#linuxcnc | Logs for 2013-03-11

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[07:29:11] <Loetmichel> mornin'
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[07:56:26] <DJ9DJ> moin
[07:58:13] <Loetmichel> soo, sorted the contents of my jeans pocket... *shi** missing 1 16GB and 2 8gb small, red... possibly in the washing machine again :-( -> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=14103
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[15:01:59] <pfred1> I am looking at http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?RtaiSteps and wondering are there any more recent instructions?
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[15:02:41] <pfred1> BTW I'm pretty sure make dep doesn't stand for (depreciated? but rather has something to do with dependencies
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[15:12:08] <Err> yes, it's definitely make dependencies
[15:12:20] <Err> (although I'm not sure that the kernel has actually required that for years)
[15:12:22] <cradek> that comment doesn't mean that dep stands for deprecated
[15:12:39] <pfred1> oh i gotcha
[15:12:46] <pfred1> yeah no it doesn't need it anymore
[15:13:23] <pfred1> cradek you have to know this what is the latest RTAI that LinuxCNC works with?
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[15:14:25] <cradek> I don't know of any problem with any new rtai version
[15:14:33] <pfred1> sweet thanks
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[15:42:53] <pfred1> rtai-3.9 has a patch in it for kernel version
[15:43:05] <pfred1> so I guess I'm going to try that out
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[17:10:01] <seb_kuzminsky> interesting cnc machine for sale in denver: http://denver.craigslist.org/bfd/3601296380.html
[17:10:32] <terrym> Hi
[17:10:48] <seb_kuzminsky> looks like my bridgeport r2e3, but with a tool changer & a more common spindle taper
[17:11:33] <terrym> I'm using a Mesa 5i23 w/latest LinuxCNC
[17:12:26] <terrym> Stepgen keeps giving me a following error, but it has no feedback, so has no idea of any real following error...
[17:13:00] <terrym> How does stepgen figure it has a following error?
[17:13:03] <tjb1> JT-Shop: Some things in the axis display aren't working. - Arc ok, up, down, ok, and offset but I didnt see anything in the postgui to add them
[17:13:05] <jthornton> do you have headroom in your stepgen max accel?
[17:13:20] <seb_kuzminsky> terrym: ar you using the hm2-stepper sample config?
[17:14:14] <terrym> headroom? please explain. based from sample config and modified.
[17:14:20] <pcw_home> The stepgen does have feedback and a following error indicates that the
[17:14:22] <pcw_home> stepgen hardware was not able to follow the requested command
[17:14:41] <seb_kuzminsky> what modifications did you make?
[17:15:16] <terrym> In my case I am using the UHU drive amps, so the encoders go to the UHU boards.
[17:16:55] <terrym> I can past a piece of the ini file?
[17:17:32] <skunkworks> http://pastebin.com/
[17:17:40] <skunkworks> post the whole thing
[17:17:53] <terrym> OK, one moment.
[17:18:30] <seb_kuzminsky> ini file and hal file both
[17:18:59] <pcw_home> usual causes of following errors in the hardware stepgen:
[17:19:01] <pcw_home> 1. No stepgen maxaccel headroom (stepgen maxaccel should be about 1.2 times machine acceleration limit)
[17:19:03] <pcw_home> 2. No stepgen maxaccel specified
[17:19:05] <pcw_home> 3. No stepgen maxvel headroom
[17:19:07] <pcw_home> 4. too much latency
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[17:20:01] <pcw_home> 5. steplen/stepspace setting will not allow machine command velocity
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[17:21:28] <terrym> http://pastebin.com/4RxZmwgx
[17:21:29] <L84Supper> pcw_home: how quickly can you toggle an IO 6i25 to signal a device in real time based on servo position?
[17:22:12] <skunkworks> so #2
[17:22:27] <terrym> Axis 0, X axis
[17:22:50] <terrym> Y axis works, though could be better.
