#linuxcnc | Logs for 2013-03-04

[00:10:51] <andypugh> MM
[00:11:09] <pfred1> WW
[00:11:43] <pfred1> who wants to check out my Big 12"?
[00:12:00] <andypugh> ♂♂
[00:12:01] <pfred1> http://i.imgur.com/REHYpJb.jpg
[00:12:38] * Jymmm grabs the machete... pfred1, sure why not
[00:13:11] <andypugh> I remain astonished by how much cutting my cordless saw can do on one charge.
[00:13:37] <pfred1> I for a cordless circular saw too but it is only 18V
[00:13:43] <pfred1> I got even
[00:14:18] <pfred1> it is OK for like thin sheets and stuff
[00:14:50] <pfred1> I got that Porter Cable at a flea market for $15
[00:15:02] <pfred1> but it was missing the drive washer
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[00:20:17] <andypugh> My circular saw is 18V. It has happily cut through 6" of 1" thick _aluminium_
[00:20:27] <pfred1> dang
[00:20:42] <pfred1> I cut aluminum on my table saw
[00:20:56] <JT-Shop> I was impressed with my neighbors 18v saw when I used it to build the roof for my shop
[00:21:13] <pfred1> I donno maybe my batteries aren't great?
[00:21:27] <pfred1> I don't fool with the thing much really I don't expect a whole lot out of it
[00:21:57] <andypugh> And made all the cuts and drove all the screws in this: https://plus.google.com/photos/108164504656404380542/albums/5747722155741347649/5851212023964488322?banner=pwa and is still showing green charge status (that's 18mm / 3/4" ply)
[00:22:55] <andypugh> Yeah, mine has a 2.4Ah Li-Ion battery. That makes the big difference.
[00:23:00] <JT-Shop> thanks, now I have to build one for my BP
[00:23:34] <pfred1> I only have a couple Li-ion tools they use little batteries too biggest is 14.4
[00:23:41] <JT-Shop> which means I like it Andy
[00:24:07] <pfred1> http://i.imgur.com/RCcBv.jpg
[00:24:42] <andypugh> I am a fan of: http://www.ryobitools.com/catalog/18v_oneplus 2 battry chemistries, 2 battery sizes, lots of tools, all interchangeable.
[00:25:08] <pfred1> I've had a couple Ryobi tools
[00:25:24] <pfred1> let's just say due to those experiences I haven't been such a fan
[00:25:44] <andypugh> Really? Mine have been completly flawless.
[00:25:45] <pfred1> I have a router by them and a biscuiter
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[00:25:53] <pfred1> they're both total pieces of crap
[00:26:29] <pfred1> the bicquitter I don't even know how it manages to do it but it can make the slots come out different heights nothing seems that loose
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[00:27:12] <tjb1> I have to rep dewalt
[00:28:16] <pfred1> bosch now I've naver had anytying by them that I didn't like
[00:28:32] <pfred1> their stuff is flawless
[00:28:58] <roh> hm. we have makita tools for the new, proper hand tools
[00:29:07] <roh> s/hand/cordless/
[00:29:20] <pfred1> I have a couple of Makita tools they have a lot of different lines
[00:29:40] <roh> 18V, lithium only here. 3 and 1.5Ah packs
[00:30:05] <pfred1> all of mine are corded
[00:30:14] <andypugh> JT-Shop: I decided I only needed 4 rows of 8. Now I am not so sure: https://plus.google.com/photos/108164504656404380542/albums/5747722155741347649/5851278553157495602?banner=pwa
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[00:30:43] <andypugh> I need a cheap source or ER25 nuts.
[00:30:59] <roh> only one machine we have takes only the 3Ah packs (the big drill) .. all others can use both. the chargers can handle all packs from 7.2 to 18V, all avail chemistries
[00:31:04] <pfred1> andypugh you have a CNC lathe
[00:31:19] <JT-Shop> I know what you mean, I have 5 rows of 6 for the BP and have the rest laying about
[00:31:20] <roh> andypugh: huh? aren't those <5E/piece?
[00:31:54] <andypugh> roh: Yes. But I only paid £3 each for all those toolholders.
[00:32:00] <pfred1> sweet
[00:32:37] <andypugh> (not including the drill chuck and the hobbing/milling arbors)
[00:32:39] <jdh> aliexpress
[00:32:57] <pfred1> I want to take a trip to the rust belt to get in on some auctions
[00:34:34] <roh> andypugh: well.. tough luck ;)
[00:37:37] <andypugh> I found some at £7.99 for three, plus £5.99 postage.
[00:37:49] <pfred1> can't beat that
[00:37:51] <andypugh> I will probably wait to see if I ever actually need those holders.
[00:38:27] <pfred1> what does need have to do with it?
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[00:38:47] <pfred1> I'd rather have tools I don't need than need tools I don't have
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[00:41:11] <Jymmm> what he said
[00:41:35] <andypugh> Yes, but, when the order got to £85 it became less of an impulse purchase.
[00:42:13] <andypugh> I decided to shop around a bit. £25 for a seto of ER25 collets is good, but when you add £15 for postage, suddenly less so.
[00:43:04] <andypugh> I can't remeber the name of the hong-kong company I have bought from a few times. Three initials...
[00:44:54] <roh> ;)
[00:45:09] <roh> 3 for 8 pound seems really good
[00:45:41] <andypugh> It is. But I want 9. And the postage on 9 of them is £15.
[00:47:16] <andypugh> aha! www.ctctools.biz is the URL I was struggling with.
[00:47:51] <pfred1> the new TLDs seem so cheesy
[00:48:45] <Jymmm> http://pfred1.moo
[00:49:25] <roh> andypugh: still cheap. ive seen sales for >100E per
[00:49:46] <andypugh> So, buying from CTC in HK is cheaper than buying much cheaper things from eBay, because eBay simply multiplies up the shipping costs.
[00:50:06] <pfred1> ebay is like scam central anymore
[00:50:11] <roh> depends on the seller. ebay scams everybody
[00:50:44] <roh> serious sellers only want multiplying shipping on heavy stuff.
[00:50:48] <andypugh> I can't find where the "ask for combined shipping" button has gone, that might be the problem
[00:50:51] <pfred1> only $1.99 plus $5.99 shipping
[00:51:23] <pfred1> then you get the package and it says $1.78 on it
[00:51:40] <roh> find company via ebay, buy directly. no ebay cost. proper invoices ;)
[00:54:11] <roh> same goes for amazon. dont support that monster
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[00:55:14] <pfred1> oh I don't know
[00:55:23] <pfred1> Amazon has 2 fulfillment centers in my state now
[00:56:48] <andypugh> roh: A cunning plan, but when I do that I get: After the discount price:$93.50 Freight is expected to total:$204
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[02:02:08] <pcw_home> Conner: there's a firmware option for a index mask for his type of situation
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[02:33:25] <Connor> pcw_home: How does that work exactly ?
[02:33:49] <Connor> pcw_home: and of course.. Where do I get the firmware? :)
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[02:43:22] <pcw_home> It requires a free FPGA input pin. but the encoder counter has an index mask pin (its described in the hostmot2 manual)
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[02:44:25] <Connor> okay. That manual for the 5i25 ?
[02:44:30] <Connor> or in linux ?
[02:44:38] <pcw_home> Linux
[02:46:20] <Connor> Defiantly need some help with that then.. I'm not sure what the voltage is on the prox sensor.. I'll have to do some research and find out a model number.. I'm going to assume it's 24v.
[02:47:30] <Connor> and it does use a FPGA and not a field I/O pin...
