote 115
[15:44:52] <cradek> oh ok, I agree those do exist :-)
[15:44:59] <pcw_home> If the servo DC PS is 3 phase input you will need to keep it 3 phase
[15:46:04] <R2E4> http://igor.chudov.com/manuals/Bridgeport/BOSS/R2E4/Chapter-4.pdf This is saying the T2 steps the line down to 155 single phase.
[15:47:56] <cradek> yes if I remember right, the 115 is a tiny single phase transformer that only runs the outlet on the side for a work light or something
[15:48:31] <R2E4> yes there some outlets there, but from two seperate 1150 sources(trannies)
[15:49:11] <R2E4> single phase distribution.
[15:50:19] <R2E4> So I can get away with 220 single phase and 115 vac supply from what i see.
[15:52:24] <pcw_home> Yes other than spindle power looks like just 220 single phase do
[15:52:55] <pcw_home> (that also show the axis enable logic which is valuable)
[15:53:17] <cradek> on the r2e3 the dc bus xformer was definitely 3ph
[15:55:31] <pcw_home> Oh, so thats the question, is T2 a three phase or single phase transformer
[15:56:37] <cradek> http://irmtl.com/LinuxCNC/R2E4/controller_maybe.JPG
[15:57:06] <cradek> suspect T2 is the big one
[15:57:13] <cradek> which is definitely 3ph
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[15:58:48] <pcw_home> That looks single phase to me
[15:59:14] <pcw_home> only one magnetic circuit
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[15:59:23] <cradek> hmm maybe you're right
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[15:59:51] <cradek> I keep expecting the r2e4 to be like the r2e3 but there's no reason to think it needs to be
[16:00:24] <R2E4> its single phase
[16:00:41] <cradek> haha guess which one is T2: http://timeguy.com/cradek-files//emc/bridgeport-r2e3/imag0140.jpg
[16:01:09] <pcw_home> fairly clear
[16:01:11] <R2E4> It R2E4 has an R2E3 in it. the 4 is just the crt from what I understand
[16:01:28] <cradek> no, comparing with my photos, they're quite different
[16:01:33] <R2E4> but yours looks nothing like mine
[16:01:43] <cradek> but that's what I thought too, though
[16:02:05] <R2E4> it may be different boss versions and years they changed. What year is yours?
[16:02:18] <pcw_home> so if you have 220 single phase you should be set
[16:02:24] <R2E4> I took a boat load of pics last night
[16:02:51] <cradek> R2E4: not sure.
[16:03:31] <R2E4> It has to be years apart cause my axis drive setup is way different than yours.
[16:05:31] <cradek> I have a photo of the back plate but it doesn't have a year. I think I remember 85 but no way to be sure.
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[16:08:58] <R2E4> All my manuals have 84 on them. I have the original bill to the school date 1985
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[17:00:50] <R2E4> pics of my machine closeups
[17:00:54] <R2E4> http://irmtl.com/galleries/flashgallery.html
[17:02:29] <R2E4> theose three connectors in the card in the cage left sction on the right are the inputs from the controller, which I will need to remove and put the wires from the 7i77
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[17:04:34] <R2E4> DSC_143 is the power distribution and the two transformers are there.
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[17:08:30] <archivist> ew flash
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[17:24:20] <R2E4> where
[17:25:09] <R2E4> http://irmtl.com/galleries/img/ no flash...
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[18:11:36] <IchGuckLive> Hi all B)
[18:12:13] <R2E4> hiya Ich
[18:21:06] <IchGuckLive> plasma post optimizer finished within the ninute Rhino2plasma
[18:21:34] <IchGuckLive> tkinter axis converter dialog
[18:22:01] <IchGuckLive> its great to got the python tool inside axis
[18:25:30] <JT-Shop> cool
[18:25:59] <IchGuckLive> JT-Shop: YOU O.O
[18:27:09] <IchGuckLive> @ all do you guys hafe alot fancy g-code to be scaled without cadCAm
[18:27:59] <IchGuckLive> so i will get the python g-code scaler inide simple files
[18:28:34] <IchGuckLive> i think i also need a ofsetter to be implemented to this
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[18:30:55] <cpresser_> IchGuckLive: http://code.google.com/p/grecode/
[18:32:28] <IchGuckLive> The outputed gcode needs to be validated by YOU. The software is not perfect, and I am not liable to any harm or damage done by defective gcode!