[17:23:25] <terrym> hal file, one moment
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[17:24:20] <pcw_home> L84Supper: a few usec (but better to build position --> output hardware in FPGA if timing is critical)
[17:25:01] <L84Supper> an example application might be firing strobe every 13 degrees of the rotation of a spindle
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[17:25:42] <pcw_home> Sure better in hardware (FIFO for output data/comparator)
[17:25:45] <terrym> http://pastebin.com/8RVM1skw hal file
[17:26:00] <pcw_home> same for painting apps
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[17:27:02] <L84Supper> pcw_home: how much space is left in the FPGA? 6i25
[17:27:02] * JT-Shop doesn't have a clue what tjb1_ is talking about :)
[17:27:14] <pcw_home> lots normally
[17:27:34] <L84Supper> great, was concerned that you had packed things tightly
[17:28:27] <pcw_home> most simple configs are maybe 50% (sserial is fairly big if its got all 8 UARTS)
[17:28:45] <terrym> If the backlash is set to 0 and the speed keep to no more the 30'/min., the problem goes away.
[17:28:55] <skunkworks> terrym, http://git.linuxcnc.org/gitweb?p=linuxcnc.git;a=blob;f=configs/hm2-stepper/5i23.ini;h=e296e62dfbfaf7a81e0f4f0e3f47709452167b78;hb=HEAD
[17:29:14] <L84Supper> pcw_home: 5-axis servo + GPIO
[17:29:24] <skunkworks> you are missing STEPGEN_MAX_VEL = 12
[17:29:24] <skunkworks> STEPGEN_MAX_ACC = 24
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[17:29:38] <skunkworks> (not those values...
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[17:29:45] <pcw_home> if you dont have stepgen maxaccel set you _will_ have trouble
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[17:30:16] <skunkworks> So you need them in your ini and the correct connections in your hal
[17:30:23] <terrym> ok ...
[17:30:55] <skunkworks> http://git.linuxcnc.org/gitweb?p=linuxcnc.git;a=blob;f=configs/hm2-stepper/hm2-stepper.hal;h=433092247750e9fefcc26a65f0e183646c4deb80;hb=HEAD
[17:31:11] <JT-Shop> tjb1: I'll be back later...
[17:31:23] <skunkworks> setp hm2_[HOSTMOT2](BOARD).0.stepgen.02.maxvel [AXIS_2]STEPGEN_MAX_VEL
[17:31:23] <skunkworks> setp hm2_[HOSTMOT2](BOARD).0.stepgen.02.maxaccel [AXIS_2]STEPGEN_MAX_ACC
[17:31:43] <skunkworks> (for each axis)
[17:31:47] <L84Supper> pcw_home: so 6i25 + 7i77 or two 5i25's and 7i77's if we need 7 servos
[17:32:05] <tjb1> JT-Shop: ok
[17:32:27] <skunkworks> L84Supper, the 5i20 can do 2 7i77's with the right firmware
[17:32:38] <skunkworks> L84Supper, the 5i25 can do 2 7i77's with the right firmware
[17:32:40] <skunkworks> sorry
[17:32:52] <L84Supper> skunkworks: ok, was just looking at that
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[17:33:29] <L84Supper> we have 5 servos on one stage and 2 on another in the same machine
[17:33:33] <terrym> Thank you all very much, I see that now.
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[17:34:03] <terrym> I will say good bye now and go back out to the shop and try this. Again, Thank you.
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[17:54:57] <IchGuckLive> hi all B)
[17:55:04] <tjb1> hey
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[17:55:48] <terrym> Hi, again :)
[17:56:35] <IchGuckLive> terrym: welcome back
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[17:57:19] <terrym> I installed IRC on the mill, so am at the mill now.
[17:58:21] <terrym> I do have those max aceleration and volocity, just called them by different names...
[17:59:43] <terrym> The following error occurs at the end of a move, that is, when the move stops.
[17:59:50] <IchGuckLive> terrym: Where are you from europ or USA .Asia
[17:59:57] <terrym> USA
[18:00:03] <IchGuckLive> im in Germany
[18:00:29] <terrym> Its middle of the night there?