[02:47:33] <Connor> ?
[02:48:12] <pcw_home> Yes
[02:49:05] <Connor> okay. So, He has 3 axis and a VFD based Spindle with potial to add a 4th axis. Should still have a few FPGA pins left I think..
[02:49:06] <pcw_home> Its probably gateable in HAL but as Andy said its awkward because of the bidirectional nature of index enable
[02:49:41] <Connor> yea. I would rather do it the right way.. or best way.. and having the FPGA handle it sounds like the best way.. outside of having a some sort of simple circuit do it.
[02:49:58] <pcw_home> yeah a unused encoder index or A/B line could be used
[02:50:45] <Connor> So Axis 0,1,2,3 reserved use.. and 5 for the Spindle. So, any pins on Encoder 4 can be used.
[02:50:51] <tjb1> XML changes will override a number set in HAL correct?
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[02:58:08] <L84Supper> http://www.keyence.com/products/microscope/microscope/vhx2000/vhx2000_features_1.php this should do the job for fiducial alignment down to the micron scale
[03:05:15] <pfred1> smack it with a hammer
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[03:11:59] <Connor> tjb1: what are you referring too ?
[03:12:16] <tjb1> Sliders in custom xml
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[03:18:08] <pfred1> white castle has sliders
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[03:52:39] <L84Supper> yikes, activeX control for an imaging system
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[06:01:57] <Loetmichel> mornin#
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[06:05:42] <r00t4rd3d> nigh#
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[07:57:13] <DJ9DJ> moin
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[09:03:06] <mk0> is there any difference between G1 x5 and G1 x5.000?
[09:03:51] <archivist> some wasted 0
[09:04:25] <toastydeath> archivist does emc handle 5 as the 5.
[09:05:02] <toastydeath> that's way better than fanuc, which defaults decimalless numbers to the maximum decimal place possible
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[09:06:01] <archivist> internally they are stored in the same type
[09:06:16] <Jymmm> binary!
[09:06:42] <toastydeath> haha
[09:06:53] <Jymmm> 101
[09:06:57] <Jymmm> 0101
[09:07:02] <toastydeath> 8675309
[09:07:10] <Jymmm> Ok jenny
[09:07:29] <Jymmm> you slut!
[09:07:47] <archivist> toastydeath, you are perhaps confused by what fanuc are telling you
[09:07:59] <toastydeath> ?
[09:08:52] <archivist> defaults decimalless numbers to the maximum decimal place possible, it is also storing all numbers in one type
[09:09:08] <Jymmm> type casting
[09:09:20] <archivist> not really
[09:09:28] <mk0> still can not understand is 5=5.000? won't it go e.g. 5.006? :)
[09:09:41] <Jymmm> 5 (int) to float (5.00000000)
[09:10:22] <archivist> 5 is equal to 5.however many 0 the internal number format can handle
[09:11:14] <Jymmm> Right, but it sound slikw what toastydeath is syaing if someone inputs a 5 (int), internally it's being type casted to a float.
[09:11:29] <toastydeath> fanuc stores everything as an int/long
[09:11:56] <Jymmm> How is 5.0006 int/long?
[09:11:57] <toastydeath> and if you type 5, it stores it as 5. Unfortunately, that's .0005 inches, because that's just what they do
[09:12:03] <toastydeath> 50006
[09:12:07] <toastydeath> is an int
[09:12:24] <Jymmm> oh, they are using BIG math
[09:12:27] <toastydeath> ya
[09:12:41] <toastydeath> and if the system is on high precision mode, it's even worse
[09:12:52] <toastydeath> because then 5 is like .0000005
[09:12:56] <toastydeath> or something
[09:13:08] <toastydeath> "Why isn't the mill moving"
[09:13:14] <Jymmm> Yeah, adding machine can do that.
[09:13:43] <Jymmm> like finacial is 50 =becomes 0.50
[09:13:47] <toastydeath> yeah
[09:13:52] <Jymmm> 150 == 1.50, etc
[09:14:29] <Jymmm> I'd suspect there is a setting for that.
[09:14:45] <toastydeath> there is, but it's only like two modes
[09:14:50] <toastydeath> tenths and millionths
[09:14:55] <Jymmm> It's meant for convienace of operator input
[09:15:05] <toastydeath> no way, it's the most annoying as fuck thing. it's for safety
[09:15:18] <toastydeath> they assume you were fat fingering things
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[09:15:26] <Jymmm> lol
[09:15:27] <toastydeath> fanuc has a lot of defaults that just assume fat fingering
[09:15:45] <Jymmm> Well, annoying is better than fingerless
[09:16:26] <Jymmm> Speaking of fingerless, I think I want this http://www.amazon.com/MTECH-USA-MT-092-14-Inch-Overall/dp/B0060E57M6/ref=pd_sim_sg_4
[09:16:26] <toastydeath> i had a co-worker who crashed the machines every time he set one up
[09:16:27] <toastydeath> it was great
[09:16:33] <toastydeath> (re: fingerless)
[09:16:52] <toastydeath> aw, i thought you were going to post like, biker gang gloves
[09:17:11] <mk0> pipol
[09:17:19] <Jymmm> Nah, already have them
[09:17:35] <mk0> should i write x5.000? or is it enough x5?
[09:18:37] <Jymmm> toastydeath: Not a bad price for it
[09:19:10] <Jymmm> decent reviews, takes some abuse
[09:20:00] <toastydeath> you could make hundreds of pairs of fingerless gloves
[09:20:19] <Jymmm> I have em already
[09:20:30] <Jymmm> oh with the knife, I use scissors
[09:20:54] <toastydeath> oh
[09:21:41] <DJ9DJ> but dont cut the gloves while your fingers are inside :/
[09:21:54] <Jymmm> DJ9DJ: why not?
[09:23:04] <DJ9DJ> might end in pain and blood ;)
[09:23:40] <Jymmm> thats what the sewing machine and tequila are for
[09:24:21] <toastydeath> be sure to use a coverlocker
[09:24:48] <Jymmm> then how will I lube the machine?
[09:25:07] <toastydeath> wat
[09:25:17] <Jymmm> I wouldn't mind getting my hands on an industrial sewing machine
[09:25:32] <toastydeath> i got one, it's baller
[09:25:45] <toastydeath> i made a mistake and got a 4 thread serger rather than a straight stitch, though
[09:26:20] <Jymmm> how did you do that? You do a lot of serging?