[18:32:32] <IchGuckLive> O.O B)
[18:33:32] <IchGuckLive> cpresser_: lets test it with 15k lines
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[18:34:35] * cpresser_ used it with 1.2M lines already
[18:34:39] <IchGuckLive> oh its in c not python
[18:35:03] <IchGuckLive> ah
[18:35:27] <IchGuckLive> give me a hint on compiling gcc...
[18:36:02] <cpresser_> hint: dont
[18:36:06] <cpresser_> get a binary package
[18:36:15] <IchGuckLive> ubuntu
[18:36:32] <andypugh> Yeah, compiling a compiler is always going to be a problem.
[18:36:54] <IchGuckLive> there is a makefile
[18:40:31] <IchGuckLive> " make" O.O
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[18:44:29] <IchGuckLive> works fine
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[19:23:29] <L84Supper> anyone have a favorite strobe light for imaging high speed spindles?
[19:24:55] <pcw_home> a 30W or so blue/green LED shoud do a fair job for a few bucks
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[19:45:58] <pcw_home> even 10 usec @ 60kRPM would be .6W in to http://dx.com/p/60w-470nm-1000lm-led-emitter-metal-plate-blue-30-36v-54395
[19:46:00] <pcw_home> so should be fairly visable
[19:47:54] <pcw_home> Not sure how much you can overdrive blue LEDs when you have low duty cycle drive but you may be able to get a little more
[19:52:49] <pcw_home> the hm2 stepgen +MOSFET would be a good rate /pulse generator
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[20:41:19] <mrsun> how the heck do they combat shrink cavities etc in huge castings ... say like a milling machine base its quite big .. or is it just thin walled all over? :)
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[20:42:04] <mrsun> http://www.impco-inc.com/sites/default/files/large_casting_600.jpg something like that
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[20:48:16] <andypugh> mrsun: Big feeders.
[20:48:47] <mrsun> and thinking of my exes fathers job .. where they pour like 50 - 60 ton pieces ... :P
[20:49:17] <mrsun> feels like it would be frekkin impossible to control the cooling so that it wouldnt make tares etc in the castings :P
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[21:57:45] <skunkworks> andypugh: did you get a chance to troubleshoot your bldc?
[21:58:16] <andypugh> Yes, and no.
[21:58:32] <andypugh> The PSU blew up, so I am waiting for parts.
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[21:59:51] <Tom_itx> did you figure out what caused it?
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[22:04:50] <andypugh> Yes, the rectifier was shorted to neutral.
[22:05:20] <andypugh> So, one diode wasn't a diode.
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[22:06:07] <Tom_itx> internal short?
[22:06:15] <Tom_itx> nothing that could have been prevented...
[22:06:29] <andypugh> Well, I could have used a bigger rectifier.
[22:06:41] <andypugh> It was only a 10A device, on the far side of a 32A breaker.
[22:06:45] <Tom_itx> oh
[22:06:52] <Tom_itx> i used 25A on mine i think
[22:07:11] <andypugh> I have a 35A 1000V one on the way.
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[22:07:29] <andypugh> (400 and 600V were out of stock, and only pennies cheaper)
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[22:15:11] <andypugh> I'll be glad to get this out of my workshop: https://plus.google.com/photos/108164504656404380542/albums/5854209973166221953/5857551712155586066?banner=pwa
[22:15:58] <DJ9DJ> gn8
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[22:24:22] <skunkworks> work bench top?
[22:25:48] <andypugh> It's desk for a friend. It's a bit exotic for a workbench :-)
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[22:26:06] <andypugh> I think the wood (Oak) was £250
[22:26:21] <skunkworks> heh -
[22:26:34] * skunkworks loves that we have a sawmill...
[22:28:46] <andypugh> I wouldn't have paid that for it.
[22:29:18] <andypugh> I wonder if he will guess how much he is undercharging me for the work?