[18:00:30] <IchGuckLive> ok what error
[18:00:52] <IchGuckLive> i guess you are on a Stepper mashine using parport ?
[18:01:20] <terrym> Oh, sorry. 5i23 card, stepgen, w/UHU drive amps.
[18:01:47] <IchGuckLive> so im off inever used a BLCD
[18:01:47] <terrym> Encoders go to UHU boards, not to 5i23 card.
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[18:02:37] <terrym> So stepgen has no feedback, open loop. yet gives following errors.
[18:03:54] <cradek> stepgen does give position feedback to linuxcnc
[18:04:09] <IchGuckLive> just use stepconf wizard for your configs and work with low parport reset timing 1500ns
[18:04:18] <cradek> you should use halscope to plot command vs feedback position, and make those images along with your hal and ini files available online
[18:05:37] <terrym> one moment
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[18:07:50] <terrym> hal file: http://pastebin.com/ghnc9ZDh
[18:08:09] <terrym> err, ini file
[18:09:25] <tjb1> IchGuckLive: how are you doing pipe?
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[18:11:06] <terrym> http://pastebin.com/whxFKt4Y
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[18:12:57] <IchGuckLive> 4th axis on a magnet inside the water reserva and then as yiu do plates without the y just turning 4th axis
[18:13:36] <tjb1> what is your problem terrym
[18:13:47] <tjb1> IchGuckLive: magnet is bad
[18:13:56] <tjb1> You are gonna pick up all the slag
[18:14:54] <IchGuckLive> yes indeed
[18:16:09] <tjb1> dont get the magnet too close to the cutting end, it will screw up the arc
[18:16:16] <tjb1> and ruin the nozzle/electrode
[18:16:30] <IchGuckLive> its about 200mm away
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[18:23:01] <terrym> Hi tjb1
[18:23:06] <tjb1> hello
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[18:24:18] <terrym> open loop Mesa 5123 stepgen gives following error and end of move or upon reversing direction (backlash=0.013")
[18:25:18] <terrym> hal and ini files are at: http://pastebin.com/whxFKt4Y and http://pastebin.com/ghnc9ZDh
[18:25:56] <terrym> typo: 5123 == 5i23
[18:26:02] <tjb1> Oh Mesa….I can't help there
[18:26:02] <pcw_home> The example hal and ini files in linux 2.5 or later have the stepgen maxaccel and stepgen maxvel set up correctly
[18:26:04] <pcw_home> where did you get yours?
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[18:27:12] <terrym> I started from the example, then modified to my hardware.
[18:27:53] <terrym> I took things from an older config that predates my UHU drive boards.
[18:28:06] <pcw_home> the example I see has this in the ini file but it not there in yours:
[18:28:08] <pcw_home> TYPE = LINEAR
[18:28:10] <pcw_home> MAX_VELOCITY = 10
[18:28:11] <pcw_home> MAX_ACCELERATION = 20
[18:28:13] <pcw_home> # Set Stepgen max 20% higher than the axis
[18:28:15] <pcw_home> STEPGEN_MAX_VEL = 12
[18:28:17] <pcw_home> STEPGEN_MAX_ACC = 24
[18:29:12] <terrym> where does it use both w/STEPGEN_ and w/o ?
[18:29:37] <terrym> That is, I use MAX_VELOCITY with stepgen.
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[18:30:09] <terrym> I will look at a clean example again....
[18:30:19] <pcw_home> that will not work
[18:31:41] <pcw_home> the stepgen need headroom (the 20% mentioned) so the newer ini files have maxvel and stepgen_maxvel, maxaccel and stepgen_maxaccel
[18:34:20] <terrym> OK, I opened the 5i23 stepgen example config. X and Y both move out of the box, but very very slow. Will check it out.