[09:26:49] <toastydeath> I had a little home sewing machine
[09:26:55] <toastydeath> and figured hey, if i can do straight stitching
[09:27:06] <toastydeath> it would make things faster to be able to single-pass seams
[09:27:30] <Jymmm> Cool http://sfbay.craigslist.org/sby/atq/3626913467.html
[09:27:38] <toastydeath> and it's true, it takes like thirty seconds to do the major seams on any article of clothing now
[09:27:40] <Jymmm> I used one of those many moons ago
[09:27:41] <toastydeath> HOWEVER
[09:27:47] <toastydeath> 80% of the time is everything else
[09:28:07] <toastydeath> i should have got the 6000 stitch/min straight stitch instead of the 6000 s/min sergr
[09:28:09] <toastydeath> *serger
[09:28:45] <Jymmm> crap http://sfbay.craigslist.org/sby/tls/3652565947.html
[09:28:56] <toastydeath> haha
[09:29:02] <toastydeath> good shit, that right there
[09:29:14] <Jymmm> not at $950
[09:29:21] <toastydeath> also, you could EMC the machine - a lot of machines have servo drives now
[09:29:32] <toastydeath> that's one of the downsides of my machine, it has two speeds
[09:29:37] <toastydeath> because it's a clutch driven deal
[09:30:21] <Jymmm> double crap http://sfbay.craigslist.org/sby/for/3648029301.html
[09:30:39] <toastydeath> ya, bottom of the barrel for used industrial machines is like 600-700
[09:31:44] <Jymmm> Hmmm http://sfbay.craigslist.org/sby/hsh/3656634463.html
[09:31:58] <toastydeath> ..not an industrial machine
[09:32:10] <Jymmm> No, but it is a Janome
[09:32:15] <toastydeath> let me tell you though, a 1/2 or 3/4 hp motor will drive a needle through anything
[09:32:30] <toastydeath> i could probably sew thin gauge stainless
[09:33:15] <Jymmm> 600 denier nylon webbing, about 8 layers
[09:33:33] <toastydeath> I could sew about a half inch of hard denim
[09:33:38] <toastydeath> which is all that will fit under the foot
[09:33:42] <toastydeath> sew + cut
[09:33:50] <toastydeath> the needles are the weak link
[09:34:03] <toastydeath> never tried webbing
[09:34:13] <Jymmm> I want to sew some custom sheaths
[09:34:31] <toastydeath> also something to watch out for, not sure how much you are into industrial machines
[09:34:43] <toastydeath> BUT the drive bar and other shit has to be changed out for different weights of material
[09:34:55] <Jymmm> I'm not at all actually
[09:35:00] <toastydeath> usually 2 or 3 sets of drive equipment
[09:35:06] <Jymmm> ah
[09:35:12] <toastydeath> ultralight/sheer, medium/general use, and then ultra-heavy
[09:35:34] <toastydeath> on the positive side, there's a thousand totally interchangable foot types across most machines
[09:35:59] <toastydeath> so you can put a double or triple-folding foot and adjust the fold width
[09:36:08] <toastydeath> and you don't have to pin edges and seams anymore
[09:36:21] <Jymmm> I dont pin as it is =)
[09:36:30] <toastydeath> haha you're probably WAY better than i am
[09:36:59] <Jymmm> Doubtful, just dont do a whole lot.
[09:37:12] <Jymmm> or very basic stuff.
[09:37:57] <Jymmm> toastydeath: 1HP sewing machine http://sfbay.craigslist.org/sby/atq/3617954013.html
[09:38:05] <toastydeath> get it
[09:38:22] <toastydeath> let me tell you, i wish for nothing more than being able to switch my serger out for a straight stitch machine.
[09:38:24] <Jymmm> toastydeath: TAG! You're the horse!
[09:38:25] <toastydeath> just a basic thing
[09:38:51] <Jymmm> toastydeath: Now, get to work you jackass!
[09:38:57] <toastydeath> hahaha
[09:40:18] <toastydeath> it's near 5 am
[09:40:21] <toastydeath> i am going to bed, goodnight
[09:40:28] <Jymmm> My climbers rated webbing I just tie. But I want to sew thinner stuff
[09:40:35] <Jymmm> G'Night
[09:42:28] <DJ9DJ> gn8 jymmm
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[13:05:33] <korsi> hmm linuxCNC isn't currently suitable for w-edm?
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[13:09:48] <korsi> or is it?
[13:10:43] <archivist> I know people have wire foam cutters, only a small step to wire edm
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[13:18:32] <Jymmm> archivist: Say what? Isn't that like saying a dremel is a small step to a BP ?
[13:22:44] <archivist> no
[13:25:57] <archivist> the path you have to follow is similar
[13:27:04] <Jymmm> Oh, your talking trajectory is a small step?
[13:28:55] <Err> EDM is normally positioned via a servo based on arc current, though, right? there is no real 'feed speed' other than keeping a constant current between the wire and work?
[13:29:36] <korsi> i read somewhere there wsa a problem with goin back wards when wire shorted to to tooled piece
[13:31:33] <korsi> but i read too that someone is developing the w-edm feature. Anyone knows how it is goimg?
[13:35:34] <Err> the wire should never short to the tooled piece, or else your feed is broken
[13:35:54] <Err> (because that would/could cause a spot weld, which would be very difficult to remove without breaking the wire)
[13:36:28] <korsi> hmm ok.
[13:38:26] <Err> from what I understand, the feed on a wire EDM is primarily controlled by working current - if the working current reaches some threshold, movement *must* stop until the current falls (meaning that all material nearby has been cut away); the travel of the wire is secondary
[13:39:15] <skunkworks> Err, linuxcnc at this time doesn't have a way to backup. that being said - I know one person that just used adaptive feed (adjusting the feedrate based on the spark gap)
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[13:47:24] <korsi> skunkworks: is there some documents about the adaptive feed thing? I have drilled some holes with arduino controlled small 70v sink-edm and now we are trying to make it w-edm
[13:50:17] <skunkworks> motion.adaptive-feed IN FLOAT
[13:50:17] <skunkworks> When adaptive feed is enabled with M52 P1, the commanded velocity is multiplied by this value. This effect is multiplicative with the NML-level feed override value and motion.feed-hold.
[13:50:29] <skunkworks> http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/2.5/html/man/man9/motion.9.html
[13:50:46] <skunkworks> all it is is a pin in linuxcnc that you can do with what you please
[13:51:03] <korsi> ok thank you
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[13:57:43] <JT-Shop> cool
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[14:08:07] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: Avoid Papua New Guinea BBQ's
[14:11:26] <Tom_itx> first hand experience?
[14:11:30] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l-BuC48AjhQ
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[14:12:51] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: See video ^^^
[14:14:30] <Tom_itx> they should limit it to convicted criminals
[14:14:54] <Jymmm> Witches and for revenge
[14:15:22] <Err> skunkworks: I'm not certain that you really need to add the ability to back up, exactly - just make the fine-positioning of the servo twitch (although I guess it needs to know what axis on which to twitch)
[14:15:34] <Err> I'm not familiar enough with the guts of linuxcnc, but the concept seems pretty straight-forward
[14:16:31] <Err> korsi: any information on your sink-edm's construction? sounds like an interesting unit, if it can be reproduced inexpensively
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[14:18:38] <Jymmm> bamboo knives; interesting
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[14:26:33] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: So yeah, sorta criminals.... Never ate humans for hunger. only for payback, sorcery, or revenge
[14:27:12] <korsi> Err: i had just a stepper motor moving a brass rod i used as "drilling bit". I used 70v stored to 44uf capasitor. Arduino measured the voltage; if its over 60 it gone forward and if under it gone backwards. there were freely flowing water from a canister flushing the drilling waste away. nothing fancy, just a very crude test setting:p we are planning better water system for the w-edm.
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[14:30:02] <korsi> i dunno about cost but i'd think its under 100€ we had the parts lying around so did'nt have to buy anything. There were no prope attachment for the work piece
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[14:50:33] <Err> korsi: what was your power supply feeding the cap?
[14:51:19] <Err> ...and you used water for cleaning fluid, and not a petroleum-based medium? Did it flash-boil or generate a lot of hydrogen and oxygen?
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[15:02:43] <korsi> Err: i had two adjustable max 35V 2A lab powersupplys. Imo it didn't flash-boil nor generate noticeable amounts of gases. the spark energy was quite low so it went quite peacefully. Currenly we do not have proper cleaning fluid recycling system built and for safety reasons we are planning staying with water based cleaning fluids.
[15:02:49] <archivist> Err, there may be a few designs on the net as a number of model engineers make similar
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[15:27:48] <skunkworks> pcw_home, the 5i25 performed flawlessly - pete is very happy.