[22:29:32] <andypugh> Err, underpaying, I mean.
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[23:04:36] <r00t4rd3d> wow the guy in PA selling the d525 jacked his price
[23:04:43] <r00t4rd3d> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Intel-D525MW-Mini-ITX-Motherboard-w-Atom-525-CPU-/200542103383?pt=Motherboards&hash=item2eb13da757
[23:07:16] <r00t4rd3d> 84 to 175
[23:08:20] <L84Supper> http://racine.craigslist.org/bfs/3693598309.html nice price for a 7.5hp DC motor and gearbox
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[23:16:28] <andypugh> He seems unsure about the price.
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[23:27:47] <jdh> cheaper than: http://www.electricmotorwholesale.com/RELIANCE-01KA511491/
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[23:34:41] <r00t4rd3d> http://i.imgur.com/9of7J.jpg
[23:34:46] <r00t4rd3d> android theme
[23:35:26] <jdh> android has themess?
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[23:38:03] <r00t4rd3d> kinda
[23:39:37] <r00t4rd3d> most are based on uccw
[23:39:38] <r00t4rd3d> https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=in.vineetsirohi.customwidget
[23:43:39] <L84Supper> that Dodge gearbox also sells for over $1500
[23:44:38] <jdh> what do you move with a 9.3:1 240vdc motor
[23:46:13] <L84Supper> motor is rated at 1750/2300rpm so after 9.3:1 reduction 188 or 250 rpm
[23:48:36] <L84Supper> nice big shop fan :)
[23:48:42] <jdh> why DC for that? seems more complicated?
[23:49:20] <andypugh> The craigslist guy had it for an extruder.
[23:49:32] <L84Supper> yeah, it's an odd setup, it's too fast for an extruder without more gearing
[23:49:56] <andypugh> Well, I guess that is why it is a DC motor
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[23:51:13] <JT-Shop> well I took everything off the back of the BlueWing but the rear tire and I still can't find the missing screw
[23:51:39] <L84Supper> ah, the actual spec is 5000 rpm max
[23:51:52] <andypugh> JT-Shop: It's embedded in the tyre then?
[23:52:11] <JT-Shop> I think I'm in the twilight zone now
[23:53:03] <L84Supper> it should fit on top of my bridgeport
[23:54:52] <L84Supper> no more 2700 rpm limit
[23:55:13] <Tom_itx> JT-Shop you around?
[23:55:19] <JT-Shop> aye
[23:55:24] <Tom_itx> been wanting to ask a welding question
[23:55:36] <Tom_itx> what do you run your gas pressure at for mig?
[23:55:36] <JT-Shop> I'll try
[23:55:42] <L84Supper> it would make a nice grinder
[23:56:08] <JT-Shop> 28CFH
[23:56:11] <Tom_itx> k
[23:56:29] <Tom_itx> i think that's around what i had but i wasn't really sure where to set it
[23:56:51] <L84Supper> you can run it higher if you're out in the wind
[23:56:58] <JT-Shop> if I'm outside I jack it up to 32 or so
[23:57:00] <Tom_itx> yeah you just about have to
[23:57:08] <Tom_itx> or run flux core wire
[23:57:14] <Tom_itx> do you like that at all?
[23:57:19] <andypugh> That's a flow-rate, not a pressure. Just saying..
[23:57:22] <Tom_itx> i got a roll but never used it
[23:57:26] <Tom_itx> yeas
[23:57:49] <L84Supper> 95/5 mix?
[23:57:54] <JT-Shop> I used to use flux core with my 120v welder
[23:58:00] <Tom_itx> i use tri mix
[23:58:00] <JT-Shop> 85/15
[23:58:15] <Tom_itx> dunno what the core wire it for sure
[23:58:18] <JT-Shop> my Miller suitcase runs best on straight CO2
[23:58:28] <Tom_itx> i got the 175
[23:58:31] <JT-Shop> cleanest welder I've ever seen
[23:59:08] <Tom_itx> don't use it alot but went from stick to mig
[23:59:21] <Tom_itx> i kinda miss the stick welder
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[23:59:55] <JT-Shop> only thing I stick weld anymore is cast iron
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