[18:36:15] <ve7it> another issue maybe the backlash compensation.... as I understand it, the backlash comp is applied brutally without accel/decel.... the feeror setting probably should not be less than the backlash number
[18:37:13] <pcw_home> just copy the example .ini and 5i23.hal files to files with different names
[18:37:18] <pcw_home> edit the halfile line in the ini file to point to the new hal file
[18:37:18] <pcw_home> and then set the ini file variables to match your old hal file
[18:41:17] <terrym> OK, changed the SCALE, now moves great at 60"/min. ! with no following errors.
[18:41:42] <terrym> Thank you all
[18:49:08] <terrym> OK, so stepgen used STEPGEN_MAX_VEL and STEPGEN_MAX_ACC and I see these used in the hal file.
[18:49:30] <jdh> do SSI absolute encoders do bidirectional data?
[18:49:35] <terrym> Where are MAX_VELOCITY and MAX_ACCELERATION used?
[18:49:44] <terrym> I do not see these in the hal file.
[18:52:55] <pcw_home> SSI no BISS yes
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[18:54:06] <jdh> Absolute Encoder support via SSI
[18:54:37] <jdh> so there is no way to store any data in the encoder, just read the location?
[18:54:41] <pcw_home> There may be some weird SSI variants that do bi-di bu basic SSI is clock out, data back from encoder
[18:55:09] <pcw_home> BISS has a comm mode for setup
[18:55:24] <jdh> but, the docs would say that instead of SSI?
[18:56:25] <jdh> it's a Parker ACR motion controller -> Parker Aries Drive -> Parker servo with Abs-enc. One of their tech guys said the drives read the motor setup from the encoder.
[18:58:28] <skunkworks_> terrym, those are used by the trajectory planner
[18:58:54] <pcw_home> They may well have a proprietary scheme they use during startup (like yaskawa used the A/B lines for a async serial port at startup)
[18:59:57] <pcw_home> (I think yaskawa just reads the absolute position)
[19:00:36] <jdh> on one of these, when you reset the encoder, the system became unstable (no torque or runaway)
[19:01:02] <jdh> if you swap motors on two drives, it works properly again, until you reset the encoder.
[19:01:09] <terrym> Thanks skunkworks.
[19:01:18] <jdh> but, the other one works fine all the time.
[19:02:22] <pcw_home> Its a clever idea if it works (so the motor specific information stays with the motor)
[19:03:14] <jdh> in theory, if a drive dies you just swap it out and it magically works.
[19:03:51] <jdh> but, one of them doesn't work... it appears to loose commutation offsets if you re-zero the encoder.
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[19:04:56] <pcw_home> Some of the older Yaskawa ones had battery backup of the absolute count
[19:06:01] <pcw_home> If it was read only, it would be easy to graft onto the SSI protocol with some kind of funny clocking
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[20:05:53] <Connor> pcw_home: Pete got his Din rails in for his 7i77 board today. Already has them installed. Said it was nice stuff and made mounting that 7i77 a very solid and quick affair. 
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[20:14:20] <uminded> What kind of file does classicladder output?? Is their an example file somewhere I can look at?
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[20:20:56] <JT-Shop> on the wiki there should be some .clp files
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[20:53:17] <tjb1> https://www.dropbox.com/s/tueohyem0ehtx02/IMG_20130311_160826.jpg
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[20:59:10] <syyl_> plasmacut?
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[21:02:32] <tjb1> yes
[21:02:42] <syyl_> looks nice :)
[21:02:56] <tjb1> .75" thick with 45 amps
[21:03:05] <syyl_> chinese amps?
[21:03:07] <syyl_> oder real ones
[21:03:39] <roycroft> hey - the chinese have the same size amps as we do
[21:03:44] <roycroft> they just have tiny little horses
[21:04:09] <tjb1> hypertherm
[21:04:17] <syyl_> oh, real ones
[21:04:20] <syyl_> cool :)
[21:04:32] <tjb1> the 40 amp hobart we had wouldnt touch that
[21:04:39] <tjb1> only 8ipm but nice finish
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[21:05:04] <syyl_> the finish looks without a doubt very good
[21:05:26] <tjb1> the slag broke off with a hammer
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[21:07:45] <tjb1> 140v which was recommended seemed like a bit too much
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[21:34:25] <Connor> pcw_home: On the 7i77, the enables for the drives.. Say I have a driver that requires I ground the enable pin.. how does that work ?