[15:28:14] <skunkworks> He is also happy with axis. (he was using the bdi emc1)
[15:28:37] <skunkworks> He machined all day sunday
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[15:45:12] <Err> korsi: cool
[15:45:28] <Err> korsi: how large of a diameter is your 'bit' and how fast does it travel?
[15:45:52] <Err> archivist: yeah, I think I've seen some in the past - I'm just curious to hear first-hand experience
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[15:55:55] <korsi> Err: it was 3mm brass rod. And the work piece was also brass. Travelling speed was very slow imo. 5mm took about 20 min. We didn't have proper flushing cause the bit was a rod; not a pipe. After first few millimeters traveling speen decreased fast and and water became conductive so caps didn't charge propely.
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[15:59:25] <Err> interesting - that's about what my experience is, but it was a one-shot case study
[15:59:36] <Err> we had an EDM machine in a university class I took, and it was incredibly slow
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[16:04:59] <korsi> I am making this project for Finnish school of watchmaking. luckily our workpieces are not too large. However the surface quality should be quite accurate.
[16:11:34] <archivist> watchmaking...tiny :)
[16:14:27] <korsi> yeah:P the s-edm was planned for removing broken threading bits(mostly 1,2mm) from custom watch covers. and w-edm would be nice when customizing movements
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[16:15:58] <archivist> I make the odd watch part when requested
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[16:20:33] <R2E4> I have my 5i25/7i77 up and running and now am starting to plan the bridegport upgrade., and wiring. I am going to use existing servo's. Can I use the existing BEI encoders? I have a Bridgeport r2E4 series 1 boss 9.
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[16:35:49] <korsi> archivist: how small pieces can u make? Customizing a movement belongs to watchmakers studies, so there are not much money in this business here. Poor studens:p
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[16:38:58] <archivist> korsi, a few examples http://gears.archivist.info/
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[16:51:52] <korsi> archivist: i gotta say really nice gears:)
[16:52:08] <archivist> thanks :)
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[16:54:44] <Err> fascinating website
[16:55:56] <Loetmichel> re @ home
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[17:14:50] <IchGuckLive> hi all Around the Blue Globe
[17:15:05] <R2E4> Who says its blue?
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[17:15:48] <IchGuckLive> the green
[17:15:49] <skunkworks> R2E4, what are the specs on the encoders?
[17:15:52] <IchGuckLive> B)
[17:16:19] <R2E4> The resolution is not grand..... Let me look
[17:16:19] <IchGuckLive> R2E4: did the mill arive ?
[17:16:43] <IchGuckLive> encoder have normaly 2500
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[17:16:59] <R2E4> No, it was postponed. ITtis coming on the 16th. i do have the 5i25 and 7i77 installed and working.....:-)
[17:17:21] <IchGuckLive> without the mashine !
[17:17:44] <IchGuckLive> what did you purchase for the servos
[17:18:42] <R2E4> What I menat by working is the cards are installed and linuxcnc has started up....hehe, I am using the bridgeport servo amps existing.....
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[17:20:02] <R2E4> 250 ppr
[17:20:26] <IchGuckLive> thats low
[17:20:53] <R2E4> I see alot of people replacing them.
[17:21:37] <R2E4> The manual says .0005 per step with them.
[17:21:40] <IchGuckLive> what is the tread and is therea gear mounted
[17:22:13] <cradek> 1000 counts for .1" is .0001, just like your old control had
[17:25:00] <skunkworks> per step is odd - wonder if that is from the stepper version
[17:25:04] <cradek> if you intend to continue using inches that is a perfect match
[17:25:40] <cradek> yes I think the stepper version of the BOSS had .001 full steps
[17:25:52] <skunkworks> cradek, did you use the original encoders?
[17:25:59] <cradek> of course, they're perfect
[17:26:17] <skunkworks> heh - what kind of Ferror did you get down to?
[17:26:19] <R2E4> Did you connect them directly into mesa board?
[17:27:01] <cradek> R2E4: surely to a 7i33 or equivalent, it's been a while
[17:27:25] <R2E4> ok, I am connecting them to a 7i77.
[17:27:42] <pcw_home> If they are 5V and quadrature they should just work
[17:27:54] <cradek> yes they are 5v differential quadrature
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[17:28:10] <IchGuckLive> Does every servo stage run without connecting the encoder to it encoder only to mesa ?
[17:28:46] <pcw_home> Brushless drives usually feed the encoders through
[17:29:02] <pcw_home> since they use the encoder for commutation
[17:29:08] <IchGuckLive> that is why i asked
[17:29:26] <skunkworks> those should work great
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[17:30:01] <skunkworks> pcw_home, did you see above - the 5i25 worked great when he hooked it up to his bridgeprot
[17:30:05] <skunkworks> port
[17:30:09] <IchGuckLive> my teststage that made not one turn since 1year of action (maybe it wars broken at the arivvel) got encoder in and out
[17:30:16] <pcw_home> Brush type drives normally have no use for the encoder (Some rare ones use it for velocity feedback)
[17:30:56] <skunkworks> yeh - some amc drives you can use the encoder for velocity feedback. Our amc drives allow for that.
[17:30:57] <pcw_home> Thats good, I added the Rutex pinout to the standard 5i25 pinouts
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[17:31:10] <IchGuckLive> i lost about 300Euros on servo test and no turn at all just a side tick and error
[17:31:11] <skunkworks> pcw_home, great! thanks
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[17:31:53] <cradek> http://timeguy.com/cradek-files//emc/bridgeport-r2e3/imag0143.jpg
[17:31:58] <R2E4> Thanks pcw for your help. I am waiting for the iron to arrive.
[17:32:25] <pcw_home> IchGuckLive: brushless drives can be pretty tricksy
[17:33:08] <pcw_home> R2E4:welcome
[17:33:10] <R2E4> +cradek: Those are the ones I have.
[17:33:15] <cradek> unfortunately can't see the VDC but iirc it was 5
[17:33:22] <cradek> since it says LED
[17:33:31] <IchGuckLive> im not giving up i will see at some time aat least 1 commanded tur of the 300Euro Driver and Motor
[17:33:32] <cradek> old bulb encoders were often 12v, those are good to replace
[17:33:55] <cradek> does yours say 5volt on it somewhere?
[17:34:23] <R2E4> yes, I am trying to find the pics of mine. I do remember it saying 5v though.
[17:35:11] <skunkworks> do those have index?
[17:35:14] <cradek> yes
[17:35:19] <skunkworks> ncie
[17:35:21] <skunkworks> nice
[17:35:38] <cradek> 250-ABZC
[17:35:51] <skunkworks> what is c?
[17:36:08] <cradek> it was a real servo machine, not crap, so it had index...
[17:36:11] <cradek> I don't know :-)
[17:36:15] <skunkworks> heh
[17:36:50] <IchGuckLive> C mewans differantial
[17:37:03] <cradek> aha
[17:37:06] <IchGuckLive> V is line
[17:37:14] <IchGuckLive> in europ
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[17:40:11] <IchGuckLive> what is the max encoder length
[17:40:33] <IchGuckLive> or is there a standard servo cable length limit
[17:41:38] <IchGuckLive> limit is the manufacture cable supply
[17:45:52] <R2E4> They have a shaft right?
[17:46:12] <cradek> probably, who knows. don't remove them and it won't matter :-)
[17:46:27] <R2E4> hehe.....
[17:47:18] <R2E4> looking on the bei website the ABZC is Channels: ABZC=Dual with index and complements.
[17:47:26] <cradek> yay
[17:47:38] <cradek> complement! IchGuckLive was right
[17:47:42] <cradek> I've never heard it called that
[17:48:25] <R2E4> I thought it was wine and cheese the complements.
[17:48:27] <IchGuckLive> cradek: how does the hal_input modul development
[17:49:24] <cradek> IchGuckLive: sorry I don't understand your question
[17:49:35] <R2E4> Thats another checkoff. Don't have to worry about the encoders, wire them right in the board.
[17:49:46] <IchGuckLive> the component that reads trhe USB inputs
[17:49:57] <cradek> R2E4: your whole retrofit is simple wiring
[17:50:36] <cradek> ... and mounting mechanical crap, which is the hard part
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[17:52:01] <cradek> when we did ours, we had another mill to use, but back then the mesa docs didn't have the mechanical drawings yet...
[17:54:18] <R2E4> The mechanical mounting is easy for me. The issue I am going to have is disconnecting the existing controller and connecting the servo amps to the 7i77 card.
[17:54:39] <R2E4> I have yet to find that information.
[17:54:58] <cradek> http://timeguy.com/cradek-files//emc/bridgeport-r2e3/imag0135.jpg
[17:55:37] <cradek> see the screw terminals in the center there? I think they're even marked aren't they? there's one for each amp.
[17:55:55] <R2E4> yeah
[17:56:01] <cradek> what information are you missing?
[17:56:21] <cradek> I bet you're only missing hubris :-)
[17:57:23] <cradek> seb_kuzm1nsky: didn't we modify a resistor on each of the amps to get them to tune? do you remember the symptom we were solving?
[17:57:36] <R2E4> I am trying to find on the schematics where I would connect the wires to the 7i77. the encoders i can figure out just the servo amps.
[17:58:12] <cradek> are you saying the screw terminals in my photo aren't marked? I don't remember and my picture sucks
[17:58:42] <cradek> I do remember we had full wiring diagrams for the old control
[17:59:04] <R2E4> I have the original schematics and about 10 books....hehe
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[17:59:26] <cradek> ok then I think you need to ask much more specific questions
[17:59:42] <R2E4> theoretically would only need the 0-10v connections to the amps and the encoder wires going to the 7i77, the rest I can remove.
[18:00:15] <cradek> yeah, other than that you need enables, maybe fault outputs?
[18:00:23] <cradek> you need to do something smart with your estop chain too
[18:00:28] <pcw_home> you need the drive enables
[18:00:43] <cradek> I believe there are contactors that short out the motor power leads on estop
[18:01:02] <pcw_home> working enables first :-)
[18:02:18] <cradek> limit switches in estop loop, then hubris, then enables
[18:02:44] <cradek> it's very easy to jam the quill on this machine
[18:03:34] <cradek> bbl, lunch
[18:04:09] <R2E4> thanks
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[18:07:53] <R2E4> axis enable control?
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[18:08:25] <R2E4> That looks like a voltage into the amp to enable the drive.
[18:08:56] <R2E4> what provides the control of the enable contact?
[18:12:18] <R2E4> What I have as a working model is the PMI automation bridgeport conversion drawings, but they are using new teco ampswith 7i33 and 37.
[18:13:25] <pcw_home> what is the the drive enable signal on you motor drives?
[18:17:06] <R2E4> I think its 24v. I need the drawings next to me to have this conversation. :-) I am just geting into the details of the conversion, hence all the questions.
[18:17:27] <pcw_home> If the are pull high to enable or grounded to enable and they take 50 mA or less, they can be driven by the 7I77 enable outputs
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[18:19:10] <R2E4> When in the logic scenario are they enabled? And can they be enabled manually?
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[18:19:22] <R2E4> normally
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[18:21:34] <pcw_home> They are enabled by 'motion' in the machine on sequence
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[18:22:12] <pcw_home> and disabled by following errors or machine off
[18:23:09] <pcw_home> there is actually only one logical enable for axis 0 through 4 and one for axis 5 (normally spindle)
[18:23:46] <pcw_home> (on the 7I77) there are individual enable outputs but the first 5 operate from one signal
[18:25:15] <R2E4> That answers my questions. I will check and see what the amps are looking for on the enable line./
[18:25:35] <pcw_home> they are normally driven by motions axis.0.amp-enable-out
[18:25:38] <IchGuckLive> pcw_home: ypu shoudt get a Zip packet with all the nesusary files to the plug and play 7i76/77 to get it work on the livecd
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[18:26:50] <R2E4> going to lunch, thanks.
[18:26:55] <pcw_home> I think pncconf has been updated on 2.5.2 so its is a lot better
[18:27:04] <andypugh> pcw_home: I just realised that matrix-keyboard support on the 7i73 needs a HAL component
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[18:28:16] <pcw_home> I guess is you want N hal pins you need to take the deltas that the 7I73 sends and manipulate a table of hal bits
[18:28:44] <pcw_home> but if you what characters you need a translation table
[18:28:55] <andypugh> Well, the byte stream is unusable otherwise, AFAI can see
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[18:30:32] <pcw_home> a very simple custom comp might be OK for some uses (if keycode = N do Z)
[18:30:44] <andypugh> loadrt matrixkb config="qwerty~~~~~~asdf~~~~~zxcv" maybe? Where a letter is interpreted as a character, but a ~ becomes a HAL bit.
[18:31:10] <pcw_home> HAL is not good with strings
[18:31:26] <andypugh> The puzzle is to find a way to send characters are key-presses to a GUI (which I know somene wants to do)
[18:32:03] <pcw_home> Thats awkward
[18:32:09] <andypugh> He has a matrix keyboard with configurable caps, and wants the left side for G-code entry and the right side as commands....
[18:33:54] <IchGuckLive> the standart mashine keypad goas alphabetic abcd...
[18:35:44] <andypugh> Any solution needs to be configurable. The problem is converting something in HAL to a keypress visible to the GUI.
[18:36:54] <pcw_home> I guess you could have a general HAL --> userland device stream
[18:36:56] <IchGuckLive> python component
[18:37:15] <cpresser> use hal_input?
[18:37:18] <andypugh> Yes, I think that a userland HAL component is part of the solution.
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[18:37:24] <skunkworks__> hal_sendkey() ;)
[18:37:34] <andypugh> cpresser: hal_input goes the other way....
[18:37:37] <skunkworks__> (vba humor)
[18:37:58] <andypugh> skunkworks__: Sadly that isn't funny. It's probably exacty what is needed.
[18:39:43] <pcw_home> The 7I73 panel interface is great for no lag real time control but awkward for keydata
[18:40:57] <cpresser> ah, now i understand what you want to do... sounds tricky.. at lease if you want it to behave like a real keyboard
[18:41:21] <cpresser> you could implement a linux-input-interface in the hm2 driver
[18:41:36] <andypugh> Well, it _probably_ only needs to send keypresses to the MDI window.
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[18:42:09] <pcw_home> HAL keydata path to the GUI?
[18:43:20] <andypugh> Maybe the Axis GUI needs a HAL pin for MDI keypresses?
[18:43:39] <andypugh> Ah, I think that is what you just said?
[18:44:09] <andypugh> Though you might want to be able to type numbers into the touchoff box too. In fact you almost certainly do want to do exactly that.
[18:45:47] <skunkworks__> hmm - cpresser might be on to something - could you emulate a hid in hal?
[18:46:54] <skunkworks__> I suppose similar to what a softkeybaord does.. (No physical hardware)
[18:46:54] <andypugh> Could _I_? ALmost certanly not.
[18:46:59] <skunkworks__> heh
[18:47:11] <andypugh> There is a sendkey daemon...