[21:34:44] <andypugh> Connor: I think you need a relay.
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[21:36:00] <Connor> http://www.machmotion.com/manuals/TED/TSTAUserManual.pdf
[21:36:05] <Connor> driver manual.
[21:36:16] <Connor> Trying to figure out how it handles the E-Stop and Enable inputs..
[21:36:38] <Connor> page 2-28 is the way we're wiring it up
[21:37:50] <Connor> I swear it looks like it's setup so that it's sourced internally +24v and pulled to ground.
[21:38:17] <Connor> "The ENA outputs are floating switches so can be used for active high and active low drive enables. "
[21:38:29] <Connor> What the heck does that mean ?
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[21:47:19] <tjb1> Connor: http://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/577438_10200439780533044_1906476485_n.jpg
[21:47:39] <Connor> What am I looking at ?
[21:47:53] <tjb1> part the plasma cut with thc
[21:47:57] <tjb1> .750 thick
[21:48:07] <Connor> AHH. You got it working
[21:48:12] <tjb1> Yes
[21:48:27] <andypugh> Connor: It meas that you have two terminals, and current can flow from one to the other when enabled.
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[21:49:12] <andypugh> So, if you want to pull down to enable, wire the drive pin to +, wire the - to gnd, and that ought to work.
[21:49:19] <Connor> okay. So, it doesn't source... that means, one side should be able to be hooked to ground, the other to the enable pin ?
[21:49:29] <Connor> ok
[21:49:57] <Connor> okay, so, now.. The drives also have a E-Stop and a Alarm reset.
[21:50:06] <Connor> I think the E-Stop will be in with a latching relay..
[21:50:13] <Connor> but the Alarm Rest..
[21:50:15] <andypugh> Probbaly safest.
[21:50:36] <andypugh> Alarm reset could be a physical switch?
[21:50:54] <Connor> It sinks to ground looks like.. that means, the field I/O is SOL as far as clearing that..
[21:51:22] <tjb1> What is the purpose of a power resistor on an atx supply?
[21:51:53] <tjb1> I know it is to "activate" the supply but wouldnt the things connected to it be enough?
[21:52:01] <Connor> So, what i'm not sure about is if the Driver goes into Alarm with E-Stop is tripped.. and if that's the case.. ugg.
[21:52:17] <Connor> tjb1: Where is it at?
[21:52:33] <tjb1> Well the one that came with my printer has a resistor on the large rectangular plug
[21:52:37] <Connor> Might be so that the ATX turns on always instead of having to use software switch ?
[21:52:39] <tjb1> Im not using it with a computer
[21:52:48] <tjb1> I know of the PS ON wire
[21:53:28] <Connor> Probably to allow the PSU to be on without having a load.. like maybe if it was for the Extruder ?
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[21:54:28] <andypugh> PCW: Have there been any changes to the 7i73 matrix keyboard handling? I am not seeing the documented key-up codes, and no sign of key rollover. I have the R11 firmware to flash if that is likely to be more typical.
[21:56:10] <andypugh> Though swrevision is showing "B" which sounds like "11"
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[22:01:50] <skunkworks> andypugh: have you hobbed?
[22:02:17] <andypugh> No, I have been distracted by other stuff (pewter lids, oak desks)
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[22:03:35] <L84Supper> whats the going price for a new Fanuc or Siemens CNC controller for a VMC?