[18:47:20] <skunkworks__> ooh
[18:47:53] <cpresser> https://www.kernel.org/doc/Documentation/input/input-programming.txt
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[18:52:54] <cpresser> doesnt look to complicated to hook this up in a kernel-module which also does export hal pins
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[18:53:57] <andypugh> No, that does look almost plausible.
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[18:56:06] <cpresser> the 'polling' could be done with a realtime thread (eg addf hal2input servo-thread)
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[18:56:38] <cpresser> however, there might be a problem with x-windows.. i am not so sure how it handles a keyboard plugged in after startup
[18:57:12] <andypugh> Indeed, there may be no need to set up interrupts or anything, simply sending input_report_key might suffice
[18:58:01] <andypugh> I can see no end of fun trying sample code, which will tend to type characters in the middle of quit commands
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[19:01:58] <IchGuckLive> im off By
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[19:12:03] <cradek> ugh, sometimes too much information will make people not want to help you: "help me grind the tops off ICs"
[19:12:23] <skunkworks__> uh... yah
[19:12:46] <andypugh> What's wrong with that?
[19:12:48] <cpresser> tell him to use acid
[19:13:12] <andypugh> I had a job designing machines to pull off the little gold wires.
[19:13:50] <cradek> it's a thing manufacturers do when they are hostile to their customers who may later want to repair the device
[19:14:14] <skunkworks__> is that to 'dumb down' ic's?
[19:14:39] <cradek> yeah I've seen it done to remove their markings
[19:14:53] <cpresser> thats bullshit. you are right, dont help them :)
[19:15:08] <cpresser> i was thinking reverse-engineering first (decapping)
[19:15:25] <andypugh> Amusing typo on this page: http://www.nordson.com/EN-US/DIVISIONS/DAGE/SOLUTIONS/TESTTYPES/Pages/WirePull.aspx
[19:15:31] <cradek> fwiw, he doesn't say
[19:16:29] <cradek> andypugh: ha
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[19:38:07] <andypugh> JT-Shop: Have you seen the guy on the mailng list asking about a BP / Simodrive conversion?
[19:38:16] <JT-Shop> no
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[19:38:37] <andypugh> BP VMC1000 Retrofit
[19:40:42] <JT-Shop> I don't see the mailing list during the day usually
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[20:52:06] <L84Supper> http://compare.ebay.com/like/230759499174?var=lv&ltyp=AllFixedPriceItemTypes&var=sbar <$30 for a complete UV laser and positioner that is submicron accurate
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[20:54:19] <mrsun> how do they get it so precise? :)
[20:54:47] <L84Supper> limited depth of field though
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[20:55:18] <pcw_home> Thats an interesting question (only if the DVD is that precise is it that precise)
[20:55:19] <L84Supper> but blu ray tracks are 200nm
[20:56:30] <L84Supper> 320nm pitch
[20:56:53] <pcw_home> I wonder if you could use some of that high res grating tape as a scale
[20:57:50] <pcw_home> otherwise I would guess you need to spin the disk and there goes your accuracy
[20:57:53] <L84Supper> blu ray pits are only 130nm
[20:58:17] <Jymmm> those are some big lenses
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[21:03:09] <andypugh> I guess that it isn't that precise, it just tracks the grooves.
[21:03:32] <pcw_home> that mechanism has only has maybe a couple of mill accuracy
[21:03:34] <pcw_home> from the step drive without some kind of feedback
[21:03:36] <pcw_home> (to drive the voice coils)
[21:04:07] <L84Supper> it used for writing as well
[21:04:52] <pcw_home> Yes but not on a blank disk
[21:05:17] <L84Supper> it just adds pits
[21:06:21] <pcw_home> Right but all I am saying is all the "accuracy" is in the pre recorded reference marks
[21:06:30] <Jymmm> The minimum "spot size" on which a laser can be focused is limited by diffraction, and depends on the wavelength of the light and the numerical aperture of the lens used to focus it. By decreasing the wavelength, increasing the numerical aperture from 0.60 to 0.85, and making the cover layer thinner to avoid unwanted optical effects, the laser beam can be focused to a smaller spot, which effectively allows more information to be stored in t
[21:06:30] <Jymmm> he same area.[75] For Blu-ray Disc, the spot size is 580 nm.[76] This allows a reduction of the pit size from 400 nm for DVD to 150 nm for Blu-ray Disc, and of the track pitch from 740 nm to 320 nm.
[21:06:46] <L84Supper> it's non contact but it still has to hold itself over the track
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[21:07:33] <pcw_home> yes pretty sure there are 3 dimensions of voice coil positioning
[21:08:18] <t12> insanely
[21:08:24] <t12> thre are ways around the diffraction limit
[21:08:27] <t12> (that are a giant pita)
[21:08:44] <pcw_home> (which track the pre-recorded pits on even a "blank" disk)
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[21:10:29] <Loetmichel> hmmm, i can still remember seeing my beloved abba "first issue" CD destroy a 520 Plextor drive... i dont think that will be much more sturdy in a blueray...
[21:10:30] <Jymmm> Heh BD5 Format.... Uses DVD media with Blu Ray laser
[21:11:10] <Loetmichel> (note to seldf, OLD CDs wit visible cracks at the inner ring: NOT in a drive that can read audio with 52*
[21:11:29] <Loetmichel> *tuuuiiii* *BANG*
[21:11:45] <pcw_home> isn't that around 15K RPM?
[21:11:49] <Loetmichel> one sector of the cd has penetrated the fron bezel of the drive ;-)
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[21:11:57] <Loetmichel> it is ;-)
[21:12:05] <pcw_home> Yow
[21:12:41] <Jymmm> Heh, I got fans that do 15K RPM aka Banshees!
[21:13:50] <Loetmichel> *screaaaam*
[21:13:55] <Loetmichel> the 40mm ones?
[21:14:17] <Jymmm> yeah
[21:14:22] <Jymmm> x 4
[21:14:33] <Loetmichel> we sell servers for the military in the company... with 7 40*40*30mm fans..
[21:14:45] <Loetmichel> and one 80mm ;-)
[21:14:59] <pcw_home> so at 15K rpm. CD periphery is going ~200 MPH
[21:15:11] <Jymmm> There from old 1U servers, four of them
[21:15:23] <Loetmichel> thankfully the servers are sitting in a tank so the drivers have already hearing protection ;-)
[21:16:01] <Loetmichel> the sound of these servers tarting is unreal ;-) nile a staring jet engine ;)
[21:16:08] <Jymmm> I'm still trying to find a use for them, I have about a dozen or so
[21:16:40] <Loetmichel> s/nile/like
[21:17:01] <Jymmm> The only thing I could think of is a pocket sized smelter
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[21:18:50] <L84Supper> I'm trying to see what the lower limit is we can get using the blu ray laser sleds for writing. 500-700nm accuracy hasn't been too difficult
[21:19:02] <Jymmm> 24 CFM, 56dBa
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[21:21:25] <Jymmm> http://www.instructables.com/id/Build-a-15,000-rpm-Tesla-Turbine-using-hard-drive-/
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[21:24:05] <JesusAlos> hi
[21:25:00] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: Micro spud gun?
[21:25:12] <L84Supper> I've pricing lenses, microscopes and multi-megapixel cameras all day, the prices have fallen considerably
[21:25:13] <Loetmichel> ?
[21:25:28] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: usign the 15K fans
[21:25:39] <Loetmichel> hrhr
[21:25:46] <Jymmm> a spindle!!!