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[22:05:39] <andypugh> Talking of oak, I took some photos of my woodwork at the weekend: https://plus.google.com/photos/108164504656404380542/albums/5854209973166221953
[22:06:19] <JT-Shop> nice
[22:06:23] <PCW> Dont know about the KB stuff I can ask Gilbert on Wednesday
[22:06:24] <PCW> I did look and rollover is not supported (though it could be with per keyswitch diodes)
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[22:07:07] <andypugh> I thought you said that it handled 2 keys? (I think that is what the manual says too)
[22:07:12] <L84Supper> http://www.ebay.com/itm/2006-Fanuc-Series-18i-TB-control-panel-2-available-/121024942455?pt=BI_Control_Systems_PLCs&hash=item1c2da61177
[22:07:18] <L84Supper> how much are these new?
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[22:07:27] <PCW> I may be that without rollover there are only keydown and all up codes
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[22:08:11] <PCW> I will look into rollover support I think we had intended to do it but it needs the diodes
[22:08:18] <andypugh> Ah, the manual says no rollover. Some guy called pcw_home said it did too keys, but you can't trust folk on IRC.
[22:08:57] <andypugh> I thought I convinced myself that 2 keys can be unabiguously identified.
[22:09:09] <PCW> nope
[22:09:10] <PCW> I think we had it sort of working but must have reverted it
[22:09:39] <PCW> we will add the capability if diodes are there
[22:09:43] <andypugh> What I am seeing is keydown, then a 00NNNNN scancode
[22:10:29] <PCW> must be alll-up scancode
[22:10:40] <andypugh> I am still dithering on whether to add scan-generation to the component to drive non-mesa keyboards.
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[22:17:20] <Jymmm> I'm planning on selling my router with enough components to build two new controllers (parker drives, din rial mounted relays, safety relays, contacts, 24V LED industrial controls, couple of al chassis, etc), think it better to part out or sell as a lot?
[22:18:12] <JT-Shop> I'm stumped http://www.linuxcnc.org/index.php/english/forum/10-advanced-configuration/26272-external-jogging?start=6#31244
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[22:21:43] <yellowfrog> Any channels for homemade hardware?
[22:22:12] <Connor> PCW Can you comment on some of the questions i had above.. Andy answered the one about the enable..
[22:30:00] <andypugh> yellowfrog: Not that I know of, but that doesn't mean that there aren't
[22:30:21] <andypugh> You might still get some help here. What sort of Hardware are you meaning?
[22:32:25] <andypugh> JT-Shop: If it works with 2.5 and not 2.6, it might be an actual bug.
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[22:40:35] <L84Supper> yellowfrog: it sort of is in here for CNC
[22:42:13] <DJ9DJ> gn8
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[22:47:17] <pfred1> ha ha! I have Gentoo running on a kernel now that I can patch with RTAI
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[22:53:17] <JT-Shop> andypugh: I was hoping it was not
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[22:56:43] <Jymmm> LOL have you guys seen the 10M cp spotlight?
[22:57:05] <andypugh> Is it literally 10M candles?
[22:57:49] <Jymmm> andypugh: Yes, compacted in a glass envelope for your protection and her pleasure
[22:57:50] <Jymmm> http://www.komar.org/halloween/thor-x-light/thor-x-heavy.jpg
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[23:23:30] <yellowfrog> andypugh: i need to build a CNC machine for under 1000$ that can make firearm pieces
[23:23:59] <Jymmm> cradek: http://sweepstakes.cadencewatch.com/
[23:24:04] <andypugh> You _need_ to do that?
[23:24:07] <yellowfrog> yea
[23:24:27] <Jymmm> andypugh: EVERYONE _NEEDS_ to do that
[23:24:29] <andypugh> Must be a US thing.
[23:24:34] <yellowfrog> Pieces i want to buy already made cost 500$.
[23:24:50] <yellowfrog> So for 1000$ in machine, i can make part and have machine make other good things
[23:25:01] <yellowfrog> andypugh: It is, we have a revolution brewing here
[23:25:02] <Jymmm> andypugh: Yep, we already whooped your butts =)
[23:25:31] <yellowfrog> we are considering evicting california and it's senators most importantly
[23:25:50] <andypugh> Yeah, well, don't count on any help from me.
[23:26:21] <Jymmm> andypugh: dont be a sore loser =)
[23:26:25] <andypugh> But I wil say that a $1000 machine probably can't make $500 parts.
[23:26:25] <yellowfrog> I want to be able to some day make guns for my kids to enjoy, if the tyrants that be take them from us
[23:26:41] <yellowfrog> andypugh: these parts that are 500$ are usually 100$
[23:26:58] <yellowfrog> But right now, our crazy leadership has driven prices through the roof
[23:27:18] <andypugh> I think you want a gun politics channel
[23:27:43] <yellowfrog> Pretty sure they dont know so much about building CNC machines.
[23:28:30] <yellowfrog> andypugh: You ever shot a gun?
[23:29:03] <andypugh> Yes, I was in the shooting team at college.
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[23:29:25] <andypugh> And shot for my ATC squadron.
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[23:29:51] <yellowfrog> Then you agree, shooting them is rather fun, right?
[23:30:16] <andypugh> I grew out of it.
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[23:31:10] <Jymmm> cradek: Pi Watch http://sweepstakes.cadencewatch.com/pi?kid=11D9D
[23:31:18] <andypugh> You would need to start with a real milling machine, made of cast iron, probably second-hand.
[23:31:58] <andypugh> You would be using alloy steels, and they are likely to need heat-treatment afterwards.
[23:31:58] <yellowfrog> nah, for everything short of barrels, you can use pretty soft steel
[23:32:01] <Jymmm> andypugh: I'd think a lathe
[23:32:30] <pfred1> yellowfrog learn how to build AK-47s
[23:32:39] <yellowfrog> barrels you need a lathe, a moderately tempered steel and extremely rigid machine
[23:33:00] <yellowfrog> pfred1: heh thats actually what im interested in making mostly
[23:33:15] <pfred1> yellowfrog there are a lot of great videos on youtube
[23:33:22] <yellowfrog> pfred1: I know how to make
[23:33:25] <pfred1> you mainly just need a press
[23:33:32] <yellowfrog> if you buy flats, yea
[23:33:40] <Jymmm> pfred1: press? for what?
[23:33:42] <yellowfrog> then you need a parts kit, etc
[23:33:43] <pfred1> nah you need a press to pin the barrel
[23:34:01] <Jymmm> pfred1: pin the barrel?
[23:34:08] <pfred1> Jymmm the barrel on an AK47 is pressed into the block
[23:34:15] <Jymmm> pfred1: ah
[23:34:17] <pfred1> yes then held with a pin
[23:34:31] <Jymmm> pfred1: an arbor press would work?
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[23:34:39] <pfred1> no you need a hydraulic press
[23:34:48] <yellowfrog> If you make your own flats, you can bend them in a 1 ton press
[23:34:53] <Jymmm> hand or electric?
[23:34:57] <pfred1> hand
[23:35:02] <Jymmm> ah, ok
[23:35:13] <Jymmm> 10T ?
[23:35:19] <pfred1> just one of those cheap hydraulic presses is what everyone uses a Homier special
[23:35:26] <Jymmm> k
[23:35:44] <Jymmm> pfred1: I'm semi more interested in ammo
[23:35:56] <Jymmm> pfred1: brass etc
[23:35:58] <pfred1> yellowfrog the best video I saw was done by an aircraft mechanic man he is a God with rivets
[23:35:59] <Jymmm> caps
[23:36:44] <pfred1> his AKs looked like factory
[23:36:54] <pfred1> maybe better than
[23:43:47] <yellowfrog> i dont care if they look like a 5 year old caveman beat them into shape with a hammer as long as they fire and are reasonably accurate
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[23:46:49] <KimK> yellowfrog: There is #diycnc, but there is generally more traffic here
[23:48:56] <pfred1> time to start patching here
[23:52:24] <pfred1> why does it seem like half of this "README.INSTALL" file is missing?
[23:54:15] <pfred1> has anyone here built rtai-3.9 ?
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