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[21:26:08] <Loetmichel> spud gun needs volume AND pressure
[21:26:21] <Jymmm> micro table saw
[21:27:17] <L84Supper> what would you do with it?
[21:27:34] <Jymmm> veneer
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[21:29:46] <Jymmm> L84Supper: saw mill for mice?
[21:30:11] <Jymmm> that would be like a 3ft blade for hu-mons
[21:30:32] <Loetmichel> Jymmm: IIRC the 40mm fans WE have have about 3W
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[21:30:57] <Loetmichel> should be sufficient to saw leaves, nothing more ;-)
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[21:31:18] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: For full speed, 1W for 5K RPM
[21:32:07] <L84Supper> what if you had a 100um dia table saw and the blade was 1um thick, what would you cut with it?
[21:32:37] <Loetmichel> more realistic soggestion: get some Stryrofoam, an old bicycle tube, 6 of this fans and a 3s lipo battery and build a hovercraft
[21:32:45] <Jymmm> cheese, remember it's a saw mill for mice!
[21:33:08] <L84Supper> for those in the USA that's 0.004" and 0.00004"
[21:33:24] <L84Supper> woops too many zeros
[21:33:32] <L84Supper> 0.0004" thick
[21:34:13] <Jymmm> I guess a hovercraft, but not water proof
[21:34:15] <andypugh> Confusing error message: "hm2/hm2_7i43.0: board has FPGA '3s200tq144', but the firmware in hm2/7i43/SVST4_4B.BIT is for FPGA '3s400tq144'". What that really means, I think, is that the box with the 7i43 in it isn't powered up....
[21:35:02] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: pocket air hockey table
[21:35:04] <andypugh> L84Supper: For making very short optical fibres.
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[21:35:33] <pcw_home> Yes the pre-config intelligence of a 7I43 is pretty low so all it really has is a size bit
[21:36:14] <Jymmm> andypugh: Nah, it chip the fiber. wouldn't get a clean end.
[21:36:56] <andypugh> I should make the error message append "or perhaps the card is unpowered"
[21:37:22] <Jymmm> andypugh: "Got Power?"
[21:37:55] <andypugh> Annoyingly I am ssh-ing to the garage. I can WoL the PC, but not the drive box.
[21:38:05] <Tom_itx> just have a default 'ask andy' error message
[21:38:22] <andypugh> Back in a bit.
[21:38:38] <Jymmm> Better yet, open an IM dialog to andy
[21:39:11] <Jymmm> andypugh: Sorry man, you'll have to move to India now.
[21:39:47] <Jymmm> All emc tech support has been outsourced
[21:40:17] <Jymmm> andypugh: Or S.America, your choice.
[21:41:32] <L84Supper> a few years some grad students in Inida used coreboot as their thesis, changed all the heads to their names and got their degrees, any stories like this with EMC?
[21:41:43] <L84Supper> heads/header files
[21:41:57] <L84Supper> and headers
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[22:07:53] <r00t4rd3d> http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=f03_1362423862
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[22:09:28] <DJ9DJ> gn8
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[22:18:18] <t12> L84supper: whats the goil
[22:18:22] <t12> with all the optics stuff
[22:19:02] <L84Supper> t12: submicron fabrication, 3D printing
[22:19:36] <andypugh> r00t4rd3d: YOu can tell the ones who do a bit of Alpine too, as they quietly snowplough round the bodies.
[22:19:38] <t12> like cnc fab
[22:19:45] <t12> or any method
[22:20:04] <L84Supper> SLA and SLS
[22:20:52] <t12> got a target resolution
[22:20:57] <t12> or just best as possible or?
[22:21:13] <t12> i've been learning about PDMS related fab
[22:21:27] <t12> we have a lab here that can 3d print cells into larger structures heh
[22:22:03] <L84Supper> t12: smaller the better, but mainly now 700nm or so but at high speeds
[22:22:33] <L84Supper> tissue engineering as well, printing scaffolds for cells
[22:23:18] <t12> http://www.bioforcenano.com/index.php?id=295
[22:23:19] <L84Supper> but we need to print micro-nozzles to build printheads
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[22:25:13] <L84Supper> also MEMS size devices out or multiple materials
[22:25:20] <L84Supper> or/of
[22:25:40] <t12> hum
[22:26:34] <L84Supper> 3dprintingindustry.com/2013/02/13/its-a-small-world-after-all-nanoscribes-3d-printed-nano-universe/ but much faster
[22:27:38] <t12> hum url not working
[22:27:53] <t12> subtractive? additive?
[22:27:57] <t12> both/either?
[22:28:19] <L84Supper> mostly additive
[22:28:44] <t12> can you do additive with ion-beam
[22:28:46] <L84Supper> http://www.nanoscribe.de/en/applications/2.5d-free-form-surfaces
[22:28:49] <L84Supper> yes
[22:28:52] <t12> i guess depends on the material
[22:29:09] <L84Supper> mostly working with photopolymers right now
[22:29:44] <L84Supper> and composites that are cured with ~400nm
[22:30:00] <L84Supper> since bluray made the parts so inexpensive
[22:31:56] <L84Supper> http://www.nanoscribe.de/en/applications/3d-micro-rapid-prototyping we will be about 100x faster
[22:32:10] <L84Supper> and lower res
[22:33:03] <t12> i wonder if superresolution imaging can be done kinda
[22:33:04] <t12> backwards
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[22:33:23] <L84Supper> reverse microscope
[22:33:28] <t12> i guess making non-interferance wavefronts might be too hard
[22:33:41] <t12> or interferance ones with enough fidelity
[22:34:08] <L84Supper> lots of this got worked out over the years for semiconductor lithography but they focused on silicon
[22:35:41] <L84Supper> there is no best tech, so it's more combining different tech into one machine
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[22:36:20] <AR_> http://www.ebay.com/itm/181090544664
[22:36:24] <AR_> bid up please
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[22:39:29] <L84Supper> i was thinking about linear positioners that use piezo's for precise short movements , but over a long distance of 500mm
[22:40:06] <t12> thats kinda rough isnt it
[22:40:12] <L84Supper> nobody makes things like that
[22:40:21] <t12> on our em's the last nm's of motion
[22:40:24] <t12> are always done by moving the beams around
[22:40:33] <t12> cause you cant position the stage back and forth to anything that reliably
[22:40:36] <t12> and thats over like 2 sq mm
[22:40:40] <t12> granted its a mechanical stage
[22:40:52] <t12> but i think at that scale even piezos have trouble
[22:40:57] <L84Supper> yes, that the issue,
[22:41:14] <L84Supper> it needs to be moved over a larger area
[22:41:39] <t12> and over 500mm you'll start to have lots of thermal problems?
[22:41:48] <t12> i guess for 500-1000nm its not so bad
[22:42:22] <L84Supper> it can be a problem if the temp fluctuates rapidly
[22:42:44] <L84Supper> but if it's held within 1 deg C not so much
[22:43:31] <t12> whats the print time like on those nanoscribe thigners
[22:43:46] <L84Supper> glacial
[22:44:07] <L84Supper> single laser
[22:46:43] <t12> phosphor everything and develop with electron beam heh
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[22:49:24] <L84Supper> 125µm x 81µm x 26.8µm in just under 1min .2um features
[22:52:59] <L84Supper> sorry .6um features, it's only down to 300nm for 2d
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[23:01:50] <JT-Shop> I need some clever way to rotate the beam 90 degrees with about 8" of stroke max http://imagebin.org/248981
[23:02:02] <JT-Shop> like from a bottle jack
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[23:02:41] <t12> whats your plan to buy 2 oom?
[23:02:47] <t12> if thats not a secret
[23:05:17] <L84Supper> i like the leaf springs
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[23:07:28] <L84Supper> t12: http://www.3ders.org/articles/20120914-nanoengineers-can-print-3d-microstructures-out-of-hydrogels-in-mere-seconds.html
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[23:10:48] <t12> ahh
[23:11:00] <t12> are you gonna stick with non-laser source?
[23:11:39] <L84Supper> we use more than one type of tech
[23:11:50] <andypugh> JT-Shop: You need suction jack?
[23:12:01] <L84Supper> SAL, SLA, FDM inkjet all in one
[23:12:12] <L84Supper> SLA
[23:12:24] <L84Supper> SLS
[23:13:22] <L84Supper> t12: many devices have multiple materials, and there no best tech for them all
[23:13:33] <AR_> you FDM with inkjet?
[23:13:47] <L84Supper> I missed a comma there
[23:14:25] <L84Supper> FDM and jet, not just inkjet, inkjet has a very narrow range of fluid characteristics
[23:14:35] <JT-Shop> suction jack?
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[23:15:04] <andypugh> JT-Shop: Yeah, one that pulls rather than pushes :-)
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[23:15:16] <L84Supper> 20 mPas is too low for many fluids and that's where inkjet tops out
[23:15:27] <JT-Shop> andypugh: how would that help?
[23:15:38] <andypugh> Heck, they don't even exist!
[23:17:45] <andypugh> I guess you need some form of rising-rate linkage about where that big plank is, and a bottle jack.
[23:18:27] <AR_> a bottle of jack
[23:18:50] <JT-Shop> let me try and mock that up Andy
[23:19:35] <Jymmm> andypugh: Yeah, JT-Shop can mock up stuff real good!
[23:20:33] <ReadError> hows the mill AR_ ?
[23:20:39] <AR_> well
[23:20:49] <AR_> i was drawing some pictures
[23:21:00] <AR_> then engraving the drawing in a piece of wood
[23:21:04] <Jymmm> andypugh: See Also: Cannon
[23:21:18] <AR_> and i accidentally shorted the wires to the potentiometer on my spindle speed control
[23:21:29] <AR_> and blew a breaker/fried the controller
[23:21:37] <Jymmm> how?
[23:21:41] <AR_> so now im waiting on new parts to fix it
[23:21:42] <andypugh> AR_: KBIC drive?
[23:21:51] <AR_> no, treadmill one
[23:21:56] <AR_> so not very different
[23:21:59] <AR_> SCR driven
[23:22:02] <AR_> 90V motor
[23:22:08] <Jymmm> how you short the pot?
[23:22:15] <andypugh> The KBIC ones float the pot at +100V
[23:22:28] <AR_> well, i put a new one on, and didnt cover the terminals
[23:22:35] <AR_> and it touched my machine base
[23:22:40] <AR_> made a nice smoke ring
[23:22:50] <AR_> this one i measured only at 5v
[23:22:59] <Jymmm> too deep for the enclosure?
[23:23:08] <AR_> not enclosed yet :P
[23:23:22] <Jymmm> oh so just laying on the bench?
[23:23:25] <AR_> yeah
[23:23:32] <AR_> hey, it worked
[23:23:35] <AR_> till it touched metal
[23:23:59] <AR_> i cant believe they dont have protection on it
[23:24:00] <Jymmm> So does a nuclear bomb. Just because you can, doesn't mean you should!
[23:24:10] <AR_> i think this model was old and outdated, but still
[23:24:34] <Jymmm> AR_: They did, it was enclosed away from the operator =)
[23:24:58] <AR_> the fact that the potentiometer (that normally goes up to the control panel on treadmill) can draw enough current to throw a house breaker
[23:25:04] <AR_> is pretty bad design IMO
[23:25:43] <Jymmm> But it didn't just blow out the pot, did it?
[23:25:55] <AR_> no it blew more on the board
[23:26:03] <Jymmm> 100V @ 10mA is nothing.
[23:26:04] <AR_> nothing burned, but it doesnt work when i replaced the pot
[23:26:32] <AR_> i only measured the pot output control voltage at 5v
[23:26:57] <Jymmm> ah
[23:27:12] <AR_> it must just draw directly from the rectifier from mains though
[23:27:21] <AR_> because it threw the house breaker
[23:27:24] <Jymmm> well, maybe that was isolated till it was shorted to whatever on your bench
[23:27:25] <AR_> so i dunno
[23:28:06] <AR_> i had the board mounted and isolated from anything metal, so the only thing that shorted was the potentiometer
[23:28:27] <Jymmm> Betch ya wont been doing that again anytime soon =)
[23:28:40] <AR_> not till i fix it at least
[23:28:45] <Jymmm> rotf
[23:29:04] <Jymmm> You are suppose to LEARN from these things, not lather rinse, repeat.
[23:29:21] <Jymmm> In other words... CLEAN YOUR SHIT UP!
[23:29:27] <Jymmm> =)
[23:29:45] <AR_> lol
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[23:29:55] <AR_> i'm an electrical engineer too
[23:30:03] <AR_> this is kindof embarassing
[23:30:14] <Jymmm> You cheated on the final didn't ya?
[23:30:26] <AR_> lolol
[23:30:52] <AR_> i'm even too lazy to just fix the board
[23:31:03] <AR_> i ordered some components, but i think the SCRs are fried
[23:31:04] <JT-Shop> andypugh: something like this? http://imagebin.org/248986
[23:31:16] <AR_> pulled one off to test and pulled a trace off the board accidentally
[23:31:29] <AR_> so i just bought a new controller on ebay for $25
[23:31:51] <Jymmm> I blew up a 10HP motor once. I was wiring it up to 220 3ph and connected wire #6. Well, it was actually wire #8 that had part of the label rubbed off.
[23:32:08] <AR_> loool
[23:32:27] <Jymmm> Not really my fault, but I know now to not trust wire labels.
[23:32:57] <Jymmm> Dayton motor btw
[23:33:28] <L84Supper> ...3, 4, 5, 6, 6, 7, 9 ... should have been a sign :)
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[23:33:53] <Jymmm> L84Supper: Had I looked at / needed ALL the wires.
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[23:34:10] <Jymmm> the rest were for 440
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[23:44:50] <L84Supper> http://www.hirox-usa.com/products/mount_lens/mx_series/mx-10c.html 3500x magnification at a 10mm working distance
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[23:47:03] <Tom_itx> JT-Shop, how much force is on that pivot link?
[23:47:42] <Tom_itx> just start stripping parts off your back hoe
[23:47:43] <AR_> that is a beautiful tube containing very nice lenses, L84Supper
[23:48:30] <L84Supper> and a fraction of the cost of the Keyence
[23:48:59] <JT-Shop> well the beam weighs in at about 250 and the cylinder is 70 so 350 all up with the wedge
[23:49:38] <Tom_itx> figure the lever length to be straight when open
[23:50:45] <Tom_itx> but you're pushing it close to the pivot so the force will be more won't it?
[23:51:24] <Tom_itx> and the cylinder is on the far end of the beam
[23:52:55] <JT-Shop> yep the cylinder is on the far end from the pivot
[23:53:15] <AR_> cat the cylinder is on the far end it is whatever
[23:58:27] <andypugh> Why is youtube showong me log splitters and cannon ball moulds? A case of mistaken identity?
[23:59:05] <AR_> my identity
[23:59:11] <andypugh> JT-Shop: http://youtu.be/9QXMfdBFGdo
[23:59:19] <Tom_itx> they must know JT
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